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Hatred of Narrative · I Hate Talking

• 0:29
  I Hate Talking: Welcome to episode 7 of I Hate Talking, and today we are going to be talking about narrative versus reasoning, which is something that we got into again in some previous episodes.
• 0:44
  I Hate Talking: So we are once again building on some of the themes that we have discussed previously and that brings us to our word or phrase of the episode, narrative.
• 0:55
  I Hate Talking: A spoken or written account of connected events.
• 1:01
  I Hate Talking: In other words, a story.
• 1:04
  I Hate Talking: It can also mean something that is narrated.
• 1:07
  I Hate Talking: This could even include short stories, novels, biographies, memoirs, travelogues, nonfiction, plays, history, and even sculptures.
• 1:20
  I Hate Talking: That's what it says.
• 1:22
  I Hate Talking: Can you tell a story through a sculpture?
• 1:25
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I guess when you go to an art museum.
• 1:30
  I Hate Talking: You can definitely see stories or thoughts.
• 1:33
  I Hate Talking: Based on what you're looking at, so I suppose so.
• 1:37
  I Hate Talking: Thanks, Merriam Webster, and think about it that way.
• 1:41
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I think in Rome or some of the Grecian artwork that you will even have some of those reliefs as they are as they are called that uh depict the story that may even be the same sculpted character in different scenarios or Shown in their lifetime as time progresses.
• 2:08
  I Hate Talking: Hm.
• 2:09
  I Hate Talking: And that does also relate back to the simplest form of story.
• 2:16
  I Hate Talking: Pictographs Is that our new word of the day?
• 2:20
  I Hate Talking: Pictographs is not our word or phrase of the episode, but we have many more episodes ahead of us.
• 2:27
  I Hate Talking: -- So perhaps -- we'll hang in there.
• 2:30
  I Hate Talking: Stay tuned.
• 2:32
  I Hate Talking: -- I -- will learn along with you.
• 2:34
  I Hate Talking: But it does Seem that regardless of your age, that people always enjoy looking at stories that include pictures.
• 2:45
  I Hate Talking: Mhm.
• 2:46
  I Hate Talking: So there you have it, sculptures can even be a form of narrative because everyone loves a story that includes pictures.
• 2:58
  I Hate Talking: So when we consider how narrative plays a part in conversation and whether you enjoy talking about narrative or you hate talking about narrative that the counter to that perhaps is reasoning or knowledge or just plain simple facts.
• 3:21
  I Hate Talking: How would you?
• 3:23
  I Hate Talking: Enjoy or hate talking about one or the other.
• 3:28
  I Hate Talking: So initially, when I saw what we were talking about, I thought, oh, this is easy.
• 3:34
  I Hate Talking: I'm narratives and your reasoning.
• 3:38
  I Hate Talking: You like that?
• 3:39
  I Hate Talking: And reasoning.
• 3:42
  I Hate Talking: If it doesn't line up with A, B, and C, then D is not correct.
• 3:47
  I Hate Talking: And I like hearing people's stories, like tell me about your birth, and then your childhood and what was elementary school like.
• 3:56
  I Hate Talking: And so on.
• 3:59
  I Hate Talking: So I guess the biggest question at this moment I have for you is, do you enjoy when you go to art museums, would you find beauty or story or appreciation?
• 4:12
  I Hate Talking: In a sculpture or photo.
• 4:15
  I Hate Talking: I do find joy and passion and.
• 4:20
  I Hate Talking: A sense of.
• 4:23
  I Hate Talking: Sympathy, perhaps even empathy.
• 4:26
  I Hate Talking: In some of that artwork, if it is reflective of the human condition in a general sense of the word.
• 4:37
  I Hate Talking: So are you looking for again, facts or reasoning behind that photo?
• 4:43
  I Hate Talking: Yes, I'm looking for knowledge that can be imparted from how the artist portrayed that particular narrative that applies to all of humankind.
• 4:57
  I Hate Talking: I like how you said all of humankind.
• 5:00
  I Hate Talking: As you're looking at this, say it's a photo that you have never experienced or Uh, model you've never experienced.
• 5:08
  I Hate Talking: But would you instantly think, oh, this relates to so and so when they told me about this.
• 5:18
  I Hate Talking: Heartbreak or this joy they had in their life.
• 5:22
  I Hate Talking: Would that be where your brain goes to or would it be instantly This is not a reasonable.
• 5:29
  I Hate Talking: Reflection of her life.
