Latest / Caught on the Mike... / Dylan Espeseth

Transcript

Dylan Espeseth · Caught on the Mike...

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Disclaimer The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of any entities they represent.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Listener discretion is advised.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Some of the best songs don't come from overthinking, they come from finally saying the thing you've been holding in.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Today I'm joined by Seattle artist Dylan Aston, who's new titles wine after that exact moment of emotional clarity.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: From teaching itself production during the pandemic to opening for the Rocket Summer, Dylan's journey has been about rediscovering purpose and leaning into raw honesty.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: We get into fast strong riding, strip facts down to what his new chapter says about the album on the horizon.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm super excited to welcome Dylan at the stuff to the show and learn more about what's to come.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, this is Caught on the Mic.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of Caught on the Mike.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Today's guest is an artist who understands the power of saying exactly what you mean, even when it's uncomfortable.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Dylan Espisev just released his new single, Wine, a stripped back emotionally honest track that proves that sometimes the most powerful songs are the ones you don't overthink.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Drawing from emo folk and modern influences, Dylan's music lives in the space in between vulnerability and clarity.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking about instinctive songwriting.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking to Dylan Esposith.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Caught on the Mike.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: How are you doing, my friend?
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing great.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: I am awesome.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm awesome.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: It was a 75-degree day here in the Midwest today.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, what the hell, bro?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: So let's get right into it.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about wine.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: It just dropped.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: What headspace were you in when this song came together?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: And why did it feel so effort effortless compared to other tracks?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: I think like when I wrote it, I was in a very like reflective time.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like everything I was writing was kind of thinking about my life and the two or three years prior and kind of how everything that had led me to that moment and everything I'd done and all the things that like had changed and things that I missed and made me sad, but also things that like changed and I looked back and I was like, that's so much for the better, and all of that, and kind of trying to parse out like what is it and could I be in this same place without these things that at the time I perceived as negative happening, and are some of these negative things really for the better in the long term, and all of that.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I think just writing and thinking about that so much, when I came and finally came up with the idea for kind of the initial start of wine, I literally sat down with my guitar and pretty much freestyled the entire first verse and then wrote the other two verses in like 20 minutes after that, which is I think maybe some of the fastest I've ever written a song from having nothing to basically a completely written song was like 25 minutes, which for me is like crazy.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I think just yeah, being in such a headspace of reflecting on that at the time, I had so much that was kind of like pent up in all of these questions and thoughts without answers necessarily that I'd been swirling in my head for weeks at that point, that when I finally started kind of spitting it out and putting pen to paper, it all just manifested in coming out so smooth and so effortless.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: So because it came together so fast, do you trust those fast instinctive songs more than the ones you labor over?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: And why or why not?
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: I think I trust them more, but in the long term, I think the ones that take a lot of work I feel more proud of.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like I have another song on the album that was maybe the hardest song I've ever written, where I wrote like 30 verses and none of them quite felt right, and it took me truly probably weeks of sitting down and consistently writing to come up with like the entire song structure.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so that song I think was a lot less enjoyable in the moment to write because I was like stressing and anxious, and I don't know, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to pull this off, and I really like this part, but I don't know if it goes with the rest of it.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: But when I look back on that song, that's like one of my most proud things because I'm like, wow, I really stuck through and now coming out the other side, I think it's some of my best writing.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: But I think with something like Wine, where it just comes out of me all at once, it feels probably the most honest to how I was feeling in that moment.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: Where I think there's parts of it where I listen back and I'm like, if I wrote this today, even a couple months later, it might be a little different.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: But because it came out so smooth, I know a hundred percent that's exactly what I was thinking and feeling in that moment.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love that.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: Completely natural.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love that.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, do you spend a lot of time like woodshedding your stuff, like writing a song and thinking it's done, and then be like, all right, I gotta overhaul this thing.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: I do, yeah.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of my like writing process, quote unquote, I feel like is so inconsistent because so much of it is I write something and I'm like, oh, that's a great song.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: And then six months later, I find the voice memo of another song, and I'm like, oh, actually, this section, this bridge could go really well with this verse from another song I wrote.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: Let me mix and match them together and rewrite and rework all of it back and forth.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like very inconsistent, but I think I've kind of gotten to a point now where every time I have an idea, I'll just record it as a voice memo, even if it seems like something I hate, because there's been a lot of times where I think I don't like a verse I write, and then a few months later I'm like, oh, actually, if I adjust the context and put it with this bridge, I really like it.