Latest / Sasquatch & Sourdough / Ep. 27 | Roasting Coffee, Survival in the Wilderness, and Facing the Unseen | Sasquatch & Sourdough

Transcript

Ep. 27 | Roasting Coffee, Survival in the Wilderness, and Facing the Unseen | Sasquatch & Sourdough · Sasquatch & Sourdough

0:04
SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, welcome back.
0:05
SPEAKER_01: It's Christina.
0:06
SPEAKER_01: I am so excited that you are tuning in today.
0:09
SPEAKER_01: I just wanted to take a minute and say thank you so much for listening to the podcast.
0:14
SPEAKER_01: We've grown tremendously this past year, and it's all thanks to you guys as an audience.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: That being said, I wanted to just remark and remind you guys that I am not editing any of these stories for content.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: It's really important to the integrity of the show that each storyteller that comes on to share their experience gets a chance to do so without me editing for opinions or things like that.
0:41
SPEAKER_01: So I think it's just only fair that people get to tell their stories authentically.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: If you have a story to share, you can go to our website at Sasswatch and Sourdough.com.
0:54
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for tuning in and let's get into the show! You might know him possibly from Kevlar Joe Coffee, but hopefully you know him because he runs the amazing uh coffee meme page coffee core.
1:42
SPEAKER_01: Nick, welcome.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: I'm very excited to be here.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: Uh you've been very patient and flexible with my schedule, so I really appreciate it.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, you've been trying to get me on for six months.
1:55
SPEAKER_01: That's fine.
1:56
unknown: Yeah.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: It's all it's all it's all God's timing.
1:59
SPEAKER_01: Like the story, the story will be unfolding as it needs to be unfolding.
2:03
SPEAKER_01: But you've been really busy um because you just had a baby and you've got a lot of stuff going on.
2:09
SPEAKER_01: So I think that's you're allowed.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say, yeah, baby number six.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, fostering, so it definitely keeps us busy.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: Like I said earlier, I'm just trying to stay above water right now.
2:23
SPEAKER_01: I don't know how you do it.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's it's the coffee.
2:26
SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's the coffee.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: It's 7 40 at in the at night.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: So oh my gosh, you are insane.
2:36
SPEAKER_01: It is, because it's yeah, nighttime.
2:38
SPEAKER_01: I would not sleep.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: You are this is crazy.
2:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, so I found you from your meme page because it's everything that I love.
2:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's coffee and Jesus and metal, pretty much.
2:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, so all three of those amazing things.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: It's like so niche, I love it.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, so whenever I decided to start a coffee business, um I was trying to figure out what to do, and everyone always says, just do what you love.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: And I thought, like, I love coffee, so I guess I'll just start roasting coffee.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: So I actually went on to Amazon and this is when I was quarantined at one point, and I ordered a uh simple coffee roaster.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: It's it's it looks like one of those stir crazy popcorn poppers, like it stirs the beans and just roasts them.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: And I ordered a how-to book, and I just learned in the kitchen.
3:25
SPEAKER_00: Um and before that, I use it, I learned how to roast coffee on a cast iron skillet, um, but I didn't know that it smoked really bad.
3:33
SPEAKER_00: Um the whole house got really smoky, and so my wife was not a fan of that.
3:37
SPEAKER_00: Um and so I transitioned to get and stir a roaster after that.
3:41
SPEAKER_00: But uh I get so distracted and I go down so many different rabbit holes, so forgive me.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, that's fine.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, as time went on, and I'm currently down in a hiatus with the business, um, I use it for memes.
3:57
SPEAKER_00: Um that the Instagram page, I use it for memes, I use it for talking, you know, talk to my friends and follow awesome podcasts like your own.
4:04
SPEAKER_00: Um and I just didn't want to give up on it, but I just started sharing memes randomly for fun.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then my followers went from like 700 to 3,000, which really stunk because I I could have used those followers when I had a business um that was active.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: But um yeah, I just started I I like metal um and Jesus and Lord of the Rings.
4:26
SPEAKER_00: Um I just kind of started posting whatever I wanted um instead of feeling that I had to kind of post to like a niche crowd necessarily at the time.
4:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:33
SPEAKER_00: Um and so I just I just post coffee things with metal feels, so that's that's what I do.
4:39
SPEAKER_01: It's my favorite.
4:40
SPEAKER_00: And I appreciate it.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: This is so this is something that's really I don't know.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: For some reason, I thought it was just me that had experienced this phenomenon.
4:49
SPEAKER_01: Because you know, we talk about like weird phenomenon over here on this pod.
4:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, but the whole like uh three coffees, no food, no lunch thing is really getting traction.
5:03
SPEAKER_01: And I find that the most relatable thing ever because usually, like, I mean, I most people I think probably know, like listeners, that I'm production assistant at church.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: So Sunday morning like call time is insane.
5:16
SPEAKER_01: So I am like drinking a ton of coffee and not eating, you know, until after church, and that hits like it totally is insane how relatable that feeling is where you're just like, guys, hey, what?
5:31
SPEAKER_01: Huh?
5:32
SPEAKER_01: No, all over the place.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: It just why, as reasonable adults, we need to have a good routine so we don't end up doing stuff like that.
5:39
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
5:40
SPEAKER_00: But it still happens.
5:41
SPEAKER_01: I feel like sometimes people are like, what is the matter with you?
5:44
SPEAKER_01: Like, are you not on your meds?
5:46
SPEAKER_00: Like, yep, I get that.
5:47
SPEAKER_00: That's my wife.
5:48
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: I know.
5:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, but no, I think it's funny because I I mean I obviously love coffee too, but like um, I never really considered doing anything like on my own, like roasting it or anything like that.
6:02
SPEAKER_01: So definitely high praise to you because you like just started a whole adventure, and I love that.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it it was awesome because now I have all the equipment, as you can see behind me, like coffee grinder, big roasters.
6:15
SPEAKER_00: Um but it's a hobby now, and I I can't I can't go back to uh buying store caught store-bought coffee, it just doesn't taste the same.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna do some coffee nerd talk real quick.
6:27
SPEAKER_00: When you roast your own coffee, um it's super fresh because you get it green.
6:32
SPEAKER_00: The beans are are it they smell like grass, like they're super, super fresh.
6:37
SPEAKER_00: And so when you roast it, so here's an interesting tid of it.
6:41
SPEAKER_00: So when you roast the coffee, so it's burning, um, you're burning it as it as it rotates, um, it releases uh oil.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: There's two layers of oil on the inside, so it releases different flavoring, but it also releases CO2.
6:55
SPEAKER_00: So once you're done roasting the coffee, you have to let it sit for you know, different people do different days.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: Like if you see a company that says, hey, we roast, we, we, we um roast and grind the same day and ship it out, I don't that's not good because the longer the CO2 leaks out of the beans, um, basically it's kind of like um like aging alcohol or something like that.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: Like you're you're you're letting it sit and like you know, it it ages and gets better or whatever.
7:21
SPEAKER_00: Um the longer you let it degas your coffee beans, the better it tastes.
7:25
SPEAKER_00: It brings out all the flavors and the um the the roast profile.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: Um it just it it's bolder.
7:32
SPEAKER_00: Um so I I would let my beans sit for like seven days.
7:35
SPEAKER_00: Um wow something called like the Malaysian method, which is like 39 days of just letting it degas before you grind it.
7:42
SPEAKER_00: Because if you grind it too soon, it stops the um uh degassing process, which stops the um uh the flavoring, you know?
7:51
SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: So that's why uh I don't even know why I doubt this, but anyways.
7:55
SPEAKER_00: Um it's fascinating.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: I can't um I can't drink store-bought coffee because typically like Folgers they brag about well, okay.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, not to throw out names, but like, you know, big brands, they they ro they roast and grind the same day.
8:09
SPEAKER_00: Um and that's why it tastes like dirt walk.
8:12
SPEAKER_01: Um I grew up on Folgers in the 80s, like and I'm sorry, but I yeah, I totally understand what you're saying.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: Because like we like I grew up with like me, like this is that like that's your childhood or something.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: Freeze-dried Folgers crystals, like ew.
8:28
SPEAKER_01: When you think about it now, I'm no, I get it.
8:30
SPEAKER_01: Like, I I love good coffee.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: Like my son, my 10-year-old, also apparently loves good coffee.
8:36
SPEAKER_01: Like, he has he has decaf.
8:39
SPEAKER_01: I'm not a terrible mother, but you know, it's like okay, yeah.
8:44
SPEAKER_01: Let the child have the decaf.
8:45
SPEAKER_00: All my children drink coffee with me, so I'll give them like a little bit of coffee, you know, a little bit, and I'll put tons of milk in it, but it's definitely caffeinated.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: Um so we definitely have coffee time.
8:57
SPEAKER_00: But uh I was going to say, um, when you buy store-bought coffee, it's typically on that shelf for three to twelve.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: No, it's sitting in a warehouse for three to twelve months before it's on that shelf.
9:09
SPEAKER_00: That's crazy.
9:10
SPEAKER_00: So unless you get from like a local roaster or something, like your coffee's gonna be stale, it might be moldy.
9:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, so when you buy from a local coffee roaster, it's it's super fresh.
9:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's not gonna be stale, it's not gonna be moldy, it's just gonna taste good.
9:23
SPEAKER_00: So, anyway, and we have one here.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: No, thank you, because that's important to me and hopefully to all of my listeners.
9:31
SPEAKER_01: I want to hear what everybody thinks about coffee because I never would have thought of that.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: You know, you think, um, you know, I guess you kind of think like, okay, well, I'm safe getting this brand because there's certain brands.
9:41
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I get my coffee at Walmart because sometimes I'm just like, I can't spend 10, 12, 15, 30 dollars on a bag of coffee.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm not putting down anybody who I get it.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: Like, you can't spend$30 on a pound of coffee or something like that because it's you know, single origin, ethical, and you know, right in someone's backyard.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: I I get that.
10:01
SPEAKER_00: I definitely get it.
10:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:03
SPEAKER_01: But I um I definitely um I never thought about that because you know, we have a local, like we have like a Zeke's coffee here, and that's they do it all in-house and it's awesome.
10:14
SPEAKER_01: But it's still also kind of one of those things where it's like, all right, well, I'm just lazy and I'm at Walmart, and here's Black Rifle, tactical squatch.
10:23
SPEAKER_01: That's what I think.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I do like their bags, but that's really good.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, well, before we move on, I do have a question for you.
10:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, because everyone gets a weird question.
10:33
SPEAKER_01: What do you think about pumpkin spice lattes and the whole jazz about pumpkin spice?
10:41
SPEAKER_01: Are you fan?
10:42
SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm a very I'm very basic, and yes, I do drink um seasonally, I will drink um pumpkin flavored coffee.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
10:52
SPEAKER_00: Typically avoid the lattes because I'm trying to keep the dairy out of me because it doesn't agree with my stomach very well.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no.
10:58
SPEAKER_00: But I will.
10:59
SPEAKER_00: I actually I actually perfected a few different uh pumpkin spice flavored coffees and they sold really good.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: Um during the fall season, but um I enjoy it.
11:07
SPEAKER_00: I will drink it, so okay, good.
11:10
SPEAKER_01: Well, welcome because I love pumpkin spice.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's nostalgia or or it's a season or what, but I do, so yeah.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: I tend to like pour cinnamon all over my coffee too, so so like when I because I do pour over and everyone makes fun of me.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: I'm the only coffee drinker.
11:26
SPEAKER_01: Well, now my son is, but my husband doesn't drink coffee.
11:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, so when like I have people come and see like my mom, huh?
11:33
SPEAKER_00: It's never too late for him.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: We can pray for him.
11:35
SPEAKER_00: I know.
11:36
SPEAKER_01: He doesn't just doesn't I don't I don't think he likes the effect.
11:39
SPEAKER_01: He doesn't like feeling.
11:40
SPEAKER_01: He's very, very like even keeled.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: Is he sensitive to like all the caffeine?
11:45
SPEAKER_01: I I don't know.
11:46
SPEAKER_01: He because he drinks green tea, and I'm like, dude, green tea hits a different like yeah, get it get him in here.
11:51
SPEAKER_00: I need to ask him some questions.
11:53
SPEAKER_00: No, I um it's funny because um I drink really I drink dark roast typically and that has less caffeine because the darker it is, the longer it's cooked.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: So more caffeine and more vitamins and minerals that are in coffee are are burnt away.
12:06
SPEAKER_00: Um so that's why tea usually has a stronger caffeine hit.
12:09
SPEAKER_00: Um because it has you're you're not cooking it the way you are coffee.
12:13
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I'll drink tea and I and I scare I terrify myself, like the effect.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: I'm just like, oh my gosh.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: I'm I have ADHD right now.
12:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I kid you not.
12:23
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I'll get more of a caffeine hit, definitely from tea than coffee.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:28
SPEAKER_01: Um well good.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: I'm glad that you like pumpkin spice, and I can't wait for that um to come back because I just pour like like I said, just like over the pour over and stuff like that.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: So while my was saying, like my mom will come and stay, and she's like, Do you have like normal, like where's your Keurig?
12:43
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, oh no.
12:45
SPEAKER_01: Wait, so Keurigs.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: Pour over at home?
12:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I have like a little it's and it's really I have it really kind of it's so lazy and ridiculous.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: It's like the top of the pour over thing.
12:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I just put it on a cup, I put it over a cup, and then I just put the coffee and then I it's perfect, yeah.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: Because my container thing broke, like it fell on.
13:07
SPEAKER_01: We have like a really crazy like granite floor, and so it shattered on the floor one time, and I was like, I'm not doing this again.
13:13
SPEAKER_01: So now I have like a mug, and that's that's it.
13:16
SPEAKER_01: So my mom's always like it takes 30 minutes for you to make a cup of coffee, and I'm like, it's so wow, it's worth it.
13:22
SPEAKER_01: It's worth it.
13:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like doing the French press, absolutely.
13:25
SPEAKER_01: I loved the French press, yeah.
13:27
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, I um so I have one of the uh pourover glasses things that you have.
13:33
SPEAKER_00: Um I I never do it because I'm lazy.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I used to, like, whenever I went to Starbucks in the past, um, I would always ask for a pour over.
13:42
SPEAKER_00: And they I don't know where like where to like they just don't do it anymore.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: They always I don't know if you ever go to Starbucks and ask for pour-over, but that used to be an option.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: Really?
13:51
SPEAKER_00: They only wanted dark roast.
13:53
SPEAKER_00: Um and they would offer, like, well, what about a clover or an Americana?
13:57
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, no, that's that's not a pour over.
14:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, and now I just sound really snobby to anyone who's not like a coffee person.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: But um I just like that you're hating on Starbucks, that's fine.
14:09
SPEAKER_01: I said I like that you're hating on Starbucks, that's fine.
14:12
SPEAKER_00: Well, it gets really bad though, because when they do know how to do it, they you can hear them groan like over like the intercom.
14:18
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, can I get a pour-over?
14:19
SPEAKER_00: And they're like, uh yes, fine.
14:22
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, geez, that's your job.
14:24
SPEAKER_01: It's your it's this is your whole job, Starbucks.
14:27
SPEAKER_01: You are a coffee business.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
14:30
SPEAKER_00: Well, um, I will admit though that when it comes to like a generic, like, if I want a good dark roast coffee, um, Starbucks does a really good job with their Sumatra.
14:39
SPEAKER_00: Um and their Italian roast.
14:41
SPEAKER_01: So Okay, good to know.
14:45
SPEAKER_01: I um, yeah, I just love I love coffee.
14:48
SPEAKER_01: So any anyone that's not following Coffee Core on Instagram, stop right now and go find and do it.
14:55
SPEAKER_01: Do it now because I will just keep sharing all of your content because I love it.
14:59
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it, thank you.
15:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:01
SPEAKER_01: And it's it's funny because like I think like you had a good you had a really good instinct um to just kind of stick with the authenticity because I find that like I mean I didn't know exactly how I was gonna do things, you know.
15:13
SPEAKER_01: It it's it's challenging to create content and to get into that.
15:17
SPEAKER_01: You definitely get into this like habit of feeling like you have to constantly produce, but then you burn out and your content is not relatable.
15:25
SPEAKER_01: So it's like you can't you can't overtry.
15:27
SPEAKER_01: You just kind of have to do what feels right, and then just pep the people will find you.
15:32
SPEAKER_01: Like that's just kind of the way the algorithm works and all that stuff.
15:36
SPEAKER_00: Somebody had asked me the other day, like, um, like, how do I feel about trying to get followers or how do I feel about um making the content just right?
15:44
SPEAKER_00: And that's what I told them was I just I just be me and I share what I like, and that's just what that's what makes it fun, so it's not stressful.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: I don't feel like I have um necessarily and you know, granted, like I don't feel like I'm trying to appease customers, you know, like with a product what what Nick likes.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: So it just it's easier that way.
16:01
SPEAKER_00: And if people like it, they like it, you know.
16:03
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
16:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:04
SPEAKER_01: Well, I hope you start um producing coffee soon.
16:07
SPEAKER_01: I know that you're it's all God's timing, but yeah, I I can't wait for that because then then you kind of already have like your your following, you know what I mean?
16:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: Oh no, now would be a great time to go back into business.
16:19
SPEAKER_00: Uh since my following tripled.
16:21
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, for sure.
16:23
SPEAKER_01: And and people, I mean, people always want coffee.
16:27
SPEAKER_01: So um, but so you're uh so you're in St.
16:31
SPEAKER_01: Louis, right?
16:32
SPEAKER_01: Um is that where you are now?
16:34
SPEAKER_00: I live in um Peavely, Missouri, so it's like 45 minutes south of St.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: Louis, but it's so much easier just to talk about, just say St.
16:40
SPEAKER_00: Louis.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: So county, really.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: So gotcha, gotcha.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: So um I think you we were talking about like you were listening to the Alex Shea um in our Missouri episode.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: Is that is she near was that storytelling kind of close to where you are or so I live on the exact opposite of the state.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: So St.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: Louis is on the east side of the state, and it's right on the Mississippi bordering Illinois.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: And Kansas City, the first one, like she was saying, um, not the Kansas City, Kansas City, but Kansas City, Missouri, is on so confusing.
17:14
SPEAKER_00: I know it's on the river on the west side of the state, so complete opposite ends.
17:17
SPEAKER_00: But I used to live in Kansas City.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I knew just about every area she was talking about.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: So that made that episode so much more enjoyable because I knew when she was talking about like the West Downs, you know, that whole area that got flooded and everything, like they have some awesome, like they they turn all the old buildings into giant antique shop shops, they turn them into haunted houses during um uh Halloween, and they do tons of cool stuff down there.
17:40
SPEAKER_00: So it a really cool place to visit.
17:43
SPEAKER_01: Oh wow, yeah, yeah, that was a crazy episode.
17:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, I haven't really had a chance to like reconnect with her, but I I do know that she was she was water baptized and she's been connected with church, so I'm kind of just praying that that's like kind of where her path has gone, um, which is totally cool, you know.
18:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's funny because I'm oh I'm so bad with geography.
18:04
SPEAKER_01: Like, still I like I had to look at a map and be like, okay, where is this person and where is that?
18:09
SPEAKER_01: And Kansas City is confusing.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: Like, just name something different.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because they um Kansas City uh borders Kansas.
18:19
SPEAKER_00: Well, Kans City, Missouri borders Kansas City, Kansas, and they're right next to each other.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:23
SPEAKER_00: So one second you're in Kansas City, Missouri, and the next one you're in Kansas City, Kansas.
18:27
SPEAKER_00: So it is very confusing.
18:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
18:30
SPEAKER_01: But so I guess you so you probably hadn't heard of any of the same stuff like that she was talking about, but you knew like where she was.
18:37
SPEAKER_00: Not necessarily, but she did talk about a lot of places that I knew.
18:40
SPEAKER_00: Like um Jesse Jesse James and his hometown was right there, and um, all that stuff.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: It's pretty cool.
18:46
SPEAKER_00: And there's there's a couple Civil War battlefields up there too, which are pretty fun to go visit.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, but she man, I wish I'd listened to that episode more recently because she did mention a couple things I wanted to comment on that I cannot remember, unfortunately.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
18:59
SPEAKER_01: Um I'm trying to think back too.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: Um maybe it'll come to us because I know she she covered a lot of stuff.
19:06
SPEAKER_01: Um definitely I know that she I know that it was a lot of like talking about like urban exploring and stuff like that.
19:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: Um I don't know if you're into that sort of whole part of I guess research or whatever, but not necessarily.
19:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm kind of I kind of shy away from it.
19:23
SPEAKER_01: Um I don't I don't know really know why.
19:26
SPEAKER_01: I think sometimes I'm just like I don't know, I don't know, I don't know why I should be like messing around with this stuff.
19:31
SPEAKER_01: Like I kind of stay away from like I had some really bad experiences like in Gettysburg, just being stupid and being like, hello spirits of the dead, come.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: I am a medium, I will help you.
19:45
SPEAKER_01: Like this is before Jesus, obviously.
19:47
SPEAKER_00: Um I I avoid that kind of stuff too.
19:50
SPEAKER_00: I'm not you know certain things that I definitely uh don't think should be messed with.
19:56
SPEAKER_00: Um and that's just an area I I have no experience or knowledge in, so I just I don't I don't mess with that.
20:01
SPEAKER_00: And typically you have to trespass too, right?
20:04
SPEAKER_01: That's what I it that's the funny thing, because that's what I think I'm such a like baby about.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: Like I just don't want to like try I'm like every time Crystal and I are like, let's go here, let's go there, I'm like, oh but it says no trespassing, and I don't want to get shot or arrested.
20:19
SPEAKER_00: Like Yeah, as as being a member of law enforcement, I try to shy away from trespassing.
20:24
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
20:25
SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, yeah, that's right.
20:26
SPEAKER_01: I guess probably right, because you were in the Air Force.
20:29
SPEAKER_00: Are you are you still are you like I I was in the Air Force, um, security forces.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: I was in for about 12 years.
20:37
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
20:38
SPEAKER_00: Um not in anymore um due to the COVID mandate, um, which is what led me to starting a coffee business because I needed a backup plan fast.
20:47
SPEAKER_01: Right.
20:47
SPEAKER_00: Things got so things got so dicey.
20:49
SPEAKER_00: Um because I also worked for the federal government, so of course they were trying to fire us too for not getting the shot.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: Um so starting the coffee business, you know, my whole timeline for telling you about coffee is all out of whack for this, and I apologize.
21:02
SPEAKER_01: No, that's fine.
21:04
SPEAKER_00: But um, but that's why I did start the coffee business originally, was because I needed my wife because I was getting discharged from the Air Force um because I was in the reserves, and then my full-time job um with the government, they were trying to fire all of us, and it was a huge mess.
21:18
SPEAKER_00: But we won, thank God.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: So didn't have to rely on the coffee business alone to survive.
21:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:24
SPEAKER_01: But so you're in security now?
21:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I'm uh I'm a federal law enforcement officer.
21:31
SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
21:31
SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool.
21:32
SPEAKER_01: Oh, then yeah, well, I guess we probably shouldn't be trespassing.
21:35
SPEAKER_00: You're like, oh no, uh, next up, what am I doing?
21:37
SPEAKER_00: Having him on the show.
21:38
unknown: Oh no, no.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
21:42
SPEAKER_01: It's totally fine.
21:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean my promise, I'm not I'm not a plant.
21:47
SPEAKER_00: No.
21:50
SPEAKER_01: That's a conspiracy theory in this little pod space.
21:53
SPEAKER_01: It's amazing.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: Like a lot of people like there's apparently a lot of plants, which is crazy.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that that's definitely a real thing.
22:03
SPEAKER_00: Um it just I don't know.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: Like we were talking about you know, the Christian fringe and I think the whole conspiracy theory um community and in general, you know, encompassing all of it.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of right and man, there's so much wrong.
22:20
SPEAKER_00: Um like it it's so hard to follow.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: And we don't have to go down this, you can you know, edit this one out or tell me to shut up, but when I, you know, because a lot of the people I follow and I love, um, man, and of course they rail against the government.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: And I I'm super conservative, like I don't want to, you know, a massive police state or anything like that.
22:37
SPEAKER_00: But when they talk about, you know, certain government things, I'm like, I don't know.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: I I work in it, and it's a bunch of people like me, we're just we're just trying to get through our day, you know.
22:46
SPEAKER_00: Like, we're not out to get anyone, so it's it's it's hard to follow sometimes, but I digress.
22:51
SPEAKER_01: So I think sometimes for me, and one thing that I often share with my audience is just you know, whether you're prayerful or not, like just use your good instincts.
23:03
SPEAKER_01: Like, if if something that you're listening to is super distracting and you know, really not edifying for your your mind, your body, your spirit, you know, you're finding yourself kind of becoming obsessed with things, take a step back.
23:17
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, sometimes some there's some content that's just not for you, you know.
23:23
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's been plenty of people that I've just been like, and especially in the Christian fringe space, like it's it's challenging because you want to be respectful, you know, for everybody, but there are just some things where I'm just like, you know what?
23:36
SPEAKER_01: I don't really feel like this theory is something that I need to be paying attention to, you know, and going down like you know, like different rabbit holes and stuff like that.
23:45
SPEAKER_01: But it's like I could probably just be spending my time, you know, either in the Bible or you know, doing something else that's a little bit more edifying than trying to figure out, and I think sometimes we just try to like shove everything into like okay, how do I reconcile all of the stuff?
24:03
SPEAKER_01: Like, not just having an experience, but then also, you know, well, what about Bigfoot?
24:08
SPEAKER_01: Like, what about ghosts?
24:09
SPEAKER_01: Like, how do we jam all that into the Bible and stuff?
24:12
SPEAKER_01: And it's like sometimes it I just want to like not ruin the mystery, like you know.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: I I I totally get that.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, to what you're saying right before that though, with like um sometimes you just when it when you're listening to so many podcasts and so many which ultimately comes down to the conspiracy theories and the books and who you're listening to, it's all really fun, but sometimes you just gotta go outside and breathe because you can't let that consume you, because man, it'll it'll it can't put you in a dark place, whether you realize it or not, and you don't want to be that person that only talks about it whenever you see your friends or meet new people.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: Oh, for sure.
24:48
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was definitely doing that.
