Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / The truth about millionaire pedophile Jeffrey Epstein and the woman who helped him. Part 2

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The truth about millionaire pedophile Jeffrey Epstein and the woman who helped him. Part 2 · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: The final days of Jeffrey Epstein, culminating in finding him
0:09
Speaker 1: dead in his Gael cell. It's hard to believe that
0:14
Speaker 1: so many coincidences occurred to create a perfect storm. The
0:22
Speaker 1: not one guard, but two guards decided to take a
0:25
Speaker 1: nap and shop online. Both of them didn't do a
0:30
Speaker 1: single round, not one for their whole shift several hours,
0:36
Speaker 1: eight hours at least. The video recorder just happened not
0:42
Speaker 1: to be working, and or they preserved the wrong video
0:48
Speaker 1: the hours before the suicide. The actual death of Epstein
0:53
Speaker 1: his cellmate is removed, even though after a suicide, you're
0:57
Speaker 1: supposed to have a cellmate, a suicide attempt, supposed to
1:00
Speaker 1: have a sealemate. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, I Meancy Grace.
1:13
Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us,
1:15
Speaker 1: with me an all star panel to figure out what's next.
1:20
Speaker 1: James Shelonut with me twenty seven years Metro Major kse
1:24
Speaker 1: Swat officer retired now lawyer Bobby Jacoon, former special agent FBI,
1:30
Speaker 1: star of Facebook watch series Curse of Akacre. Professor Forensics,
1:34
Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.
1:39
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan renounce psychoanalyst out of Beverly Hills at
1:43
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Melissa Cronin, investigative journalist and
1:47
Speaker 1: co author of Epstein Dead Men Tell No Tales. Now,
1:52
Speaker 1: I've been around the block more times than I can count.
1:55
Speaker 1: I've been in more jails and I can even remember.
1:57
Speaker 1: And I can tell you the addition of his jail
2:01
Speaker 1: cell at the time of his death was highly irregular
2:06
Speaker 1: in many, many ways. To Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor forensics,
2:11
Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Now,
2:16
Speaker 1: let's just start with what you observed before we get
2:20
Speaker 1: into his autopsy. What you observed that was so wrong
2:25
Speaker 1: with his jail cell. These images that I've seen were provided,
2:28
Speaker 1: you know, from the sixty minutes special that was that
2:31
Speaker 1: was done, and I was shocked, I have to admit.
2:34
Speaker 1: You know, in in correctional facilities, prison facilities, it is
2:39
Speaker 1: paramount that that prisoners commonly keep their cell in an
2:45
Speaker 1: ordered fashion because you know, chaos and er it's like
2:47
Speaker 1: a child, you know, chaos in a room leads to
2:49
Speaker 1: chaos in the mind. It makes it very difficult to
2:52
Speaker 1: control people when you look at the interior of your cell, Nancy,
2:55
Speaker 1: and people can see this online. It's squalid. You know,
2:59
Speaker 1: you've got you've got piles of cloth laying everywhere. It's
3:02
Speaker 1: all orange cloth, mattress laying on the floor, and it's
3:06
Speaker 1: it's dirty. You can actually see stains on the floor.
3:09
Speaker 1: So yeah, I agree with what the gentleman said in
3:11
Speaker 1: the interview about it having potentially having bugs and lord
3:15
Speaker 1: only knows what else. But one of the things that's
3:17
Speaker 1: really troubling about this whole thing. Two major things. This
3:20
Speaker 1: guy's has recently been on suicide Watch, Okay, but yet
3:25
Speaker 1: when I take a look at these images, it's observable
3:29
Speaker 1: you can actually see what appears to be a hose
3:32
Speaker 1: laying on the floor that might be an inch and
3:34
Speaker 1: a half in diameter, it's kind of lengthy, and you
3:37
Speaker 1: can see an electrical cord that's laying on the floor. Now,
3:40
Speaker 1: these are something that can be used to facilitate as
3:44
Speaker 1: a ligature for hanging or for any other purpose that
3:47
Speaker 1: you might want to do. This nefarious And another piece
3:50
Speaker 1: to this, when you take a look at his top bump,
3:53
Speaker 1: there's two it's a two bump structure, the top bunk,
3:56
Speaker 1: the mattress is missing off of it, and this guy
3:59
Speaker 1: has gotten met occasions up there, He's allowed to keep
4:02
Speaker 1: his own medications in the cell. It's striking, you know
4:06
Speaker 1: when you consider about you know, you consider a lot
4:08
Speaker 1: of the correctional desks that I've worked. If a patient,
4:11
Speaker 1: if a prisoner slash patient is on meds, those have
4:15
Speaker 1: to be distributed by the infirmary. The nurse will come
4:19
Speaker 1: by along with a guard and they'll give you your
4:21
Speaker 1: daily meds. This guy had a slew of medications up there.
4:24
Speaker 1: So this whole thing is very, very troubling when you
4:28
Speaker 1: take a look at it in the context that he
4:30
Speaker 1: had allegedly previously attempted to kill himself. Listen, what we
4:34
Speaker 1: do know is that Jeffrey Epstein is dead. The fingerprints
4:38
Speaker 1: of the body and the morgue matched the fingerprints that
4:41
Speaker 1: were taken up Jeffrey Epstein from when he was booked
4:44
Speaker 1: in Florida. How long does the autopsy typically take it
4:47
Speaker 1: from the beginning name normally about two hours a routino autopsy.
4:52
Speaker 1: We spoke to multiple pathologists for this story, and they
4:55
Speaker 1: all pretty much agree on one thing. Without knowing the
4:58
Speaker 1: position of the body, way the Jeffrey Epstein's body was found,
5:02
Speaker 1: It's almost impossible to determine the cause of death with
5:06
Speaker 1: any certainty. Knowing the position that a body was found
5:10
Speaker 1: in is a key piece of evidence in any death investigation.
5:13
Speaker 1: And in this case, we don't know how Jeffrey Epstein's
5:16
Speaker 1: body was found. We still don't have that information. So
5:19
Speaker 1: if this was called a suicide without all that information,
5:23
Speaker 1: was a premature judgment. Hearing our friends at sixty minute
5:27
Speaker 1: and our friend doctor Michael Boden, who oversaw the autopsy
5:33
Speaker 1: without knowing the position of the body, no way to
5:36
Speaker 1: know the true cause of death. Joseph Scott Morgan, Friends's expert.
5:40
Speaker 1: Why well, you know, one of the problems is that
5:42
Speaker 1: what doctor Biden's talking about, he can't contextualize what he's
5:46
Speaker 1: seeing at autopsy along with what the findings aren't seeing,
5:49
Speaker 1: you know, and he doesn't know that because these people
5:52
Speaker 1: have been haven't provided a statement yet, they've locked it,
5:55
Speaker 1: they've been locked down, these guards and this sort of thing.
5:58
Speaker 1: So this is essential, you know, when you begin to
6:01
Speaker 1: think about this, and I'm reflecting back to one of
6:04
Speaker 1: the images that folks can see online. He's one of
6:09
Speaker 1: the things that doctor Biden is talking about. It's so
6:11
Speaker 1: perplexing is that Epstein has got a specific linear mark
6:15
Speaker 1: on his neck and it runs almost parallel to the shoulders.
