Latest / The Refrigeration Mentor Podcast / Episode 221. Tips for Better Service Calls (Residential vs Commercial) with Craig Migliaccio from AC Service Tech

Transcript

Episode 221. Tips for Better Service Calls (Residential vs Commercial) with Craig Migliaccio from AC Service Tech · The Refrigeration Mentor Podcast

• 0:00
  Trevor: super excited you're here today. I love hanging out with you, sharing knowledge, always bringing the top guests from all around the world from different walks of life.
• 0:01
  And today is a good friend of mine, Craig Migliaccio from AC Service Tech. This guy is an industry expert, social media glore for our industry, just pushing the boundaries with these videos. Which I'm super excited to get into this conversation with him because he's doing great things on the residential light commercial HVAC side and I work mostly in commercial refrigeration.
• 0:02
  So we're going to be diving into talking about taking service calls and the different, the differences between service calls when you're taking a residential and light commercial one versus a commercial refrigeration one. Cause there's a lot of similarities. But there are a lot of differences. You got to go and check out his YouTube channel.
• 0:03
  Almost 500, a half a million subscribers. That's amazing. We'll get into that as well, as well as you've got a book out there. He's got a mini inverter book, I believe. Well, you've got multiple books. It's not only one, you've got a multiple books out there. I checked out on Amazon. Over 2, 005 star reviews.
• 0:04
  You want to go check it out. This will be in the description. I think the latest one was the inverter mini split book, which he, he kindly gave me a copy, really appreciate that. I went through it, lots of great pictures, like really good content. So you definitely want to check that out if you're in that market.
• 0:05
  And even if you're not, it's such a great learning tool because I, since I became in the industry. I'm learning from everything residential to chillers to industrial stuff and growing and expanding your mind and refrigeration nature is going to make you so, so much better. Super excited for this conversation.
• 0:06
  Craig, welcome to the refrigeration mentor podcast. How you doing brother?
• 0:07
  Craig: Trevor, I really appreciate you having me on and I'm really looking forward to our discussions, man.
• 0:08
  Trevor: . So why don't we dive in first a little bit about how you get started. You're in the industry just as long as me, almost 20 years, just over 20 years, you know, a tech in the field, became a trainer became a teacher and then now running your own business, AC service tech for about nine years.
• 0:09
  Why don't we dive into a little bit about that before we get into the deep stuff? Sure.
• 0:10
  Craig: Yeah, I, I didn't go to school for HVAC. I, I found a local company got to work with them. It wasn't a good fit. And then I found another company and I started growing leaps and bounds, right? Cause they wanted to invest in me and I was working hard, you know, trying to make their money.
• 0:11
  And so I grew from there. And when he sold the company I ended up leaving, starting my own HVAC company and actually half carpentry, half HVAC at that time. Cause Most of the members of my family were carpenters, and my grandfather was an architect, and so I started doing that. And we live in a shore town, so our population grows like 10, 20 times as much, you know, during the summertime.
• 0:12
  So there's a lot of work to be had. And so we're over here in New Jersey, and Yeah, there's a lot of work that you can do. And so I grew a lot, you know, as a business owner, I probably started too early as a, as a contracting business owner. But I was able to rely on the knowledge of the former owner of that company that I worked for.
• 0:13
  So, and also my My uncle, my grandfather and things like that. So I kind of grew from there and then I started thinking, what do I want at the end of the day? Do I want a good job and my relationship with the customer and relationship with the people that supply house, you know, or do I want to invest in people more?
• 0:14
  And I thought, you know what? I, that's what I want to do. I started. You know, working with the youth group kids at our church, and I also after we had our first child, my daughter, Micah, I ended up going and working at a company over in Vineland, a school, and I got to do some job shadow stuff with some of the students there.
• 0:15
  I really enjoyed that. And I thought, you know, I like teaching my helpers when I worked for the company. I like working and investing in, in like youth group kids. And so like I want to teach. And so I started teaching at night at the local technical high school. I've had, I kept my company during this whole time.
• 0:16
  And I just kept my good clients, my good HVAC clients that really took You know, they were just please don't please don't leave. You know, like it's that relationship kind of thing And so I started teaching at night building maintenance And when a position opened up during the daytime for hvac I applied I got in there's a lot more to this story But I did get in there and I realized quickly because I didn't go to school I was like, oh no, I don't want to pass on things that are Maybe bad practices or something like that.
• 0:17
  So I started staying there after school and at night doing tests and all kinds of things to make sure that what I was saying was actually true.
• 0:18
  Trevor: That's great because that's, that's how, like, and I tell all my students and all the people that are coming into the community is like, you got to continue to learn.
• 0:19
  And as a lot of people say, well, when you're a lot of the teachers, they don't know how to do it. That's why they go and teach it. That's the total opposite because when I started teaching, I had to go learn more. Am I tell, am I teaching my students correctly? So I have to go learn more. I have to dive deeper, man.
• 0:20
  I was saying that wrong. And even yesterday I was in a design training CO2 advanced design training, and one of the bits or manuals changed over the last year. Didn't know there, I didn't see anything come out of it. And the way I was teaching, they just changed the wording in their manual. So now I have to go back and learn the stuff.
• 0:21
  So I don't give the wrong information. And that as. Educators and as people who care just like you, cause you really care. We want to find the right answer. And, and, you know, there's lots of different answers, which we're going to talk about in refrigeration, but they're just better answers than others sometimes.
