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Dungeons & Dragons · The Pork Roll, Egg, And Cheese Podcast

• Shamus: Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the pork roll egg and cheese podcast. My name is Seamus. Hey. And today we're going to be talking to two of our buddies about the phenomenon that is known as Dungeons and Dragons. Tom, Christine, how you guys doing today? All right. Herbie: And I am Herb- Tom: fantastic. Christine: Doing good. Shamus: Here's a couple of quick facts about D &D for some of you people out there. It's a role playing game. It's actually credited for being the first ever role playing game. and it was created by Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson in 1974. It was created as an expansion pack for the medieval war game Chainmail, but evolved into its own game and it originally sold for $10, which today would be $64 and was considered too expensive for its time. How did you get into the whole D &D thing? Because I know like lately, like you went to Gen Con and we'll get into that later, but what actually attracted you to the game or when did you start playing or just give us a little history on it. Actually first tell us a little bit about yourself, both of you. Tom: Hi, I'm Tom. I've been friends of ⁓ Herbie and Seamus for many, many, many years. More like brothers and friends. Yeah, sir. ⁓ Christine: Hi, I'm Christine. Herbie: Love you guys. Love you too, man. Christine: I've actually known Seamus since we were kids. She lived down the street from somebody that I consider my cousin. And we would go and visit Babay in Riverside, and that's where Seamus grew up. And so we would hang out and play jailbreak and stuff like that. Yep. Shamus: Yep. Yeah, I've known you longer than I've known both of these guys. Tom: I can't publicly disclose the antics that we did in our younger years. ⁓ Christine: Yeah. Shamus: No, but they were fun stories and nobody ever got hurt. So yeah. Christine: Power! ⁓ Shamus: Yeah, there's been some nights. Herbie: ⁓ yeah, a lot of drunken ventures, Tom: Don't know what you're talking about. Shamus: So when did you start playing D &D, Tom: really it started back when I was very very obviously was in nineteen seventies type game it came out it was something that ⁓ we dabbled in a little bit ⁓ We tended to kind of do a hybrid. it was raining outside, we'd be inside playing kind of a D &D type adventure. ⁓ If it wasn't raining outside, we'd be outside kind of role playing out in the woods, know, the real life version of it. You always wanted to be a knight, a wizard, know, something. Hell yeah. Things kids dream about. Herbie: Yeah, pick it up a big stick. Shamus: Well, true when it was originally created, it was only only featured three classes of characters, the fighting man, the magic user and the cleric. Tom: Yeah, it was kind of rudimentary at the time. has since evolved greatly. ⁓ Shamus: It could pretty much be whatever you want now, right? Tom: Yeah, mean within limits, know, the version we play now, it's what they call a home brew. A friend of mine named Kevin who has been doing it since its inception in, know, 40 something years ago. He's developed his own world, his own rules. It's a rules light system, so it's not so crunchy. it's more about the role playing itself then if this happens what does the rule book say you have to do we don't play that way it's more about rulings than which makes it more interactive it's more based on the players at the table making the world come alive ⁓ we can decide at any point that we want to venture into a village or go into a cave where there might be an owlbear or some crazy fictional creature. That one day we might be doing more role playing as it is related to warfare and fighting and that kind of stuff. Another day we could be doing more political type things where we're establishing a keep and a hold and we're trying to... and ⁓ Shamus: It was pretty. Herbie: Do you think like sometimes with that the old way it was like with a lot more dice and stuff like that you think that kind of like slowed it down and yours is a little bit more sped up where like actions and movements and stuff? Tom: still quite a bit of dice the way we play. The dice do more of the deciding when there's no... easy way to decide. ⁓ The DM will make rulings and sometimes you just have to rely on the dice. That's kind of the fair uninhibited way of doing it. Instead of like the current kind of 5e additions, things like that. Like I said, a lot of times you find them stopping, flipping through a book, trying to find the answer and it's just not organic. And you know, we play in a way that sometimes the DM just makes a decision and whether we like it or not that's the decision we move on yeah that's what keeps that's cool Shamus: Sometimes when you drift off your... Sorry, sorry. No, you're good. Just pull closer to you. So I'm assuming you started playing when you met Tom? Christine: No, actually, our son started playing first. ⁓ Our son had met another kid through karate that the whole family was doing, and he had gone to our DM, Kevin. ⁓ He had gone to their house. And he had played a game and then I believe Kevin invited you. Shamus: A DM is Dungeon Master. Christine: Tom, correct? And then they decided to invite the wives. They wanted to get myself and Kevin's wife involved. And so we did it. And just to kind of be a part of the family and bring the family together, ⁓ me and the other wife, Sonia, decided to join a game that was just for the family. ⁓ So our two families played together. this one game and then kind of got pulled into another game at one point. Every once in a while we play, we've kind of taken a hiatus, but did go to ⁓ Gen Con twice. now. Yeah, I've gone twice, but it's definitely more Tom and our sons. Tom: you went twice. Yeah, it's really something that Michael and I have kind of connected on. So like I said, I played a lot, you know, played these kinds of games when I was very young. But I stopped, you know, at some point as I got older, and it wasn't until Michael was introduced to it. And I got invited into his kind of introduction to it that I kind of became something for. Yeah, you know, if I. And then, you know, having that. Herbie: Yeah, reignited the fire, Shamus: song stuff. Tom: experience with Michael and occasionally with Devon as well. ⁓ Devon will come play from time to time in some of our campaigns. ⁓ So it's a nice connection we have. we have the family game that, like Christine said, is on hiatus where the wives are involved and Kevin's son is involved and Michael and me. Christine: Devon's our other son. Tom: and we we haven't played that one quite some time but michael and i have a separate campaign that he and i just go we should people kevin and adventure together that's gonna happen i have together and we don't want every month or two just got the eve like today in my email today the next ones on april twenty fifths michael and i'll be getting together and you know we have a lot of fun Herbie: Some of the campaigns can last a while. Shamus: as I would say, they're one of the things that came across because I do a lot of research for these pops and the longest running game has been 45 years. It started in 1982 by a guy named Rob Wardhan in Canada and that was back in 23. I don't know if it's still going on. So, I mean, add another what three years to that if he still plants that's 48 years. Tom: So keep in mind, Kevin started developing his world, I don't know the exact amount of years, but we'll say 40 years ago. He's a diehard lifelong, I mean, he'll have D &D on his tombstone when he goes. ⁓ And we don't look at it as the campaign will ever end. We might lose people in the campaign, but the campaign goes on. So if one of your characters ends up... meeting their demise, you know, another one gets introduced and he starts back at level one and if he makes it, he makes it or she makes it, she makes it. But the world doesn't go away if the party dies. There's always a chance of a TPK, a total party kill, you know, you get into battle and you just all roll shitty that day, you all die. Shamus: No, it's just like regular life. Christine: I'm Tom: But the world goes on. yes, hearing that the longest running campaign is 40 something years makes sense. The campaign goes on, the people just change. Shamus: Explain like you just said when you roll the apparently there is a ton of different side of dice and different shapes and stuff. The most popular being the 20 side to D 20. Tom: 20 is is vastly known as the majority of your decision making is done with the 20. There's percentage dies, which are your D 10s, things like that. There's a D 12 D six. Yeah, I keep fading from the mic. Forward. I like having eye contact when I talk. So yeah, the die makes decisions and typically most most D and D DMS most of the the iterations of the game the higher your role tends to be the better you do we have played a few versions of the game at gen con where lower roles are your winning roles but either way the dice the dice makes to make decisions that aren't typically easily decided ⁓ Shamus: Okay. Herbie: better out. Christine: And this is the part I have the hardest thing with is remembering what dies I need to for all and which die is what. Shamus: Each one represents something different, right? Or it could. Tom: Well, it could. So the D20 is typically if you have to roll a check or you have to roll to succeed or not succeed at something, typically the D20 is the one you use. Percentage dies are exactly that. If you need to figure a percentage of something, it