6:19
Speaker 1: In other words, it's on the neck and it runs
6:21
Speaker 1: straight back. With hangings, typically what you're going to see
6:27
Speaker 1: is something called tinting feature T N T I N G,
6:31
Speaker 1: like a pup tent. That is that someone is hung,
6:35
Speaker 1: if they have hung themselves, for instance, the back of
6:39
Speaker 1: the noose that they have created will come to an
6:43
Speaker 1: acute point in the back of the head, and so
6:45
Speaker 1: it's going to pull the ligature mark up behind the ears. Typically,
6:49
Speaker 1: that's not what you're seeing in this image. And granted
6:52
Speaker 1: we're only limited. We have a limited view of this.
6:55
Speaker 1: I didn't see what Biden saw it to autopsy, and
6:57
Speaker 1: I certainly haven't seen all of the images. But just
7:00
Speaker 1: at first blush looking at this. This is why he's saying,
7:04
Speaker 1: this is not consistent with a typical hanging. I'm not
7:07
Speaker 1: saying it could be atypical, but it's it's just not
7:10
Speaker 1: typical of what you normally see in these downs cases.
7:13
Speaker 1: Typically with a hanging, you see a mark on the
7:17
Speaker 1: neck that looks like a V or a sharp smile
7:21
Speaker 1: because the ligature goes upwards in the back due to
7:24
Speaker 1: the pressure placed on the neck. Speaking of the pressure
7:28
Speaker 1: placed on the neck, there are three snaps in the neck,
7:32
Speaker 1: one on the right, one on the left, one of
7:33
Speaker 1: the highoid. Very unusual for a suicide, very rare. In fact,
7:38
Speaker 1: I've never seen multiple snaps in the neck when it
7:42
Speaker 1: was not a homicide in all my years of assessing
7:46
Speaker 1: homicides and suicides. Not once. Also, as Joseph's gott Morgan
7:51
Speaker 1: pointing it out, there is a horizontal line across Epstein's neck,
7:55
Speaker 1: not the typical V shape or smile shape left from
8:01
Speaker 1: a hanging. To hang oneself from the side of a
8:06
Speaker 1: bunk bed does not allow for any velocity at the
8:12
Speaker 1: hanging that you would see. For instance, when you watch
8:14
Speaker 1: a movie somebody gets hung they jump off something, or
8:17
Speaker 1: they're pushed off something, and that velocity actually can snap
8:22
Speaker 1: a bone in the neck. When you are easing yourself
8:25
Speaker 1: forward from a low bunk bed, you don't get that velocity.
8:30
Speaker 1: There should not have been any broken bones. To Melissa Cronin,
8:34
Speaker 1: journalist co author Epstein dead mentell no tells what do
8:38
Speaker 1: you make of the state of his cell and all
8:43
Speaker 1: of the coincidences, not one, not two, but eight, nine,
8:47
Speaker 1: ten coincidences leading up to his death. It really, every
8:51
Speaker 1: single piece of information that comes out about this over
8:55
Speaker 1: the last few months just makes me more and more incredulous.
9:00
Speaker 1: One of the first things that I heard about kind
9:03
Speaker 1: of his state of mind in this period was when
9:05
Speaker 1: I spoke to a man who had visited with him
9:08
Speaker 1: a week before he supposedly committed suicide for the final time,
9:12
Speaker 1: a man named David Shone, an attorney from Georgia. He
9:16
Speaker 1: was a longtime friend of Epstein, who visited with him
9:19
Speaker 1: on August first, and he said that he was in
9:21
Speaker 1: great spirit and that he was planning for the next
9:24
Speaker 1: stage of his legal fight. So from that moment forward,
9:29
Speaker 1: everything that happened seems totally counter to what you might
9:32
Speaker 1: expect from a man in that position, and leading up
9:36
Speaker 1: until the photos that came out just over a little
9:39
Speaker 1: week ago. It's just I'm still trying to wrap my
9:42
Speaker 1: head around it. Honestly, If he well, when is it,
9:47
Speaker 1: Melissa that his lawyers last spoke to him, wasn't in
9:50
Speaker 1: the hours just before his death. If they were meeting
9:52
Speaker 1: with him every single day when he was in jail,
9:55
Speaker 1: so yes, they saw him just a few hours before
9:58
Speaker 1: he supposedly committed suicide. And although he did change as
10:03
Speaker 1: well and sign a will, which might make you think
10:05
Speaker 1: he was thinking of his death, it's still overall, it's
10:09
Speaker 1: still just hard to believe that the official story is
10:13
Speaker 1: what actually happened. So the lawyer saw him around six
10:16
Speaker 1: pm that evening. At what time was his death? We
10:20
Speaker 1: think it was in the early early morning hours. Take
10:25
Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at sixty minutes. Guards found Deps.
10:28
Speaker 1: Dean had approximately six thirty three am, and sources say
10:32
Speaker 1: one of them could be overheard saying bread Depstein breath.
10:51
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guards found Deps. Dean in
10:56
Speaker 1: approximately six thirty three am, and sources say one of
11:00
Speaker 1: them could be overheard saying, breathe Epstein, breathe. I thought
11:04
Speaker 1: at the time. Doctor Bond believes, based on the autopsy,
11:07
Speaker 1: that Epstein died around four thirty that morning, two hours earlier.
11:11
Speaker 1: The guards say they came in at six thirty, They
11:14
Speaker 1: found him, They call emergency services. They tried to do
11:18
Speaker 1: CPR with him, but he's dead. But rather than leave
11:21
Speaker 1: the body there, they take the body to an emergency room. Yeah,
11:26
Speaker 1: is that normal protocol? No, that's not normal protocol. The
11:30
Speaker 1: EMS people normally and especially in jail, should not move
11:35
Speaker 1: a dead body. He's right. Bureau of Prison protocol mandates
11:39
Speaker 1: a suicide scene should be treated with the same level
11:42
Speaker 1: of protection as any crime scene in which a death
11:45
Speaker 1: has occurred. A daughter, Bethany Marshall, he was upbeat, last
11:48
Speaker 1: words to his lawyers, see a Sunday, and then in
11:52
Speaker 1: about eight hours he kills himself. What do you make
11:55
Speaker 1: of that, Bethany? You know, Nancy? An argument could be
11:58
Speaker 1: made either way and turn of suicide. Often people are
12:02
Speaker 1: upbeat before they prematurely terminate their life, and he had
12:06
Speaker 1: a lot of the psychological characteristics that lead to suicide
12:10
Speaker 1: amongst the elderly. A change in life circumstances would be
12:14
Speaker 1: one impulsivity like the type of obsessive compulsive disorder or
12:19
Speaker 1: decision making asset dysregulation, which is a fancy term for
12:24
Speaker 1: not being able to control your impulses. So one could
12:28
Speaker 1: make an argument that in the matrix of his mind,
12:32
Speaker 1: he was happy because he was going to kill himself.
12:35
Speaker 1: On the other hand, in terms of a group psychology perspective,
12:39
Speaker 1: one could make the argument for a homicide. Sex offenders
12:43
Speaker 1: are hated in prison, and on the other hand, he
12:47
Speaker 1: was a huge public figure. This is a huge case.
