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Helping Children Deal With Loss and Change · Raising Daughters

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Hey friends, doctor Tim Jordan back with you for a
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: brand new podcast. I noticed just the other day. I
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: think this is podcast number three hundred and ninety one,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: so it's a special number for you for your life.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I'm going to interview a children's book author today because
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: I received this book and I reviewed it, and you've
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: heard me talking on this podcast before about how I
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: think we don't do a good job in this culture
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: of teaching kids about their emotions and handling their emotions,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: and especially things like grief and loss. I think we
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: do just a terrible job. I don't think we're equipping
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: kids and so anyway, so I decided to invite this author,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: doctor Dale Atkinson. She's a licensed psychologist. She's an educator,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: she's a storyteller. She's a nature enthusiast. She has over
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: forty years of experience in work with kids and families,
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: counseling them, helping them manage stress and wellness and all
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: those kinds of things. She's the author of eight books
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: and lots of articles and articles in journals. She's a
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: featured speaker who lectures and leads seminars all over the world.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: She's appeared regularly on NBC's Today Show and CNN. So
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: this is a very special guest we have today. And
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: she's the author of a new book called The Turquoise Butterfly,
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: and she wanted to help kids and families explore the
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: complex emotions that come with transitions in life and with loss. So,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: first of all, thank you very much for joining us
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: here on families not families, first on raising daughters, families
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: versus my old radio show on raising Daughters.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: I love both names and they're really intered fined, But
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: thank you for having me. And I'm looking forward to
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: our conversation.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: And where are you speaking film? Where do you live?
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: I live in Old Greenwich, Connecticut, which is just about
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: an hour or so north of New York City, and
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: I'm right now sitting in my office which is above
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: the garage in the treetops. So I'm at I'm looking
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: at the camera, and beyond I'm looking at the at
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: the early spring treetops and it's beautiful, absolutely beautiful.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much. And your new children's book
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: is called The Turquoise Butterfly. It deals with a very
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: close relationship between a young girl and her grandma. It's
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: a very sweet story and then her grandma starts showing
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: signs of aging and eventually passes away. And so I'm
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: curious about what was your motivation for writing a children's
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: book about this issue of loss.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: I'm so glad you asked the question, because the motivation
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: for writing the book was not about writing a book
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: about loss. The motivation for writing the book was writing
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: about the relationship between an elder in his case of
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: grandmother and her granddaughter and to show the possibility of
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: how both can really grow together and learn from each other.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Because the little girl, whose name is Victoria, is relatively
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: anxious about things, and she's hesitant, and she's not as
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: bold as she would like to be, although she's very
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: curious and she loves life, but she's held back by
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: some of her concerns about what's going to be. She
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: likes to know all the details. And here she is
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: having a week a year with her very bold, very adventurous,
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: very grand grandmother. And how we learn the importance of
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: nurturing a young child, of being patient through their concerns
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: and through their hesitancies, and how we can kind of
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: apply different kinds of ways that we as the adults
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: can be encouraging and guide them without shaming them, without
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: criticizing them, without making them feel badly about the fact
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: that they're having an emotional response to that. So, as
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: I was writing the story, so well, there's a natural
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: arc here. You know. It takes place over three years,
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: and the grandmother is declining somewhat over the years, as
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: the little girl is becoming stronger and a little more bold.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: And the turquoise butterfly, which is the name of the book,
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: is a through theme because as we know, butterflies are
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: constantly changing. It's a symbol of metamorphosis, of growth, of
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: really struggle, you know, in the chrysalist stage, the most
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: struggle happens, and then with all this hard work, the
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: butterfly emerges. And so the butterfly theme is very prominent.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: And then what happens at the end is the little
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: girl really internalizes so much of what her grandmother has
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: shown her. I don't even say taught her, just modeled
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: for her and shown her with love, that she becomes
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: quite more confident and independent and goes to camp maybe
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: she'll come to your camp, and and she meets other
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: girls and she knows that she's going to be Okay.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: What happened in the course of the book. The book
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: is based on my mother, my late mother, whose name
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: is Sylvia, and the main character is great is Grandma Sylvia.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: And I wanted to show how love is eternal and
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: how we can internalize the spirit of a person, what
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: they've taught us, the stories they've taught us, the rituals,
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: the traditions, and that as sad as we are when
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: someone we love dies, we can still access the joy
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: of that connection, and we can still feel their presence
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: when we see someone who looks like them, or we
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: hear a song that reminds us of them, in this case,
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: when the little girl sees a butterfly, and so we
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: can hold those emotions at the same time. So I
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: didn't intend to write a book about loss and grief
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: and death, but it has been received in that way,
