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Private Event Liability with Evan Garcia of Simon Law Group · Justice Team Podcast

• 0:00
  Bob:
• 0:01
  Welcome to this episode of the Justice Team Podcast on the Justice Team Network where we give practical how-to to lawyers, how to win their cases, how to be better lawyers, better human beings. Not so much better human beings because we have a very low-life on the podcast today, his name's Evan Garcia.
• 0:02
  Evan:
• 0:03
  It is relav and I'm not going to argue, I think my wife would a little bit, but otherwise.
• 0:04
  Bob:
• 0:05
  Not too much pushback. But Evan is a partner of the Justice Team, runs the Texas office. He's from Houston. He does a lot of trucking cases, kind of his niche. We also have, what he's going to explain a lot, this episode's going to talk about what we call private event liability. So if you're running a concert, I know we do a lot of private legal events like we do Law-Di-Gras, we put on a concert. Evan has a few cases with the Eclipse, for instance. What were they called, the Eclipse party?
• 0:06
  Evan:
• 0:07
  Yeah, no, the Eclipse Festival outside of Austin.
• 0:08
  Bob:
• 0:09
  Yeah. We've heard the horror story. You've heard about the Frye Festival. We heard about the Travis Scott concert gone wrong.
• 0:10
  Evan:
• 0:11
  Yeah, and unfortunately, add this to the list, I think it really starts from just being too big for your britches. I think that these promoters get excited about selling tickets and putting on... I don't doubt that they're trying to do good intentions of putting on the best show possible. But what happens is they oversell these things, inadequately staffed from volunteers to the vendors they work with. And when you just get that many people together in a remote place, shit fucking hits the fan.
• 0:12
  Bob:
• 0:13
  And a lot of times when they're doing things where you're building your own venue like they did at the Eclipse party, like with the Frye Festival, and then we do Law-Di-Gras, you're literally building a stage. You're building a stage, you have to bring in your own power. There's all kinds of different things you have to think about and liability shifting, waivers, stuff like that.
• 0:14
  Evan:
• 0:15
  Yeah. And in this one it was... I'll call it a campgrounds of sorts.
• 0:16
  Bob:
• 0:17
  What was it called?
• 0:18
  Evan:
• 0:19
  The Eclipse Festival in the city of Burnet, which is outside Austin. And so some of the problems that we're seeing, and unfortunately we have some cases, really, I think I'd say that most of them are centered around the medical assistance or the medical tents that they had set up. From just unfortunately just completely inadequately staffed from know-how to even equipment. We're handling a wrongful death that frankly should have never happened. And I think that we're still in the investigation process, but it is obvious that they didn't have the right equipment. And had they had the right equipment, I don't think [inaudible 00:02:42]
• 0:20
  Bob:
• 0:21
  There are a couple of things that usually when you're putting on a private event, concert, festival, you usually have the promoter, you got the venue, the people that own the property, you have a lot of vendors servicing them. Who does it usually boil down to, who's the usual one that's the insured under the contract has to be liable at the end of the day?
• 0:22
  Evan:
• 0:23
  It's usually the promoter. And what we've seen is in the contract, and so a promoter will want to put this together, they're going to go find the various vendors that help facilitate the actual festival, so from folks that provide the medical care, to water, to sanitation services, to security, to stage, all that stuff. And so in those contracts, what we've seen time and time again is usually even a provision that straight-up says, "Hey, look, you are our vendor. We, the promoter, and oftentimes the company, we're taking the responsibility to put this festival on to a reasonable standard."
• 0:24
  Bob:
• 0:25
  And if something goes wrong, they agree to what's called indemnify them, which means they pick up their defense, their insurance pays for all the things if things go wrong. And same thing if you see one at a venue or a hotel, usually the promoter's the one that absorbs that liability on behalf of the hotel or the venue.
• 0:26
  Evan:
• 0:27
  That's right. And what we've found a lot, and I guess a practice tip is be clever with your public record requests. And so every state's going to have some sort of version of the Federal FOIA request. And where you start with is you contact the government agency, and really a shotgun approach, send them to everyone you can, but you want to find their permits, you want to find any correspondence that the city had with the vendor. And a lot of times they're going to provide a permit with conditions.
