Latest / Mom Wars / Fat Jabs and Pelvic Floors

Transcript

Fat Jabs and Pelvic Floors · Mom Wars

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: From the front lines of The Mom Wars. Here's Bethany
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Mandel and Kara Kennedy.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to another episode of one of your
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: more unreliable podcasts. This is what happens when you have
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: two moms doing this for funsies. Sometimes we're late, so
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: apologies in advance. I am your American host. It's very
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: easy to tell us apart. Sometimes I have a hard
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: time with podcasts because I have a hard time telling
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: them apart. But you never will with The Mom Wars
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: because I'm your American host, Bethany Mandel. I am a
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: frequent contributor to The New York Post and The Washington Examiner,
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: and I have six children who I homeschool, and I
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: am joined by my co host.
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: Kara Kennedy. Although I'm now officially Kara Clamont. I finally
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: changed my name really after two years.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's going to stick. You guys are going
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: to stay married.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, after my green cod comester and I'm jacking. Yeah,
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: so I'm officially car Claimont, which.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Like professionally, that's what you're gonna go by.
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: No, I don't think so, because I feel like that's
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: a crazy thing to do. A couple of years into
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: your career.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: I don't think so you don't, No, I don't, I can,
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: but I think you should pick one and go with it.
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I'll stick with Kennon. I don't know.
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: It just feels too hot.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: It rolls better, it's rock and roll.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: But also, like I know, all of these journalists, like
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: my so, my husband's aunt worked for Vogue, like in
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: its heyday. She actually took over Joan Didon's shop after
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: Joan Didyon, and she has had three names professionally, and
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: it's so hard to find a byline by her interest.
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: It's really difficult. And she's interviewed all of these incredible people,
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: and she tells me about it, and then I go
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: and try and look for it. And I mean, it's
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: hard to find news articles from the nineteen seventies anyway,
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: but it's even harder if you don't know what marriage
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: she was on time, you know.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: And so wait, so you didn't finish introducing yourself.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: You're oh, yeah, sorry, I go. Yeah. I am a
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: mother of one and I have five months pregnant, and
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: it's kind of crazy how different pregnancies can go. I'm
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: now five months into this pregnancy, so I feel like
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: I can say with authority that this is just like
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: so different to my first pregnancy. My cravens are completely different.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: My first cravens were chocolate cake, which I would eat
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: like to a day, and I gained seventy pounds seventy
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: five pounds all in all. And my cravens this time
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: is like a really nice fresh salad, which is a
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: hilarious craven to have. And I just feel completely different,
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: probably because I'm not gorgeing on two chocolate cakes today.
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: I feel active. I feel like I can move and breathe,
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: which is very different to how I felt last time.
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: So I'm I'm shocked by how because they always say like, oh,
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: every pregnancy is different, but you feel like if it's
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: the same mum, you know they're going to do kind
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: of similar.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: I had very different feeling pregnancies my first and my
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: third pregnancy. I was very sick. My third especially, I
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: was a wreck. I was on We joked that his
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: middle name should have friend Zofran because I was on
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: it from like day one up until I delivered.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: Wait, really, so I tried to go on so fun
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: and they wouldn't have it until twelve weeks.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: Interesting, so apparently it's been linked to heart problems since then, right,
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: but it was funny, So he was He was by
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: far my hardest. And then when I got pregnant with
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: my fourth, we had just moved to Maryland, and when
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: I interviewed my midwife, I said, if you my my criteria,
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: my only criteria was if you will not prescribe me
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Zofran the moment I call you without even second guessing me,
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: then we're good and I'll hire you. But if that's
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: not something you're willing to do, then, like we part
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: ways right now because I need someone who will prescribe
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: Sofran instantly. And at that point, like I had had
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: three natural births and I was like, listen, I can
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: do a nine pound baby in the front seat of
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: a Nissan Altima. I cannot do another pregnancy without Zofran
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: and so, but then my fourth pregnancy was fine. I
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: think I was allergic to New Jersey because my fourth,
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: my fifth, and my sixth were born here in Maryland,
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: and I was fine. I like, I think I threw
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: up maybe four times total between the three pregnancies. Four
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: times a day was my average with my third pregnancy.
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: Oh wow, it was awful. That's crazy.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: But I had all the same cravings every single time.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: Oh wait, what were they?
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Wacky mac?
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: I don't know who that is mac and cheese.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: It's yeah, it's the Kraft macarie and cheese, the kosher kind.
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: Oh that sounds so gross.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: Oh that was I joke that that's the reason why
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: I have so many redheads because the dye in the cheese. Quote.
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: Oh that sounds so sorry.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: Okay, so that a chicken caesar salad nice? Or so
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: I keep kosher so we don't mix milk and meat.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: So either a chicken caesar salad or a caesar salad
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: with shaved palm. Yeah, I can't do both. So I
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: really had to go one way or the other. And
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: it was fifty to fifty. My third craving that I
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: actually weirdly had a craving for this last night and
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: Seth joked like, are you spaghetti with butter and parmesan
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: cheese on top?
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: That's incredible.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Once he made I asked him to make noodles like
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: my pregnancy noodles butter palm cheese on top. That's it,
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: And he made a shape instead of spaghetti and he
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: handed me the bowl and I burst into tears and
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: I forced him to make a bowl of spaghetti for me.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: I was like, no, that's completely fair, right, yeah, and
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: I still feel bad against him. I was like, how
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: do you not know that it has to be spaghetti.
