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SMNTY Classics: The VVitch · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is any welcome to stuff I never told
0:07
Speaker 1: you protection of iHeart radio. And here is a classic
0:21
Speaker 1: about one of my very favorite horror movies, The Bitch,
0:24
Speaker 1: which we did a viewing with our listeners, um, and
0:29
Speaker 1: it was super fun. I had such a good time, um,
0:32
Speaker 1: a virtual viewing, because that's that's about where we are
0:35
Speaker 1: these days. But this one also came up a lot
0:38
Speaker 1: and the recent episode we did on Elevated Horror. If
0:42
Speaker 1: you haven't listened to that one yet, I would recommend
0:45
Speaker 1: going to listen to it because it was one of
0:47
Speaker 1: the first ones that got kind of slapped with that
0:49
Speaker 1: label and it sort of started the whole thing. And
0:52
Speaker 1: I do. I mean, I love this movie. It's in
0:56
Speaker 1: my rotation. Um, it is like the Which and it
1:01
Speaker 1: started so many memes that showed up in what we
1:04
Speaker 1: do in the shadows the show, like I really really
1:08
Speaker 1: enjoy it. But I had a huge impact. Although the
1:10
Speaker 1: actress did not love it and didn't she really thought
1:12
Speaker 1: she was gonna be fired forever. That's what she said.
1:16
Speaker 1: She said she thought she was so bad in it.
1:18
Speaker 1: Oh she was fantastic that she thought she would never
1:21
Speaker 1: get to act again. Wow, wow, No, she did fantastic
1:26
Speaker 1: um and clearly she was wrong because she's in all
1:29
Speaker 1: kinds of stuff. Yes, yes, es, yes, Now I want
1:34
Speaker 1: to like turn out the lights and watch this movie.
1:36
Speaker 1: We didn't have another viewing party smith, yes, es, yes, alright, alright,
1:41
Speaker 1: well if we if there's something else, we should have
1:44
Speaker 1: a viewing party on listeners let us know. It's about time. Yeah,
1:47
Speaker 1: I think it's about time. It's been about a year since.
1:52
Speaker 1: But please enjoy this classic episode. This is Annie and
2:01
Speaker 1: Samantha and welcome to Stephane. Never told your protection of
2:04
Speaker 1: I heart Radio. I have got to say our past
2:17
Speaker 1: couple of episodes, both on here and on Savor, they've
2:21
Speaker 1: been a delightful research times for me because I got
2:25
Speaker 1: to do Princess Leah and the Simpsons food and now
2:28
Speaker 1: we're talking about one of my favorites, the Witch. Yes, wait,
2:32
Speaker 1: you do the Simpsons food? Did you do the whole
2:34
Speaker 1: New Orleans trip? Yes? Yes, I like that. It was
2:39
Speaker 1: pretty epic. I mean so several YouTube people recreated it,
2:44
Speaker 1: we created it. Bening with Babis was my favorite, of course.
2:47
Speaker 1: Yeah you sent me that fifty two restaurants. How impressive
2:51
Speaker 1: it is. Even I the maximizer was humbled. Um. But
2:57
Speaker 1: going on to the new fave, yes, which is The Witch.
3:02
Speaker 1: And I know we've mentioned it several times where I've
3:05
Speaker 1: said I can't one day, I hope we get to
3:07
Speaker 1: talk about it. And we posted a poll for our
3:10
Speaker 1: feminist movie Friday, and Samantha had picked all these options.
3:14
Speaker 1: Since she said, are there anything you want? I said, well,
3:17
Speaker 1: you put which on that you know, and it would.
3:21
Speaker 1: I'm so glad it would. Um. Also, it seems like
3:26
Speaker 1: we're just going to do all which movies all the time,
3:30
Speaker 1: which is okay with me because the Craft we did
3:33
Speaker 1: right before this, now this, we're definitely gonna do Hocus Focus. Yeah,
3:37
Speaker 1: I don't know. I would have to do which is
3:39
Speaker 1: of Eastwick. I think we need to do that as well.
3:42
Speaker 1: And I haven't seen Witches, so I mean, right, options abound. Yeah,
3:50
Speaker 1: so maybe we're going to go in that direction. But well,
3:53
Speaker 1: will let all of you listeners weigh in on feature
3:57
Speaker 1: film choices. So I I remember seeing this movie. I
4:03
Speaker 1: saw it a few times. One of the things I
4:06
Speaker 1: really love about it is I never really truly appreciated
4:09
Speaker 1: how terrifying it was to be a woman during the
4:12
Speaker 1: time of the Salem Witch. Trials, when everyone was so
4:15
Speaker 1: ready to condemn and kill you for something you couldn't
4:19
Speaker 1: prove otherwise, and even proving otherwise sometimes involved your death.
