Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Johnny Depp v Amber Heard: ROUND TWO

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Johnny Depp v Amber Heard: ROUND TWO · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. You would have to be
0:15
Speaker 1: under a rock in a cave on the other side
0:20
Speaker 1: of the world, and even then you would probably still
0:24
Speaker 1: hear about Johnny Depp versus Amber Heard. And guess what,
0:30
Speaker 1: it's not over yet. I mean, Nancy Grace, this is
0:34
Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at
0:36
Speaker 1: Fox Nation and Serious XM one eleven. Even within the
0:40
Speaker 1: last hours, Amber Heard is publicly stating that she stands
0:46
Speaker 1: by her testimony and that she was beaten by Johnny
0:51
Speaker 1: Depp and slamming the glamorous lawyer Camille Vasquez for defending
0:58
Speaker 1: the quote liar she's referring to Johnny Depp. Let's just
1:03
Speaker 1: kick it off, guys. I want you to hear my
1:07
Speaker 1: friend from Court TV, Savannah Guthrie now of course, at
1:10
Speaker 1: the NBC Today Show. This is Savannah speaking with Amber
1:15
Speaker 1: and you can see it on air Tuesday June fourteen,
1:18
Speaker 1: Wednesday June fifteen on NBC Today, Friday June seventeen on
1:23
Speaker 1: Dateline on NBC. Of course, I want you to take
1:27
Speaker 1: a listen to Savannah speaking with Amber as you sit
1:33
Speaker 1: here with me. Now has it sunken? How could it surreal?
1:44
Speaker 1: And difficult in part. Yes, this has been a long
1:51
Speaker 1: time coming. Do you stand by your testimony and your
1:55
Speaker 1: accusations against Johnny Depp about abuse? Of course, to my
2:00
Speaker 1: dying day, will stand by every word of my testimony.
2:03
Speaker 1: You are hearing Amber heard speaking out stating that she's
2:07
Speaker 1: standing by her testimony. Now, that is not surprising to
2:12
Speaker 1: me at all, but taking a swipe at the jury,
2:18
Speaker 1: I am a little surprised at that, and I want
2:21
Speaker 1: you to hear what Amber heard states to our friends
2:23
Speaker 1: Savannah Guthrie at NBC and again. You can see it
2:26
Speaker 1: all on the Today Show June fifteen and ju fourteen,
2:31
Speaker 1: and then Friday night on Dateline. Listen, this is our
2:34
Speaker 1: cut z. I don't care what one thinks about me
2:37
Speaker 1: or what judgments you want to make about what happened
2:40
Speaker 1: in the privacy of my own home, in my marriage,
2:42
Speaker 1: behind closed stores. I don't presume the average person should
2:46
Speaker 1: know those things, and so I don't take it personally.
2:49
Speaker 1: But even somebody who is sure I'm deserving of all
2:56
Speaker 1: this hate in vitriol, even if you think that I'm lying,
3:01
Speaker 1: you still couldn't look me in the eye and tell
3:03
Speaker 1: me that you think on social media there's been a
3:05
Speaker 1: fair representation. You cannot tell me that you think that
3:09
Speaker 1: this has been fair. Of course, we also touched on
3:13
Speaker 1: what happened in court and what the jury decided. There's
3:17
Speaker 1: no polite way to say it. The jury looked at
3:21
Speaker 1: the evidence you presented, They listened to your testimony, and
3:25
Speaker 1: they did not believe you. They thought you were lying.
3:29
Speaker 1: How could I'll put it this way, how could they
3:35
Speaker 1: make a judgment? How could they not come to that conclusion?
3:39
Speaker 1: They had sat in those seats and heard over three
3:43
Speaker 1: weeks of NonStop, relentless testimony from paid employees, and towards
3:52
Speaker 1: the end of the trial, Randos as I say, so,
3:56
Speaker 1: you don't blame the jury. I don't blame them. It
3:59
Speaker 1: wasn't I don't blame them. I actually understand. He's a
4:03
Speaker 1: beloved character, and people feel they know him. He's a
4:07
Speaker 1: fantastic actor. Their job is to not be dazzled by that.
4:12
Speaker 1: Their job is to look at the facts and the evidence,
4:15
Speaker 1: and they did not believe your testimony or your evidence. Again,
4:23
Speaker 1: how could they after listening to three and a half
4:26
Speaker 1: weeks of testimony about how I was an noncredible person,
4:31
Speaker 1: not to believe a word that came out of my mouth. Okay,
4:35
Speaker 1: let's figure out what's happening right now. Apparently Johnny Depp
4:40
Speaker 1: versus Amber heard is far from over even right now,
4:46
Speaker 1: Amber heard speaking out stating the jury got it wrong
4:50
Speaker 1: and that Depp is a liar again. I Meancy Grace,
4:53
Speaker 1: this is crime story Nicer being with us here at
4:55
Speaker 1: flox Nation in series six one eleven with me an
4:58
Speaker 1: all star panel deal car high profile lawyer, former fit
5:02
Speaker 1: with the FBI, author of Arrest Proof Yourself. He's Adel
5:06
Speaker 1: Carson Law dot com. Karen Stark for Now New York
5:09
Speaker 1: psychologist at Karen Stark dot com. John Guard, Chief Deputy
5:13
Speaker 1: Pitt County Sheriff's Office. Susan Constantine, body language expert, author
5:19
Speaker 1: of The Complete Idiots Guide to Reading Body Language. And
5:22
Speaker 1: Charlie Langston Dailymail dot com. She is the editor of
5:26
Speaker 1: Female That Is Femail. Charlie, what is happening and what
5:32
Speaker 1: is her trying to say? Now? Yeah, we all watched
5:35
Speaker 1: the trial. We all saw the same thing the jury saw.
