Latest / Age Defiantly with Mark Young / [Ep 8] Neurotech That Calms You in Minutes | Jonathan Hacker

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[Ep 8] Neurotech That Calms You in Minutes | Jonathan Hacker · Age Defiantly with Mark Young

• 0:00
  Welcome to Performance Driven Living, the podcast where we question everything.
• 0:05
  We don't tip to around tough topics, we walk right into them, not to provoke, but to
• 0:11
  get closer to what's real.
• 0:13
  You might not agree with everything you hear, and that's okay.
• 0:17
  The show isn't about being right, it's about being real.
• 0:20
  These conversations are meant to stretch your thinking, challenge assumptions, and spark
• 0:25
  something deeper.
• 0:26
  The views shared are those of our guests and may not reflect those of the host or team.
• 0:32
  And while we dive deep into health, performance, and transformation, this is not medical advice.
• 0:38
  Talk to your doctor before making changes to your health or lifestyle.
• 0:42
  Take what lands, leave what doesn't, but whatever you do, don't stop questioning.
• 0:55
  We are here on the Performance Driven Living podcast, I'm your host, Mark Young, and I
• 1:00
  am joined by my friend today, John Hacker, and John is a young pioneer in this space.
• 1:08
  And I love this, and John, I always say when they put together show notes, I've always
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  got this iPad here trying to keep me on track, which is really hard to do.
• 1:14
  So I'm not sure that they actually believe that that works, but I always start talking and
• 1:19
  reading what they put in these intros, because I have to laugh because I could never
• 1:23
  say the things that they say, because it's so eloquent, so your intros coming from
• 1:27
  here.
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  John Hacker is the founder and CEO of Nurgere, a company born from nearly a decade of
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  research planning and a deep commitment to unlocking the brain's full potential.
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  With a background in biomedical engineering and a vision to shift the way we manage mental
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  health and performance, John is pioneering a path where tech and healing meet.
• 1:50
  I think you're right on that.
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  That's actually what we're talking about.
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  Looking at what you're saying, it's more eloquent than I would ever come up with.
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  And I'll say that it says in here that you're the CEO of Nurgere, which the product that
• 2:00
  you actually work with is called Zenbud, which is a much better name, and that's how you
• 2:04
  can find us too.
• 2:05
  This is all around Zenbud.
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  The original company was founded as Nurgere because we were searching for domains that were
• 2:12
  open.
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  It's always any you are.
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  Yeah, that's always everybody's problem.
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  Yeah.
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  But I want to start off by just asking, like, I'm familiar with your product.
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  We've talked before and never want a podcast to look like a commercial.
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  But of course, but the reality is, is you have a solution to a problem that a lot of
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  people have.
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  Yeah.
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  And what I will say is that we live in a time in anybody who's listening, who deals
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  with anxiety, which I mean, lives in your sympathetic nervous system.
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  If you know what it is, but there's this heightened sense of fear and anxiety and on the
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  edge, and just always that feeling of go, go, go, go, go.
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  It's that fight or flight type response that people live in.
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  And truthfully, we're in such a freaking overstimulated world that, you know, the reality
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  and that's why I love the name Zenbud because it's like Zen is like, my Neutraceuticals company
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  actually has a product called Daily Zen.
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  Yeah.
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  It's such a great word.
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  The reason for it is literally, it's just like, Zen just brings a peaceful, like, harmonic
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  connotation with it, right?
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  Yeah.
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  It's really all about balance, I'd say more than anything else.
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  Yeah.
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  And I mean, like that's something that we really focused on too is the balance in the system.
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  The thing that's the real problem nowadays is there are so many factors that are putting
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  people out of that balance state.
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  And anxiety is one of the results of that actually is not just anxiety.
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  You can even take a look at PTSD and depression.
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  There are results of being in an unbalanced state.
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  And it really is crucial to implement solutions that can help bring you back to a balanced
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  state and make you more resilient to going out of balance.
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  So one of the things, when we talk about this anxiety, and just for the audiences sake
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  as well, like for sure, your nervous systems run in two ways, I'll say, there's this sympathetic
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  nervous system, which is our fighter flight is how people know, right?
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  That is the, you know, and going back to caveman times, we'll say, that's the, I just spotted
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  a lion.
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  You got to run out.
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  Now I need to run for my work before you got to fight it's death.
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  That's right.
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  I'm in a row.
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  I'm going to fight.
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  Yeah, 100%.
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  With a lion, I'm going to probably go with rope, which is the right response.
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  Right.
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  That's the area.
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  Something's happened.
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  I need it.
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  It's a survival instinct.
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  Yes.
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  And it's very important.
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  And then the, the parasympathetic nervous system is what we call the rest and digest,
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  right?
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  That is where your energy, if we think of energy like a bandwidth type situation, like
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  you only get so much energy.
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  And the amount of energy that your body is capable of producing, you know, based on
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  multiple other inputs, but your body is able to give off so much energy in it.
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  Think about it.
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  And so much as well, it takes this much energy to run your nervous system, this much energy
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  to run your muscular system, this much to run your digestive system, this much to run
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  your cardiovascular system.
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  Like your body has to kind of, it starts to off, yes, parcel off how much energy goes
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  to such places.
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  And when I'm in a heightened sense of, of danger, what ends up happening is the energy
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  that would normally run my digestive system, run my, you know, all these other types
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  of things, gets reality, yes, it gets reallocated.
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  And my nervous system says, wait, sorry guys, sex organs, you know, digestive organs.
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  Everything outside of core functionalities and survival is put on the back burner.
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  And the thing is, the problem is actually more than anything else is when you're in
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  that sympathetic or fire flight state, you should be there sometimes when you are
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  presently fighting for your life, you need to be in that sympathetic state.
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  The problem is that we're getting to that sympathetic state more and more often when
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  we're not fighting for our lives.
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  And it's for longer and longer periods of time.
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  When you're in a constant sympathetic state, it can literally kill you.
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  I'm not even kidding, no, that's the stress kills, yes, stress, stress kills.
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  And that's the real, the real thing, because this fight or flight or sympathetic state,
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  which I always like has asked for you to describe the kind of inner labrador with these
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  two competing systems, then if it's barking at everything that you know there's a problem,
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  it's barking when you need it to, you know, it's well trained.
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  But if this inner labrador of this sympathetic, fight or flight response is always active,
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  it's going to start taking away from all those other vital systems.
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  You're not going to digest food as well.
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  You're not going to have actually as easier time thinking, you're going to start experiencing
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  brain fog.
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  And it's going to slowly, slowly degrade you over time, because you never have a time
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  where your body is able to direct the energy to maintaining and keeping this course
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  system up.
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  And it's going to, it's going to knock yours off of you.
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  Well, and I want to, I'm going to speak to what, what a lot of people can relate to.
