Latest / LET'S MAKE WAVES with Rana AlBasri Mouawad / Too Humble to Be Found: Why "Letting Your Work Speak for Itself" Stopped Working

Transcript

Too Humble to Be Found: Why "Letting Your Work Speak for Itself" Stopped Working · LET'S MAKE WAVES with Rana AlBasri Mouawad

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to picture something for me.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to picture this founder.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: They've been in business for a few years, for a couple of years or maybe more, and their clients absolutely adore them.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: They have a good business.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: And when we ask the clients about this founder, they don't just say, Oh my god, they're good.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: They say things like, You need to talk to this person, you need to talk to them.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: And you can feel the genuine feeling behind it.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: They really mean it.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Most of the work of this founder comes from referrals, which is great because they're proudly and quietly building their business because it just proves that their work is really good and they're able to get the result.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: But a day comes when they are, let's say, scrolling social media or talking to someone in the industry, and they know about a conference that they probably applied to or they've been attending for a while, they've been eyeing that conference for a while, and they realize or they see that someone else in their field basically, it could be someone who's really good at what they do, or maybe someone who gets a fraction of their results, they have basically secured a speaking gig in that conference.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: And this founder is sitting reading this information or listening to this information and thinking to themselves, honestly, how the heck did this happen?
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then because they are the person that they are, they believe that their work speaks for themselves.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Basically, they might tell themselves, well, it's just I'm not that type of a person, or I'm not that type of a person who shouts from the roofs about myself.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: My work speaks for itself.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: But it is that voice in them that is basically costing them the opportunities that they so much deserve and they so much want for themselves.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: And this is not a flaw in humility.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Humility is not a flaw, it isn't.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: But somewhere along the way, a lot of brilliant people they get confused between being humble and being hidden.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: And they are two different things that we need to discuss and talk about more.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Let's Make Waves.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Rena, and if you're new here, this is a show where we talk about reputation, personal brand, communication for founders, for experts who have already built something real, a great business, but they want the world outside their immediate circle to notice them.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: And today's episode is for the humble people out there, the humble founders, the humble experts who get a little bit uncomfortable when someone says, you know, you should really post this, or oh my god, I didn't know about this, you should really talk about this more.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: And they'd rather deliver than declare their work because they secretly believe that if they just do the work and keep on doing things right, basically the right people will eventually find them.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I have a very big affection for um founders and experts who think like that because I'm I'm not excluded.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: We all go through this feeling and we all go through this mentality that our work will show our brilliance.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: And also partly because I've worked with so many fantastic entrepreneurs, and I totally understand that instinct.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not going to spend the rest of this episode telling you what a lot of things that is out there saying that you should get loud, you should have a hype reel, or you should start calling yourself a visionary, or just put it, believe it, you know, and and just put it out there, and you just need to be loud about it.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: That is not what I'm going to talk about today.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's terrible advice, but I'm going to do something different.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to back up what I'm going to suggest here with research, because that kind of unrealistic bragging and unauthentic bragging could actually backfire uh against you.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: What I will do instead is basically walk you through evidence that actually states things about modesty, about bragging, about that kind of awkward space in the middle of all of this.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I will also give you examples of how to basically not follow your instinct of to just stay quiet, but at the same time to basically think of or consider different ways of you showcasing your brilliance.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll try to give some case studies and I'm gonna give you in the end also some three practical moves that can make you basically this month help you to be more visible about the things that you have achieved without being that cringy person who is just bragging out there and feeling uncomfortable about it.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: So let's start with giving your instincts a little bit of credit because it deserves it, okay?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't believe that it is coming out of nowhere, it's not a personality trait.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's a lot of reasons why we have that instinct of we shouldn't brag or we shouldn't talk about our work in a certain way or we shouldn't put it out there in a certain way.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: So let me start with some research.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: In 2015, there were three researchers, Irene Scopoletti and George Lwinstein and Joachim Vosgero.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure I butchered their names.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, so these three researchers they published a study in the journal Psychological Science with something that I really enjoyed the title, by the way.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: They the title of the research is You Call It Self-exuberance, I call it bragging.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Great title.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, back to the research.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: So they wanted to understand why so many people get this balance between self-promotion and being modest, they get that balance totally wrong.