Latest / Brian Thomas / Pete Bronson - BOOK - Behind the Lines

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Pete Bronson - BOOK - Behind the Lines · Brian Thomas

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Speaker 1: Seven oh six, Here at Bicky five krc DE Talk Station,
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Speaker 1: a very Happy Tuesday, extra special Happy. We don't have
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Speaker 1: to talk about the war right now, unless my guest
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Speaker 1: in studio wants to talk about it. Peter Bronson. You
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Speaker 1: know Peter Bronson. He's been a newsman for a long
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Speaker 1: long time, award winning editor and columnists at multiple papers,
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Speaker 1: including The Inquirer, where I think we had they were
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Speaker 1: named the best editorial page like anywhere when he was
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Speaker 1: an editorialist at the enquire Of course, He's an author
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Speaker 1: of multiple books, Peter Bronson's Just Make Writes fantastic books,
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Speaker 1: most of which focus on the greater Cincinnati area and
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Speaker 1: historical things surrounding the greater Cincinnati area, including a book
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Speaker 1: he wrote back in two thousand and six, Behind the Lines,
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Speaker 1: The Untold Story of the Cincinni Riots. Peter Bronson, Welcome back,
0:43
Speaker 1: my friend.
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Speaker 2: Glad to be here with you. Brian.
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Speaker 1: We're always a pleasure. Not celebrating the twenty fifth anniversary
0:48
Speaker 1: of the riots are.
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Speaker 2: Always something you really want to celebrate.
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Speaker 1: No, but yeah, I mean you were there. We were
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Speaker 1: with the Inquiry at the time, because you were with
0:54
Speaker 1: the quirt until two thousand and nine. Yes.
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Speaker 2: Yes, So I was editorial page editor at the time
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Speaker 2: of the riots, and and I circled back five years
1:02
Speaker 2: later after the riots to write this book because I
1:05
Speaker 2: thought it was about time that we told the rest
1:07
Speaker 2: of the story, which was how about the police point
1:10
Speaker 2: of view and all this? Because they were blamed for everything,
1:14
Speaker 2: their morale was destroyed. We had probably one of the
1:17
Speaker 2: first examples in US cities of complete depolicing. When you
1:23
Speaker 2: talk about defunding the police, we had it. We had
1:26
Speaker 2: depolicing because the cops were demoralized. They layered on so
1:32
Speaker 2: many levels of review on everything they did. They had
1:36
Speaker 2: seven levels. So the cops basically told me that during
1:39
Speaker 2: this period immediately after the riots, if I'm going to
1:42
Speaker 2: get out of the car and do my job, everything
1:45
Speaker 2: that can happen almost can go wrong and destroy my career.
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Speaker 2: And I can be dragged through these review panels for
1:52
Speaker 2: weeks and months, I can't do my job. All it
1:55
Speaker 2: takes is one citizen to make a complaint. And so
1:58
Speaker 2: what we had then was that period. I don't know
2:01
Speaker 2: if you remember this.
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Speaker 1: But I was out of town during that period. So
2:03
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to refresh my recollection because some of
2:05
Speaker 1: the details on this are very sketchy. For me, I
2:07
Speaker 1: was living in Chicago.
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Speaker 2: It was pretty amazing, Brian, Yeah, because we had the
2:11
Speaker 2: courthouse was almost like a empty It was like there
2:14
Speaker 2: was nobody up there because there were no arrests there.
2:18
Speaker 2: The police were backed off to such an extent that
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Speaker 2: the judges basically had very little to do, and it
2:26
Speaker 2: was a very big art being written.
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Speaker 1: People were being arrested. Of course, that would shut down
2:30
Speaker 1: the criminal justice system. Sorry, we have nothing to do today,
2:32
Speaker 1: I get that. Yeah, remind my listeners and of course
2:35
Speaker 1: refresh my recollection. What was the What sparked the riots?
2:39
Speaker 1: What kicked it off?
