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Makers and Methods Podcast: Beyond the Print with Justin Lawrence · Makers & Methods Podcast

• speaker-0: On today's episode of Beyond the Print, a mini-series inside the Makers and Methods podcast, presented by Roland DG. We're talking about the t-shirt subscription model that built Oklahoma Shirt Company, what printing for the Oklahoma City Thunder during playoff season really looks like, and how a Roland LG 640 UV printer is powering an in-house cannabis label operation. I'm Adrian Palmer, founder of AP Media Group, and your host of Beyond the Print. I've been covering the print industry since 2012 as the former editor-in-chief of Big Picture Magazine, Screen Printing Magazine, and DTF Printing. The best print shops aren't built on equipment alone. They're built on the people running the business. From the front office to the production floor. The Beyond the Print mini-series goes inside the shops of real Roland DG users to hear what's actually working, what they do differently, and how they're growing. Each episode focuses on one shop owner, one print sector, and the honest story behind their success. Today I'm talking to Justin Lawrence, founder of Oklahoma Shirt Company, a custom screen printing and decoration shop he started in his garage in Oklahoma City back in 2013. What began as a subscription-based t-shirt club celebrating Oklahoma State Pride has grown into one of the most recognized print shops, with nearly 40 employees, high-profile partnerships, including serving as a proud partner of the Oklahoma City Thunder since 2017. and a client list that spans retail, churches, businesses, nonprofits, schools, and beyond. Justin also runs his own vertical cannabis brand Chill, which he prints for in-house. He's a thought leader and frequent speaker at industry events. Justin, it seems like you have more hours in the day than the rest of us. How did you get here and how do you manage it all? speaker-1: That's kind. if you ask my wife, she might say differently. but it's really one of those things that like I've watched my dad and my grandpa and my family, they're it's a family full of entrepreneurs. And my strategy has been like, I've heard since I was a kid, like, if you love what you do, you'll never work a day in your life. I also subscribe to this idea that I'm gonna have to work for the rest of my life. my family's not super rich, not sitting on piles of money. So if I'm gonna work and I'm gonna love what I'm gonna do, then I'm gonna do it the way that my daddy and my papa did it. And that is like they build their ecosystem around them. So how do I do it? Well, it's very fragile. I have a wife that's very, very supportive that holds everything together for me. I have a team at Oklahoma Shirt Company that is just that's the really the secret sauce. Is like if I've done anything really well, it's I've built a team. That's empowered to have a voice to make decisions to keep the culture and the thing alive that we do. I have to trust people a lot. So making people like I often I encourage everybody at Chill or Osco, please like make the call. Make a decision, move the ball down the field. Like don't just get stuck or wait on me. I'd rather you make a bad call and then we talk about it and discuss it. And then you're enabled and empowered to make the call the next time. So I would rather you make the wrong call and us get it really wrong and learn from it. Then you just be scared and sitting on your hands or holding it up because of the speed in which we're moving. So he woke up thinking about work and went to bed thinking about work and he died working. And that's probably gonna be my trajectory. And I that's not a prison, like it's a passion. It's I love what I do, I love being with people, I love serving the businesses on the cannabis side or the shirt side, just the relationships with people. And so that's life-giving to me. turns out it's It's somewhat life-giving to my wife as well. So that is our version of our crazy where we have cultivation, processing, and a dispensary is all in the same building. My screen printing shop is it's two buildings, but it's they're touching. Like Osco, the north side touches chill. So when I leave my house, I come to my piece of heaven in Oklahoma City, and I just hang out here. And it's my job to like, how do I do it? Well, on days that I show up and I'm at my best. I'm walking around and collaborating and kicking tires and helping people move the ball and just generally improving the processes along here. That's the value as I realize like being here, I'm adding value by encouraging people, by holding our quality control processes and our expectations, and being here to just shopkeep a little bit. You know, like there are people that just come through that want to meet our team or want to meet me or want to talk through what's going on. And part of my job is just being here and making myself available. I don't want there to be any dependencies upon me. and I I've gotten that right at Oakland Company. There's a few little ones, but mostly the place can run without me, but it runs better with me. There are daily dependencies, and I'm very plugged in at Chill. I'm the quarterback over there right now. And that's because it's also like three different businesses in one. You have a cultivation business, you have a processing business, you have a retail dispensary business, and you have a wholesale distribution business. And that like That takes a whole lot of special holding and handling and tooling. And so maybe one day at Chill I'll have someone that'll GM and handle that. speaker-0: Yeah, like I said, you have more hours in the day. But no, really, I think it's like the passion. Also, I'm hearing that it takes a village and that you have this entrepreneurial spirit, you know, in your blood. And just seeing that from family members really helped you say, like, okay, I can build this. and now it is not only like your livelihood, but it is your life. So let's go back to where it all began. Oklahoma Shirt Company started in your garage as many screen. screen printers do as a subscription-based t-shirt club focused on Oklahoma State Pride. And you hit 15,000 subscribers at your peak. What was that model? How did it begin? And then what did