Latest / PNW Haunts & Homicides / Susi Larsen: Murder Before the Wedding | Lake Oswego

Transcript

Susi Larsen: Murder Before the Wedding | Lake Oswego · PNW Haunts & Homicides

0:00
When she didn't show up for work the following day, her co-workers and fiance knew immediately
0:09
that something was way off.
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This is the part of the movie in the beginning where everything is nice and planning a wedding
0:19
and everything is wonderful.
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I almost forgot that this was going to be a bad story.
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And then now she's gone missing and I'm like, oh yeah, the sucks.
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Yeah, let's just suck.
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[Music]
0:36
Hi Chris.
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Hi, Caitlyn.
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Hello creepy people.
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Hello.
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Did I do it right?
0:45
You did good.
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Yeah, it's, you know, it's just the...
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I've listened to enough of these.
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That's right, that's right.
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It's, you know, it's just the Mrs. Doubtfire.
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Hello.
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Pretty good.
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Yeah, pretty good.
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You're the expert here.
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I mean, I've been doing it for a while now.
1:03
If you're new to our creepy corner of the world, this is PNW Haunts and Homicides, where we
1:10
chat about true crime, the paranormal and all things creepy in the Pacific Northwest.
1:18
We do a tarot reading at the end for deeper insight into this episode, so make sure you stick
1:23
around if you're into that.
1:25
They are into it.
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I think it's been established.
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Yeah.
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Just making sure.
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Oh yeah.
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No, we say that all the time.
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We're like, you know, if you're into it and you are.
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Oh, I'm into it.
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Yeah.
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Oh my gosh.
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I can't believe it's taken this long to drag you on to the show.
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Yeah.
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A lot of behind the scenes stuff.
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No kidding.
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But now I'm sitting in the hot seat and...
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Yeah.
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A little awkward.
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I don't know what to do with my hands.
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Oh, classic.
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Classic.
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Well, for those of you that don't know, well, first of all, this is not Cassie.
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I think we were pretty clear about that at the top.
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Fintel.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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This is my fiancee.
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Chris.
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How's it been next week?
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Yeah.
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That's right.
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Exactly.
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By the time this comes out, I believe it's a bit of a coincidence.
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I believe we will actually be married.
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So...
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Fintel.
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Exactly.
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Unless he gets really upset about this episode tonight.
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We'll see how this goes.
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Yeah.
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We'll just see how this goes.
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I do sort of have a knack for stumbling upon.
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I wasn't looking for this per se, but I think I found what I imagine is probably your particular
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brand of nightmare fuel.
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So...
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Oh, okay.
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Yeah.
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So you're welcome.
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Yeah.
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I think I'm ready.
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Okay.
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I'll do okay.
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He's like, "Yeah.
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I've been listening to your episodes for a while now.
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I think I know what to expect."
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And yet every week, Cassie walks in and out of here, just a totally different person.
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Yeah.
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She does look different to me every single week.
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I don't know what you've been doing to that poor woman.
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I know.
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I know.
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Well, she's going to get to hit the easy button with this one.
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Yeah, next.
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Yeah.
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She has already read the notes for this case.
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Oh, okay.
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Yeah.
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I have not read them.
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I know.
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That's by side.
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Yeah.
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Usually you're the one that reads them for me, so.
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I do.
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Proofreads for me a lot.
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I think there's not much to proofread, honestly.
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Yeah.
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I'm just getting a sneak peek.
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Yeah.
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Sometimes he catches some really egregious typos.
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I am a grammar hound for that stuff.
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It's not even grammar.
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It's just like who was typing this?
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I drunk monkey.
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I was going to say you, but I want to be careful what I say here.
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Exactly.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Oh, my goodness.
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Okay.
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Well, I don't think we really have any business.
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Nothing that's new and pressing anyways.
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So we're recording this after dark.
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It's not actually dark outside, but basically what we mean to say, we're recording this at EOD
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and to business day.
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So, you know, Chuck Chuck.
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We've already had a long day at work.
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Yeah.
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We know.
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We usually do this on the weekend.
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That's right.
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Yeah.
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It'll like all day, all day for one of our weekend days, typically.
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This last weekend we got to play hooky for the batch party.
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Yeah.
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That was a lot of fun.
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We went to Hotel Oregon over in McMinnville.
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We'll post pictures and some videos and some fun stuff from the weekend.
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We're looking at right now one of the fun stuff.
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Oh, that candle.
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Yeah, my gift from one of my gifts from Cassie.
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She did herself.
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I have my bridal yeti, of course.
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I'm jealous.
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I know.
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Bridal beverages.
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Very important.
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Gotta stay hydrated.
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Yeah.
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No.
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No.
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So.
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And we'll set up the tarot camera here in a little bit and everybody will get to see
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this very saucy candle.
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I don't know what to say about that.
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It's making me a little flush.
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I'm blushing over here.
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Oh.
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My virgin eyes.
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Oh, that's right.
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Yeah.
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Do you think anyone's buying that, sir?
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I'm doing my best to sell it.
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Okay.
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Well, let's see if anyone's buying.
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Okay.
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I'm going to get into the story for today so that we can hopefully get to bed before
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midnight tonight.
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Yeah.
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We'll see.
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Fingers crossed.
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So likely.
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I mean, there we go.
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Crossing them a little bit harder, just to really make sure.
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Ugh.
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Let's not sink in.
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Okay.
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The summer of 1996 was an incredibly happy time for 24-year-old graphic designer, Susi
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Larsen.
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At the time she lived in the Lake Oswego area and was preparing for her wedding that September
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to her fiance, Keith Hippley.
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Wow.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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I see why you saved this episode for me.
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Yeah.
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I was like, you have got to be kidding me.
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We are preparing for a wedding.
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That's true.
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Yeah.
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I mean, and how strange, like, you know, right here in our very own Pacific Northwest,
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neck of the woods.
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Mm-hmm.
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Mm-hmm.
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Not far from home.
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Yeah.
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I wonder if there are any other parallels.
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It's like there is.
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Actually, I don't know that there are tons.
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Some not far from, you know, a lot of places that we know of and have visited, but...
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Oh, it's enough for me.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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That's enough.
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That's enough.
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We don't need more.
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Yeah.
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The couple had met when they both worked at Mattel in California.
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She worked for the Barbie Division and he was on with Hot Wheels.
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On brand.
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Yeah.
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Very gender normative, but like, you know, that's okay.
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Those that knew Susi best, like her sister Mindy, as well as her father, described her as
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optimistic and friendly if it times a bit too trusting.
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Okay.
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Okay.
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Sorry, like, there could have been like at least one more parallel.
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Arguably.
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Yeah.