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Speaker 2: Yes, well, there's kind of two theories, but let's start
2:44
Speaker 2: with the one that's most common, which is that's the
2:47
Speaker 2: shooting of Timothy Thomas on the seventh of April on
2:50
Speaker 2: a Saturday night. He came around a corner and Officer
2:54
Speaker 2: Stephen Roach was also coming around the corner, and apparently
2:58
Speaker 2: he had his finger on his trigger and he was
3:00
Speaker 2: startled and the gun went off and he killed this
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Speaker 2: young man who was nineteen years old and had multiple
3:07
Speaker 2: warrants for his arrest. That's why they were on a
3:10
Speaker 2: foot chase because they spotted him, They were aware of him.
3:15
Speaker 2: He was well known to the police, and they called
3:18
Speaker 2: it in and the warrants for sure enough, they had
3:20
Speaker 2: seven or eight warrants, I guess, and maybe more than that.
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Speaker 2: And so the guy was it was an unfortunate accident.
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Speaker 1: So it truly was an accident. You're talking about the
3:32
Speaker 1: inadvertent shooting of this gay. It wasn't as if the
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Speaker 1: police like maybe back based on this guy's record, Timothy Thomas,
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Speaker 1: did he have priors for firearm possession? Was he a vil?
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Speaker 2: Minor things?
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Speaker 1: So this isn't eminent apprehension of reasonable of grievous bodily harm.
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Speaker 2: This was just an accident, right, This is just in fact,
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Speaker 2: one of the first cops on the scene was another
3:55
Speaker 2: friend of mine, Paul Humphreys, and he was later became
3:59
Speaker 2: an assistant chief and at the time I think he
4:02
Speaker 2: was a captain. And he showed up and he said
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Speaker 2: the first thing that roach told him, and it's in
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Speaker 2: the book, was it just went off. It just went off.
4:10
Speaker 2: I mean, that's how startled he was. Of course, it's
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Speaker 2: you know, not in compliance with the protocol or training
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Speaker 2: to have your finger on the.
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Speaker 1: Trigger exactly you know.
4:20
Speaker 2: But but you know, this goes into that category of
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Speaker 2: things that happened to police that where they have to
4:24
Speaker 2: make split second decisions. There was also roach described that
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Speaker 2: he thought the kid was reaching for a gun because
4:31
Speaker 2: he was pulling up his pants and so, you know,
4:37
Speaker 2: but it this is an accident. But the next day,
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Speaker 2: throughout that weekend, because there was a vacuum of information
4:45
Speaker 2: over the weekend, and it was filled with rumor and
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Speaker 2: gross fantasies and exaggerations that he was murdered, that the
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Speaker 2: police were covering up, that this was part of a
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Speaker 2: racist pattern by Cincinnati police out there. I mean, I'm
5:01
Speaker 2: not exaggerating. These things were on out there in the media,
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Speaker 2: that he was that the Cincinnati police were hunting down
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Speaker 2: young black men and killing him. Jeez, And that just
5:10
Speaker 2: that just fanned the flames. By Monday, in the Law
5:14
Speaker 2: and Public Safety Committee meeting, of all places, you can't
5:17
Speaker 2: get more ironic than that they had a meeting. Of course,
5:21
Speaker 2: they should have had police presence in there, they did
5:23
Speaker 2: not because the council members decided that having police there
5:27
Speaker 2: might incight civil unrest. Well, what happened is this mob
5:32
Speaker 2: came in and took over the meeting, told the council members,
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Speaker 2: you're not leaving until we get answers. The person that
5:39
Speaker 2: was leading that mob, two of them were Ken Lawson,
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Speaker 2: who was known as the law Dog.
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Speaker 1: I remember Ken, Yeah, I went to law school with
5:45
Speaker 1: that guy. Oh really Yeah, he had some troubles later
5:48
Speaker 1: on in his did.
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Speaker 2: At this point, when I did a research project with
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Speaker 2: him for a book, he told me that on that
5:57
Speaker 2: day when he was sitting there in the lawn public
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Speaker 2: Safety committe meeting, he was high as a kite. He
6:02
Speaker 2: was had a really severe opioid problem. It was so anyway,
6:06
Speaker 2: later he apologized for what he did there because he
6:09
Speaker 2: accused the police of murder in that hearing, and he
6:12
Speaker 2: said they were covering up a murder. He said later
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Speaker 2: many years, about ten years later, that that was a
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Speaker 2: big mistake and he regretted it.
6:19
Speaker 1: Now.
