Latest / Foul Territory / Blue Jays Checkup w/Mitch Bannon + Nationals talk w/Spencer Nusbaum

Transcript

Blue Jays Checkup w/Mitch Bannon + Nationals talk w/Spencer Nusbaum · Foul Territory

0:04
Speaker 1: It is Miller time.
0:05
Speaker 2: Let's get some light takes with Mitch Bannon from Bluebird Territory.
0:10
Speaker 2: Blue Jays show that you Gotta Love and it's him,
0:12
Speaker 2: and it's Kevin Plar and it's Ricky Romero multiple times
0:15
Speaker 2: per week. Mitch also, of course, covering this team for
0:18
Speaker 2: The Athletic on a daily basis. Mitch, good to see you.
0:21
Speaker 2: What's the deal up there? This team is so close
0:25
Speaker 2: to a World Series last year, riding all of the
0:28
Speaker 2: momentum and often visiting the infirmary lately.
0:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I found it really hard to talk about
0:37
Speaker 3: and write about this team in the last couple of
0:39
Speaker 3: days because it's like, how do you evaluate a team
0:41
Speaker 3: that has ten guys on the injured list. It's every
0:44
Speaker 3: story is like, oh, the starter went two innings and
0:47
Speaker 3: a new guy went on the injured list, but there's
0:49
Speaker 3: still one hundred and forty seven games left. Like it,
0:52
Speaker 3: it is very difficult to evaluate the current Blue Jays
0:55
Speaker 3: by no means. Has this team played well? By no means,
0:58
Speaker 3: have most of the starters except for Kevin Gosman and
1:01
Speaker 3: mostly Dylancy's pitched well. The bullpen's been lights out, So
1:04
Speaker 3: if you're looking for a bright spot. The bullpen didn't
1:06
Speaker 3: allow a single run over the weekend to the Twins.
1:09
Speaker 3: They still lost the series. It is pretty tough. It's
1:13
Speaker 3: treading water. It's trying to stay afloat. It's doing what
1:15
Speaker 3: they can to survive until they get Springer and Barger
1:19
Speaker 3: and eventually Kirk back. Maybe some of these starters who
1:22
Speaker 3: got hurt in spring come up in the next week
1:24
Speaker 3: or two and give the rotation some real innings, because
1:28
Speaker 3: every three or four days it's a guy going two innings.
1:31
Speaker 3: The bullpen gets tired, and then it not only gives
1:33
Speaker 3: them a loss that day, but kind of ruins their
1:35
Speaker 3: next three or four days. It is pretty tough times
1:38
Speaker 3: for the reigning American League champions.
1:42
Speaker 4: What are they gonna do?
1:44
Speaker 5: I just I don't know.
1:45
Speaker 4: We were talking like you can't are The old saying
1:47
Speaker 4: is you can't win the Pennant in April, but you
1:49
Speaker 4: can lose it. Is there a chance they could fall
1:52
Speaker 4: so far behind? And I know they struggled last year
1:54
Speaker 4: early and then they took off and caught fire, But
1:57
Speaker 4: do they have enough depth in this organization? Like you said,
2:00
Speaker 4: tread water, No one's playing great in the Al East
2:03
Speaker 4: right now, But you know, are they gonna Is there
2:06
Speaker 4: a chance they could get too far?
2:07
Speaker 1: Mind?
2:07
Speaker 4: Because Max Suers are right. I did Max Suers his
2:10
Speaker 4: game on Monday. He came out of the game with
2:11
Speaker 4: foearm tendonitis and then he said, oh, I'll be fine
2:14
Speaker 4: on Sunday to pitch, and he goes out and has
2:15
Speaker 4: a clunker. So if they lose Max, then who's next? Right,
2:19
Speaker 4: how much depth do the Blue Jays have in order
2:21
Speaker 4: to just keep them afloat.
2:24
Speaker 3: They've kind of already called on that depth. Like the
2:26
Speaker 3: guys we see now were the sixth through eight starters.
2:29
Speaker 6: We thought we would see it in like June and July.
2:32
Speaker 3: So they've made They've pulled Patrick Corbyn off the street
2:35
Speaker 3: or off his his house in Florida to come pitch
2:38
Speaker 3: a game for them. He's gonna be in the rotation
2:40
Speaker 3: for the worst seeable future. They've made Waiver claims. They
2:43
Speaker 3: just made a trade for Lennin Sosa, bench and fielder. Like,
2:46
Speaker 3: they're kind of doing everything they can to stay afloat.
2:50
Speaker 3: I do think there's like a chance this team does
2:52
Speaker 3: fall out of it. The one benefit you mentioned the
2:54
Speaker 3: American League is like particularly muddy right now, Like the Twins,
2:58
Speaker 3: I believe have the best record in the American League,
3:00
Speaker 3: and I don't think anyone thinks the Twins are gonna
3:02
Speaker 3: end there at the end of the year.
3:03
Speaker 6: It's still really early.
3:05
Speaker 3: I think if they hover around five hundred even to
3:07
Speaker 3: the All Star break, like, if this is a team
3:10
Speaker 3: that's a game below five hundred at the All Star break,
3:12
Speaker 3: I think they got to take it right now. They
3:14
Speaker 3: have like ten or eleven straight series against legit contenders
3:17
Speaker 3: in late May and June. It's gonna be a tough stretch.
3:20
Speaker 3: I'm not sure there is much they can do. They
3:23
Speaker 3: can keep trying out the Tyler Fitzgerald's and Lenin Soss
3:26
Speaker 3: of the world to see if they can get like
3:28
Speaker 3: a decent breakout or a guy who plays well for
3:30
Speaker 3: a month. They can keep cycling through these seventh, eighth,
3:34
Speaker 3: ninth starters and see if someone can stick for a
3:36
Speaker 3: couple of weeks. But really it's waiting for Treya Savage
3:39
Speaker 3: to get back and hoping he can be a dude again,
3:42
Speaker 3: waiting for Jose Burrios to get back, and hoping his
3:44
Speaker 3: fracture in his elbow doesn't turn into anything, which certainly
3:48
Speaker 3: doesn't sound good, But he's pitching through it. So it
3:51
Speaker 3: is kind of a wait and see and hope you
3:53
Speaker 3: survive in the meantime. But if a couple other guys
3:56
Speaker 3: get hurt, if the pitching just doesn't figure itself out,
3:59
Speaker 3: or Trey Savage's shoulder starts barking again, this Jase team
4:03
Speaker 3: could be in a bad spot.
