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Beek on being an ARTIST · Beek on being

• 0:00
  Melissa Shere Beek: Hi. I hope you are well. This podcast is a place for people to share personal and professional perspectives, talk openly and ask questions. From serious to silly to sublime, it's all about communication and connection. Always coming from a place of kindness and curiosity, we talk about shared humanity, discuss ideas, and highlight people creating a better world.
• 0:23
  We've got to keep learning, keep growing, keep being. I'm Melissa Beek, and this is Beek on being. Today's episode is Beek on being an artist. Art gets you to stop, pause, interpret, think, feel, and imagine. Art is self expression, education.
• 0:43
  It brings you joy, improves culture, challenges perspectives, preserves history. Art is a universal language. Today we have artist Nadia Karam in studio to tell us all about what it means to be an artist and why art is so very necessary and important. So please introduce yourself and tell our listeners a little bit about you.
• 1:04
  Nadia Karam: Hi, Melissa. Hi. Thank you for having me. Oh, my pleasure. I feel honored, and I'll tell you later why more than usual, I would say.
• 1:21
  So, yeah, my name is Nadia Lalawi Karam. I'm a I'm an artist. Feels good to say I'm an artist. Yeah. I'm an artist.
• 1:30
  I am from Morocco. Left Morocco when I was 17 to study art in Paris. And from there, I really never came back just to visit my family, really. Studied art in Paris, worked in the architectural field for a while in New York before taking ownership of being a full time artist. My parents were not very, let's say, encouraging to be an artist just by fear, you know.
• 2:09
  They were protective and we're like, oh, well, you know, that's your hobby. What do you really wanna do? We don't want you to starve. And So it took a while, but I ended up being where I needed to be. So, yeah.
• 2:28
  Melissa Shere Beek: I love that. I want to talk more about that ownership of coming into being an artist later. Yes. But what drove you to become an artist? Because you said you were studying architecture and other things, but what was that drive that made you say, No, I'm making that leap?
• 2:43
  Nadia Karam: Well, I think when you're a creative person and you don't get to express yourself the way you need to, I think you get to a point in your life where you start not feeling very well and you don't know why.
• 3:02
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. You're not being your authentic self.
• 3:05
  Nadia Karam: You're just there is a feeling of loss of freedom and you just don't know why you're not feeling that good, why and it's very hard to pinpoint Right. At a time. A friend of mine took me to watch this movie, What About Bernadette?
• 3:35
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. Mhmm.
• 3:38
  Nadia Karam: And I think that movie was a revelation for me. I don't know if you've seen it.
• 3:45
  Melissa Shere Beek: I've seen it.
• 3:46
  Nadia Karam: So, me, it was incredible. Eye opening because it's the story of this very talented architect who stopped creating. And we see her live in this house, and you think that the house is falling apart. And in fact, the more you watch, the more you see that every little detail is taught well taught of. And basically, she went crazy because she couldn't create.
• 4:31
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 4:32
  Nadia Karam: She couldn't express herself.
• 4:35
  Melissa Shere Beek: There was no catharsis for her in any way.
• 4:37
  Nadia Karam: Exactly. So, I always created for myself, kept it in the house. And there is a fine line between Not a fine line, but there is a big difference. You're an artist, but showing your work and being out there, it's a whole other world. Yeah.
• 5:09
  And it's very hard. First of all, it's very hard to get to the other world. Right. But it's challenging personally because what is an artist really? What makes me an artist and not someone else?
• 5:25
  Yes, I went to school, I studied art, I know how to draw, I
• 5:31
  Melissa Shere Beek: But there's a talent in that as well.
• 5:34
  Nadia Karam: There is a talent, but I think
• 5:36
  Melissa Shere Beek: More than the learned things.
• 5:39
  Nadia Karam: See, I don't think there is a talent. I think the only talent is the talent of being able to express yourself. True. It's like being a writer. It's like, so who decides that my pain yes.
• 5:56
  And this like, I'm worthy to be called an artist. So there is this always this feeling of how do you say? Imposter? Imposter syndrome.
• 6:11
  Melissa Shere Beek: You know? Like, this isn't real.
• 6:14
  Nadia Karam: Especially when you're out there. So I was fine as long as I was in my house, showing my work, creating for myself. But I have to say that being able to be represented, being able to go to fairs and meet people and connect with people that connects with your work is really priceless.
• 6:40
  Melissa Shere Beek: Truly a professional.
• 6:41
  Nadia Karam: It it's it's it's this is the the best side of of stepping out of your studio. Because I think every artist prefer staying and being in in their environment creating because that's that's what drive that's the pleasure. The being out there selling your art, there is a, I wanna say dirty connotation about Yeah,
• 7:11
  Melissa Shere Beek: because it's open to interpretation and people's views and
• 7:15
  Nadia Karam: That I'm okay with.
• 7:16
  Melissa Shere Beek: Okay.
• 7:18
  Nadia Karam: It's the monetary.
• 7:20
  Melissa Shere Beek: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
• 7:21
  Nadia Karam: Placing a value your work and trying to defend your work because now it has a market value. Right. Know, so all that side is not my favorite
• 7:37
  Melissa Shere Beek: side. Right. Yeah. Oh gosh. Now, I want to go back to your name.
• 7:42
  Yes. Because I introduced you as Nadia Karam. Yes. But you use an Wait, I think it went out for a second. Okay.
• 7:48
  But you use an anagram.
• 7:50
  Nadia Karam: I do. Can you tell us
• 7:52
  Melissa Shere Beek: what that name is and how it came about, why you use it?
• 7:55
  Nadia Karam: Yes. So, the anagram is my pseudonym, let's say, it's Aidan Maroc, which is my name backward.
• 8:03
  Melissa Shere Beek: I think it's brilliant.
• 8:04
  Nadia Karam: I think it's brilliant and it's not my idea. So, I have this amazing friend, a very close friend, advocate, really, a woman advocate, pushed me also to show my work. And he knew that I was there was a side of me that was very reserved.
• 8:28
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yes.
• 8:28
  Nadia Karam: So we talked about that and he say, why don't you work with the pseudonym?
• 8:33
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. Sure.
• 8:35
  Nadia Karam: And he came up with Aiden Marocque. Brilliant. There is the word Marocque, which is close to Marocque, which is Morocco Yeah. In Yeah. Yeah.
• 8:45
  Basically, you don't know who Aiden is. You don't know if it's a woman, a man. And we'll talk about it So, later why it's important it allowed me to be just the artist. Right. You know?
• 9:04
  Not the mother, not the friend, not the wife, not the
• 9:08
  Melissa Shere Beek: All the other labels
• 9:09
  Nadia Karam: you Nothing. No labels. Yeah. Aidan Moroc out yeah. Of there is also it has its importance because in Morocco, really it's a village.
• 9:26
  Everybody knows, everybody and families. The first question you're asked is it goes, You're the daughter of
• 9:41
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 9:41
  Nadia Karam: Who are you the daughter of? Who's your mother? Who's your dad? Who
• 9:46
  Melissa Shere Beek: Where do
• 9:46
  Nadia Karam: you You to a name. You're attached to a name. Yeah. And that in that society, you know, my friends and and My family never said anything, but my friends are very bothered We're very bothered by the yeah. They were like, we can't find you found you find you.
• 10:09
  It was it's difficult. Like, why didn't you use your name? You should be proud of your name. It has nothing to do with me not being proud of my name. It's just it's not that girl that you know.
• 10:23
  Right. You know? It's it's not. It's it's the artist. It's artist.
• 10:28
  This is my world. Then you can find me good. Then my work can find you.
• 10:34
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. Which
• 10:35
  Nadia Karam: I want
• 10:36
  Melissa Shere Beek: that Exactly. No connotation
• 10:38
  Nadia Karam: Not to whatsoever. Right.
• 10:40
  Melissa Shere Beek: I love that. I think it's brilliant.
• 10:41
  Nadia Karam: Thank you.
• 10:42
  Melissa Shere Beek: I think it's brilliant. Does the play on your name or words or language play a big role in your art?
• 10:49
  Nadia Karam: Again, just this anonymous side of
• 10:56
  Melissa Shere Beek: the anonymity it brings to
• 10:58
  Nadia Karam: Oh, yeah.
• 10:58
  Melissa Shere Beek: So, you could just create as you.
• 11:00
  Nadia Karam: As me. Right. No attachment to anything.
• 11:04
  Melissa Shere Beek: So, I know you were saying about taking ownership of being an artist and who you are, and you talked about attachment to who you are as a daughter or as a wife. Is it difficult to be a woman in the art world, though?
• 11:15
  Nadia Karam: Very.
• 11:16
  Melissa Shere Beek: Okay.
• 11:17
  Nadia Karam: Very. Can
• 11:18
  Melissa Shere Beek: you can you expand a little bit on that?
• 11:20
  Nadia Karam: Yes. Absolutely. Well, in the world of art, men are mostly represented. Like, 60% of galleries represent men. Yeah.