4:23
Speaker 1: And I knew it on an intellectual level, I knew
4:25
Speaker 1: that's scary and terrifying, but this was a really visceral,
4:29
Speaker 1: emotional level of experiencing that, and the parallels between today
4:35
Speaker 1: and how we still don't believe women. They were impossible
4:39
Speaker 1: to miss, especially in service to structures like religion that
4:43
Speaker 1: were and are. They were largely created by men and
4:46
Speaker 1: are still largely upheld by men. That is changing, but
4:49
Speaker 1: that legacy is still there. And also just smaller things
4:53
Speaker 1: like not knowing why things were happening, that oppressive dark
4:57
Speaker 1: of this whole movie just weighing on you. Of well,
5:00
Speaker 1: all the crops aren't they're all dying? Why we can't
5:03
Speaker 1: find any food? Why what is going on here? Um?
5:07
Speaker 1: And it's a it's a paranoid and claustrophobic film, and
5:10
Speaker 1: it constantly makes you doubt yourself and what is going on?
5:15
Speaker 1: Is this something of they are? Essentially I guess this
5:20
Speaker 1: is a really good pick for Quarantine, essentially going through
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Speaker 1: isolation and what that entails or is there really something
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Speaker 1: supernatural going on, and if so, to what degree? Um So,
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Speaker 1: I love it before we get into it much further
5:37
Speaker 1: trigger warning, I guess for violence. We're not going to
5:42
Speaker 1: talk about too much of that stuff in depth, but
5:45
Speaker 1: the film itself, UM, I can see how it would
5:49
Speaker 1: be triggering in in terms of that, UM some gruesomeness
5:53
Speaker 1: and spoilers. So this came out in um, but that's
5:59
Speaker 1: still want. It's the Windows ten years. You're not supposed
6:01
Speaker 1: to spoil anything. So if you miss the watch party,
6:04
Speaker 1: if you do want to see it, stop it here
6:07
Speaker 1: and we'll be here when you get back and you
6:09
Speaker 1: can hear our thoughts. Yeah, and speaking of the watch party,
6:13
Speaker 1: thanks for everyone who joined us. Uh and we want
6:16
Speaker 1: to keep trying to do them, but just n f
6:18
Speaker 1: y I so we're able to do this the Netflix
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Speaker 1: party app um So if it's not on Netflix, we
6:25
Speaker 1: don't we're not able to do it because it was
6:26
Speaker 1: definitely a good suggestion of now and Then. And I
6:29
Speaker 1: love that movie. I love, love, love that movie, but
6:32
Speaker 1: it's not on Netflix, and there's so many other movies.
6:35
Speaker 1: I was like trying to find Heathers so we could
6:37
Speaker 1: do that one, but it's not on Netflix either and
6:39
Speaker 1: we want to keep No, I think they took it off,
6:43
Speaker 1: but yeah, we want to keep trying to do the
6:45
Speaker 1: parties because we know everyone needs some entertainment and it
6:49
Speaker 1: was just it's just so much fun to do. Yeah. Um,
6:52
Speaker 1: so if you know a better way, let us know.
6:55
Speaker 1: See I love Seen Her and I love to seven
7:00
Speaker 1: because to seven you can do pretty much every streaming service.
7:04
Speaker 1: But um, I feel like the benefit of Netflix Party
7:09
Speaker 1: when it comes to this sort of thing is you
7:11
Speaker 1: don't have to be friends, and it's easier to join,
7:15
Speaker 1: and the technical difficulty level is less because those two
7:20
Speaker 1: I mentioned our video chat, they don't have to be
7:22
Speaker 1: But I've just found that when you're in a small
7:24
Speaker 1: group of people that's really manageable. Um. But if you
7:28
Speaker 1: get more and more and people join at different times,
7:31
Speaker 1: it's just easier to do something like Netflix Party. But
7:34
Speaker 1: you want everyone to join, yes, yes, and it's uh,
7:39
Speaker 1: whenever you can however you can. But yeah, absolutely, if
7:42
Speaker 1: someone has a suggestion for other ways we could do that,
7:46
Speaker 1: we are all ears, um. But yes, today we are
7:50
Speaker 1: talking about the film The ch a New England folk
7:54
Speaker 1: tale also commonly known as the which it was written
7:58
Speaker 1: and directed by Robert Egger's It's Ours Anya Taylor Joy
8:01
Speaker 1: as Thomason, Ralph Innocent as the father, William Kate Dickie
8:05
Speaker 1: as Catherine, the mother, and Harvey Scrimshaw as the son Caleb.
8:09
Speaker 1: Those are our primary characters here. Eggers arrived at the
8:13
Speaker 1: very accurate, time appropriate dialogue by pouring through writings. Some
8:18
Speaker 1: of it's just taken from writings he found from that period.
8:22
Speaker 1: And so one of my favorites, as people know follow
8:24
Speaker 1: us on social media, wouldst thou like to live deliciously?
8:28
Speaker 1: What'st thou like the taste of butter? That's so good?
