Latest / Authentic Living / Resolving Conflict as a Leader with Christi Scarrow

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Resolving Conflict as a Leader with Christi Scarrow · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
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  things that really matter in our lives.
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  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:36
  This was such a great interview that we decided to turn it into a 2 part series.
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  Be sure to tune in next week for part 2, so you don't miss out on the amazing content.
• 0:47
  Everyone, it's, Roxanne Derhodge of authentic living with and today, I have a I would say a
• 0:51
  friend now because we spent almost a year together, in a writing group, and then her name
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  Christy Scarrow.
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  So, Christy, thanks for coming on.
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  I know Christy and I have not met in person yet.
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  I'm gonna assume probably what time we will.
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  But we joined a writing group in, when COVID started.
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  And, of course, both of us, my book is still in the edit stage, but hers has been published and
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  put out to the world.
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  So an amazing accomplishment.
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  So, Christy, thanks for coming on.
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  Christy is a specialist on conflict.
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  And, her her book is called Truth Warriors, and we're gonna talk a little bit about conflict.
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  Something that I think most of us kinda are familiar with.
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  I would say some of us do it, okay sometimes.
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  And we're but we're always needing to to learn the skills necessary, to kind of mitigate the
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  outcomes of when conflict goes back.
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  Oh, thanks for coming on.
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  So how have you been?
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  Good.
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  Thanks, Rosa.
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  It's so good to see you again.
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  As you said, it was so nice.
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  Yeah.
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  I saw you almost every day.
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  For for 3 months straight and, it was amazing group of people, obviously, an opportunity to
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  bring our books to life together and support one another.
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  So, yeah, I know.
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  So excited to be chatting with you about them.
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  It's definitely something I'm passionate about conflict and supporting people through it.
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  And And as you said, and I and I don't think of conflict as a negative thing like some people
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  do.
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  But I see it as kind of a spectrum.
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  So there's there's challenges where we have conflict and there's definitely strategies to
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  get through it.
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  There's other times I think we actually need a little bit more conflict so excited to chat
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  with you about it today.
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  So let's talk about, I was looking up just to kinda to kinda get a bit of a benchmark and the
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  numbers are a staggering, like in the US, status $359,000,000,000 yearly, that they're
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  lost.
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  And in Canada, they figure it's about 2,000,000,000.
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  Does that, does that make sense when you kind of with kind of the companies, or, or that some
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  of the, numbers that you've heard kind of being this a specialist in the field.
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  Yeah.
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  Well, I mean, you're right.
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  We we see conflict showing up in so many different ways.
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  And, obviously, what with what's happening with the pandemic and mental health issues really
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  coming to the to the forefront rightfully.
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  So just given the extreme stress we're all under in this in this new world.
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  It's not surprising that conflict much more easily arises.
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  So the fact that conflict is is coming up in the workplace, the the fact that we're trying
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  to find strategies to address it, the fact that, you know, HR professionals and leaders
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  are trying to find ways.
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  In fact, I think there's, in some ways, even more of a resistance to avoid difficult
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  conversations.
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  Which I believe is actually an escalation to conflict.
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  So one of my favorite books, one of the inspirations for my book was Leanne Davies who
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  wrote the good fight and it's all about this idea of conflict debt and that when you don't
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  address conflict, it actually causes, you know, greater frustrations, escalates it.
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  People cause resentment.
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  There ends up being side conversations.
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  So it's not surprising to me that we're seeing such staggering numbers in in, issues being as
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  a result of conflict.
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  So how did how did you get into this kind of work?
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  Did you decide, like, as a little girl, I wanna work with people to work with conflict?
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  How did you what was your path to kind of come, becoming an expert
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  in.
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  Yeah.
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  I don't think it was that direct.
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  I think it's interesting.
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  I I've always been very passionate about I think I'm a natural problem solver and I think
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  as a result of that moving into that sort of leads me towards conflict situations because a
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  lot of times the problems result from, you know, misaligned expectations or And so and I
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  also love the idea of psychology.
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  I modern in psychology in school, and and frankly, probably wish I had majored in
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  compared to business, I loved it so much more.