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: And what they found in that research is really interesting.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Basically, they say that when we share our wins, we overestimate how proud and happy the other person will feel for us, and we underestimate how annoyed they might feel from us.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: So we kind of project our own excitement onto them, and because there is this miscalibration between the two, uh, the people who are trying their hardest to make a you know a really good impression, they kind of overdo it, which is exactly what makes them come across as less likable.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this research will say, Great, it confirms it.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm supposed to be humble.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yes, and no.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Let me explain.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: If you have any kind of discomfort that you feel before posting about a big win, it is not because you are insecure.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: So part of that reason of the discomfort is actual actually social intelligence.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: So you've basically noticed, maybe correctly, maybe not, but you've noticed that other people's bragging, it often makes you uncomfortable and you don't want to be that person to other people.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: So the broader part of this research backs this feeling up.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that feeling is not uh unrealistic, it is a true feeling.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: However, psychologists have long found that modest people, although they tend to be more liked than the people who are boastful, however, a very good moderate degree of modesty with some bragging actually tend to earn much more positive experience and feeling and uh result than the regular modest people.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, what does this mean?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: It means that if you were worried that I'm going to tell you that your humility is the problem, don't worry about it.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's not the case.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Your humility, your humbleness is one of the reasons that people who know you and worked with you actually trust you.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: And they've watched you, they've seen you deliver, they they saw you basically underpromise and over-deliver and do great things for them.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: They've gotten the result, which is why most of them refer you and you know, with a lot of conviction in referring you.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: The problem that really that is happening is not in the circle of people who know you.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: What happens is with the people who don't know you.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: So being basically modest with your results, it only works for people that basically get that trust signal once they get the result from you.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it's your existing clients because they simply have context.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: They've seen it, they've had the work.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: But a stranger who is scrolling past your profile, for example, doesn't have the same context.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: So your modesty doesn't read as humility and as being someone who is, you know, very um polite, if I want to use that word, it actually reads basically as nothing to them.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: And this nothingness, I don't know if that's a word, but this nothingness, it's a very hard way for people to take the decision to hire you or to invite you on stage or to quote you in an article or any of that.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: And what usually happens is really interesting because with everything that is going around us, the humble professionals or experts or founders, they kind of realize at some point, wait a minute, we need to do something.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: We all do, right?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: So you basically start looking for a way to share your win without feeling like you're bragging.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: And this comes in this really humble way of saying things, and but you're not really saying it.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let me give you an example.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: You would do something like, I'm really humbled and honored to have been asked to speak at this, you know, at this event or at this conference.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: I still can't believe it.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Or you would put it in a version like a complaint, you know.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: So you would say something like, Um, oh, I'm so exhausted, I've had back-to-back client summits all week.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, why do these events happen in the same month?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you kind of think this is so perfect because I've made the right compromise.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm bragging, but I'm not really bragging.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of complaining and I am sharing the good news, but I'm also signaling that I'm not full of myself, you know?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: And we all do it, we all do it at one point because that's when we realize that something's wrong.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: We need to talk more.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: We're really good at what we're doing, and we just need to say it, but it's just it feels so out of personality, so we kind of package it in one of those ways.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, the research on this kind of framing the brag, it's basically not very kind research.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I was looking around and researching about this, and I found a behavioral scientist called Oval Caesar.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: And this uh behavioral scientist is at the University of North Carolina, and they led a set of nine different studies with colleagues at Harvard, and they've published this study on the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology in 2018.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: So basically, this includes this study, it includes a week-long diary study and also a field experiment.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, what they did first, they confirmed that this humble bragging is everywhere.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody's doing it.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, in one survey of like 646 people, seven in ten people could recall a humble brag that they've heard recently.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Then they tested how people reacted to that humble brag.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: So both of those versions, the fake humble and the complaining one, were less effective.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, they were less effective than actually simply stating the brag outright.