Latest / WoT Spoilers / The Strength of This Place & Talk of Dragons - Towers of Midnight chapters 18 & 19 - EP555

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The Strength of This Place & Talk of Dragons - Towers of Midnight chapters 18 & 19 - EP555 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the weeed of time.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Spoilers, poodcast, you're doing chapters eighteen and nineteen today.
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: Which, yeah, we'll get better as we go on. It
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: starts out about as weak as it's going to be,
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: and then it escalates to a much cooler ending than
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: it starts at.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: I'm really happy that Paren at least gets some progression
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: in the dream world in this chapter, right, Like, we
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: keep seeing him go in and be like, I don't
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: know how to learn, and like, admittedly he relearns a
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: few things in this one, but he's actually making progress
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: for the first time, So I really like that.
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: Well, grant you that it is nice to see him
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: effectively retreading ground that we've already tread before instead of stalling.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: But still mm hmmmm, so I guess I should read
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: as soon.
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: The strength of this place and our chapter header is
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Hopper or the.
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: Wolf, definitely Hopper.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: And the strength of this place is of course, you
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: are the strength, right this. The strength of this place
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: reflects the strength in you, your will.
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: It's just a weave. Yeah, that's ultimately what this the
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: strength down to is, is just a weave.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: And I think that's why it's just a weave is
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: so effective is because there is so much build up
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: and working through in him, like discovering the world of dreams.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: I think, you know, as much as it's a little
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: slow and we're like, come on, let's get along with
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: it already, there is a point where it's like, oh,
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: you know, he does spend all this time naturally accepting
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: the world of dreams in a way that Agwayne always
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: saw it as a tool. He sees it as like
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: part of him and part of the wolf.
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: Well, because that's how Hopper teaches him to look at it. Right.
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: The wise ones have a very human centric, tool oriented
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: kind of approach, whereas parent learns it by being with Hopper,
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: who lives there full, it's a completely different approach.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Parrin ran through the darkness. Trails of watery mist brushed
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: his face and condensed in his beard. His mind was foggy, distant.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Where was he going? What was he doing? Why was
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: he running? He roared in charge, ripping through the veiled
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: darkness and bursting into open air. He took a deep
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: breath and landed on the top of a steep hill
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: covered with short, patchy grass with a ring of trees
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: at its base. The sky rumbled and churned with clouds
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: like a boiling pot of tar. He was in the
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: wolf dream. His body slumbered in the real world on
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: this hilltop with Fayeel. He smiled, breathing deeply. His problems
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: had not diminished. In fact, with the White Cloaks ultimatum,
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: they seemed magnified. But all was well with Fayeel. That
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: simple fact changed so much. With her at his side,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: he could do anything. He leaped down from the hillside
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: and crossed the open area where his army camped. They
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: had been here long enough that signs had appeared in
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: the wolf dream. Tents reflected the waking world, though their
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: flaps were in a different position each time he looked
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: at them. Cook Fire pits in the ground, ruts in
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: the pathways, occasional bits of refuse or discarded tools. Those
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: would pop into existence and then vanish. He moved quickly
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: through the camp, each step step taking him ten paces.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Once he might have found the lack of people in
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: the camp erie, but he was accustomed to the wolf dream.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Now this was natural.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: It's natural. Well, just because it natural doesn't mean it
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: won't kill you, Karen paren.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Right, I mean, the natural forest is deadly, right, very I.
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: Mean less so here in the Pacific Northwest than it
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: could be in Saale, Australia, but.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: You know, yeah, well we still have our dangers for sure.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: It did meet a bear once.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: And even just things like I mean the number of
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: people who drowned in the local rivers is very high.
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: Or die of hypothermia because they can't find their way
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: out of the woods and they're wearing cotton and it's
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: getting dark.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like it's it's it's very easy to get lost.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Then it's not so much the animals as just the
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: nature the world itself. The environment can be deadly to
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: get lost in.
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so anyway, less deadly than some woods, but still
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: deadly enough.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: Woods are deadly, Like there's a reason there's always dark,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: scary monsters living in the woods.
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, running into a bear in the woods is like, oh,
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: I dislike this, I will be leaving now.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Or large cats, right, I know, we don't have a
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: lot of those up here, but like large cats in
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: particular are scary cats.
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: I think, as far as I know, we've got plenty
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: of cats where I'm living, and yeah, they're scary because
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: they will actually stalk you in a way that a
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: bear won't a bear you will stumble into and go oh,
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: and then both of you will want to back away
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: from it, whereas a cat might literally stalk you for
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: food because you are close enough to deer sized.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: So isn't it crazy that the two scariest animals that
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: were just were like a pack of wolves and big cats.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: And we're like, oh, yeah, we domesticated those and brought
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: them into our house.
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: But we didn't domesticate lions or whatever, like no.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: But cats, yeah, you know, we made them small and
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: domesticated a breed of them. Yeah, they weren't rigging with wolves.
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: Little cats were little. But yeah, wolves is those dogs
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: are so scary. Even dogs are scary if they're in
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: a pack and they have a mind of their own,
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: you know, kind of made up outside of your human control.
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: Like dogs are scary wolves. How did we decide wolves
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: should be friends? I mean, I get it, but I
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: don't get it.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: We didn't they did they. I'm convinced they domesticated themselves
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: by eating our trash and just hanging out with us.
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: True, and I mean to a certain extent, cats I
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: think started the same deal because they were like, look
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: at this buffet of rodents that you have created by
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: storing grain grain, Like you really can't stop the cats
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: from showing up, you might as well make friends with them,
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: I guess.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: I guess. Yeah, it reminds it reminds me of Pern, right,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: because you have the dragon writers of Pern, where there's
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: these big wild dragons and then you have the small
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: domestication species that hangs out on people's shoulders.
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: But they're like related, except that's the opposite in Pern. Actually,
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: the little ones are the wild ones. And then they
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: did genetic editing to make the big ones out of
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: the little ones.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: That's true, Yeah, they did.
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: Technically, that's kind of a whole history the plot.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: But yes, the the big and the small, and but
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: they still like they still domesticate the wild ones.
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and the intelligence levels are very very different, right,
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: Like the little ones are definitely little intelligence compared to
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: the big ones which have big intelligence. Anyway, back to
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: the book, Yeah, so yeah, Parens vibe and thinking about
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: the present, thinking about the past, doing woolfy dream things.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: He's scouting too. He's he's going into the White Cloak
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: camp and.
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: He's scouting because Brandon Sanderson was apparently screaming this at
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: Robert Jordan throughout the entire fail plot.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: Shouldn't he have tried something like this when Fayel was kidnapped,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: he sent numerous scouts to Malden Light. He had understand
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: himself to marching off to find Fyela on his own,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: but he'd never visited the place in the Wolf Dream.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: Sanderson me, like, Jordan, why, yeah, Like it's just such
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: a plot hole. Why didn't he go?
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: And it's just like because and I think what Jordan
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: here is saying there is he's so obsessed with the
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: world of a man and his wife that he's completely
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: forgotten about the Wolf Dream and doesn't think about it
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: and doesn't use it as a tool.
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I just I hear little baby writer Sanderson
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: just screaming at Winter's Heart like and knife of Dreams,
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: just like why why aren't you doing it?
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: Then he got handed the pen and was like, I
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: will be addressing this.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like he's sending Ashamon to go scout, and it's like,
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: why aren't you doing it in the Wolf's Dream? Like see,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: if you can like follow in the Wolf Dream, you
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: can move faster than any Oshaman. They don't have to
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: exhaust themselves.
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: I guess you got to level up his intelligence from
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: negative one to zero.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: But it's I think it's a good plot point. I
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: think it's a good plot hole that Sanderson's pointing out, yes, right,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: and like he's hanging a lantern on it. Remember that
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: phrase that we brought up last time and saying, yes,
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: I see that this was a problem. I see that
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: this could be a plot hole and people could be like,
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: why didn't you think of that? And it's like, oh, well,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: you just have the character be like, oh, I should
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: have thought of that, and then you can move on.
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: It is very economical.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: Tell yeah, it's how you'd be like a lot of
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: plot holes, people like why didn't they just do this?
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: And you have your character be like, I didn't think
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: about it, because as an author, you didn't either.
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: Which I mean human error is a very real factor.
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: And he has some pretty one on the nose thoughts
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: about the white cloaks, like the white cloaks like things
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: neat and orderly and tidy, and that's what's wrong with
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: their worldview. And also I have to deal with them
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: before I can move on.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: It's all very black and white thinking. And yeah, all
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: that stuff.
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's all very labeled black and white on the page.
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: This is what is happening, and this is how parn
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: understands that there are shades of gray between black and
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: white extremes.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: One of the things he picks up is the signet
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: ring of the Lord Captain Commander aka Galad, and he
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: doesn't recognize it, but he memorizes it, and it's just like,
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: can we at what point is he gonna find out
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: who this fucker is? Right like?
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: And doesn't he bring that design to ball were and
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: Balwar doesn't know it? Which I'm just like, absolutely not.
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: Balwer would know every single symbol that was associated with
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: Galla di Madrid. Obviously, yeah, obviously, obviously he's way too
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: important to the White Cloaks. Back in the day he
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: did the research. He has a complete dossier on Gallad.
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: Do you think he doesn't know what his signet ring
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: looks like?
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: No?
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: No, no, no no.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: My biggest problem with his plotline is how long it
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: fucking takes paren to realize it's cold.
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: And I think it's all Sanderson screwing around on Ballwer.
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: Baalwer should have been what this should have been? It
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: this signet ring should have been the nail on the
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: coffin of Ballwer saying I know who this is, all right,
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: So now we interact with Hopper, and Hopper teaches Paren
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: the first actual lesson that Paren has learned in the wolfstream.
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: On purpose.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: Ever, I think, oh, and you are here too strongly, right.
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: This is the art of following, the art of being
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: able to track someone when they change locations. This is
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: very important in his fights with Slayer, right, being able
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: to hop location is vital to being able to deal
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: with the Hunter like Slayer.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Well, and it's the real moment where the tables turn
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: in their fight, right, because it's the first time. Yeah,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: Parent gets the upper hand sometimes, but Slayer can always
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: flee if Parent gets the upper hand, right, and so
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: Paren has never been able to finish him off. He's
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: been able to fight, but he cannot follow. And so
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: this lesson of being able to follow Slayer when he flees,
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: which is something Slayer cannot do. Right.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: Slayer has a human sense of smell.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, right, and so, and there are other ways
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: to track somebody other than the smell from where they go.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: But that's how Paren does it.
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: He cannot imitate what Paren is doing. He has to
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: find some other way, and he's clearly not putting those
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: two dots together.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: And so that moment when Parent follows him for the
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: first time is the moment when Slayer essentially panics and
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Parent wins. So that like this lesson right here is
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: the moment where he gets to beat Slayer. It's a
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: level up, yeah, for sure. And so yeah, Hopper just
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: disappears a bunch of times and finally says like, gives
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: an image and says, follow here. This is what we're
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: trying to say. Yeah, so you know, and I guess
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: at this point he still hasn't figured out how to
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: follow with the scent, does he actually, because he just
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: follows the image. I'm not sure he ever actually gets
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: the scent. I think he's still working on that.
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: Well, he gets there eventually, but we have a classic
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: I can't teach you the skill because you have to
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: know it yourself sort of thing. Back and forth. Parent
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: picks up the smell thing eventually. I think you're right.
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: It doesn't happen here, but it's the beginning of that skill.
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: It takes him a while. He's sort of you know,
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: I have the tiger montages through developing the nuances of
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: the skill. But this is the inciting part of the lesson.
