Latest / Normally / Normally Podcast: Outrage Culture, War Zones & Emotional Labor

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Normally Podcast: Outrage Culture, War Zones & Emotional Labor · Normally

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hey guys, we are back on normal. Show it normally
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: she takes for when the news gets weird. Carol is
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: enjoying her trips, and Kelly Maher of Colorado joins me
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: again today. Her organization is restoring Standards dot com. She's
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: just working on being normal, basically improving the incentive structure
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: in politics so that people who enter it can be
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: more normal.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: It's a beautiful thing it is. It's standards. That's what
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: we're trying to do.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Hence the name. Thanks for being with us. Absolutely, there's
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: like important things going on in the world. But first
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: I think we need to talk about a Vibe Shift
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: ad campaign starring Sydney's Sweeney, which okay for anyone who's
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: been living under a rock and has not seen this.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Sidney Sweeney is a starlet of Buxom proportions. She's lovely.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: I like her. I first saw her in White Lotus,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: I think, and I think she's good. She's in interesting.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: One of the things I like about her actually is
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: she has an interesting face. Instead of looking exactly like
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: the carbon copy of every Instagram influencer these days, I
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: know many people would say her face is not the
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: first thing they noticed but I'm just saying for me
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: at any rate. Sidney Sweeney says this starlet. She was
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: hired by American Eagle to do a jeans commercial and
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: since that time, about a week and a half ago,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: I have never thought or talked about American Eagle so
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: much in my life. And this is the reason. So
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Sidney Sweeney is a blonde, blue eyed, beautiful woman. She's hot.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: She loves hot in jeans. She's working on an old
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: muscle car in the In the ad, by the way,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: I was wondering, like, what's Sydney fixing the car? Which
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: is she working on? In there? We just changing an
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: air filled Like what's going on anyway? Yeah, she closes
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: the hood, a nice shot of the rear, she goes
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: to the car, she zooms off and some of that
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: over the the The voiceover for these ads is her
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: saying that she has good genes, right, yeah, good genes
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: because she's hot. So it's g E N E S
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: and j E A N S.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, are you Are you scandalized yet? Kelly so scandalized
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: you should be scandalized, according to the media. The media
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: says this is and many well, it started with influencers, right,
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: So TikTok. Crazy people are like, this is Nazi eugenicism
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: because it refers to genes. It she's blue eyed and
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: blonde haired. This is a racist dog whistle, to which
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: I say, like, it's just a hot chick wearing genes.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: That's it. There's a hot chick wearing jeans. So now
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: it's become like a mainstream controversy. So let me play
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Good Morning America explaining this controversy.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: Tim to check the pulse. We begin with the backlash
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: of our new ad campaign featuring actress Sidney Sweeney.
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: The ads are for American Eagle and the tagline is
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: Sidney Sweeney has great genes Now. In one ad, the blondehair,
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: blue eyed actress talks about genes as in DNA, being
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: passed down from her parents.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: The play on words is being compared to Nazi propaganda
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: with racial undertones.
• 3:37
  Speaker 5: The pun good genes activates a troubling historical associations for
• 3:44
  Speaker 5: this country. The American eugenics movement and it's prime between
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: like nineteen hundred and nineteen forty, weaponized the idea of
• 3:52
  Speaker 5: good genes just to justify white supremacist Despite.
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: That backlash American Eagle stock has been sword.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: Despite the backlash, Someone argue because of the much it
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: is up apparently eighteen percent, there's a notable change.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Is this controversy real, Kelly? Does anybody actually object to
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: this ad? That's I think that's really the question, right.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: But my when I see stuff like this, and there's
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: always something like this, right, there's always some controversy somewhere
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: with somebody. Is the person who made the ad? Were
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: they anticipating that this was going to happen? And then
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: we're like walking up to like the controversy line or
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: the outrage line in order to just try to push
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: people to pay attention, because, as you said, you haven't
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: paid this much attention to American Eagle.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: I haven't since I was.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: A thirteen year old angsty wanted to wear good jeans,
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: you know, like, haven't I haven't thought about it that much?