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: It just, yeah.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: My gosh, that's so funny.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: I love hearing this because back when I was doing the band thing, you remind me so much of one of my best friends.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: He's been my best friend for so many years, and we used to woodshed songs all the time, and it used to get under my skin and I'd be like, Corey, just shut up.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: I hate you right in this moment.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: But he was always right, and we'd always clash over it, but it always came out better at the end.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, do you do you have other people that you collaborate with?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: Right now, like on the album, I would say the the main person is Aaron Sprinkle, who produced it.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think most of it I wrote just alone in my room, but I would send him kind of acoustic demos as I was writing songs and get his feedback.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: And like a lot of the track list came down to I would send him four different demos and be like, which of these two, which two of these four do you think are the best?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: And he'd be like, I think these two.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so then I'd sit down and kind of double down on polishing those ones off and that kind of thing.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I'd say, like, for this project specifically, he was like a huge collaborator in obviously the production side, but also in setting the track list and figuring out what was the overall sonic direction and figuring out what the songs are.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: And there were a few songs that I wasn't even sure if I wanted to put on there, and he was like, no, let's at least try it.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then they ended up being some of my favorites on the project.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: So well, I love how you kind of went back to the idea of just sitting alone recording with an acoustic or like tracking out your ideas with an acoustic because this song in particular, wine in particular, feels so conversational, almost like overhearing a late-night conversation.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: When you're writing, are you thinking about the listener at all, or is it purely self-processing at first?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: I would say at first it's pretty much purely self-processing.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: Once I get kind of later and start like actually launching logic or whatever on my computer and building out a demo and adding harmonies and vocal layers, even just for like the acoustic demo, I think then I start thinking about kind of the audience and how how is this gonna play off to them and how is this gonna fit with the other projects and kind of the overall narrative of the other songs I'm putting out and that kind of thing.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: But the initial writing phase, I think, is usually very insulated to just like this is what I'm thinking and feeling right now.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: Let me get this down and then worry about the rest and how it fits with the project and how it's gonna interpret to the audience and all of that after the fact.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna get out my surgical tools here and get into your influences a little bit.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: But there's yeah, in all of your music, you know, enjoying it this afternoon.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: I I listened to a bad bunny playlist and then I listen to yours.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's relevant.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: But uh but I I but I listen to all of your music and you know nostalgia comes to mind pretty heavily whenever I hear your songs.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: What's your relationship with nostalgia like?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a great question.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I talk about it on on wine.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's it's definitely like a double-edged sword to me, because there's a lot of I think great stuff that comes from nostalgia and looking back and having all of these good memories, but then at the same time, I think, at least for me in my experience, a lot of the time when I look back on moments, I tend to only think about either the good or the bad.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: It kind of my mind like separates them into black and white when there's always so much more nuance.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: But like I'll look back on things I did in high school and I'm like, oh, this memory is so good.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: When in reality there were probably in that moment I was probably feeling other things as well, or I'll look at things and be like, oh, this was all bad.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: When in reality it's it's a mixed bag, you know, where there's moments that are good and moments that are bad and a lot of overlap between them.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I think with nostalgia in general, like there's a lot of nostalgic things I enjoy from my childhood, but also I think reflecting on it too much, a lot of the time I get caught up in the in the I don't even know what the word I'm looking for is, but I just get over like I'm overthinking everything and looking back on moments in through rose-colored glasses and then also through negative Nelly glasses, I guess, of this moment was all bad in reality.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: It it brought a lot of good things together and helped me meet people that I love and all of that, and all of these things happen at the same time, so it's impossible to, you know, butterfly effect without one little thing happening, I wouldn't be here.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so it's definitely a complex relationship.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: I am so glad you said that.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I had a guest on a couple years back, and is a really, really good friend of mine, and I kind of posed a similar question to him, and I said, you know, you think about life in this post-pandemic world.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like our relationship with nostalgia has changed hugely because of everything that we experience, that whole shared experience we have where nostalgia is almost like a high wire, and you could fall off at any time.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: And one side of the highwire is like almost like a semi-depressive state, and the other side's almost a semi-manic, like euphoric state, depending upon how you get caught up in that nostalgia.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, totally.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: I feel that for sure.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like back in the pandemic, there's a lot of moments that I'll look back on and be like, oh, this was such a fun memory and moment.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'm like, in reality, in that moment, I was so stressed and anxious about everything and going home from college because of the pandemic and everything, and doing online classes.