Latest / Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast / BPS 460: Making Independent Films Without Hollywood or a Huge Budget with David Ash

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BPS 460: Making Independent Films Without Hollywood or a Huge Budget with David Ash · Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more
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  Speaker 1: amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifahpodcastnetwork dot com.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number four sixty.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Your dream doesn't have an expiration date, Take a deep
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  Speaker 2: breath and try again.
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  Speaker 1: Kat You Whitten broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in
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  Speaker 1: Hollywood when we really should be working on that next draft.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: screenplay bulletproof.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast.
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  Speaker 3: I am your humble host Alex Ferrari.
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  Speaker 4: Now.
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  Speaker 2: Unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses
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• 1:34
  Speaker 2: Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullets.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: On today's episode, I chat with a filmmaker who actually
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: lives two lives, which I think all of us do,
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: because you know, in the day, we work a day
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: job and then we make films on the weekends, right
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  Speaker 3: night or wherever we can until we can make movies
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  Speaker 3: full time. You know, it's kind of like a side
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: gig or a side hustle or a weekend warrior type thing.
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  Speaker 3: So usually if you're like me, you to hide that
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: side and you kind of make you know, I have
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  Speaker 3: two LinkedIn's, I have two different twitters, et cetera, because
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: you don't want them to bleed into each other because
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: usually it doesn't end well. My next guest, he actually
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  Speaker 3: constantly just goes out and says, yeah, I make films
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  Speaker 3: for the Weekends. Yeah, I was in the paper and
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: I also work at this company. So he's kind of
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: like the Iron Man, you know, he's just at the end, he's, oh,
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: by the way, I'm Iron Man. I do all this stuff,
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: and if you don't like it, whatever, But he's embraced
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: it and it's worked very well for him. We're gonna
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: talk about his new movie called Twin Cities about living
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: a double life, and we're talking about filmmaking and winning
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: writing contests and being flown out to LA and he
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: saw the frustration not being able to make his own
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: movies because these guys are gonna make it. We're gonna
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: talk about all that stuff. Really cool interview, So without
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  Speaker 3: further ado with guests. David ash Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: I fell long story Shri. I did well enough on
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: his career in contests that they brought him out to
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  Speaker 4: LA to kind of do the LA thing and me
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  Speaker 4: with some producers and stuff like that, and you know,
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  Speaker 4: I really realized from that experience that basically, there's no
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: way hell there every gonna make my movie. And that
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: became pretty apparent. Not that they didn't like it, just
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  Speaker 4: wasn't the kind of stuff that they were interested in.
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  Speaker 4: So from there, you know, pretty much on the flight
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  Speaker 4: from from LA I decided I want to just learn
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  Speaker 4: how to make films so that it actually got made
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  Speaker 4: rather than just stacking up on my shelf here. So
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: so we have an I f P on with that
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: or not. It's an independent feature project, which is kind
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  Speaker 4: of a local thing here in the Twin Cities for
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: filmmaking photography. And I started taking a lot of classes there,
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  Speaker 4: you know, everything you had taken filmmaking, screenwriting, uh, directing,
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  Speaker 4: you know, editing, lighting, audio, anything they would provide, I
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: would I would take it, and uh just kind of
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  Speaker 4: learned it that way. And then you know, got into
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  Speaker 4: one of the classes, I think it was in short
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: of film production and in the class we actually had
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  Speaker 4: to make a short film. So I made a short
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  Speaker 4: film in the class, just using other students in the class.
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  Speaker 4: We shot at about two and a half hours. It
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  Speaker 4: cost about fifteen bucks to make it, and it actually
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  Speaker 4: got into some festivals and you know, played in a
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  Speaker 4: few of these fast not just here, but you know internationally,
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  Speaker 4: and that was really kind of the spark for the
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: whole thing. So after that, the actually the guy that
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: was teaching that class asked her if I wanted to
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: keep making films, I'm like, yeah, of course I do.
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  Speaker 4: So he was actually also the facilities director of the IFP,
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: so we could get our equipment for free. So from
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: there we just started making short films. I think we
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: made five or six about a year. This is now
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: probably eleven twelve years ago. Those did pretty well, gotten
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: some fast and such, and then you know, got a
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: little tired of just making short films, and then I
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  Speaker 4: made my first feature about ten years ago. It was
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: a documentary called Love of Documentary, and we made the
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  Speaker 4: whole thing for eat or Bucks. Well, yeah, I think
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  Speaker 4: I let's say a thousand art film, you ask me,
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  Speaker 4: but uh, you know, definitely uh not high budget, but
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  Speaker 4: uh that actually gotten some pasts as well. And you
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  Speaker 4: know from there I've made two more, much more bigger
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  Speaker 4: budget films since then. But that was the way that
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  Speaker 4: the Shart oft the whole thing.
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  Speaker 3: So you mentioned you have a degree in business administration,
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: as do I. Uh So it's kind of it's kind
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: of ironic because you and I see that's one of
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: the reasons I wanted to talk to you, because you
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  Speaker 3: and I have a very similar path. Because I have
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: a degree in business administration. I thought about going for
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: an NBA, and I said, what the hell am I thinking?
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  Speaker 3: And thanks, and I decided, uh, you know, I used
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: to work at a college and they were going to
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: offer me with free masters, and I decided not to
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: go that route. And it wasn't the NBA. There's a
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: couple of different options, and I thought, I, I don't feel
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  Speaker 3: like going for two more years of school for a
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: degree that I just don't know if I'm going to
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  Speaker 3: fully use. So you know, but it was very similar though,
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  Speaker 3: because during college I realized that I didn't want to
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: really do go into business or anything like that. So
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  Speaker 3: it's you know, it's just kind of ironic because you know,
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  Speaker 3: if you got that business degree, you know, and you know,
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  Speaker 3: you mentioned that you started taking some screenwriting courses. We
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: know we're with these like online seminars.
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: Now there's there's a place to call it the it's
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: actually a literary loft. It's a place that offers just
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: writing classes of all kind And one was a screen
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  Speaker 4: rining class. It was a night, you know, once a
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  Speaker 4: week for probably two months. It was anything huge and
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  Speaker 4: that was really the only screen rining class I had,
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  Speaker 4: But it was It really helped to kind of understand
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  Speaker 4: the mechanics of the film, you know, writing works and such.
