Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / The Krim Family Murders

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The Krim Family Murders · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Sometimes in life you're wronged by those who are closest
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: to you, or the ones you would least expect. In
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: the case of the Krim Family murders, it comes from
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: a source they would least expect, from a person they
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: led in their home and their children loved. But all
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: it took was one day for this person to be
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: pushed too far, and it all ended in an absolute bloodbath.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: This is the story of the Krim Family murders.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: and Grim.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: A true crime podcast. The following podcast material intended for
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: a mature audience. Listener discretion advice. How do I look?
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Do I look good enough for the podcast? Right now?
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: I think so?
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: I think so.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I look at your fancy glasses. Finally, after speak
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: talking about this for like probably two years, I bet
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: you fair enough.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Fair enough. But I am now thirty six years old
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: and I officially have dork vision.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: What.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: No, I think glasses can be like. I feel like
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: they can be pretty like. I don't know.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: I don't see stylish.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: It's dorkish. I think it's almost like sophisticated.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: No, I have nothing against glasses. Absolutely nothing, but it's
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: just fun to call it dork vision. I guess it's
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: not like I'm actually going to go up to someone
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: wearing glasses. Are you nice glasses? Dork? No, It's just
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: something to just joke about because I'm wearing them. You know.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: I also got new glasses, but I already wore glasses,
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: so I don't think this anyone would ever notice.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: So you're still a door.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: Probably more so because my uh prescription actually went up
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: like big time.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah you needed this, Yeah, so where's me? I mean,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: I needed it too, but my prescription's pretty low.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: I was getting like little headaches and I kind of
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: think it was to do with that, just because I
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: was kind of straining. But also I am apparently so
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: sore of my glasses all the time, and I maybe
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: wore them, Like what would you say, Well, I have
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: five percent of the day. Oh, yes, five percent, because
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: they wear them when I'm working.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Barely half the time. You're halfway through working, you're like, oh,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: I need my glasses.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: No, No, when I'm on the computer, I'm always wearing them.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: A larky but anyway, so yeah, now I'm trying to
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: wear them, you know, a lot more and it's actually helping.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: That's good.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Imagine that.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: That's good. I didn't have the glasses or you didn't
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: have your new glasses for a two hundredth episode, which
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: would have been nice dimly lit, you know, brewery reading
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: the laptop was not the easyest thing.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: But hey, it was still wicked and you did good.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was wicked and it was.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Grim, yeah, very much.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: So if you guys haven't listened to it, it did
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: come out. It's our two hundredth episode. The video will
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: be coming out on YouTube here in the coming days.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: We got to do a bit of catch up on
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: that first. But yeah, with this two hundredth episode occurring,
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: the live version of it, this officially marks us doing
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: an episode every Tuesday and every Friday, So we are
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: officially two times a week here over in Wicked and Grim.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: Now yeah, wild wild, And I just wanted to say too,
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: it's like a thank you to everyone that came to
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: our live We were pretty blown away. It was a bit,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: i don't know, intimidating, yeah, but it was also just
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: like anxiety. It just like warmed your heart a little
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: though terrifying. Oh my gosh, because I remember at one point,
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: I can't remember. I think we were getting door price
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: tickets ready or something, and you were like you were
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: like make sure you take like a look around or whatever. Yeah,
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: because it was like really cool, really really cool.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Was a packed house. People were there to support us,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: to listen to the show, and then we also had
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: our Patreon live stream going, which had a bunch of
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: people in that too. Our audio for that was a
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: little bit terrible, so we've got to figure out a
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: solution for that in the future.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: But yeah, well, and I think we might try to
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: do a couple of live Patreon shows too at some point. Yeah,
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: I think so in the coming months.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we had fun doing that, so I think, yeah,
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: well we'll start doing some more live Patreon only stuff. Yeah,
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: because why not.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because we're always we're we want to include
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: you in these live events locally and stuff. But then
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: it'd be neat to have one just specific and you
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: know all of our attentions to.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: That and exactly we've done some in the past, but
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: I think we need to do more regularly.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it'd be fun. So you're ready for
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: this case today, Well, don't we have some patrons today?
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Oh? Right? We were just talking about Patreon, So my bad.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: We once Nicole has her shit together and Ben doesn't.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: Apparently I should just note too, I'm supposed to be
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: doing this episode, but we're we're doing my episode on Friday. Now.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: It's like ninety five percent done.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: Well right when we hit record on this, You're like,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: I got like an hour left right now, search, but
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: mine's done, so I might as well just do mine
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: and then yours can be for a Friday.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there we go.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: So what is happening?