does that for you. Sometimes you use a D12 because that determines, you know, try and think of an example if you're fishing, know, well, now that's more percentage. You you roll a percentage die and it tells you what kind of fish you're catching. ⁓ So different dies. Christine: But you also roll a D20 to see if actually are. Tom: Successful. Yeah, so typically your smaller denomination dies come into play when you're say you're in battle and you need to figure out how much damage you're causing to something. You would roll a d20 first. So say I'm a knight and I'm swinging a sword. Okay. Swinging it Seamus deogher. Okay. And I have to roll a d20 and I have to roll a certain number or higher to be able to strike you with my sword. Christine: because your DM also makes a roll and he's rolling for whoever you're attacking. Shamus: He's rolling for me the ogre. Christine: And you don't get to see it. So you don't know what he's rolled. That's done behind his hand. So you don't know what he's rolled and what you need to... So all he'll tell you, he'll roll. You roll and you're like, okay, I just rolled 13. You may think, okay, was that good enough? Or was that not good enough? And you won't know because he's just going to roll it and he'll be hit, no hit. and you don't know what Herbie: like. Shamus: because only roll once and you gotta, or does he keep rolling too? Tom: every round until somebody dies or runs. Christine: . So unless you get like a nat 20, which is a natural 20, you'll never know like what you really needed to get unless he decides to tell you after you killed it, he'll tell you, ⁓ well, this is what you needed to get the whole time. So it makes a little bit of just not knowing. Tom: So once you succeed in that first roll to see if I actually strike you or if I'm a magic user, if my spell works on you, then you have to roll some other denomination of die that delineates the damage done to you. So I might be swinging a broadsword. and I might get to roll 3D6, three six sided dice and you add them up and that's the damage I've done. Now I can do three points of damage or can do 18 points. Three points means I might've just grazed you and you got a you know, I shaved your beard for you. Three 18 or three sixes, you know, that's 18. I've done some significant damage to you. Christine: depending on how many damage points you have to do. Tom: Right, so and different weapons, you know, we have a four-sided dice. If you're using a small butter knife, you're only gonna roll a d4 because you're not gonna be able to inflict massive damage with a butter knife versus a broadsword. So that's kind of how the die are used in the game. The way we play, that's really the... Herbie: of dance. Tom: the guts of the die rolling and if there's just something that we're doing where the DM just needs something to say, is that plausible or not, we'll roll die sometimes. But most of it is rulings not rules, the way we play. The DM, it's his world and it is a fantastical world. it's not, there are things in his world that don't exist here. So he gets to make rulings that. you know i say i want to do this and he says well in my world that really isn't something that we can do and that's just a rule you know current iterations of the game they would have to look in the rules and say no you can't do that or yes you can and it's kind of keep shot crunchy Shamus: So it's definitely true what they say. One of the things they said is playing D &D can sharpen your math skills as players need to know how probability works to be good at it. That's where the dice come in or making decisions based off of certain. ⁓ Herbie: It's basically all turn-based too, because you know got like say if you're fighting the ogre maybe he's got like 20 hit points and you know he's using the broadsword and he inflicts maybe like eight points of damage and stuff like that and then that's how you Shamus: So I'm the only person at this table who's never played this game. Tom: No, but I could tell you because I know you, if you actually tried it, would love it. Creative mind. ⁓ Shamus: Oh, would never. I was going to say I would never. I that's why you guys are here, because when I was a kid growing up, the only thing I was told her earlier, the only thing I remember about Dungeons and Dragons is kind of the cartoon that Marvel put out. Yeah. And you had the guy with the big blue bat wings with the red eyes. And I was like, man, that guy looks pretty bad. And I just vaguely remember the cartoon, but. Tom: Yeah. Herbie: That was War Duke, but I- Shamus: watching the Big Bang Theory and then somebody I've never seen an episode of Stranger Things but somebody said Stranger Things basically. And they said it's heavily inspired by D &D like it's almost like a campaign. Yeah. And I think it was called a call of Cthulhu or something. Cthulhu. That's what they said it's based on or whatever. I have no idea but Christine: Stranger Things. Herbie: stuff. HP Lovecraft does a lot of the Cthulhu type stuff like ⁓ interdimensional monsters and all that stuff. was a writer. Shamus: And they said because of those two shows, like popularity, they actually it like a resurgence. It's through the roof again. Absolutely. So, I mean, is that true what they say about Stranger Things? Like, would you agree with that? Like, guys know. Tom: think Stranger Things certainly had a big part in introducing it to say Michael Michael. Yeah, so Michael was kind of already introduced to it before that. But I would say that his generation are definitely more involved with it now because of shows like Shamus: The new generation. Christine: Definitely. mean he belongs to a group. ⁓ Tom: ⁓ Yeah, so there's a club at his college that he's on the executive board for and even as recently and within the last month or so he's telling us how the club is starting to grow because they're seeing a resurgence in these tabletop games, role-playing games and that's because there's been a spotlight on it in the last decade or so. Shamus: Well, that's another thing he said, uh, because of those shows it's been translated into a dozen different languages and sold millions of games worldwide. The fifth edition, which came out in 2014, it's been revised. said in 2024, if any of this is wrong, let me know. Cause you guys would know, um, the, the game went through the roof record sales are at like 1 billion annually with a player base of over 40 million global. Tom: So the global population sounds about right. I can tell you there's kind of a divide in the population of D &D playing people. There's the OSR role players. It's kind of the world we fall into. So OSR, it's the old school resurgence or renaissance. We prefer the old school less rules-based way of playing. versus the the five e the five e is is like i said more rules-based you gotta have the book at the table it's gonna make decisions for you on a lot of things and not that that can't be fun and i i don't hold anything against anybody that plays that way it's just not our preference but there's kinda there's two worlds in the d and d gaming community that tend to newer version versus the older version I would tell you that people my age tend to be the old school way. The newer generation you tend to find it's easier and quicker for them to bust out the rule book and play that way. their campaign ⁓ is typically a lot more short lived and that's kind of how they like to play. Shamus: No? Christine: And the way we play, you can't play one of the bad characters in our game. you're like, you couldn't play an ogre or you couldn't play, you know, one of the bad characters in the way we play our game. You can only play a lawful good or no. Tom: Well, no, that's not You always have to be on what we'll call the hero side of it, not the antagonist. Although you can have a character that's antagonistic. Christine: Yeah, but you can't be the... Tom: We can't, yeah, you can't be a troll and ogre and any of the typical. Yeah, we're always on the good side, even if we're not doing good things. Herbie: I the bad guys, really. Shamus: Okay, is that just the you guys play in? Other people, you can be the antagonist or can be the bad guy or whatever. Tom: absolutely iterations of the game where you can be the antagonist you can be whatever you want to be ⁓ Shamus: it can be an asshole. Herbie: ⁓ yeah, you know, build like your own. Tom: Be fair. Shamus: I was a law enforcement and of course we're the good guys, but I've worked with some assholes Herbie: Like, equal asshole opportunity for all. Shamus: ⁓ You said you started in the 70s when you were a kid. Was it hard to find the game when you were younger or? Tom: So we didn't, that's the funny thing, like I didn't actually have the game. I just had a group of friends that knew the, we heard of it. We understood what the premise of it was. And we weren't necessarily rolling dice the way it was meant. We didn't read the rule book. But we were kind of intrigued by that kind of game playing. So we would get together and like I said, we would prefer to be outside. We actually. Christine: developing. Tom: Well, yeah, that's dope. Not necessarily more. Shamus: If you don't know what that is, that's live action role playing. That movie role models. Love that movie. Tom: Yeah, so ⁓ I guess you could call it that we weren't out sword fighting each other. We and Gary, know, Gary, my younger brother, Jeff, myself, you some other neighborhood kids, we would go on we called them journeys. And we would get together and typically it would be at night, go out at night. And we would go out into the woods and we