Latest / Martyr's Row / Ep. 62 - What Does the Epic of Gilgamesh Have to Do With the Bible?

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Ep. 62 - What Does the Epic of Gilgamesh Have to Do With the Bible? · Martyr's Row

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This week on Martyrs' Row, do the Wizard of Oz
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steal its lore from ancient pagan gods? Do we
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go to heaven when we die, or do we turn into
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rats? Is Jimmy the Gilgamesh of our generation?
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I don't know! Let's find out! This week on Martyrs'
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Row! 3, 2, 1! Saint Boniface, apostle to the
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Germans, whose name in youth was Winfred, was
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an English monk who forsook the quiet of his
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homeland to carry the gospel unto the Germanic
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peoples. By preaching the word of God, he turned
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many from the worship of idols and established
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churches and monasteries, and labored to strengthen
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the faith of those newly brought unto Christ.
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It is told that he hewed down a great oak sacred
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to the heathen god Donar, showing the people
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that their idols had no power to defend themselves
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against the truth of the living God. Though advanced
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in years, he returned at last to Frisia, desiring
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to instruct and confirm those who had received
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the gospel. There, as he awaited the newly converted,
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a band of armed men descended upon him and his
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companions. His followers would have taken up
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arms, but Boniface exhorted them to lay aside
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their defense and trust in the Lord. Thus, the
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aged bishop met his end. Not with the sword in
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his hand, but with the gospel he had carried
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among the nations. His blood sealed the witness
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of a lifetime spent in the service of Christ.
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Anno Domini, 754. There's a place where, according
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to tradition, death doesn't work the way it's
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supposed to. Centuries ago, the story goes, a
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young man drowned. His family was devastated,
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but one woman refused to accept that death had
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the final word. She appealed directly to the
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god of death and demanded that the young man
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be returned. The answer was no. His soul had
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already passed beyond her reach. But according
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to the legend, what happened next changed the
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destiny of her people for generations. An agreement
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was made. From that point forward, members of
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her community would supposedly escape the normal
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authority of death. When they died, they would
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enter into another body, remain there for a time,
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and eventually return again as human beings.
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And even today, thousands of pilgrims travel
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to a beautiful sanctuary believing that the evidence
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of that ancient promise is still alive inside.
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Before you enter, you remove your shoes. You
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step barefoot across the threshold onto the marble
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floor. At first, everything looks like you would
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expect from a centuries -old religious sanctuary.
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Worshippers? offerings, ornate carvings, bowls
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filled with milk and food, but then something
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moves in the corner. Something catches your eye.
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You look down and something just ran across the
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floor. Then you see another and another. Then
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you realize they're everywhere. They're underneath
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the tables. They're climbing across the railings.
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They're gathered around enormous bowls drinking
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the milk. They're eating sweets and grain placed
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there by worshipers. They're running between
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people's bare feet and no one is trying to stop
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them. In fact, everyone is being careful not
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to hurt them. Because according to the people
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who come here, these aren't simply animals. They
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may represent someone who once lived, someone's
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father, someone's mother, someone's brother,
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someone who died and according to the tradition
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is now waiting to become human again. So the
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worshipers feed them. They protect them. Food
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touched by them can be considered blessed. And
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if you accidentally kill one, Tradition says
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restitution may require replacing it with an
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image made from a precious metal. But there's
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one more thing everyone is looking for. Among
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the thousands crawling through this sanctuary,
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there are a handful that look different from
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all the others. They're white. And seeing one
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is considered an extraordinary blessing. So picture
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this, you're barefoot. The floor is moving around
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you. Thousands of creatures are running between
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your feet. People are feeding them, protecting
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them, eating food they've touched, believing
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that somehow these creatures are connected to
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the souls of the dead. And you still don't know
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what they are. They're not cows. They're not
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monkeys. They're not birds. They're smaller.
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They hide in the shadows. They crawl beneath
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your feet. They gather by the thousands in almost
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any other building on earth if you saw just one.
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Someone would probably call the exterminator.
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But here, they're sacred. Because the creatures
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covering the floor are rats. Not ten, not a hundred.
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Tens of thousands of rats. Welcome to Deshnoki,
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India. Welcome to the Karni Mata Temple, better
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known as the Rat Temple. And somehow, the rats
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aren't even the strangest part of the story.
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Because to understand why thousands of rats are
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allowed to completely overrun the temple, you
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have to go back more than 500 years to the woman
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whose name is still attached to it, Karni Mata.
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Traditionally dated to the late 14th through
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early 16th century, Karni Mata was a mystic associated
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with Charan community of Rajasthan, who eventually
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came to be regarded by her followers as an incarnation
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of Durga. the Hindu mother goddess associated
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with divine power and protection. Her influence
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wasn't confined to religion. Tradition connects
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her with the Rathor stories, the rulers who established
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some of Rajasthan's great kingdoms, including
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Ra Jada, founder of Jadapar, and Rao Pika, founder
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of Bikanar. Stories say rulers sought her blessing
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and Deshnoki became the center of devotion surrounding
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her. But the strangest tradition connected to
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Karni Mata begins not with kings or kingdoms,
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but with the death of a young man named Lakshman.
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According to the legend, Lakshman drowned while
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attempting to drink from a body of water. Karni
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Mata pleaded with Yama, the Hindu god of death.
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To restore him to life, Yama initially refused
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because Lakshman's soul had already entered his
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domain. What followed, according to the religious
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tradition, was an arrangement that supposedly
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changed what happened to Karni Mata's people
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after they died. Rather than passing into Yama's
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realm, the story says members of Karni Mata's
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community would be reborn temporarily as Kabas,
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the sacred rats that inhabit the temple. and
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would rather return again as human beings. That's
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why understanding the temple simply as a place
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where people worship rats misses what's actually
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happening. For devotees, these animals are tied
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to a cycle of death, reincarnation, and family
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lineage. Feeding them becomes an act of reverence.
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Allowing one to run across your feet can be considered
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fortunate. Food or milk from which In the tradition
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is taken seriously enough that accidentally killing
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one of the sacred rats is said to require restitution
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by replacing it with an image of a rat made from
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silver or gold. What began as a medieval legend
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Surrounding death and reincarnation has therefore
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become something physically visible. Generation
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after generation of people have continued caring
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for a colony now numbering in the tens of thousands.
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But this is where the story becomes bigger than
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a temple of rats. Because underneath everything
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we've just described is one of the oldest questions
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human beings have ever asked. What happens when
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you die? In every civilization, eventually, they
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have to answer it. Every religion has to confront
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it. And humanity has built temples, performed
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rituals, offered sacrifices, buried kings and
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treasures, preserved bodies, prayed to the gods,
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and told stories of reincarnation. All because
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somewhere deep inside us is the knowledge that
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death is coming and the desperate hope that somehow
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death isn't the end. While thousands of people
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traveled to Deshnoki, believing death leads into
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a cycle of reincarnation, the men and women we've
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spent this show talking about walked willingly
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toward execution, believing something radically
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different. They didn't believe they would return
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in another body and begin the cycle again. They
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believed that Jesus Christ had already entered
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death, defeated it. walked out of the grave,
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and promised resurrection to those who belonged
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to him. The rats of Karni Mata and the martyrs
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of the early church may seem like completely
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unrelated stories, but they're answering the
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exact same question. Who has authority over death?
