Transcript

Tranual Labor · Like a Virgin

0:03
Speaker 1: Hogs summer Hocus Hocus have a kick ass summer. Duh.
0:11
Speaker 1: Because I'm a bad girl, because we're the bad kids,
0:15
Speaker 1: and she's sheen Ami no mate, no my name yo? No?
0:25
Speaker 1: What is your child trauma? I am a Your life's
0:33
Speaker 1: going down before round.
0:45
Speaker 2: Welcome to Like a Virgin, the show where we give
0:48
Speaker 2: yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm Rose DomU and I'm
0:52
Speaker 2: Fran Toronto.
0:53
Speaker 1: And.
0:55
Speaker 2: Today the evil will be defeated and Pride Month will
0:59
Speaker 2: be over.
1:00
Speaker 1: That's not technically true, Rose, I mean.
1:03
Speaker 2: Today is in the day that this episode comes out, Oh,
1:06
Speaker 2: the last the last day of June.
1:07
Speaker 1: You know, it's still not true. Rose. Pride is all
1:09
Speaker 1: year round. The thing about pride be for yourself, babes.
1:12
Speaker 1: Pride wasn't even Pride wasn't even in June for me.
1:16
Speaker 1: This year, pride is a state of minds. And pride
1:20
Speaker 1: happens in the UK in July, it happens in it
1:24
Speaker 1: you know, in Atlanta in October. Don't happens in New
1:28
Speaker 1: Orleans in September. Pride happens everywhere all the time because
1:35
Speaker 1: we are prideful all year round. And this year, in
1:38
Speaker 1: partnership with JP Morgan. And on that note, a word
1:45
Speaker 1: from our sponsor, Zappo's Shoes is the Beast.
1:49
Speaker 2: You shouldn't because because we probably do have an ad
1:53
Speaker 2: that's like that we just don't that we just don't
1:55
Speaker 2: know about.
1:56
Speaker 1: Okay, wait, dream Dream Pride sponsorship. Okay, they're buying out that.
2:00
Speaker 1: It's not just a spot, they're buying out like an advertorial. Okay,
2:04
Speaker 1: who is the brand we want? The Church of Scientology.
2:11
Speaker 1: You are only saying that because you want to suck
2:13
Speaker 1: Tom Cruise. Well, yeah, duh. My dream partnership would probably
2:21
Speaker 1: be like, what's something that I legitimately need, like emodium?
2:25
Speaker 1: Oh don't know, you know what I would love because
2:28
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about Gaga right now, if I might as
2:32
Speaker 1: well go big Pharma. I want my Pride partnership for
2:36
Speaker 1: this podcast to be Titlenal extra strength rapid release gels. Okay,
2:40
Speaker 1: this is not every painkiller. This is not every woman. Okay,
2:46
Speaker 1: not ibuprofen. She is an amazing pain reliever that does
2:50
Speaker 1: not in your blood. It acts immediately, and it's very potent,
2:54
Speaker 1: and it's like unlike other painkillers. This I'm literally doing
2:59
Speaker 1: an advertiying. Okay, let's let's move it a lot. Let's
3:04
Speaker 1: move it a pride. I was your pride friend. My
3:07
Speaker 1: pride was filled with the tite little extra strength rapid
3:10
Speaker 1: release jels because I was hungover, stopped doing spot No seriously,
3:17
Speaker 1: I was so drunk and did a lot of drugs
3:19
Speaker 1: and smoked a lot of weed. And that is pride
3:22
Speaker 1: to me. As you know, I did pretty much the
3:25
Speaker 1: opposite of you, which is go to club, another club,
3:28
Speaker 1: another club, bus train, no sleep, no sleep. I have
3:33
Speaker 1: been going to parties all month, not a ton of
3:35
Speaker 1: sponsored parties, which I love, like not even like only
3:39
Speaker 1: like one fashion party, like only really going to like
3:42
Speaker 1: people's convene gatherings, drag events, things that are like self
3:46
Speaker 1: produced or like community produced. I think is like where
3:49
Speaker 1: we should be putting our energy and dollars. Yes, but
3:54
Speaker 1: I also went to body Hack, an amazing trans party
3:59
Speaker 1: that my friend reoed with her organizing collective, and then
4:02
Speaker 1: Poppy Juice after that, and then the next day I
4:05
Speaker 1: went to Dike March, and then I went to Gush,
4:09
Speaker 1: which my friend Angie helps put on. And it's been
4:11
Speaker 1: a queer ass weekend. And then yesterday I went to
4:14
Speaker 1: your least favorite place on the planet and my favorite
4:16
Speaker 1: place on the planet Jacob eas Beach. I will never
4:22
Speaker 1: go there again. I love that beach. Anyways, what did
4:27
Speaker 1: you do this weekend? Rose? So?
4:29
Speaker 2: I well, Thursday, I kicked off Pride by doing a
4:34
Speaker 2: corporate panel with friend of the podcast Charlene.
4:38
Speaker 1: That actually went well. It was very chill.
4:43
Speaker 2: And then Friday, my friend and I went out of
4:46
Speaker 2: town for the weekend to Wyndham, New York, which is
4:50
Speaker 2: in the Catskills.
4:52
Speaker 1: Windham that sounds very Bridgerton. It's a very.
4:56
Speaker 2: It was a very like picturesque little town. And then
5:00
Speaker 2: we were in a cabin that was like faux remote,
5:06
Speaker 2: you know, like it was pretty close to everything, but
5:09
Speaker 2: it looked like very scenic around it. The house was,
5:14
Speaker 2: you know, it had kind of all of the typical
5:16
Speaker 2: airbnb problems. The beds were not very comfortable. It was
5:20
Speaker 2: super hot in it when we got in there, and
5:22
Speaker 2: I had to put the ac in myself.
5:25
Speaker 1: Which was not great. We are going to be talking
5:28
Speaker 1: about and just like that on the Patreon. I was
5:30
Speaker 1: just about to start talking about it now, and then
5:32
Speaker 1: I caught myself and I said, wait a second, the
5:34
Speaker 1: conversation is Paywald.
5:37
Speaker 2: Yes, we have a lot to say though, I do
5:40
Speaker 2: have a lot to say about and just like that,
5:41
Speaker 2: and we're not even we're not even going to give
5:43
Speaker 2: you top level thoughts. If you want a glimpse of taste,
5:46
Speaker 2: a taste of the end, just like that combo, you
5:51
Speaker 2: can hear it. But if you want our full thoughts,
5:55
Speaker 2: and I think this will probably be how we get
5:58
Speaker 2: through the season of end just like that, because the
6:00
Speaker 2: episodes come out Thursday, so just like timing wise, it
6:04
Speaker 2: doesn't really make sense for us to talk about the
6:06
Speaker 2: previous week's episode.
6:07
Speaker 1: So I believe that.
6:08
Speaker 2: And just like that, discussions will live on the Patreon,
6:13
Speaker 2: So go to patreon dot com, slash like a virgin
6:16
Speaker 2: and become a patron if you want to hear our
6:18
Speaker 2: thoughts about it.
6:20
Speaker 1: Gorge h literally so much. Okay, no other TV this weekend, right,
6:26
Speaker 1: I mean you were just reading on your little your
6:28
Speaker 1: little pride escape and your little pride escape hat.
6:32
Speaker 2: No, we actually did watch a couple episodes of Glamorous
6:37
Speaker 2: on Netflix and it seems fun.
6:40
Speaker 1: It's fun. Is it about like a editor and she
6:43
Speaker 1: like a mean editor lady and like a lowly assistant.
6:46
Speaker 1: That that is the problem with it.
6:49
Speaker 2: No, the problem is that Kim Katrall is basically playing
6:54
Speaker 2: Miranda Priestley in the Devorce praduc if she was nice?
6:58
Speaker 1: What? And that's boring? Why is she nice?
7:02
Speaker 2: I don't know. I wish I knew she is nice.
7:06
Speaker 2: She's a nice boss was a nice What is the conflict?