12:50
Speaker 1: Everybody knew about it. If some harm befelt him behind bars,
12:55
Speaker 1: there could be some kind of prison cover up because
12:58
Speaker 1: the prison doesn't want any more attention called to a
13:01
Speaker 1: deplorable system, because this has been in the news every day,
13:05
Speaker 1: how horrible our prison system is, and this would be
13:08
Speaker 1: just one more example of squalid conditions, and there could
13:11
Speaker 1: be a cover up because of that. One young woman
13:14
Speaker 1: claiming she was Epstein's sex victim, says she was sex
13:18
Speaker 1: assaulted by the pedophile who called himself her quote godfather,
13:24
Speaker 1: full on raping her when she was thirteen years old.
13:28
Speaker 1: This girl, puts in sworn affidavits, says she meets Epstein
13:33
Speaker 1: and his pimp jell and Maxwell, at Michigan's Interlocent Arts
13:39
Speaker 1: camp where she was invoice training. This according to court
13:44
Speaker 1: documents now filed, the two quickly take her under their wing,
13:50
Speaker 1: taking her on shopping sprees in her home state of Florida,
13:54
Speaker 1: taking her out on the town, taking her to movies.
13:58
Speaker 1: But according to her and these court documents, Epstein slowly
14:02
Speaker 1: begins pedophilia when shopping with her and Maxwell instead of
14:08
Speaker 1: letting her pick out close she wanted, he Epstein says,
14:12
Speaker 1: she pick out and where little girls cotton underwear? Bethany,
14:19
Speaker 1: help me, Well, let's think of pedophilia and pedophilia, there
14:22
Speaker 1: are more than five years age difference between the victim
14:25
Speaker 1: and the perpetrator. The victim is usually either prepubescent or
14:31
Speaker 1: is around the area of pubescence, So the fact that
14:35
Speaker 1: she was thirteen years old means that she meets that criteria.
14:39
Speaker 1: He's obviously not able to procure children little girls, so
14:44
Speaker 1: he ages up just a little bit into an adolescent
14:48
Speaker 1: and then tries to dress her like she's a smaller child.
14:52
Speaker 1: These shopping sprees are a very elaborate, expensive way to
14:57
Speaker 1: groom the victim. And I think that what he is doing,
15:03
Speaker 1: it's a little like across between sex trafficking and a
15:06
Speaker 1: sex cult. Often with a sex cult, you have a
15:09
Speaker 1: sex obsessed, very powerful, sociopathic leader who recruits other women
15:16
Speaker 1: and other people to procure women to come into the cult.
15:20
Speaker 1: And he can't quite do it that way, you know,
15:23
Speaker 1: it's not like these women are these girls are willingly
15:27
Speaker 1: a part of a cult. But he tries to seduce
15:30
Speaker 1: them as if to have a fantasy that they're going
15:32
Speaker 1: to join the family. And I think one final piece
15:35
Speaker 1: is with this type of pedophilia, often there's like a mommy, daddy,
15:39
Speaker 1: little girl fantasy, so that he and Jolaine may have
15:42
Speaker 1: had this fantasy of like this is their little girl
15:45
Speaker 1: as well as their sex slave, and they were carrying
15:48
Speaker 1: out this sort of frenzied sexual fantasy together. You're talking
15:52
Speaker 1: about the death of billionaire pedophile Jeffrey Evstain, who has
15:57
Speaker 1: found dead in a correctional facility in New York. This
16:00
Speaker 1: is who Epstein is. This little girl whose lawyers have
16:04
Speaker 1: now filed claims against Epstein and his female pimp, aristocrat
16:10
Speaker 1: Gillen Maxwell. She says in sworn statements that she was
16:15
Speaker 1: approached by these two at age thirteen and that they
16:20
Speaker 1: get to one of his apartments in New York City
16:24
Speaker 1: and he would allegedly rape her there over the next year,
16:30
Speaker 1: even though she resisted. Doe says she was forced on
16:35
Speaker 1: her stomach and rape that Epstein stated. Epstein stated when
16:41
Speaker 1: she ever did was old enough for a boyfriend, she
16:45
Speaker 1: would quote want the sex to be good and that
16:48
Speaker 1: she should quote get it over with already, meaning losing
16:52
Speaker 1: her virginity. Okay, that's who we're talking about. Those are
16:58
Speaker 1: claims made in her civil lawsuit. This guy escaped justice
17:03
Speaker 1: for years in the state of Florida. Even though he
17:07
Speaker 1: got a swat on the wrist for child sex. He
17:11
Speaker 1: was allowed in and out in Delhi from his jail
17:14
Speaker 1: sale into his chauffeurd car to his office where there
17:18
Speaker 1: would be a parade of young girls in and out.
17:21
Speaker 1: Then in the evening, his chauffeur was just driving back
17:24
Speaker 1: to the jail. I mean to Melissa Crona, an investigative
17:28
Speaker 1: journalist co author Epstein Dead Men Tell Hotels, So al
17:31
Speaker 1: was too much to believe that that happened under the
17:34
Speaker 1: watch of the Florida law enforcement. It is, and you know,
17:38
Speaker 1: even some members of law enforcements themselves have come out
17:42
Speaker 1: and said how outrageous it was. There's a man named
17:45
Speaker 1: John Mark Dugan who was the Deputy sheriff of Palm
17:48
Speaker 1: Beach County at the time that Epstein was in prison there,
17:52
Speaker 1: and he was in charge of overseeing Epstein's work release.
17:56
Speaker 1: We spoke to him and he said that the officer
18:00
Speaker 1: who worked with Epstein actually called him the client instead
18:04
Speaker 1: of something like the Inmate, which shows just how far
18:07
Speaker 1: they were willing to bend the rules for this man. Now,
18:11
Speaker 1: Dugan was so disgusted that he eventually quit the force
18:15
Speaker 1: and he even left the state of Florida because he
18:18
Speaker 1: was so concerned that that they would come after him
18:21
Speaker 1: for retribution, because he was talking about how ridiculous it
18:26
Speaker 1: was and how out of order it was that they
18:28
Speaker 1: let a man who was a known predator back out
18:32
Speaker 1: into the community when he was supposed to be serving
18:35
Speaker 1: time for those crimes. And now, coincidentally, all of those
18:38
Speaker 1: logs stating visitors in and out of the building where
18:43
Speaker 1: STA's office was have been lost to doctor Bethany Marshall,
18:47
Speaker 1: psychoanalyst joining us out of Beverly Hills. You can find
18:49
Speaker 1: her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. What is a
18:52
Speaker 1: mentality of someone that stands by and let something horrible happen,
18:58
Speaker 1: something horribly unjust and wrong. How you're talking about Maxwell,
19:02
Speaker 1: Jelene or all these stuff? Well, well, first of all,
19:06
Speaker 1: I don't think. I don't think Gil and Maxwell stood
19:10
Speaker 1: by and watched anything. Gil and Maxwell, according to many
19:15
Speaker 1: of these little girls, not just one of them, but
19:17
Speaker 1: many of them, would actually recruit them from public places
19:21
Speaker 1: like a park, like a mall to meet Epstein and
19:25
Speaker 1: then get raped by him and tell them what to
19:28
Speaker 1: do to quote please him. She wasn't on the sideline,
19:30
Speaker 1: she was part of it. I'm talking about law enforcement,
19:34
Speaker 1: and you know I usually side with them. But to
19:37
Speaker 1: stand by and watch a predator, a pedophile go in
19:42
Speaker 1: and out of jail every day in a chauffeured car,
19:44
Speaker 1: that is wrong, Bethany How could they stand by and
19:48
Speaker 1: watch and do not? Only Nancy? It is wrong? And
19:51
Speaker 1: I think it's the same mentality as women who fall
19:54
Speaker 1: in love with men behind bars. They pretend not to
19:58
Speaker 1: put their thoughts together about what's really happening. They see
20:02
Speaker 1: the perpetrator as having some kind of a powerful position
20:06
Speaker 1: in society. I think the law enforcement who stood by
20:10
Speaker 1: may have had secret sexual fantasies themselves, believing that having
20:16
Speaker 1: sex with underaged girls is somehow okay. Perhaps they were
20:21
Speaker 1: deprived in terms of excitement in their own lives and
20:24
Speaker 1: they had this pathological need for stimulation, so inserting themselves
20:30
Speaker 1: fantasy wise, into Jeffrey Epstein's life was very exciting for them.