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: And then Hopper attempts to explain to him the whole
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: how to anchor yourself in the strength of this place
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: and how to modulate the strength of your connection to
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: this place, and he mistakenly identifies the two rivers as home,
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: and parent says, well, actually it's fy Ill and Hopper
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: sec fine, whatever works. I don't actually care, Like.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: Whatever your anchorir is. You find an anchor, right, whether
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: it's your home, whether it's a person like I don't.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: You're human, you figure it out right, But you need
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: an anchor, right.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: The point is you need Yeah, what's your core anchor
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: that will always bring you back to your body? Okay,
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: your wife? Great?
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: Awesome? And I like the idea of holding something fragile
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: very tightly, yeah, right, where you have to like grip
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: it really hard because you can't drop it and someone's
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: trying to get away from you. But if you crush it,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: you're going to destroy it, and so you have to
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: like you're here too strongly is basically you're gripping that
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: fragile egg too strongly. You're going to break it. But
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: you still have to like hold on really tightly to
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: that egg because Hopper is trying to knock it out
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: of your.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: Hands, right, right, exactly. It's a very very delicate balance
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: that you have to maintain through some pretty intense trials. Right.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: That's the real thing of this is it's not just
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: the act of holding it. It's the act of holding
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: it while being hit by a wall, while being buffeted
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: by storm winds, while fighting a nightmare, while dealing with
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: all of those things. He has to be able to
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: modulate it within that and that is going to be
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: a skill he literally has to montage because it's going
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: to take a long time to learn. He should have
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: been learning this books ago.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: Right in that moment he was there, he imagined solid
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: and real. He smelled the oats, the human air, alive
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: with the sense of dirt and light and fallen leaves.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: You know, he's able to lock himself down by being
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: in that place. And that repeats a bunch of times, right,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Like this there's some philosophy, And like, I do enjoy
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: this interaction between Hopper and Parent. I think this is
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: a good Like it's just a fun read, right, I
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: don't really have much to say about it other than like,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: I like the teacher pupil interaction that's going on here.
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I like the comment that he smells kind
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: of like Tam when Tam is training recruits, like the
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: older experienced battle leader being like, all right, you young pups
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: gather around. Here's how to not stick yourself with your
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: own sword, right, Like, there's a certain energy there in Hoppers,
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: and Hopper's an elder mentor, and you love to see it.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: And in the way that Paren is somewhat wolf, Hopper
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: has become somewhat human, right because he's learning to teach
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: the human way, which is explaining things and showing instead
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: of just oh well you already know this.
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: Let me remind you right right, using an image, because
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: smell is clearly not what's leaping to Parent's minds. Like, yeah,
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: Hopper's learning how to think like a human enough to
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: reach Paren where parent is at.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: And parent doesn't have the ancestral memories, right, These wolves
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: have these ancestral memories where they never have to learn
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: anything in the wolf dream because their ancestors knew it
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: and they have those memories, which.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: Weird, but okay, it's the whole concept of instinct, I guess.
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: And then the last event of this POV is a
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: flicker of a dream spike, just a flicker. It turns
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: on and then it turns off again. I assume that
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: this is Mordan chucking it into the dream and then
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: letting grand all retrieve it. But I'm interested in your thoughts.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: I think it's just being test it. I think that
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: this is just Slayer testing it out because they're in
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: he's biparent, it's a pretty small thing. He's just being like,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: oh it does this work? Yes? Or no? Right, like
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: can I turn it on?
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: Okay? Yeah, either way. It's clearly a test because it
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: flickers on for like a whole thirty seconds and then
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: goes off again, and when we see it next it's
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: in a different location. But yeah, this is yeah, this
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: is the does this thing work? Test? And Hopper is like, ooh,
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: that gives me a very vague bell of sense of foreboding.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: But anyway, I'm not sure about that.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: The Encyclopedia Watt is pretty firm that it's Slayer testing it,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: but I'm not sure if that's a statement he makes
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: later or if that's just an assumption, because they're in
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: the right area.
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's the simpler explanation either way, whoever's doing it.
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: It's clearly not the big install.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: This is just a test, and they didn't think like
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: just happen. You would either have to happen to be
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: making a gateway at that moment or paren happened to
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: be in the wolf stream to see it right. Both
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: of those things were pretty unlikely. Tabirin, it also is
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: he inside the bubble or outside of it? It doesn't
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: it's not exactly clear.
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: He doesn't back away far enough to see where the
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: curve goes. He's too close to it, and.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: He doesn't look up to see whether it's in the
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: sky or not until it disappears.
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: He says it extended up into the sky and distantly
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: to right and left, Like I think, he's just too
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: close and it looks like a flat plane. And so
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: then yeah, I'm ready to go to the next POV.
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: Which is a rare instance of a map in my book,
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: such a good map of the city and the city
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: of Maradon with the road to Chachin, the road to
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: bender ebon, the River Arnel, and the upper and lower
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: camp that is described to the north of the town
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: where Rhodal Ealda and his forces are currently being besieged.
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: It's very appreciated to have a map before a description
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: of a very geographically shaped POV.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: And it really does seem like they're basically on a
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: hill in front of the only entrance from the blight
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: into this area, right and so fortified. You have to
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: cross this hill, their fortified hill, and to get into
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: this area you have to climb up the front of
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: it and then down the back of it. And they're
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: basically camping on the back of the hill where they
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: can't be hit by arrows and fighting from the top
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: of it because the trolks have to climb up the
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: slope to get to the top, and so that's their
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: their elevated position.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. And it would be easier yet to actually
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: back up to the town, which has walls and all that,
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: but the people in the town won't let them in
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: because you're not legally here, which we know ultimately is
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: because there's actually dark Frends at the top of the
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: decision chain, but the current excuse is that you're hearing legally,
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: so we don't want you to defend us from literal monsters,
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: thank you, But he's just.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Like, I don't understand, why, why why are we not
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: being let in?
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and the answer is dark friend ery, dark ferns.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: It literally takes a man going trader in order to
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: have good people do the right thing, which is awkward.
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: But for now he's fighting on top of the hill
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: and the trolks are trying to get over the river
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: up the hill, down the hill into the town. Right
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: that's the pathway, and they're like choking the river with
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: their bodies. It's really nasty and hard, and they've been
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: fighting for days and days. People already have lifelong injuries,
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: Like we've got the one guy wandering around on a
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: peg leg that was amputated a few days ago. Right,
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: Like we're deep into the battle at this point. Things
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: are already kind of borderline desperate. And this is the
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: freshest we're going to see a Giralda for many, many chapters, and.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: This is he's got You've got healing, right, so you
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: can heal an amputated lamb, but you can't grow it right.
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: Right, You still have to get used to walking with
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: a peg leg in the middle of a war zone
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: and recover your physical energy from that healing as well.
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: It's it's tough, it's really desperate times. And again, this
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: is the least desperate they will be for many chapters.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: I mean a kind of head canon that the nine
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: level of healing has spread and so most of these
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: people are being healed without their energy being drained. That like,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: we've moved beyond that level of Ah.
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: No, now it's barely spread to the other Eyes to Die.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's very effectively gotten to the aschamon.
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: I mean, I don't, but because they're the Aschemon's healing
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: is mostly what Flynn figured out. I think, like whatever
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: tame passed along.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but wasn't that the because No, because remember Are
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: and Gar, Yeah, gave them hints, and he gave them
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: hints on how to do the healing without sucking out
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: the energy. So all their healing is to be gone.
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: It's not the rough battlefield stuff that the Eyes that
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: I have had for you.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Because they got it from Forsaken. Yeah.
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: Nope, that's a good point. That's okay, so you've got
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: that much, but you still have the psychological burden of
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: dealing with the fact that you have a peg leg.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: Now oh, totally of having lost a limb.
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean phantom limb, right, Like this's.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: And so they're being effective enough that the bad guys
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: have set up their siege equipment that they went for
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: the city to take out this fortified hill, which is
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: like a huge accomplishment because like a hill is not
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: you know, you're doing a lot of work if you're
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: able to stop them at a hill enough that they
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: have to break out the things that were designed for
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: city walls, right right, yeah, and so yeah, no, this
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: is Eteralda being an incredibly good general.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a great captain. You see it here. He's
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: forced them to stop and set up their siege equipment
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: preemptively with I mean, yeah, total numerical disadvantage and all that.
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: And yeah, they start getting pummeled with dead bodies, which
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: is a thing that people have done in the real
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: world for psychological and biological warfare reasons. And Ialda thinks
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: that that's what's happening here. He thinks to just demoralization
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: and damage, and it is, and it is. They are
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: definitely achieving demoralization and damage. But it only takes a
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: few volleys before they get used to it, and they're
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: not super worried about it. And then six times the
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: number of objects are following through the sky and they're
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: all trackcar and that was very stealthy, that was very clever.
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: But the bodies all open their wings up and start
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: singing death songs at you.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Scary, And there's a fair amount of being in Eydralda's
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: head before that moment. He thinks about how the Ashman
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: he pushed them too hard and now he has to
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: let them rest. And when he's the one necessary, he's
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: thinking about how I was retreating towards Ara Doomont from
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: the south and now I've been teleport north and I'm
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: retreating towards Arao Domon from the north.
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: And always retreating towards my homeland rough and.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Then yet more about the fact that like, oh, I
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: just wish I could fight in the city, but they're
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: not letting him in. What kind of idiots wouldn't let
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: me in? Dark friends?
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and he does the thing where he tries to
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: pre confidence by just being calm, which again it's one
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: of those great captain good leader kind of traits that
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: we see. So if you can project calm, then you
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: are doing your job as a leader at the tippity.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Top, and so yeah, he gets buried. He realizes just
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: a second too late before he can call out for
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: the archers that the drag car are coming down, and
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: he does that cool thing where he's yelling so loud
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: he can't hear them crooning, So then he like stabs them.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: You know, it's just very bad. So you know Borderlanders tactics, right, Like,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: he knows enough about dra car that he knows how
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: to fight them.
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: He's a very adaptable fighter. He's never fought a drag
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: car in his life, but he knows that noise overwhelm
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: is gonna really do him well, which that would be
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: my strategy to you. I tend to get loud, but
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: I'm just annoyed. So if I was ever in a
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: fight from my life, you can bet that wall of
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: sound will be one of the legendary actions that I am.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: Pulling, screaming if thop my lungs.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't need those vocal cords tamall.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Us sonic attack.
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and yeah, he thinks that rand al Thor had
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: better keep his damn promise to make it all better
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: at some point somehow.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: Right, because he's holding but he's holding a losing battle,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: right He's trying to extend it as long as he can.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: But this is an incredibly large number of draulics, more
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: than he can handle, no matter how clever he is,
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: so he needs that help. He's just trying to hold
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: until the help arrives.
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: It really reminds me of the Last stand of Medetherin.
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: It's the exact same energy. Hold for an hour, and
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: another and another for nine days they held, you know,
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: it's the exact same energy.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. I didn't notice that before.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: But that's really well done.
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: And in this case, you know, waiting for help is
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: not because you're being betrayed. It's not because the dragon
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: reborn is you know, screwing around. But it's still the
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: same level of you should have died a week ago,
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: and yet here you are still fighting. And when Ranch
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: shows up, he's appropriately in awe of it. But I
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: just feel like it does not get identified as a
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: parallel to the last stand of Menetherne nearly enough. I mean,
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: I choose to believe that Egeralda is, you know, a
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: rebirth of one of those generals from that struggle, because
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: why not?
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Why not? And I think that takes us to fail POV.
