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E32 Consolidate Your Systems with Jason Turner · Stronger Business Together

• Granger Forson: This is the Stronger Business Together podcast where business owners learn from other business owners. No theory, no gurus, just real journeys and overcoming real hurdles. Today I'm joined by Jason Turner of Turner Berry. And like every owner, he's in that middle of building things, fixing things and growing something that really matters to him. So Jason, welcome. Jason Turner: Good yeah, good afternoon. How are you? Granger Forson: Great, thank you. excellent. Let's move on with act one now, your business. Okay, in Jason Turner: Mm-hmm. Granger Forson: plain English, what does your business do? Jason Turner: So we're an accounting company based here in Bristol, catering for companies across Bristol and the Southwest. all sorts of tax and HMRC fun stuff. yeah, is is kind of what we deal with on a day to day basis. Granger Forson: HMRC tax and fun stuff. Jason Turner: Yeah. Granger Forson: who do you love helping and what are they typically dealing with then? Jason Turner: our clientele primarily revolves around small businesses, local businesses. 90% of our customers are Bristol based, I would say. so it's it's a lot of tradespeople. we've got, you know, a few different sectors involved as well. but it's just helping people understand their financials a little bit better, understanding their legal obligations with companies House and HMRC a bit better, and trying to help people with their tax efficiency, because who doesn't love tax efficiency, right? So yeah, that's basic what what what we do in a in a nutshell. Granger Forson: Fantastic, yes So fantastic, yeah I totally agree with that. So how did the business start then? What was that original spark? Jason Turner: I would say I have always known that I wanted to start my own business and be my own boss since I was Granger Forson: Fantastic. Jason Turner: in s since I was in secondary school. I think a lot of people get that inkling when they're in school that they don't wanna spend too long in employment, they don't want to spend too long in the nine to five before they are able to make the leap into starting their own business and having that business support them and pay their bills. So I've already kind of I I've always kind of known that was gonna be the case. but it takes time, right? It takes experience, it takes knowledge. and it's very difficult when you start a business to get to a point where it pays the bills, it pays your wage. and we were very fortunate that a couple of years ago we started out. I met my business partner working for a company in Bristol in the finance department, and we'd basically kind of agreed between ourselves that. We thought we'd give this a go and start this little side hustle of having some customers on the side of our normal nine to fives and building that up. And we were really fortunate that that grew quite quickly. and we were able to find ourselves not only paying the bills, but you know, paying ourselves a fairly decent wage as well. So we've been incredibly grateful of that journey so far. Like I said, we're two years in and we're we're growing quite quickly still. So yeah, I'm very very chuffed with where we've got to so far. You know, previous to this business, previous to being an accountant, I did try some other business ventures which didn't quite work out so well. I mean, they say 60, 70 percent of businesses fell within the first two years, and you can kind of see why. It's tricky, right? It takes consistency, it takes dedication, and it doesn't Granger Forson: Yes. It does. Jason Turner: always work out. So this is not Definitely not my first company. I've had a few. So I've had a bit of experience in starting a company and it not quite working out. But this one really took off and yeah, we're kind of we are where we are now, I guess. so yeah, really excited about that. Granger Forson: Brilliant, congratulations. Yeah, I fully understand Jason Turner: Much. Granger Forson: that. We're on our second structure of this business. The way we do things, we restructured it and redesigned the business. We've been for four years of doing it different way. So well done, well done on the business has now grown and it's successful. So what does the business look like today in terms of size and shape? Jason Turner: so today, like I said, we've got we've got three employees. we know cater for around a hundred limited companies in the Bristol area and and slightly beyond as well. We kind of specialise slightly more just out of kind of just general client building. I mean, when you start out, you you your offering I feel like is sometimes quite open, right? You just want any customer that kind of comes to you, you want to say yes to. Granger Forson: Yep. Jason Turner: so we started out as a very generic offering. And what we found is that a lot of tradespeople in the area needed accountant, needed help with their CIS, their construction industry scheme stuff. So that that was all slotted in quite well with with what we wanted as well. It was quite a good fit for us. So that's kind of our predominant business at the moment. we do want to kind of look at specialise in and being more specialist rather than generalist. I think that will come in time when we kind of understand our our own market a bit more and and where we want to go as well. Because I don't think we've sat down and thought too much about what our ideal clientele would