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What I've Learnt - Jonah Platt · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: As a surreal time in history with confidence sources of rage towards Jews enveloping so many Western countries, a New York Meryl race turning into a global media war, with New York home to one of the biggest Jewish populations in the world.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yet the biggest series in streaming right now is nobody wants this about an Orthodox rabbi falling in love with a non-Jewish woman.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's as if the world has gone a little mad, quite literally.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm thrilled to have Jonah Platt, Broadway actor, singer, musician, writer, producer, and director, composer and podcaster, known for his very popular podcast Being Jewish with Jonah Platt.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: He seems like the perfect guest to join me and explore this extraordinary time in Jewish and global history.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: So, Jonah Platt, I'd like to welcome you to the What I've Learned podcast.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Thrilled to have you join us all the way from LA.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Thrilled to be here.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: I love, love my my Aussie brothers and sisters.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, we're pretty special over here, but you're pretty special over there too.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: And you've been doing some amazing work, very interested.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: And as a fellow podcaster, I'm thrilled to talk all things, podcasting, but also just the notion of storytelling, engaging, communicating.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's what we both love and care about.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm interested.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: Let's let's we we've given a little bit of background about who you are, where you come from, but maybe you can take us on a little journey about how growing up Hollywood shaped you.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, you have quite an interesting history.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: Can you give our listeners a little bit of background and context?
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh honestly, uh, you know, the the Hollywood part of my background is is so much it's so much less influential than you might think.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh my parents are very grounded people.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: My mother is from Kansas, my dad's from Baltimore, and we were raised much more, you know, in a Jewish, grounded, down-to-earth sort of vibe than any sort of Hollywood vibe.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: What was unique was my parents' love of the performing arts, uh, specifically musical theaters and of course film.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, obviously I had exposure to great storytelling and the business side of the of the Hollywood industry, uh, as, you know, that's dad's business.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it was the it was very much dad's business in the way.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: If my dad was a plumber, like knowing a bit about plumbing would have been, you know, also in in the water.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I still would have loved the arts and musicals and all that because that was just my parents' great passion.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: They took us all the time to the theater, and that's what we listened to in the car.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's, you know, that was every kid in my family's after-school activity was putting on musicals.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we were always putting on shows in the backyard and with our cousins when they were in town.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I was always looking for ways to turn my school projects into performances.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like if instead of writing a report, I could make a show out of it and direct it and write it and be in it, uh, I would always do that.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: So it's definitely like more so it's just sort of in the water at the plat house more than anything, was is is the biggest impact.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, there were some fun perks along the way as a kid.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like I got to go to the The Lion King premiere, which was really fun.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I remember going to the Aladdin premiere also.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: And also both you and your brother have been quite involved and very involved, in fact, in both acting, musicals, and producing.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I can see that that has shaped you because obviously, as you say, I suppose you have a real resonance about the power of the arts to transform and to engage people in a quite a unique way.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and no.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm I'm sort of cynical when it comes to uh the that aspect of the arts in in some ways.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think, how do I want to say this?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um yes, it can definitely be transformative.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, there are a lot of people who put a lot of stock in great storytelling.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's really what it's about.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's about storytelling.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: And when storytelling connects with folks, whatever, whatever form that takes, whether it's something on stage, whether it's a book, whether it's a film, uh, when you are captivated by characters in a story and find yourself in them or find something to learn from them, that can certainly be transformative.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the cynical part comes, I don't know that you know that art has the power to change the world, as some might suggest.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, nor do I believe that people who say that's, you know, they're into the arts because they want to change the world.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't really buy that.