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  And so the behavior of of individuals was fascinating to me.
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  And why do we why does conflict exist?
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  And then I really sort of dug in, in a in in learning more even about biases and how and
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  belief And I think it really came to a front reason I wanted to write on it and speak on it
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  was, you you know, even a few years ago, just really came to to this idea of we're so we're
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  dividing more and more and more.
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  Right?
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  It just feels like that division gets keep getting worse, whether it's in our our politics
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  or through the racial tensions.
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  And of course, as you know, we were both writing our books during, COVID and during a
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  lot of the racial tensions that were happening all of that, and that allowed me to sort of
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  pour into it even more.
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  But I think this idea of, like, why are we so divided?
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  And how do why do people holds so tightly to their beliefs.
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  And I think it's still on that.
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  I haven't totally cracked that I don't think anyone's fully done there, but I'm very
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  passionate about sort of peeling that.
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  I'm in a bit why is it that when we believe so strong, I mean, we're seeing it right now with
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  the vaccination and anti vaxxer pushback.
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  Right?
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  Why do people believe so strongly that they're completely unable to consider other
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  perspectives, and that is such a source of conflict.
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  So I think that's something I've always been passionate about, and I think it's just so many
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  things have happened lately to kinda keep pushing against Like, why, you know, how how do
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  we how do we solve this?
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  How do we come together more as a community as a which is independent of our belief.
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  Can we not suspend our beliefs or allow different beliefs and and move closer together
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  and a better understanding of those different beliefs?
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  So That's what I think I've always been passionate about, and I think just lately, I've
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  been trying to really, zone in on how to help other move through that?
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  So let's talk about that because, I mean, I've I did, certificate in mediation when, you know,
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  I was working in corporate, and I've done a fair amount of conflict resolution in my
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  different roles.
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  So what are some of the core things that's keeps someone stuck from getting the
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  perspective of another versus kind of being in the middle.
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  Like what what are some of the core things that you find are some of the differences.
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  Well, and it comes back to that idea of of bias, which we all have.
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  Course, you can't you can't stop these natural human biases of of we we form immediate
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  opinions of people, you know, our beliefs become part of our identity as opposed to an
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  actual perspective.
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  And so I think it needs to start with that recognition or that awareness that it's gonna
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  it's gonna be there, and it's okay that I have these biases.
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  It's but I have to recognize it in myself.
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  And I think what's made it even worse is this, you know, social media.
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  I don't know if you've seen the show, the social dilemma, but that was fascinating to me
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  because it's all about how social media, you know, it really takes what we believe and
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  continues to develop that.
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  So you know, it what what I type into Google, even in the first word, it fills in based on my
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  history.
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  And and all and social media actually, you know, feeds the confirmation bias that we all
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  have.
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  So we're already attuned to go out for look for information that validates our opinion.
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  But social media feeds it.
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  So if I follow one person or I'm looking at one newspaper, I'm gonna get same perspective, and
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  then it makes it really even harder for me to see an alternative perspective.
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  So so so I have to be very purposeful, but one recognizing that and even recognizing it to
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  myself because you can often feel this.
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  You know, when someone confronts you with a belief that you don't agree with, your body
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  actually physically reacts to that, and I think it's being attuned to those reactions.
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  If I wait a second, why am I getting irritated?
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  And this is the time if you're able to have the willpower to do so to go, let me just see if I
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  can understand how they got to that perspective.
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  You know, what makes them believe that.
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  And and simply the understanding of it oftentimes resolve some of the conflict.
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  It's about, like, I may not agree with that perspective, doesn't mean I disagree with who
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  you are.
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  And I think
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  that That's the that's the that's the rub, right, because That's what oftentimes people
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  get into.
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  It's like if I if I, like broccoli and you don't like broccoli, I feel like I need to,
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  like, change your mind about broccoli.
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  And if you don't see it my way, then I don't know if I like you.
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  Yeah.
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  Kind of where conflict gets to versus you know, okay.
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  Well, tell me more.
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  Right?
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  Like, to to really, I I call it creating a gap versus, oh, she's just like that.