8:33
Speaker 1: Gon Um I used that quote all the time. Lauren,
8:38
Speaker 1: my co host Separate Savers, she has a shirt with
8:40
Speaker 1: black Philip that has that quote. I love that, of
8:44
Speaker 1: course she does. Um. So the plot, We're gonna go
8:47
Speaker 1: ahead and jump in there. Uh. It follows a pured
8:50
Speaker 1: in family. Father William, pregnant mother Katherine Thomason, the teenage daughter, Caleb,
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Speaker 1: the pubescent son. Young twins Mercy and Jonah's and not
8:58
Speaker 1: yet born Samuel recently emigrated from England to New England
9:02
Speaker 1: in the sixteen thirties. The movie opens with them banned
9:05
Speaker 1: from their town because of their father's over zealous beliefs
9:09
Speaker 1: his quote sin of prideful conceit, and journey out into
9:13
Speaker 1: the wild to build a home of their own, isolated
9:15
Speaker 1: from others on the edge of the woods, very ominous woods. Obviously.
9:21
Speaker 1: Um Thomason is the only one outwardly hesitant, and she
9:24
Speaker 1: looks back at their town as they leave. I okay,
9:28
Speaker 1: so I just gotta step in here. I love, love,
9:31
Speaker 1: love the building choir. When they see the tree line,
9:33
Speaker 1: it's like this discordant. I mean, as you said, it's
9:38
Speaker 1: like the darkness follows them and that is the sound, yes,
9:41
Speaker 1: and it has their praying and there they've arrived, and
9:46
Speaker 1: just the ominous foreboding. I love it it is. And
9:51
Speaker 1: of course something supernatural is going on. Surprise, surprise. The
9:57
Speaker 1: movie does not waste any time confirming at and within
10:00
Speaker 1: the first ten minutes, while Thomason is playing peekaboo with
10:04
Speaker 1: infant Samuel and he disappears while she has her eyes covered,
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Speaker 1: cut to an old, weathered, naked woman who cash phrased
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Speaker 1: the baby, kills him, and then grinds down the remains
10:14
Speaker 1: to a pace that she rubbed on her skin, allowing
10:16
Speaker 1: her to fly. Yes. I remember this very vividly because
10:20
Speaker 1: you go into this movie and you're thinking maybe there
10:22
Speaker 1: isn't a witch, and then in the first ten minutes like, oh,
10:25
Speaker 1: there's a witch and she just killed that baby. It
10:28
Speaker 1: was really sad. Yeah. Yeah. So Catherine the mother is
10:33
Speaker 1: clearly devastated, believing that Samuel is in hell since they
10:37
Speaker 1: hadn't even baptized him yet. She spends her time grieving,
10:41
Speaker 1: and she blames Thomason for the baby's disappearance and presumed death.
10:45
Speaker 1: William tries to maintain that wolves were behind the disappearance.
10:49
Speaker 1: So the farm seems to be cursed. Nothing will grow,
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Speaker 1: and what does is bad. They can't seem to forage
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Speaker 1: any food or find any game to hunt. Blood instead
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Speaker 1: of milk, comes from their livestock. While out on a hunt,
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Speaker 1: Caleb voices to William his fear that Samuel is in
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Speaker 1: hell and that's same may happen to him. Their hunts,
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Speaker 1: like a majority of their hunts, was unsuccessful. William sustains
11:13
Speaker 1: a minor injury when attempting to shoot a hair, one
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Speaker 1: of the first animals they've seen in the woods since
11:18
Speaker 1: they arrived, and the way it's shot there's something sort
11:21
Speaker 1: of off about this hair Um. He confesses to Caleb
11:27
Speaker 1: that he traded Katherine's cup for supplies. William does not
11:30
Speaker 1: the hair doesn't speak. Katherine blames Thomason for her missing cup.
11:36
Speaker 1: Caleb tries to step in and de escalate the situation,
11:39
Speaker 1: saying that his father and he went into the forest
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Speaker 1: to find apples, but that there were none. That night,
11:45
Speaker 1: the children overhear their parents planning to send Thompson away
11:49
Speaker 1: to serve another family. They also hear their fears that
11:52
Speaker 1: the whole family will starve right and then Caleb wakes
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Speaker 1: early in the morning determined to prevent this to go
11:59
Speaker 1: check so traps and in an earlier scene, we learned
12:02
Speaker 1: that Caleb is struggling with feelings of sexual attraction to
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Speaker 1: his sister's body. This is also when the twins accused
12:08
Speaker 1: Thomason of being a witch, which, by the way, those
12:10
Speaker 1: twins so creepy um that they're black goat. Philip talks
12:16
Speaker 1: to them and told them this, which, by the way, hello,
12:20
Speaker 1: big huge sign. I know, but I thought they were
12:23
Speaker 1: just being annoying. I never thought well and all my
12:26
Speaker 1: thought was their witches um. Thomason annoyed with the adamantly
12:30
Speaker 1: annoying twins scares them, claiming that is claiming that she
12:34
Speaker 1: is that which and they better mind her and keep
12:36
Speaker 1: quiet about this or else. And at first it is
12:39
Speaker 1: sort of a joke, but as the scene progressed, we
12:41
Speaker 1: see that Thomason feels power in scaring them. Yeah, and
12:45
Speaker 1: she does definitely scare them. Thomason coerces Caleb into allowing
12:50
Speaker 1: her to accompany him into the wood. They once again
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Speaker 1: see the hair and they're talking. Caleb chase after it
12:57
Speaker 1: while Thomason is rendered unconscious. After she's bucked from the horse,
13:01
Speaker 1: Caleb finds that their dog has been ripped open near
13:04
Speaker 1: the home of a beautiful woman in red or It's
13:07
Speaker 1: sort of like a I don't know hut entrance. She
13:12
Speaker 1: kisses her and as they're kissing, her arm transforms into
13:17
Speaker 1: something gnarled and old and she yanks him away out
13:20
Speaker 1: of frame. Always reminds me of a Game of Thrones, right. Also,
13:26
Speaker 1: why the dog just leave the dog alone? Just dog alone?
