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How to Write Many Genres Well with Ann Aguirre · WriterCon

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Believe in yourself. There may be people who tell you
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: that you have to have a platform already, or you
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: need to be rich, or you need to be well-connected,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: you need to know people in the industry. There are
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: always going to be people who don't want you to
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: succeed because they have given up on their own dreams.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: I cannot guarantee you that you will succeed if you
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: keep trying, but if you quit, if you give up
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: on yourself, I do guarantee that you will fail.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Welcome to WriterCon, a gathering place for writers to share
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: their knowledge about writing and the writing world. Do you
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: have a desire to write? Every successful writer started with
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: their first book. All it takes is determination and knowledge,
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: and WriterCon can provide that knowledge. Your hosts are number
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: one national bestselling writer William Bernhardt, author of more than
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: 60 books, including The Superman Wars, and Laura Bernhardt, award-winning
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: author of The Wantland Files series and Shadow of the Taj.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Jesse Ulrich. Hey there, writers.
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: Boy, this Bela Lugosi thing is not working at all,
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: but thanks for joining us today. This is our last
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: episode before Halloween, so I thought we should stir up
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: something spooky, kind of have a Halloween episode.
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: Jesse, I like the hat, by the way.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: People just listening to this on audio are missing out.
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: How do you and Spot celebrate Halloween?
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Oh, normally we either, we either like, we usually go
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: to a person's house of our collection of friends who
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: don't have kids and hand out candy at that particular
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: house and sort of moves around. It also depends on
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: whether it's in the middle of the week or near
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: a weekend, um, you know, so, uh, but normally the,
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: the handing out of candy and probably a, a watching
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: of a Halloween themed movie of sorts.
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: The handing of candy to adults who don't have children.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: No, two kids who come to the house or whatever
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: house we are at. So one year, uh, uh, uh,
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: our neighbors and I just sat in our front yard
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: and handed out candy.
• 2:18
  Speaker 5: Cause it was a nice night.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: And we were like, you know, And they have dogs,
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  Speaker 2: and so they didn't want the doorbell to be rung 18,000 times,
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: so we just sat out there.
• 2:26
  Speaker 5: That was fun.
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: People come, probably talk to you a little bit.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:30
  Speaker 6: It's nice and warm. Yeah.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: It is nice.
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: Do you have a favorite Halloween movie?
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Hmm.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: Favorite Halloween movie.
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: I have a soft spot for Theater of Blood, but,
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: you know, it's Vincent Price plus Shakespeare, so what's not
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  Speaker 4: to love?
• 2:47
  Speaker 6: I mean, the only.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: the only movie i can think of right now i
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: guess no hold on there's practical magic and then there's
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: the other one um uh with like bett midler and
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: whatnot hocus pocus hocus pocus yeah so i say hocus
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: pocus probably it's a good it's a classic.
• 3:05
  Speaker 6: Super fun and it has a cat in it.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: It does have a catnet perfect.
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: Yes i'm wearing a cat today of course you sure
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: are and we all have cats Laura, what have you
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: picked out? You usually costume for Halloween. What's it going
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: to be this year?
• 3:20
  Speaker 6: That's true. We did Morticia and Gomez Adams not too
• 3:25
  Speaker 6: long ago. I've done Harley Quinn. That was a good one.
• 3:32
  Speaker 6: I just had to try to costume for our karaoke song,
• 3:36
  Speaker 6: so I was searching for a Jasmine-esque blouse. What do
• 3:40
  Speaker 6: you think? What should I dress up as? I've done
• 3:42
  Speaker 6: Alice in Wonderland before. What should I do this year?
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: I mean, you should save Harley until my Batman.
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: Book is out, clearly.
• 3:50
  Speaker 6: Fair, yes. Okay, I'll withhold that.
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: Other than that, I don't know. Your Morticia was very good, though.
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: It was fun.
• 3:57
  Speaker 6: Maybe I'll revisit that.
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: You kind of embodied the part I felt.
• 4:01
  Speaker 6: I don't think anybody, I think I just scared the kids.
• 4:03
  Speaker 6: Maybe I should not try to do the character.
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: All right. Speaking of nothing, that's the worst segue ever.