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That reminds me of somebody I can't quite put my finger on it.
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You can drink if you want to.
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Oh, okay.
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Yeah.
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You can drink in a lot of this.
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Yeah.
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You can still drink.
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I got to get through this.
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I don't know what I'm doing.
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I'm not a professional like you and Cassie.
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You're doing just fine.
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On August 27th, she went to visit a male acquaintance that she'd met through mutual
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friends.
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He had reportedly agreed to make her a pair of earrings for her upcoming wedding.
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Some source material says that he was supposed to be making jewelry for her bride's
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mates.
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Okay.
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So I don't know either, either or maybe both.
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So it's a little unclear.
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I think that's one particular detail that like detectives are probably like, yeah, yeah,
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yeah, jewelry, you know, like cool.
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You shopping.
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You shopping.
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Exactly.
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This man was known within her friends group, including her roommate, though Susie personally
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didn't know him very well.
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Oh, this is so funny.
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Okay.
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So this is if my notes, at the time that I was writing this, it says, I just got my own wedding
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earrings this week.
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I don't think I even knew that.
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Yeah, they're really pretty.
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So maybe I'll have to grab them so that we can take a picture with them on the tarot altar.
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There you go.
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Yeah.
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When she didn't show up for work the following day, her co-workers and fiance knew immediately
10:20
that something was way off.
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This is the part of the movie in the beginning where everything is nice and they're planning
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and wedding and everything is wonderful.
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I almost forgot that this was going to be a bad story.
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And then now she's gone missing and I'm like, oh, yeah, the sucks.
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Yeah, it's just like it does suck.
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Yeah.
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I know it's it.
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It kind of hit me partway through because I was like, oh, you know, thinking about our
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wedding planning and then I was like, oh, that's kind of a bummer.
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She just was a really reliable person.
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Obviously, it sounds like loved her job.
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Graphic design sounds like such a cool job.
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Especially in the 90s.
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Yeah.
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That was real new.
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Yeah.
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So, I mean, she had a really cool job.
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She lived in this, you know, hip little part of town.
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She was about to get married.
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She was just really crushing it lifelys.
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So it just wasn't like her to not show up to work.
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Yeah, sure.
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No one seemed to have knowledge of her whereabouts between her appointment on the 27th and the following
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day.
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Her family and friends were quick to act on their concerns and they were furiously putting
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up flyers all over the Lake Oswego and Tualatin area pretty much right away.
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While concerned about her inexplicable disappearance, they were still somewhat hopeful that she would
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be found and have the wedding of her dreams to look forward to.
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Of course.
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Yeah.
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And of course, a lifetime of wedded bliss with the man that she loved so dearly.
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There had been a strange encounter on Goat Mountain East in Molalla involving a group
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of youths, four days prior, but little information seems to be available about what specifically
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occurred.
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So I don't know if they just encountered each other on a hiking trail, but law enforcement
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determined the individuals and whatever that interaction was had nothing to do with her
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disappearance fairly quickly.
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Hooligans.
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Hooligans.
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I know.
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Hooligans and their shenanigans.
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Yeah.
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They turned their attention to exploring other avenues with the case.
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The man she'd planned to meet that day, Billy Oatney Jr. was first interviewed by police
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on September 2nd, where he claimed he hadn't seen her in three weeks, which is a little
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weird for somebody who probably saw her about a week ago, but that's cool.
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The math ain't math, and.
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Yeah, the math ain't math, and that's right.
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Not even if you use girl math.
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Seems a little odd, but maybe they didn't meet as planned.
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I mean, I think they kind of had to take a look at that, you know.
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Even though the friend said, oh yeah, she was supposed to go meet up with him.
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It's possible.
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It just didn't work out.
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It was still early in the investigation, so law enforcement hadn't gathered much to go
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on and likely had little more than vague suspicions about Billy's statement.
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However, that would quickly change.
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A chain reaction was set in motion by a routine traffic stop in Milwaukee.
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They're never routine.
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They're.
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They're all but routine.
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They're always routine.
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That is how all of these guys get caught.
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All of them like broken tail light.
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Yeah, God.
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Just, you know, like maybe make sure that your tail lights work.
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You know, like they always say like if you're going to be committing crime, like make sure
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your taxes are straight, make sure your brake lights work.
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I don't want to be accused of creating like a how to guide here, but like it's a little
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infuriating that people are that dumb.
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Seems like common sense.
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Yeah, but you know, it stays stupid.
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That's a thing I've heard.
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It's working out for the rest of it.
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It really is.
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It really is.
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The officer noted that when he pulled Billy over that his license plate light was not
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working.
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Wow.
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Yeah.
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That's not a thing that you usually get pulled over for.
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Yeah, it didn't sound like it to me.
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Sure.
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This wasn't a tip.
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You know, nothing that I read indicated that they were really sitting on this guy at this
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point and Milwaukee.
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I don't know that they were involved in any efforts with the case at that point either.
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So I think this is just like a dumb luck thing where maybe there was something else about
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the vehicle that looked suspicious or yeah, I don't know.
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But a cursory search on the ID he presented produced nothing.
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Still usually these days the police have bigger fish to fry.
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I would say.
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Wilford Johnston, his passenger, was a different story.
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You might call him that bigger fish at this stage at least as he had an outstanding warrant
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for a parole violation at the time.
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So they're like, oh, great.
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It's a two-fer.
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Nice.
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Yeah.
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I don't know if they ticketed him for the license plate light thing, but I don't know.
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Maybe.
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Maybe?
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We're going to say it happened.
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Yeah.
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Honestly, again, like bigger fish to fry here, but I was curious.
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I just, you know, I felt like there were more important things to focus on.
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The officer also spotted a duffel bag that the pair appeared to be particularly fixated
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on, which is so funny because I feel like that's like a little kid who's like trying to sneak
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a cookie or something and they're like, like looking at it but trying not to look like
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they're looking at it.
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Right.
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And it's always super obvious.
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A duffel bag outside of the gym is always suspicious.
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I feel like, yeah.
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And they apparently didn't look like they were more than likely coming from or to the gym.
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So Billy allowed the officer to search the bag when asked, which is another one of the
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dumbest things that I can think of somebody doing in his shoes, but he inventoryed the items
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inside a replica gun and a large double-bladed knife along with a pellet gun, a stun gun
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and duct tape.
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Oh, and also a lock pick and binoculars, some large scissors and also condoms.
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Uh-huh.
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Okay.
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So nothing to worry about.
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Yeah.
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Like what the fuck?
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Carry on.
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So creepy as like that isn't no.
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Just I don't I don't want to know.
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No rope.
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I you know what?
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I was thinking I'm like, there's no gloves.
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There's no rope.
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So it's fine.
