Latest / The Steep Stuff Podcast / Cade Michael | From West Texas to Sub Ultra Standout

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Cade Michael | From West Texas to Sub Ultra Standout · The Steep Stuff Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up guys?
• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, james Lauriello, and today we're going to dive right into a really fun episode, one I've been really excited for and something I've been trying to bring you guys for a long time.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: None other than Kate Michael is on the podcast Super exciting.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: The sub-ultra trail team standout joins us on the pod.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: We chatted all about his 2024 breakout season, with top 10 finishes at the Golden Trail World Series races such as the Headlands 27K, as well as the National Series race, the Broken Arrow 23K.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Cade had such a breakout season really exciting to follow along.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: He also took a top 15 result at the Mammoth Trail Fest as well.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Cade is on a heater for a freshman season.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Not bad at all.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: That is a name you guys are going to be hearing a ton of in the future.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Um, to someone I am so excited for and not only is he an amazing athlete, but he's also a really good human, someone that is extremely intelligent, knows his stuff and, um, yeah, I'm just really excited to see where he goes in the sport.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: It was super fun to sit down and get to learn more about him, his background and what he wants to do with the sport, so really excited to help bring you guys the future of our great sport of sub ultra and trail running.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: So, without further ado, I hope you guys enjoy this one.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: None other than Cade Michael.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: It's time.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: We are live, kate and Michael.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast, my friend.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Thank you, sir, dude.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: We've been trying to do this for a while man, yeah, since GoPro maybe Since before that probably it's funny Andy had reached out to me and was like you need to have Kate Michael on.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: I was like, absolutely so.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: I'm glad we were able to do this.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, glad it's no more plain phone tag one direction or another, Seriously dude.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Well, this will this will be the first of many, hopefully, especially if you're 26 years old and you're young career, so hopefully this will be just the beginning of uh.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, you set the world on fire this year.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: I was really impressed, and I think a lot of your peers were so thanks yeah man.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: So all right, who's?
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Kate Michael.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Who's Kate Michael um?
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: kate michael is just a texas kid yeah uh, who uh really loves to run the outside, um, as much as possible.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: That's that.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: That's really it.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: That's what I love doing.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: I love, uh, moving my feet, you know, um, yeah, it's weird, it's funny getting into this space because it seems like a lot of people are like mountain athletes and, uh, or multi-sport athletes or whatever the case may be, and I sort of just like identify as a runner, like that's just what I love to do and like it just so happens that going up and down mountains is the best way to do that for me currently.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: But, yeah, just a runner from Texas that uh moved to the thin air.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: What inspired the trails?
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: You know, kind of just like always been gravitating towards that, like in high school.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: I'm from not a cool part of Texas like West Texas where we have football, oil and George W Bush.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Are you like one of those Permian kids, like I love Friday Night Lights, sure.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: So Permian High School is like 10 minutes from my childhood house, really.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I went to Midland High School.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: They're like our rivals.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: So that's in the movie.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: Friday Night Lights.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: That's us Not a lot to do out there.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: Oh my.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: God.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: But you know, the nice thing about it is you're in a part of Texas that's like really close to New Mexico or really close to Guadalupe Mountains National Park or Big Bend, and so just spent like the second I got my driver's license.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I think like the the weekend after I got my driver's license, uh, my friends and I went backpacking in Guadalupe national park and then we just like kept going every weekend and, um, you know, I was running cross country and track at the time and then we just like set up our backpacks and then just go like run up to the highest peak in Texas, which you know, I've been there Guadalupe is dope.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's great, it's amazing.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: Hot, yeah, and kind of got inspired by some friends that are still running these days, like Blaine Benitez, who's from out in West Texas too, doing things like that.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: And yeah, just was gravitated towards that and have spent like summers and winters, my entire life, in Taos, new Mexico, and it's like hard not to go run trails there.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, and eventually that led to western and, uh, the western pipeline seems like a pretty immediate one, so you guys are every one of you are on my podcast, like I feel like it's literally kieran whitfield, cam smith, like I've had so many western kids on, it's not even funny so oh yeah, it's like showing up to um.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: Like the first trail race I did was desert rats okay this year and uh so basically a college reunion.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean like the first trail race.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: I did was desert rats this year and uh, so basically a college reunion.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean like the top.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: I think six of the top 10 were Western, like uh, yeah, I mean the guys you just mentioned, like there's Taylor stack, there's Josh Eberle, there's Jesh.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: Like we all went to Western, whether it was the NCAA team or the trail team, but it's just, uh, yeah, gunnison.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: For whatever reason seems to.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: And you're all really good.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: It's not like anybody's not a world beater.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: In a lot of ways, you guys are all super dominant at what you do.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: It's crazy.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Stick a bunch of like-minded people at 8,000 feet with a trailster run on.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: Killer's row, dude yeah yeah, I mean look what happened to Joe in two.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, came out of Texas and started running up stuff and got really good too.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: So I mean he's always been a super talent.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: But he.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: so it's funny, nick Cusa told me the story.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: I didn't realize that.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: I guess he must've listened, like maybe it was on free trail or something like that.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: But he had said that you and Joe Quinn is his name, is how you pronounce it.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and he said to you guys were close, so that's, it's interesting.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it's interesting.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, joan was like my best friend Before I went to Western.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: I went to Texas State, Okay, and then I transferred during COVID like everybody else did.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: But Joan was a couple years above me and graduated and didn't have any like immediate plans and he's from Waco, but was just my best bud and I was like dude, you need to come out to Western, like, move out here.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: And I didn't expect him to say yes and he messaged me back and was like I'm doing it, I'm coming out.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: So we split a room for a couple of years in Gunnison and then lived together in CB and he's still up there baking bread and crushing Cirque series.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, he turned a lot of heads at A-Basin this year.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: I mean he beat Joe, which kind of blew my mind because I don't know too many people that have ever beaten joe's just kind of wild.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: So yeah, he got you know, but yeah, he turned a lot of heads and competed at a very high level, so that was, that was crazy I mean dylan.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: Dylan got on the joan train this year, so I know quite a lot of people.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's hilarious.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he went to a base and we've been telling him to race for like a long time and he just wouldn't race, but like he was taking kom's from jo Joe on like two minute, on one minute off Fartlix and Crested Butte, holy shit.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: And had this like vendetta.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: I think against Joe.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: I just had Joe on the podcast on Monday Perfect.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: We're like.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: I'm sure Joe didn't even know who he was.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: But like, Joe and I only run maybe two trail races and Joe had beat him in.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: But one was like um, what's the park in colorado springs called?
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: Um, which one?
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: Oh man, it's over by uccs campus um pulpit, your pulpit yeah, yeah kind of over there.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: It could be in the garden.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: I was in an ascent or like what is it?
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: No, it's just like this little like eight mile trailers anyway.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: Uh, I can't remember oh, are you talking?
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, was it race?
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, was it.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: So he's beat Joe twice.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no Joe beat him and I was like and it was like this little you know 10 people in the race type thing.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: But Joe has this like killer's mentality where he was just like, oh, I got to get that guy, I got to get that guy.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: So he showed up to a base and he signed up the night before four and he got a scout, like 4 am and he like called me after.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: He's like we did it, man, we did it.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: And I was like what?
