Latest / The Curve / How the Bank of Mum & Dad Is Shaping an Inheritocracy, with Dr Eliza Filby.

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How the Bank of Mum & Dad Is Shaping an Inheritocracy, with Dr Eliza Filby. · The Curve

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  80% of millennials now expect some kind of inheritance from their parents
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  and you know more than 50% of first-time buyers are only able to get on the
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  housing ladder with the help of mom and dad. It's impacting families, it's impacting
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  relationships, it's impacting friendship groups and we don't talk about it. We don't talk about
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  money but what's more is we definitely don't talk about it if we didn't earn it.
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  Marry a guy in finance. It's actually not the right advice. It's marry the guy who's
• 0:27
  dad worked in finance. The entrepreneur is the new rock and roll star. It used to be
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  you know Mick Jagger. Kids used to want to start a band, now they want to start a business.
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  So true! There's a certain freedom and fluidity that comes from running a business,
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  if it's just not actually owning a house. What would one piece of advice be for women who are
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  looking to build financial independence today, regardless of their generational background?
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  So a couple of things. Dr Eliza Filby, now we have been stalking you for like at least 12 months.
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  Your content has been popping up everywhere. Podcasts you've been on, research that you put out,
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  our whole team absolutely loves the work that you do so we're really grateful to have you here
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  today. Ultimately you talk about in this book but also in your research and your content
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  and other platforms. You talk about inheritance, privilege, family money, all things that make
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  people squirm in their seeds. Money in general makes people so uncomfortable but this layer of wealth
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  and money seems to make people feel even more uncomfortable. And I'd love to know what your
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  reactions have been to this book or how people respond when you talk about this.
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  And why do you think it's so much harder for us to get around these types of conversations
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  rather than just normal money, salary conversations? Oh gosh, there's so many questions there.
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  So I think I should start with the book's title is in heritocracy. It's time to talk about the
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  bank of Mum and Dad because I'm fully aware that no one talks about it. And it varies across
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  different geographies. I did some work in the States promoting the book and there they have
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  a much more open dialogue when it comes to money. Much more assertive publicly that building
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  generational wealth is something to be proud of, should be an aspiration. In the UK it's not so
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  funny isn't it? And it's a consequence of our history, right? What's our great cultural
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  export is down to Nabi. We still very much obsessed about this 19th century 20th century
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  sort of aristocratic dramas, most great 19th century novels are about inheritance or the loss
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  of inheritance. And so our historic relationship with inheritance money is one that we've
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  concealed in history and like to think is no longer part of our cultural present, right?
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  This is a side-deer that we used to be an aristocratic country but now we're very much
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  meritocracy and I think what I wanted to expose was actually this evolution of the bank of Mum
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  and Dad that wasn't just aristocratic actually. It had permeated the economics of society and
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  most families to the extent that 80% of millennials now expect some kind of inheritance from their
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  parents and more than 50% of first-time buyers are only able to get on the housing ladder with the
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  help of Mum and Dad. We're seeing the largest transference of wealth down the family tree from
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  baby boomers mostly to millennials. There is not just aristocratic, it's impacting families,
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  it's impacting relationships, it's impacting friendship groups, it's impacting economics,
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  it's corrupting the housing market, it's impacting education system and there's all sorts of
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  ways that the bank of Mum and Dad is playing a huge role and we don't talk about it. We don't
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  talk about money but what's more is we definitely don't talk about it if we didn't earn it.