• 11:33
  Wow. We have It's
• 11:35
  Melissa Shere Beek: a large.
• 11:35
  Nadia Karam: 40 it is. In auction houses, the let's say I I have numbers.
• 11:44
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 11:45
  Nadia Karam: The highest work from an artist, a man artist, was sold at 440 something million dollars. Wow. The highest women artwork was sold around $44,500,000. Yeah. And and that tells you everything.
• 12:06
  Melissa Shere Beek: I was gonna say, that's shocking to me.
• 12:08
  Nadia Karam: It is. Well, that's that's the value they put on women's work versus men's work.
• 12:15
  Melissa Shere Beek: Devalued.
• 12:16
  Nadia Karam: Totally. Yeah. So, not as represented, which we need to be represented. Yeah. It's very hard for women to get representation.
• 12:26
  Melissa Shere Beek: Why is that the case, though? Especially in today's day and age.
• 12:30
  Nadia Karam: Well, we started like this. We weren't able Yeah. But
• 12:33
  Melissa Shere Beek: we haven't evolved from that.
• 12:35
  Nadia Karam: Well, it was only the nineteenth century that, let's say, we were barred from our training.
• 12:47
  Melissa Shere Beek: Couldn't study.
• 12:48
  Nadia Karam: We are represented So, roughly 40%. But, more than 70% of women graduate from art schools and Yeah. Versus men.
• 13:04
  Melissa Shere Beek: So, what happens to all those creative artists?
• 13:06
  Nadia Karam: They don't have the opportunity. They just don't.
• 13:11
  Melissa Shere Beek: That's a shame.
• 13:12
  Nadia Karam: Yeah. Because don't forget, for galleries, it's business. For fairs, for art fairs, it's business.
• 13:22
  Melissa Shere Beek: It's business.
• 13:22
  Nadia Karam: Whatever they say, it's all about business.
• 13:26
  Melissa Shere Beek: Do you find that well, this is gonna be a two part question. Do you find that because your artwork goes by the name of Aiden that it helps in the art world? And then if they meet you, not knowing who you are, and they assume the name is a man's name, and then you show up, do you get sort of backpedaling on that?
• 13:51
  Nadia Karam: No. They love it.
• 13:52
  Melissa Shere Beek: They do. They love it. Love that.
• 13:54
  Nadia Karam: Yeah. They love it. They love it because I think they love my story. Yeah. And they connect with it.
• 14:04
  Melissa Shere Beek: Okay.
• 14:05
  Nadia Karam: Because everyone can relate. Even if we all have different stories
• 14:09
  Melissa Shere Beek: Sure.
• 14:11
  Nadia Karam: We all can relate to each other.
• 14:12
  Melissa Shere Beek: So tell me more about your story.
• 14:14
  Nadia Karam: My story. So I'm kind of I'm the outcast, let's say. Never came back to my country, even if I'm very, very much attached and proud to be African and proud to be Moroccan, and I go very often. But I married outside my culture, I married outside my religion, I traveled a lot. I'm just not the typical Right.
• 14:54
  Melissa Shere Beek: You're your own individual.
• 14:55
  Nadia Karam: I am my own individual and I'm very proud. And I don't think it was difficult because I knew exactly what I didn't want.
• 15:07
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 15:09
  Nadia Karam: And just starting with this was enough for me to be adventurous.
• 15:15
  Melissa Shere Beek: Kudos to you.
• 15:17
  Nadia Karam: I knew what I didn't want. Didn't know what I wanted because who But
• 15:22
  Melissa Shere Beek: But you know what you didn't.
• 15:24
  Nadia Karam: I did. And I didn't want that life.
• 15:27
  Melissa Shere Beek: Okay. Good for you. It takes amazing strength to do that. Not everybody has the power or the ability or the will or the courage to do that.
• 15:37
  Nadia Karam: Yeah. I I You know, I don't think you think about this when you're young. You just have dreams Yeah. And goals.
• 15:50
  Melissa Shere Beek: You wanna pursue your passions.
• 15:51
  Nadia Karam: And you scramble and you just and that's the beauty
• 15:55
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah.
• 15:55
  Nadia Karam: Of being young and adventurous.
• 15:57
  Melissa Shere Beek: Are those some of your best memories, that time when you were scrambling and trying to make things happen?
• 16:07
  Nadia Karam: I won't say my best memories, but great memories. Yeah.
• 16:12
  Melissa Shere Beek: You look on it fondly.
• 16:14
  Nadia Karam: I do.
• 16:14
  Melissa Shere Beek: It wasn't a struggle for you in the sense that emotionally you were at the right place that you wanted to be, you knew you were going in the direction of your dreams.
• 16:24
  Nadia Karam: I didn't know where I was going, but I know I was going in the direction of my dreams, absolutely, because I was feeling free.
• 16:32
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. Well, that's it.
• 16:33
  Nadia Karam: You know? And and and that's it. My parents were very supportive. Good. My dad was supportive in the way Coming from a Muslim country, African, you know, country, where marriage is important, staying in your culture
• 17:11
  Melissa Shere Beek: Doing the societal norms are what your family or society expects of you.
• 17:15
  Nadia Karam: Yeah. My I was lucky because my dad always told me that, you know, getting married was not
• 17:25
  Melissa Shere Beek: The end goal.
• 17:26
  Nadia Karam: It was not the end goal. He said, you know, I want you to travel. I want you to work. I want you to have a career.
• 17:33
  Melissa Shere Beek: Experience life.
• 17:34
  Nadia Karam: For you to be free. Marriage is not not the end of it and it shouldn't be. And it helped me a lot. Even in my relationships, even when my relationships with men and the way I was approaching that, I was I was not I was never needy.
• 17:53
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. Yeah. Thank God.
• 17:54
  Nadia Karam: Because I I, you know, I was not at I was not going to exist through the eyes of a man.
• 18:03
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. For that lens. Yeah.
• 18:04
  Nadia Karam: For that. No. Was Yeah. Gonna be my my own self. And and he said, you just don't settle.
• 18:10
  Yeah. No. Settle. Yeah. No.
• 18:12
  And he said, you know, you wanna get married only because you meet someone that you wanna build something with.
• 18:21
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 18:22
  Nadia Karam: Not necessarily a family because, well, I never thought I would be a mother. I just didn't know.
• 18:29
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah.
• 18:30
  Nadia Karam: This is something that scared me. So I have three kids. What?
• 18:37
  Melissa Shere Beek: I hope you're not scared anymore.
• 18:38
  Nadia Karam: No. They're my life.
• 18:40
  Melissa Shere Beek: The best blessings.
• 18:41
  Nadia Karam: The best blessings. The reason Yeah. For everything. Yeah. For me.
• 18:46
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah.
• 18:48
  Nadia Karam: And it's the coolest thing.
• 18:51
  Melissa Shere Beek: It is.
• 18:51
  Nadia Karam: It's a blessing to be able to have children, raise children, keep a family together, mom, dad, the kid. This is today, it's extraordinary.
• 19:03
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. It is.
• 19:04
  Nadia Karam: Even though everything is a poker game. Yeah. You don't know. Like, you don't know what type what kind of wife you're gonna be, what kind of mother
• 19:16
  Melissa Shere Beek: kind of test you're gonna go through and what's gonna push you to the limit on things.
• 19:20
  Nadia Karam: And, you know, marriage is
• 19:24
  Melissa Shere Beek: it's It's a chance.
• 19:26
  Nadia Karam: Oh my god. It's a huge chance. And we we don't know. Yeah. We don't know.
• 19:33
  I don't know. Can can I
• 19:34
  Melissa Shere Beek: You can say a curse word right now. Oh, I say so many times on this podcast.
• 19:40
  Nadia Karam: We don't know jack shit. We just don't.
• 19:43
  Melissa Shere Beek: We don't. And
• 19:46
  Nadia Karam: we're just like full of faith and optimism, and we're trying to build this
• 19:51
  Melissa Shere Beek: life into a lot of stuff.
• 19:53
  Nadia Karam: Which is great. Yeah. It's like giving birth three times. Yeah. What?
• 19:57
  You do it once and you're like,
• 19:58
  Melissa Shere Beek: oh my god.
• 19:59
  Nadia Karam: I'm going through this ever again.
• 20:01
  Melissa Shere Beek: And not pregnant now, again.
• 20:03
  Nadia Karam: Yeah. And like, what? Yeah. The ability to forget.
• 20:06
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yes. Well, because I think the blessings that you get sort of erase that small moment in time.
• 20:14
  Nadia Karam: 100%.
• 20:15
  Melissa Shere Beek: Because what you get back from that is you can't quantify it.
• 20:20
  Nadia Karam: You can't. You can't. You can't.
• 20:22
  Melissa Shere Beek: So I want you to talk about more about the power of being a woman in the art world, especially since you gave me the numbers that it's only 40%, and that the people that you said when you show up and they're thrilled that you are a woman, even though they assumed that maybe it was a man. But tell me about that power that that holds for a woman in the art world.