4:05
Speaker 5: Wait a minute. Last year, at this time, we weren't
4:07
Speaker 5: even talking about Ernie Clement not in the starting lineup,
4:10
Speaker 5: to Nathan Lucas not in the starting line I think
4:13
Speaker 5: Nathan Lucas wasn't he in Triple A or maybe I
4:16
Speaker 5: got that wrong. But yeah, so people will step up.
4:19
Speaker 5: That's how good teams win. But from this point in
4:24
Speaker 5: the season, is it, Hey, sus Sanchez, that you go, okay,
4:28
Speaker 5: this is the bright spot that we think we can
4:31
Speaker 5: we can continue to go on. Hey, you know what,
4:33
Speaker 5: Vladdie's hitting I think three twenty or something like that, Like, hey,
4:36
Speaker 5: Vladdie's gonna be able to carry this team when those
4:40
Speaker 5: things happen, because you say, oh, we get Addison Barger back.
4:42
Speaker 5: Addison Barger's hitting fifty three. If somebody else steps up,
4:47
Speaker 5: Addison Barger is not going to have his job back.
4:48
Speaker 5: Because this team needs to win and wants to win
4:51
Speaker 5: and is built to win. So it's really whoever steps up,
4:54
Speaker 5: But who is the guy right now that you're like, okay,
4:57
Speaker 5: because he's doing this, this this is a right spot
5:00
Speaker 5: for us.
5:03
Speaker 3: I think the problem is there's like not a lot
5:05
Speaker 3: of those stories right now. That's how you have like
5:08
Speaker 3: a team that is injured and also three games under
5:11
Speaker 3: five hundred and fifteen games another season. Like if there
5:13
Speaker 3: was guys stepping up or showing promise, I think the
5:15
Speaker 3: Jays would be in a better spot, but they're kind
5:17
Speaker 3: of still searching for those. Eloy Jimenez came up on Sunday,
5:22
Speaker 3: gave them two hits, two for four. They were really
5:24
Speaker 3: two singles, but and not particularly hard hit. Maybe he's
5:27
Speaker 3: a guy, but it's not like they're going to be
5:29
Speaker 3: put in Eloy and left field every day when George
5:31
Speaker 3: Springer comes back. I don't think that's going to be
5:33
Speaker 3: what the defensive mind did Jays want to do? You
5:36
Speaker 3: mentioned Hejezu Sanchez. He's actually looked pretty good and has
5:39
Speaker 3: been hitting a cleanup for this team a decent amount.
5:41
Speaker 3: I'm not even sure he's like a Maybe this guy's
5:44
Speaker 3: a good story.
5:45
Speaker 6: He seems to be a guy.
5:46
Speaker 3: The Jays need to be good like he's kind of
5:48
Speaker 3: graduated out of that. Maybe he can be good status
5:50
Speaker 3: and he's like he's one of the three or four
5:52
Speaker 3: guys they can currently rely on. I think the Jays
5:54
Speaker 3: are going to keep searching for it. They have some
5:56
Speaker 3: guys in the upper biners that could come up here
5:58
Speaker 3: if this continues for a cup weeks. They have a
6:01
Speaker 3: few young arms like a CJ. Van Ike and a
6:04
Speaker 3: Grant Rogers and Triple A that if if Max decides
6:07
Speaker 3: he needs to go on the injured list with this tendonitis,
6:09
Speaker 3: They're going to give those guys a shot. None of
6:11
Speaker 3: them are particularly highly ranked prospects, and I don't think
6:14
Speaker 3: New York is like clamoring to get them in the
6:16
Speaker 3: big leagues, but they're they're in the We got to
6:18
Speaker 3: give guys a shot and see who sticks mode.
6:20
Speaker 6: Right now, one of.
6:22
Speaker 4: These guys back, one of these Do we have an
6:25
Speaker 4: update on most of these guys? Is there?
6:26
Speaker 5: Can you give us a time for most of the
6:28
Speaker 5: Jays guys?
6:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, So Trey is Savage is going to start in
6:33
Speaker 3: a minor league game somewhere in the continent of North
6:35
Speaker 3: America to be determined. Maybe it's Florida, maybe it's Buffalo,
6:39
Speaker 3: maybe it's Vancouver, but I would find that unlikely on
6:42
Speaker 3: Tuesday or Wednesday, and then after that, if he gets
6:45
Speaker 3: up to seventy pitches, he has the command and looks
6:47
Speaker 3: good and kind of checks all the health boxes with
6:49
Speaker 3: his shoulder, I'd expect his next start is in the
6:51
Speaker 3: Big League, so that could come in the next eight
6:54
Speaker 3: or nine days. Jose Burrios is a bit behind him,
6:58
Speaker 3: so I think we're looking at maybe some time in
7:00
Speaker 3: the next three weeks he's back. George Springer and Addison Barger.
7:03
Speaker 3: Barger with the ankles, Springer with the fractured toe, they
7:07
Speaker 3: could be minimal ten day al stints, so at some
7:10
Speaker 3: point in April those guys could be back. But George,
7:13
Speaker 3: I think with the toe, it's kind of he can
7:15
Speaker 3: play after ten days, but the expectation that he'll be
7:18
Speaker 3: normal is like he's going to be hampered by that
7:21
Speaker 3: toe for a couple of weeks, and it's not like
7:22
Speaker 3: he was particularly raking before he went on the injured list.
7:26
Speaker 3: You mentioned Barger wasn't really hitting before he went on
7:28
Speaker 3: the aisle two, so they do have some near term
7:31
Speaker 3: guys like the Cody Ponts he's done for the regular season.
