Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #181: Rosalind Joseph-The Ohio State University

Transcript

#181: Rosalind Joseph-The Ohio State University · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

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  Welcome to season 3 of gila politics connection podcast.
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  See what today's guest has in store for us.
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  Welcome back to the Gila headaches.
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  Connections podcast. I'm so humbled to be your host
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  Mike Cunningham here national sales manager for Gil,
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  Athletics. Hey, real quick, if this is your
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  first time listening, thanks for being here.
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  You picked a good one. By the way to make it, your
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  first one, we're going to have a lot of fun today if this is your
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  second third 20th 100th, you know, this is 181 episode and I
• 1:03
  know someone's listen to every one of them out there.
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  Thanks for coming back. You know where you're just
• 1:08
  always honored and blessed to uplift and Are the journeys of
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  the track coaches that choose to be on the podcast here.
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  And so, just always thankful for returning listeners, just coming
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  back and give it another try. Because remember, these are not
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  easy podcast to listen to. These are our hour and a half
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  two hours. I think today's guest and I are
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  going to go about five hours, so just Buckle them, it's getting
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  ready. And before I introduce today's
• 1:30
  guests and already know who she is and how fantastic she hasn't.
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  How much fun we're going to have today.
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  Just want to give a quick announcement.
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  This is we just announced this So at u.s. tfcc a this year it's
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  in Denver, we're going to do something crazy.
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  We just announced this on Monday night from 5:00 to 7:00 p.m.
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  Denver tie. We're going to do we're going to
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  take the show on the road. We're going to do a live
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  to turn out this could be an absolute disaster or it might be
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  the world's greatest thing in the whole world but we're going
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  to stream live on YouTube live. So if you want the link hit me
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  up on Twitter at my Cunningham I'll send you over the link.
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  For if you're not going to be in Denver, and if you're going to
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  be in Denver, I want you on the show, we're going to do five,
• 2:15
  ish 5-10 minute interviews with just as many coaches, just
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  continuously. Just having some fun, obviously
• 2:21
  won't get as in-depth as we're going to get today, but would
• 2:23
  love to have you out there. So Monday, December 12th at the
• 2:26
  UST. F.c.c., a convention, Monday
• 2:29
  night, 527, live, taping of the show.
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  Okay, that's enough of us. Let's get to today's guest.
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  I am super pumped to welcome the director of track and field for
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  the Ohio State University, help me, welcome the wise, the
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  wonderful Miss Rosalind Joseph, Russell and how are you?
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  I'm well, how about you? Well, you hung in through the
• 2:48
  entire intro, I'm very happy and proud of you.
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  That was a, that was a tough one to get their thank you.
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  No problem. No problem at all.
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  I am super excited to have you here.
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  Roslin for several reasons. One is I kind of think of you as
• 3:03
  the extension of a former guests that we've had because she was
• 3:07
  your coach in college and now you have Don't say taken over.
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  You have proceeded. What?
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  Post seated. How don't know what you'd say
• 3:15
  there? You have a better education.
• 3:16
  I do. Yeah, I don't know what we read.
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  You succeeded, succeeded, there you go.
• 3:21
  I went to school in Alabama, Roslin.
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  So I'm gonna need your help. We were honored back in episode
• 3:31
  89. So if you haven't listened to
• 3:32
  this, go back and take a listen here, would have Karen Dennis.
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  Who was at that time, the director of track and field for
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  the you Iowa State University and really to this day, and I
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  said, today's episode Roslyn, your number 181.
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  That's, that's a lie that's awful.
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  And each one has touched me and changed me in a lot of different
• 3:53
  ways. And the same going to our
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  listeners. I mean, we had so much feedback
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  with people like Brooks Johnson. George Williams, boo
• 4:01
  schexnayder. But Karen, Dennis, and I'm going
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  to get your take as we go through.
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  You were under her tutelage, as an athlete.
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  As an assistant coach. But she really she hit me with
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  still one of the most memorable things that happened on this
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  podcast. We were going through her
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  journey and we are talking about transitioning from UNLV to Ohio
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  State. And as, you know, now Rosalind,
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  there are no preset questions, she had no idea what I'm going
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  to ask, how I'm going to ask it cetera.
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  And I say, I loved up, what I thought was a pretty soft ball
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  question, I said, Karen, so why did you move my?
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  Did you go from UNLV? She to Ohio State thinking, like
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  I said, softball right like, well it's the Ohio State's, one
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  of the preeminent institutions. She's from Michigan.
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  So it's getting closer back to home.
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  I thought this was just a real soft ball question.
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  And she looks at me and she says well Mike I was fired and I was
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  like, I was like wow, I was like it in the reason it hit me was
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  because she didn't have to say that.
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  There's no you get to tell your story.
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  So she could easily have just did the softball thing and said,
• 5:08
  yeah, well like home. And I'll stay but and I you know
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  I think if you watch the video you can visibly see me like it
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  hits me and I was like, you know?
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  Yeah but you did not have to say that why you tell me more about
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  that and she's like well you know it might get some important
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  for people to know that bad things can happen to you that
• 5:27
  are outside of your control but things can still progress
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  forward positively and paraphrasing their little.
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  She said it much better than I did but it really was just like
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  wow what a what a humble. Authentic open person and I just
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  it was at that moment I was like, golly, you know, I was
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  never a college athlete, but if I were that's the kind of
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  leader, why don't you want to run for?
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  I want to be under. So normally I start out with you
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  know talking about we're coaching became a thing for you.
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  Like when you actually switch from something that's done to
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  you to like oh wow this could actually be my career, I
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  actually kind of want to open up you know Karen recently retired
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  and I'm so happy. You know I would love to keep
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  her In the profession forever. But I'm always happy when people
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  are able to retire because you deserve it.
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  I actually want to open up with you as an athlete at Ohio, State
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  University and Karen being one of your coaches there.
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  What was it like for really being coached by a living legend
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  at that point? I'm not sure it reflected as a
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  18, 19, 20 year old for you. But as you gained understanding,
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  what was that like to be to work as an athlete with Karen?
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  Dennis. Well, so it's fun.
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  Because I get that question a lot, but I actually do your
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  point. I didn't know a lot about Karen
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  coming in and at the time you just you are you don't know what
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  you don't know. You know, you're 18, 19, 20,
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  you're going through the motion. But what I can say is that so I
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  actually had the benefit if you will of being recruited by
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  another woman coach is actually who brought me here to the Ohio
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  State University. So Karen, Dennis came in and my
• 7:09
  Off more year and so that transition for me was not
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  abnormal because when they talk about black women in track and
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  field that, that's, that's who I am, that's who recruited me.
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  And so the transition coming in, it really didn't seem like it
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  was something that was as big as it is.
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  Now, you know, I understand now, just where she was able to go
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  the impact that she made, but at the time, it was, it was every
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  day. His everyday thing.
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  Yeah, and I think that's almost what is unfortunate about it
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  because it's not until I got in the profession that I realized,
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  you know, the impact that I had, in my experiences here with Not
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  Just Karen Dennis, but just the program overall, was not the
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  experience that other people have because I came in under us
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  Rogers, you know, a black male guinea, young, recruited me.
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  Like being, I mean, I had, you know, representation if Well, in
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  the program. And so it just never seemed like
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  something that I should be proud or feel.
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  Like I'll never see this again. I thought everybody's program
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  was that way, but but then I tell people, I actually saw I
• 8:23
  was a jumper because that is what was the Sprint coach and,
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  you know, so we spent say, unfortunately, but we didn't
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  spend a lot of time together. If I'm honest, the first couple
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  years. So, probably most staffs as much
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  as maybe your distance coach hangs out.
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  With the Growers. I mean, you know, of course, I
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  know where there's interaction, but but, you know, track
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  practice to have ruins count in their own Groove and their own
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  Corner sometimes. And so there wasn't a lot of
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  day-to-day interaction with her. And I, and I do feel like,
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  that's what helped me career-wise because I spent a
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  lot of the things that I know. Now, the value that she's giving
• 9:00
  me, I didn't get that or understand that until I came
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  back. And when I came back, I didn't
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  come back for those reasons because I didn't know I didn't,
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  I didn't know anything about Karen.
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  Came back, if I'm being honest to, this is my alma mater and I
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  thought well, this is a great opportunity.
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  And so the things that I learned along the way from her as a
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  young adult men, as a older adult, you know, are the things
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  really LED. I'm learning, you know, they say
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  you got to keep learning. Those are the things that I
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  value, now's the lessons in the later years of his career than I
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  ever got as a student athlete. She was a great coach but it was
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  not something that At that, I even knew at the time.
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  Well, we'll pick up along the journey as that relationship
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  changed from a coach on staff and representation for you as
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  well to an assistant coach and Mentor along the way.
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  Let's take a step back as you went to Ohio State University.
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  What did you go to? What did you think you were
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  going to be? And maybe it was a track coach,
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  you know, sometimes people, they just know they're going to be a
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  track coach. What was the thought going in
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  for education? In a career wise, as an
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  undergrad there. Yes.
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  Oh no. I thought I was going into
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  marketing. I have no reason other than it
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  sounded like something you should say you were going to
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  major in. And so I got into the business
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  school here took my first accounting class and thought
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  that I think I think middle of the semester, I called home with
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  my visor like me we got to figure something else out so it
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  took me probably another year and a half you know?
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  Undecided for a little bit then communication, which I like
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  writing. Speaking part is so ended up in
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  like a persuasive speech class about.
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  No got to figure something else out and so, you know, really the
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  answer your question. I didn't know, you know, and I
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  think that's important really, for student athletes coming in
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  thinking that they need to know their career path.
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  It's not fair to ask, I think of themselves and I enjoyed being
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  able to kind of Take some classes and say, uh, I like
• 11:11
  this, I don't like this. And so ultimately, I ended up
• 11:17
  wanting to be a teacher. So, by the time I got to about
• 11:20
  junior year, the goal was to get a degree.
• 11:23
  So I could open a daycare. That's what I wanted to do and
• 11:28
  teach anywhere between, you know, kindergarten and third
• 11:30
  grade. And so, that's what I left out
• 11:32
  of here, prepared. To do was teach, you know,
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  that's a common theme. Umm, you know again after 180
• 11:42
  interviews here, when I ask that question about what you thought
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  because rarely is the person who's like, oh yeah.
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  You know, when I was in 10th Grade, I knew I wanted to be a
• 11:51
  track coach. It's happened.
• 11:52
  There's definitely some some people that we've had that have
• 11:55
  had that, but most go in to do some kind of service profession.
• 12:02
  Whether it's, you know, teachers is a pretty common one day care
• 12:05
  centers, all the that is centered around helping other
• 12:09
  people, which Which at the end of the day is what we're doing
• 12:11
  is track coaches. We're just doing it in a circle
• 12:14
  for, right? Or down there.
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  Yeah, no, yeah, no, you're right.
• 12:18
  But I'm always curious because I don't know that that's a natural
• 12:22
  attitude for people in what I mean by that is I don't know if
• 12:24
  you're born that way, but I think it's model to you.
• 12:27
  Where did that kind of service leadership service to others?
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  Come from? Was it family?
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  Parents a teacher. You had in high school weird
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  that like, hey, I want to model this that someone else has
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  modeled for me. 100% family. So I come from a family of High
• 12:42
  School coaches, my father's an educator and so you know I am a
• 12:48
  self-proclaimed Daddy's girl. So you know that definitely was
• 12:52
  he started off in Boys and Girls Club and it's kind of like we
• 12:56
  talked about coach's kid. I spent every Saturday at the
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  Boys and Girls Club. I thought that's, you know, I
• 13:01
  thought was the greatest place in the world now that you kind
• 13:04
  of get to know the backstory and and some of the communities that
• 13:07
  boys and girls. Girls club serves, you know, he
• 13:10
  was really just doing it at a fun to have her fun for himself
• 13:15
  during the summer after he was teaching, you know, during the
• 13:18
  school year. And so I just spent my childhood
• 13:21
  around kids. He was a PE teacher around kids
• 13:25
  playing grew up that way. And like I said, he was a coach
• 13:30
  as well, High School coach and so did this was literally my
• 13:34
  life. So of course, of course, when
• 13:37
  you go to college you Val, you're going to do something
• 13:39
  completely and utterly different than your parents.
• 13:46
  I'm going marketing. You know, that sounds complete
• 13:48
  opposite and you're right. I think over the years, you
• 13:53
  know, the aspect that I really enjoyed and and probably what's
• 13:56
  field coaching for me, is that now I started off as being asked
• 14:00
  to work camps and so, you know camps to me is huge.
• 14:04
  It wasn't as 18 year old college kid, I heard I got paid but but
• 14:10
  you know when you get later in and I volunteered for the I was
• 14:14
  volunteer because I just want to do it because I just enjoyed
• 14:19
  seeing you know, some people that you know never even been to
• 14:23
  attract others that were really trying to hone their skill.
• 14:27
  Come out and learn something new and fun for me to see them get
• 14:30
  it. It was fun for me to try to
• 14:32
  explain it and to be honest, which I think most coaches will
• 14:35
  say now, you know, in hindsight it Help me as an athlete because
• 14:41
  you know is one thing someone's telling you something.
• 14:43
  When you can step back and see it, it almost gives you, you
• 14:46
  know, I was like is that what coach has been trying to tell
• 14:48
  me? You know, I is that what I look
• 14:50
  like? And so I think that, you know,
• 14:53
  that just the experience overall, it was comfortable like
• 14:57
  there's a good fit, it was something that I thought, you
• 15:01
  know, it still didn't click that, I was coaching and I was
• 15:05
  working camps. And so I was teaching And and
• 15:09
  upon, you know, getting into education as a major, it was
• 15:12
  like man it'd be perfect if I could find a profession where I
• 15:17
  can still teach, but then stay in track.
• 15:20
  You know, it took me all of a college degree tempted to try
• 15:24
  and figure out. How can I teach and stay in
• 15:27
  track, you know what could I do? And so, you know, I think, I
• 15:33
  think here I am where someone said, you know what you could do
• 15:38
  that. Both is coach, you bring up an
• 15:41
  interesting point about. We send 18 year olds to college
• 15:45
  and they're supposed to have their life figured out, right?
• 15:48
  They're supposed to know what major they're going to do,
• 15:49
  meaning their profession and it's supposed to be all mapped
• 15:52
  out. And, you know, we have something
• 15:54
  that you don't have as 18 year, olds at this point, Our Lives,
• 15:57
  we have perspective, right? We have experience.
• 16:00
  And we go man, 18, I didn't know what I wanted to do.
• 16:03
  Heck for me personally, I didn't find this career until I was 30,
• 16:08
  you know? Oh, I did the I did the coaching
• 16:09
  thing I coach for 10 years and then I did the crazy thing flew
• 16:12
  to Vegas and played poker for a living.
• 16:14
  None of that was the right fit and then I come here and like oh
• 16:17
  wait I want to serve coaches. The well this is the place for
• 16:19
  me so it really is kind of crazy weird that we put 18 year olds
• 16:23
  and these very expensive places, you know colleges and say have
• 16:26
  it figured out by now and it's like, man I haven't I haven't
• 16:29
  tasted and sampled all these different careers and passions.
• 16:32
  How in the world am I supposed to know?
• 16:34
  That's a really good point. So you're doing camps and
• 16:37
  volunteering What are you doing to as you graduate?
• 16:43
  What are you doing with your actual degree or job at that
• 16:45
  point before the first full-time gig and have that come about?
• 16:51
  Yeah, so finish competition and 05 graduated the 106 who had do
• 16:57
  student teaching, so kind of mapped it out that way when I
• 17:00
  was done when eligibility and was gonna go really back home.
• 17:04
  Go to grad school, get my Masters in Education and kind of
• 17:07
  just settling Back home and during that time, actually, so
• 17:12
  John Smith throws coach. Now it'll at Ole Miss was the
• 17:17
  throws coach here at the time. He was my strength coach as well
• 17:22
  and said, hey you know if you think about getting the masses,
• 17:24
  if you think and you still want to compete, you know what, my
• 17:28
  buddies a field event coach down at Auburn.
• 17:31
  They have a G8 position open, you should apply and almost, I
• 17:37
  almost hate them. Or he comes this lets you know
• 17:40
  even at 21 you don't know what you don't know.