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but um I I do think it can be very powerful and moving, of course.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm interested that cynical side, it maybe it comes because you've had an insider perspective and you understand there are it can attract lots of great creatives, but it can also attract, I suppose, some complex, complex.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: And as we know, recently the arts has been a hotbed on many fronts.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but that's another another lens.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: But does that come from sort of seeing the the backstage in Verticoma's view?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, probably.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean, I would say certainly, you know, I having been an actor, a writer, worked in television, uh, film, Broadway, I've I've kind of met and seen all kinds of people at all kinds of levels and in all kinds of environments.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, 90% of people, other than the real sort of indie avant-garde, in it for the art period, like to tell a have a message, other than those sort of very political, message-driven folks, everybody else is sort of in it because it's something they like to do.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they like being a writer, they like people laughing at their jokes, they like being on a stage, they like uh people clapping for them.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, all of that stuff.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: And if there's a wonderful byproduct of that, which is, you know, engagement with an audience and people feeling something emotionally because of your work, like that's part of it.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that's brilliant and amazing and has great value.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I just, you know, that's not why most people get into this business.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: They get into it because they like doing it.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: And is that I'm assuming that's you.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: You like doing whatever you've been doing.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: You it does it fill your cup?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: No, the entertainment side does not fill my cup the way the work I'm doing now has filled my cup.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I think probably that's what brings it into even more stark relief, is I have a little bit of a before and after of, and again, like I don't want to sound like I'm taking down all people who work in the arts, because again, like some people have, you know, real gifts that should be shared with the world, and this is what they were put on the earth to do.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: And there's there is great value in art and entertainment and escapism and uh inspiration and all of these things.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: But at the end of the day, a lot of these jobs, you you're in it for yourself.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: And uh there are a lot of other jobs on planet earth where you're in it for other people.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, Hollywood and entertainment is generally not one of those jobs.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: I find that really interesting because, and we it will come to your podcast, which obviously is a major platform.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: And and as a podcaster, I relate to that notion.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: I suppose it is the most extraordinary experience to be part of something where you feel like you're engaging and changing the conversation or exploring the conversation, which is something you do a lot.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: But we'll come to that in a minute.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: I want to talk to you about your heritage and your history, which is obviously a big backdrop for your platform because you, as you said, you grew up with a lot of strong Jewish family values, a sense of heritage, history, and being part of a trajectory, which I relate to a lot as well.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: That notion that we are part of a trajectory or a it's not all about ourselves, it's actually about being part of something bigger.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: Talk to me about your background and how that that filled your uh, I suppose the backdrop for your podcast and also for the journey you're on now.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'd say journey really is the operative word because where I am now is definitely not where I started.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I don't think as a kid growing up, you know, the being that link in that chain and how important that is was as present for me.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: I certainly loved the traditions of being Jewish, the family aspect, the values and high moral ideals, the celebrations, the rituals, yeah.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: The rituals and and and for me was always the uh the way my family treated was like so much of it was about family.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, like all of my childhood and adolescent memories around Jewish stuff are with family, grandparents, cousins, friends, just like community.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, really that that beautiful, warm, fuzzy familial vibe, uh, which is is is a beautiful thing.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and and definitely because of the multi-generational aspect of it, there definitely was a sense of being a part of something bigger.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: But it's only really as an adult that I've really examined what does that mean, actually, like historically in the world we're in today, to be part of that single tribe that's linked thousands of years into the past, and the responsibility that comes with carrying that tribe forward.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, well, I think you wouldn't be alone in that experience.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think that globally everyone's feeling that sense of community and feeling a responsibility beyond, I think, um, oneself, which is what you're referring to.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: And as we speak, we're on the eve of the Sabbath here.