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: It is happening. Yeah, yeah, and it's a doozy of
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: a case, which yours kind of sounds like it is
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: as well.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well I do know someone out there, Larissa is
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: specifically I wouldn't say looking forward to this case, but
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: has cursed you out on social media or that. I know.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: I meant to respond to that, but yeah, Larissa, it
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: is that one. So prepare yourself if you can.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: But yeah, anyways, we got to thank some Patreon subscribers,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: So thank you to Denise, Samantha Gutsky, Haley, I'm probably
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: gonna butcher your name, but I'm gonna give it my
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: best shot here, Hailey Sinkwicks and zach Rice nice, thank
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: you very much for sending to Patreon.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: We appreciate that so freaking much. We do.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: You guys are incredible, even though I might have forgot
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: to thank you this week if it wasn't for Nicole.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: So thank you for Nicole for reminding me as well.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Oh that's okay, we forgive you.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Thank you appreciate it. Okay, So this is the Krim
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Family murders. And shout out to a friend, Darcy overhead
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: at Crimson Down Collective, for recommending this case to me.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: I was talking to her. She said, oh, should look
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: into this one, and I was like, oh, yeah, I'll
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: probably do that one soon. And then I read an
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: article about it and I'm like, I think I'm going
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: to do it real soon. So here we are. Hey, yeah, okay,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: so today we talk about not only the Krim Family murders,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: but a story of an individual named Joscelin or Tega. Okay, so,
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: Yoscelin was born in the Dominican Republic on May first
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty two. Her family was not a small one,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: and it was one of you know, eight children, So
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: it's a bit of a bustle in home, right her
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: parents owned a owned a grocery store where the children
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: helped at a young age, which is a typical practice
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: for many people and families in that era. You know,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: like the kids working on the farm. You know, we've
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: got to have more kids, we have more hands working
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: around crops and whatever sort of mindset. But that's besides
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: the point. So because of their successful business, their family
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: was living a life that was fairly comfortable as far
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: as local standards go. And Jocelyn's life, however, would take
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: a different and dramatic shift at the age of sixteen,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: and this was when her twelve year old sister Rosa
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: died unexpectedly from her brain.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Aneurysm Oh jeez.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So when she looked back on her life in
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: her later years, it was clear to see that this
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: tragic event was the beginning of her struggles with depression.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: Like many who suffer from depression, Joslin became reclusive and
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: shut out to many of those who were close to her,
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: and she did so for probably about a year at least.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: She began experiencing persistent headaches that came along with it. Now,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: as if dealing with depression wasn't quite enough, these headaches
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: seemed to bring along an even darker aspect with it.
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  Speaker 1: During this time, she also started hearing voices. These voices
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: were things of absolute nightmares, and she said that they
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: would urge her to hurt herself, and not only herself,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: but also those around her as well. Oh, my friends
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: or family or whoever's in the home or who she's with.
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  Speaker 2: That's terrifying for both her and others.
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  Speaker 1: No kidding. Yeah, Now, despite what they were saying to her, though,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: she consistently was able to resist listening to them, doing
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: her best to ignore and brush them off. But it
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: wasn't easy. They were very persistent. They nagged, and they
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: would describe sorry, and she would describe the voices as
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: external to her mind, which basically means that these voices
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: aren't like in her head. She could actually hear them
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  Speaker 1: like audibly, like talking to her okay, which is I
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: think scarier if you ask me.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's terrifying.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no kidding, And they would actually often get loud
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: enough to wake her up at night and even prevent
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: her from sleeping at times.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: Oh man.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so this was not a good thing that she
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: was going through. Yeah, but she was consistently just doing
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: her best to ignore them whenever she.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: Could, and probably I mean, I'm doing this more so alone,
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: right I'm assuming.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Yes, Yeah, there's not a whole lot of discussion or
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: talks about this.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: Back then and stuff.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean like back then. It's not only
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: back then, but it's also in the Dominican Republic too, Right,
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: mental health conditions were heavily stigmatized at that time in
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: the sixties, but also over in the Dominican Republic. It
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: wasn't really something that people really took seriously having in
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: all honesty, probably for not even since like the last
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: couple decades, was it really something that people were like, hey,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: we should actually maybe maintain look into andreap this sort
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: of shit and take I mean, honestly, it's.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: Come so far, but it still needs to come further
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: in that Like, I mean, people are afraid to talk
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: about it. It's talked about a lot more, but it
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: could be talked about even.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: More, I think definitely. But for you also, and though
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: she was afraid a lot of repercussions would come towards
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: her for if she were to talk about this, for
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: being labeled loco quote unquote or crazy, right, so she
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: kept all of this to herself, never speaking about it
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: and not seeking any help. Now, despite her struggles and
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: hiding what she was enduring, she persisted in life. In
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five, she was she completed a degree in
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: accounting and relocated to the Big Apple Okay, Old New
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: York City. That's impressive, it is. And when she moved there,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: one of her sisters had already made the move there
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: as well and was living there, and it made it
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: a lot easier for her to make that transition to
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: live with her sister. Right, And so her life was
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: now going well in this new country. And by nineteen
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: ninety five, Joscelyn was married and gave birth to a
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: beautiful baby boy she named Jesus.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: Wow Okay okay.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Now. Despite the new life, her marriage, though, was unstable
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: and eventually ended in divorce a few years later in
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine, which prompted her to move to the
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Dominican Republic to continue to raise her son. Now, she
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: did yearn for what she had experienced in the USA.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: In New York. She loved it, She wanted that, and
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: she knew that there was more opportunity there, and she
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: knew that there was more financial prospects to potentially raise
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: her son and support her son. So she moved back
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: to the States and made the very difficult decision of
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: leaving her son in the care with her sister while
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: she did go back to New York. Oh okay, Also,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: my mic is like sliding down here. Okay, I think
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: my mic is tightened up and a get good enough.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: You got your shit together.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: Again, I think so, I hope.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: So maybe I'll just sit here and watch it slide more.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: Maybe. Anyways, where did I leave off here?
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Now?