7:34
Speaker 3: Alejandro Kirk he's out for well over a month. Like
7:37
Speaker 3: those guys aren't on the near term, but the pitching
7:40
Speaker 3: and then George and Addison are the four guys they
7:43
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8:47
Speaker 5: Before I get to my Trady Savage question, what about Bieber?
8:50
Speaker 5: You missed? Bieber? I know you had a lot and
8:52
Speaker 5: you had to take a breath, so you had to.
8:54
Speaker 5: I'll let you take your breath and shame, shame, Bieber.
8:56
Speaker 5: Where's that hope of return coming at?
9:01
Speaker 6: Yeah?
9:01
Speaker 3: So they he is kind of an odd one as
9:04
Speaker 3: much as like there are some odd injuries across this
9:06
Speaker 3: entire pitching staff with fractured elbows and her shoulders and
9:09
Speaker 3: stuff like that. But Bieber, he was forearm fatigue after
9:13
Speaker 3: the World Series last year. Into spring training, the Jays
9:15
Speaker 3: are like, we're just going to slow play this guy.
9:17
Speaker 3: He didn't get off a mound until after spring training
9:20
Speaker 3: and has been throwing fairly infrequently since then. Sounds like
9:25
Speaker 3: he is at live bullpens, are about to throw live bullpens.
9:28
Speaker 3: So I think we're looking at like a traditional spring
9:31
Speaker 3: training ramp up for him. So probably somewhere between four
9:34
Speaker 3: and six weeks. I'd be shocked if we see him
9:37
Speaker 3: before June at this point, and the Jay's rotation could
9:40
Speaker 3: look entirely different by then. I don't think he's going
9:42
Speaker 3: to be the guy that comes in and saves the
9:43
Speaker 3: current status of the rotation. Maybe more of an All
9:46
Speaker 3: Star break or just before that return for him.
9:49
Speaker 5: All right, well, you said Trey Savage. Oh you hope
9:51
Speaker 5: he returns to be the beast that he is. Let's
9:55
Speaker 5: be honest, This Blue Jays team did not make it
9:57
Speaker 5: to the playoffs because of Trey's savage. He had to
9:59
Speaker 5: read ridiculous playoffs and that's where they want him again
10:04
Speaker 5: when he comes back, and with the injuries, even saying
10:07
Speaker 5: if Max stays off the eel, here are they prepared
10:11
Speaker 5: or even able to have him in the rotation where
10:14
Speaker 5: it's not a guaranteed six man rotation like I felt
10:18
Speaker 5: like going into the season, that's what they wanted because
10:20
Speaker 5: of his lack of innings last year, and then all
10:23
Speaker 5: of a sudden, he's pitching for an extra month. So
10:26
Speaker 5: even when he's healthy when he comes back, what are
10:29
Speaker 5: they expecting his workload's going to be?
10:33
Speaker 3: I think it's gonna be something like what he did
10:35
Speaker 3: in the Miners last year, which was a lot of
10:38
Speaker 3: four or five innings starts. I think if they have
10:41
Speaker 3: the rotation depth by that point, Eric Lauer could slide
10:44
Speaker 3: into more of a piggyback behind him. That was kind
10:47
Speaker 3: of the plan if you Savage broke camp with the Jays,
10:50
Speaker 3: and I think that'd be a way to kind of
10:52
Speaker 3: mitigate his innings. I do think as much as you
10:54
Speaker 3: can put a positive spin on a cranky shoulder in
10:57
Speaker 3: a missed first month, the one beauty of tre not
11:00
Speaker 3: pitching this month is that Jays might not have to
11:02
Speaker 3: hold him back in terms of innings as much if
11:04
Speaker 3: he had been ready to go for thirty two starts.
11:08
Speaker 3: Like this team was not going to let this guy
11:10
Speaker 3: get anywhere near one hundred and eighty one hundred ninety
11:13
Speaker 3: innings with a missed month, maybe they can kind of
11:15
Speaker 3: let him go five innings, six innings and situations they
11:18
Speaker 3: weren't otherwise going to be able to, assuming he can,
11:21
Speaker 3: assuming he's healthy and effective. I think they're just at
11:24
Speaker 3: the point where they got to take whatever innings they
11:27
Speaker 3: can and figure out resting you Savage in July August September.
11:32
Speaker 3: If they're in a position where they're able to do that.
11:35
Speaker 4: Where's the home runs? Where's the home runs for this team?
11:38
Speaker 4: I know they're a contact team, but they did hit
11:41
Speaker 4: home runs LUs year. Where are all the home runs?
11:42
Speaker 4: And the home run jacket obviously is on vacation. I
11:45
Speaker 4: know they tried to wake it up, but where are
11:47
Speaker 4: the home runs?
11:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, they woke it up for a day. They put
11:50
Speaker 3: that note on the on the jacket and then hit
11:52
Speaker 3: two home runs. They got to bring the note back.
11:53
Speaker 3: I don't know why anyone decided that they could take
11:55
Speaker 3: that away after one game. I think this is what
11:59
Speaker 3: happens when George Bringer is hurt and not particularly playing well,
12:02
Speaker 3: when Addison Barger is not playing well and then gets hurt.
12:05
Speaker 3: Like those are two of the guys aside from Vladdie,
12:07
Speaker 3: who are supposed to bring the power in this lineup.
12:09
Speaker 3: And another guy, Cosmo O Kamoto, Like this guy was
12:13
Speaker 3: hyped up as kind of an all round hitter, but
12:15
Speaker 3: you watch his highlights in Japan and it's like light
12:17
Speaker 3: tower pole power, and we have not seen that once
12:20
Speaker 3: since joining the Jays, he's had an opposite.
12:22
Speaker 6: Field home run.
12:23
Speaker 3: He's been kind of more of a contact guy, and
12:26
Speaker 3: lately the contact has not even been good contact. It
12:28
Speaker 3: seems like he's kind of just trying to make contact
12:30
Speaker 3: for the sake of it, which is turning into a
12:32
Speaker 3: lot of rollovers and easy ground balls. I think the
12:35
Speaker 3: Jays didn't expect Okamoto to be the Bobashett replacement, but
12:39
Speaker 3: they thought he could be part of the solution. And
12:42
Speaker 3: right now the league has made an adjustment to him.
