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Why Successful Women Stop Speaking Up at Work with Elaine Lin Hering · Loud & Lifted

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We're constantly telling women to speak up, advocate
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for themselves, and use their voices. But what
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if the problem is not simply that women need
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more confidence? What if many of us have spent
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years learning to withhold our opinions, needs,
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goals, and even parts of ourselves to make life
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easier and more comfortable for everyone else?
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My guest today, Elaine Lynn Herring, calls that
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learned silence. Elaine is a facilitator, speaker,
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and the author of Unlearning Silence, How to
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Speak Your Mind, Unleash Talent, and Live More
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Fully. In this conversation, she completely changed
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how I think about what it means to be silent,
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and honestly, what it means to be loud. We talk
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about why so many capable women lose touch with
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what they think and need, how workplaces reward
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women for being agreeable and easy to work with,
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and why vague feedback like, work on your executive
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presence can keep talented women stuck. We also
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get very practical. Elaine shares simple questions
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and small experiments that can help you rebuild
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your voice without suddenly becoming literally
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the loudest person in the room or even blowing
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up your entire life. Because being loud does
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not mean talking more or louder than everyone
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else. It means knowing who you are, understanding
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what you think and need, and having the agency
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to fully show up as yourself. Let's get into
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it. Welcome to loud and lifted Elaine. Thank
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you so much for being here. Thanks for having
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me. You know, there's some guests that we have
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on that their platform and their topics just
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align so beautifully with loud and lifted. And
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loud is our keyword today, which we'll get into
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that in a little bit more. But we'll kind of
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start at the beginning here. And, you know, as
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women, we're constantly told to speak up and
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advocate for ourselves and use our voice. And
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hey, I'm telling people to be loud, right? But
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you have some ideas behind your work that there's
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advice missing, something important, and that
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many of us have learned to stay silent for various
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reasons. So let's start there. When you talk
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about women unlearning silence, what exactly
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are we unlearning? Yeah. Well, let me define
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silence because some people are like, should
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I not be doing yoga? I'm like, yes. I mean, no,
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do yoga. But the silence I'm talking about is
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not the silence that many of us are chasing at
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the yoga mat. The silence I'm talking about is
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the withholding of self for the comfort and convenience
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of others. And that learned silence is, as a
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young child, I was supposed to be seen and not
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heard. I thought it was just my family, but I
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started talking with my Latina sisters and they're
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like, there's a phrase that our grandmothers
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repeated to us, which is Calladita te vis mas
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bonita. Essentially, you're prettier when you
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shut up. And in what ways, especially as mothers,
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do we withhold our own thoughts, needs, goals,
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hopes, dreams to take care of everybody else?
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So that withholding of self, whether it's a dream,
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a goal, a need, a wish, an emotion, because we're
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too emotional, we hold that to make it more comfortable
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and convenient for other people, to not rock
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the boat, to make things around the house and
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on our teams work. That silence has really negative
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impacts that we can get into. And so the unlearning
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is this realization that If it's something we
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picked up along the way, there are assumptions
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and behaviors and habits and patterns that we
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could examine. And if it's no longer serving
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who we are today or who we're becoming, we can
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choose a different way. But it comes, it starts
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with actually diagnosing the situation accurately,
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because so often we're told just speak up. Like
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you need to be more assertive, you need to smile
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more, smile less, I don't know, right? Talking
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a deeper voice, to have more authority. And that
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misdiagnosis sends us on a wild goose chase to
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say, okay, I'm like doing the thing, I'm being
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more assertive, but I'm still not getting that
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promotion. What's wrong? I must not be doing
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it right. Versus no, courage and confidence,
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all of those things are good. But the root cause
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is learned silence. where I might, without even
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knowing it, diminish my own perspective, or I
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think that I'm being humble by thinking about
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other people, or I'm a servant leader, and so
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I don't want to take up space. That is all learned
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silence for the comfort and convenience of others,
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and it's worth reexamining. That is the best
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definition I have ever heard, because you're
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right. When you say the word silence, people
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just think of sitting there being quiet. Yes,
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that's part of it. But the way that you explain
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that and the reason why people are silent, I
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think there is anyone who hears that that wouldn't
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be like, oh, I totally have done that, or I do
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that consistently in a certain situation. So
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I think that's such an important definition and
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to start there. And I know you talk about there's
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different kinds of silences. So do we want to
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dig into what those different kinds of silences
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are? Yeah, let's do that. But let's also just
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acknowledge many of us were rewarded for being
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silent. We were rewarded because we smiled and
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looked pretty. We were rewarded because we were
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easy to work with, i .e. I don't have any needs,
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goals, hopes, demands of my own, so you keep
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me in the friend group. Or you want me on your
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team. Or you take credit for my ideas and I don't
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push back and so you get credit and you get the
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promotion and I'm still stuck here holding, doing
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all the caregiving for everyone else. But also
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wanting to grow in my career but feeling stuck
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but being told actually the problems used to
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just go like get more confidence and then maybe
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we'll promote you. So you're a good team player
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when you do those things. Way to be collaborative
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and supportive. I love that your tone went up
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a notch. We all have had those conversations
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and there's an identity piece of us being rewarded
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relationally. for being likable, easy, good team
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player, but at what cost? And often the cost
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is our own needs, goals, hopes, dreams, aims
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are not fulfilled. That we're doing all the things
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that are right by other people, but are we doing
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right by ourselves and who we could be? And understanding
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silence in those three different ways, which
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is, well, what's the silence I've learned? Right?
