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Reclaiming Dignity and Purpose with Tamara Holder · The Trauma Therapist

0:00
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Trauma Therapists podcast. My name is Gaming Person.
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Speaker 1: I interview incredible people who've dedicated their lives to helping
0:07
Speaker 1: those who've been impacted by trauma. A big thank you
0:11
Speaker 1: to our sponsors and our guests who are supporting this show.
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Speaker 1: So five four three two one our folks, welcome back
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Speaker 1: to the podcast. Very excited to have his megans today.
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Speaker 1: Temorra Holder Tamra is a civil rights attorney and former
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Speaker 1: media commentator who survived a high profile sexual assault during
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Speaker 1: her time at Fox News, where she worked as a
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Speaker 1: contributor and legal analyst. Her path through trauma, public scrutiny,
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Speaker 1: and personal reinvention led her to the Divided Sky Foundation
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Speaker 1: recovery nonprofit founded by Fish frontman Trey Anastasio, where she
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Speaker 1: now helps creates spaces for people in recovery to reclaim dignity, community,
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Speaker 1: and purpose. All right, Temra, a little bit about you,
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Speaker 1: but before we get going here, share with the listeners
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Speaker 1: where you're from originally and where you are currently.
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Speaker 2: I am originally from southeastern Colorado. I grew up in
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Speaker 2: an agricultural community. My family was in the agriculture of
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Speaker 2: the melon and on in growing business and that brought
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Speaker 2: me all the way around the country, and I'm currently
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Speaker 2: sitting in Miami, Florida.
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Speaker 3: I have a law.
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Speaker 2: Practice in Chicago, Illinois, and you can find me here
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Speaker 2: there or at office show.
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Speaker 1: At a fish show, and fish we should just say,
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Speaker 1: is the musical group Phish for those who are maybe
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Speaker 1: not familiar. So all right, Tamaraw. Obviously I said a
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Speaker 1: little bit about it in the bio, But why are
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Speaker 1: we talking today? How did this start for you?
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Speaker 2: I think it started at a very young age, as
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Speaker 2: it does for many people who are going through trauma
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Speaker 2: in their lives. Most people, as I'm sure you know,
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Speaker 2: once they are traumatized or they experience something traumatizing, they're
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Speaker 2: more susceptible to it happening to them again. And so
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Speaker 2: for me, I experienced trauma sexual abuse at a young age,
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Speaker 2: and I seemed to find other dangerous situations that I
2:32
Speaker 2: was in throughout the.
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Speaker 3: Course of my as I became an adult.
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Speaker 2: And it finally ended when I was sexually abused at
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Speaker 2: my former workplace and I realized I was going to
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Speaker 2: focus my work moving forward on helping women heal as
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Speaker 2: a litigator, as a women's rights attorney, and it just
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Speaker 2: so happened that during COVID Trey, Anastasia started the Divided
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Speaker 2: Sky Foundation, and a light bulb went off. I thought,
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Speaker 2: oh my gosh, this is a great place for me
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Speaker 2: to hopefully be able to help women heal other than
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Speaker 2: just my law practice.
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Speaker 1: You mentioned something that I think is very important, that
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Speaker 1: a lot of trauma survivors it starts early and there is, oftentimes,
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Speaker 1: unbeknownst to them subconsciously a pattern. And you said, you
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Speaker 1: kind of found yourself in these situations. Now, can I
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Speaker 1: ask for a little more clarity. You're talking about interpersonal
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Speaker 1: relationship situations.
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Speaker 2: All kinds of situations. I realized through some intense therapy.
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Speaker 2: I actually did an md M, a therapy treatment through.
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Speaker 2: You know, this was not recreational, and of course we're
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Speaker 2: talking about Divided Sky, we're not talking about that, but
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Speaker 2: I did.
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Speaker 3: That many years ago.