13:30
Speaker 1: So unable to find Caleb, Thomason returns home and Catherine's
13:34
Speaker 1: rage explodes, which, by the way, Katie, the woman who
13:37
Speaker 1: plays his character, is always seemingly this character he's noticed this,
13:43
Speaker 1: and she's really good at this. Severe look for sure,
13:46
Speaker 1: she's really good at it. She's got talent. Blaming Thomason
13:50
Speaker 1: for Caleb's disappearance and Samuel, so William confesses he was
13:54
Speaker 1: the one that took Katherine's cup. So one thing unfolds
13:57
Speaker 1: to another, and speaking of Caleb returns home that night
14:02
Speaker 1: in the rain, naked and ill. Thomason is the one
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Speaker 1: that finds him outside. He says, quote her nether parts.
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Speaker 1: She sends them upon me, blaming Thomason for his state,
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Speaker 1: and a sort of exorcism follows, and it doesn't go well.
14:19
Speaker 1: A bloody red apple emerges from his lips, and he
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Speaker 1: orgasmically and feverishly declares his love for Christ. The family
14:29
Speaker 1: prays together for Caleb, except for Mercy and Jonas, who
14:32
Speaker 1: claim that they can't say their prayers they can't remember them.
14:35
Speaker 1: Caleb raises off the ground, his body positioned like Jesus's crucifixion,
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Speaker 1: and he dies. Catherine becomes convinced that witchcraft is behind
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Speaker 1: his death and the fact that the twins can't remember
14:48
Speaker 1: their prayers. The twins blame Thomason, proclaiming her to be
14:52
Speaker 1: the witch, and again that earlier scene, she very much
14:56
Speaker 1: scared them into thinking that she might be, but also
14:59
Speaker 1: they we're annoying and might have thrown her under the
15:01
Speaker 1: bus anyway. Hurt and angry, Thomason accuses the twins, telling
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Speaker 1: her parents that they talk to their goat black philips,
15:10
Speaker 1: so they are the witches. William boards all three of
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Speaker 1: the children up into into their goat house, despite Thomason's
15:17
Speaker 1: desperate please, She overhears her father that night have a breakdown,
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Speaker 1: apologizing to God for his pride that led him astray
15:24
Speaker 1: from his true religious service, and surprise, things get worse.
15:31
Speaker 1: Later that night, strange noises awakened the children and they
15:33
Speaker 1: see an old woman drinking milk from the goats. Katherine
15:37
Speaker 1: sees Caleb holding a baby Samuel, and she takes the
15:39
Speaker 1: baby to breastfeed him, but in reality a crow pecks
15:43
Speaker 1: at her chest and her breast is bleeding. Is a
15:46
Speaker 1: very disturbing scene. When William goes out to check on
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Speaker 1: the children in the morning, he finds the goat house
15:52
Speaker 1: is destroyed, the animals are dismembered, the twins are absent,
15:56
Speaker 1: and Thomason is unconscious at the center of this orde
16:00
Speaker 1: structure with literal blood on her hands, it's clear. He
16:04
Speaker 1: thinks Thomason is behind it, but before he can do anything,
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Speaker 1: the goat Black Philip brutally kills him as Thomason screams.
16:13
Speaker 1: Catherine arrives, infuriated it and blames Thomason for all of
16:16
Speaker 1: the bad things that have happened, accusing her of seducing
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Speaker 1: William and Caleb. She attacks Thomason, strangling her, and out
16:23
Speaker 1: of self defense, Thomason kills her with the blade, stopping
16:26
Speaker 1: the entire time, saying that she loves her, that she's sorry.
16:31
Speaker 1: So her entire family now dead and prospects are grim.
