Latest / Why I Knit / The Joy of Making with Meghan Fernandes and Lydia Gluck

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The Joy of Making with Meghan Fernandes and Lydia Gluck · Why I Knit

0:03
Mia Hobbs: Hello, and welcome back to series two of the Why I
0:06
Knit podcast. My name is Dr Mia Hobbs and I'm a clinical
0:10
psychologist who's passionate about knitting and its benefits
0:13
for our mental wellbeing. Each episode I interview a different
0:16
knitter about why they knit and how it benefits their mental
0:20
health. For the first episode of series two, I'm delighted to be
0:23
joined by Meghan Fernandes and Lydia Gluck, the founders and
0:26
creative directors of Pom Pom magazine. As you'll probably be
0:30
able to tell, I'm a big fan of Pom Pom. You can find links to
0:34
all of the yarns and the patterns we discuss, and to Pom
0:37
Pom magazine, in the show notes.
0:45
Hi, Meghan and Lydia, welcome to the podcast.
0:48
Meghan Fernandes: Hello, thank you for having us.
0:50
Lydia Gluck: Hi!
0:51
Mia Hobbs: Hi, you're welcome. I wonder if it's helpful just for
0:54
audio purposes for you each to just introduce yourself so
0:57
people know from your accents!
1:00
Lydia Gluck: Hi, yes, my name is Lydia, and you can tell that I
1:03
am British. And that's probably the main way that you're going
1:05
to be able to tell the difference between Meghan and I!
1:10
Meghan Fernandes: Yep. And I'm Meghan, and I'm here in Austin,
1:13
Texas, with my American accent.
1:16
Mia Hobbs: So it's early in the morning for you, Meghan.
1:19
Meghan Fernandes: Yeah, it's eight o'clock in the morning.
1:20
But I have already had plenty to do today. So I'm happy to to be
1:26
here at eight o'clock in the morning.
1:28
Mia Hobbs: Super. Well, thank you so much for joining me on
1:31
the podcast. I always start with asking where your story with
1:35
knitting began personally. Meghan, do you want to start?
1:40
Meghan Fernandes: Sure. I learned to knit from my
1:43
boyfriend's mother when I was in high school, so when I was 16.
1:49
And I wanted to learn and she was eager to teach me and I just
1:55
spent a couple of days on her sofa with her helping me when I
2:01
needed it. And yeah, she made me knit a whole sweater as my first
2:07
project! So it was a good introduction.
2:11
Mia Hobbs: Wow! Do you still have it?
2:13
Meghan Fernandes: I have parts of it. As you can imagine, as
2:17
the first project, it did not turn out wonderfully, so I have
2:21
parts of it repurposed into different things. So I still
2:25
have the yarn.
2:28
Mia Hobbs: It's found a new life elsewhere.
2:29
Meghan Fernandes: Yes. [Laughs]
2:32
Mia Hobbs: Did you carry on knitting straight away?
2:34
Meghan Fernandes: Yeah I did, I think! Well, I was 16 then. And
2:39
then a couple years later, I went to university and I
2:45
definitely was knitting there. So yeah, I've never really
2:48
stopped since then.
2:51
Mia Hobbs: Great. And how about you, Lydia?
2:53
Lydia Gluck: Well, I'm pretty sure that my mum did teach me to
2:56
knit when I was little, maybe like seven or eight, something
3:00
like that. But it didn't really stick then. So I properly
3:05
started knitting when I was at university. So I was like, I
3:08
think, 19 or 20. And it happened because one of my housemates at
3:13
the time had taken up knitting and she was making a garter
3:16
stitch scarf, as people do often when they start... not Meghan of
3:19
course, Meghan made a jumper! [Laughs]
3:20
Mia Hobbs: A high achiever! [Laughs]
3:24
Lydia Gluck: But yeah, so this friend of mine, Jess, was
3:27
knitting. And I was like, "Oh, you know, I'll have a go on
3:30
that!". And not long after then I went home for, I think, maybe
3:34
an Easter or summer holiday back to Wales, where I grew up. And
3:38
it was raining, as it often does in Wales, and so I spent quite a
3:41
lot of time inside teaching myself to knit. And in
3:44
retrospect, it's really weird that I didn't ask my mum or my
3:47
granny to just show me how but it didn't really occur to me. So
3:50
I just taught myself from a book, and I think haven't really
3:56
stopped for very long since then. I was pretty into it
4:01
straightaway.
4:03
Mia Hobbs: And I know Lydia, from listening to the Pomcast,
4:07
that you're generally a creative person, so I'm assuming you've
4:09
tried lots of different creative hobbies. What do you think made
4:14
knitting stick? I don't know if it is the main one for you...?