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: And in the moment, I was like dreading it, and then there's moments where I look back on it and I'm like, oh, I kind of missed that.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: When if I actually went back, I think I would hate it.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: Or vice versa.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: There's moments where I'm like, oh, that sucked.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'm like, but to go back and be in that moment with those people, even though I was feeling anxious or depressed or whatever, like I would love to go back and relive that moment.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I think there's there's definitely both sides of the same coin there.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: And what's weird now is we're to a place where there's even moments from the pandemic itself that are kind of starting to feel nostalgic.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I know you're a TikTok, an avid TikTok user.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: There would be like a sound clip lately.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'll I'll be scrolling, and it's like an old school sound clip from the peak of the pandemic comes up, and I'm like, huh, I kind of miss this part of it, you know?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, your influences span emo folk and modern hip hop from Saves the Day to Dashboard to Juice World and Little Peep.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: How do those worlds coexist in your songwriting without clashing?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think honestly, there's a huge overlap between all three of those that I feel like goes underrecognized.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: Where when I listen to like dashboard confessional or something, I feel like it's half a step away from just being like indie folk a lot of the time.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's the same like emotional lyrics with the acoustic guitar, and the folk stuff I think is just like you take a if you take out the violins, a lot of the time you're you're basically you replace the acoustic guitars with some electric and you're singing some pop pug songs a lot of the time.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think there's there's a huge overlap in the way that they write and the way that they build songs.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I think like when I was first learning how to play guitar, most of my like guitar skills just came from learning how to cover like Lumineer's and Mumford and Sons songs.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: I was just learning like those indie folk acoustic songs, and that's kind of where I learned all of my chords and my like vocabulary for writing and playing music.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I think going that as I'm starting to write a lot more emo stuff and that kind of thing, having that bass line, I found like so much of it is hugely overlapping.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's super similar chord progressions.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of it's just the the difference in what words you're singing or just your vocal tone while you're singing them and that kind of thing.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I think even with a lot of the like emo, hip-hop, that kind of thing, like Lil Peep and Juice World both had songs where they were, you know, sampling or remixing like underrated pop punk and emo songs and that kind of thing.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the the like lyrics and and spirit and emotion of someone like Juice World is so much more similar to like a lot of those emo bands than I think people give credit for.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: So when you were first learning and you were kind of learning some of those lumineer songs and such, would you learn like a chord progression and then try and write your own song around something very similar?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, a lot of the time I would do that, especially when I was starting out, like not knowing how to write a song.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like starting by just taking a chord progression or even sometimes not with one side release, but just to get better at it or to learn how to write a song, I would fully take the chord progression and the melody and just sing my own words, like karaoke style, basically over it.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like that that like foundation of even just learning how to sing and play guitar and think of lyrics while you're playing, like that kind of thing, I feel like was such a fundamental foundation.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: And then I think as I got better and learned, I just kind of figured out, oh, okay, if you're playing in this key, you can take these five or six chords and put them in a different order, um, and they'll mostly sound good together, and then just guess and check and test them for what fits the vibe I'm looking for and that kind of thing.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: And what's funny, and the reason I asked that is because I took a very similar approach whenever I first started playing, but I was listening to your music and your melodies are somewhat percussive on a lot of your songs, and that's gonna be a challenge to sing that way and be able to execute the playing side of it at the same time occasionally, isn't it?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't I don't even know how I got to be able to do it because there's moments where I like think about it and I'm like, if I tried to play like this guitar strumming pattern five years ago, I think I would implode.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: I don't like something in my brain just switched at some point where I was like, oh, now it's super easy to do whatever strumming pattern with whatever lyric pattern and it just like clicked.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: But I have specific memories of like trying to learn songs when I was first learning how to play and being like, I don't know how anyone strums a strumming pattern that's not just like full down strum, bum bum bum bum bum.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I don't know how, but somehow it just clicked in my brain and I've been able to do that.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: But I've noticed even sometimes like if I go too long without practicing, I'll play one of my own songs, and I'm like, okay, I gotta like listen back to remember exactly how I did this.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I get thrown off still on stuff I write, yeah.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: So is there a certain like artist that you'll sit down and try covering their songs just to get that muscle memory so you're able to separate your playing and your singing a little bit?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I don't know that there's one specific one, but there's definitely a few.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: I remember like when I was first learning how to do like a lot more rhythmic strumming, I was listening to a lot of Mumford and Sons at the time, and they have a lot of songs that have like some big, very rhythmic guitar parts.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I was in a band in high school and we were trying to learn how to cover one of their songs, and I remember I was like falling apart, struggling to like get that strumming pattern, and then I think just like sitting and listening through that song so many times is like one of the big ones that helped it like click for how to do the like da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da, without just going like straight down strums to be doing fast rhythms on the guitar and that kind of thing.