• 20:40
  Nadia Karam: Well, just that. You know, just just to be there. Right. Standing there in a fair next to so I just came back from the African Art Fair one fifty four, which is the the biggest African art fair in the world. Amazing.
• 21:03
  It's amazing. And my gallery, the gallery who represents me, SOART Galleries in Morocco, Casablanca. And this year, we were four artists in the booth. So guess
• 21:20
  Melissa Shere Beek: You were the only woman.
• 21:21
  Nadia Karam: Yeah. Yeah. I was the only woman. Wow. And just to be there with these amazing artists also there, I was just I'm proud to be there.
• 21:38
  You should be. And it is important because I'm telling different stories. I'm telling stories that men
• 21:47
  Melissa Shere Beek: can't Understand. Get So tell me about those stories. I wanna know about the mediums you use. I wanna know what inspires you. I wanna know the stories that you have to tell.
• 21:57
  So
• 21:57
  Nadia Karam: Yeah. So being the outcast, rebellious that I am, She's work badass. I am. Oh, okay. I love it.
• 22:06
  You. I work love imperfection.
• 22:08
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. Oh, I love the rawness of everything. Everything agree with is that 100%.
• 22:12
  Nadia Karam: So I my canvases are raw. Fabulous. I mix mediums. Acrylic. Acrylic, paintings, drawings, writing.
• 22:26
  So this is the thing.
• 22:26
  Melissa Shere Beek: It's Like an ephemera of things.
• 22:28
  Nadia Karam: Yeah. I'm writing. I write poems. I write so my stories, women's stories, and I insert all that into Yeah. My And it's so much work.
• 22:46
  I can imagine. And it looks very messy.
• 22:50
  Melissa Shere Beek: So is life.
• 22:51
  Nadia Karam: But yeah. But if you take the time to read, everything has its own place. Right. Everything. It's like Bernadette
• 23:02
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah.
• 23:02
  Nadia Karam: In the movie.
• 23:03
  Melissa Shere Beek: That's right.
• 23:03
  Nadia Karam: You know?
• 23:04
  Melissa Shere Beek: All the details.
• 23:05
  Nadia Karam: And if you pay close attention, you will know. Nothing is easy. I don't make anything easy. You have to look for clues. You have to put things together.
• 23:15
  I love that. You you have to be interested Right. To connect really. And if you do that, you can connect. So, that's why I always have the best time in fairs.
• 23:28
  I talk to anyone that connects. Uh-huh. So, usually Is it a
• 23:36
  Melissa Shere Beek: do what? Okay.
• 23:38
  Nadia Karam: So I do so usually, it's portraits, abstract portraits
• 23:43
  Melissa Shere Beek: Okay.
• 23:43
  Nadia Karam: With a mix of mediums, paper, newspaper, photographs, paintings. And I I will have this abstract face that looks very messy, but if you can look very close, I always have those perfect drawings.
• 24:02
  Melissa Shere Beek: Drawings come No.
• 24:04
  Nadia Karam: Just to show, hey. Yeah. I'm an artist. Right? I can do because the people say, oh my god.
• 24:12
  I can do this.
• 24:13
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. Right. Like, they said that with Jackson Polly
• 24:15
  Nadia Karam: too. Like, I can do this. Well, no, you can't.
• 24:19
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. Yeah. That's why I'm the artist.
• 24:21
  Nadia Karam: So, it's always there is so I use a lot of sarcasm.
• 24:24
  Melissa Shere Beek: I love that.
• 24:25
  Nadia Karam: I a lot of sarcasm.
• 24:25
  Melissa Shere Beek: I love being cheeky.
• 24:27
  Nadia Karam: I and I have these conversation starters, which are quotes, how to. And now people know about it. So, especially in this one fifty four fair, they come looking for that wall, and there is always a wall. And someone gave me an idea. I said, you know, you should put a camera Uh-huh.
• 24:50
  To see people's face and they can connect to some and there are some very funny ones, very sarcastic, very deep.
• 24:59
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 25:01
  Nadia Karam: You know, how to be rich Right. And still die.
• 25:04
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 25:05
  Nadia Karam: How low can you hope? Yeah. And it's on and on. So this is this is your reaction. That's what I have.
• 25:12
  Melissa Shere Beek: Love it.
• 25:12
  Nadia Karam: So I sit there and I see people coming to that wall and just Oh, you definitely need to have a camera. And yeah. And well, I don't know if
• 25:20
  Melissa Shere Beek: if If allowed
• 25:21
  Nadia Karam: to film people, but I'll go deeper in that. And you have no idea how much stories I hear.
• 25:29
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah.
• 25:30
  Nadia Karam: Just people just start opening up to me.
• 25:34
  Melissa Shere Beek: I was gonna ask you about that, like, the experience you have from people's reaction from your artwork.
• 25:38
  Nadia Karam: Oh, I have so many stories. Okay. We don't have enough time. But I'll give you I'll give you a a good one that stayed sticked with me. Okay.
• 25:45
  It was at a fair in New York, and this young guy just kept on coming. He came three days in a row. And, you know, he looked like an artist. Not like an artist, like a cool dude, maybe musician, backpack, flip flops. And he kept going to that wall.
• 26:12
  And the third day, I went to him and I said, you know, every time you're here, I'm talking to other people, then you disappear. You keep on coming back. He's like, listen, those quotes, you know, they they talk to me, and they make me feel a certain way. And every time so I wanted to know every time, you know, would it be different?
• 26:40
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yes.
• 26:40
  Nadia Karam: And as I'm I come back, it's still the same feeling. And I just lost my mother. That's what he said. I just lost my mother, and I live in her house, but I can't go into her room. So, I'm thinking of buying this piece so to put it in her room so I can find the strength to go in her room and live in in Wow.
• 27:09
  In everywhere in the house. That's what my heart chills. Yeah. I met so I had, like, tears. And I was like so I we hugged.
• 27:18
  And I said, if I can do this Yeah. To someone
• 27:22
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. Move them on such a level.
• 27:24
  Nadia Karam: Help them go through, you know, losing
• 27:28
  Melissa Shere Beek: Grief and trauma.
• 27:29
  Nadia Karam: Yeah. Through I won. Yeah. It's fantastic. That's why I'm going through this, you know, the commercial side of
• 27:39
  Melissa Shere Beek: it Right.
• 27:40
  Nadia Karam: That I really don't
• 27:41
  Melissa Shere Beek: You tolerate it because
• 27:42
  Nadia Karam: It's hard. Yeah. It's hard to put yourself out there. And no, it's hard to find representation.
• 27:48
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. But also put value on something that's priceless to you.
• 27:52
  Nadia Karam: Exactly.
• 27:53
  Melissa Shere Beek: And Because it's more of an emotive experience in what it brings not just to you, but to the viewer. Correct. So the attachment that the gentleman had and how he his emotions and his strength to get him through grief and trauma, you can't put a value
• 28:11
  Nadia Karam: on that. You can't. And the day after, which was the closing day, two guys came and they wanted to meet me. And they said that they were their friend, who was that guy, sent them to see the peace he, you know, transformed him.
• 28:39
  Melissa Shere Beek: Wow.
• 28:40
  Nadia Karam: So we were talking because that was really the I had great moment during that fair, but that was
• 28:51
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yes. That was with you.
• 28:52
  Nadia Karam: Precious Yeah. Moment. It happened that he was a professional soccer player.
• 28:59
  Melissa Shere Beek: Oh, wow.
• 29:03
  Nadia Karam: And I didn't know. For me, it was just that kid who lost his mother.
• 29:10
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 29:11
  Nadia Karam: And think she raised him by herself. Wow. And we had that connection.
• 29:16
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. And that's what it's about.
• 29:18
  Nadia Karam: That's what it's about. Yeah.
• 29:19
  Melissa Shere Beek: So It's amazing.
• 29:22
  Nadia Karam: It is. And I I think that women are able to connect in a different, more maternal way.
• 29:33
  Melissa Shere Beek: I think it's an emotional quote too. I think there's a certain emotional level that either we express better, not afraid to express. I think it gets us to connect on a certain level.
• 29:47
  Nadia Karam: Yeah, totally.
• 29:49
  Melissa Shere Beek: Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt you.
• 29:50
  Nadia Karam: No, no, no. Not at all. And so we need more women. We need more women. We need to be represented.
• 30:00
  We need to be cheered on, helped. Yeah. Need to Supported. Be Yeah. And we need platforms.
• 30:10
  Melissa Shere Beek: So how did you get into this style of creativity as opposed to just using one medium, as opposed to just doing portraits? How did you get into this collaging, this sort of
• 30:25
  Nadia Karam: so, again, my rebellious side. I met with this gallerist, you know, big name that I won't name. And it was the beginning, really. And she was debating to represent me or not. And I showed her my work, and she said, you know, you have to stick to this.
• 30:55
  This is this is gonna be your style. This is gonna be you.
• 30:59
  Melissa Shere Beek: This is where you shine.
• 31:00
  Nadia Karam: This is where this is what's gonna sell, and this is this is gonna be your identity.