it teach you about building community and recurring revenue? speaker-1: Yeah, that the shirt of the month story will always be a part of our like it's who we are. It's in our DNA. when I started screen printing, I just had this idea that I think this was special to Oklahoma. but the opportunity was there at the time in 2013, state pride seemed to like at an all-time high. Everyone wanted to have a shirt that said, I'm from Oklahoma or I love Oklahoma. I did not invent shirt the month. But before I started Shirt of the Month, the only shirt of the month that I could really find was this like dive bar shirt of the month club. And it was brilliant. The idea was there's all these dive bars across the US. They're all wickedly charming. Sign up for this. We're gonna send you a t-shirt from one of these dive bars every month. Maybe you've never heard from it, but you're gonna get one from Jake's tavern in Toadsuck, Arkansas. And you're gonna think it's the coolest shirt in the world. So they had traction there, I think. but what I found was Oklahomans with their state pride, and if I was gonna distribute, then I could make a cool product and I'm gonna do it for $10. Really, that kind of made, you know, set it all up for a perfect storm. I had to explain it to people. I started it in January of 2013 and we got a hundred subscriptions in the new in our first month. And I didn't know, like at the time I had PayPal that you could capture. People's email addresses and maybe credit cards. This was PayPal and Google Sheets was the first one. You could sign people up for a subscription inside of PayPal. I didn't have very much control over it. And it was clunky, but we got it going. And then the next month we got another hundred or so subscriptions. Then the next month, another hundred or so. And then that September, we went to the state fair of Oklahoma, set up a booth, and then it was over. Our target demograph Oklahoma for our shirt of the month club was really either like a third grade. elementary school teacher, typically female, or a soccer mom. they would buy subscriptions for their partners or husbands or friends or brothers or cousins, but not not as much. Like probably 75% of or plus was female subscribers. so I just kind of leaned into that and just stayed in the lane of like Oklahoma and ring spun cotton shirts and we never missed. I think that's the hardest thing about like subscription programs and people over the years have asked me like how do I start mine and how do we do it? And I've started Half a dozen other subscription product products over the years that we've either sunseted or are still going. So today we still have our Oklahoma Shirt of the Month, an OSU, which is Oklahoma State University, a licensed NCAA product, and a licensed OU shirt of the month. And we do a licensed OU NIL shirt of the month. And that's a the NIL shirt of the month is a service that we provide for their NIL club. When people over the years would ask me, like, What you need to do, or how do you start it, or what's most important? I still say this don't start a subscription program because it's dead. I I would have to explain to people, yeah, you subscribe like you would a magazine. You guys remember magazines? no, they're magazines are gone too. But the t-shirt thing was like you just sign up and you don't know what shirt you're gonna get, and it's the best mail that you're gonna get. You're gonna get it on or around the first of every month. And simple. And no contract. You can cancel whenever you would like. So those things made it really easy in the price. I just made as many frictionless opportunities for people, a good design, a great shirt, an incredible price, we don't miss, it's gonna show up. There's no contract. Also, when you sign up, we're gonna send you your intro shirt that you're gonna love. And it's their best mail mail that they get every month. And but the thing is, is like if you're gonna do a shirt of the month program, you kind of have to commit to it. So like if you start it and in three months nothing happens, you have to really commit to like a year. Because people have to get it and then they have to like tell people about it and then they have to wear it and then they're like, is that your shirt? is that your shirt? It might take someone like the fourth time before they're like, Okay, I guess I need to do that too. And so it takes a lot of consistency and effort. and I I think that's where people over the years like don't do that super well. But we cracked that, ended up doing really well with it, and then I recognized that perhaps. A subscription based t-shirt program is like a cupcake shop, or is like these vape stores, or is something that like gets really exciting for a moment, and then once the world gets to experience it or see it, then it kind of loses its tabooness or novelty or excitement, and then we just move on to the next thing. So I recognize like perhaps the shirt of the month thing is not gonna be a forever thing. that's not a sustainable business model. But what probably is a sustainable business model. We're still counting on this day, is custom screen printing for churches, schools, businesses, nonprofits, brands, retail, et cetera. So I ended up becoming my biggest client because of our shirt of the month program. So if you're printing 15,000 shirts, which really technically 14 and a half thousand subscriptions was the peak, I have to make 14 and a half thousand shirts. Okay, how do we do that? Well, it takes several automatics, it takes a team, it takes a lot of infrastructure. Then we gotta fold it and bag it and tag it and then ship it and all that mess. So what I ended up doing was building the print shop that could support our subscription-based program and got there and then consistently took all of our resources that we had and just kept pouring it right back into the business. I bought buildings, I bought more presses, I expanded our embroidery capabilities, I have our digital capabilities, like we invested in our branding, our marketing, our website, like all the things. And then It was a field of dreams mentality, but I had the gift of bootstrapping myself with this rocket fuel of shirt of the month. And really what it was was you you are serving your biggest customer with yourself, but now