be. and when you're a new company starting out, it's very difficult to knock on the doors of these big companies and be taken seriously, right? Until you get a bit of a reputation, until you've been around for a little while. bigger companies don't really want small companies handling their finances, right? Granger Forson: Yeah. Jason Turner: so in order to get the bigger the bigger kind of market, it does take a bit of time, I feel like, to build up, gain that trust, gain that reputation within the community to then be able to go, look, okay, we've got a proven track record. We've got a lot of people that you know we kind of work with that have all got positive feedback and now, you know, we we we're able to cater for that. We've got the resources, et cetera, we've got the knowledge base and we're able to do that. Granger Forson: Yeah, no, well done. Yeah, you have to build that trust over time. And there's an Jason Turner: Mm-hmm. Granger Forson: interesting phrase I came across a number of years ago. In the first year of your business, you'll take any client because you will need the money. In your second year, Jason Turner: Yeah. Yeah, no. Granger Forson: you find those clients you don't like working with. And it takes probably in Jason Turner: Mm-hmm. Granger Forson: your third year, you actually find the clients you like to work with and you find that specialism and that focus. yeah, you're on that journey Jason Turner: Yeah. Granger Forson: definitely from what you're telling us. So tell us about a customer success that you're proud of then. Jason Turner: we so I suppose so at the minute one of our kind of bigger customers I should say is is actually like an an influencer. So they're a content creator, TikTok, YouTube, Instagram, that kind of stuff. and they have seen quite a lot of success in the last couple of years and they've really built their following, built their content, been consistent with it. and they've seen, you know, a really good increase in, you know, their own revenues, et cetera. And so it's been really good to be on the journey with them for that and celebrate their successes along the way, to become more prominent YouTubers, et cetera. and you know, so yeah, basically and and any company that kind of grows as we're kind of helping them to is is always a good success story. And we do have quite a few customers. I mean, at the minute, the economy we're seeing some cut some customers do really well. And then we're seeing some customers do not so well, right? I mean it it's a tough economy Granger Forson: Yeah. Jason Turner: to try to make it in. And some businesses are excelling, some businesses not so much. so it it is it is an interesting game at the minute to to see that kind of play out. but but yeah, I mean yeah, we we kind of we like to hold hands as much as we can with with our customers and kind of help them kind of show them a better way if we can. when it comes to managing their own financials. Granger Forson: Brilliant. mean what's interesting is you've got that mix between you talked about trades you've now talked about influencer that's growing and Jason Turner: Yeah. Granger Forson: developing that's amazing so how do you go about generating your leads then? Jason Turner: Okay, that's that's an interesting one. So when we started out, we we decided that we just we were gonna do direct mail campaigns because companies house, when you register your limited company, it's public information, right? So your company name, your company address, and corporation data accounts, all that is public. I can go and see that, you know, on my laptop in five seconds. Okay, when we get that information, then we know so that's our core client, right? At the minute we're dealing with a lot of startups because we're basically a startup ourselves. We've only been going twenty four months. So startups tend to be you know quite easy to get on board because not only are we a small business and we can offer a you know a kind of a great price, but you know local businesses as well. We're kind of here. We're much more practic we're much more proactive, we're much more accessible, I would say, than some of the bigger firms in in Bristol at the minute. I've heard some horror stories Of people not being able to get hold of their accountant or not being being able to get a reply to an email. and that tends to be one of the driving factors of people who are leaving their accountant and coming to us is that Granger Forson: Yeah. Jason Turner: proactiveness, is somebody to say, look, your tax is due now. Look, if you do this, you're gonna end up paying more tax. If you do that, you're gonna pay less. You know, that kind of stuff. People don't have how much tax they're gonna pay at the forefront of their mind until the years financial year's ticked over, and then, the accountant goes the 11th hour, that's your tax bill. And they go, Well, I haven't got that I haven't got that kind of money set around. And then, you know, HMRC suddenly then issue a fine. which that drives me crazy. You know, the amount of people sometimes I see receiving fines when it could be so easily avoided. it it yeah, it's something that we don't want our customers doing. So we try to be as, you know, as helpful as we can in terms of estimating that tax and making sure they've got a provision for that in the future when it comes time to pay. Granger Forson: So that direct mailing of people seems to work for you. Do you do any other lead generation at all? Jason Turner: We do, there is a few