Latest / WoT Spoilers / An Offer and a Departure & A Box Opens - The Gathering Storm chapters 13-14 - EP521

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An Offer and a Departure & A Box Opens - The Gathering Storm chapters 13-14 - EP521 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, today we are doing a doubleheader of chapter coverage because.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: The second chapter barely counts as a chapter.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: It's a chapter, barely counts as a chapter.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, I mean just because it's Gowen chapter, it
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean you can completely dismiss it.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Yes, it does, all right.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: In order to keep this chapter entertaining, I am going
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: to use every opportunity to support my Gowen was under
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: compulsion during the rebellion theory, because otherwise I'm just not
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: going to care about this chapter enough because it's this
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: is Gonwan's This is the beginning of Gowin's journey, right,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: This is Sanderson has started us on several characters journeys
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: at this point. He is creating a journey for Gowaen
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: to go through through these three books, and this is
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: the beginning of it.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Yep. And so yeah, we're as you can tell, we're
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: very excited about what we're going to cover today, and
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: so we're going to do two chapters in an effort
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: to make this fun.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, just you know, fan favorites Cott Swayne and Gowen,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: the two favorite characters that everybody on the internet loves.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: Such divisive, divisive characters. But see, we're not the kind
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: of people who court controversy and clickbait, so we're taking
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: chapters that could be really good for like stirring the
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: pot and getting engagement, and we're just sort of like
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: tiptoeing around it like you.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Although I gotta say, based on live attendance, maybe we
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: should do terrible chapters more often. People are out in rows.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: Wow, you're right, that is kind of a crowd. Hello,
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: so get to see so many face.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Hello buddy, thank you for joining us. Well, yeah, I
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: guess I'm reading this in, aren't I?
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: Yep, yep. Gowan is definitely your cross to bear, Thank you?
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Do I do him? Just do? I just hold my
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: nose so it's just the most nasally voice I can
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: do while I'm I'm going for it. Or do I
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: just just really go whiny?
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: You know, you're trying to make him sympathetic with your theory,
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: and I will be fighting with you about it at
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: the end. I will let you make your case and
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: then at the end I will refute the whole thing
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: for points. So do your best to make him sympathetic
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: by not making him wi.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Okay, fair enough, fair enough. So this is chapter thirteen,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: an offer and a departure, and this is the icon
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: was the hand marked blade right, because they talk about
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: him being a swordmaster through a big.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Chunk of this big sword fighting chapter.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: It's a big SWORDI fighting chapter. There's a lot of
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: sword forms in this chapter. Gowan stood sword at the ready,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: facing down two orders. The barn let in slots of light,
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: air sparkling with dust and bits of straw kicked up
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: from the fighting. Gollin backed slowly across the packed dirt floor,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: passing through patches of light. The air was warm on
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: his skin, Trickles of sweat ran down from his temples,
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: but his grip was firm as the two warders advanced
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: on him. The one in front was Sleet, a limber,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: long armed man with rough hewn features. In the barn's
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: uneven light, his face looked like an unfinished work one
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: might find in a sculpture's workshop, with long shadows across
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: his eyes, his chin divided by a cleft, his nose
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: crooked from being broken and not healed. He wore long
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: hair and black sideburns. A tory had been quite pleased
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: when her order had finally arrived. At dore Lyn. She
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: lost him at Douma as wells and his story was
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: a sort gleamin and barreds sang about. Sleet had lain
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: wounded for hours before deliriously managing to grab his horse's
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: reins and pull himself into the saddle. It had loyally
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: carried him near unconscious for hours before arriving at a
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: nearby village. The villagers there had been tempered to sell
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: Sleet to a local band of bandits. Their leader had
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: visited earlier, promising them safety as a reward for revealing
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: any refugees from the nearby battle. However, the mayor's daughter
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: had argued for Sleet's life, convincing them that the bandits
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: must be dark friends if they were seeking wounded worders.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: The villagers had chosen to hide Sleet instead, and the
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: girl had nursed him to safety, So you know, basically
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: putting Sleet up there on a pedestal for everybody.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: It was the marrow of stories and legends, right.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Which fade to myth. Yeah, he is definitely like Sleet
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: is in a lot of ways. I feel like they're
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: trying to hold him up as like a paragon of
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: a warder he's another Land.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: He's land Es. Yeah, he's an Aragorn. He's just yet
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: another word. And that's the thing that and Gawain like
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: definitely has a crush on Sleeate because like the description
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: goes on for paragraphs about how he's like noble and
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: modest and his chin is all chiseled and he's like,
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: you know, not like he's not cute like other boys,
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: but there's just something about him, like Godwin has such
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: a fucking crush on this man, like in so many ways,
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: but he really is an archetypal warder. This is Sanderson
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: putting in his own twist on the archetypal Warner type,
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: which is fine because I think we needed more of those.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: I think we needed less of Land being a singular
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: archetype like or a singular example. We needed more examples
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: of Land is amazing because look at how incredible all
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: these other guys are. Right, we were just told landa
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: is amazing. We haven't really seen warders who were as
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: badass as Land on the surface at a surface glance
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: to then contrast him to.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: But I do think on some level Land is the
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: most badass of the bad asses, right, Like exactly he
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: is he's not like average worder. He's the best of
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: the bad exactly.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: And we never saw an average order. But the implication
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: has always been that the average order is still as
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: cool as Land to a lay person. Right, you have
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: to like see them in action for a while to
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: like understand the nuances. Instead, we just saw Land and
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: then the concept of a warder sort of in the background. Right.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: I wanted to see more Warters being incredible, and Sanderson
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: is like, well, here's a speed run version of that
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: in one quick, little self contained vignette short story, which
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: is just such a like children's fairy tale, And I
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: think it's charming.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: It is charming, And I do like the way he's
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: giving him backstory, right, a good backstory on a side character, right,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: it makes him much more real for the bits that follow. Right,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: I care more about sleep in this chapter than I
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: do about Gowin.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: Literally, Yes, I'm so invested in, Like who this guy
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: is who has eyes to die?
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Is?
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Why did he leave this woman that had feelings for him?
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: How is he choosing to let Gowin go? The fact
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: that Sleet thinks deeply about the conflict in the Tower,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: I care about his opinion more than I care about
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: Gowen's opinion on this plot that I care so much about, right, yeah, totally, totally.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: He's a good character and honestly I want to know
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: more about he Tori as well, I said, I this
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: is this, I said, I who I mean, obviously must
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: be fairly weak in the power, right because nobody cares
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: about her opinion? We get we get that later where
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: like you put it together that she must why does
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: no one listen to her?
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: Well, she kind of dyke on s.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly exactly, so she just basically gets to follow
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: along and do whatever she wants, and she kind of
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: got tricked into do my as wells. I'm a little
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: that feels a little apologistic to me, but whatever, Yeah.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: Trick just she had her blinders on for her sake
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: of her own survival. Like she she was not committed
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: to the cause capital C the way that you know
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: the reds in charge were. She was just like, oh,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: if I hide in these coattails in this wake, I
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: can move myself and position myself in a different location
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: and you.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Know, oh, y'all leave in the tower, I'm coming.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, like, so where are we going? Like after
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: the good train has already pulled out, like it wasn't
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: a good call, but like it's a different call than
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: a lot of the other eyes to Diamond and yeah,
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: you don't again hear about a lot of us to
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: die like that. But because of Sleep, I'm like, I
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: want to know about Hattori. I want a toy to
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: like go to and Or and like have a whole
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: like being an Andor, like honestly go and please just
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: let Tory bond you and like get out, just like
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: go away.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: But as far as I can tell, the only details
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: we have about them are the stuff we already know
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: that they were at do Might as well as they escaped.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: They've kind of accompanied the group, right, but just as
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: this group, we know that who they've been with this
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: whole time. But other than that, you know, they were
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: side characters until Sanderson came forward and took those names
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: and did something with them in this chapter.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: Torre was mentioned before, but Sleep wasn't, I think.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Hitory is you know, so we know who
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: and obviously like Sleet was with her during those moments, right,
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it's important.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: Do we know how how they if they die in
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: the last battle?
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: No, No, not that I not that. I let me
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: do a quick google just make sure.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, just presumed fought on the correct side and lived.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Dot dot dot Tory Hanzo's who I get when I, uh,
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: it's not who I am looking for. No, Yeah, that's
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: that's that's it.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So it's a nice little vignette short story. But
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: it doesn't have to be in this world per se.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: It's just a nice vignette short story. It doesn't actually
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: connect to the larger plot beyond showing that Gwen is
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: a bisexual disaster I might.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: I have to correct you. So Sleet is on guard
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: duty at the Field of Marillre and escorts Lluella and
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Shipless and bail domon to Ninieve's tent. He's seen leading
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: the White Tower forces reinforcing Gowan on the Candori front.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: Oh well, that's nice. He actually does get to have
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: a thing to do in the last battle.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: That's awesome, And he gets to sort of rejoin Gowen
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: and support him.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: I like the he gets to be present for some
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: characters meeting Llwyn and Igwain, and then also gets to
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: circle back with Gowan. That's actually a lot of loose
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: ends to get to tie up with one briefly introduced character.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: Good job, Sanderson, you really nailed this whole sleep assignment.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: You got that one.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: Right, and you got that one right. Yeah, it almost
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: feels like it's based on some old anime, right, Like
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: I want this to be the plot of an anime.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: Just the way he's described with the chops and everything
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: feels like a seventies anime description.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, totally.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: And just what I know about Sanderson is so many
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: of his books are really just based in anime, Like
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: if you mean about what he's doing, right, Like he
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: builds these worlds that like if you actually visualize what
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: he's doing, you're like, oh, he's writing anime. Like they
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: have big swords, they jump really high because the gravity's lower.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: They're all Asian looking, like it's it.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: I'm not a super visual reader, and I have never
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: had such vivid and clear pictures in my mind of
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: how fights looked as when I was reading Sanderson, Like wow,
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: I am not used to having a literal video going
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: in my head of a fight and it looks really anime.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: Like my own imagination, which is normally bad at this,
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: is producing an anime film in my head, Like wow, Sanderson,
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: you are evocative in this medium.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: So that's why every yeah, everyone's while I'm reading through,
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I know, And he admits like that is
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: a source of inspiration for him, right like he final
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: fantasy and some other.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not a critique, just like an observation like this
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: is the fingerprints are all over it, Like wow.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: The next line I really thought was interesting was Gollan
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: respected the ones you'd killed, like and there's a whole
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: line about respecting people who like die for the cause
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: and stuff like that, which just I don't know, a
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: little foreshadowing there.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Maybe the line I highlighted in that paragraph was while
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: I said I manipulated the world, and monsters like hell
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Thor got the glory, men like Sleep quietly did the
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: work of heroes each and every day. That was the
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: line that stood out to me because that was the
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: kind of self aggrandizing, whiney ass pathetic attitude.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: That caused by compulsion.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: I see, I see that attitude in characters and people
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: I don't like. That's a that's a level of there's
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: this just like finger pointing anyone but me. I'm not
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: the problem, You're the problem. Everyone else is the problem.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: I just I don't like it, that attitude of like,
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: there's these people who are manipultive and these other people
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: who are heroes, and no one recognizes the heroes, but
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: I recognize the heroes that I just I recognize that
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: as being deeply toxic in a lot of different context
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: And yeah, go and I don't. I don't agree with
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: you that that way of looking at the world is
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: inherently toxic. I think and is just a big fat
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: red flag to stop and unpack what's happening.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: Here's the thing, though, I said, I are the rich
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: billionaire who are manipulating the world.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: There is an extra magical component that makes it more
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: true in his analysis, but the whole like monsters like
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: al Thor, like that's mulsion what basis? Yeah, okay, sure, sure,
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: there's compulsion evidence.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: This is my bomb. This is hit number one, right,
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Like the idea that he has been compelled to support
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: the ambulance seat and hate al Thor explain so many
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: of his behaviors and irrationalities.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is toxic brain worms. When I see
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: people in the real world having this kind of logic
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: in their analysis of why things are the way they are,
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: I think they have brain worms. So he's got brain worms. Me,
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: are they magic brain worms?