let's go fill all of this capacity and work with what is sustainable businesses. So church of schools, businesses, nonprofits, and all of these 14 and a half thousand people. And actually, there's been over 50,000 people total that have subscribed. The 14 and a half thousand truthfully was like active at one point in time. So, like if you take 14 and a half thousand times thirteen dollars and four cents, whatever that number is, that was the amount of money that this little business would get on on or around the first of every month. And so my responsibility was taking that and reinvesting, building, saving, creating. And that's what I did. Like I built the ship. That would carry us on later from the opportunity that happened in the beginning, but I didn't stay stuck on our success. Now, had I not built a print shop and had I like been smarter and maybe like found a broker or someone to print for me and just stayed small, like me and one person, I probably would have like individually made like some great money and done something. But again, like I'm thankful that I didn't stay stuck on that because This is what I'm doing now is I do believe is sustainable and it's certainly a lot more life-giving. working with brands, all sorts of different customers is way better than going all in on a retail product for for how I'm wired and like what I want to do. It has moved us into a a position where we have these legacy shirt of the month products that are kind of always here and we'll always offer these. But our primary thing is we need to be printing, we need to be screen printing and doing embroidery for, you know. Oklahoma businesses. We want to be Oklahoma's shirt company. That's our kind of top goal. speaker-0: Yeah. When you said twenty thirteen, I really was taken back to I was twenty-three right out of college. All of my shirts were OU and OSU, but Ohio University and Ohio State University. But I really can picture that exact shirt, that exact feel, the American apparel of it all. and I probably would have subscribed to this because that's that was definitely the end thing. But how cool of you to like realize like, okay, this is working. But what else can we do? And you also mentioned, you know, wanting to like continue with that Oklahoma state pride. So speaking of community and also having a loyal following, let's talk about the Oklahoma City Thunder. speaker-1: I love the Thunder. Yeah. speaker-0: So you're a partner there when the Thunder made their playoff run this year. What did that actually look like inside your shop? And also how did you even get that connection? speaker-1: Yeah. So this all started with playoff shirts in the arena. That's the coolest thing we get to do, full stop. It's the biggest thing we get to do. what started our relationship with the Thunder too. I had a dear friend who used to work for me. Her name's Jennifer. she was best, she was good friends with the marketing director at The Thunder at the time. and Jen was like, Hey, we need to go talk to these people. I want to introduce you. I think that it makes a whole lot of sense for Oklahoma Shure Company to be doing this. And I was Yep, that's Let's talk. I would love nothing more. I was not a basketball fan at the time. I've not been a sports fan my whole life. Muse choir, band, and drama has been like me. But I realized hey, we got a pro basketball team. we should probably have a relationship with these people. Jen gets us a meeting. It was awesome. And then they start just giving us trying little projects with us. the championships was incredible. we did 14 activations of printing 20,000 shirts for the arena last year. This year we did eight. And it felt really good. you know, last year was exhausting. And what's ironic was after last year, between last year and this year, I lost like most of my major leadership here at Oakland Shure Company. So that that was scary, but it was the timing was good and we really went with this kind of next man up mentality from all the departments and next people, and it was perfect. And so the the proof of that was when we went to do the playoffs this year. I didn't have my ride or die Jaron, my production manager, who's been with me from the beginning. he wasn't here, but I had James, who was our next man up and had been studying under Jaron. Jaron's little brother activated a night shift for us this year, which was awesome, a second shift so that when we were in playoff printing, we could keep our custom shop alive. Cause that's what's hard. Printing 20,000 shirts and really 40,000 impressions, 20,000 fronts. Then you turn around and do the sleeves, and we gotta do it in two days. Yeah. So speaker-0: While still keeping your regular business going. It's like being in so many places at once. Yep. Yeah, that's a lot. speaker-1: It's the busy time of year for us, which is cool. So the we have to flip our shop into a special configuration. we those two it takes us two days to do a run. We plan for it. our production shop only you know, it kind of retools. We flip up, we turn on all six automatics to do the same thing. We staff it with 22 people, we pull people from the front of house. It's kind of an all hands on deck thing, and everyone goes back there and we do it. And It takes an incredible amount of communication, logistics, checking, pre-flighting, going. We often are ordered we're often sitting on three games worth of shirts at a time. So 60,000 pieces. and that takes a lot of floor space, you know? So like our warehouses is busting. And then as soon as we get one printed, we get it out of here, we take it to the arena and we go ahead and order like the next round of shirts so that we can't cause sometimes it's Blue, sometimes it's white, sometimes it's checkerboard, sometimes it's black, sometimes they change their mind at the last minute. my God. But you know, we smile and we figure it out. And that's that's also the secret sauce to our relationship is I've told them, like, hey, anything you guys ask, we're gonna figure out. And there's usually a reason why they're they're making me ask. And they have found like trust in a partner because there's like we can't miss. And that's what's cool with the Thunder, is like there's a There's a dozen print shops in Texas that could probably do this. I don't know that