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Fayel actually communicates with Berylaine and the plot moves forward. God,
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: I love Sanderson. Sometimes we give him shit, but god,
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: I love this not because it's good, but just because
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: we needed it.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it had to happen since I mean, what when
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Berylaine said like, I will take him from you back
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: in like book what was that three or four?
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: Four? That's the opening of book four.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: And it's like, finally, let's get a resolution to that
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: fucking plot about time.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, sometimes his hand fistedness is hand fisted, and sometimes
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: it's like, thank you for the clarity.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: So fail's heading. She's like, I'm gonna go deal with Berline, right,
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: I just had my anniversary dinner with parn We woke up.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: I'm feeling relaxed. The air is cleared, The air is
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: cleared with between him and I want to take care
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: of this thing because I told him I.
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: Would, right right, So next day she is all refreshed
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: and she is able to remind herself, no, don't go
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: down the path of anger, don't get yourself wound up,
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: don't pick a fight. Picking a fight is going to
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: give you short term relief. You need a long term solutions. Right,
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: She's in the headspace where she can hold herself back
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: from picking a fight, and her solution is.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: I need Berline to come up with a solution, so
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: I need to manipulate her into that.
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: I mean, sometimes outsourcing is the correct answer. I love
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: her solution. It's like, I'm not smart enough for this,
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: but you are. It's just yeah, that's very smart. It's
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: really really smart. Is to know your strengths and to
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: know other people's strengths, and to be humpless. It's humble.
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: It's humility to say no, no, no, you got me
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: into this mess, you are going to be the one
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: to get me out.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: So Anura comes out of Berlaine's tent looking particularly chastened.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: And this is something where we've never really come down
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: on what's going on between Honora and Berlaine. We've never really,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: I don't think, definitively nailed what's going on between the
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: two of them.
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: I mean, there's a lot of room.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: It has something to do with the Prophet, right, yeah,
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: because like Honora was visiting the Prophet and Berline didn't
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: know about that and got pissed off when she found
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: out about it, and that's kind of what put Nonora
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: out of her favor. But then Nonora does this whole
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: thing later where she sacrifices herself to save glot Right,
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: and so there's this like is she in love with Berline?
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Seems maybe something's going on there, right.
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: There's something going on where Berline has not forgiven her yet,
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: and Honora is deeply personally affected by that refusal to
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: bring her back into the circle of trust. I think
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: she says something like, you know, she's broken it, she
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: has to mend it, very similar to have a GWayne
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: Chasen Swan right, and Anora seems to make multiple attempts
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: to reconcile that get rejected and rebuffed. And I like
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: the head canon of an unrequorded crush, but I think
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: we get left with very little canonical detail. We just
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: know that it hadn't happened in time for Honora to
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: choose anything other than burning herself out to try to
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: make it up to Berrely, Like that's how bad she
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: still felt in the doghouse when you know Golude was
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: there with the dying and all that.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm. I mean because she is gray, so she's
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: trying to. I feel like she's just trying to negotiate
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: and failing. She keeps trying to negotiate with crazy people.
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I mean, and there's absolutely every reason to
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: read it as just a professional friendship that is really intense.
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: But there's room there for Spicey your head canon if
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: you want.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, yeah, I don't know. That's that's the extent
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: of my speculation on what's going on there.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, whatever the thing is that's going on between them,
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: it is circling the drain and not actually resolving.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: And it ends up leading to her burning herself out.
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I mean in some ways, Golad can thank
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: her for not having this resolve, because it's not he
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: might have gotten left to die. So Fayoe goes in
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: is let into the camp. The guards have been told
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: to let her in and not give any guff and
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: she's like, yeah, you'd better not, And she goes and
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: talks to Berylin and I think before we get into
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: the conversation between them, I think it's just so interesting
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: despite the fact that Sanderson is a man, I think
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: that this is actually a really insightful little moment where
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: Faylle feels downright dingy in comparison to beryl Ain and
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: feels all ugly and the wrong proportions, and on and
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: on and on, because this is how people are, right,
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: This is just a thing people do. Is you look
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: at all of your flaws and what you admire about
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: other people, and you make ridiculous comparisons and consider yourself
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: to be ugly or whatever, and someone you know thinks
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: that you're incredibly beautiful. And that's just how people are.
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: But particularly in the context of powerful women dealing with
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: their power struggles. I mean not that I've ever been
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: a powerful woman in a power struggle, but I beg
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: to differ. I've heard enough women talk about their power
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: struggles in like corporate office settings and stuff to know
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: that this is a very real dynamic of just like
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: really comparing yourself to your detriment to some And like,
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: we know Faylle's gorgeous because we only ever see her
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: through parent's eyes, and he is, you know, completely bowled
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: over by her, and Beryline's only pretty when Fayoe's not around, right, Like,
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: there's no in our minds as readers, there's no real comparison.
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: There's the like mathematical perfection of Beryline, and there's the
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: organic beautifulness of Fioe. And to have Fayo be like
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: so uncertain about her physical appearance is just like that
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: feels very realistic. That feels very realistic. Women are taught
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: to do that to themselves, you know.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: File's the kind of actress that, if she was you know,
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: would get a natural role at a young age and
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: everyone be like, she's gorgeous, and then she could get
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: plastic surgery and you wouldn't recognize her, right, and you'd
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: be like, who is that? That's why yeel really fuck?
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: I didn't think like, oh well, I don't know, okay, weird.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: Right, because all of the unique asymmetries and distinctivenesses would
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: have been taken away, and that's what makes people beautiful.
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: Beryline is the kind of person who is too beautiful.
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: Her face is too symmetrical, right, it's eerie. That's why
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: her and God are so well matched is because they
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: are designer perfect in a way that is actually uncanny.
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: Whereas Fayil has like a big nose and a funny
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: laugh and you know, like real things mm hmmm.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: And she also understands parent right in a way that
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Beryline does not. Oh my god, she thinks of him,
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: She's like, oh yeah, he's just a normal Like essentially,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: she comes from a culture that is not a purity
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: culture and doesn't understand purity culture, and Paren, unfortunately, is
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: from the Two Rivers, where there is this purity culture
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: of like, you don't sleep with anyone outside your marriage.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: That's not just like a scandal, that's actually you know,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: then again England versus Italy, right, like how many like
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: how she is so Italian? Oh yeah, sex scandal whatever,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: you know, like look at what their politics have been like, right,
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: Mayana is so Italian and Two Rivers is so so
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: England than puritanical in a way that I mean, I'm
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: not a huge fan of. But you know that's Paren
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: can't lead with these rumors and he can't like the
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: people who are following him do not value him as
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: a leader because they see him making poor choices.
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: Though I do think it's funny contrasting that with Fayil's
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: own lecture to parent about how a bunch of Saldeian
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: rulers have overcome all kinds of different flaws. It's really
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: funny how Berylane throws almost the same spiel Right leaders
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: have overcome infidelities before. It's so close to the same argument.
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: It's a little different because the purity culture of the
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: two rivers is an extra confounding factor. But it's funny
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: how much it is close to identical arguments.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: But I think it's also like he's got enough problems,
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: we don't need any more.
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: Sure, sure, absolutely, And also it's not, as Fayl says,
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: it's an annoyance to them both, right, you were a
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: not even a third wheel. You're like, keep attaching yourself
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: like a piece of toilet paper on my shoe at
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: a festival, Like this is annoying. We're annoying. You're not
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: adding anything here. Like Berylaine, yeah, it does not get
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: parent in the sense that she's like, no, he was
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: encouraging me, and he was into me. And it's like, no,
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: he wasn't encouraging me.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: He depended on you.
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: He appreciated it when you stopped chasing him, which meant
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: that he was friendlier to you. But like Berylaie is
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: the kind of person who can't, I guess, see friendship
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: without there being an ulterior motive, which makes sense because
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: of the games she's had to play as the ruler
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: of my n you know, leading a bunch of nasty,
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: perverted old men from tier around, so that way she
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: can stay independent, right, But it's just she doesn't get parent.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: And the parallel of trying to lead from a place
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: of no power. When in Tear it was like, oh,
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: you're the small nation, but here it's like, well you're
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: not the wife.
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: And in both cases it's like, oh yeah, you're not
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: formally bonded to these so you have to act in
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: a very indirect way through rumors and you know, manipulation
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: rather than just saying what you want. And she's like,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: stop it, Like we're done with that, Like let's work together,
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: and like I can't deal with these rumors. And the
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: only way I can think of the deal with them
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: is to challenge you to a battle, Right, we fight,
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: I kill you. Yeah, I won't stop the rumors, but
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: at least everyone knows you're not sleeping with them anymore
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: if you're dead, And like, I don't want to do this,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: but that's all I can think of.
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: Right, And it's not just because she doesn't want to
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: risk the fight, is because she wants the mayanner army.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: She wants the allyship, right, She's like, no, I need
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: you as a piece of the army, but I need
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: you as a functional piece of the army, which you
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: are not while you're sticking a hole in the leadership
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: of the overall leader.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I Fiel didn't want her to go. The
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: disappearance of her troops would be a blow in the
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: face of that looming white Cloak army exactly.
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: She's like, I don't want to fight you, but that's
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: the only thing I can think of, So do your thing,
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: clever girl, and figure out a better solution.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: And she points out, like we are in a bad
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: situation because you kind of made a move thinking I
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: wouldn't come back from Marden and like Malden and like, yeah,
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: that was a good move, right. If if Fayale didn't
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: come back from Malden, Berline would have been set up
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: to take over as Paren's wife.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: Which would have gone well for the army, gone well
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: for the forces of Light in the last battle. Not
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: the worst backup plan.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: No, but not good for Parin or Berline.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: No, not good for the entire interim period. It's only
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: good in the eventublity that Fayale doesn't come back. It's
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: a terrible plan otherwise.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: Well, and I think also we have to like how
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: much would paren have without his home, without his anchor,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: he would have been useless. I think without fa Yale,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: like he would have fallen apart.
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: I don't think that the Barylaine home vibe in the
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: world of Dreams would have cut the mustard. I don't
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: think it would have worked, you know, I don't think
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: he would have had an anchor until I run me
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: odd if he had had second rate wife, second choice wife.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: And so yeah, then Fale says, well, you fix it,
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: and Berylaine says, well, we gotta be friends. It's the
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: only way we literally have to do the thing that
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: like no one would be like, well, if she slept
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: with them, they wouldn't be friends. There's no way. And
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: Fale's like, I don't want to be fucking friends with you,
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: and she's like, too bad, We're about to be besties.
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that kind of proves the point, right, right, Like
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: you're pissed at me in ways that are irreconcilable. But
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: if we fake it till we make it, it might
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: and you know, we're still going to formally denounce the
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: rumors because they're just rumors. Look at what good friends
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: we are.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: I would never and do you think she'd be friends
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: with me if I did? Right?
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: Like, right, It's funny because then they do end up
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: kind of becoming almost friends because they are in fact,
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: very similar people who could totally be friends. And the
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: only reason they're not friends is because of this power
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: struggle thing. And it's clever and funny and ergonomic on
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: the plot, and I like it as a solution.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: And clearly where Jordan was going from the beginning, right,
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: like the two birds sitting on parent Yeah, the prophecy
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff, right, Like, it's a
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: nice resolution to that prophecy where it's like, Okay, they're
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: working together to make and something we wanted so often
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: was like we want them to work together to manage
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: parents forces and have everything go well because they are
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: both have skills that work really well together.
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, And then Fagyel throws in the one last
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: requirement Also, you were going to find another man to
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: pay attention to Glot, which I think, honestly the way
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: that she reacts to Golot in the way Galado reacts
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: to her. Fayel didn't have to say that to make.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: It happen new but new, not at all.