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  So therefore, I push her away a bit more versus kind of opening up the space to ask a bit more
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  questions about why do
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  you like broccoli?
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  It'll be.
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  Yeah.
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  And then to build on that, Rosanna.
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  Yeah.
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  That's such an awesome analogy because to build on that, you're not liking broccoli.
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  Might associate maybe, well, what maybe you're one of those vegetarians that don't you don't
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  even like me to admit, and maybe you're one of those extremists that So we even infer, like,
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  values and other things with opinions, right, whereas you're like, oh, I just like rockets.
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  You know, And so I think that's the other thing is we make a lot of quick quick judgment and
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  assumptions and inferences about one thing you believe means that you believe this, this, and
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  this.
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  And that's where we need to stop the the the natural jump that our brains make to associate
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  certain things.
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  So you have this belief.
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  You must be this kind of person That's not the kind of person I am.
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  So your values are, like, you're not I don't like you and I disagree with you, and I need to
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  change it because what you believe is wrong.
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  Like, it goes that quickly in our brains, and it's it's it's natural, but it's it's, I think,
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  start starting to recognize that you you have to actually go ways I can I am reacting in this
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  way?
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  It starts with that self awareness and the personal responsibility that I have a role in
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  this.
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  Just be and because there's my belief may not be right either.
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  Right?
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  And I think that's the other thing is if we're and and even if my belief is right, maybe I
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  have an opportunity to share a perspective or learn something new here.
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  And sometimes I,
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  you know, I found that, you know, in my role, as a psychotherapist or or just in in
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  consulting, I would be like, woah, I don't see it like that at all.
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  And I'm thinking on my body language, it's probably showing it even though I'm going, oh,
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  okay.
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  Wow.
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  Or whatever.
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  So it's really also being aware.
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  Sometimes you're trying to kinda keep your cool as well.
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  And and your visceral, like you said, your visceral is kinda screaming at the other person
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  on the other end, and then you're wondering why are they responding like that?
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  Because sometimes what we don't say comes out equally as loud as what we do say, right, which
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  could lead into the other part.
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  Like you said, none of us like, you know, to get into having an altered or a different,
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  belief than somebody else, but, unfortunately, I mean, we all have them.
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  Regardless, of how homogeneous we are, there's always nuances of things.
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  You know, if we didn't, you know, I'm Trinidad Adient, so I grew up with different culture
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  until I was seventeen, then I moved here while I'm female.
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  Okay.
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  Well, you know, I've done this kind of jobs.
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  Like, we're writers.
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  We're speakers.
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  We're co So we have a lot of people that we can kind of pile up and put in our subset that you
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  get.
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  And then if somebody's kind of out of it, it's like, what do I you know, and I don't think
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  we're we think there were that judgy, but we truly are deep down inside to say, you know,
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  And I think that's the thing people will probably say.
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  I'm not I'm not judgmental, but we we all are.
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  And we can't we can't help it.
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  I mean, our brains are wired because you just can't process all that information.
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  We make snap judgments, and and we make snap assumptions, and then we build upon those
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  assumptions.
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  Right?
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  So, if if I believe, like, if I'm meeting up with you for lunch and you're late and I hate
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  people who are late and then you show up the one time, I might go, oh, doesn't doesn't care
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  about my time, and which is in reality, maybe there's a there's a very clear reason why you
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  don't care about my time.
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  But next hundred later, I'm like, see?
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  She did not care at all about me.
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  I'm not gonna wanna meet up with her again.
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  She, you know, as an income, thoughtful, thoughtless person, like, we go all that way
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  quickly on really quick things.
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  Of course, we don't do that for ourselves as easily as we can do it for others, but that's
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  the challenge is sort of breaking that moment of like, wait a second.
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  Why am I jumping to this?
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  And I I recently fell into a great way of, testing assumptions that actually resolve the
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  conflict or stop the conflict from happening in us in my work situation.
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  So our our business model is that we're all under light OS 9.
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  There's a number of consultants.
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  We all run our own.
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  Kind of client businesses as part of that.
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  And so we hire 1 another with different specialties, which works well as a business
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  model.