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So in my first time ast of this time,
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: I would perfectly portion food for exactly how hungry I was,
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: like the down to the amount of bites, and then
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: Nick would like walk up and just take a spoonful
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: and I would cry every time. It was oh my god.
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: He only did it a couple of times because he
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: learned by like the third time that I'm not joking,
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: but yeah, it was terrible. But I have a theory
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: that women just like protein less than men. And you
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: sound like that's true for you.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: It was all carbs. I had to have me to
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: me too. And it was interesting because after I had
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: all the babies, I I guess we could talk about
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: it right now. I have spent the summer losing a
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: ton of weight. I lost thirty five pounds this summer.
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, yeah, all done.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna be one
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: of those people that lies. So I went to the
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: doctor and I just got like a work up because
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: it had been a very long time and I had
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: pre diabetes. Wow, which really spooked me, because both my
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: parents had diabetes, and my dad's brothers had have had
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: one in his past. One is still alive, but both
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: all three of my dad's him and his two brothers
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: all had diabetes. And my dad was super, super deeper
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: in shape. He was a bodybuilder, So obviously there's a
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: lot of genetics here I play. So I talked to
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: my doctor and she was like, listen with your family history.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: I know that you like want to like try to
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: tough it out and try to lose the weight on
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: your own, but like you need to go on something
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: one of those injectables. And I was like, oh, I
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: don't know, because I I thought, and I still think
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: that there is a downside that we don't know about.
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: I don't I disagree.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: I know, I think there's an unknown unknown, But she
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: convinced me, and I think that she's here.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: I've been trying this stuff for twenty years now. It's
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: not that new.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: I know, but the number of people who are on
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: them now is much bigger. There's a pool that's true,
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: but I will say. She's like, okay, so let's talk
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: about the unknown unknown. And she did say that that
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: we've been trialing these for twenty years and if there
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: is a downside, it's obviously not significant enough to show
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: up in the population of people who've been using them.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: You have a known known, and that's diabetes, and you
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: are now very you're press a being very close to
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: that and that is bad, and you know that's bad.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: That's a no known And I was like, you have
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: a good point. So I think I'm on month So
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: I'm sort of on month five of this, maybe four,
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: maybe four or five, I don't remember. So I did
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: zep bound and I was on the two point five,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: which is like the intro dose. But I also cut
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: carbs at the same time, like I pretty much donate
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: carbs except I have rice at dinner. That's it. The
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: first three months that I took two point five, which
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: you're only suppoted to take it for a month, and
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: I but I was losing weight so fast that she
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: kept me on it. I lost I don't know, ten
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: pounds a month, less than that, maybe like eight pounds
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: a month.
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: You can't talk to somebody that is more pros A
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: Bound than me. I know, so pros that band.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: Okay. So I lost a ton of weight the first
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: three months, and then my insurance company wouldn't cover the
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: third month of it because they're like, it's an intro dose,
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: you have to move on, and so I had to
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: pay for the third dose out of pocket. I got
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: a coupon, which was good.
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Was it like five hundred bucks after the coupon.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, really expensive. It was six to fifty I think.
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: So that's what we pay a month. Oh my god, Yeah,
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: we have no insurance coverage. It's a joke.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: Oh my god. All right, so I'll let you get
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: into that. We did that. So I did that. So
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: that third month was the two point five and then
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: so I did two months of it, and then I
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: had to take a month off because I was fighting
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: my insurance company and I'm very relentless, and I lost
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: and it was the first time I've ever lost a
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: fight with my insurance company. So I spent a whole
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: month fighting them, and then I gave up and then
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: I went back on it for two point five. So
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: that was my third month and now I'm so, I
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: guess I'm on month four and now I'm on five milligrams.
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: And are you going to stay on five metagrams?
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no way I can go up. Like I don't.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: I'm still losing and I'm feeling i feel nauseous, like
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: it feels like I'm pregnant.
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: It makes you extremely fit this link no we go.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it makes sense though, like when you
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: lose weight you're more fertile. It makes sense. But I
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: that would be an act of God because I have
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: an IUD. But yeah, so I've lost over thirty five
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: pounds and it's nice because I was at a business
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: meeting in person, I like last week, and I was
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: I was in the business meeting with someone who's in
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: his seventies I think, and a really like prim and
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: proper guy who doesn't like he understands like appropriate professional boundaries.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: And he was like, I'm really sorry to ask this,
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: but have you lost a significant amount of weight in
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: a very short amount of time since I've seen you last?
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: And I was like, yes, I have. Thank you for
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: saying that, and he's like, I really wrestled if I
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: should say anything, but it's very obvious, and I.
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: Was like, yeah, I have that's great. I love that.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so thirty five pounds incounting, I think I have
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: another fifteen to go. I would say I needed to
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: lose fifty pounds, and so I'm, you know, thirty five
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: in need about fifteen more. It is going much slower
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: than it did at first. Yeah, it kind of tapes,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: So I will say. The one encouraging thing was I
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: did not that month that I was off of it
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: while I was fighting my insurance company, I didn't gain
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: anything back.
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: Wow, Okay, that's good to know. Yeah, because the criticism
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: around a zampickins abound is always like, oh, well, if
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: you go, you'll gain the weight, but like, yeah, just
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: never go off it.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know, no, So I low key love it.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: It is a really good impulse control thing for me,
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: and not just with food. I find myself maybe it's
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: a I don't think it's a placebo thing, but I
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: find myself much more focused and less prone to being impulsive.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: But I enjoy it immensely. And I was always afraid
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: that I wouldn't be able to go off of it,
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: and now I'm like, would it be the worst thing
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: in the world. It's fine.
