Latest / The Touch of a Mustang / Saving Mustangs from the Hidden Slaughter Pipeline with Ashley Avis | Episode 53

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Saving Mustangs from the Hidden Slaughter Pipeline with Ashley Avis | Episode 53 · The Touch of a Mustang

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There was a horse that was extremely emaciated.
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She was in Texas. And we got a call from somebody
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that knew about our work who had driven past a property where
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this horse was just tied. And I mean, when I say
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emaciated, she was skin and bones.
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This little buckskin I got. I get this call from a stranger
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and still don't understand how they got my personal number, but
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glad they did. They described this horse and
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I'm here in Los Angeles with my husband and I get a photo and I
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just like, Oh my God, what do we do?
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And so I got in touch with local law enforcement and they ended
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up taking the horse away. And they allowed us to have the
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first right to figure out an adopter for the horse.
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So we, we took her under our care and we paired her with this
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young woman who had undergone some personal abuse and was a
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teenager. The transformation and the
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photos from day one between those two and this little girl
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like her, you know her, her physicality was just so locked
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up. I don't know if that little girl
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would be around today without the help of that horse.
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Just a story of profound healing between two people that
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underwent abuse and found healing in each other.
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And that's the power of rescuing one life.
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There are healers on this planet with the power to soften the
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suffering of mankind if they have remained in the recesses of
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the world, abused, discarded and labeled as trash.
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This is the touch of a Mustang. I am your host, Shalise Clough,
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and I'm here to tell the story of wild horses, Mustangs, and
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the humans who are discovering and sharing their gifts while
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working to protect their well-being and preserve their
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spirit so this divine power won't be lost.
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Join us on this quest with The Wild Listing.
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So I'm here today with Ashley Avis and some of you guys may
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know her from Disney's Black Beauty.
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Maybe you can give us a quick introduction and talk about
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Black Beauty. And is that kind of where your
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story starts with the work you're doing now?
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It certainly did. Thank you for having me on the
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show today. Black Beauty, like so many
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people, I grew up with that novel as a kid and it inspired
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my love of horses. Reading Black Beauty is what
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prompted me to ask my parents for riding lessons when I was 7
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years old. And it really unexpectedly
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shaped my life. And as I embarked on my journey,
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journey as a journalist and then as a screenwriter and eventually
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as a director. I had directed three films prior
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to Black Beauty, but that was really that was the the big
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entrance into a larger film, a larger budget, a much bigger
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crew shot the movie in South Africa.
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It's set in the United States, but for a number of reasons,
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mostly budget and tax credits, we we shot in South Africa,
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which doubled beautifully the Western US.
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But having grown up with horses most of my life, after I went to
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college and started my working career, horses dropped away and
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they came back full force after I was approached to to write and
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director reimagining. And so in being tasked with
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bringing the Black Beauty story into a modern world today, the
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last thing I wanted to do was change the Black Beauty story in
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a way that Anna Sewell would. It's just so easy to just RIP
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off a valuable piece of intellectual property and turn
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it into something that has nothing to do with the spirit of
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the original, to be frank. And so I went back into why Anna
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Sewell wrote Black Beauty, and few people know that she was
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crippled as a little girl and she was carried by horses.
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And that inspired her very unique love and her
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understanding of them in a time when a lot of humans looked at
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horses as tools to to carry things, to pull the car, to plow
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the field. And Anna.
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Yeah. And she revolutionized our
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understanding of horse and animal empathy, taking a great
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risk and publishing a book from the first person perspective of
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a horse. And it was in the research to
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see how we could honor Anna and why she wrote Black Beauty that
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I came across the issue wild horses were facing.
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And as a horse person in my youth, I had no idea.
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And then that spiraled into a life of its own with our doc and
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our other work today. Is that why you picked the
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Mustang? Because they are the horse who
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is, say, targeted a good bit in the world today.
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Completely, and I looked at a number of different issues and
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how we could frame the Black Beauty story, which is very
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episodic. It was a challenging film and
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that the version done in the 90s is still one of my favorite
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movies of all time and so beautifully captures the period
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piece in the original literal interpretation of of Anna
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Sewell's text. As I started researching the
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wild horse issue back in this would have been 2017, I was just
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so angry and so appalled and you know, videos of the roundups.
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I knew just as a filmmaker that's not doing what is
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happening justice. I need to go see that.
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And it was in collecting footage independently because the
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production didn't originally have the funds to send us out
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into the wild. Our film was an acquisition by
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Disney. It was not created by Disney.
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Some people don't quite understand that correlation.
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We didn't have the Disney budget on Black.
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Beauty. So what is the difference
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between that and one that Disney's fully behind, I guess?
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Yeah, So it so that it was produced by a wonderful company
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called Constantine Film and they championed it and took, you
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know, took the risk to fully finance Black Beauty.
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And then when we were when I was editing the film, Disney called
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and they said we'd like to see this.
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And I'll never forget because I edit most of my own work.
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And taking on a film of that scale was a whole nother story
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of pressure. But yeah, in addition to the
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responsibility of trying to tell a classic story.
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And so I'll never forget the Disney executive flying to
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Germany, where I was editing and living for four months.
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And he sat behind me quietly as I played 30 minutes of the film,
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different scenes that I had cut. They were out of order.
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And one of the first scenes that I cut and I really wanted him to
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see was the evolution of Black Beauty as a wild horse and
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having freedom and family taken away.
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Because I really wanted to clock whether that storyline, not that
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I had much say in it, but at that juncture when you know
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you're getting to that level, No, I did.
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I'm going to take that back. I'm very vocal.
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Disney was an amazing partner. And what was incredible, you go
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through a movie and you have so many different people with
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different opinions and notes, and you hope as a filmmaker that
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you work with people that are in walking in the same direction as
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to why you created something. And I was so lucky that our
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producers understood what the messaging was, what we could do
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for the world with that film. And Disney, really, they had so
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many notes, but they didn't actually have any notes or any
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cut downs to the roundup scenes, which was incredible.
