Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to John Bensahlia about his choice of Pyramids of Mars (3/4)

Transcript

Talks to John Bensahlia about his choice of Pyramids of Mars (3/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:00
  Welcome back to Hamster with a Blump and Knife, the Doctor Who
• 0:04
  Commentary podcast. I am here with the fabulous John
• 0:09
  Bensalia. Say hello, John.
• 0:11
  Hello John. Did I get your name right?
• 0:15
  Yes, yes, you did, Bensalia. Yeah.
• 0:18
  Bensalia, yes, Hey, I'm going to keep saying Bensalia, whilst as
• 0:22
  people were checking you out now on Twitter, I think I got it
• 0:27
  wrong the first time I said it. No, I, from what I remember, I
• 0:30
  think you actually got it right, which which I was amazed by
• 0:34
  because you've been asking questions on the question and
• 0:36
  answers things right. And my, I've been having
• 0:38
  terrible trouble with your name. When we did the 60s, he got it
• 0:42
  completely wrong and then we did the 70s.
• 0:44
  He's getting there and I'm like, well, by the time we get to the
• 0:47
  90s you'll be able to say it properly.
• 0:49
  Yeah, I mean, I went through school and nobody could ever,
• 0:53
  you know, both the kids and the teachers just could not
• 0:55
  pronounce my name right. It's better than.
• 0:59
  I've only got 7 letters in my name.
• 1:01
  Joe Ford. My mom had a very limited
• 1:05
  imagination, alas. And you have the only person
• 1:07
  that calls me Joey, you know as well, like because I know that's
• 1:10
  my name on Twitter. I don't know why I went for
• 1:13
  Joey, or maybe people were calling me that at the time, but
• 1:15
  you're the only person that calls me that.
• 1:16
  I love that. So fair enough.
• 1:21
  Do I have a question for you? Yes.
• 1:24
  Have you ever heard the Big Finish audio arrangements for
• 1:28
  War Okay, So this is a 6th Doctor and even Smive audio
• 1:35
  where Evelyn is bewitched and romanced by an elderly gentleman
• 1:42
  played by Gabriel Wolf. And if you just said to me that
• 1:48
  he could come into a talk to his story and play this charming,
• 1:53
  funny, like effervescent gentleman that knocks even and
• 1:58
  smile off her fate a lot, he's absolutely amazing in it.
• 2:02
  How have we gone this far without talking about Gabriel
• 2:04
  Ward? Talking about, well, he hasn't
• 2:06
  really been a bit, he hasn't really played much of a part in
• 2:10
  it. I mean he was in the, he was in
• 2:13
  bits of part so, but he really comes into his own in the next
• 2:15
  couple of parts and I'm assuming that you approve of the support
• 2:21
  performance. Yes, Gabriel Wolf is is just
• 2:25
  excellent excellent villain and A and a really, really good
• 2:29
  choice that he makes to actually underplay it rather than you
• 2:32
  know, I mean if if you've got Steven Thorne, you know, it's
• 2:35
  it's like you're big no beauty world against, you know, it just
• 2:41
  wouldn't have worked would it? Paddy Russell, I've got a great
• 2:45
  idea. Let's bring him Brian Blessed
• 2:46
  for Suitech, yes. The birds, fish and reptiles.
• 2:52
  Oh my God, it's my enemy. Oh, that's a Paris condominated
• 2:58
  of sodaked bullets 4 Actually, I could see that.
• 3:05
  You know, I could see that. I'm going to get a big finish to
• 3:08
  call you up to refill this. The Philipp Hinchcliffe wasn't
• 3:15
  convinced, was he? No, he wasn't.
• 3:17
  No, no. But he he actually changed his
• 3:20
  mind. And yeah, it it's it's just a
• 3:24
  great performance, absolutely brilliant.
• 3:27
  I mean, what I love about it is not only is he silky smooth,
• 3:29
  he's a little bit camp as well. There's like a slightly camp
• 3:34
  edge to his voice. He's just really scary.
• 3:38
  Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's.
• 3:40
  I mean they. I suppose, I suppose it's a
• 3:43
  little bit like Harrison Chase, isn't it?
• 3:45
  Because he's, he's got, you know, quite a sort of campy
• 3:49
  sounding voice, but he still manages to kind of maintain that
• 3:53
  menace as well. I always feel like he's so calm.
• 3:57
  He's got nothing to prove. He's a God and he's going to
• 4:00
  destroy the earth and he ain't got, he ain't got no reason to
• 4:03
  shout because he doesn't. He hasn't got to scare you, you
• 4:06
  know, like he is scared and but also the mask is really
• 4:11
  effective. Yeah, the mask is brilliant.
• 4:13
  Yeah, it's everything about Syntec is.