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm going for. That's what I'm going for.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: That's all I'm saying.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: It's really funny. He looks up to Gold, He's like,
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to be like Galad someday, and I'm like, dude,
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Gold would never have put himself in this level of fucker.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: And he's a white cloak.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Right, he would have kept his loyalties much more clear.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: You have mondied them fiercely.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Mm hm oh yeah, So Zula's asking for you to
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: clarify who you think compelled Gowin.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: Okay. So, uh, this is back during the split of
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: the Tower, right that it was. It was sudden, and
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: the overthrow of Suon was of course set up by
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: Alida at the encouragement of danel or aka Massimo Masana Massana. Sorry,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: So Masana is in the White Tower basically fomenting rebellion
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: with Alida as part of that. She goes down and says,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: I'm going to create two different for sting the warders
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: to be occupied. So I'm going to basically encourage the
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: younglings to fight against who can I neutralize the waders
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: with the apprentices. So I'm going to encourage them to
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: fight up against the warders. They'll probably get wiped out
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: or whatever, it's not important, right.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, These two forces will neutralize and distract each other. Right,
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: that's the point.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: And so then but then that's this compulsion, right, as
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: we've seen with the all the other track hands right,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: all that's also a trend.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: No one other trick. Can we went over this? Elaine
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: never threw off her compulsion.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, but they all got compelled.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah, yeah, like head injuries. Yeah, actually less
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: like head injuries. And then food just appears through the
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: wall arm that delivers food.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: I love this new house. It's really really quite nice.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: Right, the modern appliance and drink nice.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Oh but it's but the arm demands demands.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Does demand, that does demand payment. I cannot hold on
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: to all the things I currently have. So where were we?
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: What were we? Yeah? Words are getting attacked by the students.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: That then creates this sort of group of you know,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: and and if you can't compel all of them, like
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: that's too busy, So compel their leader, right gowin to
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: help fight against the orders. And that that's why he
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: can't leave. That's why he's stuck. There's a lot of
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: and there's a bunch of it in this chapter. Right,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: I'll go over his conflicts that he's struggling with, but
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's the same kind of conflict that
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: we see in his mother when she's struggling to get
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: away from Gabriel.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: So that is the theory. That is the basis of
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: the theory, and this chapter can includes most of the
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: textual evidence that you have for the theory. So we
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: are giving it. It's airtime. I will shred it to
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: death at the end.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: No, I mean, and I am not in any way
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: dying on this hill. I just like the theory. You
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: know what it is is when people bring up the oh,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: he got whacked on the head by Matt and that
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: gave him a concussion, and that's why he acts the
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: way he does theory, I go, you know what, that's fun,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: that's dandy, you know. And he got ignored, right, he
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: was lying on the ground and you know all the
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: e sid eye flowing to gallid because he's all pretty,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: and so his ed injury got untreated, which is why
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: he has you know, permanent brain damage. Pretty fun, right,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: But like not at all.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: You know, just Elaine gets worse head traumas and no
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: one says that about her, so right.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Right exactly, you know, she gets her skull cry although
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: and I need those healer afterwards, so.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: But still she has sit a long time before she
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: gets healed. So like it's, yeah, if we're going with
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: go and had a brain problem, why not take it
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: to the next step and make it magic?
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Right? Right? If it's if you're already taking his free
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: will away, right, if that's something that's already being removed
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: from the equation by that theory, then I'm going to
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: go with a theory that I like better. I think
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: has more contextual evidence and frankly, just you know, makes
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: a little more sense.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: And the thing I will say as supporting evidence is
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: that Massana specifically was involved in creating schools and organizations
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: of children who were specifically agents of chaos and betrayal
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: and were her eyes and ears and spies and agents
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: of chaos. Massana's children. I read this in some supplemental material.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: They were called Masana's children after the thirteen Forsaken were
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: sealed away. Massana's children, all of her students, the different schools,
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: all of those were a problem for like, basically the
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: duration of the breaking. There were these kids, these feral
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: bands of kids running around who were essentially dark friends
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: who had been trained to be that way by Masaua
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: and Masana's immediate minions, and it was a very specific.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: Part of what made the breaking like so terrible for
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: a lot of people was because Massana's children capital letters
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: were running around. So I love the idea that she
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: has pulled out that old trick and gone for the children,
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: the students, and weaponized the students against their teachers. It
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: fits Massana as a forsaken specifically, and I really like
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: that as a loose end getting tied in.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. Yeah, true, a loose.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: End, but you know there's a little bit of give there.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: The evidence is stacking up, That's all I'm saying. The
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: why not category, it's the why not like, you know,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: feel free to shredd it, you know why that's not happening.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: And I understand people really want go one to be
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: a bad guy, right, They want to blame him for
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: his actions, and they feel like this is robbing him
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: of that freedom to make bad decisions.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's his agency, but it is a fun theory.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: And because this is the chapter with so much of that,
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: right contact, this is the time. This is the time
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: to unfold it and let it have its air before we,
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: you know, all collectively pummel it and put it back
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: in the dark corner where it belongs.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: All right, Moving on in the chapter, I like the
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: note where warders remember warders, right, like, even if they're
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: not remembered in the legends, and they're just remembered like
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: as with their isesid eye, like soldiers remember soldiers. I
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: like that little bit, yeah.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: For sure, which is valid. I mean, cannon fodder is
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: so named for a reason, you know, that's mean, it
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: is mean, it's terrible, like I blame the English, you know.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: Also there is a third worder here. We should should
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: We have just been talking about Gobwin and Sleep, but
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: there is this other guy, Marlush who's just like, oh, yeah,
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: he's here too. Like he's not as good, he's not
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: as epic, but he's here too.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I feel like he's only there so that
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: like to make Gowin more impressive, right, so that if
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: Sleep were to take him on, Sleet would know he
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: didn't have a chance. Later on in the chapter because
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: he'd never beat him even with help.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, dude's just there for flavor. Poor Marlush.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: He doesn't get any water handed to him, like nobody
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: cares about him. He's just sort of there.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: I do feel like this is a bit of a
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: mirror of Matt taking down Matt and Glad or Matt
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: taking down Gowan and Galade at the same time a
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: little bit.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, flipped around's leveled up. Now he's the one taking
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: on two other fighters who know how to work as
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: a team and beating them both handily exactly. I like that.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: I like that it's a way of showing how much
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Gotwain has progressed that like he would give Matt a
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: much tougher run for his money. Now, of course Matt
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: has also leveled up, But you know, Matt from that
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: book would have a.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Much Book four. Whatever Matt just.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: Recovered would with a literal swordmaster. Now that might be
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: overpowered slightly.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: So what follows is a gold mine of fighting technique
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: and sword forms.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Yes, Sanderson is Sanderson hard right here.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean some of them certainly are reused, right,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, but we've got cat dances on the wall,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: leopard's caress folding the air, cat on hot sand not
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: not to be confused with cat dances on the wall,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: Not to be confused with cat crosses the courtyard either,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: of course. Right, there's a lot of cat ones.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: Not to be confused with cat on a hot tin roof,
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: not to be confused with siddler on the roof. Am
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: I am? I doing it right?
