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The Dark History of the Steelers Offensive Line · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

0:00
SPEAKER_02: Hi everybody.
0:01
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Pittsburgh Sports Memories Podcast.
0:05
SPEAKER_02: My name is Tim Hannon.
0:07
SPEAKER_02: I have a co-host with me.
0:10
SPEAKER_00: Um I think my name is Steve Ward, something like that.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
0:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
0:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's it.
0:16
SPEAKER_02: You can always check your driver's license.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: Hold on.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: That's me.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: Math Tex.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
0:40
SPEAKER_02: All right.
0:40
SPEAKER_02: This episode, uh, we're going to delve into the dark history of the Steel Wars offensive line.
0:48
SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, over the years, we've had for the Steel Wars multiple linemen who've fallen into mental illness or substance abuse, all kinds of other troubles.
1:02
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, is is it a curse?
1:04
SPEAKER_02: Is it CTE maybe to blame for all this?
1:08
SPEAKER_02: I mean, after all, offensive linemen are basically in a car accident on every play of their career.
1:14
SPEAKER_02: In fact, one guy on our list is the first ever NFL player diagnosed with CTE.
1:19
SPEAKER_02: Um, and and you know, I think no doubt that was probably a contributing factor for a lot of these guys, but I do think that Steve, when we see bad things happen to people, we we often search for like the the simple one and done answer.
1:34
SPEAKER_02: And I think as we get into this, um, we'll see that life is usually a lot more complicated than that.
1:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's there's no like single everybody, you know, because it'd be easy.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: Like, if you just don't do this one thing, you know, you'll be fine.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: But normally, you know, well, actually not normally, it it always is.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: Life is a you know, a lot of different choices that led to you getting to this point.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, it's kind of like the Titanic, you know, if they would have designed the watertight compartments to go all the way up, if they wouldn't have driven at max speed, if they would have, you know, had better lookouts on the thing, you know.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: If they would have had all the lifeboats, yeah, yeah.
2:16
SPEAKER_00: There's like it so all the you know decisions that you made that were made years in advance kind of led to the tragedy, and all people say, well, the boat's at the bottom of the ocean, a lot of people died, and there wasn't enough room on that door for Jack.
2:31
SPEAKER_00: You know.
2:32
SPEAKER_00: That definitely was a design flaw.
2:36
SPEAKER_02: I think that was a user error.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: I think Mythbuster, didn't Mythbusters do an episode where they did that.
2:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:48
SPEAKER_02: I'll never let go, Jack.
2:49
SPEAKER_02: Just stay in the water and die.
2:51
SPEAKER_02: I'll be up here being a bit more.
2:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then she let go, yeah.
2:59
SPEAKER_02: Anyway, um I we do want to say up front, we're gonna dive into some serious stuff here.
3:05
SPEAKER_02: There's gonna be discussions of suicide and mental health struggles, so viewer discretion is advised.
3:11
SPEAKER_02: And of course, if you're struggling with any of these type of things, we do encourage you to seek help.
3:17
SPEAKER_02: So the first guy we're gonna talk about is Terry Long.
3:21
SPEAKER_02: Terry Long was a guard for the Sealers for eight seasons, 1984 to 1991.
3:27
SPEAKER_02: And he's really short for an offensive lineman.
3:30
SPEAKER_02: He's 5'11, and for perspective, the shortest offensive lineman in the NFL last year, Steve, was 6'1.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: They lie.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: They lie.
3:41
SPEAKER_02: Do they wear their do they wear those um boots that George Costanza used to wear?
3:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the Timberlands.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: He'll paint them black every occasion.
3:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, I met Eric Pegrim one time.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: They listed Eric Pegrim at 5'11, Tim.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: I am 5'11.
3:57
SPEAKER_00: Eric Pegrim with the high top fade came up to maybe the middle of the chest, and I'm including his high top fade, which was a good four inches.
4:08
SPEAKER_00: Eric Pegrim was not an inch over 5'2.
4:13
SPEAKER_02: Well, maybe maybe they exaggerated Terry Long's 5'11 height too.
4:16
SPEAKER_02: Maybe it's all relative.
4:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, maybe.
4:19
SPEAKER_02: Either way, he's he's usually if he when he's standing on the offensive line, he's he's visibly not as tall as the other guys.
4:26
SPEAKER_02: But what Terry Long lacked in height, he made up for with strength.
4:31
SPEAKER_02: So get this.
4:31
SPEAKER_02: He wins a weight loss lifting competition in 1983 with these numbers, an 838-pound squat, a 502-bound pound bench press, and a near world wet record 865-pound deadlift.
4:47
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: I was asking what the world like how close that was to a world record.
4:51
SPEAKER_00: Jeez.
4:52
SPEAKER_02: Pretty close.
4:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he should have been in the Olympics or something with those kind of, you know.
4:57
SPEAKER_00: Don't they have Olympic weight lifting?
5:00
SPEAKER_00: Somewhere.
5:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's nuts.
5:02
SPEAKER_02: I I had an orange theory class yesterday, Steve, and the coach had us do deadlifts of with 60 pound dumbbells, and like I can't jump my legs this morning.
5:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:13
SPEAKER_02: And and he was doing 800 pounds more than that.
5:16
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
5:17
SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, that's that's amazing.
5:20
SPEAKER_02: Uh his uh teammate John Lott on the Steelers said, quote, Terry Long was the strongest guy I've ever been around.
5:27
SPEAKER_02: He was like granite.
5:29
SPEAKER_02: He was small in stature, but no one in that locker room messed with him.
5:34
SPEAKER_02: And and long's a pretty consistent starter for the Steelers, too.
5:37
SPEAKER_02: He never makes a Pro Bowl, but you know, solid and dependable.
5:41
SPEAKER_02: Teammates love him.
5:43
SPEAKER_02: Chuck Knowles says he's an incredibly hard worker.
5:46
SPEAKER_02: In 1991, the NFL tests him for steroids and he fails to test.
5:52
SPEAKER_02: And it's a really crushing moment for Terry Long.
5:55
SPEAKER_02: And he claims that he only started taking some banned substances that year because he was trying to recover from a knee surgery.
6:04
SPEAKER_02: And he's devastated because what's Terry Long known for?
6:08
SPEAKER_02: Right?
6:09
SPEAKER_02: He's not tall, he's not strong.
6:11
SPEAKER_02: He's stressed.
6:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he's strong.
6:13
SPEAKER_00: So now everybody thinks he did like steroids to get strong.
6:17
SPEAKER_00: Right.
6:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:18
SPEAKER_02: Fans, teammates, opponents, everybody's gonna think, oh, that was just a sham.
6:23
SPEAKER_02: He's not really that strong.
6:24
SPEAKER_02: And according to him, you know, it was just sort of an accidental.
6:28
SPEAKER_02: He was trying to recover from a knee surgery.
6:30
SPEAKER_02: He wasn't, you know, doping his whole career.
6:33
SPEAKER_02: And that's so devastating for him that he decides he's going to kill himself.
6:37
SPEAKER_02: He overdoses on sleeping pills and he drinks rat poison.
6:41
SPEAKER_02: Fortunately, he does survive all that.
6:44
SPEAKER_02: Uh he serves a four-game suspension, and then he's not offered a new contract when Bill Cower and Tom Donohoe take over operations of the team.
6:53
SPEAKER_02: After his football career ends, he stays in Pittsburgh and he starts a chicken processing plant on the north side.
7:00
SPEAKER_02: That doesn't go well.
7:01
SPEAKER_02: In 2003, he gets in trouble with the USDA for being in violation of federal regulations.
7:08
SPEAKER_02: A couple of months later, there's a fire that burns most of the plant down.
7:13
SPEAKER_02: In 2005, he's charged with defrauding the state of some$1.2 million through business loan schemes.
7:20
SPEAKER_02: And also that fire, Steve.
7:23
SPEAKER_02: The feds say that was arson to claim the insurance.
7:27
SPEAKER_00: Insurance.
7:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:28
unknown: Yeah.