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It's probably fine.
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Yeah.
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But I seriously, when I was reading this, I'm like, that is almost as creepy as finding a
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long buried Israel keys.
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Kill kit.
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Like except this dumbass apparently thought his duffel bag contained no red flags.
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He was like, there's no gloves.
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There's no rope.
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It's fine.
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This is my state like I take this with me everywhere.
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Who doesn't?
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I mean, yeah.
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Got one in my trunk right now.
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Chris is like, I have nothing to say about that.
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Chris is like, I have second thoughts.
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Now, as probably literally no one is surprised to learn, these two jackalopes are firmly planted
18:52
on law enforcement's radar.
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They had just become persons of interest in Susi's case.
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Obviously, it wasn't like there was an official announcement at the time, but anyone who was
19:05
on the fringes of this front group that had an awareness of Susi's scheduled meeting
19:11
with Billy.
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And then his subsequent questioning, as well as his friends arrest, frankly, they had to
19:21
be shitting their pants.
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It's not looking good.
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No, it's not looking good at all.
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Law enforcement already had Wilford, his buddy in custody due to his outstanding warrant.
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When they listened to taped conversations between Wilford and Billy from jail, they learned
19:42
that their prisoner's friend may have involvement in the disappearance of Susie Larson.
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Those dummies.
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I do, do people not just, you don't know that those calls are recorded?
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I feel like in the movies, when they pick up the phone, it even says, as it's dialing,
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this call is being recorded.
20:03
Is that not a thing?
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I have no idea.
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I need to get your dad on the call.
20:08
I have a lot of questions.
20:10
Yeah, he might know.
20:12
You would probably know.
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Billy's landlord consented to a search following law enforcement's dedicated efforts keep close
20:21
observation of the two as they built their case.
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Oddly, Billy had moved out of his apartment shortly after Susi's disappearance.
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I mean, I don't think it's that weird.
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People like to move.
20:35
Yeah.
20:37
But maybe he had already made those plans.
20:41
He seems like a discerning dude.
20:44
Keep in mind, there are some limitations when it comes to forensic evidence and testing
20:48
at this point.
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They found blood on the carpet in the apartment that was a match to Susie's blood type.
20:57
Blood type is still a pretty broad.
21:00
We're getting there, but not quite.
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Yeah.
21:03
We feel like we're getting on to something.
21:08
They were then also able to get a search warrant for his vehicle where they recovered the
21:13
previously described creepy, presumed on a live in kit.
21:18
Law enforcement continued their surveillance efforts, now seemingly singularly focused
21:25
on Billy, seeing as they already had Wilford in custody.
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And then they already cleared those meddling kids.
21:34
Right.
21:35
The hooligans.
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Yeah, the hooligans and their shenanigans.
21:39
It's unclear to me when the following details were uncovered in the investigation efforts,
21:46
but local law enforcement learned some disturbing details about some of the time that Billy spent
21:53
abroad.
21:54
A Broadway.
21:55
He had served in the military overseas in Japan.
22:01
During his time in the service, he'd been arrested and convicted for assault, as well as
22:07
attempted murder following a vicious attack on a fellow service member.
22:12
Well, okay.
22:13
Yeah.
22:14
Little aggressive, even for the military.
22:17
Not a great sign.
22:22
He had slit the man's throat.
22:24
Whoa, okay.
22:25
So like actual attempted murder.
22:28
Oh, yeah.
22:29
Not like I beat you up a little too bad.
22:32
Yeah, no, this isn't con air.
22:34
Yeah, yeah.
22:35
That's the one where he beats the guy up too badly and goes to prison because he's a deadly
22:40
weapon, right?
22:41
Oh God, that does sound like a Nicholas Cage movie.
22:45
It is a Nicholas Cage movie.
22:47
Well, no, I know that, but like just the premise, like my hands are registered weapons.
22:53
They're not registered, but you can actually be, I looked into this recently and I can't
22:58
say why, but I did look into this recently.
23:02
You can be charged even if you don't have like a physical traditionally speaking weapon.
23:10
Your hands can be considered weapons, but registering them is not a thing.
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So for all of you weirdos on that corner of the internet saying how you registered.
23:22
Those words, I might have to do that.
23:25
Again, I say weirdos.
23:29
Oh, thanks.
23:33
Oh gosh.
23:36
Based on the charges levied against Billy, it's safe to say that his victim in that case
23:41
survived, but it's hard to imagine something more horrific and traumatic.
23:47
Billy was sentenced to 22 years, but only served 13, which what is going on?
23:55
Like we've got one service member attacking another.
23:59
He's sentenced to the better part of 25 years and he serves like a little over half of it.
24:08
Like if the military is kind of taking that, that sort of a stance or really like let them
24:14
off easy.
24:15
What?
24:16
What?
24:17
No, maybe they didn't like the other guy.
24:20
Kind of a dick.
24:22
They're like still like we kind of get it.
24:25
Yeah, yikes.
24:27
I mean, maybe following his release, he moved to Portland because that's where that's
24:36
where you should go.
24:38
He'd only been released and in turn living in the local area for just a few short months
24:44
at the time of Susi's disappearance.
24:48
Back to the search for Susi.
24:52
13 days after her disappearance, Susi was found.
24:57
She was discovered at Champoeg Park with telltale signs of a truly horrendous attack.
25:06
Her body was found bound and gagged.
25:10
She'd been suffocated after having endured a vicious sexual assault and torture with
25:18
a stun gun.
25:20
Well, that is not great.
25:24
It's not great, but you know what is great is that they already know where that stun gun
25:31
is.
25:32
Okay, well, that is great.
25:34
Yeah.
25:37
Her family naturally was absolutely devastated to learn of her murder and the details of
25:44
her death.
25:46
I mean, to lose a loved one that way, for them to be murdered, but for it to be such a
25:56
horrific murder, pretty awful.
26:04
They held her funeral and buried her on what would have been her wedding day that September.
26:13
Why that day?
26:15
I mean, typically when someone passes away, you have a relatively finite window.
26:26
In this case, I would presume they did not do something like open casket, which really
26:33
gets the clock moving.
26:38
But yeah, I mean, that it's really important for a lot of people to be able to start to have
26:47
a sense of closure and to begin to heal.
26:52
In the short span of just a couple of weeks, they had endured the depredation and complete
26:58
obliteration of every hope or dream for Susie's future.
27:06
And I know that everybody that is taken in this manner, the same can be said for their
27:14
families, but it just seems so sad because it's like, you know, she was just at this next
27:22
big point in her life.
27:25
Right.
27:26
And it happened right before that.
27:28
I mean, yeah, the timing is not good.
27:35
No, it's awful.