5:39
Speaker 1: The thing that really stuck out to me was when
5:42
Speaker 1: she was saying, how could the jury believe me when
5:45
Speaker 1: they had heard testimony saying that I was incredible? The
5:48
Speaker 1: thing is it was her job to prove that she
5:50
Speaker 1: was credible. It was her job, it was her legal
5:53
Speaker 1: team's job to prove that her testimony was credible and
5:56
Speaker 1: should be believed. So I don't know why she's blaming
5:59
Speaker 1: the jury for finding her uncredible. That's not their fault.
6:03
Speaker 1: Now she has once again publicly accused Depth of not
6:08
Speaker 1: only being physically abusive towards her during their marriage, but
6:11
Speaker 1: then of lying about it on the stand. And she's
6:14
Speaker 1: also thrown the jury under the bus by saying that
6:17
Speaker 1: they were duped by his fantastic acting, that they were
6:21
Speaker 1: swayed by social media. I mean, honestly, there isn't a
6:24
Speaker 1: single person here who she hasn't managed to insult. She
6:27
Speaker 1: even insulted her own legal team by suggesting that Depth's
6:31
Speaker 1: legal team did a better job of winning over the
6:34
Speaker 1: jury during the trial. You know, here's the kicker, Dale
6:38
Speaker 1: Carson joining me, high profile lawyer out of Jacksonville. She
6:41
Speaker 1: is again under the law. We call it republishing. In
6:45
Speaker 1: other words, when you know something is false and you
6:49
Speaker 1: publish it. In other words, you repeat it or you
6:52
Speaker 1: print it when you republish something. Basically, she's doing the
6:59
Speaker 1: same thing again and if he wanted to deep, I
7:04
Speaker 1: think under the law could sue her again for what
7:07
Speaker 1: she's say right now. Well, that's actually right, because it's
7:12
Speaker 1: actionable what she's saying right now. And my advice to
7:15
Speaker 1: all of my clients is to don't talk about stuff
7:19
Speaker 1: to anybody. It can't help your case. You know. I
7:23
Speaker 1: had an iron clad rule as a prosecutor that I
7:28
Speaker 1: very rarely, if ever deviated from, and that was, don't
7:34
Speaker 1: speak to the press about your case, period unless it's over.
7:40
Speaker 1: If I was followed, I would always say the same thing.
7:44
Speaker 1: I believe the jury will hand down a true verdict, ma'am.
7:48
Speaker 1: That's it. That's much better than just saying no content.
7:52
Speaker 1: And it shows you're more comfortable with the media than
7:55
Speaker 1: a lot of prosecutors are because you need to say
7:58
Speaker 1: something to the press, and it was true. I was
8:00
Speaker 1: very confident that juries would hand out a true verdict.
8:04
Speaker 1: And I also find this Susan Constantine with me. I mean,
8:09
Speaker 1: she's the founder of the Human Behavior Academy dot com
8:13
Speaker 1: with a new on demand course, how to Spot a
8:15
Speaker 1: Liar in seven seconds or less. Okay, I'm totally watching that,
8:18
Speaker 1: Susan Constantine. Susan all of us on the panel right now,
8:22
Speaker 1: watch this trial. I want to figure out from your
8:27
Speaker 1: point of view, what is she doing. Even an animal
8:32
Speaker 1: goes to its cave to lick its wounds alone, why
8:35
Speaker 1: come out full force like this? You know what? I
8:37
Speaker 1: think that this really boils back down to she's just
8:41
Speaker 1: emotionally unstable. I think this really is more rooted psychologically,
8:46
Speaker 1: and all we're seeing is all of that playing out again.
8:50
Speaker 1: She cannot be told. She said, you cannot tell me,
8:54
Speaker 1: and you just stop right there. Right there in that
8:58
Speaker 1: statement is telling you you can't tell me anything because
9:02
Speaker 1: everything that she says is truth. Whatever everything says that
9:06
Speaker 1: Johnny Deps and his team says is false. But she
9:10
Speaker 1: has already been convicted, so to speak, based on her
9:14
Speaker 1: own demeanor evidence. I mean, her snarkiness, her condescension, She
9:22
Speaker 1: plays the victim, her dramas drama, dramatizing everything that when
9:27
Speaker 1: you read, when you watch her facial expressions, Nancy, it
9:31
Speaker 1: is really remarkable when you see that she really exhibits
9:36
Speaker 1: this really negative of expressions of contempt and disgust. And
9:43
Speaker 1: what's happening is that when because she shows it so much,
9:47
Speaker 1: it actually is creating in front of that jury in
9:50
Speaker 1: the public to feel those same emotions. But it's being
9:54
Speaker 1: now on her because that's what happens when you're around
9:59
Speaker 1: someone you smile, It creates smiling when you're snarky, and
10:04
Speaker 1: so what it's going to create that snarkiness so negative
10:06
Speaker 1: to get negativity so that she's she is her own
10:10
Speaker 1: worth enemy. I wouldn't you know. I've worked in cases
10:13
Speaker 1: like similar to this. I worked on the Jeffrey Epstein
10:15
Speaker 1: case and worked as a witness good witness prop for
10:18
Speaker 1: one of the sexual assault victims. And I'll tell you what.