7:10
Speaker 2: The conflict seems to be that the main character is
7:17
Speaker 2: and he's not he in the show is not even
7:20
Speaker 2: non binary. What they're actually I'm about four episodes in
7:24
Speaker 2: there has been zero discussion of gender. No one's at
7:29
Speaker 2: any point like asked his pronouns, and like they're basically
7:33
Speaker 2: no person that's I guess that's fine, And like at
7:36
Speaker 2: one point they do make reference to being a femme
7:42
Speaker 2: gay guy. But for a show that's like the headline
7:46
Speaker 2: is about a boy who wears makeup, it is seems
7:50
Speaker 2: to be remarkably uninterested in the you know, gender and
7:54
Speaker 2: identity implications of that.
7:56
Speaker 1: Which is can I guess a choice? I I really
7:59
Speaker 1: shouldn't say any because I have not watched a single
8:01
Speaker 1: second of the show, not even the trailer, so I
8:03
Speaker 1: don't even know what it's about totally. But from what
8:05
Speaker 1: you're describing, I will say it is awesome to have
8:09
Speaker 1: any sort of circumstance where you know a transactor is
8:12
Speaker 1: playing a cisgender role. I actually don't even know if
8:14
Speaker 1: miss Benny identifies as trans, but like she's definitely giving
8:18
Speaker 1: on binary and I think that's dope. I am shocked
8:23
Speaker 1: though that Netflix would not have would not lean into
8:26
Speaker 1: that conversation, you know, in the kind of writing way.
8:30
Speaker 1: But maybe that's a great thing. And I don't know
8:32
Speaker 1: how that what this show feels like. But like if
8:34
Speaker 1: someone's like visibly gender non conforming, I don't really need
8:38
Speaker 1: to have a convert I don't need like there to
8:40
Speaker 1: be a scene that's like a conversation about it. But
8:43
Speaker 1: in a real life it would come up naturally in
8:47
Speaker 1: a little in between moments. There are ways to crack
8:49
Speaker 1: jokes about it and reference it. Honestly, sort of this
8:52
Speaker 1: does this really well, sort of an HBO the kind
8:55
Speaker 1: of trans South Asian Daria that I was telling you about.
9:00
Speaker 1: The jokes are very like off the cuff gender jokes
9:02
Speaker 1: that like fit in between the actual plot and meat
9:06
Speaker 1: of the show. Anyways, Yeah, I mean I will watch it.
9:09
Speaker 1: I'm gonna it is a fun like head empty trash
9:15
Speaker 1: TV watch, and that is what I will say about it. Oh, well,
9:20
Speaker 1: is that I do? I do? I hear? Do I
9:23
Speaker 1: hear an episode coming up? What is that? I what
9:28
Speaker 1: are you holding? I'm holding a large shell to my ear. Yeah,
9:32
Speaker 1: and I think I'm getting that. We are talking about
9:36
Speaker 1: summer camp today.
9:37
Speaker 2: Yes, we are talking about camp, not the not the
9:41
Speaker 2: met Gala theme, but place, the actual place that you go. Yes, Ryan,
10:12
Speaker 2: did you spend a lot of time.
10:16
Speaker 1: At camp? Is that what you did in the summers
10:18
Speaker 1: when you were coming out Jesus Camp seven summers in
10:21
Speaker 1: a row. Baby, Oh my god, I didn't even think
10:24
Speaker 1: about that, the fact that you would have gone. I
10:27
Speaker 1: went to Jesus when we talked about the Jesus version
10:30
Speaker 1: of it. Yes, yes, yes, I loved. Okay, So what's
10:33
Speaker 1: your earliest memory of Jesus Camp. Well, okay, we had
10:38
Speaker 1: before Jesus Camp, like sleep away camp, like proper sleep
10:41
Speaker 1: away camp. We did have like a vacation Bible School,
10:44
Speaker 1: which is kind of like a day camp for todd
10:47
Speaker 1: for like, you know, babies, to like go and do
10:49
Speaker 1: activities and play play with like the other church kids
10:53
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. That I guess I kind of
10:57
Speaker 1: enjoyed because it was something to do during the day,
11:00
Speaker 1: and I liked my church friends, I think, but Jesus Camp,
11:05
Speaker 1: like where you go and you sleep there for like
11:08
Speaker 1: one or two or three weeks at a time, was
11:11
Speaker 1: very cult like. And obviously that you don't say, I mean,
11:15
Speaker 1: obviously it's because of Jesus, but also like, since we're
11:18
Speaker 1: talking about it broadly, like summer camp does like kind
11:21
Speaker 1: of function like a cult sometimes, Like you do kind
11:24
Speaker 1: of enter this summer camp brain space that is different
11:28
Speaker 1: from when you go back home, like it feels for
11:31
Speaker 1: a different life for sure.
11:33
Speaker 2: Well, you have your camp friends, you can sort of
11:36
Speaker 2: reinvent yourself at camp. But then but then once you're
11:40
Speaker 2: locked into a camp, then you are that person for
11:44
Speaker 2: the duration.
11:45
Speaker 1: Of your camp. Well, okay, what was your first summer camp?
11:47
Speaker 1: Did you have to did you ever reinvent yourself?
11:51
Speaker 2: So so, I you know, am part of a long
11:57
Speaker 2: lineage of Jews who believe in packing their children off
12:05
Speaker 2: to be taken care of by nineteen year olds from
12:09
Speaker 2: Australia and New Zealand basically as soon as they're old
12:12
Speaker 2: enough so that they can you know, like go on
12:17
Speaker 2: summer vacations to Europe or like do whatever. So you know,
12:21
Speaker 2: my mom and her brothers were sent off to a
12:25
Speaker 2: sleep Boy camp as soon as they were old enough,
12:29
Speaker 2: and I the same was done for my brother and I.
12:32
Speaker 2: You know, you got to get the kids out of
12:34
Speaker 2: the house during the summer and pay someone to take.
12:38
Speaker 1: And wait, sorry, how long were you away? So okay.
12:43
Speaker 2: I didn't start going to sleep Boy camp until I
12:47
Speaker 2: was eleven, maybe ten or eleven.
12:52
Speaker 1: You know.
12:53
Speaker 2: Up until then, I would go to day camp I
12:57
Speaker 2: went to. It was always sort of temple adjacent to
13:03
Speaker 2: like a camp that was run out of the synagogue
13:07
Speaker 2: that we went to, and then I went to a
13:11
Speaker 2: theater camp that was also still a day camp. Then
13:13
Speaker 2: there was one summer where we went to a camp
13:15
Speaker 2: where you slept there during the week but you went
13:19
Speaker 2: home on the weekends. And it was in the city
13:20
Speaker 2: that I lived in, So that was sort of like
13:22
Speaker 2: training wheels for Sleepway Camp. And then I went to
13:27
Speaker 2: Sleepway Camp for the first time. I believe the summer
13:30
Speaker 2: I was ten or eleven and my younger brother was
13:33
Speaker 2: two years younger than me. We both went and that
13:36
Speaker 2: was like also kind of training wheels for Sleepway Camp
13:39
Speaker 2: because I think it was only a week or two long.
13:43
Speaker 2: I don't remember much about that camp experience, except that
13:46
Speaker 2: on the way back, I was flying back, because you know,
13:48
Speaker 2: these camps are always somewhere in the Northeast. I think
13:51
Speaker 2: this one was in Main And on the flight back,
13:55
Speaker 2: for some reason, I got bumped up to first class,
13:58
Speaker 2: so I was like ten or you're my oh god,
14:01
Speaker 2: flying flying alone.
14:02
Speaker 1: In first oil rotten in real time, getting spoiled rotten.
14:06
Speaker 1: But I got sick from the food or something.
14:12
Speaker 2: And this is a very this is a very vivid,
14:16
Speaker 2: like core foundational building blocking memory for me.
14:21
Speaker 1: So I got sick from the plane. I do remember
14:25
Speaker 1: this like this.
