Latest / The Jacksonville Jaguars Official Podcast Network / The O-Zone Podcast | Matt Miller of ESPN Discusses the 2025 Draft Being a Line of Scrimmage Draft & Investing in the Trenches

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The O-Zone Podcast | Matt Miller of ESPN Discusses the 2025 Draft Being a Line of Scrimmage Draft & Investing in the Trenches · The Jacksonville Jaguars Official Podcast Network

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Oh zoo. Welcome to the Ozone Podcast with Jaguars senior
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: writer John Osher.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: All Right, welcome to this week's Ozone podcast, and now
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: I am joined this week by Matt Miller of ESPN.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: I think most people who cover the draft and follow
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: this recognize you. Fourth year at ESPN, Yes, sir, after
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: time goes quick Man, ten years at Bleacher reporter for
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: a ESPN and now I feel really old.
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: Haven't put that map together?
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Well, you're not old. I know that because I'm old.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: So the first question, tell me about this year's draft.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: You cover it from a broad perspective, you work on
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: it year round. Give me maybe two or three defining
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: characteristics of this draft as you think about it.
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: This is an offensive line defensive line draft. It's about
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: the line of scrimmage. Really, the defensive tackle group the
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: deepest maybe ever seen. Okay, we're gonna see thirty guys
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: in the top in this draft just a defensive tackle.
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: We might see thirty guys at defensive end and defensive
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: tackle in the top four rounds. So it's really deep there.
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: It's a good offensive line class, a lot of tackles
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: who may end up being guards in the NFL. But
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: I think we'll see excuse me, seven or eight first
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: round players on the offensive line. So this is year
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: Round one is gonna be dominated by the trenches. But
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: it's a good running back class. It's a good tight
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: end class as well.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: And it's it seems the Jaguars in many people's opinion,
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: need line on both sides. When you say it goes deep,
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: if you get a guy in the fourth round, is
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: that immediate impact? Is that long term? How would you
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: describe maybe that middle round because you assume the first
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: couple guys are gonna be able to play, but this
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: team needs contributions deep.
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: I think this year where you can find those contributions
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: in round four, round five, especially at defensive tackle. It's
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: more about like your scheme right, Like they're gonna be
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: nos ackles in rounds four and five. Sure are coming
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: in start right away. You know, the premiere three techniques,
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: the six technique. Defensive ends, they're going to come off
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: the board much earlier because that pass rush ability. But
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: you're always able to like unearth some guys, players slip
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: through the cracks, or guys develop, you know, once they
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: get drafted. So this is it is a good year
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: to have those early Day three picks. I think that's
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: kind of where the drop off in this draft class happens.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: This guy, Round five is where you probably hit the floor.
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: Unlike last year. It's a deep draft, right, Yeah, last
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: year was you know, really really deep as well. This
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: is another good year, especially in those middle rounds.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: Gotcha.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: James Gladstone on with the Jaguars as the new general manager.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Liam Cohne is new head coach, will stick to maybe
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: what the Rams do historically, because that's where James Gladstones
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: comes from.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: For Jaguars fans.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Who are going to be watching this, who are draft
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: knicks who sort of get into it close to the
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: level you do, what should they be watching for and
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: what has defined Los Angeles philosophical.
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, the days of not having first round
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: picks in Los Angeles is gone, right, They went away
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: from that, and I think the philosophy that I picked
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: up from the Rams the last couple of drafts is
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: they are drafting players who were highly productive at major
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: universities and can get on the field right away. So
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: under Trent Balky, Jaguar fans will remember it was all
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: about traits, It's all about arm length, speed, things like, Yeah,
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: So it was very traits based scouting, and I think
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: with Gladstone what you're going to see is traits still matter,
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: of course, but production matters as much as that. So
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: like with the Rams this past year, you know, they
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: take Jared Vers and Braden Fiske their first two picks,
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: highly productive guys from one of the best defenses in
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: college football when they came out from Florida State and
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: they were able to get on the field and play
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: right away. And I think that type of philosophy of
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: you want day one impact players. So the days of
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: betting on even this exemple like Trevon Walker over Aiden Hutchinson,
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: that would not happen as a general manager because you're
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: taking the guy that, hey, I've been watching him for
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: three years produce at Michigan. We feel confident he's going
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: to continue to do that in the NFL as opposed
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: to and Travon's been a good player, right, but I
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: think everyone would agree he was drafted on the upside
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: and the traits instead of the proven ability.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Now the opposite way that, because many teams go the
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: other way and have success. To the average person, well,
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: of course you would take the most productive guy. But
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: teams also there is a school of thought the other
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: way as well.