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And those are really, you know, powerful scenes, emotional
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scenes, particularly for for families.
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And we were able to keep the full punch, including Beauty
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rearing up and banging her hooves on the BLM sign.
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I'll never forget sitting with our design team to create that.
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It was a lot bigger on set that I realized it was until we
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actually got to set. That day was huge and Beauty
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reared up and nailed that and we may have a commentary about
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strike horses and and all of that was preserved, which was
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very powerful. So you guys basically took the
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risk creating this movie and I wouldn't say by chance, but
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thankfully Disney picked it up and made it this huge, huge
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movie. But when you guys started, you
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had no idea that that was the platform you guys would have.
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Had no idea, wouldn't have even dreamed that was possible.
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And it was it came out Thanksgiving Day 2020.
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They put a ton of marketing behind it.
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I mean, we were sitting there with my family.
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It was COVID. We were spent a lot of time with
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with family and seeing commercials on TV for forget
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what huge sports event was going on at the time.
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But there it was and it was just neatly surreal.
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And then over the holidays and over Christmas, getting these
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messages from children and families and adults.
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The film performed equally amongst the four quadrants of
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kids, families, young adults. It just, it was amazing how it
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seemed to resonate with everybody and getting so many
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messages of hope. And one young woman said, I
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understand now. My horse just passed away.
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I understand where horses go now because of Black Beauty talking
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about her mother's watching over her from her bed in the stars,
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that that young woman is now a mentee of mine today.
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And it was just it was the response was astounding.
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And it cast a light on the wild horse issue.
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And it really pointed me in the direction of the films that I'm
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pursuing today. Yeah, that's incredible, and it
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is amazing how many people still don't know about it.
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I was a bit like you where I had horses growing up, got away from
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them as I went to college, had kids, and then I didn't know
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anything about Mustangs really when I saw mine.
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And then I started kind of researching it.
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So even people who are in the horse world don't necessarily
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know the situation with Mustangs and what's happening with them.
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How amazing to shine that light on it for so many people that
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are going to watch a family movie.
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Thank you. I really appreciate it.
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I really appreciate it. Yeah, it's beautiful.
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So Black Beauty comes out. It's a huge movie, a huge
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success. What is next for you?
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Well, so around Black Beauty, and it was prior to the film's
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production that we we raised a little bit of money to go out
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into the wild and capture footage of wild horses.
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That was 2018-2019. Those first trips and getting to
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see wild horses where they belong on the range was just,
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you know, I wish for everyone that they could experience that.
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And that's why we called it Wild beauty.
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And then seeing our first roundups in person and just
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immediately, I mean, you know, most people are who attend
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roundups are cognizant of what the BLM is doing to, you know,
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reduce visibility, put you behind a rock.
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But throughout the production of Wild Beauty, as they became more
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conscious of what we were doing, the more they kind of messed
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with us. But I'll never forget my first
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roundup, which was Triple B in 2019 and sitting, you know,
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sitting on the mountain 3 miles away, you know, in a space where
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they, it was 100° and they wouldn't let us put up a, an
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umbrella. I'd later realized that that
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that roundup shouldn't have been happening at that, you know, at
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that level of heat. And I turned to my husband and I
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said, how is there not a Blackfish for wild horses?
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How is this not a documentary that dives into the real issue
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at hand here? And so we knew at that point,
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and we weren't documentarians. I mean, we're narrative film
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makers. But I wanted to bring that
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sensibility to the dock because I it's obviously so crucial for
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people to, to, to need to know and to emotionally invest in a
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narrative film. You're always trying to
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immediately within the 1st 10 pages of the screenplay.
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If, if you want to like the hero or the heroine, you need to
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understand their plight, their individual plight.
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And once you connect with them, you're rooting for them and
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you're rooting for what they believe in.
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And I wanted to bring that sensibility into wild beauty.
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And obviously, you know, in Black Beauty we had over 50
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equine actors. And in wild Beauty you're
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documenting what you're documenting.
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And we just hoped that horses, certain herds would kind of come
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forth to become those those individuals that we could
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spotlight. And that's what so beautifully
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happened. And it was the anarchy herd that
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we really spent a lot of time with over the years and fell in
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love with and just had these amazing days where, you know,
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they moving toward water at dawn and dusk.
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And we just got these unbelievable shots we had at 1.2
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stallions fighting. And we were just in the middle
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of the field and we stood there and they started battling
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sparring right in front of us. And we just captured that.
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And and it just felt like it felt like a nod from fate or we
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don't know how the universe works, but it felt like keep
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going. This is right, Please keep
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going. And it was hard.
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I mean, anybody's who's been to the roundup service has watched
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the videos, knows how awful this is, but we're we were very proud
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of the film. It was nominated for a Critics
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Choice Award and we've screened in Congress five Times Now.
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We brought a wild horse to the Warner Theater in DC in 2022.
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Cars were honking and we made a spectacle out of it.
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And Congresswoman Dina Titus and Steve Cohen, they he, they came
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out and took pictures and have been so supportive and are such
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champions. And so it's really it's parlayed
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into the films that I'm, you know, working on now, one of
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which is called American Wolf with Leonardo DiCaprio
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producing, which is a beautiful, very hard hitting narrative film
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about the reintroduction of wolves in Yellowstone and that
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the the D listing the story is set primarily between 2009 and
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2012. So I've been doing a deep dive
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over the past two years into the world of wolves and
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understanding the multi generational politics and
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mythology and all of the things that go into that and the
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parallels between wolves and wild horses.
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And then there's no horse in this one.
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But I'm working on a reimaginative City of Angels
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right now for Warner Brothers. Hopefully won't be in production
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next year. That's.
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Exciting with documenting the wild horses, what were the goals
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that you really wanted to have happen with that?
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Our our goals really were to drive awareness and to make
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change. And we certainly drove a lot of
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awareness. I mean, it's just been beautiful
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and unexpected how taking on that issue, I never thought in a
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million years I'd ever be in DC lobbying Congress.