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Speaker 2: And what I was able to realize is that because
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Speaker 2: my parents did not teach me how to protect myself,
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Speaker 2: which a lot of parents teach their children, and my
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Speaker 2: parents also didn't protect me, that I found myself in
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Speaker 2: situations that I was unable to read more dangerous.
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Speaker 3: And so.
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Speaker 2: It wasn't until that aha moment through that form of
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Speaker 2: therapy that I realized that it wasn't just being sexually abused,
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Speaker 2: it wasn't just the bad boyfriend, or it was really
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Speaker 2: putting myself in these situations that other people were like
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Speaker 2: that would have been like that's so dangerous?
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Speaker 3: Why did you go there? And I just could not
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Speaker 3: see it.
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Speaker 1: I love the way you articulated that was that MD experience.
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Speaker 1: When did that happen in relation to the Fox situation?
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Speaker 2: It was soon after, okay, and I thought that I
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Speaker 2: was going into it to deal with that trauma of
5:14
Speaker 2: what happened to me, And so that's why I did it.
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Speaker 2: And during literally as it was happening and I was
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Speaker 2: processing everything, but that I realized that in order to
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Speaker 2: process that harm, I had to.
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Speaker 3: Understand why I even walked into.
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Speaker 2: That person's office where another person walking by would have
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Speaker 2: been like, no, why I put myself in that situation?
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Speaker 2: And that's when I realized, Oh, this is about patterns,
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Speaker 2: and this is about prior trauma, and this is about
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Speaker 2: not truly understanding how to read the room.
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Speaker 1: So when did this situation give it happen at Fox?
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Speaker 1: How long had you been working there before this happened?
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Speaker 3: Contact I was.
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Speaker 2: There for I signed with Fox in twenty ten. Roger
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Speaker 2: Ayles he he yeah, twenty gosh, twenty ten, twenty twelve,
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Speaker 2: something like that. I'd been doing a lot of on
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Speaker 2: air camera work for Fox News prior to that, since
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Speaker 2: probably two thousand and six, two thousand and seven, but
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Speaker 2: officially signed with them as a legal analyst around that time,
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Speaker 2: and this happened.
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Speaker 3: What happened to me was in you know, late towards
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Speaker 3: the end of my time there.
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Speaker 2: I left at the end of twenty seventeen or twenty sixteen,
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Speaker 2: end of twenty.
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Speaker 1: Sixteen, Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember
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Speaker 1: hearing that there was a lot of stuff going on
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Speaker 1: at Fox News around what harassment, sexual assault. Maybe was
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Speaker 1: this part of that.
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Speaker 2: Well, I get asked a lot about that, and it's
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Speaker 2: my answer is I am still trying to heal from
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Speaker 2: that time, and I am cautious about what comes out
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Speaker 2: of my mouth during these conversations because number one, there
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Speaker 2: are people watching.
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Speaker 3: This waiting for me to say something I shouldn't say, or.
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Speaker 2: Or you know, they're they're lying, And here I am
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Speaker 2: again don't want to put myself in a dangerous situation
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Speaker 2: that I should.
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Speaker 3: Have known better.
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Speaker 2: So, but to answer your question, I really liked working
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Speaker 2: there before it wasn't a safe place for me, and
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Speaker 2: so I don't really know. You know, I laugh about
7:54
Speaker 2: this because it's important for people to understand who I
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Speaker 2: was when I was at Fox News. I was a liberal,
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Speaker 2: progressive Democrat.
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Speaker 3: I was not.
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Speaker 2: Part of like the cool kids at Fox News. So
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Speaker 2: a lot of things that were going on or allegedly
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Speaker 2: went on, I wasn't necessarily exposed to because.
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Speaker 3: I truly was an outsider for good, bad, and otherwise.
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Speaker 2: But it's important for people to understand that even though
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Speaker 2: it was a quote hostile place for somebody like me
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Speaker 2: as a Democrat, I liked it.
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Speaker 3: I had a sports show.