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Speaker 2: The other person that incited that mob was the Reverend
6:23
Speaker 2: Damon Lynch. Sure he was the leader of the Black
6:26
Speaker 2: United Front. And they really did. They kept the council
6:30
Speaker 2: members from leaving. They got on there, took their chairs.
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Speaker 2: They I mean, they basically took over and held the
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Speaker 2: council hostage. And as that mob left, they broke more
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Speaker 2: than two hundred windows at city Hall, and that was
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Speaker 2: the real beginning of the violence.
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Speaker 1: Okay, and in these this this time, during all this,
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Speaker 1: the violences going on obviously, that is I think unquestionably
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Speaker 1: criminal activity. If you're holding the councilmembers hostage, that is
7:00
Speaker 1: a wrongful imprisonment. If you're breaking property public property, that
7:04
Speaker 1: clearly is a violation of law. Was anybody prosecutor for
7:08
Speaker 1: any of that. No, I didn't think so any.
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Speaker 2: And you know, there were just a few people in
7:12
Speaker 2: town who spoke up about this and said that these
7:15
Speaker 2: people should be held responsible for inciting to riot, Yeah,
7:19
Speaker 2: which is exactly what happened. That would include Keith Fangman
7:22
Speaker 2: who was the union president, Mike Allen, who was the
7:26
Speaker 2: prosecutor at the time, police Chief Tom Striker I wrote
7:31
Speaker 2: columns to that effect. I think there were some voices
7:33
Speaker 2: on WLW, like Bill Cunningham and others who raised these questions.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
7:38
Speaker 2: But the irony here is that those of us who
7:40
Speaker 2: raised those questions, we were accused by city leaders of
7:44
Speaker 2: inciting violence.
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Speaker 1: And yes, it's unbelievable. Okay, I'm sorry. My brain typically
7:52
Speaker 1: thinks in a logical and reasonable linear way. I don't
7:54
Speaker 1: understand how you can even make that argument without laughing.
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Speaker 2: It was absurd, But we were accused of inflaming. This
8:03
Speaker 2: justified what they called unrest, which was pure mob violence.
8:07
Speaker 2: In fact, if you want to get to the accurate definition,
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Speaker 2: it was a race riot. All of the people who
8:14
Speaker 2: were dragged from their cars and beaten were white, and
8:17
Speaker 2: there were many. And this was as the police told
8:20
Speaker 2: me when I circled back, they said, well, some of
8:23
Speaker 2: those people were almost unrested to death. They chose this
8:27
Speaker 2: nice neutral word unrest or rebellion or justified violence. It
8:33
Speaker 2: was all part of the media narrative that the Cincinnati
8:36
Speaker 2: police this was all just like Los Angeles with Rodney kissing.
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Speaker 1: Sure so, in other words, the police department, bad police department,
8:47
Speaker 1: inherently racist. Police department wants to and engages in regularly
8:51
Speaker 1: going out and murdering black people. Ergo protesters, pull unrelated
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Speaker 1: white people from their are and beat the living crap
9:01
Speaker 1: out of them. Yes, not people that are affiliate with
9:03
Speaker 1: the police department, mind you, just innocent people driving through absolutely. Okay,
9:07
Speaker 1: that makes no sense either, No.
9:09
Speaker 2: It made no sense. In fact, a lot of this
9:11
Speaker 2: when when we looked back five years later and went
9:14
Speaker 2: back to see who was arrested and so forth. Many
9:17
Speaker 2: of the people who arrested for inciting violence and being
9:19
Speaker 2: part of these mobs were not even from Cincinnati. This
9:23
Speaker 2: whole thing coincided with spring break, so you had a
9:25
Speaker 2: lot of kids who were out there just looking for
9:28
Speaker 2: something to do, and this was like there were it's
9:32
Speaker 2: hard to believe this when you look back back, but
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Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty businesses were torched, burned, or looted
9:38
Speaker 2: or just trashed. We had more than one hundred We
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Speaker 2: had thirty five million dollars in property damage during that week.
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Speaker 2: And that's not even including the cost of the lawsuit
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Speaker 2: settlements that the council just they couldn't wait to do
9:57
Speaker 2: something anything, so they settled this loss that didn't even
10:00
Speaker 2: qualify as a class action and basically handed over ten
10:05
Speaker 2: million to the Black United Front and the ACLU without
10:07
Speaker 2: even going to court to contest it.