16:36
Speaker 1: No horse, no food, nothing to trade. She numbly waits
16:39
Speaker 1: in the stable and calls on Black Philip to speak
16:42
Speaker 1: with her. Ah. He appears and asks if she wants
16:44
Speaker 1: to live deliciously yes, and transforms into the figure of
16:49
Speaker 1: a tall man dressed all in black. Ak Satan, Who
16:53
Speaker 1: do you ah? He promises her that she can, and
16:56
Speaker 1: that she can taste butter if she removes her shift
16:58
Speaker 1: and signs her name in this blood. So she does
17:01
Speaker 1: and follows him. They get into the woods to a
17:03
Speaker 1: coven of witches around a fire, levitating against the backdrop
17:07
Speaker 1: of a full moon, Thomason begins to levitate herself and
17:10
Speaker 1: begins to laugh uncontrollably as she goes higher and higher
17:15
Speaker 1: in the movie, I can only imagine if you had
17:18
Speaker 1: no idea, if you're a listener and you've never heard
17:21
Speaker 1: of this movie, didn't watch it, We're like, I don't
17:22
Speaker 1: really care to watch it. I'll just listen to them.
17:24
Speaker 1: That's quite the plot. That's ah. I can see how
17:30
Speaker 1: it would be strange to just hear it. Yeah, but
17:35
Speaker 1: that's pretty much what happens. We do want to unpack
17:39
Speaker 1: some themes, but first we're gonna pause for a quick
17:42
Speaker 1: break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back.
17:59
Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor. There. So, there are a lot, a lot,
18:03
Speaker 1: a lot a lot of themes when it comes to women,
18:05
Speaker 1: feminism we could talk about in this movie. That's one
18:08
Speaker 1: of the reasons I kept bringing it up, um, And
18:11
Speaker 1: perhaps one of the big ones is sexuality. There's this
18:15
Speaker 1: theme of Thomason coming into her womanhood throughout and how
18:20
Speaker 1: other people view that as threatening and even dangerous. So you,
18:25
Speaker 1: like we said, you have the mom who is jealous
18:28
Speaker 1: of Thomason's youth and desirability, who blames her for what
18:33
Speaker 1: she perceives as their attraction to Thomason. You have Caleb
18:38
Speaker 1: feeling ashamed of his feelings of attraction. Um, you've got
18:43
Speaker 1: some moments of weirdness between Thomason and her father. And
18:47
Speaker 1: that theme of how dangerous we see the sexuality of
18:51
Speaker 1: young women is present throughout. We we talked about that
18:54
Speaker 1: all the time. We see that in our media all
18:56
Speaker 1: the time, and it's something thing We're going to come
19:00
Speaker 1: back to this in a minute. But she is constantly
19:04
Speaker 1: blamed for and it's one of the reasons that people
19:07
Speaker 1: were so her family was so ready to think, oh,
19:10
Speaker 1: she is the witch. It is her fault that I
19:13
Speaker 1: feel this way, right, And of course, with it being
19:17
Speaker 1: a period peace, a religion is very much part of
19:21
Speaker 1: the story, and the motivations of the character's stem from
19:24
Speaker 1: the religion as well as their fear of it. Williams
19:28
Speaker 1: actions in pride around religion gives some banished from their town.
19:31
Speaker 1: Catherine's feared leads her to distrust her daughter Thomason, which
19:34
Speaker 1: we talked about. Caleb, so you're about going to hell
19:37
Speaker 1: and his giving in to his sexual desire leads to
19:40
Speaker 1: his death, and then Thomason struggling against the constraints of
19:43
Speaker 1: a religion so ready to punish and obviously blame her. Yeah,
19:48
Speaker 1: and I read a really interesting article that dealt into
19:53
Speaker 1: what their religion specifically would have meant at this time
19:57
Speaker 1: for women. And you know, you already have the constraints
19:59
Speaker 1: of you can't own property, and really you don't have
20:03
Speaker 1: that much agency, but the religion amplified that and specifically
20:08
Speaker 1: like this religion here, um, And I tried to I'm
20:12
Speaker 1: a big this won't surprise anyone, I bet, but I
20:16
Speaker 1: love like reading into symbols and what does this mean?
20:19
Speaker 1: And I noticed that there's seven people in their families,
20:22
Speaker 1: so I was trying to go through which of the
20:24
Speaker 1: seven deadly sins are each of them. I don't really
20:26
Speaker 1: think that's there. I think I was stretching, but you
20:30
Speaker 1: definitely see pride and lust and shame, just boatloads of
20:35
Speaker 1: shame at play. And if you if you go back
20:40
Speaker 1: to Thomason's confession near the beginning, when she's praying and
20:45
Speaker 1: she's saying, I've broken all the commandments and thought that
20:48
Speaker 1: she's played on the Sabbath of disobedience, that she's been
20:51
Speaker 1: neglectful of her prayer she's followed her own desires that
20:54
Speaker 1: she knows she deserves to burn in hell, but asked
20:58
Speaker 1: for mercy. She she seems to be the only one
21:01
Speaker 1: that realizes her sins. She's self aware of these things,
21:06
Speaker 1: but she longs for something more. She does not see
21:11
Speaker 1: drudgery as a moral good, which was something that was
21:14
Speaker 1: a common belief at the time. And of course, throughout
21:20
Speaker 1: most of the movie, Thomas In attempts to prove she
21:22
Speaker 1: is not a witch, because yes, witchcraft, that is the
21:26
Speaker 1: main point of this right, and whether or not they're
21:29
Speaker 1: controlling the bad things that are happening to them, um.