• 0:28
  Bob:
• 0:29
  It's funny you say that because a lot of times in the permit they always say way less attendees, they're doing all these things, it never happens.
• 0:30
  Evan:
• 0:31
  It never happens. And that really is foundational, where you start. And obviously, you don't need to be in litigation to get those. And so start getting those early. But if you're smart, what you got to do before that is you need to get your preservation letters out. And that really, again, shotgun approach.
• 0:32
  Usually a lot of these, like the Eclipse Festival has a website, you can find a lot of these vendors. And the letters say something to the effect of like, "Look, this isn't a shakedown. This happened. We represent a various variety of people, variety of claims. Please keep XYZ communications in your contracts." Look, shit went down, from I think we talked about the wrongful death, to inappropriate touching, sexual assault in some of the med tents. There's a whole side of the ADA Camping that they set up, had some issues. And so we're getting folks kind of across the spectrum. It just seems woefully staffed, understaffed, I should say.
• 0:33
  Bob:
• 0:34
  Yeah. And even if you have fireworks or pyrotechnical, you have to go to the fire department, get a permit. I remember, I didn't tell a lot of people this story, but when I proposed to my wife, I actually did a firework show for her in Indianapolis this is before I even had money. But I had to go get a freaking permit from Indio, the City of Indio to do a fireworks. I remember writing like, "How many people be in attendance?" I'm like, "Two. It'll just be her." I put up a little tripod to videotape, which I think we still have. I had to get a permit for that.
• 0:35
  Evan:
• 0:36
  I think that the viewers want to see it.
• 0:37
  Bob:
• 0:38
  Oh, dude, I got to find it.
• 0:39
  Evan:
• 0:40
  I think that there should be a little click here to see my poor attempt of a proposal.
• 0:41
  Bob:
• 0:42
  Oh, man. Yeah. I think I played some Stevie Wonder. Oh god, it was good.
• 0:43
  Evan:
• 0:44
  Okay.
• 0:45
  Bob:
• 0:46
  It was 2009, 2008 when that happened. Dang, was an iPhone even around then?
• 0:47
  Evan:
• 0:48
  No, dude, that's like the little slide lens camera. I'm impressed. Wow.
• 0:49
  Bob:
• 0:50
  I remember it was on a camera phone. I had to put a real camera and set it up somewhere.
• 0:51
  Evan:
• 0:52
  My goodness. Christine is a lucky gal.
• 0:53
  Bob:
• 0:54
  For sure. I fooled her, tricked her. Going back to-
• 0:55
  Evan:
• 0:56
  Yeah, I mean, look, bottom line, I'm sure they promoters think that too much red tape. But when you get this many people together having a great time, no doubt about it, more power to you personally like to go somebody as myself, but you got to do it right. And what we find oftentimes is your classic profits over people. I mean, policies flow down, profits flow up. And if it's not planned and appropriately staff from the jump, it's going to flow down.
• 0:57
  Bob:
• 0:58
  A lot of times promoters or a lot of times fly by night. Companies that literally start their company have a private LLC just for this one-off event. They'll go get insurance for this one-off event name these other vendors or the venue as an additional insured. And that's the one that you're going after. Something happens. Now, that doesn't change the story. If one of the vendors, the med tent or somebody do something that's directly negligent, that they're doing something that's very bad, that's just not because of the event. They're also responsible on their own.
• 0:59
  Evan:
• 1:00
  For sure. And that's a great point. I mean, when we're looking at it, there's a few layers to this. And I think what we're seeing, just for example with the Eclipse is just a systematic failure to put it on correctly. And look, there's a lot of people that had a good time, but golly, there's a lot of people that did not have a good time and have problems.
• 1:01
  Now, putting that aside, there are certainly the... We'll call it when let's say an employee of the contractor who's supposed to provide a service does something wrong. So that's another potential avenue. And I think you hit it on the head too. Look, some of our cases, I mean, they've come from these big, big festivals to these legal conference, well not legal conference, but smaller conferences at a hotel. That same idea applies not to the same scale. And often, at least I think in our experience, I'd say it's fair to say that those are often more the fly-by-night operated. Who the hell knows?
• 1:02
  Bob:
• 1:03
  And you got to do your homework sometimes. I know Evan goes to a lot of these conferences for research. He's an annual attendee at the Furry Festival to get some... What kind of costume do you like to wear?