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  It's just so true, isn't it? So it's like I remember what I was giving a talk and this woman came
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  up to me after me and she was like thank you so much. Thank you so much for helping me understand
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  why when I hit my 30s, literally within my friendship group houses started falling
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  from the sky 100% into people's laps without them saving a dime and it being this huge
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  division within our friendship groups and the definer actually of that decade and it makes you feel
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  so shept when you have no idea how people are doing that and all you see is the full sales
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  sign and people standing in front of it taking photos and you just think how on earth did you get
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  a deposit ticket there when I try so hard to be clear with my money how they all done that and I
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  haven't. Right and I think it's also the, what we can talk about is for sure is that the economy
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  of buying a house is fundamentally changed and that makes it makes it really difficult to do
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  without that. So it's not just that people are getting some help, it's that those that don't
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  have help can't actually do it in the way that previous generations have and and so I wanted to
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  I like talking about difficult things and I grew up in a household where everything was quite
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  unfiltered which is probably I'm real for a UK family. I think it is I think it is and so I think
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  it was very easy for me to go right I'm going to write a book about money but in order for
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  me to write a book about money I have to start with my own story I have to be honest with
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  the reader that I am a beneficiary of exactly the phenomenon I'm talking about I'm wanting to
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  lift the lid on. It's so interesting you bring that up because that's something I wanted to ask
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  you on you know you, I was about to say you expose your family's dynamics you didn't expose
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  let me just spoke openly. My mom read it before I published it by the way. It's quite interesting
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  because when I was reading it and I noticed how honest you were about your own situation I think
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  it really made me reflect as well because you know hosting this podcast I'm a white privileged
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  woman and like yes I have some disadvantages that a lot of you know baby boomer men don't have
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  but ultimately I am a very privileged part of society too and I think it's really important to
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  lead with that because it's context that has been left out with a lot of these wealth conversations
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  and so for you to bring this up in your book and talk about how you saw in herotocracy within
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  your own family and and and then gave you more context for the you know wider societal shifts
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  and what was happening I think was really brave and really important. Can you perhaps just define
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  for those who don't understand the difference between the two what they are just to sort of
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  pin this conversation here so that things we speak about. I have a nice neat phrase that I think
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  summarizes this idea of in herotoxy so in in herotoxy is obviously the opposite to a merit
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  oxy where you know you really your the rewards of hard work you know are come to fruition but
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  an in herotoxy is a society where it's not what you're earning because frankly wages have
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  stalled in the UK not not different across different parts of the world it's not what you're
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  learning because the investment the return on that investment of education again is declining now
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  um it's whether you have access to the bank or mum and dad that is defining opportunity and
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  it's it's it's that put simply is that we are living in an economy where it's really not just
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  inheritance but gifts you know inheritance tends to be when your parents die the gifts that come
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  from parents certainly the earlier you get those gifts the more they compound over time um it's the
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  gift of opportunity it's the gift of a safety net it's often it's the gift that enables you to take
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  risk start a business just a risk which do another degree it's it's that safety net and springboard
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  that for many of my generation and now Gen Z has been the division within friendship groups
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  that have meant that some have catapulted into adulthood proper as traditionally defined
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  another's a left languishing behind in that sort of way it's just so interesting and I love
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  that you keep bringing up the friendship pace because a lot of people who listen to this podcast
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  are probably a lot of their friends listen I mean this brand started they can I have been
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  friends for a long time so and that's kind of what we always wanted it to feel like was learning
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  about money with the support of friends were around like for it to feel like that rather than
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  super pedestal and learning from someone that knows everything because they can I have both
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  human and always make mistakes too but if I'm being totally honest if I look around my friendship
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  grow I see things on social media about you know the house that people are living in the holidays
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  that they're going on the branded clothing that they're wearing and I just think how on earth
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  are they doing that based on their roles you know the jobs that they have I know that a lot of
