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John Clem: The 12-year Old Civil War Hero · Ridiculous History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you as always for
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: tuning in. Hi. I'm Ben, my baby's my name is Nolan,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: and we are joined as always in spirit with our
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: super producer Casey Pegram. Today we'd like you to give
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: it up for our guest super producer, are returning guest
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: super producer j J. Pauseway, Hey, pauseway for the Causeway
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: there we go. Uh no, no, you and I are.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: You and I are going to be on the road
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: a lot as we go towards this lovely Halloween season.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: I am super pumped. This is my most favorite time
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: of the year. Uh you know in theory, the leaves
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: are falling, they're cool, strange winds blowing. It's very Ray Bradberry,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: something wicked. This way comes esque, except now it's ninety
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: degrees outside. Yeah, it's weird, right, Like, I feel like
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: we're in permost summer. Do you think it's gonna be
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: like there's gonna be just rotting jack O lanterns out
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: in the streets, just like crushed from the heat. Is
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: this the New Normals? It might be the New Normal Band,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: which is about as scary as it gets, and it
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: makes me identify strongly with all of our Australian listeners
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: out there. Have you know what what temperature is it
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: usually around the holidays for you in Australia? Is it hot?
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Is it unseasonably so? Like one time I was in
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Florida during the Christmas season or the you know, Hanneka
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: holiday season, and I just couldn't get into it. Man,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: it was just too hot. I I need some I
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: need some chill here. Anyway, despite the fact that the
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: temperature doesn't agree with us or hasn't gotten the memo yet,
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: we are full on in the fall and I am
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: gonna embrace it. I'm gonna chase it. And I think
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: I might have a weird idea for a costume. What
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: do you think about a drummer boy? Yeah, would you
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: have like like the full on the whole nine, like
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: with the with the shoulder straps and the your rudiments,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: practice your rudiments, rudiments, I remember rudiments. I would also
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: do some paradidals, paradis and rudiments. Yeah. So we're asking
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: this question for a reason because today's story takes us
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: to the Civil War, takes us to the adventures of
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: someone known as the drummer Boy of Chickamauga. His name
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: is John Klem and he was a twelve year old
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: who became a Civil War hero. There's a lot to
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: unpack in that sentence, right, that's right, Ben. He fought
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: with a twenty second Michigan regiment. Horseshoe ridge. That's hard
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: to say, horseshoe horseshoe. That's really tough. I don't know
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: why I'm having a hard time with that word, but
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna getrough it. I'm gonna say it
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: many more times in this episode. Um. But he had nothing,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: um to arm himself but his drum. It's very important
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: and a basically the equivalent of what you'd consider a
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: sawed off shotgun today, which is pretty baller if you
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: ask me, Yes, saw down must get so sacrificed some
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: accuracy there close combat, though, right, one would imagine. So
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: this was a very, very bloody war, as we've pointed
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: out previously. I'm always startled that we still call it
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: the Civil War. It's not him things civil about it.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Let's look at where Clem comes from. So he was
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: born in Ohio in August thirteen, eighteen fifty one. His
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: parents named him John Joseph Clem, which is a cool name,
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: and they originally named him John Joseph Clem with a K,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: but he changed it so his last name was spelled
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Clem with a C. He thought this sounded a little
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: more American. And nowadays everyone's change and sees twok's you know,
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: up is down, Like everything's all mixed up, dogs and
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: cats sleeping together Pandemonium Industry sponkors. I had a friend
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: growing up whose name was Clem, and it wasn't short
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: for anything. It doesn't sound like a name that would
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: be short for something like Clement Clemson or Clementine. Just
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Clem or Clem Jeman, like Clem Jiman. No, it's true
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: um so he uh would later Actually, he who's obviously
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: a huge fan of changing things about his name, because
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: he would later add Lincoln Um to replace his Christian