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Speaker 2: I had the only sports show on Fox News channel
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Speaker 2: called Sports Court, and we talked about legal, social, and
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Speaker 2: political issues in sports, like transgender and sports, all these things.
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Speaker 3: I remember we had Tom.
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Speaker 2: Brady put a Make America Great hat in his locker
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Speaker 2: room with the Patriots, and this seems like so.
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Speaker 3: Long ago, and now I remember that, you know, like
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Speaker 3: it is that should he have done that?
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Speaker 2: And he were works for the you know, he works
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Speaker 2: for the Patriots, like all these things. So it was
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Speaker 2: that was the time those were the times that I
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Speaker 2: like to remember.
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Speaker 1: So all right, I appreciate you saying that we'll take
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Speaker 1: our focus off of that and maybe kind of understand
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Speaker 1: your response, how you personally responded to what happened, What
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Speaker 1: did you do, how did you handle how did things
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Speaker 1: unfold for you after this happened? And was it a
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Speaker 1: one time thing or was this ongoing?
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Speaker 2: Well, again, I don't want to talk about the specifics, okay.
9:39
Speaker 2: I want to talk about how I healed, and I
9:48
Speaker 2: want to talk about because my story happened so long
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Speaker 2: ago that it was part of Like I said earlier,
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Speaker 2: I have carried, as a lot of women do, I've
10:07
Speaker 2: carried a lot of trauma with me through life, and
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Speaker 2: there was a point at this time that was so
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Speaker 2: heavily publicized that it was potentially a point of no
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Speaker 2: return and I had I didn't have Divided Sky. I
10:27
Speaker 2: am not a I'm not a recovering addict. That is
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Speaker 2: not my problem. My problem, though, was the trauma and
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Speaker 2: the psychological and emotional trauma that I had been carrying
10:40
Speaker 2: with me that was becoming too much to bear.
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Speaker 3: I wish that I had a place like Divided Sky.
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Speaker 2: And in fact, even though Divided SKY provides recovery and
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Speaker 2: sobriety help based on the Twelve Steps. They very much
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Speaker 2: teach this idea of emotional sobriety. And if I would
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Speaker 2: have had the teachings of emotional sopriety at that time,
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Speaker 2: I don't think I would have been as traumatized as
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Speaker 2: I was. And I had to get through it by myself.
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Speaker 2: And the reason why I'm sitting here today truly living
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Speaker 2: and helping other women, whether it's through divide A Sky
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Speaker 2: or as a women's rights attorney representing women who've been
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Speaker 2: sexually abused by their doctors or discriminated against in their workplace.
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Speaker 2: I yeah, I just it's a lot, you know, and
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Speaker 2: and I don't want somebody to have to go through
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Speaker 2: what I went through.
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Speaker 1: Had you sought out therapy at any time in your
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Speaker 1: healing process or any types of.
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Speaker 3: Therapy, sure, lots of therapy.
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Speaker 2: I've been in therapy for many years for different things,
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Speaker 2: and I've been medicated on lexapro and I have ADHD
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Speaker 2: and I was on an adderall and then you know,
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Speaker 2: going through kind of the motions of psychological healing. And
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Speaker 2: the way that I explained therapy to people is that
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Speaker 2: it's a tool, but it's not necessarily like it helps
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Speaker 2: you cope, but it doesn't necessarily.
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Speaker 3: Take it away, take away your pain.
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Speaker 2: And so which is why it's so important, because if
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Speaker 2: you just keep on moving down the road without therapy,
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Speaker 2: it's it's very hard to cope. But if you don't
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Speaker 2: confront your trauma, if you don't confront the abuse, the
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Speaker 2: abuse will confront you. And I deal with women who
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Speaker 2: have were sexually abused by a doctor fifteen years ago
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Speaker 2: and always thought something was wrong until they saw in
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Speaker 2: the news that he's abused or the women and they
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Speaker 2: want to just keep it moving, but their body and
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Speaker 2: their trauma response is, let no, I have to confront
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Speaker 2: this now, I have to stand up to this. Otherwise
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Speaker 2: it's ruined us. It's ruined us to the psyche.