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: It also makes sense that she puts it into the requirement.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Have they seen each other yet? I can't remember.
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: No, it's a real hilarious Disney kind of moment. When
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: it happens, you'll know it when you see it.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's it's a fun moment. I just didn't
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: remember if we podcasted about it yet. No.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: I think it's when they meet for the official trial,
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: like ink and stuff.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: And she's just like who's that? And he's like who's that?
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: Really funny.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: It feels very Shakespearean and that they both have like
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: these trusted aids that they're like, who's that person over there?
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: They and then there's like these star cross lovers because
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: they're on opposite sides of the army, and Beryline's like,
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: maybe we couldn't. It shouldn't have the whole like when
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: parents setting up to save them and not saying anything.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: She's like, please, don't I love him? He's so cute,
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: and parents like what are you talking about? I'm gonna
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: save him? Like shut up, Like I can thank them.
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: He's like I literally was not gonna break him. Yeah,
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: that's the end of that chapter. Should I read us
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: out of it?
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: Sure? Yeah, give us a little.
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: We would need to be seen as friends, Barelyne explained,
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: fighting being at odds, this will fuel the rumor, but
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: if we are seen spending time with one another, it
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: will disarm them. That mixed with a formal renunciation on
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: my part of the rumors, will likely be enough. Fayle
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: sat down in the chair she had been using earlier friends.
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: She detested this woman. It would have to be a
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: believable act, Beroline said, rising and walking over to the
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: serving stand at the corner of the tent. She poured
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: herself some chilled wine. Only that would work. You'll find
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: another man as well, Fayel said, someone you can give
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: your attentions to for a time, at least to prove
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: that you're not interested in parent. Berline raised the cup. Yes,
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: she said, I suspect that would help too. Can you
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: put on such an act, Faylee, nibashir Tebara. You believed
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: I was ready to kill you over this, didn't you?
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: Faylee thought, I promise it. Beryline paused wine cup halfway
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: to her lips, then she smiled and drank. We shall see, then,
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: she said, lowering the cup. What comes of this? Go
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: get yourself a fuck boy for a little bit.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: I love how she trains. She's like, well, the White
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: Cloaks would be a really good asset to.
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: Have for my n That feels like, really our enemy,
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: that's who you pick.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: It's so funny, And I can see the White Cloaks
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: like making my EN their their headquarters. They're pretty small group.
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: Why not my EN is really looking for any kind
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: of allies they can get. I mean, if there's anyone
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: who could make the argument that it's okay to Operation
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: paper clip a bunch of terrorists long term. Someone in
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: the discord was like, I can't believe you want to
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: Operation paper Clip the White Cloaks. It's like, well, I mean,
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: is it really Operation paper Clip if you just put
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: them as cannon fodder?
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Sorry, what's explain?
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: It's not like we're taking their best and brightest.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: Explain Operation paper Clip.
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: Oh, it's where we took a bunch of Nazi scientists
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: into our space program. Mmmm in the aftermath of World
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: War Two? That one, okay, Yeah, the von Braun of
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: at all.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: That's basically what a lot is doing with paren.
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we were, well, we were making that argument that
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: it would make so much sense to like fold them
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: in dah da da, And I forget who were in
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: what channel, so I can't check. But uh someone was like,
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: I can't believe you want to operation paper clips the
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: white cloaks. I mean, but it's they're not rocket scientists.
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: They're cannon fodder.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: It's different, right, we want to put them on the
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: front line of the last back.
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: Not on the frontier of science. Yeah, but uh yeah,
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: I could see my n being like, no, I can
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: fix him and his organization.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Right, And then the next chapter we get to
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: talk about dragons and not the dragons reborn because this
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: is a Matt chapter, not a despite the title being
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: talk of dragons, it's not a Rand chapter. It's a
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: Matt chapter because it's the cannons that were setting up.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: And of course we have the dice, which is Matt's symbol. Yep,
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: it really is. Man, we just were they're throwing like, oh,
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: this is a Matt chapter. Matt symbol parent chapter, parent symbol,
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: Rand chapter Rand symbol. I feel like that the headers
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: used to like talk to something more subtle.
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: Subtle is not in Sanderson's vocabulary.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're right, because I.
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: Don't know if he was at all involved in these choices.
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: But subtle is not in deep publishing industry's vocabulary at
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: this point.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: So I would have liked to see more headers, I
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: think for the last books, because I feel like they
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: were they were creating more like there was a set
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: they kept adding more chapter headers.
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: Another set for the last three books would have been nice.
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: Another crop of like I don't know thirteen would have
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: been pretty cool.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: But yeah, good idea, good idea. But yeah, we're gonna
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: go right into the Matt chapter talk Dragons, I'll read
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: a sad Matt tugged on a sturdy brown coat. The
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: buttons were brass, but other than that, it was free
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: of ornamentation, made of thick wool. It had a few
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: holes from arrows that really should have killed him. One
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: of the holes had a blood stain around it, but
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: that had mostly been washed out. It was a nice coat.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: He would have paid a good coin for a coat
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: like this one. When he lived back into the Two Rivers,
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: he rubbed his face, looking in the mirror of his
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: new tent. He had shaved off that bloody beard. Finally
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: had a parent manage that bloody itching. The man must
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: have sand paper for skin. Well, Matt would find another
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: way to disguise himself when needed. He had nicked himself
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: a few times while shaving, but it was not as
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: if he had forgotten how to take care of himself.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: He did not need a man servant to do what
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: he could manage on his own. Nodding to himself, he
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: pulled on his hat and grabbed his Ashendar eye from
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: the corner of the tent. The ravens on the blade
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: seemed to perch excitedly anticipation of battles to come. Bloody right,
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: you do, Matt said, resting the Ashendary on his shoulder.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: As he walked out of the tent, he grabbed his
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: pack and slung it over his other shoulder. Starting tonight
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: he would be spending nights in the city. I don't
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: think there's anything. It was not a real good stobbing
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: spot on that one.
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: Agreed, that was where I had sketched out the reading
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: might be so.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's wearing his coat. The coat becomes so, I
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: was saying, I really like this chapter. I feel like
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: this is where Sanderson actually nailed some mat attitude right,
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: this whole thing with the coat where he's like, I'm
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: gonna put on a shitty ass coat with holes in
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: it and blood stains and it's a rough roll, and
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go see the queen because like I'm defying
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: her kind of like with the letter, right, and I'm
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: showing her that I don't care that she's nobility and
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: that I'm nobility, which I'm not. But the more and
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: more closer he gets the actual meeting, the more he goesh,
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: I probably should have worn a nice coat.
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: And the more it itches.
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: The more itches, and it's like not in good shape.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: And he's like, oh, because he is a noble, that's
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: the whole point. Like he's saying he's not, but he
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: totally wears nice and he's like, I wish I had
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: a little lace on here, and I wish it. And
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: it's like, dude, just just wear the nice coat. You're
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: fucking noble, you're rich, you have troops. Get over it.
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you're used to nice things. People expect nice things
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: of you. You can afford nice things. You have nice
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: things already in your closet. Yeah, now this to me
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: feels much more like the Matt I was expecting. It's
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: still the mat we've always known, because he's still grumbling
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: about the same things, but this is no women are
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: like goats. You know. This is him yea, yeah, progressively.
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: And it's also like Sanderson doing a good job of
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: using a prop to tell a story layered underneath what's
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: actually happening, Like verbally, he's really struggled with that in
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: the prior volumes, but here he's actually doing it pretty effectively.
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: As the coat gets more uncomfortable and Matt gets more
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: second guessie about it in the back of his mind
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: as his conversations are going on, it's very very good.
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: I think I totally agree with you about it.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: So we get a little recap the golms in the area.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: There's a bunch of mercenaries in the area who say
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: they're who showed up after the battle was done. He's like, yeah,
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: they're not very loyal, but whatever. Like this is a
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: real powder keg with all these mercenaries here.
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: Tempers are running hot and no one knows what we're
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: pointing at next.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: But they become part of the last battle, right, This
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: is all fighting forces for the last battle where and
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: I think this is a moment, isn't where They're like,
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: we're not going to fight unless we get paid. And
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: he's like, it's last bloody battle. You're gonna fight or
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: you're gonna die, and that sort of is the end
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: of that.
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, they're congregating for the last battle. They just
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: don't know that yet. Nobody knows that yet. Only the
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: pattern itself knows that. Yet everyone else thinks that there's
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: something else more mundane going on.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: And then the interaction with Oliver. So Oliver has heard
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: about the rescue of Moraine.
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: They've just been talking about it in front of him,
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: like as though children have no ears or whatever.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: Despite the size of his ears, they.
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: Always comment on how bake his ears are.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: Right, And then you know, and Oliver is, of course
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: karsaing and you know who taught you that language? And
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: then he goes, yeah, this is important. I'm like yeah,
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: because Matt's the one who taught them, right.
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Oliver looks at him like he's bonkers because Matt
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: I learned to swear from you. Obviously, surely you're asking
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: this rhetorically, and we don't have time for rhetorical questions.
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: We got a plan, dude, right, because Oliver is determined
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: to be part of heroic epic adventuring and this is
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: why we know that he's going to do a very
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: good guidle Caine impression with his entire life story arc
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: despite not being guid Ocaine.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: And how you know he is playing that game when
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: Matt wins, and there is some sort of relationship between
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: the game of Snakes and Foxes that he's playing over
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: and over and over again, right, and Matt rescuing Moraine. Right,
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: I feel like there has to be this this this
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: metaphysical connection where like, why is he playing the game
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: Moraine still captured and he keeps losing.
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: Right, and he literally wins when Matt wins. They win
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: at the same time. The only reason Oliver wins is
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: because Matt wins. It's like he's doing like a truth
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: teller kind of entangled thing.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: It feels very similar to Book two when rand is
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: fighting Shamael and the battles are linked to how they're
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: out there fight. Right.
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: Oliver is the battle on the ground, Matt is the
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: battle in the sky. Yeah, And as long as they're
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: not fighting at all, then yeah, the game will be unwinnable,
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: and that's why Alver is stuck on it because he's like,
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure I'm supposed to win. Part of me
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: knows that I'm supposed to.
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: Win at this right, right to save the world.
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: And then once he does, right, he wins on the
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: eve of Camlin going down in flames. Right, so then
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: his life is nothing but rushing towards the last battle
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: and surviving the last battle and blowing the horn, and
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: all of that happens in rapid back to back succession
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: immediately after he wins the game, So he's never going
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: back to his childhood and playing that game ever again. Right,
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: Like that was the last game he needed to play.
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: He's done now he will be good for the rest
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: of his life, at least until he has a little
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: psych kiko he needs to teach a game or something.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: And like when they say this game is unwinnable, I
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: think it's one of those games where, like you have
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: to roll a natural twenty so many times in a
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: row to win it, or whatever that number happens to be,
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: whether it's a natural twenty or not, where it's like
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: there is a path, oh, there's always there, always is
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: a path to winning it if the dice roll correctly.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: But the odds are so slim of that ever happening.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: You could play, you know, one hundred million times to
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: win once and so like. But again that goes with
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: Matt's luck, right, and Matt's luck is linked to the
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: winning of the board and all that kind of stuff.
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: Right, But it's even harder than rolling one hundred twenties
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: in a row because you have to know when actually
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: in eighteen was what you need or whatever? Right, Like,
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: it's just so if you know, you could figure it
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: out technically, but how right, Like, they've set the conditions
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: so that way you're forbidden that information unless you have, yeah,
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: Matt's ability to just trust. But yeah, it is. There
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: are rules, right, the thin whatever is going on with them,
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: the finner on the lawful axis, right, you have to
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: follow the rules. They're like gin or demons or whatever. Right,
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: they have very specific rules and if you can outlawyer them,
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: then you win.