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And maybe that's the real question. Maybe that's
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the real reason this strange little temple in
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the desert matters. Because behind the rats,
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the milk, the reincarnation, and the legend is
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the same question humanity has been asking for
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thousands of years. When I take my last breath,
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what happens next? What have we known? What will
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remain when we are the dead? Let stories be heard.
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Cover the world. Though kingdoms fall, the questions
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live on. We walk through rubble, still searching
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for dawn. Blood and fire, blood and blood. Let
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stories be heard. Through the dust, cover the
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world. More than 4 ,000 years ago, in the ancient
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city of Uruk, there lived a king named Gilgamesh.
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The stories tell us that he was two -thirds God
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and one -third man. He was extraordinarily strong,
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extraordinarily impressive, and unfortunately,
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for the people of Uruk, extraordinarily tyrannical.
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So the gods decided that someone or something
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needed to stand against him. So they created
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Enkidu. Enkidu was a wild man living among the
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animals, drinking at their watering holes and
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running with them through the wilderness. Eventually,
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a woman named Shamhat introduced him to human
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society. And he finds his way to Uruk. There,
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he meets Gilgamesh. And the two men immediately
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fight. They absolutely beat the living daylights
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out of each other. But something strange happens
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afterwards. They become friends. And not just
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friends. Brothers. Equals. The kind of friendship
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that transforms both men. Gilgamesh, who once
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cared primarily about power and reputation, now
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has someone he genuinely loves. And the two decide
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that if they're going to live, they might as
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well make sure the world remembers their names.
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So they go looking for glory. Their first great
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adventure takes them into the cedar forest, where
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they confront its terrifying guardian, Humbaba.
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Gilgamesh and Enkidu defeat him and cut down
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the sacred cedars. Then comes Ishtar. the goddess
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of love, war, and fertility. She takes an interest
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in Gilgamesh, but Gilgamesh rejects her. And
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he doesn't simply say no. He reminds her of what
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happened to the men who came before him. One
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lover became a wolf. Another was abandoned. Another
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was transformed into a creature. What type of
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creature? is still debated. Some scholars actually
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argue that she transformed him into a dwarf.
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Essentially, Gilgamesh looks at one of the most
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powerful goddesses in Mesopotamia and says, I've
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seen how this relationship ends. Ishtar is furious.
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Furious. She sends the bull of heaven against
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Uruk. Gilgamesh and Enkidu kill it. And now the
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gods have had enough. Someone has to pay, and
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they choose Enkidu. Enkidu becomes sick. He dreams
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of the underworld, and eventually, he dies. And
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then, and this is where the story changes. Because
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Gilgamesh has faced monsters. He has faced gods.
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He has faced death in battle. But he has never
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had to face the death of someone he loves. Gilgamesh
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is devastated. he comes to the realization that
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if Enkidu can die, so can Gilgamesh. The great
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king who once sought glory now becomes obsessed
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with the one thing he cannot conquer, death.
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So Gilgamesh leaves Uruk and searches for a man
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who, according to legend, has escaped death itself.
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His name is Utnapishtim. Utnapishtim tells Gilgamesh,
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that long ago the gods sent a great flood to
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destroy mankind. But one of the gods secretly
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warned him to build a boat and fill it with his
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family and the living creatures of the earth.
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The flood came. The world was destroyed. Utnapishtim
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survived. And afterward, the gods granted him
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and his wife immortality. Utnapishtim lived at
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the mouth of the rivers. A mysterious place at
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the edge of the known world, later associated
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by some scholars with the region of Dilman, or
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perhaps the meeting of the great rivers, the
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Tigris and the Euphrates. Gilgamesh travels to
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the edge of the world, crosses the waters of
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death to reach Utnapishtim. And now Gilgamesh
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has one question. Can I have it too? Utnapishtim,
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in a roundabout way, tells him no, but he gives
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Gilgamesh one last opportunity. There is a plant
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at the bottom of the water that can restore a
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man's youth. Gilgamesh retrieves it, and then
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he stops to bathe. While he's in the water, a
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snake smells the plant. It steals it and slithers
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away, shedding its skin as it goes. Gilgamesh
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has lost his chance. He cannot become immortal.
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He cannot defeat death. So he returns to Uruk.
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And when he arrives, he looks upon the city's
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walls. Its temples, its buildings, the civilization
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he helped create. And perhaps for the first time,
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Gilgamesh understands what he couldn't understand
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when he was young. He was never going to live
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forever. But something he built could. His name
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could. His city could. And that is where one
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of humanity's oldest surviving epic stories leaves
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its hero. Not with Gilgamesh conquering death,
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but with Gilgamesh finally understanding what
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it means to be mortal. And what's remarkable
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is that we're still talking about him roughly
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4 ,000 years later. So maybe, in a strange way,
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he got exactly what he wanted. What's up, Stephen?
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So Gilgamesh. Gilgamesh. He's an interesting
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guy. Yeah, you can call him a guy. So that's
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the thing. The thing about Gilgamesh is we don't
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really know. I guess we're so wrapped in, I'm
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so wrapped in my own myths and what I've learned
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that when I hear about Gilgamesh, I can't quite
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wrap my head around all the pieces. Because there's
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a lot of pieces to wrap around. Well, it seems
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like there's elements of later like Greek pantheon
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stuff, things with like Hercules, like demigod
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type stuff. Then there's a flood narrative. There's
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like multiple creation narratives. Yeah. It's
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interesting. And honestly, like within the story,
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there's, as we heard, like there's a lot of pieces
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that kind of fit into all those. Right. Where
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it has a flood myth. Yeah. It has like a hero.
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Yes. Which we see that all through, especially
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the Greek pantheon, we see that consistently
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there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he's kind of like
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an anti -hero. Okay. Where we see in the beginning
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he's kind of a wild creature. Right. Where it's
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like, not that he's a wild man, because that's
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Enkidu, his friend. Right, because a beast is
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created. Yeah, but he's just like this tyrannical
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ruler who's doing whatever he wants, and people
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are like, all right, he's... he's kind of a terrorist
20:26
like what's he doing here that's fair so then
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yeah they create a beast right who eventually
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learns how to talk and then by they go go be
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friends with him yeah by they you mean like the
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gods the gods yeah so then but is Gilgamesh a
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god well according to the story he's two -thirds
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god right one -third man okay which we've talked
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about this in the past okay because that kind
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of goes into like the Nephilim ritual idea Sure,
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but how do we get into thirds? And that's exactly
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how it works. It's because of the Nephilim thing.
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So the way that works is they believe that you
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had the temple woman, we'll call her. Right.