24:50
SPEAKER_01: Like, I got to I mean, in I think Crystal and I joked about it on an episode where like we were having like book club or something, and I was with around a like I was with a bunch of people that like you know are normies and don't don't spend their time talking about either you know Bigfoot in the Bible or just you know the just either way, I'm weird.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: And we were talking about something in this book, and I was like, oh yeah, just like MK Ultra, and it was like crickets, nobody crystal was like, yeah, that you really way to way to bring the room down, Christina.
25:22
SPEAKER_00: Like no, I get it.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: I definitely I've definitely been there too, and it's it's just one of those things you kind of can just check yourself, you know.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but at the same time, it's really fun, and I enjoy it, so oh for sure.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm either a weirdo because of like aliens and bigfoot or I'm a weirdo because of Jesus, so it's whatever.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, it's all all the above.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: All of the above.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: It's funny because um, so Chris Price from uh the Camp Herman podcast, I actually so I was I was the best man at his wedding, and so when I read the best man speech, um is that what you call it?
25:56
SPEAKER_00: I can't remember.
25:56
SPEAKER_00: Um but when whenever I introduced myself to the crowd, I was like, just so you guys know, I met Chris at a UFO conference, but don't don't freak out, it was a Christian UFO conference.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: Um and I of course you know everyone laughed because that's that's you know Chris.
26:12
SPEAKER_00: Um but also it sounds so goofy being not just a UFO conference, but a Christian UFO conference.
26:17
SPEAKER_01: Right.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: It was the um it was the Tim Alberino and uh Blurred Creatures conference they had a few years back.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: So BlurryCon.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: Yep, the first BlurryCon.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
26:28
SPEAKER_01: I want to go so bad.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: Like, uh, I just I don't know what it is.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: Like I something's just like not opening up for me to go to any of this stuff because I'm in Maryland and it's like everything is so everything is so far away.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: And there's nothing like that here, so I'm just like, oh but most of the most of the fringe podcasters I feel like are in the Midwest.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: Um and so you're just you're the holdout, you know, you're shining that light up in the up in New England area.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: So I mean considered New England?
26:58
SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't know.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: I don't think so.
27:01
SPEAKER_01: Maybe the East Coast, how about that?
27:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just East Coast.
27:05
SPEAKER_01: I'm like Chesapeake Bay, yeah.
27:08
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for Maryland, Delaware, Virginia.
27:11
SPEAKER_01: Right.
27:12
SPEAKER_01: That whole area.
27:13
SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, so you oh, so how did you get connected with because I don't really know those guys.
27:19
SPEAKER_01: I don't think I've connected with them yet.
27:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I do enjoy their show a lot.
27:23
SPEAKER_00: Um we just we met at the conference.
27:25
SPEAKER_00: Um basically if anyone had a blurry creature shirt on, we just would nerd out and be like, hey, you look Jesus and Bigfoot, and then we would just start talking.
27:33
SPEAKER_00: And that's how I met Chris.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: So nice.
27:35
SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
27:36
SPEAKER_01: And you were on their show, weren't you?
27:37
SPEAKER_01: You were the you shared some of your stuff on on their show.
27:40
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
27:41
SPEAKER_00: Um I was on episode 17, uh terrifying trek through the Irish Wilderness.
27:48
SPEAKER_00: Um because I had a I had a a weird experience a few years ago.
27:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, do you want me to jump into this now or yeah, if you want to, sure.
27:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I um I'm trying to remember how we started our whole conversation, and now we're here.
28:03
SPEAKER_00: So no, um, so in 2022, I got kicked out of the Air Force.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: And um, and man, that that whole story too is um it's wild, the whole process they put us through.
28:15
SPEAKER_00: Like, like, I I rec my my story is different from everybody.
28:22
SPEAKER_00: Um Edwin had their own convictions, some people had no convictions.
28:27
SPEAKER_00: I I personally I had a I had a really good career in the Air Force.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: Um and I had put a lot of time and dedication into it.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: And for any military nerds out there, I had gotten accepted to um officer training school, so I was gonna be a commissioned officer in security forces.
28:44
SPEAKER_00: So I was waiting for school dates to go.
28:46
SPEAKER_00: Um but I refused the uh the vaccine.
28:52
SPEAKER_00: Um and you know what?
28:54
SPEAKER_00: At first I was gonna get it, but I, you know, something seemed off, you know, as as a lot of us thought that something's weird.
29:03
SPEAKER_00: So I prayed about it and I decided I'll just get the vaccine.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to ruin my you know career.
29:08
SPEAKER_00: Everything's great, but uh man, I got convicted so hard by the Holy Spirit.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: Like I was I was in line um to get the shot on uh at the whatever, um, what's it called?
29:20
SPEAKER_00: Hospital on base.
29:22
SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah, at the base.
29:23
SPEAKER_00: I got out of line because like I got so convicted.
29:26
SPEAKER_00: I I I couldn't do it, you know.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: And wow, oh my gosh.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: I went to everybody I knew, any any spiritual mentor, I went to my pastor, I went to everyone I could think of, um, and was trying to get an excuse to get the shot.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, and everybody ultimately came back to me and said, like, hey, you know what, you don't pray about it.
29:45
SPEAKER_00: You know, if you're convicted not to do it, don't do it.
29:47
SPEAKER_00: So I didn't get the answer I wanted.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I um I didn't do it.
29:51
SPEAKER_00: And I I told, you know, on my leadership I wasn't gonna do it, and I I I was against it.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: Um felt convicted by the Holy Spirit, and they thought that was a really bad um excuse that I was being convicted by the Holy Spirit to not do it, but I didn't have the other answer, you know.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: And of course, you know, you go down this there's so many other reasons why, you know, whether it's First Amendment, uh religious freedom, um uh aborted babies being used to create these vaccines.
30:15
SPEAKER_00: We don't know what mRNA technology really does.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: It's gene therapy, it's not really a vaccine.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: How dangerous is that for you?
30:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, there's a billion other things, but for me personally, like my main drive at that point um was just how convicted I was over over the whole, you know, from the Holy Spirit.
30:31
SPEAKER_00: Um and so uh man, um, so then you Oh, sorry, go ahead.
30:40
SPEAKER_01: Oh no, I was just gonna try to see like get the timeline.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: So after you left the Air Force, um, you said that you had where did that experience kind of come and and lead into?
30:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sorry.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: Um one thing after another.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: Basically, it was it was a really um uh traumatizing time period because I was threatened with jail.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, I was threatened with uh getting fired from my civilian job.
31:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, it was a huge mess.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, one of the last phone calls I ever got from anybody in the Air Force was like, hey, you need to probably get a lawyer.
31:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, your commander um once is coming after you, basically.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: Um really offended um that I wasn't gonna get the vaccine, so he wanted to ruin my life, apparently.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, which I do believe it was the Navy was the only branch that actively was jailing people.
31:25
SPEAKER_00: Um the Air Force, the reason why I was apparently not pursued was because my boss's next level boss said no, just just kick him out.
31:35
SPEAKER_00: So I was very fortunate.
31:36
SPEAKER_00: Uh but, anyways, so um a couple months after that, I was I just I don't know what what the deal was, but I wanted to um basically just get alone and just think about all of it and kind of just have some me time, you know?
31:51
SPEAKER_00: So on Father's Day, um in 2022, I think it was, I decided um that I would just go on like a 20-mile hike or do something, you know, something big like that.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: So my wife had uh blessed the decision.
32:06
SPEAKER_00: And so I thought about you know some cool areas I'd never been to, and there's a place in um southern Missouri called the Irish Wilderness, and I knew of it, it sounded really cool.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: I knew it was kind of near a place that had uh been rumored to be called Marley Woods, which is Missouri's version of Skinwalker Ranch.
32:24
SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
32:25
SPEAKER_00: And in case you guys don't know, but Coast to Coast AM with George Norrie is um broadcasted out of St.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: Louis.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: Um and so apparently George Norrie gets to go down to Marley Woods, which that's the code name for it.
32:37
SPEAKER_00: Um I'm trying to stay on track, I promise.
32:39
SPEAKER_01: No, no, you're good.
32:40
SPEAKER_00: And so I would hear him talk about it, and uh he would have these guests on, and if you he would talk about like places near it, and the biggest town near it was like West Plains, Missouri, and Donovan, Missouri.
32:52
SPEAKER_00: And so I was looking at the map, and um, I think the Irish Wilderness is like somewhere in the middle by like I think the nearest town technically is Pilot, Missouri.
33:01
SPEAKER_00: Um and I got on like a bunch of Reddit pages, and I think I had tracked it down.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's another store.
33:05
SPEAKER_00: So I was like, oh, that might be a cool area to go go hike in.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: Um so the story behind the Irish Wilderness is it there was an Irish settlement um down there.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: Um Irish settlers, immigrants had you know built a town, and during the Civil War, um basically uh control of the town went back and forth between uh the Union and the Confederacy because Missouri was uh um constantly uh ebbing and flowing between um Union and Confederacy.
33:33
SPEAKER_00: And so after the war, um there's a Catholic, there's an Irish Catholic priest in Chicago, and it was his job.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: He was he looked over that area as his jurisdiction, I guess you would say.
33:43
SPEAKER_00: So he went down to the um wilderness to visit, and the town was just gone.
33:48
SPEAKER_00: Um no remains, apparently, for the most part.
33:50
SPEAKER_01: Really?
33:51
SPEAKER_00: Someone was in there a few years back and they found it like an old rock chimney and they posted pictures on Reddit.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that's that's all that's left of the town.
34:00
SPEAKER_00: And there's a suspected place where they believe that the Irish where the Catholic Church was.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: Um but it was gone.
34:08
SPEAKER_00: And so spooky.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: What happened?
34:10
SPEAKER_00: And there were um the OSH Indians did live there uh in the caves on the um, I think it was called White's Creek, which is um which goes right through the wilderness, um, and connects to the 11th point river, which um cuts through the wilderness as well.
34:26
SPEAKER_00: And uh so basically I thought, oh, there's a lot of weird stuff down there, so that's kind of cool, and I like weird stuff, um, especially in the woods.
34:32
SPEAKER_00: But when I went down there, I kind of just wanted to go out there, just kind of have some alone time and and think.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: And I think there's a part of me that really just kind of wanted to prove to myself that I was I don't know, it sounds dumb or silly, but like still worthy of like crazy adventures because I got kicked out of the Air Force and it meant so much to me.
34:48
SPEAKER_00: And um, so I was like, eh, I'll go do a 20-mile hike, you know.
34:51
SPEAKER_00: I I don't know, I'm a silly guy, I guess.
34:54
SPEAKER_00: But but um um so, anyways, um I didn't do any research really besides uh just knowing that story and that Hollywoods might be in the area, so I thought it'd be kind of cool if I could see some UFOs that night or something.
35:07
SPEAKER_00: Um because uh Tim Alberino, oh, before I go into anything else, do you ever follow Tim Alvarino?
35:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:14
SPEAKER_00: So when I was at his conference, he said, the reason why people never see UFOs is because we never take time to just look up.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: And if you just look up, you will see UFOs or strange things in the sky.
35:26
SPEAKER_00: So I kept thinking, oh, I'll just look up when I'm out there.
35:29
SPEAKER_00: So um, and I do apologize, I talk a lot.
35:32
SPEAKER_00: I should have warned you ahead of time.
35:33
SPEAKER_00: No, that's fine.
35:34
SPEAKER_00: I will do so much talking, so kind of just interrupt at any point.
35:37
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I went down there.
35:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's it man, it's it's in the middle of nowhere.
35:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, no cell service once you get to the um like uh trailhead.
35:48
SPEAKER_00: So I park, I get out, and I I was uh winging this thing.
35:52
SPEAKER_00: Um I didn't really pack for overnight.
35:54
SPEAKER_00: Um my wife gave me the blessing to to camp overnight on the trail if I wanted to, which I did not prepare for that.
35:59
SPEAKER_00: I wasn't going to.
36:00
SPEAKER_00: Um so I um I brought like a camelback with me and my hiking bag just for fun, um, just in case.
36:08
SPEAKER_00: And uh basically as soon as I started on the trail, um, I tried to go south.
36:13
SPEAKER_00: It's it's uh about 20 mile trip, 18 to 20 miles or something like that.
36:20
SPEAKER_00: I tried going south uh on the big circle, and something in my gut was like, turn around, go the other way.
36:26
SPEAKER_00: And I was I tried always listen to my gut, um, you know, it's Holy Spirit.
36:30
SPEAKER_00: And so I uh I turned around, I was like, alright, I'll go north.
36:34
SPEAKER_00: And um, which I long story short, I if I had gone south, I would have never made it um out because I tr my second trip out there, I tried going south.
36:44
SPEAKER_00: It was a nightmare.
36:44
SPEAKER_00: But anyways, so I started going north on the tr on the um loop.
36:48
SPEAKER_00: And uh man, I should have listened to the um uh the Campermon uh podcast because I can't remember how I worded it uh originally, but um basically I saw a pile of like trees that were leaned up against each other.
37:02
SPEAKER_00: Um and so like I was not I would I did not go out here um looking for Sasquatch or looking for anything weird.
37:10
SPEAKER_00: I just thought it was a cool area.
37:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was gonna hike it, and it was gonna be an awesome trip, and I was gonna be exhausted afterwards.
37:18
SPEAKER_00: And so uh I saw like a pile of trees uh piled up against each other and it looked like a it looked like a tree structure, like a teepee, and I thought, oh, that's weird.