• 5:32
  I Hate Talking: So it depends on, I guess perhaps how I interpret that and how I would either associate that with my own personal experience or associate it with how I perceive the experience of all of humankind because if I see that that art does reflect All of humankind's experience or that particular narrative, whatever form it may take either a story or narration or play or sculpture or even painting that if it does reflect something that I associate with all of humankind experiencing, then I will be empathetic to the story that that particular piece of artwork is telling.
• 6:21
  I Hate Talking: However, If I somehow perceive that that particular narrative is telling something counter to what I think that human culture experiences or in a more personal sense what I experience, then I tend to not appreciate that particular piece of artwork and not appreciate that narrative.
• 6:46
  I Hate Talking: OK, yeah, I mean, that's valid.
• 6:49
  I Hate Talking: We can't.
• 6:51
  I Hate Talking: Experience or even empathize with every stage of life or every culture that we come across.
• 7:01
  I Hate Talking: So I feel like that's a valid, um, and very honest opinion of what you're witnessing.
• 7:07
  I Hate Talking: Um, I think it's sometimes hurtful or harmful when people try to Appropriate or take on.
• 7:17
  I Hate Talking: Other hurts or experiences that they haven't had necessarily.
• 7:23
  I Hate Talking: So I get that.
• 7:25
  I Hate Talking: Um, initially when I was hearing.
• 7:29
  I Hate Talking: Narrative versus reality, thinking, oh yeah, if you and I, as a couple, meet a family.
• 7:38
  I Hate Talking: You're instantly talking about what do you do for a job?
• 7:42
  I Hate Talking: How many kids do you have?
• 7:45
  I Hate Talking: Where do you live?
• 7:46
  I Hate Talking: What are your?
• 7:47
  I Hate Talking: Aspirations Where I'm like, oh, tell me about your family.
• 7:52
  I Hate Talking: Do they live locally?
• 7:54
  I Hate Talking: Oh wow, that must be hard.
• 7:56
  I Hate Talking: How are your kids sleeping?
• 7:58
  I Hate Talking: And um I very much want to hear.
• 8:03
  I Hate Talking: Their day to day life story.
• 8:08
  I Hate Talking: Where I feel like you would like to hear their High our goals or experiences.
• 8:18
  I Hate Talking: Yes, and at the risk of being canceled as early as episode 7, I think that men and women approach those conversations differently, that men like you said, are going to focus more on their duties and their roles and that is going to be less narrative based.
• 8:40
  I Hate Talking: Because they're going to talk about what they do and how they do it and perhaps where they do it and it's going to be in some form or fashion more factual based in terms of how they communicate versus what you described, I think is more apt for women to talk about.
• 9:02
  I Hate Talking: Where women are going to talk in more of a narrative sense in terms of the stories of their lives and the stories of their children and what they have experienced as a shared.
• 9:18
  I Hate Talking: Experience in terms of how they can have commonalities.
• 9:22
  I Hate Talking: I love this.
• 9:24
  I Hate Talking: Um, as a sociologist major with a minor in psychology, and I really wanted to do anthropology, but my College didn't focus on that much.
• 9:37
  I Hate Talking: Uh, this is definitely, you're touching on a nerve that I've always enjoyed.
• 9:43
  I Hate Talking: And um in future episodes, we can dive into more, for sure.
• 9:49
  I Hate Talking: Uh, as you're talking about joking about being canceled and the gender roles, it's so interesting to me.
• 9:59
  I Hate Talking: Because In junior high and high school.
• 10:03
  I Hate Talking: The home structure I grew up in.
• 10:08
  I Hate Talking: There at one time were 5 teenage boys and me and the 1 little girl in the household plus adults.
• 10:18
  I Hate Talking: And so I pushed back on that so much.
• 10:22
  I Hate Talking: Because I feel like my whole life I was struggling with pushing back on.
• 10:28
  I Hate Talking: In the 1 female within 5 other male voices.
• 10:33
  I Hate Talking: But as a whole, I would agree with you on that.
• 10:39
  I Hate Talking: But instantly, I want to push back, because I want to argue that with my personality.
• 10:45
  I Hate Talking: I have compassion and care about people's stories.
• 10:51
  I Hate Talking: So I want to think more on why I want to push back on that, whether it's um the culture I grew up in and the 5 teenage males I grew up with.
• 11:03
  I Hate Talking: Or if um There is truth to what you're saying.
• 11:08
  I Hate Talking: And I think it's interesting, right?
• 11:11
  I Hate Talking: And hopefully a little bit self-insightful that I am basing my interpretation of reality on my own personal experience as a man.
• 11:25
  I Hate Talking: But that the fact that I resonate more with male authors versus female authors in terms of how they write books and structure the vocabulary and either use narrative or do not use narrative that I'm using my own personal narrative to come to those conclusions that perhaps I will be more.