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then the other one is probably just like Bob Dylan.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's maybe less so for like strum patterns, but I've been more recently trying to learn a lot of his songs to get better at uh like finger picking and that kind of thing.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was one of those things.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: And and honestly, I didn't gain full appreciation of him until recent years, but like myself sitting down with a guitar, like learning John Mayer and Dave Matthews songs because of how complicated some of those parts are to play and sing at the same time.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why I asked that question.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: So you grew up with orchestra and vinyl records through your dad.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: How did that early structured exposure to music change the way you approach something as raw and lo-fi as wine?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think I was just always kind of introduced to very emotional lyric-first, stripped back music.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I mean, coming off of us talking about Bob Dylan, like that's one of my dad's all-time favorite artists.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like he his lyrics are unmatched for the most part by a lot of people.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I think like having that as one of my like core growing-up memories, hearing such lyrically dense music, I think is like a huge thing for why I came to value like lyrics so much just as a concept.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: And then hearing so much, just yeah, early 2000s emo, alternative rock, I feel like really got me into the very uh like raw, passionate vocals.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I think also just kind of knowing my own strengths led to that a bit as well.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: When like when I was in high school, I was doing a lot of uh covers and that kind of thing for my YouTube channel, and I just realized like I don't think with my voice that I'm ever gonna like outsing Mariah Carey or Justin Bieber or whatever.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm I'm not gonna sing their songs better than them, but like one thing I can do is sing something that I write incredibly honest and with full heart and full force and full passion.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I think just like realizing my own voice and my own words and my own emotion are like my greatest strength when I'm playing music and kind of leaning into that and realizing the only thing that I have that no one else has is my own emotions and experiences.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: So just putting my full heart and soul on display in everything I do, I feel like is the my greatest strength as a artist, so to speak.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: And you kind of took a break, not to go back to the whole pandemic talk, but you took a break from music for a time during the pandemic, and then you came back fully self-producing.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: What clicked for you during that reset that changed your relationship with making music?
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think so much of it is just like realizing that like you don't know what you don't know, more or less.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: When I first started making music, I was just acoustically producing stuff in Garage Band and putting it out, and I was like, oh, okay.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: And like I could acknowledge, like, oh, my production's not as good as a lot of other people, but I didn't even know necessarily what it was missing.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I think taking all of that time off and being forced just back home inside, I was experimenting a lot with my production and also just watching so many tutorials and realizing, like, oh, there's so many like little things I'd never even thought of that doing this one little tweak to the EQ on my voice makes this sound a thousand times better, or doing this like layer with the guitar improves things a thousand fold, and all of these little things that I never even thought about and never realized were elements of music production, but being home with so much free time just watching tutorials and listening to music helped me realize how much stuff I was missing.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: So then I think when I started kind of coming back and getting back into production and recording and writing and releasing stuff again, I had all of this newfound knowledge that I didn't even know I was missing before being forced back into my home to just watch tutorials.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, falling fast or connected with people during a really isolating time.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Did that response change how vulnerable you were willing to be with music moving forward?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think it really did.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: With writing vulnerable stuff, I feel like the scariest part, especially when I was starting, is knowing like my first several releases, I was putting out, I was releasing music for two or three years at a time when I had like I was itching to hit double digit monthly listeners.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: I was averaging like eight to twelve monthly listeners for years straight and releasing music.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think the the hardest part of that is just knowing like all of these people is are like my family and friends that are listening to it, which I love my family and friends, but I feel like it's almost harder to be fully raw and honest and vulnerable.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Putting music out to eight people that you know in real life, then when it finally started connecting and I had kind of an audience and platform, it feels so much easier to be like, okay, I'm being vulnerable to this group of 10,000 people right now than just eight people that I know in real life.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: And it almost like softens the blow of sharing such like intense details of my thoughts and feelings to everyone, knowing that it's not as much of a one-on-one and it's more of a big group situation.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, there's actually a term for that, and you know, and I say this with nothing but love to your family and friends, but familiarity bias and proximity envy is what it is.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Familiarity, bias, and pop proximity envy.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where, you know, the people that are around you can be a limited audience, right?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because they're already familiar with you.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: They already see you every day.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: So they don't fully see what you're fully capable of.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes your biggest opportunity is to like just be like, you know what?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: I love you guys.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: You guys are my best friends, you are my family, but my audience does not include you right now.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really how I'm gonna find myself as an audience, uh, as an artist, you know?