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: I was totally distrussed.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: I just left her kid with her sister.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Oh right, So yeah, she left her her son Jesus
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: with her sister and she moved back to New York.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: So her son is in the Dominican Republic when she
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: goes back to the United States. So now in the
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: big city, she worked various jobs in factories as a cleaner,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: and even officially became a US citizen in the year
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: two thousand and four. Throughout this time, she maintained close
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: contact with her son, even ensuring to visit him several
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: times on a yearly basis. Awesome, so she's consistently going back,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: she's sending money. You know she's going to see him.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: She's still a part of his life. It's not like
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: she's like, see you later. It's more of a I'm
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: doing this for you, for the family, for better life
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: sort of situation, and she'll take advantage when she can
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: to ensure that she's still there now. Even though this
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: was all going on, she was living the life she
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: wanted to in New York City. Jocelyn's depression would follow her,
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: and in two thousand and eight, a close friend of
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: hers ended his life by suicide on the balcony of
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: her child home back in the Dominican Republic.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: Oh boy, it hit her hard, yeah.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: And it plunged her into another deep depression. She moved
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: back to her home and became overly protective of her
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: son at this time and did everything she could to
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: ensure she'd or that he didn't the house except only
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: for school. Yoslyn continued to hear these voices too, and
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: they were consistently telling her to stay indoors as a
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: condition worsened. Worsened, her sister took over caring for their son,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: and Yocelyn once again returned to New York. Okay, yeah,
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: so it's a bit of back and forth, trying to
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: figure figure things out for her. Now, eventually, Yocelin would
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: meet the Krim family, which is where this case truly begins.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: Kevin Krim was a former athlete and Harvard graduate and
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: Marina Krim, a University of Southern California graduate and entrepreneur. Now,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: they first cross paths at a restaurant in Venice Beach,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: which is like picture perfect for like a romantic relationship
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: if you're thinking like a Hollywood story, right, yeah, like
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: we have a Harvard graduate and an entrepreneur meeting in
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: Venice Beach.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like hand me the romance novel, now right.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: They did get married in two thousand and three, and
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: they would have a daughter named Lucia, and in two
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: thousand and six they had their second child, they named
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: NeSSI in so sorry, they had their daughter in two
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: thousand and six. Lucy out in two thousand and six
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: and NeSSI in two thousand and nine. Okay, so three
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: years apart for those two.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: Both both girls. Sorry ah, yes, okay, yeah.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Now, the family moved to New York in twenty ten
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: for Kevin's job as a CNBC Digital media executive. Together,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: the family moved to a picturesque neighborhood in Manhattan, just
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: a block away from Central Park. This area is quite
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: upscale and known for its very expensive apartments, like extremely
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: expensive apartments, and Kevin had a very demanding job, so
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: living here in this area it required him to frequently travel,
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: which left Marina to be one of to be the one,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: you know, at home really taking care of their kids. Now,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Lucia and Nessie were solo with mom. But that wasn't
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: just to say that, you know, Marina was a stay
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: at home mom. She also taught art classes part time
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: and had a blog for their family where she could
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: actually document and write about their adventures together. And that
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: blog was called Life with the Little crim Kids.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Oh that's super cute.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: It is. So she put a lot of effort into this,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: really documenting things, and I think it's something for like,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: of course blogs are for other people to read, but
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: I also think it's.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: Kind of like it was an outlet for her.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: It was, and it's something that you can look back
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: on as your kids are growing up. It's like it's
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: almost like a family album or a journal or something
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: like that, you know, So it props to her for
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: doing that. Now, their life was going good, and they
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: were very busy too, but they both worked and they
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: had that family life. And now they were expecting a
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: third kid. Oh ding dang, so things were getting even
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: busier from them. It was in twenty ten when Marina,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: while pregnant, met with a woman named Celia had a
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: dance studio, and that dance studio is when she was
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: dropping off one of her children. Now, Celia, who worked
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: as a nanny for another family, saw Marina and noticed
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: that she was juggling to kids while expecting a third
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: and she looked very tired and honestly a little bit overwhelmed.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: So she approached her and struck up a conversation about childcare.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: They talked for a while and Celia recommended her sister, Jocelin. Now.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: She said that if you're thinking about hiring someone for
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: a nanny position, she would be a great fit. Marina
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: was delighted and they asked, you know, Celia to send
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: over Yocelin's resume. So later the Crims received an email
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: with the resume and a reference later that week. Now,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: the reference was from a family who Yocelyn had previously
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: worked with, and it painted her as an experienced and
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: reliable nanny. However, the problem here was the reference was fake.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: It wasn't written by a family who she had worked
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: for in the past. In fact, Joscelyn had never even
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: worked as a nanny before. The reference was written by
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Jocelyn's niece who didn't even have any kids. Oh boy,
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: so she's kind of like fake in the resume sort
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: of thing.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's uh scary. It definitely is also kind
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: of easy to do. Really.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So Kevin and Marina decided to interview Yoscelyn after
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: reading through her resume and reference. She sounded great and
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: the interview went well. Despite her lack of experience, they
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: were unaware that she, you know, didn't work in childcare.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: She was able to get through the interview, you know,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: tell them the right things or what she would do.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: By all accounts, it seemed like she knew what she
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: was doing. Yoscelyn impressed them, which led them to hire
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: her as a part time nanny for the family. Now,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: her duties primarily involved picking up and dropping off the
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: children from various places like school or other activities. She
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: worked twenty five hours a week for eighteen dollars an hour,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: which was paid in cash. Which meant, you know, definitely
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: evading that tax right, which is very helpful.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: Makes it seem like a bit more.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And for reference, the minimum wage at the time
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: in New York was seven dollars and twenty five cents,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: so she was making pretty discent money.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well over.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yostly was and excited and expressed a lot
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: of gratitude for the job and even in the ways
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: that the crims had treated her. So the crims were
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: happy she was doing a good job, and she was
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: happy because you know, she was like they almost began
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: to treat her as if she was a part of
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: the family too, which I think can happen lots of
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: times with nanny positions.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so they often, you know, they gave her gifts
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: with like nice gifts too, like an Ann Taylor jacket
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: for example, And they even paid for plane tickets for
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: her to go back to the Dominican Republic to visit
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: her family and her son.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, oh that warms my heart. That's awesome.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: So soon Marina gave birth to the third child, who
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: was a little boy they named Leo. He was a
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: happy little boy who was enjoying life and seemed to
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: grow up so fast in front of their eyes. And
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: even as he grew up, there were some notes about
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: him like even having like pine comb collections and stuff
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: as like a toddler, like little things like that. Right,
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: And so in February of twenty twelve, the Krim family
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: decided that instead of paying for y'all sin to visit
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: her family, you know, another one of her trips over
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: to the Dominican, they would instead travel along with her
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: to go meet her family and covered all the expenses.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, okay, So.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: They're like, you know what, you're not going alone. We're