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  And that is, that sympathetic nervous system, if it starts shutting down the non-core processes
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  that are essential to survival, one of the things that gets shut down, for instance,
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  is your digestive system.
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  It is.
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  Like your digestive system doesn't even function the way it should, which leads to additional
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  cortisol release, which also leads to weight gain.
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  And people can relate to the fact that living in a stressful environment leads to weight
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  gain, because there are people I know who live in this stress, hypersympathetic state
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  all the time, and they say things like, I hardly even touch a food, and I can't lose a
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  pound.
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  Well, I'm sure they feel that way, but they are more than hardly touching food, because
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  what happens when you're a sympathetic state is, first off, your stomach essentially turns
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  off for the main part, and you end up not bringing in nearly as many nutrients as you would
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  in a parasympathetic state.
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  This means that you have to eat more in order to get the calories that you need.
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  Well, and you need more for the nutrients that you need, so you're consistently feel
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  hungry.
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  And on top of that, you'll, you'll end up bringing in more calories, and you really want
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  to.
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  And so this leads to a state where your body is slowly decomposing.
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  It's great for small bursts.
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  It's terrible for consistent living.
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  100%.
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  And, and, but part of that too, is that when that, when that digestive system starts to
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  slow down and shut down, even if you are eating less, your body doesn't, you're
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  you're shutting off your metabolism.
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  You are.
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  So, so you're not even burning calories the way that you normally would, and it's funny
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  to say like in a, in a stressed sympathetic response, you're not even burning calories
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  the same way you would in a relaxed state.
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  Because it's trying to keep you alive.
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  I mean, so this interlaborator is, is, is your friend, or at least wants to be?
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  It's constantly, it's your companions trying to keep you alive, it's trying to keep you
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  in the state that's going to keep you survival, but the problem is your brain is constantly
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  telling your interlaborator that we are going to die right now.
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  Yes.
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  If we don't do this, and it's not true, you have food, you're still going to be able to
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  eat, you're just going to be able to drink water, as long as you have the base necessities,
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  you will survive.
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  But with how our society is constructed, we have social media's nowadays, with how our
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  work responsibilities are, and we weren't built for this, by the way, we were built for
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  living and hunting and gathering and surviving on a base level.
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  So you have this massive, unbalanced component here, and your brain's constantly telling your
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  sympathetic nervous system to be active, to being that fighter flight state to survive,
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  because you need to get that food in.
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  You need to be able to bring that water, I mean, like, and you need to be able to keep
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  those base necessities going, when in reality, you have those base necessities already.
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  And the key is, is if you can go back to a parasympathetic state, you're going to live longer,
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  you're going to live a much happier life.
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  I mean, no one likes being stressed, for the most part, I mean, a little bit of stress
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  here and there's fine, but no one likes being that constant fighter flight state, and I
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  was there for a very long time.
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  Well, you and I were just talking before we even started recording, and I was telling
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  you, for instance, about a client of mine, and we fired her, and I just said, I can't
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  deal with you anymore.
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  Like, this has nothing to do with work quality, this has nothing to do with anything other
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  than, I made the comment that having her in my life has actually, my sympathetic nervous
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  system is always on overdrive, and sometimes, and when we honestly do, and I'll give her
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  a pass on some of this and say, sometimes she's not saying anything, but it's the fear
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  I live in of what the next text message looks like, or what the next email looks like,
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  because it's this instability that is forever creating an anticipated issue, and the anticipation
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  itself is just as strong as the action.
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  The fear that something's going to happen is, in most cases, worse than what actually
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  is ever going to happen, and yet fear is living out a scenario that's unlikely to even
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  happen.
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  But bodies are responding, endorphically, in a way that actually is, it's as if it's
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  happening.
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  As if it's actually happening.
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  It's trauma and drama, I would say, trauma and drama is all around us, and when you
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  have trauma or drama, it conditions an interlaborator saying, this thing right here is going to
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  kill you.
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  And once your avatar thinks it's going to kill you, it's going to get into that state,
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  so you're ready to fight it, if you're ready to flee, or freeze or fawn, actually, I would
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  include two, which are all part of your fight or flight state.
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  And the key is, is telling that interlaborator and training it to be like, no, it's not going
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  to kill me.
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  Yes, this person is a terrible person, and if you have a person, that's a type three or
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  type four person, which, reday, fast freeze, most recent book, if you haven't yet, heavily
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  meditated.
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  He talks about in there, massive reset for my own framework, understanding humanity, and
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  I actually love the framework quite a bit.
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  Which type threes or type fours are folks that always focus on win loose scenarios.
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  If you have someone like that in your life, and you're starting to have that interlaborator
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  or conditioned, you really shouldn't be interacting with them.
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  And you do the right thing, I would say, at Mark here, and bringing them out of your
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  life.
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  Otherwise, otherwise, that lavator is going to get more and more at you, even when they're
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  not around.
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  And what's funny is, like, making that decision in my life with some social hygiene was
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  literally for me, like, my nervous system has downregulated just knowing that this will
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  end, that the anticipation of an ending has actually downregulated my nervous system.
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  What's interesting is, I've actually watched hers go through the roof, and I'm like,
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  exactly.
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  Because that's exactly right.
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  If she's a win loose person, she wants you to lose, and she wants to win, and by cutting
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  her out or cutting her out, I think it's a lose loose.
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  Because when loses to me don't make sense, because I know I was with Dave, actually,
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  you know, at a thing, and it was a small gathering and was talking to him about his type
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  three type four stuff, and I actually was saying, like, we talk about win lose people.
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  It's the for me against you kind of mentality, and I'm like, the problem is, is I think
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  so many people who are in a win lose mindset actually have lose lose outcomes consistently.
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  Yeah, 100%.
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  Like, you're mad at me because you don't think that I should win out of this scenario,
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  but me losing ends up making you lose too.
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  And I've actually, using hers an example, and I'm sorry to go there, but my nervous system
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  is right there.
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  Yeah.
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  But using that as an example, like, I've actually told her, like, she's the only client
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  that I've ever worked with that I refuse to allow access to anyone on my team.
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  And my whole team is very client-forward.
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  They are white glove, you know, I'll say trained, but mine did.
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  And, you know, very white glove, I refuse to let anybody even reply to an email.
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  Like it all goes through me.
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  And I've told her, like, the reason is, your communication is so aggressive that I'm
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  afraid that if my team saw the way you communicate, they wouldn't want to work for you.
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  And then you're not going to get the best work that you're going to get.
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  Like, I have to filter everything you say to get them to actually work with you.
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  I want to say something quickly.
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  I would not do not consider yourself the filter for that type of negativity, because it
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  will clog in on you.
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  I understand protecting the team, because I did the same thing.
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  I had a situation where there was a win-lose or actually realistically more lose-lose
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  person.
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  They destroyed their entire, they destroyed part of their career doing what they did.
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  Sad.