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: So for us, the humble braggers, whoever is doing that, they are less liked and seen as less competent, and people were less willing to help them or to give them money.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason behind that why they wouldn't work with them or they give them money is basically they didn't feel that they were sincere.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: So people can smell it as a strategy, and they basically stopped and they didn't feel like this is a message that they would trust.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, what Cesar's advice was, and this is something that she talked to time about the findings, was that if you want to announce something, just own it, just talk about it and just say it to the fullest, because at least you get the credit for being sincere, and sincere is what builds trust, and as you know, trust is a very important foundation when you're building your founder brand or your personal brand.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: And this is what I loved about this study, and I want to pause here for a bit because this is the part that surprises the humble founders that I personally work with, and I was also that person.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: The thing that we thought was safe, that's the safe option of putting it out there, is actually a risky option.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: So when you put it like a plain factual sentence, like I'm speaking at this leadership summit next month, and I'm gonna talk about this topic, and I would love some of you to be there.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Just saying it right straight and right out of the gate, it's far less likely for you to annoy people than a long paragraph um wrapped up with I'm blessed and I'm still pinching myself and I'm humbled and all of that.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: What I love about it is that the plain version honestly respects the reader, it respects your audience, it gives them the information that they can use and they can process, and then they do something about it.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: It is not dressed up with the emotional work and everything that we usually wrap it around the way that we want to talk about our achievement or about our work.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: So the choice is right in front of our face.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just brag loud and you know uncomfortably or stay humble.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's not that black and white, it's basically if you're going to be vague, you're if you're going to be uh you know performative, it is going to be very unsincere and not trustworthy.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're clear, you're going to show as sincere and trustworthy.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: And this kind of sincerity, this is what apparently it turns out where people like us, the humble people, have a very good natural advantage, and we can use that advantage.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it is also important, you know, before we go more in depth about this, that we really sit with that discomfort about bragging that we have and really try to understand where it comes from.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of reason why this kind of discomfort in bragging and talking about our successes or our achievements or the results that we bring to the table.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Why do we have discomfort about it?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm here talking specifically also to women entrepreneurs, because it is very apparent for women in business and women experts that kind of discomfort.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna back it up with research, you know.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: I this is a topic in this episode that I I'm very much passionate about, so I wanted to really back it up by research, so it's not just the fields.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, let me say this: there was a study that I also came across, and this is a study by two economists.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so it's not psychological study, it is, you know, people who love numbers.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so these two economists, uh Christine Exley at Harvard Business School and Jod Kessler at Wharton, and they called this um study, they called it the gender gap in self-promotion.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: The study was published in the Quarterly Journal of Economics in 2022, and they ran this experiment with more than 4,000 adults and over 10,000 school-aged children.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a really big cohort, okay?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the study, when we look closer, basically the participants they basically took a math test and a science test, and then they described how well they did on these tests.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, in one of the studies, the women actually scored slightly higher than the men on average, but when you asked them to describe their performance, their own performance, the women consistently rated themselves less favorably than the men who had performed exactly the same.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: If not, they were better, you know?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the part that is it stayed with me as a woman in business.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: That gap, it did not disappear when the researchers, you know, removed any kind of incentive to promote themselves or when they when they told them that they the results were were similar, if not they were better.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: It didn't.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, the research also showed that these kinds of um feelings and this kind of gap was showing as early as kids in the sixth grade, girls in the sixth grade, and in their data, it showed that self-promotion actually pays better because the more favorably people described themselves and their results and their excellence or their work or their wins, the more likely they were going to be hired and the more actually that they earned.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're a woman listening to this and you've always felt like talking about yourself and about your result is something that is unbecoming or impolite or it's not appropriate, please understand that this isn't a personality quirk that you have personally invented.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: It is actually a pattern that shows up from childhood and it has a very clear cost that goes, you know, across the board into our adult life.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to say this as a woman who comes, I personally come from a culture where bragging is actually not just inappropriate, but it's like ill-mannered.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: People who um brag about themselves are seen in my culture as being rude, being inappropriate, being uh ill-mannered, it doesn't, it shows uh if I can put it that way, that it doesn't come from a good upbringing and any of that.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: So this is the thing, it's not just a gender issue, culture also plays a huge role.