4:18
Lydia Gluck: I mean, actually, I learned to crochet. So when I
4:20
was teaching myself to knit, the book that I bought myself had
4:24
both crochet and knitting. And crochet I found a lot easier to
4:28
start with. So I started off with crochet but learned to knit
4:32
not long afterwards. Yeah, especially when I was at
4:38
university, and maybe didn't have loads of space and loads of
4:41
access to... you know, because I wasn't at art school, I didn't
4:43
have access to facilities there. Knitting is small, it's
4:49
portable, it's something that you can pick up and put down
4:54
quite easily without having to make a lot of space for it. And
4:56
I think especially when I was living in shared houses, perhaps
4:59
that's why it stuck. But also I just think I found it really
5:03
addictive. And it's kind of hard to say why, isn't it? Why some
5:06
things just kind of click, but I think there was just something
5:09
about it. I've always loved clothes and had a lot of fun
5:13
with colours and clothes. So I think the fact that I was able
5:16
to make myself little things to wear or things for my friends
5:21
was a lot of fun. And I think there's just something about the
5:24
repetitive nature of it that obviously I found quite
5:28
appealing.
5:29
Mia Hobbs: How about you, Meghan? Why do you think it
5:31
stuck?
5:34
Meghan Fernandes: Well, I agree, you know, there's something
5:36
about knitting and crochet. The portability of it, and being
5:42
able to multitask, I think is really appealing. I think,
5:49
because I knit so much and it was so addictive early on, that
5:53
I quickly learned how to read and knit at the same time, or
5:58
watch TV or listen to a podcast or sit on the bus. You can
6:02
always do something else while you're doing it, and I think
6:07
that's really appealing. And it makes you feel productive and
6:12
like you've accomplished something, even when you're
6:17
standing in line at the post office or something like that.
6:20
Mia Hobbs: Do you think you're a natural multitasker?
6:22
Meghan Fernandes: I must be! [Laughs]
6:25
Mia Hobbs: For myself, I think my brain likes to kind of go
6:28
freelancing if I'm just sitting watching a zoom training or
6:32
something. I feel like it really helps me, to be able to knit
6:35
then.
6:36
Meghan Fernandes: Yeah, yesterday at Pom Pom our team
6:40
had a big meeting that could have been quite boring [laughs].
6:43
It was sort of about statistics from all of our different areas
6:49
of expertise, from sales to social media, you know, all the
6:53
different things, and I think Lydia was darning, I was
6:58
crocheting, during that meeting. And yeah, I think it's really
7:03
useful to allow your brain to kind of relax and let the
7:07
Mia Hobbs: It must be so nice to be not the only person doing it!
7:07
information...
7:10
I've never experienced being on a training when I wasn't the
7:15
only person knitting. And I guess the other thing is there
7:19
to be a basic assumption that you can still be paying
7:23
attention when you're doing that.
7:24
Meghan Fernandes: Yes. It's nice, because I feel like I did
7:28
do knitting in university, during lectures or whatever, and
7:33
be the only one. People who don't understand are like, "Are
7:38
they really paying attention?", you know? But yeah, it's pretty
7:44
standard at Pom Pom.
7:48
Mia Hobbs: It'd be lovely to hear about how your knitting
7:50
stories then collided and created Pom Pom magazine.
7:56
Meghan Fernandes: Yeah, I mean, it was 10 years ago now, right?
7:59
Mia Hobbs: Happy birthday!
8:01
Meghan Fernandes: Thanks! I think we started talking about
8:03
it in January 10 years ago. So like, down to the month,
8:06
probably. We worked together at the knitting shop Loop in
8:12
London.
8:13
Mia Hobbs: Was that at Cross Street? In the first location?
8:16
Meghan Fernandes: Yeah, in the little one!
8:17
Mia Hobbs: Because I actually used to come in there. I lived
8:19
around the corner at the time.
8:21
Meghan Fernandes: Well, you probably saw one of us. [Laughs]
8:26
And then Lydia went to Mexico for a while, and lived there.
8:31
And then when you came back, I was pretty much like, "Let's do
8:34
something. What are we gonna do?" But we had both recently
8:41
finished MAs, and Lydia's was in linguistics and mine was in
8:45
English literature, and we were, I guess, both kind of at loose
8:49
ends. I don't know if that's true for you. But yeah, I didn't
8:54
really know what I was doing with my life. We kind of decided
9:00
that we wanted to create a project. And working in the shop
9:06
was lovely and so inspiring, and we saw a lot of magazines coming
9:12
through and saw there wasn't really something that really
9:16
spoke to us. So we decided to do it kind of as an experiment, I
9:20
feel like! And then it went really well.
9:23
Lydia Gluck: Yeah, I feel like we went into it, like you said,
9:29
like an experiment or a creative project. We didn't launch a big
9:33
branded business. We didn't really have a business plan.
