Latest / Honey Badger Radio / CALL IN SHOW! Speaking to BlueOrange22 on the Diversity of the Men's Movement | Brian's Badger Lodge

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CALL IN SHOW! Speaking to BlueOrange22 on the Diversity of the Men's Movement | Brian's Badger Lodge · Honey Badger Radio

• 0:00
  Hello everybody, and welcome to Honey Badger Radio. My name is Brian and
• 0:03
  this is Brian's Badger Lodge, the call in show that I used to do
• 0:09
  it like at least once a month, so I'm gonna try and make that
• 0:14
  a regular thing. We will have a little chat about stuff going on,
• 0:19
  you know, dealing with men's issues or maybe something that's on our mind,
• 0:23
  maybe something about marriage or divorce or child custody or whatever it is, and
• 0:28
  then we'll take calls from you. You you can either respond to what we're
• 0:31
  talking about, or you might have something completely different that you want to you
• 0:35
  know, bring up or or propose, or you have a question, you
• 0:39
  have a statement, whatever it is. You know. Um, I hope
• 0:43
  to hear from you. I already know that we do have a person like
• 0:46
  that's waiting to to, you know, to give us a comment. They
• 0:52
  want to tell a story, so we'll definitely bring them on. But first
• 0:57
  I just want to introduce, uh, well, should call you Blue,
• 1:00
  Orange, Funy two or do you like? I know, I know your
• 1:04
  name, but I don't know if that's like okay, you know, are
• 1:10
  you there? Okay? So Thomas or Blue? All right? I'm just
• 1:22
  checking. H are you let me just make sure your audio is coming out?
• 1:27
  Can you say something? I just want to see if it's broadcasting?
• 1:34
  All right, but yeah, let me there does seem to be an issue.
• 1:42
  It's okay, I'll figure it out. Sorry, guys. And my
• 1:46
  communications audio is supposed to pick up your audio, but for some reason it's
• 1:53
  not. So um, it's this is such a mess, I swear.
• 1:59
  Okay, So where's discord auxiliary input? Okay, maybe that's where it is?
• 2:07
  Hold on, hella, la la la. All right, now say
• 2:12
  something okay, um all, I'm gonna try one more thing here. Sorry,
• 2:31
  all right, how about now? Okay, Um, I am having
• 2:46
  problems. We'll get there. Yeah, I'm I'm sorry, guys, I'm
• 2:49
  gonna it's I had to redo all my audio settings. Um, and it's
• 2:55
  kind of a mess. And I'm sorry, but I didn't want to start
• 2:58
  this too late. So we're gonna go back to this and we're gonna try
• 3:01
  a couple of things. So, um, let me see would you tell
• 3:10
  me, like, because just just because I want to pick up I want
• 3:15
  to see where your audio is coming out because I can hear you but my
• 3:16
  audience can't, So tell me um, your name again. Ah, there
• 3:25
  it is. Okay, I see it now. Um, all right,
• 3:32
  so now I know where it is and it's cable D input. So I
• 3:39
  just need to go here and find cable D input because and I think that
• 3:45
  should work. Okay, go ahead, he got it, got it,
• 3:51
  got it? Okay, thank you, Sorry guys. Okay. So,
• 3:53
  UM, so I guess like the reason why I wanted I've had you on
• 4:00
  the show. I think at least two times before. I'm is that is
• 4:04
  that right? I think? So yeah, at least at least once.
• 4:11
  Okay, And I remember we talked because and it's really interesting because I think
• 4:16
  the last time we spoke you were on a minority report or a majority report
• 4:23
  with Sam Cedar. Yep, that was a while ago, and you know,
• 4:29
  you guys had like a back and forth on men's issues and all that,
• 4:34
  and UM, since then, I guess like wondering, like, what
• 4:40
  kind of work have you been doing since then? I've really been doing kind
• 4:46
  of a lot of the same. Um, writing articles, making videos,
• 4:49
  trying to talk to people, trying to go on social media, and trying
• 4:54
  to get the message out that the men's rights movement is about equality. Um,
• 4:58
  it's not a misogynist group. It's not some hardcore right wing group.
• 5:03
  And last year things were very busy with the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard story.
• 5:11
  And I hate to say that that story was a milestone moment, but
• 5:15
  it was the first time for a lot of people to see yeah wow,
• 5:18
  okay, yeah, man artists comminated against and not to go on an anti
• 5:24
  feminist tangent, but a lot of people were seeing for the first time mainstream
• 5:29
  feminist figures and organizations supporting Amber Heard and going, wait a minute, they're
• 5:32
  supporting an abuser. That's not right. Yeah. Yeah, we've covered the
• 5:39
  Johnny Depp Amber Heard trial. The trial is actually taking place here in Virginia.
• 5:45
  And I actually went to the court on the day of the sentencing or
• 5:48
  we're not the sentencing but the verdict or whatever. And well, you know,
• 5:55
  Amber Heard and Johnny Depp weren't there or their lawyers were there, but
• 5:57
  I did get to meet the lawyers. So you guys might know about that
• 6:00
  that going viral. It was here in Virginia. It was about two or
• 6:04
  three hour drive for me, so anyway, but yeah, we were following
• 6:09
  it closely, so out of curiosity, okay, Um, is there any
• 6:14
  reason to think that the Men's movement is not about equality in your mind?
• 6:23
  No, not if you have an honest and accurate understanding of it. No.
• 6:26
  I mean, if you are reading distortions and slanders and lies in the
• 6:30
  media and you don't know any better than I suppose, you can be tricked
• 6:33
  into thinking that. But no, there's no good reason to think that,
• 6:38
  right um, and uh so, because like you're you're what you want to
• 6:45
  do. It seems in my from what I can see, is that you
• 6:48
  want to sort of like preserve the image of the MRM so that it isn't
• 6:58
  like prone to, you know, the the image that it currently has.
• 7:02
  Right. Yes, I really want to make us palatable and make us mainstream.
• 7:12
  And I do think that's beginning to happen. I think that people are
• 7:15
  starting to realize that something's up, and people are beginning to pay more attention
• 7:18
  to us. And the reception that I get now, let's say a place
• 7:24
  like Reddit or Twitter, right, places that you might say kind of lean
• 7:29
  left for the most part, the reception I would get now if I use
• 7:32
  the term men's rights is much more favorable than it was, say in twenty
• 7:38
  seventeen, do you think the change is happening? Yeah? Do you think
• 7:42
  it's because the people in the movement are different, or do you think it's
• 7:48
  because the anti you know, men male propaganda is starting to wear out?
• 7:58
  Or like, what do you think it is? Do you think that we've
• 8:00
  changed or do you think that people are starting to just wake up? I
• 8:05
  think it's more the second one. I think people are starting to wake up.
• 8:09
  I think having been in the Zarex movement since high school, so for
• 8:13
  over a decade, I think that we're starting to evolve. But I don't
• 8:20
  think our values have changed. I think we're better at getting our message across,
• 8:24
  but I don't think MRIs have really changed all that much. So I
• 8:26
  think it's mostly people are starting to wake up and just the mensarects movement getting
• 8:30
  bigger. All right, I'm asking these questions because you know, you said
• 8:37
  that you believe that the MRM is actually about a quality. So okay,
• 8:43
  so I'm going to ask you this, what does equality mean to you?
• 8:50
  Equality means that your gender and the way you were born doesn't count against you
• 8:56
  in something. It doesn't create any disadvantage under law or by social standards.
• 9:03
  Now there are going to be some differences you can't help, such as sports
• 9:09
  and athletics. But equality to me means that the education system is equal,
• 9:13
  opportunity employment laws are the same. People have the same civil rights, and
• 9:18
  they have the same rights in general, and they're just equal under law.
• 9:22
  Right. So to you, it's it's just, you know, I want
• 9:26
  to make sure that I understand your position. It's it's about equality in terms
• 9:33
  of the law, right, in terms of not necessarily trying to create,
• 9:39
  like, um, not trying to sort of like you know, put your
• 9:43
  finger on the scales to like make sure that everything is the same, but
• 9:46
  rather just to make sure that everyone's treated fairly. It's about fairness and justice.
• 9:50
  Is that right? In general? I don't like the idea so much
• 9:56
  of putting your finger on the scale. Now that said, you know,
• 10:00
  sometimes you have to look at inequalities that are not necessarily inequalities under law,
• 10:05
  such as the education gap, boys falling behind in school, boys less likely
• 10:09
  to graduate, boys less likely to go to college, men more likely to
• 10:13
  be homeless. There's no law that says boys have to fall behind in school,
• 10:18
  and yet they are anyway. So some of the issues and inequalities are
• 10:22
  social issues. Why do you think, why do you think boys are falling
• 10:24
  behind school Well, there's direct evidence. More than one study has shown that
• 10:31
  boys get lower grades than girls for exactly the same work. I think that
• 10:37
  the education system is hostile to boys and maleness in general. It's a fact
• 10:43
  that there are more scholarships available for girls and boys in the United States.
• 10:48
  Ye, And when you look at the university system, it doesn't seem it.
• 10:54
  If you were to be an MRA, for example, and talk about
• 10:58
  men's rights on a college campus, you would be demonized, maybe less so
• 11:03
  now than five years ago, but you would still have a tough time going,
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  whereas having feminist groups is the norm. Though clearly the university system is
• 11:13
  welcoming, is more welcoming of one philosophy and ideology than it is to another.
• 11:18
  And if universities are open to talking about women's issues but very hostile to
• 11:22
  talk about men's issues, well it would logically follow them that universities are less
• 11:28
  open to men, I would argue, and I'm not saying that you're not
• 11:33
  saying this, but I'm just adding to what you're saying. Education is feminist.
• 11:37
  It's not that it's like biased in that direction. It is from the
• 11:41
  ground up a feminist institution because think about it like this, generations of people
• 11:48
  have gone to public education and they go from there to high school into college,
• 11:54
  and they all learn about the patriarchy and this like way of viewing the
• 12:00
  world that is through a feminist lens, and many of them end up going
• 12:05
  right back into academia to teach. So they're going to bring that religion with
• 12:09
  them. And so that I think that it's not just a you know,
• 12:16
  like a slant or you know, if they knew that boys need like,
• 12:20
  you know, certain they have a different way of learning, or we need
• 12:24
  to be more accommodating, it's not that. It's that it's from the ground
• 12:28
  up. It's built on this foundation. The feminist foundation is in every pore
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  of academia, of the intelligentsia, of our political sphere, of everything,
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  and so it's people treat it like it's not even feminism because they think it's
• 12:46
  the norm, it's just the way the world is. But it's not right.
• 12:48
  So that's why I asked you about, like why do you think boys
• 12:52
  are failing because they are, Like you said, the education system is hostile
• 12:58
  towards boyhood and masculinity and the style of teaching. It's not just that,
• 13:05
  like there's bias from teachers to boy you know, to male students. But
• 13:09
  more than that, it's the way that that children are taught that is favorable
• 13:13
  to girls and it moves away from boys. You know, Like when I
• 13:16
  was a kid in school, I would read about Greek mythology. I would
• 13:22
  read adventure stories. I read Treasure Island, I read The Time Machine.
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  You know, these kinds of like the kinds of stories that boys like that
• 13:31
  they get excited about, and today, like none of that is in schools.
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  Like I went, I did substitute teaching for like a year, like
• 13:41
  last year or something before I got really sick, and I was looking at
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  what the kids were reading and it was stuff I never heard of, for
• 13:48
  one, So there was no literature, you know, it was all it
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  was all very dumb down. But more than that, it was about It
• 13:54
  was the kind of stuff that girls liked. It was about you know,
• 13:56
  social interactions and relationships and things. And I'm not saying those are bad.
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  I think that it's you know, when I went to school, we read
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  both kinds. But it's just not hater towards boys. And so as a
• 14:07
  consequence of that, because feminists often had this one size fits all kind of
• 14:13
  ideology of how people should learn, and of course it happens to be the
• 14:16
  feminine way. M boys are not grasping onto those things as quickly. And
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  by the way, this isn't really good for girls either. So I'm not
• 14:24
  saying that I think school has lots of problems, but um, but yes,
• 14:28
  that's just one of those. That's one of those issues. Right do
• 14:33
  you do you see what I'm saying? Oh, yeah, no exactly.