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And that's become a big part of my life now is, is trying to, I
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feel like if you've got a platform or beholden to use it
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for your corner of the world, sometimes you get the response
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of what can my voice do? And it's everything your voice
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can do everything. And it's amazing, especially
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with young people. I love connecting with with with
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students and kids who are emboldened to make change.
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And we've we launched the letter writing campaign in 2021 called
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I stand with wild horses, which is now taking out taken on a
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life on on social media and which is incredible and kind of
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the point. But we, we initially launched
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that to encourage children to write letters on behalf of the
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anarchy horses to try to stop that roundup.
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And, and we still use that campaign today where I've I've
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hand walked letters into Congress.
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Last year, I hand walked a stack of letters from foster children
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into into now Senator shifts office before it was Congressman
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Schiff and I asked his staffer. I said if you if you read any of
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them, read the top one. And it was from a young woman
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who had lost her parents and missed her mom so much and she
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had never met a horse before. And she came up to this amazing
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sanctuary in Topanga and Mindful Mustang.
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And I told her the muzzle is the best part.
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And she touched the muzzle of this formerly wild horse.
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And she at the end of that day, she wrote this letter that would
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just break your heart in the first couple of sentences.
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And, and now Senator Schiff, he signed on to the helicopter
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bill, the Wild Horse and Borough Protection Act, within three
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days of handing, handing those letters to his office.
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So it's like 1 voice makes a difference.
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And we are beholden, all of us, to use ours.
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And I found that the stories are really one thing that helps a
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lot of people relate to the horses because a lot of people
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have these really hard, difficult paths where they've
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had losses or had trauma. A lot of the stories I have
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heard, they go in with these horses who have also been taken
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from their families, put in an environment they don't
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necessarily want to be in. And that really creates a
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powerful bond between the two to almost recognize there's another
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being who can maybe understand a bit of how I feel in my
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situation. So that storytelling, which is a
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huge part of what you do, is so powerful and so important in all
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of our lives. Thank you.
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Yeah, it's amazing how they regulate our nervous system and
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help us just relax. I mean, we were just earlier
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this week, we were filming with a wonderful nonprofit called
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Riding the Spectrum. And, and they had one of their
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students come out and they work with children and teens and
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adults with autism. And, and this young woman came
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out and it was amazing to see that transformation when she got
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on the horse. And frankly, we were having a
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stressful day with, you know, real work as a filmmaker and
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just navigating some some toughness on one of our
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projects. And, you know, you try not to
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let anyone know you're stressed when you're trying to do
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something in film. And but it was just amazing to
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just step onto their property and within 15 minutes, you know,
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just hugging on a horse, I was immediately so much calmer.
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And it's amazing the effect that they have on us and the gifts
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that they have. And, and we discussed on that
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day just the importance of second chapters.
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And they, you know, are hopefully about to adopt this
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little, this little former jumper that can't jump anymore,
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but can still do walk, trot and lead line.
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And, and there there's that great quote and Sea Biscuit
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about, you know, you don't throw a life away just because it's
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banged up a little. And, and that's such a beautiful
17:13
and true thing. And that ties to the campaign
17:15
that we're launching now, now called The Lost Horses.
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We've decided to step into the ring, along with another great
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many organizations that have been fighting for it, to try to
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pass the SAFE Act. Tell us a little bit more about
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that campaign and the work that you're doing there.
17:29
Sure. So an amazing person in my life.
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Her name is Doctor Nancy. O'Reilly she.
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I've known her since the process of trying to lift Wild Beauty,
17:38
our dock off the ground. And she emailed me this in
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spring of this year and she said, Ashley, I don't understand
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how this is happening. She had, she was becoming more
17:50
aware of the slaughter pipeline and just how bad that is because
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even horse people don't, a lot of people do not understand how
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bad that is and how many horses and predominantly healthy
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horses. The ASPCA has some staggering
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statistics about how many young or it's primarily young horses
18:06
under the age of 10 that are slaughter pipeline.
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And Doctor Nancy said, you know, I've started rescuing and how
18:14
can we change this? So we discussed the safe act, of
18:17
course, and I said, give me, give me a couple of days and let
18:19
me think about it because obviously it's a huge lift to
18:22
try to meaningfully because we've sent out the petitions and
18:25
we've, and those do those have their place.
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And I encourage people to, it takes 2 seconds.
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Sign on to it. Send the letters to Congress.
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They do work one voice times a million, as, as they say.
18:37
And so I came back to to doctor Nancy and I said, if, if we were
18:41
to try to do this, because our organization is very small.
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I mean, I run our social media and just it's, and now I, I
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fortunately have some help from some wonderful people, but we're
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still very small. And I said if we were to tackle
18:55
a way that we could help fit in, it would be a multi pronged PSA
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campaign because that's where we aid best is the storytelling,
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said multi part PSA campaign. It would need to be coupled with
19:06
lobbying efforts simultaneously and bicoastal PR for the
19:09
entertainment community because we need megaphone voices and the
19:13
world is on social media. We've got to get this out there
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not just to the equestrian community, but to the country,
19:18
to the world. And then we need we need to hit
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it hard in Washington, DC And it's a huge effort.
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And, but let's talk about this and if it's viable.
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And she gave the campaign its flight wings and we went into
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production. We filmed for almost a month in
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July and August, capturing some beautiful content of all
19:37
different types of horses, wild horses, jumpers, thoroughbreds,
19:41
lesson ponies and donkeys. And I ended up riding these 92nd
19:46
vignettes get each dip into the life of a horse, an individual
19:50
horse that can become lost. So it's the jumper that flies
19:54
over fences and loves his girl. But his girl gets older and
19:58
graduates the next horse and finds the best home.
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And that home is great until that kid grows up.
20:04
And then he's sold again and again.
20:06
And the last person can't afford him and he ends up on a trailer.
20:09
And then he's standing there trembling in a feed lot,
20:12
wondering where they all went. And so these very these short
20:16
emotional cinematic. Vignettes and we've approached a
20:20
number of authentic equine loving celebrities to voice
20:23
them. And so we debuted the first one
20:25
yesterday with Dermot Mulroney and then we debuted 1-2 weeks
20:30
ago, kind of our hero PSA with Olympian Jessica Springsteen.