• 4:16
  It just works. And it could have gone really
• 4:18
  badly wrong. But you know, I mean, you know,
• 4:21
  Gabriel Wolf voice the costume. About the only thing that
• 4:26
  doesn't work is that mysterious hand that's under his thrown.
• 4:29
  And I don't know what the hell, every time I go to buy an office
• 4:33
  chair, you know, I look for one with that hand attachment.
• 4:35
  But I've failed miserably so far.
• 4:39
  But there is a reason why he's considered one of the best ever
• 4:43
  villains. I mean, this is probably as big
• 4:46
  as it gets. Like I I think in the new series
• 4:48
  they've tried to outdo this with, you know, bigger and
• 4:51
  bolder villains. But I think this is probably as
• 4:56
  sort of apocalyptic as the villain.
• 4:58
  Oh, it is, yeah. And also the fact that the
• 5:01
  Doctor is clearly terrified out of his wits, you know, that, you
• 5:05
  know, it kind of makes him seem that much more powerful.
• 5:10
  And this is Tom Baker. You know what I mean?
• 5:12
  Like, like, yeah, yeah. He's one of the most doctors of
• 5:15
  a lot. When you know if he's scared,
• 5:16
  then obviously shit is a fan. The bit where he's thrown
• 5:20
  against the wall and he's not sort of writhing in agony in
• 5:24
  episode 4. Yeah, cuz it's yeah, the
• 5:27
  cliffhanger of the next episode where we're gonna look at that's
• 5:30
  the cliffhanger and he goes at the end and he's, you know, he's
• 5:34
  king against the wall. I swear there's a Death Scream
• 5:38
  album in you somewhere, you know?
• 5:40
  Yeah, yeah, I should, yeah. I mean, cuz at the time, because
• 5:43
  it was of late 80s, there's a song called John Kelly's
• 5:46
  Weatherman. But I think I've changed it to
• 5:49
  Tom Baker was a screamer man because he just seemed to scream
• 5:53
  all the time. I mean it's in like because he
• 5:55
  does loads and terror of Zikes. He does quite a bit in this what
• 6:01
  other thing he goes. But yeah, robots are definitely
• 6:03
  like screams when the 84 taps him on the shoulder.
• 6:07
  He screams when he's pushed from a What do you call it the when
• 6:13
  he's checking out the theater room?
• 6:15
  Talents, went Cheyenne saying. What about when he goes off the
• 6:18
  plank in Pirate Planet? Yeah.
• 6:21
  It's it's not, I don't know. I mean it's not quite as you
• 6:24
  know as the only. Oh yeah.
• 6:27
  When when he gets on these foot tracks and the train tracks and
• 6:30
  Deadly, that's a hell of a yeah, that's a great scream.
• 6:33
  Yeah. I'll tell you what, though, that
• 6:35
  you doing impressions of Tom Baker's screaming would still be
• 6:37
  a more enjoyable record than Malcolm Clark's music of the Sea
• 6:40
  Devils. You know, in that world.
• 6:48
  Well, look, come on now, we've been talking for 10 minutes.
• 6:51
  We should probably talk about the episode whilst the episode's
• 6:54
  playing. Yes, I suppose.
• 6:55
  I suppose we should. Yes, right.
• 6:58
  Why don't you can't see then? OK, here we go.
• 7:01
  In 54321 and you gonna load up? Yeah.
• 7:10
  No. Yes.
• 7:13
  You know what, John? Titles All life is my enemy.
• 7:18
  All life shall perish under the reign of a hamster with a blunt
• 7:21
  pen knife, He. Said Hamsters.
• 7:26
  I've been dying to say that since we started.
• 7:31
  Who the hell is Stephen Harris? It's just a pen name, isn't it?
• 7:36
  It's the same, you know, he he went to the same school as Robin
• 7:38
  Bland. Ah yes, and live next door to
• 7:41
  David Agnew. Yes, that's the one.
• 7:44
  Yes, Robin Bland. Oh, that's fabulous.
• 7:53
  So introducing the Marconi scope is actually a bit of a Oh my
• 7:59
  God, what do they call it? A thing.
• 8:01
  In Yeah, Like a Magic Bullet is they introduced the end of the
• 8:05
  story and it had a plot point, but actually it's there so it
• 8:10
  can stop the mummy from killing Sarah.
• 8:13
  Why is that with Tom's hair? I mean, it's like grown like
• 8:16
  twice but twice its size. It's just like like that.
• 8:22
  I mean, it's. I'd rather that though, you know
• 8:25
  than in 18 when he loses the curl, it looks very odd.
• 8:30
  Yeah, I mean, well, you know this, Yes, it's more than
• 8:34
  leisure, hive and state. State decays the worst part for
• 8:37
  that, isn't it? Because it's quite long and flat
• 8:40
  in some scenes. If any others, it's very, very
• 8:43
  much shorter. That was very alien, Tom Baker
• 8:46
  then, but he was also really unkind.