• 0:22
  Craig: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I definitely wanted to make sure that I wasn't passing on something that was not right But so at the school I I was teaching during the daytime teaching night time I still have my company doing service calls doing change outs on the weekends Some of those were like 12 hours sometimes 16 hour jobs because inevitably it's like they're Problems with the duck work problems with this problem with that.
• 0:23
  It's not just an easy quick little four or six hour change out and so then about Three four years after starting to teach, at the school I was also starting to make the youtube videos And so I was then making videos and started writing a book and I ended up getting mono from doing too many different things And ended up basically bowing out of the school, you know putting my resignation in and then Kind of taking a year and trying to finish You That book.
• 0:24
  I keep doing the videos and kind of healing and then started AC Service Tech and have been really pushing on the online education and putting the books out and the training videos and just trying to do what I can. That's it. AC Service Tech, we're trying. That's it.
• 0:25
  Trevor: No, no. And I like that. So let's talk a little bit about that too, is like, how did you get into making your first video?
• 0:26
  Cause I have a lot of people asking me, well, how are you doing this, Trevor? How are you making these videos? Like they're, they're, they're so good. And now I looked at your old ones and new ones, and I seen the evolution. How did you get involved in like that first YouTube video? And get started to do that.
• 0:27
  Cause you have. Like I said, a half a million subscribers now. And once again, go subscribe and check out some of these great reviews. I even use some of them in my trainings. You know what I mean? Cause they're that good. People need to hear something seven to 11 times from different people. So even though they come to my training, I send them to yours and to Brian ors and to tie and, and to people who create great content, but how did you get started in making videos?
• 0:28
  Craig: So I had no idea what I was doing. I was not a technological person, had a flip phone, and a buddy of mine had a fracking website and was like, man, I wish I knew construction because man, I would really get into doing YouTube videos and it's just, you can help a lot of people out, you get a lot of traction, all that type of stuff.
• 0:29
  And I was like, oh, that's kind of, that's kind of cool. That's kind of different. And then I started thinking, well, maybe I could, I could make videos and they could be even my substitute lessons for during the daytime for the students. Cause inevitably I'd get sick from just being around the students and sicknesses in a public school.
• 0:30
  Yeah. I would get sick like three times a year. I couldn't help it, you know just for like a day, you know? So during those times I was like, and I, maybe I could do a substitute lesson. So I, I, I got myself a Logitech camera, hooked it into my, my laptop. And I just recorded myself cutting open a section of gutter downspout.
• 0:31
  Just as a first video because that's just all I had I had some tin snips and I showed him Hey how to cut this thing every day we get like maybe 100 views from that video still that first very first video that I didn't edit or anything and I just did it right through And people are still using it.
• 0:32
  It's pretty pretty funny but over time, you know, you're stepping up the video quality. That's the only h non hvac related video I have but then everything else was hvac related doing thermostats and all kinds of stuff from there You and started stepping up from the, the video quality to the audio quality and there's probably been an evolution of like 16 different, you know, devices over the time because the problem is people don't see what you see when you're actually working in the field, like visually, so you have to like make that happen with cameras and audio and everything like that.
• 0:33
  It's crazy.
• 0:34
  Trevor: I know all about it. I just did on Friday, a course content, a creation course of teaching people how to create content for their, for their company. And the big thing is I was, when I was preparing for this, this course, I was looking at all the gear ahead and the table. I'm like, wow, I came a long way because it was just.
• 0:35
  The cell phone, you know what I mean? For, for me at first, it was the same with you. I had the computer with not a Logitech camera, just the built in camera. And then I went to, and then I got an iPhone and then I started doing it on the iPhone, but now it's like different camera angles, multiple camera angles, different software, so many softwares.
• 0:36
  Like, you know, there's so many softwares, hardware, sound. And the first thing I tell everyone, even in that it's to start, you know, just like we're talking here, we're on video right now, so we see each other, but it's just to start to make that first video, just like you did. And then over time you can get, it'll get better and better and you'll get different ideas.
• 0:37
  And that's why you have such a huge following because you evolved and you continue to evolve, which I, which I really, really love because you're persistent and consistent. It. You know, you don't get, you're not giving up. You keep making videos and, and that's what I love. And especially since we met, I continue to see the evolution, the books coming out, the effort you're putting in because you care and that comes back.
• 0:38
  I really believe to that, that training side of you, the, you care to help others, which I really love.
• 0:39
  Craig: Yeah. A lot of teachers feel like they're. Either not worthy or not able and they feel like maybe they don't have all the tools like, you know, in their tool, their mental tool belt or whatever, you know, or even physically in a classroom.
• 0:40
  And I keep reminding anybody that likes to teach or likes to invest in people, that is your biggest weapon, if you want to call it, you know, like it's your, your biggest thing that you have is that you care. And if you care, You will take care of anything that's in the way between you and that student in order to deliver that information.
• 0:41
  You will make it happen. It will happen and it's just a matter of, of that. So there's a lot of people that care. So we're looking we're looking pretty good. And I, I always appreciate, you know, how you communicate. It's very easy to understand. And I was talking to some people at the symposium, you know, we get, we see each other a few times a year.