• 17:43
  So I'll burn. I remember, I know you flew into
• 17:48
  Atlanta so I thought Auburn was in Atlanta and I thought.
• 17:52
  Yeah, I think though that I could go live in Atlanta for a
• 17:55
  little bit, I'll apply. So I had no clue.
• 17:59
  So apply, you know, have the conversations mayor obviously
• 18:04
  with Ralph's, bride Scott, Richardson was there?
• 18:08
  And then Jerry Clayton, who ultimately is who, you know,
• 18:12
  John Smith was trying to put me in touch with you coaching all
• 18:16
  the field of incident had a triple jump in there.
• 18:19
  Shelly-Ann that, you know, he thought I could could train
• 18:23
  with. And so, you know, I went down
• 18:24
  there to kind of go to school and see it.
• 18:29
  I never wanted to be a professional athlete, if I'm
• 18:31
  being honest. So it really to me was a chance
• 18:35
  to kind of feel that out when I like I went to school So that
• 18:39
  all happened, probably that April or May, you know, they
• 18:44
  granted it to me, almost if Miss Misty acceptance, if you will,
• 18:50
  because I emailed it and I realized back then get 21 year,
• 18:54
  olds didn't. I went to check my email.
• 18:55
  I remember like scrolling through like I should probably
• 18:58
  check this and it was like, congrats and it was all these
• 19:01
  things with deadlines. That was probably three weeks
• 19:04
  behind. So I'm, you know?
• 19:07
  And so now I'm scrambling Calling like sorry.
• 19:11
  I didn't check my email so that I feel.
• 19:14
  Okay, when athletes tell me that now but you know, so ultimately
• 19:18
  was able to still go down there that following that fall to
• 19:22
  start. Well, by the time I got there,
• 19:25
  you know, just kind of going through the paperwork and things
• 19:27
  like that. I really, I really wanted to
• 19:31
  take a year off of school, right?
• 19:32
  So, of course, my dad man is, how are you taking her off and
• 19:35
  never finished? And, you know, I think, I just
• 19:38
  want to To your point I like teaching I was pretty sure
• 19:42
  that's what I wanted to do but I just wanted a year without
• 19:46
  school to try and figure it out and I was going to go to the
• 19:50
  professional athlete route and you know do it while you're
• 19:53
  young and Auburn at the time, only had five full-time coaches.
• 19:59
  They actually had only ever had five full-time coaches with
• 20:03
  Coach Frey and so I was able to be considered not necessarily.
• 20:08
  GA, but an intern coach. So I took because I wasn't that
• 20:12
  I wasn't going to go to grad school.
• 20:14
  I decided I'm not going to grad school.
• 20:16
  I'm just gonna to be honest. I thought I was going to
• 20:19
  volunteer, which in hindsight sounds crazy on the.
• 20:22
  Yeah, this come down there and, you know, figure it out.
• 20:25
  Now, what we have this small stipend for you to be an intern
• 20:30
  coach, but because we only have five coaches, you can do all the
• 20:36
  grunt work that that such as do for a very Little pay and I was
• 20:40
  so thankful. Oh my gosh, this is great.
• 20:43
  Thank you so much everybody. I love.
• 20:45
  Carole logs. Sure.
• 20:47
  I'll pick you up from the airport.
• 20:48
  I mean, I just wanted to, I just wanted to be a part of it and I
• 20:52
  was so appreciative of the opportunity to really be.
• 20:56
  I mean engaged in a program on that aspect and you know, like I
• 21:02
  said coach Brad was great to me Scott Richardson there but then
• 21:06
  Jerry Clayton. I mean he just broke down there.
• 21:08
  Anything from a, you know, here's how you drive your
• 21:10
  itinerary. It's what you say, when you call
• 21:12
  the hotel, to then the training, this is how you write a weight
• 21:16
  room program. These what shoes they should be
• 21:18
  wearing. I mean, stuff that I just you
• 21:21
  know, I'm learning and so when you talk about going to grad
• 21:23
  school, I was learning and every day, you know, I'm there earlier
• 21:27
  like every day was like, all right, you said nine, but I'll
• 21:30
  be there at 8:45. I'll be there at 8:30.
• 21:33
  I was and I was leaving later and, you know, it was never
• 21:37
  asked. So, and I think, I think now we
• 21:40
  have to be careful that I didn't feel like it was the grunt work.
• 21:43
  I just really enjoyed the behind-the-scenes because I
• 21:46
  never knew went on, you know exactly showed up the practice,
• 21:49
  I thought track coaches. I also thought track coaches
• 21:52
  worked from, you know, three to five.
• 21:55
  I just didn't know. And I was so intrigued by the
• 21:58
  profession and, and gracious that they really, they really
• 22:03
  allowed me to do some things and make some mistakes.
• 22:06
  But, you know, just learn something.
• 22:08
  Things as a full time coach on paper.
• 22:13
  So let's pause right there cuz I want to I want to dive into
• 22:15
  that. I think that's a really
• 22:16
  important aspect but I'd be remiss if we didn't get this on
• 22:19
  record here. Roslin so Roslin mentioned.
• 22:22
  She graduated. She finished her eligibility and
• 22:24
  05. Well I coached at Ball State
• 22:26
  University. So not terribly far probably
• 22:29
  about the same distance from Ball State to Ohio State as you
• 22:32
  thought Atlanta to wear real Auburn.
• 22:34
  Yes, but I is it rosin was a A jumper, very good, triple
• 22:39
  jumper. And I had a very good triple
• 22:42
  jumper at Ball State University, and this was a really fun time.
• 22:45
  Kind of in the midwest, Illinois had a couple of good triple
• 22:48
  jumpers actually Roslyn. Had another teammate that was
• 22:50
  really good. Just west of us in Nebraska was
• 22:54
  an excellent. We're talking about, you know,
• 22:56
  like 42 feet in the triple, was a bad day for these ladies.
• 22:59
  It was quite amazing. All the way up to 44 and change.
• 23:02
  It was quite an amazing time. It's back when that was a really
• 23:06
  big Mark, now in the SEC, Seen the big 1044 is like to make a
• 23:10
  final know. It's crazy.
• 23:11
  It's between Rosslyn eyes. I used to Everyday, be a
• 23:18
  practice, try to look rosalyn's, but I talked to my app we like,
• 23:21
  hey, look, man, Ohio State, girls are going to be there, we
• 23:23
  gotta you gotta go for there, you go 43.
• 23:25
  We can't be doing that stuff and I probably talked metric back
• 23:28
  then, like I don't even know metric conversions anymore.
• 23:30
  So it was just a really fun time.
• 23:33
  And what I also remember about this, we didn't talk about this
• 23:36
  problem during our pre-interview was I I do remember all of you
• 23:40
  ladies being so competitive and every meet, you know, whether it
• 23:43
  was, you know, we were in Indianapolis or a Nationals Etc,
• 23:46
  you guys would be going at it. Trying to jump farther and
• 23:48
  farther than the person. But I do remember how cordial
• 23:52
  you guys all were to each other. I remember, you know, and, you
• 23:55
  know, we're at Ball State, or it could be an against the Ohio
• 23:57
  State in Illinois, and all this, but you are all very accepting
• 24:01
  of our athlete at Ball State, you know, being a cardinal and
• 24:05
  you guys probably didn't know where Ball State was, but you're
• 24:07
  like, wow, she's He's a competitor though.
• 24:09
  Like you know so there was a respect and that's I just
• 24:11
  remember it really one of the most fond times this was 0 2.
• 24:16
  No 3. Just some fun times of coaching
• 24:19
  of just rivalries that got after it on the runway and then after
• 24:23
  the competition and and literally the dust settled, it
• 24:26
  was like, hey well, I see you next week, graduate, you got me
• 24:28
  this week but next week we coming after you and see you in
• 24:31
  Arkansas for Nationals and it was just a really fun time.
• 24:34
  So it's actually kind of neat while I didn't know you as an
• 24:37
  undergrad. U.s.
• 24:39
  Rosalind from Ohio State. The athlete is really
• 24:43
  interesting to see your progression and where you are
• 24:46
  today and like, wow, that cuz I think about that now.
• 24:48
  Like if I go to Nationals, I see an athlete, I'm like, yeah, that
• 24:51
  kid could one day be the head coach of UCLA or Texas or
• 24:55
  Washburn is it's just quite amazing, what people go into.
• 24:58
  So I had to get that on on record on wax that we not me,
• 25:03
  you know, my athlete. We used to go at it.
• 25:06
  My athlete holder onto but Rosalind, yeah.
• 25:08
  Yes, yes, usually got the upper hand.
• 25:10
  Yeah, let's not kid each other. Now, back to giving value and
• 25:14
  something super interesting. There, you talked about being a
• 25:17
  coaching in turn, that's super interesting, because I don't
• 25:21
  know that we do that anymore. Now, I do remember before you
• 25:25
  coach, so when I first got into coaching in before that, there
• 25:29
  we used to have something called a restricted earnings coach.
• 25:32
  So I'll kind of a align it to an intern coach.
• 25:38
  You know, coaches, don't get paid anything now, can you
• 25:41
  imagine there was a coach called a restricted earnings coach so
• 25:44
  they they they prob they probably made more than I made
• 25:47
  them. But when I really thought was
• 25:51
  interesting because I like that idea is like I'm really
• 25:54
  intrigued by preparation of Coach meaning, you know, a lot
• 25:58
  of times we do have undergrads that finish up.
• 26:01
  You know, their eligibility in June and they are coaching
• 26:03
  full-time in August and I wonder it's like man as an athlete.
• 26:08
  Eat. And we've had this discussion
• 26:09
  before in the podcast being an athlete is a very selfish
• 26:13
  Pursuit and not in a negative way.
• 26:15
  What I mean by that is when coach is talking to you about
• 26:17
  how to become a better, triple jumper, you are trying to
• 26:20
  internal, okay, how do I take what coach said and become a
• 26:23
  better athlete? You're not thinking about, did
• 26:26
  coach get the buses for this me to think about tells the flights
• 26:31
  that are meal money. Gosh.
• 26:33
  How did this meat? Even get on our schedule, all
• 26:36
  the compliance stuff. There's This other parts of
• 26:39
  coaching that is an athlete. We have very little cognizance
• 26:44
  of and then if you're going into coaching, you're thrown into it.
• 26:49
  And sometimes we have other coaches on the staff that will
• 26:52
  help us along. But a lot of times it's like
• 26:54
  will hear you are throwing into the water won't.
• 26:57
  You can swim you seemed. It was interesting watching your
• 27:01
  face. As you were describing, the
• 27:03
  grunt work that they are quotes their grunt work.
• 27:06
  You seem to kind of enjoyed learning The, you know, pulling
• 27:09
  back the curtain and learning that side of it too.
• 27:11
  Was that something that is that kind of excited.
• 27:14
  You, it did. No it did.
• 27:16
  Because, you know, now I could be and kind of just the backup
• 27:21
  with the being a professional athlete.
• 27:24
  You know, I didn't play, I played some some team sports and
• 27:30
  middle and high school, but everyone calls track and field
• 27:34
  at each individual sport. But I really enjoyed the Mass
• 27:38
  Spec. And that's why being a
• 27:39
  professional athlete. And I'm like, what?
• 27:42
  You know, what uniform am I gonna wear?
• 27:43
  Who am I training Partners? What team are?
• 27:45
  We representing, didn't really intrigued me.
• 27:48
  And so I like the thought though that I could be an integral part
• 27:52
  of this team and do the things that needed to be done for them
• 27:57
  to succeed. That was my role.
• 28:00
  So, you know, in a in a team sport, everybody has their role,
• 28:04
  but in track and field, it seems individual, but on a coaching
• 28:07
  staff, Laughs if I could have my role in that was my role just
• 28:13
  like anything. I wanted to do and I wanted to
• 28:14
  do it well and I want to make sure I was doing it right and I
• 28:17
  wanted to do the best that I could do it.
• 28:20
  Because again it's reflected in to your point the student
• 28:24
  Athletes Performance because you don't think about, you know, the
• 28:28
  buses and the hotels and the per diem as a student-athlete until
• 28:33
  it's not there can't go. And you don't have any money to
• 28:37
  eat and you and You know, it's something that it's like, well,
• 28:42
  if I can just make sure that's not a factor, then then great,
• 28:47
  I'm an integral part of the team.
• 28:49
  And that's it. Did it really intrigued me,
• 28:51
  okay, you keep bringing up with all these great points, Rosalind
• 28:54
  things that just kind of ruminate as I talk to coaches,
• 28:57
  you know, every day, all day, all these, you know, I get every
• 29:00
  aspect I get the, you know, coaching is the world's
• 29:03
  greatest. I make a lot of money support my
• 29:06
  family, too. You know, I can't even get into
• 29:08
  coaching because of whatever reason, right?
• 29:10
  So I always have all these thoughts and stuff like that and
• 29:13
  always here, you know, I'm a big fan you were recently on one of
• 29:16
  my favorite shows. We run it as a bonus show here
• 29:19
  on Thursdays, the Athletics LLC. So I love listening.
• 29:22
  You were just a guest there. So if you haven't heard her, I
• 29:24
  was going on Athletics LLC. Go to YouTube and it will be on
• 29:28
  there by the time you're listening to this.
• 29:29
  Now, it will probably also be on the Gill podcast as a bonus
• 29:33
  episode if you want the audio version.
• 29:35
  But they are always talking about Outgoing pro and college
• 29:42
  kids in the summer. So it's USA's and World Champs
• 29:45
  or Olympics things like that. And I had always had a theory
• 29:49
  and I've never had any. I didn't coach long enough and
• 29:51
  didn't have an athlete good enough to have to worry about
• 29:53
  this. But something you said there,
• 29:55
  I've always thought when, when people see an athlete, I'm use
• 29:59
  the word tank and that's not a great word when they don't do as
• 30:02
  well after the college. So after, instead of plays, when
• 30:05
  they started doing the individual to your point, you
• 30:08
  know, No longer wearing the college, you're wearing, maybe
• 30:11
  nothing, maybe, no kit, right? Depending on your level and they
• 30:15
  don't do as well. And one of the first things we
• 30:18
  go to blame is 0 the college system.
• 30:20
  He or she ran too many times in door, maybe if they're a
• 30:23
  distance Runner, cross-country outdoor, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 30:26
  And I've always wondered the psyche of an individual because
• 30:31
  we do like teams, right? I mean, look at how many people
• 30:33
  will call the Raiders, their team.
• 30:36
  We're going to draft this. It's like you.
• 30:38
  We gotta you gotta cap and a shirt.
• 30:42
  You ain't all know the organization, but we like to be
• 30:45
  in groups, right? So whether that's being a
• 30:48
  buckeye fan, whether that's being a Raiders fan politics,
• 30:54
  you know, we like being in this group of other people that we
• 30:58
  believe are like us when you are no longer having that.
• 31:03
  And now, as a pro, you're only running for yourself until you
• 31:05
  make the Team USA. You're only running for Self.
• 31:08
  I've always wondered. I wonder if psychologically,
• 31:11
  they're just down. It's kind of disgusting
• 31:14
  whatever. Sent its kind of the same to me
• 31:16
  as when you see someone running amazing split on a relay team
• 31:20
  but they can't even come close to that on an open.
• 31:23
  It's like, oh well, that's because they're running for the
• 31:25
  other three people and that in that, in that Jersey, we're when
• 31:29
  they're just an open. It's like, yeah, I'm still
• 31:31
  running for the Jersey but it's just me.
• 31:32
  I got, you know why I say OK, I go home with myself.
• 31:35
  If I fail my other three teammates.
• 31:37
  Oh, That would demonstrate. So it's interesting, you brought
• 31:41
  up that point about like yeah, it really didn't kind of
• 31:43
  interest me to be on that next level because I was like, who am
• 31:46
  I doing this for? Yeah.
• 31:47
  Yeah. And you mentioned that with just
• 31:49
  how we were with other college competitors because we knew we
• 31:53
  knew who we were going to be the compete against the names of the
• 31:56
  people that were there, the college system.
• 32:00
  You know, provided some rankings that you felt like you could
• 32:02
  follow me. And I went from like number five
• 32:05
  in the in the country as a Collegiate alike, Like, we don't
• 32:09
  know, we just ranking by the world.