37:25
SPEAKER_00: Um and I I got up closer and um after kind of dismissing it, uh, I wanted to look at it.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, and as I got closer, I realized that all these logs had been um drug up to the spot, and it was it was a like a teepee, like a tree structure.
37:40
SPEAKER_00: And um I looked around um and there's no big trees above it or anything that these these logs or these giant limbs could have fallen to um just imperfectly in place.
37:52
SPEAKER_00: It was like five or so logs.
37:53
SPEAKER_00: Um and if I have the pictures, I'll send them to you.
37:55
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that would be great.
37:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:57
SPEAKER_00: I had sent them to Chris um a while ago.
38:00
SPEAKER_00: But uh, I'll see if I can find them.
38:02
SPEAKER_00: And I thought that's weird, what a coincidence.
38:04
SPEAKER_00: So we kept hiking, and maybe like 30 seconds later, I saw another thing which I thought was a it looked just like a tree structure, and I was like, there's there's no chance.
38:12
SPEAKER_00: Um I walked up close and I was like, these are just three or four trees that just grew next into each other, and then as I got close, like it looked like it had been sawn at the bottom of it.
38:21
SPEAKER_00: There's tons of like um it looked like it had just been ground up at the bottom of it, and it had this big limb had been dragged over, and so had another one, and I was like, that's really, really weird.
38:32
SPEAKER_00: If I was if I in my mind I was like, these are these are like tree structures, but I'm not here for that.
38:38
SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, but I'm just thinking that because I'm a I'm a Bigfoot guy, so I'm like, I'm just you know, um just being paranoid because I love that stuff.
38:45
SPEAKER_00: So I thought, whatever, I'm gonna keep going.
38:48
SPEAKER_00: And so uh I don't know how big of a Bigfoot nerd you are.
38:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm assuming somewhat because your podcast called Sasquatch and Sourdough.
38:56
SPEAKER_00: But um, I found a tree, like almost immediately after that, I found a tree bend.
39:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's when like the a tree is bent right over the trail.
39:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:04
SPEAKER_00: This is really odd.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: Um and so I just kind of ducked under it and I kept going, and I was like, huh, these weird stuff that you know, these are little symptoms of like Bigfoot.
39:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:15
SPEAKER_01: Can I ask you?
39:16
SPEAKER_01: So the when you say it it looked like it was kind of like like like cut up at the bottom, like could it look like something kind of like, you know, when you see things that like beavers are like chewing and things was it like chewed or no, it was chewed?
39:33
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't sawed or chewed.
39:34
SPEAKER_00: It just looked like it had been mangled real bad.
39:36
SPEAKER_03: Hmm.
39:37
SPEAKER_00: But there was no root around it.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: Um it looked like a for like maybe for like a foot, it looked like it had been drug at one point, like just the bottom kind of scraped against the ground.
39:47
SPEAKER_00: But it wasn't, it was there was no it didn't look like a beaver, it didn't look like someone had cut it with a what like uh like a saw.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: It just looked like it had been mangled real bad.
39:55
SPEAKER_01: Um how tall was it, do you think?
39:57
SPEAKER_01: Um the structure itself.
39:59
SPEAKER_00: Like um gosh, what a regular tree.
40:03
SPEAKER_00: Um like a story and a half, maybe.
40:05
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
40:05
SPEAKER_00: Um so it was just real tall, like a big, big tree limbs.
40:08
SPEAKER_01: So right.
40:09
SPEAKER_01: Um it's not like homeschool moms making crafts out there in the woodlands.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, that's the other thing.
40:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, I wish I could um reiterate, like this this is a wilderness.
40:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's a national wilderness.
40:21
SPEAKER_00: So they're and it's in the middle of the Mark Twain National Forest.
40:24
SPEAKER_00: So what makes like a national forest different different from like a national wilderness is that you're not allowed to make fires, you're not allowed to bring um animals in.
40:35
SPEAKER_00: Um it's just it's completely barren.
40:37
SPEAKER_00: Like the fact that they maintain a trail um is really unique uh compared to like all the regulations, but they barely keep the trail.
40:46
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
40:47
SPEAKER_00: Um it's not very well kept.
40:49
SPEAKER_00: And so many times during this uh trail um well of this hike, I I would lose the trail.
40:54
SPEAKER_00: And so I would have to start like moving out like coincidentric circles to try and um basically find where the trail goes because you just lose it, like it's not kept up well at all.
41:03
SPEAKER_00: So um you have to use like a lot of like Epson Lane, but like pathfinding skills.
41:08
SPEAKER_00: Um and so basically I had to do that several times.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: Um and so probably I want to say it was like 10 to 12 miles later.
41:20
SPEAKER_00: Basically, I'm just huffing it through the forest, um, just enjoying a brutal hike because I really enjoy um I'm a I'm a glutton for punishment, and I just really love really intense things like hikes, really, really intense hikes like that.
41:34
SPEAKER_00: Um so I'm sweating, and apparently I, you know, right before I got there, I found out it was like the second hottest day of the summer or something like that.
41:41
SPEAKER_00: So I was sweating, and I was really glad I brought my camel back.
41:44
SPEAKER_00: Um and I I hadn't really eaten, I didn't like prepare on my way there for anything.
41:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
41:49
SPEAKER_00: Like stopped at a gas station.
41:50
SPEAKER_00: I was like downing like gas station pizza.
41:52
SPEAKER_00: That was disgusting.
41:53
SPEAKER_00: But anyways.
41:54
SPEAKER_02: Oh, geez.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: So at one point though, um, so basically I pass, you know, I'm I'm halfway through.
42:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm now um, so like you started one end of the wilderness, and on the opposite side is the 11point river.
42:08
SPEAKER_00: And so at one point the trail starts going down the other river on the opposite side, which I think I said earlier it cuts through the middle, but it's just on one side that I apologize.
42:16
SPEAKER_00: Um but um there is a basically at some point I lose a trail, essentially.
42:21
SPEAKER_00: This is where it gets interesting.
42:23
SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
42:23
SPEAKER_00: Um so for like four hours later, um I'm trying to I'm trying to beat the sun going down so I don't have to rely on flashlights because I've done that before and it's really uh scared out of the wilderness.
42:34
SPEAKER_00: Um I get to a point where I can't find where the trail is, and I spend like 40 minutes um just searching over and over again, trying, you know, retracing my footsteps, trying to see where the trail goes, and I just I just lost the connector.
42:49
SPEAKER_00: I I couldn't figure out where it was.
42:51
SPEAKER_00: So the sun's going down, it's like 8 o'clock or 8 30 or something.
42:54
SPEAKER_00: I really don't remember.
42:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, but the sun's going down, and I know I'm in trouble because I'm on the opposite end of the wilderness from where any road is, um, or where my car was at least.
43:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I uh I just got on my compass and I was like, well, I'll just hike east until I get to a road.
43:10
SPEAKER_00: Um I I've been in similar situations, getting lost at night in the woods.
43:13
SPEAKER_00: So um I was like, well, I'll just follow compass and I'll get out eventually.
43:18
SPEAKER_00: Um so I tried doing that.
43:20
SPEAKER_00: Um and so uh basically I I go for what feels like forever, and I just find myself at the bottom of this creek.
43:28
SPEAKER_00: Um and I was like, okay, cool.
43:30
SPEAKER_00: So I had saved a picture of like the wilderness on my GPS beforehand, but I pull out my phone and um I'm just kind of like zooming in, looking at all the creeks and stuff like that, trying to figure out where I am.
43:41
SPEAKER_00: And I'm pretty sure I know where I'm at.
43:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm at Whites Creek.
43:43
SPEAKER_00: Um and across the creek, there it says that there was like a float camp or something like that.
43:49
SPEAKER_00: So I have that in the back of my mind, so there might be people nearby.
43:53
SPEAKER_00: Um and basically I crossed the creek at some point, and I just kept trying to go east.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know what happened.
44:01
SPEAKER_00: It was very Lovecraftian, but like I passed a couple big caves, and they're like, I got the heebie jeeby so bad from them.
44:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then it kind of clicked with me, like, oh yeah, the OSH Indians lived on the creek that was at the mouth of the river, so they probably lived in the caves.
44:13
SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
44:15
SPEAKER_00: But somehow, as I keep going up these hills, I keep coming back to the same caves and on the same creek over and over again.
44:20
SPEAKER_00: I was like, okay, this is this isn't good.
44:22
SPEAKER_00: Uh it's getting dark, so something something's wrong.
44:24
SPEAKER_00: So I figured after a while, I'm just gonna follow the creek out to the river, and maybe if there is a float camp on the other side, I can like scream for help or something.
44:33
SPEAKER_00: So I um I uh basically I I follow the creek back to um the river, and uh cool enough, um, as it is, I found like an old dilapidated campsite um where like there were signs at one point, but like like the signs are kind of like they've withered away and I can't tell what they say.
44:50
SPEAKER_00: And there's like an old dock where there used to be like part of a dock, but now it's just like steps up in um that kind of go out of the creek into uh like uh somewhat of a campsite.
45:01
SPEAKER_01: And there's like Camp Crystal Lake.
45:03
SPEAKER_00: You what?
45:04
SPEAKER_01: I said it's it feels like Camp Crystal Lake, like something from so creepy.
45:08
SPEAKER_00: Well many of the creek there's a bunch of like old wooden boards where I'm guessing that like this used to be like a campsite, but okay, it's the wilderness, so they don't keep up with it.
45:16
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
45:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but it took me like five hours to hike to this, and there's no way rangers are gonna do that unless they came through the river.
45:23
SPEAKER_00: So, anyways, um which is a which when I did go back, I I used I actually rafted down the river because I was like, I'm never hiking that again.
45:31
SPEAKER_00: Um I bought a raft raft off Amazon.
45:35
SPEAKER_00: Um I keep going back.
45:38
SPEAKER_00: Um, anyways, so I find this dilapidated campsite, and um, I'm looking at my map, and I'm like, okay, well, I'll cross over the creek and I'll hike to the edge and I'll call for help and see if there's anyone on the other side.
45:48
SPEAKER_00: So I man, just to reiterate, like, this wilderness is in the middle of nowhere, and I just hiked like 10 miles into the middle of nowhere.
45:57
SPEAKER_00: There's nothing in sight, there's no one in sight.
46:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, I have no service.
46:01
SPEAKER_00: I tried at this point, I don't remember if I've tried calling 911, but I tried several times because I was like, I I need help.
46:06
SPEAKER_00: Like, this is this is gonna be bad.
46:08
SPEAKER_01: I had a question, so I guess I'm a little um this is why I if I'm not going on like a straight trail, like I can I can I love hiking too, but like I will get lost in the woods for sure.
46:21
SPEAKER_01: So when you were describing it, when you kind of were going past like the rocks and stuff, were d were you feeling like you were going in circles?
46:30
SPEAKER_01: Like, is that what had happened, or you just said you kept going east?
46:36
SPEAKER_01: But you were passing the same thing?
46:37
SPEAKER_00: And I was trying just to go east, and I just felt like if for some reason I kept stumbling back into the same same creek over and over again with the same caves.
46:46
SPEAKER_00: Um and I was doing something wrong.
46:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, I couldn't just go east, apparently, so that's why I got nervous, was like, I can't I can't keep doing this.
46:54
SPEAKER_00: Um and that's that's why I felt very good with crafting, so I kept finding myself in the same place over and over again.
46:59
SPEAKER_01: Right.
47:00
SPEAKER_00: And that's why I went back.
47:01
SPEAKER_00: I started heading out to the river, um, hoping I could maybe get a hold of that um yeah, uh try and find somebody like in a float camp somewhere or something.
47:10
SPEAKER_01: Um that's crazy.
47:11
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, so I um I crossed the this like I was saying earlier, this place is in the middle of nowhere.
47:17
SPEAKER_00: And so I crossed over the creek um and there's barely any light.
47:22
SPEAKER_00: And uh so I'm following the opposite side of the creek to like the most um western edge of like this this little plateau area to maybe try and see if anyone's at the float camp on the other side of the river.
47:36
SPEAKER_00: And so I'm I'm crawling through like brush.
47:39
SPEAKER_00: It's like Vietnam.
47:41
SPEAKER_00: Um like the bush, that's the way to describe it.
47:44
SPEAKER_01: Right.
47:44
SPEAKER_00: And okay, this is the craziest part.
47:46
SPEAKER_00: Um it's actually not the craziest part, but um, I find a bed made out of limbs, uh, 550 cord, a trash bag, and leaves underneath the trash bag.
47:59
SPEAKER_00: And the first thing that comes to my mind is there's wild people out here or there's a fugitive.
48:05
SPEAKER_00: So at that point I get my gun out and I chamber around.
48:08
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, I I am, you know, um, which you know, gun nuts are gonna listen to this and be like, why wasn't a round already chambered?
48:13
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know.
48:13
SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
48:14
SPEAKER_00: Um it just it's way cooler this way.
48:17
SPEAKER_00: Um so then I'm like really paranoid.
48:19
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh somebody out here watching me, you know?
48:22
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
48:23
SPEAKER_00: So then I crawl out to the edge of the river and I'm on the kind of little little plateau point.
48:28
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I'm looking at my map and it should be directly across the river.
48:31
SPEAKER_00: So I'm yelling, like, help anyone over there.
48:33
SPEAKER_00: Which later I found later I found out that um the GPS had just marked the wrong spot, and it was like up the river was the um the raft, the float camp.