• 0:42
  You know, in person and and somebody, I didn't share this with you before, but, you know, he was just letting me know that you were really inspiring to him, you know, besides the actual content that you were teaching. So, you know, there's a level of encouragement that you're like dosing out to people as you're teaching and that is making a big impact on the industry.
• 0:43
  So that's really cool, man.
• 0:44
  Trevor: Yeah, no, no, I appreciate that. And same with you. And I think this is it. Like we, we want to help others and we care and bringing value. People start to see that. And what I want is I want other people to share this stuff. So I do a lot of trainings as well with. Technicians and lead lead techs.
• 0:45
  And they're like, well, how do I get started? I want to help, but I don't really know how, what are some of, some of those other advice, advice pieces you give them. If someone comes up like, or a teacher could be a technician and says like, Craig, like, I want to get started. I really want to share and bring value to others.
• 0:46
  I really care, but I don't know where to start. Do you have a few pieces of advice?
• 0:47
  Craig: So some of the things that I would suggest that you do is. You know, we always joke with technicians, right? Like, Hey, read the manual. So that's, that's the big thing. So any equipment that you have in a room, read the manual, same thing with the code books.
• 0:48
  So your students, a 15 year old kid with learning disabilities is not going to be reading some big fat book and small little. Words with no procedures, no images. It's not going to happen, right? And you need to be able to instill them things that are going to make them employable Which are skills and knowledge and the knowledge is going to follow the skills and allow them to grow rapidly once they're hired but I would suggest that you read code books you read different things and you're going to watch videos and you're going to think how can I simplify this practice practice practice?
• 0:49
  Even when the students aren't there Because you're going to develop these little training boards and different things that you realize are helpful and it's going to come over time. And so you just need to specialize in the things that you know are best. And as well, other people are going to try to tell you, you know, how to teach her what's best, but you almost have to hold your ground because like, even in your local area, you know, what makes people employable.
• 0:50
  So focus in on those skills and don't worry about the rest, you know, that the rest will come. You know, just start, like you said.
• 0:51
  Trevor: Yeah, no, and I love that. And I think that's the thing. Honestly, I'm a better technician now that I've been training. I've been going out to the field. I've been doing startups with people.
• 0:52
  Me, not actually on the tools. But I know so much now because I dove a little deeper. Like codes is one of the things I was not, I knew about some of them, regulations, all this stuff. Now I dive into that stuff and I am well versed in the conversations I can have with people, the do's and the don'ts. And it's going to be different around the world.
• 0:53
  Wherever you're listening to this, you're going to have different authorities, regulations, and things like that. But it's us as educators to really help. Share that knowledge and pass it down. So they can be successful and and once again Just get get that start make that first video and it could be as easy as you do you did you did downspout It could be easy as showing someone at your company how to take superheat and just use your iphone You know what I mean?
• 0:54
  Here's my gauge. Here's my temperature probe. This is what I'm looking for. And why am I looking for the coils? Clean the airflow is good and all that stuff. So, so really, really, really cool. I think we should just dive into it. I I'd love to, to find out a little bit more. I. I did some residential work.
• 0:55
  Actually, last week I installed my air conditioner in my house because I had a renovation. I had a leaking foundation so I had to dig up the side of my house and I had to cut out my, my A. C. so I cut it out and then last week it was a heat wave here so I'm like, my poor family was really warm so I had to install it and it's been a while since I actually did do an install, but I got the torch out, I got the vac pump, I got the nitrogen and I crushed it.
• 0:56
  Like I'm like, oh man, I, I did better than I did probably 15 years ago because all of the stuff on the theory side, the videos I watched and just going through it in my head, I've done this before. How did it, my first well wasn't as good, but my second, third and fourth well nailed it. You know, but I wasn't really did a lot of residential stuff.
• 0:57
  I worked on my furnace and when anytime I needed to change a blower or if any, I got an alert, like the rollout switch was tripping and I even installed a few in my house, but I wasn't really on the service side or the install side. And I'd love today to talk about that. Some of the differences, because I was, I did that in a commercial refrigeration and I would love to hear if I'm a technician, I'm doing residential work or like commercial, where do I start?
• 0:58
  Start a service call.
• 0:59
  Craig: So you're going in to try to fix somebody's problem. You really need to first listen to the customer and see what the problems are. They are living in that, the building, you know, all the time, or if it's their work, they know the nuances of that system. And so they can give you a lot of keys to solving that problem.
• 1:00
  And you're going to be able to do it. You know, when you have a big company, you don't get to talk to the customer, maybe until you get to the job site. But if you're a smaller company, you do often talk to the customer and you ask him a couple of leading questions, you know, and, and so you, you know, you ask them about the power and the filter and what the tends to happen, what the problem is.
• 1:01
  And honestly, by the way, By the time you get to the job site, you may have either solved, solved the problem, or you already know the first four or five steps that you're going to take right when you get there after giving them a little bit of attention, right? So you're always investing in your customer.
• 1:02
  So go there, find out what the tendencies of the system are. You know, whether it's just not turning on in general or say, if it's an air conditioner, not cooling, you know, accurately or or taking a longer time to bring down the temperature on. Then after that, you're going to see if if the system has any issues like it, the quills frozen.