9:37
[Laughs] And I feel like we've said quite a lot since that,
9:42
perhaps, it's good that we didn't think it through too
9:46
much, because we might have been overwhelmed by it. In fact, I'm
9:50
pretty sure we would have been overwhelmed by the amount of
9:53
work it was going to be, and about the amount of things that
9:55
we didn't know about publishing. I mean, Meghan had a bit of a
9:59
background in publishing, and we had people we could talk to, and
10:02
we did the research we needed to do. And like Meghan said, we
10:05
were in the shop, kind of seeing what was going on in the
10:08
knitting world. Well, in that corner of the knitting world.
10:12
But yeah, it's amazing that it's been 10 years.
10:19
Mia Hobbs: Mmm. Well, I'm really glad you did. I think sometimes
10:22
that happens with knitting. If I look back on it, I think, "What
10:26
was I doing starting that really ambitious project or thinking I
10:29
could knit this thing without a pattern that I would never do
10:32
now that I know more about how these things work!" But because
10:36
I was naive and didn't know any better I just went for it. And
10:38
actually, sometimes, I mean, certainly in your case with Pom
10:41
Pom magazine, it's worked out I think, guys! [Laughs] I'd love
10:48
to hear more about... I know, Meghan, when we spoke about
10:50
setting up the interview, you said that you guys often talk
10:52
about the role of knitting on mental wellbeing and that that's
10:58
something you guys feel strongly about. I'd love to hear a bit
11:01
more about how you think knitting benefits your mental
11:05
health. Lydia, do you want to start?
11:07
Lydia Gluck: Sure, yeah. It's definitely something that both
11:13
Meghan and I have spoken about, and we as a team. And then it's
11:16
also something that comes up a lot in conversations about
11:19
knitting with people I know who don't knit. I think there's
11:22
probably been a bit more awareness recently about the
11:27
benefits of doing things like knitting. But for myself,
11:30
personally, I think what we spoke about already, you know,
11:35
that if you're somebody who maybe finds it hard to sit still
11:38
and concentrate on something, it can be a really nice way to kind
11:42
of quiet that part of your brain that's quite sort of fidgety.
11:46
Like, I'm a real fidgeter by nature. If I'm not knitting, I'm
11:49
probably fiddling with my hair relentlessly or something. I
11:52
can't seem to keep my hands still. So I think that's good,
11:58
because it allows me to concentrate better, and then to
12:01
feel better subsequently about myself. Because I think it's
12:06
easy to be hard on yourself, if you're struggling to concentrate
12:09
on something, and if you can find a way to manage that,
12:12
whichever way works for you (and for me, for example, knitting or
12:13
Mia Hobbs: For you, does it matter what it is you knit? Is
12:15
crochet works) then that's a positive. And I just feel like
12:20
it's that nice feeling of being able to see your time. So you
12:24
can kind of see maybe you didn't get up to much over the last
12:28
couple of weeks, for whatever reason, maybe you just didn't
12:31
want to, or nothing really came up that you wanted to make plans
12:35
for. It's nice to be able to look back and be like, "Oh,
12:39
yeah, maybe I started a pair of socks, or maybe I even finished
12:43
them. Or maybe I just decided on some colours for something that
12:46
I want to make." And it kind of gives shape to time in that way,
12:49
which I think can be quite reassuring.
12:58
all knitting equal?
13:02
Lydia Gluck: I think the way that I knit has changed over the
13:05
years, and I think it used to be that I would quite often want to
13:08
make really challenging things. And nowadays, at least at the
13:13
moment - you know, that could change again - but at the
13:15
moment, I feel like I mainly am drawn to knitting things that I
13:20
find relatively straightforward. So for example, I could listen
13:23
to something at the same time, or be doing something else at
13:27
the same time. So in that way, it kind of matters like gauging
13:30
what kind of project I want to make, what kind of energy do I
13:35
have at the moment. And I guess there are certain things that I
13:39
just really like. I just love making socks, big fan of making
13:43
socks. I'm always constantly making socks. I really like
13:48
making things I can wear, I suppose, for want of a better
13:54
way of putting it.
13:54
Mia Hobbs: And will you think more about the end product or
13:56
more about the process? For me, I think more about the process.
14:02
The more I knit, I'll think "I need to do some colourwork" or
14:04
"I need to do some cables". And then I'll find something that
14:07
fits that, that I always want, but...
14:10
Lydia Gluck: Yeah, I think it's a balance. I think that for me,
14:13
what I want from my knitting at the moment is something a bit
14:20
steadier and less challenging. That will kind of inform what I
14:23
decide to make. Because it might be that I'm drawn to a certain
14:27
pattern, but I just think, "You know what, maybe now isn't the
14:30
right time and I'll come back to that when I'm feeling a bit more
14:33
ambitious".
14:36
Mia Hobbs: How about you, Meghan?