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I've learned that I remember being in a kitchen
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with a friend and my mom played a, we were chatting
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with the boys were playing and my kid had finished
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drinking water from a glass. And the other mom
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asked me, like, do you want to drink? And I was
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like, sure, I'll have some water. And I picked
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up my kid's dirty cup and was about to refill
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it. And she's like, no, no, no, you, you can
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have your own cup. I was like, really? No. No,
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because that's like one more dish I have to wash.
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So there's an efficiency in reusing the thing.
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It's like, are we eating the crumbs left over
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from our kids' lunch because we made sure they
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had a balanced meal. Meanwhile, I'm eating crusts
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from the PB &J sandwich. Right. Right. In what
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ways have I learned to ignore or withhold my
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needs in part because maybe I expressed them
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to my spouse and it did not go well. Or I said
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it to my colleague and they're like, You just
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need to grow thicker skin. That's self -silencing
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that is mine to own. But one of my big realizations
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in my own experience was, wait, it's not just
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a personal flaw of mine or some behavior I learned.
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Other people are also benefiting off of me not
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having any supposed needs, goals, hopes, and
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concerns. because they get away with taking credit
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for my work. They get away with prioritizing
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the projects that they think are important. They
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get away with passing off my work as their own.
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And I've never met a leader who said, you know,
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I really want to silence and suppress the people
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on my team. Sure. But if we're, for example,
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requiring everyone to speak in three succinct
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bullet points with no ums, with just the right
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amount of emotion to show that you care, but
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not too much that you lose credibility, we have
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a very narrow definition of acceptable behavior.
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Oh, that's interesting. You're right, because
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it's not like they're walking around with duct
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tape telling you not to talk. No, but Betsy,
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you don't have presence. We can't have you present
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at the board meeting because You don't have a,
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you're not communicative enough, right? We need
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someone bolder. Well, what does bolder mean and
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what expectations do you have of me? And especially
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because you look at me as an Asian American woman
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and you have certain assumptions about who I
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am and how I sound. I've gotten, I'm a keynote
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speaker and I often get the feedback, oh, you
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weren't what we were expecting. Like, I'm not
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Tony Robbins. I don't aspire to be Tony Robbins.
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Tony Robbins is Tony Robbins. I'm Elaine Lynn
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Herring. I'm going to inherently sound different.
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I'm going to have a different affect. I'm going
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to tell different stories. But if leadership
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looks like Tony Robbins, then the rest of us
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don't fit. So it is also broadening our perspective
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of what is acceptable voice. Because maybe the
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long -winded rambly thing, there's a gem of an
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idea in there. But are we gonna listen through
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it or create space where it's okay to have first
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draft thinking? Or does everything need to be
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shiny, pass through Canva and on a succinct deck?
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As colleagues, as human beings, we're gonna miss
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out on brilliance if we are expecting everyone
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to, or everyone has to sound a certain way in
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order to be heard and respected. That's so true.
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And growing up in a large corporate organization,
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two of the words that I heard all the time, actually
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three, that make me still twitch to this day
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was polish and executive presence, right? I was
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told to work on my executive presence many times
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through my career there, which ironically, I
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went somewhere else and became a CEO. So funny
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how that works, right? Yes, work on your executive
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presence. Okay. What does that mean? Like what
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does that look like? Oh, it looks like the 55
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year old white men that are on the leadership
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team. I have to look and act like and dress like
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them. Like how does that translate? You know,
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Betsy, you should really shop at Brooks Brothers.