would Herbie: Yeah. Tom: be in medieval times or whatever it was. And we kind of we played it that way. And like I said, our version of D &D wasn't necessarily indoors unless we couldn't be outdoors. And that's when we would sit at a table maybe and kind of RPG it, roleplay it at the table. That's cool. Shamus: That's how was when we were kids. had to your, we didn't have all this digital stuff they got now. We had to use our imagination. Cause if it wasn't D and D, like we were playing combat, like we were American soldiers fighting the commies and stuff like that. Herbie: Everything. Yeah, yeah, I was like even my buddies we used to act like, you know, like the characters from Red Dawn and stuff like that. Yeah, fighting the Russians. Tom: Yeah, I mean, we weren't always in medieval times. know, when Red Dawn came out, we were running through the woods. Herbie: Yeah, everybody was training to fight the Russians, man. Tom: So it a little bit as I get older, I think it's, it's good for me too, because as you get older, you got to exercise the thing on top of your shoulder. You get back. Yeah, you got to keep the brain active. And this is a way for me to it forces me to be creative, forces me to use my brain and problem solve that I don't do enough of that at work as it is. But, you know, to me, I think it's gonna add longevity to my life by doing something like this. It's fun. Shamus: Well, like I said, it's better at math, Herbie: Yeah, it's like a helmet. Tom: I feel like I'm 12 again. ⁓ Shamus: Yeah, that's it's every once in a while. Fire up the old Nintendo or Coleco vision or something. And you're just like, man. Or like we were talking on when Jay was here from the exciting new podcast, Sal's cousin. Yep. We were talking about like HBO bought back the original beginning, like where it goes through the town and all that stuff. And like, great. You're eight years old again or you're five years old. Yeah. Tom: Sitting there with the clicker attached to the 20 foot cord. We gotta talk about what you gotta try and turn the dial to get that naughty channel. Christine: Yeah. Shamus: Yeah, that's it. He brought that up. Herbie: Yeah Shamus: This a little All you saw was like this, like the snow, but you could see like a body part. Yeah, I think that was. Christine: I thought if you push just Tom: Well, if you a couple buttons at the same time, you might catch a nipple. Yeah. ⁓ man, you might catch a nipple. Shamus: Yeah ⁓ Herbie: Even after like when you sneak it you actually like I did like a certain type of technique where I would just like roll my finger so I can actually not make the clicking noises So it doesn't sound just have the TV on fucking me man Shamus: We were we could have built rockets and stuff when we were kids because we were so Imaginative and yeah, just finding ways to you know, damn the man. Yep Herbie: just jangle a damn knob just so can see a booby man. Hell yeah. Tom: When we were kids, our parents pushed us out the door. That was the way it was done. We are a unique generation, I think. Shamus: ⁓ absolutely. Don't come home to the streetlights. Come on. Well, the reason why I asked if it was hard to buy, because that's another thing they said with the research, like with the internet now, when that kicked off back in the early 2000s, it was easier to find it and just buy it online. Yeah. So. Herbie: Plus Warhammer like took off huge, you know, was. Yeah. All that stuff. Yeah, that's the card. That's a huge, huge surge in that too. Tom: It's just big. Shamus: What was the other one World of Warcraft or something like that? Christine: Is that another one? Shamus: That was a card game. It was kind of like the Pokemon. Tom: you see all that stuff that the conventions are great out yet no we do that yet we go to gen con every year and we've actually the last couple actually now this was our first year we started going to the philadelphia area gaming convention ⁓ it was michael's nice first time it was our friend kevin he's gone a few times but we're already set up to go next year again ⁓ Shamus: Yeah, let's get into that. Tom: Gen Con, 75 to 80,000 people every year. The entire city of Indianapolis just turns into Nerdfest. Shamus: was absolutely shocked when I, because I came across that and I remember, because Christine was at one of the, one of the parties. And I was like, hey, where's Tom at? And she was like, oh, he's in Indianapolis with Michael at GenCon. So when I came across it on the computer, because as soon as you go, fun facts about D &D, that's the first thing that comes up. And I was like, oh, I was telling him, was like, 70, but it's nerve. Tom: Thank you. Central. Yes. And I love every minute of it. They're my people. Herbie: Everyone's nice too man. That's like like it's one of those things where you get in a group of people. That's just everyone's just cool Shamus: For the listeners out there, Gen Con is it's like a board game convention and live role playing kind of stuff. They have a board game tournaments. They do a cosplay contest. They do industry panels where people are there to talk about games. And then they also do new game testing where they test out all the new stuff. And like Tom said, I was blown away by seeing some of the pictures and there was a lot of people there. Tom: Every hotel within 30 miles of Indianapolis, know, city limits booked solid booked everything at the convention center Lucas, it's Lucas will feel I think where the Indianapolis Colts that that's attached to the backside of convention center that's completely. rented out for Gen Con, there's a million events in there. Every hotel on the strip, we'll call it, every major Marriott and Hilton or whatever, all of their board or ⁓ board rooms and conference rooms and whatever rooms they have to rent, every one of them is jam packed with tables and games going on. When I tell you it's four days of nonstop gaming, that's it. There's no... Shamus: engines Herbie: you go. Tom: There's no politics, there's no left or right, there's no, you're not talking religion, mean it's just, nerds are there to be nerds and have fun. You're gaming during the day, you're gaming until midnight, you stop to eat. When you're not gaming, you're hanging out in the hotel lobby talking about what you did that day drinking at the bar. It's just a ⁓ good time with no drama ⁓ and you're surrounded by your people. Herbie: Yeah, man, it is. It's like it's like a getaway really, you know, because like you said, when you live, you know, you have like you're in the world, you know, you're not really have to deal with reality. And I mean, you're just like in this world where it's you're enjoying yourself, man. You're not really no one's having a role playing game about living in South Jersey. You know, there's there's no conventions for that, you know, you're not rolling a 20 sided dive like, ⁓ who's who's going to go to the barn and get all you can eat wings and you know, none of that stuff. is. Tom: It's an opportunity to explore, try different games, different versions of Dungeons and Dragons. There's all kinds. There's pirate theme that, know, there's a couple pirate theme ones that we've tried that we really like. There's the Shadow Dark and the Mork Borg games that are a little more, you know, science fiction-y, not so much fantasy. You know, there's all kinds of different ones, but the premise is the same. You're sitting at a table with either a bunch of friends or a of strangers, as it might be at a convention. You get to kind of escape the day to day. Being an adult, paying the bills, going to work, stress of life. You get to be something different for a little while. Shamus: What's the most number of players you've ever played with? Tom: So I would say at GenCon or even at the Page Convention, I think the most is maybe seven or eight at a table. You really don't want to do more than that at one time. Herbie: That's like a decent squad, man. It's like a platoon, really. Shamus: Oh, I've read, like biggest game ever was one thousand two hundred and twenty seven players. Holy in Provo, Utah. It's in the Guinness Book of World Records. That's I don't even know. I don't even know how you would any kind of game on the planet, how you would include twelve hundred some people. Tom: So let me put it in this perspective when we're at a table and there's say there's four or five of us Everybody not that do you sit at the table and say all right you get five minutes you get five minutes you get five minutes That's not how it works, but everybody Each character that you have that's playing is existing in the world at the same time so everybody has to advance the world have a thousand people trying to play how do you do you keep that that that that how does that you never get through a round of play yet whereas with five or six people over the course of five or ten minutes you can advance the campaign Herbie: think maybe it's like that type of stuff was maybe like almost like a war campaign because you know sometimes they'll actually set up armies. It's not just like smaller campaigns you can actually have armies go at it and stuff too which is cool. That's what I want to try to do with my buddies before back in the day. Shamus: Yeah, do you do that? Do you the miniatures that you paint Tom: So we have miniatures. Christine is very good at painting them. ⁓ I could tell you there's something Michael is seriously into. He just spent like $250 on a, he just got the box a week or so ago and he was doing back flips, he was so excited and then when he opened it up, it's just nothing but figures that he has to And he's