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: And he's like I beat joe, like I got him, but some other guy beat me I don't know who he is and I was like patrick, patrick, literally the best in the world.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: yeah he's a funny guy.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: That's hilarious, yeah, dude.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about you.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: Man, you've been on a tear this year and it's been like extremely impressive.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Like, if you don't walk away with a pro contract by the end of the year, like I'm, I'm going to be disappointed.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Like, not gonna lie, like what you've done, um, you remind me very much.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Obviously, stylistically you guys are different, but just like your come up in the sport Like you remind me a lot of like Christian Allen um, you know like it's that second year, maybe the sophomore class, if you will, the trail team, um.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit about that, how you got on the trail team, how you got connected with Andy and just kind of how your career evolved from there, and then we'll talk about your racing season.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: Um.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: So I finished up school and uh was planning on running again in 23 for a COVID year and uh doing my MBA at Western and just some weird bureaucratic stuff and I didn't get eligibility back, that I had sort of been told that I was.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: So life got thrown for kind of a three 60 there and uh wasn't running in college anymore and didn't really know what I was going to do.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: And I had been training and I got told this like in August, right before cross season, and I was pretty bummed because I had spent the whole summer training pretty hard and thinking that this was going to like sort of be my year.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: Um, and I was frustrated and uh kind of bitter towards running at the time and needed to sort of take that fitness somewhere else.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: So I did the whole triathlon and then cycling thing for a while or whatever, um, in that like interim year.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: It was a yeah, kind of a strange year and uh, so I didn't run for um, I guess I didn't.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: I didn't specifically run.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: I was doing triathlon for like six months and then I didn't run at all for for 12 months before this year.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: So, um, my old roommate, uh, when I was living in superior Boulder, adjacent, um, it's true, alex McCarskey, who ran for Cornell.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: He was, uh, he was wanting to get back into running and like was uh pretty close to the sub four barrier back in college and wanted to get back to that.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: So I started running with him in what was like going to be my cycling off season or whatever, and uh just like sort of fell entirely back in love with it.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: And Alex had applied to the trail team like elite program, and sent me the application and was like hey, do you got to do this, like you love running and you love running on trails?
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: And I didn't, uh, yeah, I didn't uh pay much mind to it.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: And then I was in a cycling race and it was like the third one in a row that I flatted out and I was just like pretty upset, slashed a side wall, was sitting in the back of the like follow van getting a ride back to home base and just like pulled out my phone and just like submitted the application.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: Um, and so I guess this is like January, maybe, december maybe, and um, and then my partner, ashley, uh asked her what, what she thought about it, cause you know, if you're on, if you're on part of that program.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: It's, um, it's a commitment, right, like that.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: That's what you're going to do then.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: And uh, and Ashley immediately responded and said you should do this.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: You love running, and it was the first time in 18 months that someone had told me to do something because I loved it and not because I was good at it or it would be a logical next step.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: Um, so that really struck a chord with me.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Um, and then it was sort of like whether you uh, get accepted into this program and get support or not, like, is this what you want to do?
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: yeah, absolutely um, so, so that made the decision easy.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: And then, yeah, I didn't expect much of it because of the caliber of people that get selected for the trail team elite.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Um, it's kind of daunting when you have people like anna and, um, you know, mika slim lauren, like mika's, another one world.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: World beaters, killers uh sam hender, like you know you name them.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: And then when I got the call for the interview with with andy and carly, I was thought it might be like a pity interview because I'd run with run with them a couple times.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: Then, um, but yeah, I was selected for the team was super grateful and uh, yeah, I got got plugged into that.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: So that was sort of the and so started like actually running again in january and first race was desert rats and it had been exactly two calendar years since I had raced.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, wow.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Now Andy's really taken like.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: I feel like there's like a very strong mentor, mentee role between the both of you and I know one of you somebody's posted about it on Instagram, I think it might've been Andy Uh, what does that like been like, like working with one?
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, andy hands down like he's a first ballot hall of famer, one of the greatest ever.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Do it.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: You know like what is that like?
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's that that the photo you're talking about was funny.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: It was, uh, we like finished a run, um with his mentor, which is this guy named Jeffrey, who's like, uh, I don't know.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: I want to say he ran like two 11 back, like back when two 11 was good, you know, receiver shoes, and Jeffrey's still out here, you know, like ripping five, 40 for 12 miles every day.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: He doesn't know how to go slow.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: Anyway, um, I went on a run with Jeffrey and Andy up at Batasso and, um, yeah, and I think Andy was pretty struck by like the, the generational thing that was occurring there, um, his mentor and then his mentee.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: I was like I don't know, grandfather, father, son situation going on.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: And then, like, immediately after we finished this I don't know, we probably ran 12 or 13 miles Andy was like let's go scramble a flat iron, and I had never done it before.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: So we went and did the second flat iron, like immediately after that, and I think that's where that photo and some of the sentiment, um, behind that came but it's been great.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, like I think I think on the first on the trail team elite, that's a boulder right um, or a boulder transplant anyway that makes sense, yeah, um from last year and this year and uh, so yeah, just the first one that's gotten to, you know really like train with andy and get mentorship besides, just, um, you know that, know he's, he's great at communication, giving advice and stuff like that.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: But like it was very apparent after breakneck that I was really bad at downhills.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: So Andy gave me like a six day downhill crash course where we just started flying down stuff and after that I'd like I find that technical downhill is, you know, somewhat a strength now.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: And uh, and then, like uh, a sunglasses brand reached out to him and wanted to do an, uh, an FKT.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: And uh, it was really selfless of Andy to be like, oh, I want to do this with you and include me in that.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: So we, we went for one of Andy's old FKTs on the Mesa trail here, um, which is obviously a pretty prominent one.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, it's just been, it's just been really special being included in all of that and getting to, uh, yeah, getting to watch him and get tugged along for a while and then hopefully tug him along a little bit too, yeah oh, dude, I love it.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: So it was very apparent to me.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: So you and I had talked just before go pro games and then all of a sudden, these pictures start showing up at this, the 5k where you and tyler mcandless destroyed each other, and I was like this kid's special dude, like this is this is like this is christian allen another, another year of like, where we've got, you know, just these killers on this team, um, and then it blossomed into broken arrow and you just had a really impressive season.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: Then you went to europe.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: So maybe we could talk about that journey and just like how, how you've grown over the summer, and just like what this whole season of trail races has really done for you, career wise and personal growth.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Wise, sure.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, man, it has been feels like an eternity ago.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Right, I feel like I was racing every weekend for a while.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, man, the GoPro 5k was so fun about that.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: It was just, uh, well, I wasn't going to do it because the 5k is not like the premier event to gopro, obviously.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: But then someone mentioned that you could get some free tarik shoes and I was like, oh yeah, like 5k, 5k won't hurt the engine for two days from now.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: And, uh, people had mentioned that, like in the past, they ran like really slow and no one really did it.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: And then I got on on the start line and noticed that Tyler was doing some strides like, and then, like, josh was in it.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: Uh, yeah, it just became very apparent very quickly that it was going to be a really hard effort.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: Um, it was just, it was just so fun Like, um, I think, a lot of times, um, you against yourself, and that was just racing, you know like, I think Tyler and I went back and forth six or seven times in that race on the uphills and the downhills, cause man, can that guy climb?