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: But in the interview today, we're talking with Anne Aguirre,
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  Speaker 4: who is the New York Times and USA Today bestselling
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: author of many books, most recently the Hocus Pocus Handbook,
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: which is sort of a mystery comedy romance. We'll talk
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  Speaker 4: to her about her new offering and all her many
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: other books. But first, the news. News story number one,
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: agencies are resigning from the AALA as agents are changing
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: the ethics code. Now, those of you who listen to
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: the podcast regularly may already understand what we're talking about.
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: AALA is the American Literary Association of American Literary Agents. Remember,
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: all reputable organization, all reputable agents are going to be
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: members of. But as we covered earlier this year, they
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: are rewriting their ethics codes. And the one that's drawing
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: attention is the provision that allows, under some circumstances, for
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: literary agencies to take money from their clients. The problem
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: that's really bothering people, I think, is the idea of
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: agents being able to charge editing fees. Like you submit
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: your manuscript, they edit it, you pay them, and then
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: submit that revised manuscript to the agent who may or
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: may not be inclined to take it. They've already got
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: your money. Anyway, this doesn't sound right. And at least
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: one agency has resigned in protest, and I think many
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: others will in the future. This is a quote from
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: the press release they released, and I apologize if I'm
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: mispronouncing names. Quote, Distell, Gutterich, and Barrett has made the
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: difficult decision to resign from membership in the AALA. We
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: firmly believe that literary agents need to be held to
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  Speaker 4: high ethical standards in their dealings with authors. To us,
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  Speaker 4: that means there must be no conflict of interest in
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  Speaker 4: the services we provide to And now I'm going to
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: skip ahead where they say we cannot support these things, including, quote,
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  Speaker 4: the new canon allows agents who have separate editorial businesses
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  Speaker 4: to charge editorial fees with the potential. It may or
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: may not happen, but it could happen with the potential
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: to then sign those authors as clients and retain their fees.
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: That's what's really bothering them. Laura, you've worked as an
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: editor before. though I suspect you've never edited someone and
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: then offered to agent them or publish them.
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: What do you think about this?
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  Speaker 6: It feels a little wrong. It feels a little dubious
• 7:22
  Speaker 6: to me. I thought the idea was that if someone
• 7:25
  Speaker 6: believed in your project, they would take it on and
• 7:27
  Speaker 6: then work with you to the fruition of that book.
• 7:34
  Speaker 6: I'd say, yeah. Conflict of interest is what was running
• 7:38
  Speaker 6: through my head as well, which I heard you saying
• 7:42
  Speaker 6: in their press release too. It seems like, I mean,
• 7:45
  Speaker 6: if somebody wants to edit on the side, fine, that's great.
• 7:49
  Speaker 6: But it just doesn't seem right to say, why don't
• 7:52
  Speaker 6: you pay me to edit it? And then I'll think
• 7:55
  Speaker 6: about taking it to see if we can get it
• 7:57
  Speaker 6: picked up somewhere by a publisher.
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: That is what's bothering people for sure. um it seems
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  Speaker 4: like uh and i understand where this is coming from
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  Speaker 4: because a lot of literary agents are scrambling right now
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: right self-publishing has become so endemic that people no longer
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: need the gatekeeper to get published.
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: I mean you do if you want to be in
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  Speaker 3: the big.
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  Speaker 4: Five publishers but not for a smaller publisher not for
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: a self-publisher so they're looking for new revenue streams but
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: jesse is this kind of like uh you offering to
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: record somebody's audio book for a fee. And then if
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: it turns out well, you offer to publish it or.
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: Something like that. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: The part that's missing is if you're going to offer
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  Speaker 2: this to an author, you have to also, you also
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: have to be their agent. Like it has to be,
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  Speaker 2: I understand wanting to bring everything sort of in house,
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: which I feel like it kind of was already. Like
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: if you've got an agent and they decided to, represent you,
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  Speaker 2: they would help you find an editor who they probably
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: also either already knew or was.
• 9:00
  Speaker 5: In their agency.
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  Speaker 2: But this feels like bringing all the different parts of
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  Speaker 2: book publishing into agencies, which is not necessarily what they
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  Speaker 2: were originally designed to do.