21:33
Speaker 1: And though she does see the potential power in it
21:36
Speaker 1: when trying to scare the twins, she is suspected because
21:39
Speaker 1: of her sexuality, surprise, surprise, and transition into a womanhood,
21:43
Speaker 1: and once her family is gone, she accepts the label.
21:46
Speaker 1: So it's kind of that same idea of the Salem
21:48
Speaker 1: witch child. So we're talking about earlier, um, a lot
21:51
Speaker 1: of the fear of women and their sexuality and or power.
21:56
Speaker 1: And then the which manifests is both the madonna and
22:00
Speaker 1: the whore, the crone and the sexy young woman again yeah, yeah,
22:05
Speaker 1: And as I said at the top. I think our
22:08
Speaker 1: pop culture as definitely normalized, which is and as I said,
22:14
Speaker 1: we're probably gonna just do all which content for this
22:16
Speaker 1: forever um, so it's easy, or at least it was
22:19
Speaker 1: easy for me to forget people were legitimately afraid of wishes,
22:25
Speaker 1: like they really did think that this was a thing,
22:29
Speaker 1: and that's terrifying, And it's terrifying to be on the
22:33
Speaker 1: other end, to be accused and not be able to
22:37
Speaker 1: do just because you're you're a young woman who's coming
22:39
Speaker 1: into her sexuality. So I love, I really did appreciate
22:43
Speaker 1: that this movie was able to do that in a
22:46
Speaker 1: way that I could connect to you, even in their
22:49
Speaker 1: old timey puritan dialogue. And yeah, during the Salem witch trials,
22:55
Speaker 1: any woman on the fringes of society and even those
22:58
Speaker 1: that weren't, uh, we're being able to witch. And there
23:01
Speaker 1: was a danger around that, obviously, But we can draw
23:05
Speaker 1: parallels from that to feminism, which we will in a
23:10
Speaker 1: little bit. But we wanted to also touch on this
23:13
Speaker 1: whole idea of not believing women because that is so
23:18
Speaker 1: so big in this movie, is so prominent. Thomason is
23:21
Speaker 1: doubted throughout the film no matter what she says or does.
23:24
Speaker 1: They are all so ready to blame her for things
23:27
Speaker 1: out of her control, including her sexuality. And because we
23:31
Speaker 1: have seen this in our world, this is a fear
23:34
Speaker 1: that a lot of us can connect to, especially women.
23:38
Speaker 1: It makes it easier for us to be unsure whether
23:41
Speaker 1: something is actually supernatural, and in terms of this movie,
23:44
Speaker 1: or if it's madness or both. Not being believed is terrifying,
23:48
Speaker 1: so is admitting the devil is reel both. They're scary, right,
23:52
Speaker 1: very scary. Um. There's also the layer of yes, there
23:55
Speaker 1: are witches, but they became witches because they had no
23:58
Speaker 1: other choice. They were pushed into that and they were
24:01
Speaker 1: told that we're going to be So yeah, let's lean
24:03
Speaker 1: into this um if they wanted to live to take
24:06
Speaker 1: his freedom or not die from accusations that were untrue
24:09
Speaker 1: at the time, So yeah, why not go into for
24:11
Speaker 1: the power? Well, it's one of those things where everyone
24:14
Speaker 1: kept telling her she was a witch and she was
24:16
Speaker 1: trying so hard to prove that she wasn't, even though
24:20
Speaker 1: like in her confession, it's clear that she wants something
24:22
Speaker 1: more than the very narrow existence she's been told is moral.
24:27
Speaker 1: So yeah, eventually, at what point do you say, okay,
24:32
Speaker 1: yeah right, I mean and we already know if Black
24:35
Speaker 1: Philip is the goat slash Satan who has kind of
24:39
Speaker 1: started this dialogue and thought process of your witch. And
24:43
Speaker 1: he implanted that into the Little Twins, creepy little Twins,
24:47
Speaker 1: almost as to breathe it to life. Yeah, well worked. Uh.
24:53
Speaker 1: Thompson is the only one not to be directly targeted
24:56
Speaker 1: by the Witch are Satan in one form or another.
24:58
Speaker 1: She instead is targeted by the mistrust of her family.
25:02
Speaker 1: She is blamed for Caleb paying her sexual attention. The
25:06
Speaker 1: movie also is about a father's pride and failing more
25:10
Speaker 1: accurately that I think they should be blaming him, who
25:15
Speaker 1: could be read as a stand in for the patriarchy,
25:17
Speaker 1: because he was the one that got them kicked out
25:19
Speaker 1: of their village. He sold the cup, he chose where
25:21
Speaker 1: to put their new home. He couldn't secure them food.