• 31:08
  Melissa Shere Beek: What did you
• 31:08
  Nadia Karam: think about sick to my stomach. And I'm like, okay. Thank you. Because this was very valuable.
• 31:16
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 31:17
  Nadia Karam: I'm not gonna have a style.
• 31:20
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. You're boxed in then at that point.
• 31:22
  Nadia Karam: Because I have different styles, and that is bothersome. Because in order to be marketable and to have a value on a market Right. You have to stick to a style.
• 31:39
  Melissa Shere Beek: That's identifiable in the market immediately. But then you lose your your individuality, and you you and you're limited in what you can create.
• 31:48
  Nadia Karam: And so I was lucky enough to grow to grow up in Morocco, to have friends. We're a community. We we we couldn't really go out as girls, so we would spend time in each other's home. And my closest friends, their dad was was an artist. Mhmm.
• 32:13
  Hassan Al Glawi.
• 32:15
  Melissa Shere Beek: Mhmm.
• 32:16
  Nadia Karam: And this is a whole story. For me, it's he's my favorite artist, not only because I grew up, you know, in his house and I watched him paint and but he was just extraordinary. Again, you know, his father was the Pasha of Marrakesh. He wanted to be an artist. He couldn't Winston Churchill spoke to his dad and told him, you know
• 32:47
  Melissa Shere Beek: Wow.
• 32:48
  Nadia Karam: To encourage him. Anyway, so he was able to thanks to Winston Churchill.
• 32:54
  Melissa Shere Beek: You, Winston.
• 32:55
  Nadia Karam: And he is one of the the biggest Moroccan artists, but he's known for a specific style, which is the horses and the ceremony of the king ceremony once a year where people pledge allegiance to him. So, that's the scene that he would paint over and over, and that's what would sell. Right. But I I saw what he was painting.
• 33:30
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. But his studio, it was probably something completely different.
• 33:36
  Nadia Karam: Portraits of his beautiful wife, his children, portraits. He made a portrait of of me on a piece of wood that I have.
• 33:46
  Melissa Shere Beek: I was just gonna ask you if you have it. That's incredible.
• 33:48
  Nadia Karam: I do. He painted me. He's one day, he he told me, you silly. Wear a kaftan and come. Pose for me.
• 33:58
  You know? I will give you I will give you the the the the the painting, and you'll have it just, you know and all we wanted was play and So by the I wore that paint that kaftan and you could see in the portrait, I was kind of bored. Right. And he painted this one and he painted me sitting in a garden, which was beautiful. But he sold that painting.
• 34:26
  Melissa Shere Beek: Of you in the garden?
• 34:27
  Nadia Karam: Yeah. And because he gave me one, and and of course I've been chasing that peace. That painting. Yeah. Did you ever find that?
• 34:36
  Not yet. Oh,
• 34:37
  Melissa Shere Beek: well, if anybody out there hears
• 34:39
  Nadia Karam: I know. It's a little girl wearing a yellow kaftan sitting Yes. In the
• 34:48
  Melissa Shere Beek: Oh, I have, like, fantasies now where where she exists.
• 34:51
  Nadia Karam: Yeah. And he would have he would paint this auto portraits on, cigar paper.
• 34:58
  Melissa Shere Beek: Oh, wow. So this is how you got all of the ideas to sort of make collage paintings.
• 35:04
  Nadia Karam: And and also flowers in in South Of France where his wife has a little house he would go during summertime and paint. He was much more than just horses and pledging
• 35:20
  Melissa Shere Beek: I imagine he's like those great impressionist artists at the turn of the nineties.
• 35:23
  Nadia Karam: For me, one of the greatest.
• 35:26
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah.
• 35:27
  Nadia Karam: People don't know don't know really that side of him. And those paintings don't sell as as I mean, today, I'm sure they do But, more than he gifted me for my wedding this South Of France sort of pageage with a little note. And he was very discreet and very humble.
• 35:54
  Melissa Shere Beek: You must cherish that.
• 35:55
  Nadia Karam: Yeah. I do. It's in my bedroom.
• 35:57
  Melissa Shere Beek: Wow.
• 35:57
  Nadia Karam: Yes. So, yes. And I just refuse to be in a box. Right. I won't do things because it sells better.
• 36:08
  Melissa Shere Beek: Well, I think that wouldn't satisfy your soul if you did.
• 36:11
  Nadia Karam: Yeah. Exactly. I I'm privileged because I don't need it to live, which gives me a big freedom. But also, it's harder because somehow you have to be a starving artist
• 36:28
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 36:29
  Nadia Karam: To be special. You have to have a story. And often, also that side of the art world that I don't like, you have to come up with a story.
• 36:40
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. The story You're selling yourself, not just your work.
• 36:43
  Nadia Karam: Exactly. You have to sell yourself. You I don't know how to sell myself. Right. I don't like to sell myself.
• 36:49
  Melissa Shere Beek: You're an artist.
• 36:50
  Nadia Karam: Yeah. That's all.
• 36:51
  Melissa Shere Beek: So what does your day look like? Like, what does your creative process look like?
• 36:57
  Nadia Karam: It's totally bipolar. Okay. Okay. It's totally bipolar.
• 37:04
  Melissa Shere Beek: Is it just when you're inspired and you move to something? Or do you get up every day and make a habit of getting into the studio and
• 37:11
  Nadia Karam: It depends.
• 37:12
  Melissa Shere Beek: Okay.
• 37:13
  Nadia Karam: So my priority is my family, my kids. So, when my kids are around I have two kids in college and one that is still here. So, when I'm with them or I need to be there for them, that's my priority. And then I go and there is no really, there is no rules. Exactly.
• 37:35
  In my world.
• 37:36
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 37:36
  Nadia Karam: There are no rules. I can be there seven days, ten hours per day, and I can go once every week. It depends. It depends what I'm working on. True.
• 37:52
  Starting a new series is challenging because it takes me time to get into what I want. I never know if it's gonna happen in two, three days, a week, I don't. But when it starts, oh, boy.
• 38:07
  Melissa Shere Beek: Oh, it's overflowing.
• 38:08
  Nadia Karam: That's that's Yeah. That's when I don't wanna leave.
• 38:11
  Melissa Shere Beek: You can't leave the studio.
• 38:12
  Nadia Karam: I can't leave.
• 38:12
  Melissa Shere Beek: Gotta get it all out.
• 38:13
  Nadia Karam: Yes. And unfortunately, sometimes I have to because, again, life Life. Be lifing, you know. I'm lucky I have my studio in my home.
• 38:24
  Melissa Shere Beek: Oh, that's I don't know if
• 38:25
  Nadia Karam: I'm lucky though. Because sometimes I think about I mean, when the kids were little, I would go to pick up school pick up looking like a home homeless with paint everywhere. I embarrassed my kids quite quite a lot.
• 38:40
  Melissa Shere Beek: I think you're not a great mother if you haven't embarrassed your children at least once a day. I always tell them, if I haven't done something to embarrass you once a day, then I'm not doing my job.
• 38:47
  Nadia Karam: I'm not doing my job. So, yeah. So I'll do those school runs, thank God, because my studio was in my house and and but sometimes I think that if I was secluded somewhere, nobody would bother me.
• 39:01
  Melissa Shere Beek: Never would come out.
• 39:02
  Nadia Karam: Yeah. But it's what is great is I have that. Yeah. I'm lucky to have that. Yeah.
• 39:07
  Something to look forward to. Yeah. I can go into my studio. This is my world. When I'm sad, when I'm scared, when I'm everything.
• 39:16
  I go there and I I get to create to have this cocoon.
• 39:25
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. And a catharsis too, I would think.
• 39:28
  Nadia Karam: It's my world. Yeah. Express myself. I listen to podcast. I listen to podcasts.
• 39:33
  Melissa Shere Beek: Oh,
• 39:33
  Nadia Karam: you? A lot. Yeah. I love it. I was listening to the other day to you and your mom and Oh.
• 39:39
  And your sisters. And it was such a beautiful shitshow. Yeah. It was Your mom is really special. But I wanna tell this story because this is very why I'm here today.
• 39:49
  Melissa Shere Beek: Okay. Yes.
• 39:51
  Nadia Karam: Me that is actually very reserved when it comes to talking talking about my work. So, you're Ruthie's daughter. Yeah. And I was like, okay. Of course.
• 40:03
  Do that. I was still bitching a little bit driving here. I was like, oh my god, like
• 40:08
  Melissa Shere Beek: I know. I don't like it myself.
• 40:09
  Nadia Karam: But you're Ruthi’s daughter. And if you allow me, I wanna talk about Ruthi just a little
• 40:16
  Melissa Shere Beek: Of course.
• 40:17
  Nadia Karam: How Ruthi became important in my life.
• 40:20
  Melissa Shere Beek: Okay.
• 40:21
  Nadia Karam: So, quickly, I go to this Pilates studio. Right? Very tiny. No name. When people ask me, where do you I don't Where do you go for Pilate?