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: And as a person who've worked in the Middle East and I've worked in Africa, and then I compare it to now working in North America, the rules of how you're allowed to say what you want to talk about yourself, they change dramatically depending on the room that you're in.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, in some cultures, talking about your achievement is considered as confident and normal, and in other cultures, it's like you're immediately seen as arrogant, and the respectable thing is to basically wait for someone else to mention it, not for you to mention it yourself, or at least to package it in a way that is seen as you are talking about your work, but it's um but you're saying it factually, and now this is this is true.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: There has to be some kind of understanding of how well are you able to read the room, and this is something that I talk about um and I actually help when I do the assessment with my clients, and then you can you can have access to that assessment.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh basically based on the trust method, and one of the pillars of my trust method is understanding, which is really about reading the room, so being humble in a culture that values humanity.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Is really smart.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you should do that.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: However, being humble, the same way on a global platform, like let's say social media, this is where you know strangers are there, they don't have context of your your uh work and your quietness and and all of that, then it reads differently and it becomes a not the right decision if you want.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it you it basically deserves for you to kind of change based on the you know the place that you are in.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you're kind of reading the room properly instead of just going straight away to the default.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a question in that assessment, and this assessment is part of Brand Beyond Social Workbook.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that I basically ask you to list the results that you've achieved that you aren't talking about, and then to take the reason why.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because one of the options that I that I put out there, it's basically one of the options was it feels like bragging.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: So the follow-up questions for that, it asks you the reason.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: Is it true?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: That actual reason that you feel like it's bragging, is it true?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Or whether that you're just basically holding back.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a small question, but it basically, if you sit with it honestly, it tells you a lot about how much your silence is a strategy that is not taking you further away from that inner circle of clients and how much this particular habit is costing you as a business owner.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna leave a link to Brand Beyond Social in the show notes if you wanna check out and do the self-assessment.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: But um, I want to segue from this and I want to give an example that is from pop culture.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I I I personally really like that example, and this is called the wingman effect.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the um the best examples is by Keanu Reeves, the famous actor.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: I really think that he is one of the best case studies to to put it here and to show you how a personal brand out there can be perceived as humble, but yet the bragging happens through the wingman effect.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: I I'll explain it.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, back in October 2021, when Keanu Reeves finished filming the John Wick chapter 4 movie, he took four of the stuntmen, the performers that were helping him in that movie, he took them out for dinner in Paris and he gave each one of them a watch.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: He gave them a Rolex submariner, and the back of it it was there was an engraved thing that said the John Wick 5.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: And he also gave them a personal thank you note, and he also gave them a t-shirt, the stunt team, they all had t-shirts that showed that you know, the the thing that was written on them was how many times each of them basically died on screen during the shoot.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that was his way of thanking them for uh you know for making this movie and basically being part of the team, and and you know, thanks to them, he it is also part of the success of the movie and for his career.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the thing that I I brought this up because this is what I want you to notice with me.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: None of this I've read it, none of it was because Keanu Reeves or anybody from his team posted about it.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: There was no press release, there was no photo of him handing over these gifts, or there was no um material out there by him or anybody from his publicity team talking about it.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: I basically got this and I found this uh on the internet because one of the stuntmen shared the watch and shared all of this experience on his Instagram and called it the best rap gift ever.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it was from there that you know, after the stuntman shared it, it went all around the world.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the pattern that we see with Keanu Reeves.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not just this particular incident, but we see it from you know, from crew members, we see it from fans who film him and talk about him on the subway, we see it, you know, the the person who is like standing next to him in a queue somewhere.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is his reputation.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: He is one of the warmest uh actors, famous actors in Hollywood, and it was built, this reputation was built entirely, not just by his performance and his work, but also by other people telling stories about him.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: And this, I'm saying the story, it's not just a nice anecdote that I wanted to share with you, but I'm specifically sharing this from Pop Culture because everybody can relate to this, because this is a great example of third-party validation, and there's also a research to back this wingman effect, you know.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: In 2006, Jeffrey Pfeiffer at Stanford and Robert uh Cial Cialdini, I hope I'm butchering everybody's name today, basically they published a paper on what they called self-promotion dilemma.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, this dilemma basically, the dilemma is really simple.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: You need people to know that you are competent, you are brilliant, you are amazing, but the act of telling them that yourself makes them less like you or make them uh you know make you uncomfortable and you're you know, it might make the other people uncomfortable.