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: No? Okay, if I was a rich man. Hummingbird kisses
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: the honey rose.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: You've seen that one so many times.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, apple blossoms in the wind and shake dew from
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: the branch, which is probably what you do after using
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: the urinal.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: I'll take your word for it.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: So it's a it's a it's a stirring, epic fight
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: scene in which the sword forms stimulate my imagination and
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: I enjoy reading it. But see it on screen, beautiful,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: beautiful sword farm fight between the between the three of them,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: which ends in Gollin of course, winning and the two
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: orders being shocked.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a three way sword fight between shirtless men,
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: and there's definitely nothing homoerotic about that.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: Nothing homorotic about a three.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: Way Nope, nothing at all. Just twisted their swords together.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: I hate it when they get tangled up like that.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then once they've you know, finished, they need
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: a drink of water because they're tired.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: Right. Well, you know, it always has to recover afterwards.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: There's a refractory period basically.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we are in fact twelve. It's fine.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: What did you think about this? He was said to
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: have bested Landman dragon In twice out of seven battles. Right,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: so we've got someone back when Man Dragonon had been
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: known to spar with other orders, when do you think
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: that was? Is that twenty years ago? You know when
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: he first when like Moraine first bonded him. Is that
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: five years ago? When was he last sparring with other
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: people in the White Tower? Because been, I feel like
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: they've been out of the tower for a while.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: Well, he met her when she was out of the tower,
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: so they had to have gone back and stayed in
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: the tower for like a period of like six to
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: eighteen months a handful of times over that twenty year
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: period between when they bonded and when the book started.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: So maybe like the first couple of times that she
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: came back to you know, like do some research for
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: like a year and was like I need to go
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: hardcore with the Browns and like do a bunch of
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: research before we go out on our next round of
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: missions or whatever. And like the first time they did that,
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: he sparred with the warders, but then it was quickly
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: apparent he was better than everyone, so the next time
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: he didn't do it. But like it was a legendary
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: season the time that Landman draggering came through and like
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: everyone got to meet him in Spa and it was cool,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: but then he was like, I hate being a celebrity
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: and refused to ever do it again. And also Marine
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: only every went back to the tower, like literally a
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: single digit number of times in that entire like twenty
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: year period.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: She kind of once she went to Adalias and Van Deen, right,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: but that's she went to them because going back to
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: the tower was too dangerous.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Right, But she had gone back to the tower in
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: prior years when she was young. Because she met Land
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: right out of the gate, right, she gets her shawl,
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: she takes off, she meets Land. That's when the twenty
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: year clock starts, so she has twenty years in which
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: to learn all of her like adult isidim mistakes, develop
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: relationships with people, create feuds that mean she can't go
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: back to the tower.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Like.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: All of that takes place over time, and presumably near
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: the beginning, when they were both young and innocent, he
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: thought it would be fun to just spar with the
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: other guys. And then he was like, oh no, now
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: I'm a celebrity. This is terrible because that's what Land does,
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: is he he does anything at all, then everyone wants
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: to follow him, and then he runs away that he
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: has commitment issues.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: He was born in celebrity.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: Literally literally, this is why we shouldn't have hereditary celebrity.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: In the comments, like blended Fool said, Goda's favorite sword
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: for him is bore rushes into the china shop. That's good. Mmm.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: I literally was not because we've been moving again, as
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: I've said many times, but sometimes trying to get around
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: when you have boxes of stuff piled up and things
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: not exactly in their place is difficult, and so never
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: literally was like, you're just like a boor in a
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: china shop. Stop, they yelled at me yesterday. So yeah,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: I get that. I get that, I get that. The
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: little sympathy forgotten. They're one thing I wanted to point
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: out here, Gwin when he's sparring. The world contracted down,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: compressed like berries squeezed for their juice into something smaller
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: and easier to see from up close. Things seem so
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: simple when he was sparring. I think again, this struggle
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: that he's going through, if you think about it as
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: a struggle against compulsion, he's able to kind of stop
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: doing that when he's sparring because he doesn't have to
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: worry about who he's supporting and why. He's able to
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: just sort of blank that out with the spar and
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: using like the oneness. You know that basically that idea
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: of like focus on the fighting helps fight the compulsion.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: So kind of like the way I have to put
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: on podcasts in order to psych myself up to do
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: any housework, It's kind of like that. You gotta like
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: exactly trick your brain into like just being able to
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: like focus on one thing so that you can actually
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: do something else. So you're saying ADHD is compulsion.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: I'm saying ADHD as a form of having your brain
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: basically yanked in a place you don't want it to
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: go exactly actually tracks.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: But no, that's an interesting thought that like he's able
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: to access a different way of looking at the world
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: when he's doing the survival based sparring sword form thing
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: that like that's a hack around because it fits as
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: an analogy for Adhd really well.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: Then there's sort of this back and forth where they're
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: all complimenting him and telling him he needs a par
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: and Mark blade, and they bring up him killing hammer
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: and how he was a hat in the Hara Mark blade,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: so Golin should be a blade man and should carry one,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: and he's like, no, I didn't take it off the
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: dead because that's disrespectful, but like that's how you get
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: a hair in mark blade, right, Like I don't know.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: Well, if it had been a duel, like just a
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: straight ahead duel, then he could have picked up and
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: it would have made sense. But like it was a battle, right,
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: so the pacing was different. Fair fair, Like when Galage
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: kills Valda, it's a duel not a battle. Yeah, yeah,
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: so you know, And then he doesn't even pick up
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: the sword, right, other guys pick up the sword and
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: hand it to him and are like this is yours now, Like,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: but Galwyn was in the battle. I think it's splitting
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: hairs because he's a guilty little shit. I don't think
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: that makes any sensible. Yeah, maybe you wouldn't have picked
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: up the blade, but like you should still own the
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: fact that you killed a blade master in single combat.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: Like denying that on a technicality is kind of a
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: shit move, right, And.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: Again, if you feel like it wasn't you in control,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: that you weren't the one necessarily making the decision to
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: fight that battle, you may not want to represent that
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: you did that deed, right, Like, there might be part
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: of you who thinks, oh, I didn't make that decision,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: I was compelled to do it, so I shouldn't carry
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: the blade.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: Maybe just face the fact that you did shitty things
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: and own it and purge your way through the pain
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: instead of being a little shit and ruining everyone else's
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: life and making your lack of ability to take care
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: of yourself everyone else's problem.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: Listen, if I can blame a woman for a man's problems,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: I'm going to do it. Okay, Okay, sorry about that,
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: good morning. That was rough.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Very glad. I haven't actually experienced that directly in my life.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: I just know it's a thing that happens. But ah, okay,
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: find me and my crew of hitler youth doesn't sound
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: like single combat. Okay, fine, fine, valid, valid, But then
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: go on would have said people, then people would have
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: seen him do it. I guess everyone did seem to.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm it was a battle, Robert Jor
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: wrote it. There's no clear sequence of events.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't know how many people were also on
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Hammer's side, right, Yeah.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we actually don't know if it was single combat.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: I just know it was in the heat of battle.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: So because Jordan didn't want to write anime sequences with
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: clearly delineated timelines, there's a.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Little more about the young lings and how they're not
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: going on raids because Brins search parties are getting closer
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: to their hiding spot, which, like he's been doing these things.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: We've been sending out small party raids on a bigger force, right,
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: and he's been going back to their hiding spot. I'm
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: wondering why he's not moving the hiding spot if they're
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: getting closer.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: I think because he was ordered to stay there, and
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: he obeys the Ombrelin for reasons.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: For all for compulsion reasons.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: He obeys the Omborlin without question because he likes obeying orders.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: I think he just likes obeying orders.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he's not compelled tobay anything.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: And then and then Sleep asks goming into a different
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: three way.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: Jesus he does, he does. Yeah, that's about its accurate. Yeah,
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: there's definitely a very much a three way chapter.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like, Hattori and I have been monogamous, but
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: we're interested in the third and you know, I'm the
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: only one who has to judge, and like your sword forms.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's it's quite flirty. It's quite flirty.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: I think Sleet has a crush on going too.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: I do. Yeah, no, I mean he just saw him
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: kick some serious ass, right Like, he's like, dude, I
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: am the best one I know except for maybe land
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: over there, right, like, and you just kick my ass
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: and this other dude's ass who was no.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Slouch right right. He's like, that's hot. You should you
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: should join my marriage.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: You know, game recognizes game. What can I say?
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: Right, He's like, oh, you're in my league. You're actually
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: in my league. This is a rare experience.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: Between the two of us. Do you know how many
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: women we right old men? I don't know, something like yeah,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: it's just and we I don't know this. It's it's
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: it's a very interesting proposal.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: It's direct. It's a lot of communication for my wheel
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: of time.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: All right, Gollan thought, wondering why he was being told
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: this and all the build up to it. It's like,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: oh my.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: God, he does not realize it's coming on to him.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Did you not see the upside down pineapples on your
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: way in? Like, come on right right, why are you
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: telling me all these details about your sex life? I
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: don't understand. Yeah, yeah, it's freaking funny. Interesting what he
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: says to her, my place is beside my sister.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Then go immediately betrays everything for a different woman, like immediately,
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: like literally like half an hour later, he is betraying
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: everything for it not his sister.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: It's just I don't I don't want stand why he
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: doesn't Sorry about the yelling into the microphone, but I
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: don't understand why he doesn't go to her, Like go
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: to your sister, she needs you? Is the pattern? Like
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: you know what, no, Brigido, we need Brigida in that spot.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: So Golin, you're just gonna sit here and not lead
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: the forces. Meanwhile, Brigida's like, get me the fuck out
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: of here.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: Right, It's so weird how like he keeps saying out loud,
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: I really care about it. Even in his head he's like,
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: I care about Aline, I care about a Lane, And
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: then every other thought is like, actually, I care about Agwayne.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Also I need to kill Rand. And it's like, why
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: are you not thinking about your sister more often? Your
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: sister's getting like a quarter of your attention, and you
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: keep saying that she's supposed to be one hundred percent
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: of your attention. Like what is happening?
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: Inherent internal conflict because his loyalty is towards his sister,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: but the convulsion is to stay with the Amulin and
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: he loves Agwayne clearly. Yeah, I'm not going to argue that, right,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Like he clearly loves her. Just think there's some compulsion
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: to be loyal to the Amberlin, and that once he
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: finds out Agwayne is the Amberlin, which happens in this chapter,
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: a flip that he's able to go over where he
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: can then go obey her instead of Alida.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And then there's this quote from Sleep you perch
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: like a hawk glancing this away and that trying to
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: decide whether the perch or to hunt again. I know,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: it's like just all this internal conflict that he's feeling.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: And however you want to interpret that right, whether that's
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: divided loyalties being uncertain, I'm not confident in himself to
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: make that decision and stick with it, right or compulsion,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: however you want to go. Right, I think is legit.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: But compulsion I think is the right answer.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, youth explains a lot, though.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Youth does explain the fair amount.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: Yes, you're being compelled by your sheer lack of knowing
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: what the hell you're doing.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: But we've seen these characters grow up, like all the
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: other characters were stirred out as youths except Go one game, Gamy,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: let me finish my sentence. Gollwin has clearly been the
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: exception to that. No doubt that, like we've seen, like
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: even Elaine has made fewer dumb decisions than she used to,
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: although God, there's some really dumb ones coming up, so
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: that's hard to really put it.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: She keeps escalating her situation so her dumbassy stays consummate
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: with what she's trying to do. She never like plateaus
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: on what she's trying to.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: Do are like sleets take on the conflict that they
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: need to end it, even if people have to die,
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: but ending it's worth it.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I completely agree with him. It totally makes sense,
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: Like this has gone on way too long, Like there's
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: more death happening as a result of this shenanigans, like
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: just just just kill the three people that need killed
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: and let's get through this, okay, right.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: Yep, even if the leaders on both sides have to
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: be killed. Yeah, like this needs to end, which is
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: not acceptable to Gowin, right, yeah.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: But it needs to end. Someone needs to fucking end it.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: Then, Gowin's world of speculates on isid I ranks, which
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: we know is based on just pure power, which Sleep
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: kind of seems to imply that he knows because he
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: talks about how they only care about how big of
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: a stick they carry, which is seems to be like
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: how much of the one power they can in channel.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he just said dick measuring contest in politer terms, yeah,
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: which we've called it for a long time, and I
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: think that, Uh.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: It also implies that Torre is very weak in the power, right,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: because nobody cares what she thinks, right, because she's weak
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: in the power, right, that's the implication.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, she's down there with diagion on the bottom
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: of the ranks, not quite as low as Dagion, but
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: like lo again, a little.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: More about the relationship between Sleet and Httory very you
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: know romantic that like we both did what we had
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: to do, and if she after she was done doing
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: what she have to do, if she knew I still
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: needed help, she would have come for me. I have
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: no doubt. But at the time, by the time she
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: did what she had to do, I was fine. So
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: we both just took care of ourselves. But if we
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: couldn't have, we would have come for each other. Like,
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: don't mistake that.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: That trust is a really cool thing to see in
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: their relationships. Like again, I want to know more about
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: this Isyes to Die that her warder has such faith
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: in that, Like, oh no, she had her priorities in order,
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: and she would have gotten to me had I needed it.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: I want to know more about this Eyes to Die,
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: who would have done what she needed to do to
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: get back out of the tower no matter what, so
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: she could go rescue her warder, Like I want to
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: know more about her. That's cool because I believe him.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: I don't think he's lying or delusional. I think he's right,
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: and that is who she is, and we just didn't
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: get to meet her properly in the series.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: A little more of Gollin ranting about Rand he'd promised
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: and again think about Agwayne, but him saying he promised
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: her not to kill Althoor, at least not until after
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Gwin could prove for certain the dragon Reborn had killed
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: his mother. And again that's just I think that hatred
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: for the Dragonryborn is just more of that, you know,
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: his inability to move past that, I think is compelled
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: into him.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: It's ridiculous that he's like, why couldn't Agwayne see that
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: the man she'd grown up with had turned into a
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: monster twisted by the One Power?