27:36
I'm not sure there's any good timing to be murdered in that way, but yeah, that's unfortunate.
27:45
It just feels particularly sad because of that.
27:50
Her mother Shannon said she could do nothing when told of her daughter's death except scream.
27:58
The days, weeks and months following her death have been endless, emotional thoughts of
28:04
her, suffering, and then taken away completely.
28:10
It just gives me the heaps and the jeeps.
28:25
It's the date that Billy's lawyer told him to come forward and share the facts of the
28:30
case as he knew them to law enforcement.
28:34
By this time, he and his girlfriend had hired the private attorney who it should be noted
28:41
did not have a background or experience in practicing criminal law.
28:47
What did he have a background in?
28:49
I'm not really sure.
28:50
I think they probably just found someone that they could afford.
28:54
They probably just felt like it was important to have representation.
28:58
Okay.
29:00
I don't think the girlfriend had to worry that long about having representation.
29:05
I think pretty quickly she was like, okay, so I'm going to go now.
29:12
Bye.
29:13
Probably a good idea.
29:14
Yeah.
29:15
A wise choice.
29:16
He said he'd initially stayed quiet because he didn't have a solid alibi.
29:22
It was afraid that he would be implicated in the murder based on the circumstances.
29:28
You know, like it happened in his apartment.
29:31
Can't have that.
29:33
No.
29:34
Although I will say granted, it's all probably people that are intoxicated to some degree.
29:41
But like, how is being at a bar in a very public place for, you know, a set period of time,
29:49
not a good alibi?
29:51
You would think.
29:52
You would think.
29:54
Please ask for permission to play part of his recorded statement to Wilford and Billy
30:00
agreed.
30:02
A lot dumb things happening here.
30:06
When he learned that Billy had turned on him, Wilford was angry and finally decided to
30:12
provide new information to the police.
30:17
He'd been staying with Billy in the days leading up to Susi's disappearance and murder.
30:23
After hearing the recording of Billy's conversation with the authorities, he recalled the events
30:29
sharing a markedly different story from that of Billy.
30:33
No way.
30:34
I know what?
30:37
He's like, no, I definitely didn't do that.
30:43
Wilford said that on the very night of her disappearance, Billy had told Wilford that
30:49
he had been on a date with Susie when he brought her back to his place.
30:56
Okay.
30:58
Survey says that's a lie.
31:02
Wilford recalled hearing a stun gun from the other room, which is probably not a sound
31:11
most of us are likely to hear every day.
31:14
I don't know that if that noise came from another room and out of context that I would be able
31:20
to readily identify it.
31:24
But I would have questions.
31:25
I would have follow up questions and I would go to seek that information and probably immediately
31:31
be stun gunned.
31:33
So that's...
31:34
I would be shocked if I heard that.
31:39
You did not.
31:42
You know how we like that.
31:46
You know how we feel about dad jokes.
31:49
In any case, it got his attention.
31:52
He came into the room to find Billy on top of Susi on the living room floor with the stun
31:58
gun to her neck.
32:00
Okay.
32:01
Just casual.
32:02
That's...
32:05
We do that like every other Tuesday.
32:07
Yeah.
32:08
Up to this point, Wilford is only guilty of whatever past crimes he had committed.
32:21
And maybe also of having a slightly creepy friend, which if I were the leader of this country,
32:30
I would make it a crime.
32:33
Being creepy is a crime.
32:35
No, we can't say that.
32:37
We don't like creepy people.
32:38
Yeah.
32:39
No, but I mean like creepy in a bad way.
32:41
You can be creepy like in a good way.
32:43
Like creepy cute.
32:44
Creepy spooky.
32:45
Creepy.
32:46
Just don't be a creep.
32:48
Don't yeah, don't be a creep.
32:50
Don't be like an in-sau creep.
32:54
Don't be a...
32:56
There's...
32:57
The list goes on and on.
32:59
All of the other adjectives that I'm going to slide next to creep are very heteronormative
33:07
for the males in the audience and...
33:11
Oh, oh, okay.
33:13
And they're all gone.
33:17
Poof.
33:18
I know.
33:19
All three of them.
33:24
Like that one time, we got a response to a tweet that we put out from a male listener.
33:31
And he was like, "Hey, there's five of us."
33:35
Yeah, that's funny.
33:38
Instead of intervening for Susi's safety or simply removing himself from the situation
33:44
to get help, Wilford helped Billy tie Susie up.
33:50
As one does.
33:51
I like how your face said one thing and then your mouth's another one.
33:56
And somewhere in the middle, you were just like, "I'm so uncomfortable."
34:00
Very much, yeah.
34:03
Billy then proceeded to cut off her clothing and sexually assault her, which is just...
34:13
Trying to stick to the basics and the facts of the case on this and not be too terribly
34:19
graphic, but even knowing some of the details of the attack before hearing Wilford's
34:27
recounting of events, it's truly shocking.
34:30
Which, I mean, just a series of events and the fact that like, "Okay, maybe you didn't
34:38
know this guy was going to do something like that."
34:41
But then you're presented with this situation and...
34:44
Little to me, girl.
34:46
Yeah.
34:47
Well, bet.
34:48
I mean, it seems like you're into it.
34:53
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
34:54
You're part of this.
34:56
Yeah, I mean, I don't want to go around throwing out the word accomplice, you know, all Willie
35:03
Nilly, but allegedly.
35:06
Allegedly.
35:08
Or allegendly.
35:09
No, okay.
35:10
I like that.
35:11
We made that word up recently, so.
35:15
Oh, okay.
35:16
Yeah, that was Cassie's brainchild.
35:18
You guys make up a lot of words.
35:19
We do.
35:20
It's hard to keep up.
35:21
I know.
35:22
I know.
35:23
When the ideas are this good, you just got to roll with it.
35:28
Gotta let them out.
35:29
Gotta let the people know.
35:30
You gotta let the people know.
35:33
You guys, we have something really exciting to share with you.
35:37
Let's hear a few words from our new pod besties.
35:41
A little bit de todo, though, is a podcast about a little bit of everything, for curious minds
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of all ages.
35:45
I'm Christina, and you can tune in every weekday to learn about things like Cinco de Mayo,
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Chihuahua's, and volcanoes in Latin America.
35:51
Those are bite-sized, 10 minutes long or less, and always Latin American-related.
35:56
Subscribe and follow a little bit de todo podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.
36:00
Check them out, creepy people.
36:02
You can find their info in our show notes.
36:07
Maybe because there's a little part of me that even knowing how the story ends, had
36:13
hope that rather than going along with his friend, that Wilford would help her.
36:20
There were so many opportunities for this person to, I mean, even the point of after this has
36:31
all been horrifically perpetrated on her.