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  them will be earning really good money so it's absolutely not to say that they haven't earned a lot
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  of what they've been taxed a lot I mean this is the interesting thing is is that you're absolutely
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  right a couple of months ago or maybe it was like a year ago there was the whole meme going around
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  marry a guy in finance oh yes yeah right so this idea of like marry a guy in finance
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  marry a guy in finance I've kind of loved the song but it was like it's just so weird how deeply
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  ingrained that is but it's actually not the right advice it's marry the guy who's dad worked in
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  finance right because he would have accumulated wealth at the right time over time that wealth would
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  have compounded to have generated enough wealth that the son's income was irrelevant it's so
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  true we don't care about your salary what's your dad's asset portfolio what's your wealth not
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  your income yeah that's the big shift right because actually the way that and if we're talking
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  uniquely UK context the way that wage is taxed is so prohibitive that it's not helping people
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  propel based on this way even in London if you're on 150,000 pounds which is an extraordinary
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  amount of money annually right you are taxed to a certain degree that I bet you you are not
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  buying that house on your own or that even that flat frankly because house prices and wages are
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  so out of whack and so I think that's true it's part to the world yeah I mean it's certainly true
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  in major cities across the world and it is regional and it is geographically specific and
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  it's really important to kind of tease out the nuance there but I think we used to assume
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  that a high wage could get you a certain standard of living and I think actually that attitude
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  still prevails I wrote an article in which we modeled the data and showed that how 100,000 pounds
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  a year was not a high wage now of course it is of course it is of course it is because it's really
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  important we talk about the economic scale here in its entirety and realize that a hundred thousand
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  pounds a year is a lot but then when you look at if that person had gone from say 50k to 100k
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  over the last five years the amount they would have been taxed on that wage actually the rewards of
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  that are actually very little okay this is really maybe one of the questions I was so excited to
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  speak to you about because I think there's the obvious wealth of you know the Bank of Mum and
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  Dad that here's some money to put towards your deposit or here's the whole deposit but there's a lot
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  of underlying more quiet luxuries that come with having that backstop and this is things like
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  free childcare I mean childcare most parts of the world is absurdly expensive lots of people have
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  to give up their jobs because they can't afford it there is living rent free when you're in your
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  twin teeth to be able to save enough to maybe buy the house there is so many things that I think
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  underestimate when it comes to the privilege of being in a space that allows you to be
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  propelled forward from a personal and professional standpoint what do you think or how do you think
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  that these are so underestimated and how do you think that we could perhaps understand better
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  the way in which that then changes people's life or trajectories while understanding yeah it's
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  not just the money handout it's all these other elements that are playing into a ecosystem yeah
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  absolutely and and I think that it's it's also not just about housing which is the conversation
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  that never becomes up when you talk about the Bank of Mum Dad it's it's education you know who
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  graduates without debt who who has like you say the ability to do an internship for free or who
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  has the ability to live in a big city rent free who has the ability to go to certain events
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  network with certain people have lunch with certain people in their industry and naturally
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  just kind of seamlessly flow into that industry who has the ability to seek funding or get
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  funding for a career swap who has the ability to become a first time buyer of a flat and then
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  upgrade that flat to a small house and then upgrade that small house to a bigger house right the
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  cascade the housing ladder it's no longer a ladder it's a leap for for for anyone else that does
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  longer help right it's a long job yeah so so it's it plays out in so many different ways and I think
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  by the way it's worth saying as a mother of two if I can help my kids I'm going to help my kids
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  right it's a natural human instinct to want to elevate create safety protect reject
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  your offspring into the world and so this is not this is why it's so difficult really to talk
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  about because it's not this evil capitalist system that we just kind of like bash you know like
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  the bankers or the 1% it's a economic force that stems from love sometimes control right but we
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  can talk about that if you want to talk about that but so the and it's also you can't assume it
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  what's fascinating to me is is the people I spoke to in the book that you'd assume they had
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  family wealth but didn't maybe their dad and mother had got divorced and his their dad got