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: Because he hasn't.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: It's like, under what authority can you tell me that
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: you know that the One Power has made Rand twisted?
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: Like under what authority are you telling me that Rand
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: needs to be put down for the good of the
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: world when literally thousands of years of your culture says
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: that you need him to fight the Dark One? Like
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: on whose authority are you upending all of that? What
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: information do you have? My good bitch?
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: It's so dumb, I mean, like, and you can't be
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: you can't even be convinced that he didn't kill your mother,
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: when not only did he not kill your mother, nobody
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: did literally alive.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: If she had been killed, it was by the person
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: that Rand then promptly killed. Like Rand literally avenged your
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: mother because he thought she was dead. Like the whole
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: reason Rand went to and Or and killed that guy
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: was because he thought more Gays was dead. Like he
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: very specifically did it because he thought he was avenging
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: your mother.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: So stop it.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: But no, listen to some random peddler with eighth hand
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: information that that sounds like great plan.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: And we know those conflicting stories out there, he just
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: picked one and chose to believe.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: It, right, And like, there are aspects of Rand that
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: are very much twisted into monstrosity by the one power,
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: like obviously the dark One compulsing his brain and making
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: him go all darthy is a problem. But Gowin doesn't
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: know any of that. What information does Gowin have? Nothing? Nothing?
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: He has vibes, Like even if the Ice and I
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: were telling him shit, which they're not, he still wouldn't
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: know anything because they don't know anything. The Tower, I said,
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: I are some of the most ignorant people right now
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: on the continent.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it's so like you want to be a
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: soldier who follows orders and also you want to think
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: that five minutes of research makes you better than all
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: of the medical research that's been done for like decades
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: and decades.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Like it does feel a little bit like Gowin's like
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Rand's the devil? Do you research very much?
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: So people like No, that weirdly formatted blog that you
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: found is not actually going to make me disbelieve like
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: multiple inter governmental organizations who say that like clean water
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: is important, Like what are we doing?
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Meanwhile, I'm trying to think anyway, trying to think of
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: what forsaken will be actually writing the blog right, Like
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: which poor It would have to be one of the
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: men who are really like one of the resurrected dudes.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: What's his name?
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: Balfamel.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a guy.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: He's a sleazy one who lies about everything, so he
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: would totally be the one who runs a conspiracy theory scene.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: M he's definitely got a podcast in a blog that
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: Godwin is following.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, lots of triangles and spooky music.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: God, sorry, I swear to god. Modern culture is rotting
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: my brain. I don't know what's going on A giant
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: holes in it.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: Unplug read a book.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: I'm trying. I'm trying, all right.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: So Gowan leaves the barn and he goes and walks
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: over to season some isidaie and on the way he
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: displays a level of class consciousness that the Isidai need
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: to emulate. He talks about the washwomen that the Isidi
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: have recruited to sort of help with the army has
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: sort of recruited to help with existing. The pay was
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: small for so much work, and Gowan gave the women
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: what little extra he could afford out of his own pocket,
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: a gesture that had earned him laughter from Nourenuin Sedai,
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: but thanks from the village women. Gowan might be a
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: prince and he might be a dumbass, but he's got
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: more awareness of like real people's problems than the isida.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: Like the acid I are laughing at the concept that
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: these poor people might need a little more from their
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: wealthy hands. Meanwhile, Gowan's like, you're paying them a pittance
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: and they're poor, so like, maybe tip the weight staff.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: If you're not going to pay them a living wage,
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: at least tip them. Maybe pay them a living way.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: But like you know, and this is I think why
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to gum up some sympathy for got one, right,
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: drum up, not gum up. He is a good person.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: He tries to do the right thing, and I really
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: think he's being prevented from doing so.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: Being kind to wait staff is generally a raging green flag, right,
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: Like it's like being It's like when dogs are nice
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: to someone. It's like, you're probably not the worst. If
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: you're nice to wait staff and dogs like you, you
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: might have some issues. But like that's a really big
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: green flag, man, And.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: It's a good point that Rand's doing some crazy stuff.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: I just don't think no one knows about any of
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: the crazy stuff Rand is doing. He's basically all on
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: this rumor of like of his mother, right, Like that's
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: the problem, is like he never gives any justification other
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: than his mother, and he's wrong about it. Right If
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: he was, like if he was like, God, he's attacking
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: the Sean Chan and this crazy fucking thing, and he's
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: doing this other thing, and he's doing this other thing,
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: and be like, okay, got one, you got a point.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: Right, If he was like following the campaigns and saying
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: that was an insane strategy as he two different people,
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: then it would be like, Okay, yeah, I know you're
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: picking up that there's something we're going on with Rand.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: But no, all he does is say, well, some guy
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: on the internet told me that there's like some stuff
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: that's bad, Like, no, cite your sources. What's happening. So
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: Going basically goes up to a secret meeting of Isidae
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: and is so honorable that instead of eavesdropping, he just
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: knocks on the door and demands information. And this gets
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: him nothing at all, but it shows that he's an
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: honorable person. Capital letters.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: I have a question, why the hell are they camped
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: in the BlackBerry bushes? I couldn't figure it out. He's like,
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: it's not the ideal place to camp, and then he
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: just kind of says that and like I'm like, but
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: then why are you there?
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: Because it's in the middle of the village. For some reason,
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: the village had a patch of blackberries just kind of
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: growing in the middle of the area of the village
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: and it only got cut down recently for the younglings
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: to camp on it. It's a I don't know why
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: they had a BlackBerry patch in the middle of the
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: village that seems weird.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: Also, just yeah, I feel like he's trying to say
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: something about Gollin picking that patch to just like because
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: strategically it's in the center and that's better, but he
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: ignores the discomfort and the fact that it's actually a
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: terrible place to be. Like, I feel like that's talking
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: about his politics, right, Like, he's picked the center even
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: though it's a really uncomfortable place to.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: Be, right right, this is what happens when you just
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: chase the Overton window without thinking about it, is you
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: end up sleeping in a BlackBerry patch. Sure make of
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: that metaphor what you will. The centrism maybe doesn't always pay.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: And then this whole thing about how he supports the
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: Ice of the Eye but he doesn't trust them. Okay,
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: then why are you supporting them? Right? Like, it really
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: seems to be this you know, compulsion problem that he has.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: And he loves a GWayne but he hates us to die,
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: and he hates the Amberlin but he obeys a gwayn Like, what.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: That's ternal conflict that seems just a little too artificial
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: to be non magic based.
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: And then he finally comes around to the point of
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: thinking that maybe that was a dumb decision, but it
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: takes way too long. It's a bunch of paragraphs of whining,
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: and then he's like, oh maybe maybe that snap decision
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: in a moment of passion was like a bad call anyway, And.
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: Like his reason for supporting a light of sucks. Right,
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: he supported a light in the rebellion, not because he
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: liked her, she'd always been cold in her years, right, No,
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: he supported her because she disliked He disliked Suon's treatment
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: of his sister and a GWayne, even though they are
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: choosing the other side. It's just I remember him having
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: that argument and him just he didn't even know what
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: the treatment was. He didn't even know what was going on.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: He just knew he couldn't get in contact with them.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not treatment of them. That the treatment of you.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: You didn't like being shut out, you didn't like being
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: kept in the dark. You felt like a whiny little
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: bit that needed to get mom's attention by screaming like
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: this is a you problem. This has nothing to do
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: with your sister or Aguayin.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: So Gowin has made it a decision in a moment
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: of passion. It hadn't been the cool headed act of
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: loyalty has met assumed. Right again, this is like he's
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: thinking back, going, I don't remember, I have no logical
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: reason why I made that decision. I just made it
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: for some I was almost like compelled to do it,
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: But again, this is what nineteen twenty year olds do.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, But like I just don't like giving him that excuse.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: We don't give any of the other characters that excuse,
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: even though they're the exact same age, if not younger, right,
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: Like we did maybe back in the beginning, and we
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: maybe gave Elaine a little more credit because she's even
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: younger than that, right, but like we are past that point.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: He's the leader of a group.
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: Right, I think we do give a lot of the
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: characters that shit. All right, he just hasn't leveled up,
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: Like he's still who he was. His responsibility have leveled up,
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: but he's still a sheltered little sixteen year old despite
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: the fact that the timeline has moved on two years. Like,
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: he hasn't leveled up at all. He's a dumbass, he's
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: And also we're blaming him for a decision that was
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: made like a year and a half ago on the
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: timeline right right, he's still living with the consequences of
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: that decision.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: But he's continued to make that decision. He could leave
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: at any time, like as is shown here right like
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: he walks away. He could have walked away so many times.
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: He could have joined another group. He could have gone
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: back to and Or at any time.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: That's the problem. He should have gone back to Andrew
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: as soon as the coup happened. He should have high
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: tailed at.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: The helld and exactly. He should not be part of this.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: He has no loyalty to the warders. I don't understand
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: why he stays. I like, then, this is the thing
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: that drives me nuts. This is why I've come up
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: with this theory. Is like, I don't know why he stays.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: He has so many other places to be. He could
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: be trying to find Agwayne, he could try to be fined,
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: could be trying to find Rand and enact his revenge.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: He should be back and or supporting his sister as
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: soon as he finds out she's taking the throne, probably
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: sooner when his mother goes missing, right like to an
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: agg revenge? What keeps him there? What keeps him there?