into it. So there's a large population of people in, Christine: And I've painted them for him. Tom: this realm that that's really something they enjoy doing a lot. I don't have the eyesight for it and my arthritic hands I can't get into painting them little things I know it's something you did for me. Herbie: I still like every once while up by a pack and stuff like that. I have like ones ranging from like Star Wars miniatures, uh, Samurai and uh, Ninja miniatures, freaking, uh, Dracula from Bram Stoker's Dracula, the one that Gary Oldman did a mech war. Yeah. Mech warriors, just a war hammer. I have a couple of war hammers and stuff too. And speaking of that, Shamus: Nice suit. more for collectibles or using for tabletops? Herbie: It's basically the tabletop thing. It's almost like your piece, you know? Tom: so i have a character for each character that i play okay you know i have i bearers my my night in the campaign that i play with my wife he's a night you know i have that's yeah ⁓ Shamus: ⁓ we had them in the military. know what you're talking about. Tom: and and ⁓ Shamus: Thanks, guys. Tom: Kevin RDM, he's one that's been collecting the character figures for decades. So he's got thousands of them. So if we're venturing through the dungeons of something and there happens to be ⁓ dragons or trolls or whatever, he pops them out onto the map. And of course, my figure is this big and his troll is this big. And you're like, God damn, not another one of these things. Shamus: Are any of those worth any money? Like the figures even if they're painted? is it like one of those things where you have to be original, not painted or? Herbie: Say for example, like if you get a four pack of like maybe like samurai or something like that, you could probably spend like maybe, you know, 25 bucks or something like that painted and resale, like especially really well done. I mean, you can get like close to a hundred bucks for it. Yeah. Well, yeah, definitely. Cause they, they kind of like, know, either gray or like, you know, like a pewter color or they also come in like a. Shamus: ⁓ so most people want them painted. I've seen them, because like I said, I think it was the last episode, My roommate in the military used to have a ton of them. And he would just sit there all night with like a magnifying glass and paint them. But like, I never asked him if like some are more collectible than other ones or like maybe there was a misprint one that they put out and there was only like 100 of them in the world. Like, I don't know if. Tom: I'm sure those exist. I don't follow it that closely to know that. With anything like that, coins or whatever, I'm sure those exist. I can tell you the population of people that are into D &D and these figures as large enough that I guarantee there's people that know the answer. Shamus: ⁓ yeah, that's what saying. ⁓ absolutely. Herbie: ⁓ yeah, definitely. Because there was even like back in the day, there was like certain companies would come out to add to the, the miniature gaming and stuff like that. So after a while, either they didn't do too good or maybe the casting wasn't that great and they only had a couple of characters. So maybe like that shop closed. So like a lot of the, like the vintage ones, I would say it was like you, you could find like on eBay, like I've done, you know, there's plenty of companies now like Warhammer still going strong that produces figures. ⁓ There was Ralph Partha that used to do a lot of it. ⁓ A lot of companies in London, like UK and stuff like that, would be like Dixon miniatures, foundries, stuff like that would produce. And it was like a big, big thing over in Europe too. So it like 10 soldiers and all that stuff. Shamus: I know they are one of the things I came across was in 81 or 82. They released a version of D &D, but they quickly pulled it off the shelves and only like a handful of them got out where I guess the manual that came with it was like really racy and sexual So they immediately pulled them. But some of them did leak ⁓ and they're worth money. ⁓ Tom: ⁓ and ⁓ and Shamus: Okay, well does Gen Con have that? Do they have like a flea market section of it too where people are selling? Tom: they have auctions that go on every day multiple times a day and i say auctions filling a room that can hold hundreds of people and show for these auctions Herbie: There's so much money to be made there, Tom: I guess they do them every day even at the smaller convention that only has five thousand people or less we go to. have there's always auctions. There's always of course there's tables set up everywhere. The entire main floor of the convention center itself in Indianapolis is. It's a bizarre walk in and it's just vendors everywhere and then everything else around that is set up for you. Sign up to go play these games. Shamus: That's pretty cool, Herbie: Yeah, because even for the figure wise, there's such a big market for the figures and also you got to buy the paint. You got to buy the paint brushes. You got to buy like the scalps. You to the bases. There's also like little like artificial grass that like do for like the stand for your figure. There's also like terrain. You know, back in the day, you know, there wasn't really a lot of terrain out there. You actually had to make your own and stuff. So it was like you rely on. like train model kits or like, you know, when people used to build, you know, train sets, a lot of the stuff would actually, they would have to make it from scratch because they didn't really have like certain bridges or houses. Shamus: A lot of plaster of power. Herbie: Yeah, dude, a lot of it. But now it's like everyone's three, you know, 3D printing stuff. So like there's tons of terrain. There's tons of figures out there now. I mean, you can just download anything you can see, like even got the Predator figures. They got like the new Star Wars figures. They got Transformers. I mean, they got everything. And it's all like people like a small business out of their house. And, you know, they just use a 3D printer to print out the figures. Shamus: So you're the painter, huh? I figured that. We'll plug that later. Are you still doing that? I am. Okay, we'll plug that later. See if we can get drum up some business. Herbie: Wow, too, man. Like just like even one figure could like, ⁓ my God. Take a while to do. Christine: take forever. A lot of cursing too. Herbie: You got like a pack of like 12 figures. You're like, Jesus. Tom: Apparently it could be quite dangerous. Michael came home last weekend, like I said, he's got band-aids on his fingers. said, what your fingers? He said, well, me and my, I forget his friend's name. goes, me and my friend so-and-so were doing figures the other night. Christine: The dude has fingers! Tom: I have my snips to, you they get little burrs on them and stuff that you snip on. goes, I didn't have my snips. And he goes, I cut my fingers with the X-Acto knife trying to get it ready so I can paint it. he's got more wounds from paint. Shamus: Here's a lesson learned. Herbie: There's like tons of them, man. I still have like a bunch of mine and even like they was referring to like the books back in the day, how I got into it was my cousin. And this was like in the late eighties. He was into it first and he was older. So after a while he got out of it, he was like, Hey, you want these books? I was like, heck yeah. And that's how I actually started getting into it, doing like, you know, a little D and D stuff at my, with my friends and stuff. This is cool. Shamus: Okay. Christine: Your friend had said, ⁓ you should. Herbie: I'm not those books though, if I find them, I won't be giving them to Yeah, dude, the original Gary Gygax one. So it would actually have like books like either the characters and also there would be like the monster manual. So it would be like this one big book of all that. Tom: Love it. Shamus: Encyclopedia of characters. Tom: Yeah. Herbie: of like all the big like the trolls and dragons and all that stuff and their you know their hit points and what they could do their abilities all that stuff and then they had ⁓ they used to have art books because it would be like a lot almost the way they were drawn it was just beautiful like ⁓ Tom: ⁓ Michael's infatuated with the art books, especially the old school stuff. Shamus: Was it Gygax or the other guy's character was the first one to die in D &D? Tom: you know i don't remember something that kevin would say in the sleep and Shamus: I'll stop his head. I remember looking it up, but I forgot to write it down. One of them was like the first confirmed death in Dungeons and Dragons. Herbie: I think they still do it. From what I understand though, think they still do a tour of Gary Gygax's house for like D &D because like he used to do it in the basement. Yeah. I forget where he where Gary Gygax lived but ⁓ Ohio or something like that. Shamus: Really? Tom: ⁓ Kevin just went to another convention, another gaming convention in Lake Geneva, which I believe is the home of Gygax. They call it Garycon because I believe it's in his hometown. Don't hold me to that, but I think that's it. Lake Geneva, what's that? Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's his original stomping grounds. Shamus: Late Geneva did come across the screen a couple times. Is he big into it where he's actually celebrates like D and D day is January 26. And then they also, lot of D and D are celebrate July 27th, which is guy Gex's birthday. Tom: yeah he would certainly be the one that marks his calendar for all things d okay ⁓ i mean it's other than his family and and his you know he owns his own law firm other than those two things i would argue that the indians third most important thing in his life Shamus: So just like everything else in the 70s and 80s when we were growing up Critics argued the game was corrupting the youth by promoting witchcraft and devil worship Is there any of that going on or what? Tom: Well, in the game, there's witchcraft. No, mean, listen, anything new, whether today or 50 years ago, the Beatles were considered... Christine: ⁓ Shamus: Absolutely. Yeah, if you play their records backwards, you'll hear the Herbie: Everybody's freckles back. Tom: People are scared of what they don't understand. And when your kids are sitting in the basement drinking Mountain Dew, eating Funyuns and talking about slaying dragons and magic and stuff, know, 40 years ago, that might scare a parent. But yeah, there was was quite a bit to do about it back then. Herbie: Your brain's rotten, Shamus: Yeah, well, everything was. It's like, you know, the music we listen to like all it's it was just absolutely insane. But somebody's Christian. And don't get me wrong, not all of them, but like the fanatical people would just like, that's the devil. Like, what was that movie? The Waterboy? She's the devil. know, everything was football is the devil. Herbie: Which is the devil? ⁓ Was bigger movies, Tom Hanks, you know, our arch nemesis for. ⁓ Shamus: Dungeons and Dragons is the devil! Tom: Thank Shamus: Yeah, Jay's arcs, nemesis. Herbie: He actually did an old Dungeons and Dragons movie. It was like, but his his Tom. Tom Hanks got really into the character and he started like fantasizing that like in regular life he was still carrying on the campaign and his other buddies are like, look, we're not playing the game right now, but you get really into it. Really? Yeah, I forget the name of the movie. was like a late 80s movie, but Tom Hanks was in it. Shamus: Well, there was only two Dungeons and Dragons movies, the one in 2000 and the one that recently just Herbie: Basically about kids that played Dungeons and Dragons and Tom Hanks is Character he got really into it. Okay, just like you know we kind of went to a world where he was just living Dungeons and Dragons in regular life all the time Tom: There's a lot of I guess we'll call them B movies out there that are D &D. Shamus: Somebody said the last one was pretty good with Chris Pike. it that? Pine, pine. Herbie: I think Christine: pine. Tom: yeah i mean the movie was was okay ⁓ i can tell you that had mixed reviews amongst the dvd community ⁓ Shamus: Like I wouldn't go see it because I have no idea what I'm looking at. Somebody said the one in 2000 was absolute. Herbie: trash. Yeah, trash. But that's how like that, like in the late 80s or like early 80s, that's how a lot of the sword and sorcery movies became popular because of like Dungeons and Dragons. There was even like a movie, ⁓ Dragon Slayer that I still love that had actually, ⁓ Ian McDiarmid, the guy that actually played the emperor that was from Star Wars in the movie. It's a great movie. See, I've ever got a chance to see it's like an old sword and sorcery, like eighties movie and the dragon vermouth racks is freaking awesome. Shamus: Yeah, Harry Potter and all that stuff is pretty much based off of that. Herbie: Yeah, Conan the Barbarian. mean, like, there's so many sword and sorcery movies out there now. Loved all that. Yeah, so did I. But that's how... Shamus: Much better. like 70 year old watching in line with all these kids to go to Harry Potter when it like, like the next one came out. Herbie: I can never get into it man. Like Harry, I mean I watch Harry Potter, the only time I really watched it was like it'd be on FX all the time. Shamus: I'm like, you can just read the book. And he was like, there's a book. Christine: We went and saw it at the ⁓ theater on Broadway. In New York, yep. Tom: So I wasn't a huge Harry Potter fan either. I mean I enjoy the movie, don't get me wrong, but Lord of the Rings, like that were more my flavor. Conan, of course. Shamus: ⁓ yeah, yeah, I got a new one coming out with Arnold Herbie: They had like a lot. Yeah. Well, like said, there was movies, cartoons, video games. mean, there's. A cartoon. Yeah. It was great too, man, because like you actually, you would have to pick the route that you're going to go and you know how to beat the dragon and stuff. And even how like those old books back in the day where you could read the book if you're an adventure and you'd be like, okay, what do you do? And be like, I'm going to go. Shamus: Well, I remember the Dragon Slayer video, like the cartoon arcade. Cool. So. Choose your own adventure. Herbie: We'll go to page 89 like, I've got get messed up. Shamus: You are now dead. Well, let's go back to page 56 and fix this. Herbie: Dragon just ate your ass. Shamus: Yeah, I never really. It's like I totally forgot about them. Like when you were a kid, you're like, oh, they're playing Dungeons and Dragons or like I always thought that one figure was pretty cool. You saw him in the cartoon. I was like, man. But then like, you know, you go like army college, whatever. And it kind of slipped away from me. But then watching the big bang theory, I'm watching these guys. I'm like, man, people still play that. That's crazy. Herbie: name's War Duke. Tom: Well, there's a full disclosure until Michael and Kevin kind of reintroduced me to it. I had no idea that it was still alive. Shamus: It is and it's amazing when you do the research like how many like when you watch a big bang theory like all the people that Wheaton has at his house or avid Dungeon in real life like those dudes really like Joe Maganello Christine: It's Gen Con. It was one of the things I kept looking for. Herbie: Well, even Henry Cavill, he's huge into Warhammer and stuff. Shamus: It's just amazing how many celebrities, and then when you look at the numbers, you're just like, man, how have I never, wow. Herbie: They actually probably got a resurgence too, like during COVID and stuff. Cause everyone had to stay inside. Shamus: Yeah, that's another thing. Tom: We we played our campaign over Zoom. Shamus: Yeah, that's another thing. said, ⁓ the resurgence is because of technology, people can play like you could play with people in Sweden or Germany over zoom and stuff like that. Tom: It is a lot more fun when you're doing exactly what we're doing right now. We're sitting with each other, body language, eye contact, interacting. But when COVID lockdown hit, all we had was Zoom. It helped us. We got our fix. Shamus: Captain Tra- Christine: to stay connected. Herbie: think that's the beauty about all these types of games and stuff, man. Just gets everyone like, you you got to do something with Michael, you know, you get to spend time with your son. It's great. Shamus: ⁓ yeah, it brings everybody, whether it's father, son or just friends that you grew up with and it just brings people together. Yeah. And like he said, when you have a community like that and when they all get together, it's you get away from your life from it. You get away from all the bullshit that's going on in the world right now. And everybody's generally human beings. Yeah. So it doesn't matter what race, color, political state. Like he said, it's just everybody's just there to have a good time and let's. Herbie: Granted, I wouldn't like to get into LARPing so I can just wear like a ninja suit or like a samurai. Shit out of somebody, man. Just start swacking somebody with a- Shamus: the fuck? Maybe role models had me like, oh, maybe I should check this out. Herbie: Kiss my aunt yet? Christine: Bye. Tom: Yeah. ⁓ Shamus: And a huge kiss, guys. Herbie: Nothing dude, I hey I'm there It doesn't take much like you both of you guys know it doesn't take much to convince me to do it You can be like hey you want to do a podcast. Yep. You want to start a larping group? Yep Balls deep in I'm like you gotta be kidding me. Oh, yeah. I want to do it matter of fact I'm doing anyway. I'm like shit. I do it all the time I run around and a frickin ninja suit in my backyard. There's my neighbors like here. He is Here's that ninja guy again Tom: great movie. Yeah. I love video games and things like that just as much as the next person but there's a lot of value when you just get to sit and be with people. Live interaction, whether we're playing a game or just hanging out. We'll get together at a table to play D &D and eight hours later you don't even realize it. You're still playing. We go on burners and you don't even realize it until your hips start hurting and your ass... Herbie: All the stress is gone too. Feels like you can sit in all day. Tom: Hey. Shamus: Then you can't get up because there's no blood in your feet. Tom: You know, we get together, we order food, we eat bottles of wine or meat or whatever, know, just hanging out. That's dope. Yeah, we ⁓ actually I got to set it up again this year. We over in Pennsylvania, there's the Glencairn Castle. It's a legit castle. And they rent out the ⁓ tower. The tower and you can see the Philly skyline from there. ⁓ Herbie: meets. Christine: You've gone and played at a castle. Yeah. Herbie: to. That's freaking See you. Christine: time we're going in the Tom: Yeah, I'm going to see if we can get the dungeon because they ran out the whole castle. we did the tower last year. This year we might want to. We're going to see if we can get the dungeon. last year we went there for five or six hours and. Yeah, well, it's not a one off. It was his. Christine: our son actually created what they called a one-off game. supposed