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Is Google killing itself with how it uses AI? · The Financial Exchange Show

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  Speaker 1: This is the Financial Exchange with Mike Armstrong and Fall Lane.
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  Speaker 2: More than welcome back to the Financial Exchange. It's Mike,
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  Speaker 2: you're tuning in, maybe for the first time. Here on
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  Speaker 2: the show, we cover business news, financial news, inflation. It's
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  Speaker 2: all on the table every day and it all affects
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  Speaker 2: your wallets, so appreciate you tuning in. We have ongoing
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: conversations between the US and China over in London right
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  Speaker 2: now as we speak. I have not seen any updates
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  Speaker 2: or announcements on that for the last real day and
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  Speaker 2: a half as these things kicked off yesterday, but if
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  Speaker 2: we do get anything, we'll be sure to pass along.
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  Speaker 2: I think personally, expectations are not terribly high for where
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  Speaker 2: things go. Best case, I'm hoping we get some magnets,
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  Speaker 2: but we will see where that goes. Tomorrow at eight
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  Speaker 2: CPI Consumer Price Index expectations are to be relatively muted,
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  Speaker 2: about a zero point two tenths of a percent increase
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  Speaker 2: on prices overall two point four percent year over year
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  Speaker 2: when we look at it, so relatively good news on
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  Speaker 2: inflation is what is anticipated. We'll be covering that as
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  Speaker 2: we open tomorrow on the Financial Exchange. But the first
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  Speaker 2: story I want to tackle is the criticism that's been
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  Speaker 2: making its way on Apple and specifically there seeming lack
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  Speaker 2: of artificial intelligence ambition. They just finished up the or
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  Speaker 2: is the conference ongoing the worldwide I think it's for
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  Speaker 2: a few days.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, but it kicked off yesterday.
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  Speaker 2: WWDC, which has nothing to do with wrestling, is ongoing,
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  Speaker 2: and there's a lot of anticipation, Hey, will Apple have
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  Speaker 2: any big announcement announcements when it comes to AI and
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  Speaker 2: native AI on phones which had been promised at the
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  Speaker 2: last Developers Conference and never really followed through on. And
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  Speaker 2: from what I understand, instead, what you got was some
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  Speaker 2: pretty exciting, you know, new hardware and new looks to
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  Speaker 2: phones and all sorts of other stuff, but nothing really
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  Speaker 2: substantial on artificial intelligence. And it raises the question is
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  Speaker 2: Apple genuinely falling behind because they are let's think through
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  Speaker 2: the mag seven. Are there any companies that you can
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  Speaker 2: argue are further behind on their at least public announcements
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  Speaker 2: when it comes to artificial intelligence than Apple? No, probably Apple,
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  Speaker 2: so let's run through them. And Video certainly not Microsoft, No, Google, no.
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  Speaker 2: Meta has been pretty public about their moves that they
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  Speaker 2: have made.
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  Speaker 4: Tesla Amazon with Anthropic, they've been Tesla.
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  Speaker 2: You know, I haven't seen anything, but you know, they
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  Speaker 2: have been already public about their investments that they're trying
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  Speaker 2: to make. And so I think Apple is arguably you know,
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  Speaker 2: the trailer in the clubhouse there when it comes to
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  Speaker 2: their AI investments. And the only question that matters to
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  Speaker 2: me is is this another Apple story where they are
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  Speaker 2: not the first of the party. They didn't invent the
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  Speaker 2: MP three player, they didn't invent the smartphone or the headphones,
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  Speaker 2: they didn't invent smart watches. What they did was they
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  Speaker 2: took existing ideas that were out there that others had
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  Speaker 2: already come up with, and made it theirs and executed
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  Speaker 2: far sexy. They made it popular, they made it easy
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  Speaker 2: to use, and have created multi billion dollar industries off
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  Speaker 2: of it. Whether it's even they're less successful products like
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  Speaker 2: Apple TV have produced good somewhat good results when it
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  Speaker 2: comes to all of this. And so the question that
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  Speaker 2: I have is is it that or is this BlackBerry
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  Speaker 2: twenty five years ago? I have my own theories, but
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  Speaker 2: is that when BlackBerry was really popular, like it was
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  Speaker 2: pretty great financial crisis, I think everyone and their mother
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  Speaker 2: probably around three four oh five was carrying a BlackBerry around,
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  Speaker 2: and early two thousands, everyone was under the assumption that, hey,
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  Speaker 2: this is what you know. I have my my BlackBerry number.