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And then you had the king who was the earthly
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representation of a god. Okay. And then you had
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the god who was behind him. Oh. And so he was,
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so the king. represented two thirds got it and
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the woman was humanity which was one third i
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actually didn't know that yeah that's kind of
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interesting so it's like the human the god behind
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him and the person that he's with wait so that
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was the pagan view of the demigods yes or the
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hybrids yeah okay so that's not jesus at all
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no and actually so this is this this is like
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a side point it's an idea i'm playing with for
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a while okay but it's like it's like that's because
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I think you were the one who actually asked me
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this question six months ago. Okay. Which is
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like, why is the virgin birth so important? I
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don't think I would have asked that. I think
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you asked something about that. Well, why is
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it different? Maybe that's how you said it. Because
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that's the thing is like, if when you look into
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like, all right, if you look at Genesis chapter
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six. Yeah. And then you look at all of like,
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if you look at all of the other ones, it's like,
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there's myth understanding. that there's a relationship
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between a non -human and a human that create
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a mixed or a hybrid version of something. Yeah,
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yeah. But bringing in the idea of two -thirds,
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one -third, that changes what we understand about
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the incarnation. 100%. And that's kind of what
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I mean by that. Because it is such an important
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thing. And actually, it's funny because I've
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asked. other christians that i know like long
22:50
-term yeah very studied christians yeah like
22:53
so why are we so adamant about the virgin birth
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okay they're just like um well because that's
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how it happened it's like yeah but why oh yeah
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i guess my question why is it so vital that it
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was a virgin birth yeah yeah and the reason is
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because well everyone else in ancient history
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believed that it was two thirds, one third. So
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you're actually blowing my mind because you're,
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you're, you're not saying something and what
23:21
you're not saying is the, okay. So that's, but
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Genesis six would have been different though
23:27
too. Absolutely. Then, then the pagan tradition.
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Well, because what you're talking about, so like
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in this instance, potentially you're talking
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about an individual who is in a temple, which
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we could call a temple prostitute. Yes. I was
23:43
avoiding that word. Yes, that's it. But that
23:47
individual is not laying with a non -physical
23:52
being. It's laying with like a human ruler. Right.
23:56
Yeah. Who then in the ritual practice is inviting
24:02
in a... representative of the spiritual realm.
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Or like embodying. Yeah. Yes, exactly. Or possession
24:09
of. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So in that instance,
24:11
it's two to one. Correct. But with Genesis 6,
24:16
it's not two to one. Well, it doesn't say that
24:19
it is or it isn't. That's fair. And I think that's
24:23
where... But the Enochian tradition doesn't say
24:25
it's two to one. Right. Yeah, and I think that's
24:29
where it's like there's some vagueness around
24:31
it. Okay. And then the only reason I say that
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I say that kind of emphatically is like because
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the only like Nephilim ritual it's called. Yeah.
24:41
Yeah. Is the two thirds one third. That's and
24:44
you're talking about like kind of Nimrod and
24:47
beyond. Right. OK. Like from the outside it's
24:51
like OK it's just two humans. Yeah. But then
24:54
there is this like very like ritualistic approach
24:58
to it. that invites another being. Yeah. And
25:02
there's a lot of like, there's a lot of examples
25:04
of people telling stories and experiences or
25:07
telling, um, yeah, there's a, yeah, there's a,
25:10
yeah. Like without getting into certain stories,
25:13
there are, there are some that, that where people
25:16
have had these experiences and talk about the
25:19
presence of, uh, a spirit being in their midst
25:23
while these rituals are taking place. Yes. Um,
25:28
Some of them even say literally Satan showed
25:30
up. Which is crazy. It is crazy. Yeah. But that's
25:35
interesting in this, which I didn't even think,
25:38
you know, talking about Gilgamesh that we would
25:41
even talk about this. I know. But I think it's
25:43
one of those things that like in the ecosphere.
25:46
Yes, thank you. It's the ongoing like ripple
25:49
effect of like this thing snowballs into this
25:52
thing and then all these pieces are kind of putting.
25:55
together a bigger picture of something that's
25:57
like oh i didn't even think about it that way
25:58
because your point with the incarnation is it's
26:03
it's actually uniquely different because it's
26:06
not two -thirds one -third it's 50 50 yeah and
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i think that's what that i think that's why it's
26:11
so important and why god did it the way he did
26:13
okay because like in everything that god did
26:16
he was showing like hey not the way you think
26:18
it should happen but the way i'm gonna do it
26:21
right And I think the fact that it's so... Not
26:24
the way you're used to. Yeah. Yeah. And it's
26:27
like he kind of breaks the expectation every
26:29
single time intentionally to show that it's not
26:32
a formula. Right. It's not some magic or science.
26:36
Yeah. It's actually just because I want to do
26:38
it. Yeah. And I control it all. Okay. So... That's
26:42
us jumping immediately to Christ. Yeah, which
26:45
is easy to do. Yeah, yeah. But for he is always
26:48
on our mind. Yes. But so Gilgamesh. Yeah. So
26:53
Gilgamesh, what you're talking about is 4 ,000
26:56
years ago, roughly 2000, you know, like 21 to
27:03
2200 BC. Yes. Okay. So let's go back to, because
27:10
this is like Gilgamesh, I would say Gilgamesh
27:13
and what's the guy we just talked about? Prometheus.
27:16
Prometheus? Prometheus. Prometheus. Parmesan
27:19
cheese. Can I get some? A little bit on my pasta?
27:23
Yeah. No, no. A lot. So like these guys, like
27:26
whenever, which I feel like this is the common
27:29
thing that people will be like, oh, the Bible
27:31
is just stealing other myths. Sure. Stealing
27:34
other stories. Like these are older creation
27:36
stories. They're almost never identifying. Right.
27:39
They're usually just going, you're just stealing
27:42
other people's stories. It's like, well, if you're
27:45
going to throw accusations, be specific. Well,
27:48
I think it's funny because it's actually just
27:51
talking to someone recently about this. And it's
27:53
like, I think it's funny whenever I hear that
27:56
argument, because to me, it's like it shows you
27:59
don't know what the Bible is actually intending.
28:01
Oh, for sure. Because like when you read it,
28:03
it's like it's actually criticizing every other.
28:05
Well, and that's it's not even like it's really
28:07
just like you don't fully understand the posture
28:10
or the perspective from which the Bible is speaking.
28:14
Right. Which is true. I mean, yeah. And which
28:16
is why sometimes like we read the Old Testament
28:19
and we go like this is kind of confusing. Yeah.
28:22
Because it does. If you actually sit and read
28:25
it, it does feel like it's talking into a conversation
28:29
from one side. Yes. And then it's like, well,
28:32
what's the other side? And then we read their
28:34
ancient, like, I don't know about that. Yeah.
28:36
That's what it's talking about. And then other
28:38
people will go, well, all you need to read is
28:41
the Bible. And you go, look, if you're going
28:45
to read nothing else, then yes, only read the
28:48
Bible. Yeah. But if you're going to read other
28:50
things, then read the other side of the conversation.