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  remarried and his dad had had some children and then it was actually all the money went on the
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  second family or there are a number of people in in the UK for example that are very asset rich
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  you know the parents had a big house but the parents had no money though asset rich cash poor
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  which they're actually quite a significant amount of baby boomers who live in you know multiple
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  bedroom houses but have no cash to release to help their kids so the the or you know those with
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  multiple degrees you may assume that those degrees were paid for by their parents but actually
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  know and actually said the real story within the book is not so much just that divide between those
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  that have the bank of my dad and those that don't it's those that get it early those that get it
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  you know sort of guilt free those where there's no strings attached there's so many different
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  sort of nuances to the story because every family is different right every family is different
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  and it doesn't naturally concur that and my family's a really good example of this is just because
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  your middle class that you've got the bank of my dad for every family there is a different story
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  about this you could be from a working class family but your parents you know bought two houses
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  so one did one up you know you know and and they have you may not have got a degree but your
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  bank of mom and dad means that you're now on the housing ladder you could be you know from Scotland
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  where still first time buyers are more likely to have done it on their own than with their parents
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  huge difference from from London and not need the bank of mom and dad you could be you know
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  someone that studied a stem subject and is in a partnership with another stems person that's
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  in stem industry and you haven't needed the bank of mom and dad because although you work in
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  London you actually live 100 miles outside of London so the thing the thing about the inheritance
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  it's not that everyone's screwed if they don't have the bank of mom and dad is that if you do have it
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  you can take more risks you can have more opportunities you have the gift of time
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  and you have the safety net when things go wrong and I try in the book to illustrate examples
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  where those didn't have the bank of mom and dad or those that weren't obvious banks of moms and
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  dads that they have their own story as well and a part of this bigger economic narrative I think
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  it's really interesting that can I with both we both have the bank of mom and dad we're both
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  you know would we say working middle class I mean I actually kind of get a bit confused with
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  the different technology do we do we claim that I'm unsure I mean I would say I mean you stable
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  middle class or lower middle class I have no idea I would say you was your parents first gen
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  university students no oh yes how's my grandma wouldn't have gone to university yet right say
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  no my grandma had a house your grandma had a house yeah they'll say your family middle class
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  so and I would say Peruvian is quite similar and I think what you just share when you're talking
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  about New Zealand so that's completely different it's so different because New Zealand and Australia
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  are such young countries we don't have that intergenerational long term wealth it's accumulated over
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  hundreds of years but you know also for both Vick and I some of our family did come from the UK so
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  right kind of there is that connection but I think what is really interesting is the emotional
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  social relationships that come with the support system I mean my mom I tried desperately when we
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  said the girl for her to let me live in her outhouse and she just wouldn't let me I mean the point
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  is I could have been there if she let me but it was just like her mom didn't let her do that when
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  she was younger so it kind of floated to me and okay anyway I um but then differently when I went
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  back to New Zealand last year and I ended up having to stay for four months in New Zealand my dad and
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  my step-mom allowed me to stay and you know I was paying a tiny bit of rent so that's a huge help
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  because I wasn't paying rent in the UK I was paying a tiny amount in New Zealand like that is
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  enormous you know I've to be able to have that and it was at a point in time with the business where
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  we paid ourselves less so it was really helpful for me to not be paying full rent so all those kind
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  of there is a a backstop and I think just in general the psychological safety of knowing that
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  should it go exactly appearance you know are hopefully in some way able to help you know there's
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  a lot of people that just do not have that at all and I that's it isn't it I there's a chapter in
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  the book which is about kid oh hood and it was this idea that actually if you we have extended
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  our adolescence like over the last 20 years not just millennials Gen Z but actually even before
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  that Gen X like we're taking longer to grow up than our parents did and grow up in that
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  traditional way oh the age of which we have single going and living with my parents like yeah my
