Latest / Big Dog Lukie Boxing Podcast / Boxing Podcast:O'Shaquie Foster SHOCKS THE WORLD (and Emanuel Navarrete)

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Boxing Podcast:O'Shaquie Foster SHOCKS THE WORLD (and Emanuel Navarrete) · Big Dog Lukie Boxing Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: What's up, everybody?
• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's your good friend, Lukie, and I'm here with my co-pilot, co-host, Dakota.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: How are you living?
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing all right, my friend.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Excited to talk about a matchup that is actually meaningful to me for the first time
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: in a couple of weeks.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's pretty exciting.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's also occurring to me just how crazy I look right now,
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: but happy to be here with you, brother.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think anyone's got me topped on the crazy look.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I look like a Marvel character right now.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely had some soda pops after that win last night.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, for me, this validated what I've always believed.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't need to see it.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: But Oshaki Foster is one of the best fighters in the world.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think he's a top five fighter in the world,
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: excluding Inouye and Usyk who haven't retired, but they feel kind of done.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know,
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think that his resume has always been criticized and he took a lot of high risk,
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: low reward guys.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: And he's kind of the example of why he goes,
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: don't travel that path because you don't get credit.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: People pick your resume apart.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: And he goes in with a guy,
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Navarrete, who's made a career of beating up guys that people think could beat him.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean,
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: this fight was billed as a fight of the year,
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: and it was nothing like a fight of the year.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: This was, as you said, impressive AF, and it was as dominant as I've ever seen.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and listen, bro, you called this one perfect.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that there was some risk posed that Navarrete's unorthodox delivery and
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: the fact that he throws shit that a lot of,
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: you know, you wouldn't get taught that in the gym.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought that there was a chance that some of that could at least be
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: a style challenge for Jacques.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: I still thought that Jacques was going to win.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: What I didn't expect was that he would pick Navarrete apart in that way.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: And closed the show not just strong but by putting him down twice
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: and I think really hurting him and damaging him.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: And doing that to one of the best chins in boxing over the last decade or so.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was a brilliant performance.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's no doubt that he's in that pound for pound conversation at this point.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: And to me,
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: if you're picking apart his resume,
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think it just kind of shows your knowledge level.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe,
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: some of that is just not having seen the fights or not being able to appreciate,
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: you know, a lower mid-sized weight class.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think there is a type of fan that tunes out below lightweight.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: But if you know what you're looking at here,
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: you know just how special this was,
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: especially considering the career that Navarrete has had prior to this night.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: We've never seen him Dominated in this way.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it just was bell to bell.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, Navarrete made a real push even at the end of the fight in round 10.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: You saw him make his stand the way great fighters do.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: He stuck with it.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: And he was just completely outclassed.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: it was just a it was a special,
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: special performance from a fighter who has consistently delivered each
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: and every time.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Some notes I have.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Shaq kind of bullied him on the inside.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: He punched off the break big time.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: It looked like Navarrete was waiting for the referee to kind of be traffic cop
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: in this fight and to not.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: He wanted the referee to step in and say, OK, break and start up.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: And when he didn't do that, I felt like Shaq got a big psychological edge doing that.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: It was like smother and separate.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Smother and separate, but he was also it was like Josh Taylor versus Jose Ramirez.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: There was a level of discomfort of when do I punch?
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: When do I not punch?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: And shock was quick to punch.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he's quick to get active.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: The angles,
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: obviously something people always talk about,
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: but the ability to smother,
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: turn, reset and force Navarrete to have to do all that work again.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: The variety of styles pushing Navarrete back,
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: but then almost luring him to a false sense of hope and putting himself on
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: the ropes.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: I felt like he was looking for big right hands, one that landed at the end of the fight.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: But it felt like strategically he wasn't in danger from those shots.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: He was moving back to counterpunch with him.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: It felt like Navarrete didn't enjoy the aspect that Foster was willing to counterpunch with him.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: That he was willing to exchange with him.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: That he wasn't afraid of him.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like we saw that there's an element of Navarrete that likes going downhill
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: and likes guys thinking about the power.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Seemed like Navarrete underestimated potentially Foster's power.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: He was touching his nose a lot and that makes me think some shot landed
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: and it made him want to see how his nose was doing.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Those are just kind of the first things that stand out to me.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think the other thing is that, you know, Navarrete's power is real.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: We've seen that over and over.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: We've seen just how real that power is and it's delivered in a non-traditional way
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: that catches guys off guard.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it just looked like Shaq was completely prepared for that.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: And the second that Navarrete would get on the front foot himself,
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: then all of a sudden he's having to go find it when he was just getting beat up in
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: the pocket for 30 seconds.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: He basically just at every moment of the fight gave Navarrete what he didn't want.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: And there was elements of it that was like, it was kind of like Floyd, dude.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he just took a great fighter and just made him look so regular.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because at every second of the fight,
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: he was tuned into what this guy wanted to do and what he didn't want to do.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if Shaq didn't have kind of the hard luck record that he had,
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: he might get credit for that kind of performance.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that the issue is we live in a world where records matter.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like because he has two losses, people are going to be like, who's Samuel Taylor?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: He's got three.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: He's got three.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, because of the can say so.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like, you know, we talk about this all the time.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: We used to watch fights not that long ago and everybody had a loss
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: and you didn't even think about it.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: You were like, okay, you take fights, you lose.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's really since like 2009,
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Floyd really made that the thing was like, if you're a good fighter, you don't lose.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it kind of, Brought in this era of boxer that doesn't want to lose.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: They don't want their reputation damaged.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: And he's been the opposite of that.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: He's been a fighter like that era that we came up watching where part of how you get
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: to the position he's in is losing in the vast majority of cases.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: You don't really get to the top of the sport without having lost
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: if you're really pursuing that standings.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I wrote a story on the good fight this week.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: It came out yesterday.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think I sent it to you.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: The idea of it was...