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: The absolutely is since where you know, the projection side
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: of it is huge, and teams will look at a
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: player and say, okay, well, once we get him in
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: our system and once we get him around our coaches,
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: just think of the possibilities. Right. It's almost like a
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: Christmas present on Christmas morning. You can't wait to open
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: it and see what it is. Right. But my experience,
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: and this is something in my own philosophy I've been
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: working on the last couple of years, is how often
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: do those players hit? What is the hit rate when
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: you draft? For measurables over production? And I think that's
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: kind of sweeping the NFL right now a little bit
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: too with the Rams success, with the Eagles having so
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: much success. This is something the Ravens have done forever, right,
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: you know, they just draft highly productive, really good football players.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: And I'm curious about the approach of the Eagles. For example,
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: they won the Super Bowl. So usually it's it's a
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: monkey see monkey do league. They have historically gone line
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: line and then productive skilled players. Do you see that
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: being a trend? You see teams following.
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: That model, I do, I think, and especially in this draft,
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: because where this draft is so strong on the line
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: of scrimmage, I think we'll see teams go to that model.
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: And also especially you know, those those front offices are
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: now you know, breeding the next gms and area scalts
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: and things like that, and so I think we'll see
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: that philosophy spread to some degree of let's invest in
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: the trenches. Let's build teams almost from the inside out.
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: You know, make sure you have the quarterback obviously, but
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: then once you have the quarterback, let's build up the
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: line of scrimmage and then you can then you can
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: go add you know some of the fun pieces like
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: wide receiver and running back.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Does that take some I guess willingness to not listen
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: to Twitter when you do that.
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it definitely takes patience, Yeah too, right, because it's
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: everybody wants, you know, the exciting new toy. Sure, Brian
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: Thomas is a great pick. Everybody wants that every year, right,
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: But you know, sometimes it's taken the right guard, you know,
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: in the in the second round instead of another receiver
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: or running back is the right move. And now I
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: think there's proof in that where you can point to
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: Philadelphia and say, hey, look what they did. And even
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: on the flip side, you could point to Kansas City
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: and say, you know, they needed a left tackle and
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: they took a wide receiver. Now wide receiver was really good,
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: but didn't help win a super Bowl, even though he
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: had eight catches and two touchdowns.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: And their super Bowl losses have come when the line
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: is struggled, exactly.
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: So I think now you can, you know, objectively, point
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: to successes and failures in the NFL and say, like,
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: the Chiefs are a dynasty, they're two super Bowl losses
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: because they couldn't protect my homes. And so that's where
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: I think you would want to go back to that
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: idea of let's resist the urge to get the shiny,
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: you know, fancy prospects. Let's build the line of scrimmage.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: Tell me who you believe Jaguars taking five, but more importantly,
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: sort of how the first four picks get there to
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: make that happen.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Does that make sense?
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Absolutely, So we'll do a little mini mock drafts. Right, So,
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: I think one, Abdull Carter, if the Titans keep the
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: pick two, I'll say cam Ward to the Browns. Three
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: Shadoor Sanders to the to the Giants for Travis Hunter
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: to the Patriots. So I would say Mason Graham the
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: defensive tackle.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: Which seems to be if you look at eighty mock drafts.
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Travis Hunters there takes care, right. I know we've
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: been saying line of scrimmage, line scrimmage and scrimmage. He's
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: he's a different type of prospect, right, But Mason Grahm
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: would be fantastic, And I do think even connect the
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: dots to Gladstone coming in his general maaguer what they
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: did last year with Braden Fisk, especially, Mason Graham is
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: just a little bit of an upgraded version of that.
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: So you get your three technique. A guy who never
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: loses on tape. Does he have fifteen sacks a year, No,
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: but he never loses, right, And in that way, he's
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: a lot like a guy like Quinn Williams, So it's
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: coming out he's a lot like Christian Wilkins was for
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: the Miami Dolphins, or Matabouque with the Raiders, another type
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: of guy who's had that type of success. So I
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: think if Mason Graham's there and those four players are
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: off the board, that's an easy pick for me.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: A couple of thoughts.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: There is Mason Graham, the type everything you're hearing at
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: the combine. Maybe not the perfect physical specimen, Yeah he's
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: going to blow you away in the airport, but an
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: absolute player on the field.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: So he absolute fits what we're talking about.
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: A little bit short armed, you know, he's not he's
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: not six', five you, know three twenty five and gonna
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: run a four to. Eight it's not who he, is
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: but he is a dominant. Player his ability to just
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: disrupt what the offensive line wants to. Do it's consistent and,
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: again LIKE i think sometimes when we watch, football it's
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: like you want to see the impact. Plays, well sometimes
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: it's the guy who's setting those impact plays. Up, sure
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: and that was him Consistently. Michigan michigan doesn't let their
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: defensive lineman just pin their ears back and go a,
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: lot which is why every year it feels like we
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: have A michigan first rounder on the d line and
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: you look at their, stats you're, like how's this? Guy
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: first round? Pick you didn't, have you, know it didn't.