• 32:11
  So flip a couple Pages hero here and in the back page.
• 32:16
  And and so it can be daunting to feel like, like you said that
• 32:21
  dropping just the everyday competition who you're competing
• 32:25
  for who you're competing with. But then there is, there is the
• 32:29
  day to day. So I mean, as soon as it's like,
• 32:31
  well, you know, depending on your college system, we're going
• 32:34
  here. You might want to go to this
• 32:37
  meat. How you getting there?
• 32:38
  Are those going to enter you where you staying and you're
• 32:42
  thinking what with you coach like?
• 32:45
  I thought you'd do that and and you just you're trying to figure
• 32:50
  out. It's almost like being a college
• 32:52
  freshman. Again you're trying to figure
• 32:54
  out What what, you know what, what you want to do, how you
• 33:01
  want to do it, what's the best way to do it?
• 33:03
  And and I think that's, you know, it's hard to do so.
• 33:07
  See that first year out of college.
• 33:08
  Yeah, I got imagine that's got to be one of the harder years,
• 33:11
  for sure. Yeah.
• 33:12
  So what was it like going from Columbus Ohio?
• 33:16
  Beautiful city gets really cold in the winter, by the way.
• 33:20
  And then you go down, you go to Auburn, which is, you know, not
• 33:24
  even an hour from where I kind of grew up where I went to high
• 33:26
  school and college so I know Auburn very well group, an
• 33:29
  Auburn fan, you know, different foods were more into barbecue.
• 33:33
  You probably never had sweet tea until you got to Auburn the
• 33:35
  accents are different. Expectations are different from
• 33:39
  you. How was that transition going
• 33:40
  down to Auburn University? I loved.
• 33:43
  It was funny. So they had just won the
• 33:47
  National Championship. Oh yeah.
• 33:49
  Women and so I remember like yeah, you know, you can come on
• 33:52
  down and then I remember calling like, you know, Only me, but it
• 33:56
  seems like you all got to figure out how you doing.
• 33:59
  Just fine. You know, you sure that's the
• 34:02
  place I need to be and yeah, you know, get always use, we're good
• 34:05
  help but but, you know, just to be coming off that championship
• 34:13
  and just just the, the energy, the obvious obviously, high
• 34:17
  level program. You know how that's run the
• 34:21
  expectations, that are set how the different coaches did things
• 34:24
  differently from. Um the system I was in.
• 34:26
  So you know, it was it was very different.
• 34:31
  The weather I realized I was not in Atlanta.
• 34:34
  So but how far into the drive from Atlanta to Auburn?
• 34:41
  It's about 20 minutes. Okay, yeah let's go see how far
• 34:44
  your lies like, where's the campus?
• 34:49
  And I remember he picked me up, put my bag in the car and you
• 34:54
  know, Drive. And I thought once you start
• 34:57
  seeing trees, you're like, wait, where are we going?
• 35:00
  You know, I had to, I didn't know him that well then.
• 35:03
  So I'm looking around thinking, you know, am I?
• 35:06
  Okay. And I think, I remember asking
• 35:11
  like how, how long is this drive and not worry about an hour and
• 35:15
  a half about, oh, where we going?
• 35:23
  Okay. And so I feel like I try and do
• 35:27
  better now as a coach you, you kind of know where the for the
• 35:30
  school that I knew their colors, I knew their best.
• 35:33
  Triple jumper. That's right.
• 35:35
  Where are we located? So we forget this people.
• 35:42
  This was this was still before cell phones and GPS and all
• 35:46
  that. So we were still kind of Flying
• 35:48
  Blind so I got been there whenever I didn't print it, I
• 35:50
  didn't I didn't put why I never been right you know This, I knew
• 35:57
  the school name and, you know, maybe ticking for me.
• 36:01
  It's dead Atlanta. I just put two and two together
• 36:03
  but not out of putting, yeah. My math wasn't wasn't very good.
• 36:10
  Well, good thing. You had Scott Richardson cuz
• 36:12
  that's someone. You can't re, you know, now that
• 36:15
  someone you can trust, he was all gonna take care of ya, love
• 36:18
  Scott. Deeply.
• 36:20
  So did this time? How much did this time?
• 36:23
  As an intern coach at Auburn? Solidify.
• 36:25
  The fact of like oh yeah this is what I want to do.
• 36:28
  I want to be a track coach. Yeah, I don't think I was even
• 36:32
  six months in and I'm like, okay, what a, what a, what do I
• 36:35
  what do I need to do to do this? Yeah, and even then I didn't
• 36:40
  realize, you know, going back to earlier when you talk about
• 36:43
  Karen Dennis and I didn't realize that that was would be a
• 36:47
  rarity for me to do because I had seen it.
• 36:50
  And so I just thought, okay, might not be you know, at I'm a
• 36:55
  mother, but I just do it here, you know, just do it somewhere.
• 36:59
  I thought it would be easy to get into.
• 37:02
  I thought that they were not allowed people that wanted to do
• 37:04
  it. And so for me, I'm just like
• 37:07
  well I want to do it so that that's already got to give me a
• 37:13
  up from whoever else says they want to do it.
• 37:16
  I really thought specially because they had had five
• 37:18
  coaches. Those like there's a spot open.
• 37:21
  I just thought that nobody else wanted the job.
• 37:25
  I'd write it here, I am. And so, if I go out they get in
• 37:30
  and never talk pain ever, I just want to do this.
• 37:34
  And again about probably about six months in, it was like, okay
• 37:38
  this is this, this is what I need to do to the point where I
• 37:42
  remember, having a conversation with my dad, you know, and start
• 37:44
  talking about. Okay, this year, I grab school.
• 37:46
  So, next year and I'm like, let's see how this goes.
• 37:51
  If you go to school to get a job and I get a job then, Why, why
• 37:56
  go back? Amen.
• 37:58
  Amen. So, what was that?
• 37:59
  Like, you know, I love the naivety that you had their, I'm
• 38:04
  just like, oh yeah. No one else was to do it.
• 38:06
  I'll do it. I'll get a job anywhere.
• 38:08
  Anytime, you know, that kind of thing in regards to it.
• 38:10
  And you now know the real. Obviously, you know, the real
• 38:13
  truth to that. So what was the, how long were
• 38:16
  you at Auburn? And what was kind of the next
• 38:17
  step for coaching? Yeah.
• 38:20
  So spent two years at Auburn and again, and In in, in the second
• 38:27
  year, you know, again, it was year to year.
• 38:28
  So, when the first year I was in turn, I say, I make 30, I made
• 38:32
  thirteen thousand. Five hundred dollars a year.
• 38:35
  That's what it paid. And so, you know, I ended up
• 38:39
  actually getting married down there, so everyone, it's funny.
• 38:42
  I husband we were actually married in Opelika Alabama.
• 38:44
  Yeah. Is that right?
• 38:49
  And so we were that, by the way, is that that's the eloping
• 38:53
  capital of the world. By the way, if you've never been
• 38:54
  to, okay, No, no. Grabbing, there's only three
• 38:59
  names in that in that record. Look down there.
• 39:01
  Weren't that many people that just heard over like a going,
• 39:04
  where's Opelika? Yeah, beautiful of, like, I
• 39:08
  love. That was your, your husband from
• 39:11
  them there, or back home. So, he's actually from the
• 39:16
  Virgin Islands US Virgin Islands.
• 39:18
  But we met in Columbus, Ohio, you have family here, had moved
• 39:21
  here and so, yes, I meant Columbus.
• 39:24
  I actually use went to Auburn died.
• 39:26
  Well, I'll tell this. Story because it worked out but
• 39:29
  I'm you know, for anybody it was like Hey I'm I got things to
• 39:35
  pursue. So if you're just a boyfriend I
• 39:40
  am going to. Well the time I'm going to
• 39:42
  Atlanta. That's what I thought.
• 39:45
  So, you know, Maybe the work out, maybe it won't long
• 39:49
  distance, but this is where I'm going.
• 39:50
  But, you know, his family, I'd end up moving from here and he
• 39:54
  was like, I'll come too, I'll come to Atlanta to Atlanta the
• 40:01
  home of the Auburn Tigers. Just I tell you exactly where it
• 40:08
  is. Started, he came down but then I
• 40:21
  am, I was like, Hey, another life lessons like hey, where
• 40:25
  were you staying? Because when I married, so you
• 40:30
  any apartment? So I'm pressure him.
• 40:33
  But you know, he's like either were going to do this or not.
• 40:36
  He got to make his own decisions.
• 40:38
  No, it was absolutely proposed. And then actually it just one of
• 40:42
  those things like, I don't know. Well, I think we were both
• 40:45
  making out 13,000 dollars. Realize we can't afford a
• 40:48
  wedding All rights, go to the courthouse, but now we've got,
• 40:54
  you know, got married settled in and just felt like you know I
• 40:59
  would try and work my way really into good.
• 41:03
  Graces with Coach pride and make a little bit more money.
• 41:07
  Yeah, I didn't even know what more money, man.
• 41:09
  I just met. I'm okay.
• 41:11
  Actually, at the time, I was trying to get health insurance
• 41:14
  like that was, you know, if I can do that.
• 41:17
  But so, maybe I shouldn't say that was part of getting married
• 41:21
  to. My husband had it all worked
• 41:24
  out. But, you know, it was definitely
• 41:29
  something where it's like, I'll just settle here and see how we
• 41:33
  can make this full time. So, a year of essentially in
• 41:37
  turn the middle of year to coach Frey did pull me in and said,
• 41:41
  hey, and I've gone to to Administration, told him I want
• 41:44
  to do. I want to add a full Time
• 41:47
  coaching position for you, you know, I don't have all the
• 41:52
  details yet. I don't have an approved yet,
• 41:54
  but I want you to know that I'm I'm working on it.
• 41:56
  So I was very gracious, says probably the maybe beginning of
• 42:02
  the year. Maybe December January.
• 42:06
  So, in my head, I had a job next year.
• 42:09
  I have a job, so I didn't know what it paid.
• 42:11
  I don't know anything about it but I had a job.
• 42:13
  I was excited, you know, hey it's going to be a few more
• 42:17
  months. Fine with me.
• 42:19
  And then I asked you remember going to outdoor Nationals and
• 42:23
  Karen Dennis approach me then. And again, we, we hadn't talked
• 42:29
  since I had been at all, because we weren't, you know, she was at
• 42:34
  my event coach, right? Yeah.
• 42:36
  I'm getting into the proof, but it just wasn't something that we
• 42:42
  knew of each other, right? I mean, I feel like, you know,
• 42:46
  like she had approached me. She didn't have my cell phone
• 42:48
  number that kind of relationship and was like, hey, you're I'm
• 42:54
  going to need a fuel event coach.
• 42:56
  And I remember thinking, you know, we want to give you some
• 42:58
  names, I go to do, you know what he asked me.
• 43:00
  I need you to fly. And so I need you to apply and
• 43:06
  and she approached me because you like and it's closing like
• 43:10
  into this week so do it now. And I'm thinking, I don't even
• 43:16
  have a resume because I God burn thing out of GA.
• 43:19
  So I had like test scores I can send you but I don't really I
• 43:23
  just know. I had a job.
• 43:25
  I just and it really took me trying to, you know, you know,
• 43:30
  I'm calling thinking. Why would I leave?
• 43:33
  You know, you know, Auburn and and the staff had been great to
• 43:37
  me. I went ahead and I did apply.
• 43:40
  I don't know if I should tell her that I was in the hotel
• 43:43
  lobby making a resume. So I do try and tell student
• 43:46
  athletes just I have one just, you never know, but I really was
• 43:52
  conflicted about leaving because, you know, I've been was
• 43:54
  great. To me, coach Frey was great to
• 43:56
  me to staff. There is great to me and I had a
• 43:59
  guarantee, if you will. And so even the thought of
• 44:01
  coming back home, I just you know.
• 44:05
  So that that part would be uncertainty is like, but I am
• 44:08
  finally getting it going here. What happens if I go somewhere
• 44:12
  else? And so and sometimes Karen tells
• 44:16
  a story. And it's funny.
• 44:17
  So I applied, I did it, I came up for an interview, she offered
• 44:24
  me the position and I told her no and See I think I think we
• 44:32
  hung up and then she called me, right back or there was like a
• 44:34
  long pause and the steel that I got and it goes to your point
• 44:39
  about kind of your conversation with Coach.
• 44:44
  Can the first time you spoke with her, this feel that I got.
• 44:49
  After I said no that's what I knew.
• 44:53
  She was good recruiter. I mean it was just it she gave
• 44:58
  me every reason, Why I could say no but I probably should.
• 45:03
  And and by the end of the phone call, you know, I had changed my
• 45:08
  mind and so it wasn't a guilt thing.
• 45:10
  It wasn't. I was it was more like she's
• 45:14
  right. And again I didn't know her well
• 45:16
  enough to feel like, you know, I owed her or she own writing.
• 45:21
  It just was a it was a fit that made sense made sense at the
• 45:27
  time and obviously We obviously a chance to come back home and I
• 45:32
  ended up telling her I just said no, because I didn't think I was
• 45:36
  ready. I didn't think I was ready.
• 45:39
  You know, just got in this profession.
• 45:40
  I'm still learning the ins and outs, you know, I could be, I
• 45:44
  mean, I hated that could be at a championship team and be the six
• 45:49
  coach on staff. So nobody's you know, no
• 45:52
  pressure, right? And all the buses show up.
• 45:55
  I've done my job that the Ohio state division, one The field
• 45:59
  coach. And, and they had just put the
• 46:02
  program. So when I left, it was combined
• 46:04
  during the time, I was at Auburn, they split it.
• 46:06
  So Karen was just calling me about working with the women.
• 46:09
  So now you have three coaches and had a distance coach plan,
• 46:13
  she was always prints and hurdles and essentially, I
• 46:16
  wasn't mean charging all the fields, and I thought, like that
• 46:22
  sounds like a lot of work that is going to be, you know, not
• 46:27
  necessarily scrutinized but There's nowhere to hide more
• 46:30
  visibility more visibility, you know?
• 46:34
  And so not that I was necessarily afraid of the work.
• 46:37
  Well I didn't want to put her in a position that she had either,
• 46:42
  you know, defend or you know, I just felt like, can you, you can
• 46:46
  get somebody to better that in my head.
• 46:50
  That's what I thought. And I think that goes back to
• 46:52
  the conversation. It's like, well, who's better
• 46:55
  for women's field event at Ohio State?
• 46:59
  Then you and I don't have an answer but, but I just didn't,
• 47:06
  you know, just the profession. You know, she talked about
• 47:09
  representation, she talked about the chance to kind of step out
• 47:14
  and be more visible as a good thing.
• 47:17
  Not necessarily something to be afraid of and so, and really
• 47:20
  related it to, you know, being a student-athlete, the
• 47:24
  competitiveness, there opportunity to build a legacy
• 47:28
  and leave a legacy. Beyond is being an athlete.
• 47:30
  I mean, it was just a lot of great things and then if that I
• 47:34
  mean, ultimately, that was a profession that I wanted to
• 47:37
  pursue, she D to do me and obviously it, I was learning a
• 47:44
  lot of great things that I've earned but I hadn't learned how
• 47:47
  to be a black woman in this Sport and I burn.
• 47:51
  And so you know it was just all around opportunity that I at the
• 47:56
  end I'm like this I would be crazy.
• 47:59
  Crazy not to not to take this job and so that's it.
• 48:04
  Okay. I'm going home to pack, you
• 48:07
  know, super interesting. I always go back to one of the
• 48:11
  things that George Williams longtime coach at st.
• 48:15
  Augustine is kind of famous for saying, is, you know, if you're
• 48:18
  not in the Huddle, you don't know the play.
• 48:20
  And what I think about with that story, you just shared is, you
• 48:24
  know, on the outside. We may see Rosalind now, the
• 48:27
  director of track and field. Now, State before that, and
• 48:30
  we're going to get there at Carbondale and before that at
• 48:33
  Ohio State, and it's like, oh yeah.
• 48:36
  You know, it's better pay. Who's back, you know, closer to
• 48:39
  home, of course. That's why she took it, you
• 48:40
  know, my job kind of dropped when you said I told her.