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  Speaker 4: So that was that was how I got started screenwrinning
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  Speaker 4: as far as the educational part of it.
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  Speaker 3: So so when you did take that course, you know what,
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: like what were some of the things that really you know,
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: stood out for for for you for taking that course.
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  Speaker 4: You know, I think the first thing was, you know,
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  Speaker 4: screen scrip, I shouldn't be four armed pages. I think
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: that was a good learning, you know, because I was
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: just writing, and Ryan Raye and the teachers like, you know,
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  Speaker 4: you gotta pare this thing down quite a bit. We
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: can't have you know, fifty pages of this dialogue in
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  Speaker 4: a row. It was just kind of learning film language
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  Speaker 4: and you know, three structure, all that kind of good stuff.
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  Speaker 4: So I was really a baby in the woods before
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  Speaker 4: I took that class. And then I've kind of learned
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  Speaker 4: more as i've done it since then, but it was
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  Speaker 4: really just the basics and then you know, earning your
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: h you know, you're ending that kind of thing. I
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: was kind of a big thing with that instructor. But
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  Speaker 4: that was really just the start of I think I've
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  Speaker 4: I've learned a lot since then, just doing the screenwrite
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  Speaker 4: in the filmmaking, But that was the first time I
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  Speaker 4: actually understood you couldn't just write four or five hundred
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  Speaker 4: pages and call that a film, right.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and definitely, and just to go along with that,
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  Speaker 3: it's also about you know, writing a scene, what makes
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  Speaker 3: a scene, putting all those together, actually making sure the
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  Speaker 3: screenplay actually, you know, works and it's not just basically
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: a election of you know, someone's day as they sort
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: of just go through the minutia, you know. Yeah, is
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  Speaker 3: I mean because you knew writing going into this, So yeah,
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  Speaker 3: I'm sure you knew about tension and building characters already.
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  Speaker 4: Right yeah, but yeah, I mean not not in the
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  Speaker 4: form of filmmaking, though I kind of you know, I
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  Speaker 4: knew it for more the literary side of things. And
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  Speaker 4: you know, the biggest thing just was for me. It
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  Speaker 4: was learning that you know, you can do in film
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  Speaker 4: with you know, three or four lines and the right
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: shots we you know, would normally do in three or
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: four pages in a book for example, and just pairing
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: everything down to and something I'm still learning I'll pay
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: everything down to just exactly what you need nothing more.
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  Speaker 4: So that takes a long time. To learning frore not
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: I used to that, and you want to just kind
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: of expound on everything and nausea on which I learned
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  Speaker 4: very quickly, was not the way to go about it.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, you're very true. Yeah, you know, And what I
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: was just getting at was, you're just about coming to
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: building characters, you know, like character descriptions and stuff like that. Obviously,
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: you know, you can't put in like Fitzgerald pros where
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: you know, he describes the curtains or whatever, you know,
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: for a couple of pages. But you know, it's about
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: economy of words. So so you know, after it was
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: all over, did you actually have a you know, a
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: ninety year one hundred page screenplay?
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I got it down to maybe one
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: twenty one thirty, you know, and that was the script
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: I used to kind of get into the contests and
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: and such. And you know, some of those contests, if
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: you do well enough, they give you like free feedback.
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: So that was a good learning as well. And you know,
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: for me, the biggest thing that helped me with screen
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: I was just having to actually make the damn things myself, right,
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: because then he realized, if you're making these kind of
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: amateur mistakes. Once you get on a set, you know
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: it's irresponsibility to make it enough film and you learn
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: very quickly you know, when you're directing, you what you're writing,
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: that the script has to be something that's directable.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: So we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: That just kind of diving in and starting to make
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: films after I had, you know, just only written a
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: few scripts was definitely the best education I had, you know,
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: in my whole career was just going and doing it
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: and getting progressively better at understanding what a script should
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: should do and how it should look and in terms
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: of you know, building scenes and such, and you can't
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: replace just having to do it yourself, I think any
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: kind of film film school or class. So that's my
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: you know, my biggest advice to filmmakers and folks wanting
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: a filmmakers always, you know, don't don't necessarily go to
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: film school, just you know, start making a film, even
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: if it's going to suck, and it will suck, you know,
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: the first two will definitely suck. But you have to
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: just kind of learn my doing otherwise you know, you're
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: not going to quite controlize what you need to internalize
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: in terms of how it's actually done.
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of like what Robert Riguez says, you know, basically,
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: you have like a bunch of bad movies in you
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: in you, and you have to get down out as
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: soon as possible.
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: Absolutely true. Yeah, I still have probably haven't gotten out yet.
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: That's yeah. Uh, we're getting there, you know, depending on
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: how you talk to you, I think we've we've gotten
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: most of them out.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I found the key is is to just when
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: you're first starting out especially, is to aim low. And
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: what I mean by that is don't say like, hey, listen,
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna go out this weekend, I'm gonna I'm gonna
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: shoot a short film for ten grand and we're gonna
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: have blood and squibs and you know, blanks and everything else,
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: and we need to I mean, I think that's where
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: just a lot of filmmakers tend to shoot themselves in
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: the foot.
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's absolutely true. And I've said that before in
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: similar kind of interviews and hells about. You know, if
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: you're having to make what you write, you realize very
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: quickly that you have to write to what you can make. Right,
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: you have to write something you can actually shoot, and I,
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: you know, I learned that pretty early on. I made
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: a short film. I want to get into it, but
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: it was just a effing nightmare because I fell in
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: love with the script, and then trying to make it
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: became just a vortex of pain and agony if everyone
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: involved for a very long time. And I was like,
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: you know, I'm never a gun going to write a
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: script that I can actually make very you know, reasonly,
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: only at the budget that I've got. Otherwise it's just
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: pointless and just leads to a lot of frustration and
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: people hating you.