• 1:03
  If that's the case, then you're gonna need to thaw that coil. But On an air conditioner, you can actually still measure the subcoin to kind of give you an idea of what's going on. If the subcoin is really low, even when the coil is frozen, then you know, hey, that coil is frozen because there's just a lack of refrigerant in there.
• 1:04
  But if the subcoin is high, well, maybe it's a liquid line restriction or low airflow. But airflow before charging ABC, you know, once that coil is unfrozen, you need to measure the airflow first.
• 1:05
  Trevor: And you know what, what you just said there is no different than in commercial refrigeration. You got to go and talk to the customer.
• 1:06
  And a lot of people are like, well, the manager knows nothing about the store. They just call and they got an alarm on the system on the system, you know, a system alarm. The thing is though, is you've got to dive a little bit deeper, go to that department and talk to the head of the department. They know what's going on with their cases.
• 1:07
  Because they're there day in and day out. Maybe that store manager doesn't, but it's the same thing. Ask some key questions. How long has this been happening? Have you noticed a change in the product temperature? Have you been checking it? You know, it's the exact same thing. Getting that initial investigation is going to help you.
• 1:08
  Get a closer idea of what the problem is.
• 1:09
  Craig: There's nothing more frustrating for, say, your customer than for you searching for a problem where there is no problem. And, and so they want to, they want to make sure the, the main issue is fixed first before you go and do any adjustments on anything else. And so, obviously if you open up a fridge, you know, over, you know, at a commercial site and you see they're blocking all the air flow with just trays of food and things like that, Hey, you know, you know, mainly what the problem is, the airflow is not getting down, you know, it's not circulating and you know, your, your coils freezing.
• 1:10
  But in other instances, you know, you really need to ask the customer what the, what the tendency of the system is so that you can really target in and solve that problem first.
• 1:11
  Trevor: Yeah, and I think that's a big key too because I've I've done it before where they're like Oh work on this unit. I get up to the unit I start put my mirror on all of a sudden it turns on you know what I mean?
• 1:12
  It's not even the right unit that this does happen because I talk to the wrong person. So going in there why eyes wide open and Investigating first. And this is what we are. We are detectives. It doesn't matter what side of the industry are in service. We're going out to find some key information to take some different temperatures and pressures and airflow, which I love that you said that because airflow is so important in all aspects.
• 1:13
  It doesn't matter. This is refrigeration. Refrigeration doesn't change from residential to industrial. We're moving heat around a system to, for a purpose. To cool something or heat something so it's very very important
• 1:14
  Craig: Yeah, and so for residential we've got some new solutions out for checking airflow Like there's that tec true flow grid you can put in the filter return air grill or in the in the filter cabinet You know, you could use a hot wire anemometer, but you got to drill some holes first in the duct, and you got to know where to drill them at, and then you're going to have to have duct plugs to put them in there.
• 1:15
  So like, you need to know how to measure airflow. You can just measure static pressures. So your total external static pressure across the unit. And you want to compare that to the manufacturer's literature. So if it's a furnace, you know, it's going to include certain things, you know, whereas the air air handler, it may not.
• 1:16
  So it has to do with the filter. You have to read the manual. So, In order to know if the filter should be included or should not be included in that total, in that total external static pressure to compare it to the to the manufacturer's literature, like what tested the manufacturer do. And so you really need to determine those things.
• 1:17
  There's other ways as well, like the rotating vane anemometer, but the problem is you need to have like a K factor for the registers. If you're, if you're doing that, a lot of people are just measuring them at the registers and thinking, Hey, I've got my airflow. You know, because it's changing, right.
• 1:18
  Cause the grill. Is making it a smaller area for the airflow to go through, which is increasing the velocity.
• 1:19
  Trevor: Yeah. And I love that point because actually here at my house, it's from the sixties, we got duct work in the duct works bed. So I have high total static pressure, unless I change the duct work, I'm not going to, I'm going to drop that.
• 1:20
  So that is harder on my equipment. I understand it. That's okay with me though, but there are certain cases that it's not okay. Cause you got. Upstairs that in the middle of the summer, it's burning hot. And in the middle of the winter, it's freezing cold. And it's just one room. When you come across it as a service technician, what are some of the things you would look for in the, in, in that side?
• 1:21
  Because I hear it all the time. I got this one room in my house that it's always the worst room. Do you have any thoughts on that?
• 1:22
  Craig: So I often address that for during like a change out, not during, but before, right? So I'm giving a customer a quote when we're changing a system out or doing work, you know, and I usually ask them, are you comfortable, you know, or is there any problems in your, in your building?
• 1:23
  Because then we need to add that to the quote, you know, you don't want to do that. Like at the end, after, after the fact, you know, after they pay a bunch of money that, you know, you want to put it as a package because at the end of you doing that change out, you want that customer happy with the job, not still questioning something, not still not comfortable, you know, so you need to address that beforehand.
• 1:24
  And so in reference to. Maybe a room not getting enough air. You're, you're just determining that ahead of time and thinking, Hey, I'm going to be taking a tap directly off of the supply plenum, like right at the unit. And maybe it's an oversized run and then you're gonna reduce in size right where, Maybe in the attic before you get to that supply register so that you have the proper velocity.
• 1:25
  And so, you know, the main trunk duct, what I find oftentimes is that is undersized by like 30%, like over towards the end, and there's just not enough airflow to support the far room. So you really have to take it oversized tap right off of the supply plant and right after the evaporator coil. In order to, you know, on a furnace and air conditioning system, or if it's an air handler, just right off the supply plan, I'm in order to get the correct velocity into that room.