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  Speaker 2: I can text between BlackBerry numbers. It's its own universe,
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  Speaker 2: and it can never be disrupted, and we don't need
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  Speaker 2: to worry about, you know, creating a screen or you know,
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  Speaker 2: creating a smartphone because we are BlackBerry and we dominate
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  Speaker 2: the industry. Then the smartphone came out and pretty much
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  Speaker 2: wiped them out. And I don't believe that BlackBerry even
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  Speaker 2: exists as its own standalone company anymore.
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  Speaker 4: Uh, the phone is jettisoned entirely, but I think they
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  Speaker 4: still have a company that does cybersecurity or something like Believer.
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  Speaker 2: So barely exists would be the point. And I don't know.
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  Speaker 2: I tend to give Apple the benefit of the doubt
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  Speaker 2: here because for twenty years they have proven that they
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  Speaker 2: can be the last of the party and still make
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  Speaker 2: an amazing product that everybody wants to buy. But there
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  Speaker 2: is I guess I can understand where people are approaching
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  Speaker 2: it from the other perspective, which is, hey, Apple, are
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  Speaker 2: you getting tired?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah? I take that view a little bit. They have
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  Speaker 4: such a built up gravitas that it's hard to beat
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  Speaker 4: them up too much, but you do have a different
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  Speaker 4: visionary at the helm, Tim Cook has done a fantastic
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  Speaker 4: job since taking over, and I believe the mid twoenty
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  Speaker 4: tens when Steve Jobs got hit with his health issues
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  Speaker 4: and then subsequently pass he's been a very good steward
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  Speaker 4: of the company. But the company hasn't innovated like it
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  Speaker 4: did under Jobs. I don't think I can really come
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  Speaker 4: to any specific product that came out during that span
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  Speaker 4: over the last ten or fifteen years that was as
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  Speaker 4: successful as some of the predecessors of the iPad, the iPhone,
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  Speaker 4: et cetera. And you wonder if, to your point, Apple
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  Speaker 4: could be in a position that they could be late
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  Speaker 4: to the game, because face it, they have the users,
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  Speaker 4: so if they're able to get they have the ability
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  Speaker 4: that if there is a successful app or piece of
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  Speaker 4: software that can be translated into an app. They can
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  Speaker 4: put it on their app store and still monetize from that.
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  Speaker 4: It's probably not as substantially as the creator of that software,
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  Speaker 4: but they have a billion users that they can sort
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  Speaker 4: of deploy that technology too, and maybe they can iterate
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  Speaker 4: on it to be better.
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  Speaker 2: But the question that matters is could there be an
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  Speaker 2: AI piece of hardware that convinces unseats Tucker and Paul
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  Speaker 2: to leave the Apple It's not just unseat the iPhone
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  Speaker 2: because to do this you have to leave the Apple universe, right,
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  Speaker 2: and that's the store. That's the piece that Apple has
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  Speaker 2: that I think some fail to stress about all this
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  Speaker 2: is you suddenly want to do this, okay, see it later,
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  Speaker 2: to your headphones, your watch, all of these things that
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  Speaker 2: you have integrated into your lifestyle at this point. It's
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  Speaker 2: not so simple as just saying, oh, yeah, I'm gonna
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  Speaker 2: go with a Android phone because the AI is better,
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  Speaker 2: or I'm going to go with this new device that
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  Speaker 2: chat GPT is trying to create with who's the designer,
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  Speaker 2: Joni Wives that they're teaming up to create over there. Like,
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  Speaker 2: it's not so simple. It's not the same as BlackBerry
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  Speaker 2: was because there wasn't a universe that you embedded yourself
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  Speaker 2: into with BlackBerry in the same way that there is
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  Speaker 2: with Apple. There's such a deep moate there that it
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  Speaker 2: would truly need to be something next level legendary for
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  Speaker 2: somebody to make that move. There's nothing out there today
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  Speaker 2: on the Samsung or Google phones that you say, oh yeah,
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  Speaker 2: I'm willing to ditch Apple because the AI is so
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  Speaker 2: much better on these other products. And so I know
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  Speaker 2: there's a lot of criticism being tossed around Apple. I
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  Speaker 2: tend to think they're probably handling this the right way.