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: So now we're on the path to go visit a lane, right, Matt,
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: that's what Matt. He's got the invitation and so he's
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: taking Tom with him.
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: And Mness and like fifty red arms. Yeah, oh, and
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: also Oliver has been telling everyone who he's close to
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: about the plan, right, well, just people we trust, just
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: some red arms. And Matt's like, oh my god. First
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: of all, I want these plans to be secret. Second
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: of all, I don't want people thinking I'm doing hero
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: shit awkward. I don't like that heroes hate being called heroes.
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: It's a whole thing, it's a whole theme in these books.
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: So it's cute.
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: And I love that Tom has then dressed to the
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: nines for his return to Camlin. He's now he's no
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: longer gleam In. He's a court Bard again, and he
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: stays that court Bard for the rest of the series.
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he has no reason to go back into Gleaman
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: mode for the rest of the series. He is a
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: barred now. No, he does go back into his gleam
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: In mode to go rescue Moraine because he wants to
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: look the same to Moraine. He wants to be dressed
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: the same as when they met at the beginning of
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: the series or something like that.
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: Is he in? I forget what he's wearing in the
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: last battle.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: I don't.
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: I don't think he's wearing his nicest cork clothes I
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: think he's wearing his more comfortable traveling clothes, which is
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: his Gleaman outfit, because it's a lot better for hiding
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: knives and sitting for long periods of time, right, right, right,
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: it's a ranger outfit as opposed to have a fancy
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: ballroom outfit. But yeah, I love the transformation from Gleaman
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: to Bard and just seeing that and be like, oh wow,
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: here's Tom like really unveiling his true level, you know.
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: And it is because it's always been a little bit
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: of like, oh, he's just a Gleaman and it's like, no,
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: he's not just a Gleaman, you know. And now he's
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: so kind of like he's no longer has that mask,
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: and he took that mask off of like yes, I'm
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: not I'm now he's not just a Gleaman. I think
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: he is a gleam in as well.
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's multi classed in barred and barred.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: And then there's a moment where Matt thinks about Lopin
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: and how he wouldn't have the shitty jacket of Flopin
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: and laid him out a proper outfit, and I think
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: there's a little bit of mourning right, that little bit
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: of like he shaved because he has to, but he's
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: not changing the jacket, like there's still a little bit
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: of morning lopein in there.
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: Agreed, Agreed, I had never thought of that until you
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: mentioned it last episode. But I totally think that this
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: is Matt's very emotionally immature but nonetheless real way of mourning.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: And then there's the what I would call Schrodinger's noble. Right,
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: So because Matt's like, I'm not a noble and Tomans
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: is like, uh, you're not a farmer. And Tom's like,
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: Mussen Musng is like the Shawn Chain right who worked
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: with Tuan. He's gonna say it called you Prince of
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: the Ravens, right, and prince means you are nobility. And
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: he's like, no, no, no, no, no, just because you marry
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: somebody doesn't mean you suddenly become bloody nobility. And then
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: this is one of my favorite changes, when Tom goes,
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: that's exactly how you become nobility, like and and he's like, well,
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: maybe it works different in Sean Chan, and they're like, no,
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: pretty sure, it works exactly the same in Sean Chan.
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: He's like, well until I talk to two on we
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: don't know for sure. She never said I was the
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: prince of the Ravens, so until we talk to her,
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: I'm not technically nobility.
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: He's such a funny man, and so I.
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: Really love his justification there of like you know, I
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: both mm am not nobility until we talk to two on,
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: until we look in the box.
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: But it's like so funny because he's like, just because
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: I'm married a noble doesn't mean I'm a noble. It's
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: like that is the only way to become a noble,
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: aside from being born as one or like raised by
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: decree like this, that's literally the definition of how that.
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: It's so funny, it's so deadpan, it's so hilarious, Like, yeah,
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: Sanderson is getting that so much better in this chapter
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: than he was before. We love to see that development
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: from him. And also this is the beginning of tillmanis
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: starting to have a sense of humor that we see
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: on the page. We're getting a little bit of that
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: starting to flower out.
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: And I've noticed that Talmanus is kind of substituted in
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: for Julian. Yeah, like it does feel like Julian got
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: bumped off the page and his lines got given to
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: Telmanus here, because you've got Matt and Telmanus making sorry
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: Tom and Tilmanus making fun of Matt as opposed to
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: normally you'd have Matt Jesus Christ. Normally you'd have Tom
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: and Julian making fun of Matt in this situation. Yeah, so,
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: but it does feel like these lines were originally Julian's
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: and got given to Telmanus and looks like you have
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: this sort of taciturn dry humor character who's adjacent to Matt,
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: and they're kind of the same character.
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: It's like a starter culture moving from the developed character
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: of Julin to the undeveloped container of Talmani's and be like,
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: all right, we want Talbani's to be a bit of
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: a dry humor sidekick, and we're gonna we're gonna take
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: some culture from a prior character and get it started.
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: And I think we're starting to see the ferment bubble
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: into the new medium here.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: I feel like on Andrawl is same right that they
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: wanted to write all of Andral's scenes with Logan. God
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: names are hard today Logan, but it was too much
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: of an original character and they couldn't make it Logan,
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: so they had to make it this other Andral character
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: who's maybe mentioned once or twice but isn't much of
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: a character. He's a blank slate. But yet he gets
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: this sort of black Tower leadership role that really should
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: have gone to Logane. So in the same way that, like,
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: I kind of think as Talmanus and Julian is one character,
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: Andrawl is kind of, you know, a Logane substitute.
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, except what tal Mona is. I think it's fine
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: to flesh him out this late date, whereas Andrel comes
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: out of nowhere where Logan deserved to get fleshed.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: Out more right, right, that's and that's not so much
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: sort of a with andrels. I just I wish that
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: Logan had gotten that fleshing out.
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not Andrew's fault that he was written, but
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: it does suck for Logan, right all right. So they
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: ride in with Matt thinking about his plans and his
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: worries about how hard it's going to be to get
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: a Lane to work with him, which is all moot
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: because she's super excited to work with him. There's a
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: crowd looking for the famous Lord Matt and probably mistaking
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: Telmani's for him. Which is fine. Legends fate to myth.
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: It starts still while the legend is alive, love that
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: he thinks about how the Palace of Camlin could work
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: as a bunker. It's not exactly the Stone of Tyr,
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: but he has such a military mind that he can
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: see that it's actually quite well fortified for a palace.
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: Fascinating that might come in handy later.
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: In reverse the talks are going to take it.
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: Jesus well, it could have been an asset. And then
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: we get to see Charles Guibond again. He's been around,
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: but this is the first time we've seen in this book.
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: It's been a long time.
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: Sure a quick question. He says. The conversation with the
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: Lane was going to be tough, but Matt had a
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: hidden card when he hoped would be enough to get
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: her to look past the expanse of Ludra's proposal. What's
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: that hidden card? I never was really sure what he's
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: referring to there. The medallion loan Uh yeah, okay, thank you.
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: That and it works. It tips her over the edge
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: when she's teetering on the fence. He pulls it out
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: and it works.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: Well, I think, what's so funny? Is like, we see
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: Tom observing and and Matt's like, oh, I tricked her
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: into it, And Tom's like, no, she took advantage of you,
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: like he She immediately saw the value of what you
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: were bringing and negotiated you down to a point where
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: she got something essentially for free, and she stole she
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: stole the cannons from you. Yeah, kind of entirely.
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you might be good at battle, but you and
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: House so good at business.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: No. No, And so that's Tom, and Tom's kind of giggling,
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: and Matt's like, whose side are you on? He's like,
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: I'm on my so like everybody's side like you, but
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: you got taken advantage of well, you got played.
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: He's on the side of his you know, intellectual ifnophysical
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: daughter winning over his emotional adopted son and making good
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: weapons in good hands for the last battle, Like I mean,
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: this is a win win for.
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: Humanity, totally, totally. Yeah. You know, he's proud of a
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: lane for absolutely. Voujie is saying he's proud of a lane,
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: and I think that's true, true, but you know, you
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: can't really you know, I think back to Tom of
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: the original books and how much he sacrificed even because
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: when Matt was corrupted by the dagger, Tom thought he
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: was suffering channeling sickness, you know. And so there was
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: a really point where Tom the point where Tom was
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: like willing to sacrifice himself for Matt because he thought
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: he was suffering in the same way that his cousin
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: nephew did.
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, also like he trained more Gaze in a
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: lot of the skills that Elaine then got trained by
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: more Gaze in, right, so he's seeing that like, oh, yeah, no,
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: I taught I taught her mom good, real good.
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: Don't forget. He also trained her quite a bit. Like
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: there was a lot of late conversations where they on
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: the road, They had a lot of political conversations. So
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: a lot of his his lessons actually were very helpful
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: as well to Elaine. She thinks about that like, yes,
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: all she learned from her mother, but also like Tom
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: knew quite a bit and was a very good person
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: to bounce ideas off of and have you know.
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: And Tom knows Matt's capacities and when he sees her
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: just handle him like a kitten, He's like, that's a girl.
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So we got guyon who you know, we
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: see as a very respectable you know, he's a young
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: leader who has come up with the ranks because he's
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: in the right place at the right time, and he's
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: a very loyal soldier to Elaine.
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: And he's going to be her third order. We don't
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: see it happen on page, but she's thinking about him
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: for a third order, and especially when she loses Burgita
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: and her other order is you know Rand, She's going
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: to need a warder. So it's going to be guybon.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: I always forget about that, yeah, yeah.
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: And also remember this is a fan character. Remember this
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: is the husband of a fan.
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: Oh I didn't know that, Guybond.
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: You're the one that did the research to tell us
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: that on an episode many episodes ago.
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, fair enough, I forgot, But yes, this is.
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: One of the fan names that we know of. Guy
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: Bond might be Elaine's talin for but I think he's
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: going to be less weird about it, right, right, right.
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: I think he's going to be a lot more forward
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: and Elaine's going to be like, yes, let's do this,
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: and it's going to be great, I think, without.
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: The talent war, without the love aspect of it. But
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: that loyal dedication.
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: There might be some love. I don't know, she's going
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: to need someone to sleep with. And you know Brynn
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: and more Gaze were sleeping together, So.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: Do you think she's not going to keep sleeping with
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: Rand she knows he's alive after the last battle.
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: Is he going to be around or is he going
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: to be off writing poetry on a mountaintop for fifty years?
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: Also there is Alvianda that's true. I think he's going
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: to be a non problematic version of talent. For whether
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: or not that's romantic, I don't know, but I think
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: he's going to be very loyal and you know he's
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: going to be Brent. He's going to be Brent to
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: be awesome and great, and so you know, seeing him
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: through Matt's eye is kind of fun because Matt immediately
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: assesses him is like decent. And then we have a
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: very fun interaction where Guybond runs through a whole bunch
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: of stories that are fading legend myth and he's like, hey, Matt,
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: how many of these wild things do you do? And
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: we can recognize every single one as being a thing
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: that happened, and Matt is, you know, doing a bad
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: job of deflecting. Shall we say, I really.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: Like it because it's it's again, it's it's Sanderson saying, Hey,
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: all these things that have happened to Matt, here's how
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: they get distorted. And then here's a step between what
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: happens to Matt and our stories of Odin and our
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: stories of these supernatural characters who actually go through these
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: sorts of crazy things. You know, absolutely, you know, hanging
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: for a tree for nine days? Did he hang from
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: the tree for nine days?