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  mom had a four-year-old and was married and was you know I mean child adult of the different
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  architecture of of of that first sort of third of life and and I the thing I point out though
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  is that when you're in your 20s life's you know passively quite messy and you don't quite know
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  who you are yet and you're still sort of like literally sort of finding your way and I remember
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  this perfect this very sort of sense that when I graduated university we were all broke always broke
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  I was always caching checks where there was no money in the bank right I was always broke any
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  everyone kind of was you felt like you were everyone was kind of broke yeah but there was only
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  so far I could full before I got bailed out right and I did get bailed out the amount of time
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  now there it it started to this is where I think like that's where I said your 30s is great
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  dividing line and it's not just you know whether you have the bank or mom dad it could be
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  potentially if you've got children or not or you know you're living on the you want the professional
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  track or not you know there are there are you start kind of moving in one direction and perhaps
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  in the way that your your other friends moving in other directions but I do remember this sort of
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  sense of those that couldn't fool had a drive had a focus and had a sense of urgency and quite often
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  they were supporting their parents the money was going up the family tree not down the family tree
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  they're they tended to going right traditional professions yeah I was fanning around going to
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  libraries and trying to be an academic around no but like honestly it was an indulgence had I had
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  to fund my parents I would not have done that I would not have made that choice I wouldn't have
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  had that luxury of choice you would have been tried to be a lawyer a doctor anything that is a
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  tried and true I will be paid a paycheck that makes sense I I remember when I was at university
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  there was a real divide between who had to work and who didn't in term time right it's changed
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  now because the cost of education has changed there was a real divide between who had um who had to
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  work during the holidays and who didn't right that was me I had to work my parents were like you
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  have to work during the holidays you don't don't work during term time but you have to work in the holidays
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  and then there was a massive divide and there were people that didn't have to work in the
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  then there was a massive divide between those that graduated from no debt and those that
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  graduated with some debt and those that graduated with a lot of debt now actually that's even
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  doubt somewhat because more and more people are graduating with a lot more debt but having said
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  that there is this there's there's a real sort of like you say it's it's quiet but once you start
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  to sort of realise it you realise who has that safety net and who doesn't and some parents
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  don't offer that safety net deliberately I was interviewing someone for the book who he had had
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  quite a wayward 20s he'd ended up on the streets in London going to drugs and you know he said
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  I was always letting my parents down and they were you know increasingly frustrated with me but
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  gradually sorted himself out and and and wanted to buy a flat in London his dad was like I will
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  lend you the money for the deposit but you're paying me back with interest right so and he said to
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  me you know I didn't just have the bank of mom and dad it was actually a bank my bank of mom and
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  dad came with interest and I have to sit around the dinner table with them every Sunday I'm not
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  defaulting my parents I have more of an obligation to pay them in a way that I wouldn't actually
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  wear an actual bank and his dad put constraints on him because he wanted to teach him about money
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  and responsibility and so I think there's a really interesting sort of lesson there is like what is
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  too much money from the bank of mom and dad that actually stifles ambition I wanted the
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  interviewees in the book was an actor who really throughout his 20s his parents were like you know
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  do what you love go and find and explore yourself dereleau will fund it and they funded basically
• 24:40
  a central London pad that his that he was had access to he was like you know I never really had to
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  work this was like throughout his 20s he gone to drama school he was sort of you know if there's
• 24:55
  anything that gives you know I can do what I want at this time right now he's in his mid 30s with
• 24:59
  the child and he married someone who's super savvy with money and lived her life through spreadsheets
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  and saved as much money as he got from his parents for the house right she was she was literally I
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  think he said she saved him but what's fascinating is that how do you feel about the money that your
• 25:16
  parents gave you in your 20s and you actually wanted to go there next because I think there's so
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  much guilt and shame that come with it I knew that I was surrounded by people who didn't have this
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  luxury who were grafting as you know unemployed actors at going to auditions but also like working
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  in pubs working in bars doing things and he was like I reflect on that period and I just think
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  what a fucking waste of I really wish my parents hadn't indulged that so interesting and now I just