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  Speaker 4: Well, the agency could accept the client first and then
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: edit their manuscript, but could they charge for it? Because
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: the agent's payment for whatever they do is supposed to
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: be the 10 to 20% that they're taking from you
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: once they've sold the book.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, that gets weird and awkward for sure.
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, complicated. News story number two. Amazon KDP, that's the
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  Speaker 4: agency through which self-publishers often self-publish their books to Amazon.
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  Speaker 4: KDP is now limiting authors to a mere two titles
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  Speaker 4: per week per format. Format meaning paperback, hardcover, e-book. You're
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: going to have two paperbacks a week, two new hardcovers
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  Speaker 4: a week, two new e-books.
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  Speaker 3: Only two.
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  Speaker 4: This probably relates to, you remember the story earlier this
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  Speaker 4: year where we found out that four million books were
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  Speaker 4: published at Amazon last year, and at least three million
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  Speaker 4: of them were AI written. And so now we're Amazon
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: is not striking a blow against AI. They're okay with
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: IA written books in the whole or part. Although if
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: you admit it, they will post that on your sales page.
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  Speaker 4: But now perhaps because there's just too many of them,
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  Speaker 4: they're limiting you to two titles a week to quote,
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: help maintain a positive publishing experience for authors, which I
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: guess means not making a so cluttered. Nobody can find anything.
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  Speaker 4: I mean, in 2025, they set the limit to only
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  Speaker 4: 10 titles per week, but apparently that wasn't enough to
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  Speaker 4: stop some people, so now it's two a week. I mean,
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  Speaker 4: the only way anybody could write two books a week
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  Speaker 4: is if they're churning out complete garbage that's unedited or
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: if they're using AI. And even if you're writing by AI, seriously,
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  Speaker 4: more than two a week? Jesse, has the time come
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  Speaker 4: when we need to distinguish established publishers from people who
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: are publishing themselves? One of the things I like about
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: the internet is that it's not snob publisher focused. Most
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: people don't even notice the publishing house. But maybe we
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  Speaker 4: need to. We're going to need some way to distinguish
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  Speaker 4: a real book from a book from somebody who's AI
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  Speaker 4: generating several things a week, don't we?
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  Speaker 5: Yes.
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  Speaker 2: Well, this is the problem where the only gatekeeper that
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  Speaker 2: now exists is the seller. And the seller doesn't really
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  Speaker 2: have a motivation to limit these things. And so it
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: has to be pressure by us, the customers, to tell
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: Amazon to stop it, right? And again, I would love
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: to hear Amazon's answer for why they moved that one
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  Speaker 2: limit from like six months ago to this limit, because
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: this is still an unnatural limit. No one, not even
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: James Patterson is releasing two titles a week, maybe 2000
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  Speaker 2: a month.
• 12:26
  Speaker 6: Right.
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  Speaker 4: There might be some publishing houses that do.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah. Publishing houses can release more.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:34
  Speaker 6: But the question that you're asking is, okay, have we
• 12:36
  Speaker 6: come full circle again? Are we back to saying, nevermind,
• 12:40
  Speaker 6: we only want to have, actual reputable publishers set up.
• 12:46
  Speaker 6: We were happy that we had additional ways to bring
• 12:50
  Speaker 6: more books into the world, but now it's opened the
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  Speaker 6: door for AI slop and garbage that nobody wants. This
• 12:57
  Speaker 6: is why we can't have nice things. Somebody will always
• 13:00
  Speaker 6: take advantage of it. Somebody will always ruin it.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: Amazon's in a terrible spot here. It's a spot of
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: their own making, but again, what is their desire and
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: reason to limit the amount of books sold on Amazon.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: They make a bit from every book, whether it's AI
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: slop or not. So for them, it's all PR at
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: this point. And so the only way to make them
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: really spend time looking at what they're publishing is to
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: yell at them about it. And I imagine that's probably
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: what happened and why this limit got changed so quickly
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: after the last one.
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: Probably right.
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: But it's an opportunity, Laura. You think you can come
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: up with two books a week?
• 13:44
  Speaker 6: You know the answer to that. Absolutely not.
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: I'm not sure I could come up with two good premises,
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: you know, and then tell AI to go write two
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: new premises a week. I mean, gee whiz.