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That'll solve your problem. Right. It'd be so
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much easier. We're like a suit in every color.
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Yeah, what do we require of each other in order
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to be heard? you know, in chapter five of my
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book, A Learning Silence, talk about nine different
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ways that we silence each other. You know, having
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to show up in real time as a talker is one of
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them, but actually one of the ways that we silence
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each other is also just assuming that everyone
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is like us. Like if in that moment I would say
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something, right, I'm at the coffee shop, the
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barista got my order wrong, I would go back and
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say I ordered a latte, not a mocha. And if you
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don't do that, I'm gonna judge you. We are actually
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different people. And so there's a question of
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how can we, as a matter of being loud and lifted,
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lift one another by accepting each other and
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seeing the gifts of, it is a beautiful thing
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that you're Betsy and I'm Elaine, and we should
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not actually look and sound the same. There's
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enough of one of us in the world. Sure, right.
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How much is it is the... the desire for people
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to avoid confrontation or like how does that
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what is it playing into especially that self
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-silencing because i and i don't know this but
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i'm wondering like is it kind of like a 50 -50
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thing right like half time it's in my head and
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i have created this scenario that i think i shouldn't
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say or do something and the other half might
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be because of what i've experienced in my past
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so how does that sort of all play together in
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a really messy way that keeps people stuck And
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so to me, the opportunity is do a small experiment.
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And by small experiment, I mean low risk, strangers
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are great to practice on, right? No long term
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relationship. So probably don't start with your
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mother -in -law if you have one, but it is both.
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If we are trying to avoid conflict, often it
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is because we don't have reps where we said something
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expressed in a point of view or perspective or
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preference and it went well. That's not part
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of our data set. And so part of the point of
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doing low risk experiments is adding positive
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experiences to your data set. So an example of
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a low risk experiment would be you're going out
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to dinner with friends and you actually really
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don't care where you go or what food you have.
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But you might, as a matter of experimenting,
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just say, you know, like, what about Thai? What
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about Thai food? Because if people reply positively,
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you have a data point that actually you saying
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something mattered. If they don't latch on to
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it, they're like, no, no, no, we really want
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Italian. You're like, no big deal, right? I didn't
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really care about it. But it gives you the embodied
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experience of I expressed a point of view or
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preference. And I did not die. But like the relationship
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didn't break. Whereas so many of us, and I include
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myself in this, it's like I was raised where
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I couldn't push back. Or if I asked a question
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to my father, things did not go well. Well, not
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everyone in the world, not every man is my father,
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but I've got scar tissue there that makes me
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more conservative in whether I even try. But
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those experiments give me reps to say, I can
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say the thing, maybe. It changes the outcome.
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Maybe it doesn't, but actually I am still okay.
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And we relationally are still okay. That's such
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a great point. And, you know, I can think of
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friends or even coworkers through the years who
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were just so agreeable and almost like the people
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pleaser where they just never had a point of
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view or I'm sure they had a point of view, but
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they wouldn't share it. And there's been times
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where I've Sure, I've made people uncomfortable
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where I would push back and be like no I need
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you to have a boy And but you can just see that
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the discomfort with some people when you do that
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that it was like and it could Be something silly
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right again. We're not talking about saving lives.
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We're talking about where you're eating dinner
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or how to position something in a meeting, you
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know, just stuff that wasn't mission critical
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and just discomfort from these people in those
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situations. So someone's listening to this and
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maybe they aren't terrible at that. We can all
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be improving, but we talked about lifting others.
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How do we support other people in those situations?
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I think there's a key piece. And then I also
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want to go back to you said, maybe they do have
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points of view. Actually, let's go there first,
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which is This tracks my own experience. If we
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have lived a life solving for everyone else's
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needs, trying to please everyone else, there
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is a really disorienting moment of like, well,
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what do I think? Right? Do I have a point of
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view? I don't know if I do. And wait, I'm a grown
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ass woman and I don't know who I am and what
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I think. Ah. And I say that with such compassion
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because in my 30s, I had that moment where I
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have lived by everyone else's rules. I've had
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a very successful life as a result, but it's
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never what do I think or what do I want? It's
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what would my mom want? What would my boss want?
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How do I tow the company line? What's good for
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the family? And so there is a point where you,
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as a matter of silencing yourself or being silenced,
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that you no longer form a point of view. Now,
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the good news is that awareness means that you
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can do something about it. And to re -nurture
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your voice, you can simply ask yourself two questions.