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: gonna go with you. It'll be a nice, you know,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: opportunity for us to get to know you, get to
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: know your family, our kids meet your son. You know.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: It's a major bonding experience.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So together, they all seem so happy, and they
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: meshed really well. The Crim children were particularly fond of
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: yocelin Leo even reportedly sometimes had trouble sleeping without her beside.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: Him, oh my goodness.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: And Lucia often drew pictures of her, you know, like
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: being part of the family. It was a cohesive and
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: I mean they're not blood family, but they were family.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like it doesn't have to be blood
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: to be family. There's chosen family and stuff sometimes is
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: a bigger deal right now.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: The Austlin's family even jokingly remarked that she had four children,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: not just one, because of the deep bond with you know,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: the Krim kids. Yoscelin's son Hazeus, would at times visit
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: New York as well as he was getting a little
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: bit older, and the Crims treated him just as well
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: as they would Yostlin. They gifted him an iPad and
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: later paid him to do some dog sitting while they
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: were away, and allowed him to stay at their home
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: and you know, sleep in the beds in their house.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Kevin talked to Hazeus and encouraged him about his future
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: and even in sports. Hazeus appreciated Kevin, even quoting him
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: later on to say, quote, he was a very busy man,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: but he made time to talk to me and I
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: valued that.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: Oh man, Okay, this is just like this is so nice.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: It is. It's very heartwarming, this whole situation.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Now, there was a bit of a life shift for Yoscelin, though.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: In April of twenty twelve, she had a bit of
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: a falling out with her sister which led her to
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: be on her own and she was looking for an
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: apartment by herself. Now, she was thrilled to be moving
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: out of the place that she had lived in for
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: nearly thirty years at this point, and she found an
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: apartment in the Bronx. So thirty years she's been, like,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: you know, staying in the same apartment with her sister
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: in New York. So she's been here for a while.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: And by June of that same year, her son even
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: moved from the Dominican to join her mother in her
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: new place as well, sorry, join.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: His mother his mother. Yeah wow.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Joscelyn felt confident she was able to provide a comfortable
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: living space for him and even planned for him to
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: complete high school in the US. Unfortunately, though, the public
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: school system required him to repeat the eleventh grade, which
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: was a serious unfortunate setback for the young man, and
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Joscelyn decided to make the tough choice to enroll him
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: in private school instead so he wouldn't have to complete
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: the eleventh grade again and just go on for his
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: final year. And this cost was a total of seven
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: five hundred dollars.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Oh wow. That's quite a bit, hey.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So for the first time in her life, Joscelyn
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: had a sole responsibility for Jesus, and it started off
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: with a bang signing up for this private school. And
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: it didn't take long for her new life to change
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: her financial situation, as it quickly became very strained between rent,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: living expenses, supporting herself, her seventeen year old son, the
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: debt of paying off the private school m she began
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: to struggle quite a bit, and eventually she made the
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: difficult decision to give up her apartment and move back
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: in with her sister. So she lost that independence right now.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Though I'm not exactly certain who was living in the
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: apartment now, there were a total of five individuals living
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: in this three bedroom space. The apartment was described as
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: overcrowded in a stressful environment, and Yaucelyn was upset about
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: losing that independence. I think it was a real big
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: knock to, you know, her pride. She was going to
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: provide for her son first opportunity and she couldn't do it.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense, that's yeah, Like that would be
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: hard for anyone to kind of swallow, right.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Definitely tough call. So she decided she would ask Marina
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: if she can get a bit of a raise, and
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: it was agreed that they couldn't actually provide a raise specifically,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: but they could pay her for more hours. So they
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: gave her an additional one hundred dollars for five extra
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: hours each week. And if you're doing like Monday to Friday,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: that's only like one extra hour a day, right. So
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: Jocelyn accepted this offer and took it more or sorry,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: took on the more work whenever possible, babysitting and doing
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: whatever the family needed, and even doing some side hustle
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: stuff with selling jewelry and makeup and you know, cooking
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: meals for events or whatever it was. Yocelin was overwhelmed,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: though she wasn't working a whole lot for the Krim
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: family with the twenty five hours plus now the extra
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: five hours, which is thirty hours a week, right, but
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: with her side hustles and everything, she was often working
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: over twelve hours a day and expressing how tired she
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: was whenever neighbors even saw her passing in the hallway. Yeah,
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: Marina was aware she was struggling financially and would recommend
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Yocelin to friends or family or anyone that she knew
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: in need of a babysitter. However, this only frustrated Yoscelin,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: who felt the extra duties cut in her time with
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: Hayesus and left her feeling like she was losing control
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: of her life and ultimately resenting Marina for this.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: Really, yes, why she was trying to help though.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, but she didn't need more work. She needed more money.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, so she's almost like, you need to give
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: me a raise, not give me more work. Huh, because
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: more work means more time away from my son. Yeah,
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: and yeah, so it was like there was this bit
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: of resentment for that. Oh no, yeah, but we'll touch
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: on it a little bit later on again. So still,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Yocelin maintained a professional demeanor at work, even though she
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: was starting to kind of like get that little bit
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: of like gruffness towards Marina. So she confided her frustrations
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: only in those who were close to her. Now, to them,
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Jocelyn seemed to be slowly unraveling mentally. She was losing weight,
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: looked gaunt or frail, and was frequently extremely tired. And
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: even at points they would see, you're quite tearful. Now,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know if that's like just watery eyes or
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: she's actually we crying physically, but regardless, I think it's
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: the same outcome. Her once happy attitude seemed to change
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: as well. She stopped greeting people enthusiastically with a smile,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: stopped listening to the music that she always listened to
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: on a daily basis, and began experiencing insomnia. The vibrant
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: person she once knew once was just seemed to be gone.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: In her small, cramp bedroom in the apartment with total
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: of five people, Joscelyn described seeing once again shadowy figures
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: moving around at night, whispering threats, telling her things, saying
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: that they're going to harm her. It seemed, after all
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: these years, she was still unable to shake that horrible evil.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: When she wasn't working, she spent most of her free
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: time in that room. Her sister said she could often
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: hear her in that room praying, and Yoscelyn kept her
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: mental health struggles hidden from the Krim family and continued
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: to perform her duties as best as she could. Over
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: Labor Day weekend in twenty twelve, Yoscelyn was offered some
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: extra work by a friend of Marina. After working one day,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Joscelin said she can no longer do the job. Instead,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: a friend of hers would be taking over instead. Marina
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: felt betrayed. She gave Yostlin a very good recommendation to
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: the friend. She felt she put her own name on
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: the line for Joscelin, and she felt that she was
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: let down. The next day, Marina confronted Yocelin during a
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: school drop off with the kids, reportedly telling her quote,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: I don't want to see your face right now. Oh wow,
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: so there's some tension building up.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no kidding, Now there are some.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Other people around, you know, like there's other parents or
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: kids or nanny's or whoever. Yeah, And Yostin kind of
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: felt publicly humiliated from this, and she sat down on
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: a bench park and just asking herself and just saying,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: what did I do wrong? I did everything for her?