48:41
SPEAKER_00: So there's there was nothing there.
48:43
SPEAKER_00: So um I didn't want to be there anymore, so I got back into the creek and I um crossed it again, but this this time I didn't want to go all the way because there's so much so many cat claws.
48:52
SPEAKER_00: Do you know do you know what that is?
48:53
SPEAKER_03: Mm-mm.
48:54
SPEAKER_00: It's really, really, really thorny vines.
48:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, mangle everything.
48:59
SPEAKER_00: There's tons of cat claws in there, and I was so cut up.
49:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I just crossed over the uh creek, but like I had my backpack over my head, so that the waters like up to here, and I was trying to get across because like I didn't want to go back through the cat claws, and it was disgusting, and I think I saw a snake.
49:12
SPEAKER_00: Um and I was like, I'm gonna die out here.
49:13
SPEAKER_00: This is how people are.
49:14
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
49:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
49:16
SPEAKER_00: So I find I give my there's that old um wooden um stair staircase type or whatever I was telling you about earlier, so I climbed up that and I went back to the dilapidated campsite, and I sit on a bench and I'm just trying to game plan.
49:27
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know what to do.
49:28
SPEAKER_00: It's dark now, I have my flashlight out.
49:33
SPEAKER_00: And um, oh man.
49:36
SPEAKER_00: Um so it's I think it's nine o'clock at this point, and um I am I'm so exhausted.
49:44
SPEAKER_00: Um I think I found like a like a protein bar in my bag and I ate it, and that's all I had.
49:49
SPEAKER_00: And it's so at this point, and I I'm trying to give you the short version of all this, because I I could I could go on, but um basically at some point like I'm I'm I accidentally like found like a family of like armadillos, and it was strangely comforting because I was like, oh friendly armadillos here, you know.
50:08
SPEAKER_00: Like I don't know what it was, it was weird because I was it's being out there for hours.
50:12
SPEAKER_00: It was just a really weird experience.
50:13
SPEAKER_01: So you're probably like feeling a little delirious, I would imagine, you know, like at least turned around or you know.
50:21
SPEAKER_00: So that's that's one thing I you know it I try and say I was delirious um at at all.
50:34
SPEAKER_00: Um I think I I've done a lot of um physically exerting things that are exerting myself physically a lot, and this is the kind of stuff I I like to do, um like pathfinding and doing stuff in the wilderness.
50:50
SPEAKER_00: Um this is just a really weird situation where like I wasn't able to find my way out the way I should have.
50:54
SPEAKER_00: Um so I tried I just I maintained composure as much as I could, you know, not getting too stressed out.
51:00
SPEAKER_00: Um because at the end of the day I know I've been lost before and I've been in some sticky situations where like I just have to push through until I get out, you know?
51:09
SPEAKER_00: Um so I I kind of um explored the campsite a little bit and eventually I found a trail um that went back up the creek and I thought, okay, cool, awesome, I found my way out.
51:19
SPEAKER_00: This is great.
51:20
SPEAKER_00: So I've got my um flashlight, and I keep thinking to myself, like, part of me, and I can't remember if I tried, I don't think I tried crossing the river yet, but um, at this point I remember thinking like this is gonna suck.
51:32
SPEAKER_00: I'm at least 10 miles in, and if I, you know, I'm gonna follow this trail, but it that means I have 10 miles out, and that took me four or five hours to get here, but I have to get out, like I don't really have an option.
51:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, I guess I could die if I don't get you know get out of here.
51:45
SPEAKER_00: So I follow the trail.
51:46
SPEAKER_00: The trail starts going up a hill, and um I'm walking up the the trail, and not once have I been thinking about anything about Bigfoot or anything scary the whole time.
51:58
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm just it's just me and nature and a family of armadillos.
52:02
SPEAKER_00: And uh as I'm going up this hill, um, I don't realize how quiet the forest is, but there's a creek to my left that's but like below the trail a little bit, and out of nowhere, just an er an ear-shattering boom from something huge smashing into the creek, like just hitting the water, completely shatters all silence in the forest.
52:29
SPEAKER_00: I all I'm just walking um up this trail, and I'm just frozen um for a moment.
52:36
SPEAKER_00: Uh and I turn and look, you know, you know, um, goosebumps, hair on the back of my neck, everything's up.
52:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm looking, I turn over with my flashlight and I look at the creek, and all I see are ripples coming out.
52:48
SPEAKER_00: And so the first thing that comes to my mind is and I have not thought about Bigfoot since I saw that um that uh the tree structure and the um the tree bend, not once, because I I put that out of my mind.
53:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, but the first thing that comes to my mind is something big, probably Bigfoot, just threw a giant rock in the crate to tell me to go away.
53:10
SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
53:11
SPEAKER_00: And so I stop and I I look, I stop and I look at the water.
53:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, I see the ripples, and then uh um, sorry.
53:21
SPEAKER_00: And uh I wait to see if like if an animal jumped to the water, they'll float back up to the surface.
53:25
SPEAKER_00: Nothing came up.
53:26
SPEAKER_00: If it was a limb uh from a tree, um it would have floated back up, you know.
53:31
SPEAKER_00: Um nothing floated up from the water.
53:33
SPEAKER_00: I looked back and forth, it was just ripples.
53:35
SPEAKER_00: So um something that loud, that heavy, it had to have been a rock, something super heavy that would not float as it fell into the whatever it was that hit the creek.
53:44
SPEAKER_00: And honestly, if it was and I try to be a skeptical, you know, before I start, you know, saying things like Bigfoot, but um if if a rock or a a deer or um a limb had like fallen, you would have heard it rolling down the hill, you know, thudding, but out of nowhere, it was pure silence, and then something massive hit the water.
54:03
SPEAKER_00: So the first thing that came to my mind was after I looked around was Bigfoot just threw a just threw a rock into the water to tell me to go away.
54:10
SPEAKER_00: Which, if you know anything about if you're a like you know, a Bigfoot nerd typically, rock throwing is a big indicator um for like uh you know, if a Sasquatch would be warning someone to stay away from them or you're my territory now, they often tend to throw big rocks um just as warnings.
54:27
SPEAKER_00: And so that kind of entered my mind.
54:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I thought, that's crazy.
54:31
SPEAKER_00: There's no way I've been looking for a Bigfoot experience my entire life, and it would be happening now while I'm lost in the woods in the middle of the night.
54:37
SPEAKER_00: This can't I can't I can't afford this right now.
54:40
SPEAKER_00: Um so I thought I think to myself, I I'm kind of still sitting there, you know, you you think so quickly.
54:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'm thinking, like, I don't have the opportunity to turn around.
54:50
SPEAKER_00: I have to follow this trail because I have to get home.
54:52
SPEAKER_00: Um at this time, I think I just had three kids.
54:55
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, three kids.
54:56
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I have to get home to my kids and wife.
54:59
SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, okay, cool.
55:00
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm just I'm gonna follow this up this trail.
55:02
SPEAKER_00: Um, whatever that giant rock was that landed in the water that had to have been thrown because I would have heard it rolling down a hill.
55:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm just gonna ignore it and keep going.
55:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm hiking up this hill, and I thought, okay, maybe if there's another indicator, maybe maybe I am walking into something I shouldn't be.
55:19
SPEAKER_00: And so um, I'm going up this hill, and there's a you know a canopy of trees over me, and um, I see a tree break, um, and there's a branch twisted off this um limb pointed down towards a the trail.
55:30
SPEAKER_00: And so, and also, you know, uh, if you if you're a nerd and you're into Bigfoot like I am, typically that's like an indicator of sometimes they'll um Southgotch will break limbs and they twist them in certain directions to say, hey, don't come this way, because this is this is my territory.
55:45
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, wow, that's a crazy um coincidence.
55:48
SPEAKER_00: And I keep hiking up this trail, up this hill, and then I see another one on the left, and at that point, I'm like, oh my gosh.
55:55
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I start apologizing, I start repenting to God.
55:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was just like, God, I'm so sorry.
56:01
SPEAKER_00: I needed an adventure, I should have been home with my family where I'm safe.
56:04
SPEAKER_00: I I I genuinely was repenting, and I was like, I never need an adventure again.
56:09
SPEAKER_00: So I keep going up this hill, and then I see another tree break, and then another one.
56:13
SPEAKER_00: So I saw four altogether, and at this point I'm crapping my pants.
56:16
SPEAKER_00: Um I am terrified.
56:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
56:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I I don't have a choice, so I have to keep going up this hill um because I'm following the trail.
56:25
SPEAKER_00: And um, man, I wish I could remember which it what it was first, but um far on my right, um, I heard what was a loud howl.
56:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, but then it slowly turned into like a deep growl, like a deep guttural growl.
56:42
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
56:44
SPEAKER_00: And I remember thinking, oh, cool, that's not how Bigfoot sounds, so there's no Bigfoot out here.
56:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, but the other thought in my mind was could that have been a boar?
56:53
SPEAKER_00: No, that's not a boar, because we have a lot of wild boar out here.
56:57
SPEAKER_00: Um and uh and I remember thinking, like, you know, that wasn't those weren't coyotes.
57:02
SPEAKER_00: I don't know what that sound was, but I have to keep going up this hill.
57:06
SPEAKER_00: But it was probably like 100, 150 feet off.
57:08
SPEAKER_00: Now, man, I don't want to go down too many rabbit holes, but I was listening to another podcast.
57:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I'm sorry, I'm gonna stay focused.
57:18
SPEAKER_00: So I'm going up this hill.
57:20
SPEAKER_00: And um then come crashing down the hill on my right is a big rock.
57:25
SPEAKER_00: Something there was a this is the part where you know I get I get uncomfortable about how I word things, but it's I'm just gonna say something through a rock, because a big rock was tumbling down the hill on my right, thud, thud, thud, rolling.
57:38
SPEAKER_00: And at that point I'm thinking, oh my gosh, like I'm I'm genuinely being told to not be here.
57:43
SPEAKER_00: And it's super cool, but also terrifying, and I I d I I don't know what to do.
57:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I just I keep going up the hill because I can't, I can't at this point it's survival because at this point I'm dehydrated, I don't have any water left, I'm in the middle of the forest.
57:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's like in my mind, it it's do or die, it's survival, so I have to keep on the only trail I know um to try and get out of the um the wilderness.
58:07
SPEAKER_00: Um so I I'm going up this hill, and I'm I'm following this trail, and the forest is dead silent, um, which is another thing that uh at some point I realize that it's it's quiet.
58:19
SPEAKER_00: There's there's nothing, there's no noises, but I keep hearing this really weird like cuckoo bird noise.
58:24
SPEAKER_00: Um which in my mind I'm also thinking is kind of weird, but also I think to myself, okay, there's a bird, which, you know, that means you know, the whole forest isn't isn't completely quiet because something's making noise, so there's no predators around.
58:41
SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm telling myself.
58:43
SPEAKER_00: But the other part of me is thinking, oh, Bigfoot's been known to imitate bird calls when they communicate with each other, so I d I don't know.
58:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I am uh I just continue going up this path, and you know, I I keep focusing on this bird, this weird cuckoo bird noise up in a tree, and I get closer and closer, and then as soon as I'm at the base of what I think is the tree um or that area, um, it stops making the noises, and then I keep I keep going, and then it goes for a little bit, it starts making this weird cuckoo noise and then stops, and the forest is still silent.
59:14
SPEAKER_00: And everything that's weird.
59:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's just a weird thing that happened um with the cuckoo bird noise, anyways.
59:20
SPEAKER_00: So I go back up that hill, and then I hear on the left side of me now, um, something big is crashing down the hill.
59:26
SPEAKER_00: So I'm assuming it's a rock, and I just heard it crash, crash, crash down the hill.
59:30
SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
59:31
SPEAKER_00: Um so I just remember, so I keep going up the hill after that.
59:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, and at some point, and I I I at some point everything starts walking parallel to me off the trail on my right side.
59:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, whatever it is, it has it's a two-legged gate um bipedal.
59:49
SPEAKER_00: Um there are bears.
59:52
SPEAKER_00: Sweetie, sweetie.
59:55
SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
59:55
SPEAKER_00: Um there are bears in the area, but bears don't walk like this.
59:59
SPEAKER_00: Um it it sounded like someone walking, like like a human would walk.
1:00:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, very purposeful.
1:00:06
SPEAKER_00: Um and so it's walking next to me, but on the other side of the trees, because the trees are thick, um, it's dark, I can't see, but at this point, like I'm I it's it's I don't know what else to how else to describe it, but it's walking next to me.
1:00:19
SPEAKER_00: And at this point in my mind, I'm I'm constantly thinking, okay, so for all Bigfoot stories, because at this point I'm genuinely convinced that I am in Bigfoot territory and I'm not supposed to be there.
1:00:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so uh I'm getting used by talking about it again.
1:00:32
SPEAKER_00: Um and at this point, um, I'm constantly looking left and right and behind me with my flashlight, like any second I'm gonna see it, like it's it's there, something's there.
1:00:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I know in like um typical Bigfoot stories, like um at some point when people know they're being stalked, like Bigfoot just walks out and like screams at them with that blood curdling scream, and I'm just waiting, like, my time's coming.
1:00:54
SPEAKER_00: I don't know the wilderness.
1:00:55
SPEAKER_00: Does this mean I'm gonna die?
1:00:57
SPEAKER_00: What what is the intent?