we do like to sponsor local grassroots football teams. That's more that's more so I wouldn't say from like a charit you know, a kind of charity point of view, but but but we want to make sure that, you know, we're we're kind of sponsoring that and we're in the community to kind of do that and and offer that service. So at the minute we do sponsor a football team literally across the across my office. I can always see them playing from my office, which is quite cool. and we sponsor Granger Forson: Brilliant. Jason Turner: another And we we sponsor another football team, local football team, youth football team, not too far from us as well. Granger Forson: Awesome. Jason Turner: as well as a cricket team as well, but as more so because my business partner plays for them. Granger Forson: Well, it's all about connections, isn't it? Jason Turner: Yeah, that's it. And then more recently we've we've gone on the track of like Google SEO kind of optimization. So we've got we've recently engaged with somebody who's gonna help us to ensure we've got keywords, help me 'cause SEO is a bit of a minefield sometimes when when it comes to it, unless you kind of really understand all the the meta tags and all the kind of back end of your website. It's very difficult to know why your website isn't performing as well. Granger Forson: Yes. Jason Turner: So I've got somebody on board to kind of analyze that, help me out with some of the you know, making it more Google likable, shall we say, so that Google can then put that on the front page and say, yes, use these accountants. because a lot of people just Google stuff nowadays. Or same with Chat GPT and and AI and Granger Forson: Still do? Yep. Jason Turner: and Cloud and stuff, making it more accessible for AI to read our website and understand so that when people ask what's the what you know, what's a good accountant near me? we can potentially be recommended in those AI results as well. yeah. Granger Forson: And I do like your website with all the very bright colors and structure to it. Jason Turner: Yeah, we do know what that's a that's a new website. That was launched about two weeks ago on the advice of my SEO SEO guy. He's he's advised that we get a new website because he thinks it's gonna rank better. So hopefully it's very early days yet. but hopefully that's gonna integrate with Google and the search engines a bit better. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Granger Forson: Yeah, yes and and seo is is a slightly longer game anyway, So brilliant well done. So what what are you aiming for then in the next 12 months and why for your business? Jason Turner: the next you know, we we've not actually kind of sat down, it's all been a bit of a whirlwind to be honest with you. So we've not actually sat down and made a kind of solid business plan or looked at a strategy of of growth. I kind of do an annual budget, and that's that's effectively Granger Forson: Mm-hmm. Brilliant. Jason Turner: as far as kind of we we go in terms of that strategy almost. so I've got a budget for marketing, I know how much I want to spend, I know how much conversion or legion I want from that. and yeah, so twelve months time. you know, I've got a plan of where I want to be kind of revenue-wise and kind of profit or loss-wise. I guess those are my two big kind of KPIs. I know for some people it's not always financial, it might be other things. we probably will have another employee by this time next year. so there's there's lots of things that will happen, but it it's not like I've kind of planned it all down on paper and and got it all ready to present as if like an investor was gonna come in or something. It's been very much a side hustle that's just kind of grown into something that's that's now a kind of organically now. I do find word of mouth is a fantastic driver, particularly in the accountancy sector, for gaining new clients and lead gen. so that's something that I think will have that kind of snowball effect, particularly in twelve months when when we're a bit more we've got a few more customers, etc. Granger Forson: And for small business like yourself that growing, I've got clients the same. And I say to them, you don't need a big strategy plan. What you need is just a sort of direction that you want to go in the next 12 months in terms of type of growth, but then ask the question, what's the gap? What have I got to do in between to close that gap? It doesn't happen by miracle. It happens because of the actions that you take. A lot of the time we don't know what those actions will actually result in, so start experimenting and finding. So yeah, brilliant. I like that idea. Just have a budget, work on what you want to do and then get going with it. Brilliant. So let's move on to act two now, the journey. So building a business, there are highs and lows. There are frustrations, there are excitements. Give us some examples because you've talked about running previous businesses as well. Jason Turner: Mm-hmm. Granger Forson: What have been some of the highs and lows in your journey to date? Jason Turner: well so prior to starting our accountancy firm that I I kinda run now, I did have an online suite company, selling pick a mix sweets, believe it or not. I actually I actually bought Granger Forson: Wow, excellent. Jason Turner: that I actually bought that company when it was still quite small and it actually it actually grew to a fairly sizable suite company actually. We we ended up being stocked in thirty WH Smith stores across the