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  No, it's terrible for all people around, and it lost me one of the core members of my
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  team.
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  I loved working with them, but they got so stressed because of what happened here, because
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  I had allowed them access, which was the problem, that we lost them.
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  That's just something I hope, that's actually a trauma I hold to this day, that individual
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  and what they did is it's never going to fully leave me.
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  So I understand doing that, but you're not the filter.
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  I think that's a wrong mindset.
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  You are.
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  No.
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  If anything, you're the blockade, keeping them away.
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  Right, right, right.
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  If anything, you're the blockade.
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  Or not the filter, you're the blockade.
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  And they know the energy anyways, like energy doesn't stop with me, like that passes
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  from me to them too.
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  Yes.
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  That's why that just needs to end, which is again, is a hygiene issue on my part.
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  Sometimes you need to clear the deck of the things that stress you out.
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  But I want to actually touch on, I'm using that as an example of one of the things that
• 14:30
  keeps my nervous system high, but there's so many other things, like literally, what are
• 14:37
  some of the things?
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  Give me four or five things that you say that keep our nervous systems up in this sympathetic
• 14:42
  state.
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  I'd say the biggest thing is trauma and drama.
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  I would say that actually likely fits into both.
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  And the trauma piece can actually last for a very, very long time after the drama ends.
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  And anything that reminds you even close of that, get you right back there.
• 14:57
  One of the other things that I think a lot of people don't really do a lot of thinking
• 15:00
  about is not having good social hygiene, I think it's actually a big thing, who you're
• 15:05
  surrounding yourself with.
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  Primarily, if you have people in your life, even if they're not when lose or lose, lose
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  people, but if you have people that are even when win, but for whatever reason, it's constantly
• 15:14
  edging on your trauma or drama.
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  It's going to cause problems and you're going to end up having scenarios where even if
• 15:20
  it's not their fault, it's just a little still not something you can work with.
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  At least not until you go and do the reframing and you go and bring yourself and bring yourself
• 15:29
  through that trauma and understand why you're feeling this way.
• 15:34
  I think another big thing is we have terrible lifestyles right now in the United States.
• 15:39
  There's a ton of substances that we're consuming on a consistent basis, whether through
• 15:42
  the air or through the food or through the water, that we really shouldn't be.
• 15:45
  I think that's very well known and that can actually, that can make it easier to go into
• 15:49
  that sympathetic state on accident because your body is going into panic mode.
• 15:53
  It's like, it's the panic button and whatever puts your body into panic mode, it gets you
• 15:56
  into a sympathetic state and once it's in panic mode, it's really hard to get it out
• 16:00
  without some sort of intervention.
• 16:03
  I would say that the thing where I find myself going to sympathetic state as well is feeling
• 16:09
  this need to succeed and this need to constantly engage.
• 16:14
  Social media is a terrible thing too because it'll constantly encourage you to go for that
• 16:18
  next dopamine rush.
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  It'll constantly encourage you to be in that quick reaction and switch state, which is
• 16:23
  your fight or flight state.
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  Social media does that to you over time.
• 16:27
  One of the things I would was trying to get in there and I mean, you've gone into a lot
• 16:31
  deeper things than I was even going to go to and because what I was going to say is
• 16:35
  what are the things that keep us in our sympathetic nervous system?
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  Cell phone alerts.
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  Having the cell phone next to the bed is not just an EMF thing, but having the cell phone
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  next to the bed literally encourages me to check every time I see a little light flicker
• 16:50
  on the telephone to read the alert.
• 16:53
  Someone sends you an Instagram message and I'm like, well, not do I need to check it?
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  Because you're going to get anxious.
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  What happens to you?
• 16:59
  Anxious about the response?
• 17:00
  Is this something important?
• 17:01
  Is it something that I really need to take a look at right now?
• 17:03
  In the brain, my background is clinical psychology and I've just said that a bunch and
• 17:07
  but the, you know, and I always look at that the brain doesn't like an open, an open
• 17:13
  loop.
• 17:14
  It wants everything closed.
• 17:15
  It wants everything closed.
• 17:16
  And I want to bring everything to fruition and if there's anything that makes me think
• 17:20
  there's an open loop, I need to go close it.
• 17:23
  And something as little as, and you notice most notifications, just tell you there is
• 17:27
  a notification.
• 17:28
  They don't tell you what the notification is.
• 17:30
  Because I want you to open the app.
• 17:31
  Because I want you to open the app.
• 17:34
  And it's like, so I see a, you know, John Hacker sent you, you know, liked your post or
• 17:41
  whatever.
• 17:42
  And I'm like, what post do you like?
• 17:43
  And your brain starts that cycle all over again, which again, doesn't allow me to completely
• 17:51
  shut down and rest.
• 17:52
  And it's like, and I think that's actually half the hygiene of keeping the phone in
• 17:55
  the room.
• 17:56
  I mean, it is, it's literally keeping, but nowadays like people's phones are hooked to, I mean,
• 18:01
  you can't even watch a TV program because you got your phone linked to your smart TV
• 18:04
  and then your smart TV even shows you the notifications.
• 18:07
  And, but it's, I'm never going to do that on my spectrum ever, ever, never, never.
• 18:11
  But it's the, it's the phone notifications do it.
• 18:13
  It's the 24 hour access that people have to your lives.
• 18:18
  It's, it is the, the, the, now we've got the commercials that play even in the middle
• 18:22
  of our streaming services that it's worth paying the extra $3 a month to not have the
• 18:27
  commercials.
• 18:28
  And again, it can, it can actually put you into that state.
• 18:31
  I mean, this is what I was saying before, like we have a terrible hygiene environment right
• 18:34
  now for sympathetic activation, and it gets all over the place.
• 18:38
  And because some of the activation cells, if someone goes into fight or flight mode and
• 18:43
  they see something, and that gives them a little bit of introvert rush, it gives them
• 18:46
  their heart beating a little bit.
• 18:48
  And that in turn is going to make you be more willing to remember the product and eventually
• 18:53
  buy the product.
• 18:54
  So sympathetic activation is all over the place.
• 18:56
  And it's highly incentivized for companies to use it as a methodology.
• 19:00
  It's kind of similar to how sex sells.
• 19:02
  But in this case, it's fight or flight sells because you know, a lot of companies don't
• 19:05
  be associated with, you know, the whole sex thing.
• 19:09
  And I mean, it's, it is kind of crazy to be honest with you.
• 19:13
  How bad it's gotten.
• 19:15
  We have some of the highest anxiety rates that we've ever had.
• 19:18
  And I'm not even going to say just that, the stress is the highest has ever been.
• 19:22
  And I would really say stress resilience is the lowest it has ever been.
• 19:26
  If you go back even 10 years and you talk to folks or 10, 20, 30 years, it's very clear
• 19:32
  that they lived in a world that was very different from what we live in today.