• 48:43
  No, first of all, I can't imagine saying no to here.
• 48:45
  And Dennis, I just amazing in the story kind of reflective of
• 48:49
  how long is that going to work out for you?
• 48:52
  Right? Yeah.
• 48:54
  And then on the other side of the to I can see the you didn't
• 48:59
  use it. Us were just give me my word
• 49:00
  here, the intimidation. I mean, you were a horizontal
• 49:03
  jumper here. You are at a Big Ten institution
• 49:06
  and your the field events coach. So you're going to coach things
• 49:09
  that you, you had maybe not ever even thought of like, I know
• 49:13
  it's part of the team, but I don't wear it though, you know?
• 49:16
  And so there could be a little bit like Oly.
• 49:18
  Cow, how am I even supposed to do this?
• 49:19
  And I don't want to let down my team in my, it's my alma mater.
• 49:22
  So there's extra pressure of like, I don't want to let down
• 49:24
  my alma mater, so I can see that we're on the other side.
• 49:28
  We told ourselves like Oh, negotiating for higher pay and
• 49:32
  Bubba blonde. And you didn't mention that all
• 49:35
  you were talking more about fit and function as you to the team.
• 49:39
  And for now a career that you're you're starting Yeah, yeah, I
• 49:45
  didn't know I mean you know just maybe I should not think these
• 49:50
  are important conversations to have you know, priced separately
• 49:53
  when you talk about pay for women and things like that.
• 49:57
  But at the time I just know wherever I am and I tell my
• 50:01
  staff and a half and now I'm very protective of my good name
• 50:04
  and so I you know, I want to make sure that I do a good job
• 50:07
  and then I'm putting a position to do good job.
• 50:10
  So there there's some scenarios where you have to say no,
• 50:13
  because it It just is just not going to work out, but this was
• 50:16
  one of those situations where there wasn't really a reason
• 50:20
  other than some intimidation Factor.
• 50:23
  But but even that was self-inflicted, if you will, if
• 50:28
  I really looked at, you know what, what I had done what was
• 50:33
  being asked me to do, then if I had learned all the other stuff
• 50:38
  I would I was pretty confident. I figured out here, it was
• 50:43
  really If in an age in a 10-year thing, because again, I've
• 50:46
  missed all people who want to coach so, you know, all right.
• 50:50
  I'll come there next year. Can you give me one more time?
• 50:54
  You're failing here? I just, you know, and not to
• 50:58
  sound arrogant about. I just didn't realize that it's
• 51:01
  that there was a market for me and a desire for me to be
• 51:06
  somewhere. So even when you know, coach
• 51:08
  Frey said, he's going to create this sixth position.
• 51:11
  I just thought that he University finally, Enough money
• 51:14
  to, you know, create this position.
• 51:15
  I didn't think it had anything to do with me and so I with that
• 51:20
  me feeling comfortable or thinking I could just flowed
• 51:23
  through his profession was really going to be that my hard
• 51:29
  work. Like that's what I wanted it to
• 51:30
  be on because they knew I'd do a good job not because you know I
• 51:34
  check the box or that they knew me because when I went to Auburn
• 51:38
  that they didn't know me at all and so it was just a matter of,
• 51:42
  you know, know I'll do a good job.
• 51:43
  For you and I want to make sure that any move I made that I
• 51:47
  could do that, you know? It made me think as you were
• 51:50
  talking about the process and the naivety of not knowing,
• 51:54
  like, all next year care and I'll, you know, it because it'll
• 51:57
  be available because no one else is wants to do this job.
• 51:59
  If you know anything about like through high school and through
• 52:02
  college, a lot of the professions that we talked
• 52:04
  about, you know, an accountant teacher.
• 52:09
  Like there's this like Playbook like oh yeah you get a teaching
• 52:12
  degree you do student. Teaching you, you know, find a
• 52:14
  job and become a kindergarten teacher, whatever.
• 52:17
  Yeah, there's like a Playbook here.
• 52:19
  There's not that for coaching. There are.
• 52:21
  There is no coaching. I know there are coaching
• 52:24
  degrees, but there's there's not the play book written of like,
• 52:26
  okay, you want to become a college coach and whatever
• 52:29
  sport. Obviously, we're talking
• 52:30
  specifically track and field here, but okay, here's kind of
• 52:33
  the the original Playbook. Here's the, the average Playbook
• 52:36
  UGA. Then you become an assistant,
• 52:38
  and then we'll maybe that's and never thought about this and
• 52:42
  what we're doing here. The guilt connections podcast,
• 52:44
  maybe we're helping kind of write that story of like, okay,
• 52:48
  you know, we don't have a lot of student athletes.
• 52:51
  At listen, our age demographic shows us that it's pretty much
• 52:54
  coaches and up, but we do have some some athletes.
• 52:56
  And I wonder if, you know, historically this might help
• 52:59
  people get in and not get in meaning don't get into coaching
• 53:03
  if it's not the right thing for you, but maybe this can help
• 53:05
  show through the experiences and and stories of people like you.
• 53:10
  That's super interesting. Okay.
• 53:13
  So let's talk about coaching a little bit.
• 53:15
  Now we don't talk X's and O's here at all Roslyn.
• 53:18
  It'd be unethical hair. I, you know how they say, you
• 53:21
  know, I'm so old, I forgotten more about coaching then, you
• 53:24
  know, that's only true because I forgotten everything on how to
• 53:28
  coach, I haven't done it now, in 17 years.
• 53:32
  So I don't, I don't even try to pretend to talk about how to
• 53:35
  make a long jumper better and all that kind of stuff.
• 53:38
  But what I'm curious about is your professional development.
• 53:42
  You go from Being an athlete and specifically primarily a
• 53:47
  horizontal jumper to. Now you're in charge of all
• 53:49
  field events. How did you prepare coaching?
• 53:53
  Education wise? What did you do in?
• 53:56
  Tell us when you say all field events, do you mean like throws
• 53:59
  and Alton high jump? Okay.
• 54:01
  So what did you do? Because you're obviously a
• 54:04
  bright person that you don't just go in going.
• 54:06
  Well, I'll just wing it and figure it out.
• 54:08
  Yeah, kind of given the the the sense that you're a preparer.
• 54:13
  Like okay I'm going to least be prepared.
• 54:15
  What did you do to prepare to coach events that?
• 54:18
  Like I said, you might not even have thought of as an athlete
• 54:20
  like yeah, those guys and gals over there.
• 54:22
  I don't ever have to worry about a shot putter and now you do
• 54:25
  have to worry about it. I have to worry about Charlotte.
• 54:28
  Would you do? No.
• 54:29
  I think, you know, that may be the hardest thing for some
• 54:34
  people to do, is I ask for help because I knew I needed help.
• 54:38
  So, you know, that was the question like, okay, you mean
• 54:41
  shotput? Yes.
• 54:42
  Do you mean? Evelyn, do you mean Bowl V?
• 54:46
  You know, I was comfortable actually spent more my AAU days
• 54:50
  but I spent a brief stint as a multi and so I had least like I
• 54:55
  picked up a shotput. I've had, you know, I but I
• 55:00
  definitely knew you know, then I was still learning the
• 55:02
  profession. I knew the events that I knew at
• 55:06
  Auburn, you know, dear had spend a good deal of allowing me to
• 55:10
  just kind of walk through work with the multi.
• 55:12
  So I was comfortable. Well, with every event and but I
• 55:16
  wanted that to be clear with the student-athletes and I think in
• 55:20
  order to do that, you don't want to walk and say, you know
• 55:22
  everything, here's what I know, here's what I know that, I don't
• 55:26
  know and then I'm going to ask for help in terms of the rest so
• 55:30
  that they can perform to their Max ability.
• 55:32
  I think you're due a student-athlete a disservice.
• 55:35
  If you're guessing they get, they get four years five, I
• 55:38
  would go, but maybe six but, you know, you can't spend a bunch of
• 55:42
  time. Of their collegiate career
• 55:45
  trying to figure something out. So actually Karen had done a
• 55:49
  good job of already wedding a throws volunteers but you know
• 55:54
  that that was the plan but because you're in charge of the
• 55:57
  field when you to meet with her see what you think.
• 56:00
  And so Rita summer lot was the throws volunteer for us.
• 56:04
  Yeah. That's a that's a pretty good
• 56:06
  one. I tell you what I you know that
• 56:11
  we need to schedule lunch here too soon, you know?
• 56:13
  We've kept in, touch over the years and I mean, just so now
• 56:17
  coming in and she just took it and ran with it, you know, it
• 56:20
  started off. Like, okay, what do you want me
• 56:22
  to do? Is I want you to do everything
• 56:24
  on this side of the track, in the throes area.
• 56:28
  And I mean that the, you know, I wish I had her resume for the
• 56:32
  things that she did. But she was part of, you know,
• 56:35
  the team that the women's team that won the first Big Ten
• 56:38
  Championship in school history and a lot of that was the
• 56:42
  throwers. You know, with the hammer, the
• 56:45
  time it's funny to talk about the triple jump Market the time.
• 56:48
  You know, Big Ten record holder in the hammer, Javelin all-big,
• 56:53
  ten, four years straight. I mean, just some of the
• 56:57
  throwers that she produced as a volunteer coach for us and I
• 57:03
  bought a lunge every chance I could because it's like she
• 57:06
  really owned it as you know as her as her program she and Karen
• 57:12
  had a relationship. I think from the 2000 Olympic
• 57:15
  Games, they had, they were on that staff together.
• 57:17
  So, you know, I just the things I was able to really Garner for
• 57:22
  her. Allow me a chance to be better
• 57:27
  to be a better Coach, because again, the more you can see it
• 57:30
  from different people and just how she worked with the student
• 57:33
  athletes and goes back to what, I thought I was doing at Auburn.
• 57:37
  I mean, she was doing it for free here and really owned it.
• 57:43
  As her program. And so she was great and I can't
• 57:48
  thank her enough because I can't imagine that we would have had
• 57:51
  the success we did. If I was coaching the throat and
• 57:55
  then went and got a volunteer povo coach because I will say
• 57:59
  that that is that is the event. I knew I didn't know confidently
• 58:05
  enough to try and you know put put young women on you know Big
• 58:11
  Sticks and feel like I was unsure Sure.
• 58:14
  And so had started off with I can't even remember now.
• 58:18
  I think the first year I had two different, you know, when was
• 58:22
  maybe right out of college came in and helped.
• 58:25
  And now, the guy who just couldn't, I think, couldn't
• 58:29
  really stay on with, you know, family and work commitments.
• 58:33
  And so our vault coach here, and it's still here.
• 58:36
  Now, even he Richard even he came in at, we posted it like,
• 58:43
  you know, usaps CCC, you know that?
• 58:47
  that posting for for jobs and he actually walked in the office
• 58:52
  one day, he's like, hey heard you looking for volunteers I'm
• 58:57
  retired used to Vault I have all the, you know, my sons are done.
• 59:02
  Vaulting. I want to stay involved.
• 59:05
  Can you help me? I'm like practices at three.
• 59:09
  See it three. And he's been, he's been here
• 59:13
  ever since so, you know, it's been nice to have obviously that
• 59:18
  that continuity with that group. In from the women combined, we
• 59:27
  actually had to vote coaches for a while because the men had a
• 59:31
  vault codes and then make some family work issues there.
• 59:35
  When he stepped away, the other gentleman stepped away, he's
• 59:38
  taking on the mend you know II got seem at Nationals last year
• 59:42
  with which is involved here. So I mean, he's done a great job
• 59:46
  but again it's really getting the right people around you that
• 59:51
  are just as passionate about what you're doing and then just
• 59:55
  like in and getting out of their way, you know, I can, what do
• 59:58
  you need? And then I'll get out of your
• 59:59
  way. And I was very gracious for
• 1:00:01
  that. Is Richard even is he the one
• 1:00:04
  kind of long beard and Hawaiian shirt?
• 1:00:08
  Okay, so at this past Big, Ten championships.
• 1:00:12
  I don't know how I mean, I go to a lot of meats and a lot of
• 1:00:15
  meats, were how states that I don't know if I've ever seen him
• 1:00:18
  before. But at Minnesota last year, who
• 1:00:20
  did a bang out job? By the way, of Hosting big
• 1:00:23
  Ten's? Just phenomenal.
• 1:00:24
  Presentation got I don't say lucky, but super lucky with
• 1:00:28
  weather. Although they Kind of kind of
• 1:00:30
  didn't but they did during the competition when it mattered.
• 1:00:33
  So did a great job. Shout out to the Gophers there.
• 1:00:35
  But I was walking around and it was during I don't think was
• 1:00:38
  even during warm up so that was at our practice time and I see
• 1:00:41
  this guy sitting on a chair, you know, Hawaii and beard.
• 1:00:44
  And I think I was with the Minnesota football coach, and I
• 1:00:48
  was like, hey, who like their see this guy.
• 1:00:52
  Who is that? Like, oh yeah, that's the
• 1:00:53
  highest, a pop coach. And I was like, oh, that dude,
• 1:00:57
  looks like he is enjoying life, like he is just Loving it
• 1:01:00
  sitting back in the chair. Yeah.
• 1:01:04
  Retirement is what I get to do. So I was like talking about
• 1:01:08
  people that just love this. Yeah, that's what you want.
• 1:01:11
  I was instantly. Like I'm out of all could was
• 1:01:14
  like, I want that. I want.
• 1:01:15
  That guy is like he is enjoying life right now.
• 1:01:19
  Like it was just the most wisdom, he brings you know,
• 1:01:22
  because to your point he is retired.
• 1:01:24
  And so this is now what he wants to do.
• 1:01:26
  And and but the wisdom he can bring from um you know I asked
• 1:01:30
  them parenting questions and you know just just what he brings to
• 1:01:34
  the staff is great to have that Dynamic and I think that you
• 1:01:38
  know, as leaders in general, it's pretty unfortunately these
• 1:01:43
  easy to either feel unconfident about, you know what someone
• 1:01:47
  else is doing, but I think as long as the message is the same,
• 1:01:50
  you have good people, you can trust around you you know, it
• 1:01:54
  all brings value and so I don't I don't need him to do it my way
• 1:01:58
  because otherwise I do, Myself, we just went through that, I
• 1:02:01
  don't want to do it. So it's, you know, how can I be,
• 1:02:05
  you know, in a position where I'm just supportive of the
• 1:02:10
  person I've asked to do a job and if they're doing it.
• 1:02:14
  Well, you know, I was here, safety and care for the
• 1:02:17
  student-athletes are the main thing.
• 1:02:19
  But, you know, if I'm not going to tell me as a where certain
• 1:02:24
  shirt because he likes to Hawaiian shirt that's it is not
• 1:02:28
  hurting anybody, that's right. I accept.
• 1:02:32
  So what I asked, what did you do for development?
• 1:02:35
  You brought up a kind of under talked about aspect of
• 1:02:39
  professional development and that's mentorship asking other
• 1:02:41
  people getting help with a read of Summer, lot, who's just an
• 1:02:44
  absolute Legend soon as you mention her, I was like, oh, we
• 1:02:47
  can stop talking because I know you think care of them because
• 1:02:50
  she's amazing in the summer. Lots in general are just amazing
• 1:02:53
  people and advocates for our sport.
• 1:02:56
  So I love that you brought that up first because that's kind of
• 1:02:57
  an under leverage and Discussed way of professional development,
• 1:03:02
  and that's working with other people.
• 1:03:04
  Not going to necessarily say peers, but people that have done
• 1:03:08
  the business and done it well at different levels and that you
• 1:03:11
  can pick the brain of, and well, how do you do that?
• 1:03:13
  And I love boy, your leadership skills were fairly evident here
• 1:03:18
  at a very young part of your career.