country. So that was quite quite daunting, as well as it was exciting, because there's a lot of orders to fill. You wanna make sure you keep the customer happy, et cetera. So that was a lot Granger Forson: Yeah. Jason Turner: of work. a lot of late nights, making that one work and come together. lows wise, I don't think we've really seen too many lows, to be honest with you. We we're still I think because we're still in a very early stage, we've not seen too many customers leave. Every business is gonna have customers that maybe don't pay their bid on time or just end up not talking to you and you know kind of running away when they've got invoices due they suddenly forget how much you know it's it's a bit of a nightmare so that does happen if you're a business to business if you're in the business to business sector you you almost got to expect that sometimes invoices won't be paid that's always a negative but you know that it that's business unfortunately right so some customers do go under some cust some customers do have cash flow issues so it it it does it does happen. And for me, I'm a bit like O C D with that. I kind of I need I want my invoices paid on time. That's that's what I asked for, right? And I'm gonna provide you with a good service. Yeah. So Granger Forson: Don't we all? Don't we all? Jason Turner: yeah, apart from that, I wouldn't say we've had too many negatives here as as a business. We've been very fortunate. myself and my business partner have always got on very well. so there's never really been any disputes, there's never really been any kind of major dramas that we've had to contend with or deal with. So I'm very grateful for that and very happy for that. No doubt that will there will be some hurdles along the way, absolutely no doubt. I mentioned earlier I've got an SEO person in to help me with the SEO. He has already briefed me that when I start getting good search engine results, there will probably be somebody that will try to blackmail or try to hold my company hostage and suggest that they're gonna tarnish my reputation online if I don't Granger Forson: Okay. Jason Turner: pay some kind of ransom. And he said that does happen. It will happen when you start ranking quite highly on Google, et cetera. And he says when it happens, he he's kind of prepared to kind of deal with it. So it's interesting that he's had that conversation with me so early on. but I'm sure that I've not had that challenge yet, but I'm sure it's going to be coming up when companies start doing quite well, other people want to take advantage of that success in a not so ethical way. But there we go. We'll I guess we're past that break. Granger Forson: Yeah, good advice. I remember Alan Sugar on The Apprentice, one of his apprentices that ended up working with him. built an online marketing business. Very successful, was growing really well. He got to about 30 employees and they had a cease and desist, letter from somebody saying they were using their IP and using their Jason Turner: Mm-hmm. Granger Forson: trademarks and everything else. And he phoned up Alan Sugar in complete blind panic and he said, what to do? He said, right, what you do is you take that letter, you walk to their reception and you just stand in front of them and just say, sue me then and walk out. Jason Turner: Yeah. Granger Forson: And they never did Jason Turner: Yeah. Granger Forson: because often people just want to try that rather than actually really make that happen. yeah, well, fantastic bit of Jason Turner: Yeah. Yeah I'll I'll take it. Granger Forson: advice. Not thought of that one for a very long time. So yeah, that's really interesting. Jason Turner: yeah, that's a pretty interesting. Yeah. Granger Forson: So one of the things we believe at The Stronger Business Together is about simplifying what you do and Jason Turner: Mm-hmm. Granger Forson: making things easier. Give us an example, what have you simplified within your business now you've got going from what you've when you first started off thinking about doing? Jason Turner: Yeah, I mean I mean that that's an interesting one. So so in our business, I look after more of our process kind of management, our CRM and you know, et cetera, that kind of workflow, the customer experience, I guess you might call it. and so yeah, a really interesting question. And as we've been growing and we've been growing quite quickly, we're constantly finding that the systems that we were using or the processes that we were following are kind of a bit out of date now, or maybe a bit too manual or two-time consuming so we're having to drive that efficiency and make sure that we've got a system in place that can cope with not only our existing clients but also the the growth that we're we're likely to experience we've experienced or hopefully we'll will it will experience in the next few years. So it is an interesting one but getting a software that can handle that kind of you know your cli your client base, the tasks, the meetings all this kind of stuff and trying to get it into one place or get it to flow together as some kind of ERP, some kind of synergy to it is is yeah, is a challenge. so we've been constantly trying to monitor it and work towards bettering it. And luckily as we've grown, budgets get bigger, suddenly you've got a bit more money for some more software, some better software, whatever that may be. I have always found though that a lot of the softwares on the marketplace tend to be quite generic. Well it tends to be quite limiting, as in