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's very true. But I think we all have
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: those stories, you know, Dave. I think we all have
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: those stories where we tried to do something a little
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: too much, too quickly, and it ended up, you know,
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: we kind of brought some people down with us. I
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: made a short film one time that literally everything that
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: could go wrong went wrong, and finally we were like,
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: this was after the whole day everything was going wrong, right,
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: and we had to go outside to shoot this one
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: scene and I thought, may hey, listen, you know this
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: can't go wrong, right, This cannot go wrong, Dave, I shit,
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: you not. It starts pouring rain like you didn't believe.
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: And I said to myself, I go, this, this can't
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: be happening, Like I have to be in bed dreaming
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: that this is all just happening and I'm going to
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: wake up. But no, it's it was real life. Unfortunately,
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: I just I ended up shortly then after that, the
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: director's cinematography actually just like vanished and I couldn't find them,
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: and I was like, what the hell? And so I
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: I and just to you know, just to surmise that
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: whole story, I actually met him or reconnected with him,
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: probably a few years ago. When I actually asked him,
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: I said, did I do something? Was it that day
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: that did it? And he goes, well, that day was bad.
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: He goes, but the whole but but He's like, the
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: whole reason was and there was a whole other reason
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: that was going on in his personal life that thankfully
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: had nothing to do with me. And I was like, oh,
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: thank god, I didn't want to be responsible for this
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: guy quitting film.
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, let's cut the intargent. Otherwise you'd your whole
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: life thought of pages. That's as good.
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: No, but you mentioned your short film that anything went wrong,
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: and you know, again, I think we all have those.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: And so as you you know started to go through
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: you know, deciding to make you know, more films, you know,
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: you worked a day job at the same time.
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I always have. That's that's kind of I think
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: the UNI think of where what I do is that, Yeah,
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: I didn't just you know, go into writing after I
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: got the m Yeah, I suhally into business and I've
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: this is probably twenty years ago, you know that graduate
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: from grad school and very corporate finance ever since. So, yeah,
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: I'm currently a exec at e colab here in Saint Paul,
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: and you know that's a pretty involving gig. You know,
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: probably fifty sixty hours a week on that side of things.
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: I've got four kids ages thirteen through seventeen. That is
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: a little consuming pretty much all the time. And then yeah,
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: and then doing the film stuff on top of that.
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: So it's really been you know, uh, just trying to
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: find a way to do it and just doing it.
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: You know, It's there's no real easy explanation for you know,
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: making six short films and three features in the last
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: thirteen years, other than just willing yourself to do it,
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: because it's you got a lot of it, or you
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: won't you won't do it. I guess it's easy to
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: say and say, but it's it's not for but I.
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: But I think I have a pretty good example of,
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: you know, if you want to make a film, get
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: into filmmaking. You know, I mentioned some of the budgets
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: that I worked on. We're pretty much peanuts, and you
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: really don't have an excuse for at least not trying it,
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: given the way the technology is now and how you
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: can make a film for cheap, and you just kind
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: of do it when you have time. And you know,
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: I think if nothing else of my story is something
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: that hopefully can inspire folks to just you know, not
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: say I can't do this because I've got a day job,
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: and I've got a family, and I've got everything else
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: in my life, because you know, if I wait for
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: that stuff to to not be around, I would never
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: make a film. So I'm glad I've done it. It's
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: kind of exhausting sometimes, but it's also gives you energy
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: because it makes you, you know, want to get up
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: and keep keep pushing at it. So now I'll keep
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: doing it. You know. It's it's something I love to do.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: So I wanted to ask what when? So does it
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: ever come back? Does it ever? What I mean by
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: that is, do people ever like search for you online
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: and they'll say, hey, Dave, is this you? Or something
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: like that where you're well, Because at work, I imagine
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: that happens, because I mean imagine people are because you know,
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: you're the Treasury director and I imagine you probably you know,
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: people look you up on LinkedIn or what have you,
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: and I'm sure they're probably like, hey, Dave, is this
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: you in the local paper or whatever.
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it happens a lot. I mean it, It really
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: started happening last fall. We did our most recently feature
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: of twin Cities actually had his local premiere here in October,
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: and as part of that, there was a big feature
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: stories in both the Minneapolis papers as well as the
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: Saint Paul Paper in consecutive Sundays, and that kind of
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: reaches pretty much ey y in the state that reads.
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: You know, so there was a lot of that, you know,
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: at work on Monday, like, Wow, I didn't know you
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: did this because I don't talk about it at work,
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: and I don't really It's not something that a lot
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: of folks are he doesn't doesn't come up in a
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: lot of meetings about finance and accounting, let's put that way.
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: But yeah, folks definitely at that point were very supportive
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: and very interested, but also very shocked that I was
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: doing this on the side addition to you know, being
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: a treasure director for re Collabs. So it's u Most
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: people think it's great. Some people are just like what
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: the fuck are you do? We do you know? But
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: over almost positive.
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I was expecting that a lot of
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: people would be like, oh, hey, David, why are you
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: doing this and this, or maybe even saying because I
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: mean that that's happened to it. A lot of different
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: people on this podcast where they've worked a day job
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: and you know, they worked at they were like, you know, what,
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: what the hell? But did anyone ever come up to
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: you and like pitch like, hey, you know I have
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: a friend or daughter or cousin that wants to be
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: in movies.
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I get them more like when I
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: do some panels now and then, I always have one
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: personal cub, she wishly walk up to me. I had
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: one not too long ago, and it was her husband
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: always wanted to write a screenplay and we meet with
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: them and you know, basically be his mentor. I I'll
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: talk to him. I'm not going to you know, uh,
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: going to readjust my life for his film career. But
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: that's that's something that's pretty common, uh there, and then
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: that that work. It's more like, hey, I want to
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: do a person that wrote a book, and that's pretty
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: cool too. And you know, there's not many filmmakers in
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: corporate finance. I would just say as a rule, but
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: everyone knows somebody that does something sort of similar and
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: they want to talked about, which I think is great,
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: you know, but yeah, I've had that experience quite a bit.
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: Actually, So have you ever actually met with somebody? So
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: if somebody has ever requested it, like hey, Dave, you
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: just meet my husband wife or whatever, have you ever
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: ever actually sat down and met somebody?
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: Probably not, Probably always figure out a way out of it.