7:30
SPEAKER_02: So Terry Long is facing 55 years in prison, and he tells a neighbor very emphatically that he is not going to jail.
7:38
SPEAKER_02: And a couple of days later, he drinks a gallon of antifreeze and he's dead at age 45.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: There's your stressor.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: You know, when you get stressed like that.
7:50
SPEAKER_00: And he that was his he had already had a suicide attempt in his lifetime.
7:55
SPEAKER_00: So he had that stressor and you know the public embarrassment that he was he had already gone through once and he wasn't going to go through that again.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: So you can see how that led to his um decision there.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, antifreeze um causes kidney failure and metal.
8:13
SPEAKER_00: That's very dangerous and deadly.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately for Terry, he should have reached out to somebody, anybody.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: Please talk.
8:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's gonna be like I'm I think I'm gonna say this a couple of times.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: Just please talk to somebody, anybody.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: There's there's suicide hotlines that you know, that are available that you can call.
8:36
SPEAKER_00: You can even text, I think it's 988 and somebody will text you back.
8:40
SPEAKER_00: There's resolve crisis if you're in Allegheny County and Pittsburgh.
8:44
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of lot of services here in the these days.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, we you know it it's a shame that nobody noticed it.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: But I mean it was 90s and people weren't as you know, I guess, attuned to it as maybe they are now.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: So and there wasn't all those services like we have now.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: I mean you would think somebody would have referred him to psychiatry after his first suicide attempt, but right maybe they did and he didn't follow up.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's you know, you can't help somebody who you know doesn't want to be helped.
9:19
SPEAKER_00: Not saying that that was the case.
9:20
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
9:21
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
9:22
SPEAKER_00: I I I maybe he did seek help and you know he just he you know it's a shame.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: It's a shame.
9:29
SPEAKER_02: His his death is actually mired in controversy too, because initially the Allegheny County Coroner's office rolls his death the result of football-related CTE.
9:41
SPEAKER_02: And at the time, the coroner's office is run by Cyril Wecht and Bennett Amalu, and those two guys are busy grinding an axe with the NFL over CTE and brain injuries.
9:52
SPEAKER_02: So they say, yeah, cause of death was CTE.
9:55
SPEAKER_02: Then, like a full month later, they revised the death certificate to say it was a suicide, but they never publicly announced that.
10:04
SPEAKER_02: And so when the when the media kind of learns of this and it comes out, Amalu says, Well, yeah, he committed suicide, but that was because the CTE caused depression.
10:14
SPEAKER_02: It it just kind of smacked of trying to use Terry Long's death to further a personal crusade, a noble crusade for sure.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: But this is this is why nobody believes the experts anymore, Tim.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: You know, what when you're an expert in something, and I'm sure Dr.
10:32
SPEAKER_00: Malu is, you you can't just flush your credibility like this.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: You have to be honest.
10:37
SPEAKER_00: Even if you really believe that this is harming people, and it is, you have to be honest.
10:42
SPEAKER_00: It's a contributing factor.
10:45
SPEAKER_00: You know, the infection, you know, when you have type 2 diabetes and it's uncontrolled, you can get an infection in your toe and you've lost your toe because of the infection.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: But a contributing factor to that was your diabetes.
10:58
SPEAKER_00: So I mean you have to be honest with people, and that's always the best policy.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: And like I said, not everybody will listen, but you you win the ones you can, you know.
11:10
SPEAKER_02: I I I couldn't agree more, Steve.
11:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like either either stand by your work or don't.
11:15
SPEAKER_02: But when you have to embellish something to prove it, it's it's just now nobody believes now, nobody believes anything.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
11:22
SPEAKER_00: And you're you're hurting more people than you're helping.
11:24
SPEAKER_00: And I I think that that Dr.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: Wek, especially, like that was a lot, that was an issue in his career.
11:31
SPEAKER_00: He you know, he he would do the right thing in the wrong way.
11:35
SPEAKER_00: That's a good way to put it.
11:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:38
SPEAKER_02: That's a good way to put it.
11:39
SPEAKER_02: And and honestly, like the the subsequent Will Smith movie, I felt was the same way.
11:44
SPEAKER_02: Like they literally had a scene in that movie where hired NFL thugs chase down Ben and Amalu's wife and she has a miscarriage.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: That literally never happened.
11:54
SPEAKER_02: And there's another scene where they raid Crowex office, but which did happen, but had nothing to do with the NFL.
12:02
SPEAKER_02: I I mean, it's just a bunch of embellishment.
12:05
SPEAKER_02: And it it's they they again, like I said, that was a a noble crusade that they had and a good crusade that they had.
12:12
SPEAKER_02: So just go off your work, you don't need to, yeah, like you said, be dishonest.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: Well, because it it ruined now you've ruined your credibility.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: And that's the problem, is when you know, I think I think the mainstream media is finding that out right now.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: When when you lose your credibility and nobody believes, like, you know, if you know the mainstream media said the sky is blue, people would go out and look, you know, because that that's where you are.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: And that and when you're in the media and podcasting and this, you know, if I said you know something wild, it probably wouldn't, you know, it is just an opinion.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: But you know what I mean?
12:47
SPEAKER_00: Like people would stop believing what we say.
12:50
SPEAKER_00: Your credibility, you know, what they say, it's gained and drops and lost in buckets, you know, it's kind of like trust, you know.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
13:00
SPEAKER_02: Fortunately for us, our credibility was shot a long time ago.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: Well, when you when you put me on the podcast for sure.
13:07
SPEAKER_02: Uh one final kind of eerie footnote to to this story.
13:12
SPEAKER_02: In July of 2025, a gunman walks into the NFL's office building in New York City and kills four people before taking his own life.
13:21
SPEAKER_02: And in the suicide note he left behind, he mentions Terry Long for unknown reasons.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: That's weird.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: I didn't realize that that had happened, and that just happened.
13:32
SPEAKER_02: That just happened, yeah.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:36
SPEAKER_02: All right.
13:37
SPEAKER_02: Um, the next person we're going to talk about is Steve Corson.
13:40
SPEAKER_02: He was also a guard, plays for the Steelers from 1978 to 83.
13:45
SPEAKER_02: Like Terry Long, a consist consistent starter, not a pro bore, but solid guy.
13:51
SPEAKER_02: Wins two Super Bowls with the Steelers.
13:53
SPEAKER_02: Corson's not your stereotypical 1980s jock.
13:57
SPEAKER_02: He's a history buff and he loves classical music.
14:00
SPEAKER_02: In 1985, uh, he's playing for Tampa Bay at this point.
14:05
SPEAKER_02: He makes huge waves by giving an interview to Sports Illustrated in which he admits to actively using steroids, and he claims that 75% of NFL linemen are on steroids as well.
14:17
SPEAKER_02: He says for him, it started during his freshman year at South Carolina, where he just kept getting pushed around too easily by these bigger kids, and he said he knew he had to go on drugs if he wanted to make a career out of football.
14:29
SPEAKER_02: And he's pretty unapologetic about using steroids.
14:33
SPEAKER_02: He says, quote, what's wrong with a football player building his body as strong as he can with steroids?
14:38
SPEAKER_02: I know I have to play a 16-game season, and to survive serious injury, I have to be as strong as I possibly can be.
14:47
SPEAKER_02: And he does admit in that Sports Illustrated article that, you know, there are side effects, and he does worry about what the steroids will do to his long-term health, but he says at that point he has no regrets.
14:59
SPEAKER_02: Well, after his career ends, he does a complete 180 on that stance.
15:04
SPEAKER_02: He starts to have heart-related issues, and he goes on a crusade against steroids.
15:10
SPEAKER_02: He becomes very outspoken against the NFL and what he thinks is a sham testing process.
15:15
SPEAKER_02: He testifies before Congress.
15:17
SPEAKER_02: He makes dozens of speeches to high school and college players about the dangers of steroids.
15:22
SPEAKER_02: And he writes a book that's pretty controversial around these parts called False Glory, Stealers, and Steroids.