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, sometimes there's more of a malicious slant to it, but you know.
• 23:29
  unknown: Yeah.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, yeah.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: So for wine, you intentionally lean back into an acoustic and strip down sound.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: What does rawness give a song that polish sometimes takes away for you?
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think it kind of forces the listener to reflect on what's actually being said.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a lot of the time it makes what's being said feel more real.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like even just from a listener's perspective as a fan of music, there's a lot of songs where I love the song and then I listen to like a version of it acoustic or live or something like that, and I realize there's like an entire layer that I had missed as a listener because you get so caught up in you're singing along but not thinking about the actual words, or kind of dance into it, but you're not reflecting on the actual way it's being said, and that kind of thing.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: Where I think when something's stripped back like that, it kind of forces you to focus on what's being said and also what the like what's being felt by the person singing.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it lets you have a lot more emotion in the way you're delivering it as the artist sometimes.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh certainly it depends on the song, but I feel like with wine going in to the like vocal booth and singing just over my acoustic guitar felt like I was giving like a vocal delivery that felt a thousand times more honest than I would have to something that was more produced out with synthesizers and electric guitars.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: Even though I'm sure there's a version of the song that's produced like that that's still great.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like for this one specifically, having it be cut back like that really let my uh vocals shine through and be as emotive as I possibly could be.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, thinking about that authenticity and kind of the world that we live in right now, where social media drives so much of everything that people ingest as far as pop culture goes.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: What has been your I would say strongest avenue for getting your music out there and building an audience, leaning into that authenticity?
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think just being completely vulnerable with everything I post.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, granted, I think like everything I post, there's like some level of performance and like you're you're only seeing what I'm letting you see, I suppose.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: But I think trying to kind of intentionally be completely honest, and there's moments where I post something and I'm like afraid to post it because I'm worried, like, oh, is this gonna make me sound annoying or whiny if I post it saying this?
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: Or am I, I don't know, does my hair not look good in this video, or all of these like little things that can add up.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: But I think I've been trying to especially recently like encourage myself that maybe less so if it's a situation of like, oh, my hair looks bad, but if it's something that I'm afraid to say, I think a lot of the time it that more so needs to be said in a case like that.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: So would you would you say that TikTok is more your preferred route, or are you kind of equally straddling both like TikTok and Instagram, or is there another avenue that you're kind of spreading the news of Dylan with?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think I'm more so equally straddling TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube right now, but I'd say I definitely prefer TikTok.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: Something about it I think makes me feel a lot more confident in posting like as much as I want in less polished stuff, where like Instagram I think is becoming more and more like TikTok, but still a lot of the time I'm afraid to post like the same kind of content.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas TikTok, I feel like I can just fire it up and be like, I just had a thought three minutes ago, or here's a little joke I just thought of, let me put it on screen behind in front of my song, or whatever, just kind of one-offs.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas Instagram, I feel like a lot of it, not so much polished, but just more planned out and like I don't post as much on Instagram as I do on TikTok because I feel like it's a more uh I don't know, I feel like it's it's more of a profile-based thing.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas TikTok, I feel like people only find it via scrolling.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: And no one's going and stalking my TikTok profile.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: So it feels a lot more safe to just post a million times a day whatever I'm feeling.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas Instagram, I feel like I kind of intentionally try and limit the amount I'm posting on there as opposed to just posting every single thought I have all the time.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: Do you ever feel like a prisoner to the algorithm?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes for sure.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think it varies from time to time, but the algorithm can be so like fickle about what it's looking for, which is stressful.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: There was a time like probably two months ago where everything I was posting on any platform was getting like 15 views, and I had no idea why.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: And then like a month later, I was posting essentially the exact same kind of content and it was getting like 10,000 views, which is just such a struggle because I'm like, I'm posting the same thing, and one day it works and one day it doesn't.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I I have like an audience and I have these people who follow me that I think would really like this new song I'm putting out, but none of them are hearing about it, which is such a bummer.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: But I think I'm both grateful for the algorithm because I feel like it got me in front of these people in the first place, but also I dread it so often because it yeah, it can't make up its mind whether it loves me or hates me.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like some days it does both at the same time.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: So have you kind of crafted any hacks for yourself to kind of break that cadence?