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's you know, Shabbat here in uh Australia.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's very uh pivotal and potent that we're talking on this day because I think we're all feeling this deep resonance that is obviously impacted by what's happening globally.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: For you, you know, a pivotal moment and life-changing moment in 23 was after the devastating Hamas attacks in Israel.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think we're all very shaken.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: Be they be you Jewish or not Jewish, everybody uh has been impacted in some form.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you saw, as did I and many people, the very polarized, complex conversations around what had happened.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: For you, you saw also, as I read, that the media, and we've all seen this, has been quite, shall we say, broad and complex and actually quite um distressing at times to watch.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: Tell us how you came to the decision, and one I might say is quite a brave decision to start your podcast, Being Jewish with Jonah Platt, because it's a very strong definitive statement.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: And you come with a very clear lens in which you interview many people.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: Mine, what I've learned is a it's not a Jewish platform, it's a broad platform, but I interview people along the way, some of whom are Jewish, some of who've not.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's a totally different context.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's a what I've learnt, right?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: Which is so what I'd like to know is what made you take the brave step, which I think is very courageous and very um impressive, to come with such a strong lens.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: How did you come to that could that sort of choice?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I for I have to say, and this is not you know faux humility or anything, it really at no point has felt to me like a brave choice.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: It really hasn't, genuinely.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it feels so natural, just like, well, okay, of course this is what I would do, you know.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I never once really at any point was like something bad might happen, or oh, I'm afraid to do this.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: So this is like like it that never even crossed my mind, truly.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was what happened was October 7th happened, and I've I've already been working in the Jewish advocacy space for a number of years.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: And October 7th happened, and I just found very organically that was all I wanted to put my energy into.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: It felt like, you know, this is the moment of my lifetime where there is, you know, uh leadership needed and distress and pain and confusion, and you know, we're under assault in all these different ways, and uh, we need to be strong and calm and proactive in all these different ways.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so the the podcast really was just a natural extension of that of me going, okay, I've been spending all this time on social media.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, in the days after October 7th, I was doing hours-long QA's, I was doing all kinds of explainer videos, uh, I was meeting in real life with people trying to put out fires, trying to problem solve, meeting with hostage families, just really day in and day out, super involved.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: And after a couple months of that, it was I wanted to expand on that.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: And a podcast just felt like the natural way to do that, where I could speak at length about stuff I was having to sort of bite-size speak about in videos online.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I could model all of the things that are important to me within my Jewish advocacy, which are the inclusivity and diversity of Judaism and the way that there is no one right way to be Jewish, and wanting to expose that both for the Jewish community itself, which can you know be victim to so much infighting and exclusivity, and to non-Jews who do not know who or what Jews really are.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to normalize Jews who are not rabbis, who are not, you know, older having conversations and that not being lame or uncomfortable or controversial or nerdy or only religious or Torah-based, but that we could discuss the issues that the average American or Western Jew in 2025 is thinking about or feeling.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I also wanted to create a safe space for a lot of these prominent Jews and allies to who you don't get to hear from a lot because it's scary get a great forum to go deep on this stuff.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to give them a place to go deep on this stuff.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's really great.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I've listened, I mean, some of it's extraordinary, and I mean it's interesting because, for example, I interviewed Rachel Goldberg, Pollen, when tragically just before her son tragically passed, and it was honestly one of the most gut-wrenching interviews and had a lot of responses on the podcast from Jewish and non-Jewish.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I've I've had a little of that resonance that you're describing because, in a way, what why we call while I call we reflect as you being brave is because it does take an element, and I know you're humble, but at the same time, it does take an element of courage in this climate.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: And and to be honest, it's it's a wonderful um platform, but there are people who um struggle.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: I know we've got some very strong uh advocates in Australia who have very prominent social media who have been actually targeted and tapped and and and some of them are just extraordinary.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: They've just stayed on the path, and you've done the same.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: Have you experienced much pushback?