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  Speaker 2: Show me how it can make my users' lives better,
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  Speaker 2: and we will. We will jump in with both feet
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  Speaker 2: and invest a bunch of money. But I don't see
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  Speaker 2: it today. I have a Google phone. I see nothing
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  Speaker 2: in there that says, oh yeah, this is really a
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  Speaker 2: game changer. And you know, I get just as many
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  Speaker 2: spam calls. I have just as difficult time of writing
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  Speaker 2: an email on my phone, And I don't think there's
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  Speaker 2: anything that Google is doing with my Android phone that
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  Speaker 2: makes my life easier because of AI.
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  Speaker 4: To me, the search front is where and Google's start
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  Speaker 4: to make some changes. That's where I see certainly some
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  Speaker 4: breeding competition, but on the hardware side of things, there
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  Speaker 4: there obviously is nothing out there, and there's no argument
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  Speaker 4: to be made that you should switch away from your
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  Speaker 4: Apple devices just yet because of any features on any
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  Speaker 4: competitors' phones. But it's a mistake to just think that
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  Speaker 4: the incumbent can continue to dominate for decades on. I
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  Speaker 4: don't know, but we've seen it historically, whether it's BlackBerry
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  Speaker 4: pomp plots, you know, these things tend to evolve over time.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, Apple stock, by the way, down a good sixteen
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  Speaker 2: percent this year, so not being rewarded for their well,
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  Speaker 2: they've stuff going on.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, China and everything else. It's been a tough year.
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  Speaker 2: Let's take a quick break when we come back, a
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  Speaker 2: little bit trivia. Here is next on the Financial Exchange.
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  Speaker 2: Bloomberg reports that Mark Zuckerberg is personally handling the interview
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: and rollout of a new super intelligence AI team at Meta.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: This comes after some apparent frustration over the quality of
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: and response to Lama for the latest version of Meta's
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: large language model. He is sitting down with folks and
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: inviting them out to his homes in Lake Tahoe and
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: Palo Alto. And I was just talking to Paul about
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: this during the break. I don't know if anyone listening
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: has seen the previews for the HBO movie Mountainhead, which
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: aren't getting the best reviews, but oh it's not. Oh
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: it when you describe Mark Zuckerberg as personally interviewing him
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: in his in viewing people in his mansions at Lake
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: Tahoe and Palo Alto, and then go watch the previews
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: for this movie where four billionaires get together and have
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: a get together over a weekend while the world is
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: really melting down in front of them, riots and people
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: dying because of their technology products that they put together.
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  Speaker 2: You can't help but draw the comparisons between the two.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: And I recognize that I'm perhaps being unfair to Mark
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  Speaker 2: Zuckerberg on all this, but it really just drew my
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: attention directly to it. And I guess, good for HBO
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: for identifying the moment and putting together something that is
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: fitting for the time being. But what has Meta been
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: doing on AI and what are they hoping to achieve
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: with this super intelligence AI team? I guess because I
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: have to say, Meta has actually been very public about
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: the idea that they are already seeing the benefits are
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: artificial intelligence through their ad sales, through directing customers to
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: certain products, and already benefiting from it. And I this
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: type of story makes me question how much AI washing
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: has been going on over at Meta.
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: Well, there's a couple things to different parts out there.
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  Speaker 4: They've been benefiting it from for like a decade, but
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: just in a different way, shape or form, Like you know,
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  Speaker 4: the algorithms.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: How do we describe AI is when it comes back down.
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  Speaker 4: Exactly, you know the fact that you go on to
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  Speaker 4: your Facebook or your Instagram, they are feeding you material
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  Speaker 4: that's been generated by algrams, which are tangential. Yeah, forms
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  Speaker 4: of AI. The large language models and chat GPT in
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: that space they do lag behind and you can see searching.