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: How can she ignore me? After everything? Even washing her
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: underwear for two years? So she felt betrayed too.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Wow, I mean, yeah, this is actually a bit surprising
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: because it seemed like they had bill their relationship pretty
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: strongly for these things to be happening, right, But they're
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: not really talking them through. I guess either.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: No, definitely not. But yeah, each one is building up
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: a little bit more resentment for the other, and with
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: each situation that occurs, it's probably just growing with them, right,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: They're harboring more and more and they're not figuring it
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: out or solving it. Now, Yostlin's work performance began to
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: seriously decline, perhaps not only by her mental health, but
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: also with the sort of situation and tension that's beginning
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: to grow between her and Marina. But now she was
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: approached once again by Marina and warned that they might
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: have to let her go to find someone else if
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: things didn't improve with her performance. By this point, Yocelyn's
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: mental health was taking a serious dive. Her family members
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: recounted several disturbing incidents with her. In one, while visiting
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: a friend, she appeared too faint, losing consciousness while her
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: eyes remained why open, Oh boy. Another time, she collapsed
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: like almost as if her knees just like gave out
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: underneath her, again with her eyes still wide open. Her
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: sister once found her in the early mornings at about
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: like four am, banging her head against the wall and
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: pulling against her hair, crying, wishing, praying, yeah, not good.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Joscelyn finally made the decision though, to seek out some
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: mental health help, and she made an appointment with a
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: psychologist in October twenty second of that year. Now, during
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: the forty five minute session, she didn't mention any hallucinations
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: or psychosis, nothing about voices, nothing about shadow figures, but
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: instead focused on the high stress levels, the anxiety about
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: her work, her relationship with her son, and her sense
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: of failing to provide for him. A psychologist noted these things,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: but never anything about displaying signs of hallucinations, psychotic episodes,
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: anything in that regard. So on October twenty fourth, more
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: stress will be piled on Jocelyn. Mareena expressed some more
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: concerns over for her not engaging enough with the children,
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: which I mean explains if someone's going through depression and
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: stuff that sounds about right, and also for giving them
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: junk food when she explicitly told him told her not
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: to give them this food, right m h. It seemed
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: this would be the breaking point for Yoscelin in this
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: encounter with Marina. That night, Jocelyn took a lot of
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: pain meds for a headache that she was suffering. Headaches
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: that she'd been suffering for for a long time. She
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: spoke with her sister and told her to take good
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: care of her son and told her to raise him
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: well and expressed her love for what she had for Hazeus.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: The following morning, on October twenty fifth, Joscelyn texted Hayesus
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: to confirm that he'd gotten on the bus for school
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: just like any other day, and he did. And before
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: leaving for the Krim House, Jocelyn hung up a purse
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: on her sister's bedroom door. Now inside that purse there
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: was family heirlooms. Photos of her deceased late mother, her
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: mother's passport, social Security card, a chain that belonged to
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: her mother, a broken ring and earring, Jesus's baby teeth,
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: a picture of him as a baby, as well as
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: childhood photos of her sister, her family. It was all
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: of Joscelyn's prized possessions put inside of this purse.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Oh boy, my chest is feeling real tight right now.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: It probably should.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: Oh shit.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Joscelyn also visited a neighbor and left an envelope addressed
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: to her sister. The envelope contained her debit card, driver's license,
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: to insurance cards, passport, social Security card, blood donor card,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: bank papers, and one hundred dollars in cash, not that
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: the neighbor knew that, right, It was a rest to
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: her sister, so it'd be open later. But Jocelyn was
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: apparently kind of like, like, I don't understand this statement,
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: gnashing her teeth. I think, like kind of.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Like grinding her teeth.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: Or maybe like yeah, like I don't know, like gaping
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: her mouth a little bit and just doing some weird
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: stuff with her mouth. Anyways, her eyes were darting around,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: she was pacing back and forth and just acting really
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: weird during this visit, and Jocelyn from there would take
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: the train to the Krim family home. When she got
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: got there, Marine explained the afternoon plans y Austin was
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: to take two year old Leo and pick up six
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: year old Lucia from school and then escort Lucia to
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: her ballet class and return home with Leo for his nap. Meanwhile,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Marina planned to take three year old NeSSI to her
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: swim class and then pick up Lucia from ballet at
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: five and then head home.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: Gosh, that's so much ay, Like, well, I mean it is,
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: but it's once you have like two adults taking care
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: of this and a routine and stuff. Yeah, but I'm
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: just like, oly shit.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: So Yocelin takes Leo, picks up Lucia and then takes
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: her to ballet and then takes Leo home. That's all.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: It's four steps okay, okay, yeah, and.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: Then Maria was taking NeSSI to swim class, picking up
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Lucia from ballet, and then home three steps.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Okay, there you go, look at you.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: Here, I'm just like, holy shit, what am I supposed
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: to do?