12:44
Speaker 3: They're overpowering him with high fastballs, showing him spin away
12:48
Speaker 3: and o Komoto just looks over mash Right now, he's
12:50
Speaker 3: striking out like thirty five forty percent of the time.
12:53
Speaker 3: They need that guy to at least bring a little
12:55
Speaker 3: bit of power to this lineup, all.
12:57
Speaker 5: Right, Since Alejandra kurt is going to be out for
12:59
Speaker 5: a while and when he does come back, a thumb
13:02
Speaker 5: injury is it's not not real real good for guys
13:05
Speaker 5: who want to get underneath the ball to try to
13:08
Speaker 5: receive it. Tyler Hyneman and Venezuela and Venezuela, what are there?
13:13
Speaker 5: What is their split gonna look like? We know Heineman's
13:16
Speaker 5: I think he's hitting like three point fifty, so he's
13:18
Speaker 5: going to be the next alle Jandra Kirk. But what
13:21
Speaker 5: is their split going to be, and is that going
13:24
Speaker 5: to be something that they might look outside the organization
13:28
Speaker 5: until Kirk comes back.
13:31
Speaker 6: If they have another catching injury, they might call you, Eric.
13:33
Speaker 3: Well, we'll see what happens, because there's not a whole
13:36
Speaker 3: lot of guys after that. But I think Valenzuela is
13:40
Speaker 3: going to get the run here more than Heineman. The
13:42
Speaker 3: Jays really like Hineman, but they like him as a
13:45
Speaker 3: backup catcher. They like him playing sporadically. They like him
13:48
Speaker 3: at most playing kind of two out of every five days,
13:50
Speaker 3: and they think Valenzuela has the upside here. We've seen
13:53
Speaker 3: him hit a ball one hundred and eleven miles an hour,
13:55
Speaker 3: which is the hardest hit ball of his pro career
13:57
Speaker 3: for a home run. We've seen him be pretty good
14:00
Speaker 3: behind the plate, like it's interesting. He has all the tools,
14:03
Speaker 3: like his pop time is great, seems like a decent receiver,
14:06
Speaker 3: but he kind of fumbles the ball every so often.
14:09
Speaker 3: It's just clearly he's a young guy who's not entirely
14:11
Speaker 3: refined at the big league level. But I think they're
14:14
Speaker 3: viewing they need upside right now, Like the offense is
14:16
Speaker 3: not hitting and so and not hitting home runs, so
14:19
Speaker 3: they're going to take the upside swing on Balanzuela. Hyneman
14:21
Speaker 3: also is dealing with back spasms, which is the reason
14:24
Speaker 3: that Brandon played three games in a row over the weekend.
14:26
Speaker 3: So maybe you weld get a better idea of what
14:28
Speaker 3: this split looks like coming out of the off day.
14:30
Speaker 6: In this next week or ten days, but.
14:32
Speaker 3: I'd expect it to be close to an even split
14:34
Speaker 3: with If anyone's getting more, it's probably the kid.
14:39
Speaker 5: I thought Hyaeman was a pitcher.
14:43
Speaker 3: He's pitching too much for a team that helps to
14:45
Speaker 3: content so far. He there was some guys in the
14:47
Speaker 3: in the bullpen the first couple of days of the
14:49
Speaker 3: season that had higher eras than Tyler Hyneman, which is
14:52
Speaker 3: not an ideal place to be for the Toronto Blue Jays.
14:56
Speaker 5: Yeah, that'll be fine.
14:57
Speaker 4: The bullpen's been good, surprisingly, I mean that was kind
15:00
Speaker 4: of the question coming in the season.
15:01
Speaker 5: The bullpen. The bullpen.
15:03
Speaker 4: Bullpen's been really good for him. It's been the starters
15:05
Speaker 4: that have had the troubles.
15:07
Speaker 6: Yeah.
15:07
Speaker 3: I think the one problem is the Jay's last year
15:10
Speaker 3: ran into in September, where like Hoffman, had more innings
15:13
Speaker 3: pitch than any other reliever. Brendan Little was second and
15:16
Speaker 3: Louis Arland was like fourth, and you could tell those
15:19
Speaker 3: guys got tired by the end of the year. I
15:20
Speaker 3: think they came into this year hoping to avoid that,
15:23
Speaker 3: and now they're in a situation where every game, every
15:26
Speaker 3: other game has been turned into a bullpen game. So
15:29
Speaker 3: that's another key thing. Not only do you need the
15:31
Speaker 3: starters to come back to try to win games, you
15:33
Speaker 3: need some innings to come back so you can rest
15:35
Speaker 3: your bullpen. And if you want to be playing deep
15:36
Speaker 3: in October, have Jeff Hoffman throw at ninety eight still
15:40
Speaker 3: and Louis Arland be able to pitch every single game
15:42
Speaker 3: of the postseason. You've got to set yourself up for success.
15:47
Speaker 2: Mitch question from a fan. A frequent flyer in the chat,
15:51
Speaker 2: Sicilian said, it's been two months since Tender's shoulder surgery.
15:55
Speaker 2: Can you ask Mitch how the recovery is going. I
15:57
Speaker 2: know there's still a few months to go, but just
15:59
Speaker 2: curious An's there.
16:02
Speaker 3: I don't have much I'll be honest, I think this
16:05
Speaker 3: is we're not going to see this guy until well
16:07
Speaker 3: after the middle of July. I don't think he's worth
16:10
Speaker 3: kind of putting on your radar at this point. I
16:13
Speaker 3: think there's a better chance Tony doesn't play a game
16:16
Speaker 3: for the Blue Jays this year, then plays more than
16:18
Speaker 3: like twenty five or thirty games. The Jays are just
16:21
Speaker 3: gonna kind of have him sit this one out rehab.