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: given middle name. And they were vegetable farmers. That was
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: their stock in trade, and John was the guy that
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: would kind of be their door to door salesman, going
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: from home to home in the little burg where he
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: grew up, selling fresh produce. Yeah, and his younger siblings
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: would tag along with him. Unfortunately, their mother, Magdalene, was
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: hit by a train in eighteen sixty one and passed away.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: John's father remarried. There's a guy named Roman Clem, and
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: you know this wasn't some horrible fairy tale with an
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: evil stepmother. She was fine with the kids. But John
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: soon struck out to make his own way at a
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: very young age. His childhood is essentially at this point
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: just a montage of him attempting to join the army.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: He wanted to be in military service ever since the
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Confederate rebels fired on Fort Sumter, which officially started the
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: Civil War here in the US. He approached the third
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Ohio Regiment of Volunteers when they were passing through Newark,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: and he asked the commanding officer to take him on.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: He said, look, just let me be your drummer boy.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: And according to Clem in uh from Nursery to Battlefield
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: when he wrote himself, he when he asked the commanding
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: officer to take him on, he said, he looked me over,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: laughed and said he wasn't enlisting infants. A pretty definitive pass, right,
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: That's a pretty hard pass on the kid. But Clem
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: did not give up, and he actually uh, he'd been
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: thinking about this for a minute because he had asked
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: this of his father, Roman Um As as mentioned in
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: that very same letter that you were talking about. Ben.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: He says, father, I'd like Matty Well to be a
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: drummer boy. Can I go to the Union Army? What nonsense?
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: Boy replied father, you are not yet and y'alls old. Yeah,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: And I love that little drummer boy. American drummer boy
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: has like a British schoolboy accent, but of course he does.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: I love that people are still saying touch. This is
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: back when Tutt was in play, is still in play
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: thanks to you. Ben. I don't know, man, I feel
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: like sometimes our friend groups. You know, I told you
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: I got banned from using it with one friend who
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: does that. Whooo bands you from using a very close
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: friends who are doing their best, doing God's work. Well,
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna start referring to you as a king Tutt
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: oh boy. So this is funny. I like this scene
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: you set here, Noel, because it's a dead her time
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: conversation right, as recalled by John's sister Elizabeth. His dad
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: shuts him down when he's like you know, why can't
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  Speaker 1: I go to the union, Nami? And I love that voice.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: By the way, Papa, Papa, I still have he mus
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: want to be a drummer boy. And so they finished
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: eating and John says, I'm going to go out for
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: a swim, and what he means by that is I'm
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: going to run away from home. That's great, that's like,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: that's like the dad thearettes. It's the drummer boy version
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: of going for smokes. And this wasn't uncommon. You know.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: We we read a lot about the horrors of child
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: soldiers in the modern day, but we have to remember
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: this occurred in earlier eras as well, and the Civil
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  Speaker 1: War was no different. It was not uncommon for kids
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  Speaker 1: as young as fourteen to go and actually fight as soldiers.
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  Speaker 1: And uh some sometimes it would be a family affair,
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  Speaker 1: like a father grandfather would come with one of their
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: younger children and the army would accept both of them.
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  Speaker 1: Child soldier is sort of like a tale as old
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: as time, right, I mean, that's something that we've seen
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  Speaker 1: in sort of warlord type countries like in Africa, for example,
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  Speaker 1: in more recent times, right exactly, and in previous empires,
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  Speaker 1: we've also seen child soldiers. So in his in that
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: essay we mentioned earlier, from nursery to battlefield, Clym says
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  Speaker 1: he took a train to Cincinnati and that's where he
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  Speaker 1: approached the Michigan Regiment, the twenty swon, and they rejected
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  Speaker 1: him at first as well, but he just didn't give up.