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oshaki Foster without going through the piece and reading it line
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: by line is it's like his story is right place, right time.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like even when he went to jail,
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: it's like it probably was the right type,
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: right place,
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: right time,
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: because he probably needed that at that moment or else things would have got out
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: of control.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like he's one of these examples where, yes,
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: he's maybe a hard luck fighter to a certain extent,
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: but he's also a guy right place, right time.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: And this is the right place, the right time.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: And now he might be looking at being the fighter of the year.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: There's only two guys I see in that conversation.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's him and Neo Inouye.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think having had multiple performances of this quality,
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: especially in a low output year for every star in boxing,
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: it's like to me, it's almost inarguable.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: I could see someone giving it to Inouye because the Nakatani was
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: a major sensational win because it's something that we don't see in this era where
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: the legend takes on the young up-and-comer who looks to be taking his spot
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: and he gives him a chance.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: We haven't seen that.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't see Floyd really give the young guys a chance.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't see Canelo do it with Benavidez.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, if someone were to give...
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: In a way, the award, I wouldn't be mad.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: I just think that it would be pretty neat to see a fighter like Oshaki Foster
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: that really, I mean,
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: he's been promoted,
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: but he hasn't been one of these guys that you see on billboards per se.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: He's had to earn his spot in this sport.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't about,
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: you know.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but he treats it like a sport.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I feel like I'm watching a sport again when he's on and so much of boxing in
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: the current era doesn't feel like a sport.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: We were captivated.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: I was watching it with my lovely girlfriend and we said, man, we'd be boxing fans.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: If we got this every Saturday,
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: this is why you give so much of your life to boxing is this is
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: when it gets it right.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: And within, I remember within a minute and a half of the fight, I said, Shox got this.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's like the way he was fighting, he was too fast, too smart.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it just felt like Navarrete was frustrated by the second or third round
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: that he couldn't just do what he wanted to do.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And he looked uncomfortable.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: He looked like angry.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: He looked like, why is this so hard?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm supposed to hit you and you're supposed to not enjoy this and I'm supposed to go downhill.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: And even on the occasion when he did land, it really didn't make a dent.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was the one thing I do want to notice is something that stood out
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: to me was Navarrete wasn't really sweating during the fight.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that, you know, that's the cut?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's possible.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't notice that specifically.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe it was just because he was performing so well,
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: but he definitely I get the feeling we're at the end of the line for
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: that weight class, I would think.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, to me,
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: even though I saw that,
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: this version of Navarrete has been the guy that's beating guys.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is not, Shock didn't do this to like, oh yeah, he got old overnight.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: No,
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: this is the Navarrete that throws those wild punches and beats the hell out of guys
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: and catches guys and stops them.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: He was sensational in his last fight.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: It was one of the better performances of his grade.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: It was against Nunez, right?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he beat the crap out of him, and it was a very similar performance.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was tremendous.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think that it's a tough win to pick apart,
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: and I know Navarrete's had a lot of fights,
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: but he's about the same age,
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: and he has looked great himself really since the Baronchek fight.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it was since the...
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: I don't remember what the last, but he looked great in the Valdez rematch.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: He's had great performances since that Baron Chick fight.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, he's just, I think that we talk about fighters.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: I talk about Teofimo Lopez as an inconsistent fighter.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think...
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think Navarrete is like a sneaky,
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: inconsistent fighter because the power always bails him out.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: But there's definitely like he gets motivated for some fights and it seems like he's flat.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: This felt like he was motivated.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I think that Oshaki is a star now.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: He's a real star in boxing.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: He's someone that, you know, hopefully he can go after the undisputed.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: You got Lomachenko back.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe he could fight Loma.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, bro.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was going to bring that up, too.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if Loma Chan,
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: he says he's coming back at 130 pounds,
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think he wants to make a run again where he's actually fighting guys his size.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: He wants to be undisputed.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Loma wants to come back for undisputed.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it does also,
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: with the guys at 130, these are, you know, 130 kind of exists as a sport still.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Lightweight.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: There's all this bullshit.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: And the guys are naturally bigger than him.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: And he did it because he was so dominant in his era.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: I want to see Lomachenko back once before he gets into a fight like that,
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: just to see if it's the same guy.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: But man,
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: if he could get a get back fight,
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: it seems like shock is either going to fight Charlie Suarez or he's going to fight
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: the winner of Sakache and whoever the fuck Nick.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: He's fighting Nick Ball.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good fight.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it sounds like he wants one of those fights.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: But man, shock and Lomachenko.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: If Loma is still the same guy,
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: if he's still got the juice that he had against George Kambosis,
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: that's a great fucking fight.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: I just feel like when guys are off and they kind of retired and they come back,
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: it's hard to get back to that place you once were.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because it just feels like you mentally kind of maybe thought something.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's another one where people would say it's a 50-50 fight and
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: then shock would do this all over again.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: And people would be like, whoa, I can't imagine.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's weird.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think you make a great point.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: But if it's the Lomachenko from 2024, that guy's got a shot, I think.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that's a great fight.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Look, I'm as big on Loma as anybody.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think Loma's one of the best fighters of his era.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying I've never seen that story where guys are out two years,
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: possibly retired, and then come back, and then it goes well.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't seem to be a good narrative.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Probably not.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's also, I think, rare that we see that from a grade of an era.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's like once they're done, they kind of cut it off.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: He's had a lot of injuries.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that maybe that's something that could be in the mix.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's the undisputed.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think deep down, he was a guy that wanted to accomplish things that people didn't do.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: And he felt that he won the Haney fight and that would have been the undisputed title.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that mentally broke him a little bit.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that now he looks at this division and he doesn't see a guy there
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: that he's like, okay, this is a division I could re-enter in.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I could maybe one or two fights.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: I could go for Undisputed.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe I can actually make the fights.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not like I'm not going to be fighting the concept of Tank Davis on the Internet.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think he knows the fights are makeable.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think he looks at any of the guys and goes, okay, this is an unbeatable force.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think he looks at guys and says,
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: in my prime, I could have beat these guys pretty easily, I think is what he thinks.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then he looks and goes, even with what I got right now, I probably beat most of these guys.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: I just think those years away, you don't feel it until you feel it.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: You've been out for a while.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: You go back.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: You think that you're doing good,
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: and then you get in the fight,
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: and then Shock's like a step ahead of you, and you're going, wait, what's going on?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's the story of Shock Foster's career.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: He beats a good fighter.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: People talk about how good he is.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: You put him in with another good fighter, and people talk about how it's a 50-50 fight.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: And at this point, like Shock versus Lomachenko is not a 50-50 fight.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's an advantage Shock-Foster fight,
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: but people are going to talk about it like it's a 50-50 fight.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's part of what motivates him
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: to have such great performances is he doesn't get the praise other fighters.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like he's having to do much more than this current generation has to do as a boxer
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: to build a legacy.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: And he still doesn't get the credit.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's what motivates and drives him.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's a 50-50 fight by any means, but it's compelling.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's even more compelling should Lomachenko get a quality win in the interim.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk a little undercard.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: You ready to go undercard on this card?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: Hell yeah, Bubba.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: What stood out to you?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: What stood out to me?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um...