• 13:57
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: Doesn't seem possible somehow.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: No.
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  Speaker 6: At my best, I could do about a book a year.
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  Speaker 4: And we know AI is reading all that garbage, so
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: AI is just going to get worse and worse as
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: it reads more of itself.
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  Speaker 3: More and more garbage.
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: What's going to happen to humans if people grow up
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  Speaker 4: reading stuff on that level? Will they even appreciate a
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: good book?
• 14:24
  Speaker 6: Nothing good.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No. Yeah.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: In Craft Corner today, we have a return visit from
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: Marty Ludlam, who will discuss how to plant a mini
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: mystery inside your story.
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: What is a mini mystery?
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: Well, he will explain. By the way, for those of
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: you who, well, are or are not watching the video
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: version of this on YouTube, Marty wanted to use slides.
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: So instead of his, you know, handsome face speaking, as
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: you normally see in Craft Corner, this time you're going
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: to see his slides.
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: Okay? Enjoy.
• 15:05
  Speaker 6: Craft Corner.
• 15:08
  Speaker 5: Welcome. Today we're talking about how readers love a mini-mystery.
• 15:14
  Speaker 5: What's a mini-mystery? Well, I'm glad you asked. I'm Marty Ludlam.
• 15:20
  Speaker 5: I wrote the Disco Diva series. I hope you enjoy those.
• 15:24
  Speaker 5: The first one is At First I Was Afraid. Yes,
• 15:27
  Speaker 5: there's a disco reference there. Out by Babylon Books. The second,
• 15:33
  Speaker 5: She Works Hard for the Money, also by Babylon Books.
• 15:37
  Speaker 5: Both of those are available on my website, LudlumBooks.net. They're
• 15:42
  Speaker 5: also available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and everywhere you
• 15:45
  Speaker 5: buy books. Now, you might think, wait a second, I
• 15:52
  Speaker 5: don't write mysteries. Don't worry, we can't all be perfect.
• 15:58
  Speaker 5: But to be honest, this idea is broader than just
• 16:01
  Speaker 5: a story that the entire plotline revolves around a mystery.
• 16:05
  Speaker 5: It's a mini-mystery. It's a little scene where you leave
• 16:08
  Speaker 5: something out for the readers. Readers love to be, or guess,
• 16:15
  Speaker 5: one step ahead of the author. They love to figure
• 16:18
  Speaker 5: out who the bad guy is, or what is happening
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: in a scene, even before the reader reveals it. We
• 16:26
  Speaker 5: all love that euphoric feeling. Now, how do you create this?
• 16:31
  Speaker 5: The easiest way, no dialogue, no words between the parties.
• 16:37
  Speaker 5: Nobody says anything. They say things, you just can't hear it.
• 16:40
  Speaker 5: And the easy way to set this up as a
• 16:43
  Speaker 5: writer is your point of view narrator, whoever that is
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: at the moment, whether it's the hero or the villain
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: or someone else, that person is far enough away from
• 16:53
  Speaker 5: the action to see it, but not hear the words.
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: And as a result, they've got to describe what they see,
• 17:00
  Speaker 5: and then the reader follows their conclusion. This is a
• 17:05
  Speaker 5: puzzle readers love to do. I'll give you two quick
• 17:10
  Speaker 5: examples to show you this in action. Scene 1. Boy
• 17:15
  Speaker 5: and a girl. Boy gets down on one knee, pulls
• 17:18
  Speaker 5: a little velvet box out of his pocket. The girl
• 17:22
  Speaker 5: steps back, rushes her hands to her face. Now we
• 17:27
  Speaker 5: know something's going on, but we can't hear what anybody's saying.
• 17:32
  Speaker 5: Now this scene can go one of two ways. So again,
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: this is our same setup. Boys on one knee, girls
• 17:39
  Speaker 5: hands to her face. In the first ending, she throws
• 17:44
  Speaker 5: her arms around the boy's neck. They hug, they kiss,
• 17:49
  Speaker 5: they start jumping up and down. That might be a
• 17:52
  Speaker 5: different ending for that same scene. So again, the same scene.