there's one in Oklahoma City that could there's not one in Oklahoma City, there's one in Tulsa that could do this. but they really care about local. And they really care, like they're the biggest organization we work with. And our relationship with the Thunder is very different than our relationship with them. Like they truly Did bring us in a partner. Now I use the partner language because we officially are partners now. Last year I signed an agreement with them. I paid I s paid a bunch of money, and we are now like the official printers and partners of which is a cool thing for us. Like it's an all-in marketing effort for me. our identity in Oklahoma City is, you know, really wrapped up into that relationship with the Thunder. but it also is like A really organic, the shirt of the month feeling, like that state pride, people are feeling everyone in Oklahoma City loves the thunder. speaker-0: Yeah, I feel like you're really, really part of it. And that leads back to the passion that you have for your business and for your city. Obviously, this is a ton and ton of work for you and your staff, but it also seems like you're having fun with it and you're going to the games and you're part of the community. and I think that that is what brings that like life into this. And yes, it's obviously a business, but you're enjoying the aspects of it too. speaker-1: Yeah, I went all in with my wife and said, Hey, we're gonna go to the games. We're gonna go. We're gonna go to every one of them. We're gonna check this out. And then I fell in love with the Thunder and I became a ravenous basketball fan. Collect basketball cards like crazy now. I'm obsessed with our boys. I'm obsessed with the organization. And it's like it's it was that kind of cherry on top. So now you have this ravenous fan weaponizing his business. to like live fully in this privilege of having access to things that like I have no business having access to. it's been fun getting to develop relationships with the players and their foundations and the things that they're doing. It's fun to like just be this adjacent to all of the this front row seats to witness like this cool thing that's happening in Oklahoma City. And it's just with such great good people and yeah, it's awesome. speaker-0: You've built multiple businesses, hired dozens of people, and created a culture that people in this industry genuinely talk about. What is the hardest part of leading a growing company that nobody warns you about? speaker-1: Oof. That's a good question. it's a it's a privilege and a gift, but like the thing, it's lonely at the top is not like a poor me. I'm constantly emptying myself out for this place and the people inside of it and and par and the fruits of that of of an owner, which you can never substitute. This is not Justin. This is like any owner of any business that has started that business generally is. one of the most special people inside of that business that customers want to interact with, that the staff they want, they love their job because they're working with this person, or you're able to do special things because you have this person that is like maybe has some resources or a focus that they're going after it. And I think that like that's the special sauce. that's what I got wrong at Chill. When I opened a chill in the beginning, I was so focused on Oakland Company. I thought I could just build this really nice weed Apple store that was pretty, had all the products, had good people, branded, marketing well, all the things. It had all of it, but what it didn't have was the heart and soul of an owner. Because I, one, I didn't know much about the culture at the time, and two, I was just trying to open businesses. Cause hey, look, everything I touch is gold. Yeah, right. That was stupid. Like I never sh actually I should have never opened Chill. I should have just stayed focused on Oklahoma Shirt Company. but here we are. And now chill is killing it. Everything's great. it's awesome, but it's a lot. and it was a big commitment. I almost didn't I didn't know really what was going into it. But why it's so much is because over the past three years, I've put my blood and guts and livers and hearts and soul into chill, like I did at Oklahoma Shure Company. And surprise, now it's special. So I think that's the hardest part of leading a growing company is like culture comes at a cost. you can't fake it. You can't outsource it. you can talk about it, you can write stuff on the walls, you can put banners up, you can tell people this is who we are. But if you're not living it out day after day, and if people aren't seeing you and seeing you engaged and passionate, then it just becomes like, what is this thing that we're doing? Every single business and every single thing doesn't have to be like special and like super like a whole thing. But like if there is something that's special, those are the those are the moments that people enjoy hey my Tuesday normally sucks but I get to call my favorite t-shirt company and order stickers or order promotional items or whatever. So I think like Going back to where you can't fake it or you can't manufacture it, it truly is it for my whole life before I started my business, everything was like people first, people first, people forward. we're not making a product to sell, you're in the church. So it's very much like community and grace and togetherness and like a focus on a good thing. And I was able to take all of those shared experiences and weaponize them in a for-profit business. That's hey, we can make t-shirts for people, but let's like, let's take care of us and let's take care of each other and let's take care of this community. And so that messaging, it has to be truly top-down. And I what I would say is heart forward. And it comes with the price. The price that comes with that, that's why I opened with sadness, is because when you give yourself and your heart to people, I think that truly is like the meaning of life. we're here for each other. We're here to serve each other. We're here to help each other. We're here to like. Raise babies together, we're here to hold each other in our lowest moments. and work is also a part of that. What I learned from my papa and my family was like. You shouldn't hire family, like business and family, and