10:09
Speaker 1: Well, that's hard to believe. How was the Black United
10:12
Speaker 1: Front and the ACO you harmed by this? Their reputations
10:17
Speaker 1: were They were not specifically targeted by the police. They
10:20
Speaker 1: are outside organizations that came in after the fact who
10:23
Speaker 1: make accusations about the cincint Police Department. I just I'm curious,
10:27
Speaker 1: wildly curious to know how they ended up with their
10:29
Speaker 1: hand in the cookie jar.
10:31
Speaker 2: It was basically a shakedown on a massive scale.
10:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's a shakedown nonetheless. I mean my retort
10:37
Speaker 1: would have been, you're not damaged. Why are you even here?
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Speaker 1: Who said you are the representative of all people black
10:44
Speaker 1: in the city of Cincinnati.
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Speaker 2: Well, and you'll love this as a lawyer too, because
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Speaker 2: the federal judge in the case, in this class action,
10:52
Speaker 2: did not even require the Black United Front to name
10:54
Speaker 2: any of its members. So they're in a class action
10:57
Speaker 2: suit and they don't even have to specify any named
11:00
Speaker 2: one person who has been damaged. So the city settles
11:03
Speaker 2: as for ten million. Other damages are settlements that went
11:08
Speaker 2: out the door for numerous other cases that they settled
11:11
Speaker 2: without really reviewing or contesting them. So I would guess
11:15
Speaker 2: that if you include the boycott that followed, the total
11:19
Speaker 2: costs that city was north of fifty million, probably sixty
11:22
Speaker 2: seventy million.
11:23
Speaker 1: And I guess some could argue that really haven't ever
11:26
Speaker 1: recovered from that. I know a lot of money has
11:28
Speaker 1: been invested in downtown Cincinnati since then, but you know,
11:32
Speaker 1: you destroy your own neighborhoods.
11:33
Speaker 2: We lost businesses like the Masonette during the boycott, we
11:38
Speaker 2: lost the whole North entertainment district on Main Street.
11:41
Speaker 1: That was really starting to take off.
11:43
Speaker 2: It was taken off. And then, you know, let's get
11:45
Speaker 2: to the real loss here, which was that during this
11:48
Speaker 2: depolicing period, homicides doubled to eighty a year, and these
11:53
Speaker 2: were all black on black shootings. We had during that
11:56
Speaker 2: period between two thousand and one and two thousand and
11:59
Speaker 2: five when I wrote book, we had three hundred young
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Speaker 2: black men who were killed.
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Speaker 1: Let's pause on that tragic note. Behind the Lines, the
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Speaker 1: Untold Story of the Cincinnti Riots, written in two thousand
12:09
Speaker 1: and six by my guest here, Peter Bronson. We'll talk
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Speaker 1: more about Karos, the talk station fifty five KRCIT, the
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Speaker 1: talk station Bright Times within the studio Peter Bronson, author
12:18
Speaker 1: out Behind the Lines, He n told stories of the
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Speaker 1: Cincinni riots, which happened in two thousand and one April
12:23
Speaker 1: seventh or fourteenth. He gave me a refresher course on
12:26
Speaker 1: what was going on, including the was it insurrection in
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Speaker 1: the city council they took over and held hostage council members.
12:32
Speaker 1: They broke and smashed things. It sounds remarkably like January
12:35
Speaker 1: sixth there, Pete, don't make comment on that, a little
12:38
Speaker 1: more violent. But I got to correct the record. I
12:40
Speaker 1: actually was here, and I'm wondering where in the hell
12:42
Speaker 1: I was mentally at the time, because we moved back
12:45
Speaker 1: here in ninety eight. Here I am, you're talking about
12:47
Speaker 1: two thousand and one just flew underneath my radar. I
12:49
Speaker 1: guess I was so used to violence in Chicago, and
12:52
Speaker 1: some of the most violent times is when we lived
12:55
Speaker 1: in Chicago. There were more murders back in the nineties
12:58
Speaker 1: than there are now. But don't know, but you refresh
13:01
Speaker 1: my LAC with recollections significantly, and it sounds sadly like
13:05
Speaker 1: not a whole lot's changed.