• 17:56
  Speaker 5: Boy goes down on one knee, girl's hands rush to
• 18:00
  Speaker 5: her face. She takes a step back, and another step back,
• 18:05
  Speaker 5: and walks quickly away. The boy stands up, puts the
• 18:10
  Speaker 5: little velvet box back in his pocket, and walks the
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: other way. Now, in neither one of those did you
• 18:16
  Speaker 5: have a single syllable of dialogue that you heard. But
• 18:20
  Speaker 5: you know exactly what happened. That's what I mean by mini-mystery.
• 18:24
  Speaker 5: You don't have to have all the he said, she said,
• 18:27
  Speaker 5: he said, she said. You don't even need the dialogue.
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: From your description, they know this was a proposal. And
• 18:36
  Speaker 5: in the first ending, she said yes. And in the
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: second ending, she didn't. Yeah. Powerful, powerful. And to be honest,
• 18:46
  Speaker 5: the words only slow the story down. Think you got it?
• 18:51
  Speaker 5: Let's look at one more example. Hospital waiting room.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: Yuck.
• 18:58
  Speaker 5: Aniseptic. Uncomfortable. A man and a woman sit side by side, quietly.
• 19:04
  Speaker 5: Doctor in scrubs enters the room, his forehead damp from sweat.
• 19:09
  Speaker 5: He walks up to the couple, and they stand. Think
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: we know what's going on? Well, again, we could have
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: different endings. In our first one, again, Doctor approaches, forehead
• 19:21
  Speaker 5: damp from sweat. The couple stand. The doctor says a
• 19:24
  Speaker 5: few words. The woman hugs him vigorously. The man hugs
• 19:30
  Speaker 5: them both. The man and woman hug. The man shakes
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: the doctor's hand vigorously. The woman hugs the doctor one
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: more time, and then the doctor leaves. We know what happened.
• 19:45
  Speaker 5: But there could be a different ending. In that same scene,
• 19:49
  Speaker 5: the doctor walks up, head damp from sweat. The couple stand.
• 19:56
  Speaker 5: The doctor says a few words. The woman falls to
• 19:59
  Speaker 5: her knees. The man goes down to his knees, hug
• 20:04
  Speaker 5: the woman. The doctor says a few more words and
• 20:07
  Speaker 5: walks away. Again, in both of those endings, in neither
• 20:12
  Speaker 5: one of them did you get a single word of vocabulary.
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: No dialogue between them. But you know exactly what happened.
• 20:21
  Speaker 5: That's the power of that mini-mystery. Your description tells the
• 20:25
  Speaker 5: reader what happened, even though they couldn't hear a single
• 20:29
  Speaker 5: word anyone was saying. Trust me when I say readers love, love,
• 20:34
  Speaker 5: love to be able to figure out these puzzles. They
• 20:38
  Speaker 5: love to know what's going on or have a guess.
• 20:42
  Speaker 5: And again, sometimes they enjoy also being wrong, but they
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: love being able to predict what happened instead of you
• 20:47
  Speaker 5: just flatly saying, the butler did it. Give your readers
• 20:54
  Speaker 5: a chance to solve a mini-mystery. Again, the easy way,
• 20:57
  Speaker 5: develop a scene, no dialogue, so the reader has to
• 21:01
  Speaker 5: guess what's being said. Your readers will love it. My
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: little hint, Make it a scene that has a strong emotion,
• 21:10
  Speaker 5: either positive or negative. Makes it easier. Questions? Anything else?
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: Contact me, Marty Ludlam, the writer at Gmail. If not,
• 21:22
  Speaker 5: I'll see everybody next time.
• 21:24
  Speaker 6: Thanks.
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: Thanks, Marty. Now let's talk to Anne Aguirre. Anne Aguirre,
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: welcome to the podcast.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. I'm delighted to
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: be here.
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: We are very privileged and happy and honored to have you. Okay,
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: here's our traditional first question. If you could offer writers
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: one piece of advice, and at this point you could
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: probably offer a lot, but pick one. What's the top
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: piece of advice you'd offer writers?