36:35
There are so many opportunities for this man to go, "Fuck, this is awful, and I'm probably
36:41
going to spend the rest of my life in prison because I did, in fact, by my own confession.
36:51
I've admitted to this that I played a very significant role in this crime."
37:00
He could have done that, and that would have even been slightly redeemable.
37:08
Really slight.
37:09
Very slight slinest.
37:12
Yeah.
37:13
But there's so many opportunities for this to have not gone this far.
37:20
For this person to have tried to have done the right thing somewhere along the line.
37:27
Quite to the contrary, he assisted very directly in her heartbreaking fate.
37:35
During the attack, the men forced Susi to provide her ATM card and pin.
37:42
Wilford went to an ATM to withdraw cash and returned to find Billy attempting to kill
37:48
her.
37:50
He returned to find that the victim had blood on her face and was not moving.
38:00
This next portion is from Court testimony, and I will say that it is rough.
38:09
Have we not got to the rough part stuff?
38:12
Yeah.
38:13
I know.
38:14
Really?
38:15
That's pretty much what Cassie says like every week.
38:18
Yeah.
38:19
No, it's pretty rough.
38:21
This really just has more to do with the difficulty of hearing the testimony of multiple
38:28
parties involved.
38:31
Yeah.
38:32
Okay.
38:33
Let's get into it.
38:39
Wilford testified that Billy told him upon his return that he had hit and choked the
38:45
victim because she quote, "Just wouldn't have sex with me."
38:51
Well, that is a reason.
38:54
Yeah.
38:55
Not a good one.
38:57
Yeah.
38:58
He further stated that he had tried to kill her, but that she just wouldn't die.
39:11
Wilford stated that he then helped Billy as he held a plastic bag over Susi's head until
39:19
she stopped breathing.
39:23
The following day, Billy Oatney Jr. was officially placed under arrest.
39:30
Meanwhile, Wilford negotiated a plea deal.
39:35
In 1998, Billy was found guilty and sentenced to death.
39:42
The end.
39:43
Just kidding.
39:44
Yeah.
39:45
No.
39:46
I was like, that's an abrupt ending.
39:48
Yeah, you're like, that's so weird.
39:51
You didn't talk about the trial or that's like very little testimony.
39:56
It's very little that you've said about the whole case.
40:00
Susi's sister Mindy told Oatney at his sentencing, "I hate you for what you did to my sister and
40:09
I hate you for what you did to my family.
40:12
My hope is that you will feel one ounce of the pain and fear that Susi felt.
40:19
And every day to the day of your execution, your life is a living hell."
40:24
"Here's to hope."
40:27
Yeah.
40:28
Susi's father, Ted, also spoke at the sentencing stating, "She trusted and she saw the good
40:38
in everyone.
40:41
That innocent trust ultimately led to her death."
40:46
How dare you?
40:48
Your legacy will be one of murder, one of rape, one of satamy, one of pain.
40:56
You have nothing worthwhile to contribute to this life and never have.
41:01
I hope you rotten hell.
41:03
That was a good speech.
41:06
I think so too.
41:08
I think a lot of times the statements that we hear from families tend to send her more
41:18
on forgiveness in one respect or another.
41:26
And I think part of the reason why we do is that it's really difficult to think about
41:33
being able to forgive someone that did this to a person that you love.
41:39
Right.
41:40
And I think, and you know, if that's what they've done, how they feel, that's great and
41:47
all, because forgiveness is often to help themselves, which is what they need.
41:56
But no, I prefer hate.
41:58
Yeah.
41:59
I hate that guy.
42:00
Yeah.
42:01
I know.
42:02
Don't know him.
42:03
Never met him.
42:04
Hope to never.
42:05
Still hate him.
42:06
Still hate him.
42:07
Yeah.
42:08
That's the party line in this house.
42:11
And the dad's right.
42:12
That's his legacy.
42:13
That's all I know about this guy.
42:15
Literally the only thing, you know, he is a piece of shit, yeah, every which way, every
42:20
which way from here to Japan.
42:25
On his way back to his seat, Larsen whispered, a clearly heard obscenity to Oatney, who replied,
42:34
pardon?
42:35
Pretty ballsy for a man who can now only be kept safe by the state.
42:45
And there would not be a place you could run to that you would be safe for me if you did
42:52
this to one of my family members.
42:55
Yeah.
42:56
Not that we're advocating for vigilante justice or violence to be clear.
43:02
When Oatney addressed the court, because of course he's gonna, he again took the opportunity
43:11
to blame the crime on his buddy Wilford because of course.
43:18
He said of Susie that she was quote, "A beautiful person inside and out.
43:26
I am happy to have known her.
43:30
The absolute audacity of this man."
43:35
But he goes on to say that the hatred and contempt of Susi's family toward him quote, "discraces
43:45
Susi Larsen's name.
43:47
If that makes them feel better about themselves, well, I hope that eases their pain.
43:54
These people are praying to God that I be hurt and degraded.
43:58
You people are not godly."
44:02
No one's buying your shit.
44:03
Yeah, I mean, if that isn't the pot calling the kettle, that really got me hot when I
44:10
read that I was just like, you're saving any kind of face here.
44:16
No, no.
44:18
Even if that was a thousand percent, if you were innocent and that was a thousand percent
44:22
the truth, you still look like the asshole.
44:30
Another first of all, how fucking dare you?
44:34
And second of all, none of what they've said to you publicly is even a fraction of what
44:40
I'm sure they feel.
44:41
Well, just be honest, they're certainly not alone in that.
44:46
We're on board.
44:47
The details of Susi's murder left many horrified and disgusted.
44:54
Susi's fiance Keith spoke as well, stating she had been the love of his life.
45:00
"That life was snuffed out by that man sitting there," he said, refusing to acknowledge her
45:07
killer by name.
45:10
It seems like only a few months ago that I stood along a rushing river and gave Susie a ring.
45:16
I'll cherish that moment as the happiest moment in my life.
45:22
Billy filed multiple appeals following his conviction and sentencing, which of course
45:28
is not in common, but really fucking annoying.
45:33
But in 2015, he was actually successful.
45:37
The Oregon Court of Appeals agreed that he should be granted a new trial based on inadequate
45:43
assistance of counsel.
45:45
Here we go, Dan.
45:47
Yeah.
45:48
And honestly, I hate it, but they're not wrong.
45:53
By the time his trial had gotten underway, Billy had a different attorney representing him,
45:59
then the one representing him on the day he provided the damning recorded statement to
46:05
authorities.
46:06
That was October 23rd, and it is single-handedly what turned Wilford against him.
46:15
He was aware that he had been promised immunity by the DA.
