Latest / Style Points / Managing Overtime with Yousef Raslan

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Managing Overtime with Yousef Raslan · Style Points

0:10
Hello, anesthesia enthusiasts, and welcome to Style
0:12
Points. I'm John Crow. On this episode, we're
0:16
talking to my friend and colleague, Dr. Yusuf
0:18
Razlan. Let's just jump right in. This was kind
0:23
of emotional for me going through all this past
0:27
stuff. It brought back a whole lot of memories.
0:32
I'm sure when I sent you the questions and you
0:36
were reading through it, it probably brought
0:37
back a lot of stuff for you, too. yeah so i guess
0:44
i know that we've talked about it before but
0:48
i it's always good to get perspective from someone
0:52
else that was closely involved um because i mean
0:57
i obviously know my perspective my family my
1:00
wife but um i don't know i don't really have
1:04
a lot of opportunities to sit and like talk openly
1:08
about other people and kind of their outlook
1:11
on it and how they saw how that like kind of
1:15
what they felt and their emotions that were happening
1:18
through something like that um i don't know it's
1:23
kind of selfishly i've just been so worried about
1:25
uh myself from that perspective and just like
1:31
healing mentally sure i'm pretty much i think
1:34
i'm pretty much like i don't know it's a thing
1:37
of the past at this point and there's a lot of
1:39
lessons i've i took from it and i'm definitely
1:42
different from before that versus now but can't
1:47
imagine how you wouldn't be i know yeah so i
1:50
mean yeah i mean every once in a while there's
1:55
like just like residual like just days where
2:01
i i don't know if i'm particularly thinking about
2:05
it but like it's kind of hard to describe it
2:08
you just uh i guess well we can we can pick up
2:15
i can i can yeah start going over some of this
2:17
stuff sure actually start you know no yeah it's
2:22
good now i'm warmed up yeah good Today's episode
2:27
is particularly meaningful for me as I have the
2:29
privilege of sitting down with Dr. Yusuf Razlan,
2:32
who's a pediatric anesthesiologist at Cincinnati
2:34
Children's Hospital. Yusuf isn't just a former
2:37
resident of mine, he's my friend and somebody
2:39
whose journey changed my life too. In March of
2:43
2022, Yusuf experienced a sudden cardiac arrest
2:46
while playing basketball and was admitted to
2:48
UC Hospital. Yusuf, I'm really honored to have
2:52
you here. It means a lot. I'm happy to be here.
2:57
So let's back up quite a bit. Sure. You were
3:02
my resident. Halfway into residency, I found
3:06
out that you had a cardiac condition that I didn't
3:10
really know that much about. You were born with
3:12
transposition of the great vessels. Tell me about
3:15
that. Yeah. So before that, I'll even go back
3:17
even further. Excellent. When I was a fourth
3:20
year medical student, I always bring this story
3:22
up because John Crow had a bigger part in my
3:25
coming to this residency program than he knows.
3:29
Because I did a, what do they call it when you
3:32
come back? Like a second look. Like a second
3:34
look. Because at the time I wasn't able to rotate.
3:37
It was before COVID, so I could still do a rotation
3:40
and like, I don't know, do those things. But
3:42
I did a second look because I liked the program
3:44
in my interview. I was with a resident that day,
3:46
and it was John's first year as an attending.
3:49
Oh, wow. And he was super nice to me, and he
3:51
was really nice to Zach Sazanski, who was the
3:53
resident that he was working with at the time.
3:56
And it was just good vibes. So, yeah, I don't
3:59
even remember your question. You were born with
4:03
transpositions from the great vessels. What was
4:06
that like for you growing up? How did that affect
4:09
your life? Yeah. So growing up, I was born with
4:13
L -transposition. And I won't go into the details
4:17
of that. But basically, I was born in congestive
4:21
heart failure. And they typically try to wait
4:25
to repair these procedures or to repair these
4:28
conditions when there's like a survivable shunt.
4:31
So I had a VSD at the time. So I was mixing appropriately
4:34
from an oxygenation standpoint. So they let me
4:37
grow for about 18 months. And they were continuously
4:40
medically optimizing me. until I got to the point
4:44
where I was on a really high digoxin load and
4:46
I was on Lasix as an 18 month old baby. And then
4:50
they, my parents and the doctors decided it was
4:52
time to have a corrective surgery. I had a ascending
4:55
Rostelli procedure where basically they, my right
5:00
side of the heart functions as my left and vice
5:03
versa. So yeah, growing up, I Went to the cardiologist
5:12
every six months, had a ton of imaging done all
5:15
the time just to make sure that my gradients
5:17
were good between my my neo valves and my and
5:21
my ventricles weren't getting overly thickened
5:23
and making sure that I wasn't having any shunting
5:26
in any inappropriate direction, making sure I
5:30
didn't have any leaks or anything like that.
5:32
And then when I was 14, I had a conduit. So when
5:37
I was a baby, I had a conduit placed. an rv to
5:40
pa conduit place that became really stenosis
5:42
when i was 14 i got um i got that conduit replaced
5:46
uh and i did it back at the original institution
5:49
that did my surgery back in boston i did it at
5:51
boston children's um and then uh yeah that bought
5:57
me another i don't know that was 2007 all the
6:03
way till 2019. And then I started getting stenosis
6:06
again, but this time they've come along, they
6:08
came a long way with like catheterization procedures
6:10
and stuff like that had, uh, had a stent placed
6:14
through that conduit and they placed a valve
6:16
to prevent more backflow. And it really, that
6:20
actually, that procedure alone changed my, like
6:23
totally changed my life. My exercise tolerance
6:26
went way up and, uh, things were great. So in
6:31
2019, when I had that procedure, I remember I
6:34
submitted my rank list for residency. And the
6:36
next day I had that procedure. Oh, wow. Yeah.
6:39
And then I matched. And then I did two and a
6:41
half years of residency. And then, yeah, like
6:44
John said, I never had any sort of conduction
6:47
issues. I always had some ectopic beats. And
6:50
I would go into arrhythmias that was noted on,
6:54
like, I would wear heart monitors sometimes within
6:57
those six -month appointments. But I never really
7:02
had anything that needed to be treated. I'm one
7:05
of very few people that have my procedure with
7:08
the specific correction. So for lack of a better
7:11
term, I'm kind of a guinea pig that's like walking
7:13
around. And I know there's me and some other
7:15
person out there that have very similar trajectories.