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: Drop off, pick up home? That's it? So Yaucelin followed
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: the plan picking up Lucia from school, but instead of
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: heading to ballet class, she took the children to Central
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Park for ice cream. Marina left the house at four
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: pm with NeSSI. After the swim class, Marina and NeSSI
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: went to the ballet studio to pick up Lucia Yeah,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: only to discover she never arrived.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: Oo no, no, no.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: Marina became anxious and worried right away because Yoscelin had
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: always been dependable.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: Marina texts y Austlin asking where where she was, where
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: the kids were, but there was no response. She even
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: texts again in Spanish quote where are you? But still nothing.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: She was getting really worried, so Marina rushed home with
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: NeSSI and upon arriving to your partment, calling out for
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: her a children, she saw Leo's stroller and Lucia's dance bag,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: but heard nothing coming from inside the home. It was silent.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: Marina went back down to the dorman who was tending,
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: you know, the apartment building at the front entrance, letting
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: people in and out, you know, ensuring everything's all good.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: And the dorman said that Joscelyn and the kids had
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: returned earlier and should be in the apartment. So Marina
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: immediately went back up to the apartment and began searching,
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: and it didn't take long before she made a brutal discovery.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: In her own words, Marina said this quote, it was
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: like a horror movie. I walked down the hall and
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: saw the light under the door. It was so quiet,
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: too quiet. I opened the door and saw Lulu. I
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: knew she was dead. She was lying in the bathtub
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: with her eyes open. Leo was next to her, and
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: they had blood on them. Then I saw Joscelin covered
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: in blood with her eyes wide open. All I remember
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: is saying I hate you. I screamed a scream I
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: didn't know was inside of me. I thought, I'll never
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: talk to them again. They're gone. I just saw my
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: kids dead.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: Holely.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Upon seeing Marina, Yoscelin stabbed herself in the throat to
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: end her own life.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: Okay, what so she wasn't actually dead, Jocelin? No, but
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: then she who killed she? Then she killed herself?
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, once Marina came in, Oh no, Lynn put a
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: knife into her throat.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: Holy shit.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: Marina grabbed NeSSI and immediately fled, collapsing in the hallway
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: of the apartment complex while screaming. A neighbor described hearing
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: a blood curdling scream and finding her hunched over NeSSI
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: going back and forth between calming NeSSI down and trying
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: to calm herself down. Realizing of what the fuck just happened.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: The dorman called nine one one, and the building superintendent,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: Michael Minniha rushed to the apartment. He found Joscelyn staring
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: into a bathroom mirror, blood pouring from her throat as
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: she stared deep into her own eyes. He could see
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: the children's bodies and blood everywhere. Michael left the apartment
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: and barricaded the door shut until police made their way
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: and arrived, both so no one would see the absolute
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: horrors behind it and to ensure Yoslin didn't escape. The
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: first responding officer found Michael holding the door shut, describing
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: him as pale and sweating and saying, quote, whatever is
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: behind that door is pure evil.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, this is just like making me feel ill.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: This is unreal.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a fucking ride, I can tell you that
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: much right now.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Holy shit.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: The officers entered securing the apartment room by room, They
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: found Joscelyn now laying on the floor, barely conscious, with
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: a bloody knife beside her. One officer removed the children
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: from the bathtub where they were laying, fearing they might
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: actually slip from his hands due to the sheer amount
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: of blood.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: Wow okay.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: Reportedly, the officers were even worried that the children's heads
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: may become fully decapitated and fall off due to the
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: intense gravity of the stab wounds. They sustained.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, because okay, Well that answers the question. I was like, well,
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: are we certain that they're dead? But okay, yeah, yeah
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: we are.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: Though the efforts to resuscitate them both did occur, they
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: were pronounced dead. Marina was taken to the hospital with
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: NeSSI she had to be sedated due to the shock
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: of what just occurred in what she saw, dang. Both
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: children had multiple stab wounds and slash wounds. Leo had
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: five wounds and a slit throat, while Lucia had over
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: thirty injuries, indicating a very violent struggle. The medical examiner
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: confirmed they both died of blood loss, which means they
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: were conscious of what happened.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, she was the oldest one, right, I believe
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: so yes, yeah, oh my gosh, ben okay.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: Kevin was returning home from a flight from being away
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: at work and was at the JFK airport and he
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: was escorted by NYPD officers and was informed of what happened.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: Yoslin was also taken to the hospital as she clung
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: to life and underwent surgery for her injuries. She survived.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: Once she regained consciousness. After surgery, Yoscelin was able to
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: communicate for the first time since she attacked. She was
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: able to say she was unable to speak, but was
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: given an alphabet board to communicate. She spelled out a
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: message quote, I had to do everything and take care
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: of the kids. I worked as a babysitter only, and
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: she wanted me to do everything. She wanted five hours
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: of cleaning every week. My schedule every day is different, boss,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: Marina every day has a different schedule for me.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: Holy shit. So here she's conscious and like that's her
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: fucking message. She just killed two kids.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: She didn't make any mention of voices, didn't make any
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: mention of shadow people or demons. She only mentioned the
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: resentment for Marina. Not concerned for the children, not what
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: just happened, just the resentment for Marina.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: I'm like shook right now. This is like so shocking,
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: so unexpected, so fucked up.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: Now, you know why. I was like, oh, yeah, I'll
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: probably do this case soon. And I was like I'm
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: doing this case real soon.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: Wow, Okay. I was just like, Wow, this family's so
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: dope and now and now it's just completely destroyed. Yeah.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: Yostlin was charged with two counts of first degree murder,
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: and a month after her arrest, her defense team entered
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: a plea of not guilty by reason of mental defect
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: or disease. So they're saying, yeah, she's right. Many evaluations
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: both from the defending and prosecuting side, would occur in
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: order to investigate this claim, and throughout these evaluations for
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: years after, Joscelyn blamed Marina for what happened to her
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: children and for many of the personal problems she encountered
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: as well. Now, the prosecution argued that Yocelyn did not
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: have a mental defect or disease. Instead, she harbored intense
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: hatred for Marina, believing that she resented her employer's expectations.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: They stated that she was upset Marina suggests that she
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: worked extra hours instead of increasing her pay without any
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: added responsibilities. Basically, you made me work for money instead
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: of just giving me more money as a raise.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: I don't. That's not how the world works.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: So here, no, I mean we all want to fucking raise.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, who the hell doesn't want to raise?