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: And now it's is it two Q by half? Is
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: it nothing.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: People will like to get mad about? This is the
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: thing that I refer to as a cultural reply all.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: You know, when you're in a big group of people,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: or in an office setting or what have you, and
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: someone accidentally sends out a full company email and then
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: everyone replies all to this massive reply all, and they
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: keep replying all to say stop replying all to this,
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: thereby perpetuating the reply all. It's you. I think that's
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: what this is. There's like four people who said it
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: was a problem. Those four people got a lot of attention.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: The attention got attention. They're by creating more TikTok psychos
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: who are happily to be happy to be psycho about
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: any number of things, and they're like, this is the
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: thing to be psycho about, So I'm going to do that. Bendreyfus,
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: by the way, I wrote a piece entitled everyone upset
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: about the Sydney Sweeney ad is mentally ill and I
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: think that's my that's my take. And then, because it's
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: rating to talk about these insane people, right media continues
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: to talk about it and continue to validate it because
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: many left of center people have this leftover twenty twenty
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: twenty one act angst that makes them want to say like, yes,
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: this turned toward like, oh, I don't know a more
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: like Budweiser circa nineteen ninety one. Vibe in our advertising
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: is not what we want. We want the woke ads
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: of twenty twenty and twenty twenty one. Right, well, and
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: this goes back to that.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: And by the way, I'm replying all right now exactly,
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: we're part of the problem, acknowledging it while still talking
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: about it.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: I'm the problem, not the solution. I tweeted about it
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: like four times yesterday.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, but this goes back to this underlying question
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: of I think you know this story. One of our
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: mutual friends and I make a joke all the time
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: about your metabolism as we eat cheese and uh chocolate,
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: and we're like, maybe Catherine and her metabolism as we're
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: snacking you my brunette friend.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: Yes, I talk about your jeans all the time.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: Right, like the idea that some people are naturally pretty
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: like you.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: That's not mutual. Thanks. Yeah, No, I think that Maria
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: should say, like, the good jeans are hot jeens. That's
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: the point. M h yeah, Ben Wrights. Ben Dreyvius writes,
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: the ad is a naziad. Duh, how is it a Naziad?
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: The real question is how isn't it a naziad? Because
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: it's obviously a Nazia. Let me count the ways. Number one,
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: it's visual and the Nazis loved visuals. Number two it's
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: in English, a Germanic language. Number three, Sidney Sweeney is
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: blonde and blue eyed, and the Nazis loved those things.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Number four American eagle eagle. They loved eagles. Americans love
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: bald eagles. But this is not a bald eagle. It's
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: just an eagle. Could have hair, could not have hair.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: How am I supposed to know anyway? American schwashedika. Number five.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: The Nazis liked eugenics, I mean eugenics. And number six
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: Sidney Sweny eagles SS makes you think, yeah, I mean again,
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: and it is working for American eagle. Of course, I'm
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: not sure that they anticipated it would work this well.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: But whatever staff put this together has got to be
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: like well done.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: That is my question with some of these things, right, Like,
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: sometimes when these things blow up, it either goes very
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: poorly or it goes very well and it's just a gamble,
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: don't know.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, to me, this is so funny because the ad
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: itself is so ana dyne. It's like so much less
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: risky than so many things we've seen over the years.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: It's it's like, I think, tastefully shot. It's she's a
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: fun chick, like I just it's so not in advertising clothes. Yeah,
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: it's so not something to be mad about. And yet
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: the headlines are vanity fair Sidney Sweeney under fire after
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: controversial American Eagle ad campaign backlash against Sydney sweeney jeans
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: jeans ad gets mocked by the White House. So now
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: it's to the president as well. Does Sidney Sweeney's American
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Eagle Great Jeens campaign mark a shift for advertising? I
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: like that one because it's from NPR and notably not insane,
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: which makes makes me think they're like, please give us
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: our money back. We are not insane, but nobody's gonna
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: give you your money back because it's our money. But she's
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: also in the government, like I digress. I looked it
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: up because I remembered that she was in trouble for
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: something else before, like a couple of years ago. And
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: it's the stupidest thing. This happened in twenty twenty three.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: I knew she had been in trouble, in trouble quote
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: backlash quote under fire for something right leaning or right
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: coated in the past, and it is this that in
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty three she went to a birthday party for
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: her mother who turned sixty, and she took some pictures
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: there and she's in some pictures there, And the hats
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: made for this event were read and said make sixty
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: great again. Business insider Sweety and her family faced criticism
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: last August over what people on social media perceived to
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: be maga hats popularized by her president doct drop it
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: as supporters. Sweeney's brother Trent pointed out that they say
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: make sixty great again, but it became a whole thing
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: and she had to, Like she didn't really back down,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: which is one of the reasons I like her. She
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: did just say, like, these are my mom's friends, it's
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: my mom's birthday party. It's like, what do you do it? Crazy? Yeah,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: so people are crazy, and she did not, I think,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: sort of cave in that instance and recognized it to
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: be silly. And I hope the same is true of
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: her and American Eagle this time around. I think it
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: probably will be.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Being hot is sometimes, at least in part, a
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: genetic thing.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: It just is. It's Oh I do have I also
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: have audio of one of the insane influencers, and she's
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: a she's a surgeon, so she wants to give you
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: a scientific take on this. Do we have that one?