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  Speaker 4: I believe on Facebook they've tried to incorporate their version
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: of AI into those type of searches and trying to
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: become the market leader in the space. They recognize the
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: opportunity that's in front of them, but they have done
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: little too unsee, I believe chat GPT is the market leader.
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: You could argue that's the one that's most commonly tied
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: to any sort of AI in large language models. And
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: this idea of getting to general intelligences that a AI
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: large language model would be smarter than or as smart
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: as a as a human and able to reason and
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: make inferences based on all sorts of information. That's the idea.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: We're pretty far away from that, from we understand we are.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: These AI models have trouble with some very basic math,
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: they absolutely do, so fortunately I think we're a ways
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: away from that. But Mark Zuckerberg apparently putting him himself
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: out there to recruit this new AI team, so we
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: will see.
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: He's always chasing, trying to chase the next thing, and
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: usually he's been successful at buying a company that does
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: it really well to fend off.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: Say about him, right, but you know, it hasn't had
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: a hit since Facebook. You don't.
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: You can knock that. I mean, it's one tremendous hit,
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: but the metaverse, you don't really hear a lot about
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: that recently.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: Speaking of giant tech companies and their experiences in AI
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: news site, the likes of New York Times and many
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: others rely heavily on Google to direct traffic to their
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: web pages. Right, So, if I want to do a
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: Google search today of tell me about the negotiations ongoing
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: between the US and China over in London right now,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: generally speaking at least two months ago, I would be
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: directed to a whole bunch of stories from the likes
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: of those news creators, those news outlets, and if I
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: want to learn about it, I would click through. Maybe
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: I'm hit with a paywall, Maybe I get a few
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: free articles. That has changed a little bit just over
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: the course of the last couple of months, Paul, and
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: I guess I'll test this out now to see if
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: it does work with something as current as this. But
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: tell me about negotiations between US and China in London,
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: and I'm going to continue an AI mode. In June
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, the United States and China I have
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: been holding trade negotiations in London, focusing on easing their
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: ongoing trade dispute. These discussions are a continuation of talks
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: that started in Geneva in May, where a temporary truce
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: was reached to de escalate the trade war. Key aspects
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: of the London talks includes the who is involved on
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: the delegation side of things, where it's happening, what the
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: focus areas are, what the progress has been, and what
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: the outlook is, and the background of all of this.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: All of this is generated by Google. It's about a
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: page worth of information that's generally useful if I'm trying
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: to get a summary without clicking a single news article.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, and I just did a similar one. What are
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: rare earth metals something we talked about in the first
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: segment of the show My Wife. I believe over the
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  Speaker 4: weekend some Google search same sort of deal. The bottom
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: line is you, myself, my wife are not clicking on
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: the link and it's becoming less and less relevant. Like
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: Wikipedia happens to be the first one that comes up
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: for rare earth element but I don't even need to
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: read that because the AI over you on top of
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: that summarizes the seventeen taic elements, et cetera, et cetera.
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  Speaker 4: And that's how Google has made its money, is paying
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: for receiving money for that positioning on the links. Now
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: you're just getting more of the summery and the answers,
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: but they're recognizing they have to cannibalize their own business
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: in a way to stay up against chat, GPT and
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  Speaker 4: others out there.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's no.
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: I was just going to say, it's not only that, Paul,
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: like in terms of the AI blurb, but you have
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: to scroll three swipes now, whereas in the past it
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: was just like bullment's right there and you don't have
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: to scroll far at all, Like, who, when's the last
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: time you've gone in multiple page searches on Google? It's
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: usually just like the first page and then that's it.
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: Right now, I.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: Will say that, you know, if I'm trying to learn
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: about something and report on it on a show like this,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: I'm not taking the AI summary. I am clicking through
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: the links. I am checking the sources and saying, hey,
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: today I actually summarize this stuff correctly or is this
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: absolute guard I'll.