7:19
Weren't you one of the first people to have that
7:22
type of repair? It's a Japanese repair. So the
7:24
Japanese came up with this specific repair for
7:27
my... congenital issue um and i was one of the
7:31
first few people in this country to actually
7:33
have it done for my l transposition that i have
7:36
uh so yeah i um like i said i'm kind of like
7:43
a walking guinea pig with this and um never had
7:48
any conduction abnormalities or anything like
7:50
that other than the occasional ectopic beats,
7:54
maybe a couple of runs of some ventricular arrhythmias
7:58
that I could feel and I would know that, okay,
8:00
maybe I should take it easy. Nothing that really
8:03
prompted any of my cardiologists to really pursue.
8:07
They always brought up the idea of maybe getting
8:09
a pacemaker and a defibrillator at some point,
8:12
but I never really expressed the symptoms that
8:16
concern them. For people who don't know Yusuf
8:20
that might be listening, Yusuf? for all intents
8:23
and purposes, looks like a normal, maybe above
8:26
average in terms of the looks department guy
8:28
that you wouldn't ever suspect has anything like
8:32
this going on. He's well -developed, plenty of
8:35
muscle mass. He plays sports, right? It's sort
8:40
of remarkable. And when I found out that you
8:43
had that very serious heart condition sometime
8:48
during residency, I was really pretty surprised.
8:51
And you just sort of seem to shrug it off when
8:54
you talk about it. Try not to let it define me.
8:58
I know it sounds kind of cliche, but I don't
9:00
know. I've, I've, there have been situations
9:03
in my life where it has been a halting point.
9:07
Like for example, like when I was in middle school,
9:10
I couldn't play basketball because like the basketball
9:14
team, the workouts required, I couldn't, basically
9:17
anytime I just can't keep up. So from a cardiovascular
9:19
standpoint, I'm a little bit more limited in
9:22
terms of endurance. So anytime that really comes
9:24
up, but honestly, my parents and my family has
9:27
done such a good job of like helping me pivot
9:29
from those situations. And honestly, that's what
9:31
I feel like. That's why I'm here. Like it's directed
9:34
me to the friend groups that I have. And it's
9:36
directed me to like being surrounded by people
9:39
that like have boasted me up from an academic
9:42
standpoint. So everything happens for a reason.
9:45
And this condition hasn't really defined me.
9:48
It hadn't defined me until. The last two or three
9:51
years, it actually and when I say it defines
9:53
me now, I don't mean it negatively. I mean, it's
9:56
just like a I don't know. It was kind of like
9:59
a reality check of like you have this and you
10:02
have to respect it a lot more than I was previously.
10:06
So, yeah, I appreciate the compliment. So you
10:12
grew up with a medical parent. Is that right?
10:16
Yeah. My dad is a cardiac anesthesiologist. Do
10:20
you think that that made a difference in terms
10:23
of how you were raised or how he projected the
10:28
future for you? Or do you think that that's what
10:31
made you trend towards anesthesia? What's your
10:34
thought about that? If I told you that my dad
10:37
was a first -generation guy from Syria that's
10:40
a doctor, used to be a surgeon, came here, changed
10:43
his career trajectory, just as a foreign medical
10:47
grad, he went through that whole process. And
10:49
that's where he ended up. You would think that
10:51
I was like pressured or like was expected of
10:55
these things. But my parents are wonderful people
10:57
and they never expected anything of me. So I
11:01
would say that I was influenced by my parents
11:03
in the sense that like my dad is an amazing person
11:05
and watching him work as hard as he did growing
11:08
up, having a sick kid like me during his residency
11:11
and still going through and doing what I need,
11:15
like get like. Getting through his training while
11:18
providing me with what I need as a child with
11:20
a congenital anomaly while also raising my two
11:24
brothers as well. Seeing him, he was I mean,
11:28
sometimes he was late, but he was at all of our
11:30
games. He was always home for dinner. We would
11:34
visit him at work and he was always like awake
11:36
and happy for us to be there. So for all the
11:40
reasons that you wouldn't expect, I think that
11:42
that is more of their influence as. like my dad
11:46
i should say is as a medical parent but never
11:49
from an expectation standpoint like they just
11:52
motivated me to be my to be the best i could
11:55
be and um i don't know i just like succeed my
11:59
success comes from just wanting to make them
12:01
proud so having met your dad at a couple of different
12:05
occasions uh literally the i think worst and
12:09
best scenarios yeah both when you were in the
12:13
icu sedated after your illness or during your
12:18
illness. And then also later at your wedding,
12:21
I really got to see him in a couple of different
12:23
scenarios. And he, I would agree with you. I
12:26
think that he's a remarkable guy. Yeah. Very
12:28
inspiring. He's very grounded. He's very grounded.
12:31
He's very respectful of his surroundings. Like
12:34
he's, so just skip ahead a little bit. When I
12:36
was really sick in the ICU, my dad is a very
12:40
smart guy. My dad like trained. Did his cardiac
12:43
fellowship at the Cleveland Clinic. He's been
12:45
working at the VA in Cleveland doing cardiac
12:47
anesthesia for like 20 years. And I don't know
12:52
what it's like to be a parent as a doctor of
12:56
a really sick kid. But I'm sure you have opinions
13:00
when things are not particularly going well and
13:03
you want to know information. But this is even
13:05
something my wife mentioned that he was just
13:08
so grounded and so respectful. just left it up
13:14
to them to do what's best for me so that just
13:19
doesn't surprise me at all when i heard that
13:21
from him he's he's a religious guy he's we're
13:23
muslim and he's he's very much like a believer
13:26
in like god knows god's god's got whatever happens
13:31
god's got it so i think that's a big foundation
13:35
to that but yeah he's a he's like a wonderful
13:38
man yeah for sure having met him i was very impressed
13:42
with his demeanor and how he seemed to have everything
13:46
totally under control calm the whole time yeah
13:50
so i i would echo what you have to say um let's
13:57
go to march 27th sure um What do you remember
14:01
of that day? Do you remember that day at all?
14:03
So the day of my arrest, so I do remember March
14:07
27th because the day of my arrest was the 28th.
14:09
And the reason I remember that is because it's
14:11
my mom's birthday. Oh, wow. Yeah, isn't that
14:13
funny? But yeah, March 27th, at the time I was
14:18
a CA2, which means I was in my third year of
14:21
residency, second to last year of training before
14:24
I get my anesthesia certification. I was rotating
14:29
at Cincinnati Children's, which is something
14:31
that we all do as residents to get our pediatric
14:33
numbers. You had, in fact, just asked me for
14:36
a letter of recommendation for pediatric anesthesia
14:39
fellowship. So, yeah, I it didn't take me long
14:41
in my rotation there to know that this is what
14:45
I want to do. And, yeah, I had started like going
14:48
through the motions of like putting an application
14:50
together and getting things organized. But basically.