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: You know that's actually a bit of well, you know,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: that is a question.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: Was it nine days that they were down in there?
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: I think it was seven. I think it can't have
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: been nine days because they literally weren't down that line.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: I thought it was one day less than a week,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: which would have been nine. We're just thinking seven because
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: their weeks are different, like scenaris, right, I forget. I
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: forget as well.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: But also he physiologically can't have hung for nine days,
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: not outside of the of the doorway.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: No. No, But there is that moment, right, like they
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: both have a week does go by and they both
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: perceive it as a very short amount of time.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: That right, I put a lot of that travel on
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: him walking through.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, if normal time happened to Matt
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: and he was hung right afterwards, and he was dead
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: for nine days and Rand altered the pattern to bring
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: him back right, Like, there's that.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: I don't think that happened. I think he was only
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: out of the gateway for a little bit.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: I agree. I agree that like, yes, time passed different hanging.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: For quote unquote nine days because he was on the
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: other side of the gateway for the first few moments,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: I could believe that the doorway right, But yes, it
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 3: becomes nine days for the odin story alimate and it
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: is you know, to gain knowledge, that's what that's about.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: And Matt did indeed gain knowledge.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: Right hanging in with the treating acknowledge that you never
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: lose it, Dice, or it love and your spear never
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: misses his target. And he's like, well, I've never I've
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: definitely lost it love and my spirit has missed its
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: target for sure, But I don't lose it Dice.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And even with love and the spirit, he still
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: has better luck than most, so, you know, good enough
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: for the legend, mythologizing thing.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: It's also later when he throws the knife it loses
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: an eye and throws the knife and takes out a
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: tree ranch totally by accident. You know. It's like, oh, yeah,
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: your spear never does mixed because you can depend on
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: luck to guy it. Right. Yeah, they say you slew
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: one of the Forsaken. Not true, Matt says. And I
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: was trying to remember. He didn't kill any of the Forsaken, right,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: like Matt.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: Never He's been part of several concerted efforts to kill
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: a Forsaken that were successful. But you're right, he has
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: not actually taken down a Forsaken in any kind of
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: a one on one contact, not like Ninive or Moraine
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: has he know, right, right, But he has fought multiple
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: Forsaken and not died or at least been resurrected promptly
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 3: after being killed. And then the next one is that
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: you dueled the king of the Aele invaders in a
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: battle of honor.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, he killed kulandin.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: He killed Kuliden and he was not King of the
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: ael and it was not a battle of honor. It
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: was just a duel that happened in a battle.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: But king and Kara Khan are essentially equivalent statements for
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: the Wetlanders, right, and Kuland was claiming to be the
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: car Khan, which is the chief of chiefs, right, that
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: is king, and like it wasn't a duel of honor,
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: but it was an honorable battle. It was honorable fight
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: on the battlefield. So I mean, it's like it's very
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: small semantic differences in terms of what actually happened.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: And yeah, does that lead into legends of killing a
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: forsaken also maybe maybe not, but either way, yeah, that
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: did happen. And then guy says, well, that one at
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: least seems realistic, unlike, and Matt has to prod because
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: it's like it's a really embarrassing rumor to say you
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: believe in. But also it is, uh, you stepped into
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 3: death domain to challenge him and demand answer to your questions,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: and he gave you that spear you hold and foretold
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: to you your own death, which is like, yeah, that
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: basically happened.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: That basically yeah, you know, not death but snakes and foxes.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: And you didn't step into death domain. It was the
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: Finn's domain, and you did demand answers to your questions.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 3: They did give you the spear, and they didn't foretell
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 3: your death. But they did foretell your marriage and the
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 3: fact that you would be coming back to give up
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: an eyeball.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: They totally foretold those death which which depth you'll die twice.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: Okay, first of all, that would be plural, that would
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: be death's.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, deaths fine, but yeah, but like you know, all right,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: you will die and live again, right, Like that's that
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: you will die and live again. That is a foretelling
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: of his death, one hundred percent foretelling of his Death's fair,
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: that's fair. Not his final death, but a death.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 3: So yeah, it's it's just a very very well written
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: interaction where Matt's dodging the question badly and Guybond is
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: demonstrating how rumors fade to legend and I enjoy it
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 3: very much.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: It's a really well written section of for me. It
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: gets at the heart of what wheel of time is
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: in a lot of ways.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, eleven out of ten to Sanderson on that one.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: You got it.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: Yep, totally.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 3: So they're walking through the palace and Tom is the
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: center of attention, not Matt, because Tom is well, he's returning. Well,
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: a lot of them know who he is. It's not
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 3: just that he's dressed. He's returning and there's a lot
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 3: of and also he's doing his gleaming thing where everyone's
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: eyes are on him because he's just magnetic, right, but
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 3: he's good at that. The fact that he's returning in
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 3: full fig is definitely surprising a lot of the Palace staff.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: And you get Matt finally being like, burn me, I
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: should have worn something nicer. It's just fun.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So he walks in on a lane and immediately goes, damn,
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: she's gained some weight. I say something about that? Or
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: should I keep myself to myself? I don't know. It
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: seems like if you don't. And I like this line.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: Sometimes women got angry when you mentioned that they look different,
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: and sometimes they got angry if you did not notice.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: And I've like, I feel like that encapsulates so much
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: about a gender struggle that like is very real, right,
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: this idea that like, yeah, she wants you to notice
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: when she gets a haircut, she does not want you
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: to notice if you get fat or gain weight, sorry
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: to get fat whatever, you know, Like there's certain like
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: you don't want to. I don't want you to mention
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: that I have, like you know, a smear of makeup
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: or like bags under my eyes, right, don't mention that,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: Like I think it's things you can control versus things
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: you can't. I understand that there is a difference between
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: those two things, but I like that there's this like
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: what you look different? I mentioned it, like I don't
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: understand that there's different categories of looking different.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's definitely one of those like eye roll gender differences.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 3: But also it's so rooted in reality. Like it's so
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 3: rooted in reality. And I'm the kind of person who
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 3: will notice that you changed your hair about a week later.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 3: I'm really slow for whatever reason. And then suddenly after
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 3: a week of your hair being different, I'll go, wait,
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 3: did you change your hair? And they're like, yeah, a
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 3: week ago everyone already mentioned it, Like you are very
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 3: late to the game. That's that's always been my problem,
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 3: is I just noticed stuff so late. But yeah, the well,
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 3: how was I supposed to know which thing to mention? Is?
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 3: Also it echoes par and be like, well, I don't
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 3: know if a YO wants me to yell or not.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 3: And it's like this is not a business neckline, right,
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: like that whole thing. It's like the same thing here
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 3: is It's like Matt, obviously if she chooses a pretty
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: gown or a new hairstyle, you should say something. And
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 3: if she's gained some weight or looks like she might
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 3: have tripped and fallen down the stairs and has a
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 3: broken ankle, you don't need to mention those thanks, because
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 3: she didn't choose it. It's a very simple algorithm, actually,
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 3: But it totally makes sense for Matt to be like,
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 3: I don't know, it's so.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: Funny you don't mention, know when they get themselves into
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: a trap. That's definitely not Yeah.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 3: Also, he leaves Talmanis outside because he doesn't want to
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 3: be humiliated in front of him, but Tim Honis is
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 3: all but heard about it. It's this whole other, like
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 3: secondary thing.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: Oh I missed that entirely.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, He like tells tom Monus to wait outside, and
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: toil Monus looks crestfallen, and Matt says, Okay, I'll get
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 3: you a dinner invite. And at the end of the
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 3: chapter he says to Aline like, Okay, we can have
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 3: dinner later, but you have to invite Tamnas otherwise he'll
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 3: literally skin me alive and it will be bad. But
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 3: it's it's just it doesn't mean anything, really, Tom Honis
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 3: and Elaine have no real relationship or dynamic, but it's
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 3: just a funny dynamic.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: With Yeah, I don't really get that Matt.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 3: And Tom Honys or Tom Monis really want because Talmanis
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 3: wants the perks of Matt being a noble of higher rank.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 3: M Talmnus really wants all the perks of being attached
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: to someone who's a literal prince, and Matt is doing
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 3: everything possible to not take those perks until mos Like, dude,
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 3: we could get into the extra VIP suite, I get
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: free drinks. Why don't you want the free drinks?
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: Because I remember Van in the all into Elane right
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: like he had she charmed the shit out of him.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: But Tom Honis was with the other half of the
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: band of the Red Hand during that entire trip, right
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: he was. He was managing the band while Matt and
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: Vannon and a few others were off on this quest
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: to rescue Elaine in that group, so he didn't get
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: a chance to hang out with her, and he probably
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: heard all the stories from like Vannon and that group
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: of people about Elaine right right.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 3: Right, He's like, I want to be friends with the
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 3: Queen of vander That would be awesome, thank you, and
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 3: Matt's like, I don't, I don't, I don't know. It's
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 3: just a funny piece of their dynamic. But the really
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: cool thing is how Elaine has changed to the point
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: that she's a lot less formal now that she's queen.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 3: She runs up with all the enthusiasm and the hugging
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 3: and the excitement and the squeaing and is just way
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 3: less uptight. And Matt wonders why that is, And I
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 3: think it's the she's grown up into the role that
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 3: she was always expecting.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: She's not pretending to be She's.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 3: Not trying to prove herself as being worthy anymore. Now
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 3: she knows she's worthy because she's actually achieved it. She
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: doesn't have to prove anything. Now she has to do
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 3: the thing, and she's much more comfortable having achieved it
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 3: than she was when she was like uncertain, lying about herself,
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 3: new to the job, pretending to be ased to die. Right,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: She's not pretending anymore. She is queen full stop.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: It's the difference between my mom's queen and I'm the
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: daughter heir and I'm the daughter heir, yes, and or
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: I'm the queen now I'm the queen now, Yeah, yes, exactly,
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: But there was that moment of like, well, don't you
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: know who my parents are versus like, yeah, now I'm
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: in charge, right.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 3: Plus she's been holding on to that guilt about leaving
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 3: them behind in a boudar, and she had the letter
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 3: to let her know that they're okay, but she still
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 3: needs a good big bear hug from Tom to like
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 3: really let it all out and like actually believe that
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 3: they are in fact safe and she didn't abandon them
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 3: to their deaths.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because this is the bold wins right when that
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: got passed, that was the last time we've had a
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: whole you know, winter and summer. Almost six months to
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: a year since then, I think, long time, long time.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: And she never knew what happened to them for a
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: long time as well.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 3: So yeah, and Brigida wants to know about Oliver and
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 3: like it's just the reunion energy is very.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: Warm, and I like that she apologizes for not responding
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: right away. I'm sorry my Steward lumped you into the
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: wrong group. I didn't know you were there, you know,
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: Like there's an actual apology.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 3: Right, And Matt tries to brush it off and she's like, no, really,
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 3: it's embarrassing, like this is a profoundly not what I
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 3: meant to have happen, Like I've made that apology myself
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 3: so many times. I'm so sorry I forgot that I
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 3: had that email inbox Entirely. I wasn't blowing you off
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 3: like this has happened.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: I meant to respond to the text, and I got
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: busy and then I forgot about the text, and I'm
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: so sorry.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 3: Exactly, it went into my spam folder for no good reason,
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 3: and I had to search for it by name when
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 3: you texted me to ask about it, like I've made
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 3: this apology so many times. And then Matt says, I
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 3: really like your queen. I don't want to call you
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 3: your majesty. That's so weird, and she's like, well, yeah,
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 3: obviously not unless we're in public. And I guess that is.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 3: As TC travelers say, it's a good reason tell Bonus
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 3: wasn't there, because then it would have been more awkward
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 3: because that would have been borderline public, whereas this is
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 3: kind of a family reunion.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: And speaking of family, Tom goes, so, how how's the pregnancy,
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: and Matt's like, oh, you didn't just gain some weight,
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: you're actually pregnant, right, Tom's like, don't you pay attention?
