Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed MCC Lieutenant (Part 12) (5/8/26)

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Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed MCC Lieutenant (Part 12) (5/8/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

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  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:03
  Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to get right
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  back to the unknown lieutenant and his interview with the
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  OIG Inspectors. Question, now, I'm just handing you back this
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  lieutenant's log, you know, a few pages back. But did
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  you were you involved with that lieutenant's log? Did you
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  make any entries on that lieutenant's log on August ninth? Answer?
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  I'm not sure? Question yeah, are you able to tell
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  by looking at it? Like, is that something that you
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  can tell who made entries? Or is it anyone can
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  make an entry? Answer? I mean we can all make
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  an entry. Question does it show like initials or anything
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  like that after the entry was made? Does it show
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  who made that entry? Answer? No? Question no, does it
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  show anything with regard to redact it on that lieutenant's log? Answer? Yeah?
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  Question what does it say? Answer redacted to pre remove?
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  Question and what does that mean? Answer pre trial remove?
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  Question Does that mean that he's leaving and he's not
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  coming back? Answer? Yeah? Question what time does it say
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  that it depends? A? Thirty eight's the answer? Question? So
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  eight thirty eight does that mean at eight thirty eight?
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  Pre trial to remove. Does that mean that they knew
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  at eight thirty eight that he wasn't coming back? Answer
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  not necessarily. Question what does it mean? Answer? It means
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  that when they put the information in question. But I'm saying, like,
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  what the information says? Is that what normally that people
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  are going to court, what it says for them if
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  they're coming back? Answer? No, Normally they say it's taken
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  off the count pre trial is removed. So he was
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  taken off the count from seven to six. He was
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  taken off that count. Question Are people that go to
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  court always taken off the count? Answer? No, question, So
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  by looking at that, that tells you that he was
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  already wab answer, I mean if they go to Brooklyn
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  sometimes they take them off or a different court. But
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  this one here, I would say, yeah, taken off of
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  the count. And again I'm not sure. I see pre
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  remove proof pre remove. Question. But by saying pre remove,
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  does that mean it's more likely that he's not coming back? Answer? Yeah?
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  Question and who would have made that entry? Answer I'm
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  not sure. Question do you know if you made that entry?
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  Answer I'm not sure. Question, and there is no way
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  to tell answer no question, So I guess the question
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  is at approximately a thirty did we already know, as
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  the bop, did we already know, Hey, this guy's probably
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  not coming back. Answer I'm not sure. Question what does
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  it show if he was coming back? Answer that's why
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  I say, hey question no, no, no, What would show
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  answer if he was coming back? Question you said if
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  it's a pre remove? Answer yeah, question if he was
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  coming back, what would it show Would it say pre
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  remove or would say something else? Answer? See, the thing is,
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  I mean he gets cut off by the investigator like
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  not that he was coming back, Like if he's just
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  going to court and you don't know if he's coming
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  back or not. If he's going to court, answer yeah,
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  question and he's not wab What does it say there?
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  Answer no question, So it would only say that if
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  they thought he wasn't coming back. Answer yeah, probably question
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  all right. So then it looks like from looking at
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  that at eight thirty eight, we knew he was probably
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  not coming back. Answer yeah, question all right, And with
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  that knowledge, should have any action or should have any
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  notification at least been made of Hey Epstein cell mate
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  is likely not coming back. We need to start thinking
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  about a new cell mate for the people that knew answer.
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  I'm not sure. You know. The thing is when it
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  was see our log is not I could go in
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  and see what time someone left and input it. That's
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  what we do at the end of the shift. Question
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  So at four pm this could have been updated. Is
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  that what you're saying? Not eight thirty answer? Uh, probably
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  like three around there. Yeah, it's not the only one question.
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  I'm not saying specifically. I'm just saying, like later in
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  the day. Answer, it's not an ongoing thing. Question it
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  could have been, But you wouldn't put eight thirty eight
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  this is when that happened. If at a thirty eight
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  you didn't know that, would you answer? Well, if I
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  don't check it, I wouldn't know that question. Right. I'm
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  not saying you specifically answer no, I mean anybody if
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  I go to the computer and it has a time
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  and it says that these are the people that left,
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  That's what I'm going off of. If I don't check
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  it at eight thirty eight, or I won't know question.