• 11:50
  Speaker 6: The Sydney Sweenie Arian Eagle ad is not only xenophobic
• 11:54
  Speaker 6: and racist, it's also scientifically inaccurate. She says, genes often
• 11:59
  Speaker 6: the determine hair color and eye color. I'm sorry, often
• 12:05
  Speaker 6: that's literally what they do. If they're not determining hair
• 12:10
  Speaker 6: color and eye color, what is it's giving red Pill
• 12:15
  Speaker 6: podcasts bro with no marketing experience clearly running their ad department.
• 12:20
  Speaker 6: And I just hate when companies make content trying to
• 12:23
  Speaker 6: use medical or scientific terms and then completely fuck it up, Like.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: It's not that hard to.
• 12:29
  Speaker 6: Google what genes do, how DNA works. Do genes often
• 12:35
  Speaker 6: determine our traits? Or do they always determine our traits?
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Okay? Can I say one thing, which is that if
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: I ever I met my sergeant and she talks like bus,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: I am going to ask for another sergeant.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: Also, she's never heard of colored context, nor has she
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: ever heard of hair dye before.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: But sometimes a box at the drug store does determine
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: our hair color? Yeah? True, sure, yes, yes, that's true. Anyway,
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: It's like sorry, I mean, yes, I can't.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: I can't determine what she they cannot definitively say right right, oh,
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: oh my god. Notably that surgeon pretty genetically hot. Look
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: at he's blond and blue eyed. Yeah, I want to
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: be like, Okay.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Is there a dog whistle here? Anyway? I think American
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Eagle will happily continue to make more money. I don't
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: anticipate that they'll back off of this over the seventeen
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: people who are actually mad about it, as Ben Dreyfus
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: calls them, the most insufferable people on the Internet. I
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: think we're all very familiar these types of people. I
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: did want to notice. Also Jarvis the the Great X
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: account or, he says he offers some upcoming Sweeney projects.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: One Sidney Sweeney is an elite race car driver Elizabeth
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: fast Rubber. But can she win the season title and
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: become a Master Grand Champion? Find out this fall only
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: in theaters in Mester Race. Oh no, so fun. So
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: there's a whole thread of those that he came up with,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: if you guys would like to check them out. Okay,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: I think we're done with the cultural reply all. Who
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: knows how long it will last again, when this happens
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: with the whole company, it can be days. And days
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: of back and forth, meaning stop talking about it, stop
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: talking about it.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: The question is what actual news or are we not
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: paying attention to because of this? And the answer is
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: probably a lot, right.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: Probably a lot, Probably a lot. Congress is an in
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: session at the moment. Are they so like we're clear
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: on that right or are they anyway?
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: Three percent GDP growth?
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: What perhaps if Congress had better jeanes I would pay
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: more attention. Okay, shall we move on to actual serious news?
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: We should just chat through an update on the Israel
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Gaza war and Israel fighting on many fronts, having subdued
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: many of its would be annihilators from Hesbela to the
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Hooties to Hamas. It's you know as usual. Israel's performance
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: has been improbable. They have their intelligence service has done
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: amazing things eliminating many of these forces and their leadership
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: through all sorts of crazy daring do and also the
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: on the ground war that is not intelligence based like
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: the Hesbola hits and such. Beyond the ground war in
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Gaza remains pretty brutal, with Israeli soldiers dying there, with
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: much of Gaza reduced to nothing or very little infrastructure.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: Except for the infrastructure that Hamas terrorists would like to
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: keep in place underground, even that has taken a hit,
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: and the question, the big issue, as it has been
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: throughout the war, is the care and distribution of food
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: to civilians within the Gaza strip, always very challenging, always
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: unlike any other war footing in history, it is considered
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: Israel's responsibility to fully maintain the civilian population of Gaza,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: as it's fighting a war. Hamas, which rules Gaza, which
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: is the government of Gaza on the international stage, has
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: no responsibility for feeding or housing its own civilian population
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: and in fact uses them and abuses them in awful,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: awful ways to make things worse for Israel and to
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: make it harder to fight them. But there has been
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: like a fairly large shift. A couple days ago there
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: was an attempt at yet another ceasefire, and you'll never
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: guess who didn't accept the terms, Kelly, was it Israel?