14:39
Meghan Fernandes: Well, I feel like there's so many parts of
14:41
it. Like Lydia was saying about that feeling of being at a loose
14:47
end or if you're not really getting up to much, which I
14:49
think a lot of us can relate to in the last couple years. But I
14:53
remember before we started Pom Pom and before I kind of... I
14:58
don't want to say figured out what I was doing with my life
14:59
because I don't know that I've still done that [laughs]. But
15:03
when I didn't have a job and I was really kind of aimless,
15:11
knitting and (on Ravelry) cataloguing my projects, having
15:17
that sense of accomplishment every day was really good for
15:21
me. And the sense of community that came from that, even though
15:26
a lot of it was online at the time, was really helpful. I will
15:32
say, there have been different times in my life where
15:35
something's going on with a friend or even with me, or big
15:41
life changes, if someone has been ill, or even died, or
15:48
having a baby, whatever it is, sometimes knitting, either for
15:53
them or not even for them, but just sort of processing that
15:57
information while you're making something is really helpful. And
16:04
it's almost like a form of release or a way of just working
16:10
through that information but physically with your hands, and
16:15
creating something out of that. And even if it's something that
16:18
I've just kept for myself, or whatever, it's still really
16:22
helpful. But yeah, I think one of the main benefits of knitting
16:31
to my mental health is colour, and being able to play with
16:35
colour, and you can be so specific about what colours you
16:40
are using and what you're going to be looking at for hours and
16:44
hours and hours. I feel like colour really has that huge
16:48
impact on my personal mental health inside.
16:53
Mia Hobbs: Sorry about that. So you were saying that colour is a
16:56
big part of why knitting feels therapeutic, so you get to kind
16:59
of combine different colours. And I think that's a really good
17:02
point that you actually have a long relationship (or I do!)
17:06
with the knitting project when it's in your hands, because I'm
17:09
not necessarily that fast. But I might decide I really want a
17:14
yellow jumper or something, and that cheers me up while I'm
17:17
working on it and then afterwards, too. How about you,
17:20
Lydia?
17:22
Lydia Gluck: Oh, yeah, that's pretty much my favourite thing
17:27
ever anyway, and so to be able to work with colour in knitting
17:32
is just one of the great joys. And actually, there's exactly
17:36
what Meghan said, there's an aspect of processing things, and
17:42
it's kind of a meditative thing in a lot of ways. But there's
17:44
also an aspect of distraction, and I think that that's okay; I
17:48
think a certain amount of distraction... not a
17:51
pathological amount where you're ignoring things, but just if
17:54
there's a lot going on and things are tough for whatever
17:58
reason, then sometimes it's just really nice to take a moment if
18:02
you can, and just be like, "I really like the way those two
18:04
colours look together" and just allow yourself to get involved
18:08
in something that you do have control over, to a certain
18:12
extent. Obviously we've all had projects go wrong and continue
18:14
to do so, but even when they go wrong, you can unravel them and
18:19
have another go, and that in itself I find really comforting.
18:23
And so I think sometimes it's quite nice to just be like, "I'm
18:26
just gonna think about this for a little bit and pause the other
18:30
things."
18:31
Mia Hobbs: Yeah, I think that's a really good point. And
18:32
actually, it's not something that's come up, I don't think,
18:34
in the podcast so far, but I think certainly in Coronavirus
18:40
times, there have been times where I felt like I needed
18:43
something that was within my control. And that was to choose
18:47
some sparkly navy blue yarn for socks with little flashes of
18:50
rainbows that I could be in control of when everything else
18:55
was big and scary and not in my control at all.
18:57
Meghan Fernandes: I think that's a really good point about the
19:02
unravelling because I was talking to some quilters
19:05
recently, and I was like, "Oh, sewing freaks me out." Because
19:09
once you cut into that fabric, you can't go back. So it's
19:12
something particular about knitting and crochet where there
19:15
is that reassurance that you can just unravel it and start over
19:17
again. That's really nice.
19:19
Mia Hobbs: Yeah, absolutely. I've been running therapeutic
19:21
knitting groups and that's something we've been practising:
19:24
the idea of making safe mistakes. In knitting, unless
19:28
you get the scissors out, you really have got always what you
19:32
started with, even if it goes terribly wrong. And I felt the
19:37
same about sewing, actually. I did start dressmaking and the
19:40
idea of cutting into the fabric... there's no going back
19:43
from that, is there? [Laughs] And also with your point about
19:46
portability, I think after having children that certainly
19:51
made knitting more accessible for me, because I could knit in
19:55
five minutes when I wasn't ever sure how long a nap was going to
19:58
last; whereas to get a sewing machine out or... I guess with
20:02
other hobbies like art or things, there might be more
20:06
things you can't take around with you, like you can with
20:09
knitting.
20:11
Meghan Fernandes: Yeah, I agree. [Laughs] I mean, I was able to
20:16
knit while I was feeding a baby, early on, which is huge.
20:23
Mia Hobbs: Good skills, good commitment! [Laughs] And what
20:27
kind of things are you drawn to, Meghan, at the moment in terms
20:32
of what knitting floats your boat right now?