• 1:03:19
  When you're like, yeah, I let them do their thing, and I get
• 1:03:22
  out of their way. That's an important aspect of
• 1:03:24
  leadership. That some people don't
• 1:03:27
  understand yet, when you doing anything, NG formalized as
• 1:03:32
  you're grown up now through Ohio State here any usatf coaches, Ed
• 1:03:37
  initially u.s. tfcc a coach and Education team and now we have
• 1:03:41
  Altus things like that. Are you doing book, reading
• 1:03:44
  videos, with any kind of profession paraprofessional, any
• 1:03:47
  kind of formalized, professional development. yeah, I, you know,
• 1:03:52
  went through the USA Track and Field, you know, level and
• 1:03:56
  Action level one at Auburn and came in u.s. tfcc CA did a
• 1:04:03
  couple of classes there early on and then I would try and if I'm
• 1:04:08
  honest I would try and go to clinics, you know, I went to to
• 1:04:13
  a learn-by-doing shotput clinic and was put on by a high school,
• 1:04:17
  but now I know what high school is are hearing and You can teach
• 1:04:21
  me like I've never done it and so you know I'm going to go
• 1:04:24
  there and have this High School coach in the in the area and I
• 1:04:28
  paid the fee a showed up and now it's a plain T-shirt and you
• 1:04:32
  know I'm going to emerge myself into to some of the
• 1:04:36
  conversations that are are being had around events and not in.
• 1:04:40
  This sounds bad, not with the peers, you know, what is it that
• 1:04:43
  I should know, so that when I get around my peers, we either
• 1:04:47
  can have conversations about it but really A, it was more for
• 1:04:51
  me, it was more probably a ground-up type of learning where
• 1:04:56
  I let me just learn the basics. Let me see.
• 1:04:58
  You know what, I should know before.
• 1:05:00
  I, you know, say I'm going to try and get this Master Level
• 1:05:03
  USA Track and Field certificate. And and, and I've never even,
• 1:05:07
  you know, coach this this event. And that was me wanting to be a
• 1:05:12
  great multi-code. So, I actually some people, I
• 1:05:15
  pride myself on being a multi of United.
• 1:05:18
  It was says jumps, but I think jumps and multi, because You
• 1:05:21
  know, wanting to be evident, not bad, even that, I'm that events
• 1:05:25
  specifically. But that, you know, I have a
• 1:05:28
  respect for little bit of every event in track and field and I
• 1:05:33
  pride myself on trying to know and, you know, a little bit
• 1:05:36
  about every event track and field.
• 1:05:38
  So, you know, when last year, I had to go to a steeple Chaser,
• 1:05:44
  it wasn't and who, you know, everyone's asking me how
• 1:05:47
  uncomfortable I am if I got this I'm not I'm not you know I want
• 1:05:52
  to be comfortable with the sport and make sure I have enough
• 1:05:57
  knowledge to just just do as best as I can and I think that's
• 1:06:03
  really what the student athletes need someone that is not going
• 1:06:07
  to brush it off and say oh well I don't know anything about it
• 1:06:10
  let me try my best to learn as much as I can and apply it where
• 1:06:13
  needed. So really to answer your
• 1:06:16
  question. I I felt it was most important
• 1:06:18
  to allow the readings. I did And again, it's early on.
• 1:06:22
  I still thought maybe teaching would be, you know, the long,
• 1:06:27
  the long-term I didn't I didn't know coaching was, you know, I
• 1:06:30
  just didn't know where it would take you.
• 1:06:31
  So it's like, yeah, you got to have something to fall back on.
• 1:06:35
  It's all a lot of, a lot of my development was still early
• 1:06:40
  childhood development communication, how you work with
• 1:06:43
  peers, family and relationship Dynamics.
• 1:06:48
  All things that end up helping them recruiting and Developing
• 1:06:51
  student athletes. But at the time, I was just
• 1:06:53
  trying to figure out how to how to work with people not
• 1:06:56
  necessarily just the event. We've had discussions in the
• 1:07:00
  past episodes here about ego. And a lot of times when people
• 1:07:05
  hear the word ego, it's automatic.
• 1:07:06
  Like OE goes, bad, and that's not true.
• 1:07:08
  He goes what helps us dress nicer.
• 1:07:12
  Get fit in the, you know, stay healthy strive for bigger,
• 1:07:15
  higher, quote unquote, better stuff, bad ego is bad, right?
• 1:07:20
  So What was interesting in a little kind of shocking is the
• 1:07:25
  right word, but you're at Ohio State University, you were very
• 1:07:29
  accomplished, athlete yourself. And you went to a high school
• 1:07:34
  shotput Clinic, you kind of stripped bare all the ego of
• 1:07:40
  like it is like I look good in this world and these are my
• 1:07:43
  words here Roslin. I'm a nobody so teach me that is
• 1:07:47
  pretty astounding humility. Where some people have been
• 1:07:51
  like, look, I got an image to uphold and we, you know, the
• 1:07:54
  Ohio State University is one of the top three, four, five
• 1:07:58
  institutions that have an image. I mean, for crying out loud, you
• 1:08:01
  guys just trademarked the word, the that says something.
• 1:08:05
  All right, come on. Now, you know, we were going to
• 1:08:06
  pass that. So it's just interesting, how
• 1:08:10
  you could, apparently they pronounce it because the oh,
• 1:08:13
  sorry. Yeah, see one from Alabama.
• 1:08:15
  So the yeah, I probably spill it to, uh, a, as well, by the way.
• 1:08:19
  So, So to step, back in that humility and say, okay, teach me
• 1:08:30
  high school, by the way, even high school, even to take that
• 1:08:33
  to go to the high school and not say, all right, I'm going to go
• 1:08:35
  to John Smith, come on, one of the preeminent with his wife,
• 1:08:39
  Connie price method. The to, you know, if your name
• 1:08:41
  the top five throws coaches in the world, I'd hesitate to say
• 1:08:44
  that those two people aren't in the top five so you didn't even
• 1:08:47
  go. There's a hey can you just teach
• 1:08:49
  me? You went You kind of like,
• 1:08:51
  bared, your soul and was like, all right, I know you're at such
• 1:08:54
  high school and you're such as I school.
• 1:08:55
  I'm at the highest University but I'm here to learn as well.
• 1:08:59
  How did you overcome any Temptation for bad ego?
• 1:09:04
  And say, you know, this is a below me, you stepped in and
• 1:09:07
  said, boy, this might be above me for crying out loud.
• 1:09:09
  How, how do you, how do you do that?
• 1:09:14
  You know, and it's funny because I've heard that I've gotten that
• 1:09:17
  question before, and I just never thought about it.
• 1:09:21
  Just never, I mean, even now it's a struggle for me, when
• 1:09:26
  when people want to interview me, when they say, man, that's a
• 1:09:29
  big job. Or like, I'm just showing up
• 1:09:32
  every day, putting the work in trying to do the best that I can
• 1:09:36
  can do. So, whatever that is I'm not
• 1:09:40
  really worried about what it, what it Like as long as it's
• 1:09:44
  positive and productive, that's not my word is productivity.
• 1:09:50
  Then then you know then I don't care what you think about me or
• 1:09:55
  you know what you think it looks like because I'm just trying to
• 1:09:58
  do the best job that I can do and so I don't know.
• 1:10:02
  I those things don't cross my mind, a whole lot when I'm
• 1:10:07
  trying to do some. I'm trying to figure out how to
• 1:10:08
  get it done. And so at the time I had You
• 1:10:13
  know, throwers that needed to know that.
• 1:10:15
  Yeah, I wasn't asked with I was competent enough, then I'm going
• 1:10:19
  to figure it out and so, so really, I think I'm probably
• 1:10:23
  even it's evident now. I don't really have a response
• 1:10:26
  to that, those kind of questions, because I don't even
• 1:10:29
  know, I didn't even know. That was a thing.
• 1:10:32
  What did you know? When I showed up in Pete, in a
• 1:10:34
  t-shirt, I wasn't even necessarily trying to hide.
• 1:10:37
  I, I registered I paid my fee at a pocket, you know, was he like,
• 1:10:43
  Cam going to professional development of and we get on the
• 1:10:45
  road real quick and I'll pay the the, it was a coaches clinic for
• 1:10:49
  High School coaches. So it wasn't like, you know, it
• 1:10:52
  was open to anybody. I'm going to go, not like I
• 1:10:56
  asked for this private one-on-one, right?
• 1:10:58
  Right. Asked her, you know, can you
• 1:11:00
  waive my fee? I just, I just needed to get
• 1:11:03
  that done but to me it was a it was a checkmark they okay I'ma
• 1:11:06
  Gonna Learn, I'm come back home. It wasn't like and I was trying
• 1:11:10
  to make a statement or Or even new probably, the only person
• 1:11:14
  who's ever asked about that clinic right on, you know, I
• 1:11:17
  went. But, but it's just, those are
• 1:11:21
  the things I think, day in day out, the little things that
• 1:11:25
  maybe, maybe, it's good or bad. I'm just so focused on on making
• 1:11:29
  sure we're being productive that the image part is, that's
• 1:11:33
  actually harder for me. Now, you know, when people say,
• 1:11:35
  oh you're in that seat and I'm like, I just Is it Jerry I want
• 1:11:39
  I want to do well but I just didn't realize it came with so
• 1:11:43
  much of the Fanfare. If you will.
• 1:11:46
  Well, we're going to get to that seat that you're in, let's speed
• 1:11:48
  up a little bit, just for sake of your time, I appreciate
• 1:11:50
  again, your time today. So, how many years were you at
• 1:11:53
  Ohio State in and talk to us about the growth from walking
• 1:11:58
  in, as this, I'm going to be doing all field events to the
• 1:12:02
  ownership of it as you continue through your career there at
• 1:12:05
  Ohio State. Yeah.
• 1:12:09
  Two years at Auburn. Then got the opportunity to come
• 1:12:11
  here it was. Jeez come on.
• 1:12:13
  Messes up. Six years as assistant with the
• 1:12:17
  women only because again it was split program.
• 1:12:21
  So and then program combined in 2014, yes, 2014.
• 1:12:32
  So then associate head coach with the men and women so for
• 1:12:35
  additional four years, so it's a total of ten.
• 1:12:38
  Years here under Karen, Dennis and then, you know, was able to
• 1:12:44
  leave with the Southern Illinois, for four years as a
• 1:12:47
  director track and field across the country, there are men and
• 1:12:50
  women and then open to opportunity to come back.
• 1:12:54
  And so no, it's been tell me again.
• 1:12:57
  The question you asked about the journey that I was here, just as
• 1:13:00
  I was here. Yeah, just the Ten Years.
• 1:13:01
  Let's stay right here at the, the first tour of Ohio State.
• 1:13:04
  As an undergrad was first here first or second, Yeah, just the
• 1:13:09
  development and even to, you know, I'm glad you brought that
• 1:13:12
  up that you were when they combine the program you were
• 1:13:15
  moved into you've earned the position of associate head
• 1:13:19
  coach. What does that mean?
• 1:13:22
  And what I mean by that is, you know, we have different titles
• 1:13:25
  here. What did that look like for you?
• 1:13:28
  And what did that spur? If anything career-wise for you?
• 1:13:33
  Nothing, really. I think we, it definitely You go
• 1:13:39
  from three coaches. Now, you have things, I think it
• 1:13:41
  gave a little bit of. Not a hierarchy is not forward
• 1:13:47
  but, you know, just that the tenure that I had had a parent
• 1:13:52
  that I became, you know, actually, she's the last cause I
• 1:13:56
  will become the second last call, and, and that comes with
• 1:13:59
  just knowing the person you're working for.
• 1:14:02
  It wasn't about X's, and O's, and we were doing a good job, a
• 1:14:06
  great job on the track. But It was a matter of, you
• 1:14:10
  know, is this the person that in Karen's absence, I know, you
• 1:14:14
  know, would make decisions based on the whole program.
• 1:14:17
  Do it the way that, you know, she's comfortable doing it, can
• 1:14:21
  help the staff, you know, grow into what the vision is and just
• 1:14:27
  just all those little things. So it really had nothing to do
• 1:14:30
  with, oh, you know, this is, these are, these are the
• 1:14:34
  athletes are produced, or he's the points, I've scored, it was
• 1:14:38
  the The scene who would take care of this program as if it
• 1:14:42
  was theirs. In my absence if you will, who
• 1:14:45
  can I call if I can't you can or if I'm not quite ready, reach
• 1:14:48
  Karen, you know that's key its key what were their
• 1:15:05
  responsibilities? The first of all coaching wise
• 1:15:08
  We're probably less responsibilities.
• 1:15:10
  Meaning, you didn't have throws now because of the going from a
• 1:15:13
  combined are going from an individual to combine program
• 1:15:16
  where there are additional responsibilities coaching wise,
• 1:15:18
  where you in charge of scheduling or budgeting or
• 1:15:22
  recruiting anything like that know, to your point.
• 1:15:25
  It actually got a little easier, you know, when you three
• 1:15:28
  coaches, those are things that I wasn't.
• 1:15:30
  I was doing already with just, you know, split programs.
• 1:15:35
  So what I like doing is I was able to kind of delegate some
• 1:15:40
  duties and actually spend more time on the track.
• 1:15:42
  So that was actually really, you know, fun for me is that you
• 1:15:47
  know, with three people in the program he had distance and you
• 1:15:53
  know with cross-country they're always in season by the end of
• 1:15:57
  that 10 year that was server. Go to who still on staff here
• 1:16:01
  and so but she I mean she does a great great job and so you know
• 1:16:06
  but she had three seasons Take care of the things that need to
• 1:16:09
  be taken care of, their hearing, is, was a great recruiter.
• 1:16:14
  She did a lot of the crew recruiting.
• 1:16:16
  I'm, if I'm honest when it was just the women.
• 1:16:18
  So it's like, she's on the road and she, you know, and and that
• 1:16:22
  was kind of the plan coming in. You tell me what you need me to
• 1:16:24
  do and you do or you do what you comfortable doing.
• 1:16:28
  I'll do all the rest. And so, you know, I had the
• 1:16:30
  budget, the equipment to travel, you know, the scheduling and was
• 1:16:36
  coaching, well, you know, Are overseeing all the field and so
• 1:16:40
  to be able to go to Six staff and delegate some travel and you
• 1:16:45
  know not have to oversee the throws at all because now we can
• 1:16:50
  hire someone full-time. It just it helped.
• 1:16:53
  It actually was was pretty good but just like anything now
• 1:16:57
  you're talking about management of more people.
• 1:16:59
  And that's I think that really was the key of that role is
• 1:17:04
  making sure. Now that, you know, we had
• 1:17:06
  gotten into a group of three people.
• 1:17:08
  But how's it going with sticks and volunteers?
• 1:17:12
  You know, and now the men is really establishing those kind
• 1:17:15
  of relationships and working roles You know, I steer away
• 1:17:21
  from asking the stereotypical question, what?
• 1:17:24
  I'm interviewing female coach of the well, how is it coaching
• 1:17:29
  men? So I'm not going to ask that.
• 1:17:30
  I learned that with Karen. Actually, I remember this thing
• 1:17:32
  that exact thing to Karen's like, I'm not going to ask that.
• 1:17:36
  I don't want to say but because, you know, when you say but that
• 1:17:38
  erases everything you just said and we did.
• 1:17:40
  But yeah. However, what I am curious about
• 1:17:44
  because your, it's almost like a new coaches come into the
• 1:17:47
  program for the for the men because your Combined rights.
• 1:17:50
  All the men's jumpers were coached by someone else at that
• 1:17:52
  point in now, they're under a new coach.
• 1:17:55
  How did that integration occur of the men's team in the women's
• 1:17:59
  team being? Now, I'm say the same team,
• 1:18:02
  obviously you know, there's different things like that, but
• 1:18:04
  same coach now, Etc. How was that transition?
• 1:18:08
  Little rocky. Hmm.
• 1:18:11
  Rocky and nothing unexpected. You you you know the same fears
• 1:18:16
  and maybe some of the doubt that we had as coaches, the, the
• 1:18:19
  student athletes had. And so, you know, there was a
• 1:18:22
  year of just trying to trying to integrate.
• 1:18:26
  I think that first year and I feel like I'm a forget the I
• 1:18:31
  think that first year that we ended up combining and the women
• 1:18:34
  one. Maybe endure.
• 1:18:37
  And so now actually so now and I remember I remember celebrating
• 1:18:45
  and on the way back to the bus Karen's like I need them in the
• 1:18:48
  field. At that was her work.
• 1:18:50
  You know, the women are celebrating.