• 19:34
  And I grew up in this world, by the way, I'm a younger guy.
• 19:37
  So I, this is mostly what we want to be experiencing.
• 19:40
  But it's very clear that when you remove these type of stimuli, you're able to have more
• 19:43
  time to bring up hair synthetic activity and strengthen that system so that when you
• 19:47
  need to go to sympathetic, you can do it right.
• 19:50
  But with all these stimuli in this constant overwhelm, which is I really think what it
• 19:55
  is, you never get a chance to strengthen that pair of synthetic system.
• 19:58
  You never get a chance to train your inner laboratory.
• 20:01
  And then we get so surprised that most people's inner laboratories are barking at everything.
• 20:04
  Well, that's no surprise to me.
• 20:07
  Well, I, I, I'll go into traffic is busier than it's ever been in road rage and everything
• 20:14
  we see.
• 20:15
  You, you call a customer service line nowadays and you get barked at by the person on the
• 20:18
  telephone.
• 20:19
  It's like, I'm just calling to ask you for help on something like you're supposed to
• 20:22
  be the friendly person.
• 20:23
  Yeah.
• 20:24
  Like, just we are where we're at this heightened level of awareness all the time.
• 20:28
  And I think for most people, there is a, there's a complete disconnect on, I don't
• 20:33
  if you think they know how to bring it down.
• 20:35
  And in some cases, they don't even know that you can bring it down.
• 20:40
  And I think that that manifests differently for everybody.
• 20:44
  I, I, I'll, I'll say this like she's probably going to watch this episode.
• 20:48
  But I have an aunt that I love dearly, um, who literally has nothing like if she is in
• 20:56
  a zero stress situation, I say that she will find a way to be stressed out about it.
• 21:03
  And it's because here, and, and I'll say this, and I mean this genuinely because the,
• 21:08
  the endorphin rush that the dopamine hits, as you mentioned, and this is the whole we
• 21:13
  use the word gamification because that sounds much kinder than dopamine addiction, which
• 21:19
  is what it is.
• 21:20
  No, it definitely is.
• 21:21
  It is a dopamine addiction that, you know, every time I, I push a button, something
• 21:26
  chimes and tells me I won, like I just keep pushing the button, right?
• 21:29
  It's the slot machine type thing that the casinos, um, and the reality is, is like that
• 21:34
  dopamine hit is addictive.
• 21:36
  Yes.
• 21:37
  And people get addicted to the dopamine.
• 21:39
  And I don't get dopamine hits in the parasympathetic state.
• 21:43
  And so you, it's, it's, it's simple.
• 21:46
  I would point it as simple cells, simple cells, because I mean, it's sympathetic state
• 21:50
  cells.
• 21:51
  If you're in sympathetic state, you're going to get that dopamine more, hit more often
• 21:53
  because, oh gosh, you finally did it.
• 21:55
  You did the goal.
• 21:56
  You would defy our flight.
• 21:57
  You succeeded.
• 21:58
  Hit.
• 21:59
  And it's it.
• 22:00
  And then it brings you back to that sympathetic state to do it again.
• 22:03
  And it's, it's a terrible practice on the word house.
• 22:06
  So I go there to say that the sympathetic nervous system is addictive.
• 22:09
  Yes.
• 22:10
  I mean, being in that survival mode is addictive.
• 22:13
  And it's, it's the, and for some people, like, was someone like my aunt, who just lives
• 22:19
  worried, like, and that, that to me, like, that's weird to me.
• 22:23
  My mom was the same way, like she was nervous about everything, regardless of what was going
• 22:29
  on.
• 22:30
  And, but that, that nervous system state is addictive.
• 22:33
  And a lot of that is the dopamine rush, right?
• 22:35
  A lot of that is that same type of thing.
• 22:38
  But I don't think, and some of it is, what do I want to say?
• 22:43
  Like, they're probably low level cases of dopamine addiction.
• 22:46
  But then we've got the people who are the extreme, you know, the bungee jumping parachuting
• 22:51
  crowd who are the thrill seekers, which is the same thing.
• 22:56
  It is.
• 22:57
  It is.
• 22:58
  And it's massively curious.
• 22:59
  I'd say it's, it's not only, um, simple addiction or sympathetic addiction.
• 23:04
  That's a problem here.
• 23:05
  It's also that once your nervous system learns that a state will continue your survival,
• 23:10
  it likes to adapt to that state.
• 23:11
  So once you've been forced into a state by trauma or drama, typically I, I like using that
• 23:15
  because it's usually one of those two things.
• 23:17
  It's trauma or drama that does it.
• 23:18
  Once you're forcing that state, if your body says, okay, this is the only way we can
• 23:21
  survive now.
• 23:22
  And hey, I've been doing this for the last month because we've had such a long period
• 23:26
  of trauma and drama.
• 23:28
  It might say, okay, well, this is clearly better.
• 23:31
  Let's continue doing this.
• 23:33
  And then it'll find other reasons in create trauma drama.
• 23:36
  And this is personally, this is my fan theory on how type three, type four, so I'll call
• 23:41
  them type five for loose, loose, um, how they're built.
• 23:44
  It is, they've gone, I feel sad for people that get into the state because it's a terrible
• 23:51
  state to live in.
• 23:52
  I wouldn't, I was in a constant anxiety state for most of my childhood.
• 23:56
  I had terrible OCD growing up.
• 23:58
  It all will skilled me very frankly and it's terrible not having control of your mind.
• 24:04
  And the whole thing, everything that drives me is liberating human consciousness wherever
• 24:09
  I can because I don't want anyone else to ever experience that.
• 24:13
  It's, that's what keeps me going, but it's crazy because every, all the system is set
• 24:20
  up to make sure that you can't do that.
• 24:22
  It is set up to constantly put you into a synthetic state because if you're super anxious,
• 24:26
  you're more likely to watch the VV, you're more likely to watch the news, you're more
• 24:29
  likely to care about politics, if you're more likely to buy things, you're more likely
• 24:32
  to buy products, you're more likely to engage in our consumerized economy and you're going
• 24:36
  to make some people more money.
• 24:37
  And even if that money is only a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent, it
• 24:41
  doesn't matter because it's cumulative because if they can do that to you and they can
• 24:44
  do that to three million people, that's significant revenue.
• 24:48
  And they'll continue doing that until the day that they're forced to stop.
• 24:51
  I, yes.
• 24:52
  I, I'll end the sympathetic nervous system conversation there because that was, that
• 24:57
  was your moment.
• 24:58
  But I, so I want to, I want to go to our parasympathetic.
• 25:01
  Okay.
• 25:02
  Okay.
• 25:03
  So maybe we'll have a calmer conversation there.
• 25:04
  I think I just, I know.
• 25:05
  I know.
• 25:06
  I'll be honest with you.
• 25:07
  I think it's good.
