Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / Philip Speer: Culinary Evolution, Texas Michelin Guide & Iconic Dishes | Chef's PSA Podcast Ep. 118

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Philip Speer: Culinary Evolution, Texas Michelin Guide & Iconic Dishes | Chef's PSA Podcast Ep. 118 · Chef's PSA Podcast

0:00
Hello chefs, this is Chef's USA podcast.
0:02
I'm your host Andre Natara. On today's episode we have Chef
0:06
Philip Speer. He's the chef owner of Commodore
0:09
restaurant here in Austin, TX, Multiple time James Beard award
0:13
nominee. He started as a pastry chef.
0:15
He's since then become a very successful savory chef.
0:18
In restaurateur, we talk all things pastry, the most
0:23
legendary pastry chefs, some iconic desserts, our favorite
0:27
cereal, hip hop, and of course, the very hot topic right now,
0:31
the Michelin Guide coming to Texas.
0:33
Stay tuned. Hey chefs, I want to give a big
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The fact that we're matching, we're twins.
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I mean, it's pretty much my uniform, so.
1:25
Is that all you wear? Black.
1:27
I mean, it's mostly what I wear in the kitchen for sure.
1:29
And yeah, in life as. Well, do you?
1:31
Do you still wear chef coats? No, I have some of those.
1:35
I probably won't won't blast the brand, but those like kind of
1:40
chefwear slash outerwear brand that's out of Brooklyn.
1:44
Yeah, I wear a lot of those. Yeah.
1:46
So I like the sideways in Leo. I I still like chef coats when
1:50
I, when I do happen to work in the kitchen, I still like chef
1:52
coats. But I sometimes when I go back
1:55
in for like a day or two, it's like I just want to wear AT
1:57
shirt. Yeah, like I used to be anti
1:59
T-shirts, but now I'm like, I kind of get it.
2:01
I'll wear AT shirt and kitchen prepping, but if I'm going to be
2:03
like on the floor service or in an event I'll wear something
2:05
that is kind of like a chef coat, but I will.
2:08
I don't wear whites anymore. Yeah, it's been a lot of years
2:11
with those starch whites as you. So for the people that don't
2:15
know, we were, we were texting back and forth and you sent me a
2:17
photo, you sent me several photos.
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One of the photos that you had, it was like the, the big baggy
2:22
white chef coat and the, the, I don't know if it was the fish
2:25
pants, right? It's funny how how much uniforms
2:27
have changed the look of the chef when you started cooking.
2:31
Like what was the chef uniform? What was the cool?
2:34
How did cool chefs look when you started cooking?
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Yeah, I mean, well, that had just those chili pepper fish
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pants, like that had just come out like Chef Fair was just like
2:42
blowing up and that's what the people were buying.
2:45
And then I remember very quickly after that, we decided those
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weren't cool. And then Sheffer had like the
2:49
khaki colored chef pants, but they all had a lasting band.
2:53
And then, yes, white, white chef coats.
2:55
And then and then the really cool kids all just work
2:58
dishwasher shirts. Dishwasher.
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Yeah, because it was like bucked the system a little bit.
3:01
So I, I, I switched over to dishwasher shirt.
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But then when I was a chef, I mean, I was in restaurants where
3:07
we were whites. Yeah, and I, I remember when
3:10
those chili pepper pants came out, my executive chef at the
3:12
time, he thought he was so cool. He had those chili pepper pants.
3:14
And I used to think, man, one day I want to earn my chili
3:16
pepper pants, right? It's like for a lot of years I
3:19
thought the the white dance goes or something to earn, but I like
3:22
I I haven't I haven't hit the ranks in the kitchen, which I
3:24
can wear white dance goes. But I used to work in a place
3:27
where we used to have to wear all white uniforms.
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So white shoes, white pants, white chef coat, white apron,
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everything. And when we would arrive to
3:35
work, the chef would line us up. It was, you know, the daily
3:38
lineup, but it was to inspect our fingernails and to look us
3:41
up and down to make sure we were clean.
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And if we weren't clean, go home then.
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That's why it was all white, to make sure that we were all
3:45
clean. The days of and I still do it,
3:48
but having a nail brush and nail Clippers in your life, in your
3:50
knife roll on the outside of your knife roll, of course not
3:53
touching the knives. I used to I used to have a shoe
3:56
shine kit in my office. So when when the chefs would
3:59
come in and, you know, their shoes looked like they needed a
4:02
little buff, it's the sous chefs would say, go to chef's office
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and go shine your shoes. So it was like the punishment.
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They knew, like, you're going to get sent to chef's office to
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shine your shoes. So when they'd show up to my
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office and I'd say I already knew, like, it was like the
4:14
inside thing, like, can I help you?
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Yeah, I'm here to shine my shoes.
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Like, OK, shoeshine kids there. I'm going to sit here and scold
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you for 10 minutes and teach you how to shine your shoes.
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The hollow one I worked for says John George had a had a short
4:25
stint in Texas and I worked at that.
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I opened that restaurant. It was in Houston and you could
4:31
tell the people who were not prepared because they had razor
4:33
rash and they had razor rash because they were dry shaven in
4:36
the locker room. Because if you were not shaved
4:39
when you showed up to work, you had to use the dry shitty razor,
4:43
the big, the big in the locker room.
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And you'd be like, oh, oh, razor rash.
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Oh and I had it plenty myself but I couldn't really grow
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facial hair for until I was like 35 S.
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So you have a very interesting career trajectory.
4:55
So I mean, in in Austin, TX, you've been the chef of or
5:00
worked at some of the best restaurants.
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You were part of Uchi in like the iconic Uchi, right?
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And I was thinking about this when I was driving over here
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because I was like, man, so many great chefs came through Uchi in
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Austin or in Texas. Really.
5:16
I was thinking about you, Junior.
5:18
I was at dinner with Junior the other day.
5:20
You know, Nick Giannis, it's like, man, so many, so many
5:23
great chefs have gone through there, right?
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It's like a who's who Paul Key, right?
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Who's Who of Texas and Austin chefs have gone through those
5:30
kitchens. Absolutely.
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I mean, even people like Val Cantu and like.
5:34
Really. I didn't realize he went
5:36
through. There.
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Yeah, yeah, if I'm actually trying to work on bringing him
5:39
for dinner to do a little collab later this year.
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But Kevin Tien, he was a he was an Uchi guy.
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Uchi Co. He's killing it right now.
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People nationally as well, but yeah, especially locally and in
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Austin and in Texas. I mean, so many amazing chefs
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came through through that restaurant.
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People who've won many, many awards and gotten recognition,
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but even just had just successful restaurants.
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It was really cool. It was, it was those formative,
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iconic years. You know, I started year 2 into
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Uchi and was with them for over 10 years and really helped, you
6:15
know, gratefully with the team. But we helped build into what it
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what to, into what it became and then the last few years and what
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it is now and, and until it's sold into, into the millions and
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millions of dollars of the empire.
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Right. Yeah, exactly.
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So it's funny because I look at my career and there's been two,
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maybe 3 instances, you know, 27 year career, there's been about
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two or three instances where it's like, OK, this team and
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everyone from that team, like you feel it.
6:40
It's like lightning in a bottle. Like, there's no way, you know,
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all these All Stars should be in the same kitchen at the same
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time, and then they all go on and become executive chefs and
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run successful kitchens themselves.
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That's happened to me probably about twice in my career.
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Like when it's like. Can name the two times in my
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career as well. Yeah.
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So Uchi, I'm assuming there's that one time.
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It was the second time. It was Bankstown George.
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It was when we did bank in in Houston and that was in 2001.
7:07
And so everybody from that next generation went through that
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kitchen. So anybody in Texas who wanted
7:12
the New York City experience without having the ability to
7:15
move to New York City to do that went to Bankstown, George.
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And so many people came out of that kitchen.
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I mean, I made lifelong friendships there who went on to
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do amazing things, run their own restaurants, but get, you know.
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Were you a pastry them? So for people that don't know,
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you started as a pastry. Chef.
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I started as a pastry chef, yes. And.
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Tell I still identify as a pastry I.
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Still identify as well. So, so tell people, right,
7:39
Because a lot of people that listen to chefs PSA, they're
7:40
like, we need the pastry episode.
7:42
We do. Right so the 1st guest episode I
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had was KC duty pastry chef right?
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So I was like, I can't, I can't talk on pastries.