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Speaker 1: I want to segue into Divided Sky Foundation, but before
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Speaker 1: we get there, I'm wondering if you can share, has
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Speaker 1: there been a particular thing modality treatment that has helped you.
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Speaker 2: Yes, like I said, MDMA helped me. It is not
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Speaker 2: for everyone, and I want to be cautious because we're
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Speaker 2: talking about Divided Sky and people that are in recovery,
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Speaker 2: and I don't want people to think that to go
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Speaker 2: out and do something like MDMA or whatever, ketamine or
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Speaker 2: something is the proper answer for anybody else. This was
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Speaker 2: something that was available to me at a time. Like
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Speaker 2: I said, I didn't have a divided sky in my
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Speaker 2: tool chest.
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Speaker 3: It was helpful and I think people are gonna laugh.
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Speaker 2: I'm smiling because people are gonna laugh if they hear
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Speaker 2: this and they don't know fish. But having a community
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Speaker 2: like fish, and really there is no other community in
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Speaker 2: the world like fish. If you know it, you get it,
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Speaker 2: and you love it because it's a special place and
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Speaker 2: we're all kind of the weirdos that have found each
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Speaker 2: other in this space of truly the most prolific band
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Speaker 2: of our generation. And that to me, the Fish experience
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Speaker 2: and what Trey Anastasio and the rest of the Eyes
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Speaker 2: have put together is a healing space for me. And
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Speaker 2: I don't think that I am alone in saying that,
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Speaker 2: And so it's great to be able to go somewhere
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Speaker 2: with like minded people. I also want to point out
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Speaker 2: that a lot of people who don't know the fish
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Speaker 2: culture community is that there are all of these foundations
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Speaker 2: that set up at a fish show, so you have
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Speaker 2: the fellowship p H.
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Speaker 3: E L L O W S H I P.
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Speaker 2: You have fans for racial equality pH A N S.
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Speaker 3: You have you know, you have divided Sky. That's there.
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Speaker 2: The Waterwheel Foundation, which is an incredible foundation. They are
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Speaker 2: Fish's original charity and they raise money for charities in
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Speaker 2: the towns where Fish goes.
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Speaker 3: These are amazing organizations.
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Speaker 2: That if you are you don't have to be the
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Speaker 2: you know, the druggy or the the guy that lives
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Speaker 2: in the van, all those kind of like funny memes
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Speaker 2: that you think of when you hear Fish there is.
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Speaker 2: It's such a healing space for so many people.
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Speaker 1: Okay, how this is the question that's been on, how
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Speaker 1: the hell did you get involved with them?
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Speaker 3: Okay, So.
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Speaker 2: I grew up listening to Fish and my older sister,
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Speaker 2: uh not real sister, she lists She was four years
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Speaker 2: older and she listened to Fish, and my mother was like,
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Speaker 2: you are not going to listen to that band.
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Speaker 3: You were not going to Red Rocks. They were a
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Speaker 3: very big Colorado band.
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Speaker 2: This is in the nineties and they're too big to
16:39
Speaker 2: play at Red Rocks anymore. But U So I always
16:43
Speaker 2: grew up listening to them and liking them, but I
16:44
Speaker 2: couldn't go and Candice was like my fun friend who
16:48
Speaker 2: got to go to Fish shows. Fast forward to you know,
16:51
Speaker 2: life and law school, I go my own way. Fish
16:54
Speaker 2: takes some time off because Trey's journey into recovery, which
17:00
Speaker 2: he's very open about, and they come back together and
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Speaker 2: Candace takes me to my first show two thousand and
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Speaker 2: nine at Toyota Park and it was like all of
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Speaker 2: the weirdos came out like it was just and I'm like,
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Speaker 2: I don't know this is I don't know if this
17:17
Speaker 2: is for me, but it was, of course, and because
17:21
Speaker 2: you know, you.