14:56
So are we going into the story of that day and
14:59
what I remember? Tell me what happened. Yeah,
15:02
so obviously some of it is a little bit gray.
15:06
The 27th was just a normal day. I was working.
15:09
I was sick. I had a cold. Turns out I actually
15:12
had the flu. Didn't really think much of it.
15:14
I wasn't super symptomatic or anything like that.
15:17
Started feeling better on the 28th. Went to work.
15:23
Had a normal day. Very busy day. i only know
15:26
that from looking through old texts of like texting
15:28
my attending like hey we're going to pick up
15:30
it was like one of those ent days where you do
15:32
like 10 cases and you're just doing high turnover
15:35
i don't remember any of it uh but um i remember
15:40
i was feeling better and like john said i'm i'm
15:43
a pretty fit guy i like to be active at least
15:45
three or four times a week and i at the time
15:48
i was playing a lot of basketball at the uc rec
15:50
center and um told my wife like i'm feeling better
15:54
i've been kind of cagey at home um i think it
15:58
was a monday uh and i i decided like i'm just
16:02
gonna go try it out i'm gonna go play some basketball
16:04
at the rec center so got off work around 4 30
16:07
uh called my wife we we facetimed while i was
16:11
walking into the gym and then um from what i'm
16:16
told i only lasted about five minutes before
16:20
i I told one of the undergrads that I didn't
16:24
feel good, like something's wrong, like I could
16:26
feel something was wrong, whether that be I was
16:28
like nauseous or if I was feeling like palpitations
16:31
that wouldn't stop. I don't know. I don't know
16:33
what I was feeling. But basically, the look on
16:36
my face scared this kid to the point where he
16:38
like stopped the game, booked it to the lifeguard
16:42
station and told them that something was really
16:46
wrong. And then basically it was just like a
16:49
code red, like everybody's. Coming, I guess technically
16:52
it's a code blue, but everyone's, everyone's
16:55
running to the court. Everything's stopped. Um,
16:58
at that point I'm, I've, I've arrested, I'm,
17:01
I'm in a shockable rhythm. I'm, I'm pulseless.
17:05
Uh, they do 10 minutes. So lucky for me, it was
17:08
like five, five 30 shift change. So there was
17:11
a million lifeguards there. All of their staff
17:14
and managers were there. So they were, they were
17:16
running a, like a full code situation. um called
17:20
an ambulance i i needed 10 minutes of chest compressions
17:24
and um i was shocked multiple times before they
17:28
before ems arrived i think by the time ems arrived
17:31
i was um i was my heart was beating again i was
17:34
back um but um i don't know anything after that
17:39
i don't know what my mental status was like i
17:41
don't know what my if i was intubated i don't
17:43
know what was going on i just know that they
17:45
packed me in the ambulance and took me about
17:47
a mile and a half down the road back to work
17:49
At UC, I had and it's so crazy now because I
17:55
think about I have such a vivid image of it because
17:59
I mean, this is where I worked. Right. So I know
18:02
exactly what it's like. They put me in the shrew
18:04
and they did the assessment, stripped me naked.
18:09
I'm sure they I guess they didn't they weren't
18:14
sure about my neurologic exam. Cause I don't,
18:18
I don't know if I was showing anything or whatever,
18:20
but they, they, they put me down and tubed me,
18:22
put a breathing tube in. I actually do remember
18:26
a little bit about this. You were apparently
18:29
fighting a lot at the time and that's why they
18:33
intubated you. Okay. It's because you're in a,
18:38
of course you wouldn't have any memory of this,
18:40
but you were kind of swinging. Yeah. Uh, so one
18:44
of my friends in the ER, I, now that you mentioned
18:46
it, I do. I do remember that, uh, her, she was
18:49
the one who intubated me. One of my good friends,
18:51
she like, I texted her like months later. Cause
18:54
I'd heard that she was there. Uh, and we worked
18:57
as interns together. Like when you're working
18:58
in the ER as an intern, you spend a lot of time
19:00
with them and you become friends with some of
19:01
them. Um, and she was so happy. She, she, uh,
19:05
shot me a text and well, I texted her actually
19:08
to, to thank her. And then we talked for a while,
19:11
but she, she told me what kind of what happened.
19:13
That's kind of how I have this, um, image but
19:17
uh yeah so from there uh i went to the cardiac
19:21
icu um intubated when i was fighting and when
19:26
i was coding i i vomited and i aspirated so i
19:30
had a pretty significant aspiration pneumonia
19:32
um to the point where it wasn't getting better
19:36
after uh about four or five days i was i wasn't
19:42
oxygenating um I was ventilating, not oxygenating.
19:46
And, um, I was requiring like ARDS treatment.
19:49
Like I was paralyzed. They, um, had to prone
19:53
me multiple, like several days for several days,
19:55
just to, just to prevent me from having to go
19:58
on ECMO. And then, uh, as soon as like the ECMO
20:04
conversation started happening, that's when,
20:06
um, I turned a corner about a week after I was
20:10
in the ICU. Um, But yeah, I got better and eventually
20:18
progressed to like them weaning my sedation and
20:22
got X. I remember them weaning my sedation and
20:26
talking to me. We can talk a little bit about
20:28
like what I remember from all of this, from like
20:31
being in the ICU specifically, because that's
20:32
a whole story in itself. But yeah, it got to
20:36
about on April 5th and then I was discharged.