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: and I'm so happy and I'm so delighted because I
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: do appreciate what you said. We are not a society
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: that's comfortable talking about loss and death, particularly children. For
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: most kids, the first person they're going to lose is
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: a grandparent, and if they're not given the message of
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: something like this is a most wonderful moment that we're
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: sharing together. I am so happy to be with you
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: at this time. I'm so happy to play chess with you.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: I'm so happy to show you the wonders of the sea.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: You know, someday I'm not going to be here, and
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: I hope you'll remember this and you'll enjoy the memory
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: of what we shared. This is part of life, to
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: understand that there is birth, life, and death, and we
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: can really hold all of those emotions and not be
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: afraid when we talk to kids.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: We're talking with doctor Dale Atkins. She's the author of
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: a brand new children's book called The Turquoise Butterfly. I
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: think in this culture, we tend to, like you said,
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: not want to talk about feelings in general, much less loss, brief, loss, sadness, depression, anxiety.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: But I think we like to just get distracted from
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: it and get busy from it and medicate it and
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: label it instead of instead of giving kids the awareness
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: that this is part of life and there's things you
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: can do to learn to deal with it. So, when
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: you've worked with families and kids for a long time,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: how do you help kids learn to deal with emotions
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: like grief and like loss.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: Well, I try to help them feel safe first of all,
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: that they are okay talking about whatever feelings they have,
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: and if they can't talk about them, they can draw them,
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: we can move through them, we can do all kinds
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: of ways to express whatever that feeling is, because, particularly
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: around loss and grief, there aren't words. You know, we
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: always say there aren't words to express how I feel.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Yet we expect children to be able to articulate something
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: that we can't even describe fully because it's so complicated
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: and it's so layered, and the relationship is so much
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: a part of what we are feeling, the relationship that
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: we had, and how we build a relationship with the
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: person who has died, who is no longer here, and
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: what that means through memory. So what I try and
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: do first is to help them feel safe and to
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: let them know in every way I can that whatever
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: feeling they have is legitimate, that there's no criticism, there's
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: no judgment, there's nothing that's right or wrong. If you
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: feel a certain way, wait, you shouldn't feel that way,
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: or don't feel that way, or you know, why do
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: you feel that way? In a critical sense, you know,
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: I wonder why is it that you think you feel
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: that way is just a tonal change, but it opens
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: a door. So the first the first thing is I
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: like to provide a sense of safety where anything and
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: everything you feel is okay, so that we can explore it.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: And with children, particularly like with little Victoria in the book,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: So many children are aware of their tummy aches, or
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: their sweaty palms, or their headaches, or their you know,
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: their their tension and what do you think that means?
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: When does that happen? You know, when you feel this way,
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: this is what your body's telling you. So what if
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: we were to listen to your body? And what if
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: we could try and work with relaxing your body or
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: paying attention to it, and then we might be able
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: to rather than pushing it away or medicating it as
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: you said, or ignoring it, why don't we try and
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: see what that is, and then maybe we could name
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: it and give it, give it a home, and then
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: say what can we do about that in order to
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: explore what you're feeling is? And I find that that
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: opens a door, It opens a conversation. The little girl
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: is very frightened, and we see how her butterflies in
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: her tummy do all kinds of things. Sometimes they dance,
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: sometimes they flutter, sometimes they thump, sometimes they growl, and
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: there's a range of the ways our bodies tell us
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: what we're feeling. And then in the book, the grandmother,
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: who isn't feeling so terrific herself, sees that the little
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: girl is anxious and says, let's lie back. Let's in
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: this case, they were in the ocean. Let's see what happens.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: Let's just float back and spread our wings like a butterfly.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: Let's try and sing a song, a little mantra, a
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: little tune that can help us relax. So we're also
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: and I do this with my patients. I had to
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: give them alternative strategies for dealing with feelings that are uncomfortable,
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: and then they can kind of embrace those feelings as
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: they work through them.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think a big piece of I think what
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: you're saying is just normalizing it. I saw a girl
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: in my counseling practice several weeks ago, and she was
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: interested in coming to my summer camp, but she was
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: anxious and didn't know. So I was talking to just
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: her and I said, I said, what's your fear. She said,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: I'm worried that if I if I show up that
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: nobody will talk to me, that I won't be able
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: to make friends, And I said, they'll be They'll be
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: twenty four other middle school girls who are going to
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: arrive at the same time as you. How many of
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: them do you think are going to have the exact
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: same feeling? And she stopped and she smiled. She said,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: probably all of them. I said, yeah, it's a normal feeling.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: It's okay. I wouldn't I wouldn't have avoid camp because
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: of the feeling, because everybody will feel that, and you