14:26
Speaker 2: The flight attendants were all very into me because it
14:29
Speaker 2: was like such a novelty, this like kid alone in
14:32
Speaker 2: first class. I'm sure I was like super faggy. And
14:35
Speaker 2: then when I got home, it was the summer that
14:39
Speaker 2: Harry Potter and The Chamber of Secrets came out, and
14:43
Speaker 2: I had begged my parents to get it for me,
14:47
Speaker 2: And when I got home, the book was waiting for
14:50
Speaker 2: me on my bed, and all I wanted to do
14:53
Speaker 2: was stay up all night and read it. But I
14:55
Speaker 2: was deliriously ill from whatever had consumed on the plane,
15:00
Speaker 2: so I slept for a full twenty four hours when
15:04
Speaker 2: I got home and I came downstairs, you know, to
15:08
Speaker 2: like for breakfast or whatever. When I finally was sick,
15:11
Speaker 2: and my family was like, I can't believe what you
15:15
Speaker 2: did last night. And I was like, what are you
15:17
Speaker 2: talking about? They were like, you came downstairs. And so
15:21
Speaker 2: this was the nineties, and you know, nineties were a
15:23
Speaker 2: very water cooler culture, and we had a water cooler
15:27
Speaker 2: in the kitchen.
15:28
Speaker 1: You know that you with like this big water cooler
15:30
Speaker 1: water for a water cooler culture in your own home
15:33
Speaker 1: kitchen got over, yes, And they said that during the night,
15:38
Speaker 1: while they were all sitting around having dinner, I had
15:41
Speaker 1: come downstairs, walked up to the water cooler, pissed in
15:47
Speaker 1: it as if it were a urinal, without saying a word,
15:51
Speaker 1: and then gone back upstairs and gone back to sleep.
15:54
Speaker 1: You were wait, were you sleepwalking? I was sleepwalking? I don't.
15:58
Speaker 1: I haven't known memory of this. Well, how could you
16:01
Speaker 1: so accurately piss into a water cooler in your sleep?
16:06
Speaker 1: That's not possible. You were possessed. I was possessed by
16:12
Speaker 1: I was much like much like Ginny Weasley and Harry
16:15
Speaker 1: Potter and the Chamber of secrets. God, God, that's so weird. Rose,
16:20
Speaker 1: you should be more so by that story. I know
16:24
Speaker 1: it was. It's very that has it's it is giving hereditary,
16:30
Speaker 1: and it's something that has haunted me throughout my entire life,
16:34
Speaker 1: and like growing up, my my mom and my stepdad
16:38
Speaker 1: and my brother would always joke about it, and I'd
16:41
Speaker 1: get really pissed off, like because it was embarrassing because
16:45
Speaker 1: I didn't remember it and it I was humiliated. So
16:49
Speaker 1: that to me is like the beginning of my summer
16:53
Speaker 1: camp journey and in many ways makes a lot of
16:56
Speaker 1: sense considering some of the experiences I've had at variously. Question, So,
17:01
Speaker 1: since you're sharing embarrassing stories, I will concede the fact
17:05
Speaker 1: that I was a bed wetter probably until I was
17:11
Speaker 1: almost like tennish. But I don't know. I don't think
17:15
Speaker 1: I've ever pissed my pants at camp, like to my recollection,
17:19
Speaker 1: I feel like I would viscerally remember that. But I
17:22
Speaker 1: definitely had that fear every time I was in a
17:25
Speaker 1: sort of slumber party situation. But honestly, my parents didn't
17:28
Speaker 1: really let me do sleepovers because you know, parents like those.
17:32
Speaker 1: I think there's a hard and fast rule with like
17:35
Speaker 1: more conservative parents are more like issy parents that just
17:38
Speaker 1: like they just don't do sleepovers, which is like bonkers
17:41
Speaker 1: to me. But I will tell you that my version
17:45
Speaker 1: of that story is I got pink I at Jesus Camp.
17:50
Speaker 1: I think my first or second year and pinky Okay,
17:53
Speaker 1: when you're at summer camp, first things, First, you got crushes. Okay,
17:57
Speaker 1: you're telling everyone you got crushes on the girls. I
18:00
Speaker 1: personally secretly have crushes on the boys. You are surrounded
18:03
Speaker 1: by puberty. You're surrounded by people that are more puba yes, yes, pubes,
18:08
Speaker 1: people that are more pubescent than you like, and you
18:11
Speaker 1: feel insecure about like who's grown and who's not. You
18:13
Speaker 1: feel insecure about who's cool and who's not, Like what
18:16
Speaker 1: movies they've seen that you've never heard of? Like I
18:19
Speaker 1: had so much insecurity at camp because you're coalescing with
18:22
Speaker 1: people that like aren't at your school, completely outside of
18:24
Speaker 1: your you know wherewithal So when I got pink eye
18:29
Speaker 1: and became this untouchable loser and everyone knew it, I
18:33
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, could I have a more
18:36
Speaker 1: worse experience here at Jesus Camp. Everyone was like very
18:40
Speaker 1: gracious about it, Like no one really made fun of
18:42
Speaker 1: it because you know, everyone loved Jesus, but like, it
18:45
Speaker 1: was still nasty and I do have like it. It
18:49
Speaker 1: is singed in my memory as an unpleasant camp experience,
18:53
Speaker 1: but I loved summer camp. Loved I also loved summer camp.
18:57
Speaker 1: I went to a camp that was okay. So there's
18:59
Speaker 1: a a very well known theater camp called French Woods.
19:03
Speaker 1: That's what the movie Camp is based off of, which
19:06
Speaker 1: is one of my favorite films Anna Kendrick, her best work,
19:10
Speaker 1: She Is Fucked, I'm Ready, and the Goddamn Show Must Gone.
19:13
Speaker 1: But we were sort of like a sister camp to
19:15
Speaker 1: French Woods. So it was either sports or the arts,
19:20
Speaker 1: which I guess are still kind of the only camp activity.
19:22
Speaker 1: So it's not like we were special. But I was
19:25
Speaker 1: the only quote unquote boy who was like into theater
19:29
Speaker 1: only why not the only one, but I was the
19:33
Speaker 1: most into theater, so I got the lee and rolls
19:35
Speaker 1: in all that. I know that I knew that.
19:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that was a big part of my camp experience.
19:40
Speaker 2: But also I have another embarrassing story that has something
19:44
Speaker 2: to do with evacuating your body. So I was I
19:51
Speaker 2: have always been very pe shy when I used to
19:55
Speaker 2: use bathrooms that had urinals in them.
19:57
Speaker 1: I never pissed on someone during sex because you're p right, No,
20:01
Speaker 1: I like to be pressed on. I don't like. I
20:03
Speaker 1: still get very p shy.
20:06
Speaker 2: So you know, back when I used to use bathrooms
20:08
Speaker 2: i had urinals, I like hated being at a urinal
20:11
Speaker 2: because I'm very p shy. I also in my childhood
20:14
Speaker 2: was very poop shy and I did not want to
20:16
Speaker 2: poop in public. So when I got to see you
20:18
Speaker 2: were one of those, I didn't seven day.
20:22
Speaker 1: I knew I didn't shy. I didn't ship for a
20:26
Speaker 1: full for a full week. When I went to camp
20:29
Speaker 1: and I had to be sent I had to be
20:31
Speaker 1: sent to the click. I had to be sent to
20:34
Speaker 1: the clinic because I had like the worst just stomach
20:37
Speaker 1: ache ever. And the nurse took one look at me.
20:41
Speaker 1: I was like, when was the last night? And I
20:43
Speaker 1: was like, I was like at my grandma's house before
20:46
Speaker 1: we got here, and she was like, she was like,
20:49
Speaker 1: go in there and take a ship.
20:51
Speaker 2: And I was like, can you like puun some music
20:54
Speaker 2: or something or like walk go out in the ride,
20:57
Speaker 2: and she did it did work.
20:59
Speaker 1: I shot and I felt so much better and that
21:05
Speaker 1: was the first step in me becoming comfortable with shitting
21:08
Speaker 1: in public. In public such a funny and now I
21:13
Speaker 1: sha all the time everywhere. I mean, I still don't
21:19
Speaker 1: love to ship in like a crowded but you know
21:24
Speaker 1: when you're in an audience, but I do it because
21:26
Speaker 1: you know, it's what the people want when.