• 11:53
  I Hate Talking: Uh, ready to Here and agree with someone that uses more reasoning and factual based language rather than narrative and that is in some way related to their gender.
• 12:11
  I Hate Talking: OK, everyone, can we just give a slow clap for a moment?
• 12:17
  I Hate Talking: To recognize what Adam just said.
• 12:20
  I Hate Talking: There was a moment recently.
• 12:23
  I Hate Talking: Were him and I are listening to an audiobook.
• 12:27
  I Hate Talking: I have an author on parenting, and again, we have 4 very small young children.
• 12:34
  I Hate Talking: And It's a parenting book.
• 12:38
  I Hate Talking: And he was expressing his um.
• 12:42
  I Hate Talking: Discomfort with how everything is narrative-based or her perspective based.
• 12:49
  I Hate Talking: On what she has seen.
• 12:52
  I Hate Talking: So as we were discussing this, I was asking like, is it cause she's a female?
• 12:57
  I Hate Talking: Is it because She herself has young kids, so she doesn't have a high view of Generations of experience, cause she's about our age.
• 13:08
  I Hate Talking: What was his initial um Just turn off on this.
• 13:14
  I Hate Talking: And so I love what he's saying and his expressing that his um Trying to process why it's a turnoff for him.
• 13:25
  I Hate Talking: Whether it's the narrative, so and so told me or in my experience.
• 13:31
  I Hate Talking: Versus just the facts, you do this and then you get this outcome.
• 13:37
  I Hate Talking: And I think in some ways it is whether they are using narrative in terms of their own experience to explain general concepts.
• 13:48
  I Hate Talking: Versus how general concepts are explained through narrative and analogies.
• 13:56
  I Hate Talking: What it's very nuanced, but the, the narrative as the starting point takes one person's experience and story and tries to explain all of humankind's experience through that single story, whereas I will be more apt to agree and interpret and Uh, empathize with a description of all of humankind's experience that is then boiled down to a particular analogy or narrative.
• 14:32
  I Hate Talking: Mhm.
• 14:33
  I Hate Talking: Yeah, I think that's excellent.
• 14:35
  I Hate Talking: Like just taking us as an example, broad view.
• 14:40
  I Hate Talking: What do you think about our high school experience.
• 14:43
  I Hate Talking: I grew up in a home on the west coast.
• 14:46
  I Hate Talking: That had, like I said, a few months ago, 5 males within the age of like.
• 14:54
  I Hate Talking: 17 to 13 And then I was in that mix, and then we had a little girl also.
• 15:04
  I Hate Talking: That was my high school experience, all in one home, one bathroom.
• 15:10
  I Hate Talking: Where you grew up in a home with your high school experience with with you.
• 15:16
  I Hate Talking: And then a younger.
• 15:19
  I Hate Talking: Junior high, elementary, maybe 6 years younger, right?
• 15:24
  I Hate Talking: Female.
• 15:25
  I Hate Talking: So with the two of you.
• 15:26
  I Hate Talking: Versus my experience being 7 of us.
• 15:31
  I Hate Talking: 5 males and 2 females.
• 15:34
  I Hate Talking: And so our narratives, our experience of high school is vastly different.
• 15:41
  I Hate Talking: Um, I went to public school, you were homeschooled.
• 15:45
  I Hate Talking: And in itself, um, would give a vast, my graduating class was over 1000, yours was So my graduating class was, I think actually 8 people.
• 16:00
  I Hate Talking: Who, big numbers there.
• 16:02
  I Hate Talking: Sorry to count it low.
• 16:04
  I Hate Talking: So I was over 1000 and you had 8.
• 16:08
  I Hate Talking: And so, in a way, our narratives of explaining high school would be vastly different.
• 16:18
  I Hate Talking: That is true and I think it even goes back earlier than that in terms of the narratives that we consumed as children and I think back to one of the popular series that I read as a child, the Hardy Boys, which I was quite surprised to learn later in my middle and high school years that a number of those books were actually written by a woman.
• 16:48
  I Hate Talking: Oh, I actually didn't even know that.
• 16:52
  I Hate Talking: We are reading those currently with our children right now.
• 16:56
  I Hate Talking: That's right.
• 16:57
  I Hate Talking: So, any of the Hardy Boy books that were written by Franklin W.
• 17:04
  I Hate Talking: Dickson were actually written by Canadian author Leslie McFarlane.
• 17:10
  I Hate Talking: Hm, OK, I love that, and I will 100% start telling my children that.
• 17:17
  I Hate Talking: Before I go into that side note.
• 17:21
  I Hate Talking: Um, for any of the listeners that don't know, we actually, we've mentioned our children before.