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: And what they found is that when a third party sings your praise and talks about you, even if it comes from someone that you pay, like let's say in celebrities culture, it's the agent who's basically being paid to promote you, the audience will view you as you know, in a favorable way, and they're more willing to connect with you and to um to help you and to talk about you.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: So the praise didn't change who you are, it's basically where did the praise come?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the point that I want to get across.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: If you remember the study, the humble bragging study from Cesar, her advice was exactly the same.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: The best thing that can happen to you is for someone else to also brag on your behalf.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, this is the reframe that I want to leave you with when it comes to this part of the of this episode.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: A humble brand isn't a quiet brand.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: A humble brand is one where you talk about your work straight off and you talk about your ideas, and also other people talk about you.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: And this is something that is really important, which is the um third-party validation.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's also in the brand beyond social.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: You will find it in the fifth pillar of the trust method, it's the testimony, and it's the pillar for the you know, the humble founders that we are.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: This is what most of us are sitting on evidence without realizing that we're basically sitting on it and not doing anything about it.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: So we have glowing messages in our WhatsApp, we have thank you emails, we have um people who have left great comments, but we don't really share it.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we probably have clients who are more than happy to record a video that talks about how we help them, but all of this is invisible.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: So to a stranger who doesn't see any of that, they we are basically asking them to trust us on a whim.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to show you why all of this matters so much, specifically for people in our position, in your position, the person who is trusted when they are when we are up and close with a person but who is unknown further away in our in our circle.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: So there was this Nielsen's trust and advertising study, and it surveyed 40,000 consumers around the world in 2021, and it found that 88% of people trust recommendations from people then that they know more than any other channel.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that numbers explain why your business so far is doing great, because your referrals convert beautifully.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody who works with you, trusts you, they told a friend, they told a colleague, they told someone, and they said you need to work with this person, and the trust transferred almost instantly.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: But I want you also to look at the limitation of that, because there is limitation to building that way.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: People who know you is a limitation because word of mouth can travel and it can travel fast, but it also has a ceiling in a certain way, depending on your business, but it does have a ceiling because a lot of uh established founders they hit that ceiling at one point in their uh entrepreneurial journey.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: The referral network is very loyal, but it's also a network that is finite, it has um it has a limitation.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: And the people who book, you know, keynote speakers and journalists who are looking for experts to quote or to interview the bigger clients that are already out there, they're not part of that circle.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: So there is a limitation to word of mouth that you can reach some of them through word of mouth, but if you want to grow and if you want to scale your offers, then there has to be something else that needs to give.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: And the hopeful part is that in 2025, B2B Thought Leadership Impact, it's a report by Edelman and LinkedIn.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: They have surveyed 2,000 professionals involved in buying decisions, more than half of those decision makers, so 53%, they said that when a company's thought leader is really strong and the thought leadership is really strong, the brand recognition matters less to them when it comes to decision making of working.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: So the reports basically conclude that a good thought leadership can actually level the playing field, even inspire those buyers to champion the less familiar vendor, for example, or the less familiar consultant or coach at the moment of the decision making of the purchase.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: So when these respondents were asked what really mattered to them most, it was really very clear in their response.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: Basically, being recognized as a leading expert in that field came to them as 74% in terms of importance to them.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: And also showing real understanding of their specific challenge also came up at 85%.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: So this is really encouraging information because none of those things, if you look at those numbers, none of those things for us, the humble experts, none of them require us to be loud the way social media puts it.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: They basically require us to be visible in our thinking.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: So the decision maker doesn't need you to tell them that you're brilliant and everything in a loud way, but it's basically to showcase your thinking, to showcase your understanding, and to show the results that you have quantified and have the opportunity for others to talk on your behalf.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: That is what you know tips the scales when it comes to decision making at that time on a B2B level for these decision makers.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: So this is great research that supports us and thinking in different ways when it comes to talking about our work and to kind of be strategic in terms of the way that we brag about our work and our results.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: I want to put this in a practical way.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to share with you three things that you can start doing this month that can build your reputation without asking you to become someone that you're not, without asking you to uh brag in this really loud way that is happening on social media.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I'm gonna first start with the first move.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: So the first move is to replace any adjective that you use usually with evidence.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: What do I mean about that?