21:29
Speaker 2: You're in a bunk with especially with teenage boys. Like
21:34
Speaker 2: that's the thing at my my bunk at Sleepway Camp.
21:37
Speaker 2: So it was like it wasn't so you know, you're
21:39
Speaker 2: like grouped by bunk at camp, but our bunks were
21:42
Speaker 2: like interconnected, so it was like four different bunk groupings.
21:46
Speaker 2: Then we all shared one big bathroom in the middle,
21:49
Speaker 2: so there there was always someone around listening to me
21:52
Speaker 2: take a dumb and it made me very self conscious,
21:55
Speaker 2: but you know it did help, is that especially that
21:58
Speaker 2: first summer. The albums that went triple platinum and R
22:03
Speaker 2: Bunk were Eminem's debut album That's Extremely Summer and Yes
22:10
Speaker 2: and the south Park movie soundtrack, which I honestly I
22:16
Speaker 2: love the south Park movie south Park, bigger, longer and
22:18
Speaker 2: uncut scenes, and I was I was sitting on that
22:22
Speaker 2: toilet singing blame Canada while I was trying to poop. No, okay,
22:25
Speaker 2: the South Park, the South Park of it all is
22:27
Speaker 2: emblematic of something that honestly, you know we're talking about
22:31
Speaker 2: right here in summer camp culture, which is that boys
22:34
Speaker 2: are disgusting.
22:36
Speaker 1: South Park is disgusting just cater to like gross little boys.
22:42
Speaker 1: And when you are at summer camp and you have
22:44
Speaker 1: to get used to, you know, pissed ship, pee, pooh, far,
22:47
Speaker 1: puke whatever, like, it's like they the kids they lean
22:53
Speaker 1: into that, get the boys lean into that, and so
22:55
Speaker 1: all of a sudden it's like he and pooh and
22:57
Speaker 1: fart and puke jokes, and it's like, no, like this
22:59
Speaker 1: is everyone's farting on each other, like you're spinning on people,
23:03
Speaker 1: like gendered memories like happening in those like toxically masculine
23:08
Speaker 1: spaces where I'm just like, I was like, this isn't
23:11
Speaker 1: me dog, Like I don't understand, I don't belong here.
23:14
Speaker 1: Get me out, not dog. Yeah, camp food also will
23:19
Speaker 1: will stop you up. We have to say it.
23:22
Speaker 2: Yes, there was one summer where I only ate jello
23:27
Speaker 2: from from the cafeteria, and I mean I was having
23:32
Speaker 2: some very liquidy shits.
23:33
Speaker 1: It was.
23:34
Speaker 2: It also like blue, like I don't, I don't recall,
23:39
Speaker 2: but that was also the summer that I had my
23:40
Speaker 2: first girlfriend, whose name I believe was Christine Christine, And
23:46
Speaker 2: it was also the summer that I that It was
23:49
Speaker 2: also the summer that I sucked my first dude.
23:52
Speaker 1: Oh wow, two for one? Wait Christine? How long did
23:55
Speaker 1: that relate and ate pussy for the first time? Oh
23:58
Speaker 1: my god? Wait you did?
23:59
Speaker 2: I had all my first sexual experiences your most bisexual summer?
24:04
Speaker 2: How How long did Christine the summer I turned pretty
24:06
Speaker 2: How long did wait? Is that that's a movie, right,
24:09
Speaker 2: it's a TV show? And okay, what was how long
24:12
Speaker 2: did your relationship with Christine last? I believe it was
24:16
Speaker 2: fairly long by camp standards, so I'm gonna say like
24:19
Speaker 2: six EPs.
24:20
Speaker 1: Okay. I had a crush I think my second year
24:23
Speaker 1: at summer camp on a girl named Ashley, who I
24:26
Speaker 1: did really fall for and I tried. She lived in Michigan,
24:30
Speaker 1: but I my parents, our parents, respected parents, facilitated us
24:35
Speaker 1: meeting after camp, Like we met up in Michigan so
24:38
Speaker 1: we could go on this like chaperone date for like
24:43
Speaker 1: like me and my long distance like camp crush. Isn't
24:47
Speaker 1: that wild? Like, I don't know if I would ever
24:49
Speaker 1: do that. Seeing camp friends outside of camp isn't it
24:53
Speaker 1: was so it's wrong. It's like it's like honestly, like
24:56
Speaker 1: you know, like you're at in Order Forbid. It's like
24:59
Speaker 1: you're at an orgy and they turn on the fluorescent lighting.
25:01
Speaker 1: It's like, so not like you because you're.
25:05
Speaker 2: A different person at camp than you are in real life,
25:08
Speaker 2: and like the two are not supposed to miss. And
25:11
Speaker 2: if there's any time I've seen camp people outside of camp,
25:14
Speaker 2: and it's happened very rarely, it's felt so weird and wrong.
25:41
Speaker 2: Something that's very powerful about camp is that you never
25:45
Speaker 2: think about your parents, like or at least I didn't
25:47
Speaker 2: like parents being gone.
25:52
Speaker 1: I really just not me. I like, oh, okay, you
25:54
Speaker 1: missed mom and dad.
25:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, so at my So the proper Sleepway camp that
25:59
Speaker 2: I went to, you're not allowed to call home for
26:03
Speaker 2: the first seven days because they know that if you do,
26:08
Speaker 2: you'll be like I want to come home, So they
26:11
Speaker 2: force you to. They forced it to do no contact
26:14
Speaker 2: for the first seven days, and I was miserable. I
26:20
Speaker 2: wanted to get the fuck out of there. Also because
26:23
Speaker 2: so I went to camp in the Poconos in Pennsylvania,
26:27
Speaker 2: and you know, I grew up in Florida. So before camp,
26:30
Speaker 2: we would go up to Long Island and stay with
26:33
Speaker 2: my grandma and grandpa for like a week or two,
26:35
Speaker 2: and then we.
26:36
Speaker 1: Would go to camp. So by the time I got
26:37
Speaker 1: to camp, I had it had already been a long
26:39
Speaker 1: time since I had seen my mom, and I missed her.
26:43
Speaker 2: So much, and she was so happy I was gone,
26:46
Speaker 2: so I was. It was I was very sad. But
26:50
Speaker 2: and what also made me upset was that such a
26:53
Speaker 2: huge part of camp, especially when we were going to camp,
26:55
Speaker 2: you know in the late nineties early two thousands, was
26:59
Speaker 2: receiving mail and getting letters and care packages from your parents.
27:03
Speaker 2: And let me tell you one thing my mom was
27:05
Speaker 2: not doing during the summer when her kids were a
27:07
Speaker 2: camp was putting together care packages.
27:09
Speaker 1: She did not give a ship. Oh, my parents would
27:12
Speaker 1: do care packages, but that's because they missed me. And
27:15
Speaker 1: I what would you get in them? Yeah, blube com.
27:22
Speaker 1: You like, you're like write your mom. You're like, hey,
27:24
Speaker 1: next time, can you send me the one from from Yeah?
27:29
Speaker 1: You're like, next time, can you get the like artisanal poppers? I? Yeah, no, right,
27:36
Speaker 1: I feel I don't know. I would get like peanut
27:38
Speaker 1: em and m's I think I got. I would get
27:40
Speaker 1: like a book. You I think it was like stocked
27:43
Speaker 1: with stuff from the camp store. But oh the com
27:49
Speaker 1: or the commissary or like whatever it's called, the gummy candies,
27:52
Speaker 1: the chocolate bars. H commissary was it. And they also
27:55
Speaker 1: would merch that you could buy you did. I think
27:57
Speaker 1: they had like store credits that your parents. It's so merch.
28:00
Speaker 1: It's just like I don't think it's like they're selling.