46:20
When he said in the statements provided that date should have been used against him in
46:26
prosecution, the statement Wilford made in the case that incriminated Billy was only provided
46:33
once he'd heard the recording of Billy's own statement.
46:39
The former then led to Billy's arrest.
46:43
It's fruit from a poison tree.
46:46
Yeah, I was just going to say, "Further the poison is true."
46:50
That's why you have to be so meticulous and careful about your evidence gathering and
46:56
interviews and all of it.
46:59
Yeah.
47:00
One mistake, one misstep, it can take everything down.
47:06
Yeah.
47:08
His attorney had the opportunity to read through the immunity agreement as well as his transcribed
47:14
official statement.
47:17
He argued in court that not only should Wilford statements not be used in court, but neither
47:23
should any of the derivative evidence that came from them.
47:28
The judge granted this motion, but Billy's attorney never raised the issue with Wilford
47:34
statements at trial.
47:36
So he brought it up, but then it was like he just forgot.
47:40
Whoops.
47:41
Yep.
47:43
He would later state that he thought the statements made by Wilford were not covered
47:49
by the immunity agreement, which kind of makes sense because whatever Wilford says is
47:57
separate from whatever your claim is saying.
47:59
Like in that respect, maybe I could see it, but sir, sir, you are a lawyer.
48:09
It was weird, since he filed a motion to suppress them, and that was actually granted, but you
48:15
know, makes it seem like his legal representation was possibly either day drinking through the
48:23
trial or just extremely ineffectual, either way, not exactly ideal.
48:28
Could be both.
48:29
Two things can be true.
48:30
I'm not proud about it.
48:32
Yeah.
48:33
Well, there were some people that were mad about it.
48:37
Wilford's court of appeals pointed out that at the pre-trial hearing his attorney did raise
48:43
the issue, but they could not understand why he didn't continue doing so at trial, just
48:51
kind of when it counts.
48:53
For a point.
48:54
Yep.
48:55
The prosecution's case dating back to 1996 was based on the statements and really not
49:01
a whole lot else because we also didn't have super advanced forensic DNA testing.
49:10
Not great.
49:11
They had the blood found in his apartment that they linked to Susie, but back then it was
49:16
only a blood type match.
49:17
So not exactly a slam dunk.
49:21
In January of 2023, his second trial got underway.
49:28
According to the new trial, Susi's sister Mindy said, "It just feels wrong.
49:34
You want a fair trial for everybody involved, but a fair trial is having the jury hear all
49:41
the evidence.
49:43
And this time around, it's not the case.
49:47
We know too much, and the frustration is tough."
49:53
She spoke about the difficulty of testifying in her sister's case, again, stating that
49:58
she found it particularly challenging to be able to provide what felt like complete
50:04
answers in some cases due to some of the prior evidence no longer being allowed.
50:11
Yeah.
50:12
That's understandable.
50:13
Really tricky because this is just a person who's, you know, ostensibly a witness, you
50:20
know, they're testifying, but they're not directly involved, obviously, in the crime itself.
50:27
And they're not very well acquainted with legal system.
50:31
That's, it's a lot to ask.
50:36
I just, I can't even fathom the frustration that she must have felt.
50:43
She's been vocal about her sister's case since she was taken from their family nearly
50:48
three decades ago.
50:52
On Tuesday, February 7, 2023, at age 60, Billy Oatney Jr. was convicted of murder in the
51:01
first degree for the 1996 sexual assault and murder of Susi Larsen for the second time.
51:11
The jury was permitted to hear about his previous violent history, including his prior conviction
51:17
for attempted murder.
51:19
That took place in Japan when he was a service member.
51:24
They found that he had not been deterred from violent acts previously, noting the short
51:33
time between his release and Susi's death.
51:38
Additionally, just days after murdering Susi, Billy had been stalking a exotic dancer.
51:47
And told friends he wanted to make her his love slave.
51:53
"Yuck."
51:54
Yeah.
51:56
So clearly he didn't see any need to stop his criminal and violent behavior against women.
52:06
Ultimately, the jury felt there was no possibility of rehabilitation for Billy.
52:11
"I agree."
52:13
Yeah.
52:14
Finally, making the right choice.
52:18
Taking this into account following his second conviction, the judge sentenced him to life
52:23
without the possibility of wrong.
52:28
And all I have to say is, "Syanara Sakha."
52:33
You had me worried with this whole new trial thing.
52:37
I didn't know which way this was going to go.
52:39
It wasn't looking good.
52:41
It's a wild case.
52:43
Anytime that they are granted an appeal at that point and so many years later, like that
52:51
too, it definitely just makes you a little bit nervous.
52:55
But I think that unfortunately, even if they, fortunately or unfortunately, just depending
53:03
on which side you're on, after that much time has passed, a lot of times the technology
53:10
and the different resources that we have available to nail your super creeper-ass, they're that
53:19
much better.
53:20
So it's unfortunate for Billy, I suppose.
53:24
But do you even care about that?
53:26
Yeah, but I mean for the family to have to go through all of that again, regardless
53:34
of the outcome.
53:36
That was those tough.
53:39
Yeah, and seeing the interviews that her sister did with a number of local news channels
53:46
and things, I can really tell the toll that that took on her personally.
53:55
I believe at this point both of their parents have passed.
53:59
So I do think that's another layer of difficulty because that puts a lot of the weight on her
54:06
shoulders to really see this through.
54:13
Another super creepy detail about this case, the apartments where she was killed, they're
54:25
untiegored, have driven by them.
54:31
Probably a ton of times, I know of them.
54:33
As soon as I heard the name of the complex, it's called, I believe, "brighten apartments."
54:42
I was like, "You've got to be kidding me."
54:45
These are, I know, it's just all of these places that, you know, in Champoeg Park, God,
54:54
why you got a ruined old, like, come on.
54:58
You are choosing cases in your neck of the woods.
55:01
I know, I know.
55:03
It's true, it's true.
55:06
It's kind of like, "Oh my gosh, I'm going to drink another glass of wine and then I'm surprised
55:09
that I'm drunk."
55:10
How did this happen?
55:15
Who let this happen?
55:16
Who is in charge here?
55:20
[Cassie in deep voice] I'm Chris the husband.
55:27
Okay.
55:29
So tarot.
55:31
Tarot.
55:32
So I did read this episode.
55:35
You did.
55:36
Yes.
55:37
So I'm excited to see what Chris did with it.
55:41
He was like, "You're so right.
55:44
You did pick my unique nightmare fuel."
55:47
Did he cry?
55:48
You guys didn't cry.
55:49
He didn't cry.
55:50
You can't marry him.
55:53
I know.
55:54
I'm stopping the wedding.
55:55
If someone says, "Who objects?"
55:56
I'm going to be like, "I object."