you can only do so much Granger Forson: Yeah. Yeah. Jason Turner: with it. And for us, I can never get it quite right. I can never get a white label product that is is is exactly what we want, if that makes sense. So Granger Forson: Yeah, no, absolutely. that's because they're designing it around their initial system that they originally designed Jason Turner: Mm-hmm. Granger Forson: and then they expand it and add bolt-ons, et cetera. So, you know, it's based on their original concept and idea rather than actually always satisfying the ongoing marketplace. So yeah, totally agree. Jason Turner: Absolutely, yeah. So I've been looking you know, a lot of APIs and integrations in that in that sense and the tech stack, the tech layering and stuff, which is all very complicated. but Granger Forson: Yes. Jason Turner: if you, you know, are running your business and you want a better tech system, I would say maybe invest a bit of time and looking at at that kind of current setup because I've recently got into Zapia. I don't know if you've heard of that, but that they do a lot Granger Forson: We do, yep. Jason Turner: APIs, yeah. So I've kind of had a little play with that. And it's it's interesting how kind of potentially easy it could be if you've got a good foundational knowledge of like IT and stuff. Just being able to go on and have a little play and how these APIs integrate and how they work. It's basically the best way I can explain it for somebody that's got no experience in APIs is it's almost like an Excel spreadsheet, almost like a VLOOKUP or something like that. But instead of looking at another Excel sheet, you're actually looking at a website or a data set online somewhere. so yeah, I mean it's it's interesting. Granger Forson: you basically connect one system to another system and they can talk to each other because they understand the data columns, they understand the data transfers. Jason Turner: Exact exactly that. Exactly that. We use Zoho for our CRM. the reason why we chose that is because it's got really good customizability and it's got really good kind of scalability, should we need it. and so we've kind of got started on that. And what we've recently done is use Zoho forms and integrate that as well. So when we request information from a customer, they can complete it in the form and then it comes back in the CRM as well. Granger Forson: Yeah. Jason Turner: Whereas before Granger Forson: Yeah. Jason Turner: we were kind of asking, you know, what's your tax number? And then they'd reply to us on an email. And then it would be for somebody in our business to go and find that email, copy that tax number and put it into the system. Now it it's done automatically. So it kind of helps it to flow. Granger Forson: Yeah. Jason Turner: and that's one of the bigger things is taking out that manual need to put data in and actually doing it automatically or putting a bit of an onus onto the customer so that they can just type into a form and it will cut pull back throw into our system. That's gonna make stuff, Granger Forson: Yeah, no, brilliant. Jason Turner: yeah, significantly easier for us. And if you're a small business or you're a growing business, having that kind of system that workflows is just going to help you so much. Granger Forson: Yeah, definitely, one of the things that we talk about is having a pulse as a team, coming together, making Jason Turner: Yeah, I'll have a team. Granger Forson: things happen. So what's one habit that you put in place with your business that keeps your team, the three of you, stronger together? Jason Turner: that's an that's an interesting question. To be honest, I don't have too much with our day-to-day kind of operational stuff. I always find that as a as a business owner, if you're too engrossed in your day-to-day activity, you might end up forgetting the strategic development of your business or you might not find the time to to look at how you're gonna expand and grow. we do offer though, in our business, you know, we've been very fortunate that we we do have some good Christmas parties. if you're talking about the team bonding kind of stuff. so last year we ended up going to Lapland, in you know, Finland to to enjoy our Christmas party, which our apprentice had only been with us about two months, so she was very, very happy to be going abroad after Granger Forson: You Jason Turner: two months of working for us. so we we do we do try to incentivize as a small business. I think you can do that as well. It's more personal level, you know. Big companies have high turnover staff because effectively sometimes whether you like or not, unfortunately, you're basically a number. and you know, sometimes it can feel like that in in big corporate businesses. So as a small business, you've definitely got you know, scope there to treat employees a bit more like people, and you know, give them you know a bit more leeway, a bit more flexibility and a bit more kind of benefits, etc. as well. So we do regularly do. team bonding stuff, going out for food, et cetera. that's something that I don't want to ever kind of let die too much because that's really important for our business. If we don't do that, I feel too corporate. Granger Forson: Yes, fantastic. No, I love that. That's really, really important. The team together time, the team bonding time, it keeps you ready for those difficult times, etc. that come ahead. So Jason, let's move on to Act 3 now, the hurdle. So you've picked a hurdle question from a listener. So what's our