15:30
SPEAKER_02: Uh, he is supposedly blackballed by the NFL for this, although I couldn't really find any like hard evidence to support that claim.
15:37
SPEAKER_02: Wasn't sure if he was trying to get jobs in the NFL.
15:41
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what what when people say he was blackballed.
15:44
SPEAKER_02: I like I said, I don't really see any evidence of that.
15:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he really just kind of retired to his farm there, didn't he?
15:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but yeah, yes.
15:52
SPEAKER_02: He he was actually so in 2005, he's living in a cabin in Fayette County with his dog.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: Actually sounds nice.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: Actually sounds nice.
16:01
SPEAKER_02: It sounds really nice.
16:03
SPEAKER_02: I think that was what he liked.
16:05
SPEAKER_02: And one day in 2005, he's cutting down a tree with a chainsaw, which is something he did frequently.
16:10
SPEAKER_02: So he heard it.
16:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he was like a mountain man kind of farmer kind of guy.
16:15
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
16:16
SPEAKER_02: And cutting down trees is obviously very dangerous, but he had done this before.
16:20
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, it's not something I would ever do, Steve.
16:22
SPEAKER_02: I I would I would not know what I'm doing.
16:25
SPEAKER_02: Uh this day was particularly windy, and when the tree starts coming down, it's actually falling directly towards his dog.
16:34
SPEAKER_02: And Corson, probably on instinct, and probably what any of us who are dog lovers would do, tries to get in between him and the dog, and the tree falls directly on him, and he's killed instantly.
16:46
SPEAKER_02: Uh the dog gets injured but does survive, but just a very sad end to Steve Corson's life.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was a weird yeah, it was just a weird thing, the weird way to go for him.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: But I mean, good for him turning it around there at the end, you know, and you know, making a difference, you know.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you go through something and you see the error of your ways, apparently.
17:11
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
17:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, good good on him.
17:13
SPEAKER_02: Yes, for sure.
17:16
SPEAKER_02: Next guy we'll talk about is probably the most well-known of any of these players.
17:20
SPEAKER_02: It's Hall of Fame Center Mike Webster.
17:22
SPEAKER_02: And if you're somehow not familiar with who Mike Webster was, here's just a partial list of his accomplishments in the NFL.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: What rock have you been living under?
17:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:34
SPEAKER_02: He four times Super Bowl champion, nine time Pro Bowler, he's on the NFL's 1970s all decade team, 1980s all decade team.
17:44
SPEAKER_02: Do you do you know how dominant you have to be two decades, yeah.
17:48
SPEAKER_02: Two all decade teams?
17:50
SPEAKER_02: Like, that's incredible.
17:51
SPEAKER_02: He's on the 75th anniversary team, he's on the 100th anniversary team for the NFL.
17:57
SPEAKER_02: If you said he was the greatest center in the history of the league, you might get a few arguments, but probably not many.
18:05
SPEAKER_02: Unfortunately, uh his post-football life is a mess.
18:09
SPEAKER_02: He makes some bad business deals, he separates from his wife, he struggles to hold down football-related jobs, he has his house foreclosed on.
18:18
SPEAKER_02: He suffers from all kinds of mental health problems, including depression and dementia.
18:23
SPEAKER_02: And in this case, this was CTE related.
18:26
SPEAKER_02: Webster had suffered a number of undiagnosed concussions during his career.
18:31
SPEAKER_02: His family says he really changes too.
18:34
SPEAKER_02: His son says he would be very quick to get angry.
18:36
SPEAKER_02: His wife says he was very withdrawn.
18:39
SPEAKER_02: And in the 1990s, he's actually homeless for quite a few years, usually sleeping in his car.
18:46
SPEAKER_02: The Steelers do try to help him.
18:48
SPEAKER_02: Dan Rooney, and this is just very typical Dan Rooney, puts him up in the downtown Hilton for three months and pays a bunch of phone bills and room service bills that Webster accumulates.
19:02
SPEAKER_02: It was apparently a pretty, pretty expensive in Denver endeavor, given that, well, first of all, three months at the downtown Hilton alone would be expensive, but then a bunch of you know bills that Webster racked up.
19:16
SPEAKER_02: So um Dan Rooney definitely tried to step in there, but none of it really helped.
19:22
SPEAKER_02: Um, Webster dies of a heart attack in 2002 at the age of 50.
19:27
SPEAKER_02: Just a really cruddy end for one of the most legendary stealers ever.
19:31
SPEAKER_02: And if there's anything good that comes out of all of this, it's that Webster is the first football player diagnosed with CTE, and that does in fact strengthen the case made by Dr.
19:42
SPEAKER_02: Omalu.
19:43
SPEAKER_02: And eventually, after much kicking and screaming by the NFL, it does lead to a bunch of positive safety changes.
19:50
SPEAKER_02: Uh the Webster family also gets over a million dollars in late disability payments after suing the NFL, so good on them.
19:58
SPEAKER_02: Probably should have gotten a lot more than that.
20:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's tough.
20:04
SPEAKER_00: You feel like this guy maybe didn't get as much help as he should have.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: I mean I I wow.
20:14
SPEAKER_00: There was nowhere I I just can't feel that there wasn't a better place for him than a downtown Hilton.
20:21
SPEAKER_00: Like I would have think, like some sort of hospital or something.
20:24
SPEAKER_02: But well, like like you said, Steve, it's it's a combination of maybe we didn't understand what he was dealing with.
20:30
SPEAKER_00: Maybe like just going through a rough patch or something.
20:33
SPEAKER_00: Right.
20:34
SPEAKER_00: Like it like Good on him for trying.
20:36
SPEAKER_02: I mean, but yeah, I think that was a noble attempt by Dan Renee.
20:40
SPEAKER_02: But it's a combination of that and a combination of how much does the other person want to be helped?
20:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: Oh he was obviously a proud person and didn't want to, yeah.
20:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and we'll t we'll talk about a guy on this list later, actually, who one of his good friends tries to get him into a hospital and he just refuses.
21:01
SPEAKER_02: So um, again, you you never know kind of what's going on behind the scenes either.
21:08
SPEAKER_02: So the guy who preceded Mike Webster at center was Ray Mansfield.
21:14
SPEAKER_02: He's one of the few holdovers from the 1960s who lasts into the Chuck Knoll era.
21:20
SPEAKER_02: Mansfield wins two Super Bowls with the Steelers.
21:22
SPEAKER_02: He's in their Hall of Honor, and he still holds the team record for consecutive games played with 182.
21:31
SPEAKER_02: And there were a lot of games where Ray Mansfield was hurt, uh, but he he played.
21:37
SPEAKER_02: Um Ray Mansfield talking about that.
21:41
SPEAKER_02: He says, Quote, I had a thumb so bad I thought Joe Green broke it off.
21:45
SPEAKER_02: I couldn't open a door, but I could slam in a defensive lineman all day.
21:50
SPEAKER_02: He also said I split my cartilage and my ribs.
21:53
SPEAKER_02: I couldn't laugh, couldn't do anything.
21:55
SPEAKER_02: I'd have to hold my breath while I was hitting people.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
22:02
SPEAKER_02: So that's that's some uh that's some I don't I don't know what you want to call that.
22:08
SPEAKER_02: Uh a lot tougher than I would be, I could tell you that.
22:11
SPEAKER_02: I'd be sitting down at that point.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: Not running in the defensive lineman, that's for sure.
22:19
SPEAKER_02: No, certainly not.
22:21
SPEAKER_02: Uh Ray Mansfield's nickname, Steve.
22:24
SPEAKER_02: Do you remember his nickname?
22:25
SPEAKER_00: No, I don't.
22:27
SPEAKER_02: The Ranger.
22:29
SPEAKER_02: Because he loved the outdoors.
22:30
SPEAKER_02: He was a big outdoorsman.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
22:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:34
SPEAKER_02: Uh in 1996, he goes hiking in the Grand Canyon with his son and a friend.