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: Tell you what I don't even. I don't use it
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: for in depth research anymore. For a show prep, I
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: use chat GPT if I'm I'm looking for a real
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: deep in depth analysis because I don't want to go
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: through the links. I want to just have one consolidated
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: answer to go through.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: So this talks about how this is a real problem
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: for the news sites. It's a problem for Google too, Yeah, right,
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: Like be clear here, Google gets paid for directing that traffic.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: They are no longer doing so. And therefore, if you
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: are the Huffington Post, or if you're in New York
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: Times and you're seeing traffic decline forty percent here over year,
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: you got a chance. What you ain't paying right too
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: quick break Wall Street watches next.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Bringing the latest financial news straight to your radio. Every day.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: It's the Financial Exchange on the Financial Exchange Radio Network.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: Time now for Wall Street. Watch a complete look at
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: what's moving market so far today right here on the
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Financial Exchange Radio Network.
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: All markets are in wait and see mode on day
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: two if trade talks in London between the US and China.
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: Traders are also writing for an inflation reading du tomorrow morning.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: In the Consumer Price Index. Right now, markets are flat completely.
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: Dow is only off by eight points, SMP five hundred
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: is up by merely one points, and the Nasdaq is
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: off by only twenty seven points. RUSTED two thousand is
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: up by three quarters of a percent. Ten Your Treasure
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: reeled down by one basis point, now at four point
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: four to seven percent, and crude oil up over one
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: percent higher, trading just above sixty six dollars barrel. Apple
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: held its annual Developers Conference yesterday and seemingly underwhelmed investors
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: on its Apple Intelligence advancements. The bigger focus of the
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: Tech Giants event involved a software facelift, marking its first
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: significant redesign of its iOS software since twenty thirteen. Apple
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: shares are up by about one percent, Tesla rebounding by
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: three percent after the stock was downgraded by Baird yesterday.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: In addition to the ongoing feud between CEO Elon Musk
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: and President Trump, the New York Times are supporting that
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: Meta is forming a new artificial intelligence research lab and
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: bringing on Alexander Wang, the founder and CEO of startup
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: Scale Ai. Meta is also in advanced talks to invest
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: more than ten billion dollars in Scale ai that according
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: to Bloomberg, Meta shares are up by about a third
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: of one percent. Jam Smucker posted lower sales and swung
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: to a loss in the latest quarter. The food maker's
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: guidance also missed expectations, sending that stock down by thirteen percent,
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: and after today's closing bell, we'll see earnings from GameStop.
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: I'm Tucker Silvlan. That is Wall Street Watch. Our trivia
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: question we asked in the previous segment was which character
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: does Bill Bird play in Glengarry Glenn Ross on the
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: Broadway Show. That would be Dave Moss. Stephen from Yarmouth
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: Port is our winner today, taking home a Financial Exchange
• 22:04
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• 22:07
  Speaker 3: every day here on the Financial Exchange. See complete contest
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: rules at Financial exchine show dot com Paul.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: Six days ago, the President increased tariffs on imported steel
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: and aluminum to fifty percent from the previous twenty five
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: percent that already been announced or sorry, is it just steal?
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: I think it's just steel? Is the fifty percent duty?
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: And so a lot being written these days about food products,
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: whether it's super canned corn all anticipated to start jumping
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: up in prices, Hormale foods, Campbells, and del Monte Foods
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: have all basically said that a trade group that represents
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: those three have talked about the prices for items in
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: steel cans increasing by nine to fifteen percent at the store.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: So you know, what are you looking at there? At
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: that rate, the price of a can of vegetables cost
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: in two bucks could jump up, you know, to between
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: two fifteen and two thirty per hand, which again not
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: that canned food is the only end all be all here,
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: but it is a pretty significant increase. If you're talking
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: about canned corn going from two bucks to two dollars
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: and thirty cents, that's a pretty significant uptick on food
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: prices that people are already fairly uncomfortable with this. One
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: doesn't seem like it's going to go away overnight. And look, ultimately,
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: US Steel can produce some of this stuff domestically, but
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: it's not going to happen overnight either, And so I
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: think those I think those price increases are likely real.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: The other question is, hey, do we see this stuff
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: on aluminum and then do beer prices go up to
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: That's the more important question to me, at least, is
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: what happens to beer prices is always my concern. But
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: this is the area that's being talked about. It's not
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: the other industries that you steal. You don't hear a
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: lot about the auto industry. This seems to be one
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: that high turnover, high frequency, and will be quick realized
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: by consumers.