28:04
Speaker 1: It's not like they're selling chromatica jobs. They were at
28:08
Speaker 1: my Jesus camp. But unlike you, I never got homesick, okay,
28:12
Speaker 1: hated going home and my parents picked me up. I
28:14
Speaker 1: was devastated. I did not want to leave. The only
28:17
Speaker 1: time I ever ever longed for home, which did not
28:20
Speaker 1: long for my parents long for home, was when I
28:22
Speaker 1: was at Boy quote unquote Scouts camp. Boy Scouts Camp was,
28:29
Speaker 1: which was how old were you I was? I don't know,
28:31
Speaker 1: like I was a tween maybe so I was probably
28:33
Speaker 1: like eleven or twelve, like you know, waking up in
28:37
Speaker 1: like a wet tent on the floor on a tarp
28:41
Speaker 1: and like stinky boys eating gross chili mac and being
28:45
Speaker 1: disgusting doing disgusting things like shitting at holes and drinking
28:49
Speaker 1: ketchup from the bottle like like because they're daring each other.
28:52
Speaker 2: Like way the things that boys do with food are
28:57
Speaker 2: so disgusting. Teenage, teenage and especially like pubescent boys are
29:05
Speaker 2: the literal worst people in the world.
29:06
Speaker 1: Yeah they are. Just having been one of them, I
29:09
Speaker 1: can say that when I like surrounded by those disgusting
29:12
Speaker 1: boys like I actually very vividly remember going to like
29:15
Speaker 1: some sort of ski camp and like Austin and Bradley
29:17
Speaker 1: called me a fagot and I was like, and I
29:19
Speaker 1: was like, shut up you like literally like drink barbecue sauce,
29:23
Speaker 1: like you're disgusting. Who's the real fag real fag here?
29:28
Speaker 1: But like in that moment, I wasn't like sick for home.
29:31
Speaker 1: I was like eleven years old, and I was like,
29:33
Speaker 1: I need to be in a hotel, like I cannot
29:36
Speaker 1: be here. I need to be comfortable.
29:38
Speaker 2: You're such a fucking taurus. Did you do Did you
29:42
Speaker 2: do color war at camp?
29:44
Speaker 1: Is that where you like would fling like you know,
29:46
Speaker 1: colored powder or like like paint balloons or something or
29:49
Speaker 1: what I remember? But color war colors like a race war.
29:55
Speaker 1: Phoebe said, the camp color wally, and there are you know,
29:59
Speaker 1: a hundred white, I mean, and three people of helm.
30:03
Speaker 1: Kind of it's like a it's like a week long
30:07
Speaker 1: camp wide thing where one half of camp is one color,
30:10
Speaker 1: one half of camp is another color.
30:12
Speaker 2: It's usually red and blue is the number of It
30:16
Speaker 2: is a race war, and there's a number of competitions
30:19
Speaker 2: throughout the week, and one color wins at the end.
30:23
Speaker 2: So the camp I went to was split up into
30:25
Speaker 2: sessions throughout the summer, so there was like the early session,
30:29
Speaker 2: the middle session, the late session. My brother and I
30:31
Speaker 2: always went there for the early sessions because school in
30:34
Speaker 2: Florida let out earlier, but then we went back to
30:37
Speaker 2: school earlier, so we went back to school like mid August.
30:41
Speaker 2: The kids who were in the Northeast didn't go back
30:42
Speaker 2: to school until after Labor Day, so they would always
30:46
Speaker 2: be there for the third session, and color War always
30:50
Speaker 2: happened during the third session, except for my last year
30:53
Speaker 2: at camp, which honestly was the year before my freshman
30:56
Speaker 2: year of high school. I was a little too old
30:58
Speaker 2: to be here there. I was a little too old
31:00
Speaker 2: for camp that year, and I really hated it. But
31:02
Speaker 2: that was the summer where all the suckingd fucking happened.
31:05
Speaker 2: But that was the summer that I got to do
31:06
Speaker 2: Color War and I was blue and my color lost.
31:10
Speaker 2: And when I tell you, I have never been more
31:13
Speaker 2: devastated in my life than when we lost Color War.
31:17
Speaker 2: And I didn't participate in a single activity. I am
31:21
Speaker 2: not an outdoor girl in that way. I'm not doing
31:24
Speaker 2: the three legged race, I'm not hopping in a potato sock.
31:28
Speaker 2: I'm not doing like a baton relay race. I couldn't
31:33
Speaker 2: give a shit. But when we lost Color War, I sobbed.
31:39
Speaker 1: I subbed, Babetta, get like my mom died. I gotta
31:45
Speaker 1: get a grip, my god, I do we Okay? So
31:49
Speaker 1: our camp definitely had a kind of a kind of
31:52
Speaker 1: camp wide game. We're in the respective cabins were pit
31:57
Speaker 1: against each other like each cabin is a team, and
32:00
Speaker 1: everyone had to do something something throughout the week. I
32:02
Speaker 1: don't even remember what the object object was, which is
32:05
Speaker 1: how little I cared. But on that note, uh, just
32:08
Speaker 1: another reason why camp is just not really my thing,
32:11
Speaker 1: especially when it comes to boys. Camp is I Since
32:15
Speaker 1: I was a teeny tiny baby and now as a
32:19
Speaker 1: full fledged adults remains to be true. I absolutely despise
32:24
Speaker 1: manual labor of any kind. I will not do it
32:27
Speaker 1: unless I absolutely have to labor. No, yeah, I'm all
32:30
Speaker 1: about that. Will manual labor. Okay, I'm not tranual labor.
32:34
Speaker 1: That's so funny. Emual labor. Yeah, that's all I was
32:37
Speaker 1: trying to do. I was like, look out for that
32:39
Speaker 1: podcast coming next year. To that to the outspoken me
32:43
Speaker 1: and Jonathan Vndes, No, I'm just kidding. No, Jonathan is transit,
32:51
Speaker 1: but yeah, I I am really just There's so many
32:54
Speaker 1: things that I loved about summer Camp, primarily just not
32:57
Speaker 1: being around my parents for two three weeks, but and
33:00
Speaker 1: I also loved, you know, autonomy. I loved like being
33:03
Speaker 1: able to like build friendships like outside of the context
33:07
Speaker 1: of your own life, as we've talked about. But something
33:10
Speaker 1: that Phoebe has said in the chat that I think
33:12
Speaker 1: is a very lesbian contribution to this conversation is that
33:16
Speaker 1: parent Trap was extremely formative of my kind of like
33:21
Speaker 1: view on summer Camp. Like the summer camp in the
33:25
Speaker 1: movie is so idyllic and like fun and creative and
33:31
Speaker 1: naughty troublemakery, like you aspire to be as cool and
33:35
Speaker 1: like like as a rich a narrative as like those kids,
33:39
Speaker 1: and I really did fulfill that like ore and rich.
33:42
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, let's let's say that like those kids
33:44
Speaker 1: were rich, But no, I really did, like you have
33:47
Speaker 1: to be to be being sent to these camps, Like
33:50
Speaker 1: they cost a lot of money. OURK summer camps had
33:52
Speaker 1: like scholarships where you would get like stipends to like
33:57
Speaker 1: offset the cost of your like tuition.
33:59
Speaker 2: But if I if I remember correctly, yeah, I actually
34:02
Speaker 2: think it costs like I think probably like a thousand
34:05
Speaker 2: dollars or something like that for me to go. I
34:11
Speaker 2: think it was at least a thousand dollars. I actually
34:13
Speaker 2: need to check in. I actually don't know how much
34:15
Speaker 2: how much it was, but I don't know. I did
34:18
Speaker 2: you do you like parent Trap?
34:20
Speaker 1: Are you? Are you a parent Trap stand? Because I
34:22
Speaker 1: love the of course I feel like Meredith Blake, right,
34:27
Speaker 1: I mean, Meredith Blake is definitely formative cultural like figure
34:32
Speaker 1: like the evil femmes that I would latch onto. Meredith
34:36
Speaker 1: invented athletes. I feel like the parent Trap was unfortunately
34:42
Speaker 1: a very millennial thing, like it's like everyone yeah, like
34:47
Speaker 1: BuzzFeed culture like loves the Parent Trap, like the Parent Traps.