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Now here's something that people don't know is I did start as a
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pastry cook, pastry chef. I didn't know that.
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Yeah, my first few years in the kitchen were that.
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And then one day someone called off on the line and I was like,
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OK, I'll jump in. I don't know how to cook.
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And then I I was like, I like this, this, this is cool.
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So I just stayed afterwards. Yeah, it was so different.
8:08
It was different. But when I was studying pastry
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and it was different, then it was like cakes, right?
8:15
Like it was like we had to make all these different cakes and
8:17
you know, croquembouche and I knew how to make the hell out of
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a, of a twill, right? It was like I was the junior and
8:24
making simple syrups and sponge and it was a poppy seed cake and
8:28
this that and the other. But from from your standpoint,
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what were some of the difficult things of going from sweet to
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savory? That's that's question number
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one. And then why do you think that's
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important? Because I know you have a very
8:45
specific reason why you why you want to go through some of those
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transitions. Yeah, absolutely.
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So I I knew pretty early on that I wanted to do pastry.
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And I actually had a family friend whose father was a pastry
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chef. And one thing that he told me
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was he said most pastry chefs today are garmage who have gone
9:02
to pastry, said really learn the science and the skill and the
9:08
technique of baking. And when you can bake and then
9:11
you transition into the restaurant pastry chef position
9:14
or the restaurant pastry kitchen, it'll just have a much
9:16
bigger bag of tricks. It won't be Creme brulees and
9:18
Tweedles only, which are great, right?
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So I actually baked it. Texas French bread, Swedish Hill
9:25
Quacks, 43rd Street Bakery, all these local Austin bakeries for
9:28
five years before I even stepped foot in a restaurant.
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And then I went into a restaurant as the assistant
9:33
pastry chef and then quickly became the pastry chef of that
9:36
entire restaurant group. And it, it worked.
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Having that knowledge that, that like basic essential,
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fundamental knowledge of baking far expanded every tool that I
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had, every trick in the book I was able to do.
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And then later on when the science of, of cooking became
9:55
something much more at the forefront when you're talking
9:57
about molecular astronomy, etcetera, I had a much better
10:00
understanding of that because I have really learned those
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basics. I also knew as a pastry chef, I
10:07
had figured out pretty quickly that it was the most expendable
10:09
job in the kitchen, right? When you, when your, when your
10:12
business starts failing, when you start losing covers, when,
10:14
when dessert sales stop dropping, start dropping and
10:17
revenue slows down, pastry chef goes.
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And that is my experience. That is what I've seen.
10:21
Cut the pastry chef. Put the creme brulee on the
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menu. Exactly right.
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Exactly. You can order desserts.
10:25
You can get ice creams from other places.
10:27
You can get away with a scoop of ice cream, a splash of Sherry in
10:29
a tweele. And guess what?
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You can make that in 10 minutes. Literally.
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So I learned everything in the restaurant it was that's
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impulse. My brain kind of works that.
10:39
Way. Which restaurant was this one?
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So the first transition I made was to this restaurant called
10:44
Granite Cafe, and that was part of the San Gabriel Restaurant
10:48
group, which later on, and I think you're probably in Dallas,
10:51
it was Mezzaluna Bitter in Granite Cafe.
10:54
And that was Reed Clemens, who now owns The Grove.
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That was like the restaurant group in Austin.
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And I became their their executive pastry chef after
11:02
about a year. But I went into that restaurant
11:03
at Granite Cafe and was like, OK, I need to.
11:07
I had seen how the pastry chef was treated.
11:08
I had seen how much money the pastry chef was making.
11:10
So I was like, I need to learn how to cook too.
11:13
So I would jump on the line and I would work service and I would
11:16
plate desserts and then I would work ROM merge and then I would
11:18
jump to the grill. And I did that for years.
11:20
And then Jean Luc's Bistro where Sean Circle took over Jean Luc's
11:24
Bistro in 1999. And I was the pastry chef.
11:28
He was the first Dino Sean. He was the first chef I worked
11:31
for. That was, it's a real deal who
11:33
had Acia grad who worked at some of the best restaurants in the
11:36
country. And it was a very different,
11:39
very different thing. And he also told me, look, I can
11:42
hire a sous chef that knows pastry or pastry chef that can
11:44
also kind of act as my sous chef.
11:46
So I'm your guy. And I continued to work in that
11:50
kitchen and learn every part of the restaurant.
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And he ran that restaurant. He is, he is the one person that
11:55
I could see. I learned how to or by emulating
11:59
him and watching him how to run a restaurant from the past, and
12:02
I mean the whole restaurant. And he was a pro at that.
12:05
Yeah. So one of the things that you
12:09
touched on is going from understanding the basics of
12:14
pastry, but also understanding the savory.
12:17
So for savory chefs that are listening, if if you had to give
12:20
them some advice, because the reality is sometimes you got
12:22
like 20 year vets or 15 year vets, they're not going to say,
12:25
OK, yeah, I want to go back to pastry school.
12:26
What are some basic things that you think every savory chef
12:30
should know and add to their toolbox?
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Absolutely. I mean bread, I mean, and it's a
12:34
pretty basic thing and you get something you can work at work
12:37
on, on the line at home, It's quick.
12:39
You do a mix, you do a proof, you do a bake and really
12:41
learning how that works and how you can like, and I know many,
12:44
many savory chefs who are really just fascinated by bread and how
12:48
bread works and sourdoughs and starters and whatnot.
12:50
So I would say learn bread, get a old, get a bread book, get the
12:53
bread Bible, something like that and get some of the Tartine
12:56
books and and really understand the baking of bread because that
12:59
really kind of puts your mind into a different place.
13:03
Going back to like to me, my I get asked this question
13:06
sometime. I'm sure you do too.
13:07
What's your favorite tool in the kitchen?
13:08
I have a real smart ass response and I say my favorite tool in
13:11
the kitchen is an egg because you can do anything with eggs
13:15
really master egg cookery and egg cookery is not just cooking
13:19
eggs at brunch. Egg cookery is learning how to,
13:23
learning why. Why the yolks work the way they
13:25
do, the whites work they do works the way they do.
13:27
Then you can learn meringues, brulees, custards, baked
13:31
custards and really understand all of that.
13:33
Then you can do like Tamamashii and like understand, and you can
13:36
do it in savory and sweet applications.
13:39
And those two things right there will expand everything that you
13:42
can do significantly. But learning how to make a tweel
13:46
out of anything is a great skill 'cause you can lose that You
13:49
said tweels earlier fully across the kitchen.
13:51
So you, you remember the old days when we used to wear the,
13:53
the tall chef tokes, right? And with all the different
13:56
pleats and they used to say like 100 different, 101 different
13:58
ways to cook an egg. So every, every chef pleat.
14:01
And you know, back in culinary school, like, oh, make an
14:04
omelet. By the way, I I I can make a
14:05
good French omelet. I can make I believe you.
14:08
I can make a good French omelette.
14:09
Like a lot of people like talk shit was like I see a lot of
14:12
these videos 'cause you know, I spend a lot of time on social
14:15
media and I watch these people like, oh, let me show you how to
14:18
make a French omelette trash. Like I can make a good French
14:20
omelette. I think 'cause it's been a
14:22
while, but. I, yeah, I I continue to
14:26
practice French. Even though I don't like brunch,
14:28
I could still make a good. Franchise.
14:29
I would have never guessed either.
14:31
Why? So let me ask you this because I
14:33
know you don't. You're a fan of brunch and I'm
14:35
and I'm traumatized by brunch, right?
14:37
So why? Why are you such like why?
14:40
Why this contrarian attitude towards brunch?
14:44
Well, I'm not thinking. Maybe I'm the contrarian.
14:47
Maybe it's because I am a pastry chef and I worked early in the
14:51
morning. Maybe it's because having a love
14:54
for savory cooking and a love for sweet cooking, brunch is the
14:57
perfect place to meld those things, right?
14:59
Anything from from pancakes to to French toast, which is a, a
15:04
bread that you bake that's been soaked in a custard that you
15:06
make right and then cooked on a stove top.
15:09
Again, egg, egg cookery is my favorite.
15:11
So the multiple applications of egg that you can put what other
15:15
menu can you take 1 ingredient and put on a menu 15 different
15:18
ways, right? Like it's amazing.
15:20
It's it's scientific, it's fun. I like being up early.
15:25
I don't know and I will. I would close in.