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Speaker 3: Have to bring out your inner weirdo. So fast forward
17:25
Speaker 3: to then dating a very prominent guy in the music
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Speaker 3: business after I left Fox.
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Speaker 2: Very prominent, and he didn't particularly like Fish, and I
17:38
Speaker 2: loved them so much by this point that I thought,
17:41
Speaker 2: you know, you don't like Fish, So not only am
17:46
Speaker 2: I going to like be the biggest fishman ever, I'm
17:49
Speaker 2: going to do good things with this band and I'm
17:54
Speaker 2: going to show you. And this was of course before
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Speaker 2: Divided Sky happened. Then Divided Sky happens. It was like
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Speaker 2: like the Heaven's open for me because it truly is
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Speaker 2: where I meant to be, is helping people, and so
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Speaker 2: I just it's it's just, but how did.
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Speaker 1: You get in there with Divided.
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Speaker 3: Sky donating money?
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Speaker 1: Okay?
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Speaker 2: You know that I was a very early donor to
18:21
Speaker 2: this cause that I felt so passionate about. And I'm
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Speaker 2: I'm self made. I had nothing given to me. Everything
18:27
Speaker 2: that I've done has been through a journey of healing
18:30
Speaker 2: and h including my own you know, professional success. And
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Speaker 2: I wrote Trey a letter after the Beacon Jams five
18:37
Speaker 2: years ago, and uh, he was just announcing the charity
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Speaker 2: and I said, you.
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Speaker 3: Know, I was on Fox News.
18:43
Speaker 2: I uh have been through this journey and I think
18:48
Speaker 2: women need to have a place to heal.
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Speaker 3: And made a donation.
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Speaker 2: I don't recall what the amount was, but my words.
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Speaker 2: I really think that my words struck a chord with
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Speaker 2: him and we were all able to build something together.
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Speaker 1: Just as an aside, when you went into law school,
19:07
Speaker 1: did you go in with the idea that you wanted
19:09
Speaker 1: to help other women or other survivors of sexual assault
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Speaker 1: or what.
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Speaker 3: I was very angry.
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Speaker 2: And because of my traumatizing childhood, and I hated the police,
19:27
Speaker 2: and so I wanted I started off my career as
19:31
Speaker 2: a criminal defense attorney I built a legal clinic with
19:35
Speaker 2: Reverend Jesse Jackson. When I was twenty six years old
19:39
Speaker 2: out of law school, I started my own law practice,
19:42
Speaker 2: and I also built.
19:43
Speaker 3: This legal clinic at Ring of Push.
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Speaker 2: And as you know, and maybe some of your listeners know,
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Speaker 2: Reverend Jackson is the protege of Martin Luther King, and
19:56
Speaker 2: I was able to learn about how to help people
20:00
Speaker 2: ball through him, good, bad and otherwise. Right, when you
20:03
Speaker 2: exposed yourself to a highly political social justice figure, a
20:09
Speaker 2: lot comes with it that I wasn't necessarily prepared for
20:12
Speaker 2: at such.
20:13
Speaker 3: A young age.
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Speaker 2: But through that, and through working at Fox and being
20:18
Speaker 2: exposed to politics and whatever, it just took me to
20:22
Speaker 2: this journey of like, wait a second, I'm helping all
20:25
Speaker 2: of these people that certainly need to be helped, but
20:28
Speaker 2: we women are also we need help, and we're we're
20:33
Speaker 2: so forgotten in our fight for you know, I helped
20:39
Speaker 2: black men get out of prison, I which there's there's
20:42
Speaker 2: a need for that, but we women are treated so
20:45
Speaker 2: differently in society that I really wanted.
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Speaker 3: I found my calling and that's helping women heal.
20:52
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's kind of shift to divided sky. What
20:58
Speaker 1: is it who's it for.