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah and uh, yeah.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: That just like lit a spark.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: Uh for for the, for the 20 K too.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Um, and, and racing somebody that has that kind of a pedigree, like on the roads and the trails, was, uh, was really encouraging and I think maybe that was that's a good segue into how the whole year went is like each race I felt like I got more and more confidence that I maybe belonged or at least could like compete and have fun, and these guys were peers and not people on pedestals, right, yeah, and that became more apparent from race to race and helped with, yeah, like it's hard.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: How do you not have imposter syndrome when you're you mentioned Broken Arrow, right when you're next to like Jim Wonsley?
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: and all these, Patrick and you know you're under the, whatever they the European arch or whatever they and they ring the bell and you know it's it's Eli, and it's it's the Kenyans, and it's it's slim and stuff.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: It's hard not to have imposter it's crazy right, these are the guys, right, Dude?
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: I'll never forget I was at the start line at Cirque Brighton and I look over my and I thought I was like, and I look over my shoulder and there's Patrick and Phil Oman and I like introduced myself to Patrick and obviously Patrick was gone in the blink of an eye.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: But, like dude, it was just like so wild to stand on the start line with these people.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: It was bananas, absolutely bananas.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: So it's cool, right?
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: It's weird.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean it's amazing, like that's trail running in particular is like pretty democratic in that way, right?
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Like in a lot of other sports, you get to uh, you get, you get to see the heroes, but you don't get to race the heroes.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: Right, that's right, and uh right, you know anyone can sign up for a Cirque series and um, throw it out 4 30 in the morning, Fucking, whooped everybody Exactly what was broken arrow like for you, Cause I knew you.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: What did you?
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: You raced the 23 K and the VK right.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the VK um felt like an 800.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: that lasted 31 minutes you know, or however long it took.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: It's a tough race, dude, yeah.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: I'm I.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: I decided pretty quickly a vk fan it was we.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Uh, you go up that first, um, tell her that's the same thing, slope or whatever.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and um, I don't know, we.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: I felt like I was completely maxed out.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: And then you hit the fire road and I was in maybe like 40th right and mika comes up next to me and was like it's a long race, man, like it's time to go, and I was just like I hope it's not a long race, like I'm done with this, and then m then Mika, just you know, goes all the way up to third and I kind of like kind of creep my way up but uh, yeah, the BK was tough and uh, not my favorite.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: But um, yeah, come to the 23 K.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: That was just, uh, it's just a blast Cause.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just squeezing it down and like, then you're running next to, like grant colligan, who was a guy that was really good in my conference in college, and then, like you're working, I'm working up to dan kurtz and uh, and then slim, and then like taylor's up there ripping it and it's just, um, yeah, it's just a bunch of guys that I like look up to, but also guys that are some of my best friends, and it's like how do you not have a smile on your face the whole time?
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Like if there's anything you'd rather be doing than running hard in the mountains with like the boys.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: That's really what it is Like it just becomes fun.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: You know, are you competitive?
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: You know, that's a good question, cause sometimes I think I'm like extremely competitive, and then sometimes I'm, I think I feel like I'm not.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, cause, um well, I feel like I'm not.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because, well, I feel like to compete at such a high level like you do.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: You got to be a killer, sure, yeah.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think that my point of reference for that is like well, I went to high school with Bryce Hopple, who's like world-class 800 runner, and he was like that where he was like he would try to cheat you in Monopoly type of thing you know, know, like anything to win and then in college, taylor was kind of the same.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: Um, like when we play like darts or poker.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: If taylor like lost a game of darts, he was, I don't know what he would do, but it's like he'd disappear for two days.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: He wasn't like upset with you about it, he was like upset with himself.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: It's like you, I don't know went home like practice darts for 48 hours or something and then came back and closed the door on you, put the nails in the coffin.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: So I don't know, I do feel like I'm competitive, but that doesn't seem to be what drives me to the greatest level of success in races.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: I have a better time when it's internal and I'm competing against guys that I don't necessarily want to like kill but like um, yeah, something that comes to mind is it, uh, at headlands, just like you know, being in a group with like bart and these guys that are like icons of the sport, but then also like mason, uh, kopey was right there, yeah and just like chatting with him.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: Like we can do this, dude, like we're in, we're in the top 10.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: He's one of my favorite people in the sport.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: I love Mason.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: So like, yeah, I wanted to beat Mason, but also like the longer he's there, the more that gives me confidence that maybe I'm not like stepping somewhere.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: I shouldn't but not Just fun with the guys, let's talk about your European tour.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Sure, I followed it, but I wasn't sure what you were racing.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Let's start to finish your Euro tour.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so the initial idea was Jonathan Wyatt, who does the World Cup stuff.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: I reached out to him and was just going to do the whole World Cup circuit, because that's what Remy Leroux had done the year prior.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: And uh, and worked out really well for him, um, and, and Christian had done the world cup previously too.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: So I went over and did the Austrian world cup and, um, yeah, that was sort of maybe the old, uh, yeah, maybe the only race of the season that I just had like a pretty bad time at, um, met some really cool people and had like a phenomenal trip.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: But just, yeah, something seemed to kind of up and, uh, I made the uncharacteristically, um, conservative decision to sort of cut some of those races, cause I was going to race like eight back to back to back weekends.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: And, um, my partner, ashley, um races, um professionally in the European peloton, like cycling, and so she was living in Girona.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, after that first race in Austria, I kind of just wanted to go like train, because I felt like I hadn't, since starting back to running early in the year, hadn't got a huge training block in.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: So I went, yeah, just went went to gerona and got hooked up with a really cool crew there, including, uh, christian meyer, who won tds the previous year, and uh, lucy bartholomew and company and just had like a great training stint there, um, and then tried to get into sierras and all, but obviously like you can't get into sierras and all like unless you're what was that like?
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: did you just like reach out and say, hey, can I get a bib?
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: yeah, pretty much, because I knew that a couple americans are dropping out like um andy, and there are a couple people that ended up not going and uh, and so I, I just like reached out to the race director trying to get the american bib that was already out there, and then, since it was a world cup, I was hoping jonathan why it could get me in, but like it's serious and all it's it's, it's the super bowl right so that didn't happen.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: Um, but did a couple more world cups in italy.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: Um, I was talking to davide at sportiva um last night about at the boulder schema event.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: Just about, like man, mountain culture in italy is something else, like I did the the giordamont world cup race, which is was quite an intro into what italian trail running is like.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: I think it's 30k with 3 000 meters of gain and it's just, it's three vks is what you do, just up, down, up down oh my god.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: But you connect like a dozen villages.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: They're like a thousand years old and are only accessible by trail and each one has like their different costumes and themes and stuff and it's the event of the year for them and so the like, the stoke around that is crazy.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: So, um, yeah, I don't know europe's wild because it's like less of my european tour this year or whatever seemed like.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: Maybe less of a party among the athletes, maybe just because I didn't know as many people as I did at the us races.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Um, but such a party of the community, like everybody, it's um, it's not just like some mass event like it at broken arrow where everybody's running or or mammoth trail fest, but the uh, um, the field sizes might be smaller, but like the community behind it is wild, it's um, they're fans of the sport everybody's there, cheer it's, I don't know.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: I feel like the it's like climbing on tour to france or something.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah there's tunnels of people ringing cowbells and dousing you with I don't know Prosecco or something.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: So great.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: What is that like?
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: Having a partner that also competes in a sport at a high level?