15:27
I would. I would fucking close the
15:28
kitchen down on a Saturday and come make brunch on Where are we
15:31
7 minutes in. Yeah, yeah.
15:33
You're good, You're good, you're good.
15:35
We're 18 all. Right.
15:37
I would I would close the kitchen and then come work
15:39
brunch the next day and I was fine with it.
15:42
Sometimes I was still drunk. You know, you made that comment
15:44
the other day and that's absolutely true.
15:46
I mean, that's, that's a lot of it is like you work Saturday
15:48
night like. Who wants to go to brunch
15:49
tomorrow morning? But I I do.
15:51
I love brunch. I I love the again, the science
15:55
of it, the egg cooking, the eggs and then combining.
15:57
It's the best place to combine the savory in the suite.
15:59
But I got to ask you, chef, and this is what I really wanted to
16:01
ask you. Sure.
16:02
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Saga. So I'll, I'll tell you.
16:45
So here's this is this is like, because I was like, man, I know
16:47
I'm going to get grilled on brunch.
16:49
So I started thinking about like, where's my trauma?
16:50
And I sat down and I took some ayahuasca and we went down.
16:55
Yeah, I went, I went down. I connected with the brunch, the
16:58
brunch snake. All joking aside, when I was a
17:03
hotel chef early on in my career is like Christmas brunch,
17:09
Thanksgiving brunch, Easter brunch.
17:12
Every single major holiday when I wanted to not be at work, we
17:16
had to open. We were the only ones open.
17:18
So not only were we open, but it was the busiest time.
17:21
It's not like we're going to get out early and to go spend
17:23
Christmas with our family or anything like that.
17:25
It's like, Nope, you're going to be here all night on Christmas
17:28
Eve. You're going to be prepping,
17:29
going to be here all night on the 23rd because prepping and
17:33
you're going to work Christmas Day and then you're going to go
17:35
home after celebrations have happened.
17:37
And it wasn't just Christmas, it was all the holidays.
17:39
So that was Part 1. Part 2 is it seemed like in
17:44
every independent restaurant that I've been a part of, when
17:47
brunch was introduced, it was always, I don't want to say it
17:52
was like the beginning to the end, but it was like it was
17:55
like, OK, so can I get more cooks?
17:58
Nope. Do it with the ones that you
17:59
have. So we'd have to pull cooks off
18:00
Friday night. Friday night service is our
18:02
biggest night. We're going to pull them off.
18:04
We're going to put them on prepping brunch because you
18:07
have, yes, there's a lot of eggs, like you said, and French
18:09
toast and this that there. But there was also a lot of
18:10
sauce work and, and things that go into that.
18:13
And it's like, OK, so I'm going to pull off some cooks.
18:15
And now Friday night service suffers and then Saturday, you
18:20
know, Saturday and Sunday brunch when it rolled around, it was
18:24
just chaos and busy and the kitchen's dirtier.
18:27
And you have these fine dining cooks that are, you know,
18:31
they're the towel folding is out the window, you know, putting
18:34
your tweezers away, just use a spatula, like just use a
18:37
burger's pad, right? Like the rules are out the out
18:39
the window and it was chaotic. Now I will say like I do enjoy
18:43
brunch in terms of writing the menu.
18:45
I love writing a brunch. I love creating that food.
18:49
I just hated working brunch services.
18:50
Like Saturday was like the IT was like the end of the week,
18:54
roughest service and good or bad, right?
18:56
It could have been a great service too.
18:58
I'm tired. I want to sleep in late the next
19:00
day. It's like, Nope, wake up early,
19:01
go to brunch, you know, and this was this is a different time.
19:04
So for people that are listening, this is a different
19:06
time, but it's like show up to brunch soon as I walked in.
19:09
Chef, would you like coffee or or or a Bloody Mary?
19:13
Bloody Mary Today, let's get the brunch service going.
19:16
I mean, I definitely had been part of kitchens where shots
19:19
were lined up on the brunch, on the brunch brunch clock in
19:22
table, because that that was what was necessary, or so we
19:26
thought. Yeah, absolutely.
19:29
Yeah. That's Saturday.
19:31
When you do Saturday, Sunday brunch, I think that doing just
19:34
a Sunday brunch is hard because then you're creating a whole
19:36
menu for one day. So when you do Saturday and
19:38
Sunday brunch, then you are able to create things.
19:40
You do prep. And, you know, you and I both
19:43
know that doing 100% more prep takes 25% more of the time if
19:47
you're doing it all at once, right?
19:48
So you can prep for two days, you have a better chance of
19:51
utilizing all the product. You don't have to throw stuff
19:52
away. So Saturday, Sunday brunch is
19:54
always a better option in my opinion.
19:57
So when you but you're right, like you pull the Friday night
20:00
cooks and then they open Saturday and then that
20:01
transition from Saturday brunch service to Saturday night
20:04
service is K. And isn't the kitchen just
20:07
dirtier? Yeah, it's just like there's.
20:09
There's broken eggs. Like there's never even eggs in
20:11
this kitchen. Why is there egg shells at the
20:13
corner? Like kicked under the lowboy?
20:15
Touché. Touché.
20:17
Yeah, I get that. But, you know, some of there's
20:20
some part of us that like, thrives on that too, a little.
20:22
Bit but look, if you're cooking brunch, I'm going yeah, like if
20:25
you're not cooking out there, like if someone I'll go to a
20:28
restaurant and enjoy brunch. Like you know what, I'm sorry
20:31
you guys have to go through this, but I'm I'm going to order
20:33
some, I'm going to order some enmoladas or, you know, whatever
20:36
you have on, on the Mason chilaquilas.
20:37
And thank you very much. I'm sorry you had to work, but
20:39
thank you for the eggs. For sure.
20:41
I, we have a mutual friend that came in and helped celebrate
20:44
the, the five year anniversary of Coleman Dor Elan and we
20:48
cooked brunch together and I wasn't planning on cooking
20:52
brunch that morning. However, the cooks we have, we
20:56
didn't have brunch cooks anymore because we stopped doing brunch
20:59
service. As much as I love it, we just,
21:01
it didn't make sense for us in this, in the current climate.
21:05
So we, we stopped doing brunch service.
21:08
So none of our cooks were brunch trained.
21:09
A couple of our chefs were from, you know, because we've had
21:11
chefs with us from day one, but none of our cooks were.
21:14
So Elon comes in, we write this menu.
21:16
It's a super fun menu. We get all the prepped on
21:18
ourselves. That's to not disturb service.
21:20
And then Sunday morning comes like, let's go.
21:22
We're excited. We're going to be on the floor.
21:23
We have friends coming in. We're going to like show the
21:26
cooks how to do a couple of things and then get on the floor
21:28
and just bullshit and be be silly like we, we always are.
21:31
And within the 1st 5 minutes, it was very clear to everyone that
21:35
I was working the pancake station and I worked the pancake
21:38
station for four fucking hours and flipped more pancakes.
21:41
I think I have my entire career. It was busy and it was just so
21:45
funny because that shit happened.
21:46
You go into brunch and you're just, you're stuck there and
21:49
you're like, OK, well, I'm either making French omelets
21:51
because there's only a handful of people who can do great
21:53
omelets, or I'm flipping camp pancakes for I'm doing this.
21:55
So it was, but it was fun. I had fun.
21:58
Like, don't get me wrong, I I enjoy brunch food like I I it's
22:01
one of those menus that I really like.
22:03
If you said write a brunch menu, I'm like, I'm in.
22:04
Like for anyone that's listening that's looking for consulting
22:07
for brunch menus, I'll write them for you.
22:09
I'm not going to show up one day.
22:10
Like, don't ask me to work those, those brunch services.
22:13
But I do enjoy writing menus with eggs, like egg dishes,
22:16
honestly, some of my favorite super fun.
22:17
Yeah, I love them. So I do want to ask you this.
22:23
When you look at your career as a pastry chef, and there's a
22:26
fine line between art and craft, right?
22:30
Absolutely. Where do you differ?
22:32
Is it all art? Is it all craft?
22:33
Is it a combination of both? Is it science?
22:36
Right. So have you seen this meme?
22:37
It's like a, a chef is a scientist and accountant.
22:40
You know which one I'm talking about.
22:41
Yeah. A psychiatrist.
22:43
Sure. Yeah.
22:45
Like, like, I saw that meme, and I got to be honest with you.
22:48
But the first time I saw it, it kind of annoyed me.