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: Believe in yourself. There may be people who tell you
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: that you have to have a platform already or you
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: need to be rich or you need to be well-connected.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: You need to know people in the industry. There are
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: always going to be people who don't want you to
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: succeed because they have given up on their own dreams.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: I cannot guarantee you that you will succeed if you
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: keep trying. But if you quit, if you give up
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: on yourself, I do guarantee that you will fail.
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: Great advice.
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: Let's talk about your journey a little bit. Did you
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: always want to be a writer? I know you've done
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: other things. I read that you were a voice actress and,
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: more disturbingly, a clown at some point. Were you a
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: friendly bozo type clown or an evil Pennywise type clown?
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: Well, I have had other jobs, but I did always
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: want to be a writer. I wouldn't say that I
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: have ever wanted to be a clown. I actually have
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: mild chlorophobia, which made it even more traumatizing. Do you
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: want the clown story or do you want.
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: Oh, let's hear it.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: I think the listeners would not forgive me if I
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: said no to the clown story.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: So basically my sister was a clown and she was
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: doing really well with it. And she actually took like
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: a training course in how to clown. And she did
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: it as a freelance business. She did birthdays. She did
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: grand openings of like gas stations or supermarkets and where
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: she would blow up balloons and give away snacks and
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: just that type of thing. And she was doing so
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: well that she had more business than she knew what
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: to do with. And for some reason, do not ask
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: me why only my sister would know this. She had
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: an extra clown suit. And so she just gave me
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: the clown suit one day and was like, put this on.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: I have a booking. I can't do it. And I
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: was like, I do not want to do this. And
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: then she was like, I'll give you $ 40. And back
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: in the day, I was earning like $ 3 an hour.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: And I was like, how long do I have to
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: wear it? Like maybe two hours. Okay, I am going
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: to wear the clown suit. So once I agreed to
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: put on the clown suit, I kept putting on the
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: clown suit. And when I went back to college, I
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: did appearances. As a clown, and it was very funny
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: because I drove a 1984 Plymouth Horizon bright orange, which
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: is essentially a tiny little hatchback. It was literally a
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: clown car. And when you're doing gas station grand openings
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: in a clown car. it's not like they have a
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: green room for you to get dressed in. So I
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: had to put on the full outfit and do my
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: makeup in my apartment. So I'll be driving down the
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: highway in my little clown car on my way to
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: the gas station grand opening. And I just got so
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: many looks and people doing double takes as I'm driving.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: And I would just be like, Wow.
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: But since you gave up the world of clowning, and
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: started writing, you have had tremendous success. You've hit all
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: kinds of lists, New York Times, USA Today. You've written
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: about every genre there is to write, it appears to me.
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: Do you have a favorite?
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Whatever I am writing and enjoying is my current favorite.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: I have a brain that is very eclectic, I'll say.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: Are you familiar with the dog from Up, Doug? who
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: said squirrel and then chases something in a different, in
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: a direction. That's what my brain does. So I will
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: write a particular genre until it stops being fun. And
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: then my brain will have a very squirrel idea and
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: then I will chase it. And I have been very
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: fortunate to turn those squirrel tendencies into a career.
• 26:26
  Speaker 6: Well, tell us about the latest, Squirrel Chasing Adventure, your
• 26:30
  Speaker 6: newest book, The Hocus Pocus Handbook. That sounds so fun.
• 26:35
  Speaker 6: I want to hear about this.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Well, it is actually part of a duology. Both books
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: stand alone, so they can be read on either side.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: But to get the complete story, reading the Hocus Pocus
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: handbook and The Only Purple House in Town is suggested.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: But it doesn't really matter which one you read first.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: They are both changeling stories. And what's fun about that
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: is I thought about it. And while you often get
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: a changeling story, which is, you know, a very special
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Fae person who's raised in the mortal world and they
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: have all of these unique abilities and like, why do
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: birds suddenly appear every time you are near? It's because
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: they're Fae.
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: That story has been told a lot, but I could
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: not remember it being paired specifically with accounting for the
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: person who was stolen and then raised in fairy at
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: the same time, like both sides of the coin. And
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: I decided it would be fun to do that. And
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: also really fun to completely build a Fae, my own
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Fae world from the ground up. And so that's what
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: I do in the Hocus Pocus handbook. I had the
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: opportunity to do all the Fae world building. And it
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: is a grumpy sunshine, slow burn romance as well. Readers
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: are really responding to it. And I was just over
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: the moon when the team told me that it hit
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: the USA Today bestseller list.
