Latest / The Mental Health Evolution / Ep 56: Making Psychedelic Therapy Accessible with Myriam Barthes

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Ep 56: Making Psychedelic Therapy Accessible with Myriam Barthes · The Mental Health Evolution

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(Transcribed by TurboScribe. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) This podcast is part of the Frederick podcast
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network.
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Learn more at listenfrederick.com.
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Welcome to Mental Health Evolution, a podcast about
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what's changing in mental health and why it
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matters.
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I'm your host, Rachel Harrison, inviting you into
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honest conversations with people from all perspectives in
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the field, clinicians, tech founders, investors, insurance companies,
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and all the folks in between.
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Let's explore what's working, what's not, and what's
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next.
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Hey everyone, it's Rachel.
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I just finished recording a conversation with Miriam
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Bart, co-founder and CEO of Journey Clinical,
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and I have to say I am still
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thinking about it.
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We really dug into some of the nuts
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and bolts of ketamine-assisted psychotherapy, how to
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work with it, how what some of the
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barriers are, the recent FDA approvals.
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She actually talks about when to expect those
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to happen and what that rollout might look
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like.
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She has some great ideas for anyone interested
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in this type of treatment, either for themselves
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or providing it as a clinician or as
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a business.
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We kept this conversation to the business level
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pieces of this treatment.
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It's well documented and we have previous episodes
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talking about ketamine-assisted psychotherapy in specific and
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kind of the therapy side, but listen in.
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I think you'll get a lot out of
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it and Miriam is a lovely guest.
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Thanks for being here.
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Welcome back everyone to the Mental Health Evolution
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podcast.
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I'm Rachel Harrison and today I'm speaking with
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Miriam Bart, co-founder and CEO of Journey
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Clinical, the number one psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy platform
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in the United States and home to the
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largest network of KAP-trained therapists in the
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country.
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Miriam came to this work through her own
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personal experience with ketamine-assisted psychotherapy.
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Before co-founding Journey Clinical, she worked as
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an AI strategist and consultant and she has
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brought that systems thinking lens to one of
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the most complex problems in mental health.
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How do you take a that is clinically
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promising, legally available, and genuinely hard to access
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and make it actually reachable for patients and
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the therapists who want to offer it?
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Journey Clinical's answer is a collaborative care model,
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a platform that connects licensed psychotherapists with a
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dedicated medical team so that therapists can offer
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ketamine-assisted psychotherapy to their clients without having
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to navigate the medical side alone.
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They are currently operating across 27 states and
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they are building infrastructure for what comes next
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as psilocybin and other psychedelic treatments move toward
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FDA approval.
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We have a lot to cover today and
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as promised at the very end of the
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episode, I will share a few articles for
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anyone who wants to go deeper.
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Miriam, welcome to the show.
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Thank you, Rachel, for having me on the
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show.
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I'm excited for this conversation.
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Me too.
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So in former episodes of this podcast, we
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have talked about what ketamine-assisted therapy is,
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utilizing psychedelics in treatment, and that it is
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fairly established in the research.
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We can certainly talk about pertinent pieces to
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that, but I really want to drive and
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dive into the process side of things, such
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as business systems that you've created.
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I'd love to hear sort of what is
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the founder story, what was the idea behind
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Journey Clinical, and how did your former training
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and background assist you in creating this model?
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This is a great question.
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So a couple of things.
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One, you know, 15 years of working with
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large institutions, learning about AI, processes, and systems
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in general, meant to me that I had
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certain skills and I wanted to be able
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to utilize those skills in the real world
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to contribute and create something that I love
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and that has meaning.
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And after having personal experiences with psychedelic therapy,
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it was so clear that this is the
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direction that I wanted to go and move
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forward with.
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And so it was actually a perfect marriage
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of both the skill set and the passion,
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the enthusiasm, the meaning, so that I could
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put all these great skills that I had
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spent years cultivating into a mission that I
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could wake up every day and feel really
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proud and excited about my day, even if
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I end up looking at an Excel spreadsheet
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all day, because I know why I'm doing
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it.