• 40:35
  I'm like, it's like I'm talking about this forbidden place. It's hidden. I'm like, well, it's in South Miami. What's the name? I know.
• 40:44
  It doesn't It's have any name, but you you have to getting from an alley. Like, we always make fun of of it when we talk about it at the studio because it's it's really fun. So, then in the little studio, we have two classes going on, private and class of two, three, sometimes four, but really three, and private. And I would see this woman, badass woman. Yeah.
• 41:07
  You know, always laughing with Laurie, and and we'd just say hi, and she was very nice and nurturing, and and I don't know. I started wishing her Shabbat Shalom on Fridays. She would be, oh, Shabbat Shalom. Well, I'm from Morocco. We have, you know it's a Muslim country, but we have it's the only Muslim country where we have also Moroccan Jewish Moroccans.
• 41:35
  So I grew up with close Jewish Moroccan friends and doing Shabbat and doing all that. So there is always something comforting. And we always say, you know, in Arabic, you know, light a candle for me. Right. Right.
• 41:51
  Right. Light a candle. That was I grew up with this. So then she was so nice. I would tell her, well, light a candle.
• 41:56
  I will. Very, very, very nice woman. Fast forward 2025, I do my mammogram every year. And June 2025, I do my mammogram. They call me back.
• 42:20
  Do again. They suspect something. The radiologist came out, and she's like, Nadia, what did you do different since last year? Like, well, I started taking hormones therapy. I'm going through menopause.
• 42:33
  I was going crazy. She's like, you stop that right now, right away. We wanna do a biopsy. And from there, three months of absolute chaos and craziness, Mammograms, ultrasound, MRIs, biopsies, biopsies, biopsies under MRI. Negative, negative, negative, negative.
• 43:04
  I went to see my OBGYN that I love and I would say
• 43:11
  Melissa Shere Beek: What's wrong?
• 43:11
  Nadia Karam: What would you do if it was one of your girl? I said, you know, you should go see a surgeon oncologist because they know how to read this. And I'm like, oncologist? He's like, no. Don't be scared.
• 43:24
  They just know how to read these things.
• 43:26
  Melissa Shere Beek: Okay.
• 43:26
  Nadia Karam: So I go see a male oncologist, surgeon oncologist, gave me more things to do, MRIs, more this, more that. Negative. There was a feeling.
• 43:40
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. I was just gonna say, why do you keep pursuing a negative? You must have known in your in your soul that this wasn't right.
• 43:45
  Nadia Karam: And I was I've always been scared of the word cancer. Yeah. It's a frightening So that little Pilates studio is is our therapy session. We complain, we talk.
• 44:00
  Melissa Shere Beek: So it's And talking figure things out in these
• 44:03
  Nadia Karam: Everything. You oh, I have many stories. Yeah. I'm telling you. Not enough for today, but I have so mean, for you.
• 44:09
  I mean, I can go on and on, but so I'm in the studio and the private is going on and the sorry. And the group session. And I'm talking about so everybody's asking, you know. So well, negative, but I went to see this oncologist. You know, a friend of mine told me about this doctor, Starr Mountner, that she's a star.
• 44:38
  And I'm trying to get to see her, but it's it's more difficult than getting into the White House. They're like, yeah, we heard of her. Anyway, I go home. Fifteen minutes later, I get a phone call. Yeah.
• 45:00
  Hi. This is Ruthi. I'm sorry I asked Lori for your number. I'm here at MCI, and I have Maria in front of me, so she's gonna
• 45:14
  Melissa Shere Beek: This is my mother.
• 45:15
  Nadia Karam: This is your mother.
• 45:17
  Melissa Shere Beek: This
• 45:17
  Nadia Karam: I hope you don't know.
• 45:18
  Melissa Shere Beek: This all tracks.
• 45:19
  Nadia Karam: Maria, here. She needs an appointment. You need to do something about it. Now. Maria takes the phone and she's like, well, okay.
• 45:31
  We're gonna And they got me in a week later.
• 45:34
  Melissa Shere Beek: Oh, incredible.
• 45:35
  Nadia Karam: This woman that you know, I was just saying hi to and nothing more. Drove from the studio to Miami Cancer Institute, barged into doctor Mountner's office Mhmm. To talk to her assistant
• 45:55
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah.
• 45:56
  Nadia Karam: For me. Right. What? She didn't make a phone call.
• 45:59
  Melissa Shere Beek: No. Sorry. No. I'm crying too. She's a powerhouse.
• 46:09
  I'm just gonna say for our our listeners, she's probably not even five foot two.
• 46:15
  Nadia Karam: She's Not.
• 46:16
  Melissa Shere Beek: Her mouth is bigger than her body. If she feels that there's an injustice or someone's not getting what they need, she is going to move mountains to make it happen for them. They
• 46:28
  Nadia Karam: she doesn't even know me. So this woman drove to MCI, gets me in. A week later, I was in. Meet doctor Mountner.
• 46:37
  Melissa Shere Beek: Who's also incredible.
• 46:39
  Nadia Karam: Oh, that's another story. Beyond. I see this young blonde woman girl, like, almost little girl. I'm like,
• 46:47
  Melissa Shere Beek: oh, this is She's fabulous.
• 46:48
  Nadia Karam: Starr Mountner. Yeah. She's like, okay. I can see why you feel certain way. Let's do this.
• 46:54
  Let's do a lumpectomy
• 46:56
  Melissa Shere Beek: A lumpectomy.
• 46:57
  Nadia Karam: Lumpectomy. And let's take this out so you don't have to worry about it. Yeah. Let's do this. Ten days later, I was there.
• 47:05
  Took it out. Okay. See you in a week. The day of my appointment, she calls me and she's like, okay. This is doctor Martner.
• 47:16
  I know you're coming in an hour. I just wanna let you know that we found a tiny tumor, very tiny. So, I just want you to be ready and bring your husband. Everything is gonna be okay. Don't worry.
• 47:31
  Just I wanted to let you know I didn't want you to be surprised here. Right. This dragon slayer Yeah. Who is dealing with, you know, so many patients. Yeah.
• 47:45
  Incredible hard cases, Took the time in her day
• 47:53
  Melissa Shere Beek: To reach out to you.
• 47:54
  Nadia Karam: An hour before because she wanted me to come prepared.
• 47:56
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. I mean, she's brilliant in and of herself. She's she's just on every level, not just as a physician, but as a person.
• 48:03
  Nadia Karam: Didn't have her PA call me. Didn't have
• 48:08
  Melissa Shere Beek: her No. No.
• 48:08
  Nadia Karam: No. Herself. So, of course, my my world crumbled when there And I have many stories, but it ended up being extremely early stage one.
• 48:22
  Melissa Shere Beek: Wow.
• 48:26
  Nadia Karam: Couldn't be seen in any mammogram, ultrasound, MRI, biopsy, nothing. The oncologist told me, you were not meant to find it that because we couldn't see it.
• 48:43
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. But thank God she's
• 48:45
  Nadia Karam: She said, you know, let's remove this. And she didn't know. She removed it because it was a benign calcification. So, thank God. I, you know, do your mammograms every year.
• 49:03
  Melissa Shere Beek: Don't take no. You're active to everything.
• 49:04
  Nadia Karam: Don't take no for an answer.
• 49:05
  Melissa Shere Beek: Be your own advocate.
• 49:07
  Nadia Karam: Reach out for help. Yes. There are some amazing group of women. Yeah. MCI is an amazing hospital.
• 49:17
  Melissa Shere Beek: Was able everybody. Yeah. Information and education is the key to everything.
• 49:20
  Nadia Karam: Yes. Be careful of hormones, whatever they're trying to push right now, the narrative of, you know, it was false. No. Mine was created purely I mean, purely.
• 49:35
  Melissa Shere Beek: By HRT?
• 49:36
  Nadia Karam: By HRT. Mhmm. You know, was not a candidate.
• 49:38
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 49:39
  Nadia Karam: I saw some doctors in France also because I didn't know what what to do, do another lumpectomy clean and radiation or double mastectomy. I went with the double mastectomy because I am naturally extremely anxious and I didn't wanna go
• 49:56
  Melissa Shere Beek: There's no need to worry.
• 49:58
  Nadia Karam: In France, they're much more they Conservative? Conservative approach. But they told me, if you have dense breasts, you are not candidate for HRT. Period. Whatever they're telling you, if we're not able to see clearly in your breast, it's just gonna make it worse.
• 50:22
  Mhmm. So, they don't say that here. I say it to everyone. Yeah. Everyone.
• 50:29
  And and from there, I continued to be my own advocate. Good. They wanted to give me a hormone suppressor, which creates other cancer.
• 50:41
  Melissa Shere Beek: More problems.
• 50:42
  Nadia Karam: Yeah. Forget about the other problems, osteoporosis, It's it's a terrible drug.
• 50:50
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 50:50
  Nadia Karam: Right. So, there is a test that you can do. It's called MAMA print. Mhmm. It's it's not covered yet, unfortunately.
• 51:01
  Yeah. But MAMA print is a test They test the tumor to see what are the chances for it to be recurrent.