20:34
Meghan Fernandes: I agree with Lydia that I like to knit things
20:37
that I can wear. I do make things for my kids, but they
20:42
don't appreciate them as much as I do. [Laughs] I'm not
20:50
monogamous with the types of things that I knit. But I've
20:55
been doing a lot more crochet recently. I do like to make
20:58
garments even though in Texas I don't need them that often! But
21:04
living here has meant that I'm experimenting with other plant
21:09
fibres and figuring out what I can wear in Texas when it's hot.
21:17
But yeah, everything! But I have been on a little bit of a
21:22
sweater kick since August.
21:26
Mia Hobbs: Sure. Do you mind what type? I can see you're
21:28
wearing colourwork at the moment. In terms of technique,
21:33
does it matter to you?
21:35
Meghan Fernandes: No, it doesn't matter. [Laughs] But I think I
21:40
am into projects with more than one colour, because it's fun.
21:45
Mia Hobbs: So you like combining those colours as well?
21:47
Meghan Fernandes: Yeah. And I've gotten to a point now where I
21:51
shouldn't really buy yarn. So not having a sweater quantity of
21:57
one colour means that I have to figure out how to mix them
22:01
together.
22:02
Mia Hobbs: Okay. Yeah, just an added challenge! And in terms of
22:09
thinking about the benefits to your mental health, how much is
22:11
that also true of the things that you've made if you're
22:14
making garments and then wearing them afterwards? Because I
22:17
suppose for me, I feel like I still get a boost to my mood on
22:22
days when I can wear something I've made. And maybe people also
22:25
notice and ask about it. I don't know about you guys...?
22:30
Lydia Gluck: Yeah, like we've been saying colour is, for us at
22:35
least, one of the great joys of knitting and making things. I
22:41
tend to sort of stay in love with colours, you know, I might
22:44
find new colours that I love, but it's pretty rare for me to
22:47
change my mind about and no longer like one. So if I've
22:51
chosen a colour for a jumper, or whatever it is, pair of socks or
22:54
a hat, that every time I wear it, I'm just like, "I love this
22:57
colour!" And it's also just a nice feeling to have made
23:00
something that you wanted, and you got to make it and maybe you
23:04
have a nice connection to the yarn in some way or to the
23:06
pattern in some way. Or maybe you have memories of when you
23:09
were making it and who was around or who you were talking
23:12
to, and it kind of brings all of that back. And also, selfishly,
23:16
I like it when people are like, "Oh my god, I love your jumper!
23:18
Did you make it?" Then you're like, "Yeah!" I always say that
23:21
winter, as it starts to get cold, at least for the more
23:26
traditional British knitting, making jumpers and so on, less
23:30
plant fibres, it's just a great season. It's a great season for
23:34
compliments! [Laughs]
23:35
Mia Hobbs: Yeah! I don't think there's anything wrong with
23:39
that. I think that's great to feel like you get a little boost
23:42
from somebody saying, "Oh, you're so clever to have made
23:45
that!" Because it's not even just that you look nice, it's
23:48
also an even better compliment, really!
23:51
Lydia Gluck: Yeah, it takes the focus away from how you look. It
23:59
feels like a compliment that I can more easily take on board.
24:05
If someone knows I'm a knitter, and they're like, "Oh, did you
24:07
make that jumper?" and I did, then I'm just like, "Mmm yes, I
24:10
feel good about this."
24:13
Mia Hobbs: How about you, Meghan, with your relationship
24:15
with the finished articles?
24:17
Meghan Fernandes: Yeah, as soon as it did get cold enough here
24:21
to wear sweaters, somebody in the line to pick up my kids was
24:28
like, "[Gasp] Your sweater!" and I was like, " It's my time! This
24:32
is our season!" [Laughs] But, yeah, it feels great. And I
24:40
think one of the great things about knitting is that you can
24:43
make exactly what you want. I've never seen another sweater that
24:48
looks like mine, you know, in these colours and this design,
24:52
and it's exactly what I intended, and I think that's
24:56
really satisfying. Especially if you are particular about what
25:00
you wear, then being able to make that vision come true is
25:08
really satisfying.
25:12
Mia Hobbs: That's brilliant. Thank you. And I'd love to ask
25:15
each of you about a significant knitting project. You can
25:19
interpret that however you like. It could be something you've
25:22
made, it could be one of the Pom Pom designs or... I know you've
25:25
both designed, haven't you, for Pom Pom?
25:28
Meghan Fernandes: I think I have an answer. Lydia, do you
25:32
remember the mittens with the colour outline? We kind of
25:42
figured those out together. And that was a really satisfying
25:46
process. They look really simple, but in order to do them,
25:51
we had to do an Estonian technique. So it's a plain
25:56
coloured mitten, but it has like an outline all around the edge.