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  Speaker 1: He just kept following them around and they said, you're
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: not part of our crew, and he just kept walking
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  Speaker 1: in their wake. Eventually they let him be their drummer boy,
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  Speaker 1: but they couldn't legally put him on the payroll because
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  Speaker 1: he was too young. Presumably, when he's tagging along pulling
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: at their coat, is he also beating his little drum? Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I guess he brought a drum with him. But it's
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: it's shady, it's really sketchy. Because the adults decided that
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: they would they since they couldn't legally pay a child soldier,
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  Speaker 1: they decided that they would just dig into their pockets
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  Speaker 1: and give them thirteen dollars a month out of their
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: own cash a month. You say, do we even have
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: any frame of reference to inflation calculators. Yeah, it's more
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  Speaker 1: than thirteen dollars. Now that's fair. Still pretty much a pittance,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: a sub pittance. He's not Yeah, he's not getting rich
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: off this, but yeah, they they gave him his own
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  Speaker 1: soldiers uniform and they had to, you know, cut it
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  Speaker 1: down from a man's size uniform too, because there, you know,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: they didn't make they didn't didn't make child sized uniforms.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: That'd be weird, that would be a very strange thing.
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  Speaker 1: So they did it at least this once. And uh,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: it's strange because John Clem became a private on May one,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: eighteen sixty three. He was eleven years old. How much
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: responsibility did you have when you were eleven? You have
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: to answer it. I don't wonder to feel put on
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: spot or you either j J or are you listening?
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: But I'm thinking like I was trash when I was eleven.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: I was in boy Scouts. I guess that's a what's
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: what's a responsibility? Though? You know it's a responsibility to
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: your pack, to your pack master? Is that what they
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: call it? Pack leader? Den leader? Den mother? Well? Sure, yeah,
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: and maybe I'm maybe I'm being unfair to myself, but
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: I just may call it a different time I could
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: I could have dealt with boy Scouts, But I don't
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  Speaker 1: know how I would have dealt with being a soldier
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: at the age of eleven. You know, well, you would
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: have been more prepared than some with the skills that
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: you learned from boy scouts. I'm gonna say you would
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: have been able to navigate the woods and a panch
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: who needs a knot? Yeah, I got you. You would
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: have at least been able to tie a knot in
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: order to mount your tiny drum on your slight frame
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: and follow around the soldiers. I would have been annoyed,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: wouldn't you. There's guys following you around beating a drama
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: like kid dispense with the drumming. I have to say,
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: I guess it's for morale and it's for people to
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: have a sense of rhythm when they're marching. But I
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: never I never got the the drummer boy thing and
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: just didn't get it. But we know that he didn't
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: stay a drummer boy, right. He became he becomes a private,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: not a pirate, and then later he becomes a legend.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: Is that true? It absolutely is true. So yeah, after
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: the big the big boy Battle Gettysburg, that's the one
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: people remember. Um hey, chickamauguas up there too. Because it's
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: it's fun to say. People likely remember it for that
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: reason alone. But it was also a huge battle. It
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: was the second highest body count of any battle in
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: the Civil War. But Gettysburg is just so iconic. I
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: think it's easy for number two to fall by the wayside.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Any Civil War buffs out there are going to hand
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  Speaker 1: me my hat and then tell me that I'm absolutely
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: full full of it. But you know, not being a
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: Civil War buff um, I was not as aware of
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: the events of Chickamaugua. Um. So here's the thing. On
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: September eighteenth, in eighteen sixty three, the Union and Confederate
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: forces absolutely shredded each other. Uh. And this was surrounding
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: the Chickamaugua Creek right here in Georgia. That's true North Georgia. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: The Confederate forces were there to stop the Union from
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: marching southward, and they succeeded, but at grizzly and profound costs.