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you wonder if some of these companies, the longer
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: this goes on, do they scrutinize whether they want to
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: continue to use steel and these tin plate, these tin cans,
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: or you know, perhaps pivot to another sourcing, whether that
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: be you know, plastics or some other there that is
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: potential ramification there. But it does seem like there is capacity.
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: You just wonder how much demand is there for these other,
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: you know, domestic producers to focus on these type of markets.
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: I can't imagine the margins are too large compared to
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: some of the more larger, larger scale steel endeavors.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: I've got to say. And maybe I'm just being maybe
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: I'm just being ob too sort or not caring about
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: enough about this specific space. But this probably doesn't even
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: rank top ten on my list of concerns about the
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: economy right now. Just honestly, like I don't love the policy.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: I see why they're doing it. The last time we
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: did steal in illuminum tariffs that led to job loss.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's a great deal. It'll help the
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: domestic steel industry, but I think everyone understands the trade
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: off there, which is you'll have a robust steel industry,
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: but a bunch of other industries will struggle because of it. Honestly,
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's going to cause a recession. I
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: don't think it's going to meaningfully increase prices across the board,
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: and ultimately I think the economy just adapts to it.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: I'm with you.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: Summer in New England is nearly upon us. The kids
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: are home from school, the sun doesn't set until after eight,
• 25:26
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• 26:28
  Speaker 2: Paul, have you been seeing more of the digital shelf
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: labels at grocery stores, given how frequently you do the
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: grocery shopping for your family.
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: And seven dollars garlic, Paul, I'm just glad you didn't
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: ask me for the cans prices on the last one
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: for the.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: Cannedlime of beans. What you got, Paul, give me the
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: over under.
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: I was trying to think of how many cand items
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: we even have in the house, and that was a
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: struggle to wreck my brain on. So I'm aware of
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: it for the work that I do for the show,
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: but not in.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: So There's been a bigger push recently from grocery stores
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: for I think, what are obvious reasons to replace regular
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: price labels with digital price labels. It's an expensive transition,
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: but it gives you an immense amount of flexibility when
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: you think about how frequently, for instance, egg prices change.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: The criticism of it, I think is pretty obvious. If
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: you're able to do this, Okay, it's in the New
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: England area today it's what like sixty four and rainy. Okay,
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: So what I'm going to do in the New England
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: region right now is I'm going to charge pretty normal
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: prices on ice pops and ice cre sunscreen, all that stuff. Thursday,
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: I think it's supposed to be mid eighties and Sunday sunny,
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: and then Saturday again it'll be rainy for like the
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: sixteenth weekend in a row. If I have a physical shelf,
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: I've got to pay somebody to go there and jack
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: up the price on sunscreen on that Thursday where the
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: sun's out and the you know, the temperature has increased.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: If I have a digital shelf, I can have an algorithm.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: I don't even need to pay a person. I can say, hey,
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: control the sunscreen prices and the ice cream prices purely
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: based on the temperature outside of this area, and fluctuate
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: it every day based on that. Obviously, people don't love
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: the idea of that, but that's what I would do
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: if I own a grocery store, and I think that's
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: ultimately where they're going to go with it. And as
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: much as some people might push back on this, I
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: think we're largely going to accept it.
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: I would say that it may be overdone how much
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: you see of this, because they make some good points
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: in this article that ultimately the relationship with someone who
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: shops at your grocery store is something that is not
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: just a one time purchase sort of a couch or
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: I mean a vehicle is not a one time purchase,
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: but a substantial purchase that you don't go back too often.
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: It's a weekly endeavor.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And if you feel like you're getting screwed, if you're.