• 1:26
  So you're delivering the correct amount of air exchanges. And then, you know, you also have your issues with returns as well. You could have a central return. You could have the room returns. You could have jumper ducks going from the room into the hallway. So there's a bunch of different setups.
• 1:27
  Trevor: Yeah.
• 1:28
  And what's good, good of what you said there is that giving them the option as well. Because sometimes there's a lot, you got to cut out some drywall, there's a lot of work, but as that service technician coming in to investigate, you got to look at a full view of it. Because at the end of the day, customers say, I don't want to go with that, but they are, you're clear with them to understand this room is not going to change.
• 1:29
  I can put this brand new unit in and we're going to, you know, it's going to work great and it's going to cool you, but that room is still going to be the same and get them to understand it. That is the same as in commercial refrigeration. You got to give options for your customer. Like they want to move a case here.
• 1:30
  Well, if we move the case here, it's going to change the piping here. We may have to add this, this, and this, or I want to add this walk in box to my store. We, we got to space, we want to add another eight by eight, but that adds so much more load to your rack that you may have to add a satellite compressor or something.
• 1:31
  So as a, as a service technician, you want to give them multiple options. And I think that was really good that you pointed that out because at the end of the day, You want the customer to be happy, but it also is their decision. You can give them your best advice. And this is how you learn as well as a service technician, I believe.
• 1:32
  Craig: Yeah, how to, how to make somebody more comfortable. It's almost like a guarantee of comfortability. And in, in the world of commercial refrigeration, it's the product, right? You know, so you're, you're, you're. Less downtime, you know, with a product, less product failing or going bad, you know, and so you want to have your solutions ready, building up a rapport with your customer.
• 1:33
  I mean, it's a big deal, the dollar value of the product that they have in a commercial building. They're going to want to trust, you know, the commercial technicians and have them, you know, have the retainer or have a preventative maintenance agreement or whatever. And so it's all about the relationship building.
• 1:34
  But you know, you, you can split your service into several, several things, right? Electrical, The airflow and the refrigerant. And if you have in the residential like commercial side, you also have your combustion as well for your gas furnaces. So it's like, it's just knowing which avenue to target down first.
• 1:35
  And if you're going to go doing something with the refrigerant charge, you always have to measure your airflow first. Whereas with an electrical problem and you're hearing what the customer is saying, as far as what the problem is. You're first watching the system and just like letting it cycle through the sequence of operation and kind of seeing where the problem is, and then you're putting your meter on afterwards and kind of following the sequence of operation.
• 1:36
  Okay, where am I? Where is, where am I stopping at in the sequence? Is the problem right before that issue or right after that issue? Like, you know, what, what is making that fault occur?
• 1:37
  Trevor: There's two things that I really liked what you said there. First thing is relationships. If you want to be a great service technician, you build relationships with your customers.
• 1:38
  And that, once again, that doesn't matter what side of the business you're in. If you build a strong relationship, they're like, I want Craig to come back. I want Craig to come back again because it's that relationship building. And that's where you continue to get more work and grow. The second thing that you said there is sequence of operations.
• 1:39
  I don't believe enough technicians understand the sequence of not operation well enough. And I'm not sure if you see that same in the residential side, but in the residential side, I've read lots of manuals. They have really good, the ones I read anyway, really good direct Sequence of operation. This happens, then this should happen.
• 1:40
  Then this should happen. Then this should happen. So if you read that manual and you listen, you watch, you use your meter and you go through all the times that they say, you can find out where you just stopped it in commercial refrigeration. It is similar, but different. It's not written out like that. So when the technicians understand a sequence of operation of how this certain section works, those technicians are game changing technicians because they understand, okay, all of a sudden that's, so I didn't open.
• 1:41
  It. At this point, it should have opened at this point because we're energized here. So want to talk a little bit about more on sequence of operation and the value of it.
• 1:42
  Craig: Sure. So for instance, something it's gas furnaces. All right.
• 1:43
  Trevor: Yeah. Yeah. Let's totally fine.
• 1:44
  Craig: Yeah. So on a call for say heating on a thermostat, you're sending a 24 volt signal over to the control board on the W terminal.
• 1:45
  A lot of the circuit boards nowadays are going to handle if it's a two single stage, two stage or variable speed furnace, and so really, you only need that one W signal. Some some thermostats have, you know, two stage, and so it'll be W one W two for the second stage. But anyway, so the board gets a signal to turn on, and it's usually 24 volts signal on the W.
• 1:46
  And then what's gonna happen is even before any of that even happens, the control board is constantly checking to say, Hey, Is there a flame when there shouldn't be on the flame rods, checking flame notification constantly, checking to see if it's temperature sensors, the high limit switch, flame rollout switch, to see if any of those are tripped to make sure that they're closed so that when you do get a signal for the sequence of operation to start, then immediately what happens is the inducer motor turns on to clear the exhaust pathway and also pull in air from the intake.
• 1:47
  And then After that, that's going to prove that the that the, I'm sorry, the pressure switch is going to prove that the inducer motors running and that there's no clogs in the condensate line, say on a 90 percent efficient furnace, because they do condensate from the flame process. And so that's actually where it gets its higher efficiency out of just the water trickling through the heat exchanger.