friends and business, and don't hire your friends, or don't hire any of your family members. What know is just to be true and authentic to myself, be heart forward and lead in a way that is supported by things like generosity and care and dignity and letting an individual like however they feel or what's important to them, like saving space for that. Like everybody's voice matters, everyone has a seat at the table. Sometimes the buck has to stop with me and I have to be the asshole that makes a decision, but there's room for everybody. And when you make room for everybody, that's what I mean when their culture comes at a cost. Because really what culture is, is individuals, not just one, but the group feeling like they have a place and feeling like they are seen and feeling like they are heard and their needs are either met or at least acknowledged. And I think that's where small business owners get it wrong over and over again is like It's like, I hired all of you. I said this at one point early on. It still haunts me. I was like, I was crashing out on my leadership team early, early on, because I'm stressed. I'm in med school. My shirt of the month thing's blowing up. My wife's mad that I'm at work. I'm having another kid. all of my stresses are just at at all time high. And I'm I'm crashing out on my team telling them, Your job is to make my life easier. Yeah, that sucks. Like, that's not your job. Like, that's one of the fruits of like When y everything's doing it, yes, I get to shed all of these stresses, but that's not the idea. I'll call out my print shop owners. that's where I think we get it wrong is you are maybe talented, or you do maybe have motion in some area, or you can do something, but like you can't do it alone. If you could do it alone, you would be doing that. But you have to bring people along. And when you bring people along, it's not just about you anymore. It's about you and the team. My mentor, George, in his email signature, my business coach. It's like this old African proverb. And it's something like, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. Something like that. But that it's a general idea. Often it's faster to do things yourself and not teach or not bring along or hold accountable or hold up or whatever. But the truth is, is like kind of back to your original question, Adrian, is like, how do I do this? How do I have the most hours in the day? It's this. Like it's I let people into my life. I let people take control, I let people make the call and it's messy and that and we also break each other's hearts and we also get upset. The beauty of this human experience that we have together is yes, let's make t shirts, let's figure out how to do that, and let's figure out how to like take care of each other along the way. You know. speaker-0: Absolutely. a thousand percent. I think you're one of the most genuine, authentic people I know, but there's a lot of pressure to be the best version of yourself every single day and lead a team and run multiple businesses. I forgot about the med school of it all, so we might have to circle back on that one because I forgot that your journey was not always. speaker-1: T shirts. Yeah. speaker-0: but let's get into what you're working on now. So you've made a real move into packaging, stickers, and labels. What pushed you in that direction and how different is that world from apparel? speaker-1: Yeah, so in so when I started Oklahoma Shure Company, you know, screen printing, very natural, embroidery, very natural, promotional products. That's something that like we have and we're we could do better at. and then design services. And all along there's always been part of it is like me being a kid of the nineties and like loving stickers and you cover your s fridge in stickers, my laptop's covered in stickers. stickers has always been something that's been important to me. and I've never been able to make stickers well. So I bought a Roland VG2 540 a long time ago, and probably six or seven years ago. And I decided, like, hey, we're gonna start doing in-house stickers. And I was there's also a good friend of mine who a business here in town in Oklahoma City, they're called Lettering Express. Lettering Express, they're the kings of car raps, building wraps, just like large format banner science, stuff like that. Well, we need to get into sticker world. And so I got this machine. I started making stickers. They were terrible because like I didn't understand. Turns out, like DTF, like DTG, any of these digital printers, hey, Mr. and Mrs. Print Shop owner, turns out these are really like craftsman focused machines. You can't it's there's no like silver bullet, there's no plug it in, hit a button and it just works. No, you have to be dialed in your art, you have to be dialed in your technical settings, your machine maintenance has to be online. You have to be running it regularly, and you have to be watching it and making changes on the fly, or else you're never gonna get the product that you really want. Surprise. These digital, anytime I went digital, I thought it would be easier because like screen printing's hard. I cracked emulsion, I cracked a darkroom, I cracked screens, I cracked post exposure, I cracked HSA, I cracked what like all of the different hard things of screen printing. Because it was so manual, you're like, I don't have a choice. But at when things like digital come, you're just like, yeah, it's like my printer that's in the office that I just like, hey, here's this PDF, print it. look, here's my thing. That's the idea that we all have about digital printing. And that's the idea that I'm here to really hopefully to educate all of my fellow screen printers, is that like it takes a craftsman. It's two things. You gotta have a dedicated operator, which maybe that's you. If it's not you, You have to have the dedicated operator and you have to know how to use it too, because you gotta train this guy, hold him accountable, make sure they're doing all the things and whatnot. When Chill really started doing well was when we discovered that like what we should be doing is the products that we're making. And really, what I ended up doing was releasing new products every two weeks. And so, since we were releasing new products every two weeks, 1200 units every