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  Speaker 1: At the end of the battle, thirty four thousand people
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: were dead. Thirty four thousand soldiers right and John Klem
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: and his pals in the twenty two Michigan were part
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: of the group that beat back the Union advance, and
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: he says, from his essay where a lot of our
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: information is coming from. He says, at Chickamaugua, I carried
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: a musket, the barrel of which had been sawed off
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: to a length suitable to my side. That makes sense. Yeah,
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: he wasn't like terminator style, single handedly blasted fools. He
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: probably still had to hold it too handed, and it
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: was probably a bit of a sight to behold with,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: like his sort of weird baggy, oversized trimmed down uniform
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: and his little drum and his little tiny musket situation.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, this kid had some stones my friends. Yeah,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: And there's a weird human moment here in the middle
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: of this bloody battle. There's a Confederate colonel and he
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: sees this tiny boy in his Union uniform with his rifle,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: and the colonel apparently runs up to the boy and says, surrender,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: you damned a little yankee. And then he says, I
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: think the best thing it might have, a chap like
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: you can do is drop that gun. And so what
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: does clim do. He shoots the colonel and then he
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: runs away and he becomes a legend. Yeah, shooting the colonel.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: That should also be a euphemism for something. I don't
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: know what, right, right, you really shot the colonel on
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: that one. But that's a good one. So he gets
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: promoted and now he's a sergeant. He's twelve years old,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: old sergeant. This is bonkers, oh the way he describes it.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: Another one of his essays, Um, he says that this
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: gentleman wrote up and and told him to he says, surrender, you,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: damn little yankee. He's like, no, one calls me a
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: damn little yankee, and then he blasts him. He didn't.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: He didn't. He didn't drop his gun and give up
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: and be taken. He actually shot this guy right up
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: his horse. And words spread about this pint size uh
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: new officer, um, and he kind of became almost like
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: a symbol. Yeah. Yeah. They started calling him the drummer
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: boy of Chickamaugua. Yeah. And this was great pr for
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: the Union forces, which were relatively demoralized regarding the news
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: of the Georgian Front. And he was a celebrity. He
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: was their version of a wartime celebrity. Some people in
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: Chicago got the kids measurements from his pals. In the
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: twenty two Michigan infantry, and they gave him a new
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: handmade uniform. I guess they just wanted to help out
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: the effort. However, all was not Rosie headlines and Union
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: praise for clim He soon fell into the very dark,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: dangerous side of the Civil War. He was already inundated
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: in this violence, in this chaos. But in October of
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: eighteen sixty three, he was actually captured by Confederate forces.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: It's true, it's true, Ben, But thankfully, Um, we don't
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: know too much about what happened. Well, maybe we do,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: is it? Is it? In his essays He probably wrote
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: an essay about it. He seemed like a pretty pretty
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: mouthy little kid. Um. I mean, I mean he wrote
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: the essay later exactly Um. But he was eventually released
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: as as part of a prisoner exchange, like an exchange
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: of hostages basically um. And then he went on to
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: continue under General George H. Thomas's Army of the Cumberland,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: and he himself sustained injuries several times during battle Um,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: during the Battle of Kinna Saw and Murfreesboro. I love
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: murfrees Borrow. You want to say Murphy's Borrow, but it's
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: murfrees borrow. That's how they get you Tennessee, Perryville, and Atlanta,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: right here in good old Atlanta, Georgia. UM. And then
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: he got out in eighteen sixty four, and he was
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: a teenager. Oh, we should say he didn't languish away
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: in the Confederate prison. He was only there for two
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: months and it was mainly used as propaganda. But you're
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: right now, when he gets out, he's a teenager. He
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: goes back to high school, he graduates in eighteen seventy,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: and he probably has You know that thousand leagues stare
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: so common to a lot of people who have been
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: through traumatic events, one would imagine, one would imagine, Man,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: it's true, like you said, he went back to high school,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: he graduated, but he had a taste, he had the
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: taste of the soldier's life at this point, Like he wasn't.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. I don't think you can
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: go through something like that in such during such formative