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: And if so, how has that played out for you?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, uh it's an occupational hazard a little bit, right?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: Just getting getting smacked on social media, you know, in the but it's thank God for me up to this point, you know, it's been emails or notes in my website or DMs or comments on Instagram, uh comments on YouTube, stuff like that from strangers on the internet.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I think once you push past that initial onslaught, sort of the first time you get it, some people get it one time and they're like, oh my God, that was horrible.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm never going back there.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, once you push past it once, then it starts to just not bother you the same way.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, you know, I'm always trying to use that stuff as learning opportunities for myself of, you know, okay, what who am I dealing with?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what are people thinking?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: What's the stuff I'm hearing a lot of?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Who's it coming from?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what can I extrapolate from what I'm receiving to better enrich my understanding of the moment and who we're dealing with and where people are at?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I but by far, and I've said this many times, like the worst hate I get that I hate the most is the hate I get from Jews.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like that that actually bothers me.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: But the the hate from sort of non-Jewish.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, what's the nature of that?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: What what are you criticized for for not for I mean it's just obviously it's almost always political in nature?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Rush.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: So like I'll get crap from Jews on the right for being too on the left.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'll get crap from Jews on the left for being too far on the right, which lets me know I'm like doing a good job of of being in the middle of, you know, and balanced.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and that's really it, you know, it's it's generally over politics or uh yeah, like identity politics, also we can count under there.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, that that's generally where I get it the most.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so your inner strength is that you have a conviction of trying to represent the middle position and to give opportunity for various platforms.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: Is that correct?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: Is that where you find it?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, it's yeah, it's it's not so much that I like I set out to be the middle, I set out to be as objective as I possibly can be.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I really try to call it down as I see it.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: And if that means, you know, team A, I like the first three things you did and I don't like the fourth thing, I'll say that.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: And team B, if I don't like the first four things you did, but I like the fifth thing, I'll say that.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: And some people just like don't know how to deal with that.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: They want me to like pick a team, and once I cross a line against that team, I'm the bad guy.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I just don't want to be really forced into a polarized choice that is not actually a choice I need to make, except for the social pressure to make one.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so for you, is um what has been, I suppose, some of the lessons that have come through this process?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned that you've learned a lot and you've opened your mind to a lot.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: What are some of the things that you have learned?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: I've learned so much about so many things.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, not just through the podcasting.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, there's so many layers, right?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, like I've learned so much from my guests.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: I've had some really smart, interesting, experienced people.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'm I'm up to episode 47.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and and also through my mencious series, did another like 20.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I've I've done like 60-something interviews uh of really amazing people, and a lot of them have taught me a lot about a lot of different things.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I've learned so much from my audience, uh, especially on social media.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I hear from people, all kinds of people.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: I hear from non-Jews, I hear from Jews, I hear from Orthodox, I hear from just converted, I hear from people all over the world, uh, old, young.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I I just I am learning a lot about the moment we're in and about the people who are alive with me on this earth and where they're at and how people are thinking and feeling about these issues.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: I've learned so much.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then in terms of just like Jewish education, I've learned a lot.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm really have been educating myself over the last two years, inspired by some of my guests and by my work.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: I've learned more, you know, text-based stuff and ritual stuff and holiday and biblical stuff, and am continuing to learn.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm getting a master's now in anti-Semitism studies and learning a lot from that.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: So just I'm learning new things every day.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so just to go into some of the detail of what you've learned, who are some of the guests, just a little highlight reel of some of the guests and what they've taught you.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, within reason, I know that you've had some lots of guests like I have.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you could just go on and on because there's so many amazing, which is why I'm what I've learned, because I am constantly learning, like I'm learning from you now.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me a little bit about who's a bit of a highlight for you.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of like when I when you asked me that question, like I'm gonna tell you the first couple ones that popped into my brain.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've learned a lot from my friend Van Jones, who is one of the, if not the best allies the Jewish people have.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: This is a guy who's really walking the walk and has committed himself to the Black Jewish relationship and standing up for Jews.