10:22
Speaker 1: I've worked with her like six different times, listening through
10:26
Speaker 1: cross examination, et cetera, how she would respond and watching
10:30
Speaker 1: her demeanor and everything met up to what a victim
10:35
Speaker 1: would be like. Okay, and Amber Heard exhibits everything what
10:39
Speaker 1: a victim doesn't look like. So you know, but if
10:42
Speaker 1: the evidence is there, demeanor evidence is there, and that's
10:45
Speaker 1: what the problem is. You know, I'm very curious about
10:48
Speaker 1: something he just says is in constantane. You said Amber
10:50
Speaker 1: Heard represents everything a victim doesn't look like. What do
10:54
Speaker 1: you mean by that? Okay? What I mean by that
10:57
Speaker 1: is that her expressions were not emoting what her words
11:01
Speaker 1: were saying. So when she was talking about her being victimized,
11:06
Speaker 1: or that he was hitting her or whatever, her hands
11:08
Speaker 1: did not move in the same movement her hand gestures
11:11
Speaker 1: or facial expressions, and they were out of sink. So
11:15
Speaker 1: that what happened was is that her she was exaggerating
11:19
Speaker 1: in strength. I do believe that there was altercation, but
11:22
Speaker 1: she exploited it and made it so much bigger than
11:25
Speaker 1: what it was. That's why it was throwing off all
11:29
Speaker 1: those indicators of deception. And that's what I thought, That's
11:33
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. She didn't appear like a true
11:36
Speaker 1: victim because it wasn't in sink, and when it's out
11:40
Speaker 1: of sink, it's out of stink for a reason. Time
11:54
Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace to Charlie Links and joining me
12:02
Speaker 1: editor of Female at delhimall dot com. I found this
12:06
Speaker 1: very unusual that somebody goes online claiming to be a
12:13
Speaker 1: jurar off the Amber Heard Johnny Depp trial, and unusually
12:19
Speaker 1: these jurars can remain anonymous for up to a year.
12:24
Speaker 1: This person goes online claiming to be a depth jurar
12:29
Speaker 1: and states everything she was saying came off like bull
12:34
Speaker 1: shi and that because Amber lied. Amber heard lied about
12:39
Speaker 1: donating divorce settlement money to charities. Because she lied about that,
12:47
Speaker 1: that that big fat hawk and lie sunk her credibility.
12:52
Speaker 1: Now it's coming out this may vary well not be
12:56
Speaker 1: a jurar. It's believed at the diatribe was sent from
13:04
Speaker 1: an email not within the Virginia area. But that said,
13:09
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're gonna lie about your donations to
13:13
Speaker 1: charity and trying to fake off the jury saying, well,
13:16
Speaker 1: to me, donating pledge are the same thing. It's not
13:20
Speaker 1: a pledge as a promise that you're gonna do something.
13:23
Speaker 1: I mean, the road to hell is paved with good intentions,
13:26
Speaker 1: but it's a whole another thing whether you actually fought
13:29
Speaker 1: over the money. Charlie, what do you think about the
13:33
Speaker 1: person claiming to be a Depth JURR Well, I think,
13:36
Speaker 1: I mean, this person has now been proven to be
13:39
Speaker 1: a fake. But I think what they were saying and
13:42
Speaker 1: what they were publishing on their TikTok account were points
13:46
Speaker 1: that had already been made by legal experts, by members
13:50
Speaker 1: of Depth's own legal team. And that was that Amber
13:53
Speaker 1: lied on the stand that made the jury not believe
13:57
Speaker 1: everything else that she said. And I think it's also
14:00
Speaker 1: worth pointing out Amber has admitted to being violent towards Johnny.
14:05
Speaker 1: She said that in her Today interview with Savannah Guthrie. However,
14:10
Speaker 1: she once again, rather than taking full accountability, she deflected
14:15
Speaker 1: it back to Johnny and said, oh, well, yes I
14:18
Speaker 1: might have hit him, I might have done horrible things,
14:20
Speaker 1: but I only ever did it because I was a
14:22
Speaker 1: victim of psychological, emotional and physical abuse. And what Depth's
14:26
Speaker 1: legal team has already said is that they believe one
14:29
Speaker 1: of the major reasons that the jury did not get
14:32
Speaker 1: behind her is because she failed to take accountability for
14:36
Speaker 1: any of her actions on the stand. You had Depth
14:39
Speaker 1: who readily admitted to having issues with drug and alcohol
14:43
Speaker 1: substance abuse. He admitted to staying and texting, saying he
14:48
Speaker 1: wished he hadn't. However, Amber had an excuse for everything.