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: I'm just kidding. Now that's going to mind. I. I
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: I'll have a drink with somebody like after a film
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: panel and that kind of thing, but nothing like formal
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: like hey, please show me how to do what you've
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: been doing. But I'm always I usually just gonna send
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: on some links to some stuff and you know, give
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: in contact with the IFP here, which is a great place,
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: like I got started to get started and throw them
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: that way because they've got all the classes there to
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: get involved and all that. But yeah, I don't generally
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: do a lot of one one mentoring. I guess i'd say.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because I've noticed that comes up a lot too,
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: is the whole like, hey, would you mind meeting somebody?
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: I agreed to it one time, and I think the
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: the person I met was had a different idea of
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: what screen running was or is. Basically, I just started
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: talking about screenwrinning theory. I said, you know, what are
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: your questions, what do you have? What do you want
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: to know? And I did this for a friend. You know,
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: this is kind of like a professional acquaintance slash kindest
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: sort of a friend, if you know what I mean.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: And I and I met with her and went with
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: her daughter and her daughter I think was just kind
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: of a little taken aback and didn't really have any questions.
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: I think she was kind of expecting me to like, hey,
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: here's the key to all of this, and this is
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: what unlocks.
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: All the doors, right, Yeah, that's the folks. Dently that
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: I've talked to think as well, is that you can
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: just kind of like to the least time I've talked
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: to folks, but then what I do. It's generally like,
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: you know, well and you know seven email with how
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: you did this right, and it's like, well, it kind
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: of takes twelve fourteen years of work to kind of
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: get even to where I'm at, which is not exactly
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: you know, big budgets, big budget land. But yeah, it's
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: folks think it's just something you just kind of write
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: down on a piece of paper and you to somebody,
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: you know.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: Yes. And and I once was out of writing a
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: seminar a slash pitch event and this mutual friend of mine,
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: you know, can walk up to me and said to me,
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: you know, hey, Dave, I want you to meet somebody.
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: And this guy he was wanted to get into screenwriting,
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: and every question was about basically money, was like do
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: they still give people million dollar contracts?
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: This? And that.
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: I'm like, what do you care? You've been written anything?
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: Like you think give them crime billion dollars? What does
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: it matter to you?
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, it said, Yeah, the good thing to
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: know about filmmaking is like, yeah, I think about half
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: percent actually make a pretty good living at it. Another
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: nine nine point five or just you know, doing it
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: because I love it, honestly, And most folks don't realize that,
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: you know, they watch the Oscars like a few days ago,
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: and I think that you're making films, you must be
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: real rolling and rolling in it. That's pretty much the opposite.
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: You just have to do it and love it and
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: hopefully something comes to at some point. But otherwise, you know,
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: I I haven't made a ton of money and I'm
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: happy with what I've done, so you know that's usually
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: the end result of this kind of stuff.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right, uh and so so just continue on with
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: your with your journey, you know, after you you know,
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: we were before we get to Twin Cities. You know,
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: I just want to ask, you know about any of
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: the other short films, you know, before we talk about
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: Twin Cities. Is there anything else that that's sort of
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: really like you wanted to to to sort of like
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: talk about a discuss to focus on just because you know,
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: usually the short films, as you know, Dave, are kind
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: of like the setup for a feature film.
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a great way to get started. I would
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: definitely recommend doing shorts. I've gone some filmmakers that just
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: go directly in features, and I don't think that's the
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: way to go. I mean a lot of these shorts
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: were five to ten minutes, you know, some of them
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: were like fifty bucks. But you know, they all played
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: a small to medium sized festivals, which is great. But
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: I would definitely go with that route. I think I
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: would have not probably done any differently than I did
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: it if I had to do it over again, which
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: was make five, five or six shorts and then kind
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: of get your your voice on what you want to
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: do with film dialed in before you tackle the features.
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: So you know, I would say, you know, do that
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: and then put it online. You know, you're you're not
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: going to find a more ruthless audience and putting something
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: on YouTube. So that's a good indoctrination into you know,
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: film criticism for you because the comments there will if
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: you can if your stomach that, then you can probably
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: stomach making a feature film because that's a that's a
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: great proving ground I think is getting it on YouTube
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: and getting some clicks. We did have one that went
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: pretty viral a couple hundred thousand, I think, pretty quickly.
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: And it was very politically oriented. And that's one thing
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: I learned about, you know, that kind of you know,
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: getting short films out there is but it's politically oriented
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: that it seems that folks were really ready to jump
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: in on one side of the other on it. And
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: that was definitely the most the biggest short film we
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: had was was what they had a pretty pretty hard
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: liberal bent to it, and you could get all of
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: the all the trump Trumpsters and and such out the
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: woodwork to really you know, share with their friends because
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: they hated so much, or vice versa. And uh, you know,
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: I guess what I'm trying to say is if you
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: want clicks, make it politically orient on one side of
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: the other. And that's kind of the the MILLIU right
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: now and online is political stuff that folks just want
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: to either attack it vaciferously and set their friends they hated,
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: or send to their princes they love it. But that was
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: my experience with short film making was that we made
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: some films I thought were much better, but they didn't
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: have anywhere attractions that.
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: And that was the Obamacare website explana right.
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: No, it was actually not that one. That one. That
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: one was out there too, but it was about it
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: was about a father talking to a son, and the
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: father was very hardcore right wing and the son was
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: very liberal and kind of setting him straight as they
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: went along the path there. And we did it for
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: actually a political action group called Live Liberal, and they
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: asked us to make the short films myself and this
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: other guy that I mentioned that got into filmmaking, and
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: we did it just for them and then just kind
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: of took off from there. But yeah, the Obama thing
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: was also pretty poll political, but this one was very
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: at a very defined point of view, which really kind
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: of set some folks off, which was which is fine
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: with me.
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: I mean, well you're you're at least evoking some kind
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: of emotion, right, and then that that's what we're after, right.
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah exactly, Yeah, for sure.
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: So you know, with with the Obamacare website explanation, I
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: haven't actually seen that, and I actually saw that, and
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: I was like, did he make it up on the
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: Obamacare website, because it's possible, But then you know, I
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: imagine it was probably you know, like a parody video.