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: What reason does he have to stay? And I just
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: I can't come up with any in world character motivation
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: for him to stay other than just the lack of
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: making a decision or some form of compulsion.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: And lack of making decision really doesn't fit because of
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: the whole thing with him and Bryn later about like, oh,
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: you're actually a commander not a soldier, and that's like
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: a different mindset and you have to choose where to
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: put your loyalty. So, like he's in that conversation which
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: comes later, he gets framed as like the kind of
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: person who does make choices in a way that most
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: people don't, So like being a person who can't make
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: choices is kind of off the table, which does kind
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: of leave compulsion.
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: I do think that that loyalty, this specific loyalty, and
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: I'll point out later is tied to how he was compelled. Right,
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: there's a phrase that's in italics later on, where is
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: your loyalty? Gowandrick cand someone is asking him that I
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: was him, was asking him that he was asking himself. Sure, right, right,
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: But this is this is sort of again in my theory,
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: right is it really does feel like there's an external
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: voice who's saying, where is your loyalty gollandri cand and
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: basically saying your loyalty is to the ambulancee.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: It's like a kind of almost flashback kind.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: Of yeah, I kind of flashback to like that's him
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: kind of breaking, you know, kind of in the way
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: that like Morgeese remembers being told you know I love
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: you and saying, wait, did I say that? Or did
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: he say that? Like you know that that's or you're tired? Right? Wait?
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: Did am I? Did I say I was tired? Did
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: he say I was tired? Right? There's this moment where
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: I think Golwin's saying where is my loyalty? And he's like,
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: did wait, did I say where my loyalty was? Or
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: did someone tell me where my loyalty was? And he
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: repeats this phrase multiple times, where's my loyalty? Where's your loyalty?
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: Got under canned right?
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: Like well, also simultaneously affirming that his loyalty has always
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: been with Elaine and it has always been with which
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: should always be with Elaine, and like he keeps saying
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: that that's always been his character.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: Right, and yet he stays with Alida in the White
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: Tower and the Younglings.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a mess. So yeah, Gowin doesn't get to
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: be in the meeting, so he sort of sits there
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: and pouts about it for five minutes, and then the
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: meeting ends and he gets to see the normal coterie
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: of is that I come out? And also Katherine, who
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: very much did not arrive by conventional means, and this
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: shocks him and everyone else because this is her arriving
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: to say, here's how traveling works, make use of it
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: while it's a surprise, et cetera, et.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: Cetera, and she learned it from Elida.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Alida's deciding to make that information a bigger, more
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: public thing now. And also she brings news about the
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: rebellion and how the rebellion's going and the fact the rebellion,
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: the rebels Amerlin has been captured. She's bringing all these
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: updates and going you know, catches some of the updates
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: and it breaks the mind virus into a new form,
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: mutates the mind virus into a new form.
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, question, do you think Katherine knew how to
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: do a gateway before she was taught? Because again, like
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: Alvir and Neil.
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: Definitely the Black Aja high command secret. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: she definitely knew. But I do believe that this is
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: Alida deciding that she wants traveling to be used by
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: her forces and is sending Katerine out as a red
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: She's not there as a Black Sewing chaos.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: I'm just betting Katherine pick that weave up real quick.
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah you know what. I'm oh, yeah, this one never Wow,
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: you did that, like it? We've done it like thirty times,
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: just natural, I guess, yeah, yeah, yeah, and so yeah,
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: there's these lines here. There's actually quite a long paragraph
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: that Golin responds to. Right. What Golin thought was shock,
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: and so the question is what in that paragraph exactly
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: is he responding to it with shock? Right, because it
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: seems to be that he's responding to the fact that
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: she says that Alvier girl and this idea that oh
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: my god, Igwayne Alvier is the captured Ammerelin. But it
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: could be a combination of there is another Amberlin in
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: the Rebel Tower, and it is Agwayne that sort of
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: helps him. It puts him in this state of shock, right,
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: he realizes something's going on and I think, you know
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: again compulsion theory that he's been finding the compulsion and
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: now he realizes he can redirect it onto this target
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: that he would rather follow.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: So you think that it's not just the Agwaine factor,
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: it's the two amorline factor.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmmm hmmm.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: I haven't noticed or thought about that. Not a lot
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: of textual evidence for it, but there's textual space for it.
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: We can we can squit between the lines and fit
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: that in.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: And I am I am one hundred percent telling you
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: this is this. I am reaching for this theory. It
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: is not in canon, it's not in the text. I
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: am just don't feel that there's a lot of counter
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: evidence to it, So why not it's definitely my head canon.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: We No.
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: I like that that because I kind of assumed that
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: everyone knew that there was two armorlands, like I. It
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: isn't until you're bringing this theory up that I'm like, wait,
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: did they not know that there was another like hall
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: Omorland thing? Did they just think there was a gang
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: of rebels with no leader?
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: And like I never I never thought about that the
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: again legends fading to myth, the way information attenduates over
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: distance and time, Like I never thought about how much
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: it makes a difference to know that the rebellion the
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: opposition has leadership versus doesn't have leadership. That's a really
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: even without compulsion, that is an important piece of information
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: for everyone to know about or not interesting.
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: And if you're compelled to follow the Amberlin and suddenly
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: you find out there's two of them, you have a
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: choice to make. And if Alvi or if Massana was
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: not particularly specific with their compulsion.
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all his thoughts are about concern for Agwayne's well
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: being though. Yeah, yeah, but I like it that maybe
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: that is a little crack in the compulsion, just like,
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: but wait, now there's another's space that Galla's actual agency
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: can try to wiggle back.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: Through exactly exactly, and that's why he gets to make
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: this choice now to leave. So he confronts them, and
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: you know, he gets clarifying information that I guess it
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: is a gwayn Alvier. They thought they reveal traveling to
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: him right as this wondrous thing, and he's like, oh,
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: part of them is barely listening, you know. That's that's
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: how Gollin must be resupplying. But he's so shocked by
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: the news of agwayn Alvier. He's barely thinking about the
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: news of traveling.
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, he's blinded by his obsession with the amoline
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: slash igwain.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmmm hmm, and then this sort of where this
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: and then he was thinking about Agwayne over and over
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: and over again, this idea that like, if I remain loyal,
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: I can't help Agwayne, but I have to remain loyal.
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: Where's your loyalty? Blah blah blah blah blah, and that
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: like helps him break free of what I feel like
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: is that compulsion a little bit and helps him change loyalties.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: And so that's why I think that that line, where's
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: your loyalty, gallant, you can that's the moment. That's the
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: moment where he sort of remembers the compulsion and chooses
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: to violate it.
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: Ten minutes later found him in his tent. Like, once
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: he makes that decision, he is gone so fast, so fast.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: He's gone, he's packing saddle bags. He's gone now. Whether
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: whether that's him breaking the compulsion or making a decision, right,
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: that's the moment that he decides, my loyalty is not
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: towards the young lings, it's not towards the White Tower,
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: it's not towards Alida. It's towards Agwayne. And I'm going
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: to go tour.
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: Yep, it's decisive, and he lies to his friends to
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: get out quite happily. He just lies to them it's fine.
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: And then Sleet shows up his new boy crush and
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: cannot be led to, but also doesn't want to stop him.
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: Like that's the thing is that the younglings, the young
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: lings would try to stop him. The young lings wouldn't
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: get it. Sleet gets it and doesn't want to stop him. Sleet,
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: it's like, nah, this seems like the best move for
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: the war is to let this guy go and see
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: if maybe he can rattle some shit loose somehow. Like
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: I genuinely think Sleet lets him go, not because he
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: couldn't kill him, but because he's like, something's got to change.
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: We got to change strategies. We have to try something else.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: Maybe letting this guy defect because of the news will
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: do something.
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: You'd fight me, got one said, finally, doing up the
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: saddle and lifting the bags into place, tying them on.
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: Challenge snorted. The horse never did like carrying extra weight.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: You'd die if you thought it was necessary. If you attacked,
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: even if I killed you, it would raise a rucus.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: I'd never be able to explain why I killed the warder,
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: you could stop me, true, Sleet said, then why let
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: me go, Gowen said, rounding the gelding and taking the reins.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: He met those shadowed eyes and thought he caught the
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: faintest hint of a smile on the lips beneath them.
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: Perhaps I like to see men care, Sleet said. Perhaps
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: I hope you find a way to help end this.
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: Perhaps I am feeling lazy and sore, with a bruised
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: spirit from so many defeats. May you find what you seek,
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: young Trickand and with a rustle of the cloak, Sleet withdrew,
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: fading into the darkness of oncoming night. Gowen slung himself
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: into the saddle. There was only one place he could
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: think to go for help in rescuing Agwayne. With the
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: kick of the heels, he left or Lyn behind. That's
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: the read out.
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I like Sleet's logic. I like his laconic attitude
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: about it. He's great. I don't like Gowin, but I
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: really do like sup That is a popular opinion, and
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: I do think that there's a lot of evidence for
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: headcanon for Compulsion, but I don't know if I want
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: to buy it.
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: That's totally fair it's totally fair I am. I am
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: not forcing it onto anybody. I am just telling you
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: what I think.
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: But there's a good textual space for it.
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: However, if you don't buy into it, you are dead
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: to me. Just so you know.
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, good thing. I'm actually immortal.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: God damn it. I knew there was something going on.
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: How old are you?
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: So do you want to talk about cot Swayin and
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: her security system?