14:52
Speaker 1: While she's kind of said, oh well, yes I might
14:54
Speaker 1: have done this, it was only because this had happened
14:57
Speaker 1: to me. And I think that that's one of the
15:00
Speaker 1: key things that prevented the jury from really believing her
15:04
Speaker 1: the credible witness who kind of felt remorse and who
15:07
Speaker 1: was really struggling as a victim. Regarding the jury, there
15:11
Speaker 1: are very subtle insults to the jury and everything that
15:16
Speaker 1: she says. She says that they were persuaded by Johnny
15:22
Speaker 1: Depp's reputation he's a beloved actor, that they couldn't see
15:27
Speaker 1: the truth that they basically had been getting their evidence
15:33
Speaker 1: and facts from social media, even though the judge instruct
15:37
Speaker 1: to them not to. As a matter of fact, take
15:40
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut b B. Now again, this
15:44
Speaker 1: is Amber heard speaking to our friends Savannah Guthrie at
15:47
Speaker 1: NBC Today and you can see that on the Today
15:50
Speaker 1: Show Tuesday and Wednesday, and on NBC at Night on
15:55
Speaker 1: Friday on Dateline. Listen. Vast majority of this trial was
16:00
Speaker 1: played out on social media. I think that this trial
16:04
Speaker 1: is an example of that gone hey, why are gone
16:08
Speaker 1: them up? And the jury is not immune to that.
16:10
Speaker 1: Do you think the jury saw it? How could they not?
16:12
Speaker 1: I think even the most well intentioned or it would
16:17
Speaker 1: have been impossible to avoid this and more in our
16:20
Speaker 1: cut A, I would not blame the average person for
16:23
Speaker 1: looking at this and how it's been covered and not
16:26
Speaker 1: think that it is a Hollywood brats at their worst.
16:33
Speaker 1: But what people don't understand is it's actually so much
16:39
Speaker 1: bigger than that this is. This is not only about
16:44
Speaker 1: our First Amendment right to speak. But here's the thing
16:47
Speaker 1: about the First Amendment. The First Amendment protects free speech.
16:50
Speaker 1: It doesn't protect lies that amount to defamation. And that
16:53
Speaker 1: was the issue in the case. Yes, exactly, you can't
16:56
Speaker 1: go into the free speech does not protect you if you,
17:00
Speaker 1: you know, go into a crowded theater and you scream fire.
17:04
Speaker 1: We get the concept of free speech from the Greeks.
17:07
Speaker 1: My understanding of what that means is not just the
17:09
Speaker 1: freedom to speak. It's a freedom to speak truth to power.
17:16
Speaker 1: The truth is the word. Yes, that was the issue,
17:19
Speaker 1: and that's all I spoke, and I spoke it to power,
17:22
Speaker 1: and I paid the price. Okay, do not mess with
17:25
Speaker 1: Savannah Guthrie when it comes to the law, because she
17:28
Speaker 1: is not only a journalist, she's a lawyer as well.
17:32
Speaker 1: So don't be coming at her with your home cooked
17:36
Speaker 1: theories about what the First Amendment really is because she
17:41
Speaker 1: will totally call you on that. Karen starting your psychologists
17:44
Speaker 1: joining for us from Manhattan. Karen, she's actually digging in.
17:50
Speaker 1: I spoke to truth and power and I paid the price.
17:55
Speaker 1: She's digging in. Those are her words, not mine, and
17:59
Speaker 1: blaming the jury, accusing them of trolling the internet during
18:03
Speaker 1: the trial. And if you listen to it, Nancy, if
18:05
Speaker 1: she's trying to get public opinion to turn in her favor,
18:10
Speaker 1: then she's going in a totally wrong direction because it
18:14
Speaker 1: still doesn't account like this woman is being accountable for anything.
18:19
Speaker 1: And why in the world after she's being asked to
18:24
Speaker 1: give ten million dollars to Johnny Depp, would she go
18:28
Speaker 1: on air and start this all over again. There's something
18:33
Speaker 1: really wrong. And I do agree with you, I really
18:37
Speaker 1: do that both of them are at fall. But at
18:39
Speaker 1: least he's taking responsibility for his end of it. I
18:43
Speaker 1: don't think it was just acting. I think he was
18:46
Speaker 1: able to say, yeah, I did these things, and she
18:49
Speaker 1: comes across as not just she you know all this
18:53
Speaker 1: has happened to me, but kind of arrogant and look
18:57
Speaker 1: at that jury and justice has not been served and
19:00
Speaker 1: it's really something that is not going to be if
19:03
Speaker 1: people think another thing. I wouldn't be surprised if she
19:07
Speaker 1: doesn't end up getting sued again. There was talk after
19:11
Speaker 1: you Trolley lankson dalemall dot com that Depp may not
19:16
Speaker 1: go after her for the money that he has cleared
19:18
Speaker 1: his name, he won a trial, and he would not
19:22
Speaker 1: pursue what turns out to be about eight point three
19:25
Speaker 1: five million dollars. What about that? Yes, his legal team
19:29
Speaker 1: have suggested that he might be willing to waive the
19:31
Speaker 1: payment now that his reputation has been restored. They've made
19:35
Speaker 1: very clear that this trial for him was not about
19:38
Speaker 1: getting a huge lump sum of money. It was not
19:41
Speaker 1: about bankrupting Amber. It was about clearing his name as
19:45
Speaker 1: far as the legal process was concerned and as far
19:48
Speaker 1: as the court of public opinion is concerned, and I
19:52
Speaker 1: think he has proven very clearly that that has happened.