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: What is it? Was it Israel refusing to cease fire
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: or was it Hammas sang it was once again Hamas
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: saying no. And in that moment as Hamas once again
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: illustrated that it will not return hostages or accept terms
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: of a ceasefire. Suddenly it became like a real, strident,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: full media wide, international community wide outrage that even though
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: all these people have been saying that many people and
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Gaza have been starving the whole time, suddenly they were
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: really really, really really really more.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Starving, right, and a lot more pictures of like starving
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: looking children right hitting the media, which is the thing
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: that makes people get real edgy.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, and a note on that front, The Washington Post
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: posted a picture of a child. Heart like, heart wrenching
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: photo of a child held by his mother. His spine
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: is visible, his his ribs are visible. And the implication,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: in fact, I think outright claim was that Israel is
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: specifically starving this child. Yes, and in fact that child
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: had other nutrition or other medical issues, which is why
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: he looked the way he did. And in fact, his
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: brother was standing in the photo and was cropped out,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: one might imagine, because he didn't look unhealthy.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: Hmmm.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: So the New York Times, excuse me, The New York
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: Times posted this photo, I think, I said Washington Post earlier.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: So the New York Times posted this and they added
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: on their New York Times Communications pr X feed, not
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: on the main feed, not on the front page. Of
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: the paper where the photo was featured an appended editor's note.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Children in Gaza are nourished and starving, as New York
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Times reporters and others have documented. We recently ran a
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: story about Gaza's most vulnerable civilians, including Mohammed Zakaria al Motelwak,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: who is about eighteen months old and suffers from severe malnutrition.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: We have since learned new information, including from the hospital
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: that treated him in his medical records, and have updated
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: our story to add context about his pre existing health problems.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: This additional detail gives readers a greater understanding of his situation.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: Our reporters and photographers continue to report from Gaza bravely, sensitively,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: and at personal risk, so that readers can see firsthand
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: the consequences of the war. Okay, so again, that's not
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: a proper correction. It doesn't even take responsibility for having
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: not given people the real information. And this is the thing.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: I believe that people are suffering in Gaza. I for
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: sure think that's real. Stop lying about it, Stop misrepresenting things,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: because that makes everybody go But what is real? What
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: can we trust in? What can we not? And then
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: the other question is how are people still starving when
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: millions and millions and millions and millions and millions and
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: millions and millions of meals, yeah, have gone into the
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: country throughout the entire conflict.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is this is one of these like
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: larger questions about what AID looks like just in general.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: I had I had a was it a presentation by
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: a really fascinating guy from the Act and Institute a
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: couple of weeks ago and talking about like African Aid.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: We're talking about these when you are in a conflict situation.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: Oftentimes the ruling party, right Hamas for instance, plenty of
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: evidence that they take the AID in whatever form it is,
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: right and turn it into a weapon, yes, right, whether
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: you're trading it, whether you are using it as a
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: tool of oppression against your own people. And this is
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: this is, you know, on a much smaller scale.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: I was.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: I was driving with my two boys, six and eight
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: the other day and in Denver right now, there's lots
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: of you know, panhandlers, and my children were like, the
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: sign says these hungry mom right, hungry, this is a
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: hungry person. We must act, we must like And both
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: of my kids go to Catholic school, so they're like
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: Jesus says, mom, we have to give this person money,
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: and like the nature and question of aid is a
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: really hard one because we are called to help hungry
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: people and also in some cases it is possible that
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: those methods that we use are then turned on the
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: population and can be in fact more harmful for those people,
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: and we have to a six and eight year old
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: is yeah, trying to but it's essentially the same argument
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: that one would make on an international stage, because that's
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: about where our reading level is.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: Yes, and you know there is evidence despite what the
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: New York Times says, which came out with this wild
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: ass story right headlined, no proof Hamas routinely stole you
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: in aid? Is Israeli military official say that is wild,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: That is counter to everything that pretty much like even