21:01
Speaker 3: Sure.
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Speaker 2: Divided Sky is a recovery center. It's in Ludlow, Vermont.
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Speaker 2: It has I think thirty six I don't know the
21:14
Speaker 2: number of beds. I do know that for the first
21:18
Speaker 2: time ever, all thirteen of the women's beds are full.
21:22
Speaker 2: And it is a recovery center. It is not your
21:26
Speaker 2: dex rehab center. Once you've detoxed, you go there. It
21:31
Speaker 2: is based on the twelve Steps. They teach you the
21:36
Speaker 2: emotional sopriety and all of the things that the twelve
21:39
Speaker 2: step program is.
21:42
Speaker 3: About. But the most important part about Divided.
21:46
Speaker 2: Sky is that Trey Anastasia was on the verge of
21:49
Speaker 2: death because he was addicted to heroin. When he got
21:52
Speaker 2: arrested for heroin, he went through the social the system
21:59
Speaker 2: and Melanie gold Gulde she is. She was his rehab
22:07
Speaker 2: counselor and her program through the court system helped him
22:13
Speaker 2: and saved him. And Trey will tell you that she
22:16
Speaker 2: saved his life. Fast forward to wanting to build a
22:20
Speaker 2: rehab center. He called Melanie and said, let's do this together.
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Speaker 2: And so this program is different than any other program
22:28
Speaker 2: in the world because Melanie saved Trey's life, and that
22:33
Speaker 2: program is now being used to help other people heal.
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Speaker 2: So it's a remarkable program.
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Speaker 1: So how is it differentiated from other programs.
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Speaker 2: Well, I can't compare the I can't compare the other programs.
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Speaker 2: But what I can't say is that Trey Anastasio was
22:54
Speaker 2: addicted to heroin and was about to die, because that's
22:58
Speaker 2: what heroin does to people. She as a result of
23:03
Speaker 2: his arrest, her program saved his life. And that is
23:08
Speaker 2: what is different about any other program. I don't know
23:12
Speaker 2: of another program in the country where somebody as prolific
23:17
Speaker 2: as Trey Anastasio had their life saved. You see a
23:21
Speaker 2: lot of revolving door rehab centers.
23:23
Speaker 3: There was an.
23:24
Speaker 2: Article on the front page of the Wall Street Journal
23:26
Speaker 2: the other day about these rehab centers that just take
23:29
Speaker 2: insurance money and throw people back on the street.
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Speaker 3: That is not this. It's cheap ish, you know.
23:35
Speaker 2: It's like seven thousand dollars compared to tens of thousands
23:38
Speaker 2: of dollars, and it's a program that you can walk
23:43
Speaker 2: out fully recovered if you do the work.
23:46
Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the other things about addiction, too, is
23:49
Speaker 1: it does have that it takes multiple times for people
23:55
Speaker 1: to get through or to get healed from addiction. Right.
23:58
Speaker 1: Oftentimes they'll go through an place and they'll get clean,
24:03
Speaker 1: but then they'll go back again. So it can be
24:07
Speaker 1: a process for a lot of people. But it's incredible
24:09
Speaker 1: what he experienced. So you're here talking about that, obviously,
24:17
Speaker 1: it must be pretty impactful for you to be here
24:20
Speaker 1: talking about that sharing that.
24:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm here.
24:25
Speaker 2: I think to also talk about the Women's Recovery Fund
24:28
Speaker 2: that we started. We have a scholarship fund. We're raising
24:31
Speaker 2: up to any We'll raise any amount of money, but
24:33
Speaker 2: we have a goal of five hundred thousand dollars by
24:35
Speaker 2: the end of the year. And this scholarship fund is
24:38
Speaker 2: directly going to help women who don't know that they
24:43
Speaker 2: can afford to go to rehab that we have. We
24:46
Speaker 2: have the money. If they want to go, we have
24:49
Speaker 2: the money. We will pay for you through a scholarship
24:52
Speaker 2: whatever you need. If you need a full scholarship, it's
24:54
Speaker 2: based on it, if you need a partial scholarship. We
24:57
Speaker 2: don't want a woman to not seek recovery simply because
25:03
Speaker 2: she cannot afford to pay, and women are left behind in.