two weeks, we're making these like frog stickers and we're wrapping, we got vape carts that we wrap in stickers, and we got jars that we wrap in stickers. And so, really, what happened was was I wanted to be competitive in the Oklahoma City market in a way that I needed to stand out. And so how I was gonna do that was truly single source. So kind of like single source is the is the language in the cannabis space, but it works, it it translates over to screen printing well too. Like single source means I design, I manufacture. And I distribute. Single source in the cannabis space means I grew it. I grew the flower. I processed it. I took it and made a permutation of it. And then I put it in a jar and or a bag, and now I'm selling it to you. So I've controlled the quality control from really the beginning to the end. Some people let somebody else grow everything, then they get that, and then they do something with it, and then they package it. So we're releasing a product every two weeks and a lot of them. And one of the things that's special about what we do is it goes in these little jars. And little jars, there's a lot of culture that comes along with that of artwork and glossing and embossing and special and holographs and special things. So that instantly reignited the creator in me and the the maker. Because now I'm back. I have I have a new tool. And so I'm able to take that, make a permutation, then. My manufacturing secret really comes into these. So I got a new printer that was a UV printer. I had to learn UV. And why UV was important was because I wanted to be able to stack gloss. I wanted to be able to stack white inks. I wanted things to be able to cure quickly on it and it be ready to rock and roll. You give up some things by going UV, but you gain some things by going UV. And so for the things that I'm specifically making, like die-cut stickers, labels, which is really my sweet spot. this they're serving me well. Chill became Oklahoma Shirt Company's biggest custom sticker customer. And I built infrastructure around that. I was able to promote a guy internally at Oklahoma Shirt Company to come alongside with me to help me learn this machine and to like he be the true operator of it. after I kind of got all my stuff online and it was working and we're hitting and we're good with the printers, I've got my mediums dialed. I know Times, I've got all of our cut files. We understand how the art actually works now. because it's so different than screen printing. It seems like it should be easy, but it's different. And especially when you start using like gloss layers and like separation. So there's like a whole technical side to all of this, which we'll get into. but I found that once I cracked a few of these like easy things, but you have to know all of it, then I could open up myself to a few other very specific operators. So now I have three or four. For cannabis brands in Oklahoma City that are like Chill, that have drops every two to three or four weeks. And we're printing lots of labels for them. And it's also a trust building exercise. Like people in the cannabis space in Oklahoma have learned to trust Chill as like a top producer, provider. And then they've also seen Oklahoma Shure Company's reputation. And so then there's this natural, like, I don't even have to market. People are asking me to make their stickers because they're like, damn, this is good, and you don't miss, and it's on time and it's fast, and there's no headaches, and there's blah blah blah. And it's like, yeah, this is the way. And so it's an incredible new vertical that we've created inside of Oklahoma Shure Company because of chill. The learning curve was a little steep, but once we cracked it, once we understood it, then it's just another machine. Like Chase does his regular weekly maintenance. We they run nonstop. Night before last. I queued up about 18 hours worth of printing, said a prayer, and then turned the lights off and left. And I came back the next morning and there's just piles of stickers. It's like time travel. They didn't fail, they didn't fault. Like there's just piles of paper down that needed to be weeded and teed up, and it was just like, holy crap, like it's it's cool when you're dialed and it all happens and it comes together. It's been great because it's scalable. I can pass it on to my team. it it's pretty self-explanatory. I'm very, very thankful for that. And I would not be able to do what I'm doing at Chill. We would not have found our success unless we were making in-house printers or do making in-house stickers for labels for ourselves. Because if I had to rely on somebody else, I just could I couldn't turn it in time. Cause often we have a like we'll have a release on Friday and I'm running the stickers on Wednesday and we're slapping labels on jars on Thursday and we're dropping on Friday. And that like that cycle over and over and over again. Has been a cons has been rocket fuel of consistency for our brand because customers know every two weeks chill's got six new flavors. Let's go check it out. But also consistency and reps and goodness in like making a quality product over and over and over again. We're just we just keep getting better and better and better and better and better. And so stressing ourselves into that two weeks drop, that two week drop cadence was truly like the North Star. I needed a North Star at Chill from a leadership standpoint. Otherwise, it's just like, hey guys, when's the next round going out? Hey guys, when's the next round going out? Hey guys, when's the next round going out? no. Two weeks. Every Friday, we have a drop. Do you guys all agree? Do we can we do this? Do we have the capabilities? Yes. Okay, cool. Let's do it. And then, like, holding that accountable has been like the single most stabilizing force for chill. and the truly the heart of that was these rolling machines that. I can I can design on Wednesday night and print Wednesday night and my team shows up Thursday morning and they've got all their stuff. speaker-0: Yeah, it seems like it's, just super user friendly and it's been a great addition to your business. speaker-1: One thing that gave me confidence early on that really helped was when our rolling machine shows up, it ships, and then a few days later they ship a tech