22:41
SPEAKER_02: And they're hiking through these trails, and Mansfield kind of falls behind, and he says, You know what?
22:46
SPEAKER_02: You guys go ahead, I'll meet up with you later, where they had made camp.
22:51
SPEAKER_02: But by nightfall, Mansfeld never shows up.
22:54
SPEAKER_02: And the next morning they go out to look for him and they find him dead at age 55.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's wild.
23:01
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that's how wow.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: It happens.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: It happens, it happens a lot out there.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: You gotta watch yourself out there.
23:11
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you could chalk that up to anything besides a misadventure.
23:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:17
SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, and they the official cause of death was natural causes.
23:20
SPEAKER_02: They think he probably had a heart attack.
23:22
SPEAKER_02: But but that sucks because if he has a heart attack in the middle of a shopping mall.
23:28
SPEAKER_00: He may be, yeah, in 90, yeah, he definitely makes it.
23:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's yeah.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: That it maybe that's why he was yeah.
23:34
SPEAKER_00: That that is wow, that is really strange.
23:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:37
SPEAKER_00: I mean, not strange, but I mean you're in the middle of nowhere.
23:41
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
23:41
SPEAKER_02: Like literally in the middle of nowhere.
23:43
SPEAKER_02: And and it was 1996, people didn't have cell phones, but even today, if you were in the middle of the Grand Canyon, yeah, it would be it would take a minute to get a helicopter in there to get you out.
23:54
SPEAKER_02: So for sure.
23:56
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, just just bad timing to have that happen to you, for sure.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: So none of these guys are making 60.
24:06
SPEAKER_02: No.
24:06
SPEAKER_02: No.
24:07
SPEAKER_02: And these are again, this is that's what's eerie about this.
24:11
SPEAKER_02: Like, there's a this is a lot of things.
24:12
SPEAKER_00: And they're all from like 1970 onward so far.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:17
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's it's we're not talking like the 1950s where people like, you know, ate steak for breakfast.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: Maybe our diet is worse now.
24:29
SPEAKER_00: I I don't know.
24:30
SPEAKER_02: Well, and it's all offensive linemen, too, right?
24:32
SPEAKER_02: It's not yeah, yeah.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: I mean, well, they I don't know.
24:36
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you gotta eat like too at that position, you gotta eat.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: You know, you gotta eat like four or five thousand calories a day to keep your weight up, you know, because it's like sumo wrestling.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: You can't be light, you're you're gonna get knocked on your butt.
24:50
SPEAKER_02: So and I don't know what Mansfield's health habits were, you know, at that point, 20 years after.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: You played 182 games in the NFL consecutively.
25:00
SPEAKER_00: That's that's pretty I what was ja wasn't Jackie Slater the record?
25:04
SPEAKER_00: I mean he he Yeah, I think so.
25:06
SPEAKER_02: Or Jim Marshall, I think, is the record actually for the Vikings.
25:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
25:10
SPEAKER_02: But uh but yeah, that's a lot of games in a row.
25:13
SPEAKER_02: But I don't but he had retired those his last game was in 1976, so this is literally 20 years after he retired, so I don't know what his health habits are at this point.
25:21
SPEAKER_02: But if he's hiking through the Grand Canyon, he couldn't have been that bad.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's just a freak thing, yeah.
25:26
SPEAKER_02: Maybe, yeah, yeah.
25:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just sad.
25:30
SPEAKER_02: So speaking of sad stories, so so Mansfield and Webster are well-known members of the 1970s Steelers.
25:38
SPEAKER_02: One guy who most fans will not recognize is Randy Frisch.
25:42
SPEAKER_02: He is a seventh-round draft pick out of Missouri in 1977.
25:47
SPEAKER_02: And in college, he actually plays on the defensive line, but the Steelers convert him to an offensive tackle in training camp that year.
25:55
SPEAKER_02: So a seventh-round pick, switching positions, trying to earn a roster spot in the middle of the Super Stewart's dynasty, probably a long shot, but Frisch is determined he's gonna make the team.
26:09
SPEAKER_02: The first preseason game that summer is at Three River Stadium against the Buffalo Bills.
26:16
SPEAKER_02: And Frisch dresses for that game, he doesn't really play too much, and that's a night game.
26:23
SPEAKER_02: And after after it's over, a lot of the veterans get hotel rooms in Pittsburgh rather than driving all the way back to St.
26:30
SPEAKER_02: Vincent's for training camp.
26:32
SPEAKER_02: But Frisch and fellow rookie Dave Greineker, they can't afford a hotel room.
26:38
SPEAKER_02: So they attempt to drive down Route 30 in the middle of the night in a heavy rainstorm so they can make it back to La Trobe.
26:47
SPEAKER_02: And on the way back, a car veers across the center line and hits them head on.
26:51
SPEAKER_00: So they're in their lane and the car comes into their lane due to the rain.
26:56
SPEAKER_00: So this is like total you know what happens kind of thing.
27:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:02
SPEAKER_02: Uh Greineker survives, but his football career is over.
27:06
SPEAKER_02: Frisch, however, is killed instantly.
27:08
SPEAKER_02: He's only 23 years old.
27:12
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
27:14
SPEAKER_02: Dan Rooney is tasked with a job of calling Frisch's parents to tell them what happened.
27:18
SPEAKER_02: I can't even imagine.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that sounds like an incredible thing to have to do.
27:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: That's horrible.
27:25
SPEAKER_00: What a nightmare.
27:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:27
SPEAKER_02: And it and it just sucks too because I think if that were today, I I don't know what the policy is, but I bet I'm guessing the Steelers would probably just put all the players up in a hotel room or bust them all together or something.
27:41
SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, this really wasn't anybody's fault.
27:43
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's just, you know, accidents happen.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:48
SPEAKER_02: They do, but you know, Terry Brashaw and Franco Harris and Joe Green, they're all staying at hotels because they're veterans, they have a salary.
27:57
SPEAKER_02: Frisch, you know, he's a seventh-round pick.
27:59
SPEAKER_02: He's not getting paid anything unless he makes the team.
28:03
SPEAKER_02: So he just he can't afford to get a hotel room.
28:06
SPEAKER_02: And neither can this other guy, Dave Greiner.
28:08
SPEAKER_02: So they're like, okay, let's just drive back.
28:10
SPEAKER_02: I think they even had to borrow, I believe it was Cliff Stout's car that they had to borrow.
28:14
SPEAKER_02: Oh goodness.
28:16
SPEAKER_02: Because they didn't have a car.
28:17
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, and then this happens.
28:19
SPEAKER_02: It's it's terrible.
28:20
SPEAKER_02: And and the Steelers, you know, they're like it it really casts a pull over training camp that year.
28:25
SPEAKER_02: At some point, I want to do a whole episode on that 77 season because it's a weird, crazy season.
28:31
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and there's players are really broken up about it.
28:35
SPEAKER_02: Other people are angry.
28:36
SPEAKER_02: One of the trainers went on a rant.
28:38
SPEAKER_02: I was reading the newspaper article about you know, this section of Route 30 that that the accident happened in as a death trap, and they should have fixed it years ago.
28:48
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, so just a terrible thing to to happen.
28:52
SPEAKER_02: And 23 years old, you know, just starting out his life, just starting out potential football career.
28:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
29:00
SPEAKER_02: Uh Frisch is one of four players to be killed while actively playing for the Steelers.
29:06
SPEAKER_02: The other three are Mose Kelch, who was a kicker in the 30s, Big Daddy Lipscomb, and Dwayne Haskins.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: Hey, do you remember I mentioned Big Daddy Lipscomb in the Dark Ages Steeler episode way back when?
29:20
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he died of a heroin overdose.
29:23
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
29:23
SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, that was the way the Steelers went back in the 60s.
29:27
SPEAKER_00: He was still pretty good.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: He played for Baltimore.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: He lived in Baltimore.
29:31
SPEAKER_00: Right.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: There's actually a song.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: They made a song about him.