• 8:48
  He said to him, what is it? Is no longer your brother.
• 8:51
  He's simply an animating human cadaver.
• 8:53
  And if so, they can see the consequences could be
• 8:57
  incalculable. Yeah, he's he's very harsh,
• 9:01
  isn't he? Oh, no, yeah.
• 9:03
  I mean, I think it's season 13. I think he is.
• 9:06
  He can be quite, quite off. I mean, he's quite off in terror
• 9:09
  of his idols with Gary, you know, he's just like staring
• 9:12
  into space and whatever, you know, he's really violent in the
• 9:16
  scenes of doom, you know, he throws punches.
• 9:19
  Leopard Setters, Waffles, Waffle.
• 9:21
  Waffle Waffle. Waffle, waffle.
• 9:23
  Yeah, you know, for. When Scorpio takes Sarah away.
• 9:29
  He's literally screaming at the top of his lungs and then that's
• 9:33
  really something you. Want to get the wrong side off?
• 9:35
  Yeah, I feel with Tom right. There are moments where he is
• 9:40
  grandstanding and he's just having a one level time.
• 9:43
  But boy, when they make him act like properly act when they give
• 9:47
  him that sort of material. When I watched Full Circle the
• 9:50
  other day. Right?
• 9:50
  And it's a sequence after the Mars child dies.
• 9:53
  Yeah, and he's roaring at the side.
• 9:55
  You just can't take your eyes. Off him, yeah.
• 9:59
  He's just, you know, I mean, he's got so much presence, I
• 10:01
  think, you know, and like, like I said before, you know that
• 10:05
  that is why he's my favorite doctor, because you instantly
• 10:08
  believe in it. And when he's given material
• 10:10
  like that, he really just is such a brilliant actor.
• 10:14
  And I think it's quite easy to, you know, sort of take him for
• 10:17
  granted. I think, you know, he's like,
• 10:19
  oh, Tom Baker, National Treasure, blah, blah, blah.
• 10:21
  But he's, you know, a damn good actor.
• 10:24
  Well, not only does he do what you said, which is accentuate
• 10:27
  the alienness, he has the ability.
• 10:31
  And I don't think every actor that played the Doctor has this
• 10:34
  to trip that techno Babble off his tongue and make it sound
• 10:39
  like it makes sense. And he really can't do that.
• 10:42
  So, like when he's in a Douglas Adams script, like Pirate
• 10:45
  Planet. Sad words real out of his mouth,
• 10:50
  as if it is, you know, Shakespeare.
• 10:52
  And he just makes it sound like he's, you know, reeling off the
• 10:54
  shopping list. A tenant had that ability as
• 10:57
  well, I think, to really say absurd things.
• 11:00
  We don't look convinced. I'm fencing some dissatisfaction
• 11:05
  with the new series from you, John, you know.
• 11:09
  I don't. I don't want to create his face.
• 11:12
  Like, I don't know, excuse me, I've read your books.
• 11:15
  I know there's episodes of the new series you really like.
• 11:19
  Yeah, but I've kind of watched a couple of those scenes and, I
• 11:23
  don't know, I just kind of cringed even Silence in the
• 11:26
  library. I watched a couple of weeks ago
• 11:29
  and I just kind of cringed a bit at that.
• 11:30
  It's a good story, don't get me wrong, but there's just certain
• 11:34
  bits like pop culture and I don't know.
• 11:38
  But anyway, you know, each to their own.
• 11:40
  Everybody likes different things.
• 11:42
  So do you understand that the notion of a classic series fan
• 11:46
  just completely rejects from the new series?
• 11:50
  Yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with that,
• 11:53
  though. I mean, I love that I'm well in
• 11:55
  there, but I don't think. It's their own.
• 11:56
  I mean, I think it's very easy to get kind of quite precious
• 12:00
  about them. And at the end of the day, it's
• 12:02
  just a it's a TV series, you know, there's no point in
• 12:06
  arguing with people and saying, oh, I'm right and you're wrong.
• 12:09
  There is no right. You know, there's just.
• 12:12
  Far more important things to get worked up about, except those
• 12:15
  people that like dogs are the widow and the wardrobe.
• 12:17
  That, I mean, they are wrong. Yeah, I mean that that's where,
• 12:19
  that's where I drew the line is there, isn't it?
• 12:22
  Yeah, there is a line that I will tolerate and that and that
• 12:25
  is it. I'd like to pass you some of
• 12:27
  this lemonade. I just got up from my tap.
• 12:29
  There you go. Thank you.
• 12:31
  Thank you. Very kind of food.
• 12:35
  Oh, this is Don't you just think this is Tom and Liz are their
• 12:38
  best? They just brilliant.