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You can do it inside your head so no one needs
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to know yet. But what do I think? not what does
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my mother think, not what does my manager think,
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not what does best practice tell me to think,
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but what do I think? Do I agree with what they're
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saying right now, or do I disagree? What do I
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think is missing? Right, what do I think? And
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second, what do I need? Because especially as
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women, especially as mothers, no one else is
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thinking about what we need, as we are thinking
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about what everyone else needs. And that awareness
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of what do I think, what do I need, re -nurtures
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your sense of self. that there is a you in there.
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That's not just solving for everyone else, but
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who is unique, who is important, who is valued.
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That's how you get a point of view. Now, there
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are real career implications to this as well,
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because at an entry -level perspective, or before
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AI took over the world, you were rewarded and
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paid for what you produced. As you rise in the
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ranks, you're actually not rewarded for what
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you produce, you're rewarded for your perspective.
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Right your point of view you are the legal expert
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you are the marketing expert give me your point
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of view tell me. And so if. You know getting
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to live fully as who you really are is an incentive
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enough on the career front knowing that actually
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having a point of view is part of your value
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add that is different than. Are you the decision
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maker and are you owning the consequences? But
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are you adding your perspective because that
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is actually what you eventually get paid for?
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That's a great point. Now for the people, as
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you mentioned, who are worried about this, how
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do we create space and lift each other? I think
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it's really the mindset shift of, Betsy, if you
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can tell me what would make you happy or hit
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the notes for you, I actually can love you better.
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I can be a better friend to you. And so there's
18:34
a value proposition where we're putting the other
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person in a helper's perspective. You can help
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me be a better friend to you. It would really
18:43
make my day if we could have whatever would make
18:46
you happy for lunch. Can you help me do that
18:49
by telling me what you actually want? So it's
18:53
a bit of a mental hack. You know, another mental
18:56
hack is just the normalization of all human beings
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have needs. So the fact that you have needs or
19:03
preferences does not make you needy, which is
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often what we're trying to avoid because it feels
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like, oh, I don't want to be that person. If
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you even have that idea running through your
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head, if you don't want to be that person, I
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promise you, you are not that person. Never.
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That's so true. But you are human. Right. And
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that means that you have needs, goals, hopes,
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perspectives, preferences, and sharing those
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actually allows the people around you to love
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you at home, to know you, right? It's core to
19:40
intimacy in friendship or relationship or marriage,
19:42
and at work to actually support you to allow
19:46
you to do your best work. So sharing it isn't
19:50
selfish, it's actually of service. I like that.
19:53
That's good. It's actually of service. And it's
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interesting when you were talking about that,
19:58
I have a friend who recently just had a conversation
20:00
with where she's very strong, very capable, dependable,
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has a high stress job, high level leadership.
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It's suddenly coming to this head where you know,
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she has three kids she has a husband and and
20:12
everything is great But she literally is just
20:15
feeling this anxiety and this anxiousness all
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the time and she's like I don't even know who
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I am I don't even know what I want like and to
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her kids are older So, you know that that changes
20:24
your need to be the mom I mean how how that happens
20:27
or what your time is spent with but you know,
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she was really struggling she's like I don't
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even know what I would do in my free time. I
20:34
don't even know what I do to just relax. It's
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kind of like to your earlier point where she's
20:40
been so focused on everybody else that if you
20:42
would put her in a room and tell her to... think
20:45
about herself right that would probably make
20:47
her go nuts so how do we handle that i mean that's
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i think super common for these high high functioning
20:53
like you know super career -driven women where
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we have been we just check in the boxes getting
20:58
everything done taking care of everybody that
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we don't know what our point of view is yeah
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let me start with a mindset which is that change
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is a good thing change or changing your mind
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changing your preferences changing maybe even
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how you're showing up in the world doesn't make
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you unreliable. It doesn't mean you're a flip
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-flopper, right? All the narratives that we have
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for ourselves. Change just means you're growing
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and learning and still alive and evolving. So
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we'll start there because with your friend, I
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would say this is completely normal. Join the
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club. And because that sort of losing yourself
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in all the other roles that you play for everyone
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else didn't happen overnight, the re nurturing
21:47
of your sense of self is also not going to happen
21:50
overnight. It's not flip a switch. This is part
21:53
of why I love sabbaticals and I love experiments.