1:00:59
SPEAKER_00: Um oh my gosh, uh, I haven't told the story in a while.
1:01:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh I'm just waiting.
1:01:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, so then I also think, um, well, one thing I've I've I can't I've kind of come to acceptance and a bigfoot lore, um, is that they're much more intelligent um than we would than most people lit on.
1:01:23
SPEAKER_00: So I tend to think that Sasquatch is far more sentient than we realize, whatever it is, because I've I've had so many ideas what I think Sasquatch is.
1:01:32
SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't know, but I know they're intelligent.
1:01:34
SPEAKER_00: So this is really embarrassing and silly sounding, but at this point I just say out loud.
1:01:40
SPEAKER_00: Um I say, I'm really sorry, I'm in your home right now, but I just want to go home.
1:01:46
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to be here.
1:01:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I just say that out loud.
1:01:49
SPEAKER_00: Um and I keep walking and it keeps walking whatever to my right.
1:01:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I know this is also kind of weird, but in my mind, I you know, you know how like if you smell like a fancy perfume in a room, you're like, oh, a a girl was here, or if you smell a cologne, like a guy was here.
1:02:08
SPEAKER_00: Um or if you're outside and you see light, like you're like, oh, it's daytime.
1:02:12
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
1:02:12
SPEAKER_00: It's hard to explain.
1:02:13
SPEAKER_00: But in the back of my mind, the word female kept coming to mind.
1:02:17
SPEAKER_00: Um it really weird.
1:02:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know.
1:02:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, just really weird, but that's something that will come to mind.
1:02:26
SPEAKER_00: And remember thinking about that for a while.
1:02:28
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know if that's a pheromone thing.
1:02:31
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
1:02:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, but anyways, so I did not draw my gun at all at this point.
1:02:37
SPEAKER_00: I had it in my holster.
1:02:39
SPEAKER_00: Because I kept thinking, like, I know at this point, like, a gun's not not gonna do anything.
1:02:44
SPEAKER_00: No one ever has a story about taking on a sasquatch with a gun.
1:02:47
SPEAKER_00: Anyone who's credible.
1:02:48
SPEAKER_00: Um so I'm like, that's all that I I'm not gonna show any aggression because clearly I'm I'm being escorted or stalked or something, and um I just keep walking.
1:03:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, and at some point, um, I'm down the trail, and uh, I just notice that um the trail has disappeared again, and I I'm trying to find the trail again, and I realize that I'm lost.
1:03:13
SPEAKER_00: I can't find the trail.
1:03:15
SPEAKER_00: And I realize at this point the hair in the back of my neck isn't standing anymore, and I realize I'm alone.
1:03:20
SPEAKER_00: Um and it's super relieving, but at the same point, I'm lost.
1:03:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I keep thinking I'm not, I can't, I'm not gonna turn around and go back that trail because there's no way I'm going back down that that road or that trail, clearly.
1:03:32
SPEAKER_00: Um and so uh I just decide like I get on my compass and I'm like, well, if I go, I don't know, I I don't remember at this point, but I'm like, if I just go down this hill, I'll get back to the creek and I'll be fine.
1:03:48
SPEAKER_00: And so I tried crawling down the side of this hill and it was steep.
1:03:50
SPEAKER_00: Holy cow! Like at this at that point, like I had all of like like my obliques were cramping.
1:03:56
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, I was thinking this is also how people die.
1:03:58
SPEAKER_00: I am severely dehydrated.
1:04:01
SPEAKER_00: Um and so I just kind of like shimmy down this hill, like limping, basically, and I get back to this creepy river uh or this creepy creek.
1:04:09
SPEAKER_00: And I I uh I I you know walked by these caves, and it was the creepiest thing ever following these caves or walking by these caves, and I just went back to that old delected campsite and I just sat there for a bit.
1:04:21
SPEAKER_00: Um and uh there's another area where I thought there might have been a trail, and I started to walk up it um that would parallel going north to the the with the trick river, and I just had the weirdest heebie juebies like don't go that way, so I just turned around and went back.
1:04:36
SPEAKER_00: But um, part of me is super excited and absolutely mortified that I just had the weirdest what I believe is a Sasquatch encounter ever.
1:04:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:04:47
SPEAKER_00: Um and but you know what?
1:04:49
SPEAKER_00: So far, thank God I have not come across any wild animals uh besides the armadellos.
1:04:54
SPEAKER_00: Um you know, and at some point, and I know we've been on here for a while, we're on like uh an hour, um, so I'll try to hurry this up.
1:05:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, no, you're fine.
1:05:03
SPEAKER_00: But basically, at some point, um I go out to the river and I tried um crossing it because I know on the other side of the river there is a landing somewhere.
1:05:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, like a like a rafting, uh what it's called, like a boating ramp and stuff, somewhere up the river.
1:05:19
SPEAKER_00: But man, it is so dark out there.
1:05:21
SPEAKER_00: You can see like the spiral arm of the Milky Way, it's beautiful.
1:05:24
SPEAKER_00: Um but uh um I tried crossing the river and I lost my footing and like went under and then got back up because I was I was I was kind of like tiptoeing my way through and I was like, oh, this is also how people die trying to cross rivers.
1:05:37
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:05:37
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
1:05:39
SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, mad props because I have like a old military bag that I took from the Air Force.
1:05:44
SPEAKER_00: I I uh kept a lot of my hair as another story.
1:05:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, but like my cell phone somehow survived getting under the water.
1:05:51
SPEAKER_00: Thank God.
1:05:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so um I you know, as I stumbled back on the shore, I realized that like I can kind of follow the river or the shore.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_00: Flying north up the river.
1:06:01
SPEAKER_00: And so basically at that point, I just started hiking up the river.
1:06:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, it was but but it was so nice because the river was ice cold at that point, and so I went from like the hottest day of the year to like shivering, like my my teeth started chattering because I was in water for so long.
1:06:17
SPEAKER_00: I go up the river, I'm I'm trying to speed this up.
1:06:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I tried crossing the river again, and I got I I got knocked off my feet, and I was like, okay, whatever, I'll keep going up the river.
1:06:26
SPEAKER_00: But at this point, like I swear, um, and I don't know if there's me just hearing forest noises, but I kept hearing something in the trees up on the shoreline, like like off the shoreline.
1:06:35
SPEAKER_00: And I kept thinking, like, am I being followed, you know?
1:06:38
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I can't go back there.
1:06:40
SPEAKER_00: So I I keep going up the river, and at one point, like the shoreline turns into like deep water and like a cliff, kind of.
1:06:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think well, if I keep going north, which there's another campsite supposedly north, if I kept going like miles, um, I'd have to kind of get off the river and like go up into the wood line on this kind of like this cliff thing.
1:07:00
SPEAKER_00: And I was mortified.
1:07:01
SPEAKER_00: I did not want to go in there, I didn't want to go in the woods.
1:07:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, I was I was so scared of going back into the woods.
1:07:07
SPEAKER_00: Um so at this point I just sat and I kind of like stared at the stars for a while and I was like, well, I'm screwed.
1:07:13
SPEAKER_00: And so I thought, um, you know what?
1:07:15
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm I'm I'm dehydrated.
1:07:16
SPEAKER_00: So I just um so I I I I come up with a plan.
1:07:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, well, I could start drinking river water, and that'll give me 45 minutes, maybe an hour before I start crapping my brains out and vomiting.
1:07:26
SPEAKER_00: Um but I start doing that, and it tasted really good and it was super refreshing.
1:07:31
SPEAKER_00: And and then at one point, I'm like sucking in this river water, and I look up and like goose crap like floats right next to me.
1:07:39
SPEAKER_03: Oh man.
1:07:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm done.
1:07:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, no more.
1:07:44
SPEAKER_00: But then I um so then I'm sitting there and I notice that there's kind of like um like a like the little white rapids or whatever, like from hitting some kind of object in the middle of the river.
1:07:52
SPEAKER_00: And so I try to kind of like wait a little closer, and I realized that a tree at some point like floated down the river and got lodged.
1:07:59
SPEAKER_00: And I thought, well, if I'm if I'm ever gonna cross this river, I'm going to get as close as I can to that tree, hold on to it for dear life, because it's halfway.
1:08:07
SPEAKER_00: So if I get to that tree and I just go as, you know, ham on the other side, I'll at least float eventually down the river and get onto the other shoreline.
1:08:16
SPEAKER_00: And I know that if I can hike up the river from there on the other shoreline, I'll get to that boat ramp and I can follow that to a county road and I'll get somewhere of service.
1:08:24
SPEAKER_00: Um and so um basically that's what happened.
1:08:27
SPEAKER_00: I get out to that tree and I just fight for dear life.
1:08:30
SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't really that bad at that point um getting to the other side of the river.
1:08:33
SPEAKER_00: And I remember for the first time night time, first point all night, um, I just felt so much hope, surgeon, because I was finally on the other side of the river.
1:08:42
SPEAKER_00: And basically, after like an hour or two, I hike up that river, and eventually I find that boat ramp.
1:08:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, someone has a lantern up, and I'm yelling, like, hello, I'm lost.
1:08:50
SPEAKER_00: Don't so I climb up the river, or I climb up the riverside.
1:08:57
SPEAKER_00: And um, and um I see like this old school bus, and it looks like hippies live there, and I'm like, oh gosh, I'm on some creep's property, I'm gonna get murdered.
1:09:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, but apparently it was just like I guess like a float trip something.
1:09:09
SPEAKER_00: Um and like the bus took people there because there's no one there.
1:09:12
SPEAKER_00: There's like a like a um a big tent set up, and they had like a bunch of crock pots out, and they had just washed them, like there's there's some so I knock on the bus because there's bunks in it, and I'm like, hello, and I guess I guess they're floating or something.
1:09:25
SPEAKER_00: I don't nobody was there.
1:09:26
SPEAKER_00: So natural.
1:09:29
SPEAKER_00: What what time was this?
1:09:30
SPEAKER_01: What time of night?
1:09:32
SPEAKER_00: I really don't remember.
1:09:33
SPEAKER_00: It's probably around like 11 o'clock or midnight or something.
1:09:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
1:09:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:09:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, but there is an SUV there um with a bus and they're Missouri plates.
1:09:42
SPEAKER_00: Um uh, you know, first thing I look for is a cop and I'm like, looking at the plates.
1:09:46
SPEAKER_00: Um and um nobody's around.
1:09:49
SPEAKER_00: So um naturally I go over to their big cases of water and I just raid them and I start drinking all their water.
1:09:55
SPEAKER_00: Um, but like in my mind, I'm like, I should let them know that I was here.
1:10:00
SPEAKER_00: So I stacked I stacked all their water bottles in the middle of their tent.
1:10:04
SPEAKER_00: So kind of like a like, I guess like a thank you.
1:10:06
SPEAKER_00: Like somebody was here, anyways.
1:10:08
SPEAKER_00: So then I start hiking down the road, and eventually, oh man, I don't know how long, but I hiked for a while until I got service.
1:10:16
SPEAKER_00: I called the local PD and I talked to some old guy named like Dave.
1:10:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, and he wouldn't believe me.
1:10:21
SPEAKER_00: I was like, I got lost in the wilderness, but now I'm on like highway C, C, and A.
1:10:24
SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Well, you can't be in the wilderness because there's a river, and I was like, Across the river.
1:10:28
SPEAKER_00: And he's like, And I was like, no, I'm on high highway A, A, and C.
1:10:33
SPEAKER_00: So, anyways, eventually he sends a deputy out.
1:10:36
SPEAKER_00: The guy picks me up, um, and he drives me back to my car, and it took so uh to explain the geography, basically it was a 45-minute drive back to my car because he had to go all the way around the wilderness all the way back to my car.
1:10:49
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:10:50
SPEAKER_00: Um so then I take I make like a three and a half hour drive home or something like that.
1:10:55
SPEAKER_00: I get home at like 5 30 in the morning.
1:10:58
SPEAKER_00: And and so um I'm I get I pull up to the house and um and I just I'm limping to the door.
1:11:09
SPEAKER_00: I get out my keys and I realize I have the car keys that don't have a house key on it.
1:11:12
SPEAKER_00: Um and my wife has a baby, so I'm like, I'll just sleep on the bench outside the house.
1:11:19
SPEAKER_00: It was a long day.
1:11:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I survived.
1:11:22
SPEAKER_01: That's crazy.
1:11:23
SPEAKER_00: It was a crazy night.
1:11:24
SPEAKER_00: Um so I don't know.
1:11:29
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's there there's so many more things I could talk about.
1:11:32
SPEAKER_00: Like that so there's so many.
1:11:35
SPEAKER_00: If you want to talk do you have any questions?
1:11:37
SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
1:11:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I so I do.
1:11:40
SPEAKER_01: I have I have a couple.
1:11:42
SPEAKER_01: So do you think that you I mean, do you think that you just like kind of were going around?
1:11:48
SPEAKER_01: It just seems like you were going around in a circle.
1:11:51
SPEAKER_01: Did you feel that way?
1:11:53
SPEAKER_01: Or maybe I'm not like you mean like when I was by like the the the coming back to it, right?
1:12:01
unknown: Yeah.
1:12:02
SPEAKER_00: I think I just was going in a circle.
1:12:03
SPEAKER_00: Uh in some way, shape, or form, because I just coming I kept coming back to the same creek over and over again by the cabins.