• 1:48
  So the, some furnaces may have multiple pressure switches. So first step inducer motor turns on second step pressure switch electrically closes, proving that the inducer motors. Working. And then third is you're gonna have the hot surface igniter turned cherry red. It's gonna get powered whether it's 120 volt or 24 volt.
• 1:49
  And then number four, you're gonna have your gas valve is gonna allow gas to go through. And that's a direct ignition. If it's going right across the hot surface igniter, it's going to light. And then your fifth one is the flame rectification. And so At all times, the the furnace is sending. Well, you have 120 volts present.
• 1:50
  It may be 100 or maybe say 90 volts, 100, 120, all the way up to 180 volts. This will be somewhere around in there present on the flame rod, and the flame itself is going to be able to connect and rectify the electricity. So over on the ground frame of the furnace, you're going to have a small micro amp signal it's in direct current.
• 1:51
  And so there's going to be a dedicated ground over to the circuit board. So you're going to have The number five thing is the step is going to be that the flame is proven by the flame modification process. Number six is the blower on delay. It's going to wait for the heat exchanger to, to heat up.
• 1:52
  And then the seventh is when the blower motor ends up turning on and then pushing that heated air through the building. So there's your seven step sequence of operation for a gas furnace.
• 1:53
  Trevor: Yeah. And that's the thing, the same thing happens in refrigeration. And when I'm talking to my students and in my programs, it's like, think of just a standard five ton walk in box, you know, you got power coming into the building, you got power to that disconnect, you got power through the fuses, you got power to the contactor, all of a sudden you have a thermostat.
• 1:54
  So what happens is you start to warm up the thermostat closes and energy through that thermostat to a solenoid. That's all nine gets energized and it opens up. Then it starts to send the refrigerant through the pipe, through the liquid line, through the T TX valve, through the evaporator down the suction line, all of a sudden the pressure starts to build and all of a sudden your low pressure control closes.
• 1:55
  That sends energy to your contact there. And then it pulls in your contact, which sends the energy through the contact to start up the compressor and all, as well as the high pressure switch in there. But when you talk about the sequence of all of that, it makes, it It makes more sense. And I think when you break it down, step by step there, and there's more to it, depending on the system, but if you break it down like that and you understand at each point, what's going to happen, you're going to be able to troubleshoot a lot quicker and faster and not get down any rabbit holes because this should happen.
• 1:56
  Then this should happen. Then this should happen. When you get to more complex system and control systems, like. Supermarket racks co2 or vrv vrf system. There's a little bit more to it because you have a lot more controls have you got some experience on vrv and vrf?
• 1:57
  Craig: so some vrf but not a whole lot because i'm mainly doing the education nowadays and so it's mainly been residential like commercial like furnaces and Air to air systems, some geothermal systems did some refrigeration, mainly many splits as well here.
• 1:58
  So we did ducted non ducted stuff. So we're doing inverter driven and then also our ducted systems. So we have variable refrigerant flow on those. But not a whole lot in the. Say the residential, it's kind of more becoming prevalent now, and then we have our VRF and mini VRF like for our commercial systems, and, and you can even install those in residential buildings, at least for the, the mini VRF systems.
• 1:59
  Yeah. And so, yeah, some, some, and the problem is, here's the problem, you can specialize in just one of those things. That's right. And be busy all the time.
• 2:00
  Trevor: Yeah, I know. So, and that's the thing. So the mini splits and smaller units, we're, we're seeing an advancement, even in the residential side, we've got two stage compressors and we've got inverter driven or VFD compressors.
• 2:01
  What are your thoughts on the, the. Advancement because we, we haven't been on the tools for a while. I haven't been on the tools for a while. I've been out and I do lots of startups with people, but the technicians are actually, they're doing, I'm observing, asking questions. I understand how to do it, but I haven't been on the tools for a while, but I seen the rapid expansion.
• 2:02
  Of the technologies being with the technicians, being with the manufacturers, being with the end users and seeing the process of it, I see in the residential. And I've been seeing it since I worked at Copeland work with the AC teams as the two stage came out and more of the smaller invertible inverter, as well as variable speed to the commercial the residential market.
• 2:03
  What are your thoughts on those technologies for service technicians now, going from, you know, those standard combustion, standard AC units, you know, you got the Y1, that's it, you know, turns and pulls the contactor in, you run, like my keep right unit out back, it's still, it's a 30 year old unit, but it runs perfectly, you know, you know what I mean?
• 2:04
  What are your thoughts on that? Technology advancement for these technicians.
• 2:05
  Craig: So you have a lot of technicians retiring, you have a labor gap. So we're, we're losing more technicians than we are getting in those technicians that are, are coming in. As long as they get into the right company, they are making a lot more money.
• 2:06
  They're more valuable. And you have more choices of which direction you want to go because you can specialize. You actually, you actually need to specialize in some of this stuff instead of just doing a lot of everything. Nowadays, where back in the day it was, you could do a lot of everything. You could have your parts in the truck.
• 2:07
  You could get just about anything going. And nowadays it's all about troubleshooting and ordering direct OEM equipment or OEM parts in order to fix these systems. Because anything that's variable speed or whatever you typically you're going to need the OEM parts, except for nowadays with the, say the residential and like commercial, some of these, like the X 13 motors, they like ECM constant torques.