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah? So next we have a really short chapter with
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: the Georgie little in it, but we do get a
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: cool sound system, which is fun. So we are going
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: to now do chapter fourteen, A Box Opens, because we're
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: going with real literal titles at this point. The last
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: chapter was literally an offer for a threesome and a
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: departure for the rebel camp. Now we are doing A
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: Box Opens, by which we mean literally the box that
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: the security system is attached to that has the sad
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: bracelets like it is the most literal we could possibly
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: be today. And our symbol is the moon and stars
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: Cadswain hair ornaments. So this is one of the shadows
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: sold sore La said. The white haired wise ones circled
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: around the prisoner, looking thoughtfully at Simarag. Of course, Cadswain
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: had not expected fear from one such as Sorelia. The
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: Ayeal Woman was a rugged creature, like a statue that
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: had weathered storm after storm, patient before the winds. Among
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: the Ayele, this wise one was a particular specimen of strength.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: She had arrived at the manor house on they recently
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: coming with those who had brought Althora a report from
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: bandar Ebon. Katswain had anticipated finding many things among the
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: Ayel who followed randolphor fierce warriors, strange ways, honor and loyalty,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: inexperience with subtlety and politics. She had been right. One
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: thing she had certainly not expected to find, however, was
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: an equal, certainly not in a wise one who could
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: barely channel. And yet oddly that was how she regarded
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: the leathery faced Ayeal woman. Not that she trusted Sorella
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: the wise One had her own goals, and they might
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: not completely coincide with Catswain's. However, she did find Sorileia capable.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: And there were blessed few people in the world these
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: days who deserved that word. I love that attitude.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, let's be honest here, God Swayn is not
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: found an equal and Soreally she's found the superior.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't think there's much argument there.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: Godswayn, Like, wow, this person's my equal. I could really be,
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: you know, considered equal to this person. Meanwhile, Soria is
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: like another Ey said I she's maybe slightly better than
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: the other ones. Still kind of crappy.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's definitely Sorelia. She's like, oh wow, there's
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: a nice to die who I could actually give the
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: time of day, damn impressive. Didn't think any of you
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: were gonna marri at the time of day for me.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: But you you, kat Swain, You actually I will yeah,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: all right, Like it's yeah, kat Swain's arrogance knows no bounce.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: Also, the length of time that Sorilia has been successfully
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: dealing with Rand in the amount of time that Codswayne
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: has successfully been dealing with Rim, Like yeah, now.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: I mean sore Leia has at least the benefit of
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: being one of many with the wise ones.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: True, so you have little enforcements. But I mean what
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: you can't say cod Swain doesn't have other I sid Eye, but.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: I said, I are bad at working together as a team.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: The Wise ones actually understand the concept of teamwork. Like
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: Katswayne just knows how to order people around. The wise
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: ones actually know how to like diffuse responsibility and make
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: Rand's ire not land on any one of them too badly.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: So we're torturing.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're doing what would be considered torture by
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: like Geneva convention standards, right, like sleep deprivation and physically
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: uncomfortable postures are considered torture, but they're very mild by
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: fantasy medieval standards. Fantasy medieval torture is like all the
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: nasty shit and Game of Thrones and also everything the
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: Catholic Church has ever done to its own people.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: But like the breaking bones, the stretching the joints through
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: the fire.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: But no, they are just keeping her awake for two
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: days and keeping lights flashing in front of her eyes,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: which is bad. To be clear, this is not okay
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: in a war crime sense and a torture sense legally,
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: But like as far as what these people think of
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: as torture in the book, as that's whole delicate ideal
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: questioning conversation like this is not considered hardcore torture.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: There also is a certain amount of unrealism around what
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: you can ignore in your physical body in this series,
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: everything from ignoring the heat and the cold to entering
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: the void, to whatever Samarack is doing here, to whatever
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: Gwaine's doing when being spanked. Right, Like this idea that
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: you can tell what the idea will do when they
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: laugh at pain, Like the idea that you can ignore
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: a physical pain like that, to me, is at best
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: extremely rare in extreme circumstances for only certain people, and
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: they make it seem like a common, everyday thing that
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: you can just overcome and damn it, Jordan, I suffered
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: through a lot of pain because I thought I could
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: do that actually.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: Right right, yeah, Oh, Simrock mastered some trick to stave
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: off exhaustion.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: Like I don't, I don't know that that's that works.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: That's that's yeah, that's not It does feel like he's
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: sort of expanding on the trick to stave off heat
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: and cold.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: Do a door heat and cold, which, like, you know, sure,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: if we're gonna have one unrealistic thing, why not have
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: multiple unrealistic things bundled together? Like why not? But yeah,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: it's I don't buy it as a real thing, but
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: you know it's a. It's a scene. It's a set piece,
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: conversation piece for the women to circle around and talk about.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: I enjoy some rogs mocking of the iel.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So once we actually do let semarrog participate in
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: the scene, things get much more interesting. Like kat Swaine
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: and sore Lia being arrogant about each other's uh purviews
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: and whose fiefdom gets to be in charge of the
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: questioning whatever whatever? That boring. Once we get to Semarog
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: engaging being engaged with, that's interesting. And like sore Lea,
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: you know, obviously does the very very cool, awesome line
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: of disappointingly human.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: Yes, which is the truth.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: That's the critical insight, disappointingly human.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: And I don't like the way he writes it because
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: again it just it goes back to spanking, And I'm like, okay,
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: we really have to go back to spanking? Is the
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: way to prove to word that she's human? It doesn't
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: feel like it would be that effective, right, But I
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: like the insight, I just don't necessarily like the way
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: it's carried out in the end.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Now, the insight is good, it's the execution that
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: it leads a strange place. And I don't think the
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: AEO would have been any better about it than Kad's fan. Unfortunately,
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: their culture is definitely set up to go with the
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: spanking route as well.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: I would have liked to see her do dishes until
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: she broke.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that would have been way better.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: I think that would have been really effective way of
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: making her, you know, feel human of like having the
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: soapy hands and.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: Spahedy and hated having Sophie fingers with the wrinkled fingers. Right,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: she had a meltdown over her wrinkled fingers.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely, yeah, So that that I feel like would
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: be a better way or a more effective way then
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: just I feel like the reliance on spanking was not
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: my favorite.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, no, making her cook her own meals
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: and wash her own dishes, that would have been the
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: way to break. You just have to eat beans that
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: you made yourself. We could have still kept beans in
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: the scene even.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: You know what, you just you have to survive in
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: the city, Tarball on minimum wage.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: I have heard this as like, you know what, we
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: don't need to like put like these rich politicians who
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: are you know, fucking over our economy and our culture
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: in jail. We don't need to do that. We just
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: need to make them live in a one bedroom apartment
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: on minimum wage, working in you know, food service for
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: the rest of their lives, and they're not allowed to
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: make more than minimum wage or move into anything better.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: You're going to give them a bedroom studio apartment.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: Like the concept of just like, No, you need to
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: live like like the people that you think are doing
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: just fine and never be allowed to have upward mobility
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: just like them, instead of having your lifetime award fucking
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: pension of a bazillion dollars every five minutes.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: So all right, some rog's fun statements. I mean, she
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: just digs into the idea. She's like you, you betrayed
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: the way of the leaf, and you saw you used
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: to be such.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: A good little servant. She's so nasty and then what's
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: the lineup? How far do you think I would have
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: to push before one of you would kill a blacksmith
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: and dine on his flesh. Like the way that she
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: is mean and nasty and knowledgeable is just it's delicious.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: So apparently Jigsaw reborn the Saw movies.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: I am aware that they exist.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: Do you want to play a game? Yeah?
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: I literally was hearing a reference about them on a
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: podcast right before this recording started, like literally.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: You know, apparently there's more of a plot line there
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: than you'd think, although I think at some point they
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: do just make up random apprentices just to keep the
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: storyline going. But yeah, it's a whole thing about how
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: he kills people's people in life threatening situations for them
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: to realize what a relief it is to be alive
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: and you know, live better lives in the long run.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: That's why he tortures people.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: So it's a good thing.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: No, No, definitely not. But it go to summ wrong
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, right, this is just like, oh,
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: but I'm torturing people for the good of it.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: I do feel like she would probably make that argument
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: like I'm helping you, help me help you, and then
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: like that's why people will like, you know, stay trained forever.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: And yeah, no, I could totally see her being that
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: kind of person doing those monologues.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: Because wasn't she talking about how like, oh I would
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: heal them, and I was the best healer around it
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: just you know, hurt them a little bit more than
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: it necessarily needed to. And I feel like that was
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: a price that they were willing to pay for the
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: best healing around, you know, and like the pain was
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: totally unnecessary, it was just for her pleasure.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sawmurage.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: And then I think it's the debate between Soirillia and
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: cod Swain where Sorelia says keeping her alive is like
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: keeping a snapwood black lance is a pet, right, She's
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: sort of bringing up the danger, and then cod Swain
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: responds to with her, there'll be a fight at the
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: last battle, and each weave we learn is one few
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: where they can use to surprise us, and sort of
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: the way that echoes the debate around keeping Magedion right,
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: and how like it was the same thing of like, yes,
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: this is an evil person, but we have the last
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: battle to fight, and we are walking in ignorant against
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: people who are three thousand years old and have weaves
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: from the age of legends, and everything we can learn
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: from them is going to make a difference in this fight,
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: and maybe one fighter is worth the risk, no matter
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: how bad that fighter is.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: It's an interesting thing to see that reiterated with women
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: who are more experienced and coming from a different place
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: than our supergirls. But I would ask if they learned
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: a single thing from Samarag. They don't get any moves
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: from her, they don't get any information from her. The
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: argument worked with mogeddi In because they actually did get
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: stuff out of her, But at this point, with this
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: forsaken I'm with sore Lia, like it might have made
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: sense with mgeddi In maybe, but this is this is
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: juggling with too many chainsaws. I mean, yes, but they
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: never get anything from her. They never did, because she's
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: anything from her.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: If Mulgeineia had been freed by shot Aharan very early
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: on and killed the two girls, we would have been like,
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: oh see, it didn't make any sense.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: I think it's questionable if it did make sense for
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: them to keep her. They didn't learn that much. They
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: learned how to do compulsion, but Agwain's the one that
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: figured out traveling, So like, I questioned if keeping o'geddion
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: alive was good call, even the way it did turn out.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm a Sorelia. Kill a bitch, slit her
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: throat and watch the blood drain onto the sand, like
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: don't like you got a double triple, quadruple tap Semarag.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: However, that wouldn't even really kill her. She'd just come back.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's why you gotta bail fire her.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Cad Swayne is this like makes this point that
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: Dathor won't tell me or can't tell me how many
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: forsaken or dead. And it's a good point because I
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: think some of them are coming back. And I think
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: al Thor is realizing that and he's like, yeah, I
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: definitely killed a couple of them. I just don't know
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: if they're still dead anymore. Yeah.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: I just I feel like it's semarog. You just shouldn't
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: risk it. You should just bail fire her and just
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: take her off the board.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm there with you.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: But again, sore Leia is the superior to kat Swain
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: because she is correct in this case.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, exactly exactly. They just don't know what we know,