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's also proven to be newer, protective and significantly
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: lesser chances of stuff like dementia.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: So I think that's also just because fat people yeah better.
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: I think a lot of it is from it is
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: just unhealthy to be twenty thirty forty fifty pounds of away.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it's that simple. Seth has tried to
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: like talk me into being more okay with it by
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: throwing that stuff at me, because I did feel like
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: it was cheating a little bit, But then when diabetes
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: was put on the table, I was like, oh, I'm
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: okay with cheating.
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: I also just think some people are just unable, whether
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: it's through having multiple children or having food cravens that
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: are like unbelievably loud, or many other issues. I think
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: some people just get to a natural kind of halt
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: in their journey.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: I found it. I found it very, very helpful to
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: pair it with because I basically was pregnant for ten years.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: Like more or less, I was pregnant for ten years,
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: and I had changed how I ate a lot because
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: of that, and so I was eating a lot of
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: carbs because that was the only way I was able
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: to be functional because I was so sick. The first
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: three and the last three. I think I understood what
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: I needed to do to keep myself on a steady,
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: healthy equilibrium with the nausea, and so I think a
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: lot of why the last three pregnancies were better was because,
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: like I understood how I needed to manage what was
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: hyperemesis like severe morning sickness, and so I managed it better.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: I wonder how bad my first pregnancy would have been
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: had I had the information that I subsequently learned, because
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: I would feel nauseous and not eat and I didn't
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: know at the time that that was making it ten
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: times worse. I learned that I had to carbload in
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: order to and so in ten years, and I was
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: young when I got my When I had my first baby,
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: I was only twenty seven, and so from twenty second
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: that makes me feel young, But that's a huge chunk
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: of your life. That's a third of my over a
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: third of my life that I was pregnant. And I
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: completely changed the way I ate for those ten years,
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: and I needed to break that cycle of eating carbs, carbs, carps, carbs, carbs,
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: and so you know this that bound helped me, I
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: think go carb super low, which is what I needed
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: to do to lose the way, and I don't really
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: miss the carbs that much. Was it was easier, for sure,
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: but I'm not I don't miss it. And now I
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: think back at like what I used to like shove
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: in my mouth and I'm like, oh, yeah, I was
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: almost one hundred and ninety pounds, Like, yeah, I was
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: eating a croissant for breakfast every morning.
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this is how I feel about my last pagnancy. Honestly,
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: I don't know how I functioned. And I like couldn't
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: breathe towards the end of it. If I was even
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: slightly like on an incline, I couldn't breathe at all.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: It was really bad. But yeah, I think a zempic
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: and zeb bound. I actually think zep bound is better
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: than a zempic. YEA, Like a lot of the side
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: effects come from a zempic specifically, But I think it's great.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: I have My husband has been on it now for
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: I think nearly two years.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: Wow, and it's it's just still losing or is this
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: just a stasis situation?
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: I mean that so I wrote about this, so I
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: don't think he'll mind me saying it. But I think
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: that he has like a kind of compulsive thing now
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: where he's like, oh, I've lost so much. Wait, like,
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: I don't think he's ready to stop, if that makes sense.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: Can I ask you what milligram he's on? You know?
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: Yes? Five?
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay, that's good.
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: He went up to twelve point five though, wow at
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: one point.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm middle of this five dose. I'm hoping that
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: I only am on it for another two or three
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: months before I can.
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: Do you think do you think you're going to go
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: off it?
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I think so. I mean I I was fine
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: that month that I was off of it. I would
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: like not to, you know, be on it forever.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's interesting. So a lot of the
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: people I know on a men Funny enough, I know
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: probably ten men on is that mound right now? And
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: I remember sitting around a table at a cigar bar
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: and there were seven men around me, and one by
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: one they all admitted to be and on it. And
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: I would say, oh, this is hilarious. It's such a
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: male kind of vanity thing. But I don't know anybody
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: else that has that doesn't plan on being being on
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: it for hour. So that's interesting. You say that it's
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: it is expensive ncause nickers. I mean, there used to
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: be much bigger problem. But when zepbound first kind of
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: came out for people who weren't diabetic, it was really
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: hard to get hold of. So we would have to
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: sometimes cross state lines to go to a CBS to
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: be able to get it. Yeah, it was crazy. It
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: was it was like trying to get heroin or something
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: when we was like very intense. But now you can
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: just get it. It's less of a it's less of
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: a problem. But so there have been time when Nick
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: hasn't been able to get his prescription for a couple
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: of weeks and his food cramings come back, like you
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: can totally see a difference one month to the next
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: if he's on it, and he doesn't like that. So
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: I think that he in his mindset if he's on
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: it forever, it's fine if he if he doesn't have
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: to be, then even a beout it. But it's just.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't I didn't have them. I was off
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: of it for five weeks. It was on the two
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: point five for two months, and then I was off
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: of it for five weeks and I didn't get anything back,
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: and I didn't really feel the cravings. I do feel
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: more cravings now than I did the first month, for sure,
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: like that it has tapered my impulsivity a little bit
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: and my cravings a little bit. But I don't feel
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: hungry at all, So I will go are large portion
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: of the day eating very little and I don't really notice,
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: so I think it all sort of evens out that way.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: But I'm very curious. I don't know if I'm gonna
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: so I'm going away to Israel into two weeks exactly,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: actually like tomorrow's two weeks exactly, so I don't think
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna have time to go to the doctor. But
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: I'm very curious to see if my numbers on the
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: diabetes front are improving, and I'm really really hoping they
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: are because that would be nice.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: I don't want to have you had any blood tests
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: since you started. No, okay, that would be interesting to day.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I've been doing virtual visits with my doctor
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: and I need actually I need to make an appointment
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: tomorrow because I need a vac I need like a
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: vacation override so I can get two months worth because
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: I'm going away for six weeks. BT dub for housekeeping
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: purposes with the podcast will be even less frequent than
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: we are now, but I pledge to try to still
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: record there. We'll figure it out.