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that was basically that was going back a few years.
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: That was when Obama the website, if you recalled, didn't
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: exactly set the role on fire, and they had a
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: ton of problems with it. So he had this really
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: I've got to Obima fan. It was very earnest, kind
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: of rose garden explanation for all the things that had
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: gone wrong with it and why that was okay and
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: it was still going to be great. And what I
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: did was I subtitled that with what he was actually
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: trying to say, which was of course heavily satirized and
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: that kind of thing. So it was, you know, I
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: consider myself a liberal, but that was pretty much making
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: fun of Obama, which went the other way. Is the
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: other short film, so I'll say it to me, want
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: to check it out, But I did not know as
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: much an he clicks as the the one that pissed
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: off the Republicans.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: So so once you actually started, you know, you know,
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: making these short films, you know, making them for you know,
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: fifty eighty one hundred bucks, you mentioned you made another
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: film for a thousand, the future film for a thousand,
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: you know, you know, so what was the you know,
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: the impetus there? You know, did you start with the
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: budget or did you sort of write it and say,
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: you know, hey, look it's only going to cost one
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: thousand to make this now.
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: Actually that one actually started as a short film, and
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: it was the whole setup was was cheap to begin with.
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: It was basically a documentary about a guy who you know,
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: worked in an office and he thought that God had
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: come to him and impored him to spread love and
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: joy throughout the world. So it was this kind of
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: found footage type of doc about this guy and his
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: you know, very jaded coworkers, and you know, kind of
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: played off the tension between that. See, he had kind
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: of scenes of this person talking, which actually was played
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: with myself, and then scenes of things just going horribly
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: wrong in the office as he tried to kind of
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: impart this spiritual journey he was on. And we shot
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: it actually had IFP using the equipment from IFP, and
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: you know some actually professional actors believe or not from
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: the area. They were willing to do it for you know,
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: pizza and die coke. And it was literally like, I
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: eight hundred bucks for eighty three minute feature film. What
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: you gotta can send me if you want to watch
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: your link to your your podcast listeners. And it actually
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: played some festivals and it did very well one award,
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: and it was you know, people either loved it or
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: hated it, and those that loved it really loved it,
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: and those they hate it really hated it. But it
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: was it was really proving for me that I actually
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: could make our feature film, and until then it was
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: just kind of something that other people didn't. And you know,
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: we started with the short film and I just kept
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: writting more and more pages along the lines of this
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: the story, and before we knew we had forty or
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: fifty minutes, I'm like, well, if it's gonna be that long,
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: let's make it a feature. And we just blew it
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: out to a full arc of a film. I think
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: it was eighty three minutes until and just did it
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: on you know, literally less than a thousand bucks.
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: And you know, once you actually were able to shoot this,
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: you know what what locations we were? You like us
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: and you used you know, I mean, do you ever uh,
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: while while I'm thinking of it, I'll kind of shoot
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: myself in another question, do you ever did you ever
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: shoot at your office? I mean, obviously if you want
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: to answer that you don't have to, but if that's
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: like the secret, but.
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: No, we not in my office, but we shot at
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: for both a couple of scenes in twin Cities and
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: a couple of scenes and uh twenty twenty one, my
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: second feature, we shot at my wife's office, which is
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: was Minnesota Public Radio. So they they were very you know,
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: accommodate of that kind of endeavor and they they let
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: us shoot there for free and it was great. So
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: we shot. You don't know, if it's just unline for
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: the last the last two features, we'll be.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Right back after a word from our sponsor and now
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: back to the show.
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: So they just basically do they ask you like anything
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: like the usual two questions are is there nudity? And
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: is their blood? That that's and every time I've walked
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: up locations that was the two questions. Is there violence
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: like blood or is their nudity? And and usually the
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: answer is yes.
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: No, Uh, there's actually a no on both those accounts.
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: For for us even better, even better, But.
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: They didn't ask We could have done that. I should
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: have probably thrown that in there, you know. Good, so
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: no no duty or violence, but not because we couldn't.
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: It's usually when when when you're asking those things they
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: do they ask you about insurance.
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: They were just incredibly lax about the whole thing. No,
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: they didn't ask about any shit. It was just kind
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: of like, we're gonna come in on a Saturday and
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: we're gonna shoot from you know, eight to five. And
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: you know, my wife came with me because she works there,
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: and didn't really ask any questions. They were they thought
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: it was great. So I think that's you got to
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: really be carefully you choose. I don't think my equlab
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: would have been that way where I work. So they
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: were just like, hey, just go ahead and do it.
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: So I got lucky, the very lucky my friend. See,
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: that's the thing, man, when when you have a connect
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: there and you're able to come in and professional and
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: also you know you're still in an area where, hey,
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: filmmaking is you know, people haven't beat over the head
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: with it like a sack of oranges. You're kind of like, hey, look,
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: you know it's still cool and neat, and you know
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: Dave's wife works here and this and that. You know,
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: because because you know, they always say in LA in
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: New York, as soon as we ask to film somewhere
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: it becomes like a huge pain in the ass and
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: they're like another thing was to you know what I mean,
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: And it's just it doesn't have that that cool cache anymore.
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: So Philly was kind of like that for a while.
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: Now it's back up to be like, hey, you're you're
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: doing something, are awesome. I want to help you out.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: But but that those are the things that for all
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: the all the listeners I keep harping on about locations,
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: it's it's the blood, gore, the violence of the nudity.
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: They sometimes ask about out insurance. I mean, you can
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: always sign waivers, but I mean if they allow you
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: just to make hey, look, you know we trust you
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: and you're not gonna do anything crazy. You know that
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: that you can't beat that, it's amazing.
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah. That was actually probably the easiest location we had.
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: I mean we had some that were not not easy.