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: That's all I'm saying, and that.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: Is a real personal failure on their part. They should do.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: They should read these books.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, have they not read these books? Yeah? So Sorelia
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: asks to see the thing, and on the way there,
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: she thinks about controlling anger. When you could control a
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: person's anger, you could control their other emotions as well.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: That was why she had focused so hard on teaching
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: Althora to reign in his temper. She's so close and
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: so far. Displaying temper is not the same thing as
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: having a temper, being able to control your outward display
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: of temper means nothing about your internal state whatsoever. She's
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: all about appearances and not about the reality. But she's
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: so close, she's so close, she's so close.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: Well you know it's okay, she's close enough that she
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: stumbles on the answer by accident, which is get damn involved, right.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: Right, And she's right, you know that he's not ready
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: for the last battle and all that. Like she's she's
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: so close, and it's like, even with this interaction with
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: Sammara gets like she's she's just fumbling in the dark,
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: and it's like it's right there, it's right there. You're
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: so close. Summer against it being more helpful than Katswain, Like,
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: ultimately it's very frustrating, but ultimately she does decide that
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: she's going to share information with sore Leia, share access
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: to the sad bracelets with sore Leia, because Sorelia is
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: the closest thing she's got to an ally that's confident.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: So yeah, they go into her room and we get
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: to talk about her security system weave.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: Which she's innovated kind of. I mean it's an inverted
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: weave that will grab an intruder.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: And also make a big loud noise and flashing lights.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess, I guess. It's an alarm system
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: that you put on. It's like alarm system and spray
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: phone basically.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: Basically, yeah, yeah, it's like a net that drops down
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: and that captures you, you know.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: And that's what you're using to protect the most viable
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: items you have.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: Okay, Look, she's the smartest ize that I ever, So
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: anything she does should be considered to be the most
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: found innovation ever.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: I will say it's a very silly trap, but I
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: do like the fact that she actually innovates with the power.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: Like I feel like this is Verry Sanderson fourth wall
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: breaking being like I can't believe Robert Jordan made up
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: three spells and just left it at that for all
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: these books. Let me tell you what I've been thinking
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: about in my writing career. I got all these cool
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: innovations that we could do with the power.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: It's better than JK. Rowling, who thought of the killing
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: curse and disarming and used those two exclusively. Truly, those
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: books are so shallow because like, once you have a
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: killing curse, what's the point of like throwing a fireball
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: if you can just point at someone and tell them
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: they're dead.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's a Weegal and the Wall. It's just
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: so much about the world building of that entire world
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: that just falls apart at the tiniest push.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: It really is so bad.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: It's fine for kids who haven't been exposed to good
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: writing yet, but it really is just like the trappings
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: of a good story just sort of slapped together. Like
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: I got a lot out of it as a kish,
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: but like I just I have reread them as an
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: adult and it's like, Wow, there's just so much more
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: fluff and air instead of world building than I thought.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: Like, the characters are fun. I like the character building, right,
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: I care very much about Harry and Hermione and Ron
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: as I'm reading the books. But the plot holes and
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: the stereotypes and the.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah yeah, yeah, all right, So in the box,
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: what's in the box? In the box, we have the
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: male show it on call Access Key and the sad.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: Bracelets female one melted during the cleansing, which is why
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: all the people on tremaking are dying because they killed themselves.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: Right, they're all dead now, and surely it doesn't really
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: care about the mail. Show it on call because that's
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: not relevant. But you know Rand will retrieve it later.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: So and other than like not giving it to one
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: of the mail forsaken.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: Right, like which Shine to her On could have done, Yeah,
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: he just.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: Leaves it there. He doesn't steal it. He only steals
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: the collar.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like, Rand can have that, that'll be fine,
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: Which is.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: Weird because it appears to have been copied. Right, That's
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: the thing I think I missed on my first couple
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: reads throughs because this once he destroys this collar, we
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: never really hear about the mail Adam again, so I
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: kind of thought this was the one, the original, the only,
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: But no, he's saying that the sean Chan have copied
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: it and have multiples. They have a bunch in a warehouse.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because when the attack from Samarak got foiled initially
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: they found a whole bag full of the things. She
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: was ready to take on multiple osham on if necessary.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, so yeah, this is one of those samples.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: I don't know what happens to all the other ones.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: Oh no, she says. She says in here that she
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: sent the others to I wanted to ask you about this.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: H whoa fuck.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, some acquaintances of mine, I said I who have
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: retired from the world are testing them to try to
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: discover their weaknesses. Those women also have calendar, so yeah,
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: they show the other ones out there.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: Yep they what what the fuck? Sanderson? Who the fuck
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: are these? Sorry? I did so much research this morning
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: looking for who these two people are. Nothing found nothing,
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: zero evidence.
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, Adalias and van Deen two point zero, but like
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: never filled in right, Like, I'm.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: Like, Adelias and Vandeen are dead. I'm sorry, Well, who
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: are you sending these two what older retired women? Could
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: you just did you just think? I bet you wrote
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: Adalius and Vanden in there. And then someone in the
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: editing was like, they're dead. You can't use them, and
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: he was like, fine, two old women.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: Some women who have somehow decided not to engage all
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: the way this deep into the plot.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: Like right right, I'm just what the fuck I am?
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: That line made me And then and and frankly, Rand
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: just shows up with Calendor in I think chapter fifty
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: one or something like that. Like he just has it again. Right,
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: There's no mention that I could find of him going
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: to retrieve it, of Katswain going to retrieve it. Nothing
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: like that, nothing like that.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: It just appears.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, bottles ooh, angry, angry plothole, big plothole.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: I like that Sorilia hates the sad bracelets so much
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: that creation of these abominations alone should warrant a blood feud.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: It's a little rich coming from the Ieal, who are
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: the only people who deal in like slavers, in being
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: slavers at all. It's a little little rich coming from them.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: But still she's right that this kind of a controlling
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: device should warrant a blood feud, and you should not
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: make peace with them, no matter what. She's right. She's
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: upset that Rand wants to make peace with them, and
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: it's like join the club sore Lea. We're all mad
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: at Rand about that. Yeah, and uh yeah, Katswain says
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: she has one on site despite how dangerous it is,
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: because she wants to mess around with it and test
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: it and be all sciency with it and nothing could
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: possibly go wrong because she's kadswayn bloody Malidron and nothing
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: like a weird hand of Satan could ever get in
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: the way of her carefully laid plans. Solia is doubtful
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: but allows it to pass, and that is bad for
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: all of us, especially men.
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: And meanwhile, Rand's like, yeah, you can't use it on anybody,
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: so you can't test it. So there's really no point now.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: So we're going to keep this adom bomb that we
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: can't test around for testing.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good Yeah, she keep two. She keep
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: two different atom bombs in the same house, neither of
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: which we can do anything effectively with. But we shouldn't
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: get rid of them.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: M mmmmmm, definitely not.
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I got the readout, so that's yeah, that's it. Okay.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: One of the first things Katswayn had done after capturing
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: this female Adam was put one on and to practice
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: ways to escape from it. She'd done so under carefully
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: controlled circumstances, of course, with women she trusted to help
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: her escape that eventually had to do that. Kat's had
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: been able to discover no way out on her own.
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: But if your enemy was planning to do something to you,
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: you had to discover how to counter it, even if
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: that meant leashing yourself. Al Thor couldn't see this. When
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: she asked, he simply muttered about that bloody box and
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: being beaten. We have to do something about that man,
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: sore Lea said, meeting Kad Swayne's eyes. He has grown
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: worse since we last met, he has, Kat Swayin said,
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: he's surprisingly accomplished at ignoring my training. Then let us discuss,
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: sri Lea said, pulling over a stool. A plan must
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: be arranged for the good of all, For the good
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: of all, kat Swain agreed, al Thor himself most of all,
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: And I'm assuming by that they need the plan to
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: bring Tam. Ultimately, that's what's the plan is going to be.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: I believe it does. Yeah, I believe it does, because
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: there's a whole thing where she like sends someone on
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: a quest to find and sends me on a quest
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: to find paren so that she can get Tam here.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: But yeah, naive, Okay, that's right, that's right. Yeah, But yeah,
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: that's all I had for that chapter.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a very short chapter. I'm glad we
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: bundled it with the prior one because it definitely was
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: not enough on its own.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: No, and neither one really was either one really was no,
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: and I made the first one much longer with my
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: baseless speculation.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, we got to get the run time up somehow.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: People complain if we give them less than an hour,
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: they really do.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And next week we will be doing a triple
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: header because that's the state of affairs. So enjoy that
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: next week everyone, That'll be fun.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: We're throwing back to the old school, getting through multiple
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: chapters a day. Well, in these these chapters are shorter
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: and there are more of them, right, So, you know,
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: this book has over fifty chapters. The last few books
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: we've done have closer to thirty two, thirty five, thirty seven.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: Right, So I got some chunky boys coming up, you.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: Know, with the same page county. Instead of having POV switches,
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: I feel like in this book they have chapter switches occasionally,
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: so we're just bundling them together in a way that
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: makes more sense to us. I want to talk a
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: little bit about what's going on in my life, because
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: I don't remember how much I've told you guys, because
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: time has passed in weird leaps and fits and jumps
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: for me. In the last two months or so.
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: It's been two weeks since we last recorded. We did
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: take a week of break so that you could move,
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: so timestamp everything to the chaos of moving right right.
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: So basically moving happened last week, technically a little more
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: than almost two weeks ago. And so I've just today
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: this morning finished probably moving the last thing out of
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: the old apartment. It is now officially empty. I have
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: someone coming to clean it because I just don't have
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: the energy. I'm old, and it was relatively affordable. So
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: I'm out of there. I'm moving into the new place.
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: You are hearing me from the new I'm going to
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: put it in air quotes studio. My new home that
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: I own, which I'm very excited about and living in,
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: has a walk in closet in the office, and so
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: I have turned that into a just recording space with
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: a real desk out in the actual room. But that
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: really makes it nice because then I can customize it
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: and hopefully make the sound as good as I can,
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: and just you know, have a different space for recording
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: than for doing everything else, so you know that, and
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: it just gives me a lot of opportunities to use
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: the office for other things, depending on how life changes.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: No congratulations, I'm going into the closet. It's a great
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: place for podcasts.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: Thank you. You know, it took me a lot of work.
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: I've been out of the closet for a while. I
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: was in the basement for a bit that was unfinished,
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: right right, And so now here we are, yeah, in
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: the closet again, which is you know, kind of appropriate
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: for what's going on right now.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: Nope, nope, nope, nope. Don't you be complying in advance?
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: Oh I envy you having a walking closet though, because
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: I just have the regular closet, and I am the
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: recording setup is in the closet, but I am not
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: in the closet. I am in the pointed into the closet.
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 2: I envy you having the entire I can actually I.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: Can't be in the chair and shut the door, but
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: I can stand up, push the chair in and open
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: the door.
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: So flip the hinges on it.