26:00
And so they look very simple, but I was like, "I want mittens
26:04
that look like this, but I can't figure out how to make it
26:06
happen". But Lydia had read this Estonian knitting technique
26:12
book, and was like, "I think it might work like this". So we
26:15
figured it out together, and it was a really satisfying, fun
26:21
thing to figure out. And I think that for designing, figuring out
26:28
how to do something that's not always immediately obvious is
26:35
really fun.
26:36
Mia Hobbs: So you like the kind of challenge element of it?
26:39
Meghan Fernandes: Yeah.
26:41
Mia Hobbs: How about you, Lydia? Can you think of a significant
26:43
project?
26:44
Lydia Gluck: Yeah, I think so. I have two things come to mind.
26:48
One of them is my Quadrillion jumper which is a jumper or
26:54
sweater that Meghan designed for issue six of Pom Pom. So that's
26:59
now eight and a half years ago or something, quite a long time
27:02
ago. And I made myself a version of it in the same yarn as the
27:11
original, in the Uncommon Thread BFL, but mine's in... I think
27:15
it's called Meadow Grass, and it's a kind of limy greeny
27:19
colour. I really loved making that jumper, because it's quite
27:24
a good combination of... there's lots and lots of different
27:29
cables on the front of the jumper, so you're paying
27:34
attention while you're doing that part, but then, for the
27:38
rest, it's moss stitch and a bit more straightforward. So it's
27:41
got this great combination of challenging and more mindless
27:45
knitting. But I think it was just, at the time, something I
27:49
was really proud of because it was exactly what I wanted. And
27:51
it was just really lovely that Meghan had designed it and then
27:54
I got to wear it. And it was kind of part of Pom Pom. And
27:57
then the other thing I was going to say is maybe Woodwardia, when
28:01
I made and designed that, because that was something I'd
28:05
had in the back of my mind for quite a long time. It's a kind
28:08
of raglan jumper with a sort of purl stitch design on the
28:12
raglan. And then that led to me working on the raglan book that
28:16
we published a couple years ago. Wait, was it a couple of years
28:19
ago now? I think it was in 2020... maybe it's like a year
28:23
and a half ago. But that book was something that I really
28:29
loved creating. And then that jumper was the kind of start of
28:32
it.
28:34
Mia Hobbs: Okay, great. So it was a jumper AND a kind of, I
28:37
don't know, foot into the book.
28:39
Lydia Gluck: Yeah, exactly. And it's something that I still wear
28:42
quite a lot, as is Quadrillion. So they're both things that have
28:45
remained kind of staples in my wardrobe.
28:49
Mia Hobbs: I wonder if I could take the opportunity, just in
28:52
terms of my fan-ness of Pom Pom magazine, just to say about how
28:57
Pom Pom was kind of pivotal in my knitting journey as well. I
29:02
had been a knitter... So I, like you Lydia, had learned to knit
29:08
when I was seven and had some Donald Duck needles and made a
29:11
very tight and very holey blanket for a mouse and then had
29:14
stopped. And then my mum taught me when I was doing my doctorate
29:19
because she said I needed to do something that was not related
29:21
to psychology. And then was kind of knitting but that was pre-...
29:26
I mean, it wasn't pre- the actual internet, but it was
29:28
pre-YouTube or anything like that. So I'd learned from a
29:31
book, and then years later (it was about 2016, probably) I
29:36
taught a whole group of people at work to knit because we were
29:41
making blankets for somebody who'd had babies. And so then I
29:46
taught some slightly younger people to knit, and the first
29:49
thing they did was to look on the internet and go on
29:51
Instagram. And I had not thought there was anything on Instagram
29:54
for me, I thought it was about celebrities and diets! And then
30:01
she was like, "Oh look, there's all this cool stuff!". And that
30:03
was how I discovered Pom Pom magazine, which really started
30:07
me on a different trajectory of knitting garments. I made a
30:11
Vellamo sweater and various other projects. And I think it
30:15
made a big difference, learning about this Instagram community
30:20
and learning that there were more patterns out there and
30:23
things that I actually could see myself wearing, that I had no
30:27
idea that existed because I learned to knit before any of
30:31
that was there, I suppose.
30:34
Meghan Fernandes: That's so lovely! Thank you.
30:38
Lydia Gluck: Yeah, it's always so lovely to hear.
30:40
Mia Hobbs: I guess you guys hear a lot of stories about knitting.
30:44
Do other people tell you about knitting and how it's impacted
30:49
people's mental health? Is that something you hear about often?
30:53
Lydia Gluck: That is a good question. And I'm finding it
30:56
weirdly difficult to answer! I think at the moment, my work
31:02
life is obviously very knitting-related. But actually,
31:09
outside of my work life, I don't talk to that many knitters. So
31:16
not so much. But I often have exchanges where people want my
31:24
stories about knitting, I suppose. Which seems like a
31:27
shame. I feel like I'm lacking in other people's knitting
31:31
stories.
31:32
Meghan Fernandes: We get sent proposals for people's personal
31:38
stories about how knitting has helped their mental health.