25:07
Speaker 3: The recovery space.
25:08
Speaker 2: The statistics are there, they will It shows you that
25:10
Speaker 2: women seek out recovery at far less rates than men.
25:13
Speaker 3: We don't know why. It could be because they're the mothers.
25:16
Speaker 3: They have to take care of their children.
25:20
Speaker 2: The stigma, there's more of a stigma attached to women
25:22
Speaker 2: who are suffering from addiction or just the simple lack
25:26
Speaker 2: of information out there.
25:27
Speaker 3: And so we're putting the word.
25:29
Speaker 2: Out that if you are a woman and you cannot
25:32
Speaker 2: afford recovery, we are here to help you. We are
25:35
Speaker 2: raising money out of everybody's hard earned money. Five dollars,
25:39
Speaker 2: ten dollars, one hundred thousand dollars, whatever you have, we
25:42
Speaker 2: will find a way to get you into rehab.
25:44
Speaker 1: And when you say we, are you talking about the
25:46
Speaker 1: Divided Sky Foundation, Yes.
25:50
Speaker 2: And I'm talking about the scholarship fund. We as the donors.
25:55
Speaker 2: I've donated a substantial amount of money. I don't think
25:59
Speaker 2: it's enough, but I'm asking people, or we're asking people,
26:03
Speaker 2: if you could please donate something because you are going
26:06
Speaker 2: to save a woman's life.
26:07
Speaker 3: And that woman is your sister or your mother, your
26:09
Speaker 3: best friend.
26:11
Speaker 1: Okay, So as we kind of wine down here, how
26:14
Speaker 1: do people and this is great, I mean, there are
26:17
Speaker 1: obviously a lot of therapists who are listening to this.
26:19
Speaker 1: Who will know of people who this might be relevant for?
26:25
Speaker 1: How do they learn more about this fund?
26:28
Speaker 3: Sure?
26:29
Speaker 2: So, divided sky dot org is uh is online and
26:34
Speaker 2: you can click it and type it. You can find
26:36
Speaker 2: out about all the information at divided sky dot dot
26:40
Speaker 2: commra dot org.
26:41
Speaker 3: I one of those too, divided sky dot org.
26:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, divide that's what I thought it was divided skuy
26:47
Speaker 2: dot org.
26:48
Speaker 3: And uh, there's also a link.
26:50
Speaker 2: I think there's now even a pop up that says
26:53
Speaker 2: donate to the fund right away. Really any amount, big
26:56
Speaker 2: or small is super helpful. And then if you go
26:59
Speaker 2: to my Instagram, I'm at Tamara Underscore Holder and i
27:04
Speaker 2: even have a link for the fund on my bio
27:09
Speaker 2: on Instagram.
27:10
Speaker 1: Okay, and for people who are interested in maybe taking
27:15
Speaker 1: advantage of that scholarship, same same link, same.
27:19
Speaker 3: Website, same website.
27:22
Speaker 2: All you have to do is contact Divide as guide
27:24
Speaker 2: directly and you will speak to somebody. They're like just
27:27
Speaker 2: a couple of people that you will have access to
27:29
Speaker 2: that are there and will do an intake and help
27:32
Speaker 2: determine what your needs are, when they can get you
27:35
Speaker 2: in and what kind of scholarship you need.
27:38
Speaker 1: Okay, awesome, I appreciate that, all right, Tamra, appreciate you
27:42
Speaker 1: being here. Thank you so much. Incredible and inspiring. Yeah,
27:48
Speaker 1: we'll be in touch.
27:49
Speaker 3: All right. Thanks,