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: years and not it's actually I let me rephrase that.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: I would think you would never want to do it ever, ever,
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: ever again. But he obviously was suited for this life,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: and he decided to make it a life's goal for him,
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: or at least the next step in his in his
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: life to enter the U. S Military Academy. Yeah, he
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: achieved the rank of commander captain of the Washington Rifles
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy one, but you know, he he thought
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: that he would be able to enter the US Military
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Academy as kind of a formality. However, there were there
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: were some complications. His experience in a way worked against
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: him because entry to places like West Point is based
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: on academic achievement rather than combat experience, which is crazy.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Well it's not, I don't know, crazy, He's not the
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: right word. But it's like, if anyone should have been
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: admitted to a military academy, it was this kid, right,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, he had actual real world experience that you
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: can't buy. You know, you can definitely run drills and
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: you know, march in the yard and everything, but this
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: kid had actually seen it and tasted it like the
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: actual hell that is war. And he had been in
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: the field of battle since he was a child, right,
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: as you said, it was a formative period. He left
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: school before he was ten years old. He failed the
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: entrance exam to West Point because of course he did,
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: because he hadn't been to school years. Instead, he fought
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: for his country. You know, I mean, come on, give
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: the kid a give the kid a hall pass on
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: this one, right And uh, Fortunately he still had his fame,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: so it looked like his career might be over. He
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: might be a civil war, he wrote, retiring at the
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: ripe old age of twenty. But because he was such
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: a prominent figure during wartime, he was able to secure
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: an audience with Ulysses S. Grant, who was then president,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: and Clim was well known at the time, so Grant
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: was definitely aware of who he was. And Clem makes
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: some claims in his essays and in some of his
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: speeches regarding his interaction with Grant. Uh. He says, when
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: President Grant learned that he failed the entrance exam, Grant said,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: you know, hero for ump if we can do better
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: than that, And he appointed Clem second lieutenant in the
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: twenty four U. S. Infantry in December of eighteen seventy one.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: So he said, they basically said, look, forget the schoolwork
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: and the bureaucracy. Let's just get you back where you belong.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: And this was the beginning of a very long career
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: in the military, a very long official career. That's right.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: He started off as a first lieutenant, and then he
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: graduated from a different military school and artillery school at
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Fort Monroe, and then he married Anita Rosetta French. By
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: the way, that's all from a fantastic article in History
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: collection dot com called the Incredible Story of a twelve
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: year old Civil War Hero. Um. He went on to
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: continue getting promotions, and he eventually became a captain in
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: two and then he became a quartermaster, which is a
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: position that I wasn't super familiar with, but I believe
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: it has to do with maintaining like stocks of artillery.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Isn't that right? You have all the stuff? Yeah, Quartermasters
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: like a real, real powerful position. This is the person
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: in arg of quarters where you sleep, rations, the things
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: we eat, clothing, other supplies including I would imagine at
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: this time armament. He did actually eventually attain the rank
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: of major. She's a big deal. In eighteen nine five
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: he received many commendations, serving with distinction in the American
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Indian Wars against the Native Americans. He got a medal
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: called the Indian Campaign Medal. Um. He was also injured
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: in that conflict. In eighteen ninety nine, yes, and his
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: career continued. Eighteen ninety nine, his first wife dies. He
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: eventually remarries daughter of a Confederate veteran, oddly enough, Bessie's Sullivan,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: in nineteen oh three. He is active during this time
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: in the Spanish American War eight. He is promoted to
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: lieutenant colonel in nineteen oh one. Two and a half
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: years later he's a colonel, and then he becomes the
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: chief quartermaster at Fort sam Houston from nineteen oh six
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: to nineteen eleven. He's retired in nineteen fifteen, but even
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: after he's retired, he's given the rank of brigadier general.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: Apparently this sounds weird to us today, right, But apparently
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: during this time it was customary to promote Civil War