• 25:08
  I think it's good.
• 25:09
  Yeah.
• 25:10
  But the reality is it's like this sympathetic fighter flight gets a lot of attention because
• 25:12
  we understand the lion showed up and now I have to run.
• 25:15
  And for a lot of people living, particularly in an American culture, there is, there's
• 25:19
  a hundred percent this go, go, go, go, go, type, type thing.
• 25:23
  And there's performance, anxiety, all over the place.
• 25:27
  Parasympathetic is the, everything's okay.
• 25:31
  I would, actually, I would, sorry, I would expand on that mark.
• 25:33
  Yeah.
• 25:34
  It's not just everything's okay.
• 25:35
  It's what's keeping you alive.
• 25:36
  You're, so you're a parasympathetic system is considered your, in total, your autonomic
• 25:40
  nervous system.
• 25:41
  Your sympathetic really is only supposed to deal with those fighter flight scenarios.
• 25:44
  It is very specialized.
• 25:45
  It's meant to be a very small amount of the time.
• 25:47
  Parasympathetic is literally everything else.
• 25:50
  It keeps your stomach moving and keeps your heart beating and it keeps your lungs breathing.
• 25:54
  The things that you don't have to think about that keeps you alive on a consistent basis.
• 25:57
  That's all parasympathetic.
• 25:59
  So when you're constantly sympathetic state, all of those things suffer.
• 26:03
  And so we really need to prioritize strengthening that parasympathetic system and strengthening
• 26:07
  our ability to resist those sympathetic states.
• 26:09
  Well, and I want to go, I want to go even one step deeper to that.
• 26:13
  And that is, yes, parasympathetic is all the stuff that keeps us alive, right?
• 26:17
  It is what, it is what allocates the energy correctly, so that the body is able to do
• 26:21
  what it does.
• 26:22
  And I always think of that allocation as bandwidth, right?
• 26:24
  Like if too many people are online, you're, you know, everybody's signal slows, right?
• 26:30
  We can all relate to internet, yeah, we all relate to internet metaphors, right?
• 26:36
  Like too many people in the office are downloading things.
• 26:38
  Like I remember memos that would go out in offices, you know, saying, you know, if anybody's
• 26:41
  using the internet to stream music at your desk, like, that's a blocked website now because
• 26:46
  it's tearing up too much bandwidth.
• 26:48
  Yeah.
• 26:49
  Well, because the essential things in the office couldn't get done because the non-essential
• 26:52
  things were pulling too much energy.
• 26:54
  Yes.
• 26:55
  And our bodies function that same way.
• 26:58
  But to your point, we need that sympathetic nervous system, sympathetic nervous system
• 27:02
  isn't bad.
• 27:03
  You know, it's specialized.
• 27:05
  And we're, we're, we're trying to run football analogy, we're trying to run special teams
• 27:10
  on the field all the time, and special teams are supposed to only be running special scenarios.
• 27:14
  Well, your sympathetic state is being abused by the content that you consume and by the
• 27:19
  environment that we live in.
• 27:20
  It's being abused and it's reacting now.
• 27:22
  And it's, I always go back to the Interlavator example that day came over this recently.
• 27:27
  But the reason why I keep coming back to that because I think it's an amazing way to
• 27:31
  kind of visualize a third party so you don't have to think about yourself.
• 27:35
  It allows you to actually visualize what was really happening.
• 27:37
  If you abuse a dog, which never do this, if you do this, I hate you, period, never abuse
• 27:43
  dogs and animals.
• 27:44
  They're too precious.
• 27:45
  They're too innocent.
• 27:46
  But if you're to abuse a dog, they will constantly bark at things.
• 27:49
  They will start seeing everything as a threat.
• 27:50
  That's the trauma.
• 27:51
  And that's, it's a trauma and drama.
• 27:53
  And that's part of the abuse.
• 27:55
  Well, and the, the, the real value and understanding sympathetic and parasympathetic is not for us
• 28:00
  to exhaustively define what they are.
• 28:03
  But the real value and there's, there's a, there's a health metric that's being used all over
• 28:09
  the place now called HRV.
• 28:11
  Heart rate variability.
• 28:12
  Literally, and all the people like they're using HRV and my HRV and every people who
• 28:17
  wear aura rings and whoops straps and, and, you know, bio straps and all this other kind
• 28:22
  of stuff, like they're all measuring this HRV.
• 28:26
  And literally if I can just kind of give a simplistic definition of what HRV is, it's
• 28:31
  the body's natural ability to be able to move from sympathetic to parasympathetic smoothly.
• 28:36
  Because when you should be in parasympathetic, how long does it take your body to recover?
• 28:41
  And I, I use the example because people are like they don't necessarily get that.
• 28:45
  And I tell people like if we both ran a mile, the fitness level of you or me is not defined
• 28:54
  by who finished the mile faster.
• 28:57
  The fitness level is actually measured by who's heart went back to normal faster when the
• 29:01
  mile was finished.
• 29:03
  Yes.
• 29:04
  If, if you beat me, because you ran an, a five minute mile and I ran a six minute mile,
• 29:09
  I can't run a five minute while.
• 29:10
  I want to get, I want to get, I didn't want to make that number too high, dude.
• 29:14
  But, but you run an eight minute mile and I run a nine minute mile.
• 29:17
  Yeah.
• 29:18
  And at the end of eight minutes, it takes you ten minutes of with your hands on your
• 29:21
  knees, trying to catch your breath.
• 29:23
  Yeah.
• 29:24
  And I'm enjoying a drink at the bar, like I'm in better shape than you.
• 29:28
  Yes.
• 29:29
  You finished an eight minute mile, I finished an nine minute mile, but I went back to normal
• 29:34
  faster.
• 29:35
  I'm in better physical shape.
• 29:37
  HRV is the same measurement, except it relates to your ability to go into that firefire when
• 29:42
  you feel it's nervous system control.
• 29:45
  So, nervous system fitness, I think, is actually almost fair.
• 29:48
  That's fair.
• 29:49
  And so HRV is kind of that measurement, it's the recovery speed at which a person can
• 29:55
  go from fighter flight back to rest and digest and be able to bounce back and forth freely,
• 30:01
  because it's almost a maturity, I would call it, in the nervous system to know when something
• 30:05
  is actually a fighter flight situation versus a fake fighter flight situation that has
• 30:12
  my body tricked into thinking that life is terrible.
• 30:14
  Well, it's actually almost a discretionary.
• 30:15
  So there's, you can almost consider it a funnel, actually, a little bit.
• 30:19
  You have the discretionary part, where is this something any of you fight or flight or
• 30:21
  not?
• 30:22
  You make that choice.
• 30:23
  Your brain makes that choice, your nervous system makes that choice.
• 30:25
  And then even if you get tricked, if you're able to come back and say, oh, there's really
• 30:29
  some firefly and come back faster, you can experience less time in that sympathetic
• 30:32
  state, you have more time for your body to actually do the things it needs to do.