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, cool.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely she's like world-class climber on a bike.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Um, she actually retired like a month ago.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: Oh, wow Um sort of sort of uh went after it for a couple of years and decided that she, uh was really passionate about other things and had the poise I think that a lot of people might not have in professional sports to realize that she didn't love it, even if people told her that she should, because she was really good at it.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: Um, so now she's doing all kinds of other things.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: Like uh, she's got one of the biggest run clubs here in boulder now that she started and uh, it's so interesting seeing people that like compete at a high level, then go do different things and still operate at an extremely high level and become successful whatever they do, right, oh?
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: yeah, I mean when you ask about, when you ask about the competitive thing, like she is that you?
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: know she's just like an achiever, so she's, everything she does is at the highest possible level.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: But sorry, to answer your question and get back to it, um, it was cool.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: It was hard at times, you know as well, because a you're both always tired and B you're accommodating like race schedules and someone's always someplace and training schedules don't always align, especially when it's different sports like that.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: But it's really cool to see someone else like chase after their dreams and it was really cool watching her succeed in a sport because she was a runner in college and sort of the classic, like always injured, I think, like eight stress fractures in four years or something like that, and to just see her sort of get chopped down over and over again, um, when the hopes got up and then convert to a sport where she just like had immediate success and accelerated to the top level in the world, was pretty like inspiring.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: And uh, yeah, it's.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: It's like hard not to chase your dreams with reckless abandon when, like, the person you love most is doing that too.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: You know, hell, yeah, yeah.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Did?
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: What do you like, now that you've had a year to kind of figure this out and follow the sport and see what you like, see what you don't like, like, where do you want to take this thing?
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Uh yeah, that's a good question.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: Um, don't tell Andy Wacker this but like I, like running long, you know, oh really, oh shit, yeah, maybe the wrong podcast.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: No, no, that's I.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: I love the golden trail stuff too, and the world cups and the shorter things as well, but I, uh, the 50k and whistler was was a really good time and I like congrats on that stuff, yeah, by the way.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I appreciate it, yeah maybe I shouldn't say that I raced whistler too loud oh no, you're good, you're good, but uh, nobody cares, it's fine I don't know, like, um, especially as this, um, the season sort of comes to a close and it's like contracts time and everybody's talking about and everybody's signing or whatever.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: And everybody's talking about it and everybody's signing or whatever.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: I think that at least for me, because it's been a little bit rough going in that sense, there's like a come to terms with it, where you have to decide what you want to do for you, and I think that's the case is like regardless of external support or not, like I'm doing exactly what I want to be doing, so I'm gonna keep doing it.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: In terms of where this goes, I don't know if that's golden trail series stuff, um, which I'm looking forward to next year getting to be a part of the series and race all of them, um, or if eventually that means like I don't know, western states or something.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: But uh, yeah, I just, I really, I just really love running, yeah, and uh, I just want to do that as long as possible well, if you got the talent dude to compete at the golden trail series races which I don't know a lot of people that can do that like that's pretty impressive.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: So I'm glad that you're seriously considering doing that again next year and going out there and doing all that to also pursue a world spot ah, yeah, I think, um man, that's just like the coolest honors putting on the stars and so cool like you know, especially like coming from a track and cross-country background and like one of my high school best friends, like representing the usa in the olympics and stuff like that.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: it's just like that's that's such an, such an aspiration.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: So absolutely that's like top of mind for next year.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: There's maybe like I don't want to race as much next year and I want to be a little bit more focused with what I do.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: Um.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: I think that this year consisted of a lot of just kind of going whether that's training or racing just like kind of going about it, um, like shotgun approach and just having a good time.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Um, like training was never super focused.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: There was never like huge things on the board in terms of goals for the year.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Um, I just really wanted to enjoy it this year.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: But I think, moving forward that becoming a little bit more professional in that sense or a little bit more focused with um there's a lot of room to improve there and there's like big steps to be made.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: Um, and yeah, one of the goals that I wrote down for next year is like make a world's team I don't know which one, that is because have you been thinking about, like maybe, because I don't know.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: I just think about this, like as an athlete, I'm like what's the I wouldn't say easiest path, but what path would suit you, because you're going to have to go through the gauntlet?
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: either way Right easy on any regard.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: But like, like, I think sunopi up down suit you super well and the orb broken arrow changed their course, though I don't know if you noticed that.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Like it's not, it's not a vk anymore, it's an ascent.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: So it's like you'll actually you know this course very well.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: So you're going up to whatever the name of that peak is, that you wash your shoe washing or whatever, and then you actually have a descent to the finish line, which is kind of wild, interesting, very bizarre, and I think it's like 7 or 8K or something like that.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: So it's a bit longer next year.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: So it's going to be very different, but yeah, I think there's.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know, did they do that to like mimic the course in Confer Inc?
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: I don't think so yeah.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I'm going to be.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: I actually just had two days ago and we talked about this and went pretty in depth and and I had joe on on monday and we were both looking at this course, like scratching our heads, like this doesn't really mimic anything and it's kind of confusing.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: So I don't know if they did that from like maybe a I wouldn't say safety, but like from the perspective that you're gonna have to have so many people up there.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be close to a gondola to get people down, yeah, so that's the only thing I can think of I have no idea but it is a little bizarre that it ends on a descent, which is very strange.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: So yeah, but soon.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: And p looks good, they both, I don't know, plus the 46k for the longer course looks.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Oh, you're giving me a smile is.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: That is that dude, that's a gauntlet too.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: You're gonna have michelino sinceri back there.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Good luck with david sinclair.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, fucking animal.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Um.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just talked to david sinclair today.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: We're trying to get him on the podcast and like he's going I don't know if this is officially, but he's going to jfk to go race eli, so that'll be fun as a match-up.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, that could be a precursor of what could happen at a broken era.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: So it's gonna be just killers row jack kensel races too, yeah you think it's gonna happen?
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know jack yeah I mean I didn't.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: I didn't even know who who was.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: I apologize, but like at, jir de mont.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: Okay, and that was like, I think, his first, like no, his first race after all, like his fkt is and whatnot, it's just like he just crushed it, he's just uh, I know he right, what was the one he won or came second in?
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: what was that was some like crazy, crazy yeah it was right after girdermont, but he did at girdermont like um, a bunch, it was a world cup race, so a bunch of the run together.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: Guys came yeah, not named patrick and philimon, but, like you know, equally as good and uh and jack just like went with him really yeah, no, so jack's got a huge engine, then he's a monster oh yeah, it was.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: It was super impressive.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, I don't know, um, but yeah, brook and arrow should be.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: It's a weird one, though, because not only do you have the 46 and the vk being qualifiers, but there's like rumblings that maybe the 23k is a world series race next year oh, dude, really.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: Um, which would be awesome because it should be right.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: Very well, should be because, with worlds being late, they can't do like the headlands mammoth double, so it might be.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: I've heard that it might be earlier.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Um, and broken arrow is like.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: Obviously a great established like brendan does an unbelievable absolutely job with that event so well.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: The only reason there's lots of choices that weekend then, with a lot at stake there is a lot of choices and a lot is there.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: and well, the only reason it hasn't been to my knowledge and just knowing race directors in the space, the only reason it hasn't been to my knowledge and just knowing race directors in the space, the only reason it hasn't been a World Series race is just because of where it sits on the calendar, and had it been similar weekends to like Mammoth or Pikes, it would have already been a Golden Trail Series race easily.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sure.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: It's a bummer, but it would be very sick to see it next year be that big, it's a cool course to be Well.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: First of all, you never know what the conditions are going to be like.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: So I've heard.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: I've only done it once but, I, had like elite conditions but compared to previous years.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: But do two years ago it was terrible the glissade parade, glissade parade and then wind Like they like did it like two loops for the wind it was.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: It was horrendous yeah, but man, what a dynamic course to have like a golden trail race on, because steep stuff, fast stuff, some techy stuff like yeah yeah, it'd be great.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: What else are you thinking about for 2025?