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And I know we have, for example, on
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the platform at Journey Clinical, client wins.
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And so you see the stories and you
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talk to the therapist and you hear the
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stories.
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And that's why we do what we do.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I love that.
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And that's awesome that you were able to
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find that inspiration for your skills.
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It is a win-win.
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So ketamine is already legal and can be
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prescribed off-label today.
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And that means that a therapist listening right
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now could theoretically start offering ketamine assisted psychotherapy
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without waiting for any new approvals.
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But what is actually stopping most therapists from
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doing that?
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And then how does Journey Clinical sort of
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step in and remove those barriers?
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Yeah, this is a great question.
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And this is actually how we started the
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company.
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So we started the company during COVID in
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our living room.
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And what we did for maybe six months
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was talk to therapists and do surveys and
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user focus groups, because my question was, why
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aren't you doing this today?
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And what we learned, the first thing, as
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you mentioned, was, well, prescribing is outside of
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our scope of practice.
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Right.
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So we partner with a medical professional so
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that we can do the collaborative care that
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you mentioned.
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And then what happened is during these six
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months is, you know, I was customer success,
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customer supports.
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Talking through the clinician, what I understood was
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the medical team was one part of it.
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Then people also needed training and education.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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That big part of what the therapist needed
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to feel safe, feel comfortable.
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And that takes many shapes.
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It starts with, of course, didactic training, but
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also experiential training, shadowing sessions, co-facilitating sessions,
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and then ongoing peer consultation groups so that
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they can speak among themselves about the pieces
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that come up and how to address them.
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So education was the second bucket.
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And then, you know, it was COVID.
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So community, if people were at home in
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there, sometimes alone, sometimes people had group practices.
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But for the most part, community was also
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something that we, that the therapists were asking
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for.
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So we built a thriving, thriving, thriving community
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of therapists.
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And that's been really, really beautiful to witness
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different parts of the country, both in person
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with events, as well as digitally.
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And then the last two pieces were, of
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course, resources like legal resources and marketing resources.
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Yeah.
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So we build all of that.
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And then, of course, insurance.
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Insurance is what we spent building in the
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last couple of years, because we want these
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treatments to be accessible to people.
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And we want to help therapists not have
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to do too much on the administrative side
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of insurance.
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So we basically built this company truly listening
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to the therapist and what they needed to
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integrate these treatments in their own practice with
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ease and comfort.
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So this is interesting to me, this insurance
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piece in particular, because I, can you bill
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for ketamine-assisted psychotherapy?
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Great question.
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What we learned is that, for example, the
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medical consultations, intakes and follow-ups are traditional
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medical visits.
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Okay.
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And that also preparation and integration, which is
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the framework that we follow, preparation, dosing and
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integration, are effectively psychotherapy.
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Correct.
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That makes sense to me.
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Yes.
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So that means a large part of the
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treatment is actually covered through medical consultations and
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psychotherapy consultations.
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Okay.
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So it's just the dosing piece that's not
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covered at this point.
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Yes, the dosing piece, which can last an
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hour and a half.
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That's typically what we hear.
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Okay.
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So you're helping different clinicians be able to
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sort of navigate some of those legal pieces,
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what can be billed, what can't be billed,
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how to communicate, how to get trained in
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it.
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You sort of seem to have kind of
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an all-around package.
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So do your clinicians work for you specifically
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then, or is it just something that they
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add on as like an EHR system?
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Not that it is EHR, but is that
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add-on in that way to their work?
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Yeah, you can think about it as integrating
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a new modality into their practice, just like
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EMDR, just like IFS.
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It is a little bit more complex because
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there is this element that is medical, and
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so you need a partnership with a medical
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professional, but otherwise what we really try to
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do is make it so easy for clinicians
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to do this without having to think about
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every step of the way.