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I've learned so much from him about how to be an advocate and how to bring people together and how to lead.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: And also, I've learned a lot from him on you know, the black perspective about Jews and What we're doing right, what we're doing wrong, what's missing.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just constantly learning a lot of stuff from him.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: I learned a lot from a woman named Lea Soybell, who is the CEO of an organization called Fuente Latina.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, actually, tonight, after this, I'm uh co-hosting an event for and with them.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: We're doing a screening of the Spanish language documentary they produced about October 7th called Testigos del Terror, which came completely out of her coming on my show.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: She came on my show and we talked about the basically, you know, the under-nurtured relationship between Jews and Latinos, and how it's just not something that's getting paid enough attention to.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: And they are an enormous population, obviously.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh certainly in America, they're a huge and growing population.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: And there just hasn't been a lot of nurturing of that relationship.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: So from that uh inspiration of that conversation, I've already thrown one event.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: I partnered with an organization called Jutina, and we did a Jewish Latino Dia de los Muertos event at the Museum of Tolerance here in LA.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: And now we're hosting this screening.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, and and it's leading me to other things.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, just like having that switch flipped for me by Leia was really important.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: And now it's really a focus for me is bringing Jews and other groups that we don't normally get together with, bringing them together, and the intersectional groups like uh Latino Jews or Asian Jews who are often left out of a lot of these conversations.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: I also learned speaking about Latinos, I had a woman named Blanca Carrasco on who is uh a crypto Jew.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I sort of understood vaguely about crypto Jews.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: What's a crypto Jew?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: So crypto Jews are Jews, yeah, yeah.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: These are the today, they're the the lineage of folks who in the time of the Inquisition hid their Jewishness but held on to it.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you've got generations later that they moved, they moved to Mexico and Latin America and all these places, and some of them are aware of their heritage, some are just discovering that that's their heritage.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of like I'll hear like my grandma on Friday nights would always go in the other room and like light candles by herself.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, we never knew what that was or why she did that.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's this lineage of being hidden Jews.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so her story's amazing, and there's so many like it.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: That was a cool one.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, we put that up, and then the YouTube comments are just full of other people who have had the same experience who are discovering their own lineage.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that was a really fascinating one.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: Fascinating.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I suppose what you're doing is you've opened the door to all of these connections.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I think what you're showing, I mean, that those examples demonstrate that often the loudest voices are not necessarily the most important ones.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: So, like sometimes it's the quieter voices that we need to tap, which is what you're talking about.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: The ones that are just trying to find very much so.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: And uh yeah, I mean, I think that one of the biggest problems we have is the loudest voices are who we are taking as representative of the whole, or at or equating volume to level of importance.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the big mistakes we make in society today is equating volume with worth or value, or um being right or being good.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's just volume just equals volume, but it doesn't, it's not indicative of quality or value in any way.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're we're missing out a lot on the important conversations, uh, or or even the, you know, we we mistake volume for volume in like audio, we mistake for volume in depth.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: That like because something is loud, that means it it must equate to a great deal of people thinking and feeling this way.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: And often the opposite is true.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: The problem is that the power of those voices have had a transformative impact, as we know.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: Whether you look, and and we'll touch on this briefly, obviously, Mandami in New York, and um, you know, this this is sort of I was reading something.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: They said something like 75%.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if this is true, but this is what I read in one of the uh New York Times articles that 75% of the voters for Mandami were sort of women under 35 who were, you know, like a very strong resonance with people that were open to the loudest voices, but not necessarily fully understanding the landscape.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, were you surprised by that outcome?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I mean, it was trending.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Once he won the primary, it was sort of clear that's where we were heading.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, from from most of the data that I've seen in this particular case, it does appear that a a great deal of his appeal, you know, it can be chalked up to a couple of things.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: He he's young, he's charismatic, he had a vision.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that a lot of the people who voted for him are feeling economic crunch.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like a lot of these are, as you say, you know, younger folks who spent a lot of money on college, have this great debt, are all these qualified people who like have no jobs and like the college degree is not doing anything for them, and the rent's too high, and the cost of living's too high.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: And here comes a slick, young, relatable, you know, uh dude of color who is saying, I'm gonna give you free food, I'm gonna give you free transportation, I'm gonna give Mick your rent.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: The other candidate was not a fantastic choice.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it was, you know, you had somebody young, fresh, vision dominating social media, out on the streets talking to people.