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll figure it out.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Hello, I'm James Lonwicks, and I'm at the diner. You
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: know classic American diner chrome long boomerang pattern for mich
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: account of the little jukeboxes. We love these and you
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: can join me here every Saturday where we talk about
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: whatever happens to spring into my mind at the moment.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: There's no predicting where it will go, except that it'll
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: be done in about thirty minutes. Join me, won't you
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: every Saturday from the Ricochet Audio network Ricochet. Yeah, join
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: the conversation.
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: About a month ago on Twitter, Kate Johnson, who we
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: had on the podcast, kind of sparks some controversy after
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: posting a photo of yourself how long postpinal? She's got
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: nine months postpass and I think, looking amazing and saying
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: kids don't destroy your body. And then it turned into
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: a whole crap show. So do you want to talk
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: about that?
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: I do so I one of my biggest frustrations, and
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Ali Beeth Stucky talks about this. Actually she and also
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: another woman I think I've mentioned her on the podcast.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: Horton Lane is what she goes by on Instagram. They
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: both whenever they post something, they're like, please do not
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: center yourself in what I am saying that. Therefore, like
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: I'm not speaking to you. I'm not saying to you, Kara,
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: you should be this at nine months. She's just saying
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: a general statement and if it doesn't apply to you,
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: keep scrolling. And so I felt like a lot of
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: the response to that was very personal and very very catty,
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: Like she doesn't She's not talking about every situation ever
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: forever more. If you, I don't know, if you had
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: a C section and then this and then that, like
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: then it doesn't apply to you, and you can just
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: scroll on. But the fact that so many people got
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: so upset, I think tattled on them more. It reflected
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: more on them than it did on Kate. I did
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: not look like that nine months after any of my children.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: It's because I'm uninterested. She clearly really enjoys exercising, and
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: she really wants that it's worth it to her to
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: spend that effort. Not really worth it to me, not
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: really interested in putting in the amount of work that
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: she does, and she's earned her gains, and I'm not
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: interested in those gains. I like a little bit of
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: flab and sleeping past when my children wake up, and
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: she wakes up early and spends her Sundays also doing
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: a lot of and I'm just wholly uninterested in doing that.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: And I was annoyed by their response because people just
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: center themselves way too much in how they see the world.
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: I just feel like it was a perfect kind of
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: overall thing for how everybody reacts on the internet about
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: anything to do with motherhood ever, because whenever you say anything,
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: it's always saying, oh, well, this was my experience. I'm
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: actually in a twice to fight right now with some person.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: I'm like literally responding to somebody fighting with them. I
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: need to log off, and I need to switch off
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: because I posted something about motherhood and somebody disagreed with me,
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: and I'm like, and I need to listen to my
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: own advice. But yeah, I think the postpartum discourse is
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: it's it's a tricky one because I know mothers who
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: have just had a baby and saw that photo of
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: Kate from what they oh, screw you, you know, it's
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: it's it's annoying in some ways to have to face
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: yourself and be like, oh, well, why don't I look
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: like that? Or like if you're in like the postpart
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: and kind of trenches and you see a post like that,
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: you're just like you need to log off, you know.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: But yeah, no, I think you're right. It tells on
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: them more than anybody else. I don't think Kate's intention
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: was to personally upset or annoy anybody, you know. It
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: was just kind of like a bit of puzzleivity, like, Oh,
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: you don't have to feel like this is going to
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: destroy you in any way.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and especially if that's what's important to you, like
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: it is to Kate, it likely won't destroy you because
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: you'll put in the work to look great again. But
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: I feel a lot of frustration with the discourse because
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: whenever you try to go positive, there's always those wow
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: And I'm meaning to write about this actually for the substack,
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: and I'm going to do it I think tomorrow or Thursday,
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: so by the time people listen to this, it'll be
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: up on the substack. Please subscribe. By the way, I
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: for the last ten years have been really really bothered
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: by the photos that people post of their daughters on
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: homecoming because I never dress that way, but I probably
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: did if we're just being honest. But if I did,
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: I had to sneak out of the house and change
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: into that outfit. There is no way a parent would
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: have taken a photo of me looking like that, purchase
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: to me that dress first of all, taking a photo
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: of it and posted it online with pride. You should
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: not be proud if your daughter is looking like she
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: should be walking the streets. And there is a real problem.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: And so I've been saying this for years. Also Halloween
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: this year, I know someone who posted a daughter a
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: picture of their twelve year old daughter in a corset
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: and a mini skirt, and another picture of their ten
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: year old in a tube top and a miniskirt. And
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: I have been saying this for years that I'm really
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: disturbed by the way that people are allowing their daughters
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: to dress and posting with pride how they're doing this.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: And I would get that, wait, wait, wait, when we
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: the naysayer people, wait until your daughter is that age,
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: and then you'll understand it's not that easy. And now
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: I have a twelve year old who actually just had
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: a bought mitzvah last weekend, and I can now say
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: with authority, no, you can. You can control how your
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: daughter dresses because you are the purchaser of the clothes,
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: and more importantly, you're the one inculcating their sense of
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: self respect and what is appropriate to be wearing. But
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: I got this with every single stage of parenting, every
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: single stage, the failures would naysay and they would project
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: their failure onto me, and then I would be like, oh,
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: I And I'm not saying that it's a failure or
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: a success to have a baby a certain way or
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: another way, because that really is up to chance. But
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: it started at at pregnancy and it's I'm all the
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: way through twelve and people said, you know, you're you're
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: toddler is going to be a nightmare, and like, yeah,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: it's toddlerhood, all fun and roses all the time. Yeah,
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: but how you see it impacts how your experience is.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: And with every stage, I was told you're never gonna
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: you're you're gonna want to send your kid to school
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: immediately after you start homeschooling. And my oldest is in
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: sixth grade, and I'm like, you really, you're good, right,
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: Like we're good here. We don't have to think about
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: school next year or the year after. And I'm just
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: I hate the people that project their failure onto you
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: when they tell you that something is miserable or something
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: is impossible.