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  So, Um, if you were to, let's say you had the authority
• 14:43
  to do this, Okay, how what would you propose as a change,
• 14:50
  Like, because we can't really go and like fire all the teachers, So
• 14:56
  like what what what kind of things do you think would need to change for
• 15:01
  you know, boys were getting the kind of education that they will you know,
• 15:05
  that will first of all be useful to them, Second of all,
• 15:07
  not teach them to hate themselves for being born male, and will actually like
• 15:13
  you know, give them like a craving or a desire to continue to learn
• 15:18
  and expand. Well, I mean where would I start? I think first
• 15:24
  of all, I would make a more standardized curriculum, and I would make
• 15:30
  tests and exams that are more objectively answered. So let's say perhaps scantron exams
• 15:35
  whenever possible, And I would initially look for those teachers that do have a
• 15:41
  bias, and then maybe you could fire those teachers, or the very least,
• 15:45
  you could have a training program for teachers to be aware of the gender
• 15:50
  the gender grading bias, which is rather significant in some states. I've seen
• 15:54
  boys are an entire half grade level below five to seven points below or the
• 16:00
  exact same work. I would try and encourage more male teachers. I saw
• 16:04
  a Reddit post that was saying something like I don't remember what state it was
• 16:10
  in, but it was something like nine out of ten primary schools have no
• 16:12
  male teachers. Yeah, I don't remember exactly where that is, but I've
• 16:15
  seen a lot of a lot of statistics on that. But there's not as
• 16:18
  many male teachers. So when you say when you say encourage male teachers,
• 16:22
  are you saying encourage more men to be teachers or are you saying, like,
• 16:27
  encourage at schools hire more men to be teachers. I suppose both.
• 16:33
  Yeah, So why do you think men aren't teaching? Because I had male
• 16:37
  teachers when I was a kid. That was back in the eighties. But
• 16:41
  you're right. I mean when I was when I would substitute teacher here in
• 16:45
  Virginia, which isn't you know, it's it's not like a democratic stronghold or
• 16:48
  anything. The women that worked there would say, oh, it's so nice
• 16:53
  to have a man here, Like there were no men in the schools where
• 16:56
  I worked, which is I mean except as secure guards, you know.
• 17:02
  So why do you think there are so few male teachers these days? It's
• 17:07
  funny because in high school I actually had a pretty decent gender balance. But
• 17:12
  that's a very interesting question. I've seen a lot of anecdotes from men who
• 17:18
  say that when they are a teacher or applying to be a teacher, they're
• 17:22
  perceived as creepy, and that the female teachers give them dirty looks. By
• 17:26
  no means is this everywhere. I'm not saying this happens all the time,
• 17:29
  but this does happen often enough so that I've read about it multiple times,
• 17:33
  where if a man says that he wants to be a primary school teacher,
• 17:37
  he's viewed upon with suspicion. I guess in a way because you don't see
• 17:41
  many primary school male teachers. I guess people might you know, think,
• 17:45
  hey, that's different. You don't see that very much. But that's a
• 17:49
  good question. Why don't men become teachers more often? I mean, well,
• 17:52
  maybe some of it is socially. I think that a lot of men
• 17:56
  do. Like I said, when I was a kid, I had male
• 17:57
  teachers. Um actually the only the only teacher I had that taught us about
• 18:04
  like, um, really interesting things for me as a kid, like you
• 18:08
  know, about communism, about George Orwell was a male teacher, Like he
• 18:15
  was the only one that really got and he like, I mean, he
• 18:18
  was just my favorite teacher. He was like an award winning guy, you
• 18:22
  know at the time. But but I think that you're right. I think
• 18:25
  the reason is because they there there has been a climate of fear and suspicion
• 18:30
  around men and there um and them being around children, right uh, and
• 18:37
  so like there is this assumption and it's not it's not one of those things
• 18:41
  that's founded in in you know, in reality. I mean, there's bad
• 18:45
  actors in every sphere of both genders. And if you look at how many
• 18:49
  stories we have covered on female teachers that have raped their students, which usually
• 18:55
  gets sort of rebranded as had an affair with or you know, they did
• 19:00
  a fling, Like they don't even frame it in the same way that they
• 19:03
  would if it was a man. Then there's no wonder that fewer men get
• 19:07
  the job because that narrative that isn't based in reality starts to like it takes
• 19:11
  over. But then it also makes other men not want to apply because they're
• 19:17
  like, well I don't want to be seeing that way. So and I
• 19:21
  mean, like it used to be, you could find just as just as
• 19:23
  uh well women were always doing it more, but you would find definitely more
• 19:29
  men, you know, even in preschool. So yeah, I mean I
• 19:37
  think if boys grew up seeing more male teachers, I think they would be
• 19:44
  much less likely to accept the misandristic indoctrination. Thinks that much seeing more male
• 19:52
  teachers would make them more resilient to the brainwashing. Well yeah, well,
• 19:57
  the thing is is that you're you're hitting on something that I think is really
• 20:02
  going on. Is that, like the thing is if a man or a
• 20:07
  boy is being trained, educated, fathered, you know, um, learning
• 20:15
  about the world from men from other men who have nothing but those good intentions
• 20:21
  to help develop that boy he's going to be more, um, let's say
• 20:25
  resilient. As you said, I think that's where they learn it, right,
• 20:29
  So, and that isn't good for authoritarians that like want to control people's
• 20:34
  behavior. So we we feminize boys in our education system. That's just the
• 20:40
  truth of it. And so and if you like say, well, you
• 20:41
  know what, I want to let boys be boys, I want to let
• 20:45
  men be men. Okay, they would frame that as a dangerous, like
• 20:52
  right wing position. And so this kind of like culminates in what I'm sort
• 20:57
  of driving at is, you know, why do you think what is the
• 21:03
  what is the problem with framing I guess the men's issues movement as a right
• 21:11
  wing thing because I think that people have this knee jerk, revulsive like reaction
• 21:17
  to that and they want to do whatever they can they get away from that
• 21:19
  label. And so I'm wondering why, why is that a problem. Well,
• 21:26
  there's a lot of MRIs who wouldn't consider themselves right wing. There's a
• 21:30
  very popular community on Reddit called left wing Male Advocates. And I want the
• 21:34
  men's rights movement to be open to anyone who supports equality for men and boys.
• 21:40
  You know, I don't think that having more male teachers is a right
• 21:42
  wing idea. I don't think that seeing the education gap is a right wing
• 21:47
  idea or a left wing idea, you know. I think it's about looking
• 21:49
  at specific issues at affect men and boys and solving them. I don't see
• 21:53
  too many right wing politicians fixing them any more than left wing politicians. So
• 21:57
  no, I don't see the men's rights as partisan or political in that way.
• 22:03
  I also wouldn't want to push away someone who wants to help men's rights
• 22:07
  if they're coming from a liberal perspective. Now, it is true that when
• 22:12
  we talk about problematic feminist organizations and I want to specify what I mean,
• 22:18
  doesn't mean that I am against the definition of feminism. The definition of feminism
• 22:22
  is great, sure, But when you look at the actual specific words and
• 22:26
  actions of specific feminist organizations such as the National Organization for Women, such as
• 22:33
  Charlotte Proudman, mainstream feminist organizations, the things that they support do not align
• 22:40
  with equality, and you see feminist organizations resist legal equality for men. Be
• 22:45
  specific, because I know feminists are going to want a specific example. In
• 22:48
  my state of Florida, the National word for Women fought against alimony reform,
• 22:55
  which would have protected men who one case was a seventy two year old man
• 23:00
  with Alzheimer's who couldn't get proper healthcare because he was paying permanent alimony to an
• 23:06
  ex wife from decades ago who would already be remarried anyway. But because it
• 23:10
  was framed as helping men now, was against it. All of these feminist
• 23:15
  groups, virtually of them, are aligned with the left and do support left
• 23:19
  wing parties. So I think that's maybe part of why the men's rights movement
• 23:25
  is perceived as right wing, because the strongest opponents of the men's rights movement
• 23:30
  or a left wing And whenever you see a very Sandrias thick law being proposed,
• 23:38
  nine times out of ten it came from a left wing party, not
• 23:41
  always, because the right wing has left us down plenty of times as well.
• 23:45
  So I think that's part of the perception of it. Yeah, why
• 23:49
  do you feel the need to Let's say, I don't know how to put
• 23:56
  it. I know what you when you say say I agree with the definition
• 24:00
  of feminism, like the real definition. Okay, I know what you're driving
• 24:04
  at. But I will ask this, why does it matter that it's called
• 24:10
  feminism. So like, see, here's what I believe. Okay, I
• 24:12
  believe that everyone should be treated justly. I wouldn't even see say fairly because
• 24:18
  I don't think fairness and that's just not a real thing. I think there's
• 24:22
  just justice. Right, So that's just what is what giving people, what
• 24:26
  is their due, and that's what we don't have, and it's it's heavily
• 24:32
  against men, right, um, and the the the social things and the
• 24:37
  cultural things that are a problem. We have to work on those as individuals,
• 24:42
  maybe you know, in our communities or whatever. So there's there's no
• 24:45
  like, there's no point in lobbying for those things except maybe to you know,
• 24:51
  just tell people, hey, you know, like here, I don't
• 24:55
  know, like whatever it is, right, just be considerate to you know,
• 24:59
  the men who on Memorial Day that died so that we can live in
• 25:03
  this country, or the men who you know, go it fight overseas,
• 25:07
  the men that were drafted into this Ukraine Russia war, you know, on
• 25:11
  either side. Right, Like those things you can't make into a law for,
• 25:17
  but you can certainly give some you know, lip service to. But
• 25:21
  and I would say the same thing for women. I believe that women should
• 25:23
  be treated fairly. I think that they should. They deserve justice, but
• 25:26
  I won't call that feminism because feminism is something else. It's based in.
• 25:32
  This is the thing, okay, And I know you're you may not agree,
• 25:34
  because I know lots of MRAs that don't agree with this point. Feminism
• 25:40
  is not about equality. That's why they never behave in the way that they
• 25:44
  claim. What they do is they lie to us. I'm saying it's about
• 25:48
  that, right, but they don't do that. The way it actually manifests
• 25:52
  is and it doesn't even benefit women, by the way, you know,
• 25:56
  it's just to benefit the people who call themselves feminists. It's just so that
• 26:00
  they make money off of it. They get government grants, they get corporate
• 26:03
  sponsorships, they get all these things, and they use female victimhood to get
• 26:10
  it. And it's all based in no matter what wave of feminism you're talking
• 26:15
  about, even if you go before we even called it feminism, but the
• 26:18
  behavior was there, Okay. It's based on this false notion that men have
• 26:23
  historically oppressed women to the detriment of women and to the benefit of themselves,
• 26:29
  and that has never ever been true ever. But that's the basis and a
• 26:33
  lot of people believe it, Like normal people who wouldn't call themselves anything.
• 26:36
  If you ask them, do you think that, you know, men have
• 26:38
  historically oppressed women? Most people would say yes, even if they don't call
• 26:41
  themselves feminists. So this is how ubiquitous this has become. Like you can't
• 26:48
  even like get somebody. I mean, I've managed to change a few minds,
• 26:52
  you know, by saying, look, why if men were at what
• 26:56
  feminists say they were, how are there still women around today? You know,
• 27:00
  like it does It doesn't make Why are men the ones dying in wars?