• 30:35
  It's kind of like the, I would consider having it a parasympathetic state consistently
• 30:39
  just as important, if not even more important than getting a good night's sleep, because
• 30:43
  it's very similar processes.
• 30:45
  And if you're in a sympathetic state while you're sleeping, too, that causes insomnia
• 30:48
  and that causes some of the issues, you really need to be able to bring that down to
• 30:52
  parasympathetic.
• 30:53
  So there's a lot of, a lot of tricks, like I know people, for instance, are like, oh,
• 30:56
  I need to get better sleep, I need to get better sleep, like I'm going to, you know, overdose
• 30:59
  and melatonin and whatever, and it's like, I can go off on that track, but yeah, but
• 31:02
  the reality is, is like this HRV score, why it's so important is because your body needs
• 31:10
  to be in sympathetic when it needs to be in sympathetic, it needs to be in parasympathetic
• 31:16
  otherwise.
• 31:18
  And the ability for your body to move back and forth is actually controlled by a core
• 31:22
  system in your body, obviously, your nervous system, but all of this is actually related
• 31:27
  to what's called the vagus nerve, and the vagus nerve is the only nerve, correct me if
• 31:32
  I'm wrong, that actually runs from the brain to every other part of the body.
• 31:37
  There are branches all over the place, but the vagus nerve actually is the primary nerve
• 31:42
  that runs from the body.
• 31:43
  And arguably recently, there's been a lot of studies that show that vagal nerve blockage
• 31:48
  actually is more running from the gut to the brain rather than the brain to the gut,
• 31:54
  which are some interesting terms there.
• 31:56
  Any part of the nerve that goes through the brain is afferent than everything that goes
• 31:58
  out to the body's afferent.
• 31:59
  The vagus nerve is composed of tons of fibers of both, and vagus actually means wandering
• 32:05
  in Latin, because you hit it on the needle, it wanders the body, and it's the wandering
• 32:10
  nerve, and it's your 10th quenial nerve.
• 32:14
  And it's massively, massively important to have a strong vagus nerve because that leads
• 32:20
  to a strong ability to switch between these different states.
• 32:25
  But I actually do want to touch a little bit more on HRV for a second, because I actually
• 32:29
  find it absolutely fascinating.
• 32:31
  Heart rate variability is, I think we're overhyping it a little bit in the industry right now.
• 32:37
  It's not the NLB all, and there's actually a lot of, so ironically enough, when you
• 32:41
  see HRV, you think it's all the same number, it isn't.
• 32:43
  You can calculate like 10 different ways.
• 32:45
  In some countries, calculate some ways to make it seem the scores are higher.
• 32:48
  Some calculate other ways to be a little bit more logistically accurate, and that causes
• 32:52
  a lot of the discrepancies that you see in the devices in the space.
• 32:55
  But regardless, if you're seeing increases over time, that's usually a good thing.
• 33:00
  But I do want to clarify that, because I have seen it over time.
• 33:03
  I agree with you.
• 33:04
  No, no, no, I agree with you, because I always tell people that HRV consistently, consistency
• 33:08
  is actually more important than the HRV score.
• 33:12
  And you've a consistent ramp up, and a trend line in your HRV is a good thing, regardless
• 33:17
  what the numbers are, and a trend down is a bad thing, regardless what the numbers are.
• 33:22
  And people want to hear like that, oh, my HRV is going to increase by 10 or 35 points.
• 33:27
  And we actually, in my work, we actually do see that quite commonly.
• 33:30
  But realistically, it comes down, your body is so different from person to person.
• 33:36
  What is the score of one point increase for one person?
• 33:38
  Right.
• 33:39
  Can be massive in comparison to what a score creates for another person, where it can be
• 33:43
  almost nothing.
• 33:44
  And that's normal, and that's okay, but that trend line is very important.
• 33:48
  So we touched on the vagus nerve, and this idea that the vagus nerve is this wandering
• 33:52
  nerve that runs the body, and the vagus nerve is ultimately what sends the signal to the
• 33:56
  body as to whether or not we should be alarmed or not.
• 33:59
  Yes.
• 34:00
  That when the brain gets overstimulated, the brain uses the vagus nerve, along with some
• 34:05
  other pathways too.
• 34:06
  Primarily.
• 34:07
  But to communicate to the rest of the body what they should be doing based on the current
• 34:11
  circumstance.
• 34:12
  Yes.
• 34:13
  And if the brain recognizes a circumstance as being overly stimulated, it's going
• 34:18
  to overstimulate the rest of the body because of that vagus nerve.
• 34:21
  And even when the brain knows that something isn't necessarily a stimulated situation,
• 34:27
  the vagus nerve can still send the message that there's a problem because it doesn't
• 34:31
  all happen instantaneously.
• 34:32
  Well, and it's also, it's a speed thing.
• 34:35
  So your automatic nerve system is all about reacting as fast as possible to those like
• 34:38
  dangerous events.
• 34:39
  And if you're a vagus nerve, or even your entire autonomic nervous system is conditioned
• 34:44
  to react in a certain way to a certain stimuli, even when your brain is like, this is safe,
• 34:49
  your autonomic nervous system.
• 34:50
  There's a subcontinuous response.
• 34:51
  Yes, it's a subcontinuous response.
• 34:52
  It's not a choice.
• 34:54
  Yes.
• 34:55
  And like that's the thing, like that's the trauma and drama causes it such a way to condition
• 35:02
  your nerve towards not a choice to be in these states.
• 35:04
  You are forced into these states consistently.
• 35:06
  I used to work with a client in psych practice years back who it was the weirdest thing,
• 35:12
  but she had been abused and was having responses to any man that she came in contact with
• 35:19
  that wore strong cologne.
• 35:21
  And because she didn't know what was going on, but it took a long time to figure out
• 35:26
  that when she was around a man who wore strong cologne, her defense height went up because
• 35:31
  it reminded her of her abuser.
• 35:33
  Yes.
• 35:34
  And it was like, it didn't even matter the scent.
• 35:35
  It was anytime a man wore strong cologne, she went into response and consciously had no
• 35:40
  idea this was even happening.
• 35:42
  And again, it was this very subconscious response to things.
• 35:46
  I do want to move on because I want to get to Zen Budden.
• 35:49
  Yeah, of course.
• 35:50
  I will say on that particular topic, you could probably do a full lengthy podcast on why
• 35:55
  that happens.
• 35:56
  100%.
• 35:57
  100%.
• 35:58
  Yes, the Zen Budden.
• 35:59
  Well, we actually did.
• 36:00
  Yeah.
• 36:01
  I want to give time there.