• 28:17
  Speaker 6: That's so exciting. I'm thrilled for you. but you have
• 28:20
  Speaker 6: a number of series as well. You have like the
• 28:23
  Speaker 6: Galactic Love series, the Fix It Witches series, Honor series,
• 28:28
  Speaker 6: the Razorland trilogy. How do you pick what you're going
• 28:32
  Speaker 6: to work on next? Are those still works in progress?
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: No, I don't actually have, well, I guess technically the
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: serial I'm writing now is part of a new series
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: that that is tied to Galactic Love, but the Galactic
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: Love trilogy is complete. This next book is just set
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: in the same universe. It's not really pivotally related to
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: the first trilogy. And I just named it Galactic Love 2,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: Love Harder to be funny, because readers tend to like that. Yes.
• 29:09
  Speaker 6: So each of these was just an idea of that
• 29:13
  Speaker 6: squirrel moment, right? Like you just had this great idea
• 29:16
  Speaker 6: and went after that. Yeah.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: And they, they are those, the ones you've named are
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: all written to completion. Now the fix it, which is
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: world does tie to the purple house and the hocus
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: pocus handbook. They are set in the same pervasive universe.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: And there are a few characters that make appearances, but again,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: if you, haven't read the Fix-It Witches trilogy, you will
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: still have a good time reading the other two books.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: What I do find is that readers who come and
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: pick up Hocus Pocus, well, then they want to read
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: Purple House and then they want to work backwards because
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: they want to read like what happened to create the
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: world that is existing in this state. And then they
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: just enjoy like the backlist.
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: That's a nice tribute. It means they like living in
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: your world.
• 30:09
  Speaker 6: I'll probably start at the, I'm kind of a purist.
• 30:11
  Speaker 6: I kind of like to start at the beginning and
• 30:14
  Speaker 6: read forward.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:15
  Speaker 6: Well, you're obviously very highly productive. What does your writing
• 30:19
  Speaker 6: day look like?
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: It used to be really organized. You know, I would,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: I would have a routine and I would get up
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: and take care of the pets and then immediately go
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: to my office and write for like, you know, four
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: to five hours. I don't do that anymore, mainly because
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: I have so many more balls in the air. Now
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: that I'm in Washington and, because I'm in grad school
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: full time. I just did a book tour. I also
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: do pro bono work as a certified advocate with survivors
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: of domestic violence. I also do community reach with our
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: unhoused neighbors in Bellingham. I cook for a mutual aid
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: group and they distribute meals. And then I also keep
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: snack kits in my car that I give out when
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: I'm out running errands. And so I just have so
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: many more pieces that I'm currently making fit that basically
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: writing is kind of now what I do when I
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: have a chance to sit down. Like I'm just running
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: and doing other things. And then when I find myself
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: at my laptop, I'm like, okay, let's see how much
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: work I can get before I fall asleep. type of thing.
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 31:44
  Speaker 6: Those are all really admirable pursuits, though. I mean, if
• 31:51
  Speaker 6: you're fighting to find time to write, I mean, that's
• 31:53
  Speaker 6: a really good reason why.
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: Do you outline or any kind of preparation or do
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: you just go for it?
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: I am what I like to jokingly call a planter.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: which is a combination of a plotter and a pantser.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: My process is this. When I go into a book,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: I know what the opening scene is, and I know
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: what the ending scene is. Everything from point A to
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: point Z is a question mark. I will write the
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: entire first act freestyle, just kind of getting to know
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: the characters, and like seeing their personalities and their styles
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: and that kind of thing. Then that takes me to
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: act two, which I affectionately call the swampy middle of doom.
• 32:47
  Speaker 6: If I don't.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Want the swampy middle of doom to turn into this
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: really boring, draggy, overly padded nonsense, then I need to evaluate, okay,
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: this is where I ended act one. I know what
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: I need to happen at the end of act two. Three.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: So what kind of pacing do I need in order
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: to keep the reader engaged? At that point, I wouldn't
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: say I do any outlining, but I kind of basically
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: do some briefs. That are like, you know, chapter 11,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: they encounter a shocking truth and then there's an argument.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: Chapter 12, they do some research and they reach out
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: to someone's uncle who knows the family secrets. And like,
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: I'll do that type of thing all through act two.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: And as I'm writing, like sometimes my educated guess was
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: completely way off the mark and I'll have a much
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: better idea in the shower. And I'm like, okay, no,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: this is not the place for a road trip. This
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: is where I am going to do something else entirely.