• 27:03
  Why are men the ones that you know are building our societies and like
• 27:07
  making sure everything runs? And why like why would they do that when they
• 27:11
  could just be making women do it? I mean, because it's not true
• 27:15
  feminists. I can feminists start a feminist union at a university, but an
• 27:21
  MRA can't. I mean, you look at which gender is allowed to do
• 27:23
  things which gender is not, which gender is forced to do things which gender
• 27:27
  is not, and the feminist narrative falls apart very very quickly. And by
• 27:30
  the way, I completely agree that feminism is not about equality when you look
• 27:34
  at how it's been practiced feminist theory is completely and entirely made up. Yeah,
• 27:41
  and it is. It is the sixties. It's based on a hateful,
• 27:45
  a hateful lie about not just men, but the relationship between men and
• 27:51
  women, and it was designed to destroy the family. And it just like
• 27:56
  it's basically halfway there, Like one of them will write a master's thesis in
• 28:02
  nineteen sixty five, and then another one will write a master's thesis in nineteen
• 28:04
  seventy five, and then cite that paper, and then all of a sudden
• 28:07
  it becomes a proper academic material. Yeah, it's not. It's just completely
• 28:11
  made up. They just go up terms like patriarchy or systems of oppression or
• 28:17
  intersection, right, and it's not scientific. It's really made up. It's
• 28:19
  so total nonsense. So here, So here's the thing I don't know about
• 28:23
  your I know that there are leftist MRAs, okay, but I don't know
• 28:27
  if they've really thought through why they why they consider themselves that because the entire
• 28:33
  feminist structure is a leftist structure. The whole hierarchy, the whole inverted hierarchy,
• 28:37
  the whole intersectional thing, the all the identity politics. That's where it
• 28:41
  comes from. And that is like the weapon that the left uses. So
• 28:47
  again you I'm not saying you have to call yourself anything. I mean,
• 28:49
  at the end of the day, all that matters to me is like if
• 28:52
  you like, you know, want to help men and into what degree.
• 28:57
  But the thing is is that the way that things are going from from from
• 29:02
  the left. Okay, they are going to make men into a slave class
• 29:07
  because that's kind of what they've done. Think about this, Okay, ever
• 29:11
  since Lynda B. Johnson started the Great Society, women have benefited from from
• 29:18
  taxation, so they get a net benefit and men pay into it. So
• 29:22
  they're already doing that. So men are losing their money through the state.
• 29:27
  Of course, we know, we call it taxes. We say it's necessary
• 29:30
  and all that. But the but at the at the bottom line, what's
• 29:33
  happening is men's resources are being taken from them and given to women. And
• 29:40
  while that's happening, men are still willing to give the resources that they have
• 29:45
  left to women. So it's like, and this doesn't help either side because
• 29:49
  you know, men will break themselves trying to like stay afloat financially and women
• 29:55
  won't learn like actual like you know, and uh, the ability to staying
• 30:00
  themselves. And on top of that, like they're gonna have trouble forming families
• 30:04
  because again they're disincentivized. You know. Like, let's I grew up in
• 30:10
  Chicago and I lived on the West Side in a minority neighborhood. It was
• 30:15
  a ghetto, you know. I went to school in the ghetto and it
• 30:18
  was like it was a brutal place to live, okay, And there were
• 30:23
  all these gangs where the Latin kings we had the gangs for disciples. These
• 30:27
  were like the biggest gangs in the city, you know. And it was
• 30:30
  all this violence and it was rampant with single motherhood and there were no fathers
• 30:36
  present, and there were no families being formed. And why was that.
• 30:40
  Well, the truth is is that the women, if they became a mother,
• 30:45
  the state would give them more money. And if they had if they
• 30:48
  had multiple kids and the father wasn't in the home, they would get even
• 30:51
  more. So there was no incentive for them to foreign families. And what
• 30:55
  does that do, Well, it damages the children. Those single mothers are
• 30:59
  more likely to abuse their children or at least, like you know, they're
• 31:03
  more vulnerable because the single mother can't watch them twenty four seven, and so,
• 31:07
  you know, the kids get into trouble, they go out in the
• 31:10
  streets, the boys join gangs. They're looking for, you know, someone
• 31:14
  to show them how to be a man. The mother can't do it.
• 31:17
  They're the little girls. They hit puberty earlier, they become sexually active,
• 31:21
  they get pregnant, and it continues. And so it's like, and I'm
• 31:26
  you know, this is the actual product of that. And these programs are
• 31:33
  leftist programs. So again not saying that, I'm sure the people that you
• 31:37
  know are fine, but I don't know if they plan on addressing that,
• 31:40
  because if they do, then they will be called right wing anyway. And
• 31:44
  so what I'm what I think where I ultimately land on this is it doesn't
• 31:48
  matter. Like it doesn't You can be the nicest left wing guy in the
• 31:52
  world that wants to help people if you don't tow the line your right wing
• 31:56
  to them. I don't know if you noticed, but like it's like it's
• 32:00
  I don't account because yeah, what you just said is actually a very common
• 32:07
  recurring theme in that very community, saying you know, like I step out
• 32:09
  a line and all of a sudden, my friends for ten years. Yeah,
• 32:12
  right, Like what, yeah, that's what they do. But the
• 32:15
  truth is most people, um that are not a part of that. They're
• 32:20
  not necessarily right wing. They're just further right than those people are. But
• 32:24
  that either way, like the way I see it, like there's no shame
• 32:29
  in being right wing, I don't. I don't think that's a bad thing
• 32:30
  per se. But um, I think that it's that there's been so much
• 32:35
  propaganda against it that people have this like reaction like well, I'm not one
• 32:39
  of those, you know, But at the same time, it's like,
• 32:43
  well, are you one of these purple haired freaks that thinks gender doesn't exist?
• 32:45
  But still women are victims, Like so, um, it's I think
• 32:51
  that the propaganda that's put out and it's been out for decades and decades,
• 32:55
  so it's not a new thing. We have to um kind of like you
• 33:00
  know, reject it outright and not worry about like where we sit on the
• 33:06
  compass or whatever it is, and just do what is right. And because
• 33:09
  I think the average person doesn't have like a stake in whatever their side is,
• 33:15
  they're just they just want to do what's right and they're trying to exercise
• 33:19
  common sense and That's how I feel about it. You know, I'm I'm
• 33:24
  I'm libertarian minded. I don't think libertarianism is feasible at this juncture because I
• 33:30
  think our culture has been damaged so much by single motherhood and broken families and
• 33:35
  abuse children and pedophiles and all of this other stuff. Right, Um,
• 33:40
  that like, we're not like people can't self govern at this stage. But
• 33:45
  I'd like to move towards that, you know, so that maybe in another
• 33:50
  couple of generations after I'm gone, we will start to move in that direction.
• 33:54
  But but I mean that's right wing. I mean, I'm not like,
• 34:00
  if you're I don't think it should it's right to conflate being pro liberty,
• 34:06
  which is a right wing value, with being conservative, because I think
• 34:08
  those are different things. If that makes sense, Yeah, it doesn't,
• 34:16
  it doesn't. I mean, I don't think that liberty should be considered right
• 34:21
  wing. And to me, it's very telling that it's considered progressive to ignore
• 34:25
  men's issues. What's progressive about demonizing any one gender? I mean, what's
• 34:30
  progressive about? Well, yeah, you're touching on the number one weapon of
• 34:35
  them, which is the control over words. So they're gonna tell you they're
• 34:40
  gonna say words like that sound good like equality, inclusion, diversity, um,
• 34:46
  you know, uh, freedom, but they're but it's all wise like
• 34:51
  like okay, what do you think? And even the word rights is a
• 34:55
  falsity when they use it. What is a right? Can you give an
• 35:00
  example of a right? The right to vote? Okay, that's not a
• 35:07
  right, and I'm gonna tell you why. So a right should be something
• 35:13
  that does not that will not affect anyone else. So, for example,
• 35:17
  the freedom to the freedom of speech is like a basic one right. As
• 35:22
  long as you know you can speak and I can speak, it doesn't matter
• 35:25
  what we say. Words can't hurt us. That's where freedom of speeches it's
• 35:30
  the right to be heard. It's the right, well not necessarily to be
• 35:32
  heard, but to speak, because you don't necessarily have a right to make
• 35:37
  other people listen. That's where that's when it becomes not a right. Right
• 35:42
  like I can say, well, I can go and stand on a soapbox
• 35:45
  and you know, preach about like them. I don't know Cthulhu all day.
• 35:50
  Nobody has to listen, but I'm exercising my right to speak. It's
• 35:53
  also like the right to protect yourself so if someone comes to assault you and
• 36:00
  you protect yourself either with your fists or with a knife or with a gun
• 36:04
  or whatever, that's your right. These are things that do not come at
• 36:07
  anyone else's expense, right, Like your ability to defend yourself does not affect
• 36:12
  me. Your ability to practice your religion does not affect me. Okay.
• 36:15
  But the things that when you ask a feminist or just a leftist about,
• 36:22
  like what rights they want, because they're always fighting for rights. So if
• 36:25
  you say, well, what right do you want that like you don't already
• 36:29
  have that we don't all have right, and they'll say something that is not
• 36:35
  a right. Like I remember when I was in college, So this is
• 36:37
  like a while ago, I was talking in my classroom and I made this
• 36:44
  paper about feminism, and I was expressing my opinions and surprisingly, by the
• 36:49
  way, guys that there were a number of girls in the class that agreed
• 36:53
  with me. But there was one that was really upset by what I had
• 36:58
  said. And and she's said women don't have rights. And I said,
• 37:01
  well, what right do you do you not have that I have? And
• 37:07
  her answer was the right to walk home at night without getting raped. And
• 37:14
  but okay, so we can We can respond to that a couple of ways.
• 37:16
  One is we could say, well, men, actually I'm more likely
• 37:21
  to be victims of violent crime than women. We could say that, but
• 37:24
  that's not crime. Well yeah, I've been well, I lived in the
• 37:30
  hood, I was I've been jumped a number of times. So but okay,
• 37:36
  but we could go that route. But the problem is is that that
• 37:38
  lets her argument stand as feasible. So what instead I said is that's not
• 37:44
  a right. Nobody has a right to be safe, like because it requires
• 37:49
  force to be used on other people. So like in the UK, for
• 37:52
  example, they have like these drone cameras that fly around London watching people to
• 38:00
  protect them from you know, like muggings or rapes or whatever. Right,
• 38:07
  there is a problem with that, it is unethical. But the women folk
• 38:12
  feel safe because now there are drones following them around. Right of course,
• 38:15
  you don't know who's looking and you don't know like to the extent of which
• 38:19
  you know they they have like free reign over you. But the way that
• 38:25
  the way that people like that frame the notion of rights is that it's focused
• 38:32
  on security. It's like when people say you have a right to housing,
• 38:37
  you have a right to healthcare right, Those are not rights either because they
• 38:42
  come at the expense of someone else's labor. So if you say I have
• 38:45
  to have a house, then the only way you're going to get one is
• 38:47
  if you force people to build it. So you know, so that it's
• 38:52
  not a right because you can't make other people give you things. That's called
• 38:57
  slavery. So that that's what I'm talking about, right, And I know
• 39:00
  that it might sound hyperbolic, but that's the truth. Now, the vote,
• 39:04
  this is the reason why I say the votes on a right either.
• 39:07
  The vote is a responsibility and we have thrown it away. Before women's suffrage,
• 39:15
  votes were done by men, but there were two important conditions that came
• 39:22
  with it. One was that they owned property, so their vote was sort
• 39:25
  of like a vote for the household, right, so it's like a vote
• 39:29
  on behalf of that family unit. The other was if they allowed themselves to
• 39:34
  be drafted. And the second one still persists today. So a man's vote,
• 39:40
  which is a responsibility, it means that you have to like be thoughtful
• 39:45
  in who you vote for. It comes with them the possibility of being drafted
• 39:52
  to go to war, and I mean that's not, that's not trivial.
• 39:57
  Really fast on that point, something might be interesting. The UK suffrage movement
• 40:00
  were actually very very pro war and very very pro draft, and even starting
• 40:05
  from nineteen fourteen, before the outbreak of the war, when the top suffragettes
• 40:09
  were writing to Parliament and the King recommending war with Germany, and even when
• 40:14
  it was known how bad the war conditions were, there was a campaign called
• 40:17
  the White Feather Movement where they go around and they would harass men and teenage
• 40:22
  boys. Yes, right, and so okay, so you see where I'm
• 40:25
  where I'm going with this. So like, you're a man, you were
• 40:29
  born in the United States, Oh, yes, I was, Okay,
• 40:34
  when you turned eighteen, did you have to sign up for selective Service?