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: well, I got the occ qualifier um, so I would love to do that yeah, um it just like I remember I think it was like, uh, there was like the icepocalypse in Texas way back in the day and I was when I was there in college, and so over break I was running on the treadmill at my parents' house and pulled up like a Billy Yang video and this is like my Genesis in trail running, my introduction to it, and there was a movie that he made with like David Laney and Zach Miller and stuff on Chamonix, and ever since then it's just been like wow, that's a cool place to run, you know.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I just really enjoyed Whistler was like relatively enjoyed that sort of pace and cadence of racing and figuring out the puzzle of the longer stuff a little bit, um, while still, like you know, 50 Ks you can, you can still run pretty hard, so, uh, yeah, so.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: So, occ for sure, um would love to do that.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Uh, golden trail world series um was, uh, yeah, fortunate enough to get the top 30 spot for next year and get on the circuit, so I'd love to do that.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: And then, yeah, worlds is pulling on the stars and stripes is a dream for sure.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you picked up on this, but I was a little annoyed at the Golden Trail World Series thing.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: When they put the tap up there they called you Michael Cade, not Cade Michael.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you caught that.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, actually, just this year, I think I think one of my parents they're.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: They're both retired, so probably spend a lot of time like looking on the internet at stuff about me, I would guess, or trying to find stuff about me, thinking I'm a bigger deal than I am.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: Discovered that I had two separate ITRA.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: And did I say that right?
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: Is it ITRA?
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: ITRA and UTMB index profiles, one for Michael Cade and one for Cade Michael, and my results like weren't compiled and so I reached out to both of them to get that.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: But I yeah, it's been my whole life Two first names, man, when I'm at coffee shops I just say michael because it's easier.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, so 2025 looks pretty sweet.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: There's a lot going on there, a lot to do.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: Um, yeah, what are you gonna do like any type of build for like marathon or anything like that in the off season?
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: yeah, it's a good question.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: I've um, so I have an interesting relationship with my coach it's me and uh, yeah, kind of always trying to like, like I said, this year there wasn't like a big plan, yeah, and so this upcoming year I want something with more structure, whether that's with someone else, um, writing training for me or myself.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: And after Moab, it became really apparent that I feel like I lost a little bit of what could have been my strength, coming from a track background, of having speed, especially when you line up next to like Liam, andy and slim and uh, and like Mason's in great marathon shape right now.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: Mason's a monster and uh.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I think that maybe that's something that's missing.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: And like I've never run on the roads post-collegiately, so like what kind of a post-collegiate runner am I right If I don't run?
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: at least a half marathon or something.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, maybe a build up to a half or something, because, for whatever reason, I would rather run 100K on trails than a marathon right now, I think, on the roads.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: But half marathon sounds interesting.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: It does sound dope.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I might build up for that, with not like a huge, huge emphasis on it, but, yeah, try to get a little bit of speed back for sure.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: Sorry about that, Cade.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: We're back on.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: We were back in a new and improved room with better sunlight.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: For those of you who don't know, we For those of you who don't know, we're recording this in Boulder, Colorado.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Well, we were in the Boulder Creek room.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: Now we're in the Arapahoe room.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: We got kicked out of our room so we upgraded, we did upgrade, we're out of studio and we're on the move today.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Back to what we were talking about, dude.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: So one of the things we were chatting about on our little walk up up the stairs was cross training.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: Do you do cross training?
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: you cross train much no, no, cycling or anything like that.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: No, um, yeah, I didn't in college and I don't really now.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: I uh, I'm very fortunate to be pretty structurally sound and never had a running related injury.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: Knock on wood that's amazing.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: So, um, yeah, anytime I kind of think about it, I'd just rather go running, so just end up running a lot of miles every week.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Um, do you lift?
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: You spend much time in the gym yeah, uh, no, so again.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: No, I'm gosh, I'm the worst.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: I've particularly been the worst the past year um I was on my garrett corcoran training and just like going out, going out for uh, going out for long runs all the time.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: That's a wild boy right there, yeah, man the parents the best, um, but, uh, yeah, that's something that I I have lifted more times in the past two weeks than I have in the past two years.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: For sure, um got a gym membership moving up in the world and, um, that that's one of those things that I think.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: I think I left a lot of um a lot on the table this year in terms of room to improve, whether that's uh, training or lifting, or or just being more focused with with what I'm, what I'm going, and periodize what I'm doing, where I'm going and, um, periodizing that.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: So, no cross training.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: Um, I rode my bike for the past week cause I took a week off, which was something that I was too ignorant to do in college.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: Um, so I rode my bike for a week while Boulder was nice.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: Um, back to running now.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I've been been lifting cause for sure saw benefits of that in college in terms of just biomechanics more than anything.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, it blew my mind.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: I was cam smith recently and he he's in the gym like five days a week.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: He's a monster, oh yeah, like.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: Have you seen the instagram videos where he jumps up the stairs?
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: yes, and like dude, I can't, I don't, I don't know anybody that can move like that.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: I was like blown away.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: Somebody should show that to patrick on the start line, just to put the fear of god dude explosive I that that's the thing, the power.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Like I.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: It's funny because I don't know.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: This is actually a good thing to joke about, like there's you ever notice like the, the whole, um, hybrid athletes like a big thing in the sport?
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: now you see people talk about this shit all the time I'm going back to austin for thanksgiving and there will be no shortage of hybrid athletes running around town lake when I'm back.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're everywhere, yeah well, dude, if you're like pound for pound, if you're like to take cam smith versus any hybrid athlete, like cam smith would demolish them like he is legitimately one of the strong dude and obviously fitness plays a huge role into it.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: But, like before we had our conversation, like he ran like a sub 18 minute on the incline, like he's a freak of nature for like a normal, like what he claims he claims he's a normal kid from like Rockford Illinois.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: I'm like, dude, you're not very normal, like you're a freak.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean not not to steal one from Eli Hemming here, but he's a he's an aerobic monster, yeah.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, eli's my coach, so that and the nicest guy in trail, dude him and Tabor are like such good people Like some of the nicest humans ever Soft-spoken, kind, good people.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: But, dude, I can't wait to watch Eli and David Sinclair take each other to the woodshed at JFK next week.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: It's going to be pretty cool, is it next?
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: week.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: I think it's next week.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: Johnny was telling me a little bit about this on our run yesterday.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: That's the race where people like swap into road shoes halfway.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: That's right yeah, you could do very well at that race because it's only I mean, if you're at the front of the race, like you would probably be, your, I don't know.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: It's like a five hour race, six hour race for 50 miles, like it's fast, like you're running sub six minute pace.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: Pretty much the entire I think aiden or hayden I want to say was either low six minute pace, high fives for the entire.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's, it's a huge effort.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: Um, yeah, I could.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: I could see somebody like you doing, doing that, like cause you have that, you like that's.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: That's a great crossover for someone like you.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: That.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: That's the new hybrid athlete.