22:51
And so I like, I created a counter meme to it as like a
22:53
chef is all those things, but are they still a cook?
22:56
Like at what point do you just say, no, I'm, I'm just a cook,
22:58
right? And I, and I meant that just
23:00
kind of sarcastically. I do get it.
23:01
You have to do all those things. But when you think about what a
23:04
pastry chef is and what a chef is like, yes, you have to wear
23:08
all those hats. But where is that fine line
23:10
between art, craft, science, cook?
23:13
Well, to me, art and craft run hand in hand and, and not to,
23:17
to, to draw from somewhere else, but I just I said this recently,
23:20
you know, and this is something that, you know, one of my
23:24
favorite artists and, and writers and and he doesn't even
23:27
really consider himself an artist in the way that we see
23:29
artists. But Rick Rubin talks about, you
23:32
know, anything that's created as art.
23:34
Yeah, anything, anything that is in, in anything that you have,
23:38
if something has inspired you enough to create something, you
23:41
are creating art. You are creating something in
23:43
the world that is artistic, that didn't exist before.
23:46
And so call it a craft, called it art, whatever it may be.
23:49
Creation is that. And I love that and I love every
23:54
aspect of it. You should be able, as a great
23:58
chef, you should be able to not only create great dishes and be
24:02
artistic on that front, you should also be able to execute
24:05
those. And I think that that's where we
24:07
get into like the craftsmanship of it.
24:09
It's like, cool, I created this, but now can I make it again?
24:12
And then can I make it throughout service?
24:14
And then can I make it throughout the week?
24:15
And then can I show you how to make it?
24:17
And then can I show you how to make it in a way where I know
24:19
you're going to make it correctly And I know that I can
24:21
go? Home.
24:22
I mean, how hard is that? As someone, as someone who's
24:25
been a chef for almost 30 years or was a chef for 30 years
24:29
because you retired down the age, yeah.
24:30
OK. You know, teach, teach your
24:33
staff to create, to, to, to execute your creation many, many
24:38
times over the course of weeks or months, depending on how
24:41
often you change your menu and, and, and know that the
24:45
craftsmanship is going to remain consistent and within the
24:48
integrity of which he created it.
24:50
And I think that is the like really hard part of this job.
24:54
We can create things. And if and if it's true that
24:56
everything created as art, well, some art probably tastes bad,
24:59
right? So you have to create something
25:01
that, you know, a guest is going to want to come in and order
25:04
more than once if, because they're going to have it the
25:06
first time and say, Oh, I want that again.
25:08
And I have it one time and be like, I never want to have that
25:10
again. Because then you don't then.
25:11
And especially how restaurants are today.
25:13
You if, if, if I'm not impressing you, the when the
25:16
minute you walk in the door, I'm probably not getting you back
25:18
into my business. And so as a business owner, a
25:21
chef, a technician, a Craftsman, an artist, all of those things
25:26
have to matter. And if they, if they don't
25:28
matter to you, you're, you're going to lose a part of the
25:31
business and eventually that business I think will not work
25:35
out. So you could say it's all art.
25:37
It's not all good art. Yeah, absolutely right.
25:39
It all falls well. It's all subjective.
25:42
Yeah, right. Sure, right.
25:43
I mean, it truly is. I mean, of course there are some
25:45
things that are a train wreck, but but I mean.
25:48
To someone, to someone, to the to the creator.
25:50
It's not right. It's all subjective.
25:52
Yeah. So to the to the to the creator
25:56
and their mom and their and and their family like Oh my God,
25:59
those are the most amazing pink enchiladas I've ever had.
26:03
Right. But but to the to the so there's
26:06
levels to the to the, to the appreciation of art.
26:08
You can see the technique, you see the complexity.
26:11
You saw this piece of art that's like a banana taped to a like
26:15
with a piece of tape. You know what I'm talking about.
26:18
I don't know who made it, but it was like, I remember it was like
26:21
controversial because so I did, I did art.
26:24
I made art. I put a Sharpie up and I taped
26:28
it with blue tape and I put it on the wall and I like took a
26:30
photo of it and I tried to sell it as an NFT during the NFT
26:33
Crazy. Here's my art.
26:35
It's a sharpie, right? Speaking of art.
26:39
Did it sell? No, anything won't spy it like
26:41
DME, it's only it's only a three Bitcoin.
26:44
OK, perfect. That's it.
26:45
Let's not do it. When you think about art and
26:50
you've created a ton of dishes, when you think about like, OK,
26:53
what are the best three? Like if you had to, if you had
26:56
to name three of your most memorable desserts that you've
26:58
ever made. And by the way, think of one.
27:00
We were in Dallas. You made the like the, I don't
27:03
know, it was like a tamal banana.
27:05
It's fucking good. Like it was one of the best
27:07
desserts I've ever had. And I remember you saying, I've
27:08
been working on it for a while. And I was like, I tried.
27:10
I was like, I remember for those people that are listening that
27:14
don't know, we did a Dallas. We did a dinner in Dallas at
27:17
Jose restaurant and Phillip had the dessert course, you're up
27:22
last. There's a little bit extra and
27:24
every single guest chef that was there, myself included, we just
27:28
sat around and like, fuck, this is good.
27:29
It was one of those desserts. I was like, damn, that's a
27:31
banger. Can I?
27:33
I'll tell you, I was like, I know I don't have a restaurant,
27:36
but how can I steal, right? Like I was thinking, I'll share
27:39
it with you, chef. It was so good.
27:41
It was so good. It was really good.
27:42
Thank you. No not I do want to say I
27:45
actually did 2 courses and that dinner also did that first
27:48
course so. You did.
27:48
You did. You did.
27:49
This it was delicious too. Yeah, not as memorable.
27:52
I remember the. No, no, I mean, look, look how
27:56
how telling is that, right? Like what is the, I did 2
27:58
courses that dinner, the dinner was excellent.
28:00
Everybody's course was great. The memorable course was, was
28:04
the, the dessert that I made. I mean, I think that's a little
28:06
bit telling of, of how I look at food.
28:09
So do you want me to name what I think those?
28:10
Yeah, tell me your top three. Tell me your top three.
28:14
I don't want this to be controversial.
28:15
No, no, no controversy. But I created the fried milk.
28:18
What? Do you mean you created the
28:19
fried? Milk.
28:20
I created the fried milk dessert at Uchi.
28:22
You created the fried milk. I did.
28:24
Let's tell me. So that dessert has become
28:29
Uchi's only signature dessert. Still on the menu.
28:32
Past 17 years? Oh, that's about the menu. 17
28:36
years in your book? Yeah, it's an Uchi book.
28:38
It's an Uchi book, and it's also on Beyoncé's cover page of her
28:42
website, beyonce.com, I assume, and I.
28:47
Shout out to Beyoncé. I know.
28:49
Shout out to the Uchi restaurant's pastry chef.
28:51
Yeah, Yeah. Who has put her hand on that
28:56
dessert. And it's wonderful.
28:58
She's one of the most incredible pastry chefs ever.
29:01
I I really, truly, truly believe that.
29:03
And I feel bad that she hasn't continued to make a dessert
29:06
that's on hers. But that is probably the number
29:09
one most popular, most thought about dessert.
29:12
Now, all three of them are going to be uchi desserts because I
29:16
spent the majority of my career in that one place.
29:20
The other parts of my career are kind of bounced.
29:21
I mean, Commodore's been five years now.
29:23
I've been working on it for six did.
29:24
You put the Tamal on the Commodore menu.
29:26
No, I did not. I put the tobacco cream and that
29:30
was a really memorable dessert for a lot of people.
29:32
And it's one of those desserts that was like, and they loved it
29:35
and they hated it and it was very polarizing.
29:38
And that was a very memorable. And I have people today
29:40
literally stop me sometimes on the street and say, Hey, I know
29:43
who you are. You created this dessert.
29:44
And it was fucking, it blew my mind.
29:46
And but like my husband hated it.
29:48
I'm like, Yep, that that was the response I always got from that
29:51
dessert. And then to me the most, the one
29:54
that is the most important to me is the was also a Nuji dessert
29:57
and it was on the menu for like 15 years.
29:59
And it was the peanut butter semi Fredo.
30:02
And that was peanut butter, semi Fredo with an apple, miso sorbet
30:06
with sake, rehydrated raisins, apple chips.
30:09
It's beautiful dessert. I love that dessert by the way.