• 40:39
  Yes? I did? Okay, so did I did? And what did
• 40:43
  they tell you? What would happen if you didn't? That I would lose
• 40:50
  certain rights to do things. I would lose the ability to get to scholarships.
• 40:54
  I'd be risking jail time and or fine, and there were several other
• 40:58
  privileges that I would lose the right to. Also the vote, So the
• 41:04
  vote is conditional for men, like just that's that's not even debatable. So
• 41:08
  it's not a right. It's something that you get, but you have to
• 41:13
  serve. Why is that Well, because people who vote are expected to be
• 41:19
  invested in the future of the country. Right. So if you are are
• 41:23
  if you own property, for example, if you back in the day,
• 41:27
  I'm talking about back in the day, if you owned like a farm and
• 41:29
  you had so much land and you you know, you had um, I
• 41:32
  don't know, herds of cattle or crops or whatever it was. When you
• 41:37
  voted, you were thinking about what was going to be best for your family
• 41:42
  and your property, you know, because you were you weren't just investing in
• 41:45
  your profits or your potential, but you were doing it in the interests of
• 41:52
  your of your legacy, right, your kids and what they go on to
• 41:55
  do and so on. So when you voted, you were to the the
• 42:00
  candidates were you know, looked at very carefully to make sure that whatever,
• 42:05
  you know, they were, whatever they were promising or putting out, there
• 42:08
  was something you were going to vote for if it was in the interests of
• 42:10
  your family and in the country, because you know, like if they were
• 42:14
  like, well, we're just gonna like open up the floodgates and let all
• 42:16
  the illegals in. Well, if you're if you own land, or if
• 42:21
  you're worried about your family, you're not going to vote for that. So
• 42:24
  because you're invested. Now, if you're a young man that doesn't own those
• 42:29
  things, but he has signed up for selective service, you're going to vote
• 42:32
  in a specific way too, because you don't want to go to war.
• 42:36
  So if there's one guy who's like talking about, you know, going to
• 42:38
  war, and as another guy who's trying to avoid it, or you're gonna
• 42:42
  vote for the guy who's trying to avoid it because you don't want to get
• 42:44
  sent off to fight in the war, and because you care about what might
• 42:47
  happen to your family. But when they gave the vote to women, and
• 42:52
  by the way, there was a group of women and I guess suffragets or
• 43:00
  suffragists that were saying that, well, if they didn't want the vote because
• 43:06
  they were afraid that if they got the vote, they would have to be
• 43:07
  drafted and they didn't want to get drafted. So there were women who knew
• 43:12
  this was going to come with something that I'm not willing to risk, right,
• 43:17
  so they didn't want the vote. But what we ended up doing was
• 43:22
  the worst of both worlds. We gave them the vote and none of the
• 43:24
  responsibility. So then what did women do with it? Well, they just
• 43:28
  voted for whatever they wanted. So you see, there's and I'm not saying
• 43:31
  this is a dig on women. This is just the fact. If I
• 43:35
  if I said, one person gets a vote on something and there's no penalties
• 43:39
  for whatever they choose, at least not short term, and one person gets
• 43:44
  the vote on something, but it's conditional and they have to like be ready
• 43:47
  to throw their life away, you know, so they got to pick carefully.
• 43:52
  You're going to get different outcomes. And so why do we have an
• 43:57
  ever expanding welfare state and a safety net that doesn't that seems to be like
• 44:02
  a safety trampoline, because you know, we just keep expanding it, expanding
• 44:07
  it, expanding it, and then people are demanding more stuff and they're calling
• 44:09
  it free even though it isn't. Well it's because we gave women the vote.
• 44:14
  I mean, that's the truth. There's no I'm not saying we take
• 44:17
  it away, but I'm saying we have to like look at that, and
• 44:21
  you know, we have to like really consider that. We don't even um,
• 44:25
  we don't even talk about like the consequences of that, and they're and
• 44:30
  they're all around us. We like, shit got out of hand, you
• 44:34
  know, it escalated quickly. So those are my thoughts on that. That's
• 44:39
  that's why I was talking about what rights are. I know it's a commonly
• 44:44
  used one. It's like women want a right to an abortion. That was
• 44:46
  another thing that, um, I think came up. But first I'm get
• 44:52
  your thoughts on what I said before. I guess yeah, no, Um,
• 44:57
  it's completely true when you say when there's different stakes and different consequences to
• 45:01
  your vote, it's going to get different outcomes to the specific point of the
• 45:06
  draft. I mean, I'm against the draft in general, but whatever the
• 45:08
  draft is going to be, whether we get rid of it or make it
• 45:12
  equal, it should be equal. Absolutely. And you know it's Mark Angelucci.
• 45:16
  It's very Yeah, go ahead. It's just it's very telling. You
• 45:21
  know, when you said that they were suffragettes who didn't want to vote because
• 45:24
  they didn't want the responsibility that came with it. Oh, so you're saying
• 45:30
  the circumstance that women had was better than the circumstances that men had, because
• 45:34
  if men were privileged, then wouldn't you want to trade for the same thing
• 45:37
  instead of that, you wanted to retain what you already had. If you
• 45:40
  were the oppressed gender, why would you want that. So that's that's a
• 45:44
  very telling thing to me, right And like so Mark Angelucci rest in peace.
• 45:50
  Mark F's in the chat. He was a very active men's rights lawyer
• 45:54
  that worked with NCFM. I don't know if you know him or remember this
• 45:59
  guy. He was a huge deal. Yeah. Oh yeah, see he's
• 46:02
  the man. I had dinner with him too at a Hooters. Um.
• 46:07
  Anyway, that's that's nice, that's awesome. So uh, he was fighting
• 46:14
  to um, I think he wanted. What he wanted optimally was to remove
• 46:20
  the draft altogether. But he said but his argument was that if the if
• 46:23
  we're if we're gonna have a draft, then you and and women are going
• 46:27
  to vote, then you have to draft them too, right, And feminists
• 46:30
  fought him on that. They didn't want women getting drafted, but they didn't
• 46:34
  want women losing the vote. So this is what I mean. Like,
• 46:36
  what they say they're about and what they actually do are completely different things.
• 46:40
  So if you I think that what you ultimately think is that you know,
• 46:45
  everybody should be treated fairly. Everybody should be treated justly. Um, that's
• 46:52
  not feminism. So you don't have to use the name. You don't even
• 46:53
  have to give it lip service. You don't have to say well, I
• 46:57
  like the definition. You don't have to do any of that. I mean,
• 47:00
  you're you're free to do whatever you want. But I will never do
• 47:02
  it. I will never say, oh, well, you know, feminism
• 47:07
  back in the this you know decade or this age was good. It wasn't.
• 47:10
  It was never good. It was always rotten. Janisphea Mangoes made tons
• 47:15
  of videos on it. We've talked about on this channel, like I can't
• 47:17
  even begin to say how many times it's just and it's not necessary. We
• 47:23
  don't have to acknowledge it as at all viable. Like I know that it'll
• 47:29
  upset people because I've I've done it, like where you know, I'll be
• 47:32
  talking and I'll just like say, you know, to a woman, I'll
• 47:35
  be like, you don't need feminism, and she'd be like what and she
• 47:38
  thinks of what I'm saying is now put on this you know, handmaid's tail
• 47:42
  dress and go make babies. No, you know, you can, like
• 47:45
  you can live a completely normal life without that at all, Like you don't
• 47:52
  need it at all. So I don't know, you know, if you
• 47:54
  want to say something to that, well I'll say it's also telling to me
• 48:00
  when I said that maris are against the specific words and actions from specific feminist
• 48:07
  organizations and academics. And there are many feminist academics and feminist celebrities and feminist
• 48:13
  groups who say blatantly hateful, miss adriatic crap. Oh, I never hear
• 48:19
  any feminists say, I never hear any feminists contradict that. I never see
• 48:23
  any so called good feminists stand up and say no, no, that's not
• 48:27
  right, that's not good. So we always hear from feminists that, well,
• 48:31
  what we really are is about equality and we're not against men. Okay,
• 48:36
  but when feminists, when when a feminist does say something hostile to men,
• 48:39
  where are you? You're nowhere? Yeah? No, I agree.
• 48:45
  I mean it's it's a it's a it's a shell game, like there's like
• 48:49
  what they claim that they're interested in, they're not well when once you put
• 48:52
  them to the test and and it's it's it's it doesn't matter, like like
• 48:57
  what kind of feminists And you know, frankly, if a woman or man
• 49:00
  who calls himself a feminist, like actually supports what what we argue for without
• 49:07
  bringing in any of this this feminist theory garbage like toxic masculinity in the man
• 49:14
  box and you know all that without doing that, just like, let's just
• 49:17
  deal with this. Let's look at circumcision, Let's look at um, you
• 49:22
  know, child abuse, let's look at false rape allegations, like, let's
• 49:25
  look at the rape of men by women. Let's look at marriage and divorce
• 49:30
  and child custody and false fraternity and like all of these things. Um,
• 49:37
  let's look at all those And if they did, and I wouldn't care what
• 49:39
  they call themselves, I'd probably tell them, you know, you're not actually
• 49:43
  acting like you know, what you claim to be. But but I'm at
• 49:46
  the end of the day, yeah no, you absolutely would. That's exactly
• 49:51
  right. You would. That's that well, and then you just they're gonna
• 49:53
  learn that. I mean, there's there are people who claim to try to
• 49:57
  like, you know, uh, stand on both like on the line and
• 50:00
  you know, ride the fence or whatever. Um, And I think that
• 50:05
  that's that's just not a good idea. It's not necessary either. You don't
• 50:07
  have anything to prove like you you really don't. So if you know there's
• 50:13
  one thing that really annoys me, it's fence sitting where it doesn't belong.
• 50:16
  Um, and that's what happens at best with like you know what what the
• 50:21
  work that we do. But that being said, I do think that things
• 50:24
  are improving. I do think that people are waking up and I do think
• 50:29
  that they're getting sick and tired of all of this girl powershit and I mean,
• 50:32
  you're you're seeing it, you know, more and more. So I
• 50:36
  do think that there is a shift and I think that the word is getting
• 50:38
  out. And having said that, UM, okay, so you said that
• 50:46
  you wanted to and I want to take some calls in the next five minutes,
• 50:50
  so we're gonna take some calls shortly. Um. But you said that
• 50:54
  you wanted to say something about the diversity in the MRM. Well, yeah,
• 51:01
  when we were putting this together, I kind of thought it was about
• 51:07
  the political diversity in terms of people who are conservative and liberal. But I
• 51:10
  also think we should talk about the fact that people have another wrong perception of
• 51:15
  the men's rights movement and that it's a white male movement and that couldn't be
• 51:20
  further from the truth. The man's rights movement is international and affects men and
• 51:24
  boys of all races around the world, and there are many women in the
• 51:29
  men's rights movement. In fact, this very show is run by a team
• 51:31
  of feminist women called the Honey Badgers. When you go to men's right spaces,
• 51:37
  you go to men's right spaces more and more. I'm seeing a gender
• 51:42
  balance, you know, when I go to conferences or you know, zoom
• 51:45
  conferences for various men's organizations, I'm seeing very close to a fifty fifty split.
• 51:51
  I mean, some of the most famous rays in the world are women,
• 51:53
  Karen Strown, Cassie j Elizabeth Hopson. You know you mentioned Janice from
• 51:59
  earlier. So, um, it's it's a complete myth that it's a men's
• 52:02
  movements or even a white men's movement. It's it's and that's they're trying to
• 52:07
  tie it into the far right, and they were trying to link it to
• 52:10
  Oh, it's like a new Nazi. That's just absolutely nonsense. The Nazis
• 52:15
  are left wing. But yeah, I take what you're saying. So why
• 52:19
  do you think, I mean, do you believe that if you could make
• 52:22
  your case that they would change their mind about like you know, us not
• 52:28
  being us being like white supremacists or whatever. I mean, I'm Puerto Rican,
• 52:31
  so like I I've been doing this for ten years, and um,
• 52:37
  I know that, like in my experience, they don't care. They don't
• 52:42
  care that we actually have always been you know, from all walks of life.