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: We shot a day at a hospital er parking lot
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: and it was I didn't have says, I didn't have
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: permission for it. We got permotion for everything else, but
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: we were going to get it. But we needed this
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: very key scene, which is actually the last scene in
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: the film, and we shot pretty much an entire day,
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: and it was all in interior of my sev and
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: about halfway through they came out with security and they said,
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: you know what, what the fuck are you doing? Basically,
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: and I'm not sure what what words I strung together
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: to get them to go away, but somehow I did it,
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: and we just kept shooting, and you know, day turned
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: the night and they finally came out with more security
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: dudes and probably some firearms and and such, and they're like, Okay,
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: whatever you antellis is not going to work. You need
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: to get that out of air. And fortunately we were
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: done except for one shot. So we went to a
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: different parking lot where we could just see the exterior
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: shot and and patch together and work perfectly. But that
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: was probably the most stressful day of shooting I've ever had,
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: because you had, uh, you know, ere our parking lot
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: and kind of swarming security guards and I knew we
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: had we probably couldnt shoot nowhere else and get the
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: same kind of shot, and we had to have the
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: scene to make the film work. So you know, I
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: wouldn't recommend that, but we did it.
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: So Lesson learned, well, you know that that's amazing that
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: you were able to get him go away the first time.
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I don't re call what I said. I
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: probably pulled some I don't know one to have pulled
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: my butt. I couldn't. I could not tell you. But
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: they I think they just scratch their heads and left
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: and we just sid okay, let's keep shooting, and we
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: powered through. And we've had you know, I've had a
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: few similar shoots like that where you're just really on
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: a tight deadline, but they always know you're you're you're
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: supposed to be there. But this was one where we
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: just we're just gonna do it even though we're not
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: supposed to be there, and you know it's in the film,
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: so it works out.
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: I mean, like literally, you guys just rolled up into
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: that hospital parking lot and like I was, shoot here.
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they had it's got like I got to have
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: an eight or nine other e R parking lots, and
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: I wanted something that where we could it's hard describe.
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: I want a certain shot, and I wanted to have
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: like the emergency parking lots signed the background and to
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: make it all kind of come together. And it was
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: the only parking lot I could find that works. I
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: really wanted to to shoot there. I didn't think we'd
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: have a shot and help we asked, so we just
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: kind of just did it, you know.
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: And that's gorilla filmmaking, right, You gotta just you just
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: gotta go out there and do it, you know. I imagine,
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: And I'm just gonna just just food for thought, Dave.
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna imagine that when they probably approached you, they
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: probably said are you guys supposed to be here or
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: something like that. You and you probably said, oh, yeah, yeah,
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: we're just finishing up and this and that, and they
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: probably went away to go check. Because I've seen that
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: happen before. They're like, oh, oh, are you guys supposed
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: to be here? Yes, And then by the time they
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: get back, you're either gone, or they forgotten, or they
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: don't care anymore to even pass it up to the line.
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: And and but it seems like that time they actually
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: did they actually.
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: It was probably three or four hours later. That's the thing.
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: I knew, if they're gonna go check. I think it
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: was kind of like, well, these guys will leave pretty
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: soon anyway. We'll let this one go with that. We're
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: out there, you know, four or five hours later, they're
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: probably Okay, this is not cool, so I'm not I
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: can't sound im proud of that. But it turned out great,
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: you know. And that's that's that's the non Hollywood filmmaking
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: right there.
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the true indie film spirit. Matt, my friend
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: at that. That's what that is. That's what you gotta do.
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: You gotta you gotta steal locations at times, and that's uh,
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: you know. I I one time I was talking to
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: Scott macmand and runs Film Trooper, uh, and I told him,
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: I said, I think that's the number one problem for
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: most filmmakers is getting locations. And I honestly I I
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: often said it'll be a great idea and it could
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: never work. But here's my idea, Dave. It's like a hub,
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: kind of like Facebook. You could friend another filmmaker and
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: let's say, you know you, you and I both lived,
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: and let's just say boise Idaho, Well I have film
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: connections and and you know you have film connections. Well
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: we could sort of put up the you put up
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: on a on a on a poster or whatever. Hey,
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: look this is who I know at this hospital. This
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: is what they did. They let me shoot here. Uh,
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean like obviously you wouldn't do
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: it to your for your own house unless you were insane,
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: but you know if they if you, they would let
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: you shoot somewhere and make me, hey, this is an
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: abandoned house, this is how I got to shoot there,
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: blah blah blah. And that's basically it almost become like
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: this collage of sorts of city by city of all
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: the places where you could where you could shoot, and
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: that are that are friend friendly to filmmakers.
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: Oh that's a great Yeah, yeah, that's you know, someone
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: we got through the film board. They would post locations
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: online and you I'd call the film and say, hey,
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: look that that's a film friendly place and they would
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: always say yes, but I love your idea. I mean,
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: anything like that, because it's a very dawning when you
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: start an indie film to not know where you can
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: shoot it, and you know, when you don't have a
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: lot of cash to get these guys to shoot, you're
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: really just kind of begging, which I've done a lot of.
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: But do you kind of just kind of learn how
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: to what they want to hear? You know, like I said, insurance,
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: we generally do get insurance and waivers and all that kind
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: of stuff, you know, and then you figure out, you know,
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: what what to say to get the local. But every
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: location I think I've had, even you know, where we're
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: supposed to be, it's it's super stressful because usually it's
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: in my case, it's been you know, a bar that
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: opens at eleven for lunch, so you've got like four
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: in the morning until eleven thirty, and then you got
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: to get in six pages or something. And every single
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: location shoot I've been on, besides my wife's office, it's
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: been that kind of pressure. And that's it because comes
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: with the territory. I think. You know, that's again the
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: not Hollywood filmmaking that you just somehow make it work, right.
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly because I And I've been there before too, man,
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: where I've showed up on a Saturday morning at like
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: six or seven am and they're like, oh, yeah, well
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: we're going to open today at one or whatever, and
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: You're like, all right, well here we go, right, let's
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: get let's get wrong with this bad boy. And so
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: I mean, and I've been there man, where people don't
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: show up, you know, people show up late or ultra late.
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: I mean, I you know, at some point I should
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: just do a podcast one episode. Why just tell a story?
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: But all the all the horror stories I have, but
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: I remember, I mean some of these where people would
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: show up not at all and you're sitting there calling
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: them and they're like, oh, I forgot today was the thing,
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: And I'm like, well, I sent you ten thousand emails?
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: How the hell did you fuit this?