29:34
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
29:35
SPEAKER_02: I think you you had that on that episode.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: And uh of course, Dwayne Haskins, that's just I I don't even know what to say about that guy.
29:45
SPEAKER_00: That was just Yeah.
29:47
SPEAKER_00: I I I don't know what was going on there, but that was that was it was yeah, it was strange.
29:53
SPEAKER_00: It was strange, too.
29:55
SPEAKER_00: Like I don't know.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: But back to Randy Frisch and uh this other gentleman, I I I hope this guy got some sort of disability, the Greiniger, not that you're getting rich off a disability, but yeah, I hope so too.
30:09
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
30:10
SPEAKER_00: I mean I guess it's not technically a work-related injury because I mean you can't get you know, if you're driving to work, I I don't know.
30:18
SPEAKER_02: Well, knowing knowing you know, Art Rooney senior, I I would imagine he was somewhat taken care of, yeah.
30:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
30:26
SPEAKER_02: I mean the way he, you know, if you remember our gay Rivera episode.
30:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
30:30
SPEAKER_02: All the stuff he did for Gabe Rivera that he really didn't have to do.
30:33
SPEAKER_02: And Gabe Rivera literally was drinking, you know, and gotten that out of it.
30:38
SPEAKER_00: Nobody's drunk here or anything like that.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: This is just but that's a really that is a really strange one.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and sad.
30:46
SPEAKER_02: Really sad.
30:47
SPEAKER_00: I I don't know.
30:48
SPEAKER_00: I don't mean man, I don't want I'm glad I never played offensive line for the Steelers.
30:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
30:55
SPEAKER_02: And we're not even done.
30:56
SPEAKER_02: The next guy we're gonna talk about is Justin Strelzik.
31:00
SPEAKER_02: Played for the Steelers between 1990 and 1999, really versatile lineman, part of the Super Bowl 30 team, and and just one of those players that everybody loved.
31:12
SPEAKER_02: He was like this big bearded dude.
31:13
SPEAKER_02: He rode Harleys, he played guitar, he owned a pickup truck, just like a very relatable kind of football star, not like a diva, not like a you know, uh uh rake athlete kind of thing, just a regular guy.
31:29
SPEAKER_02: And I think people loved that about him.
31:31
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you remember Justin Straussek, right, Steve?
31:33
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: He was a decent player, too.
31:36
SPEAKER_00: He it wasn't a Hall of Famer.
31:37
SPEAKER_00: He might did he make I don't think he ever made the Pro Bowl.
31:40
SPEAKER_02: No, but he was one of those guys.
31:42
SPEAKER_00: He was pretty good.
31:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and he was one of those guys that could like move around the line.
31:45
SPEAKER_02: Like people got hurt and he was they could play fill it in.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:49
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the nine-year career isn't you know exactly chop liver.
31:54
SPEAKER_02: I mean yes, yeah.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he was there the whole decade.
31:57
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's saying something.
31:59
SPEAKER_02: I I still remember I'd be driving my dad and I, when we would go to the games, uh, on the way home, we would always turn on Myron Cope in the post-game locker room show.
32:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and Strelzick would be trying to bump cigarettes off of him while he was trying to do interviews.
32:17
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god.
32:18
SPEAKER_02: I just remember that.
32:19
SPEAKER_02: Like the game would be over and Myron's trying to interview you know, Neil O'Donnell or whatever, and Strelzick would be like, hey, can I have a cigarette?
32:26
SPEAKER_00: So after the interview.
32:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
32:31
SPEAKER_02: Uh in 1998, the Steelers are playing in Kansas City.
32:36
SPEAKER_02: And Derek Thomas, who was a, you know, if people don't remember Derek Thomas, he was a pretty fierce pass rusher.
32:43
SPEAKER_02: He beats Straussick on a pass rush.
32:46
SPEAKER_02: And as Strauzic's trying to kind of adjust and catch up to Derek Thomas, he tears his quadriceps, and that starts a chain reaction of things that really sends his life spiraling because that injury ends his season.
33:01
SPEAKER_02: Then he gets hurt again prior to the following season, but this time it's in a bar fight, so it's not even on the field, and he misses the entire 99 season.
33:11
SPEAKER_02: Then, as he's attempting to come back from all of that, he gets hurt in a celebrity hockey game, and that's it for his game.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: Why was Justin Strelby playing hockey?
33:20
SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
33:21
SPEAKER_00: Like ice hockey, or was it like ball hockey?
33:24
SPEAKER_00: I always ball hockey.
33:25
SPEAKER_02: I I I I just know it was a hockey game and he got hurt.
33:29
SPEAKER_00: I mean like could you imagine this man on ice skates?
33:33
SPEAKER_02: It probably, yeah.
33:35
SPEAKER_02: If I had to guess it wasn't ice skates, but he had already had two other injuries.
33:40
SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, that's that play against Derek Thomas that ends up being his last play in the NFL.
33:45
SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow.
33:46
SPEAKER_02: It's a very sudden kind of end for his playing career, and he really struggles to adapt to post-NFL life.
33:53
SPEAKER_02: He keeps trying all these new things like cooking.
33:55
SPEAKER_02: He actually gets into acting for a while.
33:58
SPEAKER_02: And his friends say that each thing he gets into, he's like very obsessively into.
34:04
SPEAKER_02: Oh, geez.
34:05
SPEAKER_02: He he struggles with alcohol, but then he finds God and he's really into his face.
34:10
SPEAKER_02: It's it seems like he has a very addictive personality where everything is extreme.
34:15
SPEAKER_02: Steve, you're I think they call that maybe splitting or something.
34:19
SPEAKER_02: You're you're you're the one with the medical degree out of the two of us.
34:23
SPEAKER_02: Like all or nothing thinking.
34:25
SPEAKER_02: I've heard that term too.
34:26
SPEAKER_02: What what how would you describe that?
34:28
SPEAKER_00: It sounds like OCD to me, but I can't.
34:30
SPEAKER_00: I'm not allowed to diagnose people, Tim, especially people I've never met in real life.
34:34
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not a doctor.
34:35
SPEAKER_00: So before anybody gets any idea, I am not a doctor.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: I am not, I have a medical license per se.
34:43
SPEAKER_00: Well, not per se, I do have a medical license, but no, I I'm it's a nursing license.
34:48
SPEAKER_00: It's not I cannot I cannot diagnose people, Tim.
34:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, I would have to meet them, and then the doctor would do that.
34:57
SPEAKER_00: But beyond that, if I could just guess, it sounds like OCD.
35:02
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: And a doctor would know better and be able to diagnose that better.
35:07
SPEAKER_00: And the doc even a doctor would have to meet.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: That's like what all these TV doctors that like to go on like the news channels and say, well, you know, Steve Wirt had blah blah blah.
35:17
SPEAKER_00: He was, you know, OCD and bipolar and blah blah blah blah blah.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: You know, all of that.
35:24
SPEAKER_00: They they can't do that.
35:25
SPEAKER_00: You you as that's unethical.
35:27
SPEAKER_00: You have to actually meet the person, talk to them, treat them, you know, be involved in their care to make a diagnosis.
35:35
SPEAKER_02: So that makes sense.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: I cannot give you a diagnosis, Tim.
35:38
SPEAKER_00: I can tell you what the signs and symptoms of them are, but okay, okay.
35:43
SPEAKER_00: Well I'm just trying to keep my medical license at this point, Tim.
35:51
SPEAKER_00: It look it looks and sounds like either it's bipolar or like you know his sister did say it.
35:56
SPEAKER_02: His sister said she thought it was bipolar.
35:58
SPEAKER_02: Again, she's making the same speculation as anybody else.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: They don't use bi they call it manic depressive anymore.
36:05
SPEAKER_00: So, but that's extreme.
36:06
SPEAKER_00: Like one minute, you know, your manic, which is like hyperactivity, you can't sit down, can't sit still, you're doing everything, you're making crazy purchases, and then the next minute you can't get out of bed.
36:18
SPEAKER_00: And it's okay, you know, it it's it's a rough thing to deal with, and they give you, you know, they have medications that can help stabilize your mood.
36:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's just difficult.
36:27
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's some of that.
36:28
SPEAKER_00: Some uh it's some people just get really into things, you know.
36:32
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, it's maybe it's like sometimes a blessing and a curse.
36:36
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, they like it sounds like he really was into football and he knew how to play football once it was taken care of, taken away from him, he was looking for someone uh something else to really get into.
36:48
SPEAKER_00: And you know, he he needed something for his life to be uh about.
36:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and the people close to him do say that he's starting to change.
36:57
SPEAKER_02: His wife separates from him.
36:59
SPEAKER_02: Uh in September of 2004, that's when things really start to go downhill.
37:04
SPEAKER_02: His sister says he starts throwing money out the window of her car screaming at the devil.
37:08
SPEAKER_00: Now this is now that's psychosis.
37:10
SPEAKER_00: I can I I can definitely think that that would qualify as psychosis.
37:15
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so what about this one?
37:16
SPEAKER_02: His his friend Dan Moran says Straussick calls him one night and says, Hey, I I saw my dad.
37:22
SPEAKER_02: Uh he's actually in homestead, in homestead collecting cans.
37:25
SPEAKER_00: And Strauzick's yeah, Straussick's father had died like eight years earlier.
37:28
SPEAKER_00: That's delusions.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: He should really be in a hospital right now.
37:33
SPEAKER_00: I mean, but just remember the criteria to get committed against your will, unless you do it voluntarily, is you have to be a harm to yourself or others.
37:44
SPEAKER_00: So that that so he has that that's the criteria you have to meet, by the way.
37:52
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
37:52
SPEAKER_02: Well, to your to your earlier point, he has a friend who actually is a physician and and determines that he's in an acute manic or psychotic state.
38:03
SPEAKER_02: So similar to what you just said.
38:05
SPEAKER_01: Yay!
38:06
SPEAKER_00: That's the doctor, yeah.
38:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's the official, yeah.
38:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
38:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
38:10
SPEAKER_02: And and and the and the doctor tries to get him to check into a hospital, but to no avail.
38:16
SPEAKER_02: On September 29th, Strauss calls his friend and tells him that Pittsburgh is full of evil people and he has to get out.
38:23
SPEAKER_00: That's paranoia.
38:26
SPEAKER_00: That's a paranoid.
38:29
SPEAKER_00: Keep getting worse.
38:30
SPEAKER_02: So he gets he gets in his pickup truck around 2 30 in the morning, he and he heads north to New York.
38:36
SPEAKER_02: He stops for gas and he asks the attendant if she believes in God.
38:40
SPEAKER_02: And when she says yes, he tells her that she has to get her children to higher ground.
38:45
SPEAKER_02: Gosh, this guy needs help.
38:47
SPEAKER_02: He keeps driving on the highway, and about 10 miles outside of Syracuse, he bumps another car in front of him and just keeps revving the engine faster, which obviously terrifies the guy driving the other car.
38:59
SPEAKER_02: State troopers try to pull him over and they even manage to puncture one of his tires.
39:04
SPEAKER_02: But Strelzick not only keeps going, but swerves across the median and into oncoming traffic for eight miles.
39:12
SPEAKER_02: Eight miles, Steve, in morning rush hour.
39:15
SPEAKER_02: He drives the wrong way at 90 miles an hour on three tires, passing hundreds of cars.
39:21
SPEAKER_02: It's it's an absolute miracle.
39:23
SPEAKER_02: Nobody doesn't kill anybody.
39:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
39:26
SPEAKER_02: Um, he he does eventually hit a tanker truck.
39:29
SPEAKER_02: There's a massive explosion.
39:31
SPEAKER_02: Thankfully, the tanker truck truck driver is okay, but Straussik is killed on impact at 36 years old.
39:37
SPEAKER_02: And when they do the autopsy, no alcohol, no drugs, nothing in his system.
39:43
SPEAKER_02: He just had a massive mental breakdown.
39:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that that's yeah, he his mental health for whatever reason went south in a hurry.
39:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:56
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he's kind of old for that too.
39:58
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I imagine he was in his 30s.
40:01
SPEAKER_00: 36.
40:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:03
SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of late.
40:06
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that happened in your you know, early teens not early, but late teens, early twenties, if you're gonna have a psychotic break.
40:15
SPEAKER_02: Do you think that could have had to do with all the collisions?
40:19
SPEAKER_00: I I don't know.
40:20
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I'm not an expert in that and I I wouldn't want to comment on that.
40:24
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it probably didn't help.
40:27
SPEAKER_00: Getting hit in the head repetitively probably isn't good.
40:29
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's all those old boxers are like that, you know, can't put two words together.
40:35
SPEAKER_02: No, no, his friend that was a physician that wanted him to check into the hospital and he's he didn't want to do it.
40:42
SPEAKER_02: There is a way, I believe, you can force people to do that.
40:46
SPEAKER_02: Is that correct?
40:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's I mean, once again, we're international nationally, but in the state of well, not in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, there is it's called a 302, which is an involuntary commitment, and the standard for that it would have to be brought in by the police or a family member or a doctor competition at the court.
41:09
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, this ain't the 1950s, we just don't lock people up and throw away the key.
41:14
SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
41:14
SPEAKER_00: You know, you have to be seen by a doctor and a judge and have a hearing.
41:20
SPEAKER_00: And if you're involuntarily, like against your will, voluntary, you can come and you know, you can sign yourself out, but you know, you just they they normally make you wait like a day or two just to make sure you're okay.
41:34
SPEAKER_00: But on a on a 302, which is a short 70 72 hour commitment, um, you'll have a hearing, and if the judge finds finds in your favor that you're okay, you're fine.
41:47
SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, if I'm sitting here and I think my neighbors have a computer that spies on me, it's okay.
41:55
SPEAKER_00: You know, people think weird things.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: You know, if I think, you know, the you know, the dogs in my neighborhood are talking to me and we just all want to be friends, that's fine.
42:06
SPEAKER_00: The problem is when the dogs in my neighborhood start telling me to kill other people and I decide to go around and start shooting people in cars.
42:15
SPEAKER_00: Okay, then I would be or I would be a danger to others or myself, or if I was, you know, going to harm myself, then that would that would be a problem.
42:25
SPEAKER_00: So that's the standard for the legal.
42:29
SPEAKER_00: And and you know, they just don't they don't walk you up and throw away the key.
42:32
SPEAKER_00: You have a hearing, the doctor reviews your case every day, and you know, it's only for a period of time, depending set by the judge, you know, on how long they need think you need to stay, and eventually, you know, the goal is to get you back to your life and to whatever except you know, level of care that you know, the least restrictive level of care is what they're looking for.
42:56
SPEAKER_00: You know, do you need to be on a locked facility for a minute and then you know, for a little bit and then be released back into the community when you're healthy again?
43:07
SPEAKER_00: And there's plenty of people that that happened they come in and it's just like anything else.
43:11
SPEAKER_00: Like if you go to the hospital for a broken leg, they're gonna treat that.
43:14
SPEAKER_00: And once your broken leg's healed or healed enough where you can go home and have therapy at home, they're gonna do that.
43:19
SPEAKER_00: And it's the same kind of thing.
43:21
SPEAKER_00: It's just people get all like, you know, think it's like, you know, they think like you're sitting on a couch talking to Sigmund Freud or something.
43:28
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't really completely work like that.
43:30
SPEAKER_00: I guess you could if you wanted to, and people have therapy sessions and such, and you know, there's outpatient groups and all kinds of great mental health stuff, especially in Pittsburgh.
43:41
SPEAKER_00: We have a lot of services for people.
43:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:43
SPEAKER_00: And it's just, you know, people, you know, and I'll give a I I I ha I looked up the numbers while we were doing this.
43:49
SPEAKER_00: Like uh at the end of the show, we can give some numbers on you know how people can seek help.
43:54
SPEAKER_00: Good idea.
43:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:56
SPEAKER_02: And and and and Steve, I think it's also a really good point that you raise the comparison.
44:00
SPEAKER_02: comparison to physical health.
44:02
SPEAKER_02: Because we we I don't know why we tend to miss that a lot in our culture.
44:07
SPEAKER_02: You know, if you if you you know if my leg really hurt and I was having trouble walking on it, you know, I would go go to the doctor and get treatment.
44:17
SPEAKER_02: But I think if we're struggling with our mental health, there's something there's just something taboo still about doing that.
44:22
SPEAKER_00: Well I think especially with men, I mean I I I me being a man, I can, you know, there there's like that, well I gotta take care of my family.
44:31
SPEAKER_00: I got some pride.
44:32
SPEAKER_00: What will my friends think?
44:34
SPEAKER_00: You know, and there probably still is some stigma.
44:36
SPEAKER_00: Well that guy, you know, watch out for him.
44:38
SPEAKER_00: He's a little we all have our stuff for sure.
44:41
SPEAKER_00: It's just varying degrees.
44:43
SPEAKER_00: And you know there's always you know you always see the shirts with it's okay not to be okay.
44:48
SPEAKER_00: And it is it is we all have our stuff and we're all dealing with our things every day and you know we just need to seek the you know most some people that's just going to church and finding God.
44:59
SPEAKER_00: There's some people that you know need intensive therapy and some people that go to therapy for a short time and then they're okay for the rest of their life you know or some people just need to get on some medicine and you know every once in a while they got to go back in because the meds need to adjust it.
45:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah it's it it just like I think that's we go back to that single oh where's this one thing we could do because that's it it doesn't life doesn't work like that.
45:24
SPEAKER_00: It would be a lot easier if it did you know what works for you Tim might not work for me.
45:30
SPEAKER_00: You know I'm allergic to penicillin are you if you're not you can take it and I can't yes it just what works in a medicine that works for you might not work for me or something might work better.
45:43
SPEAKER_00: And you know I know people get all fired up you know oh I don't want to take any psych and I would say if you can't don't but there is a lot of people out there that this really works for and trust me I I don't think at least the doctors I work with wouldn't put someone on something unless they absolutely needed it.
46:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah this isn't just a scam by the pharmaceutical companies to make a bunch of money.
46:12
SPEAKER_02: And and and and people wouldn't again we people wouldn't hesitate going back to my bad leg example wouldn't hesitate to take Advil or even some prescription thing that's stronger to help heal that but we hesitate to take anything that helps us with our mental health.
46:29
SPEAKER_00: Well even even if you do even if you have to take like you know people get wild up and I I did too like you know oh I don't want to take that oxycotton that's addictive.
46:37
SPEAKER_02: But you know what if you take it as prescribed and you just keep it to the bare minimum you're not gonna get it you you know you just have to because there's people that are severe pain that need that right right but but but and that's what I mean like when but when it comes to mental health like what you said about men especially too because I I used to be like that.
46:58
SPEAKER_02: I mean I I I was the same way like I held everything in it caused a lot of problems and and I've I've been in counseling and I'm with you mentioned church I'm with a group of guys in my church who I can open up to now and that's been so healthy but I think that that was a tough thing for me to come around to because like you said our culture is one where you know for women that might be fine but for men no we've got to tough it out where men we've got to like you said provide or we have all these false beliefs um so yeah totally agree that that's something that I I I hope continues to be destigmatized.
47:37
SPEAKER_02: I think it's definitely much less of a taboo thing than it was 20 years ago 30 years ago 50 years ago for sure um but it's still it's still taboo I think to some degree.
47:49
SPEAKER_02: So all right we talked about some guys from the 70s Steelers I one guy from that team who's often overlooked is guard Sam Davis.
47:59
SPEAKER_02: He's not only a veteran of all four Super Bowl teams and a member of the Steelers Hall of Honor, he was also an important leader on that team and here's a really good trivia question that you can impress your friends with because I think even a lot of diehard Steelers fans would probably get this wrong ask them who was the offensive captain of those 1970s Steelers teams and most people would probably say well it's Franco or Terry Bradshaw or Mike Webster or John Stalworth but no it was Sam Davis.
48:30
SPEAKER_02: He was the captain of those teams because he was the guy who always guided the younger players and he really knew the playbook inside and out.
48:38
SPEAKER_02: He was also really smart and ambitious he even worked in sales for Heinz during his playing career Steve that's why he wore the number 57 clever yeah yeah uh and after his career he becomes a successful entrepreneur.
48:54
SPEAKER_02: He starts several ventures including a construction business he drives a black Mercedes he wears pinstripe suits so unlike some of the other guys we talked about he seemingly has no trouble adapting to post football life well that all changes on the morning of September 8th 1991 his wife finds him motionless on the floor of their basement and he's badly injured and when when they get him medical help and he finally comes to he tells everyone that he fell but it sure looks like someone did this to him and his ex-teammates and his friends and I think even his wife all say he was beaten and tortured possibly by people he owed money to in one of his business ventures one friend says that a few weeks before Davis had come to him desperate for money he also apparently owed a bunch of money in federal taxes.
49:48
SPEAKER_02: Oh boy so you know he has this supposedly bad accident but a lot of people think it's foul play and his life really falls apart after that his mental acuity really declines.
50:00
SPEAKER_02: His wife says that he would sit in their living room thinking that he was in the Steelers locker room talking to teammates who weren't there.
50:06
SPEAKER_02: Wow and he and their kids are forced to live off of Social Security benefits because he can't work after that wow uh I don't know what that yeah that's that's quite the down I mean somebody really either he fell down the stairs somehow his head got injured in 91 there looks like right he uh he eventually lands in an assisted living facility and he suffers from dementia he's declared legally blind he goes missing from the nursing home in 2019 and they find him dead at the bottom of a set of stairs in the nursing home.
50:42
SPEAKER_02: Oh my that doesn't sound like good either what was he doing just uh whatever I I believe his family I believe his family did sue the nursing home saying that they were negligent.
50:53
SPEAKER_02: I mean if he was legally blind and having dementia I would think you would keep a close eye on him or they put a little monitor on the people that they think wander you know the the other thing that I think they were upset about was I think he was missing for a full day or so and they were searching canvassing like the neighborhoods around there and he was actually i in a stairwell in the nursing home.
51:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah that that's not that's unfortunately happened you know more than once and that that's I can't nursing home that's that's no fun.
51:28
SPEAKER_00: You don't want to yeah that's why I'm uh you know I'm I'm I'm rooting for the you know heart attack in the parking lot at like you know go quickly yeah yeah yeah yeah so that's a really sad end for Sam Davis and again one of those guys that probably not as heralded although again he's in the Steelers all of honor it's not like the Steelers haven't acknowledged his contributions.
51:51
SPEAKER_00: It's like these these guys kind of go under the radar maybe that's why you don't we don't know a lot of these stories is because like they're offensive linemen and it's like you know I mean even guys on like the two recent two or three recent Super Bowl teams like we kind of know of them but you know yeah yeah it's true.
52:11
SPEAKER_02: And that's kind of the the life of an offensive lineman I mean they get paid well because NFL football people understand how important the position is but from a fan perspective they don't have stats you're not gonna have fantasy points.
52:25
SPEAKER_02: So from a from a fan perspective Jonathan Ogden used to give me all kinds of fantasy points so let's talk about another guard it's Carlton Hasselrigg played for the Steelers between 1989 and 1993 and what a tremendous story this guy was because most guys who make it to the NFL they were usually you know one of the best players on their college team right but not Carlton Hasselrig.