• 1:18:52
  We had done suggests story things and I think now she's in
• 1:18:55
  charge of both and you you all are on the same bus and you're
• 1:18:59
  leaving. And now you kind of have to be
• 1:19:02
  responsible for, you know, Okay, this group is yay but I also
• 1:19:08
  have to talk to this other group who maybe is kind of down but I
• 1:19:13
  think in doing that they were also able to see you know, took
• 1:19:16
  the year to see. Okay, well she figured out how
• 1:19:19
  to do that with women may be, right?
• 1:19:23
  Because it just wasn't. There wasn't a lot of
• 1:19:25
  integration of the programs before that.
• 1:19:27
  So I don't think it was anything intentional for them and not
• 1:19:31
  that it was a struggle for us. I mean, you know, other than Big
• 1:19:35
  Ten's, I don't think we ever you know saw each other the same
• 1:19:39
  needs, right? It just it just wasn't something
• 1:19:41
  that you know you thought about but it took it as a year to kind
• 1:19:46
  of really get everyone on the same page of what we're trying
• 1:19:50
  to do. You know the staff is the staff.
• 1:19:53
  So you know some that bought in some that didn't and that's
• 1:19:56
  fair, you know, you have options but you know it took about a
• 1:20:00
  year but Karen Karen does a great job of just just pulling
• 1:20:04
  people in. Yeah, Yeah, very very true.
• 1:20:07
  So you spend 10 years at your alma mater.
• 1:20:10
  Really, if you tell me if this is fair to say growing up in the
• 1:20:14
  profession, I mean from I know little too, I am running my vent
• 1:20:21
  group, I am helping run the program, it's quite amazing like
• 1:20:26
  you. It feels like there's some at
• 1:20:27
  some point during the 10 years there was like a coronation of.
• 1:20:29
  Okay? Now you are coach.
• 1:20:31
  No, no, no, no. There was, there was.
• 1:20:33
  Yeah. And again, Was have a very
• 1:20:37
  special place in my heart for alums who coach at their alma
• 1:20:39
  mater. I mean, like to me like when I
• 1:20:41
  think about, I coached at my alma mater for a little while
• 1:20:44
  and recruited other places, Mississippi State, etcetera.
• 1:20:46
  And I just think man, when you're recruiting to your alma
• 1:20:49
  mater, like, it doesn't get any more true and authentic when you
• 1:20:53
  tell that kid how great the school is your like, yeah, you
• 1:20:55
  know, you know how, I can prove how great it is.
• 1:20:58
  I went to school here, like that's how much I believe in
• 1:21:00
  this school, right? So I always have a soft place
• 1:21:02
  there for you. You're at a great institution.
• 1:21:04
  It's not like you have any kind of Yearning like, well, I just
• 1:21:06
  want to try to be a D1. Coach, check your there?
• 1:21:09
  I just, maybe what would it be like, can I be successful as a
• 1:21:12
  power 5 coach? Check your there, you've checked
• 1:21:14
  all those pretty fairly sometimes.
• 1:21:18
  Common career goals, why go to Carbondale?
• 1:21:23
  While I go to you leave Ohio state to become the head coach,
• 1:21:28
  Southern, Illinois, Carbondale, a great institution.
• 1:21:30
  Don't hear me, I've known plenty people.
• 1:21:32
  They are new Connie and John when they are, they're amazing.
• 1:21:33
  People might former athlete and Phanie aklan used to coach there
• 1:21:36
  as well. So long okay.
• 1:21:38
  Yeah. Yeah, I'm a big Anthony icon
• 1:21:40
  fan. But you know, so it's not like
• 1:21:44
  it's a downgrade, I'm just curious why leaves a place
• 1:21:47
  that's obviously very special to you professionally
• 1:21:49
  professionally in your career. Undergrad is a is your education
• 1:21:53
  and you, you leave. What was the reasoning for that?
• 1:21:56
  You know, I really did think it was time.
• 1:21:59
  So a lot of the things that Karen had talked to me about in
• 1:22:03
  terms of growth in the profession, When I was when I
• 1:22:07
  initially said, no, you know, now I had to kind of have a self
• 1:22:10
  realization that cannot can I do this?
• 1:22:14
  You know, I think there was a misconception out there or maybe
• 1:22:19
  a preconception that that I would be the next head coach.
• 1:22:23
  I never, I never worked to that was Karen's job.
• 1:22:28
  It was never even come on as a goal of mine because I just that
• 1:22:32
  was carrying stuff. So really the conversation.
• 1:22:35
  Ation for myself and with Karen was but can I be a head coach?
• 1:22:40
  Can I be a head coach? And so to your point the
• 1:22:43
  question of all the things, you know, it wasn't really about
• 1:22:48
  where it was a matter of can. Can I do this somewhere else?
• 1:22:54
  Or you know, there is a level of confidence.
• 1:22:56
  Am I being protected by the brand?
• 1:22:58
  Am I being protected? Because I'm an Alum and you know
• 1:23:02
  it's easier for me. So, it really was a point that
• 1:23:08
  for myself as like I needed, I needed to challenge and it was,
• 1:23:14
  it was told that I needed the challenge, you know, to me.
• 1:23:18
  And so, you know, I got carrying out the call first.
• 1:23:23
  So, so I say that to say, I was open at that point to applying
• 1:23:28
  for head jobs, I didn't know where I wanted to go, I wasn't
• 1:23:31
  going to go anywhere. We talked to my family, I wasn't
• 1:23:34
  just going to go anywhere. And I wanted to know that it was
• 1:23:37
  somewhere that was going to support the sport.
• 1:23:40
  So Karen actually got the call you know, from the the ad at
• 1:23:45
  Southern Illinois at the time and he he had worked there for a
• 1:23:50
  while. He was a coach there.
• 1:23:52
  Football coach there became the ad was there during Johnny and
• 1:23:56
  kind are so it really didn't take, you know, I it doesn't
• 1:24:02
  take much to that math of putting two and two together.
• 1:24:05
  And, you know, kind of who's ready and the only reason I will
• 1:24:08
  say in it and I think this is important, there's a fine line
• 1:24:11
  for young coaches. You know, I wasn't trying to
• 1:24:15
  leave per se but when I decided it was really just in that year
• 1:24:19
  so long. Like I was working years.
• 1:24:20
  It was probably January. I'm like I think I got to do
• 1:24:23
  that this Summer that I started updating my resume and asking
• 1:24:29
  for references and Connie. I asked for reference and so and
• 1:24:34
  I say is important. Because some people have to know
• 1:24:38
  that you're looking in order to put you your name and in the
• 1:24:42
  room. The obvious misconception is
• 1:24:45
  that I was never going to leave, so no one was going to just call
• 1:24:49
  me, you know, I had to be able to say, hey, I'm looking, but
• 1:24:54
  then you have to be careful again.
• 1:24:56
  Everyone didn't know that. You know what?
• 1:24:57
  My three or four references new because you might get a call or
• 1:25:02
  you might get asked. So I think the timing of it all
• 1:25:07
  You got to be careful because you might get asked, you might
• 1:25:10
  get at not. And that's actually what
• 1:25:11
  happened because I didn't know much about the program, not
• 1:25:15
  like, there was a change that I knew was coming and Leadership
• 1:25:18
  there. So, you know, I wasn't asking
• 1:25:20
  her about going to her alma mater.
• 1:25:22
  I was just asking in general, but that job came open.
• 1:25:28
  The, the 80, their new, her trusted her and said, hey, I
• 1:25:31
  need some names and oh, you know, I already had this
• 1:25:36
  conversation. Here's a name and obviously I
• 1:25:38
  had to do the rest and so that's important as well.
• 1:25:41
  Because I didn't know they'd be so not like I just went down
• 1:25:43
  there and through Connie's name around.
• 1:25:46
  You know, you have to be prepared, you have to show some
• 1:25:48
  things that you're ready for it in the interview.
• 1:25:52
  But, you know, it definitely was.
• 1:25:55
  It was a little surreal, it was very scary because it was, it
• 1:25:58
  went from like I think I want to do this to like might actually
• 1:26:03
  get a chance to do this. I don't, you know, No, if I
• 1:26:05
  wanted to leave, I just wanted to see if I could do it and that
• 1:26:10
  was stuff. You know when I was offered the
• 1:26:12
  position I knew neither said no the phone I didn't want to just
• 1:26:17
  say no say you've grown you know the reaction you get is someone
• 1:26:27
  convincing you to take a job. So I did ask for 24 hours like,
• 1:26:32
  you know, I need to talk to my family and need to And that's
• 1:26:36
  actually not gotten this question.
• 1:26:38
  I talked with the sport administrator, that was here at
• 1:26:41
  Ohio State at the time. TJ Shelton, I asked to speak
• 1:26:44
  with Jean. I, you know, I spoke with Karen.
• 1:26:47
  I was asking questions going. Did they think I was ready to
• 1:26:50
  leave and leave and Lead? It had nothing to do with.
• 1:26:56
  You know I wasn't in contract negotiations.
• 1:26:59
  I wouldn't like it was none of those things.
• 1:27:01
  I needed some confirmation from people in the profession.
• 1:27:04
  That said no, you're ready. And so, and they all said that,
• 1:27:08
  like, to the point jokingly, you know, I feel like I accepted the
• 1:27:13
  job in tears because I really, I really wanted to go, but I
• 1:27:19
  didn't want to leave. And so, you know, the
• 1:27:22
  conversation with care and ultimately was the coaching tree
• 1:27:27
  doesn't grow if you don't move, you know.
• 1:27:29
  And so, you know, of all the things.
• 1:27:31
  And so I almost felt like I owed it to her, you know, of all the
• 1:27:34
  things that your Are you even still and the growth that I saw
• 1:27:37
  myself do if I only stay under her and no one else gets to hear
• 1:27:41
  all the benefits of of a caring than its Legacy and and then the
• 1:27:46
  representation. So, you know, even at at a, a
• 1:27:50
  smaller school or mid-major school, still want to probably a
• 1:27:54
  handful of women in the country at a division, one program, that
• 1:27:57
  was director over men's and women's track and field and
• 1:28:00
  cross country. And so, you know those things is
• 1:28:04
  like What more can I give to the sport?
• 1:28:08
  Where can I make an impact? I can stay comfortable and we're
• 1:28:12
  on that and you know, write it out or I can try and try and do
• 1:28:18
  something little greater. So you know, that that really it
• 1:28:25
  got to a point where I just felt like I needed to to Branch out
• 1:28:30
  for the growth of the coaching tree for the things I've
• 1:28:34
  learned. Can I can I do it kind of under
• 1:28:38
  you know without without the watchful eye, can I be the last
• 1:28:41
  call? What is the last call?
• 1:28:46
  And so and then to have the opportunity to do it.
• 1:28:49
  That's something that I now had grown to a point.
• 1:28:52
  I realized that is rare and that there's not a lot of women,
• 1:28:57
  especially black women that are going to get the call and say,
• 1:28:59
  hey, do you want to be a head coach anywhere?
• 1:29:02
  So, you know, to have the Going to be at a historic program.
• 1:29:07
  I mean, it's a little noisy program.
• 1:29:10
  Yeah, you know, it was it was an honor and so no, I definitely
• 1:29:15
  had picked that opportunity. I love the growth in the story
• 1:29:18
  from. Oh, I can coach any word.
• 1:29:20
  No one was the coach little. I can go anywhere to like
• 1:29:22
  realization of like, oh man. Not many people.
• 1:29:24
  Get this opportunity. Yeah.
• 1:29:27
  At the risk of running out of time.
• 1:29:29
  There's some value that I think you have that.
• 1:29:31
  I want to approach now, we may not Depend on your schedule.
• 1:29:36
  Your time here, we not even get to coming back to Iowa State.
• 1:29:38
  But there's a couple of things that I'd like to hear your
• 1:29:41
  opinion on. I'm going to start with.
• 1:29:44
  And I'm going to, I'm going to be, I'm gonna Channel my inner
• 1:29:46
  Karen, Dennis here would be very open and authentic, and
• 1:29:50
  vulnerable here realizing that. I'm a white male talking to a
• 1:29:54
  black females. I'm asked these questions with
• 1:29:56
  that. I have no clue about and I just
• 1:29:58
  want to hear your opinion. And what I'm thinking about here
• 1:30:01
  is, you know, I believe in Vacate for diversity in our
• 1:30:07
  coaching profession. You know, a lot of our athletes
• 1:30:11
  are female fact, it's roughly 50/50, right?
• 1:30:14
  I don't know what the percentage is of races black white asian.
• 1:30:18
  Hispanic Etc. But I know there are a lot of
• 1:30:20
  black athletes and then when I look at the coaching profession
• 1:30:24
  specifically on the college side, I'm talking here, I don't
• 1:30:27
  see a lot of black females is that fair?
• 1:30:31
  Let me start there to make sure I'm not misconceived and my
• 1:30:35
  Statement, it's, that's fair. Okay.
• 1:30:40
  And so I advocate for women, coaches and African-American
• 1:30:44
  black coaches as well, but I'm curious Rosalind in our culture.
• 1:30:49
  The male is typically the driver of the family where the male's
• 1:30:54
  career goes. That's where sorry about your
• 1:30:57
  job. And your passions, you were
• 1:30:59
  gonna go where the male takes us in the in the family, right?
• 1:31:04
  How have You and, you know, feel free to answer and not answer
• 1:31:09
  any of these questions are as one, right?
• 1:31:11
  There's no definitive that you have to use right in this but
• 1:31:14
  I'm curious. How do you navigate as a mom as
• 1:31:19
  a wife these are all extremely important roles.
• 1:31:22
  In fact, I would say that they are more important than your
• 1:31:25
  role as a coach that's my first job.
• 1:31:27
  Yeah, exactly. Even daughter.
• 1:31:30
  Those are things that are more important than our profession of
• 1:31:34
  coaching and you know Know how much I love the profession of
• 1:31:36
  coaching years. I don't say that lightly how
• 1:31:39
  have you navigated you started into the story of Auburn and
• 1:31:44
  where the now husband was like a man.
• 1:31:46
  I'm not giving you ultimatums but this is how it's gonna be if
• 1:31:50
  you want to take the next steps here.
• 1:31:52
  Now you have a great family unit.
• 1:31:54
  You have three beautiful children.
• 1:31:56
  You have gone from Columbus to Carbondale.
• 1:31:59
  Now, back to Columbus. How have you guys navigated that
• 1:32:03
  the mom? In this case, the wife, Rosalyn
• 1:32:06
  is going to be a driver of this family as it regards as it
• 1:32:09
  relates to location. Etc.
• 1:32:12
  No. You know, I tell everybody, my
• 1:32:14
  husband, my best recruit, you know, any of that, please, that
• 1:32:17
  I've coached that it's not even, it's not even comparable, you
• 1:32:23
  know? And I think he's done a great
• 1:32:25
  job of meeting me as a student athlete, you know.
• 1:32:29
  So I'm on the road then he was not a student athlete.
• 1:32:32
  And I think that's important for you know, I met someone That
• 1:32:35
  he's not a student athlete. So it's not like, oh, I
• 1:32:40
  understand the lifestyle, but even to this day, he's pretty,
• 1:32:47
  you know, pretty well one. And it's all right.
• 1:32:50
  He he's he's probably actually made my associate head coach.
• 1:32:56
  So he, you probably never seen him cry.
• 1:32:59
  Not a lot of track meets look now, but I'd be a lot of kids.
• 1:33:02
  So, you know, he he has his job. But he does a great job and he's
• 1:33:06
  a management of just helping me of how you talk to people.
• 1:33:09
  You know, what's, what are the things, and how you're trying to
• 1:33:12
  structure. But we have a lot of
• 1:33:14
  conversation, which is nice, but he always is envious that you,
• 1:33:20
  you love your job. You love it.
• 1:33:23
  And I love that our kids get to see you loving your job, you
• 1:33:28
  know? So early on it was it was tough,
• 1:33:30
  you know, I didn't know how we were going to maneuver things
• 1:33:33
  and that's My family has been so for them, I come for from a
• 1:33:39
  family of High School coaches, they made to them.
• 1:33:42
  This is, I am living their dream.
• 1:33:44
  So, you know, they loved it. You know, where are you going
• 1:33:46
  this week? My dad will text me the
• 1:33:49
  schedule. You know, I figure, you know,
• 1:33:52
  the 202 that this time. That's so awesome.