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: Have he's just a great. Player So graham would be
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: one of those like foundational pieces it's somebody that now
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: you're able to build a team around.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: It now you kind of picked up something that you
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: know has been discussed in different. Places i've been around
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: the Combine Travis. Hunter even for a team like The
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: jaguars that clearly not only needs, line but their higher
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: ups are talking about that being absolutely. Critical yet along
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: comes a guy who might make them, wait, yeah for
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: a round or a year or, two start addressing.
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: That, yeah and he. Is he's different because he fills
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: two needs at. Once, okay you, know because he can
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: play corner and wide receiver or however you see, it
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: wide receiver and then some. CORNER i think that checking
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: two boxes is what makes him such a unique player
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: to where you would maybe. Bypassing And i'll tell YOU
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: i Have Mason graham grated very closely To Travis, hunter
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: so like there would be some conflict, there like what
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: route do we go if he happens to be on the,
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: board what do we? DO i think the good news
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: with The jagson is probably not gonna be on the,
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: Board so you have to have that conversation and you
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: can go back to the original plan Of And i've
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: heard them talk about it as, well if, like, okay
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: we got a control line of scrimmage've got to build
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: the inside.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Here take me.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: Through just a couple of the defensive, tackle offensive. Line
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: are the top physician. Groups maybe give me two or
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: three guys at each spot that you.
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: Like, yeah so the defensive line GROUP i. DO i
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: Love Abdul carter And Mason. Graham they're both in my
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: top three players, overall so huge fans of what they.
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: DO i Like Walter nolan From ole miss a. LOT
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: i heard he won't be working out. Here i'm a
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: little bit bummed to not see, that But i'm a
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: fan of his, ability especially if you're looking for a,
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: penetrator somebody that can go get after the. Quarterback he's a,
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: highly highly athletic guy on the offensive. LINE i think
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: this class has been almost disrespected a little. Bit it's
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: a good. Class Will campbell And Kelvin banks both started
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: for three years in the s see they were week
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: one starters as true. Freshman Kelvin banks gave up three
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: sacks in three. Years, okay that's fascinating to. Me and
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: he's not being talked about as you, know people, say,
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: oh he's Not Joe, Old he's not been a school
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: and he's a pretty good. Player you, know three sacks
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: in three. Years going Against georgia twice this, year only
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: gave up one. Sack things to, play everyone remembers and
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: it's kind of been held against. Him but it is
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: a good tackle. CLASS i would throw Armand membo From
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: missouri in. There he's a right tackle who might end
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: up playing guard because he's a little bit under six foot,
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: Four but it Is it is a good offensive line.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Class how.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: Secondary is another area of The jaguars. Need it feels
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: like line is their priority and they have to figure
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: out how to address. Secondary how does that work throughout
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: the draft this year in terms of being able to
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: find guys to contribute in the secondary as you move,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: on maybe a round three and.
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: Four, yeah it's not the deepest secondary. Draft it's really.
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: NOT i think at safety there's a little bit more
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: depth in rounds three and round. Four guys Like Xavier
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: wats From Notre dame potentially could be the top around.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: Three andrew mccooba From, Texas Billy bowman From, oklahoma they're
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: in that round, three round four. Range they could be rookie.
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: Starters they could be impact, guys especially at free. Safety
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: the corner, class it's just it's not a deep corner.
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: There Trey amos From Ole miss probably gonna be a
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: top round two. Guy Osirea thomas From Florida state probably
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: be a top around two, guy but there's a pretty
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: significant drop off after like the fifth corner to where
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: you're almost reaching a little.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: Bit got you final, question BECAUSE i could talk all
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: day to you about the. Draft wide Receiver Brian Thomas
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: junior is, there, obviously but it would be good for
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: this offense to be able to pick up one more
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: guy opposite. Him is that available in the draft round
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: two or? Three can you find a guy like?
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: That you absolutely. CAN'T i think finding complimentary guys that's
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: where this wide receiver class is. Good maybe it doesn't
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: have like last year with all the wide receiver one,
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: types but there's a lot of good wide receiver two
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: types in this. Class Matthew golden From texas is probably
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: going to be at the top round, two round. Three
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: there's two guys From Iowa, State Jayden higgins And Jalen,
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: noel both to be very good complimentary. Players Jalen royles
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: From Utah state would give you a little bit more
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: athleticism underneath a guy who can make things. Happen after The,
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: Cats she's got a really, physical strong lower. Body it's
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: gonna give, you not to you, know give FANS, ptsd
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: but kind of Like Leviska chanlt you, know in terms of.
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: BUILD i think he's farther along as the receiver Than leavisco.
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: Was but this is a good. YEAR i think in
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: those day, two even early day three to get a
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: complimentary wide.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: OUT i know fans hearing this are gonna want more
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: From Matt. Miller we can watch you ON espn to
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: get that.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: Right they, can, yeah or check out articles ON espn dot.
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: Com will be putting those. Out feels like every day
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: between now and the draft there will be something.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: Great job as, ALWAYS i appreciate you. Joining, Thanks thank
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: you body