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've been trying to, but I feel like the other thing with the algorithm is they change it like it feels like every other day now it's completely new, which is a struggle.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: Every time I come up with like a new format, or I'm like, oh, if I post a video that's only eight seconds long, people have to watch it twice, and then they make it so those videos actually get zero views now or whatever.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think my my only main consistent hack is whenever I post my song Falling Faster, it does a lot more views than anything else I post, just because I think so many more people know it.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: So now I've kind of fallen into a rhythm where like every time I'm about to put out a new song or announce it, I'll post like one video of Falling Faster, and that gets me like a couple hundred thousand views on my page, and then I post the next day my new song, and hopefully those people that had forgotten about me stick around enough to find it.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's been working decently well, but it's tricky for sure.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know what's funny?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: I I at the start of the year, start of 2026, actually it was like the last week of 2025, I started a separate TikTok account where I kind of promised myself, I'm like, this is not podcast related.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: This is just me, like me vlogging.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I I have a challenge to myself every single day for 2026.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: I have to do at least one post.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like numbering every single post every single day, and it's not related to the podcast whatsoever.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: As a result, my podcast traffic on my podcast TikTok has started, you know, churning up a little bit more.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Is it correlated?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think it might be.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a cool idea.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I did a similar thing, maybe similar, but also maybe the opposite.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: I started another page called 2 Dylan Two Espiseth.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that one I only post acoustic versions of me singing my song.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: So it's exclusively like I post them on Instagram and stuff too, but it's exclusively videos of me like out in the woods playing my song acoustic.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: Pretty much none of the videos are like actual camera filmed, they're all just my phone, and pretty much all of them are just me acoustic, like no actual audio or produced sound or anything.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's been doing surprisingly well too.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then I've been trying to be consistent and still posting on my like main regular TikTok page, more so stuff that's got the produced audio and higher quality camera shot stuff and that kind of thing.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: But it's it's definitely interesting.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: I think also just like breaking up the like what people are seeing from like an audience perspective, I think people find this other new page and they're like, oh, this is like totally different.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's so awesome.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: And it like reinvigorates them to go listen to new music that they may not have even known I had put out, which is fun.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I tell you what, I I talk to a lot of people in musician circles, and I've heard a lot of them like turn their nose up at TikTok.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, if you are a creative, whether you're in music, whether you're in art, whether you're a podcast or stand-up comedy or whatever, and you're not embracing TikTok to some degree, yeah, you know, throw throw all the politics and everything you want to say about it out the window.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just talk about it.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: As a platform, it still has the loosest algorithm of any social media out there.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, like to shun it is to almost shoot yourself in the foot.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, I I know for me, like, it's probably different because I I really do enjoy making videos.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like back in high school, I was doing vlogs on YouTube all the time and doing like comedy sketches on my YouTube channel and parody videos and covers and all sorts of stuff.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I've been making videos before TikTok was ever a thing, and so I do just love making videos, and I know some people like dread that element, but for me, I also love like I feel like there's an extra kind of creative challenge of it where like I have content that I shot like with friends or with directors or music videos and that kind of thing that I post on there, but I also think it's so fun to be like, what can I post today that is new and feels original and feels like it elevates the song and I can just shoot it right now by myself.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like that's like a fun creative challenge of like, how can I think of a new like angle to film this at where when someone sees it, they're like, wait, what's going on?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then sticks around for the song.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: And like I almost view it as an extension of the music in a lot of ways.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, there's definitely times when I post something just because I'm like, oh, I need to post something, but I think there's also a lot of times where to me the things I'm posting are a part of the song.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm coming up with ideas and coming up with quips and captions and explaining the lyrics to the song and doing fun video angles and trying to like capture emotion and like almost picturing it as this is part of the art project that is this album, are these clips from music videos and these videos of me playing the songs acoustically in a tree, and these videos of me wearing an insane outfit walking down my street in the middle of the night?
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's all an extension of the music.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you know, that reminded me of something I kind of learned about you recently is didn't you or weren't you able to increase the views on your music using a video from when you were younger?