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: You want to just start from the beginning?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, maybe I missed something prior,
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: but I thought Scooter Davis had a pretty good performance.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: I was going to go the opposite
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: because I think Chop Chop Albert Chop Chop Gonzalez looked sensational.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: He stopped Eddie Vasquez.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Durable guy.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Eddie kind of jumped on him early.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: It seemed like he wanted to set a tone real quick.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know,
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: the thing about Chop Chop that was crazy about this performance was his ability
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: to roll with punches and his ability to have comfort and trust catching
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: and shooting.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's like I'll talk about this.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: It kind of blends in.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like to me, Chop Chop Gonzalez does what Frank Martin, I think, wants to do.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: Frank is starting to turn into a catch-and-shoot guy who's got some speed,
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: but he feels more like a catch-and-shoot fighter who believes in his power.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: To me, Frank is kind of caught between two identities.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: Is he a boxer?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Is he a banger?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it feels like now he's like a whatever weight class he's in version
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: of Callum Smith is kind of what I see Frank Martin as.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: He's going to react and punch.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: He's a puncher with good boxing ability.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like the boxing ability is starting to become the second thing,
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: and he's starting to become more of,
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a puncher,
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to catch and shoot you,
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to walk to you, and I'm not seeing as much of that boxing.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not seeing him control the distance as much or set traps.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm seeing more of I'm the imposing force.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to impose myself on you,
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: which I think we've kind of seen that him get away from the boxing
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: since leaving Derek James is like an observation I've noticed.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas with Chop Chop,
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: I know he can box and he's boxed in performances,
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: but he's it seems like his natural style is to get in the pocket,
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: to be comfortable, Catch punches on his elbows or his arms and fire back.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: And for him to catch Eddie Vasquez with a shot to the body and put him down for the count.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that was an impressive, impressive performance.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: He's a lot like Bam.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think he's got a lot of similarities to Bam where the ability and the technique,
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: you know, again, another Robert Garcia guy.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it makes sense.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: But his ability and his technique is so.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Pristine,
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: but it comes with a level of aggression and physicality and accuracy that even
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: a quality fighter like Vasquez just couldn't stand up to.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: he made a good stand in that first round,
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: but I think he overshot it and was a little too,
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: he got a little too comfortable trading too early,
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: not really understanding, you know, the firepower he was in.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean,
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think he's looking like someone that it would be a shame if he's not
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: a world champion.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: He looks like he could contend for a belt right now.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think against most of the champions, I'd favor him.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Wasn't there some kind of regional something or other on the line here?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there were regional belts on the line, but it's like he's got to
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: be ranked then.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's like basically right up there.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like he's one, I'd say he's like without looking at the ring, he's a top five guy.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: He should be in the thing.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like when you look at these,
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: the featherweight division,
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: first off, the guys don't fight that often in this division.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: And second off, what he does is a big problem.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: And especially if you're coming off inactivity.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: So
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: For me, Chop Chop really stood out as,
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: and then there's another thing for me,
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: is Chop Chop feels like someone that could main event a card.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: He's got a big personality and he feels like he's at home at the top.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: Lukie, I feel dumb for asking this, but what weight does he fight at?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: 26.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: So he's at featherweight.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, he's a big guy for that weight.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, featherweight is such a fucking dud right now.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to see him up in that 130 mix.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, imagine him in shock a year or two down the line.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: What a fight that would be.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's just having to restart the show because I only tuned in.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: If anyone at...
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: If anyone is at the loose tight end tonight,
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Tiago Maksunja versus Kakandi is live on DAZONE today,
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: potential club show fight of the year.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's a banger of a fight too, by the way, because that's like...
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: This is why I love being here, bro, because that's such a deep cut.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know what the fuck that is.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's my guy Tokers.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: We do the Tokers show every now and then.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: It gets dark because we just start talking about fights.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a deep cut boy too, bro.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: I've been spending all week watching old deep cuts.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then you come on this show and you're like, what are we doing?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: We're going even deeper than me, dude.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it goes crazy.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: But he's got good deep cuts on the world level.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like when I was a kid,
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: the deep cuts were regional and there isn't as much of a regional scene,
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: but it was like if in 2006 you had made Demetri Salida and Edgar Santana,
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: that would have been like my Spence Crawford, you know?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that last night there was a good regional cut.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: Jaihe Brown versus Anthony Vietera on Nolan Brothers.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was a 10-rounder.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: It was a rematch.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's a pretty good fight.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: DeLuca in Brown's corner.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: Brown gets the win.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think that stuff is so important for boxing, like the little regional...
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, animosity fights,
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: but on this card,
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: like I gave my thoughts on Frank,
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think you,
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think you said in a text to me,
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: look good today or look good tomorrow, uh, win today.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then he gets the knockout,
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: but it was a pretty, um, the temperament of Frank Martin in this fight.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't love because it felt like a guy who's going to get outboxed.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: Essentially felt like a guy who's a little too confident going forward.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: And with Derek Scooter Davis,
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: Scooter is a good fighter,
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: but there's something that's glaringly obvious to me about him.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: He moved up to eight rounds.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: He had 10 straight knockouts.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: Now he has three straight decision wins.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: That jump in opponent caliber from six to eight rounds is a different tier
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: of opponent to be sanctioned.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, don't rush.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he needs...