20:35
Speaker 1: It's like, Ooh, where is he going? What's happening. And
20:38
Speaker 1: then there's the idea of Jeffrey Epstein's celebrity. You know,
20:41
Speaker 1: people who are celebrities often are immune from consequences, and
20:47
Speaker 1: they saw him as powerful and rich, and how could
20:51
Speaker 1: anything bad happen to such a rich, powerful man. We
20:55
Speaker 1: better call him the client, and we'd better let him
20:57
Speaker 1: come and go at will. But I think, deep down,
21:02
Speaker 1: the darkest, most horrible part of this is I think
21:07
Speaker 1: law enforcement knew that little girls were being raped, and
21:11
Speaker 1: they took some secret satisfaction. They minimized it, and they
21:14
Speaker 1: thought it was no big deal. Nancy to Bobby J. Come,
21:17
Speaker 1: former FBI current star on Facebook watch series Curse of Acacres,
21:22
Speaker 1: how do you think this happened was allowed to happen?
21:26
Speaker 1: It wasn't an accident that Epstein got in and out
21:30
Speaker 1: of his jail in Florida every day to clearly go
21:35
Speaker 1: rape other children in his law office was chauffeured to it.
21:39
Speaker 1: How did law enforcements stand by and not only let
21:43
Speaker 1: happen but facilitated Why? I really I take exception to
21:46
Speaker 1: those characterizations. Clearly it wasn't facilitated by anyone law enforcement
21:51
Speaker 1: the troops. Oh oh wait, wait, wait, wait, well, hold on,
21:55
Speaker 1: wait a minute, Bobby, that's not correct. It correct, Melissa Cronin.
21:58
Speaker 1: Isn't it true that they jail in Florida let him
22:03
Speaker 1: a log, and I know them, and I let him
22:06
Speaker 1: in and out of the jail. I'm telling you that
22:09
Speaker 1: there were so called sheriff's guards at the door of
22:13
Speaker 1: his law office in Florida. I mean of his office
22:15
Speaker 1: in Florida. The US attorney at the time, the top
22:18
Speaker 1: federal prosecutor who then later became a member of Trump's cabinet,
22:22
Speaker 1: was the one responsible for the sweetheart deal that he
22:25
Speaker 1: was given, and that sent the message down the pipe.
22:28
Speaker 1: There's very little a rank and file law enforcement officer
22:31
Speaker 1: who can do other than throw your hands up or,
22:33
Speaker 1: like the under sheriff did, walk away and quit. That's
22:36
Speaker 1: what you can do. You can't. You know, we aren't
22:39
Speaker 1: free to go and arrest people without the prosecutor's office.
22:42
Speaker 1: You know that, Nancy, You were a prosecutor, so they
22:44
Speaker 1: were Hey, right there, cut his mic. Don't tell me
22:48
Speaker 1: what I know and what I don't know. You can
22:52
Speaker 1: spout out anything you want, but don't put your thoughts
22:55
Speaker 1: on me. Because these sheriffs knew that he was a pedophile,
23:03
Speaker 1: Melissa Cronin, isn't it true that every day he had
23:07
Speaker 1: to sign in and out of the jail and he
23:10
Speaker 1: was chauffeured to his office and there would be deputies
23:15
Speaker 1: guarding that office. There were people there to make sure
23:18
Speaker 1: he got back in the car, and those people, those
23:21
Speaker 1: so called guards, saw young girls going in and out
23:26
Speaker 1: of his office all day. Nancy. Is that it is
23:29
Speaker 1: one hundred percent true. And although we don't have the
23:32
Speaker 1: logs from those visits, we do have the logs from
23:36
Speaker 1: his commissary purchases when he was in prison, and those
23:40
Speaker 1: logs show that Jeffrey Epstein, a middle aged man, was
23:44
Speaker 1: purchasing women's size fives underwear which were described as quote
23:51
Speaker 1: so small they wouldn't sit an average sized adult woman.
23:56
Speaker 1: How could somebody see him making that purchase a pedophi
24:00
Speaker 1: file and think that he was reformed or think that
24:03
Speaker 1: he wasn't up to no good. Who can tell me
24:06
Speaker 1: a reason that somebody would buy not? Yeah, tell me that, Bobby,
24:12
Speaker 1: he telled me. Answer that. And you're saying they didn't facilitate, Oh,
24:16
Speaker 1: yes they did. He was protected by the highest levels
24:19
Speaker 1: of the Prosecutor's office in that district and the word
24:24
Speaker 1: came down and there was I don't know what you
24:26
Speaker 1: expect these people to do, other than walk away and
24:30
Speaker 1: quit their jobs, which some of them clearly did. Yeah,
24:33
Speaker 1: you're right, You're exactly right, James shell Nut, twenty seven
24:38
Speaker 1: years Metro major case now lawyer, You darn right. I
24:43
Speaker 1: expect a complaint when I see a crime happening. Yes,
24:50
Speaker 1: that is what I expect from law enforcement, shell Nut.
24:54
Speaker 1: And it's a heavy burden. But when you put one
24:57
Speaker 1: hand on the Bible and you raise your hands and
25:00
Speaker 1: you take the oath, the oath to seek justice, that
25:05
Speaker 1: supersedes everything else shall not. I have never, ever, ever
25:10
Speaker 1: seen this level of treatment given to a sex pedophile,
25:15
Speaker 1: a person who is victimized children. I've never seen a
25:18
Speaker 1: person like that escorted around, chauffeured around, given the royal treatment.
25:23
Speaker 1: They're lucky to be alivee at the time of their
25:25
Speaker 1: in jail. The inmates don't like them, the law enforcement
25:28
Speaker 1: officers don't like them, and I'm just apalled by this.
25:31
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you something, just because somebody up above
25:34
Speaker 1: you tells you to do something doesn't mean that you
25:37
Speaker 1: lose your individual discretion as a law enforcement officer. You
25:40
Speaker 1: do put your hand out there, and you do raise
25:42
Speaker 1: your hand, and you do say that you're gonna follow
25:44
Speaker 1: the laws, all lawful orders, all lawful directives that are
25:48
Speaker 1: given to you. I believe that many of these directives
25:51
Speaker 1: have given them were unlawful, were unethical. It should have
25:54
Speaker 1: been reported. There's no indication that anybody tried to go
25:57
Speaker 1: above and beyond the Shares Department to some outside agency,
26:01
Speaker 1: to anywhere else to try to get some help. It's
26:04
Speaker 1: just simply unacceptable. I don't buy it for two seconds.