30:11
Thank you. And that one is it.
30:15
It. It means so much to me for
30:16
multiple reasons. It's the first dessert that I
30:18
felt like was the truly, truly cohesive artistic offering that
30:24
I had that made sense, that was thought out, and it was inspired
30:27
by my daughter. So like, that had hit me on so
30:30
many levels and it was in all of the restaurants for a really
30:33
long time. So I would say those 3 desserts
30:37
are the top three desserts. Recently Uchiko started doing a
30:41
fried milk ice cream and just so just in case you were curious,
30:45
I'd get no resent rules from that.
30:47
You should. What's up with that?
30:48
I. Asked Tyson.
30:49
I was like, can you get like 1%? 1%, that's 1%.
30:51
That's all I. Want that's how Is that too much
30:53
to ask? These days, that's not much to
30:55
ask. I'd say those are my top three
30:57
desserts. And and if that's any reflection
31:00
of like how important that time Aducci was to meet with Tyson,
31:05
with that whole crew, with Paul, with Yoshi, with all of those
31:08
amazing, incredible chefs, it's that that is a true reflection
31:12
of that. It's interesting that you said
31:13
that because that's lightning in a bottle.
31:14
Like we're talking about, like so many great chefs came out of
31:17
Uchi during that time. I, I, I forgot about Yoshi as
31:20
well, right. But not only did so many great
31:22
chefs, but iconic dishes. And so here's something that you
31:25
don't know and I'll share a dessert story with you, but I'll
31:27
also share some praise those 3 desserts during that time.
31:33
So I want to say this is maybe like 2010, 2012 ish.
31:38
You were still at Uchi's pastry. Yeah, I remember I came down to
31:41
Uchi and I was trying all the desserts and, you know, at that
31:43
time I had the Uchi cookbook. I was like, I was blown away by
31:47
the desserts. I was there.
31:49
Your desserts at that point in time, at that at that snapshot
31:52
in time, your desserts were arguably some of the greatest in
31:56
the country, right? Because I was I was going out to
31:59
I was in Chicago, I was in California.
32:01
I was eating at all these Michelin star restaurants,
32:02
trying to create one of the best restaurants for myself in
32:05
Dallas. And I remember when I ate at
32:08
Uchi, I was like, these are the best desserts of all the
32:12
restaurants that I've been to across the country.
32:14
And I remember wanting to create my own great dessert.
32:20
So this is the story. Up the street from where we had
32:23
our restaurant in Highland Park Village in Dallas, there was a
32:26
Tom Ford. There might still be a Tom Ford
32:27
store over there, right? And I'm a I'm a Cologne stop.
32:31
I probably wear too much, but I really enjoy Tom Ford Cologne
32:34
and I really enjoy his tobacco Peniel, right?
32:38
So I was like, I want it. The store was opening the
32:40
restaurants here. I wanted to get his attention
32:42
'cause I was like, I want some free Cologne and maybe a bespoke
32:45
suit or something. Like, how do I get his
32:48
attention? Let me create for their grand
32:50
opening a tobacco vanilla dessert.
32:52
Holy shit. Yeah, right.
32:54
And I was like, fuck, I don't know how to cook with tobacco
32:56
though, at that point in time. Like, Google is not that savvy
32:58
with recipes. There's not a lot of cookbooks
33:01
out there. But then I found your tobacco
33:03
cream recipe in the Gucci book, right?
33:05
And I think Alinea has one as well, a tobacco recipe, a
33:08
tobacco cream also in the Alinea book, I think.
33:11
Yeah. So I was looking at different
33:13
iterations and I was like, how do I make this?
33:15
I was bringing my because I smoked a ton of cigars, right?
33:18
So I'm bringing my cigars from home, giving them to my
33:19
patients, Like, figure this out. I want, you know, tobacco,
33:22
vanilla, blah, blah, blah. We, we made a poor rendition
33:24
since like 2000, made a poor rendition of a tobacco vanilla
33:28
dessert. Didn't come out great years
33:29
later because I had this idea of like, how do we execute a great
33:34
tobacco and vanilla dessert? So Tom Ford is staying and I, I,
33:38
I told my pastry chef to create these tobacco and vanilla bon
33:42
bons for them. They came out great gangster,
33:44
right? So perfect.
33:45
We sent them up to the room. Handwritten note.
33:47
You know, I've been working on this dessert for X amount.
33:50
I'm hoping that like he's going to say thank you so much.
33:52
By the way, I'd like to meet you.
33:53
Here's here's whatever, right? In a band for nothing, not even
33:57
a thank you, right. I was like, I was so pissed, but
33:59
we ended up putting a Tom Ford. Not Tom Ford, but a tobacco
34:03
vanilla dessert on the Garrison menu.
34:06
Oh shit, it was beautiful. It was on a golden Bernadotte
34:09
plate. I don't, I don't remember
34:11
everything. It was like 10X vanilla bean ice
34:13
cream and you know, Tonka bean and tobacco, Cremo, whatever.
34:18
And then the pandemic hit. We closed.
34:20
We had it on the menu for like a week.
34:21
Oh, shut up. Yeah, yeah, I would have made
34:23
waves. Yeah, and I was like this would.
34:24
Have come just to try. That it was like I was like,
34:27
this is it this is going to fucking knock everyone socks
34:29
off. The news came, I can't remember
34:31
which, which news station they came and did a little feature on
34:33
that one is there. I was like, this is it, This is
34:35
my, you know, yeah, Even though I didn't fucking make any of it,
34:39
right? My pastry chef did.
34:40
It was like, it's my idea, though.
34:43
And then it it was gone pandemic.
34:45
But yeah, so Long story short is you're a big part of that
34:48
inspiration there. Oh, thank you.
34:50
FYI, Appreciate that full circle that yeah, no, that means so
34:53
much. And to hear those stories and
34:55
you know that time Minuchi again and and I talk about it so much
35:00
and it was so formative. It was formative for the the
35:03
brand and the company, but it's so formative for us as the cooks
35:06
and the chefs and as you see went on to do, you know, many of
35:09
us went on to do other great things.
35:12
But during that time when you said thank you that, you know,
35:17
say there's some of the best, if not be best, some of the best
35:19
desserts in the country. Of course, me being the
35:23
generally pretty humble person I am, would argue that be like,
35:25
no, this person is making amazing stuff.
35:26
I was inspired by Tupac. I was inspired by Jordan Khan.
35:29
Sam Mason was the the greatest space chef that ever lived.
35:32
You know, these things, and I do want to say Tobacco Cream
35:36
predates a linear book release, just just.
35:41
But I got four. I got 4 James Beard nominations
35:44
in that time. Yeah.
35:45
So other people were looking at it, too, which is awesome.
35:48
Yeah. You know, and award systems are
35:51
crazy. And when you were young in it
35:54
and you're getting the recognition, it's the most
35:56
important thing. As you get a little bit of space
35:58
from it, it changes, right? But you do see that people are
36:04
looking at what you're creating on a national level and that
36:08
feels amazing. Yeah, So I, I want to say two
36:12
things. One, the the Michelin Guide is
36:16
coming to Texas and there's conversations that we can have
36:20
on the podcast. And then I've had a ton of
36:22
conversations, as people say, off record, right.
36:25
The other day I was at dinner with Junior Borges.
36:28
We were. I won't say which restaurant.
36:30
But I'm I know which restaurant you were at.
36:31
Do you? Yeah, Yeah.
36:33
Did you already hear the story? No.
36:34
Oh, But I'm 99% certain we sat next to a Michelin inspector.
36:42
And it's funny because I was texting with the chef there.
36:45
I said, hey, by the way, I think we sat next to a Michelin
36:46
inspector. He's like, haha, you would say
36:48
that? I was like, no, no, no, right.
36:49
I'm serious, I'm serious. And he looked at the reservation
36:53
and the person was there for like 2 hours.
36:55
They ordered coffee at the end. They sat there with coffee
36:58
listening to Junior and I talk bitch, right?
37:01
And so I'm I'm noticing that this guy were you.
37:04
Bitching about Mitchell we. Of course we were.
37:05
Of course you were. You were right.
37:07
You're a bitch about. I need to text the chef and see
37:10
what that. Name is oh this is, this is the
37:12
kicker. There was no name and no phone
37:14
number, right? So there was no name, no phone
37:17
number. They were there for almost 2
37:18
hours and I was watching them once.