55:57
I would never.
55:58
No.
55:59
Okay.
56:00
Well, I'm excited to listen, but Chris didn't want to do tarot.
56:08
He was like, "That's too witchy for me."
56:11
Well, honestly, I think he's a little bit freaked out by the readings that he's seen
56:16
me go to like close family members and friends and maybe some of the readings I've given
56:24
to him himself.
56:26
Is she the witchy bitch?
56:27
I'm a witchy bitch.
56:29
It says so on the wine glass.
56:31
Like it's hard to read with like the lights and everything, but I didn't think about that.
56:36
Witchy bitch.
56:37
Witchy bitch.
56:38
I didn't think about that.
56:39
Witchy bitch.
56:40
Witchy bitch.
56:41
I didn't think about that.
56:42
Witchy bitch.
56:43
Witchy bitch.
56:44
I didn't think about that.
56:45
Witchy bitch.
56:46
It's fine.
56:48
Yeah, I think it's important to know that we are very open right now.
56:57
We have waited until we were two glasses of wine in to go ahead and do the tarot.
57:06
So like we're very, we're very open spiritually.
57:12
Spiritual way.
57:13
Okay.
57:14
I feel like I'm like kind of, you probably can't really tell.
57:18
I'm about a thirdish of the way into the deck.
57:22
Does that feel okay?
57:25
Oh, okay.
57:26
Oh, interesting.
57:28
Two of cups.
57:31
The imagery I feel like kind of works in the traditional deck.
57:35
I have something to say.
57:38
What?
57:39
This is basically like the lover's card number two.
57:41
Kind of.
57:42
On this card, when we were doing, like we were about to do your proposal thing for your
57:49
wedding, we pulled the two cups and I was like, shit, don't give her any idea.
57:54
Oh my gosh.
57:55
And you thought I was going to pick up on something and I was like, boom, boom, boom,
57:58
boom.
57:59
I was like, oh my, you'll get better.
58:01
You're in here.
58:02
You're in here.
58:03
And you want to hear that.
58:04
Go back a year or two.
58:06
A yearish?
58:07
You're not.
58:08
When did you happen?
58:10
Okay, well, this is kind of freaky because it made sense then.
58:16
It makes sense now.
58:19
Two of cups are keywords are partnership, harmony, creative exchange and cooperation.
58:29
In many decks, the two of cups shows a man and woman holding chalices as if toasting
58:35
each other or like literally standing in front of an altar.
58:39
Yeah.
58:41
The card represents joining forces with someone either romantically or in a creative spiritual
58:48
endeavor.
58:49
Now this works twofold, I think, when it comes to this case.
58:55
Okay.
58:56
So I think this applies to romantic partners in this case and I think it also works in
59:02
like a, you know, criminal partnership in this case.
59:05
Yeah.
59:07
You share a common dream, interest or passion and can work together to bring it into being
59:13
or maybe you literally already work together at Mattel.
59:18
Yeah.
59:19
Oh.
59:20
I know.
59:21
I know.
59:22
I know.
59:23
It's kind of heartbreaking.
59:26
It really is.
59:30
Mutual respect and equality exist between you.
59:35
The upright two indicates a period of harmony when things go smoothly between you and another
59:42
person.
59:43
Did I, because like I've read this a while ago, did they have this at first?
59:49
Like, did they have this like harmony?
59:51
Well, okay.
59:52
So the thing that's important to remember about this case is that Sissy was not murdered
59:58
by her partner.
1:00:00
This is an outside, it's a third party.
1:00:04
So her relationship, I mean, it couldn't have been happier in terms of her romantic partnership.
1:00:10
She was supposed to get married like two weeks after her disappearance.
1:00:18
And you may recall that she was actually laid to rest on what would have been her wedding
1:00:24
day.
1:00:25
Yeah.
1:00:26
I remember that part.
1:00:27
Yeah.
1:00:28
I think of this as the honeymoon car.
1:00:35
Oh my god.
1:00:39
Stop.
1:00:40
I know.
1:00:41
I know.
1:00:42
Oh god.
1:00:43
It makes sense.
1:00:44
But it's, yeah.
1:00:45
Oh, she's getting more.
1:00:46
No, we're fine.
1:00:47
No, we're fine.
1:00:48
When you have high hopes and experience a time of accord optimism, inspiration and good
1:00:55
wealth in a reading about money, the upright to suggest a financial partnership or merging
1:01:03
your resources with someone else's for a mutual gain.
1:01:12
It can also mean financial support comes from a partner or a backer.
1:01:18
If the reading is about your job, this car describes a partnership that benefits both
1:01:23
people.
1:01:25
You inspire one another and enjoy working together, literally working together.
1:01:32
Yeah.
1:01:33
It can also represent cooperation and creative collaboration in your workplace.
1:01:39
Wow.
1:01:40
I mean, that's crazy.
1:01:42
I mean, the fact that that is so spot on is just, yeah, if in a reading about love, the
1:01:52
two upright symbolizes a happy relationship that's developing smoothly.
1:01:58
You understand each other's needs and bring out the best in one another.
1:02:04
This card shows harmony, balance, and mutual respect between two parties.
1:02:09
Wow.
1:02:10
Well, that just makes me sad because like this is all of the things like it was going to
1:02:15
be a shut of then and yeah.
1:02:17
And then it didn't be his.
1:02:19
And then it was a stupid shit.
1:02:21
Interesting.
1:02:22
Okay.
1:02:23
I just, I had to see.
1:02:27
I just, I just needed to know it's the Queen of Swords and Reverse.
1:02:32
Oh.
1:02:33
Okay.
1:02:34
Queen of Swords.
1:02:36
Keywords are intelligence, independence, authority, objectivity, and communication.
1:02:46
The Queen of Swords is the female counterpart of the king, except she represents the
1:02:51
creative side of the mental process, the novelist rather than the accountant.
1:03:00
It seems she was a graphic designer, so that feels, yeah.
1:03:07
In some decks, she sits on the throne, wearing a crown and a luxurious, wearing a crown and
1:03:15
a luxurious robe holding a sword.
1:03:20
The Aquarian Tarot pictures her crown, but sands throne, wielding her sword as a woman
1:03:26
warrior, sort of a Joan of Arc or a theme of figure.
1:03:32
Oh.
1:03:33
In a reading, she may represent an actual person, in which case, she's usually a mature woman
1:03:39
known for her intelligence, independence, and inner strength.
1:03:44
When the Queen appears reversed, you may feel trapped, limited, unable to speak your own
1:03:52
truth.
1:03:53
She could indicate disappointments at work or home, broken promises, hopes that didn't
1:04:01
manifest.
1:04:03
Didn't the other one say like it was all about like the hope or something?