26:07
Speaker 1: It's not right, and it's disgusting, you know. Melissa Crone,
26:10
Speaker 1: investigative journalist, co author Epstein dead mentel motels on Amazon.
26:16
Speaker 1: There's always writing to the paper, making anonymous calls. There's
26:22
Speaker 1: a million ways to seek justice. If you don't want
26:27
Speaker 1: to lose your job and you want to do something,
26:30
Speaker 1: send that letter, send an email from internet cafe, anything
26:34
Speaker 1: to let it be known that young girls are being raped.
26:40
Speaker 1: And they would walk right by the so called guards
26:44
Speaker 1: into Epstein's office and back out a couple hours later,
26:50
Speaker 1: day in, day out, and nobody did a thing. Melissa, No,
26:54
Speaker 1: and Nancy, it just it really does disgust me, because
27:00
Speaker 1: we have these people grown adults, you can say, you know, oh,
27:03
Speaker 1: it was so hard for them to put themselves in
27:06
Speaker 1: the position of telling the truth. They put so much
27:08
Speaker 1: at risk. But you know what, thirty four young girls
27:13
Speaker 1: under the age of eighteen came forward and spoke to
27:17
Speaker 1: the police about what they had experienced. And these are
27:19
Speaker 1: the women that actually were a rape. They actually did
27:23
Speaker 1: have their lives ruined, but actually were in danger from
27:26
Speaker 1: a predator and his powerful friends. They had enough balls
27:30
Speaker 1: to come forward and talk to the police. So why
27:33
Speaker 1: can't we expect that the people who are paid to
27:36
Speaker 1: uphold the law, who are grown men most cases whose arms,
27:41
Speaker 1: who are part of the law enforcement, why don't we
27:44
Speaker 1: expect them to do their duty and actually say what's
27:48
Speaker 1: going on and protect the people that they're supposed to protect.
27:52
Speaker 1: It really just turns my Stuffach Time Stories with Nancy
28:08
Speaker 1: Grace and here we are Epstein dead behind bars to
28:16
Speaker 1: Bobby Chico and former FBI star Facebook watch series Curse
28:20
Speaker 1: of Akacorps. It's my understanding that you actually know a
28:26
Speaker 1: young man that committed suicide in the very same institution,
28:31
Speaker 1: Correctional Institution MCC. What happened, Yeah, Nancy. I've been in
28:36
Speaker 1: that facility many times in my career, and my office
28:38
Speaker 1: and the FBI office was literally located across the street
28:41
Speaker 1: from the MCC, and I had a young man cooperating
28:44
Speaker 1: with me in a major drug investigation in nineteen nineteen
28:47
Speaker 1: ninety one. We had just finished interviewing him at the
28:50
Speaker 1: US Attorney's office. He was sent back to the MCC,
28:53
Speaker 1: by the way, because he was cooperating. He was in
28:55
Speaker 1: nine South, which is the Shoe, which is the special
28:57
Speaker 1: housing unit. He was not on the sidewatch, but he
29:00
Speaker 1: was in the special housing unit to keep him safe
29:03
Speaker 1: from other inmates, because you know, it gets very around,
29:06
Speaker 1: very quickly that someone's cooperating. I got the call around
29:09
Speaker 1: ten PM. I was still at my office because we
29:11
Speaker 1: were in trial prep, and I literally walked across the
29:14
Speaker 1: street and got there around the same time that EMS
29:17
Speaker 1: the Emergency Medical Service New York City was arriving and
29:19
Speaker 1: he was still hanging. The protocol was followed. They left
29:22
Speaker 1: him in place until we got into the cell, and
29:25
Speaker 1: we did a proper crime scene, because a suicide has
29:29
Speaker 1: to be at first treated as a homicide, because if
29:32
Speaker 1: you don't and you treat it as a suicide and
29:35
Speaker 1: you cut people down or you move evidence, you can
29:37
Speaker 1: never reclaim that evidence. You've lost it forever. And so
29:41
Speaker 1: we treated as as as a crime scene. We did
29:43
Speaker 1: all the photographs and the measurements and things, and you know,
29:46
Speaker 1: he was obviously already dead when the guards found him.
29:48
Speaker 1: There was no chance of reviving him. But protocol was followed.
29:52
Speaker 1: And I have no idea why in this case, with
29:54
Speaker 1: such a high profile prisoner, those same protocols weren't followed,
29:58
Speaker 1: because if they had been, as doctor Joseph Morgan said earlier,
30:02
Speaker 1: we would have that valuable information about how Epstein actually died. Okay,
30:08
Speaker 1: so what about that? What do you make of that,
30:11
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan. It's like so many other times, Nancy,
30:15
Speaker 1: anytime that someone of high profile dies, everybody absolutely loses
30:22
Speaker 1: their mind and they ignore protocol. We've seen this over
30:26
Speaker 1: and over and over again, going all the way back
30:30
Speaker 1: to Kennedy, even talking about Justice Scalia when he died.
30:36
Speaker 1: It's somehow these people are transported into another level and
30:40
Speaker 1: you ignore what should be done, whereas if it's just
30:44
Speaker 1: common every day Joe Blow, they're going to follow procedure,
30:48
Speaker 1: and just like Bobby said in his particular case, they
30:51
Speaker 1: were able to appreciate the scene in what's referred to
30:55
Speaker 1: as a pristine condition. You know, once you walk across
30:58
Speaker 1: that threshold, you can never walk across it again for
31:01
Speaker 1: the first time. And so you treat everything like a homicide.
31:04
Speaker 1: And now now we're left with this guy that's dead.
31:09
Speaker 1: We have so many unanswered questions simply because people didn't
31:13
Speaker 1: pay attention to what was there in front of them.
31:16
Speaker 1: You treat every death as if it is a homicide.
31:19
Speaker 1: Now these questions will be asked forever and ever and ever.
31:23
Speaker 1: To Melissa crona investigative journalist co author Epstein Dead Men
31:26
Speaker 1: Tell No Tells, and to doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst Beverly Hills,
31:32
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany, the two guards aren't talking. They have yet
31:38
Speaker 1: to be investigated, and this is why federal prosecutors say.
31:44
Speaker 1: Surveillance video makes clear the guards search the internet and
31:48
Speaker 1: appeared to have been asleep. Both guards were working over time.
31:52
Speaker 1: When you're being forced to stay over shifts, not go
31:56
Speaker 1: home and see a family, you start to see people
31:59
Speaker 1: tall shall cuts. Tyrone Covington is the president of the
32:03
Speaker 1: union that represents the guards who both now faced criminal
32:07
Speaker 1: charges and have pleaded not guilty. I absolutely believe that
32:10
Speaker 1: these staff members of being made a scapegoal because it was.
32:13
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Covington doesn't think there was any foul play, and
32:18
Speaker 1: he says there should be surveillance video to prove it.