37:19
I picked up on the fact that they seemed very interested in
37:21
our conversation. I'm watching them and I'm
37:24
looking at their phone and it's nothing but food pictures that
37:27
he's scrolling through. And I'm like, that's a lot of
37:29
food pictures for a non chef, right, 'cause he might have been
37:32
a chef, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't.
37:33
And then when he was leaving, maybe he's listening to this
37:37
because I noticed him try and take a photograph of me and
37:41
Junior. And I looked at him.
37:43
Yeah, like I caught it on the corner of my eye and I glanced
37:45
and then he quickly Oh, no, I'm just, I'm just taking a video of
37:48
the restaurant. But I was like, who was this
37:50
guy? So I'm I'm almost certain it was
37:52
a Michelin inspector. But anyway, with Michelin coming
37:55
to Texas, what are your predictions that you feel
37:59
comfortable? OK.
38:01
Cool. First and foremost, as someone
38:04
who's been a chef in Texas for 30 years and I am still running
38:10
a restaurant, right? Like I am still in it.
38:13
I could not be more excited that Texas is finally, I am one of
38:17
the I am one of the naysayers for me because because I wasn't
38:20
in Dallas and I spent a little time in Houston, but I'm one of
38:23
the naysayers who was like, Texas will never get a Michelin
38:28
recognition. We'll never have Michelin
38:29
inspectors because they we don't have that not only do not have
38:33
that status, we really don't have that statue of restaurant.
38:35
For the most part. It's a, it's a of, of the 11,000
38:40
restaurants in Austin and the 27,000 restaurants in Houston
38:44
and the, you know, etcetera, etcetera are the four largest,
38:47
five largest cities in Texas. The percentage of restaurants
38:52
that would even hit that radar I think are much, much, much lower
38:57
than anybody thinks. However, it is still really
39:01
exciting and it gives us an opportunity to think about that
39:05
and to step the game up. And I truly believe that.
39:07
And I think that the reward system, the award system should
39:12
be a system that inspires us to be better.
39:16
That's really the only way we should use it, right?
39:19
Because it exists and it it it brings back the focus to
39:24
restaurants on the merits rather than restaurants.
39:27
And I know that they are often very, very valuable for
39:29
business. And I appreciate what the some
39:32
of the influencers do for different businesses in our
39:35
society, restaurants included. But it brings it back to a
39:38
different merit base that I think is important that I think
39:41
we've really, really gotten away from.
39:44
And I am really looking forward to seeing what some of the
39:47
recognition is. I heard you say it's, it's,
39:51
it's, it's, it's forever on Instagram.
39:52
So I, oh, no, it was on stories. It's not forever on Instagram.
39:56
I heard you say that a lot of feelings are going to be heard
39:58
that there's a probably a much smaller percentage of
40:01
restaurants we recognize and we're thinking that we'll be.
40:03
And I do agree with that. I think that, and it's funny,
40:06
the day that that news came out, I mean, my inbox on my social
40:10
media, my text messages were blowing up.
40:12
Well, how do you feel about this?
40:13
How do you feel about this? Because I have been a chef in
40:15
Austin for a really long time. So I think people are curious.
40:18
How I feel and I I I gave them the sentiments that I just
40:21
shared with you, but I said similar things like y'all I I
40:25
don't think it's getting people are saying the influencer lists.
40:27
I think these restaurants, these Michelin, Michelin people are
40:30
mispronouncing Michelin are going to pick these restaurants
40:33
as the best restaurant may mean like fucking.
40:35
These guys will for sure get 3. Yeah, like come on.
40:39
Right. But it like, it further
40:41
emphasizes the complete disconnect of what food media is
40:45
today versus what it has been for 100 for, for generations,
40:49
right? Let's say hundreds of years.
40:50
That's an exaggeration, but for a long time, for decades.
40:53
And I'm excited about that because I think running a
40:57
restaurant, I think everybody who creates art and creates food
41:02
and tells stories through food deserves recognition and and
41:06
celebration. I think that there are specific
41:09
merits that some businesses, some monikers, we try to hit
41:13
that I love being recognized for, that not everyone can do or
41:16
not everyone will do, and I think that Michelin's going to
41:20
do that. It's going to check some of
41:21
those boxes and it's going to go back into these buildings that
41:23
are amazingly built for to be a restaurant.
41:26
The people who spend the time and resource on the right plate
41:30
Ware and the right class Ware and the right products and
41:33
running an energy efficient restaurant and having a
41:35
sustainable food program and having sustainable culture, all
41:39
of those come into play and that we get away from that a little
41:42
bit today. And the fact that Michelin has
41:44
kind of expanded the way that they recognize restaurants.
41:46
So it's no longer just 1-2 and three stars.
41:47
It's the green star, it's the Bib Gourmand.
41:49
So now there's there's multiple opportunities to give
41:52
recognition of, you know, very good restaurants without saying
41:56
that, hey, these are very good restaurants.
41:58
But this is like best in class, right?
42:00
That distinction. Now we can now we can recognize
42:02
and Michelin can recognize food trucks and stalls and which are
42:05
important and which these stories need to be told and I am
42:07
here for them, right? But it can also recognize like
42:10
this is a. Yeah, Yeah.
42:14
Do you think? I think that I think that's
42:15
important. And I know it's kind of an
42:16
unpopular opinion, No. And I think it's really, it's
42:19
really important to say. Do you think because Mexico City
42:22
Michelin Guide came out and then a Taco shop gets a star right?
42:26
Do you think that opens up the door for a BBQ spot in Texas?
42:32
Potentially. I don't potentially.
42:35
And I think that we should still look at restaurants as
42:38
restaurants too. I think it can coexist and I
42:41
think it needs to. And I think those merit systems
42:43
need to be really clear if they're going to exist or they
42:46
just, or just take them away and just everyone gets a, everyone
42:49
gets a bid, you know? Yeah, yeah.
42:52
Well, I, I think it'll be interesting because I think, you
42:54
know, what I had said on, on, on Instagram was that I think what
42:57
we're going to end up with is most likely a lot of hurt
42:59
feelings and bruised egos. Because I, I don't think there's
43:02
as many starred restaurants in Texas as people think.
43:05
In my opinion, I don't think there's any twos and I don't
43:08
think there's any threes. Actually, I take that back.
43:10
I think if there's a 2, there's a restaurant in Houston that I,
43:13
I'm not too familiar with, but I, I, I've seen enough photos of
43:17
the place to say, OK, that kind of looks like it could be a 2.
43:21
Outside of that, I think we got a lot of ones.
43:23
I think there are potentially a lot of great ones, a lot of bibs
43:28
and I will, I think that the chefs that I know in Texas who
43:33
are potentially hoping to get some recognition there, I don't
43:37
see a lot of bruised egos. No, I think that a lot of the
43:40
people, at least in our generation, kind of think about
43:42
it the same way they know. Yeah, I agree.
43:46
But there's, I think what I'm starting to realize, at least
43:49
this is maybe just me is I keep up with my friend group of
43:53
chefs. Yeah, we're in a bubble, Right.
43:54
Is that what you're gonna say? Yeah, something like that.
43:56
Well, and then I realized I'm at dinner with some friends the
43:59
other day and they're talking about this chef and that chef.
44:01
And I'm like, who are these people?
44:02
I've never heard of them. They're like, they used to be
44:03
this. So I used to be the sous chef of
44:05
someone who is the sous chef of someone.
44:07
And now the sous chef of me has a sous chef.
44:10
It was now someone, if that makes sense.
44:11
So like it's, it's almost 2 chef generations removed.
44:14
My, my, my former cooks are now executive chefs, if that makes
44:17
sense. And that means you're former
44:20
cooks are now executive chefs and Junior's former cooks and
44:23
Steven Pyle's former cooks are now executive chefs.
44:25
So when I look at that, it's like I don't know who they are.
44:26
With Meridian have gotten two stars.
44:28
Yeah, I don't know if they got 2, but I think I think Meridian
44:31
with Junior there probably would have gotten one.
44:33
Absolutely. One, yeah, I think zeroed out.
44:35
And if not, they're wrong. Yeah, they were wrong.
44:38
If they were, I don't know about today, I haven't been, but when
44:41
junior was there, I think potentially it could have.
44:43
It could have earned 2 stars. I think, I think, I think
44:46
Meridian would have gotten 1. I think Michley in San Antonio
44:48
gets one. I think right.