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: Everybody's talking about it, right, how did you? How are
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: you sitting in like a tavern and are missing the
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: most common piece of gossip because of course everyone's like, yeah,
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: the Queen's pregnant obviously.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 3: Right right, Like again, she is in her second trimester,
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 3: she's showing, she's commissioning maternity gowns. Everyone knows she's pregnant.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: This is not and everyone's speculating on the father.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this is not hard news to pick up, Like
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 3: what are you? What are you doing? How do you
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 3: not know this?
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: And there's actually a little bit of like why doesn't
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: he pick that up? That seems kind of weird. He's
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: just very not paying attention.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 3: I think he's just focused on his own worries and
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 3: just kind of ignoring news of Elaine as like a
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 3: default filter. If it's rumors about Elaine, he doesn't care
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 3: because he's going to talk to her later. Best I
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 3: got fair.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: And he's like Rand's the father, okay, Like he's like,
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: you know you're pregnant?
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, does Randon know about this? I should hope
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 3: he's not too.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: Surprised he was there when it happened.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 3: I also love that she doesn't even begin to try
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 3: to keep it a secret from Matt, Like this is
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 3: a family reunion. Everyone in this room is qualified to
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 3: know who the real father is because obviously we all
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 3: love Rand so it makes sense to know who his
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 3: children are, like the it's sweet.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: I also really like the reunion between Brigida and He
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: kind of skipped over that, but that's you know, the
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: old drinking buddies who without a drink, but like, yeah,
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: that's just they're good friends. They're still good friends. They
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: stay good friends.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 3: He sticks out his hand for a shake and she's
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 3: like come here and gives them the like slapping hug
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 3: thing like yeah.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: And you know, she gave him a squeeze and Matt
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: was like totally. And so she asked about a budar,
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: and I love Burgie's response forget abudar, what about all
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: of her? Right, because she cared about the ugly little kid, right,
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: that's her Getlekane and he's not Gutlecane.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 3: But it's close enough for the instinct to keep a
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 3: child safe, and you know, yeah, they get the update,
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 3: like yeah, he's fine. He's going to be a professional soldier,
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 3: but other than that, he's fine. And then Tom tells
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 3: them the story of the whole adventure, and Matt almost
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 3: thought of himself as a hero listening to Tom. Almost
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 3: like the way Tom tells it, he comes out as
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 3: a hero, and that again reinforces this is how events
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 3: fade to myth. This is how it happens, is you
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 3: get a master bard to tell the story and it
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 3: really cleans up the awkward edges and makes everything feel
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 3: a lot more streamlined, gives you a clear hero, so
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 3: on and so forth.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: And I like how he's talking to Alane. He's like,
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: you know where a varon is because I need a
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: gateway and she's like no, He's like, well, so much
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: for a gateway. And it's like you know this, she's
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: made a deal with the kin to provide gateways. Like literally,
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: you're talking to the person. Yeah, she literally has more
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: gateways to at her fingertips than anybody else. Like she's
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: the perfect person to send you to the Tower of Gunjai.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this is the most gateway saturated place who could
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 3: possibly come. And then we talk about Bell Founders.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: Bell Founders, Yeah, Dragons, I love the way that she's
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: Elane's like, I don't understand why you'd want to throw
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: chunks of metal up in the air, where it's like
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: you wouldn't you'd throw them at the troops, and she
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: immediately gets like the strategic benefit of that.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 3: Matt rules out the project proposal, and within five minutes
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 3: the entire potential is understood by the people that he's
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 3: pitching the budget at. They get it fast, right, and
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 3: you know, it's a good reminder that like this once
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 3: started as throws pretty lights in the sky, and here's
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 3: how you change the physics. But it's also like, we're
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 3: not going to be labored the point the strategic implications
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 3: are going to be grassed very fast.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: Especially if you're you know, a channeler, right, this isn't
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: the first time you've been able to create large amounts
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: of energy concentrated in one spot. You understand the damage
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: that can.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 3: Do, yeah, totally, And you can do the math to
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 3: be like, well, this is how many shots per hour
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 3: to take out this much wall. Here's how many channelers
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 3: that's equivalent to HM.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: But I do think if if Jordan was writing this,
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: there would be a lot more skepticism at first and
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: he'd have to like build one to convince her. Like
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: She's like, well, well, we will have to build one
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: to make sure. I think like her skepticism would have
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: lasted until that first one was demonstrated.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 3: Sure, which would have been really frustrating to us. I
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 3: much prefer this approach where she just goes as a
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 3: tinkerer and an engineer. Yeah, let's build a prototype. But yeah,
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 3: let's go.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: Matt, I could kiss you. This is exactly what I needed.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 3: First, Snorri. Now Matt, Rand's gonna get jealous, so funny.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: She's like, well, if you would come here, I'd kiss him,
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: but he's not, so I'm gonna kiss everybody else. I'm
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: just saying Elaine. Elaine's a little bit of a horn dog.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 3: She's agreen.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The way she gets with Rand in the Stone
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: of Tear for three days and they're just like making
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: out in the hallways, it's like, oh yeah, oh yeah,
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: she's a freak.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, very much so. She's fireworks in every possible context.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: Every possible way, because she like and at the time
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: she barely knows. She still barely knows Rand. Really, if
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: you think about the amount of time they spend together
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: like he's tall and cute.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 3: What more do you need to know?
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah? I want tall babies, okay.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 3: And then we get into the negotiation where Matt says, Wow,
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 3: so generous of you to be so excited to build
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 3: these for me, and Elaide says, for you.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: All build these for me.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 3: I thought you were being generous giving me these plans
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 3: for nothing at all. And that's when Tob is just
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 3: sitting back with some popcorn and just enjoying himself.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: And so there's a lot of back and forth, right, like,
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: there's this, but they kind of end up. Let's see,
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: what's the final deal. The band can leave at any time,
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: like the band's fighting within and Or they have exclusive
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: use of the dragons. No one else can use them.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: All the bands in and Or they have to give
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: a month's notice before they leave. But when they leave,
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: they get to take a quarter of the dragons with them.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: And Elane keeps three quarters of the dragons.
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and she foots the entire cost of making them.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 3: He supplies the people who get trained in their initial usage, and.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: She gets them for at least one year, right, they
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: won't leave for at least a year.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's a lot of back and forth about
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 3: sovereignty and agency and resource allocation and understanding that the
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 3: Last Battle is sort of the overarching looming thing, and
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 3: that these negotiations are a little bit in preparation for
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 3: after the last battle, because the last battle is clearly
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 3: going to come real, real soon and be sort of
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 3: a moot issue. The dragons would be used to protect
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 3: humanity full stop.
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: And what she's not saying is I want this band
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: because we saw it earlier. They're mostly kyrieene In, or
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: there's a good portion of them that are kyrieene In,
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: and she can use them as native sons when coming
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: to take over the Kyrienne and thrown and so as
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: soon as they strike the deal, she's like, great, we're
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: going right to Kyrienne first thing, Like that's the first thing.
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: And he's like, oh yeah, I guess I can see
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: why you're using them for that. That's fine, you know,
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: like you can use them to take over the Kyrienne.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 3: Right well, because it's not going to be a high
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 3: mortality event. You know, it's going to be mostly a
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 3: show of force and keeping peace while a new order
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 3: gets established. It's not going to really throw away their
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 3: lives for someone else's ambitions. So he's like, yeah, that
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 3: seems fine. It gives them something to do rather than
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 3: picking fights with mercenaries, which is good.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: But during the negotiations, he brings out the medallion his
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: secret hidden card right, and basically says, you can have
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: this for three days and do whatever you want with it.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: I just want it back.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 3: He offers one day and agrees to three days. In
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 3: the end, she bargains him up folk like of her,
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 3: but yeah, he offers it for her to do whatever
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 3: she wants with it, and then she says, oh, I
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 3: might be able to copy it, which is integral to
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 3: his ability to take down the golomb. Her being able
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 3: to copy it is a benefit he hadn't even begun
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 3: to consider when he considered loaning it to her, and.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: In a lot of ways it is how he can
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: start to formulate a plan to take down the goal.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: And he's like, ooh, multiple copies, all of a sudden,
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: ideas start.
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 3: Going off right. And for her the copying process is
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 3: really annoying and difficult because it doesn't allow a person
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 3: to hold it in channel right. There's a lot of
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 3: issues for her, But for him it's all benefit because
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 3: all he needs is that sizzle when it hits a golomb.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 3: That's all he needs, and she is going to make
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 3: it possible to take that fucker down.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming that the medallion stops negating weaves if nobody
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: is holding it, and that's how she's able to study it.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: That if she sets it down on a table, she
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: can channel into it, right, But.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 3: She can't hold it and be protected by it and
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 3: use the power the same time. But she can with
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 3: the original. The original has that, and all of her
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 3: copies don't.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: Oh no, So what I'm thinking is even the original,
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: right she if she's holding it, If somebod's holding it
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: and you try and channel into it, it's gonna immediately
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: negate the weaves.
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 3: Oh gotcha? Gotcha?
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Right? So, like, even if she's holding it and
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: tries to channel into it, it's not so much that
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: she can't channel, so much as she's trying to channel
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: into a medallion that will negate weaves. So how do
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: you study something that will negate any weave you channel
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: into it. I have to assume that it's deactivated when
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: it's sitting on the table.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 3: Sure it's got some sort of power up when it's
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 3: within a certain range of the human electrical field or whatever.
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: I think it has to be touching a skin for
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: it to work.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 3: That makes sense. That makes sense because, yeah, she studies
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 3: it well enough to make at least a partial copy
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 3: that works well enough for offensive purposes.
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: I thought she did make at least one perfect copy
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: of it.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 3: I don't think so.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: No, No, they're all just the Yeah.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 3: They're all variations on imperfection. Some of them work better
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 3: than others, like some of them don't work at all,
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 3: and some of them do work a bit, but they
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 3: all have a flaw that she, you know, kind of
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 3: will be able to work out once she's not pregnant
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 3: and dealing with juggling the last battle. But it's going
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 3: to take a lot more R and D than she
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 3: has time for for the rest of the books. And
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 3: he feels very naked without the medallion. And then he
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 3: tells Elaine that the Gulomb's back in Tad, and she
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 3: understands how naked he must be feeling without it. She's
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 3: all right, I will be sure to not dick around
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 3: on giving this back to you, which I appreciate because
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 3: they already agreed on that. But now she knows that
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 3: it's not an arbitrary thing. He really is actively in danger.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 3: But the fact that she's going to make copies it
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 3: pays off. It really does pay off. Oh yeah, Tez Travis.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 3: She thinks about keeping the original because Matt won't know
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 3: the difference, and then she knows that that would be
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 3: not very honorable, and so she gives him back the original,
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 3: but she does consider not.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: The copies can also be overwhelmed. It seems that, like
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: the original, you can channel any amount of power at
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: it and will absorb it. The copies, if you get
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: powerful enough, we'll eventually break down and stop functioning, So
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: they're not quite the protection of the original, which it
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: makes it seem like the original is some sort of
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: even more than just super tear on real it's like
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: a supernatural object, kind of like the horn of Layer. Yeah, right,
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: these objects that seem to have power beyond And maybe
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: it's just copying imperfectly, but I kind of have the
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: idea that like, oh well, these things are just are
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: special in some way.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, finn engineering is better, I guess.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because we don't know if the Finn made this
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: or if it was taken from another They just happened
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: to have it and they took it from the real world. Right,
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: did someone come into the Gateway and die with that
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: on them and they have that in their possession or
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: did they make it in response to his request?