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: He can't just overpower these eight round opponents.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you can't just have hand speed.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: You can't just be the more athletic guy.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: You can't be the stronger guy.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: He's having to learn some stuff before he graduates this tier.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I wouldn't say he's hitting a ceiling, but it's showing that he's not.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: He has to learn a few things like and it made me think about how like Oftentimes
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: in this era or maybe the stereotype of this era by old guys like me is
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: that everyone wants everything now.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: They want a college education now.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: They want the good job now.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: And they want a bypass experience.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like for me, Davis and obviously Brad and Bruce, good matchmakers, top rank.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: You can't buy experience.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: And there's nothing wrong with needing experience.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, he needs...
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, three, four more eight-rounders to get where he wants to go.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I think he looks fine, but I also wanted to point out that, like, you can't rush experience.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: And he's a young guy,
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: and it looks like he's hitting that point where he's fighting those durable guys
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: that are fine dealing with what he brings.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't have any problem watching a young guy go rounds.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's not disappointing to me.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: As you move up in levels, I feel like that that's a natural...
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: And he was hitting that guy clean.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think he just learned the lesson that there are guys that don't just go down
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: when you crack them good, you know?
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Look, I'm the same as you.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: I just wanted to point it out, you know?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to say about Frank too,
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: like
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: the puncher thing, you know, when he fought Rivera, he was so dominant.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like he really gave a boxing lesson.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: And That was a sensational stoppage he had last night.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: But he really like bailed himself out.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: It felt like he was just waiting.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he was waiting in the pool.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: He wasn't really like swimming like that.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: And the power bailed him out.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, that's great.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's like I said yesterday when I say it's like when today look good tomorrow.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: And he turned it into a look good today.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's something to that.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: But as he moves up in levels again and gets back to the top,
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: bro, you can't just like, you can't just wait, bro.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I'm saying?
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's really going to catch up to him.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, to me,
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: the best performance was his performance against Michelle Rivera,
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: and that's the fighter I want to see from Frank.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said,
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: it's like he's got a little bit of that just Arthur Abraham walking to you now.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't see that guy that was like the
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: elusive.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: And some of it, too,
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: is just like waiting, not the waiting part where you're treading water, but waiting.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: He's just sort of looking.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: He's doing a lot of looking.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: He's doing a lot of backing up.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: It just doesn't look coherent.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so if he was transitioning into a puncher and it looked coherent,
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a different thing.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's,
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: the big takeaway,
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: Derek James pretty good at getting the most out of certain guys, right?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, I think that when he was fighting with Derek, he did look great.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that even in the tank fight, there was really elements of a great fighter there.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: And he still has the the champions like he still has the champions heart
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: where it's like it's not really going my way.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: I've sparred this guy, you know, some of my tricks, you know, I'm losing a couple rounds here.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: This is a close fight and I still got the job done,
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: you know, but like it's just not really coherent.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's an onion to be fair.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody had, like, Tiger, Johnson, and Polanco had fought him, and they didn't stop him.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: But Zananyan is a guy who,
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: typically is an avoidant fighter,
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: typically is kind of like a runs-around-the-ring guy, you know?
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I haven't seen him before, you know?
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: I thought he stood as great.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: He was a rangy guy.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: He was pretty tricky himself.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: Again, they kept mentioning that they had sparred, you know, and so...
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes when you fight a guy you sparred,
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: they just know certain shit about you that an opponent that's figuring you out on
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: the fly won't know.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: To me, what I saw was It looked like Frank had a lot of success when they sparred
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: and he was waiting for something to happen and
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: that sparring actually like I didn't take as much as like they know what he's going
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: to do.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: It was as much as it looked like Frank had done well sparring him,
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: but was waiting for something to appear
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: and it almost didn't appear like it looked like he was confident.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I know what this guy does.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: Let me do this.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: And Yeah,
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that like obviously at certain levels sparring matters like
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: if you've sparred a guy.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: But sometimes sparring is an illusion because some guys spar really bad.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: Some guys spar different and you get in there with them and they're a different guy
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: and you're waiting for things.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't mesmerized by performance.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't you give your thoughts on Chop Chop?
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, dude,
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think he's one of the best fighters out right now,
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: in terms of especially young American fighters,
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: you know, where our guys are a tough hang right now, dude.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of our guys are a tough hang.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: And Chop Chop, like Shock Foster, just kind of gives you what you want as a boxing fan.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: He's a young guy taking tough fights and checking every box.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: He's not cringy.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: He has an aggressive, fan-friendly style.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: He's a guy that can like Bam, who swims without getting wet, like Lomachenko.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that he's in a what-not-to-like situation.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: I wish that Espinosa...
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: Wanted to make good fights.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: I wish that the guys in that weight class were like making fights,
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: but I think that he's going to have a really hard time getting
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: the dance partner down there.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I hear you.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: He's just a beast.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, do you think Espinosa would go any,
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: like, I don't really understand what that guy's doing anyway.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we'll get to Espinosa, but Espinosa's Dalton Smith fights Albert Puello.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: He wins a split decision.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it's pretty much like the fight I kind of expected where
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: it's like...
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: I thought Puello won a 115-113 fight.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not angry that he didn't win the fight because Puello has this habit of kind
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: of irrational confidence when he's winning a 55-45 fight.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: Not a ton of urgency from him,
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: from a fighter who is the definition of a high-risk, low-reward fighter.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: He has to rely on sanctioning bodies to give him High ratings to put him in position
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: to kind of get these fights because he doesn't have that scintillating style,
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: maybe doesn't have the biggest fan base.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: He's just a practitioner who knows how to win a fight.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know,
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: it was it was not it was not a fun hang because what Puello is capable
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: of doing is he's very crafty, he's very tricky.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: But he's very patient and he's very willing to just you go,
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: I go, let's turn this into a point fight battle.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: I thought he was tagging Smith a good amount.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: Smith,
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: it's like my fear has always been how good is Smith because Smith has a little bit
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: of that.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: I want to stand in front of you and punch you.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: And when you do that, it's a little scary.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: And what I mean by scary is not just scary for your opponent,
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: but it's scary in terms of your development.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: Can you handle a mover?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: If you're someone that wants to trade and throw heavy shots,
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: et cetera, typically you need a few things.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: You need to know how to cut the ring off.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: A tricky setup to maybe if the guy's faster than you,
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: you can, you know, timing beats speed typically.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: So you can time guys and walk them into shots.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: And in this fight,
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think it kind of revealed to me my big fears about Dalton Smith,
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: where my guy Declan Warrington hit it on the head.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: He said, man, this guy could be a star for Matt Troom.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's really important that he wins, especially with Joshua at the end of his career.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Katie Taylor just retired.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Matt Troom's going to need some guys.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: And here's this guy,
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: hometown defense,
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: probably the worst guy you could fight in your hometown defense,
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: wins a split decision.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I think there's real reservations around...