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we have two walking closets, which is nice
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: because then the closet in the bedroom can actually hold
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: both of our wardrobes.
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: M m, yeah, my other walking closet. The problem with
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: it is it points directly at Brandon's workstation, like it
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 2: shares the thinnest interior wall. There's like the big walking
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: closet in our bedroom, and then there's the other one
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: of the little bedroom, which would be perfect, but it's
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: like as close to his computer as I could possibly get. No,
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: I can't do that, but yeah, I'm super glad for
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: your move now that I think about it.
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: There were two unfinished basements that I recorded in. Anyway,
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: moving on, Hey, I mean, if it's good enough for
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: Michael and Kate Redding, you know, a basement's good enough
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: for me to record in.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: For sure, it's true, it's true.
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: But yeah, now I'm up on the third floor, which
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: puts me. I'm inside with walls on all around me,
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: so it's very hard for noise to get in here.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: External noise just should be minimized. A radio is gonna
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: let me know how bad the echo is on the recording,
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: because I am in a small room.
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: You sent me that little test recording and it sounded great.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: I didn't hear any room echo at all, like.
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: Good, and I hung up a few more blankets since then,
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: so hopefully we're in good shape. But yeah, we've got
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: an entryway, we've got a garage, we have a kitchen
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: with great appliances. I'm blown away by the quality of
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: the appliances. They're twenty years old and they're better than
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: anything I've ever used. Gas fireplace, gas stove, gas heat,
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: gas water. Yeah, everything's as far as I can tell.
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty pretty excited to be in this place, right, Like,
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: I don't know what to tell every how do you?
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: How do you share the excitement of like, yeah, I'm at.
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: Home now, right, Like you were telling me earlier that
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 2: you have appliances that work and have modern features, which
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 2: is apparently an upgrade, a huge upgrade setting but you
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: know happy also, right, Yeah, and and.
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: And space that's just a little bit bigger and private. Right.
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: We used to share this garage with this you know,
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: old lady who kept leaving the door open so everyone
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: had access to our stuff, not having an I went
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: over to clean up today and I had one piece
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: of furniture out on the curb for five minutes while
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: I was loading it into my car, and I went
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: inside to grab something and one of the neighbors comes
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: by knocking to be like, whose is this and can
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: you get it off the curb? But I'm just like,
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad I'm out. I'm so glad I'm out
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: from the constant harassment that has been living with an HOA.
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: Really happy for you that you're out and settled into well,
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: settling into a new place.
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, it's still mostly you know, there's a fair
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: amount of boxes to go through, but selling a radio.
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: Everything that we need is unpacked. Right. We are we
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: are in that place where we can live in the
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: house again. It's definitely not decorated, and there's still a
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: lot of stuff that needs to be sorted through and
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: gone through, but we are no longer on vacation in
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: our own house, which it has been for the last Yeah.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: Probably you know, for like a month, right, because you
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: start packing well before the move, and we went on
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: our honeymoon in that period of time, and we got
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: back from the honeymoon and we both got so sick.
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, we got the flu sick, right, the batty
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: aches down for two weeks until we're trying to pack.
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: We're super sick. Travis the asshole drops off a new
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: puppy that is totally untrained's he's doing amazing now, he's
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: being such a good boy. But yeah, it's no I
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: love Travis, but and I love this dog. He's such
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: a good dog. But for that first week he was not.
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: Uh he was definitely not. And uh yeah, it just
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: it it was overwhelming. And I don't think I can't
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: remember the last time I had that much coming at
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: me in that short period of time. You know where
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: they say right after you know, some other major life events. Right,
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: So that's a lot.
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 2: But you're settling down, You're settling down. The house is good,
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: the dog is good, the flu is gone.
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: The flu is gone. The cat's healthy again. Oh my god.
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: That was the other thing. We had take the cat
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: to the emergency room. The cat's are fine, the cat
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: is doing fantastic, you know, complaining about not being fed
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: in He had a fever of unknown origin, so that
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: we spent way too much money testing him, trying to
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: figure out what was going on for them to come
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: back with buckus.
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 2: But he came through somehow away.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: With antibiotics seemed to immediately help. So he got antibiotics.
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: You know, who knows if he had a cut that
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: we didn't find, or you know something, you know, I
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: don't know. Cat's getting faild. He may have come in
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: contact with another cat. He's an outdoor cat everyone why
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: hear criticism for that because of this sort of thing,
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: but he does not do well inside all day.
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: So domesticated cats are a conundrum. I love them, but
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: they are a conundrum.
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: They are a conundrum. Also, new internet, right, so I'm
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: in a new place with new internet. So if things
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: get spotty. I noticed my upload speed is not very good.
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: I'm working to fix that. Comcast gave me a high
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: download speed and a low upload speed, and I need
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: to balance those a little bit better if I'm going
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: to be doing this. So if I do skip out
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: a little bit, I apologize.
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 2: Yay for local recording.
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah yea for local recording because that doesn't matter for
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: the internet skips.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: As far as anything else. Happy the holiday that marks
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: the very beginning of spring, the lambing time. We are
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 2: recording this on that day. Basically we're halfway to halfway
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: between Solstice and equinox, right, It's like we're getting there.
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 2: We're getting their equinoxes only as far away as sot now,
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 2: so that's nice. Oh yeah. Also, it's February, so I'm
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: starting up the support group again. I was off for
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: two weeks because family stuff, But back to doing support
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 2: group on Thursday for weirdos who like wheel the time.
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: Oh god, so uh side note, I tipped my movers
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: right because they helped me move the furniture up the stairs,
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: like hard, hard work. Give them a good tip. I
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: think I don't know what a good tip is anymore.
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: My coworker was like, oh, yeah, well I had movers.
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: I didn't tip them. They seem to offend it, and
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, I tipped because I'm not a
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: fucking monster like move Like, there's not very many things
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: I feel like you have to tip on right, but
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: like movers, man, that is the hardest thing anyone will
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: ever do for you, give them a tip. Yeah.
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 2: I have no idea what people are supposed to tip
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 2: for or not. It seems like the most random, fucking
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: scattershot things don't get tipped for and do get tipped for. Like,
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: I don't understand it. I think people should get paid
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: better and I shouldn't have to think about it.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: I don't think I should have totally. I mean, yes,
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: that's that's the autism talking, but uh yeah, for sure,
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: But I mean legitimately, Like, you know, these were three
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: young guys who were like, work their ass off to
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: get my ship up two flights of stairs. Like, I
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: don't know. I'm sure I paid the company more than
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 1: enough to pay them, but I'm sure they're not getting
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: paid enough. So I tipped.
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean in this in this world, it's
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 2: better too than not, for sure. But yeah, it's one
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 2: of those social conventions I find very anxiety and toothing.
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's awful. I had like cash ready, and I
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: had prepped for it and thought about it ahead of
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: time time, and I still yeah, absolutely, and I still
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: like kept fingering the cash in my pocket for the
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: moment when he was going to ask so I could
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: pull it out. And then it was just it was awful.
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: It was awful. I hate it, absolutely hate it. But
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean I'm not going to do it every time,
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: you know. And also I've worked for tips for too
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: long not to just like I'm in the tipping culture, right,
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: That's kind of how they get you, right is, once
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: you work for tips, it's really hard to justify not tipping,
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: because in your head, anyone who didn't tip was a
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: fucking bastard, right, Like, because that's what you live on,
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: that's your lifestyle, that's your you know, not that it's fair,
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: but that is what prevents you from living on minimum
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: wage and not surviving, you know, on almost no money.
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: And so when people don't tip, it feels like they're
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: taking money out of your pocket, even though I understand
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: that they're not, that they're not legally required to do
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 1: so it's so hard to get out of that mentality
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: because whatever they don't tip is the money that you
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: don't get.
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: I just wouldn't assume that movers and food service were
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 2: the same. I just like what I have even thought
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: of that, Like I knew to tip my tattoo artist
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: and my piercers, like I need that. But again, my
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 2: parents both were tattooed and pierced, so I knew that
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 2: that was the convention.
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: And again I think I think the reason I knew
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: to tip the movers is because I when I was
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: between jobs, I got a tempt job as a mover,
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: and I spent two days as a mover and I
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: got tips both times. And that was huge in my life, right,
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: that was a huge moment when I actually, like really
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: needed the money and the extra you know, fifty bucks
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: or a hundred bucks. I don't remember exactly what it ended.
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: Up being was like more money than I thought I
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: was gonna get, right and then and then just yeah,
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: living in a place and then being in food service
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: for so long where I got a portion of the tips,
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: right like I you know, most nights, not everybody tipped,
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: but on the people who didn't tip kind of average
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: out with the people who overtipped. And so, you know,
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: nineteen to twenty percent was pretty much what you expected
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: to get on top of pay, and that got distributed
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: up between everybody who worked there, and that made it
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: so it was the people who worked there could continue
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: to work there, right like, because no one could work
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: food service on minimum wage if that's all I got,
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: because physically it's so hard on your body. It's very
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: hard to do for more than for full time anyway,
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: never mind, I can go into it for for hours.
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 2: Say capitalism, and capitalism's awful.
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: A Capitalism's awful, Like I hate money. The work, the
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: work that's being done is more than worthwhile for someone
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: to be paid a living wage and do well, right Like,
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: There's more than enough money coming into restaurants to do that.
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: But restaurants jack their prices up to cover the living wage.
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: They have a competitive disadvantage, and like the people have
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: done this experiment where they've gone to living wage and said,
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: you know, please do not tip, and people stop going
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: because the prices are higher.
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 2: Like literally, when I see a restaurant that does that,
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 2: I make a point of going there more often because
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 2: I fucking appreciate it so goddamn much. I fucking hate
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 2: everyone and everything.
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: So it has to be a law that's passed universally
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 1: in order for people to convert.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 2: And you do know the history of tipping is entirely
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: based in like slavery.
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: Right, absolutely, one hundred percent. I mean, you know at
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: this point that the history of everything in the United
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: States is like what I'm learning is anything that was
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: that that is a public good in any other country
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: that we don't have, was taken away because we didn't
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: want to get but to everybody, because giving it to
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: everybody would mean giving it to everybody.
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 2: Even the people that we did chattel slavery on exactly exactly. Yeah,
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 2: I hate everyone and everything. Can we please go back
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 2: to the book?
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: Yes? Please.
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to The Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 2: Please rate and review us on your podcast app, and
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 2: consider supporting us on Patreon for ad free episodes. Watt
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 2: Spoilers is a production of Fox and Raven Media. For
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 2: more podcasts from Fox and Raven Media, visit our website
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 2: at foxendravenmedia dot com.