hurdle question today? Jason Turner: so it's f the the five different tools that your commenter has that he's using in his business and trying to combine it, which kind of links in to what I was saying Granger Forson: Mmm. Jason Turner: just a minute ago in regards to the kind of tech stack, etc. It is quite difficult to find softwares and processes that link together without being a kind Granger Forson: Yeah. Jason Turner: of real techie person. Granger Forson: Yeah. Jason Turner: it is possible. I mean, I I know I brought up Zoho and I do really like Zoho. because they are quite user friendly, is low or no code, they've got all these different softwares integrate together. And so that Granger Forson: Yeah. Jason Turner: might be I'm not trying to sell Zoho software, I've got no affiliation with them. Granger Forson: No, no, that's fine. Jason Turner: but that Granger Forson: So let's just unpick this. the question was around that they have five different systems. They're looking Jason Turner: Mm-hmm. Granger Forson: at note taking. They're looking at coms, customer coms. They're looking at the things that they need to do, the processes in their business. But things are falling through the cracks. So from your experience, then, what do you think is going on in this business? How would we describe where they are today? Jason Turner: I would say they're probably a little bit too much on the kind of manual side. Or if this system's got this data, it needs to go Granger Forson: Yeah. Jason Turner: to this system, there's maybe a lack of communication between the two systems there. so yeah. Granger Forson: Yeah, and they've probably bought tools for a specific requirement rather than maybe thinking where they want to go. Yeah, so they've Jason Turner: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Granger Forson: got lots of different things. So Bobby Garcia's CRM, he talked about note taking, they're using emails they're using to try and collect data, etc. Okay, you know the classic way we start off, probably even got Excel in the middle of all of that somewhere driving Jason Turner: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Granger Forson: things. Okay, so For a small business, this business has around nine staff. So what would good look like then for them, do you think? Rather than giving specific tool names, what would be good if in six, nine months time, what would a good condition look like? Jason Turner: Yeah, an interesting question. So I I would I'm very much on the on the side of reviewing those systems and really really finding out which ones are kind of essential for your business. Are are there Granger Forson: Yeah. Jason Turner: some that is are nice to have, but does it really add the value that you're looking for? Or is there Granger Forson: Yes. Jason Turner: a different system that could add the same value that could integrate better with your current systems? It's just getting that ERP to circle. circle round basically and make sure that those systems are talking to e to each other. Which again, i Granger Forson: So. Jason Turner: I know it's tricky when you're not from a tech background, but yeah, that that tends to be the main driver is systems not talking not talking to each other. Granger Forson: and probably not even realizing that they could actually do that as well. So, know, a target condition would be there maybe only have they sort of have five systems a day, maybe only having two main systems, you know, maybe a CRM and then a production system, whatever production they're actually Jason Turner: Yeah, sure. Granger Forson: doing. Yeah, so something that drives the interaction with the customer and then something that drives the activity within Jason Turner: Yeah. Granger Forson: the team. to deliver then the customer requirements. And then you've probably got a third one, which is then your financial system in the background. And so for me, a good target condition would be maybe just having those three systems, I've talked about two, but having Jason Turner: Yeah. Granger Forson: those three systems and really challenging ourselves to really think about what exists and can we use it? Because I think one of the other things that takes place is we start using a system, but we... We maybe have to do a bit of compromise in it because we have to use it their way, but we don't actually use all of it. Jason Turner: Yeah. Granger Forson: We moved into a new CRM about two years ago and there is so much within it that we have deliberately said we will never buy another CRM unless we're using 80 % of the entire functionality of this system. Jason Turner: Yeah. Granger Forson: It's a deliberate thing that we did because we knew that one of the biggest wastes in small businesses is that Excel waste. We only use 10 % of Excel. Jason Turner: Mm-hmm. Granger Forson: What are we doing with the other 90 %? There's obviously great stuff in there and we'll never use all of it, but we don't explore, we don't try and work out, we don't try and fix the problems that we have within the systems that we have. So Jason Turner: Yeah. Granger Forson: if that's our target condition, maybe having three systems, and why do you think today they've got five? or more systems, they're probably using Excel, they're probably using different things. What's going Jason Turner: Yeah. Granger Forson: on in people's heads when they start thinking about what they need? Jason Turner: I mean, I I I would just say if if it's not possible for them to use less systems, then