20:42
from directly from the icu on april 7th so which
20:46
is my birthday funny enough but i don't remember
20:48
that yeah so um one of the toxic things about
20:52
being in medicine and being a patient is that
20:54
you know exactly what you need to do to get the
20:56
hell out of the icu so i knew the i like that's
20:59
the icu we rotate in so i know the icu checklist
21:01
so i knew that i had to i had to go to the bathroom
21:05
i had to um walk around work with physical therapy
21:09
occupational therapy basically show that i'm
21:12
like no longer sedated my mental status is good
21:16
i'm able to function i knew that i needed like
21:19
some sort of device placed and it wasn't going
21:21
to get done at uc so i knew i needed the life
21:24
vest so i i like really like pushed on getting
21:27
because i just wanted to get out of there i was
21:29
so like people were coming into my room like
21:32
all out of love because people were happy i was
21:34
doing better but uh all these nurses that i know
21:37
are like working i mean it's all in good faith
21:40
but it's uncomfortable like to be in a room i
21:43
know exactly what room i'm in and i know exactly
21:46
the team that's like rounding on me and i was
21:49
just ready to go so i got discharged with a life
21:52
vest like two days after i got extubated tell
21:56
me what a life fest is so a life vest is kind
21:59
of a bridge therapy or it's like a destination
22:01
therapy therapy for people who need a defibrillator
22:05
of some sort so if you're somebody who's not
22:08
um a candidate for like an icd or an internal
22:11
cardiac defibrillator some people will just wear
22:14
a life vest forever um or if you're me and you
22:18
know you're going to get a defibrillator but
22:20
at a later date because you need to like work
22:22
out the kinks for me the kinks were that i needed
22:24
to um get it done at children's because of my
22:27
anatomy it's very complex and they and they know
22:30
better than they do here um so i would i took
22:34
this vest home um and i And I had it for about
22:37
a day and a half until my dad called me and he
22:40
just said, I really don't feel good about you
22:42
just like being home with this vest that may
22:45
or may not work. So I'm like, what happened was
22:49
we coordinated and I just like went and got directly
22:51
admitted to children's in the cardiology department.
22:54
Right. And I just sat there for two weeks, got
22:57
my diagnostic cath, uh, with, um, the electrophysiology
23:01
folks there. And then once they've, once they,
23:03
they, they tried to like, uh, figure out where
23:07
this arrhythmia came from but they really couldn't
23:10
figure it out which is kind of like unsettling
23:12
for me sure uh but they were able to um reproduce
23:16
it and um they were able to shock me out of it
23:19
in the cath lab which kind of shows that like
23:22
okay that means that like this defibrillator
23:24
that i have now um can probably Help me if this
23:29
comes up again. Right. More than likely, I should
23:31
say. And then it has the pacer function, too.
23:34
So. Right. I've had it for about almost three
23:37
years now. So, yeah. Wow. Yeah. I will tell you
23:42
the story of how I learned what happened to you
23:45
is I came in to work that next morning and Mark
23:50
Cassidy came up to me and he said, hey, did you
23:54
hear Yusuf had a code? And I was like, oh, all
23:57
right. It's like, what happened to the patient?
24:02
Because I thought he was just telling me that
24:05
one of my residents had run a code or that something
24:09
had happened, which happens from time to time
24:11
to anesthesia residents. They will run codes
24:15
from time to time. I had no concept through that
24:19
whole conversation that it was actually you who
24:22
had coded. And then... And he told me that. I
24:27
was like, oh, I guess I'll just check in with
24:28
Yusuf later and make sure he's doing all right.
24:32
And I didn't think much more of it. And then
24:35
as more and more people started saying, hey,
24:37
did you hear what happened to Yusuf? I was like,
24:39
whoa, what are we talking about here? And then
24:42
it wasn't until later that I found out that it
24:44
was actually you. I have the email from Friedrich.
24:54
that he sent out on 328. I haven't even seen
24:58
this email before. Dear colleagues, as most of
25:01
you are probably aware by now, a resident member
25:03
of our UC anesthesiology family, Dr. Yusuf Razlan,
25:07
was admitted to the UC CVICU last evening after
25:09
suffering a cardiac arrest while playing basketball
25:11
and undergoing ACLS in the out -of -hospital
25:15
setting. What's not mentioned, by the way, as
25:18
a brief pause in this email is that ACLS in the
25:22
out -of -hospital setting has an approximately
25:24
10 % survival rate. Back to the email. Doctors
25:30
Wojciechowski, Bailey, Joseph, Satoris, and Howershock
25:33
have been in contact with Yusuf's parents, and
25:35
while they allowed this medical information to
25:37
be shared with the department, I would implore
25:38
all of you to please respect Yusuf's privacy
25:41
in the days ahead. For now, please rest assured
25:43
that our friend and colleague is in the best
25:44
possible hands, and we will keep you updated
25:46
as the situation progresses and as his parents
25:49
permit. There were actually a lot of emails that
25:53
went out saying, do not go to the CVICU. They
25:58
had people that were specifically watching and
26:03
trying to make sure to give you the maximum amount
26:06
of privacy. And the resident who was up in the
26:11
CVICU at the time, that was a tough assignment
26:15
because they really... knew more about what was
26:20
going on with your care but because of HIPAA
26:23
and everything else couldn't share it was it
26:25
Connor it was yeah I remember we we talked a
26:28
lot about it because I I mean like I I have access
26:31
to my notes right like I have my chart so I I
26:33
I saw there was a couple days or in a couple
26:36
he was on nights a few like a few of the nights
26:39
that I was there and he would write like progress
26:41
notes because it's his assignment like I'm I'm
26:44
their patient so yeah I really empathize with
26:48
him on that. There was another email that gave
26:53
the program directors permission to provide daily
26:57
updates. And they said that somebody will touch
27:01
base with a daytime or nighttime intensivist
27:04
each day to obtain information for an update
27:06
and send out an email to the residents and faculty
27:08
to streamline communication. Because for a long
27:11
period of time, that is all anybody could talk
27:15
about. And when people would say, hey, how are
27:18
you doing? Everybody knew that was in reference
27:20
to like, how are you processing this? I remember
27:24
when the residents started finding out about
27:28
this, everybody was still in the operating room.
27:30
And there was a concerted effort to get all of
27:34
the residents out of all of the ORs. And it was
27:37
actually amazing that we were able to relieve
27:40
everyone very quickly, thanks to... Our CRNA
27:44
colleagues who understood the gravity of the
27:46
situation and were very helpful. But we got all
27:50
of the residents out and in the resident lounge
27:54
and we all just kind of sat there and tried to
27:58
be a community together. Yeah. It's great. Yeah.
28:01
I mean, you guys made me like posters and I still
28:04
have all that stuff. I can't, I can't see. Yeah,
28:07
that's it. You just pulled it up on his email.
28:10
Yeah. Yes. I still have that. I can't, I can't
28:13
like ever get rid of it. I don't think my cats
28:16
have kind of torn it up a little bit, but it's
28:18
like, I don't know. I still have it. And I still
28:21
like see it every, like pretty much every day.
28:24
Oh really? Yeah. I just have it like in my room.
28:27
Like, uh, it's up, it's behind a bookshelf, but
28:31
I can see like, I can see it there. Cause I just
28:34
can't get, I can't like get myself to get rid
28:36
of it. I don't know why. Yeah. Yeah. I imagine.