32:22
Speaker 1: In November, Attorney General William Barr told reporters he personally
32:26
Speaker 1: reviewed surveillance video that showed nobody entered the area where
32:30
Speaker 1: Epstein was held, But sources say a second camera inside
32:34
Speaker 1: the tier, the one that could have seen Epstein's cell
32:37
Speaker 1: door and the doors of other inmates, was not working
32:40
Speaker 1: that night. That's CBS sixty minutes spaking. So doctor Bethany Marshall,
32:44
Speaker 1: these two guards have a lot to say, but they
32:47
Speaker 1: have yet to be interviewed, and their lawyers sided an
32:50
Speaker 1: ongoing criminal investigation, so they basically have not even been
32:55
Speaker 1: spoken to. We know, Nancy. Doctor Joe Scott Morgan took
32:59
Speaker 1: the word right out of my mouth. When somebody is
33:02
Speaker 1: high profile, people do lose their minds. Look at all
33:07
Speaker 1: the law enforcements that stood by. They glamorized Epstein. They
33:11
Speaker 1: didn't see that he was raping little girls in his office.
33:14
Speaker 1: They saw a high profile sexy guy. And look at
33:18
Speaker 1: the guards. They slacked while they were on the job.
33:21
Speaker 1: Obviously they're tired, they may be overworked. They didn't take
33:24
Speaker 1: their job seriously. But they broke protocol in many ways.
33:29
Speaker 1: He was allowed to have all those medications on his
33:32
Speaker 1: top bunk. There was all kinds of cloth and material
33:35
Speaker 1: in his prison cell where he could what he could
33:40
Speaker 1: use to hang himself. And then once he did suicide
33:44
Speaker 1: or was the victim of homicide, they scrambled to cover up.
33:48
Speaker 1: They broke protocol. They were afraid of getting into trouble,
33:52
Speaker 1: so they did not do what they were supposed to do.
33:55
Speaker 1: And I think the prison, the prison guards, the prison
33:58
Speaker 1: system is trying to cover up for a squalid, poor
34:03
Speaker 1: environment that did not safeguard their prisoner. I think it
34:08
Speaker 1: may be much much more motivation than squalid conditions. Listen
34:14
Speaker 1: to our friends at sixty minutes. This was a monumental
34:16
Speaker 1: failure on all levels, and that's why it is fueled
34:19
Speaker 1: to conspiracies. And I understand that Cameron Lindsay is a
34:23
Speaker 1: former federal prison warden who should have made sure that
34:26
Speaker 1: he wasn't taken off suicide watch. In your opinion, the
34:30
Speaker 1: leadership of the facility should have stepped in and said,
34:33
Speaker 1: while I appreciate the perspective of you, chief psychologist, I'm
34:37
Speaker 1: going to override that decision and we're going to leave
34:40
Speaker 1: Epstein on suicide watch. Especially subsequent to the suicide attempt
34:46
Speaker 1: that he had. Epstein was moved back to the shoe
34:49
Speaker 1: and assigned a new cell mate. Each tier of the
34:52
Speaker 1: shoe has eight cells, usually with two in meats per cell.
34:56
Speaker 1: Epstein Cell two twenty was about fifteen feet an up
35:00
Speaker 1: a set of stairs from the guard station, with a
35:03
Speaker 1: single locked gate between them. The gate is the only
35:06
Speaker 1: way in or out of the tiers. They were fifteen
35:09
Speaker 1: feet away and let him die. Melissa Cronan Bethany Marshall's
35:15
Speaker 1: suggesting that they cover up is because they don't want
35:19
Speaker 1: the squalid conditions at MC's safe come out. I think
35:22
Speaker 1: it may be much more than that. The reason that
35:25
Speaker 1: Epstein ends up dead. It absolutely is. I mean, it's
35:30
Speaker 1: not just about rats or mice or bugs that Epstein
35:33
Speaker 1: wrote about in a note that was found in his cell.
35:37
Speaker 1: This shows just the highest level of corruption that's happening
35:42
Speaker 1: inside law enforcement. The night that he died, there were
35:46
Speaker 1: only eighteen workers guarding seven hundred and fifty people. So
35:52
Speaker 1: if even that is the one thing that we know
35:54
Speaker 1: to be true about that night, that's outrageous. That's point
35:58
Speaker 1: zero two people guarding one prisoner in the cell, and
36:03
Speaker 1: there should have been at least one, if not two,
36:06
Speaker 1: people guarding someone like Eppstein, someone who has information and
36:11
Speaker 1: secrets about one of the biggest criminal enterprises that we've
36:14
Speaker 1: seen in our lifetime. There's something much more nefarious and bigger,
36:21
Speaker 1: darker questions that we have to ask about our wider
36:24
Speaker 1: criminal justice system and why something like this would be
36:28
Speaker 1: able to happen right underneath their noses. If we know
36:32
Speaker 1: about this case and how horrible all the lapses were
36:35
Speaker 1: with him, how many other people that are horrible criminals
36:39
Speaker 1: are also at risk of further harming our society Fun
36:56
Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. In Hours, we learned that a
37:02
Speaker 1: billionaire businessman, Leslie Wexner, refuses to reveal the full scope
37:08
Speaker 1: of pedophile Jeffrey Epstein's alleged multi million dollar theft. Okay now,
37:17
Speaker 1: who is Wexner? He is the founder of el Brands
37:20
Speaker 1: and just one of the things l Brands owns is
37:25
Speaker 1: Victoria's secrets. Okay now, this guy. Leslie Wexner, the billionaire
37:31
Speaker 1: founder of el Brands Empire, accused Epstein of stealing vast
37:38
Speaker 1: sums millions of dollars of his personal fortune, and he
37:44
Speaker 1: is refusing to reveal how many millions. We know it's
37:48
Speaker 1: multi millions from him. So Wexer disclosed a forty six
37:56
Speaker 1: million dollar donation from Epstein to a found dation run
38:00
Speaker 1: by Wexner's wife, and that was just a portion of
38:06
Speaker 1: their funds he recovered from Epstein. So forty six million
38:11
Speaker 1: dollars is a portion of what was stolen. How much
38:17
Speaker 1: did Epstein allegedly still Melissa Cronin? This is huge. Not
38:24
Speaker 1: only is he connecting the rich and powerful to underage girls.
38:32
Speaker 1: We know Prince Andrew Welles swears he never met Virginia
38:36
Speaker 1: Guthrie's and then there's a picture of him with his
38:38
Speaker 1: arm around her like a deer in the headlights when
38:40
Speaker 1: he's photographed. So that was a lie, and that was
38:43
Speaker 1: at one of Epstein's quote parties. We know his condo,
38:51
Speaker 1: his townhouse was blanketed and surveillance cameras where he would
38:55
Speaker 1: have people over to have sex with young girls. We
38:58
Speaker 1: know there's videos where they are I don't know that.
39:02
Speaker 1: What do you think these millionaires would pay to get
39:05
Speaker 1: their hands on videos of themselves with underage girls? Now,
39:09
Speaker 1: I've got at least a forty six million dollar theft, Melissa, Now, Nancy,
39:14
Speaker 1: the question isn't even what Epstein stole. The question is
39:18
Speaker 1: what he was given. Because sure Wexner is now saying, oh,
39:24
Speaker 1: he took that money from me, But we know that
39:26
Speaker 1: Wesner also gave Epstein a multimillion dollar mansion in the
39:32
Speaker 1: heart of New York City at the time, one of
39:35
Speaker 1: the largest and most expensive residential properties in New York.