28:55
Well, I think even when we talk about studying
28:57
the Bible. Okay. It's like, I feel like. Yes,
29:00
absolutely study the Bible, but how do you do
29:01
that well? Well, you need to know what it's talking
29:04
about. You do, yeah. And what it's referencing.
29:06
For sure. Yeah, because the Old Testament is
29:10
definitely specifically that. Yeah. Where it's
29:13
just like, well, there, I mean, so even we talk
29:16
about this even kind of like the Baal episode.
29:18
Yeah. Where it's like. Baal. Baal. Yeah. Where
29:22
it's like, it just refers to a very generic term.
29:25
Yeah. But it applies to. what, like five or six
29:30
or seven different balls. It's like Elohim. Yeah,
29:33
and it's like, well, why does it do that and
29:35
not reference a specific? Because it's not really
29:38
concerned with a specific because it's talking
29:40
about everything. Yeah. It's like everything
29:42
that falls under this term, that's what I'm talking
29:45
about. For sure. So it's kind of like, it's criticizing
29:47
everything at once. Yeah. So then Gilgamesh.
29:51
So this is one of those ancient myths that when
29:55
people say like, um, the Bible stole these stories
29:58
from ancient culture. This is one of the ones
30:01
that they're referencing, but they usually don't
30:03
just say like, that's just the story of Gilgamesh.
30:06
Right. You know what I mean? Which is like, you
30:08
might as well do that. Like say that, go ahead.
30:11
Cause it does. Yeah. Anyways. Yeah. That's enough
30:15
about like vague, but it's weird that like the
30:18
internet becomes this vague, like throws, throw
30:22
darts at you, but. and make it sound like you
30:26
know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah.
30:29
Not realizing that I'm reading it going, you
30:32
didn't say anything. This is all like extremely
30:35
vague. Yeah. You're like, yeah, but there's other
30:38
books. Yeah, there are. No one said there wasn't.
30:42
You're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we're not
30:45
trying to claim that. And I think that's kind
30:48
of where that comes from though. It's like, I
30:49
think a lot of people saying are like when...
30:52
people over and over again say, well, the Bible
30:54
is the only authority or the Bible is the authority.
30:57
It's like, that's fine. You can say that, but
30:59
that doesn't, that's not somebody saying, therefore
31:03
other things have, don't continue to tell the
31:09
fuller story of what humanity has encountered.
31:13
Yeah. And that's a big part of it. And I think
31:16
it's kind of, it's actually kind of a superpower
31:18
when you look at it that way. Yeah. Cause it's
31:20
like, you actually, don't hear a version of it
31:23
you hear like what do they think yeah exactly
31:25
like this is actually from their brain well and
31:28
we talked a couple episodes ago about um jonah
31:32
yeah going to nineveh believe it or not he'll
31:35
come up again soon oh cool but that idea of like
31:39
but have you ever asked the question like what
31:41
did how did the people of nineveh receive jonah's
31:44
message so easily right It's like, well, if you
31:47
dig into it, there was an Assyrian myth about
31:50
a fish man that would come out of the water and
31:52
bring knowledge. It's like, well, that's what
31:55
Jonah did. So it's like, was that just a prophecy
32:00
about him? So he literally just went in and like
32:03
John says in Revelation, by the word of his testimony,
32:06
he gives this testimony. And when he gives the
32:10
testimony, it's like, well, there you go. Which
32:13
is honestly, I haven't thought about it. this
32:15
way until just now but isn't it kind of funny
32:17
how if we were to pull that into like a modern
32:22
lens yeah so it's like if someone came and told
32:26
you like hey so um someone is gonna come out
32:30
of a fish like a fish guy right and he's gonna
32:33
smell like fish they just keep saying fish yeah
32:36
as many as like many times as they can and he's
32:40
going to tell you like the truth yeah You'd be
32:44
like, okay, so you're a nut. But then it's like,
32:48
wait, but God knew that. And then he's like,
32:52
yeah, I'm going to use that. Yeah, but also it
32:54
wasn't the first interaction between man and
32:58
beast. Right. And that's actually interesting.
33:01
Well, I think that's what's funny. You sound
33:02
like, yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, but think about
33:05
that. But then God's like, cool, I can use that.
33:06
But think about the myth element of that. That
33:10
the relationship between man and beast is what
33:12
all of the myths are about. Yeah, that's fair.
33:14
And what does Genesis say? It says that the serpent
33:18
was craftier than any other beast of the field.
33:20
Yeah. And if you look at all of the ancient myths
33:23
that talk about creation or that talk about floods
33:26
or talk about any of that stuff, like with Gilgamesh,
33:30
there's, is it Enkidu? Yeah. So he's a beast
33:33
-like character. Yes. So then you're like, well,
33:36
wait a minute. So everything is like person and
33:41
beast. Right. But the serpent is craftier than
33:45
any other beast. Man versus nature in a way.
33:47
Yeah, so like when Genesis says that, it's specifically
33:51
speaking about other beasts. Yeah. So like that
33:56
might be a direct shot at Enkidu. Do you know
34:01
what I'm saying? That's interesting, yeah. Because
34:03
it's like, well, that guy or that god was a beast
34:08
created by other gods. Yeah. But the serpent
34:11
was craftier than any other beast of the field.
34:14
That's interesting. Yeah, because like that's
34:16
and that and we've talked about that, especially
34:18
in Genesis one, like calling out Leviathan. Yeah.
34:21
Like calling out these these creatures and these
34:25
beasts and these beings that the Bible is not
34:28
saying they don't exist. Right. They're actually
34:31
saying they do exist because he created them.
34:35
Yeah. And here's their place. Right. Yeah. Yeah,
34:38
they've misrepresented what their purpose was.
34:41
Yeah, and I think that's actually a way better
34:44
way to approach it. Cool. Even when we talk about...
34:48
No, I think that's great. Thanks. Great job,
34:52
great job. I mean, even if we look at it from
34:55
like... We've talked about, even with Exodus,
34:58
it's like the magicians. Right. And it's a very
35:02
modern thing to be like, magic's fake. Right.
35:06
But the Bible says, no, magic's real, but this
35:08
is where it belongs. Yes. And it belongs in hell.
35:12
Well, it's a lesser practice that has limitations.
35:15
Yeah. And so, like, it's not, yeah, like you
35:19
said, it's not fake. It's real. Yeah. But it
35:23
is false. Yeah. It's not the true. It's not for
35:28
the righteous to practice. Right. It's tricks.