• 52:45
  I mean, I've had I've spoken to a guy who came to ICMI
• 52:51
  at twenty nineteen in Chicago, who was from Japan. He spoke, you
• 52:54
  know, he had a really hard time speaking English, but I really wanted
• 52:58
  to talk to him, and he telling me about the problems that they have
• 53:00
  there. I know that South Korea. We've done plenty of stories on South
• 53:05
  Korea, and I have a guy that I talked to that lives in South
• 53:08
  Korea and he shares his experience in India. The men's movement is huge there
• 53:13
  South Korea. It's actually pretty big too. So like to us, it's
• 53:19
  obvious that you know that, not that it should matter, like if it
• 53:22
  came down to it, you know, like, um, back when slavery
• 53:28
  existed, the large number of abolitionists. This is like in the sixteen hundreds
• 53:32
  and so on, they were white guys. So that doesn't make their their
• 53:37
  cause unjust. It doesn't matter, right, and it shouldn't matter, like
• 53:40
  the diversity thing is, that's their thing. But I take what you're saying
• 53:45
  as a way to sort of like refute these claims. But I think that
• 53:50
  it's important to recognize that these people don't care about the truth. You do
• 53:54
  know that, right, A lot of cases, yes, but I have
• 54:00
  changed minds before that softened than not. But it does happen. Well,
• 54:04
  I guess with Normans that that only go off of what the media tells them
• 54:07
  about us. Sure, you know, like I mean, there wasn't There
• 54:12
  was an article, an article a week ago from a woman who was a
• 54:16
  former feminist who was writing an opic. She was now leaving feminism because it's
• 54:20
  become toxic and antimil So there were even some self identifying people came toxic.
• 54:27
  It was always toxic at least she's just seeing it, or she said without
• 54:30
  a line, right, that's when you find out. It's like when you
• 54:35
  step out of line and they attack you. Like that's Aaron Pitsy, right.
• 54:38
  Aaron Pitzy was a feminist. She was like you know, in the
• 54:42
  sixties and she opened up a women's shelter because she was focused on women's issues
• 54:46
  and women's victimhood, and then she realized that, oh shit, women are
• 54:51
  abusive too. I should probably point that out and what happened? I mean,
• 54:54
  you know, so they don't they look, I get it. I
• 54:58
  get it. When I'm talking ormis, I do. I do try to
• 55:01
  appeal to what they're going to be more likely to respond to. But maybe
• 55:07
  I'm just jaded, but I've I've discovered that at the end of the day,
• 55:10
  the people were dealing with and look, they are an obstacle, like
• 55:15
  there is no bones about it. I can talk about what needs to change
• 55:17
  to help men, to help families, to help fathers, to help boys.
• 55:22
  I can do that, so on blue in the Face. And there
• 55:24
  will always be feminist groups and feminist adjacent groups which are all just feminist groups
• 55:32
  in the way, and could because they don't want other people contributing to this
• 55:37
  conversation, because they really don't want to fix anything. They like to see
• 55:40
  it. I don't know, torn asunder. They make money off of it.
• 55:44
  It's a grift some of them. Some of them are just just blatant
• 55:47
  cyclopaths. Yeah, absolutely, well, I mean the prominent ones for sure,
• 55:54
  Charlotte Proudman, Clementine Ford and were As aka feminist next door. Uh,
• 56:00
  Michael Flood m against man's rights. I mean, you know, these
• 56:04
  these people are not being genuine and honest, like they know what they're saying
• 56:08
  is wrong. They're intentionally lying and feminists feminist organizations often lobby and advocate for
• 56:15
  laws, such as in the UK, that would discriminate against male victims,
• 56:20
  which isn't now exactly what happened with Aaron Pizzy. You have to ask.
• 56:23
  You're fine with Aaron opening a women shelter, so what was wrong with opening
• 56:29
  a men shelter? Aaron wasn't saying, oh I'm no longer going to recognize
• 56:34
  female victims. All she was saying is I'm going to also recognize the fact
• 56:37
  that male thicnims exist. Feminists really cared about equality. Why did they have
• 56:43
  a problem with that? What feminists stood up for her? Yeah? Uh,
• 56:49
  okay, So I'm going to start taking calls. You want do you
• 56:52
  want to hang around or do you need to do you need to take off?
• 56:58
  Yeah? Kind of got a good get to work. Okay, All
• 57:00
  right, well I hope that do you have any final thoughts on what we
• 57:05
  talked about. To summarize, If you are watching this right now and you're
• 57:12
  unsure what the men's rights movement believes in, you're concerned that the men's rights
• 57:15
  movement is misogynistic or against women in any way, I would recommend that you
• 57:19
  ask a female MRA what she believes in and why she's in the movement and
• 57:22
  see what her answer is. It may surprise you. Yeah, you have
• 57:27
  to do something amazing, like like what Cassie j did because we talked about
• 57:30
  this, um. I think we were responding to Hannah Cox, who calls
• 57:35
  herself a libertarian feminist, which by the way, is an oxymoron, and
• 57:40
  she talked about what the you know, men's movement was about, and she
• 57:45
  invoked the manisphere as like the thing to draw from which there's overlap, but
• 57:51
  it's not the same. But she she didn't have an interest in learning about
• 57:53
  us, And I was like, well, you see, this is why
• 57:55
  you're you're full of shit, because like Cassie is the only feminist that I
• 58:00
  am aware of, Well that you know, that's sort of like that was
• 58:05
  sort of known that heard, you know, like the the the edgy things
• 58:09
  on the Internet and was like, you know what, I'm gonna look into
• 58:12
  this more. And then she found out, like you know that there was
• 58:15
  a lot more substance there. So, um, that's all. That's all.
• 58:20
  That's what I would say. I would just direct people to watch The
• 58:22
  Red Pill. That's how I would do it, and you know, keep
• 58:24
  it open mind. But like I can't. I can't convert anybody. And
• 58:28
  you know, generally, when I talk to people who are, um,
• 58:30
  my opposition, I'm not really trying to change their minds. I'm trying to
• 58:35
  like get the attention of a person that is uh watching. So okay,
• 58:40
  so he had to leave, I guess, so thanks um Blue Orange twenty
• 58:45
  two for coming. I wanted to bring him on. Now I'm gonna take
• 58:49
  some calls. So we're gonna start, um taking calls and let me look
• 58:53
  at and get my glasses on here. Um no super chats huh you guys
• 58:59
  so cheap? Okay, So we're gonna look at questions. So the first
• 59:02
  one I got is thank you Swashberry by the way, for being our lovely
• 59:09
  screener. If you guys want to join in, there is a link to
• 59:14
  the discord in the description. If you want to, you know, get
• 59:17
  in the queue. I will only spend about five minutes on per call because
• 59:22
  I see that there's like five people waiting, and I'm probably gonna get some
• 59:25
  more. So. All right, So Nixon called out Sam Cedar for a
• 59:31
  debate about circumcision and was bemused by how bad they are at debating. As
• 59:37
  far as he knows, it's now the most disliked video on their channel.
• 59:40
  He would now like to share the story. Well, I certainly want to
• 59:43
  do you guys want to hear Nixon's story about when he was on Sam Cedar.
• 59:49
  I guess were you on his show? This is the majority report,
• 59:53
  you know, literally Chattel, I'm gonna bring in Nixon. I hope that
• 59:58
  he's ready. All right, Hello Nixon, can you hear us? You're
• 1:00:02
  muted? I don't know if that's like. Let me just check here.
• 1:00:06
  No, you're not muted on my end? Are you there? Yes?
• 1:00:10
  Okay, Hi, all right, let's hear your story, buddy. How
• 1:00:15
  are you doing? Yeah? So, So I had a word about Sam
• 1:00:22
  suit that I wanted to tell you. So I called him. I called
• 1:00:25
  him for a debate, and I was talking about circumcision. I mean it
• 1:00:31
  could it could have gone better, but it turned in the end, it
• 1:00:36
  turned out it's his I think, as far as I know, his most
• 1:00:38
  disliked video ever. Um, that's funny, that's funny. I just had
• 1:00:46
  a story to tell. That's great. No, I want to know if
• 1:00:52
  you're comfortable with it. What was Sam Cedars like? What was his position?
• 1:00:57
  Was he okay with circumcision? And I was talking talk I actually talked
• 1:01:04
  to his co host like, Amma, I was talking to Emma. Oh
• 1:01:07
  oh, Emma, Emma, who what's the cod I don't watch them?
• 1:01:10
  Their garbage? What's Yeah, well they're not. They're like, you know
• 1:01:16
  what, I wouldn't I know, Like I just talked to Blue Orange.
• 1:01:20
  He called into that show too, and they're just really like terrible dishonest people,
• 1:01:24
  you know. Um, so okay, yeah yeah, but you know,
• 1:01:30
  I just feel like I should be able to deal with them. They're
• 1:01:34
  dishonest, of course there, but I should be able to deal with them.
• 1:01:37
  And well it strong, I mean just beat them, beat them in
• 1:01:43
  a debate. So I mean we should try to do that. Yeah,
• 1:01:45
  absolutely, So what did um? Okay, let me just put it this
• 1:01:50
  way. When you called in, what was your opening statement. Do you
• 1:01:58
  remember, I mean, yeah said or remember it was? It was implicit,
• 1:02:01
  and I mean I wasn't being very explicit. I should have been.
• 1:02:07
  I told them that her concision against men is legal. That's that's all I
• 1:02:13
  said. I mean, I was assuming the implication they will take is that
• 1:02:17
  her concision is MGM is legal, but FGM is not. That's a sexist
• 1:02:23
  tissue. I thought they would get this implication. But they didn't get this
• 1:02:28
  implication. I mean, I don't know if Emma is not smart enough to
• 1:02:31
  get it. I mean, that's probably she's not smart enough to get it.
• 1:02:36
  But Sam would have Sam the main guy, I think he would have
• 1:02:40
  gotten it. But I should have been more explicit. Yeah, But I
• 1:02:46
  mean I think that these people can be pretty manipulative, though they might play
• 1:02:51
  dumb, or they might try to get you to talk more until they can
• 1:02:53
  find something they can latch onto to demonize you with. Because you cannot make
• 1:03:00
  the argument for circumcision the best thing I've heard, and I don't think it's
• 1:03:05
  good, but like that, you know, like that it makes sex better
• 1:03:07
  or that women have a preference for it. But that's not a good argument.
• 1:03:12
  That's a terrible argument. It's it's actually terrible. Like if you meet
• 1:03:15
  a girl and she's like, I prefer cut dicks, you need to get
• 1:03:19
  the fuck out of there. That's what That's what I'm saying, Like,
• 1:03:22
  you don't, you don't have any need for that. A dick is a
• 1:03:24
  dick is a dick. So what I would say is that my suffering is
• 1:03:30
  not worth worth less than her pleasure. That's what I would say. So,
• 1:03:35
  I mean, Emma, the co host that I was talking to,
• 1:03:38
  had really bad arguments. She said, circumcision is not compulsory, that's what
• 1:03:44
  she's said, and I told her that it's not. She said that it's
• 1:03:47
  not compulsory. Oh, it's not compulsory. No, but it's yes,
• 1:03:52
  so god, okay, go ahead, yes. So my Yeah, my
• 1:03:55
  response to that was that a female genital mutilation was compulsory, but it was
• 1:04:00
  still allowed. That would still be a problem. I mean, if something
• 1:04:03
  is bad, it's not enough to just not make it mandatory. It should
• 1:04:09
  be outlawed, it should we should make sure that it doesn't happen. Yeah,
• 1:04:14
  that's that's what I Yeah, that's what I told her, and I
• 1:04:17
  think she conceded. Yeah, she conceded. And another argument, um,
• 1:04:23
  there was his side sidekick or something. I was looking at the comment section.