44:50
I don't want to curse them. I'm a knock on wood.
44:52
I think. I don't know Houston that well.
44:56
There's someone started in Houston I.
44:57
Believe, but I know Aaron and I know he knows how to get a star
45:00
absolutely right. So I would, I would, I would go.
45:02
At home, I hope that Hugo would get the recognition.
45:04
Yep, I think that such he could definitely get it.
45:09
In Austin, I don't know because I have a lot of friends here, so
45:11
I'm gonna like. It's hard.
45:13
Yeah, it's hard. I I can think of some places who
45:15
I think potentially should get the recognition that may not.
45:20
And I think, I think those chefs, I don't think their
45:24
eagles would be hurt. I think that they might just, I
45:28
don't want to say try harder. That's not that is very
45:30
dismissive of everyone's effort to run a fucking business every
45:33
day, which is so hard. But they would try different.
45:36
It's a hard business. This, this is a hard business to
45:40
be profitable, have longevity and to create a great
45:45
experience. You, you know this, right?
45:46
So you go into a restaurant when it opens, it's not the best.
45:49
You give it some time and it's like really good.
45:51
They've hit their stride and then they get very busy and then
45:54
you go back and it's not as good as it was like kind of in the
45:56
middle, right? Right now they're just, they're
45:58
just busy, right? They've turned over the best
46:00
staff has now gone on to do to do their own.
46:02
Things right, There's two. Chefs that lightning.
46:04
Lightning in a bottle, like we were talking about earlier.
46:07
And I and I, I think it's really interesting, like I'm retired
46:10
and I and I say that I have no desire to go back in the
46:12
kitchen, but for a Unicorn, I would.
46:15
And so I, I put that out there to say like, OK, if someone
46:17
would come to me and say, hey, we want to get a Michelin star,
46:20
do you want to jump back in? Yeah.
46:23
I don't. I don't want to do it for the
46:24
money. I'm at the point in my life
46:25
where it's just I want hero side quests.
46:27
That's it, right? I just want to do fun shit.
46:29
I would do that, but I think for someone to present that Unicorn,
46:33
it's like, man, those you're getting into this knowing that
46:36
you might not make any money because we got to get the best
46:38
China and we got to buy, you know, expensive stemware.
46:41
We got to hire a great song, a great, you know, dining room
46:44
manager, great pastry chef, great chef to cuisine, all this
46:47
other shit that goes into it. It's like, hey, and we might not
46:50
even get a star at the end of it.
46:51
Like we might put all this money into this and create this great
46:53
restaurant. No one may show up and we might
46:55
get zero stars. Yeah, you may not even have
46:56
someone come through the door, right?
46:58
And from what I understand, you know, Michelin is guaranteed to
47:02
come to Texas for the next three years and they may not come
47:05
again after that, right? So, you know, year one could be
47:11
like, hey y'all, we're here, you know, we're here.
47:15
This is the turn out. Year 2 could be very different.
47:18
If you have a class of chefs and restaurant tours and business
47:26
partners and you know everything involved who want that and who
47:29
will work for it. Like you said, you would love to
47:31
jump in and work for it. You have to have you for the
47:35
most part, if you're not hitting a 1-2 year one and you're
47:38
wanting to get it 1-2, you're going to work for it.
47:40
You're going to have to change the things that you do to get
47:42
it, and you've got to want, you've got to want to do that.
47:46
If you get a bib, right, that means they noticed you, right?
47:49
That means you could get one. If you OK, you got a bib, you're
47:52
on our radar, right? You get one and it's like that
47:56
carrot that's being dangled in front of a chef, like, hey, do
47:59
you want to push for two? Like do we want you talk to the
48:01
owners? Can we get more money?
48:03
Can we can we put some money into this?
48:05
I don't know. It's a it's a fun game and I'm
48:07
excited because there's never been a more exciting time to be
48:11
a chef in Texas. I feel them right now because
48:13
it's about to get really. Interesting it is, and there's a
48:15
lot. And like you said, there's so
48:16
many, so many generations that are coming up now that are so
48:19
good and they've learned so much.
48:21
A few things that one with Austin, I just feel like we're a
48:24
little bit shy of the service aspect.
48:27
And I think that's probably the food is there, the products are
48:30
there, a lot of the build outs and buildings and talents there.
48:33
It's the service and it's and it's the culture of Austin less
48:37
than it is about having someone who's not doing their job well.
48:40
It's just kind of the overall culture and that needs to step
48:42
up if that's what we want. And secondly, I just can't wait
48:46
to hear the term Michelin starred chef so much more.
48:49
Yeah. Oh, Michelin starred chef.
48:51
It's going to be on everyone's resume, right pretty soon.
48:53
So I have a question. So normally I I ask this
48:57
question towards the end and I've always asked it different,
49:00
but I'm going to ask you if you had a Mount Rushmore of pastry
49:03
chefs or can't include yourself. I can't include.
49:06
No, you can't. So Mount Rushmore for pastry
49:09
chefs, American for American pastry chefs.
49:12
Who are they? All right, they are Sam Mason,
49:16
they're Alex Stubach, they're Michael Iskness and the fourth's
49:23
hard. There's a bunch of different
49:25
people who I who would hit that spot for me.
49:28
I'm just going to go people that I looked up to in my generation
49:32
and that I was able to like connect with in some way through
49:35
whether it be through Twitter, through through, you know, back
49:40
then it was we were all exchanged.
49:42
That was kind of like the way that the door was blown off to
49:45
exchange information. A lot of it was through Twitter
49:48
and through food blogs like ideas and food and etcetera.
49:52
But I'm going to go Jordan Kahn. And one thing I really, really
49:55
appreciate about Jordan Kahn is, I mean, he's obviously so
49:58
incredibly creative and a technician, but his love for for
50:02
for savory and sweet, all of these pastries are actually
50:05
pretty known, maybe not as much Michael, but you know, Sam, Alex
50:11
and Jordan are all known for this, like real mind meld of, of
50:16
savory and sweet. That got me so excited about
50:20
restaurants, period. It was, I was excited about
50:23
Patriots, excited about baking. But when I learned all of this,
50:26
you know, 10 years in, I was just excited about restaurants
50:28
because I could see that there was so many possibilities and
50:32
how to create food. And that's when I started
50:33
Aducci. And it was, it was awesome.
50:36
Sticking on the Mount Rushmore theme, if you had a Mount
50:39
Rushmore breakfast cereals. OK.
50:41
Mount Rushmore of of breakfast cereals OK, they they could be
50:45
no longer an existence chef that's.
50:47
OK, OK. Golden Grahams, good choice is
50:51
definitely on there. Cocoa Pebbles is on there.
50:55
I'm going to go Cookie Crisp. OK.
51:00
And then probably just like plain old school frosted leaks.
51:04
Great. Where is the goat?
51:06
Where is the goat of Cinnamons? Where is the GOAT of Cinnamon
51:09
Toast Crunch? Touché have you seen the
51:12
Cinnamon Toast Crunch? True Toast.
51:14
No, it's good. Cereal, which I'm not going to
51:18
put on the list, but yeah, Golden Grahams is my Cinnamon
51:21
Toast Crunch, right? It's basically the same cereal
51:25
but without cinnamon. I mean, Cinnamon Toast Crunch
51:27
for me is like, you know which one?
51:29
I think it's highly underrated. Like when I was a kid, I used to
51:31
always look for it in the aisles, but I can never find it
51:34
right because I was, I grew up in the in, in, in, in El Paso.
51:37
And it's like we didn't get all the good shit right.
51:40
Was like there was Frankenberry, there was the chocolate one
51:44
Count Chocula, and then there was blueberry.
51:46
Blueberry. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
51:47
We couldn't ever find the Blueberry.
51:48
They had the best commercials. As a kid.
51:49
I was like, where is it? Apple Jacks I would put on mine
51:51
too. Oh, Apple Jacks.
51:52
I loved Apple Jacks, do they still make cookie crisps?
51:56
They do. Cookie crisps.
51:57
Yeah, yeah, I used to love that one.
51:58
And they had the best Saturday morning commercials for cereal,
52:00
right? It's like, fuck, I used.
52:02
To call the toys no more toys in boxes.
52:04
I mean, I think that's another like real turning point of our
52:06
society is when the toys stopped coming into.
52:09
Cereal boxes. We could.
52:09
We could probably fix most of the world problems with toys in
52:13
cereal boxes and Saturday morning cartoons, right?