35:30
Yeah. It's like, yeah, it's McDonald's instead
35:34
of steak. well it's like even in a way it's like
35:37
no shot at mcdonald's but you know they might
35:41
have their beef's not quite beef i mean i've
35:46
heard some stuff about the grocery stores that's
35:48
fair that's fair double check your deli sections
35:51
guys okay so um google mesh anyway but i mean
35:57
i think that's the other thing about that and
35:59
i think that's where we can get tripped even
36:02
in like a modern view of like, well, we know
36:04
better now because of science. And it's like,
36:07
well, yeah, that's what they're using. But they
36:10
just didn't, it wasn't common at the time. Or
36:12
I'm saying that, I'm assuming that. But it's
36:15
like, my analogy I've used, and I've probably
36:18
said it on the podcast before, which is like,
36:21
if you went today to just some remote tribe that's
36:25
never seen a human outside of themselves ever,
36:27
and you were like, hey, by the way, it's going
36:30
to rain tomorrow. And I was like, how do I know
36:33
that? I looked at the weather app. Yeah. And
36:35
tomorrow at 2 p .m. it rains. They're like, wow,
36:38
you're a god. And they build a statue to you.
36:40
No, I have the weather app on my iPhone. Yes.
36:44
And it's like, well, am I a god? No, I just use
36:47
technology. I don't control the weather. I just
36:51
know its patterns because someone else told me.
36:54
Yeah, you're reading right now what you're doing
36:58
is reading the plot of The Wizard of Oz. Yes.
37:01
No, that's exactly it. Yeah. And it's like when
37:03
we look at the gods, lowercase g in the past,
37:08
it's like, do they have magical powers? No, they
37:11
just have a better understanding of the nature
37:13
of Earth. Right. Yeah, that's true. And they
37:16
use that to make it look like they do. Yeah.
37:18
Because we don't know how they're doing it. Yeah,
37:21
they have. You know, I was thinking about this
37:23
today, actually, because when the serpent in
37:29
the garden. says, eat of the fruit for you will
37:32
not surely die. Yeah. The thing is, is he's crafty,
37:38
but he's actually not lying in that moment. Yeah.
37:42
And the reason he's not lying in that moment
37:44
is because he's right. If they can go over to
37:47
the tree of life. They'll be fine. Then they
37:50
will live forever with the knowledge that they
37:53
just got. Yes. They just have to make it over
37:56
there in time. yeah like they don't well then
38:00
there's also the other side of like you won't
38:01
die yet right yeah yeah there's a time there's
38:07
a time limit well and that's the whole thing
38:09
is like you'll surely not die because you're
38:12
eating the fruit That's fair. You know what I
38:14
mean? It's the other half of the sentence. Yeah.
38:16
But you have to see that other tree over there.
38:18
You have to get over there pretty quick. And
38:20
hurry up. Yeah. But it's the mercy of God that
38:23
would push us out of the garden so that we might
38:26
come to repentance, which is cool. So Gilgamesh.
38:30
Gilgamesh. I think I've said that four or five
38:31
times. You haven't. I haven't let you do it.
38:34
So I think what's interesting about Gilgamesh,
38:37
and I'm actually going to pull my notes up so
38:38
I don't mess this up. Okay. But it's actually
38:40
not. It wasn't originally one book. Got it. Well,
38:48
it probably wasn't a book originally. It was
38:49
a tablet or some scrolls. Was it a tablet? It
38:53
would have been cuneiform. I'm thinking more
38:55
like campfire. Well, it started out that way.
38:59
Was there a guy in a cave that received this
39:02
story? No, it wasn't that magical. That we know
39:08
of. Which actually I think... lends to a later
39:11
episode about this oh cool um kind of fun but
39:14
uh so it's actually the result of a story that
39:18
was uh like written expanded yeah uh translated
39:23
and then preserved okay and that happened for
39:26
thousands of years gotcha so like we'll get into
39:30
that so yeah so leading up to that point um the
39:33
oldest stories of gilgamesh come from ancient
39:35
sumer Okay. Where different stories about him
39:39
were written down in Sumerian. Eventually, these
39:41
stories were translated and adapted into Akkadian,
39:44
the language used throughout Mesopotamia. Sure.
39:47
So it's like, it's just like, there are a lot
39:50
of stories that were written about this character.
39:53
Right. And then they were just passed on and
39:55
then people added to them. Yeah. And, you know,
39:58
if he was a real guy, he probably did more things
40:01
and like, all right. Let's talk about that one
40:02
too. Oh, I see what you're saying. So over time,
40:05
these individual stories were brought together
40:07
into something much closer to the epic we recognize
40:10
today. Got it. And so the version that forms
40:13
the backbone of most modern translation comes,
40:16
modern translations, comes from the library of
40:21
the Assyrian king. You ready for this? Yeah.
40:25
Ashurbanipal. Okay. Ashur... That's probably
40:31
closer. At Nineveh. Oh. Yeah. So, Nineveh was
40:35
destroyed in 612 BC. Oh. Roughly. Okay. Later
40:41
than I thought. And when the city fell, its library
40:43
was buried beneath its ruins. Okay. And so, we'll
40:50
talk about the library in a second. Yeah, if
40:51
we could just have all these libraries. Kind
40:54
of crazy. But the thing is, is like - There's
40:56
a piece about this library. that I'm going to
40:58
talk about, you're going to be like, what? But
41:00
the thing is, is we don't not have, like we have
41:02
the epic of Gilgamesh. Yeah. So like when we
41:06
talk about like lost ancient knowledge of like
41:09
the big one is Alexandria, but then also as we've
41:12
talked about Pergamum. Yeah. Then you're like,
41:17
okay, well now Nineveh. Yeah. And then like who
41:21
knows what's locked up in the Vatican. Right.
41:24
So like you have all of these things and it's
41:26
like, well, did we lose all of this knowledge?
41:28
It's like not really, honestly, because we like
41:32
we're talking about the epic of Gilgamesh right
41:34
now. Yeah. And I think, well, the other piece
41:37
of about it, too, it's like I read that like
41:39
summary of the epic as a whole. And it's one
41:43
of those things where I feel like we think there's
41:46
something out there that's going to answer everything
41:49
for us. Sure. When we really look at it, it's
41:51
like, OK, so here's the story that is. thousands
41:54
and thousands of years old and it's asking the
41:57
same questions we ask today yeah yeah and it's
42:00
like no i think uh even then we've we've had
42:04
the answers yeah we just don't like it well yeah
42:07
and that like that's really it that's the story
42:10
of the gospel yeah and that's the idea that like
42:12
um that like that's a question that i feel like
42:15
i'm often getting to with with people in in conversation
42:19
around religion or around Even around politics
42:23
or around whatever it is, it's like, okay, if
42:26
the burden of proof is on me in the scenario
42:31
and the conversation, what proof are you actually
42:37
looking for? What documentation will prove it
42:43
to you? And the answer is none. Exactly. So that's
42:48
the thing is when you have the conversation,
42:50
it's almost like, all right, We actually shouldn't
42:53
go any further because like in this instance,
42:56
you're the officer and you've asked for my license
43:00
and registration, but instead you've asked for
43:02
my documentation and you're not specific. Yeah.