39:40
Speaker 1: People just don't give their business managers multimillion dollar mansion
39:45
Speaker 1: for no reason. And we also know that Epstein was
39:51
Speaker 1: using his connection with Wexner to actively predate on women.
39:56
Speaker 1: As you mentioned, Wexner was the head of Victoria's Secret,
39:59
Speaker 1: and Epstein actually told some women that he was a
40:03
Speaker 1: scout for Victoria's Secret. I personally spoke to a woman
40:06
Speaker 1: named Alicia Arden who was tricked into going to what
40:11
Speaker 1: she believed was a Victorious Secret casting call, and when
40:15
Speaker 1: she arrived, shocker, she was the only one there. Epstein
40:19
Speaker 1: was the only one there, and his idea of a
40:22
Speaker 1: casting call was trying to take off the clothes. She
40:25
Speaker 1: filed a police report at the time, the very first
40:28
Speaker 1: police report that was ever filed against him. And now
40:32
Speaker 1: that obviously didn't result in his arrest at the time.
40:36
Speaker 1: But that's just one example of how the connections and
40:40
Speaker 1: the association that was given to Epstein by someone like
40:44
Speaker 1: Wexner actually allowed him to continue his crimes. So now
40:50
Speaker 1: people like Wexner are trying to distance themselves. They're probably
40:54
Speaker 1: running scared because they don't know, Like you said, if
40:57
Speaker 1: Epstein had video footage of But these men are not
41:02
Speaker 1: the victims. These men are not people that were stolen
41:05
Speaker 1: from or trapped in a honeypot. They were, in a
41:08
Speaker 1: lot of cases, active participants in a worldwide conspiracy of
41:14
Speaker 1: evil and predation that ruined the lives of dozens and
41:18
Speaker 1: maybe even hundreds of young women. Those are the women
41:21
Speaker 1: that we know of here in the US, But it's
41:25
Speaker 1: so much deeper than that. And I'm talking about whoever.
41:29
Speaker 1: It was brought to Pedophile Island to James shell Nutt,
41:34
Speaker 1: a former major case detective SWAT officer now lawyer. Girls
41:38
Speaker 1: from all over and there are reports that he procured
41:41
Speaker 1: young girls from London as well, were flown to this
41:45
Speaker 1: island to be raped, not having any idea lurd like
41:49
Speaker 1: Melissa Cronin was just describing for a talent audition or
41:55
Speaker 1: as a masseuse for so many different reasons, and then
41:58
Speaker 1: they get there and they get raped. This island is
42:02
Speaker 1: beyond our jurisdiction and it's going to be very difficult
42:06
Speaker 1: to investigate what happened. There shall not yet that this
42:10
Speaker 1: is going to wind up being if it's followed through
42:13
Speaker 1: with correctly and the proper resources and time is dedicated
42:17
Speaker 1: to it, it is going to be one of the
42:19
Speaker 1: largest worldwide human trafficking cases of our time. The scary
42:25
Speaker 1: part to me is, yes, there will be more people
42:28
Speaker 1: identified as victims. Yes, there'll be from other countries, other
42:31
Speaker 1: parts of the world, But there are going to be
42:33
Speaker 1: a lot of young girls, a lot of women now
42:35
Speaker 1: who were young girls at the time, who are either
42:37
Speaker 1: not going to want to come forward, who are not
42:39
Speaker 1: going to be identified. You know, maybe if they've passed
42:41
Speaker 1: away at this point, they'll never be known. The unknown
42:45
Speaker 1: victims in this case are one of the things that
42:48
Speaker 1: also concerns well, it goes far beyond our jurisdiction. Listen,
42:51
Speaker 1: our ABC Lindsay Davis. The Jeffrey Epstein scandal is growing
42:56
Speaker 1: bombshell accusations point a Finger adds some rather notable names.
43:00
Speaker 1: Two thousand pages of documents were unsealed in Manhattan Federal
43:03
Speaker 1: Court related to a defamation case brought by Virginia Roberts
43:07
Speaker 1: Goufrey against Geelan Maxwell and Epstein associate in court Finlings.
43:12
Speaker 1: Gufrey says she became an underaged teen sex slave for Epstein,
43:16
Speaker 1: who was later directed by Maxwell and Epstein to have
43:18
Speaker 1: sex with many quote powerful men, including numerous prominent American politicians,
43:23
Speaker 1: powerful business executives, foreign presidents, and other world leaders. Among
43:28
Speaker 1: those Gufrey names in sworn depositions British Royalty Prince Andrew,
43:32
Speaker 1: former Governor and UN Ambassador Bill Richardson, and the influential
43:36
Speaker 1: former Senator from Maine, George Mitchell. All three men have
43:40
Speaker 1: strongly denied the allegations and statements. Today, both Mitchell and
43:44
Speaker 1: Richardson say they never met miss Guffray and these allegations
43:48
Speaker 1: are false. Wow, so there are implications of rich and
43:53
Speaker 1: powerful men that Epstein brokered young girls too, way way
44:00
Speaker 1: beyond us boundaries. To Melissa Cronin, author Epstein dead Men
44:06
Speaker 1: tell no tales. There are a million, maybe forty six
44:10
Speaker 1: million reasons someone would want Epstein dead. There absolutely are,
44:15
Speaker 1: and that's the story that we covered in our book,
44:19
Speaker 1: the fact that there are still so many more people
44:22
Speaker 1: to be exposed, and still so many more secrets to
44:25
Speaker 1: be revealed. There's, like you said, millions of reasons why
44:29
Speaker 1: any number of people would have wanted to have him executed.
44:33
Speaker 1: And it's not just in the US, like you were saying,
44:36
Speaker 1: like we know the leaders of American business and politics
44:40
Speaker 1: were connected to him. But what a lot of people
44:42
Speaker 1: forget is there's actually an investigation right now that's undergoing
44:47
Speaker 1: in France. The m I six in England are looking
44:50
Speaker 1: into this. I've heard from sources that there are investigations
44:55
Speaker 1: pending in Belgium. There's an investigation pending in Germany. There
45:00
Speaker 1: are so many more people than we can even imagine
45:03
Speaker 1: who are scared right now, who were scared when Epstein
45:07
Speaker 1: was arrested, and the person that could have been behind
45:12
Speaker 1: Epstein being killed, if he was killed, we might not
45:15
Speaker 1: even know of that person yet. This might still be
45:18
Speaker 1: someone whose connection to Epstein could still be revealed. Because
45:22
Speaker 1: there are hundreds and hundreds of powerful people all around
45:25
Speaker 1: the world, not just in America, that were connected to
45:29
Speaker 1: what he was doing. And the one person that would
45:31
Speaker 1: be able to reveal the answers to so many of
45:36
Speaker 1: these questions is on the run, Gail and Maxwell. How
45:40
Speaker 1: can that be? Bobbydecome a former FBI current star on
45:44
Speaker 1: Facebook watch series Curse of Acacorp. Do you really think
45:49
Speaker 1: am I six and others in France are on the
45:53
Speaker 1: case and will they bring Gail and in or do
45:55
Speaker 1: they think this is all just going to go away? Well, Nancy,
45:58
Speaker 1: that's the big question. It's going to show how far
46:02
Speaker 1: up the influence of these rich and powerful men go.