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: people who are nominally like pro Palestinian Cause or even
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: pro Hamas are like, yeah, they mess with these supplies,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: they resell them, they take charge of them. They're the
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: ones who in the past have claimed to have been
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: distributing them. If they're not distributed, that seems like it
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: should be on them, and it never is. So because
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: this is a problem with Unruh, which is the UH,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: the Refugee Agency of UN that works hand in hand
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: with Hamas. Because Anra is so notoriously bad, Israel and
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: the US got together and formed the Gaza Humanitarian Fund
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: to feed hungry gossins. And they have a way that
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: they do that that is approved by these two organizations,
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: to keep aid workers as safe as possible, to allow
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: the food to actually get to hungry gossens. A right
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: to people. Our friend Guy Benson knows the Gaza Humanitarian
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: Fund is feeding hungry gossens, with the US footing the
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: bill and Israel blessing the efforts we've distributed. They've distributed
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: tens of millions of meals. Hamas has murdered their aid
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: workers that happened a couple weeks ago, and threatened and
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: attacked gosins who accept the aid and the UN is
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: effectively partnering with Hamas against the Gaza Humanitarian Fund with
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: the help of much of the global media. There is
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: no bottom with these people who pretend to care about
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: acute hunger in Gaza. To prove this point, and we
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: will note that it is a you know, a government entity,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: so you know, you can take it with a grain
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: of salt, but the IDF takes reporters out to this
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: field where un AID is sitting undistributed to show them
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: we are like, we're trying this AID is here rotting
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: in the sun. And Jon Favreau of the pod Save
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: America Guys was like, like, it's believable that the UN
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: would just leave food sitting around instead of feeding gusins.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: It's like, have you met the UN, Like do you remember?
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: But I'm sure they don't, even though it took place
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: during the time that all these guys have been in politics.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: The UN famously, in many places, specifically with refugee services
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: and AID, makes people have sex with them to get food. Right,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: That's like a normal thing that nobody gets fired for
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: that they covered up for a decade that finally was
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: like uncovered at some point after about ten or twelve years. So, yeah,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: it is believable that the UN would do that.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: It's such a complicated and multifaceted problem, right, because we
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: have the issue you and I talk about often, which
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: is the issue of like the reliable narrator and the
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: New York Times has done a fabulous job at undercutting
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: their own, winning itself and everyone else's credibility in the
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: long run this right, then we have like the nature
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: and struggles of aid in situations like this, and then
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: we have just like a general interest in Sydney Sweeney
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: versus this because this is depressing and it's hard to
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: talk about and it's hard to think about, and there
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: are no easy answers, right, There aren't.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Easier answers because it's war. And I do think that's
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: one of the things that is cynically used against Israel,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: which is like war is tear, and terrible things happen
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: in war, and you can do your best to ameliorate them,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: as I think that Israel does and shows itself to
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: do at nearly every turn, and it is given absolutely
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: no credit for it. But then I think that the
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: next question is like what does become of Gaza? What
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: becomes of Israeli efforts there? The problem with fighting a
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: death cult that is in a holy war with you
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: is that they don't surrender, right, You just like do
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: the best you can. And so that that's the very
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: complicated situation is.
• 26:36
  Speaker 7: Real fine, it's like the perpetual cusp of peace with
• 26:43
  Speaker 7: just this constant underlying Like we were talking about generation
• 26:50
  Speaker 7: after generation after generation of the same thing over and
• 26:55
  Speaker 7: over and over.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: And despite all its dominance over you know, in this
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: basically Seven Front war. You know, it's it's very unsatisfying
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: for the Israeli people to look around and be like, well,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: we can leave Gaza once again, which they did into
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: they did twenty years ago and handed the whole thing over,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: and this is October seventh. Was the result. It wasn't
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: a flourishing Palestinian state on the Mediterranean, which was the opportunity,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: but it was relinquished. So yeah, I don't know what
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: comes next, and it is disappointing to see many people,
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: even otherwise rational people, fall for some of the propaganda.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: Not to weigh the claims of the Gaza Health Ministry,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: which is just TAMAS and not be part of you know,
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: the Gaza humanitarian funds attempts to actually get people fed.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: That's the tell like they're there to do the thing. Yeah,
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: is there to do the thing? Yes?