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because you can't find your voice, meaning how
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do I want to live, how do I want to show up in
22:03
the world, how do I want to use my gifts, skills,
22:05
talents, you can't do that in theory. You can
22:08
only do that in action. I used to teach piano
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and I had a very, I found her challenging as
22:18
a student. She was not great at focusing and
22:22
I tend to be a pretty mild -mannered person,
22:25
calm, I mean go the encouragement route. She
22:28
was raised by a grandmother who would yell. And
22:31
nothing I was doing was getting through to the
22:33
student. So I thought, let me just try yelling.
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Because it's not my first go -to, but nothing
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else seems to work. Maybe you're used to it in
22:40
your family system, so let's do that. And so
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I sort of yelled more loudly at her. My yelling
22:47
is not particularly loud. And it was like this,
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oh, OK, that's definitely not me. But there's
22:53
a trying it on. including the hobbies that you
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used to have pre -kids, the things that used
23:00
to nourish and rejuvenate you, they may not work
23:05
anymore because you are alive and you are evolving.
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And so there's a curiosity of, okay, who am I?
23:15
What do I think? What do I need? Maybe I'm like,
23:17
I need a nap. Maybe I'm like, I need alone time.
23:21
Wait, no, alone time's really scary, because
23:23
then I just have to sit with my own thoughts.
23:24
Like maybe let me go for a walk with a friend.
23:28
And also that things are going to change. I used
23:30
to find doing puzzles really calming, like putting
23:35
things in order. I was a puzzler. And these days
23:38
it just stresses me out. And so can we allow
23:42
for ourselves to be different people or different
23:45
manifestations of ourselves in different seasons?
23:49
And pairing that with a good healthy dose of
23:52
experimenting, trying it on, both in what we're
23:55
doing and what we're saying to other people,
23:58
right? At what point might I share with my spouse
24:01
or with my teenager of, no, I need a night to
24:06
myself, or you know what? I'm not cooking dinner
24:09
tonight. Everyone is on their own. Like, you're
24:12
old enough to order something or door dash or
24:15
stuff. You're like, figure it out. Make yourself
24:16
a sandwich. But we so often get hooked into the
24:21
roles that we've played and then worry about
24:24
the relational impact when we stop playing those
24:27
roles because other people rely on us. But what
24:30
we've missed in that is that they are also growing
24:33
and evolving. And us overcompensating for them,
24:39
maybe we might think because we're overcompensating
24:41
for their deficiencies, but it also means that
24:43
they don't get to grow. And in the meantime,
24:46
our own needs aren't met. And so the stance I
24:49
always take as someone who comes from classic
24:52
negotiation, interest -based negotiation theory
24:54
is you also are a party to the negotiation. Right?
24:58
Every person, every stakeholder has needs, goals,
25:01
hopes, and concerns. If you are a human being,
25:03
you also have a set of needs, goals, hopes, and
25:06
concerns that are just as valid as everyone else's.
25:09
And if you need to recultivate that awareness
25:11
of what those are, start with those internal
25:13
questions of what do I think and what do I need?
25:16
Because you will very quickly be reminded when
25:18
you give yourself permission to figure out what
25:23
your needs are. then it's pretty hard not to
25:27
share them with other people. Because in your
25:29
head, you're like, no, stop talking to me. I
25:32
just need a moment. That's a great point. So
25:37
what's the long -term cost of staying silent?
25:41
I mean, frankly, the long -term cost to staying
25:43
silent is comparable to smoking. or obesity in
25:48
terms of cardiovascular impact, in terms of a
25:52
compromised immune system. That's just the physical
25:55
health impact of self -silencing. And there's
25:58
a great Time Magazine article called, self -silencing
26:03
is killing women. And we can link that in the
26:05
show notes. But also there's another layer which
26:10
the surgeon general and everyone else has been
26:11
talking about in terms of social isolation. Right?
26:14
Silence means that you're not talking about what
26:17
really matters to you or the weight that you're
26:19
really carrying. And because you're not sharing
26:22
it with someone, right? Let me be really clear.