20:33
And Jess is voicing another one of the spots, the show jumper
20:35
spots. So it's our way of trying to get
20:38
people to pay attention through storytelling and then to drive
20:42
them into anger, into sorrow, and also end up into hope and
20:45
action. To click the button, make the
20:47
call, send the message and let's Let's spend 2 minutes to protect
20:50
wild horses and all horses. And so a bit of a summary for
20:55
people who maybe aren't familiar.
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What happens a lot of times as people have a horse, they can't
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keep it, don't want to keep it for whatever reason, they may
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have found a home or a lot of times they're sent to an auction
21:07
which is open to the public. Other people could potentially
21:10
take that horse into their home. But a lot of time, correct
21:13
anything where I'm wrong. A lot of times what we term kill
21:17
buyers will come in and take a lot of the horses that aren't
21:20
getting bids or I mean, I don't know how they pick them, but
21:23
Mustangs are especially vulnerable because a lot of
21:26
times they're not trained or not trained well.
21:29
So that's going to be a much bigger project for someone who,
21:32
say, wants a horse to ride or to just enjoy.
21:35
But the kill buyers come in, gather all these horses, and
21:38
then horse slaughter is illegal in the United States.
21:40
So they can't take it anywhere here.
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So they take it across the border to slaughterhouses there.
21:45
Is that kind of the gist of what is happening right now?
21:48
It's a great summary. And it's and it's a for profit
21:51
industry, obviously. I mean, these kill buyers then
21:54
as a lot of people listening to this.
21:55
No, no, but some people don't. I mean, I didn't know about the
21:58
kill pens until 2020 when I was sitting there in my living room
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during COVID editing Black Beauty under a towel because I
22:05
was trying to block out the sun. And on Sunday, I was on Facebook
22:09
and this little Gray mayor popped up.
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She was a formerly wild horse in a kill pen.
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And I don't know what algorithm pointed me toward that, but that
22:17
was another massive twist, twist into fate.
22:20
And, and it was rescuing her that I came to learn about the
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kill buyer situation, which is, and everybody has a different
22:27
opinion about whether to rescue from kill buyers.
22:29
And a lot of, a lot of opinions are, are warranted.
22:33
It's awful what they're doing and how they're extorting the
22:35
public is, is disgusting. And, you know, praying on
22:38
emotions, praying on our hearts. But at the end of the day, and
22:41
this is just my opinion, the horses are the ones caught in
22:44
the middle of something very nasty.
22:46
So we, we have done our, you know, the rescue that we can as
22:49
a small organization, we've rescued.
22:51
I mean, we're, we're at 60 or 70 horses at this point.
22:56
And whether in partnerships or, or individual rescues, we just
23:00
rescued 5 this summer when we went undercover in Texas again
23:04
into another one of the, I won't mention the name of the auction
23:07
because it's unfortunately now with our documentary, you know,
23:11
I'm not as anonymous as I once was, but we went in with, you
23:14
know, with button cams and we filmed contents and, and we
23:18
rescued a couple of horses during that trip and all again,
23:22
all different types of horses. One of them was this beautiful
23:24
thoroughbred who came in with multiple other thoroughbreds in
23:27
her group and she didn't have a tattoo, but I was just, she was
23:31
so sweet and so clearly previously well taken care for,
23:37
cared for. And I wanted to get her scanned
23:39
for a chip. We rescued her.
23:41
We did. She is a thoroughbred off the
23:42
track, 10 starts. She never placed and got dumped
23:45
and perfectly healthy and beautiful and could be a jumper
23:49
or a therapy horse and another, another chapter.
23:52
And then we rescued 2 yearlings, one of which was so sick.
23:56
And we we were beyond our budget at at this point on our last
23:59
day. And I walked into this corral
24:02
and this little black colt who reminded me so much of Black
24:05
Beauty had a tiniest little star.
24:08
And just, I mean, just his eyes were running and mucus.
24:12
Obviously he had strangles and did have strangles and he just
24:16
came up to me and his eyes were like it just, you know, looked
24:19
sleepy, but it was sick. And he put his head in my hands
24:22
and I just held him and I just started crying.
24:26
And the kill buyer wanted so much money for him.
24:28
It was so disgusting. And I called him back the next
24:32
day and I just said, can you just please, please do something
24:36
that's reasonable? And we had adopted another horse
24:38
from him. And I said, he's so sick.
24:40
And he gave me a better price. And we rescued him.
24:43
And he, he and the other four horses just came from Texas to
24:47
California on Monday. And they're all great and
24:50
they're healthy. And I sat in his, you know,
24:53
they're in quarantine, of course, again.
24:55
But I sat with him until, you know, night fell and I wished I
24:58
wished I could, I wished I could bring a mattress or a blanket
25:02
and just sit with him all night. But Doctor Nancy, who, who is
25:06
part of this campaign, she adopted all five of them.
25:08
So a thoroughbred who's like it's 16 three and then two
25:12
little quarter horse of your lings, a little donkey.
25:15
She actually added on a horse 2 minis who were both pregnant.
25:19
Just this ragtag bunch that finally got off the trailer.
25:22
And it was just again, one beautiful moments that really
25:25
didn't really point that, you know, the universe or something
25:28
greater saying keep going because every life matters.
25:32
And that's so true. Yeah.
25:33
What a. Happy ending to kind of horrible
25:37
journey that they were able to come and find a home.
25:39
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's really, really
25:42
special for people who. You may not know when you talk
25:44
about the kill buyers kind of manipulating the the public or
25:48
people who are interested in horses.
25:50
A lot of times they'll buy the horses at auction and then they
25:53
kind of have. A lot of times I've seen them on
25:55
Facebook pages or through rescue organizations is where I see
25:59
them a lot also where they kind of say this horse is going to
26:02
ship on Monday. We need this much to save them
26:05
and a lot of time. The prices are probably above a
26:08
lot of market value for a horse that has been an auction and
26:11
maybe, you know, has different situations.