52:50
SPEAKER_00: In fact he doesn't play football at all in college instead remember what sport he played Steve he was a wrestler he was a wrestler I think he did he win I think he won stuff as a collegiate wrestler yeah yeah he was a successful collegiate wrestler not he just didn't wrestle yeah yeah he he ends up at Division II Pitt Johnstown he grew he grows up in Johnstown PA uh his parents are both alcohol and drug addicts but his uncle teaches him how to wrestle and while he's at Pitt Johnstown to to your point Steve he wins six NCAA wrestling titles and he's so dominant in fact that the NCAA has to change its roles to disallow Division II wrestlers into Division I competitions because Halzelrig was embarrassing all the D1 programs by being I I knew he was really good and and you know what and people don't realize this but I've all I've noticed this over the years wrestling translates well to offense and defensive line I don't know if it's just the mechanics or some of the training is very similar but guys that were good wrestlers in high school in college normally translate well to either defensive lineman or an offensive lineman for whatever for whatever reason yeah yeah and House of Riggs one of those guys.
54:19
SPEAKER_02: I think of the McKill the McKillops the both mps wrestled and they they had okay yeah at high school yeah very good example and and after college yeah he thinks about maybe training for the Olympics but instead he's he enters the NFL draft and the Steelers select him in the 12th round which is a round that doesn't even exist anymore.
54:40
SPEAKER_02: Right there's only seven rounds now.
54:42
SPEAKER_02: So twelve 12th round is like your undrafted free that's not even your undrafted free agents that's like the very bottom of the barrel of your undrafts we're taking we're taking a flyer on this guy he's he's a really good wrestler maybe turns out if he doesn't nobody's lost yeah that's exactly right he'll he'll be on the list of like the first guys we cut in camp after like week one you know yeah like well it's still like early August so so instead Hasserig not only makes the team he becomes a starter and he makes the Pro Bowl he makes the Pro Bowl in his third season.
55:17
SPEAKER_02: That's wild for a guy that never played college football.
55:22
SPEAKER_02: So wow what a great story uh but then unfortunately things start to go downhill in 1993 he misses minicamp because he's in a Bettyford clinic after getting a DUI in September of that season he tests positive for cocaine and misses four games while in drug rehab so he's in alcohol and drug rehab in 93.
55:45
SPEAKER_02: During training camp in 94 Hasserwick literally disappears the Steelers don't know where he is his wife doesn't know where he is they file a missing persons report.
55:57
SPEAKER_02: He turns up at a motel by the airport three weeks later in not real good shape and then later that season he vanishes again this time he shows up driving his Jeep up the steps of the Pittsburgh Theological Seminary I remember that yeah oh man yeah he's he's charged with DUI and malicious malicious mischief but he fails to show up for a preliminary hearing then he fights with police when they attempt to bring him in oh goodness could you could you imagine there's police oh my god yeah trying to bring in an offensive lineman wrestler yeah good luck yeah good luck with all that yeah yeah so so all of that costs him his job with the Steelers it costs him his marriage uh he he does like seemingly have moments after that where he looks like he's on the road to recovery he plays in the arena league he has a very brief MMA career he coaches wrestling back in Johnstown he even gets remarried and opens a restaurant with his new wife but uh all those years of hard living catch up with him and he passes away at age 54 it's a shame addiction issues that that's yeah it is very similar to like Joe Gillum like very Joe Gillum kind of feel to it like this very talented a guy that just the addiction issues got got the better of him for a while.
57:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah and and it sucks because like I said before he he grew up with parents who were addicts.
57:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah well and when it's so hard to break that cycle you know um and then you and then you pass it on to your kids and they pass it on to their kids and you wonder how lot far that goes back.
57:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah like a family trade almost yeah so sad story for him really could have had a had a you know Hall of Fame career potentially honestly the trajectory he was going so just yeah just very unfortunate um to wrap up this episode I want to note a few other guys whose time with the Steelers was a bit shorter uh so I'm not gonna go as in depth but they had their share of struggles.
58:04
SPEAKER_02: So Dan Turk was a long snapper for the Steelers.
58:08
SPEAKER_02: He was drafted by them he played for them in 85 and 86 but he's better known as a Raider and a redskin.
58:15
SPEAKER_02: He actually ends up snapping to his brother punter Matt Turk in Washington.
58:19
SPEAKER_02: Sadly he contracts testicular cancer and dies at age 38.
58:26
SPEAKER_02: Jim Clack was a Steelers starting left guard in Super Bowl nine uh he's he was also unfortunately the center for the Giants on the miracle uh at the Meadowlands play I I don't believe it yeah so not not not his best moment in football there I what was the play call I forgot the stupid play call it was like slide right slide right 88 or something stupid yeah yeah I mean it was Fazarchek hands off to Larry Zonka and just kind of like slams into the line of scrimmage why they no why nobody thought to take an E back then I don't know it was what was the what was the San Ritigliano call in Cleveland that was red right 88 yeah yeah but uh jim clack dies of cancer at 58 uh james parrish was a tackle on that Super Bowl thirty team uh he he actually is notable for being one of the first athletes to launch his own website oh wow he actually teaches himself how to use a computer and build websites he dies of cancer though at age 35.
59:29
SPEAKER_02: Wow uh Tyrone McGriff was Mr.
59:33
SPEAKER_02: Irrelevant he was the final player selected in the 1980 draft but he ends up playing three seasons for the Steelers at Guard he even starts 10 games for them so that's pretty good for Mr.
59:43
SPEAKER_02: Irrelevant.
59:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah he does of a heart attack at 41 and then Bernard Daphne only plays one season for the Steelers in 1996.
59:52
SPEAKER_00: He's actually Straussic's backup at tackle he dies at age 37 of a heart attack Wow so I mean that there are five people plus backups that make the team I mean how many offensive linemen do you carry on a team on your 53 roster like eight?
1:00:10
SPEAKER_02: You carry maybe eight you know and there's turnover.
1:00:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah so you have eight people every year for from for the last 50 years.
1:00:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah but it's a lot of times it's the same guy Steve I mean Mike Webster and Rayman were there for you know yeah I mean I'm just trying to say it's like this sounds like everybody that played offensive line for the Steelers had like a tragic end.
1:00:31
SPEAKER_02: No no of course not it's not everybody but it's still in it's still in not a good percentage.
1:00:38
SPEAKER_02: No it's not if we looked at linebackers for example you know you probably keep the same number of linebackers and probably have the same number of linebackers or defensive backs right and you don't have the same level of I bet running backs I wonder if running running backs always like are hurt but they don't last as long though it seems like running back like maybe it's like these guys played longer because it's harder to notice their decline.
1:01:04
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
1:01:04
SPEAKER_00: I don't know it just seems like it seems like these guys really I mean taking a beating like that for well now 17 weeks a season what a genius yeah what ways NFL yeah what a genius idea this that is.
1:01:19
SPEAKER_00: So yeah and and and going back to what we said at the beginning of the episode you can't really boil it down to one thing right they're gonna they're gonna have to expand the roster to like 75 people or something because 53 ain't gonna make it but but all this tragedy you just you know again it's it's complicated right it's different for every guy I think so all right Steve did you want to give out some of these numbers oh yeah yeah if you are struggling with your mental health if you're feeling like you you know don't want to wake up in the morning or if you have any thoughts of suicide if you've ever thought about it if you ever attempted it please please please tell somebody tell a family member a friend somebody can call if you're our nationwide in the United States there is a text number 988 is the suicide and crisis line um also in Allegheny County if you live in Pittsburgh there is the let's see resolve crisis services um they are open 24 hours 888 796 8226 um you can call them anytime somebody will talk to you if you need this somebody come over they'll check on you please I can't stress this enough if you're feeling a you can't wait you don't want to wake up in the morning if you had thoughts of harming yourself if you made a plan you picked a day please call these numbers find help you know there's a hospital in Pittsburgh Western Psychiatric hospital you can walk right into the fifth floor you can walk right in the front door and there are just loads of people in that building that will absolutely help you and get you back to your life and get you on your way so um that's all I have to say about that Tim um we got to take our mental health seriously here and um just something that is close to my heart and um just just hope that everybody and you know we're on your side and we're praying for you and the folks out there that are struggling and you know just to hope that you know you can find find that help that you need.
1:03:26
SPEAKER_02: Couldn't agree more Steven thanks thanks for sharing all that thanks everybody for listening and we will catch you next time