and he shows up and that's the greatest thing because not only does he unbox your machine, get it set up, leveled, registered, all good, does it check out, is it doing all the things that it did at from the manufacturing facility before it came here? And then he gets it dialed and then is just like he's there for another day. Like what you, what are you guys working on? I want to see this machine in usage. I want to see your art files. I have some test art files, but I want to see your art files because often, you know, if you don't set them up correctly, you're never gonna get what you need. so that was a really good like educational experience being with that tech for the first time because one, he put the fear of God into me about like, hey, this is a precision, nice, incredible machine that is a grandfather clock that you have to take care of. You don't have to do a lot. It's not hard. But if you will regularly do these things, this machine will last forever. But if you skip a few steps, or if you don't do this regularly, then you will have issues. And then he said, You're either gonna listen to me or you're gonna learn this the hard way. I had bought three different DTG machines previously, bought and sold, bought and sold, and previous experience with our digital printing equipment. I knew what he was talking about. And I think that like As a cautionary tale for anyone getting into digital printing, I'm sure as technology increases, these machines just get even more easy and automated. You have to baby these things. The environment matters. Temperature matter like your dark room. Relative humidity matters like your dark room. dust-free environments, climate controlled environments, regular maintenance, taking care of those heads. If you'll treat if you'll baby it, it'll last forever. But if you beat it up and you throw it in the dusty print shop and just expect it to work when you hit the button, you're not gonna have. you're not gonna have a reliable machine. You have to understand and submit yourself to this machine, or else it's not gonna serve you well. speaker-0: Yeah. We've known each other for years because of your involvement in the print industry. You host the print hustlers conference every year, you're on industry podcasts, you really have your finger on the pulse. where do you see decorated apparel and packaging heading over the next few years? Do you see your t shirt customers also asking for stickers and vice versa? speaker-1: Yeah, the the landscape of our industry is constantly evolving, isn't it? I I have felt like since even COVID, there's been some explanation or some what's it supposed to be or where are we going? And maybe that's just how small business is. It's it's just dynamic and it's constantly changing. I I think that like decorated apparel in the packaging space over the next few years, I don't think it's going anywhere. Like people are gonna wear t shirts. how how we decorate those t shirts. Who knows? I I think that screen printing is still superior as far as durability. DTF is is superior as far as like multicolors and speed, but screen printing is still king of speed. You know, if if the Thunder needs 20,000 shirts in two days, I don't know how you would DTF that. Also, that opportunity comes around once a year for us. You know, so like I can't be tooled only for that. Screen printing and embroidery, and even digital printing, we'll we'll throw it in there too. the barrier to entry used to be higher. If you wanted to screen print your garage, you had to buy, you had to have the darkroom, you have to have the press, you have to have all the things. If you want to do embroidery in your garage, you gotta have a really expensive machine. you can piece together screen printing pretty cheaply to get there, but with digital printing, the barrier to entry is It's big as you want it to be, I guess. if you want to make your own DTF films in-house or digital printing stickers and labels in-house, those for the starter, the maker, that might be a big jump because there is online capabilities. Like there is people like me that you can have a relationship with that I can print stuff for you at a wholesale price, so then you can sell it to your customers. Or if you are ready and you have the business and you wanna go after digital printing, you know, I I would build the customer first, like focus on sales. and get that get that motion and if if you're looking for sustainability, if you're starting from scratch and you have nothing, go find the customer first and then find the equipment. Because if you find the equipment and then you're waiting on the customer, you might get lucky, but it it's kind of the field of dreams mentality. If you build it, they will come. I d I that's what I think's changing. I think that it's more so Now people are relationship forward and how can you help me accomplish what it is that I'm trying to do? me having digital printing in-house is something that helps me in a very specific way. You can do anything that you want, but you can't do everything. you you gotta pick a few lanes that you're gonna specialize in. Otherwise, you're just become a broker, And I think there's a space for brokers and brokers I need more brokers in my life, to be honest. I need people that are bringing me customers and that are weaponizing my manufacturing capabilities. but it's when the brokers try to become manufacturers, or when the manufacturers try to become brokers, or people try to go in areas that they aren't ready for, that's where headaches and maybe things can happen. So over the next few years, I think things that are gonna be important are like speed will go up. I promise you that. price will go down. I promise you that. And hopefully quality goes up as we do as well. But like with Chill, I have the infrastructure. I found the customer to build my my digital print shop that I need. Now I want to go backfill my digital print shop with other customers around that can fill the similar needs that Chill has that makes a lot of sense. So I'm optimistic about the packaging and decorated apparel space, but it's gonna be dynamic. And it's gonna change. And so I would just say to the new people that are jumping in or people that are thinking about jumping into the next thing, do it. But also just think