34:51
Speaker 1: They'll they'll never stop talking about it. It's like it's
34:55
Speaker 1: the only movie that came out in the in the nineties. Yeah,
34:59
Speaker 1: that in Napoleone. So so.
35:02
Speaker 2: I don't know about you, but you know, as I said,
35:06
Speaker 2: theater was the thing that I did at camp.
35:09
Speaker 1: You know, that's that was my reason for being there.
35:13
Speaker 1: All the world of stage. Honey, hand me a microphone.
35:17
Speaker 1: And as I said, I starred in almost every production
35:21
Speaker 1: that we did during my time there. I was in
35:23
Speaker 1: Annie Get Your Gun. I was in Newsy's.
35:26
Speaker 2: We did a production of Newsies long before it was
35:28
Speaker 2: made into a Broadway show, so it was like not
35:30
Speaker 2: very normal to do Newsies as a stage show.
35:32
Speaker 1: I mean, we can believe this, But would you like
35:35
Speaker 1: to share who you played at any of these respective Yeah?
35:38
Speaker 2: I was Frank in Newsy I mean I was Frank
35:41
Speaker 2: and any Get Your Gun, which is the male lead.
35:43
Speaker 1: I did you know anything you can do? I can
35:45
Speaker 1: do better?
35:45
Speaker 2: And of course all of these shows I wanted to
35:47
Speaker 2: play the I wanted to be Annie. And like it's
35:51
Speaker 2: the thing is there was still gender bending that happened
35:54
Speaker 2: because when I was in Newsi's the Christian Bale character
35:58
Speaker 2: was played by a little because there were not enough
36:02
Speaker 2: boys who wanted to do a theater, so they were
36:05
Speaker 2: casting It's like, you know, it's like very peter Pan.
36:10
Speaker 1: This. They cast this like like androgynous young.
36:14
Speaker 2: Female Williams in Yeah, I went to camp with Alison Williams.
36:19
Speaker 2: But yeah, I like I was such in my mind,
36:23
Speaker 2: I was such hot shit. But like the whole half
36:26
Speaker 2: of the camp that like didn't do anything, you know, theatrical,
36:30
Speaker 2: like thought we were all losers.
36:32
Speaker 1: Which would you say on a metric of quality and
36:35
Speaker 1: your critical eye was the best production you did?
36:38
Speaker 2: And why probably any gets your gun because there weren't
36:42
Speaker 2: as many fucking like toddlers in it as there were
36:44
Speaker 2: in Yeazies because we had to fill out the cast.
36:47
Speaker 1: Yeah.
36:47
Speaker 2: And then my last year at camp, when I was
36:50
Speaker 2: I had gotten you know, too old, I was like,
36:52
Speaker 2: I'm not doing theater this year because I'm better than this,
36:55
Speaker 2: because I'm going you know, I was like going to
36:58
Speaker 2: an art school that fall, and I was like, fuck this,
37:00
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna like listen to my.
37:02
Speaker 1: Walk and smoke weed, smoke me hold my ship, smoke weed,
37:08
Speaker 1: suck my first dick, fall in love with my best
37:11
Speaker 1: friend and go figure skating, because that's something we got
37:14
Speaker 1: to do. At my camp, they had, you know, your day,
37:16
Speaker 1: split them into activities, and you have to sign up
37:19
Speaker 1: for activities every day. And one of the things we
37:21
Speaker 1: could do was take the camp vans to the local
37:25
Speaker 1: ice skating rink and you could either do figure skating
37:29
Speaker 1: or ice hockey. Do you want to guess which one
37:31
Speaker 1: they did? Probably figure skating. I'm gonna guess trick question.
37:36
Speaker 1: I did both. I did both. Wait, wait, figure skating
37:42
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like something you would like. Were you good
37:44
Speaker 1: at it? I love figure skating.
37:47
Speaker 2: I was not good at it, but I was, you know,
37:50
Speaker 2: I was like twirling while Drops of Jubiter was playing
37:53
Speaker 2: over the sound system.
37:55
Speaker 1: Oh my god, not Drops of Jubiter. They were doing
37:58
Speaker 1: what's that Aerosmith song? I don't want to miss thing?
38:03
Speaker 1: Remember we I didn't. I hated sports of any kind,
38:07
Speaker 1: so but yeah, I don't know what like summer camp
38:10
Speaker 1: they just they kind of Summer camps are like extremely gendered,
38:14
Speaker 1: but also I fear like two genderless, Like they really
38:19
Speaker 1: try and mesh boys and girls in like games of
38:21
Speaker 1: sports and like relay races and like high ropes courses,
38:25
Speaker 1: and it's like, actually, no, like we should be segregating
38:28
Speaker 1: genders and the girls should just do arts and I
38:31
Speaker 1: should be a girl like I. I do not want
38:35
Speaker 1: to do the high rope scores. I don't want to
38:37
Speaker 1: do the sports. I don't want to do the manual
38:39
Speaker 1: labor like just like like shelter me, treat me like
38:45
Speaker 1: a fragile, little, you know, porcelain doll and never let
38:50
Speaker 1: me be in danger.
38:52
Speaker 2: Sorry, no, I I agree, but a slight but from
38:56
Speaker 2: a slightly different angle. Because I was a fat kid obviously,
38:59
Speaker 2: so I hated playing sports. I was really bad at them.
39:03
Speaker 2: I was not I was an indoor kid, so I
39:06
Speaker 2: was always somewhere reading and or doing theater, or like
39:11
Speaker 2: at the Arts and Crafts building doing arts and crafts.
39:13
Speaker 2: I did not want to play sports, except when I
39:17
Speaker 2: was doing ice hockey and I was actually d.
39:19
Speaker 1: Okay wait, I have no oh my god, the most
39:23
Speaker 1: visceral childhood slash teenage memories have like come back to
39:28
Speaker 1: me of probably my best year at Jesus Camp, wherein
39:32
Speaker 1: I did date that girl or try to date that girl, Ashley,
39:34
Speaker 1: and I was also madly in love with my best
39:37
Speaker 1: camp friend named Luke, who we were both so viciously closeted.
39:43
Speaker 1: He had bleach blonde hair and a mere apostle, plaid
39:48
Speaker 1: shorts and like you know those like canvas leather thongs,
39:52
Speaker 1: like pleather thongs, I mean for the the ones that
39:55
Speaker 1: I was wearing in that. Yeah, honey, he was dressed.
40:00
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I hate that. I love it at
40:04
Speaker 1: summer camp. Okay, but I was going to ask you
40:09
Speaker 1: a question that would lead into my story. Did you
40:11
Speaker 1: get naked in the locker rooms? Was their nudity? No?
40:16
Speaker 2: It was always like covering myself with a towel, changing,
40:21
Speaker 2: changing in the shower stuff.
40:23
Speaker 1: The girls, other boys, the other girls, thanks for driving
40:28
Speaker 1: the other other boys they were oh no, they were
40:31
Speaker 1: walking around like fucking they didn't care. It was like, well,
40:36
Speaker 1: it was you know this thing that teen boys do
40:38
Speaker 1: where it's like it's engaged. You know, they're engaging. They're
40:41
Speaker 1: engaging in the most home erootic behavior, but like with
40:44
Speaker 1: the most no homes. And it's honestly like the kids
40:47
Speaker 1: that were like grew up Christian had so much shame
40:49
Speaker 1: that we just like had our tidies, tidy whities, on
40:52
Speaker 1: for dear life and like not showering the entire week,
40:56
Speaker 1: because like that was like the most terrifying thing I
40:59
Speaker 1: could possibly in front of someone, like being naked. But
41:02
Speaker 1: to your point, all these other little everywhere, all these
41:06
Speaker 1: other little boys were like love to be naked, and
41:09
Speaker 1: we're totally comfortable with it. And I remember enving them
41:12
Speaker 1: and being like why, Like why am I so afraid
41:14
Speaker 1: to be nude? But I rose seeing my crushes penises
41:20
Speaker 1: in this shower and like the feeling that that has
41:24
Speaker 1: it's like pool party. It's like pool party trauma, Like
41:27
Speaker 1: it's so there's so much shame. But also I was
41:31
Speaker 1: so confused about what I was feeling, and like we
41:35
Speaker 1: were and the two of us, me and Luke were
41:36
Speaker 1: like so in the closet and so clearly into each
41:39
Speaker 1: other because we're spending every minute together and yet and
41:44
Speaker 1: I remember them being like they were like, why don't
41:46
Speaker 1: you get naked too? And I'm like, what the the
41:48
Speaker 1: homosociality of summer camp in general? Like what is that?