46:05
Speaker 1: We've already seen it with the mysterious death of Epstein
46:08
Speaker 1: and some other things. The FBI has raided Pedophile Island. Now,
46:12
Speaker 1: it took a while to get a search. Who aren't
46:14
Speaker 1: on a foreign island, and so whether or not evidence
46:16
Speaker 1: was removed before the FBI got there, I don't know,
46:19
Speaker 1: But certainly the FBI is working in concert with its
46:22
Speaker 1: foreign partners in tracking this down. They are already made
46:26
Speaker 1: request to possibly interview Prince Andrew there. I think there
46:30
Speaker 1: is a coordinated law enforcement effort internationally. However, we have
46:35
Speaker 1: seen in this case that rich and powerful men, that
46:38
Speaker 1: whole positions of power have been able to influence the
46:41
Speaker 1: directions of these investigations. I don't know how, and I
46:44
Speaker 1: don't certainly don't agree with it, but this is going
46:47
Speaker 1: to test how many rich and powerful people around the world,
46:51
Speaker 1: and I think there are many. Epstein was just the
46:53
Speaker 1: tip the very top of this. There are very many
46:56
Speaker 1: other people that need to face criminal charges. There are
46:58
Speaker 1: probably hundreds if not more victims internationally. And I think
47:02
Speaker 1: that you know, this is going to be the test
47:05
Speaker 1: of this case. Is there a group of powerfully politically
47:09
Speaker 1: powerful international men that are going to be able to
47:12
Speaker 1: stop this investigation? And um, and the only time will
47:15
Speaker 1: tell what about it? James shaw Nutt agree percent. This
47:19
Speaker 1: is going to be broad. Is going to test the
47:22
Speaker 1: ability of law enforcement agencies to work together. Um, you're
47:26
Speaker 1: going to see agencies from all over the places. Was
47:28
Speaker 1: stated earlier. I have to communicate, coordinate about these cases,
47:32
Speaker 1: coordinate resources. It's going to take a cooperative sharing of
47:35
Speaker 1: investigative files. And I agree one hundred percent. This is
47:39
Speaker 1: going to be a major undertaking. It's going to go
47:40
Speaker 1: in for a while, and the amount of people. The
47:43
Speaker 1: amount of people involved is going to be massive, and
47:46
Speaker 1: there are people involved whose names have not even come
47:49
Speaker 1: out yet. Jess Scott, you know what, Nancy. You know.
47:53
Speaker 1: Virginie Guthrie, in one of her statements, had actually mentioned
47:57
Speaker 1: that she was present at this isle and at a
48:01
Speaker 1: sex party. And I won't go into too much graphic detail,
48:04
Speaker 1: but what she stated was that in that period of time,
48:07
Speaker 1: at this particular party, there were many underage girls in
48:12
Speaker 1: the same room with her. They were engaged in sexual behavior,
48:16
Speaker 1: and many of these girls could not speak English, and
48:19
Speaker 1: it sounded to her as though they may have been
48:21
Speaker 1: from Eastern Europe. I think that one of the things
48:24
Speaker 1: that I'm curious about in all of this is that
48:28
Speaker 1: where did these girls go? You know, he had the
48:31
Speaker 1: ability to bring them in to this island allegedly, where
48:35
Speaker 1: did they fly into There's gonna be flight logs, this
48:37
Speaker 1: sort of thing, and then where did they go after that?
48:40
Speaker 1: Did they Were they just cut loose in the US
48:43
Speaker 1: or were they flown back home? You know, I can't
48:46
Speaker 1: walk in an airport now, Nancy, anywhere that I go.
48:49
Speaker 1: I fly with Atlanta a lot and other locations and
48:53
Speaker 1: everywhere we go. If you see something, say something. There's
48:56
Speaker 1: signs about human trafficking everywhere. Interpol has beat the chest
49:00
Speaker 1: for years and years about this specific topic about human trafficking,
49:05
Speaker 1: sex trade, all the sort of thing. Let's see them
49:08
Speaker 1: put their money where their mouth is, move forward on
49:11
Speaker 1: this case, track these individuals down, because yeah, there's things
49:15
Speaker 1: that we can't do about it in the United States.
49:18
Speaker 1: But you've got all of these different countries involved. They
49:22
Speaker 1: can reach out and they can begin to paint a
49:24
Speaker 1: picture and tie this thing together and we'll see if
49:27
Speaker 1: this moves the ball for You have a lot of
49:31
Speaker 1: the flight logs, and you know a lot of the people, unfortunately,
49:37
Speaker 1: a lot of God all it in just like the
49:39
Speaker 1: tape from his suicide attempt, husband lost. I've seen the
49:43
Speaker 1: flight locks myself, and of course I've seen hunted pilots
49:46
Speaker 1: on his tail and Day didn't even put the names
49:50
Speaker 1: of the people that were on these flights. There were
49:52
Speaker 1: countless flights where it says young woman, one young woman,
49:57
Speaker 1: two initials. So they deliberately hit the identity of these people.
50:02
Speaker 1: They deliberately did not leave a paper trill. And I
50:06
Speaker 1: also spoke to a man that was the head of
50:09
Speaker 1: the Santa Fe airport when Epstein was flying his private
50:12
Speaker 1: jet in there to go to his Zoro ranch compounds.
50:17
Speaker 1: And this man told me that he saw dozens of
50:20
Speaker 1: young girls coming in that they actively spoke among themselves
50:23
Speaker 1: about the fact that, hey, this looks like a human
50:26
Speaker 1: trafficking operation. So this man did tell the authorities, he
50:30
Speaker 1: did escalate the issue. Nothing came of it, and to
50:34
Speaker 1: this day he still wonders what happened, wonders to shut
50:38
Speaker 1: it down. So the evidence of what happened in the
50:42
Speaker 1: past is not really there. All we can depend on
50:45
Speaker 1: is the knowledge of the people who were there. We
50:48
Speaker 1: know who Epstein's pilots were. Why aren't they in custody
50:52
Speaker 1: right now? We know who Epstein's madam was, Galen, Why
50:55
Speaker 1: isn't she in custody right now? It's really just mine
51:00
Speaker 1: willing and disgusting that we're relying on these women, these
51:04
Speaker 1: traumatized women whose systems took you the ones to come
51:08
Speaker 1: forward and bring these men to justice. There were so
51:11
Speaker 1: many other people who knew what happened, and it falls
51:15
Speaker 1: upon the authorities around the world to do their jobs
51:19
Speaker 1: and find the information and not sit back and wait
51:23
Speaker 1: for these traumatized people to continue their fight for justice
51:27
Speaker 1: for decades. To finally bring people to account, other people
51:32
Speaker 1: have to do their jobs and find the evidence and
51:34
Speaker 1: find the witnesses, make them tell what they know, and
51:37
Speaker 1: finally figure out what happened with this case and how
51:41
Speaker 1: we can prevent it from happening again. We wait as
51:45
Speaker 1: justice unfolds, and do you Giellen Maxwell. You can run,
51:49
Speaker 1: but you can't hide. Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off,
51:54
Speaker 1: good wise men,