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: have you know you'll be able to work through that.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: And she had some one who listened and who guided
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: her out of that, out of the fear, while still
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: recognizing the feeling is fine. And so often adults, because
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: of our own histories, because of what our fears are,
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: because of our experiences, we don't want to have those
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: We don't want to go to those places with our
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: kids because we think we have to fix it or
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: move them out of that feeling. We're too uncomfortable. If
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: they're uncomfortable, we want to protect them, and I think
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: the way to do that is to allow them to
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: be open so that we can be open. Yeah, you know,
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: I used to feel that way too, or my best
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: friend felt that way, and not until she went did
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: she really have a better experience. It wasn't great all
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: the time, but she learned how to deal with it
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: and just allowing kids to know that they're not weird
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: and that they can talk with other people. Often they
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: can't talk to their peers, and often they can't talk
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: to their parents. But as you know so well, I
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: love one of the things about your summer camp is
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: that you start the day in a circle. There's something
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: so sacred about a circle, and you start the day
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: talking about what's on your mind and in your heart.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: Imagine if we did that with our children each morning
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: before they went to school, and said, you know, to
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: try to give them a landing pad before they launch,
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: so that they can feel secure. They can say, I'm
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: a little concerned about this, or I'm really worried about that. Well,
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: let's talk about that. So you know, if this happens,
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: what might you do not solve it for them, help
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: them find the solution within themselves so they can feel
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: confident and build resilience. But we're all in a rush,
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: aren't we.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we certainly are. I was going to ask you,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: you've been working with kids and families for a while,
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: well actually not for what for a long time, and
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you've noticed any differences in the emotional
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: health of kids and mental health of kids in the
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: last thirty forty years.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: I truly have, And in the last fifteen years I've
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: really been fifteen to twenty years, but mostly fifteen. I've
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: noticed a lot more loneliness, a lot more fear of
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: going into groups that they don't really know, that they
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: don't know enough people in the group, anxiety, much more sadness.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: I've also noticed more children who want to talk about
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: things and parents who are willing to give them the
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: opportunity to go into therapy or to talk about their feelings.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: But with the children, I am noticing a lot more
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: loneliness and a lot more hesitancy, lack of confidence in
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: girls and boys. And then when they get into a
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: group or into a situation where they can problem solve
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: and they're encouraged to really find new ways to do
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: something or create something, imagine something, we see this change.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: But yes, I have seen that, and I will also
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: say that right now. The reason I wrote this other
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: book called dear Dear, is because I really want to
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: encourage children and their parents to be outdoors more and
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: to create outdoors more, and to be less tied to
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: their devices, which I feel are contributing to. I don't
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: think they're the sole cause, but I certainly think they
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: are contributing to what I said before. The other thing is,
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: I think kids really need to have people to listen
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: to them. And I think years ago things were a
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: bit slower. Doesn't mean they weren't easier, but they were
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: slower and people had a bit more time, There were less,
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: fewer distractions. You know, just let me let me take
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: this call first, let me let me just look at
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: my message or wild just one second, hold that thought.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: And with kids, as you know, interruptions like that will
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: shut them down. You know, you have to have space.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: You have to have a warm environment in which children
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: will feel safe enough to share a story. And you
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: know you don't get the story right away, you get
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: the essence of the story somewhere in between the lines.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: I've seen that I've seen that I.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Recorded a podcast. I think it may be publishing today maybe,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: but anyway, the title is everything I needed I really
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: needed to know I learned in the sandbox. Yes, I
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: think you're probably close to my generation. I think we're outside,
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: and not just a summer, but outside on our own,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: you know, choosing things, making choices. We had so much
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: more freedom and free time, and I think that's one
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: of the reasons why I think sometimes kids are lacking
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: some of the confidence about entering groups and socialist because
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: they're not having enough opportunities to be out and about.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: I agree with you one hundred percent. I listened to
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: one of your podcasts where you had a former military
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: person FBI person talk about girls in safety, and I
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: was so taken by one of the things that he
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: said that I totally agree with, which is we're so
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: overprotecting our children outdoors when the largest threats are online.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: And I'm so upset that we are making such a
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: big deal about not giving children the opportunities to be
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: in a problem solving mode outdoors. And I say outdoors
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: because in nature, which is the greatest teacher, I think,
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: and the greatest environment to realize that the world is
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: not just about you, and you are a part of
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: something so much larger that when you with a friend
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: or on your own, you know you're taking a walk,