16:25
Speaker 3: If he comes back at the end of the year
16:26
Speaker 3: and provides three or four home runs, great, If not,
16:29
Speaker 3: let's try to get this contract off on what the
16:32
Speaker 3: third foot starting next year. I just don't think he's
16:35
Speaker 3: a guy that you should be worrying about on April thirteenth,
16:38
Speaker 3: that's for sure.
16:39
Speaker 2: Real quick to follow. I'm just sloking because I remember,
16:42
Speaker 2: I mean, he was a durable player. It was the
16:44
Speaker 2: three years leading up to him hitting free agency and
16:48
Speaker 2: signing with the Blue Jays his games played one fifty three,
16:53
Speaker 2: one fifty five, one of the most durable players in
16:57
Speaker 2: that three year span. That's about as good as it
16:59
Speaker 2: gets today's game. You mix it an off day here
17:01
Speaker 2: and there, that's wild. So it's just been a terrible
17:05
Speaker 2: shoulder situation that has plagued him, and now you barely
17:08
Speaker 2: can count on him getting back on the field.
17:10
Speaker 6: Huh yeah, exactly.
17:12
Speaker 3: So he fell into the stands in Anaheim would have
17:14
Speaker 3: been around I guess a month later than this last year.
17:17
Speaker 3: Then kind of tried to play through it for a month.
17:20
Speaker 3: I think it was a classic case of new guy
17:22
Speaker 3: off to a slow start, wants to prove something to
17:24
Speaker 3: his new team, tried to kind of bite the bullet
17:26
Speaker 3: and play through an injury that only made his shoulder
17:29
Speaker 3: injury worse. Tries to come back late last year, still
17:32
Speaker 3: didn't really have it in the playoffs, and then doesn't
17:36
Speaker 3: get the surgery, which is I'm sure he regrets at
17:38
Speaker 3: this point ramping up in spring, then gets the surgery.
17:41
Speaker 3: It's just been it's been a tough start to his
17:44
Speaker 3: Blue Jay's tenure. Not really a whole lot of good
17:46
Speaker 3: news for Anthony Santon there, but still got a couple
17:48
Speaker 3: of years left, so maybe maybe this could be a
17:50
Speaker 3: redemption story starting in late twenty twenty six or twenty
17:53
Speaker 3: twenty seven.
17:55
Speaker 1: That is true.
17:56
Speaker 2: It is a longer term deal, so there's time after
17:59
Speaker 2: this year. Thank you, appreciate you talk Seene.
18:03
Speaker 6: Sounds good. See you, guys.
18:05
Speaker 2: Mitch Fannin along with Ricky Rameira and Kevin Polar on
18:07
Speaker 2: Bluebird Territory if you.
18:09
Speaker 1: Haven't checked it out, you should. There's Mitch, There's KP,
18:12
Speaker 1: and there's Ricky.
18:13
Speaker 2: Wherever you get your podcasts also thanks to Mitch and
18:16
Speaker 2: the crew. They are sponsored by Miller Lte. Why not
18:19
Speaker 2: go grabs Miller Lte today because game time is millerd
18:22
Speaker 2: time must be legal drinking age, celebrate responsibly.
18:28
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Speaker 2: box by May thirty first, twenty twenty six. Let's announce
19:29
Speaker 2: the newest show part of the FT network that just launched.
19:36
Speaker 2: This makes sense, very pretty logo. You like that district
19:39
Speaker 2: territory coming in hot Spencer Nussbaum, who covers the Washington
19:43
Speaker 2: Nationals every day for the Athletic. He's paired with Eric
19:47
Speaker 2: Shellhouse from The Bat Boys the Viral Stars Online. Spencer,
19:51
Speaker 2: great to have you on. Congratulations, welcome to the FT fam.
19:55
Speaker 2: That's one of the last teams here that we had
19:57
Speaker 2: not had covered on an everyday basis from a podcast and.
20:00
Speaker 1: Digital show perspective, so we're thrilled to have you.
20:03
Speaker 2: What do you think of the logo for the show
20:05
Speaker 2: and what do you think of the team so far?
20:07
Speaker 1: Ten percent into the season.
20:10
Speaker 8: I mean the logos a ten out of ten. Frankly,
20:12
Speaker 8: I'm glad that they didn't have me design it because
20:14
Speaker 8: I never could have done something like that, so we're
20:16
Speaker 8: off to a great start there. As for the team, frankly,
20:20
Speaker 8: it's it's been a bit of a surprise. I think
20:23
Speaker 8: going into the season, we knew that there were going
20:25
Speaker 8: to be rough patches. We knew that right out of
20:27
Speaker 8: the gate. It was Dodgers, it was Cubs, it was Brewers,
20:31
Speaker 8: and they've landed on their feet with a seven and
20:33
Speaker 8: eight record. I'm sure we'll get into this in a
20:35
Speaker 8: little bit, but the offense has just been incredible and
20:38
Speaker 8: the pitching, frankly, has not shown up yet, so really
20:43
Speaker 8: interesting mix a lot of long games because of it.
20:46
Speaker 8: But no, they've been fascinating and it's been really fun
20:49
Speaker 8: to watch kind of the new front office and the
20:52
Speaker 8: new coaching staff really kind of get a grip here
20:54
Speaker 8: and figure things out.
20:56
Speaker 4: How's that going. How's the but Terror Toboni combo going
21:03
Speaker 4: so far? I mean, they're obviously playing well, right, but
21:05
Speaker 4: how is it going for them on a day to
21:07
Speaker 4: day basis in kind of new positions for both of them?
21:10
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, frankly, it's been exceptional so far. There
21:13
Speaker 8: will always be kind of rough patches when you start,
21:17
Speaker 8: but when you think about where the Nationals were a
21:20
Speaker 8: year ago at this time and where they are now.