28:39
So I remember the residents making it. putting
28:42
stuff on it i put a little gold star on it yeah
28:45
like when it was i know yeah i i remember graduating
28:48
from residency and um i don't remember who it
28:53
was it might have been houston or he was bragging
28:55
about like how he had two gold stars and like
28:57
i was like i have one he's like it's not on your
28:59
badge you say i know but i i have one it's there
29:02
somewhere so yeah wow i i remember being really
29:09
torn up about it and the thing that we always
29:12
shared a passion for was our basketball teams
29:15
having done my residency in oklahoma city i'm
29:17
a big okc thunder fan and uh yusuf always has
29:21
been a big calves fan right and the way that
29:25
i um helped process some of my feelings about
29:30
all this is normally every day i wear a okc thunder
29:34
themed scrub cap but i purchased and wore a Cleveland
29:40
Cavaliers scrub cap for a long time telling myself
29:47
that once you got better I'd give you that hat
29:51
I still wear it do you really all the time especially
29:53
this year because we've been winning so much
29:55
yeah I mean it's a great time no I still wear
29:57
it I think about you every time it was very sentimental
29:59
and I appreciated it wow yeah man I didn't I
30:03
still next time I wear it I'll wear it this week
30:05
because We're still winning 15 in a row. So I'll
30:08
send you a picture. I still wear it every day
30:10
for the most part. Well, when our teams inevitably
30:13
meet in the finals and you lose by just one game,
30:17
it'll be very sad. Yeah, we'll see about that.
30:22
That's going to be great. I hope that happens.
30:25
Me too, actually. Part of why I'm secondarily
30:30
a Cavs fan, although I'm primarily and will always
30:33
be a Thunder fan. um is purely because of you
30:37
yeah uh totally just being a fan of you made
30:41
me more of a calves fan thanks man yeah it's
30:44
the same goes for oklahoma city even though they
30:48
were always likable they're both small market
30:51
teams that you can't help but root for you know
30:53
i agree it just speaks to good management anyway
30:57
i don't want to turn this into a basketball podcast
30:59
although we certainly could yeah we could probably
31:02
talk for another hour about that Um, let's talk
31:06
about you being in the ICU. Let's go back to
31:09
that timeframe and what you remember. Yeah. So
31:12
you were mentioning something earlier about how
31:15
you were feeling and processing and some of the
31:18
emotions that you felt. Tell me more about what
31:22
you were remembering. Yeah. So I guess one of
31:25
my issues when I was in the ICU was that they
31:27
were having a really hard time with sedation.
31:29
Right. I started having some like, uh, propofol
31:34
i think it was like resembling resemblance of
31:38
propofol infusion syndrome so p started turning
31:41
green um like from like my heart started getting
31:44
a little sad um so then they started to have
31:48
to switch to like other things like more like
31:50
opioid focused and like um like benzos and ketamine
31:55
and i just um My dreams when I was out, like
32:01
I thought I thought I was dead. Like I like I
32:04
had the conscious thought of like this. Like
32:08
I was so comfortable, like I was never uncomfortable.
32:10
I was very relaxed. But but my dreams were so
32:15
weird that I just was convinced like I must something's
32:18
something happened. Something's like I had the
32:21
conscious thought of like, this is weird. Like
32:24
I don't feel anything, but I'm like making thoughts
32:27
and I'm. Yeah, exactly. It's weird. But it wasn't
32:32
until they started like weaning some sedation
32:35
once I started getting a little bit better just
32:38
to like assess my neuro status that I can almost
32:41
mostly I can I can mostly compare it to like
32:44
being underwater. Really? Yeah. So like I'm open.
32:47
I'm trying to open my I can open my eyes a little
32:49
bit, but it's just like as if you're opening
32:51
your eyes underwater because they're putting
32:53
like stuff in your eyes to keep sure to keep
32:55
them moist and prevent you from getting like
32:57
a. like a corneal abrasion or like, uh, I don't
33:01
know. I'm trying to think of like opto terms,
33:03
but, um, like dryness and stuff like that. Um,
33:08
and then, uh, just like the muffled hearing and
33:13
like familiar voices, like my mom and my wife
33:15
talking to me and Suzanne, I remember hearing
33:17
Suzanne's voice and I was just like, what, this
33:21
is just a weird dream. Like, but I'm comfortable
33:23
because I know these voices and these are like,
33:25
Like my mom and my wife, like those are my comfort
33:28
voices. You know what I mean? And then it was
33:32
that day, like April 4th, the day before I got
33:37
extubated, I was still too weak because I was
33:39
paralyzed for a while. Right. But they were able
33:41
to wean my sedation. I didn't pass my RISB score,
33:44
so they couldn't get the tube out. But I was
33:46
able to like communicate and like say like to
33:50
yes, no questions. I was trying to talk through
33:52
my tube. Couldn't. I was too weak to write. But
33:55
I kind of had like a grasp, like I'm in a hospital.
33:59
I'm surrounding like my brothers are in this
34:01
room. Like, where the hell am I in Atlanta? Like,
34:03
where am I? My brother, he was training in Atlanta
34:06
at the time. And then my brother who lived in
34:09
Seattle was there. And I was like, this is weird.
34:11
Like, I'm sure I'm dreaming. But then I kind
34:17
of like Suzanne told me everything. And it was
34:20
still like a dream to me at that point. Like,
34:22
oh, you're. You're at UC. You had this happen.
34:26
You were playing basketball. And, like, I was,
34:30
like, joking with everybody because I didn't
34:32
realize the gravity, like, what had actually
34:34
happened because I'm still out of it. I can't
34:37
really move. Like, I don't really understand.
34:39
Like, I have my brothers here. I have my buddy
34:42
Ish, who is, like, an IM resident. He was in
34:44
there. And another buddy of mine was there. John
34:47
Kane was there. And it was just such a random
34:50
group of people that I was like, what the hell
34:52
is going on? Um, and I remember it very vividly.
34:55
And then, um, I guess they like increased my
34:59
sedation for that night. Cause I, I went, I was
35:01
out. And then the next day, um, I just remember
35:05
one of the respiratory therapists pulled my tube
35:08
and I was, I was just in a K hole for like two
35:11
days, like a ketamine hole. I was having really,
35:14
really bad, uh, Once everything wore off and
35:18
it was just the ketamine that was still there,
35:20
probably ketamine and benzos, I was having some
35:23
really crazy dreams, really crazy visions. I
35:27
was seeing things. I was hearing things. And
35:30
that took a day and a half. I didn't sleep a
35:32
wink. Tortured my nurses. Tortured my wife. I'm
35:37
sure. But they all knew that's not me. So when
35:40
I look back and I think about, wow, how terrible
35:42
I was to everybody, they all know me. So, and
35:46
I went back and thank them all and gave them
35:48
all big hugs and, but yeah, then I got some clarity
35:52
and then I was out of there. Like in a day I
35:56
did everything. I was like, went to the bathroom,
35:58
walked around, uh, organized cardiac rehab at
36:01
home, got my life vest, called the life vest
36:04
people myself. Really? I swear. Yep. Called them
36:07
myself. The best part is that everyone thought
36:09
I was in a K hole the next day. I would, I like
36:11
had, I'd kind of shooken it for the most part.