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: There you go, jfk.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: The JFK 50.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly, yeah, it's crazy Cause, like now I'm seeing Eli like do like longer stuff, and I'm like, oh man, it's just a matter of time before he just goes and does like, demolishes people at CCC, and then eventually just goes on and like goes Wamsley style UTMB, and that's the trajectory.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: It's very possible.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: Whatever he wants to do.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: It's hard for me to speak to.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: I haven't had it on the pod yet.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: That's happening soon.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about you, dude.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: Let's get back to this.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: So we were talking about shoes as well.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Like what do you like to train in?
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: Like, what have you been training in these days?
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of all over the place, like place.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: Like andy hooked me up with some solomons that I like running the sportiva prodigios.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: For training, I've raced most of the year in the adidas speed ultra just um I don't know.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: In college I just um kind of got soft and I just I like stack height and uh, in rockers and plates and all that jazz.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: I wish I didn't.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: But but, um, um, yeah, so so been been racing and training and those kinds of things, but I tend to like max cushion shoes and uh, and yeah, I uh Nike's and Hoka's and Adidas's are always just familiar, given my, my background and um, with running on the roads and stuff.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: So, um, yeah, not, it's weird because like not picky but pretty picky, yeah, yeah, I feel it, I feel it.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny, dude.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: If I didn't have to like run in sportivas like I don't know what other shoe I would use now it's like kind of weird, like I just I was just over, davide, as I was telling you this before and he showed me obviously we have the prodigio pro coming out, which I'm sure you've seen already, but like he showed me the next iteration of that, which is like a trainer.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: I probably shouldn't even say this on the podcast, but I don't even know what it's called.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: But I'm like, oh, dude, and I've been trying them on, I'm like yo, this, like the rocker is the technology is just getting out of hand.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: It's so crazy.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Like what trail shoe technology?
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: Now?
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: And the reason I say this because you've been running in the adidas agravic speeds the old, I think it's agravic speed ultra, is that what it's called?
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: or something like that, yeah, the big ones.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: Do you have what?
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: is that like, because I've never tried them on is like stack height, like like how do you have stability in those things?
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: they're like pretty wide under the forefoot is it.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: So I mean, I risked, like, um, the golden trail final was pretty gnarly and pretty technical and I didn't feel like they were a bad shoe for that.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: Um, the like, the lug depth is pretty shallow but they're pretty stable up front, the heels kind of narrow and it's just, it's strange when you put them on because they're so rockered.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, um, yeah, I don't know.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: But you know, clearly a company like that is putting plenty into r and d in terms of what athletes say like out on the trails.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: So yeah, so yeah, it feels normal.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: What I was getting at is you know your shit about shoes, which you just clearly demonstrated.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: So, um, are you like a shoe geek at all, or?
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: man I w.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: I wish I wasn't I was just really impressed, Like yeah, you just kind of blew me away.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I um, I think I just got like pretty picky in college, um with uh, and just got pretty interested in you know I like I am the generation where, when I entered college, super shoes were not a thing.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: Like the super spikes were not a thing, carbon plates were not a thing, people were still running in like very minimal shoes and like Kipchoge was wearing streak LTs in the marathon.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: When I went into college and when I left college, two hours had been broken on the marathon right.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Like it was a huge leap over the course of three or four years and I was at a school that was an Adidas school and they were like slightly behind Nike initially and so there were like clear disadvantages in the early stages of that.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: That stuff just like always interested me because I was both before and after the rapid progression that happened after Kipchoge and Monza.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: Um, and now that's happening on the trails right, Like everybody's coming out with a super shoe now.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: It's great.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: It's an arms race dude.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: It's funny to hear you talk about Western and their Adidas shoes, Like you're not the only person.
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, that was Texas state oh.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: Texas state is person.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: Oh, that was texas state.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: Adidas is under armor and we could kind of wear whatever we wanted.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: But was it adidas though?
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: Because I think it was.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: Brian whitfield was talking shit about whatever shoes you guys were wearing at at western.
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: Uh, well, brian was on the um like the mountain sports team that's why he's an adidas terex team there you go um, not to put words in whitfield's mouth.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: Josh hooks him up um, but we were, we always joked because, um, the mountain sports team had nicer equipment than the ncaa team really um because we were under armor which had, you know, like great gear and stuff like that, but you know we're all wearing nikes or hokas, um or whatever the case may be, um a6 when we're running.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: So yeah, that was always sort of the ongoing joke is the mountain sports team would be like on the other side of the field house stretching out for their run on the trails before we were doing a track workout and we're like oh yeah, they've, they got nicer stuff than we do dude, that's hilarious talk to me about.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: So one of the things I've been dying to ask you was your experience at headlands and then to uh, you ran mammoth too, right I did yeah, so you did headlands mammoth and then the Dude.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: That's a gauntlet right there, like tell me, which one did you like more?
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: What's that?
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: And Whistler between those oh you did Whistler Dude, so that's like you went back-to-back-to-back weeks then.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I went Headlands, mammoth, and then I flew from Mammoth to Whistler.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: Wow, the final yeah let's talk about that man.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: That's a block of races right there.
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: What did you?
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: uh, headlands was so fast, obviously yeah, that was maybe my favorite race of the year, um I don't I don't know what it was about that course, maybe it was sea level or whatever but just um, yeah, man, um, you lined up.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: I mean it was first World Series race, so it was the first race at that level, and I just, yeah, I was somewhere between like flow and bliss the whole time and running with Mason and Bart and Garrett and you know, just friends and role models alike, alike um, and it was just, it was super cool because it was kind of uh, misty and, and I think that headlands offered like a little bit of a different um setting than a lot of trail races in the mountains.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: Anyway, because, like you come around this one corner and you've got the marine layer inversion and you can see the golden gate bridge poking up that's crazy.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: It was just like man, this is cool um this is pretty aesthetic.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: uh, yeah, and and just had a great time at Headlands.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: I felt like that was the first race since college that I felt pretty dialed into routine and comfortable on the start line and just kind of ready to go.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: It was the first one I actually tapered into.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just had a great time.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: It was also the first time I had raced with Joen, who got to come out thanks to free trail and um, yeah, it was just, it was just a good time.
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I had.
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: I had a really, really good experience in California, both of those races and particularly headlands.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: Just maybe it's just cause I could breathe, I don't know.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: What did you think about that level?
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: Like, were you that, because that's a step up, even from like broken arrow and and pretty much everything, like I mean, I guess europe obviously is another level, but this is a golden trail series race.
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: This is the height, like this is tip of the spear, like what do you think about that?
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, um imposter syndrome, uh like you know um I for sure, like on on the shakeout in the course preview and you see some of these guys that you, you followed for a long time or whatever.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: Um, it's intimidating, but I maybe one of the reasons Headlands was um such a I don't know um revelatory race for me is there was, throughout the race, sort of this progression of belonging and pushing down the imposter syndrome and just um being, yeah, more present in in the race and um, it was, yeah, it was definitely scary um, and you're definitely a little more confident after a top 10 at that.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: Um oh yeah but then I, you know, I turned around to, you know I did some writing about this and just a lot of reflection in the week before Mammoth that I just had the best race of my career at Headlands and I should be as confident as I've ever been.
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: And then I showed up to Mammoth and I was like as scared as I've ever been, as insecure as I've ever been, for sure, and I don't know how much of that has to do with the level of competition, but yeah, for sure it was scary lining up against those guys, um and and feeling like you belong, racing them yeah, it's amazing and I feel like I mean, now that you're through the season and everything that you've done, you got to be so confident going into next year.