19:55
Speaker 1: We've seen rumors circulating that he is going to be
19:59
Speaker 1: do more movies, that he's going to be doing sequels
20:02
Speaker 1: to movies that he's already made. His dr Fragrance AD
20:06
Speaker 1: has been put back on the air after his name
20:09
Speaker 1: was cleared in court. So I think as far as
20:12
Speaker 1: his reputation is concerned, he's done exactly what he wanted
20:15
Speaker 1: to do. Now the question will be whether or not
20:19
Speaker 1: he decides to pursue legal action against Amber for this
20:22
Speaker 1: Today's Show interview, not because he wants to try and
20:25
Speaker 1: gain money from her, but because I think he needs
20:29
Speaker 1: to make clear that this isn't going to be something
20:32
Speaker 1: that he's going to allow to continue for months, if
20:35
Speaker 1: not years on end. My question would be, if this
20:38
Speaker 1: interview goes unchecked, if these republished claims against him of
20:43
Speaker 1: physical abuse go unchecked, what does that mean for the
20:47
Speaker 1: future and what else might Amber come forward and say
20:50
Speaker 1: in the months and indeed years after the trial has concluded.
20:54
Speaker 1: So we also learned that he is heading across the
20:58
Speaker 1: ocean to create a movie about Louis the fifteenth in France,
21:03
Speaker 1: and there are rumblings that there may be a Pirates
21:07
Speaker 1: of the Caribbean reboot. We'll wait to see about that.
21:11
Speaker 1: But how did the two of them respond to the
21:15
Speaker 1: jury verdict? We understand Depth was still the UK touring
21:20
Speaker 1: with his band, but he took a little D two
21:24
Speaker 1: or take less an hour cut l L. Yeah, we
21:27
Speaker 1: were very excited to have Johnny Depp in our restaurant,
21:30
Speaker 1: But there are a lot of rumors going around at
21:32
Speaker 1: the moment in respect to how much he actually spent
21:35
Speaker 1: in the restaurant and his an unconfirmed amount because we
21:39
Speaker 1: haven't actually disclosed anything as of yet. But you I
21:43
Speaker 1: understand had quite a long chat with Johnny Depp, but
21:45
Speaker 1: maybe about his movie career is all right. We were
21:50
Speaker 1: just discussing his day to day life at the moment
21:53
Speaker 1: and how he's enjoying Birmingham, what he likes to eat,
21:57
Speaker 1: and we were just delighted to have him now. Restaurant
22:00
Speaker 1: in Birmingham City Center is quite unheard of to have
22:04
Speaker 1: an alista being around, especially on Broad Street in Birmingham.
22:09
Speaker 1: You're hearing our friend Piers Morgan speaking to the owner
22:13
Speaker 1: of the curry house where a dept went to celebrate
22:16
Speaker 1: the victory around fifty thousand pounds, which I think equals
22:21
Speaker 1: up to about sixty thousand dollars. No depth bitn't need
22:24
Speaker 1: all that. As usual, he had an entourage hanging around
22:29
Speaker 1: that he had to pay for or chose to pay for.
22:33
Speaker 1: John Guard, chief deputy joining us a Pitt County Sheriff's
22:35
Speaker 1: Office out of Greenville, North Carolina. John, I want to
22:38
Speaker 1: circle back to clearly the angry feelings between the two
22:44
Speaker 1: of them. It was not resolved with a jury verdict,
22:49
Speaker 1: was it. You can see that by Hurd's comments basically
22:54
Speaker 1: suddenly dismissing the jury verdict, explaining away how they couldn't
22:59
Speaker 1: see the truth through depths persona, how they got their
23:04
Speaker 1: information from social media, how he did a great acting
23:08
Speaker 1: job and they fell for it, and so forth and
23:11
Speaker 1: so on. So is that the way it always ends
23:16
Speaker 1: in domestic cases, the bitter feud goes on well after
23:22
Speaker 1: the verdict. Well, you know, not necessarily. And I just
23:26
Speaker 1: like to say how glad I am that I work
23:30
Speaker 1: within the criminal courts and you know, a lot of
23:33
Speaker 1: our cases or I'll navigate the courts in a different way,
23:38
Speaker 1: different levels of proof. And fortunately of those that do report,
23:42
Speaker 1: we're able to come in and do an investigation and
23:45
Speaker 1: have you know, unbiased fact finders bringing information in. But
23:51
Speaker 1: you know, as a career officer and one that's focused
23:55
Speaker 1: the majority of his career on the prevention of intimate
23:59
Speaker 1: partner violence, I'm just I hope that we don't take
24:03
Speaker 1: a step backwards for folks that are victimized behind closed doors.
24:09
Speaker 1: And I don't say that from a gender end, whether
24:11
Speaker 1: it's for him, I just say anyone, because of the
24:15
Speaker 1: damage that it does, you know, daily around this country
24:20
Speaker 1: to many, many, many many people. You know what You're
24:24
Speaker 1: very right, John Guard, John Guard, Chief deb at Pitt
24:28
Speaker 1: County Sheriff's office in Greenville. In this case, we have
24:34
Speaker 1: Amber heard self proclaiming that she is a crime victim. Now,
24:42
Speaker 1: whether you believe her or not, from this point on,
24:47
Speaker 1: you're going to have juries being argued. Defense attorney's arguing
24:52
Speaker 1: two juries. Ah, she's lying, She's pulling an Amber. That's
24:58
Speaker 1: what's going to happen from this point forward. There's really
25:04
Speaker 1: no way around it. Whether you believe her or don't
25:08
Speaker 1: believe her. The reality is the jury sided with depth
25:13
Speaker 1: and from this point forward, this is going to be
25:17
Speaker 1: a common defense and domestic cases, domestic meetings. And not
25:23
Speaker 1: only did I prosecute them, I volunteered at the Battered
25:27
Speaker 1: Women's Center at night for nine years. Domestic abuse violence
25:32
Speaker 1: is real and very often, unlike Amber heard, these women
25:39
Speaker 1: and they are typically women don't have the resources, the money,
25:43
Speaker 1: the wherewithal, the strength, the connections to leave the home.