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like what oh gosh, I'm trying to remember the story because it was on one of your TikToks where you you actually submitted one of the videos from when you were in high school to another like online site.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Tell the side.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: I had like forgotten about that.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's like such a deep cut.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: There's this uh YouTuber named Danny Gonzalez, who I've been watching for like a long time.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: He's one of my very favorite YouTubers.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: And back when I was in high school, he it was right after Vine had shut down, and he was huge on Vine.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: So he was kind of just starting up his YouTube channel, and I think he had like maybe 300 or 400,000 subscribers at the time.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I was a big fan, so I followed him on Twitter and Instagram and every everywhere.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and he posted just like, hey, I'm looking for videos to react to and that kind of thing.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I submitted one of my videos that I had made back in high school with my friends when I was first getting into both music and videos.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: We made it's like very bad, but kind of in a fun way, I think.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: We made like a Valentine's Day love song parody where we essentially like recorded and produced this song and then took like the auto-tune filter on Garage Band as high as it would possibly go.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: And we like filmed a funny little music video of us doing like synchronized dances and that kind of thing.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I sent it uh just like over Twitter when he said he was looking for stuff to react to and make videos about, and he ended up making a video that was just I don't remember what it was called, it was something like roasting my fans videos or something like that.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: And he like put that in his video, and that video I think came out like right before he started to like super blow up.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so when he posted it, I think he had like a few hundred thousand subscribers, and then over the next like two months went to like a few million subscribers.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: So, as a consequence of him blowing up, that specific video got a ton of views, and then my video on my YouTube channel got a ton of views.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: I think I took it down now or privated it, but last time it was up, it had like 50,000 views.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: It was one of my most viewed videos, and that was how I got my first like I want to say 500 YouTube subscribers, and I had like a couple of songs on my Spotify, and I think I got like a hundred new Spotify followers or something when that happened.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, that was definitely like the the origin of a lot of my followers.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: I still get comments randomly on like my YouTube channel or my Instagram that are like, Whoa, I remember I found you from this Danny Gonzalez video eight years ago.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: I can't believe you're still making music and that kind of thing, which is super cool.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: Or even people who are like have been following along the whole time and they're like, Wow, it's crazy how much you've changed from doing auto-tuned parody videos to releasing actual music now, which is very funny.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: There's a there's a saying that there's no such thing as bad press.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: Press is just press.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it if it brings them to the show, all you have to do is get them to stay there.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right, exactly.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: So you've been opening for artists like The Rocket Summer while also protecting space to recharge.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: How do you balance this newfound momentum with your mental and creative health?
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think my general outlook right now is just trying to like like I've made the music, I've finished the album.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: So right now my main focus is just like how do I get this to as many people as possible?
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think just making sure that I'm taking time aside to take care of myself and spend time with my fiance and recharge and write and work on making new music, but at the same time do everything I can to get it in front of as many people as possible.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's definitely a tricky balance, but I think the the nice thing about like playing music live and doing like my first little bit of touring and doing like shows like this and posting on TikTok and all of that kind of thing, is I'm I'm trying to kind of keep my outlook positive, but so much of it I feel like it's not even hard.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: I just enjoy doing it.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: When I like play a live show, I feel like it's the stressful part is traveling and going and sleeping in a hotel for two nights and driving across the country or flying across the country.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: But when I actually like get up and get to play my music for people and share those songs, I feel like that almost in and of itself recharges me and I reminds me of like, okay, yeah, this is why I'm doing it.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I think every like little win I have with a video doing well or um a post doing well on YouTube or going and playing a show for people or anything of the sort, I think like gives me a reinvigoration on my mental health and like reminding me what I'm doing all of it for.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I think there'll definitely come a time, I'm sure, in like a couple months once the uh once the album's out and everything, where I'll be like, okay, I gotta take a couple weeks to to recharge.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: But right now I think I've been posting like every day and trying to play as many shows as possible, whether that be full shows with a band or just acoustic I'm playing by myself at a coffee shop or a winery or whatever it may be.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think just every every little win and every new person that finds my music gives me like a nice little little boost of like, okay, yeah, this was worth it to do.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it like, yeah, almost self-charging every time I get to go play a show.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: It it wears me out, and then by the time I'm done with the show, I'm like, oh, I was so glad I did that.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, without giving anything away, because we need to leave cookie crumbs for people so they can just follow you and watch the evolution of your career.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: You have a full-length album coming out this year.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Emotionally and sonically, what can listeners expect that feels like a true evolution of Dylan Espisseth?