about what's next. Like always be thinking about like if I'm doing this today, will I be doing this in three years? And if you are, then great. But if you're not, then you might think about like maybe I prepare for three years down the road, or maybe I look at what's past that, or maybe you know, because again, like where I see people fail in this space. Is when they jump in and they pick a lane and then they get all this, they get set up and they do it all, and then they bury their head in the sand. Because they're like, I'm established, I'm set up, and I'm good and I'm going. And it's kind of the lesson that I learned at Chill. Like you, you can build it, you can set it, you can have all the things, but you can't stop. Like it's dynamic. You have to always be looking for new customers. That's what I do here at Oklahoma Shirt Company that nobody else does. I'm going to trade shows and I'm paying attention to new technology. I'm listening to industry podcast and people like Adrian and trying to have a pulse as to where the industry is going. I don't think I need to be an early adopter anymore, like I once was, but I need to be an early mover. I don't need to buy the first DTF machine. I don't need to buy the first of whatever. But you better know I I have a friend that has one and I'm watching them and I'm asking them lots of questions to try to learn off of their backs. being in a space where you can remain dynamic. or agile and nimble and pivot when things happen and not being so like I'm pretty married to screen printing. I have a huge screen printing shop. I hope that maybe there's less screen printing shops as the years go on. And maybe I become kind of like what vinyl or record makers are today. There's like a couple record big record makers in the US. Because there doesn't need to be hundreds of them. There only needs to be a few of them. Again, T-shirts are different, but I'm hoping that like My screen printing capabilities kinda stay like that. And when I need it I can activate it. screen printing is always true to who we are first, but I'm also not gonna die on that hill either, you know. speaker-0: Yeah. Well fantastic feedback. I think the age-old question always, especially in the digital print space, is just speed, quality, and price, and like can we have it all in the way that we want it? and I think we will be seeing that for sure over the next few years. But a thousand percent on everything you said about, you know, what like what you should be offering your customers and finding your niche, but also like exploring other avenues. yeah, no, all of that was that was awesome. Thanks. Okay, so we ask every beyond the print guest. This final question. What is the one thing about running Oklahoma shirt company that you would never post on social media? speaker-1: It gets dark sometimes. Like, it's I mean, when said earlier like it's lonely at the top, what that really means is like my payroll every two weeks is a lot. And my work often is like a week or two out, booked in front of us. And somehow we're still here and somehow we haven't missed a payroll. but like It is the the risks and the dynamics of like these are real people's lives. And when you fire somebody, you mess with someone's life and you mess with someone's money. And most people know what that feels like. But when you like lay off people, or when you have to like shutter a process or a department or a something that like involves people, that is that wrecks me. I think some people are built for like, yeah. That's fine. It's just business. That's not how I do business. I'm doing life and I'm doing like family and I'm doing like sustainability and I'm doing like this person just had a kid or this person's mom died or this like person's cat whatever. Like so I think I carry all of that in probably a probably too much of a way. I'm not gonna apologize for that because I think it is part of like who we are, but I carry a lot of the pains and the burdens. I care about all of the people that work here in a chill and I try to like get into their lives and I try to know about their kids or their partners or their endeavors or like what hurts them or what they what their heart is for. And when you open yourself up to people, you open yourself up to that. When you freely give yourself to so many people and you're genuine about it, all of those people feel like they have a connection with you. And so then when you Try pull back on that connection and you try to just do you, or you try to have some space, or you're having a bad day and you just want to tell someone. those are the moments that like I think I get leadership wrong the most. Like when I am just impulsive or I'm just reactive, or I forget that like, hey, I've got all this stress and all these crazy things going on, and you're just doing that. I don't know how I could ever post that on social media, but the truth is, is like I feel the burden of people's lives. And that and I feel responsible for that. I also get the opportunity to make them better and to help them and to encourage and to lead and to challenge, but I have the opportunity also to like not hold that privilege well or to abuse that privilege. yeah, that. speaker-0: It's dynamic. And I think your answer really shows just how great of a leader you are and how great of a person you are. So thank you. Thank you, Justin, for being here. Where can our listeners find you? speaker-1: Yes, so I'm all over Instagram, Justin T. Lawrence. you can follow Oklahoma Shirt Company, it's Oklahoma Shirt Company. You can follow Chill, it's Chill Oklahoma. yeah, you can keep up with all we're doing there. please like DM me. I'm in it. my email address is Justin at Oklahoma Shirt Company. I'm free and available. don't call me, but you can text me or you can DM me or you can email me and I promise I will see it and I will get back to you. speaker-0: As a true millennial. speaker-1: Don't don't don't call me. Do not call me. speaker-0: Awesome. Thanks, Justin. I appreciate this so much. Yeah. speaker-1: See ya. speaker-0: Thanks for listening to Beyond the Print, part of the Makers and Methods podcast presented by Roland DGA. Find them on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, YouTube, and Twitter. For more on Roland DGA products, visit RolandDGA.com.