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: So adjectives is where the humble experts usually get stuck.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: So words like passionate, award-winning, results driven, they feel like bragging, but when you write it about yourself, honestly, it doesn't give the same persuasion power that you think it does, because everybody's using these words, everybody's passionate, everybody's award-winning, you know, uh, everybody's results driven.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, this is where we are.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: However, evidence is different.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: Evidence is a sentence that says, This is what happened, and this is who it happened for, and this is what changed.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: So if we want to compare it, we can see things like I'm passionate about helping family businesses grow.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that is just a vague brag about really what you do, and everybody's using it.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: However, when you reframe it into evidence, last year I worked with third-generation family businesses, they had never hired from outside the family, and we rebuilt their leadership structure so that the founder can step back for the first time in 30 years.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: That sentence, it does not contain a single boastful word of I did this or I did that in a way that makes you feel uncomfortable.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: However, it is a convincing, convincing statement.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: It is just different because it is not marketing, it is evidence.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, for all of you humble experts and founders, and especially women founders out there, that you're usually using those kind of wordings, I am sure that you are going to be comfortable with evidence because it is simply the truth, and you're saying the truth plainly and simply.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you can put this into action this month.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: If you want a starting point, just sit down and list five specific results that you've delivered and that you've never talked about publicly.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: And in that particular list, those five lists, you can have like a month of content.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a great first move.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: The second move is basically to teach instead of telling.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't want it to be mixed up with like educational content.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: Let me let me explain it a little bit further.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: So you don't have to announce that you're an expert and watch me and look at me in that very uncomfortable way and in that really loud way.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: But you can share the mistake that you see with clients, you see it over and over again.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: You share the decision that you would make differently from the typical popular advice that is out there.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: You share the question that you always ask in the first meeting with your clients, and you share why do you do that?
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so these are the four things that you can put together because these four questions can really put you in a position where you are building the thought leadership, you are doing educational content, and you are doing bragging without you feel sleazy about bragging or it's not hum, you know, it's not put in a format where it's too humble that it feels insincere.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: So if you want to put this to the test, it's a very, very simple test.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you write something, just look at it.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: Could someone with six months of experience access to AI have written that material?
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: If the answer is a yes, then the material that you've written doesn't answer the four questions that I talked about, but it's just being familiar and being just like somebody else, and it doesn't show your expertise.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: If the answer is no, then that's great because it means that you've put together material that is full of judgment, it's full of uh expertise that only come from either years of experience or uh that comes from doing the actual work.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: So you're showing your substance, you're showing your expertise, you're not just claiming it.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that is precisely what the decision makers and the Edelman and LinkedIn research talked about.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: You're basically this is the kind of material that they are looking for and that they are interested in.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: And the third move is to build your wingman system.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: So remember the Keanu Reeves uh example.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this is the wingman system.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: So your job is to make it so easy for other people to talk about you.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: How do you do that, right?
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: It starts basically with asking for testimonials in such a way that actually produces something that is useful for you to use.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, no more after finishing a project saying, Hey, can you just leave me a review or do you have any feedback?
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: But actually to send a questionnaire that has really um the type of questions where people, when they answer them, they give you material that you can use that shows the transformation.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: And questions that give depth are questions such as, what was your biggest challenge before we worked together?
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: What specific results did you get after we were working together, specific to you as my client?
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: And who would you recommend this to?
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: Who would be suitable for exactly the same thing that you know?