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 3: Hard to say.
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: I think it was made and brought in. I don't
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: think the fin invented it.
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 3: I have a hard time imagining the Finn creating anything.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 3: But also the fact that Elaine struggles to imitate this
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 3: makes me think that clearly this technology is from a
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 3: very different time and place, if not from a different realm.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: And the fact that it is a fox head right
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: from the snakes and foxes, right, So it's not like.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 3: Well, maybe they imbued it with certain properties or something
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 3: and that was one of the wishes of one of
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 3: their visitors.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: We don't really know how the wishes work. Yeah, how
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: do they How much power do the fox snakes and
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: foxes have to fulfill wishes?
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 3: I don't know. They're weird because it.
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: Seems like they can't necessarily like change reality, but they
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: can give you things, right.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 3: But also, you know, reverse engineering someone's tech is hard,
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 3: as they point out here with Eludra's cannons, right, they
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 3: kind of talk about the spread of military technology and
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 3: how we don't really want our enemies to get it,
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 3: but it's impossible to keep them from getting it ultimately.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 3: But also, if you don't have a Ludra, you're not
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 3: going to have as good of a time. It's going
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 3: to be really hard to reverse engineer something as good
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 3: as what Eludra's got. And the same rules kind of
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 3: apply to the Fox set. If you know what you're doing,
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 3: yes you can make it. But if you're reverse engineering
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 3: from the finished product, you're going to need a lot
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 3: of R and D or some extreme luck to replicate
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 3: the genius of the original inventor.
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: I like this exchange between Matt and Elaine. I don't
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: like having men who could leave me at any time.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: You know I won't hold them back merely despite you.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: Matt said, I'll do what's right, what you see as
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: being right. She corrected. Every man should have that option,
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: he replied, few men use it wisely. We want it anyway,
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: we demand it.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 3: I mean mic drop right, because when Elaine says, what
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 3: you see as being right is mirror reverse right. Everyone
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 3: has their own view of what is right. That's kind
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 3: of the point of being human. You don't get to
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 3: dictate what is right for me. That that's kind of
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 3: the whole point of having agency. It's kind of the
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 3: whole point of free will. We demand the right to
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 3: have our own moral compass, not be dictated at us
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 3: by someone else who thinks that they're better than us
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 3: at thinking.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: And then once they make the deal, she's like, did
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: you hold that in reserve because you thought I might
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: send you against the two Rivers? And he's like, no,
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: but that's a perfect.
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, way to prove my point, I guess because I
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 3: didn't even know that was in the picture. Yeah. But no,
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 3: for him, it was just a matter of he has
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 3: a lot of battle memories and he knows that history rhymes,
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 3: so he wants to maintain maneuverability for his multinational military
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 3: force and timeline.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: I'm not really sure where Parent is in relationship to this.
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: It seems like he's still pretty like it seems like
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: this is further along when he's put the band the
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: Menethrene again, because this is closer to Rand's timeline, right,
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: But she's heard rumors. They're old rumors, so I'm not
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: sure exactly what she's heard about. Where Parent is at
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: his moment in his quote unquote rebellion. This could still
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: be her hearing rumors about when he was raising the
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: flag of Menethrene.
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 3: Because parent puts the flag up and then he takes
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 3: it down and then puts it up again, And yeah, really,
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 3: I think maybe deliberately ambiguous on where we're at with
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 3: the parent timeline.
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: Next thing I have is Lane talking to Tom about
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: making him court barred, but not being tied down to
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: being court barred.
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 3: She wants to give him a pardon, and she hides
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 3: it inside a proclamation that he can be court barred
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 3: at large, because that's a big smoke screen to hide
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 3: the By the way, I pardon you for anything and everything,
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 3: including up to in including murder or whatever.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: It feels a little bit like an honorary doctorate before.
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: It's like you've done the you know, like you've done
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: the work. You never actually got the doctorate, but like
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: we're just going to give you that title and let
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: you go about your life with that title because you've
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: done so much.
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 3: Which you know, I think he's earned. The only reason
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 3: that he left Camlyn in such a bad odor was
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 3: because Morgaid was young and impulsive, and he was young
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 3: and impulsive and they had a bad fight, like it
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 3: wasn't even robbing, it was just a bad time.
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: Well, also he killed her husband, and.
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 3: That's what the pardon is for, right.
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the pardon in both and Or and Kyrie Enne
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: is for killing both kings.
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 3: King killer over here.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like he he has remembered because like back when
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: the king killed his love Dana Dana.
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 3: But he also killed Tarangale.
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: But he also killed Tarangale because Tarangell was going to
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: kill more gays because he wanted to take over and Or.
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so Elaine's just kind of like, I don't really care.
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: So she just pardoned him for the killing of two kings.
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because they were bad people and you're cool, So
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 3: it's okay. Basically that's her basically our argument.
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And He's like, I don't know if how does
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: she know? I just she pardoned me for killing two kings?
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: Is that? Like? Is she aware that that's? And I
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: wonder who told her? And she's aware. I think she knows.
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, It's like, did she just pardon me for killing
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 3: her biological father? Awkward?
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: Basically yeah, basically and her biological uncle, right, like isn't
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: isn't Domindred somehow her through.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Terrean Gale Domindrade. Yeah, Terrean Gale is a Domindrade.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 3: So yeah, if Tom killed what was his name? Who
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 3: was in carrion, Barthonis, Barthonis Damadrid. Yeah, that one he
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 3: has Galdrian Rioton and Barthonis Domindrad.
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: And Barthonis was a dark friend.
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and Barthonis is the one that Tom kills because
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 3: Galdrian gets killed by someone else. I was just re
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 3: listening to this part that's right, is that he thinks
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 3: Gauldrey and killed Data and then he learns that Gldren's
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 3: already dead, so we can't kill him. And then the
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 3: innkeeper says, oh, actually, these people who you just stabbed
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 3: in the face are not Galdrians.
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: People, they're Domindreds.
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they're Baronis's people. So then Tom goes off and
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 3: kills Barthonis, who was a dark.
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: Friend and not technically the king. I always say two kings,
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: but like he's.
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 3: Vying for the kingship. He's trying to get the Kingship
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 3: back to House Domitrad because House Rioting has had it
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 3: since the Domitrans lost it in the war twenty years ago.
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 3: It all comes back around, right, right, right, But yeah,
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 3: it's it's funny how Tom gets a pardoned because he's cool.
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 3: But it's fine. And there's a bit more sibling style
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 3: banter between Elaine and Matt about language and coats and
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 3: it's cute and funny.
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: And him being you know, bloody noble and she's like, well,
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: if you're if you don't name yourself a title, I'm
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: gonna give you one. I'm gonna maze. She's basically like, yeah,
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna make you a noble no matter what you say.
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, you don't have Paren's audacity and claiming
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 3: a title. I'll make sure you get one, not knowing
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 3: he already has one. It's called Prince of the Ravens.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, don't don't sleep on that one.
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 3: And then yeah, she boots them out that way she can,
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 3: you know, have her daily midwife visit and she'll see
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 3: them for dinner in three hours. And Matt's like, that
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 3: went well. I definitely reeled her in. I came out
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 3: the winner. Tom's like sure, yeah you did, Sure buddy. Yeah,
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 3: we want me to go help you buy a coat
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 3: before dinner because he needs to get a new coat
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 3: before he has dinner with the queen, and then that's
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 3: the banter that they end the chapter on.
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: I do like, so, Tom, you're gonna buy me a coat?
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: I didn't say i'd buy it. We're gonna go get
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: you a new one. You're buying you're the rich noble.
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I love that chapter. I thought that was
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: a really really good bad chapter Biden, probably the best
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: one that I think Sanderson's written. It had a lot
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: of the sort of OHO's the We're I'm looking for
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: hypocritical humor that I think Matt is so well known
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: for good reunion, good side characters, good plot right, good
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: resolution to a couple of plot lines that we've been
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 1: waiting for a while, having the dragons be made finally
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff. Really really thought that
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: that was a good chapter. I even enjoyed the parent
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: one a little bit more than I thought I would,
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: because we had, you know, Fayiel dealing with Perilane, finally,
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: paren learning the wolf dream. Finally. There's just a lot
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: of finally' where I'm like, oh my god, finally this
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: is happening. And I think for a lot of people when,
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: especially when I first read these That's what made the
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: book so good. I was like, oh my god, this
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: is finally happening.
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and we're not like last episode we were jettisoning
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 3: a lot of plots and characters out of the way.
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 3: This time we were actually moving our core stories forward.
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 3: These are the things we're not jettisoning. These are the
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 3: things that we are actually work on. This is what
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 3: we're making space for. And it's nice to have the
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 3: space for them. It is really, really nice. I did
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 3: enjoy both these chapters quite a bit, the second one
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 3: more so, but still both were good.
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: And next week we get n Nieve's I Sidye Test.
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, I'm so excited. I like that chapter
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 3: a lot.
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: And don't forget this is episode five five five we
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: said anything, Yeah, this is five hundred and fifty five wow.
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: Five wow.
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 3: This is a five hundred and fifty five episodes of
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 3: either book chapters or the tangents between books. That does
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 3: not include the show coverage episodes. It does not include bonus.
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: Episodes for saken episodes.
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 3: Like the Forsaken Episodes or whatever. It's only chapter episodes
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 3: and tangents. That is what the numbers have been counting.
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 3: And yeah, the podcast is five hundred and fifty five
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 3: deep amazing. That's so, that's amazing, wild, that's that's a
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 3: lot of content.
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: I'm almost sure we're going to hit six hundred. I
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: don't think we're going to go much over that.
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, somewhere around six hundred probably.
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: Wild, just based on how many chapters there are. Well,
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: you know we've got we might we might get around
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: six to fifty, right, just give or take. But yeah,
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: the binge must be insane at this point.
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so much longer than the books themselves, so
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 3: much longer.
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: But as always, a huge shout out and a huge
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: thank you to everyone who supports us on Patreon. You know,
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: you are the reason we're able to get to five
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: hundred and fifty five. You're the reason we're able to
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: get to like we are in shouting distance of doing
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: a complete spoilers podcast for every single chapter, like it's
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: the end is in sight in terms of like getting
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: through these books. And I think that's just just absolutely amazing.
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: And five hundred and fifty five episodes, Like, I mean,
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: hitting five hundred was kind of amazing, hitting half of
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: a thousand, but for some reason, this number is driving
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: it home even more that we are we have produced
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: so much content and like this has been going now
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: for We're coming up on nine years relatively soon in April, Souse,
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: it's six months away, but we're at eight and a
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: half years now, basically exactly. And that's just so long
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: to be doing this. And I'm so grateful for all
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 1: the support that I've gotten from everybody over all the
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: years talking about my favorite book series.
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an incredible thing to be part of. And
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 3: as a celebration of that, we're going to end this
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 3: recording and go start experimentally seeing about maybe doing another podcast.
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 3: We'll let you know, We'll see.
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: God damn it donut.
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 3: Thank you for listening to the Wheeld of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 3: Please rate and review us on your podcast app, and
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 3: consider supporting us on Patreon for ad three episodes. Watt
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 3: Spoilers is a production of Fox and Raven Media. For
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 3: more podcasts from Fox and Dravenmedia, visit our website at
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 3: Foxendravenmedia dot com.