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Yeah.
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And clinicians are effectively in private practice, and
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so this is an add-on.
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We have a membership through Journey Clinical that
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they can participate in and then have access
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to our platform and our services and our
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medical team and all of the things that
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are mentioned through that membership program.
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Okay, awesome.
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That's a pretty interesting business model.
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I am also fascinated by this news.
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In April 2026, President Trump signed an executive
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order to fast-track psychedelic treatments, and the
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FDA issued national priority vouchers for psilocybin compounds
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for clinicians who are trying to understand what
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that actually means for their practice.
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What is the realistic timeline, and what can
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people be doing now to prepare?
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Fast-tracking sounds really awesome.
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I think it's really interesting that this administration
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did that, and I'm just curious some of
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your thoughts on that whole process.
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Yeah, a couple of things.
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First of all, psychedelics received, all of a
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sudden, national attention.
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So until now, it was a little bit
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fringe.
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It was a little bit, there was more
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stigma.
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People were like, is this a thing?
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Is this not a thing?
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And I think after this, there have been
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so many pieces of news that have followed
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that.
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As you said, the FDA voucher collaboration between
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the VA and HHS as well.
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There was a summit in Washington, DC around
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psychedelics, and there is an FDA hearing actually
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coming up on September 14 by the FDA
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to talk to people in the fields, clinicians,
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practitioners, scientists, investors, to understand more.
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So I think it puts psychedelics on the
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map in a very clear way.
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Now, with regards to the FDA voucher and
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the upcoming timelines, what we know today is
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that there are COMPASS pathways, which has the
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COMP360, which is a psilocybin derivative.
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The timeline that we know of is likely
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a, if they receive FDA approval, it's likely
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going to be in Q4 this year.
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Oh wow.
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That's not too long.
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No, that is really fast.
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What is it?
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That is very fast-tracked considering this happened
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in April.
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Absolutely.
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And I think what's interesting with that is
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it's really the FDA review timeline that has
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been compressed.
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So once the submission to the FDA has
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been submitted, instead of a nine to 12
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months review cycle, it is now compressed to
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this one to two months review cycle.
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Wow.
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Okay.
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So that could really open things up, it
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seems to me.
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What do you kind of envision as this,
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if this FDA approval comes through, what do
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you see changing or evolving in how this
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work is done?
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I believe it's going to be the first
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of many FDA approvals.
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So that's the first thing.
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We know that Resilient also filed for FDA
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approval for MDMA again.
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And we know that there are over a
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hundred clinical trials for psychedelic drugs at this
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point.
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So we expect that to be only the
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beginning of a field that is then going
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to mature.
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And then inevitably the care delivery questions will
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be front and center.
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How do people actually access these treatments?
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And what we've been sharing with the therapist
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is from what we know today, the REMS
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from Spravato, and the REMS is the risk
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and mitigation strategies that comes alongside the drug
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approval are likely going to be the baseline
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for COM360 FDA approval and all of the
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other drugs that are in the FDA pipeline.
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And so we tell therapists, if you want
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to get ready, let's get you started with
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Spravato because you will be first in line.
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If you have a Spravato site that is
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certified, you will be first to offer salicylamide,
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MDMA, and all of the other psychedelics that
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come through.
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And do you offer training for all of
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these as well through Journey Clinical?
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Yeah, of course.
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So what we plan to do, because we
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don't know the REMS yet, but we have
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a research collaboration with Compass Pathways that we've
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had for two years.
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So we have been meeting with their team
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on a bi-weekly basis for now a
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couple of years.
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And so we are very, we're willing, ready,
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and able to deliver these treatments, including the
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training portion of it.
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It's not yet live on our platform, but
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it's part of what we're working through.
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Okay.
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Wow.
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That's really exciting.
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Yeah.