21:23
Speaker 8: They have a new infrastructure that again is prioritizing not
21:27
Speaker 8: just analytics, but simplifying those analytics, and they have a
21:30
Speaker 8: manager who you know, speaks that language but can also
21:34
Speaker 8: you know, relate to a very young team. You have
21:36
Speaker 8: a president based operations who has done the player development
21:40
Speaker 8: side and seems to have also done pretty well on
21:43
Speaker 8: the big league side so far. You have a lot
21:46
Speaker 8: of guys who have bought in to this new message
21:48
Speaker 8: just because the way things were before it just wasn't
21:51
Speaker 8: working out for the team. There's still more to do
21:55
Speaker 8: in the sense that there are a lot of processes
21:57
Speaker 8: still to set up. There are a lot of things
21:59
Speaker 8: still to implement. But you know, they're changing the lineup
22:03
Speaker 8: every day, and they're adding in new technology, and you know,
22:08
Speaker 8: they brought in an entirely new staff. I covered earlier
22:10
Speaker 8: today the hitters meetings look totally different from last year,
22:14
Speaker 8: and they're crushing the ball. So it's been a really
22:17
Speaker 8: good starting Washington. I think where you'll see them tested
22:20
Speaker 8: is when maybe there's a swoon in May or June,
22:24
Speaker 8: or they're ten games under five hundred. It's really how
22:27
Speaker 8: they respond, then that's that's going to catch my attention.
22:31
Speaker 5: Is it more encouraging the fact that c. J. Abrams
22:34
Speaker 5: and James Wood are the top two hitters on the
22:37
Speaker 5: team And there was fear that, Okay, they're already the
22:41
Speaker 5: top two hitters no matter who you brought in this year,
22:43
Speaker 5: who you didn't bring in, but that a new staff
22:46
Speaker 5: would maybe not necessarily connect with them. And so isn't
22:51
Speaker 5: that the most encouraging part of this that those two
22:53
Speaker 5: guys are just picking up where they left off, even
22:56
Speaker 5: to the point where I think they're both doing better.
22:59
Speaker 5: And so it means this new staff is helping them absolutely.
23:03
Speaker 8: And I think when you think about those two in particular,
23:05
Speaker 8: those are two guys where you don't want to mess
23:07
Speaker 8: with their swings too much, especially when you look at
23:10
Speaker 8: their first halfs last year. And so the job of
23:13
Speaker 8: the staff was, hey, how can we make these minor
23:15
Speaker 8: adjustments to make these guys really kind of implement that
23:19
Speaker 8: and take off throughout the course of an entire season. Again,
23:23
Speaker 8: I was someone who was a bit skeptical that the
23:27
Speaker 8: hitting development would come along so quickly, just because usually
23:30
Speaker 8: you see development happened quicker on the pitching side than
23:34
Speaker 8: the hitting side. But I think the fact of the
23:36
Speaker 8: matter is, look, these were two guys who were uber talented,
23:39
Speaker 8: who just need to be able to make adjustments throughout
23:43
Speaker 8: the course of an entire season, and you've seen them
23:46
Speaker 8: do that so far. Cg Abrams is walking more, James
23:50
Speaker 8: Wood is making more contact on pitches in the zone.
23:53
Speaker 8: They're both going up with really smart approaches. And when
23:57
Speaker 8: you think about what the next great Nationals team could
24:00
Speaker 8: be with James Wood in particular, and then potentially cj Abams,
24:03
Speaker 8: really with James Wood, he's someone who you want to
24:06
Speaker 8: be kind of the face of the franchise, and so
24:09
Speaker 8: if you're lifting up the floor of the roster, that's
24:13
Speaker 8: obviously excellent for the long term. But in terms of
24:17
Speaker 8: who could potentially bring this team into October, it's the
24:21
Speaker 8: James Woods and the cg Abrams of the world, and
24:23
Speaker 8: so it's really encouraging to see what they've done so far.
24:27
Speaker 4: Spencer, you mentioned the hitting the hitters meetings are different. Now,
24:30
Speaker 4: can you explain that what they've changed?
24:33
Speaker 5: Absolutely? So.
24:35
Speaker 8: I talked to a handful of players for this story,
24:39
Speaker 8: and what they had mentioned was, look like in the past,
24:41
Speaker 8: there were good meetings and there were bad meetings. They
24:44
Speaker 8: didn't want to like besmirch the old staff or the
24:47
Speaker 8: old way or anything like that, but what they said is, look,
24:49
Speaker 8: there were times where there just wasn't intent in those meetings,
24:52
Speaker 8: or it's just you know, we were kind of going
24:55
Speaker 8: through the motions, is what one of the players told me.
24:58
Speaker 8: What's different now is a they're kind of changing more
25:03
Speaker 8: on a game to game basis, where I think in
25:04
Speaker 8: the past occasionally there would be the same repetitive message
25:08
Speaker 8: in terms of where you want to get the ball
25:10
Speaker 8: or what you want to do at the plate, and
25:12
Speaker 8: you just kind of hear it day after day, whereas
25:14
Speaker 8: here it's hey, we're going to change based on the picture.
25:17
Speaker 8: We are going to have you do your homework every
25:20
Speaker 8: single day before you get to the park, where there's
25:22
Speaker 8: a sheet left at their locker and they fill out
25:24
Speaker 8: the zones that they want to attack on that given day.
25:28
Speaker 8: There are more metrics, but it's not so much so
25:32
Speaker 8: that it's overwhelming or anything like that. It's more in
25:35
Speaker 8: the sense of, hey, pluck out what you need and
25:37
Speaker 8: we'll work with you from there. So I think that
25:41
Speaker 8: hitters have really enjoyed that kind of planning and preparation,
25:44
Speaker 8: whereas in the past, again I was told it was
25:47
Speaker 8: maybe a bit repetitive at times. And while there again
25:50
Speaker 8: there were great meetings before and there were days where
25:52
Speaker 8: the offense really showed up, it wasn't necessarily changing on
25:56
Speaker 8: a game to game basis like this. And so they've
25:58
Speaker 8: really liked the three new hitting coaches. They've liked what
26:01
Speaker 8: the front office has been able to do in terms
26:03
Speaker 8: of providing them the metrics and the support that they need.
26:08
Speaker 8: And obviously you're seeing it show up. I think the
26:10
Speaker 8: only team that's scored more runs per game is the Dodgers,
26:13
Speaker 8: So clearly something is working all.