25:49
Speaker 1: Very often they're there until they're killed. Domestic homicide, and
25:55
Speaker 1: it's escalating, by the way, it's not getting any better.
25:58
Speaker 1: It's actually escalating. Very often mothers feel they don't have
26:03
Speaker 1: the money to leave, they don't have a way to
26:05
Speaker 1: support their children, they don't want to break up the home.
26:08
Speaker 1: It's being reported more fortunately today, it probably always existed
26:14
Speaker 1: at one level or another. And as to the actual
26:18
Speaker 1: case involving herd and depth or two important points that
26:23
Speaker 1: need to be brought forward. One is that the crucible
26:28
Speaker 1: of cross examinations critical to justice in the United States.
26:32
Speaker 1: And when you put witnesses on the stand and list
26:35
Speaker 1: the jury gets to listen to what they have to say,
26:37
Speaker 1: they can make an informed decision. Add to the credibility
26:41
Speaker 1: both the defense witnesses and prosecution witnesses. And more than that,
26:46
Speaker 1: what Ambers got wrong is the fact that the jurors
26:49
Speaker 1: weren't allowed to listen to social media, weren't affected by it,
26:53
Speaker 1: And that's not true for the participants in the case.
26:56
Speaker 1: They could listen to all the social media they wanted to,
27:00
Speaker 1: and perhaps they know things more than the jurors did.
27:04
Speaker 1: But the jurors looked at the testimony day, we looked
27:06
Speaker 1: at the witnesses, and they made an informed decision. And
27:10
Speaker 1: that crucible of cross examinations critical to proper justice in
27:15
Speaker 1: American I think you would agree, is this, Dell Carson? Yes,
27:19
Speaker 1: the cross examination was relentless in this case on both sides.
27:25
Speaker 1: So what now take Listen to our friends at ETR
27:28
Speaker 1: cut p P. What's her next move? She's right, well,
27:31
Speaker 1: her next move is appeal. Amber Heard's lawyer says she's
27:34
Speaker 1: ready to fight back. Following Johnny Depp's victory in his
27:38
Speaker 1: defamation trial against her, Elaine Bredhoff told CBS Mornings that
27:43
Speaker 1: Hurd has plans to appeal after the jury decided the
27:46
Speaker 1: actor was in fact defamed by her, awarding him fifteen
27:50
Speaker 1: million dollars in both punitive and compensatory damages. And one
27:55
Speaker 1: of the first things that she said when she came
27:57
Speaker 1: back from the verdict when we went into the conference
28:00
Speaker 1: from was I am so sorry to all these women
28:04
Speaker 1: that yes, she felt like she had let down all
28:09
Speaker 1: of these women. It's a sentiment, the actress echoed following
28:12
Speaker 1: the verdict in a statement she posted on Instagram, calling
28:15
Speaker 1: out her disappointment and feeling heartbroken. Quote, the mountain of
28:20
Speaker 1: evidence still was not enough to stand up to the
28:23
Speaker 1: disproportionate power, influence and sway of my ex husband. I'm
28:28
Speaker 1: even more disappointed with what this verdict means for other women.
28:32
Speaker 1: It is a setback. It sets back the clock to
28:35
Speaker 1: a time when a woman who spoke up and spoke
28:37
Speaker 1: out could be publicly shamed and humiliated, you know, to you.
28:42
Speaker 1: Charlie Langston, a female editor at dailymail dot Com, I
28:46
Speaker 1: understand that amberhard was just spot at taking a private
28:50
Speaker 1: plane to Teterborough and then ending up at a ritzy
28:55
Speaker 1: Hampton's restaurant. She was She was pictured getting on a
28:58
Speaker 1: private jet in DC, and we believe that this is
29:02
Speaker 1: the flight that she took to New York in order
29:05
Speaker 1: to film her Today's Show interviews. So it remains to
29:08
Speaker 1: be seen who paid for the private jet. But I
29:11
Speaker 1: will say, if you've got your lawyer going on TV
29:15
Speaker 1: telling the world that you are incapable of paying the
29:19
Speaker 1: eight point three five million dollar kind of damages settlement
29:23
Speaker 1: that you are being told to give your ex husband,
29:26
Speaker 1: getting up on a private plane while toting a designer
29:29
Speaker 1: handbag is not exactly a great message to be sending
29:32
Speaker 1: to the world. Yes, Susan Constantine, that's not a good visual. No,
29:36
Speaker 1: it's not a good visual. And you know, first impressions
29:39
Speaker 1: and last impressions are super important. So people are judging
29:43
Speaker 1: you based on who demeanor your dress, how you conducting
29:46
Speaker 1: your life, and we assess them and we then profile them,
29:49
Speaker 1: and that's just the way it is. The way they
29:51
Speaker 1: Alloway's been is never going to change time stories with
30:06
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, you know of when we look back at
30:14
Speaker 1: the trial and we see what's going forward. Amber Heard
30:18
Speaker 1: says she is going to appeal. What would the grounds
30:22
Speaker 1: be to you, Del Carson, high profile lawyer joining out
30:26
Speaker 1: of Jacksonville. What could the grounds be? Well, it would
30:28
Speaker 1: have to be some error by the court in admitting
30:31
Speaker 1: some evidence that was in properly admitted or something like that,
30:36
Speaker 1: or testimony that came out during the course the trial.