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: veterans this way. Once they reached the rink of colonel,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: they retired, they get promoted to brigadier general. He was
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: the last American Civil War veterans still serving in the U. S.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Army when he retired, which makes sense because he started
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: when he was like ten. It absolutely makes sense. And
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: what's crazy to me is he didn't pass away until
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: May of nineteen thirty seven, which is actually the year
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: my father was born. Which is just for perspective here, right,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: it's his reasons and my father was a little on
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: the older side, but still crazy to think that their
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: paths somehow crossed historically speaking, you know, in terms of
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: occupying the same time base. Yeah, if only for a moment.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: And today you can visit the memorial or the grave
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: of John clym Over in Arlington National Cemetery. There's a
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: six ft bronze statue of him standing close to the
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: Buckingham Meeting House in his hometown of Newark as well,
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: if you happen to pass through there. And we've talked
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: a lot about John's adventures, right, his close calls with danger,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: his triumphs and his trials, but we haven't really looked
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: into his own perspective. And while he was glad to
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: serve his country and certainly considered himself a patriot, we
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: also know that he understood the insidious, evil nature of war.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: We have a line about it that he wrote himself
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: where he says war is bald naked savagery as compared
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: with the adult man. The boy is near to the savage.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: But he had some views on child soldiers that might
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: surprise you a little bit problematic today. Yeah. Um. In
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: that History Collection dot Com article, they cite a perspective
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: of Clems that, yeah, as you say, Ben was was
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: problematic at best. Um. He believe that boys in fact
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: made the best soldiers because they're so eager to please terrible. Yeah,
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: and and referred to this notion that they hadn't yet
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: developed what he called the spirit of caution that adults,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: you know, self preservation. I'm sure he had things to
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: say about how they can fit in small spaces too. Yeah,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: that's that's weird, though. I guess I can see where
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: he's coming from with it, because he's probably like, well,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: I'm a child soldier and I turned out great. No,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: you're not a child soldier anymore. I'm you're an old man.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: You're happy to survive exactly. So it's strange because it
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: gives us a look in a into a terrible, uh
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: terrible aspect of that war, and as we said, a
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: terrible aspect of many wars. The Civil War was called
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: the boy's War because of all the children that were
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: enlisted in the armed forces. But you know, as we said,
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: it wasn't new, and some people in the country were
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: torn about it. President Lincoln was not a fan of
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: child soldiers, but he had a weird way of phrasing it.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: He wrote to the Secretary of the Navy at the time,
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Gideon Wells, and he said, the United States don't need
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: the service of boys who disobey their parents. His main
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: thing was, if your parents tell you not to run away,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: you should listen to your folks. Also, notice this is
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: an interesting small thing. He used don't instead of doesn't.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Like today, we refer to the United States as a
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: singular entity, but back then people referred to it just
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: as a group of states. So instead of the United
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: States doesn't need this, it's the United States don't. So
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: that really fascinated you. I know you're a big fan
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: of grammar history. It's weird. It's a weird one, Yeah,
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: for sure. I like referring to them as these United States. Yeah,
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: it just sounds it just sounds nice. It's a nice
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: fan of white feel to the United States. Yeah, I know,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: it's very true. Um, And I always typically wear a
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: very slim, sparkly dress when I do something. You know,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: HR might get onto me for this, but I think
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: it looks great on you. Fetching. You know, I would
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: you cut a good figure with thanks. You know, I
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: appreciate it. So I've been doing a lot of pilates.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: So this this is our This is where the tale
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: of John Clem Civil War, he wrote, draws to a close.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: Little drummer boy uh sawed off, shotgun, baggy uniform wearing
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: child soldier, badass, slightly problematic, old man, old Johnny Shiloh
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: as he was also called, Is that right? Yeah, Yeah,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: that's a good one. There was a Disney film that
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: used Johnny Shilo as the title is about him, and
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: there's this rumor that he was in the Battle of