26:14
Maybe they're sick, maybe they're pregnant, maybe they're
26:17
not trained and they kind of price them high.
26:20
So people are doing this frantic fundraising trying to save these
26:23
horses to get them off this truck that's going to go to
26:26
slaughter. So, and from what I understand,
26:28
a lot of the times the horses are maybe never really intended
26:31
to go to slaughter like the the kill buyers real intention is
26:34
like this is a horse we can probably get rescued sometimes
26:37
it's. True.
26:38
Sometimes it's not true. There's one particular kill
26:40
buyer that he he's been very candid with me that he used to
26:44
ship to slaughter and he doesn't anymore.
26:46
So yeah, you just given that industry is so for profit and
26:50
often twisted, it's hard to believe what you're hearing.
26:54
But the reality is we're still seeing 20,000 horses.
26:57
Some of them are being shipped, some of them are but 20,000
27:00
horses from what I've been told by major organization just a few
27:05
weeks ago, as it's trending up in 2025, it's likely that it's
27:08
going to be around 25,000 horses this year.
27:11
And it's, it's been, you know, coming down for years and now
27:15
that we're seeing an upswing again, that is really, really
27:17
troubling for the SAFE Act has been around for so long and so
27:21
many great organizations are fighting for it.
27:22
But that, but what we identified was just, there's never been a
27:27
major PSA initiative, not at the level of something really
27:32
coupled with not only elevated storytelling, but just the power
27:37
of public relations is so key to just get something out there.
27:42
And social media is so powerful. So that's that's the vehicle
27:45
that we're using. But but we early on, we were
27:47
like to get this into the zeitgeist, we need you need that
27:51
star power and some of these celebrities, you know, stepping
27:54
into the ring to fight for this. And in such a cancel culture
27:57
sort of world today, so many people are afraid of standing
28:00
with anything but what's been beautiful horse slaughter.
28:05
It's pretty darn black and white.
28:07
And, you know, you understand what is going on.
28:10
And most people say that's wrong.
28:12
How can I help? Yeah, tell us a little.
28:13
Bit about the SAFE Act, is it a new act as an amendment to the
28:17
current act that they're trying to currently push through and
28:20
get approval for the SAFE Act has been.
28:22
Around for well over a decade and it would prohibit it would
28:27
prohibit horses being shipped across our borders for human
28:30
consumption and it would finally close the loophole on the
28:33
possibility of slaughterhouses for horses being reopened in the
28:37
United States because there's a there's an annual rider
28:40
appropriations rider that continues to to block that and
28:45
the possibility of an open opening is very real so the safe
28:50
act would lock that up and it it's bipartisan the last time I
28:54
looked I think it's I don't want to be I don't want to misquote
28:57
but it's it's over 180 Co sponsors I believe this year and
29:01
I'd be curious actually to know how many people have signed on
29:05
since we launched the campaign. And a lot of, you know,
29:07
obviously that's not by any stretch just us, a lot of
29:10
organizations are fighting for this, but we're definitely
29:13
making some waves. We've been taking some
29:15
congressional meetings over the past few weeks to talk to some
29:18
of that are champions who have been involved in the wild horse
29:20
issue with us, who are Co sponsors of SAFE Act.
29:23
And we're mounting a flying day next year in probably late
29:27
February, early March alongside a few other organizations that
29:31
are very powerful, different breed associations as well.
29:34
And we're going to do a coordinated effort in DC and so.
29:39
From the things you've seen, things you've created.
29:44
Horse slaughter is no. Longer an option because I feel
29:46
like this is maybe what the adversary would say what would
29:50
happen what do you guys see the solutions being for those 20,000
29:53
horses who no longer are being shipped across the borders to
29:58
slaughter can you know how can people help with that issue
30:02
maybe also certainly well it's a.
30:03
Misconception that there would be a horse crisis if the SAFE
30:06
Act passed. You know, it's just you can no
30:09
longer, if you don't want it, you can't put your horse on a
30:13
trailer and say I hope, I hope that horse goes to a good home.
30:17
Or you might not know about slaughter at all.
30:19
And so the ASPCA has some, has some really illuminating
30:24
statistics about 1.2 American households have an immediate
30:29
desire and the ability to adopt A horse.
30:32
So if you think about 1.2 million households, let's say,
30:36
you know, cut that in quarters or more, there will be homes for
30:40
the horses. And when Safe Act does knock on
30:43
Wood Pass, that's going to be a time for all of the rescues and
30:47
all of the sanctuaries around the country and frankly, around
30:49
the world there. There's a lot of interest,
30:51
particularly just knowing about wild horses, a lot of interest
30:54
in Europe to save wild horses from the States and bring them
30:57
overseas. Going to be, I think, the
31:00
responsibility of everyone who has horses in their lives,
31:03
whether you can take somebody in or not, to spread that word like
31:07
wildfire. And let's make sure the horses
31:09
that actually really need homes find those soft landings and
31:13
then let's stop this train. You know this easy way out when
31:16
it is a case of over breeding where you just don't want it.
31:19
The confirmation isn't right. Whatever the excuse, you don't
31:23
get to put that horse or those five horses or those twenty
31:26
horses onto a trailer and just say goodbye.
31:30
I keep thinking about it like an overflowing tap in the bathtub.
31:34
Enough. It has to be shut off.
31:37
And of course there will be duplicitous people and things
31:40
will trickle through and the world is not perfect, but this
31:44
open door or to letting them go has to close.
31:48
I think you're right. I.
31:49
Think a lot of the issue is does stem from the equine community
31:55
and that we, you know, people who say they love horses only
32:00
love them until they're not of use to them anymore.
32:03
And one thing I thought when you were talking about the place
32:07
where you just did some filming where they were helping kids
32:09
with autism, is that a lot of people think, you know, a horse
32:14
that's too old or can't perform how they were originally trained
32:18
or maybe even can't be ridden anymore, They're no longer
32:22
useful. And I'm sure one thing that you
32:24
saw is that, and one thing I believe and really want to
32:28
promote is one of the places they can be most useful is
32:31
helping our community and society to be healthier in our
32:36
minds and to be able to have the things we need to navigate in
32:40
the world today. That's pretty crazy sometimes.