• 12:40
  And it's it's such a grown up kind of relationship.
• 12:44
  It's not you know, like you know Rose loves the Doctor or the
• 12:47
  unrequited love stuff. It's just two best friends.
• 12:50
  Sometimes best friends do argue and that, you know they they can
• 12:54
  have, you know, like quite tense moments like when he says your
• 12:57
  shoes need repairing. No.
• 12:59
  When when Sarah said yeah, when he says you're going to stand
• 13:02
  there and just in my scenery. When she says your shoes need
• 13:05
  pairing and it's just you know it's.
• 13:09
  It's it's a very mature kind of relationship, I think.
• 13:12
  And there's a line in a second that I used to quote all the
• 13:16
  time as a child. You know the one about the
• 13:18
  hammer and chisel. Hammer and chisel?
• 13:20
  Yeah, one false move and you'll never know the time again.
• 13:23
  Yeah, such a brilliant line. It's it's just a combination of
• 13:27
  really good dialogue and two equally brilliant actors really,
• 13:31
  really just reveling it. Really.
• 13:34
  But like from what is clearly it's just a very cheap
• 13:36
  situation. He's got his Sonic screwdriver
• 13:38
  and a prop and they're in a wood with a clever bit of dialogue.
• 13:43
  It really explains the danger of the situation.
• 13:45
  Yeah, yeah, I mean, it could, it could have been really kind of
• 13:48
  like, you know, cheesy or naf or whatever, but it it really
• 13:53
  works. So Tex not happy with his TV
• 13:58
  interference? Well, first you take to have the
• 14:00
  presence that he does just sitting there in a chair.
• 14:04
  It's just. The right in the chair, Yeah,
• 14:07
  the vocal performance. It's you know it relies on vocal
• 14:12
  performance alone. I think Gabriel does that.
• 14:15
  It's it's kind of ironic because he was in, I don't know if you
• 14:18
  ever saw a kids schools program called Look and Read and there's
• 14:24
  one called The Boy from Space and he actually plays one of the
• 14:27
  the aliens at that. But he he doesn't speak at all.
• 14:33
  And yeah, John, yeah, John Woodnutt plays the the Thin Man.
• 14:38
  The guy who's he? He plays the Duke Embros on the
• 14:44
  Inter of the Zigons. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 14:47
  Yeah, and he plays this really kind of scary, sort of skeletal
• 14:51
  thin man. He's like, you know, this sort
• 14:53
  of zombie. But yeah, gay, poor old Gabriel
• 14:56
  Wolf. He's just sort of relegated just
• 14:58
  being an alien and not saying anything, which is, which is a
• 15:01
  bit ironic, unthinkable. I was just, I noticed the the
• 15:08
  Egyptian influence of the whatever he took that canister
• 15:15
  out of. You know, the the cat.
• 15:17
  There's just enough, isn't there?
• 15:18
  I think like visually Egyptian things like the sarcophagus, the
• 15:23
  mummy, the pyramid, obviously Sutex mosque, like I think, I
• 15:28
  think there's enough there. So it's not, it's not, it
• 15:32
  doesn't kind of like overtake the story.
• 15:34
  It's, you know, it's kind of incidental story.
• 15:36
  I think if it was done now, they'd go to town on it,
• 15:39
  wouldn't they? And it would be it would be a
• 15:41
  lot. Yeah, they'd have, you know,
• 15:44
  sort of like called Egyptian music, sort of farting out the
• 15:48
  speakers. But I mean, yeah, that mask is
• 15:51
  wonderful. I mean it's it's just amazing,
• 15:55
  really. You know, it's a very simple
• 15:56
  design. But yeah, it's it's just so
• 15:59
  effective. Sweaty Jelly night is highly
• 16:03
  unsteady. One good sneeze could set it
• 16:06
  off. That's just so fun together.
• 16:10
  It's it's just great, isn't it? And you know, they, they got on
• 16:13
  so well, didn't they? It is.
• 16:15
  It is one of those times. It's a bit like trout and Hines,
• 16:19
  isn't it? Yeah, John Burton.
• 16:21
  Katie Manning. Yeah, where it just sings.
• 16:25
  It just it comes together, doesn't it?
• 16:28
  I know these two just click, don't they?
• 16:30
  It's the Barry let's thing, isn't it, of saying right what
• 16:33
  Barry, let's cast both of them. So bravo.
• 16:36
  Yeah, yeah. The Barry let's that I mean,
• 16:39
  yeah, he's saying like no matter what's happening on the screen,
• 16:44
  you want to be with the regulars and that.
• 16:47
  You know what I mean? If the story's running out of
• 16:48
  steam, you still your eyes are on them.
• 16:52
  Yeah, exactly. And you know, they, you know,
• 16:54
  they make it part of the experience as well.