what I would recommend is maybe that they can identify what it is, what tasks it is that are slipping through the net, and whether they can find a process to stop those tasks from slipping through the net if you if it were, between those two systems, right? In regards to the question about why do people use so many systems, I get that. I I've not yet found a system that can do it all. So you e you eventually look at different softwares that niche in the exact area that you're kinda looking for and hopefully it's in Granger Forson: Yes. Jason Turner: you know you can integrate it with an a with an existing system. so I I completely get that. There is a tech layering, a tech stack to big websites as well. Granger Forson: Or we start off sometimes just with the first thing that we see and when we get fixed in that, or rather than actually setting back and saying, okay, what do we actually need? So mapping out all your requirements, Jason Turner: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Granger Forson: understanding future requirements as well, and then spending a bit of time because I've just used that really difficult word, time. When do we ever have time? But if we're serious about fixing it, we would... we'd do that mapping, we'd understand what we need to do. We'd go looking for solutions that could exist out there and talk to other business owners. So one of my clients, he did something very similar to this, a number of years ago, and they use monday.com. And the reason they use Monday is it's so flexible because they can actually build other solutions on top of it. And he's built time management tools on the top of monday.com. He's built... Jason Turner: Mm-hmm. Granger Forson: tracking tools for customer projects, which is designed for, but specifically for his niche marketplace that he's working with. So sometimes there are tools out there that have great flexibility, but they look a little bit complex to start with. You I look at Monday and initially go, yeah, but it has a huge range of abilities to change things. But Jason Turner: Mm-hmm. Granger Forson: it's the time, not knowing what you truly want. And also just talking to others, find out from other people of what they need. Now, as you rightly say, if you can't fix the problem because the systems don't exist, then you need to connect them together and tools like Zapier are really, really ideal for that. any other thoughts of how they could solve this problem? Jason Turner: just just I think that that would kind of process that process efficiency, right? So where that data's leaking, is there a better way to to process that? Is there a better way of capturing that data initially? you know, you could potentially capture it in one source and have it in two or three different data sets. So you know, rather than copying and pasting it from one system to another, is there a more effective way of capturing it at point A and it going into all these other data sets along the way, potentially. I know there's some data sets you can capture it through an email. So it might be that you can just forward it to an email address and actually it extracts the data that is required from that email and puts it into a a CRM kind of style form as well. That there are options available. I'm by no means a tech expert, but I'm kind of learning all this over the last few months myself because I'm very interested in I know you mentioned the the website earlier. I'm not a huge fan our new website, to be honest with you. It's quite limiting for me. it's been designed in a way that means I can't do too much to it. And I like to be quite hands-on with my website. So there's a good chance we'll look at getting a new, but this is where I'm looking at a new front end, the data sets, how it all connects, logins, client portals, all that kind of fun stuff. has to all come together, but there's not one easy solution for it. It's gonna be multiple companies. third parties, link in softwares, communicators, databases, you know, all that kind of stuff. It has all got to work together, which is why you can understand why software developers charge so much now, because it's a constant a constant monitoring of of the data to make sure that it all flows correctly. Granger Forson: And now there's now on top of that there's AI. And Jason Turner: Yes. Granger Forson: actually, you There is a lot you can do by just going to ask AI. Gemini can actually teach you how to use Zapier. So can Jason Turner: Yeah. Granger Forson: GPT. It can help you fix those problems that taking place. It can challenge you to understand your own systems better. We think AI is about prompting, but actually there's some great questions you can ask it how to improve your own flow, improve the connectivity between different systems, or even how you could enhance and use your own system that you have today. So yeah, so use AI too. So where would you start? What was the first things you would go about doing say next week? Jason Turner: next week, I have got in terms of like that process efficiency stuff, there's a a load of stuff that I know we could do better in terms of communicating to customers, in terms of making that customer journey from the point in which they get in contact with us for a quote to onboarding and then how it looks to do their accounts every year. that's a process that I'm constantly trying to better and be one step ahead of you know, the competition and try to make sure that our customers are happy. That we're delivering all the information that