to be a one-off but then he decided Tom: helping his own his inaugural run at it with us in the Tower of Akas Herbie: That's dope. ⁓ see that's, if I had the money, dude, I would definitely live in a castle. Even when I went to Japan, I was like, I love those, the Yamashiro castles. When I went to Germany and Rotenberg, it was basically it's a, it's a city with a castle wall around it and you can only access it through a drawbridge and a dry moat. And me and my buddy were just running through it, like acting like we're sword fighting through the ramparts. And so it was fricking sweet. Shamus: Now, could you be a dungeon master if you wanted to or could you? But you just need people to play with you just. Tom: Anybody can be anybody. Need people to play and. Christine: Anybody can. You have to come up with a storyline. You got to kind of. Herbie: Yeah. Shamus: Yeah, I was gonna say what does it take to just say hey, all right I want to be a dungeon master What do need to do? Tom: It really depends on, you can either write it all down and script it all out because that's the way you want to play or you could be, mean, Kevin is fantastic. He's quick on his feet. He's developed his own world so he knows the world, but a good DM can role play through it from that side of the table with whatever the characters decide to do that day. Christine: So now I don't know how it works with other different types of I'm looking to you Tom, cause you would know better, but other types of D and D that we don't play for like somebody coming in as a DM, are they able to just jump in? Tom: So I would tell you there are definitely versions of the game where you have to buy the rule book and you have to, you know, that's how you play that way. If you're old school like us, it's more creative on the fly. I mean, there's there's certainly a premise to it. And there's, you know, there are rules. Don't get me wrong. There's certainly rules we have to abide by as we campaign. And then there's others where, like I said, you know, if you're going to play this version of the D &D, we'll call it. You you've got to buy the book, you've got to follow those rules and that's how it's played. So it just really depends on what kind of DM you want to be. You want to just follow the book and let it dictate and you kind of navigate it for your people? Or do you want to be someone who interacts and has an open world as we call it? And today we decide to go left and you've got to be ready to go left. Herbie: Yeah, push a sword through an orc's head, man. Tom: I like when we. Christine: I get to describe how we killed something. Herbie: That's cool. Shamus: Now do you guys get to like you play with that guy, Kevin, he's a Dungeon Master, but can like when you go to Gen Con, obviously you play with other people. like here, could you jump like you said you and Michael play together so you can start your own little thing. You could play with anybody. You're not locked into one Dungeon Master or anything like that. Tom: No, so Michael is now a Dungeon Master. He decided that up at his college. Okay. You know, in his club, he wanted to run a campaign. So he solicited some players. He's got a group of five or six fellow college people who enjoy playing D &D and he's running a campaign. There's five or six other people in his club that are running separate campaigns. So anybody with the desire to do it and will to do it. Yeah. There's no rule like you have to go get certified to be a DM. Shamus: That's all, that's all. I was gonna say when we get ready to close this out is there a place can people could go to actually research it or like do you have like a website you guys can kind of just look at and what's the word I'm looking for Tom: So depending on what version you want to do, there's certainly if you go to any of the conventions, they have workshops that some are beginner, intermediate, or advanced how to DM, how to be a game master, a dungeon master. ⁓ And you can certainly find them specific to the type of game you want to play. Do you want to be an OSR kind of guy? Do you want to be a more rules-based, through the book kind of guy or gal? So you can take courses and those are all available online too. If you Google how to be a DM, there's going to be a million YouTube videos, a million websites you can go to. You can research it. You can buy the books. You can buy the books from 1970 whatever or there's current books that are coming out today. Shamus: I know it's all in my algorithm now after I research for this Tom: really about you finding your flavor and the world's open. You can be whatever type of DM or character you want to be within the guise of that world that you're going to be playing in. Shamus: Now, you play with anybody else or just with them? Okay, you have no desire to... Christine: just with them. No. Herbie: How many characters do you have? Christine: Currently two. Shamus: Now for each campaign, you can only use one character or can use two. Or use as many. Christine: you can actually. As many as you feel comfortable. Tom: and the family game that's kind of been hiatus i have to care i started with one Christine: I at one point was playing two characters, but I think we ended up dropping one off. It got to be too much. So I played a character named Talia and she was nice. She was. Thank you. I came up with that name. ⁓ She was a half elf ⁓ and was a badass archer. ⁓ And then my other character. Huh? Tom: Yeah Christine: because that's the one that's been on hiatus forever. I know, I know. My beard is cracking. One set of our characters are together. Herbie: See, you can also put a sword through an orc's head and crack it. Nice. Hell yeah. Shamus: Peace. Christine: Of course, my characters are a hell of a lot taller than I am in real life. Tom: that's that's part of the fun of it is you create character there and well Christine: personal thing. of them though you get based upon roles. Tom: Well, there's parts of your character that are... Christine: So like my height. Shamus: Basically just be your alter ego now. Yeah Tom: but i mean you come up with the name you come up with the back story you create character and how this character fit into the world before it gets introduced Christine: So that's where my, that's what I like. Like that's where my interests is there. Herbie: Tommy could be like, my name's Tommy, but it's really. Yeah, I've heard Drac... Tom: I Dracnord. I'll give you the example. I bear Dracnord, first character I made when Kevin and Michael reintroduced me to it. He's a knight warrior. He was second in esteem to Aidenet's father. He was the lord of the manor. So I was his sergeant at arms. Nice. I was, without her parents' permission, She was kind of a as we call it a tomboy. Yeah. She wanted to do more nightie fightie type. Yeah. So I bear the accomplished swordsman he was was privately teaching Aiden it. Shamus: Never saw that, didn't see that coming. Herbie: Bet she was probably teaching her. He's cracking a princess. If I always start out first that way, then next to you know her. Shields are clashing. Christine: It was strictly that way. ⁓ He was training me to be. He was training me to be a warrior because my father. Oh, right. was a female. So back in the times that we are, it's not proper. I should be. Of. Herbie: But yeah, that's Shamus: . Herbie: It was a forbidden love. Tom: . Christine: but then my father is betrayed. Yes. And murdered. ⁓ Tom: And we flee together. ⁓ Herbie: See? Christine: protects me and we flee and I'm basically forced out of my country. Herbie: How many characters do have, Tommy? Tom: I have I bear I have Pilgrim who's a human Ranger I bear as a human night warrior I have and Michael my campaign I have alvaro for rook was a half-elf like I said assassin made that one's that's probably the one I enjoy the most Herbie: choice. Yeah. So basically like for, for people that don't really know a mage would be like a magic user. Yes. Yeah. Rangers, like an archer. Shamus: That you're gonna say because I have no idea what he just said When he said Ranger I was like, I know what those guys are I served with empty Herbie: Actually, yeah, you know what? What else is a cleric would be more like a like a holy man type deal, but he also uses Shamus: get those print like the first three major characters were you know fighting guy obviously and then you had the what was the other one the cleric and then the magic guy so I figured Christine: The cleric also has use of some magical spells. Tom: spell that are different than a typical mage wizard type spell. Herbie: in a cl- Shamus: But then they said it just kind of evolved where you can pretty much be anything you want as long as they, know, the Dungeon Master School, whatever. Herbie: But like the characteristic for like a cleric if I'm if I'm correct they have some magic abilities But they only use like maces and blunt weapons not like any sharp Where like you know a paladin would be more like I guess like a knight with a sword Tom: Yeah. Shamus: So there's limitations. So you have to pick a category where your character is going to fall in and then there's Gotcha. Herbie: certain characteristics and abilities and stuff. Tom: ⁓ and ⁓ Shamus: Okay, everybody's got their own set of Herbie: So it's like if you're an assassin, you got like pointed ⁓ daggers and poisons and stuff like that. And then you got like the Ranger that has like a bow and arrow and maybe a small short sword. And the knight, you know, of course, has like the heavy armor, the shield and the broadsword. And that just ranges on depends on like how fast they