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: What the future holds for Dalton Smith because,
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, because there's two ways to look at this, right?
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: Puello beat Gary Antoine Russell, right?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: No one sat around talking about, oh man, Gary Antoine Russell, he did this or that.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, Smith should be in the conversation for fighter of the year.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: He should be up there with Oshaki Foster because he knocked out Sabril Matisse.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: Then you go and fight Albert Poel.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: These are two credible, long reigning, long, long relevant guys.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: And Poel's only loss is to Matisse.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't think Matisse or I didn't think Poel lost that fight,
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: you know.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then in this fight, like,
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: Poe could be an undefeated fighter, although I thought Sandra Martin beat him.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: And who knows where Sandra Martin is now.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not like he's undefeated, right?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: He's gotten, you know, a good one here or there.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I think what it does for me is like the performance was not the foster performance.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: It didn't leave you in awe.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: It didn't leave you stunned.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: It left you going, ah, man.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, man, there's still work to be done.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like you see the talent,
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: you see the capabilities of Dalton Smith, but you also have that reservations.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: You have the fears around what, you know, what could a bad night for Smith look like?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think on a night where Foster separated himself and said,
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a pound for pound talent,
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: Smith kind of showed he's a world champion,
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: but he's more so a British world champion.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: And there might be some fears around Competing at the world level,
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: especially against a certain style of fighter.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: So Dakota's still away.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm going to also talk about Giorgio Vasoli taking on Maxi Hughes.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: Giorgio Vasoli, obviously a very, very good fighter.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: A fighter I'm excited about because he's multifaceted.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: He's got a lot of different things he can do.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: He's moving quickly.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: That said,
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: this reminded me of the Scooter Davis fight where it's like Vasoli's on the cusp
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: of maybe a title shot right around there.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: And here comes Maxi Hughes, you know, a guy known for, you know, giving guys tough fights.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: Majority decision.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: I thought Vasoli just edged it, 96, 94.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: But it's not that glowing endorsement that you want for a shiny prospect,
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: a young, bright-eyed person going to that next level.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that's an issue, right?
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's like once you step up to a certain level, you can't step back.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the big thing with Vesoli is I left this fight more impressed
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: about the ability of Maxie Hughes to reinvent himself than I did about Vesoli
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: and his career trajectory going to a title.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: It felt like Scooter Davis where...
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: I left saying, okay, experience is needed.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: You can't buy experience.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: I left this fight with Hughes saying,
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: okay, Hughes just taught Vasoli a valuable lesson that you can't buy experience.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then on the undercard, I think Shannon Ryan is a star.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think she has real star potential.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: She obviously had lost to Emma Dolan in the past.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: Emma Dolan got absolutely obliterated by Irma Garcia.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's her name.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: Let me make sure because that would be horrible if I mispronounced her name
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: and I could totally see myself doing that.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: I want to fact check that because she got obliterated on an MVP card.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: She got stopped.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: Rather quickly, her two losses now stop Irma Garcia.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: So she she beat Shannon Ryan.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: Ryan now has she had beat her.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Then she goes fights.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: Irma Garcia gets stopped.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: She gets stopped in 45 seconds or 46 seconds.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: Shannon Ryan stops her.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think Shannon Ryan has an Alicia Bumgarner like crossover ability.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think she could be a superstar.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: She's got four out of her last five wins or knockout wins.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: She looks physically strong.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think she's someone that in 2027,
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: if you could buy stock and fighters,
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: I would not be shocked if she's someone that elevates and becomes someone
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: that you're seeing more of.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: That was the performance of the night with Shannon Ryan.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's always questions about her or at least to me is like,
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: you know, obviously she has a big social media following.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, she looks pretty good.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: But does the talent component match the boxing skills?
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because I believe she started boxing in 2018.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: She did Taekwondo, went to the Olympics, but it was like she kind of converted to boxing late.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: And in this fight,
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: it's like she's fighting kind of the boogie woman,
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: the person that had beat her in her career.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, she obliterates her.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: Less than a minute to knock her out,
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: albeit Irma Garcia had probably done a lot of damage to Dolan.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that when you have this type of performance and you stand out more so
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: than the men, to me,
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: I left saying, okay,
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: Shannon Ryan's like a fight or two away from being like really, really in the mix.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: Great job with Lukie's British Boxing Corner.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: Did you have any thoughts on Dalton Smith, Puello?
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't see it, brother.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's okay.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's okay.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I did that whole segment myself.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you nailed it.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I nailed it.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: So now let's go to our final segment.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that's going to be like – I guess I'm going to go on a rant here.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll go –
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's this week as as of right now, we've got Canelo versus Christian and Billy.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's happening in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, there's unrest over in the region.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of already some boxing people have arrived.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't fully feel comfortable telling people who's over there just because like,
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think that the confusing nature of this fight week and it's hard
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: to treat this fight week as a regular fight week and look at the boxing.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's so multifaceted, right?
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: There is unrest in the region.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: How much of me being an American and not understanding the region,
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: is that just my not understanding of how Saudi Arabia works
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: in terms of events or
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: in terms of day-to-day living?
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: Is this just my bias and inability to understand the region and I'm coming at it
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think that there's going to be a lot of takes on this from people
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: that aren't polyscience majors.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think those are the people that should be really weighing in on this
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: because it's like a geopolitical conflict.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: This is the type of things presidents typically deal with.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: But.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: Most if all, if not all, the sporting events are.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: Have been postponed in Riyadh with the exception
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: of Canelo Alvarez who's fighting Christian and Billy as of now on Halloween
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: in Riyadh.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: Undercard is strange because it's like it just feels like,
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: you know, we had Lorenzo Parra fighting Rafael Espinoza on the Undercard.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: Now there's just some other guy who's fighting who knows who it is.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: Jaime Munguia is fighting a guy I've never heard of instead of Beck the Bully.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then Lindolfo Delgado, we heard from Robert Garcia.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: They haven't even gone to Saudi Arabia.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: No one from the team has left.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: They said that Robert Garcia said that they don't have flights or tickets to go over there.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: So like, do you trust that Lindolfo will be in a title fight for that vacant belt?