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then you had sort of an old establishment Democrat who had no real vision other than I've worked in politics and you haven't, and I'm I'm good and you're bad.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: And people just, you know, weren't tuning in for that.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: So, from your perspective, do you do you um, having understood the landscape there, do you think that is a concern when you consider, you know, obviously New York has the biggest Jewish population outside of Israel?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: What what are your thoughts on that anxiety that has been clearly pushed by a lot of, I've been watching a lot of the Instagram sort of Jewish, whether it's Deborah Messager or, you know, like there's this Deborah Messing talking about, you know, she's posted quite incessantly and concerningly about this.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think it's a real concern or do you think it's one that will settle?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Both.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think certain, you know, I think certainly leading up to the election, while there's still an opportunity to really do something about it, it it was completely appropriate to sound an alarm.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to say, hey, like please don't vote for this guy.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you make it sound as, or not even make it sound, but like be as clear as you want to be about the dangers there.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think some of that has calmed down now that he's won.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, sort of a foregone conclusion.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I think some of that's taken care of itself a little bit.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: I it sort of remains to be seen, right?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um his, you know, his anti-Israel piece of his who he is as a politician is is core to who he is.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: He's he's said as much, like this is what he's about.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: So how much influence can a uh New York mayor have on Israel?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think very much.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: How much influence can we have on an environment of hostility for you know pro-Israel constituents?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think a great deal.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think it's not it's certainly not going to be more comfortable for Jews with Mamdani as a mayor.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: I I hope the amount that it becomes less comfortable for Jews is small.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: But again, that sort of remains to be seen.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: We we saw right away after he was elected, someone put a swastika uh on a building in Brooklyn.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: He came out and condemned it right away.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: And people, a lot of people clapped him on the back for that.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Condemning, if you're on the left, condemning anti-Semitism on the right is very easy.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's split down a party line anyway.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: And the one thing that sort of most people, except for the far right, can agree on is you know, Nazis are bad.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: And saying, you know, kill the Jews is bad.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's not hard.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's low-hanging fruit.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't lose him any points with his base for saying a swastika is bad.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't give him too much credit there.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like to me, that doesn't necessarily communicate, oh, this guy's got my back.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it communicates that he's saying the right thing in the moment, certainly better than not saying anything, but it doesn't really put me at ease for what I'm concerned with, is when there's anti-jubigotry on the left under the guise of anti-Zionism, which is today the only vehicle for anti-Semitism on the left is anti-Zionism.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when that rears its head, is he gonna be there cheering it on?
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Is he going to call in the LAPD and protect people?
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Or is he gonna, you know, sit in his office and watch through the window?
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we'll have to see.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: An interesting reflection.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you mentioned you were you were about to study um your master's um on the issue of anti-Semitism in Australia.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yesterday, uh actually last weekend, I don't know if you saw, but there were some, you know, neo-Nazis that stood in Parliament outside Parliament with, you know, it was insane in New South Wales, all in their black.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: The police didn't get the memo, apparently, so they didn't do anything about it.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: And they sort of came on TV and went, Oh, look, sorry guys, didn't get the memo.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: Communication breakdown, nothing done.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: They've just all been named in the paper yesterday.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: But I suppose it's weird because last night I actually went and watched uh the Ellie Weesall documentary as part of the GIF, which is the the film festival here.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it, you know, it's really confronting because if you've read Night, and I'm sure you have that whole you can't help, but as you're sitting there watching it, going, okay, without being panicked and without being hysterical, there is a sense, as we all know, of this looming global anxiety, which is quite justified, I think, in some ways, but how quickly things deteriorated.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think we I'm sure you're having these discussions all the time.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's a really interesting reflection when you see these.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: It was a very sort of slow burn, and then it was quick to get to where Hitler and and what happened with the Holocaust happened reasonably quickly, you know?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: So the status quo was this, and then within six to eight weeks it was, you know, Kristall knuckled and everything.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: So what's your uh insight?
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: Have you have you learned from some of the guests you've had on the show?
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: And also just speaking, as you say, with some of the people that you've been engaging with, what's your take?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: Are you hopeful?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: Are you afraid?
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: Are you is there a sense?
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: Can you give some context to your perspective on this?