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  So when you say though, I'm talking about BOP. So
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  what I'm saying is like the person who entered that,
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  they're entering it as if at a thirty eight it
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  was known that he was likely not coming back. Is
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  that correct? Answer? It was known to be op question
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  right answer? Yeah, question yeah, I'm not saying you, I'm
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  saying be op answer there's no officers yeah. Question yeah.
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  And who likely would have entered that? Like who has
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  access to answer that? Control the lieutenants? Who else? Answer?
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  I think that's about it? Question all right, So at
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  that time it would have been either you redacted or
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  control correct answer. I'm not so sure. Question, but I'm
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  just saying, like it's you, You're the only two lieutenants
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  on and then control right answer again, I'm not sure. Question.
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  And this is all just I didn't even realize this
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  until we're now reviewing it. So this isn't I promise you,
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  this isn't like a setup. This is just trying to, like,
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  you know, figure it out. Answer. I'm not sure because
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  what if what if I say, hey, I didn't do
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  the log, or what if hey, you forgot the log?
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  You have to do this question? What do you mean? Answer?
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  If you get an emergency? Hey, listen, relieve me, I
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  ain't touched the log. All right, whatever, I got you?
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  Question right? Right? So you don't so what you're saying,
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  is you don't know if it was. He gets cut off.
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  I don't know the investigator, all right, because I mean,
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  like I know, like I'm pretty sure redacted knew he
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  was going, but he didn't know he wasn't coming back.
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  Is that correct? Answer? Yes? Question, So that's what I
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  think that you're he gets cut off. Yeah. But the
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  thing about it with this is if I relieve you
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  and you didn't do nothing, hey, you know, look out
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  for me. I got you next time. Okay, So just
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  because it's on day watch, don't mean day watch staff
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  did it. Question so that that could have been filled
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  out by someone other than that was even president at
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  eight thirty eight? Answer? Yeah, question, how would they know? Answer?
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  They got a computer? Question? What would they see at
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  the computer? Answer? It's on century question? So on century
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  it would say if he was wab or not? Answer
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  all movement for the day? Question? And would that be
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  maintained for a long period of time or is that
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  constantly refreshed? Answer? It's refreshed until midnight? Question? And then
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  you at this point in time, would we be able
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  to go back and see what you did? Answer? I
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  could come in at ten or eleven at night and
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  do a whole twenty four hours of movement. Question all right,
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  so you don't know? Answer, I don't know who did this?
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  Was it day watch or what? Question? And there is
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  no way to tell by looking at it? Answer? No question?
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  Is there in century any way to tell who entered it? Answer?
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  We don't do the century. We just take the information
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  off of century. Question Oh well, who would have put
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  it in centry? Answer R and D? Question? Okay, So
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  R and D could have put it in century. And
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  then whom ever, either one of the lieutenants or control
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  could have typed it in? Answer yeah, question okay answer
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  or yeah somebody? Question? All right, So with this information
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  at eight thirty eight, would it have been if at
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  eight thirty eight we knew that? And when I say,
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  we bop or whomever R and D control knew that
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  he was gone and not likely coming back. Who should
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  have started making those notifications that Epstein was without a
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  cell mate? Is that shoe staff? Is it? Lieutenants? Answer?
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  You said they known at this time? Question Yeah, so
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  at eight thirty eight he's going wab He leaves with
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  a brown paper bag and he's got stuff with him.