25:25
Speaker 1: He was too proud. Eventually he came to the realization, oh,
25:30
Speaker 1: we need we need help. But for a long time
25:33
Speaker 1: he resistant. He was too proud to go back to
25:34
Speaker 1: the village or admit he was wrong. Um. All he
25:37
Speaker 1: does is chop wood, and Black Philip gores him with that.
25:40
Speaker 1: In the backdrop as if to say, what they are
25:43
Speaker 1: these powers? You weak, weak, mortal. You thought you were
25:47
Speaker 1: doing something, but nope. Um. And yeah, as we said,
25:52
Speaker 1: Thomasin wanted to stay in their town, but she had
25:55
Speaker 1: no agency. She was treated like property. She she's even
25:58
Speaker 1: kind of framed that way as a leave for she's
26:01
Speaker 1: in the back of the wagon with all the their luggage.
26:05
Speaker 1: She watches their town. And speaking of the patriarchy and
26:13
Speaker 1: feminism as a theme, the creator Robert Eggers told USA Today,
26:18
Speaker 1: quote and all of my trying to stand back and
26:20
Speaker 1: be objective about themes, feminism rises to the top. And
26:24
Speaker 1: the spost question for the Satanic Temple specifically called it
26:26
Speaker 1: a tale of female rebellion and embracing being an outsider.
26:30
Speaker 1: So the Temple partnered with A twenty four, the distributing
26:32
Speaker 1: company for this movie when it was released, for some
26:35
Speaker 1: screening and talks, which is interesting. Um. And also there
26:40
Speaker 1: are less aligned with Satan and more aligned with things
26:42
Speaker 1: like gay and reproductive rights, which is cool. Um. The
26:45
Speaker 1: leader of the Temple, Jack Blackmore, said, as Satanists, we
26:48
Speaker 1: are ever mindful of the plight of women and outsiders
26:51
Speaker 1: throughout the history who suffered under the hammer of the theocracy,
26:54
Speaker 1: and yet fought to empower themselves. And while the patriarchy
26:57
Speaker 1: makes which is of only the most social vulnerable members
27:00
Speaker 1: of society, Egger's film refuses to construct a victim narrative. Instead,
27:05
Speaker 1: it features a declaration of feminine independence. Yeah, there are
27:09
Speaker 1: a lot of good quotes about this movie, and we're
27:11
Speaker 1: gonna end on to spectacular one. I've got to say
27:14
Speaker 1: before we get into more of the patriarchy and feminism,
27:18
Speaker 1: We're gonna get into one more quick break for a
27:20
Speaker 1: word from our sponsor, m and we're back, Thank you, sponsor.
27:37
Speaker 1: So another quote we want to include is from Diane
27:40
Speaker 1: Cohen at Marie Claire The Real Horror and Robert Egger's
27:43
Speaker 1: new film, The which a New England folk tale, isn't
27:46
Speaker 1: satanic goats, baby abduction or even defarius which is in
27:49
Speaker 1: the woods is limited and punishing road to womanhood. And Yeah,
27:54
Speaker 1: at the time, your path as a woman was wife
27:56
Speaker 1: and mother, no job, probably often arriage of convenience, as
28:01
Speaker 1: Thomason's parents were discussing for her. According to the religion
28:05
Speaker 1: that they followed, even your fate in the afterlife was
28:07
Speaker 1: out of your hands. So for a woman not following
28:10
Speaker 1: the rules pursuing autonomy meant literally going to hell. In
28:14
Speaker 1: the Puritanical interpretation, women were weaker than men inherently and
28:19
Speaker 1: easier to corrupt. They were dependent on men to receive
28:23
Speaker 1: God's directives. It kind of goes back to that whole
28:25
Speaker 1: Adam and Eve thing. Um, so they were easier to
28:30
Speaker 1: fall to sin, of course, I mean definitely. I mean
28:36
Speaker 1: Eve he started at all, she she did. We're actually
28:42
Speaker 1: going to talk about that in our book club one,
28:44
Speaker 1: or we already did talk about that in book. So
28:47
Speaker 1: I'm excited for for everyone to hear that. But I
28:50
Speaker 1: didn't want to talk about Black Philip because for me
28:53
Speaker 1: this was such a great reveal. I honestly, I think
28:56
Speaker 1: the first time I saw it, I thought they were
28:58
Speaker 1: just being annoying, or that it was another a weird
29:00
Speaker 1: thing the Which was doing to mess with their heads. Uh.
29:03
Speaker 1: This was like, not only are there which is messing
29:06
Speaker 1: with you, but the devil himself is messing with you.