41:52
Speaker 1: It's so confusing? I don't know.
41:55
Speaker 2: I mean, well, it's well, you're all going through puberty,
41:58
Speaker 2: it's very sexually charged. Everything is sexual. I actually I
42:02
Speaker 2: can't speak for anyone else, but after I went through puberty,
42:06
Speaker 2: I was under the covers fappen every night that blank
42:10
Speaker 2: That blanket could have been cracked in from all the
42:13
Speaker 2: dry throat of the dry ye on it. Because I
42:17
Speaker 2: there was one summer that I found I was learning
42:20
Speaker 2: to play the drums in the band cabin, the band
42:24
Speaker 2: bunk or whatever, and I found a porn novel on
42:28
Speaker 2: the floor and I it gave me so much material
42:32
Speaker 2: to work with.
42:32
Speaker 1: You love the written word, baby, I love the written word.
42:37
Speaker 1: To yank your crank too, baby, Uncle Ronnie do horties.
43:03
Speaker 1: You know, when you're at that like qu best and
43:05
Speaker 1: preps in age, like you're starting to make sex jokes.
43:08
Speaker 1: And even though we were at Jesus Camp, the kids
43:10
Speaker 1: would like make jokes and then the counselors would like
43:12
Speaker 1: yell at them. But mind you, the counselors are really
43:15
Speaker 1: only like seventeen, Like they're not even like of age.
43:19
Speaker 1: They're just like, you know, three or four years older
43:21
Speaker 1: than the kids they are attending to. And like when
43:25
Speaker 1: you're that young, three to five years feels like twenty years,
43:28
Speaker 1: like they might as well be thirty something. Yeah, did
43:32
Speaker 1: any of the counselors that your camp fuck the campaigners
43:35
Speaker 1: because that that happened. Oh, oh my god, that's really
43:37
Speaker 1: fucked up. No, but one of them was, yeah, they
43:40
Speaker 1: used to get us if they used to get us
43:41
Speaker 1: booze and they used to fuck. There were two that
43:44
Speaker 1: So the year that my favorite year at summer camp
43:46
Speaker 1: where I fell in love with Luke and Ashley, I
43:48
Speaker 1: also had two very transparently closeted gay counselors named Gloria
43:55
Speaker 1: and Kenny. And I remember Kenny yelling at these kids
44:00
Speaker 1: because like one of them was like under his cover
44:03
Speaker 1: and like proclaiming to the rest of the cabin that
44:06
Speaker 1: he was like playing with himself. And I was like,
44:10
Speaker 1: this guy, you have like a like a kind of
44:12
Speaker 1: like exhibitionist like thing that you know you're going to
44:15
Speaker 1: discover later on in life. Yeah, wait, who are camp counselors? What?
44:20
Speaker 1: So did you ever become a camp counselor? Yes, but
44:25
Speaker 1: but never never for a summer camp. There were a
44:28
Speaker 1: couple years.
44:30
Speaker 2: Where I was a camp counselor at like a winter
44:35
Speaker 2: break camp, but I was always more of a babysitter.
44:40
Speaker 1: I did not do a lot of camp counselor ing.
44:43
Speaker 1: I was never a c T a counselor in training,
44:47
Speaker 1: but my younger brother was. At one point I was,
44:50
Speaker 1: and we still had to pay to be there. We
44:53
Speaker 1: had to pay a discounted camp rate to basically do
45:00
Speaker 1: essentially like free labor for the summer camp counseling these kids.
45:04
Speaker 1: And we like clean toilets and like did like cafeteria shifts,
45:08
Speaker 1: like what we had to pay to do that. It's crazy.
45:14
Speaker 1: But I was gonna say something that was very silly
45:19
Speaker 1: that I had to then do as a camp counselor
45:21
Speaker 1: but also did as a camper. Was after I think
45:24
Speaker 1: I've already told you this before, after every single camp activity,
45:29
Speaker 1: whether it was like zipline, like doing tubing, the blob
45:33
Speaker 1: arts and crafts whatever, after tubing, after every activity, we
45:40
Speaker 1: would get in a circle, like our cabin would get
45:42
Speaker 1: in a circle, and we would talk about how that
45:44
Speaker 1: activity related to Jesus Christ. And it'd be like, so
45:49
Speaker 1: today today we're at the high robes chores, Like, how
45:52
Speaker 1: is this like your relationship with Jesus? And I was like,
45:55
Speaker 1: Jesus is the ropes and gravity is the devil, and
46:00
Speaker 1: and you know if you fall, it's a sin. And
46:02
Speaker 1: like that's like what we had to do. We had
46:04
Speaker 1: to like metaphorize like every fucking thing we did, Like
46:08
Speaker 1: we were like, you know, eighth grade English students, and
46:12
Speaker 1: I hate I hated it. It was so forced. Wow,
46:16
Speaker 1: that's so lame.
46:19
Speaker 2: The summer after my last year at Sleepway Camp, because
46:24
Speaker 2: you know, my brother was still going to camp and
46:25
Speaker 2: my mom obviously still wanted to get rid of me.
46:28
Speaker 2: During the summer, I did the sort of next level
46:32
Speaker 2: of camp, which is a teen tour. Do you know
46:34
Speaker 2: what a teen tour is?
46:35
Speaker 1: Yeah? What is it?
46:36
Speaker 2: So it's like a bunch of teenagers are sent on
46:41
Speaker 2: a trip. It's like traveling summer camp. So you're on
46:45
Speaker 2: a bus with a bunch of other teenagers and you
46:49
Speaker 2: go on like a pre selected route. So the teen
46:52
Speaker 2: tour I went on was all the West Coast, so
46:57
Speaker 2: we would go to like the national parks. We went
46:59
Speaker 2: to Stay Francisco, we went to La went to Salt
47:03
Speaker 2: Lake City, I think, and some of them are all camping,
47:07
Speaker 2: some of them are all hotels. Ours was half and
47:10
Speaker 2: half and yeah, it's it's like summer camp on the road,
47:16
Speaker 2: and so it's like a little bit more grown up,
47:19
Speaker 2: and I felt very worldly. You know that I went
47:21
Speaker 2: and explored the other side of the country. And that's
47:28
Speaker 2: also where I made my first designer purchase ever, was
47:33
Speaker 2: in San Francisco. I went to the Louis Bauton store
47:35
Speaker 2: and bought a pair of slides with my mom's Target
47:40
Speaker 2: credit card that she had given me for emergency.
47:42
Speaker 1: You were such a little brat like I was. Abe
47:47
Speaker 1: LV is like the Gateway luxury brand those But why
47:51
Speaker 1: those bags are hideous? I guess they are kind of
47:54
Speaker 1: like doniye Burk adjacent, Like they are so ugly that
47:57
Speaker 1: Midwestern moms like just have to have them. It's just
48:01
Speaker 1: about the label.
48:02
Speaker 2: It's like the most it's the most visible logo of
48:05
Speaker 2: any you know, designer friend.
48:08
Speaker 1: What when did you stop going to camp? Not soon enough?
48:13
Speaker 1: I actually don't know. I probably stopped when I was, like,
48:17
Speaker 1: I mean, definitely before I think my I think freshman
48:20
Speaker 1: year of high school maybe was my last year. Like
48:24
Speaker 1: I think that by the time I had entered high school,
48:27
Speaker 1: I had started to, you know, liberate myself a little bit.