can move because they all have that's Yeah, that's all like in the whole thing, too. So you're not really going to be sitting there being like a heavy knight. ⁓ running through a forest super fast and stuff like that because it just wouldn't be possible really. So they just have all these different things where a thief would be faster. Tom: So that becomes the challenge at the table is how to use everybody's specific pros, their good abilities to advance the group. A thief is gonna be the one if you come upon a secret home in the woods and you have to make sure that you're not gonna open a door that's booby-trapped where your thief is specialized at kind of setting and finding booby traps. you check for traps. Herbie: cracking open chests. Tom: ⁓ and Herbie: That's why there's like a normal bigger group, you know? You're not really going to have like one character that can do everything. Shamus: It's a lot like the military, know? Okay, we gotta get across this field, but it might have mines. Send the engineers in, they clear the field. And then the tanks go through first, just in case there is one, and then the infantry comes in. Yeah, so, I get it. I get it. Besides the figures, the dice and all that stuff, what does merchandise look like? Tom: It's limitless. just really depends. Shamus: Cause I've never seen anybody wearing like a Dungeons and Dragons t-shirt or a hat or I know they have a cookbook. Yeah. The hero's feast thing. Is that what it's called? Tom: Well, there is. Christine: But I Tom: and ⁓ Christine: a couple of them. Herbie: Roasted mutton joint. Shamus: lunchboxes, coolers, stuff like that. Oh, absolutely. Thanks to Gene Simmons. mean, But yeah, I've never. That's another thing. Like I heard it like I saw the cookbook online and I was like, wow. And I thought to myself driving home that day, I was like, I've never seen. Maybe I just didn't notice. Yeah, I just a shirt or a hat or something like that. Or maybe I saw it. Just didn't realize like if there was a certain character, I just didn't recognize what it was and just. Herbie: bacon bread. Tom: Yeah. Herbie: think it was fellow nerds can actually see each other's stuff. They're like, know, especially, you know, a t-shirt and stuff like that. Like dude, I like that. Yeah. Oh yeah. Christine: ⁓ my Tom: Yeah. Shamus: That shirt I always see. And what's his name? Sheldon used to wear it on big like, know, choose your weapon and had like the different dice on. I know that's Dungeon. Tom: i can tell you as much if not more than the characters that is the Christine: Mm-hmm. Shamus: Okay. Yeah, really? Christine: ⁓ my the iterations of dice that people buy and the differences in cost of dice. Shamus: Well, is it just because like certain dice might have like a different dye in it and they stop production of it or they just rare or? Herbie: . Christine: different creations, are metal, some are wood, some are... Tom: actual real glass. Some are liquid filled, some aren't. There's round ones that you spin. Shamus: Yeah, somebody you told me it was a hundred sided dice or something like that. It looks like a ball almost. Herbie: Some of look like jewelry and treasures and stuff like jewels and stuff because like there's so many some Christine: buy them just to collect them they don't use them Herbie: There's also, think there's like almost like the goblets and stuff like that where you you know, you can shake the dice and roll it out that way and there's a small Yeah, and same thing with like the Shamus: the cups that used to come with Yahtzee. Christine: Tom actually has one pop like they people buy like there's different things you can buy now. Tom: Yeah. Trouble? Trouble. So I have dice that range anywhere from $5 for the set to think the most I spent is like $70 for a set. And there are sets out there are hundreds. Shamus: Yeah. Christine: And the literally is what you would need for a I mean, yes and no, because sometimes depending on what you may need for your specific character, you might need multiple sets. Shamus: Again. Well, what dictates price? Like what she said, the material it's made out of or the quality of how it's made or? Both. Christine: Both? yes. Definitely. Tom: you know, metal dice are inherently going to cost more than plastic. I got you. But there are some very intricate, very beautiful. There's just. Christine: So Shamus: Bye. Christine: interesting some that are definitely Shamus: Some people put a lot of work into that. Herbie: It almost looks like, like I said, jewelry and stuff like that are gems. Yeah. Christine: or some are like really cool because they're like liquid filled and they have like I just bought a guy at work a set for Christmas and they were literally like liquid filled and then like had eyes that looked like they were moved with you like when you would move. That was cool. Shamus: Yeah. Herbie: much stuff in it. You just don't even realize. even, you you said with the, the dice, the miniatures, it's just endless. I mean, there's people that still buy miniatures. mean, I, every once in while, I still buy miniatures. have, I have like a whole huge stack of ones I haven't even painted yet. I still got like a bunch that are painted, but also have like, yeah, yeah. Shamus: Are you good at it? Herbie: I did it for a while. It was like all different types of techniques. I like kind of taught myself how to do it. My buddy Steve, Steve was the one that got me into it. It was like me, Steve and TJ were basically the three main ones and we would do it in my basement. Tom: I remember the first time you took me in your basement. You had it all set up still. Yeah. It was probably a full sheet of plywood that he had completely covered with terrain and everything. And he had, if I remember right, it was armies that were set up. Shamus: Is that what you made the castle out of the bamboo birdcage? Tom: Yeah, yeah. Herbie: made that it was like, cause Steve, Steve would have like the Knights, the Orcs. had, he was all undead, you know, like armies and, and Orcs elves Knights. And of course, you know, Herbie yours truly is ninjas and Samurais. He got me into it. Cause he got me a little pack. He's like, look, I got a pack of like, pack of three ninjas and I was like, oh, and he knew and he gave me like he bought another pack that had like a mix and there was one samurai dude on there. So I was like, oh, and he gave me that and it just took off from there. And then they Star Wars ones too. Yeah, dude had stormtroopers and speeder bikes and all that crap, Tom: brought me back. I actually remember the first time I went to your house. Yeah. For two reasons. One, you brought me down and showed me the basement, was phenomenal. And then shout out to Mama Herbie. The first time Mama cooked for me, man. ⁓ Shamus: We're trying to have her on for Mother's Day, Mother's Day special. Herbie: She's getting a little gun shy now, but I'm keep trying to coax her. I'm like, come on. Tom: I remember that she fed me that night. You know, my house we eat on plates. Herbie's house, she threw down a platter. I had pork chops, rice and beans. And I'm like, this is fantastic. This is great. Your mom, I love her. Shamus: ⁓ yeah Herbie: I love my mom too, man. I'm so glad she's still around. Shamus: I thought the mama heard. Herbie: She would like kick half, you know, you'd have like half a chicken. Yep. Big old thing of rice and beans. I remember the one time my friends were out back and she was like, I made four chickens. You know, it's like, ⁓ don't worry, it'll go down like piss water. That's her famous thing. Like it'll just go down like piss water. And sure enough, dude, you're eating a half a chicken and like two pounds of rice and four pounds of beans. And it was great. ⁓ I still do it. No. Shamus: Great. You weren't at his 50th, right? No. His mom shows up. Yeah. So he's in the backyard. This dude, I mean, looked official like movie, but comes in dresses Vader Darth Vader. He's instant, you know, he goes from the nobody and I'm standing next to his mom and she's like, oh, pop. He's happy. And I was just like, Yeah, said, what does it do? He's a huge star wars fan. And she told me the story of how she took him to the movie theater the very first time. And the only thing I can picture is like like a Funko doll, like his body being this big, but like the same size. She said when Darth Vader came on the screen for the first time, she said he stood up on a chair and he was just like. Well, she said. After that, it was all over. Herbie: Yup, yup. ⁓ I was in Tom: That's great. Shamus: I'm like, puppy, sit down, sit down. Herbie: Lord I stole Lord Vader stole my boy man like the Holy Trinity for me is Lord Vader spider-man and Godzilla Shamus: But the she the way she I mean, you know her so the way she talks about and the way she described it, I was pissing myself, And of course, Terry comes over and she's like, what the hell are you laughing about? You got to hear this. Christine: Yeah. Herbie: was the first movie I ever saw, Tom: Funny thing is I can totally picture it. Shamus: ⁓ yeah? Herbie: Yeah, you know me when I when I lose my shit, I lose my shit Tom: ⁓ yeah. Shamus: He said he went banana. Herbie: Yeah, Ford Vader is like a little I was a kid too like I used to love robots and stuff and this dude was like the baddest fucking robot I ever saw in my life And the dude was whooping everyone's ass. I have to do shit. I just came out Oh, yeah, all right. Yeah Shamus: Yes. We're going to cover that for our Star Wars. May the 4th is coming up. May the 4th. You're a big Star Wars guy. Where did you guys used to watch? You