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  So I was frustrated because I wasn't, one of my partners didn't hire me for a particular area,
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  which I thought, hey, did did she even consider me?
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  And and less about the fact that she didn't hire me, but more, I wasn't sure why she had
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  chosen the person she had chosen.
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  And I started this dialogue in my head, like, that that other person didn't do any work and
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  is yet getting to do this project.
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  And, you know, I was like that the work shouldn't even be his because he's not even
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  anyway, I wanted a whole bunch of inner dialogue.
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  And I thought, you know, I'm just ending up resenting my partner as a with all these
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  assumptions in my head.
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  So I called her up and I said, listen, I don't want you to make any changes, but I have
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  assumptions going on.
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  And all I wanna do is validate with them.
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  So I self declared I think I'm making assumptions here.
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  And these are my assumptions.
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  And she said, yeah.
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  You're wrong.
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  She said, you know what?
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  He actually did this, this, and this to get this project.
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  He actually has this expertise that you weren't aware of.
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  And I was like, awesome.
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  Thank you so much.
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  I was so happy about that because in my head, I had all these things built up that made me
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  angry at her choice.
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  And in reality, they were the wrong assumptions.
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  And I think, you know, declaring an assumption I'm gonna say that's high level technical
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  because I would see that a lot of people aren't held back by by that vulnerability, which is
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  really you know, you're in a, like, a consultative situation.
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  This is a partner.
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  So, obviously, you have a certain working, capacity with each other.
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  And still, even in that, but for you to declare an assumption to say, I've got some of those.
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  Can we chat about them?
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  You know, I would say, when you're coaching someone, do you find many people have that
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  capacity or you're coaching them to get to that ability to be able to to to kind of hurlough
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  that assumptions or say it out loud.
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  Yeah.
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  I think that's how the challenge is well, one of the opportunities as coaches, right, is to
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  be able to draw out what people are actually assuming.
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  Those underlying ones and have them understand from themselves what might be the assumptions
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  driving that belief.
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  And so if if they're having a frustration or a conflict, getting them to kinda think about,
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  well, why do you think that is, or why do you believe that, or what starts to get them to
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  understand the the assumptions that might be there.
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  And then you can ask the question.
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  How can you test if that's true?
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  Mhmm.
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  How do you know if that's true?
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  And then they can think about ways and and to be honest, it was this I wasn't sure how to
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  have that conversation.
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  I said I kinda fell into this approach.
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  I'm like, I totally have to use this approach myself because I kinda wasn't sure how to
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  handle it.
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  I'm like, I don't want it to seem like I'm just complaining.
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  Because I don't actually I did had no expectation for her to change it, but yet I
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  knew that if I didn't address it, then the then the next time something happened in a similar
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  way, I would be like, see?
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  Like, she she's not making the right choices or whatever would go around in my head.
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  And I'm like, I wanna stop that now because I could be I really didn't think I was wrong, to
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  be totally honest, but I thought if I get it out, then at least so I I think the the more I
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  can encourage people to do that.
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  Again, I'm not saying I'm the best always the best at it myself.
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  I think we all have these assumptions, but I think it's pausing to go What if this is an
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  assumption?
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  What if this isn't actually true?
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  How did I actually get to this belief?
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  Like, why do I believe this person is x, y, and z?
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  And it's maybe because they did this, this, and this, and you can kind of go, well, is there
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  another reason they might have done that?
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  And so it really is challenging that inner dialogue.
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  And I think you're right.
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  As coaches, it it we can ask the questions probably better that you can even do it
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  yourself.
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  Yeah.
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  Well, give me 3 facts to support the that you know that this has happened, and people
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  go, what
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  do you mean?
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  Well, and they give me subjective, you know, reasoning.
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  Oh, no.
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  No.
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  No.
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  I say hard facts and they go, what?
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  Try that again.
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  And then they go, oh, okay.
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  No.
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  I think that he did this because no.
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  No.
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  No.
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  Give me a fact.
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  Yeah.
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  And then when people start to ready and all of us, right, you know, our worlds, we have that
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  subjective reality that it's based on so many things.
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  So how do you parse that out?
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  When you get into conflict is guess what?
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  At the end of the day, we're human beings.