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: If somebody is handing somebody else food, support them, yeah.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Right. By the way, I'm going to close this out
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: with one clip real quick that will show the shift
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: in the Democratic Party and which previews what the next
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: primary season for them is going to look. Like these
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: are the pod Save America bros. Of the Obama administration
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: talking about how nothing can ever be the same moving on,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: and that funding Israel militarily should not be basically shouldn't
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: be on the table for democratic candidates and administrations. So
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: we'll close with that little clip. The Times they are
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: a change.
• 28:38
  Speaker 8: In and I don't think democratic candidates should take money
• 28:40
  Speaker 8: from APEX or vote to fund military support for Israel anymore,
• 28:43
  Speaker 8: like I really don't in this government, absolutely not, and
• 28:46
  Speaker 8: that especially includes I think the next Democratic nominee for president.
• 28:50
  Speaker 9: Things I want to see Democrats at least calling for
• 28:51
  Speaker 9: is cutting off military systmto Israel. It's a rich country.
• 28:54
  Speaker 9: By the way, they don't need a three billion a
• 28:55
  Speaker 9: year and hands up right back. Obama signed a ten
• 28:57
  Speaker 9: year MoU for three point three billion a year. Like,
• 28:59
  Speaker 9: so we're part of the problem here, let's correct it.
• 29:01
  Speaker 9: I would like to see talk about sanctioning Israeli government
• 29:04
  Speaker 9: officials who use genocidal rhetoric or talk about ethnic cleansing openly.
• 29:08
  Speaker 9: We should support a ceasefire resolution at the UN. We
• 29:10
  Speaker 9: should demand that international press be allowed into the Gaza
• 29:13
  Speaker 9: strip to report on what's happening without an IDF minder.
• 29:15
  Speaker 9: It's insane. The press still can't go with the gaza
• 29:17
  Speaker 9: and cover what's happening. And I also think like there
• 29:19
  Speaker 9: has to be a total mindset change in the Democratic
• 29:21
  Speaker 9: Party when the war ends. We are not going back
• 29:23
  Speaker 9: to the pre October seventh status quo because it's not
• 29:26
  Speaker 9: where the party is, is not where the world is. We're
• 29:27
  Speaker 9: not going to shovel billions a year in military A,
• 29:30
  Speaker 9: We're not going to veto every effort to recognize the
• 29:32
  Speaker 9: Palestinian state at the UN. We should not take money
• 29:34
  Speaker 9: from APAC. And like I will hold out hope for
• 29:36
  Speaker 9: better political leadership in the US and in Israel, but
• 29:39
  Speaker 9: we often also recognize that the Biden era hugbybnet and
• 29:42
  Speaker 9: Yahoo's strategy has to be thrown in the trash can.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: We'll be back with another insane New York Times dating
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: themed piece to lighten the mood on normally. Oh, back
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: on normally with Kelly Maher of Restoring Standards. You can
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: find that at Restoring Standards dot com and The New
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: York Times is always supplying us good stuff on the
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: dating scene right and or on just relationships in general.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: And I think a lot of relationship writing, and I
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: understand why it happens this way, but a lot of
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: relationship writing is just taking your own relationship and then
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: projecting it onto society, and that is not always wise, right.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: And so this is the new sort of feminist gripe.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that uncharitably. That's what this article is.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: It's like, here's our new feminist gripe. Are you ready
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: for it? I'm ready. The headline is why women are
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: weary of the emotional labor of mankeeping. As male social
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: circles shrink, female partners say they have to meet more
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: social and emotional needs. Okay, so there's a little I'll
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: read you a little bit down here. This is a
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: relationship where both are busy attorneys, it says, but she
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: miss Tillie Coulson hyphenated, but she tends to take charge
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: of their social plans. Miss Tilly Coulson has hung out
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: with her boyfriend's close friends a handful of times. He
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: hangs out with hers several times a week. Her role
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: as the de facto social director of the relationship includes
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: more serious concerns too. When are we going to meet
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: each other's parents? When are we going to do our
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: first vacation together? She said, And if all of that
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: onus is on me to kind of plan, then I
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: also feel all the responsibility of something goes wrong. Mankeeping
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: put a word to her feelings of imbalance. I feel
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: responsible for bringing the light to the relationship. She said.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: Okay, uh, I'm cringing so hard that I feel it
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: in my back and I might need to go to
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: Pilate's after this just to stretch.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: It out, because it's just.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: I think being a man is just so hard in
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: this society.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: I can't imagine there are I would say, many contradictory
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: things that I feel like are asked of the men,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: because it feels like the old gripe was if I
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: may generalize that men were not sharing their feelings with
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: their remote romantic partners right and that that therefore did
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: not lead to emotional intimacy, and that they needed to
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: do more of that. Great, But now the complaint seems
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: to be that they are sharing too much and that
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: that is hard on women. I do think, honestly, I
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: think this piece would be a very helpful and good
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: piece if it were focused on the fact that men
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: oftentimes do have fewer social relationships than women do, and
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: it might be healthier for them to have more. Now,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: those relationships are going to look different than women's relationships,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: and I think too much of the New York Times
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: staff wants them to look exactly like women's relationships, and
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: they don't have to. But I think that part might
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: have been the pitch for this piece if it were me,
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: instead of the women are complaining because men don't have
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: enough friends.