• 51:12
  Melissa Shere Beek: Mine
• 51:14
  Nadia Karam: was ultra low. And, thank God. So, I didn't need any chemo, any nothing. But also, I didn't need to take this drug. I mean, they want you to take the drug just in case of
• 51:33
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 51:33
  Nadia Karam: But in case of comparing to
• 51:36
  Melissa Shere Beek: No. You know your own body. Like you said, you're your own best advocate.
• 51:40
  Nadia Karam: You do. So, during this journey, I gained sisters. I mean, Ruthie is is is I mean, I can give her a kidney. Right? She can ask me for a kidney, and I'll be, for sure.
• 51:56
  Yeah. Let's go. And Friday? Right? Sure.
• 52:00
  Melissa Shere Beek: But, no, you're talking about powerful women. They, I mean, Star well, my mother, I know. I grew up with her. But Star is an amazing, incredible woman.
• 52:08
  Nadia Karam: She also became she became a very close friend of mine. She took me under her wings because I was frightened.
• 52:14
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. Sure. What's terrifying to hear those words?
• 52:17
  Nadia Karam: He was there. She she would she would call me so after the double mastectomy, they take the tissue and they test to make sure.
• 52:27
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 52:28
  Nadia Karam: She called me on a Saturday just because she had the result and didn't want me to wait for the good news on Monday.
• 52:33
  Melissa Shere Beek: She's the most dedicated physician
• 52:35
  Nadia Karam: I know too. Two young children. Yeah. She works her ass off.
• 52:40
  Melissa Shere Beek: Oh, yeah.
• 52:43
  Nadia Karam: MCI is lucky to have her because so many women
• 52:48
  Melissa Shere Beek: go
• 52:50
  Nadia Karam: there because of her. I sent so many people there because of her. She she is incredible.
• 52:56
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. She's beyond.
• 52:58
  Nadia Karam: Yeah. She would drag me out of my bed to go on walks on a Saturday when she can be with her family. Like, she
• 53:06
  Melissa Shere Beek: She's an inspiration.
• 53:08
  Nadia Karam: She's an angel. Yeah. She's we're we're walking. And I'm like, even during the week, if she has two hours in the morning and she's not she doesn't have surgery that day, she'll be like, okay. Let's go.
• 53:21
  Let's go. And when we part ways, I'm like, okay. Well, you're gonna go save lives and I'm gonna go paint. Okay? Right.
• 53:29
  Like, what? What is it? How do you measure that? And she's so and I text her for things and call her, and she takes every everything very at heart and she And never bother so I'm so blessed Yeah. In life to to have met such incredible people.
• 53:53
  Yeah.
• 53:54
  Melissa Shere Beek: So we're talk about that too because I was gonna say, you're talking about two really inspirational women. Yes. So in in your world as an artist, who you've just told me two who's, but or what inspires you?
• 54:06
  Nadia Karam: All these women. Yeah. All these women I met in in in in my life. Yeah. I was
• 54:14
  Melissa Shere Beek: Are they do they become do they and their stories become part of your artwork?
• 54:18
  Nadia Karam: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Because I think we go through the same wherever wherever you wherever you come from, whatever your culture, your religion, your wherever you're we all go through I feel the same things.
• 54:37
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. We're shaped by these experiences.
• 54:39
  Nadia Karam: Yes. The struggle. Mhmm. The the the And I feel and I don't wanna be stamped as a feminist or
• 54:51
  Melissa Shere Beek: Why not?
• 54:51
  Nadia Karam: But but well, because I think we're more than that. Yes. You know, we're we're more than that. But we have a sensitivity. We have a deeper connection with Right.
• 55:09
  Everything.
• 55:09
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. People. On a soulful
• 55:11
  Nadia Karam: Soulful level.
• 55:13
  Melissa Shere Beek: Mhmm. I agree with that a 100%.
• 55:15
  Nadia Karam: And we
• 55:17
  Melissa Shere Beek: nourish. Right. We feel energy. We feed energy.
• 55:20
  Nadia Karam: You say mother nature. Yeah. Mother earth. Mother.
• 55:24
  Melissa Shere Beek: Mhmm.
• 55:24
  Nadia Karam: And you don't need to be a mother to understand, but but we have this need of taking care of other people. Nurturing. That's how we strive. That's how that's where we get our energy by giving
• 55:38
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 55:39
  Nadia Karam: Our energy.
• 55:40
  Melissa Shere Beek: It feeds our soul too.
• 55:41
  Nadia Karam: It does. So creating for me, writing, inserting those poems, those stories, having those sarcastic quotes Yeah. Making people laugh. But they're Relating. They're yes.
• 55:55
  Yeah. And I'm making fun of us always, but I'm telling
• 55:58
  Melissa Shere Beek: Well, you have to have a sense of humor. You're not gonna get through anything.
• 56:00
  Nadia Karam: Exactly. I'm I'm You know, how to bore me by amusing everyone.
• 56:04
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. Right.
• 56:05
  Nadia Karam: Things like that. Yeah.
• 56:06
  Melissa Shere Beek: Love that. Yeah. Or
• 56:09
  Nadia Karam: Which ones? I mean, I have so many.
• 56:11
  Melissa Shere Beek: I was laughing at how how low can you hope?
• 56:13
  Nadia Karam: How low can you hope? Good. I love that. Yes. It's I think I'm gonna one day publish them.
• 56:25
  I keep saying that, but I keep adding. You should.
• 56:28
  Melissa Shere Beek: You should absolutely.
• 56:29
  Nadia Karam: Yeah. I keep adding for if you don't have the the the the the means to buy an artwork, you can have a book and you can just read it. 100%. And you laugh. It makes you think.
• 56:40
  That's what art is.
• 56:41
  Melissa Shere Beek: It makes I'm championing I'm championing this book. Absolutely. No. But you should take pictures of those images, those sort of like little capsules. Yes.
• 56:51
  And what inspired you and where it came from and the stories behind it. And then they can have a keepsake of all of that
• 56:57
  Nadia Karam: for this. Beauty is Love that. Yes. The beauty of it is that I don't owe them. And I I don't own them.
• 57:05
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 57:05
  Nadia Karam: Because everybody can see themselves
• 57:08
  Melissa Shere Beek: In it. In it. Right.
• 57:09
  Nadia Karam: So when I have those conversation starters, I always ask people, so which one
• 57:17
  Melissa Shere Beek: And resonates with
• 57:20
  Nadia Karam: they show me and then they tell me their stories. Yeah. Why?
• 57:23
  Melissa Shere Beek: I love that. And I think at different points in your lives, those quotations and things or poems that you write and things like that resonate with you on different levels and the perspectives of the experiences that you've had. Someone at 20 experiences it different at 60, but then maybe the 20 year old at 60 sees a different perspective of that.
• 57:43
  Nadia Karam: Totally.
• 57:43
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. I love that.
• 57:44
  Nadia Karam: So, when I express myself, when I create, when I write, when I paint, I put it out there. Mhmm. So, it's like
• 57:51
  Melissa Shere Beek: A piece of yourself
• 57:52
  Nadia Karam: too. Yeah. But I'm I'm I'm dealing with my issues. And once it's out there
• 57:58
  Melissa Shere Beek: It's released.
• 57:59
  Nadia Karam: It's released. Yeah. And I and I have
• 58:01
  Melissa Shere Beek: It's cathartic.
• 58:02
  Nadia Karam: It is. Yeah. It it never ends because I have so many things to say. It's But
• 58:08
  Melissa Shere Beek: at least you have an outlet for that.
• 58:10
  Nadia Karam: I do. And I I'm often asked, well, is it hard to sell your work to, you know, Yeah. Was gonna ask you this.
• 58:19
  Melissa Shere Beek: Okay. So I was thinking about this. One, how did you go from it being a personal sort of catharsis to a professional? How did you make that jump? When did you decide I need to get representation?
• 58:30
  I need to put it out there?
• 58:32
  Nadia Karam: Well, I am a woman again. Yeah. So, my friends who would come I would host dinners. That's something that I love. I loved I don't love to cook.
• 58:43
  I cook. I love to cook for people first, like putting people together. Right. So, I would host these dinners and mix people. And I had I changed it, but I had a conversation starter, and it was a huge one.
• 59:02
  And it said, everybody's full of shit. And you have no idea.
• 59:09
  Melissa Shere Beek: The responses?
• 59:09
  Nadia Karam: The responses. Like, people get offended.
• 59:12
  Melissa Shere Beek: So, this when the people that were there, were they this was the transition from you being just in a practice of doing it as a and then became a professional.
• 59:20
  Nadia Karam: Yeah. Well, so I have my work all over my house. Mhmm. So, I was hosting this dinner, and this woman, you know, who's a creator art creator saw my work and asked me why wasn't I exhibiting my work? I said, oh my god.
• 59:43
  I don't know. Like, imposter syndrome.
• 59:45
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. Yeah. Back to that.
• 59:47
  Nadia Karam: The self I have story of I live in this beautiful house.