1:12:10
SPEAKER_00: Um and at that point, um just constantly doing that over and over again.
1:12:13
SPEAKER_00: I like there's no point in me trying to go through the wilderness.
1:12:16
SPEAKER_01: Um I don't know how you didn't just get like so frustrated and like I mean obviously like your adrenaline's going, but like just getting frustrated with not being able to like get past that, like you know, coming back to the same place over and over again.
1:12:30
SPEAKER_01: It just rem it reminds me of Blair Witch when they when they like he throws the map in the water because they're they're frustrated because they just keep go doing the same thing over and over again.
1:12:40
SPEAKER_00: Um so at that point, like um, I try not to always be like, oh well, um ooh-daloop.
1:12:47
SPEAKER_00: So it's you know, you hear that in the military a lot.
1:12:49
SPEAKER_00: It's um and I I'm gonna mess it up.
1:12:51
SPEAKER_00: It's like um observe, it's orient aside act.
1:12:55
SPEAKER_00: Um so basically just I know I'm in survival mode.
1:12:58
SPEAKER_00: So basically, when I I come to a fork in the road, um, or if I come to any kind of obstacle, I have to figure out a plan.
1:13:03
SPEAKER_00: Um so at that point, like my best plan is trying to just go up the river, cross it, because I know there's gonna be a road somewhere over there, and that beats trying to hike 10 miles through the wilderness.
1:13:12
SPEAKER_00: And I know at this point, like I can't get irrational.
1:13:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, I can't get um, I can't do anything stupid, I can't do anything dumb because I have to get home to my family.
1:13:21
SPEAKER_00: Um at that point, I I was in literal survival mode.
1:13:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I can't think of too many other times I'd been in that dire of a situation where um, you know, I have to expect a self-rescue and there's no one coming, you know.
1:13:35
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, um it was a long night.
1:13:39
SPEAKER_01: Um that's unbelievable.
1:13:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's a wild story.
1:13:44
SPEAKER_00: Um the second time, all right, second time I went back, me and my buddies, we tried doing the South Loop, um, which my buddy who I went with was actually a guest on the confessionals with Tony Merkel.
1:13:56
SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
1:13:57
SPEAKER_00: So it's like, hey, we're both into this stuff.
1:13:58
SPEAKER_00: So we went back and we crossed bear tracks, bear scat, and we came across rattlesnakes.
1:14:05
SPEAKER_00: Well, one rattlesnake.
1:14:07
SPEAKER_00: Um and I'm I just it was by the grace of God I made at home because the amount of snakes that we saw, one of which was a rattlesnake.
1:14:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:14:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, we found bear scat, bear footprints.
1:14:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, how did I, crawling through the bush all night, not run into any of these deadly creatures?
1:14:24
SPEAKER_00: Holy cow, you know?
1:14:26
SPEAKER_01: It really feels it really sounds, I don't know, to me, like it it feels like something definitely was protecting you for sure.
1:14:35
SPEAKER_01: You know, because yeah, like and to not I know they always say like if you don't hear like this like the when the forest gets like really silent.
1:14:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:14:45
SPEAKER_01: Um and when you were explaining that kind of like that bird call, yeah, um, that just reminded me of like the Sierra sounds or like I I think that's what um Wes Germer uses in Sasquatch Chronicles.
1:15:00
SPEAKER_01: Like if you listen to his intro, it's like that whooping sort of call.
1:15:06
SPEAKER_00: Um I wouldn't I wouldn't say it was like a whooping call, but I since then I've done you know, I've looked up some specific things and I did see that um you know oftentimes when Sasquatch is trying to um uh communicate low-key.
1:15:21
SPEAKER_00: Um just like fake bird noises.
1:15:23
SPEAKER_00: Um maybe it was that that was the only animal I heard at that time.
1:15:27
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, maybe it was just a bird hanging out really late at night.
1:15:30
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, but it wasn't an owl.
1:15:31
SPEAKER_00: Um I'm a I'm a pretty outdoorsy person, so I can tell the difference between any kind of nightbird and it was in the forest.
1:15:39
SPEAKER_00: Um one thing I will say, um, I've been out there a couple times.
1:15:43
SPEAKER_00: Uh I went the last time I went out was I think last I think I went out there in August.
1:15:50
SPEAKER_00: Um and I went with Chris Bryce, the um good friend of mine, uh host of Camp Roman, which that they're not a podcast anymore.
1:15:57
SPEAKER_00: They've actually um really hired us as well, so I don't think they'll be coming back.
1:16:02
SPEAKER_00: Um but me and Chris, as we're hiking down the road um towards the area where we think back down the trail towards our um campsite is, which is the the dilapidated campsite, because that's where we pulled our boat or my raft up to.
1:16:13
SPEAKER_00: And um then ahead of us in the opposite direction of where we first heard the wood knocks, we hear a higher pitched wood knocking, almost like a chopping sound.
1:16:21
SPEAKER_00: It's it's faster knocks, um, it's a higher pitch, but it's it's more erratic sounding, and it stops, and then we hear the original thud, the deep thud, the same tempo behind us.
1:16:32
SPEAKER_00: And they go back and forth for like 10 minutes.
1:16:34
SPEAKER_00: And me and Chris are just sitting there, mind blown.
1:16:38
SPEAKER_00: Because I I I believe with all my being that those were genuine wood knocks, and they were communicating, I guess, like, hey, here's those troublemakers.
1:16:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, but that was real.
1:16:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, and you can't no one can oh my gosh, convince me otherwise.
1:16:53
SPEAKER_00: Those are genuine wood knocks.
1:16:55
SPEAKER_00: And it was the same mountain, the same hill where I had the weird experience with the rocks and the howl and something paralleling me, which um uh later I found out that paralleling is a really big thing with Bigfoot.
1:17:08
SPEAKER_00: So that was interesting.
1:17:09
SPEAKER_00: Um sorry, go ahead.
1:17:11
SPEAKER_01: No, it is, it's almost like just like I said, from your account, it sounds like it was more of like an escorting, like even though you were scared, it didn't seem like it was just trying to get you out of that area, you know.
1:17:27
SPEAKER_00: So I believe that it's taken me some time to really ruminate on that.
1:17:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, so because some of the experiences I had following that, I don't I don't believe in curses um necessarily on Christians or anything like that.
1:17:39
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm very skeptical of that, but um I mean it's the wrong way to word that.
1:17:45
SPEAKER_00: But basically when I came home, we had the worst luck of our lives for like the following week.
1:17:52
SPEAKER_00: Um I can't remember everything that happened, but we had two cars break down, my son got COVID.
1:17:57
SPEAKER_00: No, no, my wife got COVID, my son had seizures, and then while we were at the hospital with our first son having seizures, my sister's um sorry, my wife, that's weird, my wife's brother um had a seizure and passed out.
1:18:12
SPEAKER_00: Now he has cerebral palsy, but he ended up passing out and having to be hospitalized um right in front of our children um because our parents were watching the other kids.
1:18:22
SPEAKER_00: We had every bad thing possible happen.
1:18:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, and my first thought uh was like, did I get a hitchhiker while I was out there?
1:18:30
SPEAKER_00: Are you you um yeah hitchhiker?
1:18:33
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, for those who don't know, um people refer to that.
1:18:37
SPEAKER_00: And and I've heard this in UFO situations or just any kind of other paranormal situations.
1:18:41
SPEAKER_00: When you're around something that's paranormal, um, whether invited or not, sometimes it will follow you.
1:18:47
SPEAKER_00: Um now, so I talked to one person about that and they're Catholic, and they're like, oh, you committed a mortal sin.
1:18:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, I do not believe that.
1:18:53
SPEAKER_00: I believe I'm washed in the blood of Jesus Christ, and um no matter no matter what, I cannot be possessed, I cannot have an evil spirit in me.
1:19:00
SPEAKER_00: Um now maybe we can get followed, we can be harassed, but I do not believe that I had uh committed a moral sin that caused any kind of evil entity to come into my heart or something.
1:19:08
SPEAKER_00: Um and that was not traction on Catholics, that was just uh something that he said was doctrinal or something.
1:19:13
SPEAKER_00: Um but uh and I kept thinking about that.
1:19:17
SPEAKER_00: So in and you know, and here's another thing.
1:19:19
SPEAKER_00: I never smelled anything bad that night, which typically, if I was that close to a Sasquatch, I figured I would smell something bad like rotten eggs.
1:19:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's that definitely goes hand in hand, that smell for sure.
1:19:32
SPEAKER_00: I smelled nothing bad that night.
1:19:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I kept wondering to myself the weird howl and growl I heard that night.
1:19:40
SPEAKER_00: Um that's not a Sasquatch noise either.
1:19:44
SPEAKER_00: Now that was a ways off.
1:19:45
SPEAKER_00: That wasn't near where the rocks were or whatever it was that was paralleling me.
1:19:49
SPEAKER_00: Um so I kept trying to think why did I feel like I got like cursed or had so much calamity afterwards?
1:19:54
SPEAKER_00: Um now I don't know how much you research things like dogman.
1:19:58
SPEAKER_00: Um but something that is that does correlate with dogman encounters or activity is really I don't know what it I don't know how to word it, but like bad luck or curses, like people will have really bad uh they'll have really bad luck.
1:20:15
SPEAKER_00: And I I'm using that word in like the um nebulous sense, not like I believe in actual like karma and luck and stuff, but right.
1:20:22
SPEAKER_00: You'll just have bad you'll have bad situations following you afterwards, and I can't man, I wish I could remember what this was.
1:20:28
SPEAKER_00: I think I was watching uh documentary from Small Town Monsters.
1:20:32
SPEAKER_00: Do you ever watch their stuff?
1:20:33
SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
1:20:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they're good.
1:20:34
SPEAKER_00: Phenomenal, I love it.
1:20:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, but they someone taught it described a uh a dogman encounter, and they were imitating it, and they made the exact same howl and growl noise that I heard.
1:20:49
SPEAKER_00: And when I heard that, um, I had been kind of thinking like, what if there's I mean I'm really getting out there, but but I've been thinking about this for years.
1:20:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:20:57
SPEAKER_00: What if there's a dogman and a sasquatch in that area?
1:21:00
SPEAKER_00: Because I do believe that there's probably something super weird out there.
1:21:03
SPEAKER_00: I know it's close to the Marley Woods, whatever, whatever that actually is.
1:21:07
SPEAKER_00: I know there is Skinwalker Ranch, which apparently George Norrie from Coast to Coast has had like um special tours down there.
1:21:14
SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, you were saying that.
1:21:16
SPEAKER_01: That's kind of that's kind of cool.
1:21:17
SPEAKER_00: It's in that area.
1:21:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, the Osage Indians lived on that creek or they lived in the caves in that area.
1:21:22
SPEAKER_00: There's a whole town that got wiped out um uh during the war.
1:21:26
SPEAKER_00: It those woods are spooky in one in some way, shape, or form.
1:21:30
SPEAKER_00: And I keep thinking, like, maybe it's maybe it's a fence space, maybe there's a you know, it's a veil space there.
1:21:35
SPEAKER_00: But I've heard but whenever I heard that account, that encounter with the dogman, and they described the exact same noise that I heard.
1:21:43
SPEAKER_00: It was a single howl that turned into a deep guttural growl.
1:21:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then it was right after then, um, not right after, but shortly after that I heard that noise.
1:21:52
SPEAKER_00: That's when something big was paralleling me, and rocks were also being thrown.
1:21:56
SPEAKER_00: Originally the rocks were thrown beforehand too, but I know it sounds weird, but I've I've often wondered af over time, like, what if I was being shielded?
1:22:07
SPEAKER_02: You know?
1:22:08
SPEAKER_00: Um I know I know it sounds really weird, it's really out there, but it's just something I thought about for a long time.
1:22:14
SPEAKER_00: Um because I've I've heard other stories where people were like kind of protected, or um they, you know, if people were encountering they had situations where maybe it was a dog man that like somehow Sasquatch had kind of been in the middle.
1:22:28
SPEAKER_00: Um I know it sounds super weird, but those are just some of my theories.
1:22:32
SPEAKER_01: Um no, it actually, I mean, I've heard the same thing too, and I know that there's a lot of I don't know, I probably should have done more research myself.
1:22:41
SPEAKER_01: Um I'll probably do that on the back end and look into like dogman encounters and bigfoot encounters in that area and see what I can like come up with and let you know.
1:22:51
SPEAKER_01: Because I should be putting it on my own encounter map, because that's the whole point of the thing.
1:22:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just I'm like really like lazy with it for some reason.
1:22:59
SPEAKER_01: We just we've had a lot like going on in in my house like but like um no, that when you tell the story, that's kind of what I got a sense of was that that whatever that entity was, and I'm just gonna call it an entity for you know, because we don't we don't really know what it was.
1:23:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:23:18
SPEAKER_00: I never saw anything.
1:23:20
SPEAKER_01: Um so I mean that's not to discount it, but it's just like you know, maybe just for the sake of just saying like whatever that was, there was definitely it seems like you're like a covering energy trying to get you out of there, and then um whatever that growl was, you know, that it wasn't a dog, it wasn't it I don't think there's wolves in the area, but it does it was not a coyote.
1:23:47
SPEAKER_00: Um the weird thing is is the next two times I was out there, I heard coyotes all night.
1:23:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, I did not hear a single coyote that night either.