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: So I have like an unspeakable take which I feel
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: like I can't say, but I'm going to say it.
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: I feel this so much about the anti sleep train
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: people where they're like, oh, well I tried, and like
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: none of my kids would be sleep trained and I
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: had to co sleep with them until they were all
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: twelve years old, because like some kids just do it
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: and some kids just so. And it's like, hmmm, what
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: is the chances that none of your kids will sleep
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: through the night and you've done nothing, Like you've probably
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: just dropped the ball somewhere and you should admit that.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: So we have insomniacs. A lot of them actually are
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: older too, are insomniac.
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: But like.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: You just kind of close the door and this is.
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: What I so, this is what I did. I just
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: literally yeah.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: So it's not I mean, especially once you get into
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: kid three, four, five, six, which is like you have
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: no choice about to close the door. There's too many
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: of them, and you have to help the other children,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: and so we didn't sleep train per se. We just
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: closed the door and wished them luck. And some children
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: have more luck than others. Yeah, my oldest kids are
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: total insomniacs. And we go to sleep. And this is
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: a fight that actually I have with Seth because he
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: feels uncomfortable going to sleep while the kids are still awake,
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, we can't sleep in. They can't let
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: them sit in their bed and be on their kindles
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: until midnight. I don't care go to sleep. I trust them.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: What are they going to do, like go out and
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: like go drag racing. They're sitting in their beds, watching
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: reading their kindles like whatever, and so I just I
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: don't think. I don't think it matters and write And.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: To go back to the homecoming dresses, Pop, I kind
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: of just feel like as well as you point that, like,
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: wear the dress whatever, but don't take a photo of
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: it and put it online. Because kids, teenage girls particularly
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: are going to go through a lot of different places
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: and they're gonna feel very differently about the outfit that
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: they wore ten years ago, you know, with a bit
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: of time, Like I look back at the photos that
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: I used to of stuff that I used to wear.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: I have photos with me that I was like eight
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: years old and I had huge hooper rings in it.
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: I called my mom, I was like, how did you
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: let me go out like this? So I feel like
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: you can just let them experiment with different stuff, but
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: maybe not posted all over the internet. And that's probably
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: but that's probably a generational thing as well. Like my
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: childhood was probably the first kind of generational thing where
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: my mom would put every single photo of me on
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: Facebook every day, you know.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: To which she did, yeah, oh yeah, you're that young,
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah wow, nineteen ninety eight. Yeah, baby, baby, baby. I
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: I'm so glad that all the stupid photos of me
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: are not on the internet. I mean, this is like,
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: this is part of my policy of rarely. So my
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: personal social media policy is I don't post their faces,
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: and I try to very rarely post them at all.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: I stick usually to stories on my Instagram which disappear
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: after twenty four hours. And I have a very hard
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: rule that I don't talk about them in specifics, in
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: any in any way that they might find objectionable. So
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: like if they have a medical thing, if if they're
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: going through like I think this was a big mistake
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: of the mommy bloggers. They would talk about like my
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: daughter got her period this week, like no one should
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: know anything not from like that super duper duper personal information,
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: to like me and my daughter had a fight today,
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: Like none of that is anyone's business, and they are
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: human beings who deserve privacy.
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: M h. Yeah, I think we forget sometimes, and not
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: we personally, but like just society. Yeah, the kids aren't content,
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: and as much as you want, like a sound inboard
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: for stuff, it's probably not respectful to post about your
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: teenage daughters tantrums on twist eight.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think also, I don't know if I've
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: told this story in the podcast. I don't think I have.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: One of my favorite memories of my mother ever, was
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: she was sitting around with a whole bunch of other
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: moms when I was young, I was like eight probably,
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: and everyone was complaining about their kid and doing it
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: very casually, and I sat there. I remember holding my breath, waiting,
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: what does my mom hate about me? My mom must
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: hate me because all these other moms hate their kids,
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: and what is my mom going to say about me?
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: And my mom was silent, and then someone put her
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: on the spot and they were like, Vira, what about you?
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: What do you hate about Bethany? And my mom looked,
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: looked at me and looked at them, was like, I don't.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: I don't think this is a respectful conversation at all.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: And I'm not I'm not dismissing or you know, belittling
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: my daughter in front of a whole bunch of people
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: who I barely know. And they all saw it as
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: like she's really judgmental, which she was. She was judging
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: what they were doing. It was nasty, and I remember
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: so vividly sitting there thinking, when I'm a mom, this
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: is what I'm gonna do.