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  see it as wasted years now I see it as I can't afford to give my son what my parents gave me
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  because I wasted those years I wish they'd put guardrails and boundaries on that now what's
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  fascinating is they were lawyers and they wanted him to pursue the passions that they had had
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  but were unable to and it's when it comes to parenting quite often you want to give your kids
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  everything you didn't have and actually sometimes that's not the best thing to do it. It's so
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  interesting it's all this is a weird conclusion to draw here but you know if you've been in a for
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  example a relationship that the person just so kind they're so kind kind kind kind but zero spice
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  you break up with them and generally you go for the complete opposite which is the spiciest
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  scariest fuck for you they've met you know I think that this is quite similar where you know you
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  are trying to fill the holes that we're missing but you forget the things that are good that you
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  liked in that and you want to pass on or give to your children it's so interesting as well because
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  you have kids and you came from privilege and having the Bank of Mum and Dad how do you look at
• 26:58
  your kids and think about what do I want to pass on and how do I want to think about their Bank of
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  Mum and Dad and how they have access to privilege. Yeah I mean it's a conundrum I deal with every day
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  and don't really have an answer to and ask my kids in 30 years time when I've properly fucked them up
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  I mean I think the thing is right is that I grew up with a lot more
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  um opportunity than my mother did and certainly my grandmother and my daughter will hopefully
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  potentially grow up with even more opportunity and freedom and and less expectation on her
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  than I did however one of the things that I worry about a lot is my kids have never been cold
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  really you know I didn't grow up with central heating we had to light fires you know we eventually
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  got central heating but like I remember being a really cold growing up they've never really had
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  that they've never had to wait for a TV program I mean like let's get real here they've had access
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  to multiple channels you know the algorithm serving them or everything they want a need
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  my kids haven't but that generation has grown up shouting at Alexis you know to Mars
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  and have grown up play baby shark right and and and so my kids have never been hungry and
• 28:18
  I'll remember being like that was a vivid memory in my childhood being hungry and I don't
• 28:24
  I don't say that as a kind of like woes me and I'm kind of over compensating with my children by
• 28:29
  giving them everything they need and want I'd actually try I'm not mean mummy who likes put
• 28:33
  in friction I'm like you're going to watch terrestrial TV you're going to wait for the program
• 28:40
  and um you know you are you are going to be timed whenever you're on your screen and I'm going
• 28:47
  to like make you produce the food before you eat it so you understand and appreciate food and
• 28:55
  it's not just delivered you know um say yeah I got I'm awful I'm horrible and I'm not always
• 29:01
  successful in in in providing that friction but I think that friction is really important and
• 29:05
  and hopefully as a generation of parents um I think we're also super aware that life is going to
• 29:14
  get really hard for the next generation and I'm not talking Gen and Z I'm talking Gen alpha
• 29:20
  they're probably going to be known as Gen AI and they're growing up in a world where geopolitically
• 29:26
  things seem very uncertain you can see the tilt of power um globally and obviously because of AI
• 29:35
  you know it calls into question how we learn what we learn and ultimately what we do so they're
• 29:42
  going to have to be super resilient and super agile and I I think that's that's that's the thing
• 29:51
  I'm really interested in is how do you create or how do you help teach or how do you demonstrate
• 29:56
  rather it's probably the best thing that agility so that it's normal to your kids one of the things
• 30:02
  I'm really worried about with millennials is you know we're we're hitting midlife and the narrative
• 30:08
  that we were sold you know get a degree get on the track life's opening up actually increasingly
• 30:15
  is not true um it's not true from an economic perspective it's not true from a work perspective
• 30:21
  but with I think still wedded to those narratives and and our kids won't be so that's quite cool
• 30:26
  I think Gen Z and not they're like well I can't do anything I don't think and you know I think
• 30:33
  you're a good example of this is like you're building a business and and and there's a certain
• 30:40
  freedom and fluidity that comes from running a business that there's just not actually owning a house
• 30:44
  you know and I was actually going to ask you if you think that is the wave of entrepreneurialism
• 30:48
  that's coming through is it almost a reaction to the idea that this traditional path is actually
• 30:54
  no longer viable for us so so many people are trying to figure out how to start a business I think
• 31:00
  that that's a I mean that's a whole conversation itself but before we kind of I'm obsessed with
• 31:06
  this because we've seen the lionizing of the entrepreneur the entrepreneur you know is is the new
• 31:11
  rock-and-roll star it used to be you know Mick Jagger now it's like you know we're exactly
• 31:20
  no but you think about like kids used to want to start a band now they want to start a business
• 31:25
  so true you know and I think there is a lionizing a false lionizing of becoming entrepreneur
• 31:33
  actually most people don't want to be entrepreneurs I also think that's so thank the narrative
• 31:39
  that sold online what it's like to run business it's it's also it's also you know I run a
• 31:45
  business I I I have a small team you know I hire people I I am acutely aware there's a huge
• 31:56
  difference between being a solo printer and having a coterie of people that you work with
• 32:04
  and being an entrepreneur where you are building a business building a team creating a product
• 32:11
  selling the product it's a very different dynamic and I think people conflate the two and actually
• 32:16
  I think they're hugely different they're hugely different and I've gone from being a solo
• 32:19
  printer essentially selling my time to and being in control of my time to being an entrepreneur
• 32:27
  where I'm hiring people to do that to do the thing for me and that's been a real journey for me
• 32:32