• 1:04:36
  They said he was at jury duty or something. Okay, yeah,
• 1:04:42
  so so there's this sidekick, her sidekick. He and the argument he gives
• 1:04:47
  me is that he is circumcised. He tells me that, and he says
• 1:04:51
  he does not remember the pain. And the response I gave to him is
• 1:04:56
  that, I mean, even if you don't remember the pain, then does
• 1:05:00
  that make it that does that mean it's not a big bail? I mean,
• 1:05:03
  by that logic, you can justify doing anything to a child. You
• 1:05:06
  can justify better feel you're just kicking a child because it's not going to remember
• 1:05:11
  the pain. So I mean that. So I think that was good that
• 1:05:16
  they considered on that as well. And yeah, that's go ahead. Yeah,
• 1:05:24
  and that's not the And by the way, that's not the only time
• 1:05:27
  I called called them. So let me ask you. Let me ask you
• 1:05:31
  this next. Um. Are you are you in the United States right now?
• 1:05:38
  Are you calling from somewhere else? Obviously I'm not. No, no,
• 1:05:44
  I don't want to assume. So are you are you in India?
• 1:05:48
  Yes? Oh no, that's good. I just wanted to ask a circumcision
• 1:05:53
  ye standard there, it's not. I just I just have a lot.
• 1:06:00
  Yeah, no, no, I appreciate that. I was just curious because
• 1:06:03
  I know that in South Korea, for example, like all the men get
• 1:06:06
  circumcised there, and in the United States they do too. But you know,
• 1:06:11
  this is the thing if you if you end up in another debate with
• 1:06:14
  these people. Um, first of all, there's no reason for it.
• 1:06:17
  Second of all, obviously like just because like you said, they don't remember
• 1:06:24
  the pain or whatever, you know, the trauma. It doesn't mean that
• 1:06:27
  there isn't trauma, for one, because it does have an effect on you.
• 1:06:30
  But also it doesn't make it moral. It doesn't like the problem is
• 1:06:34
  that it's immoral. That's that's all it is. It boils down to that.
• 1:06:38
  And uh yeah, women's preferences are meaningless like that when it comes to
• 1:06:43
  that, like can you imagine, you know, I like guys with one
• 1:06:45
  arm, could you cut off an arm? Uh? No? So uh
• 1:06:50
  And then like I guess the religious argument is one they might make, um,
• 1:06:55
  you know, and I would I would say, well, if you're
• 1:06:57
  if you want to. First of all, Christianity does not like necessarily make
• 1:07:02
  the circumcision is not normal in the United States because of Christianity. It's just
• 1:07:08
  like a practice. Now you can say no, but you have to like
• 1:07:12
  take you have to take the initiative. Like my mother, she didn't circumcise,
• 1:07:15
  have any of us circumcised, And in Puerto Rico that's normal not to
• 1:07:21
  do it. So you have to make a point of it, right,
• 1:07:25
  But it shouldn't be the default. That's the problem is that here it's the
• 1:07:29
  default. It shouldn't be. I understand that in the UK the default is
• 1:07:32
  that they don't do it, but there are people who get like doctors to
• 1:07:36
  do it, which is ridiculous, like you know. So, so we
• 1:07:41
  have to change the way that people view it. And I think calling it
• 1:07:45
  male general mutilation and calling female genermulation circumcision for girls is one way to start.
• 1:07:51
  Because if you if you want to piss a feminist off, say us
• 1:07:57
  circumcised girls and watch them because they can't they have. Yeah, all right,
• 1:08:04
  well, thank you Nixon. I gotta move on. Thanks for the
• 1:08:08
  story. If you, if you could, could you give me a link
• 1:08:11
  to your call, like if that video is still up, because I'd like
• 1:08:15
  to check it out. Yes, yes, all right, thank you.
• 1:08:18
  I'm gonna move you back to the screening room. Okay, now let me
• 1:08:24
  see who's next. Um, thank you Nixon. That was cool. If
• 1:08:29
  I get the link from him, I will put it in the description.
• 1:08:31
  So you guys can watch that video. Maybe you can. If there are
• 1:08:34
  comments allowed, you can like say your piece, all right, Jay Willie.
• 1:08:40
  J Willie thinks that an intersectional approach to men's issues might be warranted and
• 1:08:45
  would like to know Blue Orange's opinion about it. Oh, I'm sorry,
• 1:08:48
  you know, Um, I think that, like if you got the gist
• 1:08:51
  of it, I'm gonna bring him in here anyway. So I'm gonna bring
• 1:08:54
  in Jay Willie, uh swash, So you could could you tell him because
• 1:08:58
  I see that he's muted and deafened, you do tell him that um in
• 1:09:01
  the text or something that I'm gonna be bringing him in here. Okay.
• 1:09:08
  So yeah, I think that what Blue Orange wants to do, And like
• 1:09:11
  I think that we're just kind of, like, you know, on different
• 1:09:15
  ends of this. He he's all about like the pr of the MRM um,
• 1:09:19
  And I mean I get that, but I don't think it's I don't
• 1:09:23
  think it's useful. I think that that feminists had their minds made up about
• 1:09:26
  us, and uh, that's not going to change, so like it.
• 1:09:30
  So what we gotta do is we just gotta like make noise and try to
• 1:09:33
  get like, you know, the attention of people who are willing to listen
• 1:09:40
  and not compromise our message. That's what I think. But you know,
• 1:09:45
  I don't I don't make the rules, so I'm not gonna do that.
• 1:09:47
  I'm gonna bring in Jay Willie. Now I hope that he's what's this,
• 1:09:53
  Jay Willie is back. I'll try to poke him. Yeah, do that,
• 1:09:55
  thank you? He's afk oh, well, you know what, I'll
• 1:09:58
  go to the next person and I'll come back. So Chris one six one
• 1:10:03
  thinks where we're leaving the Bronze Age collapse rather than the collapse of the Roman
• 1:10:09
  Empire, and he would like to discuss his studies on the history of the
• 1:10:11
  sexes and how they are presented. Okay, I'll bring in um Chris,
• 1:10:16
  and let me know when Jay Willie is back and I'll bring him in.
• 1:10:18
  So all right, Hello Chris, Hello, Hello, it's good to see
• 1:10:25
  you, my friend. How are you doing today? I'm doing well,
• 1:10:28
  thank you. So I only because I do have a lot of people going
• 1:10:33
  through. So I only have like five minutes and the last time I had
• 1:10:35
  you on we talked for a little while. Um so tell me about the
• 1:10:42
  this being the Bronze Age collapse. Well, how exactly it happened in terms
• 1:10:47
  of leading up to it, no one really knows for certain. I have
• 1:10:51
  some theory they gave women the vote. Actually, you're not far off,
• 1:10:58
  I know, I know, I figured, I figured. I think I
• 1:11:00
  was seeing what happened here. Yeah. And secondly, but we do know
• 1:11:04
  a lot about the Brovige collapse in terms of what happened like a the aftermath,
• 1:11:10
  right, and the aftermath was very much about how all of these empires
• 1:11:15
  that were giant conglomerations just went away completely. And now my theory is that
• 1:11:23
  they started to treat their men like shit, and their men either stopped putting
• 1:11:28
  into the workforce and then all it takes as a plague. They die off.
• 1:11:31
  No one gives a shit, No one cared about the men. Men
• 1:11:33
  die off, whole society collapses, no more production, So it just takes
• 1:11:39
  an extra push when you're on the precipice essentially. Yeah. Now, Greece,
• 1:11:44
  which was a bunch of city states, all right, fucking next to
• 1:11:45
  each other survived completely. Now Assyria not so much, right, and Assyria
• 1:11:55
  was a massive empire compared to say Athens, So it could be the two
• 1:12:00
  bloated to fail thing, which you know, look at the banks that I'll
• 1:12:03
  tell you all you know about that. But yeah, what what I definitely
• 1:12:08
  think about this being the Bronze Age collapse is that some empire will go away,
• 1:12:15
  other empires will live in the aftermath. Some empires will survive whether the
• 1:12:20
  storm and then get their ship pushed in five thousand years later. So there's
• 1:12:25
  always hope, there's always a we can recover aspects. That's true. How
• 1:12:30
  long did it take for the collapse to happen? Because I feel like,
• 1:12:33
  you know, everybody's talking about how it's over, but I'm like, well,
• 1:12:35
  I think I'm gonna be long dead before we actually, like it actually
• 1:12:40
  does hit rock bottom. I know things are bad right now, but there's
• 1:12:44
  still people fighting. I don't think we're going to hit the collapse within fifty
• 1:12:49
  years. That being said, for the Bronze Age, it took about fifty
• 1:12:53
  years for most empires to just wither away completely. Yeah. Now, funny
• 1:12:58
  it's fifty years because for the Bronze age to become the Iron age. It
• 1:13:01
  took fifty years. No, yeah, that's because back then it took fifty
• 1:13:06
  years for information to travel all the way around the globe. Yeah, now
• 1:13:12
  it takes five milliseconds, I suppose. Yeah, that's true. So interesting
• 1:13:17
  to see, you know, when information hits the ship, fan, what
• 1:13:20
  we're going to do in the aftermath would be interesting to see. But yeah,
• 1:13:26
  again, when it comes to history, men and women have played off
• 1:13:29
  each other's strengths completely every time period you can think of, men were the
• 1:13:32
  ones saying, Okay, I want to sacrifice and die for the righteousness that
• 1:13:36
  is my family, my bloodline. I'm going to go out do dangerous shit,
• 1:13:40
  bring back home the goods. You wife, take care of this place,
• 1:13:43
  keep it knee, keep it clean. Have a kid, and she's
• 1:13:45
  like, yes, mine, how I will do that. I have a
• 1:13:46
  good time, and then we as a family make families for the next end
• 1:13:51
  of time. Now, when it hit the Industrial Revolution, we started to
• 1:13:58
  have a lot of people having eighteen kids. Right. Oh yeah. If
• 1:14:02
  you look at uh sperm production and tea levels compared to the nineteen tens,
• 1:14:10
  compared to now, that's that's why no one's having eighteen kids anymore. That's
• 1:14:15
  that's why sperm counts are low. M hmm, well yeah, I mean
• 1:14:23
  fertility is getting really weird with birth control and all that shit. Yeah,
• 1:14:28
  all right, I'm ranting. I'm just excited. No, it's all right,
• 1:14:30
  it's all right. I'm sorry. That go ahead. I'm on the
• 1:14:34
  good drugs, caffeine, other thing, the good fun stuff that makes me
• 1:14:40
  forget pain for five minutes. Yeah. Well, um, no, that
• 1:14:45
  that's an interesting insight. I'm gonna let the chat decide which which collapse we're
• 1:14:50
  in right now. Um, but I'm still I'm still hopeful that like this,
• 1:14:57
  it's not too late. I think that, um, what's happen happening
• 1:15:00
  to us is not just a decline that is naturally occurring. There's obviously,
• 1:15:05
  like you know, forces at work to do this, and that means that
• 1:15:10
  we can we can slow it down or stop it. So I would make
• 1:15:14
  a suggestion at the possible culprit. But if I do, I'll lose my
• 1:15:16
  bank account. Right now, let's not. Let's not do that. I'm
• 1:15:20
  joking. I'm joking this, Yeah, I know, I know. Do
• 1:15:26
  not do not infringe. Yeah, well, we don't want to. We
• 1:15:30
  don't want to do that, all right, So I'm gonna move you back,
• 1:15:31
  Chris, thanks for thanks for coming on. Yeah, yeah, I'm
• 1:15:35
  I'm spesticadian Retardo today. It's fine, no problem. Um, and uh,
• 1:15:41
  I guess I'll see you soon. I'm gonna move you back into the
• 1:15:45
  street screening room. Ye, hopefully we can have a chat at the time,
• 1:15:47
  and yeah, I want to. I'm gonna I'm gonna stream more so.