32:43
So IA 100% agree that the equine community really needs to step
32:47
up. If we say that we love these
32:49
animals, it's time to, you know, maybe start proving that they're
32:53
not just something that we use and let go when they don't serve
32:57
our purposes anymore 1000%. And it's expensive to own a
33:00
horse and some people race into it and then realize, Oh my gosh.
33:04
I mean, I think there there just needs to be more accountability
33:06
there too. And for some people, yes, people
33:08
fall on hard times and they can't take care of their horses.
33:11
But instead of having it, you know, the a way out that could
33:14
lead to the death, the unimaginable death of that
33:17
horse. There are resources out there.
33:19
ASPCA and other organizations have links and resources to, you
33:25
know, there are, you can get a grant for a little bit of, you
33:28
know, a little stop gap where because there have been stats
33:33
that those organizations have done too about.
33:35
Sometimes it's just a matter of a month or somebody has an
33:38
injury or something happens and it's not, you know, I don't need
33:42
a gap for the year, but I just, I can't, I can't do it this
33:46
month. And there are places to go to
33:49
ask for help. And then if you can't take care
33:51
of the horse, there are places to go to ask for help.
33:53
And the legwork needs to be done to make sure if you can't take
33:57
care of the horse, it has to have a soft landing.
33:59
And anyone who has a horse should have that plan put into
34:03
place about what if the worst happens, where, where is this
34:07
animal going to go? Just like our dogs, You don't
34:10
you don't look at an elderly dog.
34:12
If you love your pup and say, I'm going to ship you to, you
34:16
know, Korea for and let you go to that unimaginable fate.
34:20
What are we talking about? What are we talking about South?
34:23
And I challenge anybody to because I've had a lot of, you
34:27
know, as you can imagine, a lot of different conversations.
34:30
Slaughter is not humane euthanasia.
34:32
Slaughter is not euthanasia, period.
34:35
And I challenge anybody who says, well, what are we going to
34:37
do to to do the legwork to figure that out.
34:40
And if you still believe horses should be should go to auction,
34:44
I challenge you to go down to Texas and sit in an auction, go
34:47
to Bowie, go to Cleburne, go to Presidio and watch those horses
34:51
get on the trailer and look at you through the panels with
34:53
their eyes and tell me that that's OK.
34:55
And it frankly, if you say that's OK, you don't have a soul
34:58
and that's pretty candid. But this has to stop.
35:02
Yeah. And I agree that part of the
35:04
problem is it's an easy out for people and you don't have to see
35:08
what happens to your horses after that.
35:10
Which is another great thing that I think you're doing is you
35:12
really are bringing those visuals to life.
35:14
Something that anyone who checks out some of the videos you've
35:17
done for the Lost Horses campaign, you can.
35:20
You can see exactly that being of what it's like for those
35:22
horses going through that process from a home to someone
35:27
who has left them at an auction and where they might end up in
35:30
the situation they might be in. And a lot of that, I think is
35:33
the cruelty along the way where, not to be blunt, but death can
35:37
sometimes be an easier, more compassionate option, especially
35:42
for, you know, say, the older horses that someone's done with
35:46
may not be able to use anymore. And.
35:49
For, for horses, when it's time, you know, we, we think of our
35:52
pups, our dogs when it's time or they're hurting or that's the
35:57
time to go to a vet and allow that to be humane and graceful
36:01
and compassionate. And again, this is, I believe in
36:05
ASPCA statistic. The, the, the euthanasia costs
36:10
equate to something like the median board for a worse
36:14
monthly. So if you're if you've got a
36:16
worse and you are responsible and you can afford it.
36:20
Saying that humane euthanasia is too costly is also not an
36:26
acceptable excuse as. You've worked on these
36:29
campaigns. Have you received a lot of
36:31
pushback? And I especially think with the
36:34
wild horses, it's a very divisive area where there are
36:37
really strong opinions on both sides and it's hard to sometimes
36:41
find a middle ground. How has that been, kind of
36:43
diving into these areas where some people are very passionate?
36:46
Both sides? Yeah, no.
36:48
It's, it's been interesting. When we started the documentary,
36:53
we, we initially thought it was going to be kind of a, an indie
36:57
planet Earth for wild horses where we would have a celebrity
37:00
narrator and it would be a little bit more above the issue
37:03
versus, you know, ever getting personal.
37:06
And it was through the years of filming and going to the
37:09
roundups and just seeing the injustice and seeing the, you
37:12
know, the lies from the Bureau of Land Management and duplicity
37:16
from the contractors that we got bolder.
37:19
And my background is as a journalist.
37:21
And that kind of came back full force as as that continued to
37:24
unfold. And then the film, as I was
37:26
editing it, I remember the day that I realized, Oh my gosh, I
37:29
was writing the voice over for somebody else.
37:31
And then I started putting in our behind the scenes footage
37:34
and I thought, Oh my gosh, this is going to be different than I
37:38
got. And I was editing while we were
37:41
wrapping up our last filming, which was up in up in Colorado
37:45
with Sandwash Basin during that roundup.
37:48
And, and then I went down to Texas, the first trip to Texas
37:51
undercover. And then that changed.
37:53
That changed everything. That trip changed everything
37:55
because we, we didn't have a cinematographer with us.
37:58
It was too dangerous. We can't bring, you know,
38:00
massive film camera that's, you know, bigger than my half of my
38:03
body. They would not like to.
38:04
See that you probably would not be welcome.
38:06
No, no. No, we had some strong words
38:09
from Bowie in this this last trip when we walked in, got
38:13
kicked out of there pretty promptly.
38:15
But it's we were able to film in another auction safely
38:19
undercover. But I mean, yeah, it's we've
38:21
had, I've had arguments always. I try to always maintain a
38:24
journalistic tone when possible, dealing with those types of
38:29
individuals. So, yeah.