30:39
Speaker 1: There was subject of motion and lemony, in other words,
30:42
Speaker 1: the discussion between the two sides that certain testimony should
30:46
Speaker 1: not come in. But the buy and large problem for
30:50
Speaker 1: her is that she has to put up a bond
30:52
Speaker 1: for the amount of money that she's due to Odell,
30:56
Speaker 1: And I don't know that that's possible where she would
30:58
Speaker 1: come up with the ten million dollars exactly. I'm wanted
31:01
Speaker 1: to take a listen again to our friends, Savannah Gothrighte
31:04
Speaker 1: NBC Today speaking to Amber Heard. Now you can hear
31:08
Speaker 1: this on the Today Show Tuesday and Wednesday, and on
31:11
Speaker 1: Dateline NBC on Friday night. Take a listen to our
31:15
Speaker 1: cut F F and d D in the closing arguments,
31:20
Speaker 1: the depth lawyer said called your testimony the performance of
31:23
Speaker 1: a lifetime and said you were acting. What do you
31:27
Speaker 1: say to that, says the lawyer for the man who
31:33
Speaker 1: convinced the world he had scissors for fingers. I'm the performer.
31:40
Speaker 1: I had listened to weeks of testimony insinuating that. We're
31:46
Speaker 1: saying quite directly that you know I'm a terrible actress.
31:53
Speaker 1: So I'm a bit confused how I could be both.
31:57
Speaker 1: I never had to instigate it. I responded to it.
32:00
Speaker 1: When you're living in violence and it becomes it becomes normal,
32:05
Speaker 1: as I testified to you have to adapt. You say
32:09
Speaker 1: you were responding, but there is evidence. There are tapes
32:13
Speaker 1: in which you acknowledge hitting. There are tapes in which
32:16
Speaker 1: you say I started the fight. I know much has
32:20
Speaker 1: been made of these audio tapes. They were first leaked
32:25
Speaker 1: online after being edited. What you would hear in those
32:29
Speaker 1: clips are not evidence of what was happening. It was
32:32
Speaker 1: evidence of a negotiation of how to talk about that
32:35
Speaker 1: with your abuser. Okay, what is she saying, Charlie Lankston
32:40
Speaker 1: that the tapes were leaked and edited. She's essentially saying
32:44
Speaker 1: that only small portions of three hour long audio tapes
32:49
Speaker 1: were a leaked online prior to the trial and then
32:53
Speaker 1: ed in the trial, and Savannah rightly so questioned why
32:58
Speaker 1: Amber's lawyers couldn't have submitted all three hours of these
33:02
Speaker 1: audio tapes. Why on us if three hours of audio
33:06
Speaker 1: recordings exist that will have presumably helped Amber's case, why
33:11
Speaker 1: on us couldn't her lawyers have submitted those as evidence,
33:15
Speaker 1: to which Ambo was only able to reply. While I'm
33:18
Speaker 1: not a lawyer, del Carson joining us out of Jacksonville Dell,
33:23
Speaker 1: that's a fundamental rule of evidence. You are not to
33:27
Speaker 1: allow in evidence that is only a portion of a
33:31
Speaker 1: fuller transcript or video or document. That is a fundamental
33:37
Speaker 1: rule of evidence. So I believe that if this is
33:42
Speaker 1: true what she's saying, that it should have been admitted
33:46
Speaker 1: into evidence if it existed, well, if the court allowed
33:50
Speaker 1: it improperly to appear in front of the jors, then
33:53
Speaker 1: that is the basis for a rehearing on the matter
33:58
Speaker 1: in its entire well, if it is presented to the court.
34:01
Speaker 1: What we're saying, guys, is that I'm not saying that
34:05
Speaker 1: Depth had to play the whole three hours, but the
34:08
Speaker 1: whole three hours had to be admitted for the jury consideration.
34:12
Speaker 1: It's not forcing either side to play the full three hours,
34:16
Speaker 1: but you can't later say, oh, that was edited. The
34:20
Speaker 1: jury didn't see the whole thing. That's precisely why a
34:24
Speaker 1: full document or a full tape must be admitted into evidence,
34:28
Speaker 1: not just a portion you want somebody to see, as
34:31
Speaker 1: if the rest doesn't exist. John Guard joining me, Chief
34:34
Speaker 1: Deputy pitt County Sheriff's Office. Have you ever had a
34:36
Speaker 1: case you specialize in domestic violence. Have you ever had
34:39
Speaker 1: a case where the violence and the arguments were actually
34:43
Speaker 1: caught on tape and on video. Yes, we have, and
34:46
Speaker 1: just going back to that topic and again, you know,
34:49
Speaker 1: living in the criminal courts world for so many years,
34:53
Speaker 1: I mean that's why we have discovery. I mean, if
34:55
Speaker 1: we have interviews or interrogations that are two, three fo
35:00
Speaker 1: or six hours long, we're going to make sure that
35:04
Speaker 1: defense counsel on the other side has an opportunity to
35:09
Speaker 1: review all of that. I mean, you know, the Lady
35:12
Speaker 1: of Justice is blind and all information needs to come
35:16
Speaker 1: out so both sides can develop their trial plan, you know,
35:22
Speaker 1: to seek justice and whatever justice means to them. To
35:25
Speaker 1: Charlie Lengths to joining us from delimail dot com. Everybody
35:29
Speaker 1: jump in on this at this point. To me, the
35:34
Speaker 1: best thing Hurd could do would be stop talking number
35:38
Speaker 1: one and pay off those charitable donations and let it
35:42
Speaker 1: be known that she fulfilled a promise. I absolutely agree
35:46
Speaker 1: with him. Otherwise, if she absolutely has to talk about it,
35:51
Speaker 1: a don't repeat the same mistake which she just got
35:55
Speaker 1: sued over, But say, you know what, I told the truth.