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: My perspective is things are different now than they were in the 30s for a couple of reasons.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: Number one of which is Israel exists.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and you know, that can't be understated.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's sort of you know the the ultimate answer to a lot of this stuff is you know, we are in control of ourselves somewhere on the planet.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and also as as dicey as things are getting, look, I can't speak for what is happening in Australia or what's happening in the UK or what's happening in France.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like it definitely from the outside seems to be worse there than it does in America.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: There are more Jews here uh than in those other places.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: In America, not a lot, but um, you know, in America, I I feel, and look, I don't, I hope I'm not sounding naive saying this because I'm sure people uh in Europe said this too, but we have the benefit of seeing what has happened to us before, but we do have uh, you know, a voice here.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: We do have power and we do have allies and we do have friends, especially where it counts in the government.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: The Trump perspective is clearly very pro, but that has its own complexities as as absolutely no doubt, no doubt.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: But we you know, we don't have a a at least not yet, even within the Democratic Party, that there is not it is not mainstream that Jews are the problem and need to be dealt with.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like I just I don't see how we would get if this is point A and point B is that we're getting shipped off into trains.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's it would take 700 steps, I feel like, to get there.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't think we're we're a a a switched, a flip switched away from that.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I just I don't feel like we are in imminent danger.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and I I feel like we're we're strong, you know.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think the Jewish community is strong and engaged and connected and well resourced and full of a lot of smart people with their eyes open.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: And we need to look at these things from a place of strength and from a place of we're not going anywhere.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm living in America forever.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is not temporary.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not waiting for it to get bad and I'm gonna pick up and go move somewhere else.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that this is it, and we're gonna stay here and and fight for our place.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: And we just need to normalize Jews taking up space as Jews in public and help people understand that we are part of the fabric of society and we're not going anywhere.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, first of all, I think there'll be a lot of listeners who'll be very happy to hear that perspective because there is a lot of heightened anxiety, there's a lot of hyper-vigilance.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: Which I understand, which is completely legitimate.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm not trying to downplay that at all.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I just I'm trying to look at the the full picture of it.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think the other thing that's interesting about your perspective is that you're at a you're at a very pivotal uh point where you are accessing a lot of also people who are coming on board, Jewish and non-Jewish, who are allies, who are educated and want to learn and want to contribute.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the other thing that's very important too is which you also referenced briefly, is that Jewish people are contributors.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_02: They they want to be part of the fabric of society, always have been, and have always stepped up to the plate.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a very strong sense that there are a lot of Jews and non-Jews that work very closely together, and there's a great sense of community outside of sort of that small Jewish community.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: We're all just everybody's very uh connected.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: But there's a sense, I think, of hypervigilance and anxiety.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, we have people here in Australia saying, Well, look, we're just we're we're gonna move.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like there are certain people who are really quite anxious and planning their move, right?
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: So whether they action it or how many, because there's also people leaving Israel as well.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's another story.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: But I think so.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: You are actually hopeful.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: You see strength, you see connectivity, you see community.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's very I see all I see all that stuff.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: I see people working hard towards making this better.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and again, like, you know, while I was listening to what you were just saying about how we're connected, the cynic would go, well, Jews in Europe felt really connected, and they had non-Jewish business partners and friends, and they turned on them in a heartbeat.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: What we have that they don't is that their example.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, I don't think the 15 million Jews on this earth are for one second gonna let what happened before happen again.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't think we're gonna let it happen.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: I believe in us and our ability to stop it.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: Never again.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: Never again.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: I just I I believe in our our eyes being open and our our in our ingenuity and our again, the you know, the the influence and resources and connectivity we have spent all these decades building uh and the knowledge of what happens when we you know take a nap on it.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: We we are lucky to have that knowledge of our forebearers, and I feel confident we're not gonna let it happen again.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Jonah, that's a wonderful note to finish our interview.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: I could talk to you about so many other things because you're really, really interesting and you have a great insight.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I think what you're doing is is a really important community uh, I won't say service, but it's very important because you and I are on the other side of the planet, in effect, right?
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: 19 hours apart, right?
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: And look at the connectivity, and that's the beauty of the podcast space, is you can share these extreme, extremely inspiring um and educating stories.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: And it sounds like from your journey, you actually feel you've learned a lot, and a lot of that feeds your soul and hopefully feel feeds others.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: Certainly fed mine tonight.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you so much.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh really appreciate the time.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: And hopefully we uh we can continue to connect and and and keep posted on what's happening.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: I would love that.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, thank you so much.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: This has been a real treat.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: Same.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: All right, take care, Jonah.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: You too.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you for joining us on the What I've Learned podcast.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you enjoyed that interview because we are so privileged to have a wonderful platform where guests come on and share lessons learned, rivers crossed, mountains climbed.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_02: We love our shared humanity, and we are so grateful to have such a beautiful community.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_02: So remember to stay curious, kind, and connected.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: And we'll see you next time at the What I've Learned podcast.