38:32
And then, you know, we're fortunate to have such a
38:34
passionate community of, of advocates who, you know, share,
38:39
share everything and send the letters and send 10 letters and
38:43
or 20 or 100. And we, what I'm really hoping
38:47
with the safe acts and the fact that this is something that
38:51
should bring the equine community together is that we
38:54
will get people from different walks of life, different sports,
38:57
different breeds to stand with this because United, we're
39:01
obviously more powerful and organizations that don't come
39:05
from a standpoint of teamwork, I think are only harming the
39:08
issue. Teamwork is the only way that
39:10
this is going to happen from people from orgs, from the
39:14
breeds. So we and we've received a
39:16
pretty encouraging response from, from different.
39:19
We haven't, we haven't released, we have not yet released.
39:22
Who is standing with us? We will be doing so very soon,
39:26
but and we're still working on certain, certain sports.
39:29
That's what I'll say. Well, it's good.
39:31
It's. Powerful.
39:32
And I think you're right that we need to all come together, you
39:35
know, people that care about horses and, and really, you
39:38
know, start being mature about these issues and trying to set
39:41
emotions aside and see where we can find solutions and where we
39:44
can help these horses. Exactly.
39:47
Yeah. And for the most part that's
39:48
happening, which is which is very encouraging and very
39:50
beautiful and I. Love what you said about
39:53
everybody's voice making a difference because when you look
39:56
at the numbers that there's, you know, probably 60,000 Mustangs
39:59
and holding now 20,000 horses being taken over the border for
40:04
slaughter can fill. Surmountable, you know, what
40:08
difference is it going to make if I take one horse into my home
40:11
or whatnot. But I think as you know, as the
40:14
voices spread as people do what they can, for some people it may
40:17
be adopting a horse. For other people it may just be
40:19
simply sharing on social media, which I don't think people
40:23
understand the full impact that even that can have to just bring
40:27
awareness to someone who maybe hasn't heard about it before
40:29
exactly because. You know everybody's following.
40:32
It's comprised of a great many people, right?
40:34
Not just equestrians, but but trying to just reach people to
40:38
and there's so much why on in our world today, obviously, and
40:41
but to look at this for just a moment and do something good on
40:46
behalf of these horses. And it's been amazing.
40:48
Some of the horses that we've rescued.
40:50
And again, we're so small, but but at the same time, I almost
40:53
hate the fact that I like almost said that because it's so
40:57
impactful to rescue one or to rescue a handful or to rescue 50
41:02
of them because they're individuals just like we are.
41:05
And it's been incredible to see the journey of some of the most
41:09
some of the most just abused horses that we've we've been
41:13
able to personally adopt and pairing.
41:16
There's one particular horse and young woman that all site there
41:19
was a horse that was extremely emaciated.
41:22
And we got a call, she was in Texas and we got a call from
41:25
somebody that knew about our work who had driven past a
41:28
property where this horse was just tied.
41:31
And I mean, when I say emaciated, she was skin and
41:33
bones, this little buckskin. And I got, I get this call from
41:35
a stranger and still don't understand how they got my
41:38
personal number, but glad they did.
41:40
And they called, they described this horse and I'm here in Los
41:43
Angeles with my husband and I get a photo and I just like, Oh
41:46
my God, what do we do? And so I got in touch with local
41:50
law enforcement and they ended up taking the horse away and
41:52
they allowed us to have the first right to figure out an
41:55
adopter for the horse. And so we we took her under our
41:59
care and we paired her with this young woman who had undergone
42:04
some personal abuse and was a teenager that the transformation
42:09
and the photos from day one between those two and this
42:13
little girl like her, you know, her, her physicality was just so
42:17
locked up and she the transformation.
42:22
I don't know if that little girl would be around today without
42:25
the help of that horse. And just a story of profound
42:29
healing between two people that underwent abuse and found
42:33
healing in each other. And that's the power of rescuing
42:36
one life. So that's why we can't lose
42:39
hope. And I know it gets dark
42:41
sometimes, and coming back from Texas this last trip, I mean, I,
42:44
I didn't even want to talk to anybody for a week.
42:46
It was just, it's just awful. But you have to keep going
42:50
because they don't have, they need, they need us.
42:53
They need all of us. So.
42:55
And we can all do our part. Yeah.
42:57
Well, I. Think if you need an an idea for
42:59
your next series that that would be a great 1 is how horses are
43:02
helping people like that. So when you get bored, do you
43:04
know? Yeah, no, really.
43:08
Well, as part of our campaign and, you know, I, I wish we
43:10
could tell every single story with, you know, with our little
43:14
crew, but we're trying to pick up a couple of like a beautiful
43:18
true stories at different rescues and sanctuaries as we're
43:21
able to and to to also tell those stories.
43:24
And that's why we actually went to Riding the Spectrum on
43:26
Monday. We were filming with Dermot
43:28
Mulroney, who voiced our veterans spot, which came out
43:31
yesterday and he was in my best friend's wedding and just a
43:34
great many wonderful movies and television shows and and he has
43:38
horses in his family and he graciously narrated the spot.
43:42
But because we had the crew for the day, like what else can we
43:45
fit in? And we ended up going to riding
43:47
the spectrum and capturing that true story even yet.
43:50
But something we're also doing is encouraging people.
43:53
And we actually have an announcement on social media
43:55
yet, but we're asking record their own rescue stories, 60
43:59
seconds at the Max. And they can do it horizontally,
44:02
vertically, whatever they want to do just know foul language,
44:05
positive stories, even if they're emotional or sad, but 60
44:09
seconds real stories and to share them with us so that we
44:12
can post them to social media because every story matters,
44:15
every life matters, every voice matters.
44:18
That's. Gonna be awesome.
44:19
I'll be looking for that for sure.
44:22
Awesome. Thank.
44:22
You are there any other? Horses that you've encountered
44:25
that have really just made a huge difference in your journey
44:28
here and your desire to to share about them.