26:15
Speaker 4: Right, Before we get to the pitching, didn't you say
26:17
Speaker 4: they have to do homework. They have to do homework,
26:19
Speaker 4: they have to circle where they want to swing at.
26:21
Speaker 4: I just circle the middle every time I want to
26:23
Speaker 4: swing at this one, right, Yeah, I mean, didn't that
26:26
Speaker 4: be the key. I'm just gonna try and swing at
26:28
Speaker 4: the one right down the middle every time.
26:30
Speaker 5: So yeah, I.
26:31
Speaker 8: Think I'm not gonna argue with a former big leaguer
26:34
Speaker 8: on something like this. What I will say is that
26:38
Speaker 8: their approach has been, like take Brady House for example,
26:42
Speaker 8: He's someone where the coaching staff last year said, look, dude,
26:45
Speaker 8: you need to pick one side of the plate. He's
26:49
Speaker 8: someone who's coming to this year and again that homework's
26:51
Speaker 8: been really helpful because he knows, Hey, against this pitcher,
26:54
Speaker 8: I know like I can take pitches the other way.
26:56
Speaker 8: I have a lot of opposite field power. He's going
26:58
Speaker 8: to throw the ball a lot there. I can do
27:00
Speaker 8: damage there. Again, I think you weren't necessarily filling out
27:04
Speaker 8: one zone, so I'd be surprised if any guy doesn't
27:06
Speaker 8: have the middle of the zone circled.
27:08
Speaker 6: But it really is.
27:09
Speaker 8: About picking where you swing and being intentional about that
27:11
Speaker 8: instead of saying, hey, I can cover the whole strike zone,
27:14
Speaker 8: because a lot of times even the best players in
27:17
Speaker 8: baseball can't do that. So yeah, I'm sure a lot
27:19
Speaker 8: of them have circled the middle, but it is about
27:21
Speaker 8: kind of expanding that a little bit, and again, based
27:23
Speaker 8: on the pitcher they're seeing that day.
27:26
Speaker 4: All right, Well, we talked about the good part the offense.
27:30
Speaker 4: Do we need to bring up the pitching because it
27:32
Speaker 4: has not been very good so far. They're twenty ninth
27:36
Speaker 4: and pitching it's been not good. Yeah, there's great, but
27:39
Speaker 4: they're scoring a lot of runs, but that's not usually
27:41
Speaker 4: sustainable for a whole season. You at some point you
27:43
Speaker 4: have to get somebody out consistently.
27:46
Speaker 8: Yeah, And I think it really speaks to kind of
27:48
Speaker 8: what was here before and how much money then that's
27:51
Speaker 8: spent in the offseason. The big approach in the minor
27:55
Speaker 8: leagues for them right now again is to add guys
27:58
Speaker 8: with stuff. It's because the players that they have in
28:01
Speaker 8: the big league gross right now, while talented and while
28:04
Speaker 8: able to adjust, don't necessarily have the fallback of throwing
28:08
Speaker 8: one oh one or throwing you know, ninety three with
28:12
Speaker 8: a ton of break. It's a lot of guys who
28:14
Speaker 8: can kind of navigate their way around a big league
28:16
Speaker 8: lineup and have some track record of doing so, but
28:20
Speaker 8: it's not necessarily the same fallback option that you see
28:23
Speaker 8: littered up and down these rosters. So they've gotten themselves
28:27
Speaker 8: in trouble with the walks, and I think that's something
28:28
Speaker 8: I'm paying attention to. But really so much of it is, hey,
28:32
Speaker 8: like we're just not able to miss bats, We're not
28:34
Speaker 8: able to get guys to chase outside the zone. That's
28:38
Speaker 8: you know, in the stretting rotation and the bullpen. There
28:41
Speaker 8: are some bright spots, but it really has been tough
28:44
Speaker 8: for them to just kind of get those out pitches
28:46
Speaker 8: and be able to kind of work through a lineup
28:50
Speaker 8: three times. And again, I think that's why they're spending
28:53
Speaker 8: so much time in the minor leagues focusing on strength
28:56
Speaker 8: training and velocity training and you know, to drive line.
29:01
Speaker 8: It is maybe an oversimplification, but that's kind of the
29:04
Speaker 8: state of what they're trying to do right now. So yeah,
29:08
Speaker 8: it hasn't been pretty so far, and I don't necessarily
29:12
Speaker 8: know when that will turn around, but it's a lot
29:15
Speaker 8: of guys who, again need to spend maybe more time,
29:21
Speaker 8: I don't know, figuring out how to add stuff specifically
29:25
Speaker 8: at the minor league level.
29:27
Speaker 5: So what you're saying, Spencer's they should just throw harder.
29:31
Speaker 8: Right Again, that's maybe the oversimplation of how I want
29:36
Speaker 8: to put it, but I mean there really is some
29:39
Speaker 8: truth to that. And look, they're working with a new
29:41
Speaker 8: set of pitching coaches, so they're all trying to figure
29:44
Speaker 8: out what's going to work best for them, and I
29:47
Speaker 8: think that's a learning adjustment as well. I've heard nothing
29:50
Speaker 8: but good things about the pitching coaches, but again, it's
29:53
Speaker 8: going to take time if you don't have the fallback
29:55
Speaker 8: option of ninety nine. You know, Jake Irvan is someone,
29:57
Speaker 8: for example, who when he's at his best, like he's
30:01
Speaker 8: thrown one hitters over eight innings or two hitters over
30:04
Speaker 8: you know, seven and two thirds, Like he knows how
30:08
Speaker 8: his stuff plays. He knows how to work through a
30:10
Speaker 8: roster or through a lineup. Excuse me, but again, it's
30:14
Speaker 8: it's someone who I think even he acknowledged this offseason, like, Hey,
30:17
Speaker 8: I need to change something about my game because I
30:19
Speaker 8: had an ERA in the fives last year, and a
30:22
Speaker 8: lot of that just comes down to the stuff. So yeah,
30:27
Speaker 8: it's maybe an oversimplification to say they need to throw harder,
30:31
Speaker 8: but you do have a lot of players who just
30:34
Speaker 8: don't throw as hard as other guys in the major leagues.