• 1:34:06
  You know, so that aspect I think helps with, with our children's.
• 1:34:10
  Because they also understand that, you know, my job may
• 1:34:14
  present some difficulties challenge or challenges with
• 1:34:18
  travel. And so family has been graded
• 1:34:21
  three hours away in Louisville Kentucky.
• 1:34:24
  But you know, they're great about coming up or we'll send
• 1:34:26
  them down or you know that just just that kind of dynamic.
• 1:34:30
  His is awesome. But then they are my husband's
• 1:34:33
  been great about just I like that our children get to see
• 1:34:37
  presume pre pursuing your dream. I like, you know, he was more
• 1:34:42
  aware that this is kind of a rarity and so, you know, of our,
• 1:34:47
  her daughter can see you doing it and that does give some
• 1:34:50
  opportunity. If you can do anything, you want
• 1:34:53
  to do type of thing. And so I mean if anything, you
• 1:34:57
  know, he's been the driver and making sure I stay in it and and
• 1:35:02
  but I will say he's been very very open.
• 1:35:04
  He said now To do all this. You got to win.
• 1:35:08
  I mean, that's it. You say you can't come home, I
• 1:35:10
  realized that that's that is the motivation.
• 1:35:13
  So the only way, the only way I get to get to stay in coaching
• 1:35:17
  and if I went to buy it you know I can't be doing all the moving
• 1:35:21
  and you know and the kids you know, you love the kids and you
• 1:35:26
  come home and tell me your last. So yeah.
• 1:35:29
  But you know that that is motivating as well.
• 1:35:32
  And I think it is a good reminder.
• 1:35:33
  When you do something, you do it.
• 1:35:34
  Well, Because there are a lot of people that are impacted by it,
• 1:35:39
  but I think initially, I thought and it's difficult with the
• 1:35:43
  travel, but I think initially, I thought that you could not be a
• 1:35:47
  coach and be a mom. My first child pregnant.
• 1:35:52
  I remember having to ask an athlete.
• 1:35:54
  Ask me like, damn, I miss you. I where am I going?
• 1:35:57
  Just so, you get out of coconut on top.
• 1:36:00
  I think the competitor me took that almost personal coming back
• 1:36:04
  here. Well, I'm glad you brought that
• 1:36:08
  story because that actually leads me to kind of a follow-up
• 1:36:10
  question. Assuming that there are women
• 1:36:14
  coaches or people who want to be women, coaches listening right
• 1:36:18
  now. What advice as a mom times 3, it
• 1:36:22
  doesn't get any easier. I have to I don't know how
• 1:36:24
  anybody has more than two right now.
• 1:36:26
  It's man on man defense here has got a good Zone.
• 1:36:30
  Yeah, anytime I see a family with more into I'm like oh God
• 1:36:34
  bless you like it. It's hard for us.
• 1:36:36
  How do you do it? This is voodoo magic at that
• 1:36:39
  point, but what advice would you give?
• 1:36:42
  Because we do have a tendency to have women coaches, who have
• 1:36:47
  children and then exit out of the profession.
• 1:36:51
  Whether they go to a different profession or stay home with and
• 1:36:54
  my wife works from home. So the whole stay at home work
• 1:36:57
  from home, Mom, God bless because our family could not
• 1:37:01
  operate without my wife so I know she doesn't listen but
• 1:37:04
  shout out. Life for that.
• 1:37:06
  So they go and do other things because they feel whether it's
• 1:37:09
  an internal, I shouldn't say. Because this here's my
• 1:37:12
  assumptions that they feel an internal pressure to stay home
• 1:37:15
  with children, or they feel an external pressure of you can't
• 1:37:18
  do this job. If you have children.
• 1:37:20
  What advice do you have for women to be that?
• 1:37:25
  You're successful. You've done it.
• 1:37:27
  You you are at least today writing the Playbook of how to
• 1:37:29
  be a mom and be a successful Collegiate track coach.
• 1:37:32
  What advice do you have for women out there that maybe think
• 1:37:34
  they Can't do it. No, no I get I get asked this
• 1:37:39
  question. I wish I knew the right answer
• 1:37:41
  to make sure that, you know, it's conveyed because it's hard
• 1:37:45
  and every day is a challenge every year, the challenge for
• 1:37:48
  some years and like I, you know, am I not being the best mom and
• 1:37:52
  then there's some years where? Again, my kids love it, they
• 1:37:57
  love it, you know, when it comes to the track and just hang out
• 1:38:00
  so there's definitely a balance there, but you mentioned kind of
• 1:38:04
  the Or the external pressures and it's I can is that usually?
• 1:38:09
  It's always both, it's always both, you know.
• 1:38:13
  So even if you're doing a great job, you feel like you're
• 1:38:15
  missing something else. If you're doing great at home,
• 1:38:18
  you feel like you're missing something at work.
• 1:38:20
  And the one thing when you talk about representation, it's not
• 1:38:24
  just gender and it's not just race or ethnicity.
• 1:38:28
  It is roles and family roles you know a lot of what you know to
• 1:38:34
  your first question. In a lot of, I had to have a
• 1:38:37
  selfless husband that, you know, people look at the dynamic and
• 1:38:41
  say, so Dad is, you know, I tell her that my husband is a primary
• 1:38:46
  Caregivers for my kids you know with one kid that I felt bad
• 1:38:51
  about that. I felt like I was in upholding.
• 1:38:54
  What Mom should look like or what, you know, just but then to
• 1:38:59
  have, if you go to work and that's confirmed, or that's
• 1:39:03
  pointed out, or that You know, heart going, it makes you feel
• 1:39:07
  worse. Oh, you had to bring your kids,
• 1:39:09
  or where your kids are you doing something with your kids but I
• 1:39:13
  work for, you know, parents, you know, a surprise great nude art
• 1:39:18
  of us on the team. So I saw a dynamic of no.
• 1:39:21
  Okay, kid kids at the track and Carol is actually single mother
• 1:39:25
  in this profession at the time. And I just, if I'm honest there,
• 1:39:29
  I can't. I can't even imagine other than
• 1:39:32
  just the support group you have, but then when you get to work,
• 1:39:35
  So, when you're home, you got to feel like your children are in
• 1:39:38
  great hands, you know, whoever that may be spouse, use the
• 1:39:41
  grandparents, you know, even just caregivers sometimes they
• 1:39:46
  end up being former student athletes, who, you know, who
• 1:39:49
  knew your children, and you have to have that.
• 1:39:52
  But then so that way, when you go to work and I tell her, I
• 1:39:56
  went on when I'm at work, I try and work hard.
• 1:39:59
  I try and, you know, do all the things so that when I can't be
• 1:40:02
  here, I'm not I'm not using being a mom as an excuse to get
• 1:40:07
  out of work. I am always a mom.
• 1:40:10
  So yeah, things come up but I like working for parents people
• 1:40:15
  that understand and not just I think I it gets a bad rap of the
• 1:40:20
  mom. The mom the mom because of the
• 1:40:23
  gender roles that are assumed, but I would hope.
• 1:40:26
  And I told you early, I'm a self-proclaimed, Daddy's, girl,
• 1:40:29
  I would hope that the father's know they're always just as
• 1:40:33
  important in the home. So, you know, The things that
• 1:40:36
  the doctors appointments and the laundry.
• 1:40:39
  I hope the men are doing it as well, and understand that
• 1:40:42
  there's just some balance sometimes, not that I have to be
• 1:40:45
  gone. But that, you know, the dynamic
• 1:40:48
  of the staff is that people have lives.
• 1:40:50
  You have to do it. If you were a teacher, if you
• 1:40:52
  know, he worked at the bank, like there's going to be days.
• 1:40:54
  Kids are sick, why can't we make it, an inclusive environment and
• 1:40:59
  athletic that? Yeah, I'm out.
• 1:41:01
  Today, I have a sick kid that happen.
• 1:41:05
  I'm not, you know, I'm not letting anyone down at work and
• 1:41:09
  I think that that doesn't get confirmed a lot, you know, even
• 1:41:14
  when people are like, oh, I'm so sorry.
• 1:41:16
  I mean, that's the first thing I hear.
• 1:41:17
  I'm so sorry. There are sick and he goes and
• 1:41:20
  sick. If, you know, car Broken Eyes.
• 1:41:24
  Here's where everything else is a reason in the kids kids,
• 1:41:28
  almost become an excuse. Hey, I'm sorry, I can't read you
• 1:41:32
  can't be here, you know, you can't be here as long as I.
• 1:41:35
  I know, you know, now in this role that when you are here,
• 1:41:37
  you're working hard and that's what I try and do that.
• 1:41:40
  I work hard when I can because there's some times.
• 1:41:43
  Yeah I'm at my first job and that's okay, you know, that's
• 1:41:48
  okay. I'm always just amazed at
• 1:41:52
  spouses of track coaches you know I mean there's it's an
• 1:41:57
  amazing profession one that I admittedly as I did it for 10
• 1:42:01
  years, never could have a consistent, proper relationship.
• 1:42:05
  You know, first of all, I am the guy when people talk about Job
• 1:42:07
  hopping, I coach for 10 years and has at five different
• 1:42:09
  institutions. So, I was never in the same
• 1:42:12
  place and it was all over Indiana, Illinois, Mississippi
• 1:42:16
  Alabama, all over the place Kansas.
• 1:42:19
  So, so, when I look at, like, I always think of the example, I
• 1:42:23
  always use is Pat Henry's wife, because she's always at eats and
• 1:42:26
  I'm just like, God bless you. Like you have been playing a lot
• 1:42:29
  of track meets. You've had children that you've
• 1:42:32
  helped raise and it, Pat is gone a lot.
• 1:42:34
  I'm You mean like that's it's is amazing and you and you guys
• 1:42:38
  have been together and stuck it out through the thick and thin
• 1:42:41
  like it's so impressive. What's your husband's name?
• 1:42:43
  If you don't mind, Dexter, Dexter, cause I know you're
• 1:42:47
  listening Dexter. My man, a lot of times in our
• 1:42:50
  head, right or wrong. When I talk about spouses of
• 1:42:53
  coaches, I think of the moms, the wives Dexter, man, you are
• 1:42:58
  keeping it down, man. We couldn't have an amazing
• 1:43:00
  person like this in our profession, if it weren't for
• 1:43:02
  you so you don't hear it enough, I know.
• 1:43:05
  New you do here Dexter but you don't hear it enough.
• 1:43:07
  My man. Thank you for what you do as a
• 1:43:09
  spouse of an amazing individual, who chooses to be a track coach
• 1:43:13
  of your kids are better for it. Your family units are better
• 1:43:16
  for, it's going to be amazing. The Legacy that both of y'all
• 1:43:18
  are leaving the with your children and what they're going
• 1:43:21
  to do and then their children, it starts with you because it
• 1:43:24
  started with your parents and Dexter's parents and and the
• 1:43:27
  family System Route. So Dexter man.
• 1:43:28
  Shout out again, appreciate that.
• 1:43:31
  And what you do, That as a Christmas gift.
• 1:43:39
  Pretty good. Well exactly.
• 1:43:41
  It's true. So Russell, I want to be
• 1:43:43
  cognizant of your time. We are at the end of the time
• 1:43:46
  that we scheduled. Okay.
• 1:43:48
  We do. We have more time or?
• 1:43:49
  No, you tell me. You have about I got about 15
• 1:43:55
  more minutes. Okay done by 12:30.
• 1:43:58
  Okay. All right I got it cuz the other
• 1:44:00
  part that I was interested in as you were talking about the
• 1:44:02
  transition to Carbondale and again I just start thinking
• 1:44:05
  about all this value that you have.
• 1:44:07
  And so how do we get the value that's in your head in your
• 1:44:10
  experiences out to the masses is there are coaches that want to
• 1:44:14
  be head coaches, their assistant coaches that want to be head
• 1:44:17
  coaches, and they're going to have much like you at
• 1:44:20
  Carbondale. They're going to have their
• 1:44:21
  first interview. They're gonna have their first
• 1:44:24
  job offer at cetera. Can you talk to us about the
• 1:44:27
  preparation that you put in for not to be the head coach?
• 1:44:32
  But to the interview process, you already talked a lot about
• 1:44:35
  the references and the be careful, which I'm gonna put it
• 1:44:38
  in my words. Be careful what you ask for,
• 1:44:40
  because it might happen. But even towards spoiler alert,
• 1:44:44
  she goes from Carbondale to the Ohio State University.
• 1:44:47
  So you had to again, do the process of interviewing
• 1:44:50
  preparing resume references and Cetera, can you talk to To us,
• 1:44:53
  give us advice to assistant coaches, that are going to have
• 1:44:57
  their first interviews opportunities to become head.
• 1:45:02
  Coaches. What did you do to prepare for
• 1:45:05
  these opportunities? The actual kind of blocking
• 1:45:08
  tackling, not the, you know, I made sure I didn't scheduling do
• 1:45:12
  those kind of things, real concrete advice that people can
• 1:45:15
  use. Well, I mean, I think, you know,
• 1:45:18
  the first thing is, it is a little subjective with people
• 1:45:23
  and All the people, you say protective of your good name,
• 1:45:26
  the people you have around you what they're saying in the room
• 1:45:29
  matters and I think we're, you know, in the conversation I said
• 1:45:32
  I mentioned I had with Gene Smith before I left.
• 1:45:36
  You know, he made the comment that when you leave a place in
• 1:45:40
  good standing, you're always an internal candidate.
• 1:45:44
  And I I got it. But I you know, I wasn't, I was
• 1:45:47
  just kind of listening in general, but, you know, I think
• 1:45:51
  that incoming, In back to, to be Ohio, State University, you
• 1:45:57
  know, Jesus called me and well, I know he has my number but I
• 1:46:03
  didn't think he had my number but you know by the way if you
• 1:46:05
  don't know who Gene Smith is the listeners.
• 1:46:08
  If you were to put together a list of the top 20 most
• 1:46:11
  influential people in Collegiate Athletics and not track and
• 1:46:15
  field. Collegiate Athletics, Jean Smith
• 1:46:18
  would be in the top five. I mean, this is a gentleman who
• 1:46:21
  lots of experience. BCS influential their power 5,
• 1:46:26
  Etc. This like this is quite
• 1:46:28
  interesting to me that you're talking about, first of all that
• 1:46:30
  you wouldn't talk to Jean Smith cause I'm like, woohoo.
• 1:46:33
  I feel like there's always, there's a handful people that
• 1:46:35
  are allowed to talk to Jean Smith, right?
• 1:46:37
  But then that a Gene Smith is this obviously caring about
• 1:46:41
  track and field. I love to hear this.
• 1:46:43
  It was like, yeah. Deputy you do track and field
• 1:46:45
  I'm worried about. Yeah, that's that's winter.
• 1:46:47
  Sorry. I didn't what I'm sorry, he's
• 1:46:50
  always he's always open to growth of people and That's why
• 1:46:54
  I asked me but them, I just wanted to be a better head coach
• 1:46:57
  again had nothing to do with the Ohio State.
• 1:47:00
  I just want to be able to represent myself and get some
• 1:47:02
  insight and the university I was going to.
• 1:47:05
  But, you know, when he made the comment about being internal
• 1:47:08
  candidate, then it gets, you know, kind of since with you
• 1:47:11
  would, I didn't think much of it.
• 1:47:13
  That wasn't the goal, but in calling and, you know, he made a
• 1:47:17
  call a few days before all the announcements.
• 1:47:19
  And here's I'm thinking here, I mean, just the car.
• 1:47:23
  Faces were having about this position opening up and what he
• 1:47:29
  was looking for, I ask, why me? And this time it was, you know,
• 1:47:33
  it was less about, it wasn't me, it wasn't me, not being
• 1:47:37
  confident, it wasn't that, you know, I was going to say no, but
• 1:47:42
  I needed, I needed to know what it was.
• 1:47:44
  A person is hiring you, what they were looking for, what they
• 1:47:46
  saw that I had as a leader to make sure that it continued to
• 1:47:51
  fit their vision for the program.
• 1:47:54
  And you know, one of the things he mentioned and it's it goes
• 1:47:57
  back to you know you say the concrete things but it really is
• 1:48:02
  the little thing. I'm a firm believer you catch
• 1:48:05
  more flies with honey and so you know he mentioned he talked to
• 1:48:10
  me I've never been asked X's and O's I've never been asked how
• 1:48:14
  many all Americans I've had on an interview.