26:25
I'm not saying go post on social media about
26:26
every thought that you've ever had, but share
26:30
with discernment with someone so that you are
26:33
not carrying things on your own. I'd argue that
26:37
we fundamentally want to be seen, known, and
26:40
heard. right, to be loved if someone actually
26:43
knows me, knows what's going on, sees everything
26:46
I'm doing and and putting out there and acknowledging
26:50
that. And if I'm not sharing with someone what
26:55
is weighing heavy on me, I'm not only carrying
26:58
that thing, but I'm also carrying what I talk
27:01
about in the book is the double pain of having
27:03
to carry it alone. And if you're worried about
27:07
them making it worse, You can also text them
27:10
and say, hey, this is what's been keeping me
27:13
up at night. I don't want to talk about it further,
27:16
but I wanted someone to know. And so the way
27:20
that you can love me is just put a heart emoji
27:23
back. And if I want to talk about it further,
27:26
I promise I will reach out. But I just wanted
27:30
someone to know. That is so interesting because
27:34
I'm sure there's many people listening to this
27:36
who think, well, I don't speak up because it's
27:38
going to cause more angst, challenges, whatever,
27:42
and not even thinking, number one, what that's
27:44
doing to you physically, mentally, emotionally,
27:47
right? It has this toll on us and ourselves,
27:49
but it's... It is kind of selfish in the other
27:52
sort of way, right? Because if the other person
27:54
doesn't know or someone can't support you, it's
27:57
not their fault if you're not sharing that information.
28:00
So it's such an interesting perspective because
28:02
I think so many people think of it from the other
28:04
perspective of like, I'm just going to take care
28:06
of myself. I'm protecting others. I'm supporting
28:09
others. And you're doing the opposite. You are.
28:12
And I also get why you don't want to share with
28:14
other people. Right, like how many of us have
28:17
friends who well -intentioned friends end up
28:21
making it worse? Because they either make it
28:24
about themselves or they misinterpret what you've
28:26
said or they're that then you have to hold space
28:29
for them and you're like actually This is my
28:31
issue in the first place. Why are we now? Why
28:33
are we reverse roles? We don't all have through
28:38
maximum emotional intelligence, which is why
28:41
I'm also saying to the extent that you have an
28:44
idea of how people can best support you, sharing
28:47
it with them, like just put a heart emoji, actually
28:52
increases the likelihood they can support you.
28:56
And this is my lawyer brain where it's also a
28:58
matter of risk mitigation, right? I've told you,
29:01
I don't want to talk about it. I've told you,
29:03
you can text me an emoji if you don't follow
29:05
that. I'm not gonna go any further. That's so
29:09
true and it's funny because I can think of that
29:11
even with my husband there would be things maybe
29:13
happening at work right where I want to just
29:16
vent and get it out and he's a problem solver
29:19
so he would start well you should do this or
29:21
you and I'd be like so then I'd stop telling
29:23
him and and of course it was good intention on
29:26
his part so I at one point I was like you know
29:27
what I just need you listen please don't tell
29:30
me how to do it and again he was trying to be
29:32
helpful but I'm like just you're stressing me
29:35
out more I don't want to I just want to I just
29:38
want to get out there completely and in all fairness
29:40
in my marriage the roles are swapped so much
29:43
so that my husband has had to be like this is
29:46
a just listen moment like don't try to fix it
29:49
I was like got it but but you're missing this
29:51
this factor right like I'm a communication expert
29:54
I could help you here and it is also just letting
29:56
go of everyone needs to learn and grow in their
30:00
own time Which is deeply uncomfortable because
30:04
I would prefer they do it on my time, right?
30:10
So true and it's a problem -solving piece right
30:12
like and I can be guilty of that too and especially
30:15
with kids I think it's really easy where you
30:17
want to solve everything for your children and
30:21
kind of I need a little silence in my life in
30:26
that situation. And silence in that moment. I
30:29
want to be really clear that voice isn't just
30:31
what you say. Voice is how you move through the
30:33
world. And voice is you having the agency to
30:38
choose how you're showing up. And so for anyone
30:42
being like, but I don't want to share with someone,
30:45
OK, that's your choice. I do want to increase
30:50
the likelihood that if you wanted to share with
30:53
someone, you could, because none of us can do
30:56
life alone. But at the end of the day, no one
31:00
can make those choices for you but you, because
31:02
no one knows what you're carrying, no one knows
31:04
the risks, no one knows what's really keeping
31:06
you up at night. And so for everyone who's just
31:10
like, you just got to speak up more, you just
31:12
got to do this, the well -intentioned problem
31:15
solving, it's... Hey, friend, hey, Betsy, like,
31:19
how can I best support you? No, that's great.