36:13
Sure. Called them myself. The lady showed up
36:15
at like 6 a .m. Nobody knew that she came, but
36:19
I did. I got fitted and everything. And they
36:21
came and rounded on me that morning. And I was
36:23
like, yeah, the life vest. People came and everyone's
36:27
like, they didn't believe you. Oh no. You said
36:29
like seeing things. And I was like, no, it was
36:31
like a nice blonde lady came and she fit it in
36:34
there. Just like, that was probably your nurse.
36:36
I was like, no, my nurse was a black lady. Like
36:38
totally. And then, and then the best is that
36:42
they dropped a note in the chart. And then I
36:44
think everybody realized like, okay, I think
36:47
he's, I think he's back to himself. And yeah.
36:50
Wow. I remember. um i i had the privilege of
36:57
coming to visit you a few times i i was part
37:00
of the effort with the kudos committee to collect
37:05
a lot of people really cared and wanted to send
37:09
notes to you and to your family and we set up
37:14
an email address that's normally just for people
37:18
to send compliments to each other uh called the
37:22
kudos uh email but we repurposed it so that people
37:28
could send messages to you and your family and
37:31
we we got hundreds of people who typed brief
37:37
notes to you or sometimes longer notes and uh
37:40
i was fortunate to be able to come and deliver
37:43
those uh having gotten permission yeah um to
37:48
your family and i i remember giving those to
37:51
you and every time I went and saw you briefly
37:55
and kind of got to tap you on the shoulder and
37:58
told you I loved you. Um, Alexander was always
38:02
there. She was there every single time. I don't
38:04
think she actually. No, never left, never left.
38:07
Uh, so yeah, she was a, she was a resident at
38:10
the time herself and thankfully her program was
38:14
super understanding, but she was here for five
38:15
weeks. Her program, which isn't in Ohio. No,
38:19
she trained in Florida. um just kind of went
38:22
on a hiatus they were super understanding thankfully
38:25
she's like she was a really good resident and
38:27
she was she always passed her exams always did
38:29
well always like picked up for other people so
38:31
obviously people had no problem picking up for
38:33
her right um and i'm i'm i mean we're both so
38:38
close with everyone there we were anyway back
38:40
when we were she was training um they were all
38:43
good friends of mine too so it was hard for everybody
38:46
um Not just like my family, but like all my friends
38:50
here, all of her friends. Uh, so yeah, she was,
38:54
she never left my side. We had gotten engaged
38:57
like a year before that. And then we had like
39:00
our, uh, like our Muslim wedding, uh, maybe like
39:03
three or four months before that. And yeah, she
39:06
was like pretty much my wife at that point. Right.
39:09
From my, from my perspective, we hadn't had like
39:13
a big traditional wedding, but yeah. Well, you
39:17
did have a big traditional wedding later, which
39:20
was a really great time, by the way. It was one
39:22
of the best ones I've had. Yeah, best day of
39:23
my life. So a lot of times people don't know
39:27
what to say or how to respond to somebody after
39:30
they've had a big traumatic event like you've
39:33
had. So what was helpful or maybe not helpful
39:37
to you in your interactions with people afterwards?
39:40
I know we talked about how it doesn't define
39:42
you. But what advice would you give to people
39:46
who are wanting to help in these sorts of scenarios?
39:52
Yeah. I think this is a good question because
39:55
this is something I unpacked a lot in therapy.
40:01
And I had to really reel it back because one
40:05
thing that I noted was that when people were
40:07
trying to talk to me and show their gratitude
40:09
for me and... Um, just talk about it, which I
40:15
don't have a problem talking about it. Sure.
40:17
Um, everyone's trauma is different. You know,
40:20
everyone has bad things that happen to them in
40:23
life and traumatic events. And, uh, like the
40:27
severity is subjective, but, um, I learned a
40:32
lot about empathy through this. Just, uh, one
40:35
thing that I, that I've learned that I don't
40:38
do anymore, uh, just as a person. i don't try
40:41
to compare someone else's trauma to my own like
40:44
a lot of times people would tell me like stories
40:46
that happened to them when they were trying to
40:47
like empathize with me and that's just like trump
40:50
that like i i used it used to i used to feel
40:53
more sad after that because like people don't
40:55
realize you're trying to like have a have a common
40:57
bridge with the with with someone that you're
41:00
trying to talk to but all you're necessarily
41:02
doing is just like offloading your trauma onto
41:05
somebody else um and like I really, it took me
41:09
a lot of time to, um, and a lot of guidance to
41:14
just realize that it's all in good intention.
41:16
Like people don't know, like, how do you talk
41:18
to somebody who's died before? Like, that's how
41:21
I, like, how do you, how do you like have that
41:23
conversation? You know? So I think it was all
41:26
just out of like people's genuity. Um, but I
41:31
would say like, everyone's got their own issues
41:36
and trauma that, um, It's just not it wasn't
41:39
healthy for me to hear other people's situational.