• 33:58
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: That's, that's writing though. But you start with at least something, right?
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: And then, of course, it modifies. Okay, we've made it
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: to the lightning round where I get to ask my
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: ridiculous questions that may or may not have anything to
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: do with writing. But I've been waiting all day to
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: ask you.
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: No pressure.
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: If you could jump into a time machine and change anything,
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: do anything, what would you do?
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: I feel like that... I should say that I want
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: to go and do something really important. Like, I don't know,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: kill someone who does terrible things. But I feel like
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: I would really rather just go to Paris in the
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: 20s and just kind of soak it all in. when
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: all like the jazz culture and all the famous writers
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: were there in an enclave. And like, I think it
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: would just be really cool to be part of that
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: expat writing community in the twenties and just see it
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: all firsthand. And then if I could go back to
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: my own time and write an amazing book, like based
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: on firsthand observations, I feel like that would just be
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: a genius move.
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: Well, you made it about writing.
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: See, that was perfect.
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: We all just need a time machine.
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: That's all right.
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: Well, speaking of writers for the past, so you can't
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: use Hemingway, Faulkner, Fitzgerald, or anybody who would have been
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: in Paris in the.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: 1920s, but.
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: What writer would you most like to sit.
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: Down and have dinner with?
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: Living or dead, I'll even let you have two writers
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: if you want to.
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: Just to make it a little easier.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: I think it would be very funny to have dinner
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: with Dickens and Shakespeare. I wonder how they would get along.
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: I think Dickens might feel threatened.
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: For all the plays and the debates about authorship, I
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: don't know that I really feel I have a sense
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: of a Shakespearean personality.
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: Would he.
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: Treat Dickens like an upstart or would he be saying, oh,
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: this business with the orphans, this is pretty good? I
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: don't really know.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: I feel like Dickens would pick a fight with him
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: because I think Dickens would feel threatened over who has
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: the legacy and I think it would be very funny
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: to see Dickens being petty at Shakespeare.
• 36:41
  Speaker 6: That would be amazing.
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: Great answer. Okay, one more question. What's next from you?
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: What are you working on now or what's going to
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: come out next?
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: Well, I currently have five books that are in different
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: stages of the process. I have two books that are
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: on submission that are completed. I have a thriller that
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: I need to finish revising. I have a novel that
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: it's about halfway done. It's a science fiction romance. That
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: will be the next thing that publishes when I finish it.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: And then I have.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: A secret project that I cannot discuss at all for
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: legal reasons.
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: For legal reasons. Oh my gosh. Give us a hint.
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: No can do.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Just a little hint.
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: Genre.
• 37:32
  Speaker 6: She said not at all.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 37:34
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: I won't mess up your deal.
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: Hey, Anne, thanks for being on the podcast. It's been fun.
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: I really appreciate it.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time.
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: Just a few parting words. WriterCon 2027 is September 3rd
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: through 6th. Long time from now, sort of. But you
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: could take advantage of the early bird prices or at
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: least go visit the website and see what we've got
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: in mind for next year. That's writercon.com. And the small
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: group retreat will be May 12th through the 16th. Don't
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: forget about the WriterCon newsletter on Substack. Just go visit
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: and search for WriterCon, and you'll find all kinds of newsletters.
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: We do a new one every month on many breaking issues,
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: plus we post about new agents and publishers and what
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: they're looking for, all kinds of stuff that might be
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: of interest to you. And I think you should join
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: the WriterCon Facebook group, too. We're there every day chatting
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: it up and talking about the new issues and books
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: of the day, so... I'll put a link in the
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: show notes, but it's easy to find. Just go to
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: Facebook and search for WriterCon, okay? Until next time, keep writing.
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: And remember, you cannot fail if you refuse to quit.
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: See you next time.