31:43
Obviously, we can't publish them all but I feel like we do get a
31:46
fair few people reaching out to us with their stories about how
31:52
it's been healing after an injury or an illness or a major
31:58
life change, or...
31:59
Lydia Gluck: Yes, you're so right. I think the word
32:02
"story"... for some reason, I was imagining people talking in
32:05
real life.
32:06
Mia Hobbs: Do people do that anymore? [Laughs]
32:10
Lydia Gluck: "No" was my answer! [Laughs]
32:16
Meghan Fernandes: We published a story about a friend of ours
32:20
whose recovery from alcoholism was really helped by his
32:29
learning to knit.
32:29
Mia Hobbs: Yes, I read that one.
32:31
Meghan Fernandes: I can't remember what issue that is now,
32:32
but it's a great story. One of my oldest friends recently broke
32:44
her back, and has been recovering from that and
32:49
multiple surgeries. She's actually a surgeon herself, and
32:53
she's finding it very hard to lie around [laughs] doing
33:00
nothing, basically. I sent her a copy of our beginners book, and
33:06
some yarn and needles. She's been staying at her mom's while
33:10
she's been recovering, and she's like, "As soon as I get home,
33:12
I'm turning my guestroom into a craft room". She's a total
33:15
convert now. She texts me every day showing her progress. And
33:20
you know, it's gotten a lot better as she's been going on,
33:23
and I think it has given her a sense of purpose and direction
33:32
in a time when she's been kind of struggling.
33:35
Mia Hobbs: That's brilliant! And it must be a really hard time to
33:38
think, "Oh, I can't do this, I can't do that, I can't do
33:41
this... but this I can do!" And I guess being a surgeon, she's a
33:44
high achiever. She's going to go with it.
33:47
Meghan Fernandes: I know. [Laughs] Yeah, she is a high
33:50
achiever so she was a little hard on herself at first, but I
33:54
think it's been good for her.
33:57
Mia Hobbs: I think it is really powerful that, like you said,
33:59
you can see and touch your progress. It makes it easier to
34:05
notice, doesn't it? And I actually just was writing a blog
34:08
for somebody else about the therapeutic benefits of craft,
34:11
and one of my three top tips was to show and tell. I think when
34:16
we're adults, we're not that good at showing and telling. We
34:19
get out of that habit. Kids do it all the time; they draw a
34:21
picture and they immediately want to show you. But I think
34:24
having someone you can text, even if it's two rows of
34:26
knitting, text a picture and they'll say, "Well done!" That
34:29
does make a difference, doesn't it?
34:31
Meghan Fernandes: It does, yeah. Definitely.
34:34
Mia Hobbs: Has your relationship with the knitting changed since
34:37
it's... I guess it's been your job for a long time now, but I
34:40
don't know whether you ever feel like it feels too much like work
34:45
now? Or not really?
34:46
Lydia Gluck: Not the actual knitting itself, because our
34:51
jobs are knitting-related... I mean, they're pretty much all
34:56
about knitting. But actually making things... I mean, it's
34:58
not NOT part of our job, but that's not the main thing that
35:02
we're doing when we're working for Pom Pom. My relationship to
35:08
knitting has changed over the past 10 years, but I think it's
35:12
not entirely to do with my job. I think it's more to do with
35:14
more general shifts in life. Actually, knitting has been a
35:18
real constant. It's quite amazing how much... I had to
35:21
take a break from it at the beginning of last year because I
35:24
got repetitive strain injury in my elbows, which was really
35:27
difficult actually, because I remember just thinking, "We're
35:29
just about to go into a lockdown here. What am I going to do? I'm
35:35
not allowed to go out and about (and quite right) but what am I
35:39
going to...?" I was almost quite panicked! But aside from that
35:44
break, I've very steadily knitted. And if anything, Pom
35:48
Pom adds a positive dimension to knitting because it means that
35:56
you see people sending in submissions, or you see a new
35:59
yarn that you haven't worked with yet, and it kind of keeps
36:01
the excitement, I think.
36:03
Meghan Fernandes: I think when we first started, the problem
36:05
was that we didn't have enough time to knit. [Laughs] We were
36:11
always like, "Aargh, we started this knitting magazine and now
36:14
we have no time to knit because we're always working on it!" But
36:18
we've got lots of colleagues now so that we do have more time to
36:26
knit. But yeah, you're right. I have never fallen out of love
36:31
with knitting on this trajectory, and I'm constantly
36:37
inspired.
36:40
Mia Hobbs: The last question that I always ask is about the
36:43
greatest gift that knitting has given you for the rest of your
36:46
life. Any thoughts?
36:48
Meghan Fernandes: It's Lydia! [Laughs]
36:52
Mia Hobbs: Aw! What a great answer! I mean, other people
36:56
can't get one though, so... [Laughs]
37:00
Lydia Gluck: Yeah, and I would say the greatest gift has been
37:03
Meghan and the people that we work with.