• 59:50
  Melissa Shere Beek: I said, I'm marketing myself.
• 59:52
  Nadia Karam: I have all these huge walls full of art, and I don't know if I'm a candidate. She's like, of course, you are. You have so much to say. This is amazing. And she created my first exhibition.
• 1:00:08
  Melissa Shere Beek: That's so cool. Another impressive empowering woman. I love that.
• 1:00:12
  Nadia Karam: Absolutely. And it was sold out.
• 1:00:17
  Melissa Shere Beek: Is it hard for you to sell your work? Very. Like, what what are you experiencing when you have to give your work away, someone purchases it? Like, what is that experience?
• 1:00:26
  Nadia Karam: No. This I have The minute I finish an artwork, it's not mine anymore.
• 1:00:32
  Melissa Shere Beek: You're done with it.
• 1:00:33
  Nadia Karam: I'm done. Mhmm.
• 1:00:34
  Melissa Shere Beek: I put
• 1:00:34
  Nadia Karam: it out there.
• 1:00:35
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. I
• 1:00:37
  Nadia Karam: empty the bag, and I always keep two, three pieces per series
• 1:00:46
  Melissa Shere Beek: for my children. Excuse me. Your attachment to it is
• 1:00:50
  Nadia Karam: I'm not I am not I'm not a so about me. I don't get attached to material, to things, I just don't. Good. And my artwork included. No.
• 1:01:06
  I have no problem. What is hard for me is to advocate for myself in being represented in other because I need but, Najah, you need other galleries. You need you know, because these galleries, they don't
• 1:01:23
  Melissa Shere Beek: The marketing part is not an easy part for a creative person.
• 1:01:26
  Nadia Karam: It's not. Again, in the magical Pilates studio.
• 1:01:32
  Melissa Shere Beek: Magical Pilates studio.
• 1:01:33
  Nadia Karam: They put me in contact with this I love it. Amazing woman, and she texted me yesterday. She's in the art world, very knowledgeable. She was on the board of museums. She is still.
• 1:01:49
  And they put me in contact. I should have texted her or called her. I didn't. She texted me yesterday. It's been a month.
• 1:02:00
  She texted me yesterday.
• 1:02:01
  Melissa Shere Beek: Oh, wow.
• 1:02:01
  Nadia Karam: I didn't answer. And I thought, okay. This is me sabotaging myself. Right. I go to Pilates this morning.
• 1:02:09
  Melissa Shere Beek: The magical studio? And she it's magic.
• 1:02:11
  Nadia Karam: And she was there Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, sorry. I didn't call you back. I apologize.
• 1:02:18
  Okay. She's like, no worries. That's you know, I'm traveling. Okay. We have we have rendezvous next week.
• 1:02:26
  She's coming to see my studio and my work.
• 1:02:30
  Melissa Shere Beek: That's fabulous.
• 1:02:33
  Nadia Karam: And I'm already shrinking. Aw. What am I gonna show her?
• 1:02:37
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 1:02:37
  Nadia Karam: How because I do need more representation. I need to be in a gallery in The US. More galleries, like, not even one, but just at least one. You know, I have one in Africa, but I need one in Europe. I need my work to travel Right.
• 1:02:52
  To touch that's how your work travel touches more people.
• 1:02:55
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. More exposure. Does that self doubt like when you said you were shrinking, does that self doubt ever prohibit you from being creative? Is there ever a time that you're frustrated with your creative process?
• 1:03:06
  Nadia Karam: No. No. Never. Okay. Never.
• 1:03:08
  It's like it's it's it's like being frustrated with expressing yourself. No. No matter how you do it, just do it. Right. Cry, scream.
• 1:03:18
  Melissa Shere Beek: Oh, yeah. Because the release is great.
• 1:03:20
  Nadia Karam: That's all you need to do is release it. So no fris Frustration with
• 1:03:26
  Melissa Shere Beek: Coming up with an idea for some a new series.
• 1:03:29
  Nadia Karam: Coming with an idea, no. But being pleased
• 1:03:33
  Melissa Shere Beek: Oh, I don't think any artist is ever pleased with their work entirely. Are you always do you ever think like, oh, later on I should have done this, I should have done that or changed? 100%. So no artist is ever satisfied with their work.
• 1:03:46
  Nadia Karam: But
• 1:03:47
  Melissa Shere Beek: At least none that I've met.
• 1:03:49
  Nadia Karam: Yeah. Absolutely. I know your dad Yeah. Was an artist. My dad,
• 1:03:53
  Melissa Shere Beek: my daughters, me.
• 1:03:54
  Nadia Karam: Oh, your daughter you yeah. So your mom told me that you have to have Melissa see your studio. I'm like, okay. I will. Would love to see your studio.
• 1:04:07
  You're invited.
• 1:04:08
  Melissa Shere Beek: Oh, I'm definitely doing that.
• 1:04:09
  Nadia Karam: Let's come and have tea, and and we can talk and and show you
• 1:04:13
  Melissa Shere Beek: Tea and art. Just enticed me. That was it done.
• 1:04:15
  Nadia Karam: And tell you stories. I love that. I I love showing my work and tell and tell my stories. That that I love. That's why I love being at fairs.
• 1:04:24
  Yeah. Because usually, you know
• 1:04:28
  Melissa Shere Beek: It's a connection. A human connection.
• 1:04:30
  Nadia Karam: Gallery says, you know, you go people love to see artists, but you don't have to be there the whole time. Right. I'm there the whole time.
• 1:04:36
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. Because it's a human connection.
• 1:04:39
  Nadia Karam: Sometimes they're like, oh, they're not gonna buy. Just don't I'm like, I don't care.
• 1:04:43
  Melissa Shere Beek: It doesn't matter.
• 1:04:44
  Nadia Karam: I'll see a group of student. Mhmm. And, again, you never know. Yeah. In one of the fairs, there was a group of students, and I went to them in Morocco.
• 1:05:02
  And they went to they go to this school, art school in Tetouan, North Of Morocco. I'm I'm just so proud. And we started talking and connecting, and they have they had all these questions. And and first, they were very studious about it. But studious about it, taking notes, and and I kind of pushed them to just be themselves and talk about their art and how they connect with mine and expressing themselves.
• 1:05:30
  And we spend time and I wasn't selling and I wasn't spending time with potential buyers. I didn't care.
• 1:05:40
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 1:05:41
  Nadia Karam: And I have and my gallerist is a woman, and she I wanna say, I think I can shit on a piece of paper, and she'll connect to me. She loves what I do. She's devoted.
• 1:05:53
  Melissa Shere Beek: We'll say she's devoted
• 1:05:54
  Nadia Karam: to you. Loves No. She loves what I do. And that's why I adore her. And we are more than gallerist artists.
• 1:06:03
  Right.
• 1:06:03
  Melissa Shere Beek: She's
• 1:06:04
  Nadia Karam: my friend. And so she she she knows that I love to connect with people. So she would just
• 1:06:11
  Melissa Shere Beek: Is that the greatest takeaway? Because I was gonna ask you, what does it mean to be an artist? Is it connection?
• 1:06:20
  Nadia Karam: It is connection. It is connection. It is It's helping people Mhmm. To by connecting to your work to feel things. Yeah.
• 1:06:40
  Number one. You don't need not everyone needs to express themselves in certain way. We but art is about feeling.
• 1:06:50
  Melissa Shere Beek: Okay. That was my next question. Not just what it what it means to be an artist, but why is art important?
• 1:06:56
  Nadia Karam: It's important because you create that feeling
• 1:07:03
  Melissa Shere Beek: Mhmm.
• 1:07:04
  Nadia Karam: And that feeling is being alive. Yeah. That's how you know you're like, how do you know you exist? Right. Through the other the the the the the look of others.
• 1:07:16
  Mhmm. You know? The other. So you see me, therefore, I exist because otherwise, I would know I exist. Same with art.
• 1:07:26
  You don't know. It's like a music. You see what you told me about the music I chose and how you felt.
• 1:07:34
  Melissa Shere Beek: From my big beat. I love that.
• 1:07:35
  Nadia Karam: Yeah. And it transported you somewhere.
• 1:07:38
  Melissa Shere Beek: Oh,
• 1:07:38
  Nadia Karam: yeah. So music does that. Sense. Right. Do that.
• 1:07:42
  Melissa Shere Beek: Art does that. Does that.
• 1:07:44
  Nadia Karam: Mhmm. Sends you somewhere.
• 1:07:45
  Melissa Shere Beek: It's memory. It's an imagination. It's a future. It's a past. It's
• 1:07:51
  Nadia Karam: a And that's what AI, the future Yeah. Can't replace.
• 1:07:56
  Melissa Shere Beek: No. Mm-mm.
• 1:07:57
  Nadia Karam: So you being an artist is
• 1:08:04
  Melissa Shere Beek: Making that tangible connection to something or someone.
• 1:08:06
  Nadia Karam: That's it. And and instigating this in people. Yeah. You know? I love to finish this story about this student.