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't fully trust it because it's Sunday right now.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when's he going to get there?
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: When's he going to get acclimated?
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: So Arthur Bereslinoff is out there, I believe.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: But it's strange because the...
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like boxing about this.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: You can get hurt in boxing, right?
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's obvious.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: You can get hurt.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't think...
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's like an action movie or a movie in general.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think people should be harmed in the making of a movie.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't necessarily understand the circumstances or situations around it.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: But what makes this fight week uncomfortable is I tune into boxing to escape
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: the realities of my own life.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: I tune into this magical world where these gladiators and warriors fight each other.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: To determine who's the best and in the best version of this sport,
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: it's unpretentious and it's wonderful.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: And this fight week,
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: I can't help but wonder and look at this current economy,
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: looking at people's faces when I go out lately
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: and how they feel they just look tired and run down.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: And this big fight week,
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: which Canelo fight weeks are typically celebrations of the sport of boxing
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: that introduce new fight fans.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's sadly a reflection of where we are in the world and what's going on in
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: the world is that there's a lot of unhappiness and there's a lot of uncertainty.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I just hope that the fight,
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: if it goes on, it goes on responsibly and that people are taken care of.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: But it makes me think about things deeper than boxing.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I don't absolutely
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: love that.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: But we've been having to think deeper than boxing now for years,
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: really since the Saudi government involvement in the sport.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think you have to have a poli-sci degree to understand that there is
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: a war going on amongst multiple nations.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to understand why.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's elements of it.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: As a relatively informed person that I understand, then I probably understand just a fraction.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I know that it's happening.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that, frankly, it just speaks to the repulsive greed that has infiltrated our sport.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it upsets me that Canelo Alvarez is a part of that as one of the greats
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: of his era and is kind of the last of a certain type of fighter.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: But that's the reality of the situation.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that the Saudis and frankly,
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: Zufa Boxing's presence has forced us to think about those things
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: because they are government entities.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: They are political entities.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: Dana White threw a fight on the White House lawn.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: So it's again, I've said this before, it's not Dakota and Lukie making it political.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: There's things way bigger than us making it political.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said, boxing is often for guys like us served as a space away from that.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: Boxing reflects life.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's elements of that that are always mixed in.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: But not like this.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: Not when you have somebody with a government title in a foreign country
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: that makes major decisions in our sport and has become a power broker.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: Not when you have essentially the American sports minister promising
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: to put everybody out of business.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's not normal.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's new.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: That is definitely new.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think the other thing too is boxing has always been about the money.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: But then it hasn't been because it's always been like in house greed.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: So it's always been like one promoter wants to keep it and There was always like fear.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: If we cross promote, we won't make as much money or we might be weakened.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then there was just enough money where everyone played together for a little bit.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then that little bit of time almost weakened the whole industry
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: because it's like guys forgot how to run shows the way they used to.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: The money dried up.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: And now we're looking down an impactful fight card.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: Say what you want.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: This is a possible changing of the era.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: And Billy is a real live guy in this fight.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: And Billy could beat Canelo.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't, I'll spoil.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think he will.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think Canelo is going to win this fight.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: But like my guy, Boxer at Gray on X says, let's stop believing in 2016 fighters.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Canelo is more of a 2016 fighter than he is a guy of this era.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know,
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is an interesting fight,
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: but the sad thing to me is we have to contextualize what's going on.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: We have to contextualize how people are getting there.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: And when we start to break down the fight,
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: the fight's not as interesting to me as just wondering if people I care about in
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: the region are okay.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and all of that,
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: the same week that Shakur Stevenson leaves Zufa Boxing without ever having a fight
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: because he can't get the same money that Conor Benn gets to get knocked out
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: the second round in a fight he's way fucking overmatched to be in.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that's what's so refreshing about the Shock Fosters and
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: the Chop Chop Gonzalez's of the world is that when we have what feels like
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: an old school top rank card,
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: That then becomes a distraction for me from what the rest of
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: the sport has actually become, which is actually quite ghoulish.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean,
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think really boxing has become less interesting to me when Top Rank lost
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_01: the ESPN deal because they gave a real hardcore boxing fan a product
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: that was really fun to watch.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of what it felt like last night, bro.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: I felt like they finally put one on for me, you know?
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: My guy, Rob James, good evening from Leeds, England.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: Connor Ben will fight Eubank in a trilogy.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that's fine because like those two are meant for each other.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: The problem with both Eubank and Ben is when they fight world class guys,
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: they don't look world class.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: So when they fight each other, they've given us two fun back and forth fights.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it really means a lot to the British fans.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's a double win where you get a sneaky fun fight.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: And for the British fans that are invested in both fighters, it's a really fun fight.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: The problem with Ben is when he tries to fight world class guys,
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: he's just going to be a step behind.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: He doesn't have it.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: And Eubank is just, I think, an underachiever.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: He never quite could get to that level, we hope.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I think it's too late.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, his era should have been like 2018, 2019.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: He's an older fighter.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe even earlier, you know, I think he had his shot when he fought Saunders.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I felt like maybe that was his moment.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: Feels like he's an older fighter and it feels like Conor Benn is just kind of
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: a limited run at you guy where if his power isn't like going to change things
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: or his physical, physical size, He doesn't really have a plan B.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: Or unless he's got the right cocktail going.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, it's frustrating.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: So before we get out of here, let's talk about Canelo and Billy.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: Stylistically, what do you think?
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: It is a big fight.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: There are people tuning in.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: There's people that don't.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: Don't want the context.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: Probably if I was a consumer of this show, I wouldn't want the context.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: I just would want a boxing breakdown, which,
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_01: boxing is becoming less and less interesting for me to talk about
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: because we started this show, you and me, because I didn't get enough boxing talk.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_01: It was always situations and negotiations,
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: and I just wanted the X and O's and people talking fights and stuff.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so what's your feeling on this matchup?