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: Mm hmm. And this feeds so well into the fight
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: that I am in right now. On twist that started
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: from a tweet from one of my favorite accounts, a
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: niece not I don't know if you follow her.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: She's familiar.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: I'll send you the tweet afterwards. But she tweeted saying
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: the self proclaimed diehard liberal mama Dance Pass is always
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: bracing her six year old daughter almost every time I
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: see them. She is chewing that kid out in front
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: of everybody for the smallest infraction. And then looking at
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: the other moms to be like, oh my god, she's
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: so annoying. She reminds me so much of all the
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: other lib mums I know that like to performatively act
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: like their kids are horribly annoying. And I just read
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: a book written by the New York Times writer oh God,
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: I don't know her name right now, something common called
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: Unbearable about how about what It's like to be pregnant
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: in America? And it reminded me of that book and
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: all of the commentary going on around it, and I
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: think that it is just like a pipeline of people
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: complaining constantly when they're pregnant, and pregnancy can be really,
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: really hard. I'm not saying it's not, but I'm just
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: saying that, like, if you only talk about how miserable
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: something is, then you never even give it a chance
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: to like make you happy. And I think that feeds
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: on a pipeline from pregnancy to even pre pregnancy, even
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: like feeling embarrassed about the prospect of having children or
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: admitting that you might want to be a stay at
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: home mom. This is the conversations that I'm having now
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: with my liberal friends who don't feel it well to
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: say that they want to have kids, or say that
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: they might want to be a stay at home mom
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: or whatever. They have to like secretly admit it to
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: me the conservative and then it goes into pregnancy and
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: everything about how horrible pregnancy is, and then it follows
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: the kids as they go on. It's like, oh, toddler,
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: Toddler's is so awful. I saw this trend on Instagram
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: the other day where a kid's first birthdays should be
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: rebranded as the mum's celebration of the hardest year of
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: her life, and I was like, what, just light a
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: candle and get a cake, you miserable, miserable cow. You know.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think this is this is a
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: perspective that lot of unfortunately liberals like this. This is
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: this is coded blue and red, and it's it's it's
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: the complaining, it's the misery. It's always having to find
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: something to be upset about. I was pregnant at the
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: same time as my now best friend Mary Catherine Ham,
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: who I barely knew. I don't think we had ever
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: really had a conversation, but we were pregnant at the
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: exact same time, and she made like an oblique. She
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: was a month and a half ahead of me, maybe
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: two months ahead of me, and she had made like
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: a very oblique reference to being sick, and I contacted
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: her and I was like, I am pregnant also with
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: my first child, and I feel like I'm going to die.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: And we both so for her. She has four children
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: and I have six. Our oldest two children almost exactly aligned,
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: and our last two children almost exactly align. And so
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: we've been pregnant together four times, and we were each
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: other's sounding board, and we basically only talked to each
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: other about how miserable we were because we did want
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: it to become our entire identity and we wanted to
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: try to power through it. And it was funny, because
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: I mean not funny. This is not funny. There needs
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: to be a better word than funny for what I'm
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: about to describe. When she was pregnant with her second
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: her husband died in a horribly tragic bike accident. Not funny,
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: but it was funny in that we had bonded over
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: our first pregnancy because we both had this coping strategy
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: centered around amplifying our resilience, and so we used each
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: other to just vent and then we held it together
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: outside of our conversations together. When her husband died, I
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: thought to myself, oh God, I just lost my I
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: just lost my best friend, Like she's never going to
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: be the same.
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: And then she was.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: She was okay because those coping strategies that her impulse
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: to be resilient powered her through. And she's thriving now,
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: and she was thriving two days later, three days later.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: And I think that that pride and resilience and that
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: respect for resilience and that wanting to be resilient, that
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: goal has just completely disappeared on the left. Now it's
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: like amplifying your victimhood, like that's that is the ultimate
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: goal here instead of I'm really proud I got through
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: those hard things. That's not something that they say anymore.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: And it reflects in all of the data when it
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: comes to you look at the mental health of right
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: versus left.
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: Well, I think as well, an interesting thing is becoming
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: a mother just makes you a better, more resilient person,
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: which is why hopefully married Hafrenham got through what she did.
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: And like Brielle as well. We had Brielle on the
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: podcast and just like me, now I'm looking back at
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: my first pregnancy, and I'm like, oh, was it way easier?
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: Or am I just less of a whiny, whiny, annoying
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: person now who always focuses on the negative, you know,
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: because I've gone through this incredible change where I've been
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: forced to racking with myself and make all these changes
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: and become like a more capable person.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: But I think it's actually because you've had to learn
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: to decenter yourself and I. We're both only children, and
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: so this is something that I think was a learning
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: curve for us, especially because in a family with siblings
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: and with a dad or you know, two parents, whatever,
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: it is like, you do learn some of those like
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: decentering skills earlier than we did. But we didn't learn.
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: You know, I have always been the main character of life.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: You do me too. I had a cousin, I mean,
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: I still have a cousin. I haven't spoken him in
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: twenty five years, but I have a cousin that he
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: used to joke, and it was not a joke. He
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: was an only child. He would put his finger here
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: for anyone who's watching on our sub stack, you'll actually
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: see what I'm demonstrating. But he would put his finger
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: out and then he would say, this is the world,
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: and I'm sorry, this is Ryan. His name was Ryan.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: And then he'd move another finger around the circle and say,
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: and this is the world. And that was how he
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: would end every fight with his parents, that he was
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: the center of the universe. And I would laugh and
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: be like, it's kind of true, kind of true. It was.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: It was a world revolving around the situation, especially with
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: divorced parents, because they were fighting over my affection and
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: so it was like kind of a Branksmanship situation there
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: for a while. That was also very unhealthy. But as
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: a parent, I had to learn how to decenter myself
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: from and I'm not still I'm not very good at
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: I'm still a narcissist, but I'm better, much better.