• 1:08:13
  Melissa Shere Beek: The students. Yes.
• 1:08:14
  Nadia Karam: Just to tell you Yeah. How life is, and it's never what you it seems to be. No. So we talk, and and they were young, and and one of them stayed when they left. And she said, well, I work for this foundation in Saudi Arabia.
• 1:08:37
  I'm the right hand of this princess, and we would like to curate they want to curate, and I'm assisting her, in exhibition and only women artists. Wow. And there are no Moroccan artists, no African artists, and They want you. And but not for my paintings, for my quotes. She said, because it's an art that we don't really know.
• 1:09:13
  Melissa Shere Beek: Wow.
• 1:09:14
  Nadia Karam: And it's provocative. Provocative. Yeah. So this country that is trying to revive its image and so here I am making this connection without
• 1:09:28
  Melissa Shere Beek: Amazing.
• 1:09:29
  Nadia Karam: You know, this this is what art does. This is what being open. This is what not being judgmental Right. Or set
• 1:09:37
  Melissa Shere Beek: on
• 1:09:37
  Nadia Karam: things or you never know. There are opportunities
• 1:09:42
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yes.
• 1:09:43
  Nadia Karam: Everywhere. Right. Look at the little studio. Yeah. Feel like saved my life.
• 1:09:48
  Melissa Shere Beek: You wanna call it the magical. The magical. I love that. It is. I get
• 1:09:52
  Nadia Karam: all my addresses there.
• 1:09:53
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. I love it.
• 1:09:54
  Nadia Karam: I needed to find a psychologist, a therapist, because someone in my family going through something.
• 1:10:01
  Melissa Shere Beek: But I think it's what you said. It's being open. It's talking. It's making connections And with that's all of it. And being
• 1:10:09
  Nadia Karam: afraid of different people.
• 1:10:12
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. Not being close minded.
• 1:10:14
  Nadia Karam: Not being close minded. Like, trying new food. Talking to
• 1:10:18
  Melissa Shere Beek: Oh, I love that.
• 1:10:19
  Nadia Karam: Just getting out of the, you know, labeling and the status
• 1:10:26
  Melissa Shere Beek: and Out of your bubble.
• 1:10:29
  Nadia Karam: That's all. That's called living. Yeah. You know the feeling you have? And I know I am a big traveler and I traveled I traveled traveled a lot and I love traveling, and I instigated this in my children like your mom did with you.
• 1:10:46
  So, I would the kids, we were blessed to be able to take off from work for two months during summer times, and we would go to Asia for two months and roam Asia. And we did it year after year after year. You know the feeling you have when you travel? You feel like somebody else. You feel vulnerable because you're not in your element, you don't have your car, You get you have to take to be that person that you're not.
• 1:11:25
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right. When you're not home. When you're not home. Yeah. So So art does that too.
• 1:11:31
  It transports you like that.
• 1:11:33
  Nadia Karam: Exactly. When you cannot travel, you have art. And art takes you
• 1:11:38
  Melissa Shere Beek: I feel that way about art, about books, about music. I think what you said was right.
• 1:11:43
  Nadia Karam: Oh, thank It's about creating that feeling, just feeling. Yeah. That's that's how you know you're alive.
• 1:11:49
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah.
• 1:11:49
  Nadia Karam: It's like how you know you exist. Yeah. How you know you're alive. It's your feelings. Feeling.
• 1:11:54
  Sadness, happiness, content. I love Everything. Love Once you just live for feeling things.
• 1:12:06
  Melissa Shere Beek: Beautifully said.
• 1:12:07
  Nadia Karam: Allow yourself to feel those things.
• 1:12:11
  Melissa Shere Beek: Beautifully said.
• 1:12:12
  Nadia Karam: You know? And that's how you release Mhmm. You know, by allowing yourself to feel. I
• 1:12:18
  Melissa Shere Beek: like that.
• 1:12:19
  Nadia Karam: You feel great.
• 1:12:20
  Melissa Shere Beek: We're here today.
• 1:12:21
  Nadia Karam: Yeah. I'm so glad I'm here. I'm so I'm here.
• 1:12:24
  Melissa Shere Beek: I love all your stories. I can't wait to go to your studio. I mean, that's before I let you go though
• 1:12:29
  Nadia Karam: Yes.
• 1:12:30
  Melissa Shere Beek: I do a thing called quickie questions with all of my guests. Yes. You are you game?
• 1:12:34
  Nadia Karam: I'm game.
• 1:12:35
  Melissa Shere Beek: Oh, I love it. Okay. What's your favorite journey? Oh, Life. Okay.
• 1:12:40
  Good answer. I like that one. That was good. Was there a decision in your career that changed everything for you?
• 1:12:48
  Nadia Karam: Yes. Putting myself out there.
• 1:12:49
  Melissa Shere Beek: Okay. I like that. What is your most treasured possession? And I wrote this question before you told me the story about your friend's father. I don't know if that's it, but
• 1:13:00
  Nadia Karam: Possession as material? Yeah. It could be anything. Oh. Well, material, there's nothing that you know, possession, which is not possession, It's my family.
• 1:13:16
  Yeah. It's what I created.
• 1:13:18
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. It's Your masterpiece.
• 1:13:20
  Nadia Karam: Yeah. My masterpiece because there are no books
• 1:13:22
  Melissa Shere Beek: Right.
• 1:13:23
  Nadia Karam: That teach you how to create that. Right. That's my most precious
• 1:13:32
  Melissa Shere Beek: I love it.
• 1:13:32
  Nadia Karam: Creation, Okay. I wanna
• 1:13:35
  Melissa Shere Beek: I like that. I like the phrasing of that. Okay. Last question. Favorite childhood memory?
• 1:13:41
  Nadia Karam: Oh, okay. Being in Africa, we didn't have what you grew up with. So movies were everything. I mean, two, three movies we had in VHS and watching The Breakfast Club over and over and over again with my siblings and discovering what a can of Coke was because we all we had Coke, but in Yeah. Glass Mhmm.
• 1:14:18
  Brown paper where you get to take your food sushi.
• 1:14:22
  Melissa Shere Beek: Yeah. No sushi.
• 1:14:25
  Nadia Karam: Yeah. The breakfast club. Watching the breakfast Yeah. With my That's great. And that's my comfort.
• 1:14:30
  And if I'm feeling sick or
• 1:14:34
  Melissa Shere Beek: Like good John Hughes movie
• 1:14:35
  Nadia Karam: always does it. My kids, they make fun of me because if they see me watching The Breakfast Club, they're like, oh, no.
• 1:14:41
  Melissa Shere Beek: What's wrong?
• 1:14:42
  Nadia Karam: What's wrong with that?
• 1:14:44
  Melissa Shere Beek: Least you found That's fine.
• 1:14:46
  Nadia Karam: I do. So that's my most cherished. Thank you
• 1:14:48
  Melissa Shere Beek: so much. Love that.
• 1:14:50
  Nadia Karam: Thank having you
• 1:14:50
  Melissa Shere Beek: I'm so honored to have you here today. Was I really so.
• 1:14:54
  Nadia Karam: Oh my
• 1:14:54
  Melissa Shere Beek: god. I didn't even look at the time, but I
• 1:14:56
  Nadia Karam: feel I'm just started. I'm But starting
• 1:14:59
  Melissa Shere Beek: we'll have to have you back.
• 1:15:00
  Nadia Karam: I would love to. Oh, good.
• 1:15:01
  Melissa Shere Beek: Well, thank you so much. I was really thrilled that you're here today. I knew Your you stories are incredible. Thank you. I can't wait to go to your studio.
• 1:15:08
  But Anytime. You talk about powerful, incredible women. I think you need to put yourself in that category.
• 1:15:14
  Nadia Karam: Oh, thank you. Not to get it.
• 1:15:16
  Melissa Shere Beek: No. No. No. I'm telling you.
• 1:15:18
  Nadia Karam: Thank you, man.
• 1:15:18
  Melissa Shere Beek: You said to be seen as being of who you are, but I'm seeing that you are also a badass.
• 1:15:24
  Nadia Karam: Thank you.
• 1:15:24
  Melissa Shere Beek: And incredible.
• 1:15:25
  Nadia Karam: Thank you so much.
• 1:15:26
  Melissa Shere Beek: Thank you.
• 1:15:26
  Nadia Karam: Thank you, Melissa. Thank you.
• 1:15:28
  Melissa Shere Beek: To our listeners, thank you so much. So grateful you're here. Keep listening. Keep learning. Keep laughing.
• 1:15:33
  Keep up with Beek on being. Follow Beek on being on Instagram for the latest. To share thoughts, ideas, suggestions, or nominate a guest, DM us. Want exclusive content, behind the scenes stories, and listener links? Subscribe.
• 1:15:46
  Listen to Beek on being wherever you get your podcast. All episodes are automatically transcribed. Big shout out and a huge thank you to Steven Chen at Penthouse Studios. Beek on being was recorded at Penthouse Studios and is a proud member of the Penthouse Podcast Network.