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: And usually if we get a raise, you're getting like, hey,
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: here's twenty five cents extra.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: If that's it's like ten cents or some shit, right,
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: like gosh, So she.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: Held feelings of They also claim she held feelings of
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: inadequacy about providing for her son as well, and that
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: she became increasingly jealous of Marina's ability to provide for
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: her children and a life that she could not provide
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: for her own Sonjeseus, Which that one makes a lot
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: of sense to me, a lot.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it ain't right.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: That's no, it's not. But if you take that and
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: also couple it with the idea of she's like, well,
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: give me a raise, she's looking at this really well
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: off family with these really happy kids who spend time
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: with their kids, who are doing everything. She's like, you
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: can afford it. Yeah, And so she's like, I hate
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: that you can provide and you're not providing for me,
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: so I can provide. I think that's a very big
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: piece to this puzzle. Yocelyn fixated on the idea that
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: the extra work was causing her son to suffer, which
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: fueled her rage and hatred the prosecution. Sorry this whole
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: prosecution also culminated into the moment when she attacked and
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: Yolson waited for Marina to discover the gruesome scene in
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: the bathroom, only attempting to take her own life after
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: witnessing Marina's anguish herself ensuring that she got gratification for
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: the gruesome actions that she just did. So that's what
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: they're saying, is like you you were waiting, you knew you.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because that's like, that's just fucked up to
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: want to see the pain I know, of seeing her
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: two kids dead.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: Which it makes sense. She she held resentment for Marina,
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: she didn't hold resentment against the kids. She took it
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: out on the kids, and she wanted to see her reaction.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: She wanted that gratification of seeing Marina suffer.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: Well, that is just like the ultimate of suffering. Though,
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: like I and I thought that she had like a
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: love for the kids, you know, so it's so bizarre
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: that she could physically do that.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: I know them, I know in court, the defense team
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: would bring up the idea of the voices and the demons. Now,
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: this is where I need to make a very big clarification.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: Up until now, there was never any mention of these things.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: No one knew of them, not doctors, not the Krim family.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: Only in court when defending her apparent mental state or
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: disease or whatever you want to call it. Did these
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: demons and voices ever get brought up. There's no history
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: of it.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: In fact, I even mentioned her seeking psychiatric help at
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: one point.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: But yeh, she never stayed in, never.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: Stated huh, these claims she was suffering from this for years,
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: there's no proof of it. There's nothing of it. She
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: did have some family members saying, yeah, yeah, you know,
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: this is the case that totally happened, but there's not
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: like sure, why didn't you guys say anything until now,
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: Like even when this occurred, nothing of it was brought up.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: Only in court when this is like the defense has
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: it been brought up?
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which doesn't look good at all.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now they also claim that she was suffering from this,
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: of course for years, but she also had no memory
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: of the tack because she believed she was possessed by
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: a devil during it. Now the prosecution struck back and asked, well,
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: she has no memory of it, then, why was her
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: first thoughts upon waking up to explain her actions? Explain
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: why she was angry at Marina instead of inquiring and
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: asking about the children, or ask what happened? Or ask
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: why did she here? Yeah? Oh okay, Yeah, So they're like,
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: she was very conscious and very aware what she was doing.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and she was hopeful that she was also going
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: to be taking her own life, I suppose.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, pivotal moment in this case came during the
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: trial when the court played a recording of an interview
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: between Jocelyn and the States expert psychologists. So, when they'd
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: made this claim initially, I said, for some years, there
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: was psychologists on both sides, you know, interviewing and analyzing
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: and all this sort of stuff with her. So despite
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: her defense team claiming that, you know, she had these
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: symptoms and all this sort of stuff, this recording of
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: the state's evaluation went as such, So the evaluator said, quote,
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: any recollection of hearing voices or voice telling you to
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: kill the children? Joslyn said no. She was asked, ever,
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: she replied no, I love the children very much a lot.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: She was asked, So, you never received any instruction or
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: voices that today's the day to kill the children? She
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: replied no. She was asked, you never saw a devil?
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: She replied no. She was asked, had a visual image
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: of the devil? She replied no. Did you experience seeing
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: men in black appearing? No, She herself denied the very
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: existence of these hallucinations, these demons. Yeah, in her own words,
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: when she first woke up, she explained exactly why she
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: did this. Yeah, In this interview, she's debunking the very
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: defense that they are coming up with in court that
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: never happened.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, so that's just confusing to me. Why is
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: she lying about that?
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: Like, I don't think she's lying about it. I think
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: her defense team is lying about.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: Well, but so, did she actually ever hear voices and stuff?
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: No, yes, she was going through depression. Yes, she had
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: some very serious mental health issues. But she never heard voices.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: She even said that gave this little interview. So you
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: never received any instruction or voices that today's a day
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: to kill the children. Any recollection of hearing voices or
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: voices telling you to kill the children?
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: No?