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: Nick and I have both lived in cities and now
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: we've moved to the country and we're suddenly surrounded by
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: like we went to a Halloween party the other day
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: and everybody around us had six kids, and just like, nice,
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: pleasant conversation with competent people who are interesting and not
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: selfish and don't dwell even though they probably have a
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: lot to dwell on if they wanted, if they wanted
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: to let themselves do that. But like all of them,
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: all of their kids were kind of grown up. I
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: think the youngest was eighteen, and just talking about how
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: wonderful and messy and real like their lives were, and
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: we were like, oh, these people are great.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: You. So, for all of our longtime listeners, you all
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: know the ultimate actual goal of this podcast. It's not
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: it's not to be rich, it's not to be famous.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: It's for me to convince you to have I don't know,
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: just four or five six kids. That's it. Did that help?
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: Did that move the needle? So?
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: Nickis have I told you this? Nick has been interviewing
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: or potentially trying to get the services off. I'm not
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: sure it's planning, because he's the one that told me
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: that he wanted two kids, and then the other day
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: he's out an interview in like a kind of designed
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: baby ivy IF company, and now he's decided that he
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: wants to like science a third kid.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: No, yeah, that's no, that's kind of thing. No.
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: So halfway through this pregnancy now and a couple of
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: days ago he turned to me and was like, oh,
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: maybe we should have another one straight after this one
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: again and I was saying, Oh, you've changed your mind?
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: What's going on? And then he told me about this
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: whole Can we.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: Did we ever start the group text between us and
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: our husbands?
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: Do we have? Yeah?
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: We just have never once used it.
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: It's called the Claire Antell's.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: Oh that's right, we have. I second, I have to
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: start seating this a little bit.
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we are you going to have to convince him
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: to not have like a weird nugenics baby, because that's
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: what he's kind of set on right now.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: No, No, just just get accidentally pregnant. Just do it
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: the fun way, be done with it.
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, what has been nice about this pregnancy
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: is I think I would I think I would have
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: three kids. Mans, It's the number in my head right now.
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: So what my number was? What?
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: So every day that I'm pregnant, I'm like, Oh, I'm
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: the most I'm ever going to be pregnant. You know,
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: I've like I've hit the threshold of like halfway. I'm halfway.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: When I when I had my fifth I took a
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: picture of me and labor and I I did it
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: intentionally thinking this is the last photo of me pregnant ever,
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: And then I jinxed it. It jinxed it because my
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: sixth was a surprise. Oh my god, no, sos I.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: We had three and we had decided on three, and
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: then when Seth's grandmother was literally on her deathbed, she
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: asked us to have the No. So when the grandmother
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: was on the deathbed, grandfather asked us to have a fourth.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: And like, you can't say no to an eighty year
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: old man whose wife is dying in front of him,
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: So I instantly acquiesced. I was like, yes, we will
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: have a fourth, and I did and we did, and
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: then so we had four.
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: Is he still alive?
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: No?
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: No, did he made the fault? What did he meet?
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: The fourth? Yes?
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: It was so special. It was really, really really special.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: So we had the four and then we call number
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: four tricker baby because she was the easiest baby. Joke
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: was on us. So then I was like, all right,
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: let's squeeze out one more. And then we had number
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: five and then that was it. And then I got
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: pregnant again, and I'm so glad. This is actually what
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: spooks me about not having more. I'm done. I like
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: emotionally feel done, I physically feel done, all of those ways.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: Feel done. But there's this little nagging part of me
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: that is like, he wasn't supposed to exist if we
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: had gotten our way, and what were we thinking? King,
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: of course you want to be here, of course, Like
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: what would our lives be like with that? This perfect
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: little almost three year old person.
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, he's so cute as well, so cute
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: cute you read it.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: He's so cute, he's so sweet, And I like, that's
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: what makes me second guess because I'm like, if we
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: had had our way, he would not be here on
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: this earth. And God knew what we needed, and God
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: knew what the world needed, and I don't know, maybe
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: maybe we don't know, Maybe we're just dumb, dumb us.
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: So that's the only thing that makes me second guess myself.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: Hey, folks, James Lylac, you're reminding you this is November.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: Of course you knew that already, right, and you're a
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: little bit relieved because we've got some time before Thanksgiving
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: and Thanksgiving itself, it's just one day. There's no big
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: no songs, there's no gift giving all the rest of it.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: It's just eating its pie. It's football. It's great, it's fun. Hey,
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: but December is right around the corner, and that means
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: gift giving season, and that means you give somebody something
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: that they like, something they're going to enjoy. Is go
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: to enhance their life. Not a sweater, not a sucks,
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: not a gift getting out of a subscription to after
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: shave or Hot saus Get them Ricochet. The gift of
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: Ricochet will enable them to enter a community that will
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: speak to whatever they want to speak to and provide
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: them with a new set of friends at a fresh place
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: to go on the internet. So this November, do the
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: smart thing, well, you know, get Ricochet yourself, but then
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: think about getting it for a friend. Am I gonna
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: bug you about that next month? I am?
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: Okay. I wanted to say you break because I didn't mind.
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: I didn't want to just randomly switch to my pelvic floor.
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: But I kind of want to talk about my pelvic floor.