1:04:10
You may feel you haven't been given a chance to show yourself or you've been handed a puny
1:04:15
piece of the pie.
1:04:18
Perhaps you can't move beyond a loss or your emotions are interfering with your judgment.
1:04:28
In a reading about money, this card can mean you let your emotions rather than your intellect
1:04:34
guide a financial matter.
1:04:37
It may also suggest you've gotten bad advice or not investigated a situation adequately
1:04:43
and consequently incurred losses.
1:04:46
Oh, holy shit.
1:04:49
This Queen warns, read the fine print.
1:04:54
The reversed Queen may represent the glass ceiling women still face.
1:05:01
In a reading about love, this card suggests bitterness caused by disappointments or losses.
1:05:11
As a result, you may swear off relationships and isolate yourself.
1:05:19
Sometimes the Queen reversed shows an overly critical nature, inflexibility, or coolness
1:05:25
toward a partner.
1:05:27
I mean, it's that first one.
1:05:30
I was like by no fault of either of their own.
1:05:37
Did he ever like read Mary after?
1:05:45
I'm trying to remember from the source material because I think outside of speaking at the original
1:05:51
sentencing, I don't think that there have been any particular updates that I have seen
1:05:58
about her fiancee.
1:06:02
I think probably a lot of that has to do with the only way to move on in that situation
1:06:11
for him might have been that after he's sentenced and he's sent to prison, I have to separate
1:06:20
myself from this.
1:06:23
For sure, because I feel like there would be something about this is someone that you thought
1:06:33
you were going to spend the rest of your life with.
1:06:37
They were so young.
1:06:44
He still had so much life ahead of him and he really did have to...
1:06:51
He would have to try in some respect to compartmentalize this in order to be able to go on to have a
1:07:00
life, whereas someone in her family who has their partner and they have the support of
1:07:09
their family long term, I think you're just approaching those things so differently.
1:07:20
You have to grieve that in a different way and let go of that person in a different way.
1:07:31
It's so hard.
1:07:35
I can't imagine.
1:07:39
I've had so many horrific flashes of just intrusive thoughts or horrific daydreams about
1:07:47
something happening.
1:07:54
I don't know how anyone moves on, but for this particular situation, the fact that you
1:08:05
are just weeks away from your wedding, I couldn't wrap my head around it.
1:08:13
I really didn't want to throw up.
1:08:15
Yeah.
1:08:16
My mouth is good and watery.
1:08:18
Yeah.
1:08:19
Well, those cards worked.
1:08:21
I mean, wow.
1:08:23
I don't know that I've had a reading that has felt so like that just resonated in a way that
1:08:33
I'm really glad I pulled that second one.
1:08:35
Yeah.
1:08:36
I knew you were going to, was that weird?
1:08:38
Kind of, because I didn't know until I did it.
1:08:40
I knew as soon as you pulled.
1:08:41
I knew as soon as you pulled this other one, like I knew it would work, but like I knew
1:08:45
that you were going to have to pull a different one.
1:08:47
Yeah.
1:08:48
Just based off of what it was, I was like, this is too like feel good.
1:08:52
I know this is like what, obviously I'm altered.
1:08:56
This is like the vibe we were going for, like the couples and the, yeah.
1:09:00
All the things that should have been, but you know what's weird about this is I just realized
1:09:05
that pulling a second card in this moment, like I wouldn't have, I never planned to
1:09:12
pull another card.
1:09:13
I always plan on it being one card and I'm, if anything, I'm resistant to pulling additional
1:09:19
cards, but it makes sense because I mean, this is a situation where he had two trials.
1:09:27
Right.
1:09:28
Two of cops, two trials and two cards.
1:09:33
Two people on the altar.
1:09:34
We have the 11, 11.
1:09:36
Yeah.
1:09:37
Oh, God.
1:09:38
Should we just like talk about this beautiful candle or a book?
1:09:45
Yeah, Chris and I talked about it a little bit.
1:09:47
Yeah.
1:09:48
Well, we can talk about it.
1:09:49
Oh, I was like, did you just like show the butts or what we didn't know show the butt.
1:09:52
Should we show the butts?
1:09:53
Show the butts.
1:09:54
We need a little pick me up, I think after this.
1:09:57
God, fuck me up.
1:09:59
That was, um, I guess the joke saw me because I was like, oh my gosh, I figured out, I figured
1:10:07
out what's going to really like set everybody off right before the wedding.
1:10:12
And I was like, I guess I forgot, I'm everybody.
1:10:15
Let me just fuck myself off of my way.
1:10:17
Yeah.
1:10:18
Well, yeah, naturally because I'm like obviously deeply sticking the head and a little bit
1:10:24
of a massacres, but what are you going to do?
1:10:27
You know?
1:10:28
Cry on camera.
1:10:29
No, you've got it.
1:10:30
It's great for your makeup and I'm not at all sniffly.
1:10:35
You don't sound at all measly.
1:10:38
It's fun.
1:10:39
Well, I'm glad I don't have to sit here for this whole episode and I just got to read it
1:10:44
and skimp as need be.
1:10:50
And then you got like the fun part, the tarot.
1:10:52
Yeah, I got the fun part.
1:10:57
I mean, sometimes you just need a good cry.
1:11:00
Well, I'm going to go cry off camera.
1:11:05
She's not.
1:11:06
We might go get a snack though.
1:11:07
I'm okay with that.
1:11:08
That would probably rejuvenate us.
1:11:10
I might cry eating snacks because they'd be so good.
1:11:13
They're so good.
1:11:15
They're so good.
1:11:17
All right.
1:11:18
Have a great day.
1:11:19
Have a great day.
1:11:20
Have a great day.
1:11:21
Have a great day.
1:11:22
We'll see you next Wednesday or whenever.
1:11:26
Oh, I didn't know that you guys are still saying that.
1:11:30
Whoops.
1:11:31
I said, waiting.
1:11:32
You said, waiting, that you said Monday.
1:11:37
I didn't know it was like you next Wednesday.
1:11:41
Just thought Joe Connuss, because none of us are getting married ever again.
1:11:45
No, no, no.
1:11:47
I will never do this again.
1:11:50
I'm surprised my hair is not fully now.
1:11:52
I'm glad that it's not.
1:11:54
Yeah.
1:11:55
She's not gone.
1:11:56
What?
1:11:57
What's to do this?
1:12:04
All right.
1:12:05
I'm like, who should start?
1:12:08
Because when I say hi, I'm going to be saying hi, Chris.
1:12:11
And when you say hi, it'll be obvious that you're not Cassie.
1:12:15
I will do my best to sound like her.
1:12:18
Hello.
1:12:19
Hello.
1:12:20
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