1:23:55
SPEAKER_00: And coyotes don't make howls like that, or and then they're turned into real guttural growls either.
1:24:01
SPEAKER_00: Um it was such a crazy night, and I think caught them alive.
1:24:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, let alone the weird paranormal encounter.
1:24:10
SPEAKER_00: The fact that I got out of the wilderness, um, I didn't I didn't dehydrate and die.
1:24:14
SPEAKER_00: I didn't get lost and get bit by a um a rattlesnake, which it wasn't until I went back the second time I didn't know we had rattlesnakes in Missouri.
1:24:21
SPEAKER_00: Um and uh the fact that I didn't drown in the river, um man, just thank God.
1:24:28
SPEAKER_00: Um wow.
1:24:30
SPEAKER_01: Um have you talked to anybody like really like have you talked to like a pastor or anything to try to process this?
1:24:37
SPEAKER_01: Like any yeah, I mean I've on the spiritual side of it.
1:24:42
SPEAKER_00: I talked to people, like I told my Bible study leader once.
1:24:45
SPEAKER_00: Um I've talked to friends, but uh um no, I don't um I don't think I've really talked to any spiritual leaders in that aspect.
1:24:55
SPEAKER_00: I mean, if people ask, I tell them.
1:24:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, like because it's uh the stories come up a couple times here and there.
1:25:01
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, yeah, I think I had a bigfoot encounter.
1:25:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, but no, I haven't really talked to anyone spiritually about it.
1:25:07
SPEAKER_01: And after the week that you can when you came back, you said you don't you felt like you had a hitchhiker.
1:25:12
SPEAKER_01: Did did that just subside?
1:25:14
SPEAKER_00: Was that something that you I was gonna say after um after that week, it just life went back to normal.
1:25:20
SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
1:25:21
SPEAKER_00: It could have just been a really bad week.
1:25:24
SPEAKER_00: But it was it was the same week that my wife got COVID, my kid all of a sudden had seizures.
1:25:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, we had two cars break down.
1:25:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, my brother-in-law uh had a seizure and had to go to the hospital.
1:25:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, and something else might have happened.
1:25:37
SPEAKER_00: I don't remember, but it was a horrible, horrible week.
1:25:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I kept thinking, like, if I had encountered a dogman, typically really bad luck follows a dogman encounter.
1:25:46
SPEAKER_00: And I don't I don't know why.
1:25:47
SPEAKER_00: You just bad stuff happens.
1:25:49
SPEAKER_00: Um because I remember thinking, like, was it a dogman?
1:25:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, or was that Bigfoot?
1:25:55
SPEAKER_00: And then it took me a while to think, like, maybe it was both.
1:25:57
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
1:25:57
SPEAKER_00: And maybe it was neither.
1:25:58
SPEAKER_00: I don't know what happened that night.
1:26:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it was weird.
1:26:02
SPEAKER_00: It was a very weird encounter.
1:26:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
1:26:06
SPEAKER_00: But when Chris and I went back and we heard the wood knocks, you can't take that from me.
1:26:10
SPEAKER_00: That was Bigfoot.
1:26:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:26:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:26:14
SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
1:26:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, so do you feel, I mean, are you gonna do you feel like it's something that you want to keep exploring, or are you kind of just content with it?
1:26:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:26:23
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
1:26:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know where else I feel like I can go and genuinely have like a weird Bigfoot encounter.
1:26:29
unknown: Right.
1:26:29
SPEAKER_00: And it's just like really cool.
1:26:31
SPEAKER_00: And it's very adventurous, so I like it.
1:26:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:26:35
SPEAKER_01: Um that's awesome.
1:26:38
SPEAKER_00: There's um gosh, I think that kind of sums up that story.
1:26:42
SPEAKER_00: Um nothing else happened weird happened when I after the wood knocks story.
1:26:46
SPEAKER_00: Now um the second time, and then we I can't the stories are way too long.
1:26:50
SPEAKER_01: It's like another hour, but um Yeah, I'll definitely have you come back on and tell another story for sure.
1:26:55
SPEAKER_01: Because I know you have a I know you have a couple.
1:26:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:26:58
SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say, because we might we might have seen the second the second time.
1:27:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm pretty sure we saw orbs.
1:27:03
SPEAKER_00: Um wow.
1:27:04
SPEAKER_00: And then the the second time we tried to go, we there the forest rangers found us out of nowhere, and they were just like, oh, we're doing um, we're doing a forest burn tonight.
1:27:13
SPEAKER_00: You can't come in the forest.
1:27:14
SPEAKER_00: And we're like, that's weird.
1:27:16
SPEAKER_00: Um so we decided just to hike on the Ozak Trail, which is a trail that goes across the whole whole state.
1:27:22
SPEAKER_00: Um and I think it goes through the forest or the wilderness at some point, but we decided just to hike on there.
1:27:28
SPEAKER_00: So we're like 10 miles away.
1:27:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh we never saw any fire, which is weird.
1:27:34
SPEAKER_00: Because out there you can see um like the the glow for a while, but uh um oh no, no.
1:27:40
SPEAKER_00: They're doing a burn, and then they said they were doing fair they were doing aerial hog hunting, and they said it sounds like Vietnam at night.
1:27:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, really weird.
1:27:49
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh, good thing I didn't see any feral hogs out there when I was out there.
1:27:52
SPEAKER_00: We didn't hear a single gunshot all night because we're on the edge of the uh the wilderness, because we're just in the Mark Twain, just in Rhana Wilderness on the Ozark Trail.
1:27:59
SPEAKER_00: It's like A very, very miniature version of the Appalachian Trail.
1:28:02
SPEAKER_00: Um but that night we're we're pretty sure we got to we well, we did get stalked by something.
1:28:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, I guess I won't go into all of it, but it's super weird.
1:28:11
SPEAKER_00: Like somebody was following us on the trail with like a two-legged gate, and then we woke up to people on our campsite like running off, like going through our stuff.
1:28:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, somebody was rattling like a tin can in the middle of the forest.
1:28:21
SPEAKER_00: It was super weird.
1:28:23
SPEAKER_00: Um that's that's a story for another time.
1:28:25
SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, definitely.
1:28:27
SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
1:28:28
SPEAKER_00: Super weird.
1:28:30
SPEAKER_01: Nick, that's crazy.
1:28:32
SPEAKER_00: Dude, I know.
1:28:32
SPEAKER_00: So like that's why I'm addicted to going down there because weird stuff happens and I like it.
1:28:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:28:38
SPEAKER_01: Do you now let me um I don't know.
1:28:40
SPEAKER_01: I kind of want to ask you like, do you feel like led to be like prayed up, or do you take this before the Lord and say, like, hey, is this cool?
1:28:48
SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, or do you feel like it's fine?
1:28:50
SPEAKER_00: I feel like it's fine, but I always I I'm to be like sound braggadocious when I say, but I always pray before I do anything in general.
1:28:57
SPEAKER_02: Sure, yeah.
1:28:59
SPEAKER_00: I I don't think this is me after a long time of um praying and soul searching and researching.
1:29:06
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't think pursuing like Bigfoot, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong in that.
1:29:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, if I was out looking for something like dogman or looking for ghosts, um, I feel like that's something that you probably shouldn't be doing just because of the um like for dogman, there's nothing about dogman that's not evil um or sinister.
1:29:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's never never reports or accounts of good things happening.
1:29:35
SPEAKER_00: Um and so, but with Bigfoot, it's I know it sounds silly, but um, I genuinely feel at peace.
1:29:41
SPEAKER_00: Like there's nothing wrong with it.
1:29:42
SPEAKER_00: I don't need to um like I'm not doing something, I'm not crossing any weird thresholds.
1:29:47
SPEAKER_00: Um but in general I do pray uh before I go do um any kind of you know fun expedition.
1:29:53
SPEAKER_00: Uh but I just feel fine about it.
1:29:55
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, long answer.
1:29:57
SPEAKER_01: No, no, that's I always just I mean, I guess the more that I kind of hear like hear and research myself, like I always wanna I guess that's always my question, you know, especially if you're a believer, you know, how do you how do you feel about that?
1:30:12
SPEAKER_01: Like I mean, I definitely I think it's best to like ask permission instead of having to apologize later, you know, because then you just I've been in situations where I've gotten like a big slap on the hand for things, so yeah, yeah.
1:30:24
SPEAKER_00: No, I mean don't get me wrong, like um, you know, I always pray before I do stuff like that in general, but it's not something where I feel like um like I'm asking God, like, should I be doing that?
1:30:34
SPEAKER_00: You know, but there's I mean there's times though when I have been going to go out there and I just feel like the Lord put on my heart, like don't go this weekend, stay with your family.
1:30:41
SPEAKER_00: And I've just been like, okay, maybe God just wants me to hang out with my family this weekend, you know.
1:30:45
SPEAKER_02: So you know.
1:30:47
SPEAKER_00: Um but uh but yeah, uh that is such a wild story.
1:30:55
SPEAKER_01: Oh it is wild, it really really is.
1:30:58
SPEAKER_00: There's uh I I don't even know, but oh so I have a cousin who lives in Donovan, Missouri.
1:31:03
SPEAKER_00: So that's uh the town that is border that borders the Irish wilderness.
1:31:09
SPEAKER_00: And I text her after this happened and I said, Oh, hey, um, I got lost in your neck of the woods recently, literally.
1:31:17
SPEAKER_00: And she says, Oh, what where were you?
1:31:18
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I was in the Irish wilderness.
1:31:20
SPEAKER_00: And she goes, Oh, we never go there.
1:31:22
SPEAKER_00: Everyone knows it's haunted.
1:31:24
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, What?
1:31:25
unknown: Really?
1:31:26
SPEAKER_00: And she said, her and her sister and mom went hiking there years ago, and they found like a weird altar in the woods, and they never went back.
1:31:33
SPEAKER_00: So then I did some more research online, and there's a book called like Haunted Missouri, and there's a whole chapter dedicated just to um the Irish wilderness.
1:31:42
SPEAKER_01: So wow, yeah.
1:31:44
SPEAKER_01: So it's it's I'm gonna have to like look up just like general stuff about that place because it just seems crazy.
1:31:53
SPEAKER_00: I know, it's wild, and I just stumbled there on accident, really.
1:31:56
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I just a reckless hike, so changed my life.
1:32:00
SPEAKER_00: So pretty cool.
1:32:01
SPEAKER_01: That's really cool.
1:32:03
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for coming on.
1:32:05
SPEAKER_00: No, thank you for having me.
1:32:06
SPEAKER_00: It's been a pleasure.
1:32:08
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for doing my rambling.
1:32:09
SPEAKER_00: I hope you're I hope your viewers can stick with me.
1:32:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm so sorry.
1:32:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's all the caffeine so late at night.
1:32:16
SPEAKER_01: Um you're all jazzed up on the on the on the coffee.
1:32:21
SPEAKER_00: I know, now I'm gonna be like super sleepy at church tomorrow because I stayed up way too late.
1:32:25
SPEAKER_01: I know, yeah, I know.
1:32:26
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm like, oh man, it's like 10 30 here.
1:32:28
SPEAKER_01: But um, I'm an old lady.
1:32:29
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
1:32:30
SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
1:32:30
SPEAKER_01: I'm an old old lady that's gotta go to church tomorrow.
1:32:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, no, but it's just really um it's really just been such a cool experience hearing your story.
1:32:37
SPEAKER_01: I I kind of like to have people on just to like tell their stories instead of like interrupting with a hundred, you know.
1:32:43
SPEAKER_01: If you I find that if you let people just kind of talk and and tell their story, they tell it the way they are, and then they're just gonna all the questions you'll eventually get answered anyway.
1:32:53
SPEAKER_03: So awesome.
1:32:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I thought it was fun, so thank you.
1:32:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um, well, I definitely want to have you back on to hear some more stories.
1:33:02
SPEAKER_01: So we'll have to get that.
1:33:03
SPEAKER_01: Hopefully, it won't take six months, but I know you're busy.
1:33:06
SPEAKER_00: Hopefully not.
1:33:07
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
1:33:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
1:33:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, so this has been great.
1:33:10
SPEAKER_01: Uh so yeah, uh guys, why don't you tell everybody where they can find you and kind of what you're working on?
1:33:16
SPEAKER_01: If it's just your Instagram, just let them know.
1:33:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:33:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, if you go to uh right now on my my Facebook still has my my business name on it, so it's Kevlar Joe's Coffee Company.
1:33:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's the only one out there.
1:33:29
SPEAKER_00: If you Google it, it's the only one that comes up.
1:33:31
SPEAKER_00: And you can also find me on Instagram.
1:33:33
SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm the only coffee core that comes up.
1:33:35
SPEAKER_00: So uh just look up coffee core, and there's some pretty fire coffee memes with metal themes.
1:33:43
SPEAKER_01: So yes, oh they're awesome, they're so good.
1:33:46
SPEAKER_01: Yes, everybody go follow.
1:33:47
SPEAKER_01: Go follow Nick right now.
1:33:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, so guys, thank you so much for listening and remember that the truth is out there, God is with you, and everyone always ends up in the kitchen.
1:33:57
SPEAKER_01: All right, I'm gonna go.com or send us a DM on Instagram.
1:34:55
SPEAKER_01: Until next time, remember the truth is out there.
1:34:59
SPEAKER_01: God is with you, and everyone always ends up in the kitchen.