37:08
Mia Hobbs: I guess you get to curate your own team now!
37:11
Meghan Fernandes: Yeah!
37:14
Mia Hobbs: Of cool people.
37:17
Lydia Gluck: Yeah, that's the first question on the
37:18
application form: are you cool? [Laughs] You have to be cool.
37:28
Mia Hobbs: Do you mean like your relationships more than Pom Pom?
37:32
Or both?
37:33
Meghan Fernandes: Yeah, it would be sad if Pom Pom ended but it
37:40
would be sadder if Lydia and I ended, you know?
37:44
Lydia Gluck: Yeah, I would agree with that. I think there are
37:51
lots of kinds of partnerships in life, and I think a creative
37:55
partnership is a kind that maybe doesn't get discussed as much.
37:58
And actually, I think it's really lucky that we met each
38:00
other when we did and that we happened to both be a little bit
38:04
at a loose end. We have similar vision and taste for Pom Pom,
38:08
but it's not the same and that's really important. And I think
38:13
that without Meghan, I definitely wouldn't have been
38:16
able to achieve anything even close to what we've done with
38:19
Pom Pom. And it's kind of the power of both of us together.
38:24
We're a sum greater than our parts.
38:27
Mia Hobbs: Yeah. But actually, also, there's been a lot of
38:31
evolution on that journey, I guess, that it started off as a
38:35
kind of creative project. And then got quite big and you
38:39
probably ended up doing lots of different jobs. And maybe you've
38:42
ended up back in more of the creative director role, probably
38:46
through having to also be the people who wrap things and
38:49
figure out how to produce things and all of those things... that
38:53
you've managed to maintain your friendship and be good business
38:57
partners throughout that. And an international move also, Meghan?
39:03
Meghan Fernandes: Yeah, I was thinking about recently the
39:07
moment when I told Lydia I was moving. [Laughs]
39:11
Mia Hobbs: How did that go?
39:13
Meghan Fernandes: Not really great! [Laughs]
39:16
Mia Hobbs: That must have been scary for both of you.
39:17
Meghan Fernandes: We were both pretty stressed out about it, I
39:19
think. But we did it and it was fine. And actually it's been
39:25
good I think! For Pom Pom.
39:28
Mia Hobbs: I don't know, Lydia, whether you were kind of
39:30
co-opted into Meghan's answer [laughs] or whether you wanted
39:34
to have a completely different one, which you're also allowed
39:37
to!
39:39
Lydia Gluck: I don't feel like I was co-opted, as Meghan said the
39:42
thing that I couldn't... I hadn't quite got my brain into
39:46
gear. Yeah, I was just trying to think, I don't know what the...
39:48
Aside from the gift of making, which I think is pretty much my
39:55
favourite thing to do in my life, to make things. And
39:59
knitting is not the only way in which I make things, but it was
40:03
the first one that I really got into, the first craft that I
40:08
really kind of... mastered is not really what I mean, but you
40:13
know... the first craft that I really put a lot of time and
40:16
energy into, enough that it became something I could do
40:20
whilst watching TV or whatever. I had that real muscle memory.
40:24
And that's led on to me learning other crafts too. I think it's
40:31
good that it started with knitting.
40:32
Mia Hobbs: Super, thank you. If people want to find out more
40:36
about Pom Pom, or about you guys specifically, how can they do
40:40
that?
40:41
Lydia Gluck: Well, you can find us on Instagram @pompommag. And
40:50
our website is pompommag.com. I think in most of the places we
40:53
are pompommag. Is that true? I can't remember now.
40:56
Meghan Fernandes: We're pompommag everywhere.
40:59
Mia Hobbs: There's also the Pomcast.
41:02
Lydia Gluck: Yes. So we have a podcast which is normally me and
41:06
Sophie, who works with us, presenting although we do often
41:10
have other Pom Pom people on and guests. And you can find that as
41:16
Pomcast in I think pretty much all of the podcast-related
41:19
feeds.
41:20
Mia Hobbs: Thank you so much, Meghan and Lydia, for joining
41:23
the podcast.
41:24
Meghan Fernandes: Thank you!
41:25
Lydia Gluck: Yeah, thank you so much for having us. It's been
41:26
really nice.
41:29
Mia Hobbs: Thank you so much for listening to the Why I Knit
41:31
podcast. If you'd like to find out more about therapeutic
41:34
knitting, you can follow me on Instagram
41:36
@knittingistherapeutic, or at my website therapeuticknitting.org
41:41
where you can also sign up to my newsletter to receive my blog on
41:44
the themes from series one. If you're enjoying the podcast, I
41:47
would really appreciate it if you could leave a rating and a
41:50
review on your podcast app. This will help grow the podcast and
41:54
let more people know about the therapeutic benefits of
41:56
knitting. And don't forget to subscribe too. Thank you!