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  He knows he's not coming back. Were redacted as saying
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  I'm out, I'm not coming back. Who should have at
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  that point should have been the Shoe staff that started
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  making notifications, Hey, we know Epstein's cell mate's gone. We
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  need to start making some rounds. Is that, you know,
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  the ops or the activities lieutenant should have said, hey,
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  he's gone, We've got to notify the captain. Answer. I
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  mean the thing of it is, I don't even know
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  who the dude is. Question right answer, So for one,
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  a regular staff wouldn't even know who Bunky is. Question
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  And that's where my question. Should the Shoe have started saying,
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  like this is, hey, Ops and Activities Lieutenant, this redacted
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  guy is Epstein's cell mate. We need to start thinking
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  about putting a cell mate and getting a new cell
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  mate assigned. Answer. That's again if they definitely knew he
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  wasn't coming back, just because this like, you can get
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  a pre remove and then at four point fifty you
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  get pre removed to such and such question. Okay, so
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  this is why redacted's memo that said possibly not coming back,
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  will likely need a new cell mate. Is that why
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  that's the appropriate response? Answer? Possibly? Probably because you can
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  never tell question and is that why you're saying that
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  they would have written possibly because at this it looks
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  like it's likely, but it's not definite. Answer. Yeah, I
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  could see him, could see that happening, because, like you said,
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  this happens all the time. Question all right, because again
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  it says that inmate redacted was going WAB and possibly
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  he may not return. Also that inmate Epstein will be
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  needing a cell mate upon arrival from his attorney visit.
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  So looks like they knew the shoe should have told
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  you activity is lieutenant or redacted ops? Lieutenant? Answer? I
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  mean he gets cut off by the investigator. I'm not
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  saying that he did or that you know you already
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  said you didn't answer. I'm not even saying that he
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  should have. Question Oh, answer, I don't know. Question Okay,
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  Answer if he was notified and he said it could
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  be again, I told you eight. That's indiscernible. You guys
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  come in all the time from court. Question Yeah, but
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  I'm just saying, with the fact that Epstein everybody knows
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  he needs the cell mate, should have they notified up
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  the chain of command at this point? Answer? What if
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  he came back at eight? Question? But what I'm saying,
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  is like the fact that they know it's possible and likely,
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  should they have started making notifications? Being that you were
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  the ops lieutenant for a long time, you were a
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  lieutenant now it seems for a number of years in
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  your expert opinion as a lieutenant, should these guys have
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  started making some notifications? Answer? That's hard to say, because
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  if you pass on this information, possibly the guy shows
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  up at eight what notification I need to make? Question? Okay,
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  so you were the activities lieutenant and redacted was the
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  activities lieutenant. When that thing says eight thirty eight, do
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  you believe as the person who was, you know, the
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  ops and Activities lieutenant, those two people, do you believe
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  at that time that these notifications should have been made
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  to you? Would have you? Do you believe you should
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  have been made aware? Answer at a thirty question or
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  any time between eight thirty and I guess one fifty
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  during your shift if your shift ended at two or four,
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  we don't know. Answer. I'm not sure. Because this you
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  see pre removal all the time. They come back. Question okay, answer,
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  That's why I could see him saying, hey, this guy
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  might not be coming back, but it's a possibility he
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  can question, so then he gets cut off by the lieutenant,
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  So make notifications. Now, the investigator picks back up. If
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  he did it, hit this way. If redacted told the
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  oncoming staff, this is what's up, do you think he
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  took appropriate action? Answer who questioned redacted if he in
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  fact passed on that information saying, Hey, guys, you know
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  he's saying. He said it's the day of redacted and
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  redacted right as he's gone. That's Epstein. Sell may he's
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  going to like if he doesn't come back, definitely, he's
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  going to need a cell may answer he said that
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  to who you saying question, Well, this is what the
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  memo says. It says that again. On Friday, August ninth,
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  twenty nineteen, at approximately one fifty pm, I redacted passed
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  on to the oncoming staff member Officer redacted and president
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  shift staff redacted and Officer redacted that inmate redacted was
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  going wab and possibly may not return. Also that inmate
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  Epstein will be needing a sale mat upon arrival from
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  his attorney visit. Answer okay, so redacted and redacted was
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  on day watch. Question I don't know. It sounds like
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  what he says, is that he told redacted and these
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  guys were also present. Answer, So, in my expert opinion
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  at that time, he did the right thing. Question all right,
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  So by this he shouldn't have passed it up to
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  the ops and activities Lieutenant. He should have kept it
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  in house until it was definite. Answer it's premature. Yeah, question, okay,
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  because that would have been premature prior to this time.