43:06
So then as I'm giving you documentation, it's
43:11
not satisfying what you're asking for. That's
43:13
right. So it's like, well, if the burden of proof
43:17
is on me, then be specific about the proof you're
43:19
asking for. Yeah. And that's one of the things
43:22
where I'm at now is, like, look, it's that general,
43:26
like, there's older stories in the Bible. Yeah,
43:29
we didn't say that. There wasn't. Right. But
43:32
be more specific about what you're upset about.
43:35
And it's also, like, the Bible's never claimed
43:36
to be right because it's the oldest. Yeah. And
43:39
maybe that's all they're looking for is, like,
43:41
hey, guy, like, that's not, like, if someone
43:45
told you that the Bible was the only and oldest
43:49
story. We're not saying that. We actually don't
43:53
agree with that. We're just saying it's the right
43:54
story. And so is it. Yes, exactly. I will say
44:01
real quick too, I think that's something that's
44:04
very unique to Christianity as a whole versus
44:08
I would dare to say any other religion because
44:12
it's the hardest one to actually believe. Fair.
44:16
And the reason why it's the hardest, in my opinion,
44:19
is because it says you can't do anything to actually
44:22
earn the right answers. Yes. Whereas when we
44:26
look at other religions, it's like, okay, yeah,
44:28
if you do X, Y, Z, then you'll reach nirvana
44:31
or you'll reach this higher level of understanding
44:34
or you'll get the information, you'll be satisfied,
44:37
you'll be successful. And it's like, yeah, that's
44:40
really easy. Yeah. Because at least for my personality
44:43
type, it's like... Yeah, I like doing things
44:45
myself. And if you tell me, if you just work
44:48
harder, it's like, perfect, I love working. I
44:50
work as hard as anybody out there to get what
44:52
I want. But the Bible's like, you can't work
44:55
hard enough. And it's like, what are you talking
44:57
about? So, Paul, the problem with Christians
45:00
is... Yes, go on. There's a lot, but... The problem
45:04
with Christians is we don't start from a Jewish
45:09
standpoint. And because we don't start from a
45:12
Jewish standpoint, being grafted into the family
45:16
of God as Gentiles, Christians are in a position
45:21
of going, well, we don't have to do the customs
45:24
of the Jews, where the Jewish believer does continue
45:29
in the customs. And so we actually decide that
45:34
we don't need to partake in... levitical laws
45:39
we don't need to partake in which i've i've had
45:42
some new ideas about that even and i'm with you
45:44
yeah i think even before you say what they are
45:46
what's the and for me it's always like what's
45:49
the why behind it well but but here's very uh
45:51
but here's my thing white color like look at
45:54
but look at look at the book of acts like look
45:56
at anybody in the new testament and the truth
45:59
is is like all of them are working really hard
46:02
yeah after salvation yeah and none of them Like
46:07
all of them are continuing to remind us like
46:10
salvation is by grace through faith. It is by
46:15
the works of God so that no man can boast. That's
46:18
right. And if you, why are they continually saying
46:21
that? It's not because they're standing around
46:24
doing nothing. Right. It's because they're working
46:26
so hard. Yeah. And they're going, oh, don't mistake
46:31
my works for my salvation. That's right. My salvation
46:34
doesn't come from my works. I'm working hard
46:37
as a result of my salvation and what I feel like
46:41
I need to do because I've been saved. And I think
46:44
that's, like you just said, that is the hardest
46:46
part to get because a lot of times it can come
46:49
across as hypocritical. For sure. Because there
46:52
are a lot of churches out there that mean well,
46:54
but they can send the message of, hey, yeah,
46:58
you can't do anything to earn salvation, but
47:00
if you don't do these things, you're probably
47:02
not saved. Sure. And it's like, wait, what? Yeah.
47:06
And you teeter between doing the things and then
47:08
living in grace. Yeah. Yeah. That's tough. Yeah.
47:12
All right. So Gilgamesh. But yeah, Gilgamesh.
47:14
That one's very pastoral. Yeah. So Gilgamesh.
47:19
So, I mean, this is going to end up being like
47:21
a three, four, five part series. He's actually
47:24
a very significant character. Well, but the thing
47:27
is, is like, this is not a flood myth. This is
47:30
not a creation myth. Correct, but those elements
47:32
exist within it. They all exist within it. Yeah.
47:35
So maybe the question right now is like, okay,
47:40
origin of the story. What is the story within
47:44
origin of the story? Well, it is kind of like
47:47
if I was to break it down into one singular ideal
47:50
that the epic of Gilgamesh portrays, it is how
47:56
does man live forever? Okay. The Fountain of
48:01
Youth. I think that's really what it is. And
48:03
then Gilgamesh, a little teaser in here, which
48:06
I said in the reading, he discovers that living
48:11
forever is not possible. Like, I can't not die.
48:15
Well, now I just want to turn the episode off.
48:16
Oh, my bad. Okay. He can not die. Well, then
48:24
so for him, it's like, then the perspective changes
48:27
at the end. So it's like, okay, so if I have
48:29
to die at some point, how do I never be forgotten?
48:34
And for him, that's living forever. That makes
48:38
sense. And then so it's like, and that's kind
48:40
of the, it's the idea of legacy that we carry
48:42
today, where it's just like, okay, how is my
48:44
name carried on? Well, he did a good job. We're
48:47
still talking about him. He did a great job.
48:50
4 ,000 years later. Which, I mean, should we
48:52
not talk about him, actually? Okay, so from what
48:55
I understand... Actually, stop watching this
48:57
now. Oops, click. Wait, did we just turn your
49:01
TV off? Oh, no. That would be crazy. That would
49:05
be crazy. Set that up. It'd be like Adam Sandler
49:08
in Switch. Click. I don't know. Anyways. Okay.
49:14
Great movie, by the way. Great movie. So that
49:18
era of Adam Sandler is really good. Yeah. Anyways.
49:23
Okay. So Gilgamesh, though. Yeah. Let's finish
49:30
your thought about Nineveh. Let me talk about
49:32
this first. Okay. Because it would be good to
49:38
like. was he an actual person or myth only? How
49:42
does that bridge the gap? And probably the way
49:47
it bridges the gap is the reason why we're still
49:49
talking about him. I kind of want to save that
49:52
question for another episode. Teaser coming up.
49:56
That's a teaser because I feel like there's a
49:57
lot. More than we have time for to go into that.
50:00
So let's wrap this discussion with... Yeah, let
50:02
me set this up a little bit. So what I'm going
50:04
to do first is I want to kind of talk more about
50:07
just like how did we discover the story again?
50:09
Okay. Because we kind of talked about like, all
50:11
right, here's kind of where it came from. Yeah.
50:12
And then I want to add some fun like Bible timelines
50:15
into it. Okay. But let's like... Which is fun.
50:18
Let's like... But I'm going to anchor it here.
50:21
Okay. Yeah. I'm going to anchor it here. Yeah.
50:22
Because we can take most of what you just said
50:25
into the next episode. A hundred percent. Okay.
50:27
So we've talked about Nineveh being destroyed.