48:32
Speaker 1: I was starting to think for myself. I was trying to,
48:35
Speaker 1: you know, figure out who I was. And I think
48:38
Speaker 1: as a consequence of that I just hated church, hated Christianity,
48:41
Speaker 1: hated like being around church people, and was just pulling
48:45
Speaker 1: away from it as much as possible. So I did,
48:48
Speaker 1: you know, eventually stop going. But it felt so sad,
48:52
Speaker 1: like I felt, I feel like because I was such
48:55
Speaker 1: a I don't know what kind of like high.
48:57
Speaker 3: School that you were, like, I was such a loser
49:00
Speaker 3: in school, like a loser, loser, loser until like pretty
49:04
Speaker 3: much my last two years of school before college and.
49:10
Speaker 1: Summer camp is where I felt like I belonged, Like
49:12
Speaker 1: uh yeah, And you know why.
49:14
Speaker 2: You know why that is because you get to lie
49:16
Speaker 2: about who you are because no, because no one goes
49:19
Speaker 2: to school with you, So you get to lie your
49:21
Speaker 2: ass off about your life and make yourself sound a
49:24
Speaker 2: lot cooler than you are. The only problem I ran
49:27
Speaker 2: into with that was that I had a younger brother
49:29
Speaker 2: who was always happy to contradict my lies and tell
49:33
Speaker 2: people what the truth was about my life.
49:35
Speaker 1: EW I knowed I hate I mean, I I mean,
49:38
Speaker 1: I was like definitely in there being like, yeah, I'm straight,
49:41
Speaker 1: you gras, I'm totally a boy, you guys, But I
49:44
Speaker 1: feel like there is like I feel like I was
49:50
Speaker 1: ultimately actually trying to be myself because I couldn't be
49:54
Speaker 1: myself back at home in some way. So I am
49:58
Speaker 1: grateful to like have had that space in Summer camp.
50:01
Speaker 1: And something else that's very specific to Jesus Camp that
50:04
Speaker 1: I don't know if you did a version of this,
50:05
Speaker 1: but every night, or maybe every other night, maybe we
50:09
Speaker 1: took a night off every other night or so, we
50:11
Speaker 1: would have like a kind of campfire moment where we
50:13
Speaker 1: would do like a little worship music and we would
50:15
Speaker 1: like do like an icebreak or something, and then we
50:20
Speaker 1: would take turns sharing our deepest, darkest trauma. And and literally,
50:27
Speaker 1: I'm not joking, I'm not joking. It was like it
50:29
Speaker 1: was is honestly, it's honestly like the heart Circles of
50:33
Speaker 1: Beltane like it. But the way it was so methodical,
50:37
Speaker 1: like every single kid was required to have like a
50:42
Speaker 1: sharing moment at this campfire, and because of the prompts
50:46
Speaker 1: and like how it was set up to like you know,
50:49
Speaker 1: basically like asking about how you accepted Jesus in your
50:51
Speaker 1: heart and like what your like kind of biggest obstacle
50:53
Speaker 1: was in it or whatever. These kids were like sobbing
50:56
Speaker 1: and talking about you know, when they were like abuse
51:00
Speaker 1: start like you know, like having sexual relations with older
51:03
Speaker 1: kids or like closet and like I never, you know,
51:06
Speaker 1: told him that I was gay, But I don't. I
51:07
Speaker 1: don't even remember, like what I had to lie about
51:09
Speaker 1: to like tell them what my trauma was. That's that's
51:12
Speaker 1: when you that's when the stories came out. Like the
51:14
Speaker 1: kid I was, we never had to do any of
51:17
Speaker 1: that ship, but that would have been my moment to
51:19
Speaker 1: tell the most detailed, outrageous, unbelievable lie that I was,
51:27
Speaker 1: like so sure I was getting away with when everyone
51:31
Speaker 1: must have been like that kid's like he's her knees
51:35
Speaker 1: lying his head. Didn't even need to lie, you could
51:37
Speaker 1: just tell them like one. So from there.
51:40
Speaker 2: But I loved lying. When I was a kid, I
51:42
Speaker 2: loved lying and I thought I was so good. I
51:44
Speaker 2: mean always I was, but I always added too much detail.
51:50
Speaker 2: But you know, the thing is kids are stupid, so
51:52
Speaker 2: they'll believe that too much detail. That's true, But the
51:54
Speaker 2: count and they knew what was up, and I was
51:58
Speaker 2: such I okay. So I always wanted to be friends
52:03
Speaker 2: with both the older campers and the counselors. And I
52:08
Speaker 2: still cringe thinking about trying to make counselors like me
52:13
Speaker 2: and just what a loser I was, And Sphoebe said,
52:16
Speaker 2: this is why I have a podcast now, why Like
52:19
Speaker 2: because I was like a lying.
52:21
Speaker 1: Loser making up stories. Wow, summer Camp is really dramatic.
52:28
Speaker 1: You know.
52:28
Speaker 2: I'm I'm like glad that I went. I don't know, well,
52:32
Speaker 2: I'm not planning on having children. I don't know that
52:35
Speaker 2: I would send them to sleep Boy Camp if I
52:38
Speaker 2: were to have children.
52:39
Speaker 1: Because.
52:41
Speaker 2: Like I get needing the time off from being a parent,
52:45
Speaker 2: but also like you signed up.
52:48
Speaker 1: For this, so it would depend on my partner. But
52:51
Speaker 1: if I have kids, they're going to boarding school. Yeah,
52:54
Speaker 1: I mean not boarding school. I wouldn't be that cruel,
52:57
Speaker 1: but yeah, I need a break, Like I don't want
52:59
Speaker 1: to see you for months at a time one hundred
53:03
Speaker 1: and ten percent otherwise like what am I going to do? Yeah?
53:05
Speaker 2: I mean I feel like when my when my nephew
53:08
Speaker 2: is like a teenager and my brother and sister in
53:12
Speaker 2: law want to send him to camp, I'll be like,
53:14
Speaker 2: send him to York. He can stay with me for
53:16
Speaker 2: a couple of months and like have a you know,
53:19
Speaker 2: an experience. I think that would be but you know,
53:22
Speaker 2: they probably want to hang out with kids want to
53:24
Speaker 2: hang out with other kids weirdly enough, so he probably
53:26
Speaker 2: would rather.
53:27
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, I just like, I know
53:30
Speaker 1: not every kid is like this, but like I craved
53:33
Speaker 1: time away from my parents, and you do the most
53:36
Speaker 1: growing up when you leave home, leave your parents, find
53:40
Speaker 1: a new context. Like it's just good for you and
53:43
Speaker 1: good for your soul and no, I just want to
53:46
Speaker 1: be around my mom MoMA. Girl.
53:55
Speaker 2: Slide into our dms at Like a Virgin four twenty
53:57
Speaker 2: sixty nine. Let us know what's your favorite summer camp activity.
54:03
Speaker 1: Which color would you want to be in? Color war
54:06
Speaker 1: slash I guess the race war. I don't know about that.
54:11
Speaker 1: Make sure you listen next week for an all new episode.
54:14
Speaker 2: Until then, you can buy our merchan at like a
54:17
Speaker 2: Virgin four twenty sixty nine dot com. You can also
54:21
Speaker 2: subscribe to our Patreon Patreon dot com slash like a
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Speaker 2: Virgin four weekly bonus episodes, and follow us on Instagram
54:28
Speaker 2: at like a Virgin four twenty sixty nine. You can
54:31
Speaker 2: also follow me anywhere if you want, at Rose Damue,
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Speaker 2: and you can.
54:35
Speaker 1: Search my name tran Thrato on any social media platform.
54:38
Speaker 1: I need to change my handle ros I can I
54:41
Speaker 1: need it to be? You really need to change it.
54:46
Speaker 2: Like a Virgin's iHeartRadio production our producers pepe Unter, with
54:49
Speaker 2: support from Lindsay Hoffmann and Nikki
54:51
Speaker 1: Etur Bye Smell Ya later, Luke