52:16
That's that is that is the sound bite of this podcast.
52:18
Please. Yeah, like I just want to wake
52:21
up. I want to fucking eat my cold
52:22
bowl of cereal right with with milk for water if we were broke,
52:25
right? I eat dry cereal.
52:27
I was, I had a milk, I had a milk allergy, so.
52:30
And watch, watch. I mean, I don't remember what I
52:32
used to watch on Saturday. It was like Bugs Bunny cartoons.
52:34
And fuck, I mean, anything was good on Saturday mornings.
52:39
I'll tell you what I was. I remember once when I was a
52:41
kid, I had my mom call the TV station because Scooby-doo went
52:45
out of order. And so they, they, it was
52:47
supposed to be like the Part 2 of whatever Scooby it is.
52:50
Like it didn't happen. So mom, you got to call.
52:53
In retrospect, she probably didn't call the station like, Oh
52:55
yes, let me call them for you, like.
52:57
Yes, station manager, That's hilarious.
53:00
So sticking on the same greatest ever and if you had to list
53:05
greatest hip hop ever like so I want to know first let's start
53:09
with greatest hip hop artists all time.
53:12
Artists. And so this is singular artists
53:15
that are part of a different group.
53:16
Or you could have a group. You could have a group, so you
53:18
could have a group or an artist. OK, all time, all time.
53:22
So we're not breaking this into generation or?
53:24
Let's do generation then let's, let's say, let's say, we'll
53:28
we'll make it simple before 2000, after 2000, OK, Yeah.
53:33
Before 2000, we're going to have to go first and foremost De La
53:38
Soul and I almost want to say Native Tongues because they're
53:41
the family that created the Sound of Music that was so
53:45
incredible and so innovative. And it's that is Tri Paul Quest,
53:48
De La Soul and Black Sheep, which are three of my top
53:52
favorite hip hop artists. And there's 8 out nine albums
53:56
there there. There's more than 9 total, but
53:58
nine that I can think of that just kind of changed my life
54:01
between those three. And there's a little bit more of
54:03
the native Tug family, but those are like the top three.
54:05
So if I could cheat and put them all under one umbrella, then I
54:10
would put them. But if you had to get, if I had
54:12
to put, if I could meld the three of them to give it a super
54:15
score, they would be #1 Then after that, I'm going to have to
54:20
go as far as innovation and changing the genre.
54:23
And this is what I think of, I think of innovation and genre
54:26
changing, what I think of best, right?
54:28
For me, that's that those are my metrics, right?
54:30
That's the merit which I go by. And I'm going to say Wu Tang
54:33
because there are other amazing artists and even members
54:36
individually of Wu Tang that were inspired by other amazing
54:38
artists that weren't genre changing, but together, the
54:42
style of music and the, the even though it was a short gap, this
54:47
reincarnation of the Super group, because super groups
54:50
existed a little bit before that.
54:51
We had like leaders in the school and the some of these
54:52
other super groups. This was this was a genre
54:57
bending, innovative project of music that went on to be one of
55:02
the I would say everybody agrees one of the greatest projects hip
55:07
hop projects of all time. Now some of these other people
55:11
have been inspired by by other artists.
55:14
So it's not as much genre changing, but Nas just lyrically
55:18
and Flo and just putting together the stories in the way
55:23
that he does to me. Again, pre 2000, but he has a
55:27
lot of inspiration from some amazing rappers, Rockin, Big
55:29
Daddy Kane, things like that. Then I went to go over to the
55:32
West and again, genre changing, I'm going to go big, big macro
55:37
project bloat. In the project Bloat, there were
55:40
groups like CBE, Freestyle Fellowship and these other
55:45
groups. And then the other one on the
55:46
West Coast would be Hieroglyphics, and that was
55:48
like, you know, the Sapiens was a mischief.
55:52
These groups for me completely change the genre as well.
55:57
Now I've already hit 5 so I can't it's it's hard because I'm
56:04
also a Southern guy. So there's so much Southern rap,
56:08
and I'm going to go Texas rap first, which is different than
56:10
southern rap but inspired most of the Southern.
56:12
Rap got to say Scarface. Well, we got to say we got to
56:14
say, we got to say UGK and get a boys.
56:16
Get a boys. Right, and then we also which
56:20
which is a huge inspiration for groups like Outkast, Three 6
56:23
Mafia, etcetera, right, Outkasts again, genre bending, genre
56:28
changing innovation. I'm going to go post 2000.
56:33
This is controversial, man. But again, we're going drama
56:36
changing. You can say Drake I.
56:38
Don't know. I'm not going to say we're going
56:39
to go genre changing innovation. Love the art, not the artist.
56:44
I'm going to Kanye. I'm going to go M.
56:48
Yep. I'm going to go Kendrick J.
56:51
Cole. I don't know enough about hip
56:58
hop after 2000. Yeah, right.
57:03
I love. So how?
57:04
How about favorite instead of best?
57:05
I'm a huge, huge Donald Glover, Childish Gambino fan.
57:08
There you go. But I wouldn't say I wouldn't.
57:10
I wouldn't put him as GOAT. So for the people that listen to
57:15
this podcast, you got a lot of young chefs and cooks that are
57:17
looking for great advice. If you had a chef's PSA out
57:20
there, what would it be? I'm going to use a little bit of
57:27
a kitchen pun. Pair away all the fucking noise.
57:30
Pair away the $120.00 aprons, the need to have seven different
57:36
blades. Focus on the fundamentals,
57:39
right? Learn that.
57:41
Get to the point where you're rocking those aprons and you're
57:44
buying those blades. But first, focus, focus, focus
57:47
on the fundamentals. We need to go back to that.
57:49
It is so easy to get caught up in what everyone else is doing
57:51
and what everyone else has that you think you need it to, and
57:54
you lose focus on what you're there for.
57:57
If you, if you could look back on your career and you think
57:59
what's one thing that you learned later on in your career
58:02
about the industry or about yourself that a young cook right
58:06
now listening could benefit from?
58:08
What would you? What advice would you give them?
58:10
As a chef, one thing that I would have changed is I would
58:12
have eaten more and I would have listened more.
58:14
What do you mean eaten more? So I would have spent my time
58:18
and money rather than spending it on going out and spending it
58:22
like going out and drinking specifically or buying the
58:25
things that I didn't need. I would have spent it on going
58:28
and having meals in restaurants where there was a, there was not
58:32
only something to learn technique and artistically, but
58:35
there was a story to be told. And I would have listened to
58:37
that story and I would have been inspired by other people's
58:40
stories to find my own authentic voice and then to put that into
58:43
my art or food. And and then last question, if
58:48
you wanted to identify talent, you know, we've talked about
58:51
lightning in a bottle, How do you identify talent now like
58:53
what's what's something that you recognize and cooks early on
58:56
that says, OK, that that person is standing out in the kitchen?
59:00
First and foremost, it's how they walk.
59:02
You can see it in the walk. And that seems so silly to
59:05
somebody who doesn't really know our business, but I think you
59:07
understand what I mean. And it's purpose driven.
59:09
And you can see the purpose driven.
59:11
You can see the purpose drive when someone walks in your door.
59:13
And I know pretty quickly, and if that person continues to have
59:18
that purpose driven movement throughout the shift, I know
59:21
they're probably going to be good.
59:24
It's also just like that same mentality of like paring away
59:28
all the noise and just being there.
59:29
You have a notebook, you have a pin, You're on my list of
59:33
somebody who is there for purpose.
59:35
You can tell if you're hiring cooks or servers or carpenters
59:40
or tile workers. You can tell when someone is
59:43
purpose driven and when somebody possesses that, they're going to
59:46
do well. It's in the body language it's
59:49
in. It's in the language as well.
59:51
Chef, thank you. So it's great to see you as
59:53
always. Where can people find you?
59:56
You can find me at my restaurant most days.
59:59
Commodore here on 5th in Colorado in Austin TX.
1:00:01
You can find me online. I have a website
1:00:04
sheffieldspear.com and then on the main social media I use as
1:00:07
Instagram at Phillips Spear 1L2ES.
1:00:10
All right, Chef, good to see you.
1:00:11
Thanks so much. It was a great talk.
1:00:12
Thanks, Jeff. That was fun.
1:00:13
Yeah. Appreciate it.
1:00:14
Well, I hope you enjoyed the show.
1:00:15
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