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: And no.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: Okay, so she still may have heard voices, but just
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: not in you know, to do this to the children.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: Potentially, I guess, as far as I'm aware in my research,
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: there's no proof that you ever heard any voices.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: Hmmm. Shit.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: The jury Sorry. The trial would last a total of
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: six weeks, but eventually the jury found Joscelyn guilty of
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: one count of first degree murder and another of second
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: degree murder, sentencing her to life in prison without the
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: possibility of parole.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I would say so.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that is the story of the Krim family murders.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: That is just who Yeah, that's It's like, I'm I
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: actually almost feel like I'm a bit in shock here.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: I didn't well rightfully, So, I mean, I know this
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: is a true grim podcast, but it's just like, wow,
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: I don't yeah, wow, I mean, how else do you
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: even describe that. I'm shocked that she actually killed two
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: of the kids, I know, these two innocent little kids.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: Clearly she was suffering from from mental health issues, like
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: I'm not doubting that one ounce, but she was not
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: suffering from psychosis. That is clear. She was clearly fit
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: enough to found fit enough to stand trial, yeah, one
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: hundred percent. So whatever she was experiencing, she went from
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: being a member of the family family even still saying
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: in her own freaking words, I loved the children very
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: much a lot. Yeah, she went from that to cutting
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: their throats and waiting to see their mother's expression on
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: her face.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: Oh man, man, yeah, yeah, that this just makes me
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: feel ill. And you know, because mental health or not,
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: like it doesn't it just it's not an excuse for
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: these kind of.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: As though it's not. It may lend some understanding and
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: where someone's headspace is or what they're going through. But
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: it's not an excuse. It's never an excuse. You you
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: hurt someone, you hurt them.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't like, I'm sorry, I'm just like
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: flabbergasted a little bit.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're taken a back.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: I feel so sorry for that family. And you know,
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: now that their family have three, I can imagine the
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: ship that they have to get get through and over
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: and well, I mean they're never gonna get over it.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: But you know what I mean, I.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: Can't imagine they're probably ever going to hire a nanny again.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm, yep. I think you're probably very much so right.
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, they're one kid too, Like the amount that
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: they're going forward like protecting this kid right like, her
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: life is going to drastically change too, because the parents,
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: unrightfully show were just like terrified of probably anything and
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: everything happening to her.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah him, it was Leo Leo.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: I thought Leo died or was it?
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: Oh no, that's right, that's right, Okay, right, Sorry, my apologies. Yeah, yeah,
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: so yeah, that was a heavy case. Thanks Darcy for
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: putting you onto that one. That was something.
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've never heard of that one. Wow.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: I've been trying to find some different types of cases recently,
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: and it's I've come to this realization that the amount
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: of times children are victimized in true crime is exponentially
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: far too great. Like they don't get me wrong, like
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: one is too many. But it seems like when I
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: come across a case, I'm like, oh, this sounds interesting.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: The children are the victims, and it's a consistent the
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: children are the victims, and it's beginning to absolutely fucking
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: terrify me.
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, gosh, like they they can't really protect
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: themselves much, right, yeah, so, and they're so innocent and
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: they have no idea the bad stuff that can.
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: Happen, and then the truth is in humanity.
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: So it's like almost easier for these people to to
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: do the stuff I guess to.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: Them, right yeah, well, I mean that's exactly what happened here.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: Joscelyn didn't attack Marina. She attacked the kids to get
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: to Marina.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that's fucked.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: That is It's like that is like evil.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so evil.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: Well that's what that.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: That's the one dude said, you know, as he was
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: blocking the door. Michael, I believe it was as he
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: was holding that door waiting for police to arrive, he said,
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: whatever is behind that door is pure evil. Yeah, and
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: he's one hundred percent right.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: Whether whether there really was these fucking shadow people or
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: demons or whatever whispering in her ears, whether it was
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: those things that were pure evil or it's Joscelyn herself,
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: I don't care whatever it yeah, pure fucking evil.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: So that's the story of the Krim Family murders. Hopefully
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: you guys are still listening and you got through.
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: That all right, Well, yeah, and we can only hope
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: that the Krim family is doing okay. Some some like
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I want to say peace, but like
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: even like a sliver of it, you know, for like
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: some of the remaining life.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so well, thank you for being here, Thank you
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: for listening. Of course we have all those thingy is
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: in the description of the podcast links to other stuff Patreon,
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: for example, if you want to give us a review.
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: We really appreciate that we are an indie podcast, produced researched.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: All of it is just us. There's no one else
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: on our team, no one else over seeing anything.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: It's just us that makes it seem so sad and scary.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: Well, and I'm just saying like we're not some like
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: part of big corporation.
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: I know what. I'm just like Wheels all alone.
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: We don't have managers nothing, you know, it's just us.
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: So yeah, so yeah, we appreciate all the support you
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: can give us, give us reviews, whatever, even if you're
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: just listening. We appreciate the shit out of that. Trust
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: me on that.
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: So sure do.
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: Thanks for being here. And Nicole's got the next episode?
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: Are you gonna get the hint or just that's it?
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: We're doing it next soon.
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, I guess I can. It's like a huge
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: it's a Canadian story.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: Okay, I know what it is, but yeah.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: It's a it's happened in Nova Scotia in twenty twenty.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: And it uh, don't give much away, I know.
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: I'm like, and yeah, it's it's it's maddening. It's like
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: so maddening. I'm I mean, I was going to give
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: out more, but then you just baus and me, So
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: that's all you get. I mean, if you know the
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: case that's gonna you're going to know which money?
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I know what you were going to say,
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: and if you said that, I think it was going
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: to give it all away. So that's why I kind
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: of like.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely worth a listen, like it, Yeah, it
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: needs it's a story that needs to be told, as
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: many of these do.
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: I agree, and as you put it in very good words,
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: it's it's a maddening case.
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so uh until Friday, because every Friday now we upload.
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: Until Friday, we will we'll talk to you, will see
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: you or hear you, or you'll hear us. We'll be
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: there Friday and until
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: Then, stay wicked.