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: let's say, and something literally blocks your path. What are
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: you going to do? How are you going to find
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: your way out of this situation? And what is a
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: creative way to do that? And just to stop and
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: to look and to ponder. These are the kinds of
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: things that so many of our kids are not exercising
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: right now and utilizing their senses fully, really listening, really
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: looking and paying attention because in a world that is
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: so scroll oriented and distraction oriented and so quick with
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: all of all of the family, everybody's scheduled, everybody's rushing.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: Children need space. They need time. We all do, but
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: particularly children. And the other reason I made the main
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: character in Turquoise Butterfly a grandmother is because I think
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: there's something very unique about an elder in a younger
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: person's life, because typically they will have more time, a
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: different perspective, much more patience, and an ability to not
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: let their own anxiety show when they need to become
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: for the child who is having a difficult time.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: And we don't care about their grades, we don't care
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: about their GPA, we don't care about their Do they
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: make the select super Cooper Scoopers soccer team. It's not
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: about that anymore. It's it's about just having time. But
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: we're talking with doctor Dale Atkins, who's a licensed psychologist
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: and she's been working with kids and families for a
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: long time, done a lot of speaking, she's published books,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: and she's also published a brand new book called The
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: Turquoise Butterfly, which we're talking about. One of the things
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: that I started this interview talking about how it's a
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: book dealing with a loss and grief, but really the
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: book is very uplifting in light. It's not like a
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: morose and one of the things I liked about it
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: the best was that, and you've been sort of touching
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: on it, is that we teach girls at our camp
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: to savor the moments instead of rushing through everything, to
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: stop and say it's a pretty sunset and moving on.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: It's like, let's just sit and look at it for
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: a while. And that's one of the things that I
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: think that grandmother does. I think parents can do more
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: with their kids, is to slow down and capture those moments.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Because you later on that became a very important piece
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: for this girl.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Yes, and I'm so glad you've mentioned that, because it's
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: it is capturing the moment and savoring it and also
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: whether it's a positive moment or a negative moment. And
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: I think that that's really important because when the little
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: girl is very concerned and her belly butterflies are fluttering,
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: she can take a moment and then figure out how
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: she feels and what they can do. But when it
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: is a grand moment like watching, you know, watching the
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: caterpillar become the chrystalis and then watching the crystalis hatch,
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: or being in the in the butterfly park before the
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: grandma got too nervous because they got lost. Just wondering
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: and wandering around and doing things together and really focusing.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: This is something that children need because they will see
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: things that we don't see, you know, when you read it.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: When you read a children's book with a child, one
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: of the things I always encourage parents to do is
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: ask your child what they see on the page. It's
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: less about the story and it's about what they see.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: And then, you know, even pre readers make up a story,
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: use the illustrations that are in the book, and tell
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: your own story based on what that child will bring
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: to you. And I believe that that is what we
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: all need more of, is time to reflect, but time
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: to appreciate, you know, being in this moment with that child,
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: so that immediately we turn on a distraction, we turn
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: on the we look at our phone, or in the car,
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: we turn on the radio, we listen. We're always doing
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: something else in addition to what we need to be doing.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: And sometimes just being in silence is a wonderful thing
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: to be with a child because in time they'll probably
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: notice something and then that will be what you're talking about.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: But if you're busy talking over things, you're not going
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: to notice. These are the practices I think that help
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: people be available to young children in ways that they need.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: And in the book, it is a happy book. It's
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: a very happy book because what we see is a
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: young person learning how to take care of herself and
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: also to be present with someone who is declining. And
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: what we know is that children who spend time with
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: older people become much more empathic, They become much more compassionate,
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: and that harries with them to their other relationships, and
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: you know, they learn how to be caregivers and they
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: learn to take care. This is something that I really
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: hope people will take away because we take care just
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: by paying attention, and you can have so much fun.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: You might walk a little slower, but you're having such
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: a great opportunity. In the book, after they have this
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: tumultuous event in the water, the grandmother's tired, and the
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: little girl says, well, you know this is also an adventure, right,
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: and because they're looking at the caterpillar, and everything can
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: be an adventure, everything can be something that is special
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: if we slow down and if we pay attention.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: I love the way at the end this little girl
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: has found a way to keep her her grandmother alive
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: in her life even though she's passed through butterfliesbos and
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: I think I think that's a good thing for all
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: of us. Before we close here, any any advice you've