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that is the most. You can count on,
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: that more anything else in any filmingause somebody's not gonna
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: show up or show up late, and you know that
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: that's that's a given. I mean, Twin City is uh
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: another kind of example of working around stuff. Have you
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: seen the film? Are Not? But the lead character, the
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: lead uh character, Emily, is played a Bethany Fort Bankley,
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: and she's awesome, but she was actually had like a
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: five month old kid when we were shooting, so she'd
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: sometimes I have to bring her baby on set and
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: it would usually had nanny therefore, but we'd be through,
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: halfway through a really intense scene that's going well, and
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: then the baby start crying.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: And that would be the done to that, and those
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: are a few shoots like that. So it was always something,
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: and it is always something when you're working on this
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: kind of level of filmmaking, and you just kind of
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: have to not get frustrated and just you know, working
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: around it somehow. But yeah, it's it's everything in the
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: kitchen saying for every every shoot that I've been on
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: at this level.
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you mentioned Twin Cities, and I wanted to ask
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: you about that film now because that that's you know,
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: I know, you actually debut that film, and you know
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: it's been playing in a few festivals. So I wanted
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: to ask, you know, if you could just you know,
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: take us through the film, you know, you give us
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: a long life, you could.
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah. So it's actually a sequel to twenty twenty one,
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: of my second feature film, but it's a very kind
• 40:54
  Speaker 4: of spiritual sequel versus like an additional sequel. But it
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: picks up four years later with thesely characters John Emily
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: and they're married now and the bleak character Emily, as
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: I mentioned, she's actually pregnant. Someone's pregnant with their first kid,
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: and that kind of sends the husband John into a
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: tail span, and you know, things are really falling apart
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: and looks like it's all going to kind of turn
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: a ship for for the couple in their lives. And
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: he gets his cancer diagnosis which shakes him out of
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: his his downward spiral and sets him on kind of
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: a new course in life to you know, make amends
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: with his wife and to kind of find his God
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: and go on this sort of spiritual journey to to
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: find himself. And that's the basic set of the film.
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: There is about halfway through a very i would say
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: extreme twist which I gentally don't give away in case
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: folks want to see the film, but it really from
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: that point on becomes a much different kind of film
• 42:03
  Speaker 4: in terms of I would say, a different kind of film.
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: But the plot kind of turns on its head and
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: it becomes a sort of a more reflective type of
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: narrow structure. That is really the reason why it's called Twins.
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: That besides back that libert it's it's got a kind
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: of dualistic narrative that it plays out after this very
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: jarring twist to the to the plot and it you know,
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: it kind of gets bananas from there at that point.
• 42:34
  Speaker 4: So that's probably a much I can tell you without
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: spoiling the whole damn thing. But that's that's the basic
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: setup of the film.
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: And so you know, once you actually wrote the screenplay
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: for this, Dave, you know, how did you go about
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: raising the funds to actually shoot this? Did you sell
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: finance this movie.
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: Most of it? Yeah? I mean generally what I've done
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: is I just put my an angle bonus my job,
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: and I you know, I just put my bonus in
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: it when I'm making a film, and I never really
• 43:06
  Speaker 4: use my actual paycheck for filmmaking. So you know, for
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: this one, I used a couple bonuses and I used
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: I got a snowbathed from the Minnesota Film Board. They
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: played for a good check of it through their their
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: rebate program, which is really an incentive to to film
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: in Minnesota, and that was that was very helpful as well.
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: So when when you told your wife wanted to make
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: a film with the bonus, did she just fu did
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: he think you were crazy? Or or she used to
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: it like okay, David, you know it's yeah.
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: No, she's been great. I mean she's got kind of
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: her own artistic endeavors, so it kind of he wents out.
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: I want to go into that but it kind of
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: we both have this sort of side thing. We did
• 43:48
  Speaker 4: our job. She's a hr director and has her own
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: kind of career, but then she also does a lot
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: of artistic stuff on the side that balances out what
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: I do. Know, we're we're very accounting with each other, like,
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: you know, how I want to, you know, spend some
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: cash on on this thing that I really am a
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: passionate about. And it really wasn't very hard of us sell.
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: I did the same thing for a second film and
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: she was around for that as well. So I think
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: it'd be different for us saying well, look, you know,
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: we're gonna have trouble maybe making more eaes now because
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: I use my paycheck for this. The fact that's really
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: just my bonus. It's kind of like, well it's found
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: one anyway, and you know, uh, go for it. So
• 44:28
  Speaker 4: she's been great, honestly, not kind of the opposite of
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: what you might expect, but she's been fantastic about the
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: whole thing.
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I And and you know that that's good that
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: that you know, she's supportive of this. And so where
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: people where can people find out more about Twin Cities?
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah? So the website is uh just Twin Cities the
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: film dot com. We've got our trailer on there, a
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: ton of stuff, you know, clips from the film, synopsis,
• 44:54
  Speaker 4: a bunch of reviews for the film. We've actually got
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: I think, really great reviews for the film. So there's
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: a lot of that on there, casting crew bios, you know,
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: all the all the stuff you'd want on a website.
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: More is on there.
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: And I will link to that in the show notes
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: everyone at davilis dot com.
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: But Dave, just just in closing, you know, I wanted
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: to ask, is there anything we can get a chance
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: to talk about that you want to just to say
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: right now? Anything you want to discuss right now, or
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: or maybe it's just something you want to say to
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: put a period at the end of this whole conversation.
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess, Well, two things. I mean, first of all,
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: what I'm working on now. I've been working on a
• 45:29
  Speaker 4: TV series since we finished Twin Cities production about a
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: year year and a half ago, so that's kind of
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: my next thing. So I'm you know, you know, doing
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: press for the film, but also kind of trying to
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: you know, generate some possible interest in in this. Uh.
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: I think it's gonna be a nine episode first season series.