41:42
Sure. Like situations, I guess. Just just having
41:48
people tell me, like, I'm glad you're OK. That
41:50
was like the most when people like I would bump
41:52
into I bumped into people in the hospital every
41:55
freaking day for like six months. People that
41:58
I didn't I didn't see their face. So like every
42:01
time your first interaction is like a big emotional
42:04
like, oh, my God, I'm so. like you know like
42:07
you you won't see somebody for like six months
42:09
and then you see them and then you haven't you
42:11
haven't thought about this day and so long and
42:14
then they then you just talk about it yeah they
42:16
just talk about it and the best interactions
42:18
that i had were just like brief that were like
42:20
i'm glad you're okay um so i don't know anytime
42:25
that i hear tragic news or like somebody's going
42:28
through something i keep it brief and i just
42:31
let them know that i'm thinking about them And
42:34
I don't try to belabor it unless they want to
42:36
talk. Like I'm, I'm happy to talk anytime. Um,
42:40
but, uh, I don't know, sometimes, especially
42:44
if we weren't close before. Sure. It was hard
42:46
to have those conversations with people. Um,
42:49
but yeah. So let's go less than a year after
42:55
your event. It's January, 2023. You're watching
42:57
Monday night football. Yeah. Uh, DeMar Hamlin
43:00
collapses on the field. What's what's. going
43:03
through your mind what are you thinking so oh
43:07
yeah uh it was just a it was just like a bird's
43:13
eye view of something like it was very eerie
43:16
for me i mean it was eerie for everybody but
43:18
um for me specifically like that moment within
43:23
five minutes i've got probably like 15 text messages
43:25
from different people like are you watching this
43:27
game my mom called me my wife called me um And
43:32
then I'm looking at it and I knew like when they
43:35
go to commercial like that and there's a big
43:37
crowd of people. I was sitting with my roommate
43:41
at the time and I just said, I think they're
43:42
doing chest compressions on this young man. And
43:45
lo and behold, like they get back, the tone of
43:49
the game is super somber. People are crying on
43:52
the field and I just. kind of knew what was going
43:55
on um my mom called me crying she's just like
43:58
this is what happened this is like i'm getting
44:00
like really my mom got really traumatized um
44:04
i imagine there's a big ptsd component so then
44:07
for me it was just like having a different perspective
44:09
on the whole thing because like for me when i
44:11
had my arrest i was fine i was asleep in the
44:15
icu i don't remember anything i just woke up
44:17
i had some rib pain because i cracked some ribs
44:20
but otherwise like It was all just emotional
44:24
and mostly just like supporting my family and
44:28
my wife emotionally. But now I'm like seeing
44:31
it from the other end of like, this is really
44:33
happening. And this person's mom is watching
44:36
this. And if he's got a partner, she's watching
44:39
this. And yeah, it was just a different perspective
44:44
for sure. So tell me a little bit more. How you
44:51
got involved with that situation afterwards?
44:53
Sure. So Damar was here at UC for about a week.
44:57
I don't know, maybe less than a week. I kept
45:01
my distance. I was like, you know, keeping tabs.
45:06
But in the back of my mind, I knew like this
45:10
guy got immediate CPR, which is the most important.
45:14
When you have an out of hospital cardiac arrest,
45:17
the most important thing is witnessed. And like,
45:20
like very limited downtime before compression
45:23
start. So I knew that they were doing compressions.
45:26
I knew they secured his airway. I knew that,
45:28
um, I didn't know, I shouldn't say that, but
45:32
like, I felt pretty confident, like this guy's
45:33
going to be okay. Like, I think he got here.
45:37
Um, and he's, it was just so similar to me. It
45:41
was so similar, like witnessed arrest, immediate
45:44
compressions, uh, got him here. Got him settled
45:48
in the ICU. They're doing all the things for
45:50
him. So my my my view of it was like a little
45:56
bit less morbid than everyone else, I think,
45:58
because I just kind of had this feeling like
46:00
I think this guy's going to be OK. And you're
46:03
seeing all the news cameras and people and everything's
46:05
like very sad for like days. It was like all
46:08
the news, all the sports news, everything, all
46:10
my notifications on my phone, Twitter, whatever.
46:12
Sure. And I just had like a different perspective
46:15
of it, of just like. I think this guy's going
46:17
to be okay. And then you start hearing things
46:20
around the hospital, you know, like he's doing
46:23
better and things are going in the right direction
46:26
and blah, blah, blah. And then my, I think it
46:30
was my mom. She, she made the nudge. My mom made
46:33
this comment of like, you know, I didn't really
46:37
have anybody at the hospital to kind of tell
46:40
me everything was going to be okay. Like people
46:43
told me that all the time, but. like nobody that
46:47
nobody credible like you know like nobody like
46:50
other than like yeah you have doctors and stuff
46:52
like that but nobody nobody who's like gone through
46:54
something as eerily similar within in a in a
46:57
vicinity like as being in the same city in the
47:00
same hospital same similar situation i mean i
47:03
have my congenital stuff and he's otherwise from
47:06
what i know otherwise healthy that just having
47:08
this random thing but um we're both like young
47:11
men that like this really was unexpected right
47:14
uh doing things that we love to do and like it
47:19
totally just changes your perspective of like
47:21
what do i do after this like i can i work like
47:26
immediately after i got um out of the hospital
47:29
like the question of like can i drive that was
47:32
a big that was huge like i couldn't drive for
47:35
six months after my arrest like from the date
47:37
of my arrest so like that was life -altering
47:40
but like i had there was an end date to it so
47:43
like but i didn't know that so there was like
47:46
a lot of depression leading up to like i can't
47:48
drive nobody's had this conversation with me
47:50
can i be in an operating room by myself like
47:53
is that legal like what are like what does this
47:55
mean am i done i don't have disability insurance
47:58
i don't have this that like everything kind of
48:00
just like clobbers you at once um and i think
48:04
that um having somebody like myself to go and
48:09
talk to my mom And tell her, like, it's going
48:12
to be okay. And I know that because this literally
48:15
just happened to me. So I had to jump through
48:19
some hoops to get there. Basically, I just broke
48:21
all the rules. And I just went because everyone
48:24
told me no. Because it was pretty lock and key
48:27
in the ICU. And I figured, you know what, this
48:30
department will have my back. So I kind of ignored
48:34
permission and I just went. And I just walked
48:37
into his room. Um, when I knew it was appropriate
48:40
and, uh, just kind of when I went in my street
48:44
clothes, just so that I wouldn't give this illusion
48:46
that like, I'm a doctor coming to update you
48:48
or anything. I just wanted to go in there. I
48:50
quickly like introduced myself and said, I'm
48:52
here as a doctor here, but I'm also just here
48:55
as a friend. Um, and it was like 7 PM. So everything
48:59
was chill. Nobody was rounding. Nobody was like
49:01
doing anything. And we did, I just sat in his
49:04
room for like 15 minutes and we talked about
49:06
it. Um, his parents were there and they were
49:09
really appreciative. And he asked me for my contact
49:12
information just to talk. Uh, cause like they
49:16
were like, if, when I walked in that room, it
49:18
was like deer in headlights. People don't realize
49:20
like, yeah, this guy's a pro athlete, but he's
49:22
a kid. Right. And, um, like every, every time
49:27
someone comes in the room, when you're in that
49:29
situation is like, uh, you don't know what's,
49:34
what they're going to tell you. So. um we just
49:37
became friends uh and then i don't know i got
49:41
his number i was like he's never gonna text me
49:42
it's fine like i just i'm glad i was able to
49:44
like get like say something to him and hopefully
49:47
i helped like i had something i felt like i had
49:50
something to give that was um productive and
49:53
that was a little bit different from maybe what
49:55
they've been experiencing this week and it turns
49:58
out i made a big difference for that guy uh and
50:00
his family i like they know me by name Um, he's
50:04
mentioned me multiple times, um, when it comes
50:07
to his like recovery and stuff like that. Uh,
50:09
we still chat every once in a while, just catch
50:11
up, nothing crazy. Um, but I feel like I made
50:16
a good impact on somebody from like something
50:19
terrible that happened to me. Um, you don't really
50:22
like have that outlook when you're going through
50:24
it. Um, so like when I was able to like help
50:27
somebody that went through something so similar
50:30
to myself, it like, helped me too because i was
50:34
i was in a funk like at that time i was still
50:36
i mean i had just started driving at that point
50:38
right but um i was like taking an uber to work
50:41
every day and i couldn't get groceries i couldn't
50:44
like go to the gym i couldn't do anything because
50:46
it's like i gotta pay for this and like i don't
50:50
want to deal with all that and it's just like
50:52
you get into like a depression and sure i don't
50:55
know yeah so uh that was like an uplifting thing
50:57
for me that kind of helped me get through the
50:59
rest of my residency honestly because that was
51:01
like the home stretch Yeah. Yeah. Somehow. And
51:05
this I think was the craziest part of the whole
51:08
thing. You still somehow graduated on time. Yeah.