• 2:08
  You know, you have rescue ones of those. You can have rescue ones of the, the regular variable speed, like the 3. 0, the gen tech 3. 0 and things like that are the 2. 3. But those are more like. Across all brands, but once you get into the more specialized components and just for instance, like a variable speed inducer motor for a specific unit, you have to get that from the factory, you know, and so, or the distributor.
• 2:09
  And so that could be an 800 part. You absolutely need to know how to To troubleshoot that and so you have to read the manufacturer's literature because there's specific direct current voltage signals that are occurring and sometimes they put like a reference AC signal there that you can test to see, you know, if it's, if it's good or if it's bad, like if it's being recognized because you have one board talking to another board and so in the commercial side, you might be able to hook a laptop up.
• 2:10
  Well, in the residential side, the problem is a lot of times we don't have any type of harness or any type of thing that we're going to be Like being able to know the kind of decisions that the circuit board is making during operation. And so the problem here is that some technicians like are treating an inverter driven system or a variable speed system as if it's a single, single speed unit.
• 2:11
  And it's, it's just not So that's, that's the problem.
• 2:12
  Trevor: Yeah. And I see that even in the refrigeration industry too, as, as we see more drives, more technology, more advancement in electronics, this is, this is my world. Now, this is what I'm dealing with. Electronics, everything controls everything and to mix and match.
• 2:13
  Manufacturers is really difficult because the manufacturer building equipment have a pool of different manufacturers, control manufacturers. And once again, a lot of the system comes down to price, you know what I mean? And then there's mix and match. And then me as a service technician, I need to know five or six brands.
• 2:14
  So to specialize it, it can be intimidating, but those that do, do really well. You know, when they really dive in deep, and I think this is like anything, like you said, read the manual, if more of us, and I wish I did this more in my, my apprenticeship days were just diving in so deep that it made me sick.
• 2:15
  You know what I mean? Of just understanding this specific controller so deep, but I, in my early days, I knew a lot about, I knew a little about a lot. You know, so, and I, and nowadays is that when I need to teach something, I dive in deep, I go out into the field and see it. I work with the experts from around the world.
• 2:16
  So I understand it. So when I talk to anyone that I am correct with what I say, or I go out and be able to find that information for a question that I can't answer, because there's a lot of times I say, I don't know the answer to that. Let me look it up for you.
• 2:17
  Craig: Yeah. And that's the thing. People come up and ask me questions or something.
• 2:18
  And they expect that I'll have this like. Just encyclopedia of knowledge. I'll just be able to answer them right away And a lot of times I can't and I have to like look it up It bothers me that I don't know the answer So like I have to like look it up and i'll say I have to get back to you on that I'm gonna have to talk to my buddy, you know somebody over at hvec school.
• 2:19
  There's a bunch of them Roman and brian everybody over there burt and so there's tons of people that you can reach out to tie yourself and so I I learn from everybody and people think that You know, you just go around and you know all this stuff and the opposite side of that is Like even for us when we're doing the inverter mini split book You know I thought I was going to be able to get more data from the manufacturers than what I was actually able to get and so I had to do a ton of Research and testing on my own.
• 2:20
  We had to buy like all the different manufacturers units To test them and do all these do all these things and we had to go to the scrap yard and find all the old stuff Everything that you could possibly find to know You know Like, am I missing something? Am I missing anything? Like, is there an odd fan motor that I'm not aware of that I need to be teaching here just to make sure that That everything is covered for the technicians that are that are out there servicing everything And so it's like, you know when we're we're creating this educational content We want we're trying to be semi generic, you know with like so that it the training works across all brands so that it's it's easily digestible and applicable You know, and sometimes we're stuck that we have to go with a manufacturer specific because that's how the system works, you know, and then the system works differently.
• 2:21
  And so it's interesting for sure.
• 2:22
  Trevor: But that's why you're so good, you know, cause you dove in deeper. And if more technicians do that out there, all of you that are listening, dive in a little bit deeper today on whatever you're working on and try to find, cause there's a lot of. In all sides of refrigeration industry and HVAC industry, things are getting fixed and people don't know why.
• 2:23
  You're not saying you're not fixing it, but sometimes it's taking you longer to troubleshoot, you get it up and running, but you don't know why. Actually, there's a reason why you fix it. You gotta figure out why that fix it, and was that actually the real cause? Because when you start to do that, just like Craig talked about his book and I highly recommend go get it.
• 2:24
  Is that when you dive in deep like that, like he did, he knows all aspects of that machine will things come up that he may have not have seen for sure, because new technology comes out, things change over time, but spending the time and doing your own research, asking lots and lots of different people will get you closer to the answer.
• 2:25
  And then hopefully you figure it out. Yourself and that light bulb goes off and I love that when the light bulb goes off for my students man I was out there this week and usually I would have made a phone call to my lead tech or my buddy or my service manager But I I dove in a little deeper and you know what I just I found it Just because I decided not to make that phone call and I dove in a little bit deeper What are your thoughts on that for technicians?
• 2:26
  Out there Troubleshooting, and want to make that phone call
• 2:27
  Craig: You know what? Our, our highest view count day is for our YouTube videos is, is on Mondays. And the reason is because those technicians that weren't able to solve a problem that frustrated them, they're going home literally and looking up the answers.