• 1:04
  Evan:
• 1:05
  Well, I usually rotate from, for whatever reason, I just love Burmese Mountain Dogs.
• 1:06
  Bob:
• 1:07
  Oh my God.
• 1:08
  Evan:
• 1:09
  Maybe it's because of Brandon's Dogs.
• 1:10
  Bob:
• 1:11
  This is funny because my brother has a bunch of Burmese Mountain dogs.
• 1:12
  Evan:
• 1:13
  I got a couple and you should come next year. I don't know. You want to come? It's in New Orleans.
• 1:14
  Bob:
• 1:15
  I could make a very bad joke right now, but...
• 1:16
  Evan:
• 1:17
  Oh God, you're not running for president.
• 1:18
  Bob:
• 1:19
  No, not anymore. Well anyway, so we're talking about event liability. A lot of things go into putting these usually done years in advance stuff like... He just caught my joke, this guy.
• 1:20
  Evan:
• 1:21
  Slow on the uptake.
• 1:22
  Bob:
• 1:23
  But what are some practice points that we could do? Somebody walks into your office tomorrow and they say, "Hey, I was out the Eclipse Festival." What are some things that should be done right away? If somebody goes to a lawyer that's watching this show, what should that lawyer do right away?
• 1:24
  Evan:
• 1:25
  Well, and a few pitfalls as well, and this is even on the consumer side of things, be wary of the terms and conditions on any ticket that you've purchased. And then when stuff hits the fan, say again, beat up in the court of public opinion, they start offering some type of refund. Very common. And in that refund where you might be, let's say, getting your ticket price back or some version of a refund, oftentimes it'll bury terms of conditions in that refund that waives any claims. And so people will perhaps unassumingly just because they want their money back, not realize that they've given up their rights. And so I think it starts with the consumer. The consumer needs to be educated a little bit. No one likes reading these ridiculous terms and conditions, but pay attention. Now, flipping it to the attorney, I think you need to get those preservation letters ASAP to everybody.
• 1:26
  Bob:
• 1:27
  Even to the government involved potentially because usually government liability gets you out six months to usually file a claim. In most jurisdictions, at least get the letter out there to preserve it. You might not ever pursue it, but get it out there.
• 1:28
  Evan:
• 1:29
  And it is crazy. I mean, there are venues, there's a city in Texas and this is a different case premise case though. It's 30 days, you have 30. I mean, that needs to be legislated out. That's crazy. But 30 days. And so if you're not out there quick and you don't have experience handling these cases, you can wind up in some hot water. Act fast.
• 1:30
  Bob:
• 1:31
  I had one case you get look for if it have a city or municipalities putting on the event. I had one that was out in Pomona. They were doing a Halloween festival and they had a giant jumper slide for the kids. It was actually a Titanic. And what happened, they didn't peg down the fucking Titanic and the winds hit and it picked this Titanic up and kids fell off breaking arms and stuff.
• 1:32
  Evan:
• 1:33
  Oh God.
• 1:34
  Bob:
• 1:35
  So we had to fall against the city Pomona, which I love. Great city. I mean they made a mistake through hiring this vendor, but there was all these indemnity things. But that's at a small scale. These are little events, but even big events like the Super Bowl, you remember whenever Dallas had it and they oversold and they had to put people in these seats that weren't really seats over capacity. They did that right away. They emailed everybody or mailed everybody or call them to give them a refund or give them a rebate. "Hey, accept a future Super Bowl or 50% off," or whatever it was.
• 1:36
  Evan:
• 1:37
  Cowboys Super Bowl?
• 1:38
  Bob:
• 1:39
  Yeah, right. Yeah. They're never going to the Super Bowl.
• 1:40
  Evan:
• 1:41
  Sorry Poulter.
• 1:42
  Bob:
• 1:43
  But this is kind of, big events or small events. It's kind of the same theory.
• 1:44
  Evan:
• 1:45
  It is. And look, we've seen them from all shapes and sizes and you referenced the Halloween Festival. We had, I guess I'll call it a pumpkin patch on steroids with various attractions. And it turns out that, and I guess I need to be careful here from that case, but let's just say they offered attractions that needed supervision from folks who were wholly unqualified and we had little kids getting brain injuries. Look, these things, we want to balance the idea of, "Look, everyone should have fun." Let's not put these out of business. Of course not. But there is a level of responsibility that they take on and frankly they're profiting off this least they can do is make sure folks are having a good time and they're safe.