• 16:56
  I mean, if you know for whatever reason you don't like a doctor
• 17:00
  or a companion, but it's not so much fun, she throws it at it.
• 17:09
  Oh, here we go. Yes, yeah.
• 17:18
  What do you think about Sarah with the gun, then, of being a
• 17:22
  pot shop? Yeah, well, it's dramatic
• 17:26
  license, isn't it? You know, you have to suspend
• 17:28
  your disbelief or whatever. Yeah, I don't buy it, but it's
• 17:34
  interesting listening to Elizabeth Clayton talking about
• 17:37
  that, Isn't it with her? So yeah, yeah.
• 17:39
  Where would she learn to do this?
• 17:41
  I know. Yeah, I think she makes quite a
• 17:43
  sake comment on the documentary. She goes somewhere, swings and
• 17:47
  roundabouts, whatever, you know, well, I think some fights you're
• 17:51
  going to win with directors. Yeah, but I think Louise Jameson
• 17:57
  had the same problem on the horrifying rock.
• 17:59
  She found a quite a challenge, you know, because Patty Russell
• 18:02
  was quite old school. But again, she brought out the
• 18:05
  best in Louise Jameson. She's she's brilliant in
• 18:08
  horrifying rock. Yeah, she really is.
• 18:12
  Oh boy. I think this is one of the most
• 18:14
  tragic moments in He's Run and it's because sorry, Lawrence has
• 18:20
  been sold as such a sweet man who cares about his brother.
• 18:24
  So what's the darkest fucking thing Robert Holmes could do,
• 18:28
  brother? Kill him.
• 18:30
  He's vicious. He is vicious.
• 18:32
  It's horrible and it's the way this scene toys with us because
• 18:38
  you think Lawrence is getting through to him and you're like,
• 18:41
  here's his redemptionist. He loves his brother.
• 18:44
  You know, if this was the new series, it would be Love
• 18:46
  Conquers All, wouldn't it? Would.
• 18:48
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 18:49
  Oh, yeah. Oh, I remember you.
• 18:51
  Yes. Hung your brother.
• 18:53
  Sappy music. Music swelling.
• 18:56
  Let's, let's. Bring warlock and nanny bats
• 18:58
  alive from another party and Collins as well early Clements.
• 19:02
  There happens to be this siren nano jeans that can break us
• 19:07
  back on the dead, but some ways this is slightly cynical.
• 19:16
  You know this brothers murdering each other and a bit unpleasant.
• 19:23
  But it but it it just works. I mean in the context of the
• 19:26
  story I I I don't think any other other solution would have
• 19:31
  done. I mean.
• 19:32
  I think they both acted really well.
• 19:35
  Yeah. I like to think where he goes.
• 19:37
  What do you know of Suitech? And yeah, he's just a picture of
• 19:40
  it. Yeah, because I think Bernard
• 19:45
  Archer requested the second take.
• 19:47
  From where? Oh really?
• 19:49
  Yeah, because he felt that, you know, the first one was powerful
• 19:52
  enough. So yeah, that's yeah, it's
• 19:55
  great, isn't it? Michael Sheard said that he
• 19:57
  thought it was a shame that we didn't see Lawrence's death.
• 20:02
  But that's the point here, is that we cut back to him rocking
• 20:04
  on the chair and we think he's asleep.
• 20:06
  It's, it's, Yeah. It's Sting.
• 20:09
  It's that extra sting in the tail, isn't it?
• 20:13
  And then the way he whimpers so pathetically, yeah, it's really
• 20:21
  effective. Yeah, brutal.
• 20:23
  I can't believe I was watching. This like five years old.
• 20:27
  I can't believe that the blooming.
• 20:31
  Certificate for this is a you. I mean what drugs I mean what
• 20:35
  crack were the you know the the ratings people on.
• 20:40
  I mean, you only really get a 12 if you got Tom Baker dropping an
• 20:43
  F bomb in the special features. Oh, right, yes, yeah, yeah.
• 20:46
  The invisible enemy, isn't it? No, the invisible enemies.
• 20:49
  When Louise Jameson quotes that Frederick Yeager joke, which is
• 20:55
  yeah, it's well, that's what we should say.
• 20:57
  It's 12. Anyway, there's a wonderful
• 21:00
  scene in Underworld where him and Louise Jameson are hanging
• 21:04
  from the mining equipment and they're like, we can't fucking
• 21:10
  move on. Oh, I would not want to be on
• 21:16
  the wrong side of Tom Baker, do you know?
• 21:18
  Oh, he's he's hilarious. I mean, you know, when he's
• 21:21
  going, I think, yeah, the leisure heights stuff and he's
• 21:25
  going on about the helmet of. Helmet of Theorem.