• 33:09
  Speaker 9: You know you.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: I just finished a book that you recommended to me,
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: of Boys and Men. Yes, and uh it was rich
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: Is it Richard Reeves? Uh? And he's a Brooking Brookings
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: Institute guy. And you recommended it to me because I
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: am raising two young hopefully like men, if I can
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: help them transition from boyhood and demandhood, and this is
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: it's a hard thing to think about, you know, how
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: do you raise children? How do you raise young men
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: who can operate in a world where like therapy and
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: feelings is okay and we have to access what real
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: masculinity looks like. But it does just seem like it's
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: a no win situation.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: It feels pretty no when, by the way, one of
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: the lines in this this this particular it says. It
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: says that a therapist says that often with his straight
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: mail clients, they tell him that they rarely open up
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: to anyone but their girlfriends or wives. Their partners have
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: become their unofficial therapists, he said, doing all the emotional labor.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: That particular role now has a name, man keeping. The term,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: coined by Angelica Puzzio Ferrara, a post doctoral fellow at
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: Stanford University, has taken off online. It just this is
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: the sentence. It describes the work women do to meet
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: the social and emotional needs of the men in their lives,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: from supporting their partners through daily challenges and inner turmoil,
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: to encouraging them to meet up with their friends. Our
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: friend Emily's and Notty tweeted about this and said, tbh,
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure you guys understand what relationships require like this.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: That's just being in a relationship.
• 34:48
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, It is so interesting to me though. The term
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: man keeping is so reminds me so much of like
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: being a zoo keeper, as if you were as if
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: you were as if you must maintain this exotic animal
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: in your life that is completely un like, incapable of understanding, right,
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: what it's it's a it's a fascinating shift from like
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: the duality of masculine and feminine to default women and
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: then the men are kind of orbiting around the default
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: woman and the struggles of.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: That to that point. By the way, what if you
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: reversed this column and a dude wrote a column that
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: was just like, Oh, they're always talking to me about
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: their feelings. It's so hard and I have to listen
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: to it all the time, like I'm obviously canceled and sexist.
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: And the other thing I thought when I was reading this,
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: as she says that she's hung out with his friends
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: a couple of times and he's hung out with hers
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: several times a week, I think you're an extrovert who
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: is with an introvert And this might just be something
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: called a personality difference that you need to work out
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: in your personal relationship and not an issue where you're
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: doing something that is beyond the expectations of a normal relationship.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: Just girl, y'all have.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: Different trust me, Like this is it's just normal stuff
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: being pathologized. Yes, who's part of I think the downfall
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: of society?
• 36:33
  Speaker 6: Yes?
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: All right, Well, on that note, the good news is
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: that like, these are actually normal things. You just like
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: you need to discuss them with your partner. And if
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: you don't want to be hanging out three times a
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: week and he only wants to be hanging out once
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: every now and then, like that's fine, You'll figure out
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: if you can make one. Okay. Bless you all and
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: your mankeeping endeavors. Thanks for joining us on Normally Normally
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: airs Tuesdays and Thursdays, and you can subscribe anywhere you
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: get your podcast. Get in touch with us at normally
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: the pod at gmail dot com. Thanks for listening and
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: when things get weird, act normally
• 37:10
  Speaker 7: Mhm