29:10
Speaker 1: And the fact that he's a man. And Thomason asked
29:13
Speaker 1: to sign his book not only to quote live deliciously,
29:16
Speaker 1: but also as a last resort to me says that
29:19
Speaker 1: even a taste of freedom for women still functions within
29:22
Speaker 1: this patriarchal structure. It is the first choice she gets
29:27
Speaker 1: to make on her own, but it really it's not
29:29
Speaker 1: that much of a choice, right, She's cornered and do it. Um,
29:33
Speaker 1: And some interpret a Satan corrupting Thomason. If you look
29:37
Speaker 1: at the color palette in the final scene, is very
29:39
Speaker 1: different from the rest of the film, which for the
29:42
Speaker 1: most part have been drab and neutral. Yeah, you definitely
29:45
Speaker 1: have that ominous feel to it. And then in the
29:48
Speaker 1: end Thomas and his bathed in flames like hell, and
29:52
Speaker 1: her hair wild and down and naked and just floating
29:56
Speaker 1: and covered and not covered. Blood. There's spatters of blood spatters. Um.
30:01
Speaker 1: I wonder, you know, my horror movie theory, Samantha, it
30:03
Speaker 1: all comes back to the male fear of administruation, So
30:07
Speaker 1: I wonder if that's supposed to evoke her womanhood. Um.
30:12
Speaker 1: But also, yeah, if you compare the first time you
30:14
Speaker 1: see Thomason to the last time you do, she's like
30:17
Speaker 1: completely covered. She she's sort of all drab and dreary,
30:21
Speaker 1: and you know, her face is almost angelic. And then
30:25
Speaker 1: the last time you see here very much the opposite,
30:29
Speaker 1: very very different. So here's the quote we promised. I
30:33
Speaker 1: love this. Founder and writer of the Miss Squatonic Institute
30:37
Speaker 1: of Horror Studies, cure La Geni's called the ending a
30:40
Speaker 1: huge feminist kick in the balls. Love it, love it,
30:45
Speaker 1: and I do really appreciate um that there is a
30:48
Speaker 1: lot of feminist discussion and disagreement about how feminist it
30:50
Speaker 1: actually is. I love those kinds of things. And I'm
30:54
Speaker 1: also glad because, as you probably know, Samantha, someone who
30:57
Speaker 1: works on a show like this, sometimes I think, am
31:00
Speaker 1: I reading too much into this? But I'm I'm glad
31:04
Speaker 1: a lot of people had some some thoughts about feminism
31:07
Speaker 1: and this movie rights should I think so? I definitely
31:13
Speaker 1: think so. So. Yeah, that's what we have to say
31:17
Speaker 1: about The Witch for today. We do have some listener
31:20
Speaker 1: mail for you for this one. Yes, um So Grace wrote,
31:24
Speaker 1: I'm a longtime fan of the Sminty podcast and just
31:27
Speaker 1: finished listening to your recent episode on hearing and hearing loss.
31:30
Speaker 1: In the fall, I'll hopefully be starting my senior year
31:32
Speaker 1: of college studying audio engineering. The prevalent gender gap in
31:36
Speaker 1: the audio and music industries has been constantly seeking out
31:38
Speaker 1: new ways to start constructive conversations, including media to suggest
31:42
Speaker 1: to friends to get the ball rolling. Looking forward to
31:44
Speaker 1: sharing this episode into the conversations that follow. Inspired by
31:48
Speaker 1: the call to share media that might appeal to the
31:50
Speaker 1: sminty audience, I wanted to share an album that my band,
31:53
Speaker 1: Grace Kelly, released in February, and that's g R A
31:57
Speaker 1: C E K E L l I E No Space
32:00
Speaker 1: in Between. Grace Kelly, made up of two female audio engineers,
32:04
Speaker 1: is all about girl powered sound and music through a
32:06
Speaker 1: feminist lens. Our debut album, like the Princess, is available
32:09
Speaker 1: for streaming everywhere, and I think the spiny audience would
32:12
Speaker 1: be most into TSHA, Drink your Coffee Black and Not
32:14
Speaker 1: Scared of You, both of which are songs that expose
32:17
Speaker 1: and attempt to dismantle patriarchal expectations of women. Yay, I
32:22
Speaker 1: loved it. I listened to that. Uh it was great.
32:26
Speaker 1: Great word Grace. Um go check it out listeners. Uh,
32:30
Speaker 1: it is available pretty much wherever music is streaming. You
32:34
Speaker 1: wanted to find a new playlist, Oh that's right, we should.
32:37
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I would be great if listeners sent
32:40
Speaker 1: in the music or something stuff they created, we can
32:42
Speaker 1: make a playlist. I love it, so please Keep those
32:46
Speaker 1: things coming in. We we really do appreciate it. Keep
32:50
Speaker 1: those suggestions for what our next movie should be, our
32:53
Speaker 1: next watch party, or next to book club, and you
32:56
Speaker 1: can send those to our email, which is Stuff Media
32:59
Speaker 1: mom Stuff at I heart media dot com. You can
33:02
Speaker 1: also find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or
33:04
Speaker 1: on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks as
33:06
Speaker 1: always to our super producer Andrew Howard. Thanks to Andrew,
33:10
Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never Told
33:13
Speaker 1: You to production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts
33:15
Speaker 1: from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
33:18
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows