Latest / Come Together with Ephraim Herschmann / #119: Dr. Zafra Lerman / World Peace Through Science

Transcript

#119: Dr. Zafra Lerman / World Peace Through Science · Come Together with Ephraim Herschmann

0:01
Welcome to another episode of Come Together,
0:15
Doctor Zafra Lerman. Welcome.
0:17
I'm so happy to have you. Did you say Zafra or Zafra?
0:21
Zafra, it's a tadi faireesh alif it's from the Talmud.
0:27
Oh, really? Yeah.
0:29
My sister is Tipora and she's Cy.
0:33
She she spells in English CYP. I was supposed to be Tipora, but
0:39
my father that was a pioneer, made that nobody that Ayaspora
0:45
held about. OK.
0:48
It's all tough, OK. Well, I love it.
0:51
I love it so. So tell me a little bit about
0:54
yourself. Tell me about who you are, what
0:56
you, what you know, what your, what your work that you've done
0:59
and you're still going full steam ahead.
1:02
You're not stopping ever. And I love that and I think it's
1:04
amazing. OK.
1:07
I was born in Israel when it was still the British Mandate of
1:14
Palestine. So I managed to get the birth
1:18
certificate that says that my nationality is Palestinian.
1:25
I am really a person that can prove that I'm Palestinian.
1:30
It says my nationality is Palestinian.
1:35
I grew up in Israel. My parents belong to belong to
1:40
the generation that built the country.
1:44
My father both of them came from very Orthodox family.
1:49
My father, his friends in the US used to tell me that he would
1:54
walk around in, They lived in a state rule in a small town near
2:03
Odessa, and everybody was ultra Orthodox.
2:07
And he would walk around and tell them that just to pray will
2:13
not save the Jews, that there will be not only pogroms, but
2:18
there will be something was the pogrom and only having a Jewish
2:23
state can save. So one day he walked along the
2:27
water with his mother. He was 17.
2:30
He's so roughed. He said goodbye and went to
2:34
build the Jewish state and arrived in 1920.
2:39
Took him two years to arrive and my they met there.
2:46
My mother was there again from a very, very Orthodox family near
2:54
Kiev, in a town near Kiev, and the Bolshevik killed their
3:01
parents and their older brother. So they were left 8 orphans, 7
3:07
girl. The last one was a boy and my
3:10
mother was the youngest among all the girls.
3:13
She was very young. They did not want to separate,
3:17
so they moved from one place to the other till they arrived to
3:22
Palestine can. I ask you, Doctor, I'm sorry,
3:26
just to clarify, in case anyone doesn't know, can you tell me
3:29
just briefly about the Bolsheviks, in case anyone
3:32
listening does not know about them, because I didn't know
3:34
about them until very recently. And so I want anyone listening
3:37
to understand the context. During that period, it was the
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now it's Ukraine, it was Russia for many years.
3:50
And there were, it was before the revolution, before the
4:00
communists took over. They were a group that they were
4:04
the Bolsheviks that were trying to establish the the communism
4:12
and they were killing Jews for no reason, just walking and
4:17
killing Jews. And not only that, they were
4:22
forcing the families to bury their dead.
4:26
And this would happen to my mother's family.
4:30
Was there was there excuse that it was overpopulation or there
4:34
was no excuse? So since when is there an excuse
4:39
to kill the Jews? Right.
4:45
Few times they make an excuse but you know anti-Semitism is a
4:53
a disease. I call it the disease.
4:57
My grandfather used to say that that that that that that that
4:59
gets passed down in people's mother's milk.
5:02
He said that. He used to say that about the
5:03
Ukrainians, and he said that the Ukrainians and the Polish got
5:07
their anti-Semitism from their mother's milk.
5:10
It's it's very deep. It's very deep and there is,
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this is what it is. Look, on October seven, the
5:24
terrorist that threw babies into the oven and burned them in
5:32
front of the parents and then beheaded their their parents,
5:37
they videotaped it and sent it back home is to show what big
5:42
heroes they are and what they are doing.
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And it's it's the haters to the Jews goes on for many, many
5:52
years. And I have my own explanation,
5:57
but it's not for this podcast. No problem.
6:01
Beautiful. OK, thank you for clarifying.
6:03
So you're, so both your parents came to Palestine pre, you know,
6:07
British mandated Palestine. By the way, my grandmother who's
6:10
Yemenite, my dad's mother also, her family came.
6:16
I don't know exactly what year they came from Yemen.
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And there were, I think 12 or 13 of them of the kids.
6:23
And they all served in the British Army for many, many
6:27
years until until the state of Israel started to exist.
6:31
And they all lived on King George Street.
6:33
And my and two, I think 2, my uncle and my aunt are still
6:37
alive today and still live there now.
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And they have hundreds of family members.
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You have to explain King George Street.
6:44
In which town? Which?
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City in your Salaam. I'm sorry.
6:47
I'm sorry. In Jerusalem, I apologize.
6:49
Yes, King George in Jerusalem and what was, you know, all of
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Jerusalem was just a couple of blocks at the time that that,
6:54
that, that we had access to correct.
7:00
Different periods and that stage, yes, we had the access to
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to everywhere because it was all the British Mandate of
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Palestine, the High Commissioner to Palestine.
7:17
He lived in what is is Jerusalem, but he was
7:23
responsible for all of Palestine and the till now there is the
7:30
House of the High Commissioner Baytanati value and the the the
7:39
first High Commissioner to Palestine was Lord Herbert
7:45
Samuel that was Jewish and his grandson that was born in the
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house where the High Commissioner lived.
8:02
He became Lord Lord David Herbert Samuel the Right on Bull
8:09
of Mount Carmel and he was my PhD advisor.
8:17
And the. Weisman Institute of Science and
8:22
when I did my PhD in chemistry and he always asked me why did
8:29
you choose me? And I said because I looked all
8:32
over for a professor and a load, so I didn't have many choices.
8:39
Like was making fun of him for sure.
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The field of research was what I wanted to work with him, but I
8:48
always used to. But I have to admit that when he
8:51
used to come to the American Chemical Society meeting in the
8:56
US, his credit card did not have his name.
9:00
It was the Right Honourable Vikrant of my Carmel and all the
9:06
cameras. Will you introduce me to the
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Lord? Will you introduce me to the
9:10
Lord? He was a big attraction because
9:14
he was a Lord. Wow, yeah, so cool, so
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interesting. And getting your chemistry,
9:20
getting your PhD at the time, I don't remember I was talking, I
9:25
was telling my mother that you did that and she said that at
9:28
the time it was very difficult for women to get their pH DS.
9:31
I don't know if that's accurate. What was that your experience?
9:34
Very accurate it was how do they were not wearing women till few
9:40
years ago where we was fighting to to accept more women.
9:46
The same was in medical school. Today, medical school in the US,
9:51
the majority are women. 20 years ago we had to fight to get women
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for sure. In addition, I was already
10:01
married with a child because I got my career started from every
10:07
point of view very young and so this was very unusual and
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probably still unusual till today to have a child as an
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undergraduate student and managed to go straight for a
10:23
bachelor, master, PhD. My son attended all my 3
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ceremonies. That's beautiful.
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It's crazy. It's beautiful.
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It's such an amazing thing. Yeah.
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Wow. Was very nice.
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But you know, in my high school class I was already the only
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girl because I went to a reality school in in Haifa that was a
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very, very high level school. But we had like majors already
11:00
in high school and in order to get to a major in science and
11:05
math, you had like to take exams.
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And I come the first day to school and I realize I'm the
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only girl. So during all the periods where
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girl have the best girlfriends, my best girlfriends were boys
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because I didn't have girls in my class.
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Did you? Were you?
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Were you? Did your parents put a big
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emphasis on education? That's why you were able to,
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That's why you pushed to do it. Or did you?
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Did you have the drive? If my parents would push me for
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education, I probably would be elementary without, because
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everything that somebody tried to push me, I had to do the
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opposite. So no.
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My father told me that what will be nice is if I'll be a
11:53
kindergarten teacher and then I'll have always vacation with
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my children will have vacation. But now I knew I'll be a
12:02
scientist when I was two years old.
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Wow. From the question I, I, I was
12:10
asking, I remember spending hours in front of the mirror and
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saying I had neighbors that were identical twins.
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So I thought I have one because it looked so cool to me that
12:27
everybody should have one. So I was sitting in front of the
12:31
mirror and trying to persuade mind twin to come and be with
12:35
me. Erin said it's not a twin, you
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don't have a twin, it's you. I said to me, what am I doing
12:44
there? If I'm here, how does that work?
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And I would have the questions like that from a very young age.
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I remember there was a wooden box and it was say, this is the
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voice of Jerusalem, it was the radio.
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And I will get anybody to explain to me how am I in
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national in the beginning and then in Haifa, how am I there?
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How can I hear the voice of Jerusalem?
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So this kind of questioning all the time, I knew that I will be
13:24
a scientist. And then, you know, by the age
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of 13, I already was in this class that was science and math,
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but I was the only girl. So I knew I'm going One
13:37
Direction. And I went to the Technion
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Israel Institute of Technology for my bachelor and master.
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And then I moved to Rehovert near Tel Aviv from my PhD to
13:52
Weitzman Institute. That is one of the best science
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research science research institutes in the world, one of
14:04
the best. Yeah, yeah.
14:07
And I mentioned to you yesterday, we were talking on
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the phone that I was just there myself and it's really, really
14:12
cool. And I was staying in, I stayed
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in Rehovote for the first time. I'd never been there before.
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And I fell in love with the place.
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I thought it was so charming and so nice and so, and it it was a
14:23
great bridge between families and and city, you know, that,
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you know, you could do the apartments were spacious enough
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that they could, you know, you could put a family in it and you
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could feel comfortable with a nice porch and a nice and, you
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know, and, and everyone felt, felt, you could tell it felt
14:38
very at home with all the parks, you know, just for everyone to
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come hang out together. I kind of wish that America had
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a little bit more of those type of structures that it was
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socially part of life to just, you know, go to a park and just
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talk to people that are there. You know, I mean, that's
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something that we that we're missing here.
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Oh, from social life and people to people.
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We are missing much more than Israel has.
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When people say to me, what do you miss in Israel?
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I say to people, the people you know, it's just, it's a
15:19
community. Yeah, yeah.
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Even even when I go to any event or something, anywhere in the
15:30
world, immediately it is really sound together because it's a
15:34
family. It's just one big family.
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And this you don't have in the in the US and like in like a
15:43
condominium in Israel, everybody knows each other.
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They they socialize with each other.
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I can't believe what? Their doors are unlocked, people
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just come in and out of each other's houses.
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It's crazy. I can't believe that people
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don't know and everything you have to call.
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If no, now it's it's different. You don't call anymore.
16:06
You tell X to find out when you can make phone call.
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Yes, yes, yes. I noticed, I, I noticed that I,
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that when I was there, I was there for a week and then I was
16:19
in Amsterdam and for a couple of days and I noticed that, that I
16:24
really enjoyed that. It felt like it wasn't like that
16:26
in that part of the world that people were really much more
16:29
inclined to just talk to each other in the street.
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You know, I went to a coffee shop in Amsterdam and I was
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saying, should I, I said to my friend, let's go sit outside and
16:39
right outside the door, I guess the door was open a little bit
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and the people, the two women outside heard that we were
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saying that there was, there's only one table.
16:46
There was, there's three chairs and they moved over and pulled
16:49
over another chair and said there's only one table, but we'd
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love to sit with you. When's the next?
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When's the last time you heard someone doing that in Manhattan?
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You know, it was awesome. You heard someone doing that in
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Miami Beach or anything like that.
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It doesn't. It doesn't happen, you know.
17:00
So I thought it was really, really wonderful.
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I would like to try to normalize it, but I don't know what the
17:06
root of the problem is. Maybe it's social media, maybe
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it's, you know, all this identity politics.
17:12
I don't know. It's social media, but in many,
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many. Years.
17:17
Oh yeah. It's now much better than when
17:20
when I just came to the States, I remember the belly were
17:25
outdoor places. It was unusual.
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I said what's wrong? I wasn't slowed down.
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I said why are they not outdoor places?
17:35
So no, I think now we are much better than when it was than it
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was before the social media, I don't blame the social media for
17:48
this development because it proceeded with social media.
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So the social media, we can blame off it with anything
17:58
because they have misinformation, but.
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You say they exasperated it. They made it worse.
18:04
No, I don't think they have anything to do with it.
18:08
OK, I don't think social media has anything to do with it.
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It's last day. This is how we develop.
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Remember this country was built with people that came from Great
18:25
Britain and they had a different culture.
18:29
And this was the beginning, the culture that became part of the
18:38
culture in the US. It's it's different, but it's
18:43
for sure developed much more to have outdoor things and people
18:49
talking to each other. So it's not like in Israel.
18:55
In Israel you talk, everybody talks to everybody.
19:00
Another thing that is very typical, if you go, if you are a
19:05
child or an adult, if you are let's say on a tour in a bus,
19:10
people think all the time. This I did not see anywhere
19:14
else. Only if it's an Israeli tour all
19:19
the time. You think it's a really?
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It's beautiful. Yes, it really.
19:26
Is the boss. It really is.
19:28
It's, it's, it's, it's, it's full of life.
19:31
And I do you think that and I, I've thought about this, I'm
19:35
curious what you think. I feel that maybe because
19:39
there's always so much conflict in Israel that there's more of a
19:43
sense of family and unity because they're always feeling
19:47
like their back is against the wall.
19:49
Whereas in the States, we're very isolated and we don't feel
19:52
the same type of threats in the same way.
19:54
And so, you know, I mean, if things are too peaceful, you
19:57
know, it is up for too long sometimes, you know, we intend
20:00
to bicker like family. You know, like if my siblings
20:02
and I are in the house for too long, we start to fight.
20:05
But if someone else comes up to us, we all get together
20:08
immediately, you know? Do you think it's something like
20:10
that or what do you think? I don't, I don't think so.
20:14
I think it's just character. I'll I'll tell you when I go to
20:22
events, for example, and I am many years in the state.
20:28
Sure, I'm back and forth and I lived in Switzerland in between
20:32
and you're a scientist, you live all over.
20:36
But but when I go to to events, even Jewish event and there is a
20:47
group of Israelis that let's say they bought in in order to talk
20:53
of something automatically I'm going to sit with them.
20:57
It's, it's just automatically there is an attraction to each
21:04
other. And I, I, I think this is how
21:08
the nature developed. Remember there were kibbutzim.
21:12
What is the kibbutz commune? It's you live together.
21:17
This was the basis of building the country where the kibbutzim,
21:22
it's a commune. You eat together, you do
21:24
everything together. So I think it's just developed
21:31
this characteristic. Yeah, it's actually fascinating.
21:34
My, I was just reading my Saba. My, my grandfather wrote a book
21:38
about his childhood, I think, you know, and, and I, I never
21:41
read it all the way through because I wasn't really aware of
21:44
the, the history and the politics and even the geography
21:48
of what he was, of what his family was going through.
21:51
And, and he and I and he said, he mentioned to me that he was
21:54
in a kibbutz. And I thought that I didn't know
21:57
that you lived in Israel. And he said, no, the kibbutz was
21:59
in Germany. He said kibbutz just means, just
22:02
means, you know, commune and, you know, and I think the goal
22:05
was ultimately to end up there. And he said that people would
22:08
end up going to Palestine or after 48, going to Israel.
22:12
But but he said that kibbutz is a kibbutz.
22:15
It could be, you know, and I guess what you're saying to
22:17
reinforce it, it's the DNA of the country.
22:20
Is this community together? Yes.
22:24
Yeah. So can you tell me about
22:25
Weitzman, what it was like when you were there?
22:27
What was? What was it like getting your
22:28
PhD there at the time? Spend a lot of time in Weitzman.
22:32
I hope to be there in the beginning of September too.
22:37
It's just it's Weitzman is not a university, doesn't have
22:43
undergraduate at Weitzman, there is only graduate students
22:48
usually, but for a long time it was only PhD, now it's Master
22:53
and PhD. And Weitzman now for the first
22:57
time will open this year medical school where students will get
23:05
MDPHD, so they will do research too.
23:10
It will be the first year that this medical school will be
23:16
open, but Weitzman is a community first.
23:21
Everybody first. If you were there, you you go in
23:25
through a gate and most of the faculty lives on campus.
23:32
It's like, it's like a big research kibbutz.
23:38
There is theatre, there's concerts, but the research is
23:43
outstanding. And it's an International
23:47
School, so the language is English, and any top scientist
23:53
in the world spends time at the Weitzman Institute.
23:58
I had lectured by so many Nobel laureates when I was a graduate
24:03
student and when I came as a postdoc to Cornell, and I
24:10
realized that many of them only met the Nobel laureates that was
24:16
at Cornell. But never I knew so many Nobel
24:21
laureates because they spend sabbatical advice money and they
24:26
are from all over. They are from Europe, they are
24:29
from everywhere, not just the US.
24:33
So you have even the opportunity to meet the greatest scientist
24:39
in the world, not just in in Israel.
24:44
And the atmosphere is very, very interesting.
24:51
It's the collegiality. It's, it's just a wonderful,
24:57
wonderful place to be in. And it does really wonderful
25:05
research. Sadly now some research were
25:09
suffered was of the ballistic missile from Iran that destroyed
25:16
the whole building of all the life sciences.
25:20
So samples for cancer reasons that were collected for years
25:26
were destroyed. But they will because it's such
25:32
a great at the Weitzman Institute, you see like 24
25:37
hours, the scientist goes to work when they have inspiration.
25:41
It's not a nine to five job. And this is very nice all times
25:48
of the days. Therefore, when I'm in Israel, I
25:51
wanted, I want always to stay at the guest house at the Weitzman
25:57
Institute. And many, many of the scientists
26:01
and Weitzman are involved in my project, the Malta conferences
26:07
where we use science diplomacy. There's a bridge to peace in the
26:11
at least. Yes.
26:13
So I want to talk about that. I'm really excited about that
26:15
because this until you reached out, I've never I've heard of
26:20
obviously scientific conferences, I've heard of
26:22
scientists that were pro peace. I've never heard of the of a
26:28
scientific community gathering together for the purpose of
26:31
World Peace in a formal organization.
26:33
I thought it was so unique and so beautiful and so cool.
26:36
Is unique. I think it's the only one.
26:39
I think it's amazing. How did you how?
26:41
How did it come about? I cared for the American
26:46
Chemical Society for 26 years, the Subcommittee on Scientific
26:52
Freedom and Human Rights, and this was a period with a lot of
26:58
human rights abuses in the Soviet Union, mainly.
27:03
But China came after Tiananmen Square, But I started with the
27:09
Soviet Union. I was going into the Soviet
27:15
Union with a group of scientists.
27:17
We were guest of universities lecturing and after midnight I
27:25
would leave the group and they were asleep and I would go in
27:30
dark alleys where I met dissidents, mainly refuseniks.
27:37
Refuseniks were scientists that wanted to emigrate from the
27:42
Soviet Union and therefore they were fired from their job.
27:46
They were not allowed to work, but then they were blamed that
27:51
they are parasites and many of them were sent to hard labor in
27:56
Siberia and they could not have any contact with scientists.
28:03
It was illegal to bring them scientific material or give them
28:09
seminar. So I would go after midnight and
28:13
meet dark alleys. I would meet several of these
28:18
refuse next, and then we would go to a Dark Ethics where at
28:25
2:00 AM I would give a seminar and distribute scientific
28:31
magazines that I bought with me and collected their resumes and
28:37
CVS so I could work on their behalf when I came back and make
28:44
sure that they can come out to freedom in my that's.
28:48
Extremely dangerous though, no? Surely it's dangerous.
28:52
Why? What made you take that chance I
28:56
made you? What pushed you to take that
28:57
risk? The values I received going up
29:02
in Israel, the way I was brought up, the values that from a very
29:11
young age I was taught to help others.
29:16
But it's very interesting that you say that because I have here
29:21
a part of a letter that one of these people that was in hard
29:27
labour in Siberia and I worked on his behalf and he came to
29:33
Chicago and the first lecture he ever gave in in the US was here
29:41
to the American Chemical Society Chicago section.
29:46
But I was nominated to receive the the Andrei Sakharov Award
29:52
for Human Rights. And he sent a letter on my
29:56
behalf. But I liked a paragraph and I
30:00
want to share it because he said.
30:03
I want to hear it please. He said.
30:07
I often wondered what could make a person living in freedom,
30:12
safety and comfort to fight for someone deprived of that and
30:20
languishing on the other side of the globe.
30:23
I realized that both the far away victim in the American
30:29
Guardian Angel had the same ability to go against it tide.
30:36
And they did for science something which could hardly,
30:42
which could hardly be rationalized in an exhausting
30:49
job of fixing its very foundation, invisible on the
30:58
pages of professional journals, they kept science boss humane
31:05
and humane. Incredible.
31:09
Excuse me. Very emotional.
31:10
Think a lot how it's true because these people suffer
31:17
because they stood up for what they believed in and This is why
31:24
I risked their lives to do what I believed in.
31:28
And I thought he put it in beautiful words.
31:33
You really did did Were you? Were you afraid at any point, or
31:36
did you force yourself to not think about it?
31:40
No, I was not afraid. I'm afraid of mouse, mouse or
31:48
red, but usually not of any kind of people.
31:54
Yeah, yeah. Wow.
31:56
So that's so so that's how that's how the Malta Foundation
31:59
got started. So after September 11, I
32:04
suggested to the board of the American Chemical Society that
32:09
my committee will start in addition concentrate on the
32:13
Middle East. And they said, what do you mean?
32:17
I said I would like my subcommittee to organize a
32:25
conference for scientists from all the countries of the Middle
32:30
East, no exception. Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon,
32:35
Israel, the Palestinian, Jordan, Egypt, everybody under one roof
32:42
for five days with several Nobel laureates.
32:47
We give them a platform to see what unites them, not what
32:52
separates them. We give them a a platform to
32:56
stop demonizing the unknown other.
33:01
And we give them a platform to develop collaboration that no
33:07
one country alone can solve a scientific problem like the
33:15
environment, the nature they don't recognize the lines the
33:19
British put on the map. There is borders.
33:23
So the aqueducts for water go through several countries, clean
33:31
air. If you clean the air only in
33:34
your country and the wind come, the countries are there, no,
33:40
then it doesn't matter. You must work together.
33:44
And in the beginning everybody thought that I'm out of my mind
33:50
because it was the height of the intifada.
33:54
And to explain to you, please, yes, please.
33:58
The Intifada was in the beginning of starting from 2000
34:05
on, and it was uprising by the Palestinian and there were a lot
34:13
of suicide bombs in Israel and restaurant and buses all over.
34:20
And really everybody said that I would.
34:25
People started asking me, will you have insurance?
34:30
He said, well, you have. I said no, I'll find a safe
34:34
place. And we had the first conference
34:39
in Malta because I felt that an island will be safer as a
34:45
mainland #1 and #2 There were very few flights to Malta, Rome,
34:54
Frankfurt, London, and most of the people had to have
35:00
connection. So it took almost a day to fly
35:05
to Malta. My calculation was that it
35:09
wouldn't be worthwhile for a terrorist to waste a whole day
35:15
to fly and kill a lot of Muslims and free Jews.
35:20
And This is why Malta was selected for the 1st and 2nd
35:26
conference. And This is why the name the
35:30
Malta Conferences Foundation and the first two conferences where
35:39
when Malta was not part of the European Union.
35:43
So you do not need a Schengen visa, that is that.
35:49
But then Malta joined the European Union and the visa
35:55
became the number one problem. And I have in my book a tie a
36:01
chapter titled From Mission Impossible to Mission Possible
36:07
because to get a visa to all this group of countries is
36:13
Mission Impossible. Just just for context, I want to
36:16
just, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I just want to add just for
36:18
context, on a much, much less significant scale, on a much
36:23
smaller scale, I have a customer now who called me.
36:26
I sell medical equipment. He called me I believe from
36:29
Syria. He was looking for an ultrasound
36:31
probe for Pediatrics. And I said I'm happy to sell it
36:35
to you. He says, how are you going to
36:36
get it to me? And I said just FedEx or DHL, he
36:40
says, sorry, we were under sanctions.
36:42
I can't, we can't do it that way.
36:43
We have to figure it out. So even something so stupid as
36:45
an $800 ultrasound probe, you know, just shipping is so
36:50
difficult. I can't even imagine getting a
36:52
visa at that time from people from all over these different
36:55
countries to be able to come together like that.
36:57
That must. Wow.
36:59
It's getting worse, not better. And as I said, the whole chapter
37:05
it devoted to the visa issue. By the way, I want to throw you
37:09
my board. Yes, I'm going to put the link
37:11
to it too, so that everyone that everyone that hears it could buy
37:15
the book. I'll put the link on the podcast
37:16
so that everyone can be everyone can buy it.
37:19
And the soft, the soft cover version, right?
37:24
Oh yeah. That's right, it looks.
37:27
Full I didn't see the soft cover.
37:30
I have to order a few, but meanwhile I give this present
37:34
this one. It looks beautiful.
37:36
Buy it. But I have to buy it.
37:38
Really. Yes, I have to buy.
37:41
What do you think they give you for free?
37:42
They give me a small discount but I have to buy it.
37:46
So I want to give it a present. I have to pay and I did not see
37:50
but the people that have the paper back on Zooms I had.
37:55
I gave webinars and everybody had it and they showed me.
37:59
It looked very nice too. I bet.
38:02
Beautiful. It looks beautiful, it's very
38:04
sleek, it's very elegant. So anyway, so the visas.
38:07
So you so you had to get the visas.
38:08
I'll give you a just example on the people from Gaza.
38:14
Yes, there are scientists in Gaza.
38:17
Yes, there are universities in Gaza.
38:20
Yes, there are great people in Gaza.
38:22
So I'll give you an example to bring them to a conference.
38:29
Now they are out of Gaza because I managed to get my people from
38:36
the Malta conference out long ago when Egypt was ready to let
38:44
people come to Egypt only with dual citizenship.
38:49
So they don't stay in Egypt. Egypt doesn't want anybody from
38:53
Gaza to stay there. I got them out and so they don't
38:58
have dual citizenship. So people that don't have young
39:06
children, so they meanwhile stay in Egypt illegally.
39:11
But people with young children, they don't let them register the
39:16
kids to school. So I have one young family.
39:21
And with all the support for the people of Gaza, all the love
39:27
that the world shows them, I spent for the last year
39:32
sleepless nights and long days to try to get for one family
39:39
with two kids. Wonderful family.
39:42
They will be a treasure for every country that will get
39:46
them. Nobody gave me a visa, not Arab
39:50
countries, not European countries, not the very
39:55
progressive Democrats in Congress that I referred to
40:00
them. This is a different story.
40:04
It's so easy to scream from the river to the sea, oh, over the
40:08
Palestinian. But to help is enough.
40:11
And I'm still trying to find the country.
40:16
I'm still working on that. Wow.
40:19
So now I don't know how I'll be able, if Egypt will let them fly
40:25
out from there, it will be really a problem.
40:29
But before, when they were in Gaza, Gaza has two borders, one
40:36
with Egypt, one with Israel. The border with Egypt is
40:41
completely closed. They cannot cross there.
40:45
It was even closed when Gaza was part of Egypt from 481948 till
40:53
1967. Gaza belonged to Egypt like the
40:58
West Bank belonged to Jordan. All the people that lived in the
41:03
West Bank got Jordanian passport and Jordanian citizenship.
41:09
The people that lived in Gaza did not and could not even go
41:15
into Egypt. So to fly through Egypt is out.
41:20
The other possibility to fly from Jordan.
41:24
But the Gaza doesn't have a border with Jordan.
41:26
Yeah, how do they get there? Because Israel is there in.
41:30
Oh, so they go through Israel to Jordan?
41:32
So, so easy to get them through Israel.
41:36
I They could ride on a racket because the racket they could
41:41
take a ride. But I used to have to work
41:47
several months with the Foreign Ministry of Israel to get them a
41:54
permit to enter Israel and then drive all the way to the north,
42:01
entering Gaza, crossing drive all the way to the north to the
42:06
Alambi Bridge and crossing to Jordan.
42:10
The Foreign Ministry in Israel was very helpful to me.
42:15
For the last 20, we start to talk.
42:20
For the last 24 years, extremely happy.
42:23
I always got a permit. It used to work like that.
42:28
You have now a window of three hours, usually around midnight.
42:32
Tell your people to come there, the car will wait for them and
42:38
take them from Eris Crossing to Allenby.
42:44
But then they need the. Three hour drive.
42:48
Probably, yeah, three hours drive, but then they need a visa
42:54
to cross to enter Jordan and suddenly Jordan many times said
43:03
we don't give visa to people from Gaza to enter Jordan.
43:07
So then I had to fight with the Jordanian authorities to let
43:12
them come in and this took a long time.
43:16
So practically it's a full time job was just the visa for that
43:22
visa for Syrian is a much more complicated.
43:26
No country wants to let Syrian coming.
43:29
I hope now it will change. And then there is Iran where a
43:36
lot of countries don't for sure not the European Union and other
43:40
countries. So it's it's describes in my
43:45
book. It's such a hassle.
43:49
And the other challenge is that we have to waste the money for
43:54
everybody because, you know, in the in the Middle East, in order
44:01
to be successful, everybody is equal.
44:04
The Palestinian always tell me it's the only conference that we
44:08
don't have to hear about our poor Palestinian brothers that
44:13
could not pay. Here, nobody pays.
44:16
We are equal and everybody likes it.
44:20
No accompanying members. Leave your spouses at home.
44:27
The Americans in the beginning fought this ruling.
44:32
No, you go to a place like Malta is beautiful, They wanted to get
44:36
their spouse, but as bad as chemist.
44:41
You have to understand if you dilute the solution, the
44:45
interaction is much slower. We need a fast reaction.
44:49
We cannot dilute it with more people, no company member.
44:54
Another reason is what few countries could be able to pay
44:59
for their spouses and other countries could not.
45:03
Then we lose the equality. So it was the equality and the
45:08
dilution that we left them out. And then you have to recruit the
45:15
Nobel lawyers. Nobel lawyers usually get a big
45:20
on a radio. Yeah.
45:22
Not only that, they don't get many of them pay pay their own
45:27
airline. Wow.
45:29
Because they are devoted to the 'cause they do it for the cause.
45:34
So. How many people are at these
45:35
conferences? Usually a couple of dozen or a
45:39
couple of 100 or less. 100. 100 limit.
45:44
Beautiful. Because even that 80 is the
45:48
ideal. Because 80, then everybody
45:51
manages to know each other and it's already a little bit
45:56
harder, but there are more, more people that want to participate
46:01
and it's how to to select. So it's 100 and we have already
46:10
700 people in our network. 17 Nobel laureates already
46:18
participated. Many of them participated 23456
46:24
times or more because they believe in the cause.
46:30
The Malta Conferences Foundation is the only platform in the
46:35
world that brings together all the participants from all the
46:41
Middle East, and they're the same move.
46:45
And there was efforts to imitate us.
46:51
Even Elie Wiesel tried, but after three conferences and he
46:57
was loaded with money to do it. But after three conferences he
47:03
did not succeed and he did not get all the countries and it
47:10
stopped. But Malta is going on.
47:13
The first one was in 2003. Can I ask, and I guess, I guess
47:21
it's almost human nature that in a time of conflict, I, I would
47:25
imagine, especially during the intifada that a lot of people
47:29
wouldn't be interested in going to try and, you know, reach out
47:33
to Palestinians and Syrians and Iranians.
47:36
And what I mean, what first of all, what made you in particular
47:42
look for that at that point in time?
47:44
And, and was that, and what was the pushback when you were
47:47
trying to do that at that point in time?
47:48
Because I think the context is really important.
47:50
The point in time is. Super important.
47:51
Explain to you something. We always say science diplomacy
47:56
can succeed where other kind of diplomacies cannot.
48:02
Science diplomacy doesn't see religion, doesn't see borders,
48:07
doesn't see language, doesn't see culture.
48:11
It's science, and all the scientists share the same thing.
48:19
I always like to say that as scientists from Bethlehem, PA.
48:25
And I'm very happy that they have a Bethlehem there so I can
48:28
use it is from Bethlehem, PA and the scientists from the real
48:35
Bethlehem on the West Bank can communicate to each other
48:40
without knowing each other language.
48:43
And This is why science is different.
48:47
And I did not have any problem to persuade the scientists to
48:55
come. There was nobody that was afraid
49:00
to do it. And you know, it's, it's a
49:05
special conference and, but the most important thing is that we
49:14
keep everything confidential till after the conference.
49:20
People used to tell me, oh, I looked at your website and he
49:25
doesn't have the dates of the upcoming conference.
49:28
It has the dates of the conference.
49:31
That was I said, you're right. You will see the dates of the
49:36
conference that is coming up now only after.
49:39
The concert, so you don't want it to be open like that.
49:45
Listen, there are people that when we were in Morocco, we had
49:52
demonstration of, there is a small group of Palestinian in
49:57
Morocco, very militant and there, there were no detectors
50:04
entering the metal detectors entering the hotel.
50:08
And suddenly two days later they heard about that and the
50:15
demonstration came and immediately the the metal
50:19
detector appeared in the front of the hotel.
50:24
So we try not to make it public till after the conference.
50:34
It's really, really beautiful. It's really, really amazing.
50:37
So what about your and after aside from Malta, of course,
50:42
which is a full time job, obviously, the way that you're
50:45
describing it, I can't even imagine, you know, I get.
50:49
The money is a full time job because every penny we raise
50:54
goes to the conference, so there is no money to pay a fundraiser
50:59
to. Raise the money.
51:01
Yeah, yeah, yeah. What what about what about
51:04
chemistry? Have you, did you, do you
51:06
continue to study chemistry or do you, what's, what do you do
51:10
with? Chemistry continues to be
51:12
involved in education chemistry. I did research on secondary
51:18
isotope effect and I'm not going to explain it.
51:22
No problem. And it will take too long, but
51:26
then I believe that science education is the human rights
51:30
that belong to all. And Prince Hassa and His Royal
51:34
Highness Prince Hassan of Jordan.
51:37
King Hussein Bader always quotes me when he gives the talk.
51:42
Really I. Know very well because he's
51:47
participants in Malta. So I believe it's a human right.
51:53
And you know the half percent of the population that will become
51:57
scientists. It doesn't matter how you teach
52:01
because they will become scientists with the worst
52:05
teachers in the world. But the rest of them have to
52:09
understand science in order to live in our society this day.
52:14
And I always say if we will leave them behind, we will form
52:18
A2 class society separated not by royalty but by knowledge of
52:24
science and technology. So the the point is to find a
52:31
way to attract everybody to take science.
52:35
And I developed a way to teach science through art, music,
52:41
dance, drama. Rap.
52:43
Really. Animation.
52:46
There is a huge chapter in the book about that in examples and
52:52
it became very popular. And in order to show that it's
52:58
real science, I had a NSF National Science Foundation
53:03
grant together with Princeton University that we developed the
53:07
same class with my methods. We called it from ozone to oil
53:13
spill, chemistry, the environment, the new for their
53:17
non science majors. And every year my class that was
53:22
mainly minorities flew to Princeton for a joint symposium.
53:29
And all the media will cover it all the time.
53:31
And they used to call it the meeting of two cultures and it
53:36
was 2 cultures. It was very, very interesting.
53:40
Then it was adopted all over the world in different places.
53:45
I, by myself adopted the town of Soweto.
53:50
I received the first international award in the New
53:54
Democratic South Africa. It was international award.
54:00
So while I was there, I adopted this town of Soweto.
54:05
It's the only town that in one straight to Nobel laureate live
54:10
Bishop Tudu and Mandela. So I adopted their school
54:17
district and I lectured there and I worked with the teachers
54:23
to teach there. The same way I was in Kenya, in
54:28
many universities and I was in a lot of countries, few for human
54:34
rights, few for other reasons. And it became very, very
54:42
successful, especially with underprivileged students.
54:47
I worked with homeless kids that I taught them through Dance at
54:52
Night in Dance Studio. I was the head of the science
54:56
institute so I could bring my faculty and we all were teaching
55:01
them through Dance at Night. There's a picture where I sit on
55:05
the floor and they are all around me and everybody has a
55:08
periodic table on the floor. And many of them went to college
55:15
and two continued for a PhD in biochemistry.
55:19
I taught prisoners like that and they became very successful and
55:25
it became a very successful way to teach people that otherwise
55:29
would not come close to that. And there are a lot of examples
55:34
for that in my book. For if there are teachers in
55:39
your audience, I don't know who's your audience, they would
55:43
be very interested in that. And we have a YouTube, as a
55:49
matter of fact, with a lot of the videos that show examples.
55:55
How theatre student hope to play like Romeo and Juliet on love.
56:02
So between sodium and chlorine to foam table salt.
56:07
And there are the kids dancing the periodic table and the state
56:15
of matters and other dancers. Depletion of the ozone layer so
56:20
that we have all that on YouTube.
56:24
Can we have to check that out? I'm going to also, by the way,
56:28
I'm going to find that link and I'll post it also with the
56:30
episode. So I'll have the link to the
56:31
book and the YouTube video for for YouTube videos for people to
56:34
see. Do you when, when you go to
56:37
these different countries, do you reach out to them or they
56:40
find you or how does that work? I'm invited.
56:44
You're invited. How do they find you?
56:45
How do they come across? How do they, I guess just from
56:48
your conference and? How did they find me?
56:52
Yeah, I mean, if I if I lived in Kenya, I wouldn't know how to
56:54
find. I wouldn't know how to find
56:56
Doctor Safa Lerman, you know, necessarily with that, you know,
56:58
too easily, you know, I mean, unless I I wouldn't even know
57:01
how it. Happened people publish and
57:04
there are even today on the every day on the e-mail there is
57:10
some group called academia that they want me to become a member.
57:15
But every day they give me the list of the people that all
57:21
quote my papers or just read my papers and describe it.
57:26
And can't believe that every day there are people that are trying
57:32
to adopt this method and they tell me that they they are
57:36
reading my papers so. That's amazing.
57:40
That's amazing. Did you, I read online and I
57:44
was, I did a quick Google before you and I were talking before
57:47
you and I spoke yesterday and I saw online that you prevented
57:51
executions before. Can you tell me a little bit
57:55
about that? It's part of working on human
57:58
rights, no? I, I would imagine, but I, I
58:01
would also imagine that as a chemist, I wouldn't think that
58:03
that's my job as a chemist to, to do that.
58:07
I might say that it's not my job, it's my conviction.
58:13
Yes. Can you tell me some stories
58:14
about that? I just read to you about one
58:19
person that I saved what he wrote there.
58:22
But yes, when it was in Libya, when they decided that the
58:30
doctor and five nurses spread aids in the hospital while they
58:37
treated the patients and they gave them death penalties.
58:42
And I mobilized like crazy a lot of the human rights committees
58:50
around the world and, and wrote and fought and did everything I
58:59
could in my in my power and in all my connections and, and they
59:09
changed it and they let them. By the way, the doctor was a
59:13
Palestinian. So this shows you how the world
59:18
is crazy. Here I am an Israeli, but I am
59:24
fighting and spending my time and life and money to save a
59:31
Palestinian Dr. or to get the Palestinian from Gaza that are
59:38
from the Malta conference out of Gaza.
59:42
So it was not any Palestinian living in the US, it was not the
59:49
squad that is in the Congress here, the led by Rashida Talib
1:00:00
and AOC and all this form. Yes, and I'm none of them walked
1:00:11
and taking people out to safety. So it's an Israeli that they did
1:00:18
and this shows you how crazy it is the world.
1:00:22
It also shows you how cheap talk is.
1:00:24
It shows you how easy it is to talk and how much harder it is
1:00:27
to do anything. But the problem is that the
1:00:30
world is very impressed with talkers and it's it always says
1:00:36
a squeaking will gets attention. That the will that does it's job
1:00:41
and does very well never gets attention.
1:00:45
That's right. But what is going on?
1:00:49
You know, And this tells you that humanity is above all the
1:00:56
hatreds and the division that are being forced on us.
1:01:02
Yeah, and you think it's being forced or not?
1:01:04
I think so too, but. It's being forced.
1:01:08
So it's being forced. If you have a New York Time
1:01:12
magazine, New York Time newspaper that shows a picture
1:01:17
of a young child, skinny like hell, but doesn't show his
1:01:26
brother that is in the same picture, four years old, very
1:01:31
well. Fed doesn't cut that out, shows
1:01:34
that. And look what Israel is doing.
1:01:37
And then has to apologize because the child has a genetic
1:01:41
disease that causes him to look like that.
1:01:45
So then they apologize, but they don't show you the picture of
1:01:51
the hostage that just the the Hamas release of the hostage
1:01:59
that is all skin and bones that cannot even move.
1:02:04
You did not see this picture on the New York Times.