50:30
Yeah. So in 1839. Okay. A lot later than 612
50:36
BC. Yes. 1839 AD. Okay. A young Englishman. So
50:41
like 200 years ago. Yeah. So not long for us.
50:45
Yeah. Long for them. A young Englishman named
50:49
Austin Henry Laird discovered these tablets during
50:54
an excavation of the ruins. Those tablets were
50:56
the Epic of Gilgamesh. Most likely making him
51:00
the first to read this story in over 2 ,000 years.
51:04
Crazy. Which is wild. Yeah. So the problem was
51:09
that many of those tablets were broken. Okay.
51:12
So some stories were incomplete. Some sections
51:16
were missing entirely. And in some places, scholars
51:19
have had to compare different copies of the story
51:22
from different periods in different cities to
51:24
figure out what the original text probably said.
51:27
Sure. And if you read a lot of translations,
51:31
there are sections that are going to be in brackets
51:34
because they're like, maybe this is what the
51:35
sentence was. Gotcha. And then you'll find where
51:38
there's weird time jumps because they just don't
51:40
have that. part of the story at all. Yeah, makes
51:43
sense. So it's an interesting read, but it's
51:46
worth the read. Yeah. So when we read the Epic
51:49
of Gilgamesh today, we're not reading a single
51:52
ancient manuscript. We're essentially looking
51:54
at a puzzle assembled from pieces that survived
51:57
across thousands of years. Okay, right. Which
52:01
I think is very interesting. Yeah. Because when
52:04
we're looking at it, it's like, okay, here's
52:05
the story and we're able to take so much from
52:07
it. Yeah. But we don't even have the full story.
52:09
That's true. And I think that's something that
52:12
we can sometimes not understand today, especially
52:16
when we look at history. Yeah. It's like we don't
52:19
actually have all of our history. So I wonder
52:22
if though with something like Gilgamesh, because
52:25
we have so many different elements within it.
52:27
Yeah. I wonder if there was a like, like Genesis
52:31
has 50 chapters in it. I wonder if there was
52:35
a complete like Gilgamesh Bible. Oh, interesting.
52:40
Where it was like a, here is this origin that
52:44
then makes its way all the way to real time now.
52:48
That's interesting. Because my guess is that's
52:51
probably what it was. It was probably different
52:54
pieces added in along the way that got you all
52:57
the way to real time. I'll say short answer,
53:00
yes. There was like a full. Okay. So yeah, I'll
53:04
get into that. Okay. But before I do that, I
53:07
want to throw this other piece in here. Okay.
53:09
I think it's so cool. So the story, this is kind
53:13
of our Bible tie -ins here. Okay. So the story
53:16
of Gilgamesh appears to have been quite popular
53:19
in Ur around 2150 to 2000 BC. Oh. That was a
53:24
long time ago. It was. But does that date sound
53:26
familiar? They do. Yeah. So this was roughly
53:28
the same time that Abraham was growing up in
53:32
the city of Ur. Right. So with all of that, it's
53:35
very likely that Abraham grew up. hearing this
53:38
story. Well, so that's the other, like when we
53:40
asked, when we talked about like, uh, the people
53:43
of Nineveh knowing, uh, when, when Jonah shows
53:46
up. Yeah. Cause I, I have often asked the question
53:51
when I was younger, um, how, why, like, why does
53:57
Abram not go, wait, who, who are you? How did
54:02
you find me? And what are you talking about?
54:04
Yeah. Like, how did he just all of a sudden follow
54:07
Yahweh? Right. And because he comes from Ur of
54:14
the Chaldeans, which is actually... Even it says
54:18
in Joshua that Abraham's fathers worshipped other
54:21
gods. Yeah, yeah, they would have. Okay, so yeah,
54:25
they were very devoted to these other gods. Yeah.
54:28
And within, like, even Mesopotamian, they're...
54:31
like pantheon, if you will, it's a Greek term.
54:33
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like within their godhead,
54:36
it's like there were elements of it that could,
54:40
in a very twisted way, resemble Yahweh. Well,
54:43
I don't think it's much different than Paul in
54:45
Rome. Yeah, that's fair. It's like there are
54:49
these people who are seeking spiritual guidance.
54:53
Yeah. And Yahweh probably existed in an unknown
54:58
name. Yeah, I think so. The same way that they
55:00
did in Rome. You know what I mean? And I think
55:03
like that's, I guess that's kind of what I was
55:04
getting at. It's like there are elements within
55:06
the Mesopotamian gods that borrow from the characters
55:11
of Yahweh. Well, they have to. Of course they
55:13
do because they're trying to be him. Right. And
55:16
then you have this unknown God. And they're trying
55:18
to overshadow him. Yeah. Right. And then you
55:21
have this unknown God who reaches out to this
55:22
guy who's probably searching in some capacity
55:25
for truth. And then he's like, wait, who's this?
55:29
Right, and everything that Yahweh asks him to
55:33
do is familiar to him. Yes. But he's hoping that
55:39
this God is different. Yeah. And it turns out
55:44
he is. Very different. But yeah, so that is interesting
55:47
because the other interesting piece about that
55:50
is that, like, you know, it says that Abram comes
55:53
down into the land of Canaan. Yeah. But he doesn't,
55:58
he... The reason he comes down into the land
56:00
of Canaan is not because Ur is north of Israel.
56:05
He comes down because they move north out of
56:09
Ur into another place before they come into the
56:12
land of Canaan. Yeah. So Ur of the Chaldeans,
56:16
that area is actually southern modern -day Iraq,
56:20
which is the same area of where... the famous
56:28
Hillary Clinton, uh, emails. Do you know about
56:34
this? Yes. Yeah. The freedom of information act,
56:38
like requesting about the tomb of, or the, the,
56:43
like the bones. No, it's like, it's the burial
56:47
site, but it was more so not necessarily the
56:49
burial of, or the burial site of, but the, um,
56:53
the sacrificial. burial location of Gilgamesh.
57:00
Yes, that's right. And that was in the southern
57:04
Iraq. Yeah. Which is the same area from where
57:07
Abram's from. Which is like, what? Yeah, which
57:10
is kind of interesting. So you go like, well,
57:12
where does Abram, who becomes Abraham, who becomes
57:16
the father of Israel. Yeah. He actually comes
57:22
from modern day Iraq. Yeah. Which is weird. It's
57:26
a very weird idea when we put in modern geography.
57:29
Yeah, 100%. Yeah. It's also weird when you look
57:33
down and you go, okay, Isaac and Ishmael. Yeah.
57:39
Well, Isaac and Ishmael sit right there. Yeah.
57:43
Ishmael's descendants are in Iraq. Right. Yes.
57:48
Wait, what? Yeah. Yeah, kind of interesting.
57:51
So here's the last piece, and this is more. Of
57:55
just like a fun piece, because I mentioned Jonah.
57:57
Yeah, yeah. We've talked about Nineveh. Yes.
57:59
So the Assyrian king, Ashurbanipal. Okay. I'm
58:06
sure you remember him. Built the library of Nineveh
58:10
throughout his reign from 668 to 627 BC. Okay.