they need, et cetera, but also trying to automate that in a way that doesn't take too much of our own staff time for the processor that could just be automated. so yeah, a lot of that stuff. So that is kind of what I'm what I'm working on at the minute. as well as that, we're in a quite a fortunate position that you know I'm looking at expanding our business and I know we spoke about marketing as as being a method of growing our customer base. I'm also quite interested and excited about the idea of acquiring a smaller company. so I'm kind of in the in the market as well at the moment to purchase a small, maybe sole trader, independent bookkeeper or accountant kind of portfolio, somebody that's looking to exit the industry. so that is something that's on my to do list as well, to try to find a nice a nice small company that I can I can acquire. Granger Forson: Fantastic. Wow, very exciting. and I totally agree that the first step is always the customer journey. How can you simplify it for your customers, add more value to your customers, and then how can you make it faster for your customers? And when you're doing Jason Turner: Yeah. Granger Forson: that, you'll then discover solutions that make yourselves more efficient, that make yourselves more organized. So I would say to this listener that wrote in with this question is start with the customer journey first, not internally with your own processes, and see how you can enrich and make that better. Jason Turner: Yeah, it's it's that linking that to your brand as well and trying to get get the brand out there. not so long ago we became comp with companies house. I don't know if you're aware, I'm sure you are. With companies house, you now need to verify your identity with company's house in order to continue running your business. So we were approved Granger Forson: Yes. Yep. Yes. Jason Turner: as as a company's house agent. So we were able to verify people's identity that struggle to do it through the conventional company's house model. So we've done quite a large number. We were at the top of h of company's house list at one point. So we had a lot of inquiries about people wanting their ID verified. and from that, where we've simply I you know verified somebody's ID, we've actually had people come to us and say, Your process of verifying my ID was so efficient and it was so well structured that actually we want to quote for our accounts. So, you know, just that mere Granger Forson: Fantastic. Yeah. Jason Turner: bit of verifying someone's ID and the communication that we've had in the customer journey and experience there, they actually want to quote from us to see what we'd be like to, you know, manage the actual company financial. So that's been a real, a real positive for us as well. Granger Forson: Fantastic, yes, delighting customers can lead to further revenue Jason Turner: Mm. Granger Forson: opportunities with customers. So brilliant, what Jason Turner: Absolutely. Granger Forson: a fantastic way of closing this part of the conversation. So let's move into our wrap up and close now. So Jason, what did you hear yourself say today that maybe surprised you? Jason Turner: a lot of the tech stuff, to be honest with you, I've only been looking at it for the last few months, but I I've kind of recognized that in our business we need to be more tech savvy. The future is gonna be technology for financial information. HMRC are mandating it, there's no way of getting away from it. If you're a sole trader now and you earn over 50,000 pounds a year, making tax digital has to be done for your 26, 27 self-assessment. so yeah, get getting that getting your head around that tech. And trying to understand that is is kind of what's impressed me about my conversation today, that I knew all this stuff like APIs and webhooks and tech tech layering and stuff. So yeah. Granger Forson: Brilliant, fantastic. And finally Jason, how can people find out more about you if they want to follow more of your journey? Jason Turner: Yeah, cool. So turnabray.co.uk is our website. All of our socials are on there because I can't remember the exact at handles. but we're on Instagram, we're TikTok, we're on Facebook. I tend to post every now and again useful accounting information. If you are looking to follow somebody that that can provide a little bit of finance insight, etc., then do follow me. yeah, we'll be very very much looking forward to growing our channels as well. So Thank you very much for the invite today as well. I really do appreciate you getting in touch Granger Forson: Yeah. Pleasure. Jason Turner: and hopefully I've added some insight for your listeners today as well. Granger Forson: You sure have. Thank you, Jason, so much for being open and honest in the conversation. I definitely know our owner listeners will have a lot from this conversation. It's been fantastic. Thank you so much. Jason Turner: Yeah, you're very welcome. Thank you so much. Granger Forson: Thanks for spending your time with us today. We're on a mission to make business owners stronger together. If this conversation has helped you, then please comment, follow and like on whatever platform you're using. About 60 % of our audience hasn't done this yet and these small actions will help us reach more business owners just like you. If you want to join in this conversation as a guest or if you have a hurdle question for us to discuss, reach out at info at strongerbusinesstogether.com. Now. Go make this next week really successful and we'll see you next time. Cheers!