1:02:08
So if you believe in the New York Times, you don't get the
1:02:15
true information. It's a very selective
1:02:18
information, very and for sure social media is very selective.
1:02:25
But this is what's great about science, that the science and
1:02:30
the scientists believe in the truth and don't use the science
1:02:37
in for propaganda or different political reasons.
1:02:44
We hope that not always people listen to scientists.
1:02:49
Look what's happening now that suddenly all the research on
1:02:53
vaccines that should save millions of people was cut
1:02:59
because somebody that is not a scientist and has some ideas not
1:03:05
based on science decided that this research is not important.
1:03:12
Well, I, yeah, I would also, I mean, I think that in today, in
1:03:16
particular in 2025, I think that a lot of faith and a lot of
1:03:21
institutions, especially when you hear stories like The New
1:03:24
York Times or you hear stories about like Covic or you hear
1:03:28
story, you know, you hear stories about different things
1:03:30
that that happened that are clearly corrupt, that people
1:03:33
don't know what to believe or not anymore.
1:03:35
And everything just gets thrown out, you know, and that, and
1:03:38
right now there's just very little faith, I think that
1:03:40
people have in in leaders and institutions.
1:03:44
And they say, you know, forget scientists, forget doctors,
1:03:47
forget anything, you know, like they're all lying to us anyway.
1:03:50
Why should we believe them? Forget journalists, they're all
1:03:51
lying. Forget the newspaper, they're
1:03:53
all lying. But then you don't know what's,
1:03:55
you don't know where to go. You don't know what's real.
1:03:57
You don't know what's not. And it's I think that that's the
1:04:00
root of a lot of the issue. I don't think it's just that
1:04:03
it's pure deceit or pure deception.
1:04:06
I think that it's a manifestation of people feeling
1:04:10
let down. I don't know if this is the
1:04:14
reason or what is the reason, but I think that education is
1:04:23
suffering for many, many years. And what a very educated person
1:04:31
can look and decide if it's true or not, if it's logical or not,
1:04:38
because he or she can use their critical thinking.
1:04:43
If you don't teach all that, you don't teach logic, you don't
1:04:47
teach critical thinking, you down the education.
1:04:51
No, it's at the bottom, makes its way up.
1:04:53
It goes all the way up and you believe in what somebody
1:04:59
persuaded you to believe. Yeah.
1:05:02
And actually, I think that's why I think in a big cultural
1:05:06
problem in the States is that teachers that if you tell
1:05:09
someone you're a teacher, you almost look down on, you know,
1:05:12
so you tell someone you're a teacher, they're like, oh, come
1:05:14
on. Like, you know, you're not a
1:05:16
lawyer, You're not, you're not an investment banker, you know,
1:05:18
like, what are you even doing with yourself?
1:05:20
You know, And I think that's, that's heartbreaking because the
1:05:22
teachers are responsible for, for the future of critical
1:05:25
thinking. This was people don't understand
1:05:28
that the teacher is responsible for your children.
1:05:32
Yeah. They will dumb down your
1:05:35
children. They will never achieve
1:05:38
anything. Yes.
1:05:40
Like when I lived in Switzerland for a while, I did research at
1:05:44
the Swiss Polytechnic and the teachers were the number one in
1:05:51
the social status because everybody understood that they
1:05:56
are responsible for your children.
1:05:59
It's interesting when you look for a care daycare to put your
1:06:04
baby in, you check for the best daycare, the best person that is
1:06:12
there to take care of your child.
1:06:14
But once the child goes into school.
1:06:18
Forget about. It.
1:06:22
I don't know what it is, but I I think, but I I believe that
1:06:25
maybe I. Was never respected.
1:06:28
In the US it's your bank account is the number one and education
1:06:35
is where. In Europe education is the
1:06:39
number one. In Switzerland you can be a
1:06:42
multi billionaire. If you don't have education, you
1:06:45
will never reach the high society.
1:06:48
Because So what? Yeah.
1:06:50
I was going to ask what cultures, what other cultures
1:06:52
have you experienced or countries?
1:06:54
Do they, do they value teachers or do they, or is that something
1:06:57
that's considered prestigious? Do you what have you?
1:06:59
Have you visited places like that?
1:07:02
Some European countries, even in Israel, is the problem used to
1:07:07
be valuable. They're trying to change it.
1:07:11
And even the Weitzman Institute has a lot of program for
1:07:17
teachers to try to give them the the tools they need to teach.
1:07:25
But somehow people forget that the teacher is probably one of
1:07:32
the most important profession we have because they are
1:07:37
responsible for the brain of your child.
1:07:41
Yeah, I think that and, and perhaps one of the reasons is
1:07:46
because, and I've noticed, I, I noticed this about the Western
1:07:49
culture in general. It's very focused on today and
1:07:52
very, it has very short memory and does not look very far into
1:07:56
the future. All you worry about is right
1:07:58
now, you know, You don't think about the past.
1:08:00
You don't think. About the future many tests
1:08:03
children don't need so many tests they need to.
1:08:06
Learn how. To be tested all the time.
1:08:09
Yes. This is why I develop the way I
1:08:12
develop. I talk to my students.
1:08:15
I want you to have to waste your time and sit down and write
1:08:20
this. Yes, yes, yes.
1:08:21
Yes, I know you show me your knowledge anywhere you want.
1:08:26
You don't have to wait on this test.
1:08:29
The number of tests are unbelievable and the teacher has
1:08:33
to teach to the test because if the student don't do well on the
1:08:39
test, the teacher is not good. So the teacher teaches to the
1:08:43
test and not knowledge and this is crazy.
1:08:48
Crazy. I'm AI teach high school.
1:08:51
I teach high school English part time and one and one thing that
1:08:55
I have to catch myself doing is a student.
1:08:57
If I, if I have an assignment and a student will ask me to do
1:09:00
something a certain way, for some reason, my immediate
1:09:05
response is usually to try to say no.
1:09:07
And I have to stop and think, why am I saying no?
1:09:10
Is the kid trying to express the knowledge that he knows in his
1:09:13
own way? And I'm saying no because it's
1:09:15
not what I wanted? Or is the kid just trying to be
1:09:17
lazy and get out of doing the assignment?
1:09:18
You know, and, but I think that you need to be on your toes.
1:09:21
And I think that, you know, I think that a lot of teachers,
1:09:24
and again, also, if it's not prestigious, who's going to want
1:09:28
to do it? You know, you have to be almost,
1:09:30
you have to practically be a martyr to be a teacher for a
1:09:33
full time. You know, and you have to be
1:09:35
willing to, to give up on, on a comfortable salary.
1:09:39
You have to be willing to give up on social status.
1:09:42
You have to be willing to, to accept the fact that people are
1:09:45
going to pretty much look down on you.
1:09:46
Who wants that? So you're not going to get the
1:09:48
cream of the crop being teachers anyway.
1:09:50
At this point, with the way that this is, that society works,
1:09:53
it's I don't know what to do. 100% but but this problem is
1:09:59
being discussed already for so many years and nothing is being
1:10:05
done. Nothing is being done.