30:37
Speaker 8: And I think you've you've kind of seen how that's
30:40
Speaker 8: played out so far.
30:42
Speaker 5: Or the fact that they didn't go out and spend
30:44
Speaker 5: enough money or any money to solidify this just entire
30:49
Speaker 5: pitching staff in general. But the person that did spend
30:53
Speaker 5: money on Foster Griffin doesn't throw hard and he's I
30:55
Speaker 5: think he's got like a one to seven e ra
30:58
Speaker 5: so there's success there of not throwing hard. Maybe these
31:01
Speaker 5: pitching coaches shouldn't just teach how to throw a heavy
31:04
Speaker 5: ball against the wall and should teach how to throw
31:07
Speaker 5: to locations in the zone correct.
31:10
Speaker 8: And I guess that's where again I may say I'd
31:12
Speaker 8: be over simplifying things. But Foster Griffin is another one where, hey,
31:17
Speaker 8: throw hard is maybe like an unnuanced way of saying it,
31:21
Speaker 8: but he throws like seven different pitch types and they
31:23
Speaker 8: all have different sorts of break, and they're all kind
31:26
Speaker 8: of distinct shapes and velocities from one another. So maybe
31:30
Speaker 8: it isn't throwing harder, but it's changing your usage or
31:33
Speaker 8: it's adding a pitch. And you know, this is stuff
31:35
Speaker 8: that doesn't really happen in season per se, but it
31:39
Speaker 8: is figuring out, hey, what's the best way I can
31:41
Speaker 8: navigate a big league line up with what I have
31:43
Speaker 8: at the moment. Foster's a great example of someone who
31:46
Speaker 8: may not fit the prototypical shape of a big league
31:50
Speaker 8: picture right now, but they have said over and over
31:54
Speaker 8: he's super intelligent and he has all these different pitches
31:56
Speaker 8: that can get guys out. So yeah, it's not just philosophy, right,
32:00
Speaker 8: it's usage, it's how you game plan, and it's why
32:04
Speaker 8: again that this isn't necessarily the same pitching staff and
32:08
Speaker 8: the same sort of numbers that you're going to see
32:10
Speaker 8: at the end of the year is because there are
32:12
Speaker 8: guys with room to grow.
32:14
Speaker 2: We'll go full circle here to kind of finish where
32:17
Speaker 2: we started. Did you see talk Natz post about how
32:21
Speaker 2: Kevin Franzen took like a little shot this weekend at
32:26
Speaker 2: the Martinez quote from last year? Okay, so can you
32:30
Speaker 2: lay that out because you'll do it better than I will.
32:33
Speaker 5: Yeah.
32:33
Speaker 8: So, last year, Dave Martinez, who was the manager at
32:38
Speaker 8: the time, in the middle of I think it was
32:41
Speaker 8: an eleven game losing streak, was asked by me where
32:46
Speaker 8: the onus lay for their issues last year at the plate, specifically,
32:52
Speaker 8: you know, whether it was on the players, whether it
32:54
Speaker 8: was on the coaches, And when we got to that point,
32:57
Speaker 8: Davey said, it's never on coaching, and you know, the
33:00
Speaker 8: coaches work their butts off. You know a long quote
33:04
Speaker 8: that basically said that, and players took exception to that
33:10
Speaker 8: fastwards this year and you've had a coaching staff that
33:13
Speaker 8: has talked a lot about accountability among the players, but
33:16
Speaker 8: also among themselves. Corey Ready, who's their first base coach,
33:19
Speaker 8: had mentioned like, hey, some guys got picked off the
33:22
Speaker 8: other day. That's on me, Like, I, you know, I
33:25
Speaker 8: couldn't sleep at night because I had let these guys down.
33:29
Speaker 8: And that's when Franzen made his comment about, hey, that's
33:32
Speaker 8: a that's a coach with accountability. So that's a great
33:36
Speaker 8: guy making a joke. But he's also making a point
33:38
Speaker 8: that hey, like we're not just gonna you know, talk
33:41
Speaker 8: the talk, We're gonna walk it. And so I think
33:43
Speaker 8: that's been a really compelling storyline to follow this year,
33:46
Speaker 8: is just how much a really young team with a
33:49
Speaker 8: really young coaching staff has been able to hold each
33:52
Speaker 8: other accountable. And that's something I'll be following throughout the
33:54
Speaker 8: course of the.
33:54
Speaker 2: Year quick follow too. I mean, it's making me feel
33:59
Speaker 2: old that Corey Ray is a first base coach. I
34:02
Speaker 2: remember covering him draft wise. It was ten years ago
34:07
Speaker 2: exactly actually right when he was a first rounder twenty sixteen.
34:11
Speaker 1: That's crazy, how quickly.
34:13
Speaker 4: That you didn't have anyone over thirty five years old?
34:15
Speaker 2: That's true, another youngster. How old's Corey Ray? Probably thirty
34:22
Speaker 2: something like that?
34:23
Speaker 5: Ten years ago?
34:24
Speaker 2: Not even well, we're going to do it on the fly. Here,
34:27
Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you, anyone want to take.
34:28
Speaker 4: A guess twenty nine?
34:30
Speaker 1: I think it's thirty Kratz.
34:33
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm gonna say thirty or thirty one. I was
34:35
Speaker 5: in camp with him in eighteen nineteen.
34:38
Speaker 1: It's cheating.
34:38
Speaker 2: You can have to answers he's thirty one. But yes,
34:43
Speaker 2: all good guesses, good stuff though. Spencer really enjoyed the
34:46
Speaker 2: combo and the insight and congrats again on the launch
34:49
Speaker 2: of the show.
34:49
Speaker 1: We're super excited about it.
34:51
Speaker 2: Fresh episode or first episode is out right now for
34:53
Speaker 2: people to check out. Thanks, Spencer will be talking yep,
34:56
Speaker 2: thanks for having me. That's Spencer and Eric w the
35:00
Speaker 2: District Territory. That's what it looks like. It is part
35:03
Speaker 2: of the Ft Network.