• 1:48:17
  I've never been asked how many you know Conference champions
• 1:48:21
  you know they asked me about Staffing Budget compliance but
• 1:48:25
  then your work with people. And so you know he made the
• 1:48:29
  comment that everyone here love me and I thought you know,
• 1:48:35
  that's nice. I've been there and you said no
• 1:48:37
  no no. Like you know who I'm thinking
• 1:48:40
  it was just a for I needed to know you like the business
• 1:48:44
  office compliance facilities. You know, people that you
• 1:48:48
  interact with every day who excited about your presence in
• 1:48:52
  the things that you bring. NG as in ad is administrator,
• 1:48:56
  that's what they're looking for. And I think that's something I
• 1:48:58
  do. Now want to want to costumes,
• 1:49:01
  you know, caution young coaches, coming coming into the business.
• 1:49:05
  I always worked, you know, not for the next job I wanted to do
• 1:49:09
  good where I was at and make the head coach look good.
• 1:49:13
  You know, so that I was I was carrying out the vision if it
• 1:49:16
  wasn't going to fit or or I didn't think it was good that I
• 1:49:19
  need to leave but I was never going to try and you know,
• 1:49:22
  insert my Open to someone else's role or somebody else's vision
• 1:49:28
  and then I just worked hard and did the things that needed to be
• 1:49:32
  done. I think sometimes, and
• 1:49:35
  unfortunately, I think for the women, they'll do all the things
• 1:49:39
  and feel like they don't get credit for it, do the things you
• 1:49:41
  need to do. Don't do everything sometimes,
• 1:49:45
  you got to delegate, sometimes you gotta say no, because
• 1:49:47
  they're not productive to your development.
• 1:49:49
  You know, there's things that I knew I wasn't in the business.
• 1:49:53
  This office because I was trying to get, you know, get hired one
• 1:49:57
  day and hope that they put in a good reference, I was there
• 1:49:59
  because I was day-to-day stuff I needed to do, but I knew that
• 1:50:03
  interactions with them. They are the ones that speak on
• 1:50:07
  your name, so, then whatever you're doing, you're doing it.
• 1:50:10
  Well, treat people the right way because they're the ones that
• 1:50:13
  are actually given the references.
• 1:50:16
  You know, nobody, gerund in is, was a reference.
• 1:50:20
  I mean, I'm sure Dean spoke to her but then the day, That's not
• 1:50:24
  who he had, you recognize people in the department that I had had
• 1:50:28
  interactions with, who knew how hard I worked because I, you
• 1:50:31
  know, I did a good job or did a thorough job, you know how you
• 1:50:35
  communicate, how often and how? Well and then essentially doing
• 1:50:41
  my job to my job. I think another thing I cautious
• 1:50:45
  I never wanted to come off as the head coach.
• 1:50:48
  As I said, people would call and say, what do you think?
• 1:50:50
  Karen will say and I love you gotta call her that I never
• 1:50:53
  wanted it to be over eyes instead because that that wasn't
• 1:50:57
  my job. But I was smart enough to know
• 1:51:01
  that then I would go tell Karen. Yeah somebody's been calling ask
• 1:51:05
  you this question so she wasn't caught off guard but sometimes
• 1:51:08
  your role is the middle person. But I learned a lot about the
• 1:51:12
  ins and outs of the of the job just during that time and the
• 1:51:16
  people along the way are the ones that really gave me the
• 1:51:19
  references. And I think, you know, as you as
• 1:51:22
  you Move along and you meet people to your point.
• 1:51:26
  You just want to be genuine and authentic and be realistic about
• 1:51:30
  what you're trying to do. I think if you walk around just
• 1:51:32
  saying, you want to be a head coach that that wasn't what I
• 1:51:34
  was saying. I just wanted to leave and do a
• 1:51:37
  good job and be supported the people that see that will
• 1:51:42
  they'll make good recommendations on your name but
• 1:51:45
  you got to be visible to a point.
• 1:51:47
  Yeah, that is really good advice.
• 1:51:49
  There Roslin is. We you said you know, no one One
• 1:51:53
  has ever asked, you how many all Americans?
• 1:51:55
  How do you coach this group Etc? They asked you about leadership
• 1:52:00
  and compliance, and the business part things like that.
• 1:52:03
  So, if we're out there wondering, why haven't we gotten
• 1:52:06
  our shot as a head coach, I've coached x amount of all
• 1:52:08
  Americans X. Cool records.
• 1:52:10
  Mmm. That's not.
• 1:52:12
  What administration's looking for.
• 1:52:13
  That might be we haven't we haven't talked about this and we
• 1:52:16
  won't have time to talk about this today.
• 1:52:17
  With our eyes on, that might be what a head coach is looking
• 1:52:19
  for, to hire an assistant coach, maybe we'll have that Maybe at a
• 1:52:23
  later time but when we're talking about becoming a head
• 1:52:26
  coach, you nailed it. I don't know if I'm paraphrasing
• 1:52:30
  or not, you might have actually said these.
• 1:52:32
  This words exactly this is a people business you might be on
• 1:52:36
  the track coaching, but you're working with that business
• 1:52:39
  person with the compliance officer, with all the other
• 1:52:42
  stuff that I naturally student athlete or lumps.
• 1:52:46
  Yeah, that's that's really really good advice.
• 1:52:49
  Okay, Roslin we are. Your time is so important.
• 1:52:52
  I'm so, so Thankful. We are going to wrap it up to
• 1:52:54
  wrap it up today. You're now the director of track
• 1:52:57
  and field at the Ohio State University.
• 1:52:59
  It's a top, top top job, there's hardly anybody that would say
• 1:53:04
  that they would not want that job, not knowing what the job
• 1:53:06
  actually entails. I was super impressed and maybe
• 1:53:10
  I should expect this from the Ohio State University.
• 1:53:12
  I don't know. I love this for all of our
• 1:53:13
  institutions, when you got named the new director of training
• 1:53:17
  field, I love all the Fanfare that they did on social media.
• 1:53:22
  I think you were announced that a Football game or something
• 1:53:24
  like that as well. Things like that.
• 1:53:25
  Like, I love that pageantry because our track and field
• 1:53:28
  coach has deserve it. It shouldn't be just for the
• 1:53:31
  football or basketball coach Etc.
• 1:53:33
  So, Bravo to the leadership of the Ohio State University to
• 1:53:36
  recognize, hey, we have a new head coach, that is important in
• 1:53:40
  our school. It's also a school that has a
• 1:53:42
  hundred different sports by the way.
• 1:53:43
  So again for them to recognize that is quite quite amazing,
• 1:53:48
  your anything 36-foot, I can't name 64.
• 1:53:53
  It's quite amazing. I have a will run out of time.
• 1:53:56
  Exactly. Right there.
• 1:53:57
  They're all great year and it is nice to be among some Elite
• 1:54:01
  coaches. Yeah.
• 1:54:01
  Oh yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I can only imagine.
• 1:54:05
  So what is you? Your it's November when people
• 1:54:09
  are listening right now. So you are three, four months
• 1:54:12
  into the job. What's got you excited about
• 1:54:15
  this? This rookie season as the
• 1:54:17
  Director of track and field at the Ohio State University?
• 1:54:19
  What's got you excited? All of it, you know, all of it.
• 1:54:23
  Think you're always nervous about how this do nasty will
• 1:54:26
  receive you. Because really, I was gone for
• 1:54:28
  years everyone here now at, you know, come on Maya recruited.
• 1:54:32
  But I don't know any of the student-athletes and so, you
• 1:54:36
  know, just how well they receive you, the staff, you know, that
• 1:54:41
  that's here did retain for. So, you know, they have some
• 1:54:44
  continuity with just leadership under care and the respect they
• 1:54:48
  have for the program's, they're diligent in they're working,
• 1:54:51
  they're working relationship. I mean, I know I mentioned
• 1:54:54
  server goatee, Mason Virgo, tea earlier.
• 1:54:58
  She's now head over our men's and women's all across country
• 1:55:01
  and distance program. She's again, I had the
• 1:55:04
  opportunity to work with her. When we were just a women's
• 1:55:07
  program, Joel Brown as associate head coach, who's, you know, it
• 1:55:12
  is actually a former teammate of mine.
• 1:55:14
  I don't think we get to that point.
• 1:55:15
  That's right, that's right. Yeah.
• 1:55:17
  So, you know, I know who I know his love for this program as
• 1:55:20
  well retain, Victor. With the jumps and multi that
• 1:55:24
  was one, you know, everyone asks, I knew in this position, I
• 1:55:28
  couldn't be the jumps multi-code for everybody.
• 1:55:31
  So you know it's important to retain and he, you know, had a
• 1:55:36
  great season with some of the jumps in multi people.
• 1:55:39
  He was working with so and then Travis Coleman in the throw.
• 1:55:43
  So I mean you know who the national national champion and
• 1:55:47
  National Record holder. Now the shot.
• 1:55:49
  I mean it really was, I felt like Auburn.
• 1:55:53
  Then, you know, I walk into this top tier program thing, what do
• 1:55:59
  you need me for? But, you know, just just to
• 1:56:02
  bring the energy and the excitement of being back home.
• 1:56:08
  You know, I want that to be conveyed to our student
• 1:56:10
  athletes. How great of a place.
• 1:56:12
  This is the things that they can Garner, you know, after track
• 1:56:16
  and field after cross country at a place like this and just add
• 1:56:20
  value to their whole experience. I think will show up on the
• 1:56:25
  track, you know, wants to feel like, you know, this is the
• 1:56:28
  place that you can do anything you want to do, you know, it
• 1:56:32
  really shows and their performances.
• 1:56:35
  So I'm excited about it. All, inside about the staff
• 1:56:38
  student athlete takes and I'm back back home, second home and
• 1:56:42
  so all of it, it's different. It's all right.
• 1:56:46
  They're like, well, you know, it's like, yeah.
• 1:56:47
  But I've been getting the second to last call last time.
• 1:56:50
  Now I'm getting a last call, so it's different.
• 1:56:53
  It's different, but but it's all exciting.
• 1:56:56
  My follow-up question was going to be to have you.
• 1:56:59
  Shout out your staff and of course you beat me to the punch.
• 1:57:02
  You did Miss because he's one of my very dear friends and your
• 1:57:04
  newest coach, I know, I know. Okay.
• 1:57:08
  So give us your newest, Sprint Turtles coach there as well.
• 1:57:11
  Yeah, so obviously you know it. Hey fans and replace Karen
• 1:57:15
  dance. That's just not even possible.
• 1:57:17
  But, you know that the the Sprint Turtle area has been, you
• 1:57:22
  know, a large Contributing factor for us.
• 1:57:24
  I wanted to make sure of the area that had, you know, people
• 1:57:27
  there then want to put it on. Just one coach.
• 1:57:30
  I know they'll round can do it all, but it's not fair to him
• 1:57:33
  either. And so brought in Diego placker
• 1:57:36
  from that University of Miami. But I actually, I know, we're
• 1:57:42
  short on time. I actually the job I left at
• 1:57:46
  Auburn in 2008. He came in after me in that role
• 1:57:52
  about a year. To remove a year and a half
• 1:57:54
  remove. So I know his mentor's.
• 1:57:57
  I know that, you know, the path that he had and so we share we
• 1:58:02
  share a lot of Jerry, Clayton and Ralph's fry stories and
• 1:58:04
  stuff. You know, it's nice that it's
• 1:58:07
  weird to come full circle because again we never work
• 1:58:09
  together. But we just have, you know,
• 1:58:12
  similar paths and similar mentors.
• 1:58:14
  And so you know and I was looking for he was in that jumps
• 1:58:18
  position initially what I was doing and wanted to you know
• 1:58:22
  have some A little bit of that background as well.
• 1:58:26
  It just, it just was a good fit, it's a good fit.
• 1:58:29
  So. And then I want to shout out my
• 1:58:30
  director of operations fredbear because I told Fred, of course
• 1:58:34
  yes yes, yeah, you need you to like say you need good people to
• 1:58:38
  make it run. Yeah.
• 1:58:41
  You really do have an amazing staff all the way through even
• 1:58:44
  even Fred. Don't fret for quite a while
• 1:58:46
  now. He's a great guy.
• 1:58:47
  Diego is a gill connections Alum so you know that's what happened
• 1:58:51
  out there and Joel Brown And Joel Brown is still one of the
• 1:58:55
  for some reason this is just perception for me, one of the
• 1:58:58
  more underrated coaches in our and still, I don't know why
• 1:59:01
  because he produces any such a consummate professional like
• 1:59:05
  Joel just gets it. Done.
• 1:59:07
  He's not a loud flashy guy. I think maybe that's why he
• 1:59:10
  doesn't get the kind of outside tension, but I also feel like I
• 1:59:13
  know Joe will enough. He doesn't need it either.
• 1:59:15
  He just wants to do great, the great for his alma mater.
• 1:59:18
  So your staff, they're saying, I mean, Lord, you really do have
• 1:59:21
  kind of a knockout. I feel like I'm I feel like I'm
• 1:59:24
  the scrubs. I think they they make my job
• 1:59:26
  easy but you know, I to just really the concept and the theme
• 1:59:31
  of the podcast. It's about the people around.
• 1:59:34
  It really is it really is. Well, you are one heck of a
• 1:59:38
  scrub, my friend. So I did not think I was gonna
• 1:59:41
  be able to call the head coach of you has a university of
• 1:59:44
  scrimmage, he's podcast, but, you know, I'm thinking it's a,
• 1:59:47
  it's an all good terms here for today.
• 1:59:50
  So, Rosalind. Thank you so much, you know.
• 1:59:53
  No problem. Thank you.
• 1:59:54
  One of the most valuable things that you can give us is your
• 1:59:57
  time. And so I'm always thankful.
• 1:59:59
  There is no busy time. There is no non busy time for
• 2:00:03
  coaches, you're busy recruiting right now.
• 2:00:05
  Getting ready for January when indoor get started.
• 2:00:09
  And you guys will be you know, vying for more Big, Ten titles
• 2:00:13
  and your you know it was just great to really kind of can see
• 2:00:16
  your personality as it relates to your leadership.
• 2:00:19
  So I think there's a ton of value.
• 2:00:21
  I easily could have gone to more Because I think there's, you
• 2:00:24
  know, being a relatively young coach and young head coach
• 2:00:27
  still. Today, you've got a lot of
• 2:00:29
  experience and a lot of unique ways of looking at the world in
• 2:00:33
  a very positive manner and I just think there's so much value
• 2:00:37
  in that I am so thankful for what you did give to our
• 2:00:39
  listeners today. I think it was a super home run
• 2:00:42
  here man. Just really awesome.
• 2:00:44
  Thank you. I appreciate that.
• 2:00:45
  Appreciate you having me on? Absolutely?
• 2:00:47
  Well, you're hard. You're in demand like I said
• 2:00:49
  you're just on that thought of jealousy and now here, who
• 2:00:51
  knows? Maybe it's Johnny.
• 2:00:53
  Listen. What not.
• 2:00:54
  But I don't know. I'm selective again.
• 2:00:56
  Okay, good. But also, you know, I don't know
• 2:01:00
  how the stories being told, so I like to be leading this story.
• 2:01:05
  That's right, that's it. Well, thank you again for being
• 2:01:08
  here today. At the Gila FedEx connections
• 2:01:09
  podcast, where we uplift, an honor, the Journey of coaches
• 2:01:12
  around the country. And, you know, today we had
• 2:01:14
  another home run. Like I said here, I'm so
• 2:01:16
  excited. I hope you'll join us next week
• 2:01:19
  and receive some value next week when we have another guest on
• 2:01:22
  the show. So, Go out.
• 2:01:23
  Have a great week. Thank you.
• 2:01:33
  Thanks Mike what an incredible journey coach has been on so
• 2:01:36
  awesome to hear their story in their own words, tremendous
• 2:01:38
  proof of the positive effect coaches, make on a daily basis.
• 2:01:42
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  You just might get a shout out on a future episode.
• 2:01:52
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• 2:01:54
  connect you with another amazing.
• 2:01:57
  Coach. Coach.