• 2:28
  That seems to be, like, what's happening. I, I, I agree that if you have a crutch, you're not gonna learn. And so like if you're a teacher, you know somebody that has people calling you constantly You need to guide them but not give them the answers and so The only way that you really tend to learn is when you struggle through it And so like there's different people learn in different ways some by watching some by reading And everybody by doing and so the thing is it's like you want to mix of all that type of stuff and high talks about this all the time in the classrooms that he never gives them as a teacher not giving them the answer right you make some struggle through it where he'll pose a question right at the end of the class and then he'll say hey let's let's see who comes back with the best answer it's like a challenge right so the students have to like they're going home and it's Bothering them and so they're looking it up on their own time.
• 2:29
  It's almost like a trick to learn And so we constantly do that also with the videos too It's like you're you're kind of like you're you're maybe titling it with one thing and you are giving them the answer for that But you're giving them a bunch more knowledge in the middle and getting to that point of how to fix it But you're you're trying to get them to learn in the middle of all of it as well And so like, like he does a fantastic job of that type of stuff.
• 2:30
  It's so, it's so cool to watch him teach.
• 2:31
  Trevor: Yeah, no. And I love that. And I'm not saying take six hours before you make a phone call. Do not do that. But if you go through all the steps, you check all the air flows, the super heat, the sub cool, the volts, the amps, the temperatures all across your system, and it takes, should take you, you know, a half an hour, 45 minutes, and you can't figure it out.
• 2:32
  Okay. Make that phone call. Don't wake six hours because that's a problem too. What are you doing for that six hours? But if you, you, if you do all your checks and have a checklist, doesn't matter if you're a residential, like commercial industrial, you should have a checklist and the best technicians have a tech checklist in breaded, embedded in their brain now because they've checked it so many times, they know all the steps just because they, you don't see them writing it down as a new apprentice or something, they have it in their head.
• 2:33
  So as an apprentice, I highly recommend have a good checklist, make sure you're covering all points. Okay. Then make that phone call. Don't be calling on your way to the site saying, Oh, I'm on my way to the house to do a service call or to the store. And then all of a sudden nobody's going to want to help you then, but spend the time, dive into it.
• 2:34
  Don't, don't call at the end of the day, say, Oh, I couldn't figure it out. And you didn't do too much. So, but I like what you said there, challenge them. And that's what we do in our programs as well. And that's what I love about your videos. You got to make them think because it takes seven to 11 times before you really remember something.
• 2:35
  Craig: Yeah, so it's I used to teach in the classroom used to almost bother me that somebody else would come in and say the same thing and they're Like aha, you know the light bulb goes off but I was very happy for the students because then i'm like, okay Now it's finally stuck in their brain. Like you had mentioned the aha moments are the things that are very encouraging To me, I know they're encouraging to you.
• 2:36
  You have that heart of a teacher and that encourager and also your gift. Like you're actually, it's like, it's funny watching you because it's like, you're giving them a bunch of nuggets and you and your mind know they're building blocks to get to this point and you're building all of this things, you know, into your, your presentations.
• 2:37
  And so like, that's, that's really cool. You know what I mean? So The matter of fact is that a student needs to struggle through a little bit, you know, in order to memorize that. And so, you know, if you're a technician in the field, like, I like what you said, give yourself a half an hour, 45 minutes. If you are stuck at that point, then call and you cannot just stay there and not talk to anybody.
• 2:38
  And that goes for everybody. Like even, Even here, you know, I, I encourage people to like, Hey, try to figure it out on your own first, but you know, you don't want to spend a crazy amount of time. Then come get me. And, you know, we can kind of figure it out.
• 2:39
  Trevor: Yeah, no, I love that. This has been an awesome, conversation craig and I know we're going to do this more and more how can people get a hold of you get a hold of your organization?
• 2:40
  Get a hold of the book all this stuff's going to be in the description as well But i'd love the you to share that with my audience
• 2:41
  Craig: Sure. Yeah, that's a privilege brother. So it's info at acservicetech. com and that's our email and our books are available over at acservicetech. com and you can get them in the store, but you can read more about them in the individual sections, the AC book section and the mini split section.
• 2:42
  And we have a thousand question workbook for the refrigerant charging and 1300 questions for the mini split book with the answer key there. And you can, it's not. You know, you can remove the answer key. You know, you can give it to your, your apprentice, let them try to figure it out and you'll know whether they're trying to look at an answer key or not.
• 2:43
  They'll figure it out, you know? And so you're applying your knowledge, right? And we have quick reference cards. So anyway, those are available at AC service tech and also on Amazon. You can go to you can just search my name on Amazon, Craig Migliaccio or AC service tech. And you can find us on, on YouTube and other social media platforms.
• 2:44
  Trevor: I love it. Well, thank you so much for your time and get to this, go check this out, go check out his YouTube channel, subscribe to it, check out all the cool content he has and go through it. Cause I know in our industry and refrigeration, we deal with a lot of three phase application and you do a great job talking about single phase that we deal with all the time.
• 2:45
  We're working on these big machines, but there's sometimes we're going to go to that. Pop cooler, or we got to work on that, that glass door single phase unit. So there's differences and you do a great job on that. I really appreciate your time, Craig, and look forward to chatting with you again.
• 2:46
  Craig: Thank you so much, Trevor.