• 17:28
  I Hate Talking: We have 4 young children that are all male.
• 17:32
  I Hate Talking: And they really resonate with the Hardy Boys.
• 17:36
  I Hate Talking: I will definitely tell them that some of these books are written by females, cause I champion.
• 17:43
  I Hate Talking: Myself as a female, as the only female in our household, even our dog is a boy.
• 17:50
  I Hate Talking: Uh, we have some chickens that are hens, but that is the only, um, Female estrogen that I get.
• 17:59
  I Hate Talking: So I think that when we consider all the different narratives that we have consumed throughout our lives from very young children all the way into our current days as middle-aged adults or even getting as old as some of the people from the Brady Bunch.
• 18:24
  I Hate Talking: Oh no.
• 18:24
  I Hate Talking: OK, so he's commenting as I showed him a meme.
• 18:29
  I Hate Talking: That had the maid Alice from the Brady Bunch.
• 18:35
  I Hate Talking: And it said, if you see her and you're born within such and such time, you're as old as Alice is from the Brady Bunch.
• 18:47
  I Hate Talking: And that is us.
• 18:49
  I Hate Talking: -- So the -- way I look, I look like Alice?
• 18:53
  I Hate Talking: Now, through the power of modern day hair coloring, you do not.
• 18:58
  I Hate Talking: Gorgeous beauty, natural beauty, beauty.
• 19:02
  I Hate Talking: Oh no.
• 19:04
  I Hate Talking: So all the way from birth to the age of Alice from the Brady Bunch, we have experienced these different narratives throughout our lives and I think what is truly important is being able to apply the narrative and be able to determine how the human condition is applicable to both all of humankind.
• 19:31
  I Hate Talking: As well as ourselves as we consider these stories that are told through books or artwork or paintings or as we have discussed in the very beginning, even sculpture.
• 19:46
  I Hate Talking: So, before we end this episode, I think we will ask one more question about something that came up in the very first few minutes of this episode is remembering your birth.
• 20:01
  I Hate Talking: So, when you mentioned that, do you actually remember being born?
• 20:06
  I Hate Talking: I know.
• 20:08
  I Hate Talking: Um, I wanna hear your conversation because I, we've talked about this.
• 20:13
  I Hate Talking: In years past, my earliest memory, I know my birth from my parents' stories.
• 20:21
  I Hate Talking: Um, they have amazing birth stories.
• 20:24
  I Hate Talking: I was their 3rd child.
• 20:26
  I Hate Talking: Out of 5 born.
• 20:28
  I Hate Talking: Um Yeah, we can get into that in the future.
• 20:33
  I Hate Talking: I know their story.
• 20:34
  I Hate Talking: My earliest memory was my Younger sister, so they'd be their 6th birth, was born.
• 20:43
  I Hate Talking: That was when my memories began.
• 20:46
  I Hate Talking: So I certainly do not remember being born.
• 20:51
  I Hate Talking: I do not have the memory of Ashton Kutcher, uh, in the butterfly effect.
• 20:56
  I Hate Talking: Uh, but I do, I think remember earlier times and what you are describing.
• 21:01
  I Hate Talking: I certainly remember my sister being born and uh she was 5 years younger than me.
• 21:07
  I Hate Talking: And even previously to that, I remember a birthday party at the house that we lived at prior to her being born that must have been either my 4th birthday party or perhaps my 5th birthday party, and that was apparently a very significant event in my life that I still remember to this very day.
• 21:31
  I Hate Talking: I love that and this is definitely a conversation we should have later cause my first Vivid memory is solidified in my head, and I'd love to talk to you about.
• 21:42
  I Hate Talking: Different memories.
• 21:44
  I Hate Talking: Our brother, my brother, so your brother-in-law, we love him dearly, I love my sister-in-law.
• 21:52
  I Hate Talking: More than life itself, his wife, um, who just had their baby two weeks ago.
• 21:59
  I Hate Talking: Happy birthday.
• 22:01
  I Hate Talking: And, um, I can't wait in the future to see who he becomes and all his older siblings.
• 22:10
  I Hate Talking: My heart warms, seeing them hold him and kiss him.
• 22:15
  I Hate Talking: And knowing that in 40 years, they'll look back and probably not remember these moments that we're talking about.
• 22:24
  I Hate Talking: Or perhaps they will because perhaps the most significant moments in our lives are when we do interact with our families and gain new family members and have those significant events that are recognized by society.
• 22:40
  I Hate Talking: As we have seen and discussed from this particular episode in terms of narrative and reasoning, it is all important, though sometimes we may hate talking about particular stories, but we have to remember that it is only through talking that we begin the journey to understanding.