35:59
Speaker 1: The jury chose not to believe me. I lost, and
36:03
Speaker 1: now I'm picking up my career and focusing on my
36:06
Speaker 1: daughter and trying to move forward. I think that's what
36:10
Speaker 1: I would do if I had to say anything at all.
36:12
Speaker 1: What about it? Charlie, Absolutely, I think she is digging
36:16
Speaker 1: herself a hole by continuing to double down and repeat
36:20
Speaker 1: these claims that she's already been sued over. She's already
36:24
Speaker 1: been found guilty of defamation, she's already been ordered to
36:27
Speaker 1: pay an enormous lump sum to Johnny Depp. If she
36:31
Speaker 1: really can't pay that sum, and if she is really
36:34
Speaker 1: planning to appeal, the best thing for her would be
36:38
Speaker 1: to say, the jury ruled as it saw fit, I
36:41
Speaker 1: stand by my testimony, and I will now leave it
36:44
Speaker 1: in the hands of my lawyers to decide whether or
36:47
Speaker 1: not we can move forward with an appeal, and then
36:50
Speaker 1: she makes the charitable donations that she said she had
36:53
Speaker 1: already made. She focuses on her personal life with her child,
36:57
Speaker 1: and we wait to see how it will forward in
37:01
Speaker 1: a courtroom. But she is now taking this out of
37:04
Speaker 1: the hands of lawyers and jurors and judges and placing herself,
37:09
Speaker 1: quite frankly, in front of a firing line. She's already
37:12
Speaker 1: said that she's staying in hate and vitriol in the
37:15
Speaker 1: court of public opinion, and I don't think she's doing
37:18
Speaker 1: herself any favors by continuing to throw herself to the wolf. Susan,
37:22
Speaker 1: I agree with what Charlie Lankson said, but I think
37:25
Speaker 1: I would be even more blunt. I would say I
37:28
Speaker 1: told the truth, the jury didn't believe me. I lost.
37:33
Speaker 1: I'm going to try to find the money to pay
37:35
Speaker 1: Johnny Depp, and I'm going to live up to what
37:37
Speaker 1: I owe the charities. I'm going to take care of
37:40
Speaker 1: my daughter and try to get work exactly. I think
37:44
Speaker 1: then then she's start to regain people's trust again. I
37:48
Speaker 1: think that this is a time for her to stay
37:51
Speaker 1: away from the media and to self reflect, heal and
37:55
Speaker 1: start to work on reinventing herself and becoming healthier. And
37:59
Speaker 1: would you come about. She's going to come back stronger
38:02
Speaker 1: than she ever was. And I think the world in
38:03
Speaker 1: itself are very forgiving of people. But if she doesn't
38:07
Speaker 1: own it, then people will never will. If she continues
38:10
Speaker 1: to throw daggers, people will continue to throw daggers back
38:14
Speaker 1: at her. But how could she be representing all women
38:18
Speaker 1: and saying that it's a setback for a woman. It's
38:21
Speaker 1: just ludicrous and a wrong to be shown up on
38:24
Speaker 1: a private plane, to be eating in fancy restaurant, to
38:27
Speaker 1: be living this lifestyle that she's flaunting and saying that
38:31
Speaker 1: this is a setback, and she represents all women, all women,
38:36
Speaker 1: she should be lying low. I mean, I think you
38:39
Speaker 1: have to admit And I remember, I know we all
38:42
Speaker 1: remember when when Owner ride Or shoplifted right, and she
38:45
Speaker 1: was blacklisted for shoplifting for Pete's sake. I mean, you
38:48
Speaker 1: got Roman Polanski, he right to a little girl in
38:50
Speaker 1: a hot tub, and Hollywood's begging Ram to come back. Really, anyway,
38:55
Speaker 1: I always thought that should never have gone to trial.
38:58
Speaker 1: She should have plied guilty and said, look, I have
39:00
Speaker 1: a problem. I did this thing, and I don't want
39:03
Speaker 1: to be a bad role model for young girls that
39:05
Speaker 1: watch my movies. I'm gonna start over, and I hope
39:09
Speaker 1: you can forgive me and help me do a better job.
39:13
Speaker 1: You know, you got to own it. You gotta admit
39:16
Speaker 1: to whatever happened and try to move forward, not keep
39:20
Speaker 1: churning over the same lies that the jury came back
39:25
Speaker 1: with their verdict because the social media that the tapes
39:28
Speaker 1: were edited. Just move forward and do something good. And
39:32
Speaker 1: if you keep doing that, that's the only way you'll
39:36
Speaker 1: have a shot. Hey, that ten million dollar verdict ain't
39:40
Speaker 1: gonna pay itself. We wait as justice unfalse. Goodbye friend,