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: I'm working on that. Hopefully we'll get some external financing
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: for I'm not using my bonies for that. So, uh,
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: that's the first thing that's just kind of throwing at
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: that out there, that that's sort of my next project,
• 45:56
  Speaker 4: and I'm really excited about it. Yeah, beyond that, I
• 45:59
  Speaker 4: think you know it, you know, I think what's interesting
• 46:03
  Speaker 4: about my story Probably reason to i'd be honest, is
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: because I've got this whole other life besides filmmaking. So
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: you know, I do try to encourage folks that want
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: to get into filmmaking, would think that they can't because
• 46:15
  Speaker 4: they've got this you know, very consuming day job or
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: anything else in life that think is is not going
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: to let it happen. That that's possible, and you really
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: just need to start and just do it, you know,
• 46:28
  Speaker 4: rather than you know, think about doing it or reading
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: books about doing it and and such. If you want
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: to make it in a filmmaking I would say, you know,
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: start with a two minute film and whatever you money
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: you have for if it's a ten dollars ten bucks
• 46:38
  Speaker 4: you've got laying around, make a ten dollars two minute film.
• 46:41
  Speaker 4: You got a hundred bucks and a hund dollar film.
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: But you know, I would just encourage folks too, if
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: they've always wanted to get into filmmaking, just do it.
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: And if you go to my website and go to
• 46:53
  Speaker 4: the contact page, I think that goes directly in my email.
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: If you are interested this kind of thing, you want
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: to kind of know more about how I've you know,
• 47:01
  Speaker 4: I've been making this kind of life work with the
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: filmmaking and everything else, you know, definitely email me and
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: I can help you out as much as I can.
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: But that's that's the big thing I want to get
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: across as well to your audience is that, you know,
• 47:15
  Speaker 4: try to encourage folks to to get into filmmaking that
• 47:18
  Speaker 4: maybe are not sure if they can or I have
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: the time to do it.
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I just don't ask you for mentorships, right, I
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: don't ask to to take you to meet somebody.
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it was probably it was probably overly, uh you
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: know whatever about that. But I I'm happy to impart
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: whatever advice I have. But yeah, I can't do a
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: full time mentorship at this point unfortunately. But uh, maybe
• 47:42
  Speaker 4: someday that'll be part of the mix, but right now
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: it's not.
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: Well, you know it's it's like I say, Dave, when
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: any anybody who listens to this podcast or what have
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: you asked to meet me for coffee or as to
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: meet me meet me for coffee or what have you
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: and or whatever, I always say this. I said, it's pointless. Uh,
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: if you should got me an email, it would it
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: would do you ten times the benefit the meeting me
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: for coffee, because we both have to drive out there,
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: get a fine parking, it's gonna be crowded, it's gonna
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: be loud, and would you know if you if you
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: send an email, it's you know, you can do it
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: from anywhere. You do it on your way to work
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: or whatever, and you get a lot more from it.
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: You know, maybe not in the short short run, but
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: over the long run, if you just keep going back
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: and forth, it's a lot it's worth a lot more.
• 48:28
  Speaker 4: Maybe even one email in general.
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: Is worth a lot more because you can actually just
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: detail things out and then you also have a written
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: transcription of most of what the meeting would have been.
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: I just have never or the second part is, you know,
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: just meet me at an at an event, you know,
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: if I'm ever at one of these events, the Blacklist Philly.
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: I might end up going to one of their events.
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure, though I haven't. I don't know. I'm
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: kind of networking event out, Dave. I don't know if
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: you are, but I'm just like, people invite me all
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: the time to these things, and I'm like, you know what,
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: I've done a ton of them when I when I
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: was just starting out, and I got burned out of
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: them real quick, and I haven't been back since. You know.
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: It's just I just sometimes feel it's a lot of
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: you know, I was one time part of a screenwriting
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: group and every meeting we had a new batch of
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: people come in, right, So it was always like bringing
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: people up to speed about what screenwriting is. And then
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: it'll be like February and then by the end of
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: the middle of summer they're like, yeah, we've had fifty
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: sixty seventy people come through here, but we have never
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: gotten passed, like teaching the basis of screenwriting.
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, I hear you, man, Syria.
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: So, Dave, where can we'ple find you out online?
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: I think the best place to start is that you know,
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: twenty citysthefilm dot Com. I've put most everything I'm on
• 49:43
  Speaker 4: working on. In terms of the film, I should say
• 49:47
  Speaker 4: most of everything from the film was on there. I
• 49:49
  Speaker 4: haven't done a worksite yet for the series I'm working on.
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: That's going to come at some point. Yeah, if you
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: want to go to the website for my second film,
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: twenty twenty one, and it's twenty twenty one in the
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: film dot.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: Com, we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: If you want to see that film. We actually got
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: distribution for that film and it's on Amazon Prime. You know,
• 50:18
  Speaker 4: they can see that for for free. If you have
• 50:20
  Speaker 4: Amazon Prime. Just go to twenty twenty one, put that
• 50:23
  Speaker 4: in search engine for Amazon and should take you to
• 50:25
  Speaker 4: the film. We got distribution for Twin Cities as well,
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: so that'll be on Amazon later this year, and hopefully
• 50:33
  Speaker 4: a few other paper places besides Amazon. Soulfully, that'll be
• 50:38
  Speaker 4: out there, you know by fall, I'm guessing. Yeah, beyond
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: that you have, Yeah, if you want to shoo an email,
• 50:45
  Speaker 4: it's David ash seven at gmail dot com. I'm happy
• 50:48
  Speaker 4: to to you know, tell you whatever wherever I know,
• 50:53
  Speaker 4: I'm happy to to send them along as well, so
• 50:57
  Speaker 4: that'll get started. But again if you go to Twin
• 50:59
  Speaker 4: Cities thefilm dot com. Probably most of my stuff is
• 51:01
  Speaker 4: on that page that website. It's a pretty pretty starch
• 51:06
  Speaker 4: side at this point.
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: Cool Dave, it's been so great avenue on man. Yea,
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: and yeah, I look forward to check out your stuff.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: Again, we have a very similar path. That's why I
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: wanted to have you on. And again, best of luck
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: to you, my friend, and I will talk to you
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: very soon.
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks so much for having me down. I really
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: really appreciate it, so thanks a lot.
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: a great job on this episode. If you want to
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: Forward slash for sixty. Thank you so much for listening
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: to guys. As always, keep on writing no matter what.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: I'll talk to you soon.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: Screenwriting dot tv.