• 1:15:51
  So I streamed the game like last week. I think I'm gonna do
• 1:15:55
  it again probably tomorrow. Um, so you know, around last five minutes
• 1:16:00
  of that and then it went completely fucking nuked from orbit. Yeah, so
• 1:16:06
  I mean, if you want to, you can join in and watch or
• 1:16:12
  whatever. So all right, all right, see you later. I'm gonna
• 1:16:15
  move you back. Yes, all right. Next we got I think Jay
• 1:16:19
  Willie has returned, so I'm gonna bring him on to talk about the intersectional
• 1:16:25
  approach. So let me go ahead and bring him in here. All right,
• 1:16:29
  Hello, Jay Willie, welcome to the show. Oh hello, hey,
• 1:16:32
  hey, yeah, hey, did you read my question already? I
• 1:16:39
  did? I read it earlier. Unfortunately, Blue Orange twenty two was gone.
• 1:16:43
  He just took off kind of abruptly. He didn't even say goodbye,
• 1:16:45
  but he probably had to go. So it's okay, But you I think
• 1:16:49
  that just I don't want to okay, So for fear of speaking for him,
• 1:16:56
  I think that he would find it a good idea to sort of make
• 1:17:03
  the case that, you know, men's issues could be intersectional. I strongly
• 1:17:09
  disagree with that, but um, I think that he would agree because I
• 1:17:14
  think that it's about pr right. If it looks good, if it sounds
• 1:17:16
  good, then maybe it'll work. And I'm just like, I think that
• 1:17:19
  if you do that, you run the risk of essentially like entrenching the same
• 1:17:26
  framework that put us in the position we're in. But what what are your
• 1:17:30
  thoughts? Well, I actually believe that the reason why I think that when
• 1:17:35
  the people look at why I see it, intersectional feminism is an absolute failure,
• 1:17:41
  and that is because they actually don't really have become a failure because everybody
• 1:17:45
  didn't like it setco it has like degraded. What I mean by that is
• 1:17:48
  that, Um, it's that if you take an intersectional approach to two issues
• 1:17:55
  that affects groups of people, right, you're gonna say that these this group
• 1:17:59
  identity, this trait, right, and this other trace you have. There
• 1:18:02
  are going to be certain things that do will have you in those trades together,
• 1:18:06
  are going to post certain issues to obstacles for you. Is that you're
• 1:18:12
  not going to see in yeah, and that intersection of those things gonna gonna
• 1:18:17
  it's going to be unique and you can't really see them without looking at those
• 1:18:21
  um, both parts of the identity at the same time, right, which
• 1:18:27
  is true, right, which is good. But the thing about time section
• 1:18:29
  of feminism theil is because they apply to mars, it's logic to it when
• 1:18:32
  they basically said that, oh, this is the privileged class and this on
• 1:18:36
  the privileged class, rather than to say what you should say the same hierarchy
• 1:18:43
  exactly, which is not how it should be. The idea is that,
• 1:18:45
  um, this is how the struggle impact this sex, and this is the
• 1:18:49
  struggle this impact this ethnicity. Right, and there are certain things that just
• 1:18:55
  the sex of this ethnicity are facing that isn't prevalent or it doesn't exist or
• 1:19:03
  if they're rare, if people who don't have that intersectional identity, so to
• 1:19:09
  speak, and that doesn't mean that one should be it's like worse off than
• 1:19:14
  the other, right, if I were to combine my ethnicity or my um
• 1:19:20
  with my sex, right, I do think that like its unique struggle.
• 1:19:25
  I'm not saying that that is make means that I am like worse off than
• 1:19:30
  a man of a different race. And I don't think I'm like worse off
• 1:19:35
  than a woman of the semitesity. Okay, I believe in some aspect,
• 1:19:39
  but not in every aspect. Right, I used to believe that is just
• 1:19:43
  um, that it is unique, and wanting to look at all the different
• 1:19:47
  intersections of a group of people after looking at the general, because the general
• 1:19:54
  is also very important and we should never forget that. But because of these
• 1:20:00
  struggles are because the intersection makes it different, right, and that is important.
• 1:20:03
  It doesn't mean that one should be taking up that this rate should be
• 1:20:08
  should be lifted up above the other rates and that makes two oppression points or
• 1:20:12
  whatever. That's not what I want to do, because that's just retarded.
• 1:20:15
  But that's mainly a problem of the Marxist approach that the left half intersectional.
• 1:20:21
  Yeah, I mean I thought the Marxist academics came up with the intersectional structure.
• 1:20:27
  So I don't think you could I don't think you could do it without
• 1:20:30
  validating that that theory to begin with, because like, okay, let's say
• 1:20:33
  men and women have different problems, right, they have different struggles um some
• 1:20:41
  social, some cultural, and even a few of them are actually like political
• 1:20:46
  or legal. And I think that men generally have more problems like like legally
• 1:20:54
  speaking and politically speaking than women. But that doesn't mean that I think that
• 1:21:00
  women are oppressing men or that men are oppressed because so like, it doesn't.
• 1:21:03
  It's sort of like, you know, and I think the same thing
• 1:21:05
  with other intersections, you know, like people who I guess people who don't
• 1:21:11
  live in or didn't live in cities like Chicago will buy into the racial narratives
• 1:21:19
  because they're looking. I mean, even if you are trying to avoid mainstream
• 1:21:24
  media, you'll get bombarded with these ideas. But the truth is is that
• 1:21:29
  the gender difference or the gender issues are the main issues. They're really the
• 1:21:33
  only issues. So being you know, Latino or black or Asian or Jewish
• 1:21:39
  or white or whatever doesn't have that much of an effect, unless, of
• 1:21:44
  course, you know, your culture is having an effect, but that's not
• 1:21:49
  racial. So I mean, in my opinion, I think the gender is
• 1:21:53
  much more like for example, there are more black or more white men who
• 1:21:57
  are killed by police then all women killed by police put together. So it
• 1:22:02
  doesn't have anything to do at race. It's about the gender, right,
• 1:22:06
  um. And that's why. I mean, I know that people they people
• 1:22:14
  that belong to marginalized groups like gay men and like you know, um,
• 1:22:17
  and and men of color or whatever minority men they they are, they claim
• 1:22:26
  to that aspect. But I think that feminism put that there, you know,
• 1:22:30
  like it's it's trying to say you need this and and the purpose of
• 1:22:34
  it, in my opinion, is to conceal the fact that they're men and
• 1:22:39
  that's the real problem, or at least like the where the root of their
• 1:22:43
  problems comes from. So yeah, go ahead, Yeah, But that's like
• 1:22:47
  the opposite up intersectionality, because if you want took a intersexual perspective, basically,
• 1:22:53
  see if you basically what to even try and find something, right,
• 1:22:56
  you say, like oh this guy he is he is a black man or
• 1:23:00
  a disguise gay man, right, then you should look at the if you
• 1:23:03
  want to be intersectional about it, just look at first you look at the
• 1:23:06
  black thing, how that intersect with the mail thing, and how they gave
• 1:23:10
  intersect with the mail things. But no, that is the only way if
• 1:23:15
  you're that's literally the only way everyone's going to be intersectional about it. Otherwise
• 1:23:19
  they're not being intersectional. They're used focus on the rate and the sex stuff
• 1:23:24
  and avoiding the intersection of the They're avoiding the intersection of the sex. I
• 1:23:28
  don't want to look at the rate. So that would be the complete opposite
• 1:23:30
  of them being intersectional. Yeah, that's because they already have it ranked.
• 1:23:33
  So like being male, it does not afford you anything but privilege. So
• 1:23:39
  that according to their logic. Right, so, if you're a black man
• 1:23:44
  that is killed by a police officer or whatever the convenience scenario might be,
• 1:23:48
  if you die while you know, while being um, you know, arrested
• 1:23:54
  or whatever it is, doesn't really matter, then they will say it's because
• 1:23:59
  you're black, and it's not because you're male, even though the fact that
• 1:24:01
  you're male is a much like it proves your odds a lot more. But
• 1:24:08
  they don't want to acknowledge the maleness because that kills the theory that men have
• 1:24:14
  privilege, So they can't they can't go That's what Black Lives Matter did,
• 1:24:17
  right, So you know, these the fat black lesbians. They radical fat
• 1:24:24
  black feminist lesbians. They they built their empire on black men that died.
• 1:24:32
  But they didn't care that they were men. They cared that they were black
• 1:24:36
  because then they were useful. So that's the whole the whole thing is built
• 1:24:41
  on that. And you know it when you look at their mission statements,
• 1:24:45
  which they've removed from their website, which is basically they're gonna they want to,
• 1:24:48
  um, you know, destroy the nuclear family and raise children in fucking
• 1:24:54
  communes or whatever. Um. The men, the male aspect of of an
• 1:25:00
  identity is the one that holds the least amount of meaning. Or intersectional feminism
• 1:25:06
  like but like, yeah, you're right, but these but that's because intersectional
• 1:25:12
  feminism it's actually kind of like it's a complete failure, right, because the
• 1:25:20
  Black Lives Matter is like an it's a Marxist organization, right. Yeah,
• 1:25:25
  that's why I say it's a problem with marxis not about intersectionality. The first
• 1:25:29
  one who actually combined intersectionality with feminism that was used a feminist called Crimbly Crenshaw,
• 1:25:36
  and she basically was explaining like, um that the unique challenge, the
• 1:25:43
  unique challenges of black women, how the intersection was there. She didn't opposed
• 1:25:49
  or rejected any other form of intersection for any other group of people. She
• 1:25:54
  only focused on the one that affected her, right, But that itself that
• 1:25:58
  just means that also mean that the things shouldn't is they use me that other
• 1:26:01
  uh like intersections exists too, right, because what basically what the one other
• 1:26:08
  reason we know why insectional feminist is a failure in the biggest way that they
• 1:26:13
  refuse to accept intersection between being a woman of European origin which has different which
• 1:26:19
  is not say that's better or worse than a woman of any other ethnicity or
• 1:26:26
  men of the same rays, right, I'm saying that that's a unique thing.
• 1:26:30
  And the in technal feminism, which shouldn't really be calling sexual feminist because
• 1:26:33
  well it is. It's a failure, right because they don't look at the
• 1:26:36
  intersection. And if you don't and like the point they probably you point out
• 1:26:41
  with black lives matter insexual feminism and why it's a failure is because they don't
• 1:26:45
  actually look at all the intersections, which means that they are technically a little
• 1:26:50
  bit less definitely less intersectional. And what I proposed, because I'm proposing being
• 1:26:57
  intersexual and they aren't intersectional. But so when you say there's no meaning of
• 1:27:01
  the work. Yeah, So when you say they're a failure, do you
• 1:27:04
  mean like logically they fail or that nobody likes it. It fails logically because
• 1:27:12
  if they say they want to be intersecual, look at how different types of
• 1:27:16
  struggles or oppressions or issues affects the intersectional identity of people of two or more
• 1:27:23
  different traits differently, and it's a failure because they're reductive. They ignore the
• 1:27:29
  intersections that are placed on the things, how the intersectional reality of being a
• 1:27:34
  man of a different ethnicity or a different sexuality, because they know the Maile
• 1:27:41
  aspect, and you need to acknowledge. And if you want to have an
• 1:27:44
  intersectional perspective, you need to look at all the aspects of what can cause
• 1:27:49
  someone And therefore you need to look at the Mail aspect as being unique challenges.
• 1:27:56
  They need to look at the European aspects of being unique challenges. You
• 1:28:00
  even need to look at the straight act of being genique challenges because I would
• 1:28:02
  actually be honest to say that that being a lesbian or a gay man is
• 1:28:08
  having both their own unique intersectional challenges. But if you're a straight woman or
• 1:28:15
  a straight man you have I don't want to say better, but you have
• 1:28:17
  actually different struggles than someone who's gay, right, and you need to look
• 1:28:24
  at that too, Right. But then they really wanted to believe this group
• 1:28:29
  is more privileged than their group, they would actually need to go and look
• 1:28:31
  at the intersections forever group of people if they really wanted to estimate that books
• 1:28:38
  they have, but they don't do that because they're literally not being intersectional.
• 1:28:44
  Well, I mean, do you think that this is just because they're ignorant
• 1:28:48
  or misinformed, or do you think they are intentionally being deceitful. I think
• 1:28:54
  it's both. I believe that people who follow it, the people who believe
• 1:28:58
  that that they are correct, are being misinformed, with people who are behind
• 1:29:02
  it are being um are being deceitful, because if you look at reality,
• 1:29:09
  you can see that there are intersectional oppressions happening to a lot of people.