• 21:28
  So if I check this fucking injury props and let's just get
• 21:31
  on with it, he's seven years in at that point.
• 21:36
  He don't care anymore. No, no.
• 21:39
  Now, what's fabulous about this, you're right, is how understated
• 21:42
  Tom Baker is. He just goes, Well, I told him
• 21:45
  not to be. I told him there's no point.
• 21:48
  If that was Colin Baker, it would all but have been sort of
• 21:51
  lapel clutching and straight to camera and.
• 21:54
  Oh, I I could follow the one on two other doctors who just
• 21:56
  completely make a meal of it and he just would not have the same
• 22:00
  effect. I don't think like this scene
• 22:03
  would not work at all with John Perry.
• 22:06
  Yeah, that's an interesting one, I think.
• 22:09
  I think Perry's Dr. probably would be more compassionate, I
• 22:12
  think, but it's just the abruptness of Tom's doctor that
• 22:15
  just makes it makes it more interesting, I think.
• 22:19
  Yeah. The way he's looking at the
• 22:21
  bigger picture, even though he says.
• 22:23
  Four men are being murdered with five.
• 22:26
  No, no. Six men are being murdered,
• 22:28
  haven't they, Collins? Yeah.
• 22:32
  Including Marcus, Yeah. Marcus Collins, Namin, Warlock,
• 22:38
  Ernie Clements and yeah, now Lords, Yeah, So, yeah, Six.
• 22:43
  So he gets that wrong. Hell, did they move away from
• 22:49
  all of this sort of period drawing rooms and things in the
• 22:52
  80s. It just works so well.
• 22:54
  Do you know what I was thinking? That set?
• 22:56
  It reminds me a bit of some of the sets in Ghost Light, which
• 22:59
  again works brilliantly well. Yeah, I felt like in the 80s, I
• 23:03
  just sort of lost what they were good at making, You know, like
• 23:07
  they forgot or they thought that, you know what will be very
• 23:11
  ambitious and we'll give it a go.
• 23:13
  You know, prehistoric. I mean, you know, you compare
• 23:15
  this with, you know, some like twin dilemma.
• 23:17
  I mean, it's just, you know, it's chalk and cheese, isn't it?
• 23:21
  Yeah. And yet I think it could have
• 23:24
  been as good if you had a, you know, like they talk about Peter
• 23:29
  Moffett being this lovely, amiable bloke.
• 23:32
  But but I guess end result is what?
• 23:36
  It's very mixed. I mean, you know, like 2
• 23:38
  doctors, I mean so many goose at that.
• 23:42
  We just had that lie where she went.
• 23:45
  Yeah. It must have.
• 23:45
  It does promote me, yeah. And that's actually Tom in that
• 23:49
  that costume, isn't it? Oh, he didn't want to do it, did
• 23:51
  he? He didn't want to do it, no.
• 23:54
  And I mean, I can't really tell it's Tom, but I get what Paddy
• 24:00
  was saying. Like you know, they can tell
• 24:01
  from your body language. That it's, well, he's got quite
• 24:04
  a distinctive walk, so I can't, I kind of guessed it was here.
• 24:09
  And I I understand why Pat and Russell wanted to do that for
• 24:12
  that extra authenticity. He did not do anything like
• 24:15
  that. Did he remember in leisure when
• 24:16
  he had to wear that old age makeup and he was like, okay,
• 24:19
  I'm going to be normal again now, you know.
• 24:21
  Yeah, he he he just didn't, you know.
• 24:23
  I mean, it was probably the same with mega loss as well.
• 24:27
  I know people that showed this to like a university crowd and
• 24:36
  they were absolutely sold on Tom Baker's performance and really
• 24:41
  the whole thing and were, yeah, loved Tom Baker in it and it
• 24:45
  went down an absolute treat then.
• 24:48
  This is sort of in the mid 90s. So I think I.
• 24:52
  Think he was at one time low where it was repeated in 94,
• 24:56
  wasn't it? Because they it it really
• 24:59
  annoyed me actually because I just brought out the rerelease
• 25:01
  video, which was uncut. And then about a month later,
• 25:05
  they repeated it on BBC2. And I just thought, well, repeat
• 25:09
  the story. That's not out on video.
• 25:10
  That's not the same. I just think his doctor's got a
• 25:13
  sort of timeless quality. Yeah, yeah.
• 25:17
  That's sort of chaotic energy, and that's sort of bohemian air
• 25:23
  as well. It is, yeah.
• 25:25
  It's like you say. It's timeless when I walk around
• 25:27
  Brighton now because I'm not far from Brighton.
• 25:29
  You see people and they ain't Doctor Who fans, They're just
• 25:32
  dressed up a bit like Tom Baker. White brim hats, crazy scarfs.