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: given lots of suggestions to anything else based on your
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: works with kids, work with kids and families that you
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: would say would be an important thing for them to
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: carry forward.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: Remember that everything is temporary, and that as we go
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: through our life, our families, things change, we change. Sometimes
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: we hold on to things in ways that aren't healthy.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: You know, you used to be like this, and you
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: used to be like that. Rather than that, I think
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: what's often useful is say I'm so interested in what's
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: important to you now, or I see that you're I'm
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: so curious about why you're interested in this or what
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: that means to you. I don't know very much about it.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: So i'd like to know. Keeping a door open without
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: being critical is a very very important way to keep
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: communication lines open. And sometimes you need to scratch your
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: head and say, I don't know very much about this
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: and it's not interesting to me. Well, if your child
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: is interesting to you, I think it behooves us to
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: find a way to find out what it is that
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: speaks to your child about this thing or this interest,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: or this whatever it is, or these people. I think
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: that remembering that everything's temporary is important. Additionally, remembering what
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: our role is. And our role is first and foremost
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: to help keep our kids safe and to be a
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: role model of living a life that we feel we're
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: proud of. And everybody skips up and everybody falls down,
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: But really, how is the life we're living being observed
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: by our children and by the people around us? And
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: I think that's a really important thing. Because it's very
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: easy to tell children what to do, it's not so
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: easy to behave in a manner that we would like
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: them to emulate and to take from us something that
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: then fits them. I don't think we want to raise minimes,
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: but I think you have to be sure of what
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: your values are, what's your moral code umpus, And that's
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: our legacy. And children are watching all the time, and
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: they're listening all the time. So you know, if we
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: say don't use your device, but you're on your device
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: all the time, it's a very mixed message and it
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: doesn't sound.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: True, you know, And I love I love you what
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: you're saying too about it's so important to follow their lead.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: There's so much time where they're so supervised and we're
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: telling them what to do and all that, and there's
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: I think sometimes we don't spend enough time following their lead.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: We've been talking with doctor Dale Atkins. She's the author
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: of a brand new children's book called The Turquoise Butterfly.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: Did it just come out? Is that what you said?
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: This week?
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: It came It came out in June. Excuse me, it
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: came out in July. What's the matter of me that
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: two books have come out in six months. The Turquoise
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Butterfly Forgive Me came out on January sixth.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: Okay, today it's June, and last Tuesday, Dear Deer came out.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: So I'm a little bit confused as you because I'm
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: so excited to talk about both books. But I know
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: that what we're talking about with raising girls and raising
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: them to be independent and caring and boys too and
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: to really be able to feel comfortable with their emotional
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: lives is really what we are wanting to help parents
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: be able to do. And the other book is trying
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: to look at nature as a way to also help
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: kids feel good about themselves and create and be imaginative.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: So if people want to look for you and all
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: the things that you off from, how would they find you.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: They would find me by going to my website, and
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: that's www dot Doctor dale Atkins dot com. And doctor
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: is just d R, so it's d R D A
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: L E A t K S. And I have website
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: and most somewhat on Instagram and on Facebook. That's the
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: way they can reach me in my and through my email.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: And for those of you who are out walking or driving,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: please don't start texting.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Please don't.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: As always, as always, I'll put that link to that
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: website in my show notes to just go to my
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: website and that'll be there in the show notes. Thank
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: you so much for your time and thanks through all
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: you've been doing for kids for so long, and for
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: these books. It's really sweet. They're good, they're nice books.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: There'll be sweet books to read to your kids or grandkids.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: Thank you. It was a lovely, lovely opportunity to talk
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: with you, and I wish you all the best and
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: keep doing what you're doing helping everyone.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: That was a good conversation. I've talked to a couple
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: of authors recently who have who have books that have
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: been published which are children's books only because I think
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: that they were books that had good messages for parents,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: our grandparents about raising kids. But what's going on for kids?
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: So I hope it's it's interesting for y'all. Look at
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: my website again at www dot d R Tim Jordan
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: dot com. Now have show notes on there, and with
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: the show notes, I'll have her podcast on her podcast
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: her website link. Thank you so much for tuning in.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for stopping by each week. Each week.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. And I know lots of you
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: because I've heard from many of you do passes on
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: to your friends and people, and I really appreciate that
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: to get the word out. I'll be back with a
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: brand new episode in a week. Thank you so much
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: for stopping by.