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because just by answering these questions, and there's more questions that you can put in there, but just by answering these, you actually start getting uh testimonials that tell a story, and you start getting testimonials that are believable.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: Then you take that proof out of the folder, out of the screenshots, out of everywhere, and you share it where the decisions are being made.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: So you share it in your LinkedIn profile, you share it on social media, whatever that platform is.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: You you put it on your website, you put it on your speaker page, you put it as a you know, as a slide in a proposal that you are sending.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if your client posts something and talks about you, share that.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: Add something like a thank you to it, but share it and amplify their words because it's their words, they're not yours.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say something else to that point.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think it is also important to give what you receive.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, from your end, as the expert, recommend other people generously, just like you would want other people to generously recommend you.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: Introduce them, credit them publicly, because this is what reputation and personal brands are built on.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: They're built on networks, and people will champion others who tend to champion them.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, this is also something that that you also do.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's like give what you what you want to get.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I just want to make make it clear: none of those moves require you to shout in the way that is so loud and uncomfortable that is happening on social media right now.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: These moves basically require you to be specific and to be generous and to honestly be brave about basically letting your work be seen by people who haven't met you yet, who haven't worked with you yet.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because people who've worked with you, they know you.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: So you want to be brave about being seen by people who don't know you yet.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I know there was a lot to unpack in this, but I really, as I said before, I'm really passionate about this topic because I think that especially for women entrepreneurs and experts, this is something that we really need to discuss and talk about and highlight more.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the research basically prove it.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I I want to bring it all back to the example that I opened uh in the beginning of this of this episode, back to that founder who was scrolling or talking to someone and wondering why someone else who could be great or maybe they don't have the same results as she has, but why would they get the stages and why you know she didn't?
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: And the honest answer to that that founder is that the other person most probably is very good.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: At basically showcasing their thinking and showcasing the proof and being visible in front of the people who do not know them.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay?
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: While this founder sadly is basically waiting to uh basically her work to speak for itself, and work does speak for itself, but it doesn't speak loudly enough, and unfortunately, it doesn't travel fast enough.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: And people who speak about the work are people who get heard and seen much beyond their circle.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, this is something that is uh maybe could be embedded in culture, like my culture, for example, or it could be something that is embedded in the way society, uh, you know, all the messages that are out there, uh, especially for women.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, society also plays, you know, plays a very big role that we cannot deny.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: But it is important that to understand that our humility, it's not a thing that is basically standing in our way.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: If anything, it is actually an asset.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: I truly believe that because there is sincerity and the research proves it.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: People who are sincere are the people who are who get trusted.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, what is really standing in our way is that there is basically the evidence, the evidence of how good that you are is basically stuck.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: That evidence is stuck in an inner circle, and the strangers who are not inside the inner inner circle do not see that evidence, and therefore they don't hire you, they don't invite you to speak, they don't write about you because they simply have no way of seeing you.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, if you want to find out exactly where that gap is, my biggest thing is to do an assessment.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: So you need to understand: is it your positioning?
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: Is it the proof that you have?
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: Is it that you're not able to read the rooms properly?
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: Or is it a strategy in the way that you share, or in the um places that you share it?
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: What exactly is the the things that is holding back your reputation from going beyond your inner circle?
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, an assessment is always a great place to start, and if you want to do an assessment, this is where Brand Beyond Social is perfect for you because it is a masterclass that takes you through the process as well as a self-assessment workbook where you can just sit down in one sitting, you can come out with basically on the other side with really identifying which part of your work is working and which part of it is basically not, and what is the problem, and what do you do after that?
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I will leave the uh links to Brand Beyond Social in the show notes.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: You can check it out and you can get it there.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: And if this episode made you think about someone, um, maybe a friend, maybe a colleague who is really brilliant and beloved by her clients, but absolutely and completely invisible to people outside the circle.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: Please send this and share this episode with her.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: Consider it your first step act of being someone else's wingman or wingwoman.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you so much for your time and for listening to this.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: I do hope that you share this episode and you subscribe.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: I will see you next week.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget to keep making waves.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: Bye for now.