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: I actually love the style matchup.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of the style that Canelo's always performed pretty well against.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a guy that's going to come right to him.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_00: He's not going to have to go find him.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think at this point in his career,
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: guys like William Scull and movers are always going to give him problems.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's a style that can help what he has left in the tank look good.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's the right style matchup,
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: not just for his whole career,
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: but especially right at this moment that I think he's really got a chance
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: to look spectacular again.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: But I also see a world where and Billy is just too young,
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: too hungry,
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: too motivated,
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: has too much of an engine for Canelo to fight at the old man pace
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: that I think he is more comfortable with at this point.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a few beats that I want to talk about for this fight.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: To me, it's like how... What's the pace in Billy's going to be comfortable setting?
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because you hit something that...
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: This is old man Canelo, and Canelo does not want to fight.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think he's still great, by the way.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't say that as a he's washed up, but fighters have phases of their career.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: He's not 2017 Canelo on the back foot against Golovkin with the beautiful head movement.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: He's not even 2022 Canelo,
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: you know, breaking Billy Joe Saunders eye socket and knocking out Caleb Plant.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's a new thing.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that guy's still very hard to beat, but it's a different guy.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'd say there's not the same urgency.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: He fights kind of like the money he's been paid, right?
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_01: He fights like a guy that has some comfort.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: The big story to this fight to me is,
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: and Billy's going to come forward and Billy's going to punch.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: What does Canelo's power do to him, Billy?
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because it seems like in Billy...
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_01: Probably will get dropped,
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: but if he does not get dropped or respect Canelo's power,
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: this is going to be a weird fight.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, and again,
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think for Canelo,
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: it's either going to be a guy that's a brilliant boxer or a mover that's going
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_00: to give him problems,
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: or he's going to find a guy that,
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: like I said,
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: wants to fight at a pace that at this point in his career is just too uncomfortable.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think the fight itself is a really interesting fight in the sense
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: that people have taken Canelo,
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_01: and I know you haven't,
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: but a lot of writers have taken Canelo off their pound-for-pound list,
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: and Canelo's slowly not had the same impact.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: Recently, you know, the William Skoll fight, I think, went unseen by a lot of people.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: see it.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: Again, you know, it's two fucking paywalls.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_00: And again,
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: that's another piece of the conversation that we seem to have to have over and
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: over again is that the zone price just went up to $35 a month.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: And this card is on a pay-per-view in a war zone.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's just not pretty.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's, yeah.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's just a lot of, there's a lot to unpack here.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean,
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: with me,
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: with the thing with the zone,
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_01: it's like,
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_01: there's not a lot of I feel for this fight,
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: it's like you were not getting like there was a delay in the Foster Navarrete fight
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: and we don't we don't have like a Canelo in the gym.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: This fight, you know, he's getting back to the roots.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's like we're not getting like I'm a sucker.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'll buy a pay-per-view if you give me a couple of stories.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_01: Remember Marquez used to punch the speed bag and pop it.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_01: And you remember these things and it just feels like.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: With some of these pay-per-views, there's not even like and it's probably budget.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: No one has money right now, but man, is it like.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_00: But the consumer doesn't have money.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I'm saying?
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: I can't be worried about what money Turkey, Allah, Sheik, and Dana White don't have.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm out here just trying to get it, you know, how I can get it.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I just feel like this potentially could be the passing of the torch.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_01: This could be like a new era of guy is here.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_01: And Billy is part of that.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_01: And Canelo is going to do rich old guy fights.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: Or Canelo is going to beat a young guy.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: And we're going to be like, maybe he's got...
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_01: A year and a half left in the sport.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then he's done.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's pretty close to being over for Canelo.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think he said as much, too, that he's got like, I don't remember.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: I just remember seeing an interview where he's like,
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: I got another two or three in me after this.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_01: He's thinking about it.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that the.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_01: For me, that this fight.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_01: Could be the circumstances with why it's like around how it's happening.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: But it's a really important fight for like the history of Canelo
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_01: because like he wins this fight.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's probably one of his 10 best wins in a way.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like if he loses it, it kind of signals that.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like moving into an ambassador,
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: like he'll finish up a contract,
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: he'll go out on his terms, but he's not going to be like the centerpiece of boxing.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I just feel like the story more so is the setting rather than what this means
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: for the sport of boxing,
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_01: which is kind of the problem with boxing in 2026 is that we're missing the context
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_01: of the sport and we're talking about all the things going on around it,
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_01: which I kind of blame.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_01: the 24-hour YouTube channels and stuff where all they want to do is talk about
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: the business of boxing and how smart this guy is and fighters should be punished
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: if they don't sign with the right promoter.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what type of dumb stuff is this?
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a fight fan, you just want to see good fights.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_01: We don't need promoters to win or lose.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but boxing does
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: that to itself, bro.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: We'd be talking about this on an X and O level exclusively if
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_00: the circumstances around it weren't so repulsive.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, that's what it is.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, to me, This is a real fascinating fight.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of the strangest fight dates ever.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's happening on Halloween in like the middle of the day.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like I can't imagine this is going to be a blockbuster hit because it's like,
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_01: Halloween is like I feel like one of the Hardest events to go head to head
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: with up there with Thanksgiving and Christmas because Halloween taps
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_01: into every adult who likes to play dress up, gets a free pass to play dress up.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_01: And if you have kids, every kid wants to go trick or treating.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_01: So you're tapping into like it's not just do you have the money to watch it?
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: This is a day where people might be going somewhere.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: People might be getting dressed up while it's on.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_01: And let's be honest,
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_01: if it's a pay per view,
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_01: People aren't going to pay for the pay-per-view and play dress-up more than likely,
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of strange that,
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_01: one of our biggest fighters is fighting on basically an American national holiday
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_01: that I think a lot of adults romanticize.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_01: I can't remember a Halloween fight.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think just to round that out, I think as a whole...