13:06
Speaker 2: Well, you know, some of these things are that are
13:09
Speaker 2: just the same, Which is that all of this spending,
13:13
Speaker 2: let's call it fifty million to be conservative, But none
13:16
Speaker 2: of that really reached the neighborhoods, the collaborative agreement. For
13:20
Speaker 2: all the hoopla about historic collaborative agreement and everything, it
13:24
Speaker 2: really didn't reach the people who the kids who live
13:28
Speaker 2: in the hood, who are alienated, who maybe fatherless families
13:32
Speaker 2: who are on the streets because they don't have proper supervision.
13:36
Speaker 2: I mean, these problems persist and nothing really was done
13:40
Speaker 2: to address them, and.
13:40
Speaker 1: Are also of course raised under the belief that it's
13:43
Speaker 1: the man's fault, it's the police department's fault, it's none
13:47
Speaker 1: of the situations they find themselves in is anybody's fault
13:49
Speaker 1: but somebody else.
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Speaker 2: And in fact, that's you could argue that it's even
13:53
Speaker 2: worse because here we had this incident back during the
13:56
Speaker 2: music festival where people who are elected officers of the
14:00
Speaker 2: city in Cincinnati said, this person has to be arrested
14:03
Speaker 2: because of the color of his skin. He didn't do
14:04
Speaker 2: anything wrong, but that white guy has to be arrested.
14:07
Speaker 1: Alex Stravinsky.
14:08
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, it really hasn't changed that much, and
14:12
Speaker 2: it's a shame. Most of the money actually went to
14:14
Speaker 2: the people who are leading the protests.
14:17
Speaker 1: Which you mentioned earlier, Black Lives was it the Black Uknight,
14:20
Speaker 1: a front.
14:20
Speaker 2: Black Knight of front Aclius?
14:22
Speaker 1: So did they take the settlement money? And then I
14:24
Speaker 1: know the answer is note invested in any given community
14:27
Speaker 1: or they just put in their own coffers.
14:28
Speaker 2: No, yeah, And in fact if some of the settlements
14:32
Speaker 2: were even concealed from the public, so you were not
14:34
Speaker 2: able to see where the money went, which I thought
14:37
Speaker 2: was outrageous. But again, this was a dangerous time to
14:41
Speaker 2: raise objections or questioning these things because immediately you'd be
14:44
Speaker 2: accused of being inciting violence and being racist. And when
14:48
Speaker 2: the media and the politicians get together and decide to
14:52
Speaker 2: go in one direction, woe to him who stands in
14:55
Speaker 2: their path, because they will run you over.
14:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, they will. And we've seen this, and the allegations
15:02
Speaker 1: or accusations of racism are taken so seriously by people
15:06
Speaker 1: who are objectively not racist, and that's part of the
15:09
Speaker 1: problem that I just don't understand. Yeah, I mean the
15:12
Speaker 1: Somali community of Minnesota, if you pointed out that there
15:15
Speaker 1: was fraud, and there was, it was known to so many.
15:18
Speaker 1: But if you pointed out, they accused you over blanket
15:21
Speaker 1: racism accusations. But that that worked. I mean, I point
15:26
Speaker 1: out all the time here in the Morning show. No,
15:28
Speaker 1: it's the subset of the smaller community that are criminals.
15:32
Speaker 1: We are accusing criminals of being criminals. We don't care
15:35
Speaker 1: what color their skin is. We just don't want to rip.
15:36
Speaker 2: Us off, exactly, and then you go back and you
15:39
Speaker 2: look at what happened. Who suffered most as a result.
15:42
Speaker 1: Of these riots exactly?
15:44
Speaker 2: It was the people that the Black United Front and
15:47
Speaker 2: the ACL you claim to represent. Yeah, they're the ones
15:50
Speaker 2: who lost their sons. They're the ones who saw shootings
15:53
Speaker 2: go from from eighty to three hundred and fifty.
15:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, in four years. And they're also the ones, assuming
15:58
Speaker 1: that they do get something beneficial from the city coffers.