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  Right?
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  We wanna protect and preserve, and what does the brain and the body do it never feels this.
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  Right?
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  Like, I mean, it's like, woah.
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  I identify that.
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  Everyone, I have to take the step.
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  And before you know it, you're kind of clamping down based on something that's been happened
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  before.
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  And Malcolm to Gradwell's, book, I've won, I'm not sure which we talked about the thin slicing
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  effect, right?
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  Snap decisions, you know, within I forget what it was said was 6 seconds or something, and it
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  shows you how quickly we can intuitively assume something And then it's, of course, when
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  you're, like, whether it's with your family or if you're working on teams and you're, like,
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  the cumulative effect.
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  And I wanna talk more about that.
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  Is like, I'm gonna leave that one.
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  And before I know, it's like a, it's like a, you know, a blazing fire because the little
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  things become cumulative and they can kind of gain momentum.
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  So let's talk a little bit about kind of whether it's at home or at work and let's say
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  there's something kinda that's made you upset or made you, you know, put you off.
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  What's the best way to consider approaching that?
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  Like, even if I may not say, well, I prefer to leave this one.
• 18:58
  How do I make the decision whether to say, okay, that one, I'm gonna just leave, but I
• 19:03
  can't do that all the time.
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  What's you know, how do I kind of decide what to go after and what to kind of make sure I
• 19:09
  follow through on?
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  Yeah.
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  Well, and and I mean, it's human beings.
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  We're kind of conflict diverse by nature, and that's okay because we wanna have harmonious
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  relationships.
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  And as you said, just some of you are making the choice to not declare something, to not say
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  something for the sake of that relationship.
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  And the reality is you're probably more likely to do that for somebody you trust.
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  You're like, well, that was an honest mistake.
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  They're a good person.
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  So I know they probably didn't, you know, weren't late on purpose.
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  Or someone you know less or or they've already broken trust from you, you're more likely to,
• 19:41
  to actually react on goal.
• 19:43
  I know they weren't very considerate so I think it's one, you know, it's recognizing the
• 19:48
  context of it.
• 19:49
  So if you're in that situation and as you're already alluded to, that emotional reaction is
• 19:54
  really important.
• 19:55
  If you're in a situation where you know that conversation is going to escalate because you
• 19:59
  yourself are still feeling anger or resentment, then it might be not the time to have the
• 20:03
  conversation.
• 20:04
  And and the question becomes, if if it's worth dealing with, it's probably more, is this a
• 20:10
  pattern?
• 20:10
  Do I feel it building is is it now every conversation I have with them feels I feel
• 20:16
  irritated.
• 20:16
  So, that idea that conflict that building up Right?
• 20:20
  Every time my interaction is now become more and more strained, and you're right.
• 20:25
  Ideally, you would have doubt someone that was a little fired, but we don't tend to.
• 20:28
  We we if it starts to start to creep up before a gift to that big bonfire, that's the time to
• 20:34
  go, wait a second, and every interaction feels frustrating with them.
• 20:38
  Or I've now decided that I've already put my judgment on this person.
• 20:41
  I've already said they're lazy.
• 20:43
  They don't care about me.
• 20:44
  Whatever it
• 20:44
  is, I've now gotten to the point where I've I've labeled them as always being, like, this.
• 20:49
  Yeah.
• 20:50
  You're you're always late or you're, you know, you're you're always missing deadlines or
• 20:55
  you're labeling them.
• 20:56
  And then if I label someone, There's no possibilities of giving that person any
• 21:01
  opportunity to have me experience them in a different way.
• 21:04
  So all those absolutes too become something that I think when people start to think it
• 21:09
  through, they realize we're not always a certain way.
• 21:12
  We can often be, but to be the person the opportunity to kind of have us experience that
• 21:18
  because if we're reacting to their behavior and we're just not giving them an out as well, that
• 21:24
  that that synergy could get developed as well.
• 21:27
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne.
• 21:31
  Cree the space for positive, healthy change.
• 21:34
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
• 21:40
  roxannederhaj.com/blueprint.
• 21:44
  We'll see you next time on authentic living with Roxanne.