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  Answer yeah, because, like I said at the time, if
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  he came back, then oh, I thought you said, we
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  need to know to change him out or we start. Yeah. Question,
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  and even keeping in mind that both redacted or however
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  you pronounce his name, answer well after that, I don't
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  think he was bunked with him after that question him
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  and no. No, what I'm saying is both of his
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  previous inmates Epstein, I'm saying redacted and redacted, they were
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  both vetted from the highest of levels. Even with that knowledge,
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  you think that they should have still waited. They were
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  vetted by the captain, the warden, and the regional director.
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  Answer yeah, question, so obviously it took some doing with
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  that knowledge. Do you think that they should have told
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  you or no, you still think it's premature answer at
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  one fifty question, Well, I mean not at one fifty answer.
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  I mean, I don't know question. It looks like a
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  thirty eight answer. Then again, I told you about that.
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  If I don't check for it, I don't know question.
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  I'm not saying. I'm not saying you checking for him,
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  you already. But what I'm saying like it appears that
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  looking at this, it appears that they knew he was
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  WAB since a thirty eight right answer, yeah, question. So
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  I'm saying between a thirty eight and whatever the end
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  of the shift is, do you believe someone should have
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  said something to you? Answer? I'm not sure because then again,
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  when you look at another log where it'll say pre
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  removed to Za, you understand question right, because he didn't.
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  Actually he gets cut off by the lieutenant. So that's
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  why I could see him saying, Hey, I'll let y'all
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  know I'm passing on to you and you because you're
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  going to be here, possibly, I'm giving you the heads
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  up question. So I guess and I understood you answer
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  the question. But what I said was considering the fact
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  that it takes at least almost an entire dat to
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  vet who is even going to be placed with him.
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  Do you think that they should have started moving his
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  up the chain of command knowing that this guy no inmate,
• 15:59
  just regular inmate, shouldn't be placed with this guy. He
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  needs to be vetted. It's vetted all the way up
• 16:05
  to the regional director's level. Answer yeah, I'm not sure
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  on that one. Question. Yeah, sure, all right, not sure.
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  So is there anything else that says with redacted? Does
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  it say when you actually he gets cut off by
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  the lieutenant, It just says eight thirty eight pre removed.
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  That means taken off the count. Now if he comes back,
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  it'll say pre removed to za and to kind of changes. Question. So,
• 16:28
  because it says pre removed, there's no reason to note
• 16:31
  when they were definitively told he wasn't coming back. Answer yeah,
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  this just means he went to court. Right, So you
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  have three going out, meaning you're off on count. It
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  could have been in the Eastern district whatever. If you
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  would come back, they would put you back on question
• 16:50
  but only if you come back, otherwise they won't name
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  you again. Answer so this is definite? I mean no,
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  this is not definite. That means he's possibly he could
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  come back, just because it says pre removed, he'll come back. Question,
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  But what I'm saying is the fact that he didn't
• 17:08
  come back, should have there been another note saying he
• 17:11
  is now definitively off our books. Answer no, you just
• 17:15
  don't see it on the They just don't see it. Question.
• 17:18
  So just by him not being back on it, it
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  just means, hey, refer back to that thing where it
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  said that he was possibly not coming back. Answer yep.
• 17:28
  Question there should not be any more notes saying like
• 17:31
  he's gone. Answer no, only think because if I'm evening watched,
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  the only thing I'm checking is the pre removed to
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  the institution. So these three they did they come back
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  today or are they off to the count? So there
• 17:45
  wouldn't be no follow up question, So there's no additional
• 17:49
  there should have been. There's not another line item that
• 17:51
  shouldn't be in there saying that redacted wasn't one of
• 17:54
  the individuals that came back. Answer no, because no question.
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  So there's a pre removed, but there's no line for removed.
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  Answer no, pre removed means off the count, he's out
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  the building. Question. Okay, so that's the only notification that
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  should have been made. Should have been made on the
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  Lieutenant's log answer, Yeah, all right, folks, we're gonna wrap
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  up right here, and in the next episode dealing with
• 18:17
  the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off.
• 18:20
  All the information that goes with this episode can be
• 18:22
  found in the description box.