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think sonically, it's a lot more fleshed out and produced.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mentioned earlier I worked with Aaron Sprinkle on the production for this whole album.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: So it's much more fleshed out than a lot of the stuff I'd done in the past, which was mostly acoustic, self-produced stuff.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think sonically, much bigger, I would say, and a lot more dynamic, um, which is very exciting to me.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a direction I've been wanting to take a lot of my music for a long time.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I have like a couple of songs that I wrote years ago and was waiting for a moment when I could fully flesh them out this well.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I'm super stoked on that.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I think emotionally it's very similar to what I've done in the past, but I think just trying my best to go even deeper and even more honest and vulnerable with all of my lyrics.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's this quote from I think it was Billy Corgan from Smashing Pumpkins that I'm probably butchering it, but it was something along the lines of the best lyrics are the ones you're like most embarrassed of and don't want to share.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I've been trying to kind of embody that of like there's been times when I write a lyric and I'm like, oh, I don't know if I want to put that out.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like that that's that's too much.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I've been every time I kind of have that feeling, trying to fight back against it, um, and go, if if I feel like maybe it's too much, then maybe it's what someone needs to hear right now.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um and kind of double down on going as vulnerable and honest about everything I'm thinking and feeling, positive and negative in every way.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think just yeah, emotionally the same but to the extreme, and sonically, a whole new direction, but also very much based in the same the same world.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: I I'll tell you, I I can feel a sense of maturity in wine that's just it it's not dramatically different, but it's just a slight bit different than the rest of your works that are available, which really makes it exciting for for someone like myself to hear this full album once it drops.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and so I'm gonna throw my curveball closing question at you.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: What is your advice for making the world a better place tomorrow than what it is today through your eyes and your experience?
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: One thing I've been thinking about a lot lately is almost zooming.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if the right word is zooming out or zooming in, but I feel like looking at the world and everything going on, I feel like it's so easy to get caught in like, I mean, understandably and justifiably, like anxious and stressed about so much of what's going on.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: But I think focusing on the like little things that you can control and how can you like day to day, what can I do for the people that live, like neighbor metaphorically, but also literally, what can I do for the people that live next door to me to help them and to make them feel loved and safe?
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_02: And what can I do to take care of my elderly person who lives across the street from me?
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: And what can I do for the people in my community?
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_02: And how can I go and volunteer volunteer with the food bank or some local nonprofit and really like zooming in on your literal community um of the people physically around you, of your friends and your family and the people that you don't talk to but you see walking their dog in your neighborhood every day?
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_02: And how can I how can I find little ways to help and like actually make their lives better?
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think those little things add up so fast for um not only your community, but I think the world as a whole when we have that outlook of looking for ways that we can help people and improve their lives in our day-to-day life.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_02: I think that helps shift our mindset and helps shift other people's mindsets and just makes us a more loving and welcoming and engaging community and world and city and country and everything all together.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think it all adds up much more than you realize.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I think starting with the little things that are easy to do and easy to control is the the best way forward.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, it's so funny.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: I put up a very similar post the other day, and it was kind of along the lines of like it's almost like resetting the algorithm in the real world.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like imagine if people spent the same energy they do highlighting the negative and just instead use that energy to do good and be good and share good, like how much the world would change.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we get so caught up in like seeing stuff online and being like afraid and angry and filled with hate and rage and anxiety.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then I think like taking a step back and looking at the people around you and reminding yourself, like, this is why, like the reason we want to have a good world is because of the people around us and the old woman who's walking her dog in my neighborhood and the child who lives next door to me, and just seeing like, okay, this is my literal community, this is why we want to have a good world and a good place to live, and just reminding yourself of the the positive things in the world and doing what you can to improve and build on that.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for doing the podcast.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: The world is a much better place with you in it.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate that.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: Once again, I'd like to thank my friend Dylan Espisteff for joining me on the show today.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: He's got a full-length album coming soon.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: In the meantime, make sure you go to Spotify and you check out his music.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: It is awesome, it is unique.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to hear the whole thing fully fleshed out.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure you give him a follow on social media at Dylan SBC.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: As he said, he is the most active on TikTok and Instagram.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: While you're being generous with the follows, make sure you're following at Caught on the Mike on all social media platforms.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: Email me, caught on the mic at gmail.com for all guest inquiries, and visit my website, www.cotonthemic.com, to learn more about me and the show.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: This has been Caught on the Mike with Michael Clark.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Michael Clark.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, thank you.