31:23
And I joked in the beginning about the loud part,
31:25
right, versus the silence. And when loud and
31:28
lifted doesn't mean being the loudest person
31:31
in the room or the person being demanding, you
31:33
know, banging their fist on the table. That's
31:36
not what being loud is. It's just... Talking
31:38
and contributing and speaking up and supporting
31:40
other people when it when it makes sense, but
31:42
everyone's voice is different But just knowing
31:46
where you are and what you want is is part of
31:49
that not being silent, right? And I think it's
31:51
we get so black and white with what that means,
31:53
but it's looking at it from a whole different
31:55
perspective It's not just okay. Go to a meeting
31:57
and just learn on everything that comes To your
32:01
head, right? Like this is not anywhere close
32:04
to what's being suggested when we talk about
32:06
and learn silence. Totally. Let me offer two
32:09
things. One is a practical phrase, because I
32:12
know some people are like, okay, well, I know
32:13
what I think and what I need, but literally,
32:15
like, how do I inject into the conversation?
32:18
My favorite go -to phrase is from where I sit.
32:21
From where I sit, that timeline doesn't make
32:23
sense. From where I sit, I don't understand how
32:26
this event is financially viable. But from where
32:32
I sit is just my vantage point, viewpoint of
32:35
the world from my home office or cubicle or I'm
32:40
in Boston versus in Bangalore or whatever it
32:43
is. And it very naturally begs the question,
32:45
well, what do things look like from where you
32:47
sit? And then it is conversation rather than
32:51
conflict, because we've each got different pieces
32:53
of the puzzle, rather than you know, none of
32:56
us are omnipotent. So none of us have like a
32:58
hold on the truth. And from where I sit, just
33:02
to use that, from where I sit, I actually see
33:05
loud as fully being yourself. Right? I am aware
33:11
of who I am, my gifts, skills, talents in the
33:14
world, the things that I want and I need to live
33:18
a sustainable, healthy, meaningful life. And
33:21
I am fully living into that. That to me is loud.
33:25
That to me is power. I might have to use some
33:27
of those words on the website. You're welcome.
33:30
Thank you so much. Because we are so often told
33:37
to be loud, but not all of us are loud. Not all
33:39
of us are Tony Robbins. Sure. Right. Absolutely.
33:42
No, thankfully that would not work if the whole
33:44
world was like that. So if a woman's listening
33:47
to this and she's like, wow, okay, I definitely
33:50
have been to What's the step? Like, what are
33:54
the baby steps? How do we just start to make
33:56
progress to find that voice? Yeah, we've talked
34:00
about a couple of options. One is those internal
34:02
questions to re -nurture your voice. What do
34:05
I think? What do I need? Second, you can't figure
34:09
it out in theory. You can only figure it out
34:11
in action. So do a small experiment. That could
34:14
be dinner with friends. That could be at the
34:16
coffee shop. That could be you would normally
34:19
just let things go, but you're going to write
34:22
back an email, you know, from where I sit, this
34:26
timeline doesn't make sense. What do things look
34:29
like from where you sit or why does it make sense
34:31
from your perspective? Right. And each of those
34:36
experiments really is a fact -finding data gathering
34:40
exploration. Often our worst fears are, you know,
34:45
they're going to hate me. They're going to CC
34:49
in everyone in the world on an email thread.
34:51
My career is over. Our brains, as a matter of
34:54
human survival, go toward worst case scenario.
34:58
What we don't factor in is best case scenario,
35:01
in part because we can't even see it. And for
35:04
me, this is incredibly personal because I became
35:07
the first nonwhite partner at this global leadership
35:10
development firm based on teaching other people's
35:12
content. And I also realized that the content
35:15
we were teaching around how to negotiate, have
35:17
difficult conversations, give and receive feedback,
35:19
it worked for some. And there are still lots
35:24
of people who wouldn't negotiate, have difficult
35:26
conversations, give and receive feedback, which
35:28
is what led me to say, what gives? What are we
35:31
missing? And what we're missing is this learned
35:34
silence and the factor of how we silence each
35:36
other. And there's a whole story about how the
35:39
book came together, but I am now living, including
35:43
real costs. I'm no longer a partner at that firm,
35:46
which maybe explains everything everyone needs
35:50
to know to fill in the details. But I also could
35:54
not imagine the life that I get to live now.