• 36:02
  So we've had this whole conversation about nervous system, sympathetic, parasympathetic,
• 36:05
  the movement between the necessity of being able to regulate how fast the sympathetic
• 36:10
  nervous system is being triggered, but also how fast it's being down-regulated, of course.
• 36:16
  And the necessity of making sure that we are doing everything in our power to deal
• 36:19
  with what we refer to as vagal tone.
• 36:22
  Yes.
• 36:23
  I will say this.
• 36:24
  I like the concepts behind vagal tone.
• 36:27
  I think again, it's one of these scenarios where it's a commonly used term to explain
• 36:30
  a very complicated phenomenon.
• 36:32
  There's a ton more to it.
• 36:34
  It's not like you actually have a singular tone, you're vagus, what that is between
• 36:38
  different people is different, too.
• 36:40
  But yes, the vagus nervous mass-wing point, that's the work that we do.
• 36:43
  Word the world's first and only ultrasound vagus nerve stimulator.
• 36:47
  That's what this Zen Bud is.
• 36:48
  It's a headset.
• 36:49
  You wear it five minutes a day every day, and it can help you be able to better switch
• 36:53
  between that sympathetic and parasympathetic state.
• 36:56
  And I really want to emphasize here, like this is actually the, by far, the most effective
• 37:00
  vagus nerve stimulator, to exist.
• 37:03
  And I say this, based off of the day that we've collected, we recently published a peer
• 37:08
  reviewed study in the Gerald Medical Internet Research.
• 37:12
  And we saw over the course of four weeks, a five-mancipited stimulation, in an at-home
• 37:17
  setting, which that typically brings down these types of scores and about to share with
• 37:21
  you, because people can misuse it, people could not be compliant.
• 37:24
  But over the four weeks with 28 individuals in an at-home setting, five-mancipated, we
• 37:29
  saw a 78.6% remission rate in anxiety.
• 37:34
  For reference, that's massive.
• 37:36
  This is like close to forever.
• 37:37
  In fact, people that came to our study with moderate, severe anxiety, left without.
• 37:41
  They would no longer be clinically diagnosed.
• 37:43
  I was actually talking to you in front of mine, and this, to me, almost feels like acupuncture
• 37:47
  for the nervous system, but you're finding a very specific place, because the way that
• 37:52
  your device works is, because I said it's a headset, but it's actually not doing anything.
• 37:56
  It does sound like nothing with your ears.
• 38:00
  Yeah, no.
• 38:01
  So it's kind of crazy, because it's not working on the cochlea, so it doesn't not
• 38:04
  what you hear.
• 38:05
  The headset tells you, you have this region of the ear called the Symbacontra region,
• 38:08
  which is innervated by the Eurricular Branch of the Vegas nerve, which we've been talking
• 38:11
  about.
• 38:12
  And in that region, we send gentle ultrasound waves to stimulate that nerve.
• 38:16
  And the really neat thing is that there are plenty of devices in the space that have tried
• 38:19
  to do this for years.
• 38:20
  And I want to clarify something a little quick, because you're saying you're stimulating
• 38:23
  a nerve, but stimulating doesn't mean heightening.
• 38:26
  No.
• 38:27
  Stimulation of that nerve actually means that you're stimulating the relaxation.
• 38:30
  Yes, we're stimulating that nerve, right?
• 38:33
  Yeah, that's the scientific term, but you realistically agree on this.
• 38:36
  We're helping down-regulate that sympathetic response.
• 38:38
  Right.
• 38:39
  And in up-regulate your ability to move between those responses as necessary, which is
• 38:43
  the reason why we see HIV shifts, but again, HIV is not the best metric, but it is
• 38:46
  one metric.
• 38:47
  Right.
• 38:48
  And to somebody who's listening, literally this device looks like a headset, but the headset
• 38:52
  is just the form factor.
• 38:53
  Oh, yeah.
• 38:54
  It has nothing to do with wearing a headset.
• 38:56
  It has nothing to do with you listening to anything.
• 38:59
  It's just an easy way to get to that.
• 39:00
  It's an easy way to get to that Symbacontra region right here.
• 39:02
  And in the pinnacle of the ear, which means the outside ear.
• 39:05
  Right.
• 39:06
  Because you could probably turn it into like a clip that goes on your ear and just as easily.
• 39:09
  You released an all-large design plan as far as you can.
• 39:11
  I know.
• 39:12
  I know.
• 39:13
  And the blue print.
• 39:14
  Yeah.
• 39:15
  The fact that it's a head, well, what I don't want to do is I don't want someone to think
• 39:16
  that we say it's a headset and then they think that they're listening to neural beats
• 39:20
  or something.
• 39:21
  No.
• 39:22
  This is not by neural beats.
• 39:23
  So, realistically, the single on those is very low.
• 39:25
  You do see a signal with by neural beats, and so it's around 10%.
• 39:27
  It's actually very similar to what you see with electrical vagus nerve devices.
• 39:30
  It's around 10%.
• 39:31
  This is totally different than that.
• 39:32
  This is actually using ultrasound to relax the nervous system, not through audio stimulation,
• 39:40
  not through any kind of listening or visual.
• 39:43
  But the direct stimulation of the, well, direct modulation actually is the best way to
• 39:47
  say it.
• 39:48
  The direct modulation of the regular branch of the vagus nerve.
• 39:51
  We can do that with ultrasound, which means that we're able to get the right amount
• 39:54
  of energy to the nerve consistently.
• 39:55
  Right.
• 39:56
  There's a ton of electrical vagus nerve devices in the space.
• 39:58
  You can clip a tens unit to your ear if you want to try to get this type of effect.
• 40:01
  You only ever see...
• 40:02
  Yeah, you don't know.
• 40:03
  Well, it's very painful.
• 40:05
  And part of the problem is that the intensity that you're able to get with that is actually
• 40:08
  exceedingly low.
• 40:09
  Because if you turn it up too high, you start burning yourself with electrical stimulation.
• 40:12
  Yeah.
• 40:13
  And so...
• 40:14
  This isn't electrical.
• 40:15
  This isn't electrical.
• 40:16
  But what exists today, what people have been trying to use for a very long time, are
• 40:18
  these electrical devices, either on the neck or on the ear, and the problem with them
• 40:22
  is that they don't have a good energy deposition.
• 40:24
  You get very, very low intensity stimulation with these devices.
• 40:28
  Because if you turn it up too high, you start to get burning, you start to get shocking,
• 40:31
  you cause pain, you can cause migraines.
• 40:33
  Right.
• 40:34
  Well, all things that you probably want to avoid, and even doing that, you still don't
• 40:37
  get good energy at the nerve.
• 40:39
  With ultrasound, we're able to do a much higher energy load, still well within parameters.
• 40:44
  But we're able to do a higher energy load without causing discomfort.
• 40:47
  Yeah.
• 40:48
  And what's important about this for anybody listening is you're using a very non-invasive
• 40:53
  technique here because it's ultrasound, so you're not feeling it.
• 40:58
  You're not hearing anything, you're not hearing anything, you're not feeling anything,
• 41:03
  you're not doing any kind of damage to your body by putting ultrasound in your brain.
• 41:07
  It's literally just, you're using ultrasound technology to almost massage the nerve to
• 41:14
  you.
• 41:15
  I mean, that's definitely a way to say it.
• 41:17
  I'm lay person in all your science, you're too smart.
• 41:21
  But trying to bring that down is that you're bringing down the nervous system, and ultimately
• 41:25
  what you're doing is you're heightened, but this brings you down.
• 41:28
  And then you go back to heightened, and this is going to bring you down.
• 41:31
  And repeatedly doing this down regulation kind of helps your body train.
• 41:36
  The same way that you would be working out a muscle, repeatedly doing something over time
• 41:41
  actually causes it to be reactive.
• 41:44
  Your body just knows how to do it on its own because you've trained it.
• 41:48
  Kind of like how many people remember how they drove to work yesterday.
• 41:52
  You don't, because you don't remember the drive in, because it's almost an autopilot
• 41:56
  situation for you now, because you get in the car and you go, it's autopilot, and you're
• 42:01
  kind of getting your nervous system to get that autopilot down regulation through that
• 42:05
  continuous training.
• 42:07
  And you're saying that 78% of people who use it are noticing a reduction in anxiety levels.
• 42:12
  It's not reduction, it's remission.
• 42:13
  There's a big difference between what's zero.
• 42:15
  I want to make that clear.
• 42:16
  Remission means that they are essentially no longer present in contactable.
• 42:19
  They're not detectable.
• 42:20
  And so a plenty of companies can well claim like 40 to 60% reduction in symptoms.
• 42:25
  But these are folks that are extremely anxious at the start, so which we're extremely down
• 42:29
  to severe.
• 42:30
  Or they went from severe down to moderate.
• 42:31
  We went from severe and moderate down to minimal or to none, which is incredible.
• 42:35
  This is the highest efficacy rate that we've seen actually in the biggest of space.
• 42:39
  No, that's incredible.
• 42:40
  Except for the implantables, which no one wants to do, don't do it and implant it out.
• 42:44
  Your body will automatically try to reject anything foreign.
• 42:46
  He causes a scar tissue and over time, you'll slowly get worse and worse.
• 42:50
  And then you have all the different metal loyalties.
• 42:51
  Yeah, yeah.
• 42:52
  The whole space issue.
• 42:53
  I respect the scientists that are trying to do work in there, but it's realistically,
• 42:57
  it's not a great product for us.
• 42:58
  Yeah, not a recommendation.
• 43:00
  But this thing, and I say, I've used the Zen Bud, I love the Zen Bud.
• 43:05
  I love the idea that not only down regulating that nervous system, do you notice anxiety
• 43:10
  relief, but people will end up with real sleep.
• 43:12
  That's actually deep sleep and not interrupted sleep and insomnia.
• 43:16
  People will notice that they actually find themselves thinking clearly because they're
• 43:20
  not in this heightened dopamine state on the regular basis, they'll find themselves in
• 43:24
  better, and I always look at a holistic approach to everything and that is we're not just talking
• 43:29
  about a physiological thing here because down regulated nervous systems lead to better
• 43:33
  social engagement.
• 43:34
  They lead to better romantic relationships because you're not on edge all the time.
• 43:38
  They lead to higher work performance because you're not in this panic state on a regular
• 43:42
  basis.
• 43:43
  They lead to better financial decisions because you're not in this fight or flight.
• 43:47
  Literally, the holistic human ends up getting treated when that nervous system is able
• 43:53
  to be down regulated.
• 43:54
  100%.
• 43:55
  I think the biggest thing is that, again, your parasympathetic state is responsible for
• 44:01
  you, essentially, in primary, keeping you alive.
• 44:04
  It's keeping you alive.
• 44:06
  If you turn off your life support systems, you're going to start having problems.
• 44:11
  That's what you're doing when you're sympathetic all the time.
• 44:13
  What we do is we help you turn that back on, and we help you train the interlaborator
• 44:17
  to be a bit calmer and help you get through whatever abuse or drama or trauma and drama.
• 44:23
  I love using that term, drama and drama, but whatever it's gone through, we're able to
• 44:27
  bring it back to a state where it's able to do what it needs to do for you.
• 44:30
  It's your friend.
• 44:31
  Your vagus nervous, your friend, it wants to help you, but sadly, life has caused issues
• 44:36
  with it.
• 44:37
  Your trauma and drama or abuse has caused it to become more reactive than it needs to
• 44:42
  be.
• 44:43
  If we can help you retrain it, help you reconnect with your vagus nervous, it'll continue
• 44:47
  to be your friend.
• 44:48
  Once it's your friend, it's your best friend, and they'll do so much good for you.
• 44:52
  Mark, make sure to keep using that five minutes a day.
• 44:55
  It's a cumulative effect.
• 44:56
  It's a great idea.
• 44:57
  100%.
• 44:58
  It's like it's a building on muscle.
• 44:59
  You've got to keep using it, man.
• 45:00
  100%.
• 45:01
  But doing a single five-minute session is not nearly enough once every day.
• 45:04
  In the clinical trial that I mentioned, we started to see rather significant results
• 45:08
  as soon as the first week.
• 45:09
  That was, I think, 60 of the 78% remission rate was in the first week, but you still have
• 45:15
  to keep using it after that.
• 45:17
  Well, anybody who knows me knows I'm all about the positive energy vibes.
• 45:19
  I don't want to go in another direction.
• 45:21
  Guys, I encourage you down here in the show notes.
• 45:23
  You're going to see links to ZenBud.
• 45:25
  I want you to go check it out, absolutely worth the investment to get involved in this.
• 45:30
  Links to actually find out how to follow ZenBud, as well as John Hacker here on social
• 45:34
  media will all be included below, as well.
• 45:36
  Check this out.
• 45:37
  It is beyond important to make sure that we understand that getting into a parasympathetic
• 45:42
  nervous system, I say that we talk in the space of longevity about the length of life,
• 45:48
  but being able to spend life in more of a parasympathetic nervous system is what I'm
• 45:52
  going to refer to as quality of life because the enjoyment that comes out of just having
• 45:57
  some peace out of life and having meaningful relationships, meaningful interactions at work,
• 46:04
  meaningful purpose-driven moments out of our life only come from when we're in this
• 46:10
  Zen place.
• 46:12
  The fact that we actually are able to harness this technology to put ourselves into a quality
• 46:17
  of life situation is, to me, I would say it's invaluable.
• 46:22
  There's no money that's worth being able to get there.
• 46:24
  John, thank you for coming in today.
• 46:26
  I appreciate you having me.
• 46:27
  Thanks for coming in and we'll catch you next time.