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: I would like it as a fan who did buy the pay-per-views when they were good.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_00: I wish that Canelo maybe cared a little more if I saw it.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think he does care if I see it.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was fans like me and Lukie that Help to elevate Canelo to that point.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: And everybody here that's watching,
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_00: that tuned into Canelo's prime for the run of fights
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_00: where he was just fighting killer after killer and taking on,
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_00: all comers and cleaning out 168 pounds,
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_00: getting better after the Mayweather fight, having the two fights with Golovkin.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_00: When they were still quality fights.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I just don't get the sense that Canelo is really worried anymore if those fans that helped.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, he did it himself with his skill and his hard work.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not taking that from him.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_00: But the fans still have to tune in in order for a fighter to be successful in
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_00: the way that he has been.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_00: We've seen really talented guys that don't have that fan base.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_00: They don't always get that kind of credit or those kind of accolades,
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_00: you know, because they don't have that fan base.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so the fans are always a piece of a fighter's success.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the part that is disappointing to me as a fan
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_00: of Canelo is I just don't think he gives a shit if I see it.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think the other thing is this is business me and Canelo where it's just like,
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_01: I hate to say it,
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_01: but at this point,
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_01: Canelo's a little bit of the problem of boxing where it's just about the money.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like what I think made you and me fall in love
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_01: with Canelo was he fought Austin Trout when it didn't necessarily make sense.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_01: He fought Lara because of his ego.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, you guys think I'd lose to Lara?
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: Let me fight this guy.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_01: He fought Golovkin.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, he kind of tried to wait him out.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_01: It felt like from the outside looking in,
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_01: but he still fought Golovkin at a point where it was like,
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_01: He's still, yeah, it's like there was the sentiment that he didn't fight Canelo
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_01: or fight Golovkin right when Golovkin was that guy,
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_01: when he was like, looked like a monster.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_01: But it happened in a window where you always will feel like it happened at the right time.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_01: And Golovkin, I feel, beat him in the first fight, you know, and, you know, he took the rematch.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_01: He goes on that legacy run at super middleweight undisputed.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_01: And since the Bivol loss, it's just been kind of slow, hand-selected, acceptable opponents.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it feels like he's not fully...
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like he's just picking up money, but I don't sense the enthusiasm.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like he's like a mentally retired fighter.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_00: No, the enthusiasm and the...
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_00: Legacy element are not as much of a factor.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think he's still in the sport taking meaningful matchups
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: because he is still invested in it and he still is a competitor.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_00: But it's not, again, it's not the same guy.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's not the 2016, 2017 boxer puncher.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's not the 2022 destroyer.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's leg three or leg four for Canelo and that's a different thing.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I also want to talk about this before we get out of here.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_01: You look at the undercard,
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_01: and it's like you pay a guy a lot of money,
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_01: and there's not a lot of air in the room to breathe.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_01: You look at this undercard,
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_01: and it's like,
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: how can you make an undercard when Canelo's making so much,
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: and then Billy's got to get his?
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this undercard just outside of the Lindolfo Delgado versus Arthur Baris-Lanoff.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's not spectacular.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's a good fight, but is that pay-per-view co-headlining material?
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_00: Probably not.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: No, the co-main event is Jaime Munguia versus a guy I've never seen fight,
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_01: and he's not fighting Beck the Bully, who he was mandating to fight.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly what we
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_01: wanted.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_01: Lindolfo, as far as I know, hasn't left for Saudi Arabia yet.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_01: In that case, we don't even know if Lindolfo is going to be on the fight, right?
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the best fight is Robert Garcia's team and Lindolfo haven't begun traveling.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not like it's a short travel.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a voyage.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_01: You got to go around the world to get to this location.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know, man.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_01: I just think that when you have a guy making so much money,
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_01: It really limits what you can do with an undercard unless
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_01: that people are really excited for the opportunity to get exposure.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_01: Then you can possibly get maybe a chop chop or a guy like that who really wants
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_01: to be introduced to someone.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_01: But it just feels like it's like here's some names or some guys you might have heard of.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_01: And they're fighting whatever was acceptable.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever we could make.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_01: It just feels like a make it work card.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_01: This is what we could make work.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a deflating.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited about the main event.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know,
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_01: there's nothing that I look at this undercard and go,
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_01: man, that's a scintillating matchup.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_00: There's also only but so excited I can get about a fight I know I'm not going to watch live.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_01: You also, yeah,
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_01: it's like if you're not going to watch it live and if it is a good fight,
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_01: it's probably going to be posted on the DAZN YouTube page within a day or two
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_01: because I think the assumption.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_00: They're getting stingier about that.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_00: They are.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_00: They're definitely getting stingier about that, bro.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_00: There was a pay-per-view recently.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_00: I checked in and on Wednesday they still wanted 75 bucks.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I think they're holding out a little more these days.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't seem the thing that I talk about doesn't feel like anybody's trying to grow boxing.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_01: Feels like we're trying to shrink it.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_01: We're trying to make it as small as possible and get as much from the
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_00: people that like it.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're not we're not in the store, bro.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's loot.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_00: They're looting the store.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it's tough.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_01: We've talked enough about this.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows what will be back the start of November?
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_01: What we'll be talking about.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows what we might.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_01: We might be doing an emergency podcast at some point because of something.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think every day fight fans are going to be kind of rushing to their computer
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_01: when they wake up just to see what's happening.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_01: What's happening?
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_01: Are the media events happening?
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like what's going on?
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_01: But it's a strange one.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_01: I can't recall ever trying to do a preview show for a fight that I'm not sure will happen.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think it'll happen.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_01: But like...
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of a weird circumstance,
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_01: and I think that a lot of lifelong boxing people have grown disinterested in boxing
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_01: with the direction it's gone because of its love affair with greed.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_01: We will be back next week.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_01: The following week is going to be a sensational week.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_01: We've got two pretty good British-level fights, and we have that MVP card.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_01: Sadly, the fight me and Dakota wanted to see what's happening.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_00: Shame for
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_01: Tiara Brand.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_01: Still a good card, though.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_00: Still a good card.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's a shame for Tiara Brown because she's a fantastic fighter
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_01: and Ella Scottney is also a fantastic fighter.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a shame.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_01: But hopefully we'll finish out,
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_01: I guess,
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_01: because we did a more fight-centric start with Oshaki Foster and his brilliance.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_01: We had to end with a non-fight-centric thing.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_01: We had to even it out because boxing can't just give us all...
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I wish boxing didn't force our hand on that, you know?
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, any final thoughts today?
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_00: More Shock Foster, less Canelo in a war zone.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, there we go.