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: Dude, you know, as long as you knock on wood, like you know injury and everything like that, if you can avoid that, like you are easily one of the picks to go represent team usa, like I think there there's I mean, I'm tooting your horn because I'm a big fan, but like I don't know, I think you should have supreme confidence going, especially because of everything you just did, you know yeah, I appreciate that.
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: I'll see on on race day if I have that or not yeah, maybe it comes throughout the race too.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: Just uh, just running.
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just running it's so crazy, dude, because, like I've now, I've hung out with taylor stack.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: You know, kieran, nay, all these, like all you young killers, like it's just so crazy to see like what the next generation of our sport's gonna look like.
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: Chris, I haven't hung out with christian yet.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: We're gonna have him on the podcast soon, but like, just like so many of you young whippersnappers, just like coming, coming for it, man yeah, um well, I'm glad you say that, because my girlfriend makes me feel old.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: She's like you're 26, you're like 30 already oh, dude, I'm 33, I should have brought my, my fucking cane with me.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: Man, like things are falling apart, you know it doesn't get any easier.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: It's a good sport to be an old man, it's true, it's well, dude, look at max I.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, I just saw joe the other day.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: Joe's about to be.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: He'll be 41, I think by the time he runs for his next world qualifier.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: So, if there's anybody, it's just interesting to me how, wow, we're starting to see some longevity in the sport.
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: Maybe you can go at a high level for a long time.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: Max-stack shoes, man, yeah, that's right, that's right.
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: The fat boys, the fat shoes.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: What was about to go down?
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: Were you able to stuff that down and and like, switch, like flip, that mental switch throughout the race?
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: Or?
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's almost like that, that that exists outside of the racing or outside of the running, like there's this some dread that comes along with not being able to live up to, I don't know my own expectations or or outside expectations, whatever the case may be and then, once the gun goes off, that sort of all just dissipates because you're just everybody's, just a body with legs running up the same mountain and, um and again, it's like what else?
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: would you rather be doing Like what's the worst, what's the worst thing that happens?
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: You run slow to the top of a mountain like racing up, racing against guys up a mountain, like what a privilege, what a cool thing to do.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: Like, if there's anything else.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: There just shouldn't be any pressure with that, because that's like I said earlier.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: I guess that's exactly what I want to be doing.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: So it's cool to get to do that.
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: I used to get really bad pre-race anxiety and I feel like I turned a corner this season with racing more.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: I feel like racing yeah, Whereas in the groove right.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: If you just pick a handful of races and race that, I don't know if you're taking a month or three weeks in between a race, I feel like that's almost not as smart, because it's almost like you have to redo everything, whereas like if you don't back to back to back weeks or something like that, I don't know.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: I almost feel like that's your body's used to it, your brain is used to it.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: It's just almost becomes like muscle memory at that point.
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there might be something to that Cause.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, mammoth, I, um for sure kind of had that sentiment.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: Um, I think, maybe because of the good result at headlands, and it was like oh gosh, was that?
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: Was that a fluke?
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: Was it because of sea level?
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: Was it because it was a lightning fast course?
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: Um, um, like did I?
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: Happened and went great again, and then uh, and then, third week in a row, whistler.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: It's just, I felt like dialed, yeah, from from step one.
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that's interesting man.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: So, whistler, you spanked obviously.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: How did that feel like, especially because it's a much longer race?
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: yeah, I uh, I think I just maybe I like disrespected the distance a little bit all right, right, all right.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: And how are you with fueling?
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: Are you feeling?
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: Sorry I'm asking a million questions at once but like, how did you figure out fueling and for something like that, like just kind of wing it?
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I get precision fuel and hydration.
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: Has those like free consultations.
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: Okay, and so I was just like how many carbs should I take in out?
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: And they kind of like gave me a suggestion that's probably not at all dialed and I just went for it.
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: Um, it seems okay, though, like I can.
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: I can stomach a lot of carbs and be fine.
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: Um it whistler was kind of weird because, first of all, it's freezing.
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: Utmb implemented their like um cold weather policy, so we had to carry all kinds of gear.
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: I think my pack weighed like seven and a half pounds um, and you start at 2500 feet and you climb up to eight.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: K.
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: And so the change in altitude, um, like the first climb goes from 2,500 feet to eight K in the first seven miles of the race and, um, I think the change in altitude is weird for fueling.
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: It makes the stomach feel weird.
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: Um, it went really well.
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: I was just like completely on track.
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: It went really well.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: I was just like completely on track, taking in my garbs every 20 minutes until like the last 45 minutes.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: I just like wasn't feeling great.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: On the downhill I had twisted my ankle pretty bad and like threw everything up and couldn't stomach anything.
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: And then David Norris was at the race, who I know just sort of by lore of.
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: Mount Marathon, Monster dude and knowing that he must be like an unbelievable technical downhiller and the race finishes with a long technical downhill and I didn't have any splits or know where people were relative to me, um, so I just convinced he was like a minute and a half behind me, running me down the whole time.
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: So I pushed really hard the last couple of miles with nothing in my stomach and just I was cooked after after, uh, whistler see, that's interesting because I I revere norris is like one of the best mountain runners in the united states, if not the world.
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: Like he's on, like almost unbeatable at short courses, like he's so good.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: So that's, that's amazing yeah, it was.
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: It was cool to to race him there for sure yeah it was funny on the starting line because when they implemented that cold weather policy, I just come from, come from California and like I didn't have any of the gear because they make you carry a lot Like waterproof gloves, warm gloves, two hats, water capacity, waterproof pants, oh, my God.
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: Waterproof jacket, like warm jacket, all kinds of stuff, and I didn't want to go out and buy a bunch of stuff at a resort town once they implemented that the day before, so I just stuffed a bunch of things in my pack and it weighed like a ton and I had this huge, huge vest on and I don't ever run with a vest, yeah, yeah.
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: And then showed up on the start line and david's got this like really tiny two liter vest with all his on things dialed and I was like, oh man, brutal, I can't believe you, do you still pull it off?
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: That's amazing, so pretty.
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was fun race and my family was out there for that one.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: Oh, super cool.
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the only one they got to come out to this year.
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, it was a really good time.
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: So, now that we're winding down a little bit, we're almost at an hour I still want to get to the final, for the Golden Trail Series.
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: Dude what was that experience like?
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: A party, really like a party.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah on, really like after, uh, headlands of mammoth, I felt like I knew a lot of the people that weren't just the americans, um, that's what's cool, I think, about a circuit like that is, people are familiar with each other, um, and you know, both from a marketing perspective there's like a narrative to tell when people are familiar with each other in a series but also just, yeah, from a friendship thing.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: So it was, it was cool, just kind of um part of my friendship, but just like shooting the shit with everyone and like um, do you cuss?
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: I say fuck all the time messing around with like hello zine or whatever.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: Like, um, that's crazy.
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, he's, he's funny, super nice guy.
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: But, um, yeah, great american contingent out there.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: We got to go out for the whole week and I was rooming with liam and yeah, we were next to slim and garrett and, um, it was, and then it just rained the whole week.
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: Um, but man, it was.
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: It was really fun.
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: I I was definitely cooked from that three-week block prior.
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: I was like physically not super confident.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, it wasn't even like an imposter syndrome thing.