35:57
Loud, fully aligned. Being able to craft a life
36:02
that actually works for me and my family and
36:05
my values. I couldn't see that when I was in
36:08
the middle of it. It was just an inkling of there's
36:12
something here. There's something here that people
36:14
aren't talking about. What's the next step? And
36:18
especially when the costs feel high of not taking
36:21
the right step, we can get in analysis paralysis
36:24
of I don't know. I'm just going to stay stock
36:27
versus do something. Try something. Don't obsess
36:31
about the next right step, just what's the next
36:35
experiment? Because each experiment, each step
36:38
inherently gives you a different vantage point
36:40
of the world, gives you new data, and you figure
36:43
it out from there. We are inherently incredibly
36:46
capable people. So for someone who's thinking,
36:49
how do I find and use my voice, ask yourself
36:52
those questions, try the experiments, read the
36:56
book, Unlearning Silence, and really don't do
36:59
it alone. Because you may think, as I did, look,
37:05
there's no one who gets me. There's no one who's
37:08
living my life. And that is true. There's no
37:09
one who is living your exact set of factors.
37:12
But you are not alone in caring everything for
37:15
everyone else. Maybe even having a life that
37:18
looks amazing on the outside, but isn't clicking
37:22
or fulfilling deep soul fulfillment on the inside.
37:27
And you are not imprisoned. You're not trapped
37:33
in that life as long as you keep choosing a next
37:37
step. That is coupled with what we talked about
37:41
earlier of let ourselves evolve. I never intended
37:44
to be an author. I actually don't advise it.
37:49
But it is also an incredibly powerful way to
37:52
share ideas with the world. And if you're doing
37:54
something that you think matters, you take on
37:57
different identities and your life has different
37:59
trappings than you might have thought of. And
38:02
we're asking what could go wrong and we're not
38:07
asking what could go right. And we're focused
38:10
as a matter of using our voices. What's the benefit
38:12
of silence and what's the cost of speaking up?
38:15
But the other set of questions is, what's the
38:18
cost of silence? And we talked about some real
38:20
ones today, physically, emotionally, relationally,
38:24
happiness -wise. And also, what are the benefits
38:27
of using your voice? Because the benefits of
38:30
using your voice are out there, but right now
38:33
they're theoretical. And I hope that they become
38:36
a reality. Oh my gosh, that was... an amazing
38:40
recap of all the important points and and and
38:44
I love that you're you're right it's steps and
38:46
I think it can be very paralyzing because somebody
38:49
thinks they have to change everything tomorrow
38:51
and it's just taking steps and you're gonna mess
38:53
up right that's the other part there's you're
38:55
gonna speak up on something or own something
38:57
and then be like oh okay that didn't go as It's
39:00
okay. That doesn't mean you stop doing it. So,
39:02
you know, it's just it's this process and this
39:04
evolution. And I love how you recap that and
39:07
explain that because it's so important. And again,
39:10
no one's perfect. We're all struggling with this
39:12
in some kind of space. So just figuring out how
39:16
to identify the problem, number one, and then
39:18
making those changes moving forward, I think
39:20
is beautiful. So thank you so much for that.
39:23
Where can people find more information and connect
39:26
with you? Yeah. And your book, of course. ElaineLynnHaring
39:30
.com or the same handle, Elaine Lynn Haring on
39:33
LinkedIn, Instagram, Substack. And the book,
39:37
Unlearning Silence, How to Speak Your Mind, Unleash
39:39
Talent and Live More Fully is available wherever
39:42
books are sold. Amazing. I love it so much. And
39:44
we will link all that in the show notes as well.
39:46
So Elaine, thank you so much for being here and
39:48
thank you for sharing your story too. Thanks
39:50
for having me. I absolutely love this conversation
39:52
because Elaine gave us such a different and much
39:55
more useful way to think about silence. It's
39:58
not simply sitting quietly in a meeting. It is
40:01
the way we minimize our opinions, ignore our
40:03
own needs, avoid asking for help, or become so
40:07
focused on taking care of everyone else that
40:09
we eventually lose touch with ourselves. And
40:12
the solution is not to wake up tomorrow and suddenly
40:15
say everything you have ever thought. out loud.
40:18
Please do not blame Elaine or me when this goes
40:20
sideways. It starts smaller. Ask yourself, what
40:24
do I think? What do I need? Try expressing a
40:27
preference when the stakes are low. Use Elaine's
40:30
phrase, from where I sit, when you need to offer
40:33
a different perspective. Let someone know what
40:35
support actually looks like instead of hoping
40:37
they figure it out. Every one of those small
40:40
actions gives you another piece of evidence that
40:42
you can use your voice, remain connected to the
40:45
people around you, and still be okay. You can
40:48
learn more about Elaine, her work, and her book
40:50
on learning silence at elaneherring .com. We'll
40:52
also link everything in the show notes. And as
40:55
always, lead louder, grow stronger, and don't
40:58
do it alone.