guys used to have like Star Wars Marathon, right? Herbie: can go on more. Christine: We would have themed parties. Herbie: day. Tom: Yeah, we watch him through. Herbie: Yeah, pajama jammy jam, baby Christine: Yeah. Tom: Yep. Shamus: That was that was just like the first three episodes, right ⁓ guys Herbie: I think we got into like Christine: I think you remember like what Jar Jar? Herbie: ⁓ yeah, we watched the original so we went like in episode one two of like Shamus: I'm have have you back for the Star Wars. If you were going to start out if I'm my neighbor with his leaf blower Yeah If you were gonna if somebody came up to you and said hey I'm thinking about playing D &D Do you have like like a piece of advice to give them like to start out or not? Just like hey Google this but you know if you Yeah, if you had to say one thing to somebody who was interesting getting involved in it. What would you say? Herbie: That's the... Tom: One bit of advice, one, we're everywhere. ⁓ So if you did, I mean, you could just reach out online and find gaming groups. You could go to any bookstore, gaming store, and there's gonna be D &D night there. You can find your people. They're out there. ⁓ Or just find like-minded friends and sit down at the table and just have fun with it. There doesn't need to be... a million rules, fumble through it, make mistakes, but just sit down and have fun, man. Get yourself a set of dice, find people that want to play with you, and just do it. Herbie: Crack some beers. Shamus: How about you, Miss Christine? From the female's perspective, like if if another woman came up to you and said, hey, I'm thinking about getting into this what kind of advice would you give them? Because it pretty much is like a dominated game, right? ⁓ Tom: I wouldn't say. Christine: There's a lot. ⁓ there is a lot of females. Herbie: That's Tom: yeah i can tell you at the convention when i sit at the table it's probably fifty fifty split at the table Shamus: That's good. That's great. never. That's my fault for assuming. I figured there's more dudes than chicks. But if you had to give advice, what would you? Christine: Just have fun. I know sometimes that I will get embarrassed when I can't remember what dice I need to roll or whatever, but you know what? I just looked to my husband and asked him, what dice do I need to roll? And he'll let me know and then, you know, move on from it, but have fun. You're able to get creative, you know, you can be, when you're in your character, can be whatever you want to, know, whoever you want to be and do whatever you want to do. So have fun with it. Shamus: What do you guys got going on this summer? What's coming up? Christine: He has Gen Con. Tom: Gen Con's coming up. First comes Button Push May 17th. That's a big day for Gen Con people. Button Push is, I believe this year it's May 17th, 76,000 people. There's 30,000 events. There's the events you want. And at 12 o'clock noon on that day, everybody hits their button on their computer. Shamus: What is button push? Okay Tom: because you get ranked in order of your button push and the higher you are, or I should say the lower you are, closer to number one you are, the more chance you have of getting the event, you know, games you want to play. So typically, you know, if there's 20 games you want to play over four days, you're lucky if you get a third of those. Christine: At Gen Con. Tom: because only five or six, maybe eight people can play a game. Shamus: Do you me to shut that curtain? Christine: I'm good. Shamus: Okay, I just looked over and realized that sun is just beat on it. I was like, oh my God, I should probably say something. Tom: Button push days a big day for us. We get together at Kevin's house. We do a big breakfast. ⁓ We plan our button push and whoever gets the best number. What we got to make sure you pick this game so we can all get in on it. Yeah. You know, we actually get together a week before and do pre button push plant planning. We get together. ⁓ And we all. Shamus: We got to a plan. That's the best way to accomplish anything. Tom: you hit that button. know, last year, I think I got the highest or the lowest year before it was Kevin's son Brennan. got the lowest so he was kind of picking for everybody and you never get everything you want. But it's just part of the fun. Herbie: Yeah, makes it fair too, because I'm sure like, you know, the certain amount of events, there's going to be like everybody and their brother trying to get in certain types of events as well. So it just makes it more. Shamus: Absolutely. Tom: fair. Shamus: Are you still pushing crafts? Do you have like a website people can go to or what are you doing? Christine: Yeah. have a website. The website would come probably when I retire, I go to craft fairs. I signed up for one that will actually be in Vincent town. I believe it's on will be May 8th. It would be, I forget what the name of it is. I just sent in the paperwork for it, but would it be the mid part of a. Shamus: What craft fairs you got coming up? What you got going on? Christine: in Vincent's Hound. It'll be the first time I'm doing it. ⁓ But yeah, I just did one in Pemberton, ⁓ basically called Creekside Creations by Christine. I do jewelry and painting and just whatever. Tom: I saw yourself short. You do all kinds of crafts. Christine: Yeah. OCD when it comes to crafts. Shamus: was gonna say, I've seen some of your stuff. Herbie: That was great. Shamus: Well for our listeners out there if you make it out to the vintage town craft show thing, what is it? What day is it? I look for a creek side creations by Christine and that's who's talking on the mic So I'm like like Tom said she does an amazing job. She does all kinds of stuff. She's downplaying what she does, Christine: May 8th, I believe, is the date. It's my retirement plan. Herbie: That's fun though. lot of people don't really have hobbies if you really think about it. You guys have hobbies. That's true. But like it's interesting hobbies and it's fun, it's creative, it's artistic. You know? It's imaginative. You're using your brain for math. You know? Shamus: everybody's on their goddamn phone. Tom: Yeah. Shamus: Yeah, I'm like Tom said we're getting to that age where you got to do stuff. Oh, yeah I find myself I'm like, what what is his name? I forget Tom: Gotta exercise them muscles, man. Herbie: ⁓ I'm horrible with you. Shamus: Ask him what we doing his pockets like just earlier. I'm like, what the hell is that? Totally Herbie: Yeah. Tom: . Christine: I have a girl at work that I call her my interpreter. like, what am I trying to say? She's like, yeah, thank you. And I'll look to her for another word. And she's my interpreter at work because I just forget simple words. Herbie: So I'm at the phase now where I walk into a room and I forget what I wanted to do. I stand there in the middle of the kitchen like, did I want a sandwich? What did I want to do? Why did I come in here? Where am I? Who am I? Why am I even here? Are you my grandkid? Christine: You Never have one. Got something and you know you forgot something, but you can't remember what you forgot and it comes to you like seven hours later. Yeah, I'm just like, why? Shamus: Thank Herbie: Come across a great idea and you're like, oh yeah, and you're like what the hell did I just think about what was the idea? I can we came up with the idea of like cold fusion and completely forgot it Forever sustainable energy Christine: Peanut butter sandwich. ⁓ Herbie: ⁓ Ruined it like what I get from Amazon Yes, you know it's sad but true Shamus: It's it's so true. Tom: I Shamus: Well, thanks for lending us some time. it's nice that people know, because like I said, it's another is one of the reasons why I started this podcast, man. I'm curious about stuff. And I'm one of those guys like when I see it, I'm like, what the hell is that? But it's actually nice to actually have people come in and explain stuff. And like the D &D thing. So hold on. Big Bang. I'm like, man, people still play like, I don't even know how you play that. And like the one dude when they do the episode where he was like different. Herbie: Yeah, man. Shamus: movie characters like Pachinos eyes like man, that would be pretty cool to do. So I'm glad you guys came in and gave us a little bit of insight into the world of D and D and. And like I said, if you're interested, we're going to do a special about Star Wars. If you to back and talk about, because I know you're a big Star Wars guy, just like her. Tom: I appreciate you inviting us. Yes indeed, I'll come back anytime guys. Herbie: It's good too because you know if people a lot of people don't have hobbies Yeah, all you listeners out there like you should start getting into hobbies You know maybe you know like with this episode too Maybe you learned a little bit more about like D &D and and what to do and if you had fun Maybe you laughed a little bit on this episode to get some hobbies make you keep yourself active Tom: Nothing more healthy than having an outlet. ⁓ Shamus: and push it. ⁓ Herbie: Spend time with your friends too, It's great. Shamus: Whether it's Warcraft or D &D or what was another big one? Was another one too. Yeah, that was one you always pick it up there and do it, man. Check it out. Put down the video controllers and actually play like a. Herbie: What, Warhammer? Pick up a stick and start swacking each other. Hell yeah, man. Shamus: and some LARPing. So, all right, everybody, thanks for coming by, guys, and we'll see you guys on the next one. Hurry, say goodbye. Tom: Do some lar- Herbie: Au revoir mon cherie mon pétis!