• 1:29:15
  And I pointed out several in the past, and if if the best way
• 1:29:19
  of covering that up is to um, if to monopolize the discussion about intersectional
• 1:29:28
  oppression and in order to in order to make it not intersectional and only make
• 1:29:33
  it about um about rich upper class women, which is what they're doing because
• 1:29:44
  if you ignore the male experience of many aspects um you cannot look at the
• 1:29:50
  traits by itself, like you can't look at the if you look at the
• 1:29:55
  trait experience basically of someone who is gay right regards of the sex right,
• 1:30:01
  and if you look at the aspects that are worse for the male ones right,
• 1:30:05
  and if you take away and you can't talk about them, then it
• 1:30:10
  becomes harder to talk about. Then you cannot really talk about the intersectional disadvanted
• 1:30:15
  lesbian's face either because because then you would go to the discussion about the male
• 1:30:23
  intersection, and if they don't want that to happen, you can't really talk
• 1:30:27
  about that for any other for the female either because then the i'd hard to
• 1:30:34
  explain it. It's basically, if the male ones exist and that they're obvious,
• 1:30:40
  in order to cover that up, they can't. They need to take
• 1:30:45
  focus away altogether. And that means that if you look at the female one
• 1:30:49
  too, you would also see the male ones and you can't do that,
• 1:30:53
  So therefore you can't. It just stifles the conversation and nothing gets done.
• 1:30:57
  And that's the reason about OLM is making money because if you basically try to
• 1:31:01
  monopolize a course and then you prevent that definectually occurring by using fucking fucked up
• 1:31:08
  mind games to make it harder for other people like you want to get through
• 1:31:12
  to do anything, then what you're basically doing is that you're stifling the discussion.
• 1:31:18
  Right, So yeah, I do think that they're wrong. I think
• 1:31:23
  that they are malicious and also because and but also they're wrong because they're Marxists,
• 1:31:28
  because Marxism by their nature that doesn't they doesn't mix well with intersectionality.
• 1:31:35
  It basically destroys it and replace it with Marxism. And that's where more focal
• 1:31:41
  intersectional feminists are basically just more like Marxist feminists because they are actually used replacing
• 1:31:49
  intersectionality with Marxism. And then you say intersectionality like if you basically were to
• 1:31:56
  use be a Marxist and then call you say indissectional when you're maximulton insissectional because
• 1:32:01
  they're very exclusive. Actually, um, then they're not being indisectional. Does
• 1:32:06
  that make sense? Yeah, No, I understand what you're saying. I
• 1:32:10
  mean I think that it's I think it's intentional. I think that anybody that
• 1:32:14
  has like a grain of logic. Will will look at this and say,
• 1:32:17
  well, everybody has problems. I think that if you went with a logical
• 1:32:21
  intersectional approach to stuff, what will end up happening is that you will break
• 1:32:27
  everything down to such fine particles because of so many intersections that it will all
• 1:32:31
  be I wouldn't say meaningless, but you'll just find that, you know,
• 1:32:35
  every individual has their own you know, their own situation, you know what
• 1:32:44
  I mean? Yeah, which is the goal kind of Yeah, that's where
• 1:32:45
  it'll land. It'll be because because you know, even their version of things
• 1:32:48
  is heading in that direction. But like if you really do it, like
• 1:32:53
  it'll just break down. Oh yeah, every person is an individual and they
• 1:32:57
  all have their own individual issues. But look, Jay, well they I
• 1:33:00
  gotta move on. And we went a little bit over on this one.
• 1:33:01
  But thank you for the call, and it's an interesting subject. See what
• 1:33:05
  the chat thinks maybe in the comments afterwards. Okay, I'm gonna move you
• 1:33:13
  back. All right, who's next? Let you see here? Uh.
• 1:33:19
  Qoran Strong believes that non humanitarian anti feminist from the YouTube chat wants to call,
• 1:33:28
  but is waiting for you to say that they are welcome. I've been
• 1:33:30
  asked to pass this along. Yeah, go ahead, you can, Nick,
• 1:33:33
  you can come in you want. Um. I guess that's it.
• 1:33:39
  Is there anybody else that wants to ask me a question? Because I see
• 1:33:42
  a lot of people in the chat, but sometimes people join that, um
• 1:33:46
  the chat just to hang out, So I guess that there there is that.
• 1:33:50
  Uh. I'll wait and see if anybody else has a question or jumps
• 1:33:55
  in. But um, what I'm going to do soon own ish, I
• 1:34:00
  got about ten minutes or so, but I could I could end the show
• 1:34:04
  earlier, is do the Patron show because I need to do another Patron show
• 1:34:09
  this week and hang out with the patrons. We'll talk about any super chests.
• 1:34:15
  No, no, well, you know what, maybe I got a
• 1:34:16
  super chowd look and see. I don't know. I don't I don't manage
• 1:34:21
  any of this stuff, so super chow I did get some? All right,
• 1:34:26
  hold on, I'm gonna read these so okay, agreed to Charles yesterday.
• 1:34:35
  I don't know if this one was already bad because Hannah did not put
• 1:34:40
  done afterwards, So I'm just gonna read it again because US five dollars and
• 1:34:43
  says appreciated the discussion on how identity doesn't invalidate reason. At the end of
• 1:34:46
  HBr talk to sixty four, Thank you, Charles. I didn't watch that
• 1:34:51
  show, so I'm not sure. I know Namacates was on. She's awesome.
• 1:34:56
  She's another one of these feminists that started off. I'm all, she
• 1:35:00
  may have just been a normy, but she sort of like became curious about
• 1:35:03
  in cells and looked into it and became sympathetic, which I appreciate. Anonymous
• 1:35:09
  gave us five dollars and says, mec more stuff, Okay, thank you
• 1:35:14
  for that. Zerenx gives us five dollars this today and says, I doubt
• 1:35:18
  very much that people on the left will acknowledge how male is individualists compared to
• 1:35:23
  a female collectivist. That people on the left want to get involved worries me
• 1:35:27
  because they're going to try and pull towards the left, which will not be
• 1:35:30
  a benefit to men and families overall as a result. Yeah, I agree.
• 1:35:34
  I mean that's my main issue is that I think that leftism leans towards
• 1:35:42
  collectivism. I mean, like, you know what I think most people think
• 1:35:45
  when they think of leftism. This is one of the things I wanted to
• 1:35:47
  talk to Blue Orange about is that they think leftism is liberalism, and that
• 1:35:51
  means, oh, you know, I'm like, I don't I'm not a
• 1:35:54
  homophoe, I'm not racist, I'm I'm not chauvinistic. That's the right that
• 1:35:58
  does that. But it's just not true. And so like people want to
• 1:36:01
  they don't want to identify as evil because you know, people on the right
• 1:36:06
  and conservatives and religious people and all that, they've been framed as evil,
• 1:36:10
  evil people, bigots, etc. You know, men with micro penises,
• 1:36:15
  whatever, did drive pickup trucks whatever it is, right, they've been framed
• 1:36:18
  that way for decades and decades and decades by leftist media and academics and intellectuals
• 1:36:26
  and all of that Hollywood, you know. So the normal person is like,
• 1:36:30
  look, I'm not one of those, but they're acting like those are
• 1:36:33
  real when that's just like a boogieman that they made. So I think that
• 1:36:39
  when you know, Bluehorn says, oh yeah, there's they're leftist MRAs,
• 1:36:43
  I'm sure there are, but I think that most of the time they're really
• 1:36:47
  just liberals, you know, that they're just okay with stuff. And that's
• 1:36:51
  like everybody, like, you know, there's there is so little actual bigotry
• 1:36:57
  in this country. I mean, it's laughable that that's like the reputation,
• 1:37:00
  and I know that's all on purpose. So I agree with the ranks.
• 1:37:04
  I do worry about leftists m MRAs because they may not have thought this through
• 1:37:12
  because like, if you believe in all of these things that men have to
• 1:37:15
  sacrifice and pay for as being part of it, then you're not really doing
• 1:37:19
  men any favors, right, So and if those that money is not going
• 1:37:23
  to go to men, like I've I've had some say well, we could
• 1:37:26
  give we could give welfare to men. It's like, that's not going to
• 1:37:29
  happen. It's because not only because they're not likely to get it, but
• 1:37:32
  also because a lot of men are not likely to take it. You know,
• 1:37:35
  they're gonna be like, well, I think I'll just be homeless then.
• 1:37:39
  So I don't know that needs to be thought of. I think the
• 1:37:41
  individualism of men and there the general like tendency to be independent and want to
• 1:37:46
  do your own thing, that's a problem for feminists and leftists because they want
• 1:37:51
  everyone to like, you know, it's a it's a feminine it's a feminine
• 1:37:56
  ideology. We have two wings because we have two sexes. Okay, Anonymous
• 1:38:01
  gives us five dollars and says feminism is bullshit. Its definition is gynocentric.
• 1:38:06
  Women have never actually been oppressed. They've had privileges that men didn't have,
• 1:38:11
  and still don't have the so called rights which really aren't rights. Men have
• 1:38:15
  are a forced bargain while women were gifted the abilities. Yes, that's what
• 1:38:18
  I was saying. From my thirteen years of intactivism and MRAM advocacy, I've
• 1:38:23
  learned to not trust anyone that won't call themselves an MRA or pro mail when
• 1:38:28
  they claim to be egalitarian, a human rights activist, a humanist, or
• 1:38:31
  egalitarian feminist. I ask these people that don't want to label themselves MRAs but
• 1:38:35
  call themselves human rights activists if they're women's rights activists. They reply with yes,
• 1:38:41
  but when I asked them if they're MRAs, they reject the label.
• 1:38:44
  So I asked them, are them are men not humans? And the mental
• 1:38:47
  gymnastics they pull off would make some mome biles look like a quadriplegic. Yeah,
• 1:38:53
  I agree, Well, this is again this is the propaganda. Like
• 1:38:57
  I won't I won't like ask that people take on any label. I just
• 1:39:02
  want to know what their values are, because people do have like a visceral
• 1:39:06
  reaction. But that's because of like all the you know, the sort of
• 1:39:11
  pr damage that feminism has done to not just the men's movement but just men
• 1:39:16
  in general. So like everybody just assumes men don't need help, Why do
• 1:39:20
  they do that? Well? Who told them so? Anyway, thank you
• 1:39:25
  Anonymous for that big wordy super chow, and I agree one hundred percent with
• 1:39:31
  all of that. So I'm gonna put done here and let me see if
• 1:39:35
  anybody else has a message. If I don't have anybody else, then I'm
• 1:39:42
  gonna end the show and do the Patron Show so it doesn't look like I
• 1:39:47
  do. Okay, guys, well I'm gonna wrap it up then, So
• 1:39:56
  thanks got so much for coming on. Let me know what you guys think
• 1:39:59
  about the you know what we talked about. I thought it was really interesting
• 1:40:01
  stuff. I'm gonna go into the Patron Show now and chat with the Patrons
• 1:40:05
  about the main show, and also probably tomorrow I'm going to do another game
• 1:40:14
  stream, so if you guys want to just come hang out for that,
• 1:40:17
  I'll figure out when and stuff tomorrow. Just be on the lookout. So
• 1:40:21
  Okay, this is gonna stay up afterwards. So if you guys liked this
• 1:40:25
  video, please hit like, subscribe if you're not already subscribed to hit the
• 1:40:28
  BELF notifications, leave us a comment, let us know what you guys think
• 1:40:30
  about what we discussed, and please please please share this video because sharing is
• 1:40:34
  caring. Thank you guys so much for coming on today's episode of What Is
• 1:40:41
  This The Badgel Lodge, and we will talk to you all in the next
• 1:40:44
  video. Men's right activists are machines, dude. Okay, they are literal
• 1:40:51
  machines. They are talking point machines. They are impossible to deal with,
• 1:40:56
  especially if you have, like especially if you have like a couple dudes who
• 1:41:00
  have good memory. On top of that too, Holy shit, you're fucked.