• 1:46
  Bob:
• 1:47
  A lot of times there are amply insured, there's a lot of insurance, and then there's maybe the venue has one that kicks in. There's different tiers, but yeah, walks in your office, go get those preservation letters a one, start your investigation. And a lot of times, some of the other vendors, I always like to hire an investigator early to go talk to everybody, find some other folks. Evan even goes as far as joining social media groups.
• 1:48
  Evan:
• 1:49
  That's right. That's another good point.
• 1:50
  Bob:
• 1:51
  That's smart.
• 1:52
  Evan:
• 1:53
  Yeah. Look, it is just the reality of this day and age. There are Facebook forums, there are Reddit forums-
• 1:54
  Bob:
• 1:55
  Onlyfan forums.
• 1:56
  Evan:
• 1:57
  Onlyfan forums, but those are paid, so I don't know, but Google it. A lot of times when there is systematic, and it's obviously going to depend on the size of the event, but when there's systematic failure like that, you're going to find a lot of folks having problems. And then even on the small side, what I would do is see if you can get a hold of other attendees, I guess is the word, and see if they notice anything. Or perhaps they may had an interaction with the vendor who is providing X service and you can kind of short circuit talking to somebody.
• 1:58
  Bob:
• 1:59
  And it's a lot like what, as a lawyer out there, if you get one of these cases, just find out who's the one that's had the laboring or since the beginning and you find a way to team up with them and do it together rather than reinventing the wheel. I know since we started, I think Evan had the first Rockwell death case that came out of the Eclipse and now other folks have started calling us because they know that Evan's way ahead of the...
• 2:00
  Evan:
• 2:01
  Yeah, and really that's just a kudos of the Justice Team and we can operate at scale. I mean we have the know-how and the backing-
• 2:02
  Bob:
• 2:03
  Thank you Bob.
• 2:04
  Evan:
• 2:05
  ... To get rolling. And so look, if you're out there, read the terms and conditions very carefully. I know refunds, at least for the Eclipse Festival are recently going out there, and so be wary if something happened, you have some questions, if they did you dirty, let us know, happy to chat. And I'm sure you could put our email somewhere right here.
• 2:06
  Bob:
• 2:07
  And that's any event or anything that happens. There's a lot of people that could have shared responsibility. So it's good to reach out to a lawyer just to get a lay of the land. They do it for free. I know you do. Just say, "Hey, I could tell he was probably responsible." Do some investigation to figure out do you have a case or not. A lot of people are just like, "Oh my God is going to cost me a million dollars an hour." No, but they'll pay a million dollars at the end maybe. We'll see.
• 2:08
  Evan:
• 2:09
  That happens to be the magic number, magic number most time. But you're absolutely right. Look, it doesn't hurt to talk to somebody. A lawyer will tell you, "Here's what you're looking at. You might have something here. You may not. Sorry. And it's free." Why not?
• 2:10
  Bob:
• 2:11
  Well thank you for everybody for watching or listening to this episode of the Justice Team podcast on the Justice Team Network. You can go to Justiceteamnetwork.com if you have any questions. You can go to Evan at justiceteam.com. What other ways can they reach you, Evan?
• 2:12
  Evan:
• 2:13
  Yeah, Instagram at evan.esq by Telegraph, I'll put the number here down below. And that's it.
• 2:14
  Bob:
• 2:15
  Yeah. So again, thank you for coming on Evan. We always appreciate your insight. I know you do a lot of complex cases like this, events, trucking ones doing throughout the nation and speaking a lot on these types of things. I know we made a joke about the furry thing, which is not true, but Evan does a lot of, once a month at least speaking at conferences and trade industries on educating people on these types of things. So thank you for watching. Thank you for listening. Go to thejusticeteamnetwork.com if you have any questions on the YouTube playlist or on the Apple Channel.
• 2:16
  Evan:
• 2:17
  Love it.
• 2:18
  Bob:
• 2:19
  Love is strong, upward and onward. God bless-