58:16
And he's the one who ordered copies of all the
58:19
great stories, including the Epic of Gilgamesh.
58:23
And what I think is interesting because you mentioned
58:25
the Library of Alexandria. Yes. And what's interesting
58:30
is we've talked about this with the Pentateuch.
58:33
Yeah. Sorry, the... Septuagint. Septuagint, thank
58:36
you. Where it's like, well, why did they want
58:38
that? Because they wanted a copy of all the great
58:41
stories. Which seems to be consistent because
58:43
Pergamon was like that as well. Yeah. And so
58:46
you have these libraries, they're trying to build
58:48
these great libraries full of knowledge and wisdom.
58:50
Yeah. And Nineveh was no different. Right. And
58:54
so what's interesting about this is Jonah traveled
58:57
to Nineveh around 750 BC. Okay. So this was before
59:01
the library. But what's interesting is at this
59:05
point Gilgamesh was already a great story at
59:08
the time. Right. And so it's very possible that
59:13
Jonah was also very familiar with the story of
59:15
Gilgamesh. Okay. And so what I think is interesting,
59:18
the reason I bring that up, is because like...
59:20
In Jonah's day, Gilgamesh was already considered
59:23
ancient literature. Right. But then we also have
59:27
these two biblical parallels between Abraham
59:30
when the story was very popular toward its inception.
59:34
Sure. Till when the story kind of vanishes off
59:37
the planet with Jonah until the 1800s. And that's
59:42
what I think is so interesting to look at it
59:44
in a biblical timeline. Oh, because Nineveh turns
59:46
and bows to Yahweh. Yeah. That's kind of interesting.
59:50
And then they end up getting destroyed after
59:51
Jonah by the Babylonians in 600 BC. And so it's
59:57
like only 100 years later, Nineveh is kind of
1:00:01
wiped out. Yeah, but then Babylon adapts a lot
1:00:03
of those myths. Correct. Like Gilgamesh carries
1:00:07
on through Babylon. And actually we see that
1:00:10
carry a little bit further into even like the
1:00:15
name Gilgamesh. Yeah. I think I have some notes
1:00:20
on this. Wasn't it Bilgamesh? Yes. You are correct.
1:00:27
So the Sumerian version of it was Bilgamesh.
1:00:32
Correct. Which would have been more in relationship
1:00:34
and alignment with a potential real king that's
1:00:38
in the king's list. Well, yeah. So the Akkadian
1:00:41
is Gilgamesh, which we know today, and the Sumerian
1:00:44
is Bilgamesh, like you said. Yes. So what's interesting,
1:00:47
and this is just a fun little piece that I didn't
1:00:50
even know if we'd get to, which is modern name
1:00:53
equivalent. Oh, to right now? Yeah. And then
1:00:59
going back a little bit further. Please tell
1:01:01
me it's Paul. Darn it, it's Stephen. I swear.
1:01:06
It's like Jimmy. So scholars generally translate
1:01:10
the etymology of Gilgamesh to mean the ancestor
1:01:12
is a hero. or the elder is a young man wait weird
1:01:17
answers right wait okay the elder is a hero is
1:01:22
that what you said the ancestor is a hero the
1:01:23
ancestor is a hero that makes sense the elder
1:01:26
is a young man the elder is a young man so benjamin
1:01:29
button yes okay emphasizing youth but wisdom
1:01:33
right okay so physical youth uh but spiritual
1:01:39
wisdom yes yeah and so Modern name equivalents.
1:01:45
Gilbert. Yeah. Bilbo Baggins. No way. King. That
1:01:56
would be awesome. Lord Voldemort. That would
1:02:01
check out. So modern name equivalent meanings.
1:02:06
This is based on the meanings, not the etymology
1:02:08
of the names. Okay, sure. Would be Albert or
1:02:11
Alonzo. Which is Germanic or Spanish names meaning
1:02:15
noble and illustrious or ready for battle, echoing
1:02:20
a foundational heroic ancestor. Albert. Yeah.
1:02:24
I like that. Evander. You don't hear that very
1:02:27
often. Holyfield? A Greek name meaning bow warrior
1:02:31
or good man, historically tied to a wise hero
1:02:35
ancestor who founded a city. But you know Evander
1:02:38
Holyfield? Oh, yeah. Is like a famous boxer.
1:02:43
Oh, that's right. Yeah. That's interesting. Actually,
1:02:47
that checks out. And the other one is Titus or
1:02:52
Charles. Okay. Titus is interesting. Yeah. That
1:02:55
one's biblical. It is. Names that carry the heavy
1:02:59
connotation of honorable leader or strong slash
1:03:02
freeman. And so a name, this is on another side,
1:03:08
another point, a name that. organically transformed
1:03:11
into later cultures is most closely related to
1:03:15
Balikia. Okay. In the Arabian Nights or 1001
1:03:22
Nights. Arabian Nights. Which is actually where
1:03:24
we get the lone story of Aladdin. Okay, the lone
1:03:28
story. There's another word for it, but I can't
1:03:31
think of it right now. There is a famous Arabic
1:03:34
tale about a young king named... Belukia, who
1:03:39
goes on a massive, fantastical quest across the
1:03:43
seas to find the Garden of Immortality. Sound
1:03:46
familiar? Odysseus? Yes, but also, it's like,
1:03:51
this is Gilgamesh. Fair. So, Near Eastern linguists
1:03:57
have mapped out that Belukia is an Arabic linguistic
1:04:03
distortion. of the Hurrian Sumerian pronunciation
1:04:06
of Bilgamesh. It's like, well, that's interesting.
1:04:11
So Aladdin is based off Gilgamesh? No, no, no,
1:04:15
sorry. In the collection of the book Arabian
1:04:17
Nights, Aladdin's one of those tales. Got it.
1:04:20
Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is a different one in
1:04:22
there. Got it. But what's interesting is like,
1:04:24
okay, so he travels across these seas to find
1:04:26
the Garden of Immortality. That's literally what
1:04:28
Gilgamesh did. Yeah. Yeah, fair. And then what's
1:04:32
interesting is that other names that carry the
1:04:34
same mythological weight, as far as not necessarily
1:04:38
a name etymology, but just character tie -in,
1:04:42
is Alexander the Great, King Arthur, and Odysseus.
1:04:47
Yeah, nailed it. Yeah, those are the same kind
1:04:49
of archetypal characters that we see from one
1:04:53
of the oldest stories in history, which is Gilgamesh.
1:04:57
Yeah, cool. Well, so we have like seven more
1:05:01
episodes on Gilgamesh. Yeah. And I think so far
1:05:04
we realize that we're not that different from
1:05:05
what we were like 6 ,000 years ago. No. And like
1:05:09
everybody was always doing the same thing. And
1:05:12
asking the same questions. Yeah. Falling for
1:05:14
the same mistakes. Yeah. So what question are
1:05:17
you asking? Three, two, one.