51:12
I only missed about a month of work. Yeah. Maybe
51:16
like five weeks, but I don't know. I was going
51:19
nuts. I was at home. I was feeling okay. I was
51:22
going on long walks. I wasn't really getting
51:24
super winded. Uh, the only thing that was like
51:26
painful was like my incision from when they put
51:29
the defibrillator in, but that was. That was
51:31
like the only limiting factor. And I got back
51:34
to work and I worked, I think I was with Sajan
51:36
for a week, one of my co -residents. And he's
51:39
like, I don't know why I'm here. You're good.
51:42
I talked to him a lot, actually, just to check
51:46
on how you were doing. And then I think I remember
51:48
I worked with you one of those very first days.
51:51
Yeah. I gave you one of my quizzes. That was
51:56
when I knew you were neurologically intact. That's
51:58
when you aced one of my... tougher quizzes yeah
52:00
it's like wow okay well i guess he's all he's
52:04
all set yeah i mean they did a good they they
52:06
were good to me they they a bunch like for up
52:10
and i think i don't think i took a call shift
52:12
it was months like people were just i didn't
52:17
even ask for that people were just like taking
52:19
them um people were just looking out for me and
52:23
then i finally had to say like i can work Like
52:26
I can work on a Saturday guys. Like you don't
52:28
have to, I can sleep at this hospital. It's fine.
52:30
Um, but yeah, it was like true. Like the, the
52:34
community here was amazing, especially like just
52:37
within the department. I mean, I knew, I knew
52:40
I like, this was my family away from home. I'm
52:42
not from here. Right. Like, um, so like this
52:46
was my family before that event. And then it
52:47
just got even more solidified for sure. Well,
52:52
at the end of these, I usually ask people what
52:54
their style points, points of personal preference
52:57
in the OR that have helped them succeed through
53:02
their careers are. And I want to ask you sort
53:05
of the same question, but obviously with a little
53:07
bit of a different flavor based on everything
53:09
that you went through. What style points do you
53:12
have to offer for us based on your whole experience?
53:18
Let's see how I can tie this. I think. And ultimately,
53:23
when I, I don't know, I think the thing that
53:31
I preach and practice the most is just respect.
53:34
And I think that having like a, like such a grounding
53:38
experience. And like, I always tell people, the
53:43
thing that happened to me that impacted me the
53:46
most was the impact that this event had on just
53:49
my perspective on life. Just like the. Like I
53:51
went from like being a medical student to a resident.
53:55
Like I need to do this. I need to do that. I
53:57
need to do this fellowship. I have to do this
54:00
research and I'm behind on this, that, the other.
54:02
And then this happened to me. And then I, and
54:04
then just like everything became a bird's eye
54:06
view. Like the perspective totally changed. Like
54:10
family first. Like I hadn't, I, I don't, I. I
54:16
thought that everything was good with my family,
54:18
but I realized I had gotten such tunnel vision,
54:21
like being in residency and like just pursuing
54:24
my goals and my relationship. And like, I just
54:28
had no like, um, big picture ability. So what
54:34
came with that was just like loving everybody
54:37
around me and just having respect for everybody.
54:41
Um, And I just preach that in the OR. I'm so
54:45
nice. I try to be. I'm being really facetious
54:48
right now. But I try to be so nice to everybody
54:50
that I work with. And as far as I know, my reputation
54:54
with the people I work with at my job, I only
54:58
get good feedback because of just how respectful
55:00
I am to the nurse that's orienting in the room,
55:04
the circulating nurse in the OR, the surgeons,
55:08
the fellows, the medical students. I treat everybody
55:12
exactly the same. There's no ego from the anesthesia
55:16
side of things in the room that I work in. And
55:20
it's just good vibes. And that just makes the
55:23
day better for everybody. Even when you have
55:25
a really sick kid, if you're just positive and
55:29
you just wear it on your sleeve that everything's
55:33
going to be okay, and even if things aren't going
55:35
great, if you just try to... try to get through
55:40
it and don't get stressed and just know that
55:43
everybody has a job and that they're doing their
55:45
job to the best of their ability, uh, without
55:48
like upsetting people in the room. That's, those
55:50
are my style points than the way that I practice.
55:53
Um, I've only been in attending for about six
55:55
months, but I've just gotten a lot of feedback
55:58
of when things are hitting the fan. Uh, like
56:03
Yusuf is like, has a finger on the pulse and
56:07
knows like, who to call. And that just comes
56:11
from being calm and being respectful and not
56:13
trying to do other people's job and trusting
56:15
other people and just having that respect. And
56:18
I, I like to think that I was like that before
56:20
this event, but it definitely, I definitely started
56:23
being more mindful of it for sure. From everything
56:27
that I know and have talked to other people about,
56:32
those are straight facts. So I can confirm all
56:36
of those things. I appreciate it. Thank you so
56:39
much for joining us. And I really appreciate
56:41
you coming here. Yeah, man. It's an honor. Thanks
56:47
for listening to this month's episode of Style
56:49
Points. As a reminder, every episode is 100 %
56:53
organic, ethically sourced, farm to table, and
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free of artificial preservatives or additives,
56:58
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57:01
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57:14
As always, feel free to email me at stylepointspodcast
57:18
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57:22
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