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: Found guilty of doing these prices searching tactics, does that
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: damage your brand reputation to cause Mike or someone else
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: to say, you know what, screw this place. I'm going
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: to go elsewhere. Because they happened to gauge me. I
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: was looking to buy inflatable pool for the kids or
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: whatever at Walmart, and they happen to increase the price
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: by fifteen twenty percent. I'm not going to shop there anymore,
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: just because it irritates you. So I feel like, because
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: this industry is so fragmented and so competitive on pricing,
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: I just don't think that they have enough grasp on
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: market share to do this to irritate, to you know,
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: successfully take advantage of people like that. There's just so
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: much competition it would be hard to do that.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: The really scary version of this futuristic world that we
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: all live in, the one that really like I don't
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: is nowhere in the near future. But that you know,
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: worries me in the back of my mind is Okay,
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: I'm the grocery store, and I have some means of
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: identifying that Paul Lane just walked down the aisle, because
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: I've I've got a tag to his phone or somehow
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: I've learned enough about him that I know that he's
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: the one shopping, just like Amazon does when Paul logs
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: on to Amazon, and I can customize prices to Paul Lane,
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: because God knows, that guy doesn't know what garlic goes for,
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: and so I'm gonna charge this guy six bucks because
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: he has no idea that garlic should cost so little.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: And that's not even being talked about. But that's the
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: dystopian world that I think many fear with these types
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: of things, is, Hey, do you get to some point where,
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: just like airlines vary the price based on your IP
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: address and what time you're looking to stare the flight
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: and who you are, it starts happening in store shopping too.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: And that's the weird dystopian future that we are nowhere near,
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: but that people fear with these price changes.
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: The good thing is there's always gonna be a lot
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: more competition or options on the food space than is airlines.
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: There's only so many ways you can get to Miami
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: from Boston, but there's a whole lot more ways that
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: you can go out and do a grocery store run.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Right now, Yeah, no doubt. Let's take a quick break
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: when we come back here. Stack Roulette, the Financial Exchange
• 31:09
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• 31:10
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• 31:14
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• 31:17
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• 31:50
  Speaker 2: This market can't seem to make up its mind. It's
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: slightly positive here as we close out the hour. But Paul,
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: what do you have for us for Stack Roulette?
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: PC here from the Wall Street Journal. Think twice before
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: you unsubscribe. We have a just deluge of these emails
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: that we get it all.
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: I unsubscribe like once a week by the way, from
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: like random emails I can.
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: We get you might I think you share in the
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: same boat with me on this as a company. Ever
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: since we made a transition, we get just bombarded with them.
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: It seems like average, maybe I get ten to fifteen
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: a day. It's just absolutely constant, and sometimes I get
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: so irritated that I just go on this binge of
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: unsubscribing from all these different sites that in date we
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: meet with daily emails. And this Welsteret Journal piece makes
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: a good point here that think twice just before you're
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: clicking that unsubscribe and just because what happens was when
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: you click that unsubscribe obviously you're taken to a separate
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: web page in order to click that unsubscribed button, but
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: you do find yourself in a place where you're trying
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: to hastily kind of take care of it and get
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: it done very quickly.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: You just have to enter your email address.