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So I'm curious, given the fact that it
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feels like we are on the cusp of
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this sort of opening wide for FDA approval,
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do you see insurance companies getting on board
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with approving this treatment once that happens?
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I think it will be necessary.
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And again, we have the example of Spravato.
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So as I mentioned before, the medical consultations,
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we can use regular code for preparation integration.
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We can use regular code.
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It's really the dosing session.
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And so Spravato has specific codes for the
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dosing sessions.
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And so while they are category three codes
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that have been submitted to the AMA, I
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believe, for psychedelic treatments, these may take a
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little bit of time to get approved.
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And so we will need to be working
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with the codes that we have in the
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meantime to make sure that the treatment is
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covered.
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There are also some interesting affordability options, again,
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that we've seen with Spravato that likely will
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be mirrored after, such as Spravato and me,
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or there is a rebate that you can
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use.
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So I think the manufacturers want to make
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this treatment available and accessible to people who
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need it.
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And so everybody is very concerned and looking
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for solutions for affordability.
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I love that.
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That's really inspiring.
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Well, we are about out of time today,
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but I would love to know what is
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one thing that you feel like our listeners
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could take away from the conversation today, whether
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they're a business owner, a clinician or a
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client in mental health care?
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What do you think it's important for people
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to know?
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I think what's important today is to understand
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that we are only at the beginning of
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psychedelic treatments.
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I believe that these treatments will be mainstream
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and that they will be accessible to people
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who need it as a treatment option when
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needed.
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And so educate, you know, if you can
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educate yourself, understand it.
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I always feel very passionate about people understanding
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what this is, because we know there is
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a lot of misinformation on the Internet.
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And so people are better off when they're
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educated.
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I love it.
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I think that is a solid plan for
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all people involved or interested.
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So thank you so much, Miriam, for being
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here today, co-founder and CEO of Journey
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Clinical.
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We will put her information in the show
18:02
note for you if you want to follow
18:04
up and learn more, of course, about training
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or about Journey Clinical.
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So this has been a great conversation, Miriam.
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I really appreciate you being here.
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And thanks for kind of diving into the
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business side, the nuts and bolts side of
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all of this and your why.
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And yeah, it's been a great conversation.
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Thank you.
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And thank you for your time, too.
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I think the work that you do is
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amazing.
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Thank you.
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As promised, everyone, I want to offer you
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the articles that really kind of support the
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conversation that you just listened to today.
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The first one is from CNN, published in
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April 2026, covering the FDA's decision to fast
18:47
track psilocybin and methadone for mental health treatment,
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including the executive order that set in motion
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and what national priority vouchers actually mean for
18:58
the timeline to approval.
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The second piece is written by Miriam herself,
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our guest today, published on the Journey Clinical
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website in May 2026, called, What Psychedelics Reveal
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About the Human Capacity for Healing.
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I want to flag that this comes from
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the guest's own organization, but I found it
19:19
genuinely worth reading.
19:21
It's about what patients consistently report from psychedelic
19:24
experiences and what that might tell us about
19:27
how healing actually works.
19:30
And the third article is from the Federal
19:32
Register, published in July 2026, the FDA's own
19:36
public hearing request on the future therapeutic use
19:40
of psychedelic drugs.
19:41
If you want to understand where the federal
19:43
policy is actually heading, this is the primary
19:46
source.
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And fourth is from CNBC, published this past
19:50
July, looking at the psychedelic mental health market.
19:54
Eli Lilly's acquisition, Compass Pathways phase three results,
19:59
and where the investment is going.
20:02
For practice owners thinking about the next five
20:04
years and what they look like, this one
20:07
is worth a read.
20:09
Thanks for listening, and we will see you
20:11
next time.
20:13
Thanks for listening to the Mental Health Evolution
20:16
podcast.
20:17
Join the conversation, find us on social, send
20:20
us your thoughts, and tell us what you're
20:21
seeing in your corner of the mental health
20:23
world.
20:24
Until next time, stay curious and keep evolving.