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Shiloh and had a close call and trapnel went through
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: his drum. Anyway, long story short, that's probably that's not true.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: It's not even probably not true. It's he wasn't there, Okay,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: but don't let that ruin a good name. Johnny Shilo.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: Johnny Shilo is pretty solid. It sounds like when Johnny
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Shilo comes to town. It sounds like he walks into
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: a restaurant and like the music stops and someone turns around.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Everyone turns around. Yeah, so what drops a glass and
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: someone else is like, you got a lot of nerve
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: show in your face. Around here, Johnny Shallow, Johnny Shadow.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: That's pretty good. It also makes me think of someone
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: that would be like in a mob crew or something
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: like oh yeah, yeah, yeah, no doubt about it. He's
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: like the one guy who's not Italian exactly, yeah, exactly. Um,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: he's the bagman. He's the bagman. You love and I
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: love a good Civil war story. And that's it for
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: this one. But as you would say, not it for
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: our show? Yes, hopefully not as a whole. As a whole,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: it's it for this this edition of our show, unless
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: we get replaced by like hardcore nine to ten year
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: old podcasters who are also drummer boys. Wow, that's a
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: pretty good idea. Actually, I mean it's you know, as
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: far as ways to go, it's not that bad. But
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: the conversation continues. We want to hear from you. What
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: are some other little known stories of child soldiers. This
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: one is interesting in that the nation as a whole
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: sort of got behind it and again supported this idea.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: It's also interesting because it has a more or less
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: happy ending. Right. Typically, stories of child soldiers involved like
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: indoctrinating you know, kids who have nowhere else to go
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: and forcing them to support a cause that is questionable
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: and not in their best interest a lot of the time.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: And then they you know, they there cannon fodder right
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: and there, or they're inducted into this army by having
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: their family killed, you know what I mean, and they're
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: giving the choice to fight or to die. It's it's
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: a terrible, terrible thing, and it is uh, it is
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: somewhat unique that this has a happy ending. We want
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: to hear from you. You can find us on Facebook,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: you can find us on Twitter, you can find us
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: on Instagram. Our favorite part of the show, or our
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: favorite part of the Facebook's at least, is our community page,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians. Yeah, admittedly we're a little bit biased, but
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: it's a fun group, right and maybe it's ad come
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: hang out. We hang out there. It's true. I mean,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: we're not just saying that. Like, we definitely float around.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: We absolutely read every post, and we occasionally get in
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: there and engage. So if you want to do that
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: going over to Facebook and search for Ridiculous Historians, and
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: I think you just have to say me or Ben's
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: name and walk around in a counterclockwise circles. So what
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: it is, Yes, it's true. Witter sians. I never get
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: to use that word. It's walking counterclockwise. Uh, it's a
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: way of walking. It's a really specific way of walking.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Isn't the weird witterer ships, It's very weird. You can
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: also find us on our personal instagrams if you want
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: to see our various, uh different adventures. As we said,
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: we are both going to be traveling a lot, separately
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: and together in the coming days. Uh So I am
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: at Ben Bolan and I am at how now Noel
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: Brown big thanks to our super guest producer j J.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: Pause for the cause, pause way, cause for the pause,
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: cause for the pause, cause for pause. He really he's
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: the cause. He's the reason that he stopped dead in
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: your tracks that you pause for the cause, pause for
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: the cause, and and and remark upon his greatness. Um,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: thanks to super buster Casey Pegram here in spirit. He's
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: here in the building, but he had something that pulled
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: him away. Yeah. He just keeps sending as these weird
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: snorky messages yet with some very problematic gifts. Yeah, alright,
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: le Bush. Thanks to Alex Williams who composed our track.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: Thanks to our brain trust, I think we can start
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: calling them that. Christopher hascotis Eves jeff Coat, who recently
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: appeared on that fantastic Uncle Tom's Cabin episode. Thanks of
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: course to Gabe Louisier and uh, thanks to you know.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: I'm glad that we did not grow up during the
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: Civil War joke. Man, it's a hard knock life. We'll
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: see you next time, folks. For more podcasts for my
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.