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, just be sure, I mean this piece mentions don't
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: end your password. It's hard. Many of these I'm not
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: even a subscriber to in the first place, so that
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: is not even on the table. But really, just be
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: careful as to what type of information you're entering or
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: where that website is taking you, to ensure that it
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: is a place that legitimately is unscribing you from the
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: communications and not potentially putting your information out to be
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: exposed for mailware or anything else.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: It seems to me that generally speaking, I don't do unsubscribe.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: I basically block the center in a lot of cases, yeah,
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: because I don't trust that this is a legitimate website
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: that I can actually follow. And so my feeling on
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: has been like, Okay, yeah, if this is a big,
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: well known company and I'm able to verify that they
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: are who they say they are, I'll go hit the
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: unsubscribed button. Google. Gmail will actually send me notifications every
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: once in a while like hey, you haven't opened an
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: email from this place in three months? Do you want
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: us to unsubscribe for you? And I will click that.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: Hopefully that's not causing a problem. But this is akin
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: to what I've experienced elsewhere, because what they accuse him
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: of doing in the least damaging ones are Okay, they
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: take your email address and say, oh, yeah, you unsubscribed.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: Here's like thirty new subscriptions that we're going to start
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: sending you because we know that this is a legit
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: of email address, and that is exactly what I've experienced
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: with spam phone calls. I generally never pick up the
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: phone if I don't recognize the number. But I was
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: buying a car recently from a dealership with a five
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: aweight area code, and that's also my area code, and
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: so that's where all my spam calls come from. I
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: accidentally picked one up. Should have hung up immediately, couldn't
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: help myself talk some trash to the people trying to
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: scam me out of fake solar panels. And since that date,
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: I have received no fewer than twelve spam calls a day,
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: every single day, from five aweight phone numbers. And I
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: know what happened. I mean, the guy swore at me
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: and said you know, no, you know, no sugarcoating it.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: That he was not terribly happy with me wasting his time.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: And I just know that the second that happened, he
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: took my phone number and plastered it all over the
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: dark web, saying, hey, this is this guy's name. Call
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: him as much as you possibly can. Turn it on
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: for this guy, because he's a jerk, and he, you know,
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: turned down my fake solar panel offer.
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: And how how long did you go down the solar
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: panel road with this guy?
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: So first I got, you know, the first person that
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: you know asked me my name and told me about
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: and they just said, you know, is this Mike Armstrong?
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: And I was like, all right, I know what this is,
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: but I said yes, and so they're like, all right,
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: I want to connect you with our person here. And
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: so they connected me with a new guy who started
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: talking to me about the solar panels. And so he
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: just goes and so can I get your address? I'm like, well,
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: let's just be clear here. You have my phone number
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: and name, but you don't have my address. And at
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: that point he just went off on me.
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: It seems unfair on his end.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: He just went off on me because he knew that
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: I wasn't going to fall for this garbage. And it
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: wasn't rude or anything like that. He was he used
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: some rather course language that can compete on air. But
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: you have the bleep ready to go, Tucker. But from
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: I guess that's the other cybersecurity warning of the day,
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: which is even merely answering the phone, which is so
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: tempting to do because so many of these are so
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: stupid and all you want to do is just tie
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: them up on the phone so they can't harm other people.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: And I get that desire, but before you do it,
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: just understand that you will be buried with this stuff
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: going forward if you go and do something when it's
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: your area code.
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: It's tough. You know that that one you do think
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: is it something from my kid in town that you
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: know they're calling from, you know the nine seventy eight
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: to six one seven, whatever, And it makes you more
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: willing to I will say, the phone does a pretty
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: good job. Are you still an Android? Yeah, loser, The
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: iPhone does a pretty good job, Tucker. You probably can
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: back me on this. Uh, sorting out what our spam calls,
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: I feel they've gotten They've gotten better and better at
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: that saying potential spam again.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: Before this incident, I wouldn't get any, so like it
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: was doing a pretty good job of filtering it out
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: until this incident, where I suspect that I just plastered
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: all over there as a key target that they want
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: to hit. So I'm sure that I'm still getting some
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: of them filtered out, but not nearly enough of them
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: to make a difference. At the stage. So yeah, especially
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: look if you have you know, especially loved ones who
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: are seniors who are dealing with this. That's where it
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: gets really dangerous because it might be one thing for
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: me to turn down fifteen calls a day, but my
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: eighty four year old grandfather wouldn't be able to handle it,
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: and I'd be really worried.
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: The text from easy Pass there's been a lot of
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: spoofing of that either mine. My mother was mentioning that
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: she got an immediate work which she has younger coworkers,
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: and they're like, no, don't, don't do anything with that.
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: You know, it's it's tempting with the unpaid bills that
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: people freak o.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Markets remain in positive territory as we close out the show.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: The S and P five hundred up fifteen points or
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: quarter of one percent, then ASDAK up fifty one points
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: another quarter of a percent. There, small caps are up
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: quite a bit this morning, up seven tens of percent
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: on the Rustle, two thousand in the Dow. Basically flat
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: for the day. We'll be back out of tomorrow with
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: an eight thirty am CPI print. We'll be covering that
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: and more tomorrow on the financial exchange,