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: I was just like I could tell I was tired if I did a stride or something, but just had the best time all week.
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: Um, and a really cool and beautiful part of, uh, switzerland.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: I don't think a lot of people would go to, yeah, if the final wasn't there, since it's kind of tucked away on the italian border there, but it's, uh, roberto della renzi's hometown and he was pretty excited to have everybody there and oh wow, I didn't know that he's another one.
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: It was bart swan song too, so there's a lot of yeah.
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was.
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: It was really.
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: It was really cool.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: It was a good time you said Bart's song swan.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: What do you mean by?
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: that.
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: Well, he's done with sub ultra.
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't know that it was like his golden trail retirement party.
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: He just raced one of the UTMB 50 K somewhere as his official move up in distance his career, because it's been.
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, dude, he came onto the scene.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: What was it?
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: A couple years ago three years ago I think, was during covid when they did that.
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you're familiar with this, but they did like a stage race.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: I forget where it was and he's even spanked once.
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah liam, liam talks about that all the time yeah how crazy it was.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: They were racing like 20k five days back to back to back.
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: But yeah he's.
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: He is an incredibly nice guy too.
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I was really bummed.
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: I was in poland for the golden trail race.
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: That didn't happen over there and that was like his hometown race and it was finally everybody's going to come race in his country and it didn't happen.
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: So I was pretty bummed about that super bummer, yeah, that's crazy, so the final is great wow.
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: Well, dude, now that we're about an hour, I'm going to start asking some, some funny questions, some wild questions.
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: Uh, first of all I'm interested in is like what's your walkout song, dude?
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: What's your what's?
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: What's this one song like you're getting ready for?
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: How much do you weigh?
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: 140, 150 pounds, something like that.
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know something all right.
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: So let's say you're I don't know.
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: Let's say you're lightweight, so you're walking out.
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: You got a lightweight fight.
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: What?
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: are you listening to kate?
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: Um, this one goes out to joanon um, who put me on a tribe called quest back in the day, so probably like a tribe called quest song.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: Um, you know, do that, do that, do, do that, that, that just yeah, just some, like just some some old school hip hop, I guess, which is funny Cause that's not like my music genre.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: That wouldn't even crack my Spotify wrapped, but um, but that's, that's top of mind.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: For sure, that's gotta be the walkout song, dude.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: Um, when I post your thing for this, that's exactly what I'm using.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: Um, all right.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: Who inspires you?
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: Another shout out to Joan DeLeon, Honestly Um dude, I gotta get him on the podcast, yeah you do.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm not just shamelessly plugging him to get him on the podcast, but, um, yeah, he's like he's my peer and he's my best friend.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: Um, but he, yeah, he inspires me because he, he does.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: He used to call it kobe miles.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: Um, because I guess kobe bryant used to like run to the arena and back every morning, and so joan started like running to the field, house and back and not logging it on strava.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: He's, he's like those are my Kobe miles.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: My competition doesn't need to know about that.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: Oh man, but that's just kind of how he does it, like he does it for him for sure, like he's not racing, he's not going after FKTs, he doesn't have social media, he's just kind of or a lot of times, um, even though he's like such a competitive person, um and uh, but then on top of that he's he makes people feel special in a way that is rare.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: Um, he's one of the only people I've ever met that like, if you ever have him on, he's going to come in here, he's going to like dap you up.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: Like he's from East Wacoaco, you know, and then he's gonna ask you like, how are you man?
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: and if you just say like he's gonna look at you and like he wants to know how you are, um so he actually cares yeah and he cares deeply and he listens deeply and, um, yeah, just kindest, funniest, fastest dude, I know so, him old coaches, you know, wow, all kinds of all kinds of people, but joan came to mind for sure dude, that's a great picture I called quest is just like going in my head right now, after this podcast is over, I'm sending him a dm.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: We're, we're, maybe we'll have like a chat going because we gotta, we gotta get him on 100.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, do you think he and I know I know I don't want to have you speak for him, but do you think after having like race circ series, a basin, do you think that's like, and some of the like golden trail series races, do you think that's something he'd be more interested in doing?
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: Is racing more?
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: He's I dude.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: I've had a lot of requests to have him on the podcast.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: I hope so.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, well, he's a great personality too.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: Um, he's a clash of cultures man, but, um, yeah, for sure I think he's interested in that he's.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: It's always just like getting away from cb for him, because he loves, he loves his family and his uh, community there and his job and stuff.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: So he's done pikes?
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: no, I don't think they run together at all interesting um, yeah, we used to have like a little, a little squad up there, but uh, yeah, I think he just kind of does his own thing.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: Wow, dude, that's crazy all right.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: So we have some serious questions.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: We have asked some not so serious ones.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: I'm curious to get your take on the aliens on aliens yeah man.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, mathematically right, they gotta be here.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: But I just, maybe I'm alien, alien agnostic, I don't know, I don't think about it much.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, I got, uh, I've got, less extraterrestrial threats to deal with prior to alien existence?
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: What?
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: about Bigfoot?
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: I hope so, man.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: I hope that human civilization hasn't tapped into all of the wilderness yet and there's something out there that hasn't been discovered as big as Bigfoot.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's fair.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: I've had somebody tell me I've had Ace Ace Brown.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever raised him yeah, yeah tell me.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: I hope he believes in me wow, that's a good answer, dude.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: I thought that was the best one I've gotten so far like off the cuff, straight up off the cuff.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's an asset before that's great, that's like Ace man, that's.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: That's as good as it gets.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: Well, dude, thanks so much for coming on the pod.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: I appreciate it, man.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you for your time and and hopefully this is the first of many yeah, thanks so much, james.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: Uh gonna have to go for a run in spring sometime.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: Dude 100 come down.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: We'll get you properly on the incline.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: I've got some great trails, like we do cameron cone, if you've been on that yet there's.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: There's a lot to do.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: I'm a sucker for alliteration, so cameron cone sounds great oh dude so good yeah man, thank you, I really appreciate it.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: What'd you guys think I told you this was a fun episode?
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: Um, man, am I not joking by saying that kid, I think, is the future of our sport?
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: Like cage is just a, like I said, super intelligent human and just a great athlete, someone that kind of has the whole package, um, more or less, um, as an athlete and, I think is going to be just a really big figure in our sport, moving forward.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: Um, let's help them do that.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: Let's hop on Instagram.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: Let's give them a follow.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: Uh, type in Cade C Michael, that's C A, d, e, c, m, I, c, h, a, e, l.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: Uh is give them a follow.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: Uh, send them a DM, let you know, let them know what you thought about the episode.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: And, yeah, send him some words of encouragement, as he probably gets to start training for what's next for his 2025 season.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: So I know there's a lot of big things coming down the pipeline, so definitely send him some words of encouragement.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: Last but not least, if you're a brand and you're looking for athletes, yeah, reach out to this kid, definitely just a super big pickup, someone you definitely want to build a team around and, yeah, it would be cool to see him on one of the big brand teams next year.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: So, guys, I hope you have a great rest of your week.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: I really appreciate you listening to this episode.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: If you did enjoy it, please give us a five-star rating and review on Spotify, apple or YouTube.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: That would mean a lot to me so we can get this episode out to the world.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: Cause that's the plan Just cover this great sport of sub-altar trail and mountain running.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: Guys have some great runs this weekend and we've got some fun stuff coming down the pipeline for next week.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: Have a great rest of your week, thank you.