44:31
Yeah, they're. They're sadly this horse passed
44:34
away, but there was an amazing horse also 2020.
44:38
We had just launched our nonprofit after deciding to
44:42
rescue that first little Gray Philly, which turned out we
44:46
ended up rescuing 13 horses that day.
44:48
And that was our first sport. When I remember my husband
44:51
looking at me that the next morning and he turns around, he
44:54
wakes up and he looks at me and turns and says, Ashley, what did
44:56
we do? And it took a long time and it
44:59
was, you know, to financially float 13 horses.
45:02
You know, I knew what we were getting into when we made the
45:04
choice, given I've had horses in my life and you know, I, we knew
45:08
what the costs were going to be. But it took, you know, it took
45:12
six or seven months to find adopters for all of those horses
45:14
and doing that slowly and thoughtfully.
45:17
But some around that time, I got an e-mail about a horse that had
45:21
advanced Melanoma. And I was in the middle of
45:24
writing a television series that I wish could get out of it
45:27
wasn't picked up by the studio. And now I don't own the rights
45:30
of the story. And that's another tale in
45:32
itself. But I'm trying to get back
45:33
because it's a beautiful story, horse story, horse TV series.
45:36
So I've written this TV series and the the horse who bonds with
45:40
a little girl in the story who's in tune with a greater wild
45:43
world. She can speak to horses, they
45:45
can speak to her. And I had come up with this
45:48
story of a horse called Ghost and it was a dapple grace
45:51
stallion in the series idea. And after I wrote the series,
45:56
this horse came into my life and it was just bizarre.
45:59
And before I even got a photo of him, I knew I said to my
46:02
husband, it's Ghost, it's Ghost. And the story was he is going to
46:05
be a heartbreak. He has advanced Melanoma and I,
46:09
we ended up adopting him and he did very well until
46:12
unfortunately this year. But he just, he opened something
46:17
up in me that had been just not closed, but it was just horses
46:22
had come back full force. But he was just, I know I'll
46:25
never know a horse quite like that again.
46:28
I dreamed of him before he arrived.
46:31
It was just, again, we all have our different experiences with
46:34
horses, but my connection with him was just uncanny.
46:36
And he ended up coming into the life of one of my mentees who he
46:40
really transformed her life as well in the best possible ways.
46:43
Just another, you know, we all struggle, struggle with
46:46
different things. And he was just very impactful
46:48
for her. So, you know, he marches is on
46:51
wherever that might be. And I think of him very often as
46:54
we have wins and losses with our campaign work.
46:58
And I just I think of him and then I think of Old Man from the
47:00
Anarchy who's in our documentary, who I got to see
47:04
once he stepped out of the just. He seemed to materialize the day
47:08
that we finally saw him and we got to film with him at sunset.
47:11
And so, yeah, I don't know. Like I said earlier, I don't
47:15
know how the universe works, but it it feels like the horses are
47:19
leading the way and we have to keep going for them and
47:22
everything that they've given us.
47:23
Absolutely beautiful. Stories and for sure they have a
47:27
special place in our world today.
47:30
And I really believe also that they deserve to be protected.
47:32
And you know, the interesting thing is that a lot of times the
47:35
most powerful stories happen with the horses that are
47:38
rejected or broken or reactive. Not the perfect little horses
47:42
that fit so nicely into our world.
47:44
The ones that really have had to struggle.
47:46
They can often be the most powerful for the people that
47:49
eventually end up coming in contact with them.
47:51
So as we close, because we are low on time, what would you like
47:56
to leave from closing as to what people can do, how they can
47:58
support you and your campaign and what the next step for for
48:03
the campaign and for anyone interested in becoming involved
48:06
might be? Sure.
48:07
I think we have to. Remember that they cannot be
48:10
forgotten. We can't leave the horses that
48:12
have touched our lives in the shadows.
48:14
We have to allow for them to, even if they can't stay in our
48:19
lives. You have to find a soft landing.
48:21
And for those who can take in a horse, please consider rescuing
48:25
and adopting and, and please support our work.
48:28
Share the work The Lost Horses campaign is running from this
48:31
fall until spring of 2026. We're going to be launching
48:34
these vignettes every couple of weeks, sometimes coupled with an
48:37
interview with with the celebrity or a true story of a
48:40
real rescue. Please share those and you know,
48:43
go to go to the website in 90 seconds.
48:46
You can send a letter to your representatives.
48:49
It's pre written. All you have to do is it's
48:51
losthorses.org. You can go to the take action
48:54
page, put in your zip code and it immediately propagates your
48:57
reps and a pre written letter. If you we encourage you to alter
49:01
it and put it in your own voice. But if you don't have the time
49:03
or you don't want to, just hit send.
49:05
And let's let's really flood our members of Congress through from
49:10
now until spring in a coordinated effort.
49:13
And let's try to pass the SAFE act, not try.
49:15
Let's pass the same facts. And our quote has been so no
49:19
horses lost again. Yeah, I love that.
49:21
And we'll include all the links for anyone who wants to get
49:24
there quickly. If you're here on the podcast,
49:26
you can quickly link up to that. And I just want to thank you so
49:29
much for being here for the work that you do.
49:32
It is so powerful to pair storytelling with the visuals
49:36
and anyone who hasn't seen your work should definitely check it
49:39
out because the visuals are really beautiful and also
49:42
heartbreaking but very powerful. Either way, thank you so much.
49:46
I really appreciate the time today.
49:48
Thank you for. Joining us and learning about
49:50
horses that heal and the humans who help them.
49:53
We hope you'll continue with us on this journey.
49:55
We'd love for you to subscribe on your favorite platform and
49:58
follow the touch of a Mustang on any of the major social media
50:01
outlets. Please share with your friends
50:04
anyone who loves horses or anyone who might be struggling
50:07
and could benefit from this message.
50:09
If you have felt the healing power of horses or help them in
50:12
their divinely appointed mission, please reach out.
50:15
We want to hear your story. As we say goodbye, always
50:18
remember that the horse is always there to help you heal.