16:01
Speaker 1: They're the ones having destroyed the city and burned down
16:05
Speaker 1: so many businesses and driven so many businesses out. Obviously,
16:08
Speaker 1: they're the ones that struggle with less tax dollars going
16:10
Speaker 1: into the city of cincinnative fund whatever given program and
16:13
Speaker 1: whatever given neighborhood. They're looking half funded.
16:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and absolutely, And then we had the boycott
16:19
Speaker 2: which followed, which was instigated again by the Black United
16:22
Speaker 2: Front with the most incendiary accusations of murdering, raping, killing
16:28
Speaker 2: young black people. These are direct quotes from Damon Lynch
16:31
Speaker 2: at the time when he encouraged all these entertainers like
16:36
Speaker 2: Bill Cosby and Whoopi Goldberg to boycott Cincinnati, and they did,
16:40
Speaker 2: and who suffered from that, Well, it's the people who
16:43
Speaker 2: work in the hotels. It's the people who are bartenders,
16:46
Speaker 2: the restaurants. I mean, who suffered.
16:49
Speaker 1: Race Huckster's basically would you say, I think of Sharpton
16:52
Speaker 1: and Toronto Bradley, he lied outright made up the crime
16:55
Speaker 1: against her, got people agitated, people rioting in the streets
16:59
Speaker 1: all over all. Why he built a career on it.
17:01
Speaker 2: Yeah.
17:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, he makes you wonder who's best interest they have
17:04
Speaker 1: in mind when they're out there advocating for the community.
17:08
Speaker 2: And let's also hold accountable the press, who at one
17:12
Speaker 2: point the mayor said that all of these stories about
17:15
Speaker 2: the boycott, every story should be finished with brought to
17:19
Speaker 2: you by the Cincinnati Enquirer. I mean, that's how bad
17:22
Speaker 2: it was. Anything that Damon Lynch said, it was a headline,
17:26
Speaker 2: without question, without examining it, without checking the facts. It
17:30
Speaker 2: was just pumped out there as if we were the.
17:33
Speaker 1: Environment truth, gospel truth, because he said it. Yeah, do
17:38
Speaker 1: you think we've learned anything before we part company here,
17:40
Speaker 1: Peter Bronson?
17:41
Speaker 2: No, I think in a lot of ways, if anything,
17:43
Speaker 2: the media is worse, and I don't think we've gained
17:47
Speaker 2: a lot with all that.
17:48
Speaker 1: Well, Fortunately, Peter Bronson in the absence of local media
17:52
Speaker 1: either not covering things or not being honest. We have
17:54
Speaker 1: a wealth of social media people out there keeping an
17:57
Speaker 1: eye on things. I think a signal ninety nine right
17:59
Speaker 1: out of the gate, reliable information running counter to the
18:03
Speaker 1: narrative that we are being spoon fed. So it is
18:06
Speaker 1: a different times a question whether we can parlay that
18:08
Speaker 1: into better information.
18:09
Speaker 2: And you don't forget platforms like yours. Well, you do
18:13
Speaker 2: a great job getting out the other side of the story.
18:16
Speaker 1: Trying man. I'm just looking for the truth like everybody. Yeah,
18:20
Speaker 1: Peter Bronson, God bless you man. Thank you so much
18:22
Speaker 1: for all the beautiful books you've written, willingness to come
18:24
Speaker 1: in here and talk about the twenty fifth anniverse. You
18:26
Speaker 1: get a copy of the book, folks. Joell put it
18:27
Speaker 1: up on the blog page behind the lines Untold Stories
18:30
Speaker 1: of Cincinni Riots two thousand and six. Can't believe that
18:32
Speaker 1: much time has flown, Peter. When you write another book,
18:34
Speaker 1: get on the program and if you want to publish
18:36
Speaker 1: a book, Chilidogpress dot com. That is Peter's publishing company,
18:40
Speaker 1: chilidog Press dot com. Peter, I can't wait to see again, brother.
18:43
Speaker 1: All right, thank you Brian My Pleasure, Sobay twenty nine,
18:45
Speaker 1: fifty five KRCD talk stations, Simmer heating and air conditioning
18:47
Speaker 1: for more than eighty years. Third generation family on an operator,
18:50
Speaker 1: Chris Zimmer is proud of the family tradition helping you
18:53
Speaker 1: and your home remains