• 25:37
  Yeah, and. Another thing is there's quite a
• 25:39
  few of these kind of reaction videos on YouTube and they're
• 25:42
  like discovering like Tom Baker is, and they seem to be enjoying
• 25:46
  it. I think, you know, they're not,
• 25:47
  they're not criticizing shorting production values or.
• 25:50
  Maybe the dodgy acts, and they seem to quite enjoy it.
• 25:55
  There's a wonderful podcast called Who Back When?
• 25:58
  Right? Where it's all sort of modern
• 26:01
  viewers watching Doctor Who right back from the start, and
• 26:04
  there's a pool of them, so there's only one guy who does
• 26:07
  all of them. But he absolutely loves the
• 26:11
  ambition of classic who celebrates even when the effects
• 26:16
  failed miserably. He said he could like man, they
• 26:19
  gave it a go. Didn't that he gets so excited,
• 26:22
  like when he watched your face for the dinosaurs, he was all
• 26:24
  over. And I love.
• 26:26
  Him. Yeah.
• 26:27
  Somebody from sort of now watching then?
• 26:30
  And he's loving it. I think that's great.
• 26:33
  Yeah. I think it's wonderful, you
• 26:35
  know, not like and what's it? Doctor Who magazine, Time Team
• 26:40
  and they watched it like twice the speed or whatever they
• 26:43
  thought it was. Yeah, I think so.
• 26:46
  Some who are a few years ago, I do remember they were all very
• 26:51
  there was a lot of comment about the problematic nature of
• 26:56
  classic Who, because they were young people watching it.
• 26:59
  You know, like, like we can kind of show you guys that's just how
• 27:02
  people are programmed now. That's just how people have been
• 27:05
  brought up. Yeah, it's it's take offense for
• 27:07
  everything. Yeah, yeah.
• 27:11
  And you know, to be fair, some things should be that there is a
• 27:16
  fence there and I think others will just enjoy it.
• 27:20
  Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I I think some, you know,
• 27:22
  one or two, not everyone, but I think they take things farting
• 27:25
  seriously. You know, obviously there are,
• 27:28
  you know, there are problematic aspects, you know in one or two
• 27:31
  quarters. But overall, you know, just, you
• 27:35
  know, accept that it was a product of its time.
• 27:40
  Not as if you can go in and Tardis and go back and change
• 27:42
  it, you know? No, I know.
• 27:44
  I know. And what's the alternative?
• 27:46
  All right, we're fine. We don't watch it.
• 27:47
  We don't celebrate it. We don't enjoy it.
• 27:50
  Okay. Well, that's nice.
• 27:51
  Now everyone's miserable. Exactly, Yeah.
• 27:54
  Yeah. MMM.
• 27:58
  Oh yeah. So you know what, though?
• 27:59
  Sarah Jane just looked very cool with that rifle and she.
• 28:02
  She's a badass. Yeah, at least she was on the
• 28:05
  Target book cover. Yeah, she was, Yeah.
• 28:08
  Oh, got it. Yeah.
• 28:08
  I remember borrowing the book from the library.
• 28:11
  When I was, yeah, 8 years old and I was going through that
• 28:15
  phase of discovering all the Doctor Who books and it was, oh,
• 28:18
  it's just, you know, I read it patient, patient, who put it
• 28:20
  down. And it was just really magical.
• 28:23
  But yeah, part of the appeal was actually those cover
• 28:25
  illustrations. That was Chris Achilleos bit.
• 28:28
  That wasn't it. You have the Doctor head on one
• 28:31
  side, you have Sarah with a rifle on the other, and you get
• 28:34
  the Mummy in the middle. Do you remember Terroristics's
• 28:38
  prologue all about the Asyrus? Yeah, the legend of the Asyrus,
• 28:42
  Yeah, is that amazing. It was like sort of Game of
• 28:45
  Thrones esque battle out in the start.
• 28:49
  Oh my God. Yeah, it's great.
• 28:50
  And he does an epilogue as well, which kind of explains the, you
• 28:56
  know, the, you know what happens in your in the aftermath.
• 28:58
  And it's got Sarah Jane going back when she's returned to work
• 29:01
  a couple of years after and she reads all about it in the New
• 29:04
  Zealand it was just passed up as a tragic accident.
• 29:09
  Well then, hearing Tom Baker read out that target novel, it's
• 29:13
  the best thing ever I've. Never heard it.
• 29:16
  Oh, it's really. I imagine you do a great job.
• 29:19
  Brilliant. The sirens fighting amongst the
• 29:23
  space, imprisoning Suitech on Mars in a pyramid.
• 29:28
  You know, it's absolutely amazing.
• 29:30
  Yeah. I can picture him doing that.
• 29:33
  I mean, you know, there is no one likes from Baker really.
• 29:37
  I wonder what Mick Jagger's mum thought was going.