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: It's that, okay, Let's go for it. Because I've always
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: heard about like pelvic flol and palvic fool therapy with
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: pregnancy and stuff, and I feel like I know more
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: about it than the average pregnant woman. But I still
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: don't really know much about it because I just learned
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: in my abs a part of my pelvic floor, and
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: I feel like my abs have separated. And then I
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: asked my oguian and he was like, yeah, like one
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: hundred percent, that's what has happened, and we'll get you
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: through palvic floor training afterwards. So basically, like every time
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: I move now, my abs contract in a way that
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: feels so weird, and they feel like they're in like
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: really different places they're meant to be, like ones up
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: here and ones down there. So I've been freaking out
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: wondering what the hell is going on, and I never
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: connected it to my pelvic floor because when I think
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: of pelvic floor, I think of keegels vagina.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: As soon as you said pelvic floor, I started like
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: automatically doing kegels.
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: It was.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: It was spontaneous and not even I just started doing them.
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: Well because people always talk about pelvic floor and then
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: you kind of you mentally start doing them. So I
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: came out with my first pregnancy thinking everything was fine
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: because my palot what I thought was my palvic form,
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: my vagina fell fine. But it affects like all different things,
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: your abs, your posture, and now I feel like I
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: want to go through like an intense pelvic floor therapy
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: to get everything back in place.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: Can I go to a random place right now?
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: Did you hear about this was a very online thing,
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: which I remember that guest that we had that was
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: not online at all. What would my life be like
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: without being very online?
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: There was a pelvic floor therapist who wore a mask,
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: who was a man. He was a biological man, and
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: he went by like Jessica or something and was tricking women.
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: That is sexual assault.
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: I remember this. Wait, this was super recent that I.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: Was thinking about that. This is so random. I was
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: thinking about that last night as I was going to sleep.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: I was laying there thinking that guy was sexually assaulting
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: women by pretending to be a woman. That is such
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: a private Why was I thinking about pelvic floor therapy
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: at like midnight last night?
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: I love the fair enough the things that get they
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: get you riled up. We never know, But like pelvic
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: floor therapy, I don't know because I haven't done it yet,
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: but I think I'm going to do it after this
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: pregnancy because I just want to check everything, make sure
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: because apparently if you have ab separation, which I definitely
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: have now, I can feel it. You go through this
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: pelvic floor training and you get you try and get
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: them back together, but sometimes you need surgery to get
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: them back in the right place. So yeah, kind of
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: freaking out.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: Then I had some prolapse after my fourth was born,
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: and so I did pelvic floor therapy. I don't know
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: how helpful it was. Really, it did help me. It
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: did help me avoid surgery.
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: I did. Seems pretty helpful.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but I I didn't. I don't know. There's
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: some things that feel a little hippie dippy for me,
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: and pelvic floor therapy kind of straddles that a little bit. Yeah,
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I just I didn't. I don't know
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: that I couldn't have done that with keels at home, right.
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: But but so what I've been told by different people
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: like Douelers and oeguy Ns and stuff, is that people
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: over focus on kegels and sometimes you can over exercise that,
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: and that particularly before birth, women start like hyper focusing
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: on help on pelvic flooring keegeles, and it can actually
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: make birth more difficult because you've over used that muscle
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: and actually you want that muscle to be at a
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: kind of happy medium and not over worked.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: That makes sense, That makes sense. Yeah, you want things
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: to be a little loosey goosey down there.
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but I mean particularly before birth. Yeah, I mean,
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: and when I mean pervic floor therapy for me is
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: really interesting because in most European countries it is mandatory.
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: The therapy is mandatory after you give birth. Interesting, so
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: in places like France and I think Britain and a
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: couple other European countries. This is why I don't think
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: it's tape thepy I think it's just one of the
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: things that America is quite bad on.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: So part of the thing was I had a very
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: hard time finding someone.
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that could definitely.
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: So.
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: I was told after my first baby, buy my obd yn.
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: And they're very like they're girls girls. I like to
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: describe them as my my obgyan office is like, they're
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: really girls girls. They really want to help you, you know,
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: they really like kind and nurture and they're like all
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: older women. I love them. Anyway. They told me about
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: an app that you can get and it stands you
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: like a wand that you put up yourself and then
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: it breaks down for you what muscles are working in
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: what way and it's like tailored to you and what
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: muscles you need to work on.
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: Let's get them to sponsor the podcast.
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, what is that. I'm going to find out
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: who this is actually do that, because I thought that
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: that was great.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: That does sound great. I think on that note, I
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: think we're done here. Let's spit your water up, Mike,
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: my just one thing and then and then we're done.
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: Sometimes my husband's boss who used to be my boss,
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: who's like my my Jewish uncle from another lifetime, John
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: pat Harts, he listens to this podcast pretty frequently, and
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: sometimes when the conversation goes in this direction, I have
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: this little nagging voice in the back of my head
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: that says, John is listening right now, and it gets
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: in my head, I'm not gonna lie to you because
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: I forget that we're not just having a conversation entreneur,
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: like there's people listening, And for some reason, it really
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: gets in my head that John is listening.
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: Well, I didn't bring up hemorrhoids this time, so I'll
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: leave that.
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: He loves you. John loves you.
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: I know I love him too. I think he's great.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: Anyway, if John has gotten this far and no one
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: please no one tell John to listen to this podcast,
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: because I want to know if he came to it
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: on his own. So John, if you're listening, we love
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: you and I love you. What's what is the thing
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: I say at the end? I almost said stay smart
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: because that's what my whole podcast we used to say.
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: We're gonna have to change it.
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: No, I know, saddle up all right until next week,
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: leads us a review and that's it. That's all I got.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: Satellite Ricochet
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: Join the conversation.