1:10:07
Do you have any ideas? Oh, I have a lot of ideas.
1:10:11
But you know, there was a period that Chicago had a wonderful CEO
1:10:19
for the school, Paul Weathers. And really Chicago made a huge
1:10:24
jump. And I had millions of dollars in
1:10:29
grants to build STEM academies in the worst high school that
1:10:35
was high schools that had drugs and gangs and the students did
1:10:42
nothing. And we came with this academies
1:10:45
and suddenly it became a high school of choice for students.
1:10:51
And it changed everything. And and I had money to have
1:10:59
workshops for the teachers to show them how to teach with my
1:11:05
methods of teaching. It did Miracle We ran works so
1:11:09
for the parents, but especially parents.
1:11:13
Amazing. That don't know anything in
1:11:17
science, so we show them different things that they can
1:11:21
help their children. So when you do all that.
1:11:25
I'm writing that down to implement by the way, I want to
1:11:28
do that. We made a huge change, but then
1:11:32
came in your CEO. Forget about it.
1:11:37
Forget about it. And this is the problem.
1:11:39
This is the problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:11:42
So it. Did miracles, miracles.
1:11:46
There was a high school that the number of students was so small,
1:11:52
only few hundreds, because it has such a big reputation.
1:11:56
This is where we built our Academy and you can't believe
1:12:01
it, a school that suddenly you had to select the students to
1:12:05
come in. Yeah, wow, Wow.
1:12:08
And then you know what happens? It gets built up and then
1:12:11
someone new comes in or it gets all this, you know, you get a
1:12:13
whole new bunch of staff that at the top and then they change it
1:12:16
all up. This is the problem with
1:12:19
education. Wow, wow.
1:12:22
You give me a lot to think about especially.
1:12:24
Yeah, because I care very much about I I really do.
1:12:27
And you know, I always say if I was able to make if I was able
1:12:29
to really make a living and I could support my family
1:12:31
teaching, I would teach 20 hours a day.
1:12:34
You know, I mean, I really would.
1:12:35
I I love it. I think it's one of the most
1:12:37
important things in the entire world.
1:12:38
And you know, I, I and I just tried and I and I and I love
1:12:45
every minute that I have an opportunity to really pursue it.
1:12:48
But it's, you know, it's I really, it's very important to
1:12:53
me and it breaks my heart that it's not, it's not more heavily
1:12:55
emphasized. It really does.
1:12:58
Yeah. Yeah.
1:12:59
So how long did it take you to write your memoir?
1:13:03
Oh it took too long because my husband got cancer when I was
1:13:10
writing it and it slows things down at the end.
1:13:16
The book is dedicated to him and I added one chapter about him
1:13:22
because he used to call himself AP Accompanying person because
1:13:29
he used to make fun. This goes to what you mother
1:13:34
told you when you talk to her about being a woman, a
1:13:38
scientist. He used to come with me to he's
1:13:41
economist, but was he passed away from the cancer.
1:13:46
But he used to come with me and to conferences all over the
1:13:53
world and people would show them him the reaction and he would
1:13:57
say I'm not the chemist, she's the chemist, not matter.
1:14:03
They must continue to talk to him.
1:14:07
It used to be hilarious and don't understand the word.
1:14:12
She is the chemist. Dr. Yeah, it's so funny.
1:14:19
Chapter titled The accompanying member.
1:14:24
That's really beautiful. That's really beautiful.
1:14:26
But yeah, wow, wow, wow, wow. Amazing, amazing.
1:14:30
It's really incredible. So when's the Oh yes, I can't
1:14:34
even ask you when the next one is.
1:14:35
I don't want to talk about the next one, but what's, what gives
1:14:38
you some hope for the future? What gives you some?
1:14:42
You know, I love that question and I've heard a lot of times, I
1:14:45
hear it asked a lot and I don't think it's, I don't think it's
1:14:47
really authentically asked enough.
1:14:48
What do you like? What do you really think that
1:14:51
What are you hopeful about? I'm hopeful that more people
1:14:57
with all these podcasts in the book will understand that
1:15:04
everybody can contribute to make the planet a better place.
1:15:09
It's not beyond every person. If I could do it, everybody
1:15:17
could do it, and my book is practically calling for action.
1:15:25
I used to tell my students always before you go to sleep,
1:15:32
think if you did something good for somebody else and if you did
1:15:37
something good for somebody else, you had a very good day.
1:15:41
And I always got my students involved with me in things that
1:15:48
I could involve them, like arms control and disarmament, the
1:15:53
human rights, because I wanted them to be part of all these
1:16:00
issues. And I've my hope is, you know,
1:16:05
Nature magazine is the best thing.
1:16:09
They are the best scientific magazine in the world.
1:16:13
It's in England and they did a review on my book, but then they
1:16:19
had they published a few a paragraph from articles that
1:16:30
they want to emphasize. And in the middle of this
1:16:35
newsletter, they have Quote of the Day.
1:16:38
So one day, the quote of the day was for my book.
1:16:42
And they picked up the quote that I said, you know, in order
1:16:46
to have an atom bomb, you need to have enough critical mass of
1:16:52
uranium to start the chain reaction.
1:16:57
So I used this sentence and I wrote in my book that my hope is
1:17:03
to have a critical math of scientists that will start a
1:17:07
chain reaction for peace, and they pick this up as the quarter
1:17:13
of the day and then advertise my book after that.
1:17:17
It was a free, wonderful advertisement.
1:17:20
And so I still hope that I will still see many people that
1:17:29
decide to join to make the world a better place.
1:17:34
I hope so too. Well, I, I, I, I know that I'm
1:17:38
going to do after, especially after talking to you, I'm going
1:17:40
to do my best to try to continue pushing your book and continue
1:17:43
pushing these ideas because I think that it's such a wonderful
1:17:48
and, and so unique. I don't think I've ever, I've
1:17:51
never heard of anything like your story.
1:17:53
And I think that it's, it's so magnificent And, and just here,
1:17:57
you know, hearing you talk reminds me of just a different
1:18:00
world that I hope that that I hope reminds people of what the
1:18:05
world could be like, you know, of what the world could be, you
1:18:08
know, like what tomorrow could be.
1:18:10
And I think that it's really, really special.
1:18:13
I really, really appreciate everything that you've done.
1:18:15
And I I really appreciate your time.
1:18:19
Thank you for so much for connecting.
1:18:21
I really, you know, I hope to be in touch.
1:18:22
And when you're in Florida next, please let me know.
1:18:25
And we're gonna and and and this and this is you.
1:18:29
You're living and have lived and are continuing to live a truly
1:18:33
beautiful and very, very special life.
1:18:35
And it really, it's it's amazing able to talk to you.
1:18:37
Thank you. Thank you very much.
1:18:40
This is such a pleasure. We're going to be in touch.
1:18:42
Take Care now. Bye bye, Doctor.
1:18:43
Bye.