• 29:39
  On Yeah, Yeah, Triangle out in the courtyard.
• 29:43
  Because they reused the image of the Fender, didn't they?
• 29:45
  Star growth, Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I believe he he
• 29:50
  wasn't even there. His mother was.
• 29:52
  His mum was yeah, so he wasn't around going.
• 29:54
  This is the gays, gays, guns. What the hell is going on
• 29:58
  outside? There's mummies like this
• 30:00
  enormous. Well.
• 30:02
  It's probably all those drugs. So he probably thinks that's
• 30:05
  true. Yeah, that is true.
• 30:07
  I mean, yeah, I mean having. Maybe they used the trick.
• 30:10
  Maybe they should have had Mick Jagger place as heck.
• 30:14
  You think you're cueing people against Mum?
• 30:20
  Excuse me? David Bowie almost played
• 30:22
  Sharon's Jack. Played Sharon's Jack?
• 30:24
  Yeah, nearly. Yeah.
• 30:28
  No, very well. Where Andrew's on the Major is
• 30:30
  Doctor. Oh, he would have been amazing.
• 30:32
  Can I thank songs like Lab? He.
• 30:34
  Would be quite good. Yeah.
• 30:37
  Dance, Perry. Dance.
• 30:40
  I can't believe we're taking a piss over this brilliant
• 30:43
  cliffhanger. Yeah, and just the the glowing
• 30:48
  eyes. The glowing eyes as well, you
• 30:50
  think. How the hell is the Doctor gonna
• 30:51
  get out of that? Yeah, it does scream an awful
• 30:56
  obviously. I mean, he screams four times in
• 30:58
  terror of zygots, which is I think it's more in the stare of
• 31:02
  Jay Scarier than the last story we did, the web of fear.
• 31:07
  Oh that's a good one. You know what I think this just
• 31:10
  nudges it out a little bit I think because you don't have
• 31:14
  Patrick Travan's Dr. In as much. It's it's kind of ironic because
• 31:20
  he's kind of he he's put through the ring of more in the
• 31:23
  aboundable snowman when he goes face off with the great
• 31:26
  intelligence. But he's not in the web of fear
• 31:29
  and and he also screams in the aboundable snowman.
• 31:32
  But yeah, I think pyramids and bars.
• 31:33
  I think he's probably just about a little bit scarier.
• 31:36
  Even though web theory's scary, so web of theory is scary, Pure
• 31:40
  is Mars is scary. That's a second doctor and a
• 31:42
  fourth Doctor. There's really out and out scary
• 31:45
  stories for John Purley. Yeah, it's more kind of
• 31:51
  conventional scares, I suppose. Spare from space, I suppose you
• 31:55
  could climb. Mind of evil is quite
• 31:57
  psychologically dark. And again, it's seen the
• 32:01
  doctoring, you know, put through the ringer.
• 32:04
  When he like sees the visions of fire or I think it's the only
• 32:07
  time he screams in that as a child I thought Inferno was
• 32:12
  terrifying. Yeah, again, yes, yeah, I can
• 32:16
  understand that. Yeah.
• 32:18
  Cuz you know the whole end of the world scenario and it's
• 32:21
  based upon real world events, you know that gives it, that
• 32:24
  gives it that extra edge, doesn't it?
• 32:26
  By the time I saw that video, just I knew the convention.
• 32:29
  So when that larva was rolling towards them at the end of
• 32:31
  episode 6, I was like okay. So some dreadful thing that's
• 32:36
  going to happen in the next episode that's going to get them
• 32:38
  out of there, they're going to popped out and then when it's.
• 32:42
  And it's him back in. I'm like I have to pause it and
• 32:46
  like what? Yeah, it's it's brutal.
• 32:51
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 32:53
  I mean, I think something you know, I suppose you know on the.
• 32:56
  Superficial. They've been terribly all
• 32:57
  thoughts, you know, with, you know, the troll doll and the
• 33:00
  chair and the policeman, you know all of that.
• 33:03
  You know because they're they're everyday things that you know
• 33:07
  that you know keys will find quite scary I suppose.
• 33:10
  I think the conclusion that we are drawing here, you know, is a
• 33:12
  Doctor Who can be a bit nasty at time.
• 33:14
  It can be, yes. Yes.
• 33:16
  Mary White House did not like it, and that's why we're all so
• 33:19
  hooked. Yeah, exactly.
• 33:21
  Yeah. It's the White House factory,
• 33:23
  isn't it? If if she doesn't like it, then
• 33:25
  you're hooked. Guaranteed.
• 33:27
  So John Nathan Turner said. Did you ever hear that?
• 33:29
  Because I I loved it when Mary White House complained because
• 33:32
  I'd automatically put 2 million viewers on my on my audience.
• 33:38
  All right, Bosh, I'll cut it right there.