  because I I did the same thing yeah and I wouldn't say I was a natural entrepreneur I mean
• 32:38
  naturally exactly the same I feel like I should know same I'm curious and I sort of fell into it
• 32:43
  but I do think there's a huge difference from running your own business as a freelance or almost
• 32:48
  who sells your time and actually yeah building a team and growing something bigger it's completely
• 32:52
  different and sells your time or search your product but essentially it's you right it's
• 32:57
  essentially you pushing a car per hill and it does it's it's incredibly difficult and the bigger
• 33:03
  you get and the more opportunities there are you you you you may just naturally sort of drift into
• 33:10
  being an entrepreneur going back to the what will Jen alpha do I I genuinely think that in the age
• 33:17
  of AI there are generalists and that generalist is called an LLM and we're all going to we're all
• 33:23
  going to have to kind constantly outpace the the LLM that's increasingly becoming the expert
• 33:30
  and so we're going to have to constantly be curious and an agile and intellectually sort of
• 33:37
  growing and enhancing our skills but also selling our skills and and and selling them in a human
• 33:46
  centric way that in the age of AI the definition of human you know definition of luxury sorry is
• 33:52
  is anything delivered by human and what does that sort of human connection build which is trust
• 33:58
  and you know the source of every business dynamic should be trust so I'm thinking actually it's not
• 34:04
  just you want to breed a generation of entrepreneurs you want to breed a generation that has great
• 34:08
  curiosity great agility great human skills and great marketing skills frankly that can sell not just
• 34:14
  their product someone they meet face to face but sell it to the world what would one piece of
• 34:19
  advice be for women who are looking to build financial independence today regardless of their
• 34:24
  generational background because I think there's a lot of people that feel very trot and down
• 34:30
  and exhausted with the idea of trying to keep up with this invisible wealth line that is just being
• 34:36
  raised higher and higher with no conversation about where it's coming from whether people have
• 34:40
  access to it or not do you have any advice for women that are feeling just a bit lost in the whole
• 34:45
  the current system right now so a couple of things I think it's really important to be
• 34:50
  financially independent and invest and get a grip on your finances that is incredibly empowering
• 34:57
  I think it's also really important if you are out earning your partner or are the breadwinner
• 35:05
  recognize the consequences of that dynamic when you have children I was the female breadwinner
• 35:12
  for a period of our marriage and actually I really resented my husband staying at home and spending
• 35:15
  time in my kids what my kids were like I think financial independence is really key I think
• 35:25
  secondly like how how we can build our lives in the way that meets the time because we tend to fixate
• 35:40
  on this kind of three-stage life of education work retirement and frankly that's upending
• 35:44
  entirely like how much of your life is going to be devoted to looking after kids but also how much
• 35:50
  of your life is going to be devoted looking after your parents elderly parents we haven't even talked
• 35:54
  about huge life commitment particularly if they live in another country particularly as you maybe
• 35:58
  have a strained relationship with them particularly you know it's all sorts of all the things elder
• 36:03
  care I think is as big a responsibility as child care but also like how many you know how many
• 36:09
  careers are you likely to have you know I've had three distinct career sort of moments and I'm
• 36:16
  45 I may have five you know and I think just kind of like actually recognizing that life is long
• 36:22
  if you have the privilege to you know live to the average life expectancy life is long
• 36:28
  and and I think a lot longer than men actually and I think we as women have to not fixate
• 36:36
  on chasing milestones and the same timeline you're seeing around the time line and this kind
• 36:44
  of milestone culture and actually yes there is a fix there is a fixed timeline on fertility and I
• 36:50
  think it's really positive that Gen Zia really kind of empowering themselves and and and finding out
• 36:56
  more and more about about that and you know egg freezing and all of those kinds of things and I
• 37:00
  think that is actually a really important difference from certainly when I was their age but I also
• 37:04
  think that this race that we all feel that we're on because we're all on bloody social media
• 37:10
  checking other people's lanes seeing what else is going on in their stories life is long and we do
• 37:17
  have time you know and this idea that we have to do things before we're 40 or do things before
• 37:23
  with 30 or do things before with 50 is actually bullshit and actually we're living in a time
• 37:28
  the real luxury of living in the 2020s is we are redefining aging and actually not just aging but
• 37:35
  the way that women age and I'm not talking Botox here I'm talking the fact that actually
• 37:40
  women older women of of Gen X and baby women generation are paving away from much more positive
• 37:47
  experience and empowering experience aging I mean I can't wait to kind of be in my fully like
• 37:54
  my wisdom years you know bestowing advice on and some relationship advice here it is and but it's
• 38:01
  also like I do believe the secret to good aging is is remaining curious remaining agile and not
• 38:08
  thinking you know everything and and we've never had more and more of an opportunity to be that do
• 38:14
  that and live that and that is a real privilege and I think as much as it feels like everything's
• 38:19
  uncertain and difficult and challenging I also think there's huge opportunities that we need to
• 38:26
  just embrace as women and and ultimately of course as families I also think what you just
• 38:31
  said about redefining what life looks like after 30 because we've got to this time and I guess
• 38:38
  just life and you think oh yeah everything from here is downhill I'm uglier I'm not married I
• 38:42
  can't marry a kind of children blah blah blah you're like this desert that is like all of a
• 38:46
  sudden worth this and actually you're seeing that completely shift in people no longer thinking
• 38:50
  of someone that's over the age of 40 without kids that they have surrounded by cat here and are
• 38:55
  like withering away sad mess it's like no actually we can choose to not have kids if we don't want to
• 39:01
  we are redefining what it means to have a life that is fulfilled over not just your first 30 years
• 39:06
  but actually hopefully 80 right and I think that's a really inspiring like last thought and I know
• 39:11
  that your cab is about to leave so I must wrap this up but thank you so much and we will put all
• 39:16
  of the details for everyone that wants to find you on social media online all of your incredible
• 39:22
  books and yeah thank you so much for sharing your wisdom it was such a pleasure to say to you thanks
• 39:27
  thank you so much for listening to Raising the Curve these conversations are designed to teach you
• 39:31
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• 39:35
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• 39:39
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• 39:43
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• 39:48
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• 39:55
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• 40:04
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