Latest / The Growth Project / Episode 368: Fight With What You Have

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Episode 368: Fight With What You Have · The Growth Project

• 0:00
  know, in Lindsey Vonn's case, she spent years preparing.
• 0:04
  And that doesn't guarantee success. It doesn't guarantee safety. But at the end of the day, you know, it it allows you to make a decision that you have faith in.
• 0:18
  Welcome to The Growth Project, a podcast brought to you by amylose doctor Dr. Brand, and joined by Doctor Gabby Kabi. It is today for Olympics session one. Yeah. For me. Oh. I'm ready. So our time to shine. I feel like given that the Winter Olympics are going on us and you know, in our industry, performance psychology and athletes are certainly one of the populations we work a bunch with.
• 0:43
  It only feels fitting that we're big into the Olympics, right? Absolutely. So okay, before we get into it, I think it's okay to for our listeners to know our stance on this summer or winter. If you only can watch one, where would you be? Summer now would be summer, but Winter Olympics has its moments, right? No, I agree.
• 1:04
  I mean, I'm by far I'm more of a summer. Yeah, than a Winter Olympics guy. But, you know, there are some events in the winter that I get kind of curious what we're going to be talking about today. But yeah, I mean the, the swimming and the track and field and I love and actually basketball was kind of a sport.
• 1:22
  The basketball stuff. So yeah. Yeah. Summer as well. And if you're you know I, I got to feel especially in a lot of our listeners are concentrated around the southeast but we all in the summer. Yeah. Okay. So Gabby, as we jump into it today. You know, part of what, you know, I think one of the beautiful things about the Olympics is so many of the things that we focus on in the work that we do related to the mind and all things, performance psychology come to life in the Olympics.
• 1:49
  Yeah. Most recently, we've got the example of Lindsey Vonn. I think a lot of our listeners are going to be familiar with, her and her story. What his, his very early in the Olympics taking place. But let's kind of, you know, I don't want to assume anything. Yeah. So so fill us in here a little bit.
• 2:07
  Why are we talking about. Who is Lindsey Vonn? Yeah. I'll give our listeners who are maybe less familiar, a little bit of her backstory. Lindsey Vonn is one of the most decorated alpine skiers.
• 2:18
  To date. And, you know, she actually retired back in 2019. At the time she retired due to her body just sustaining so many injuries and just couldn't physically perform anymore.
• 2:32
  And then this year came out of retirement for the Winter Olympics, and it was a big ordeal, kind of making her debut as a 41 year old, Olympic alpine skier. It's. You heard that correctly? Yeah. 41 year old alpine skier, which is incredible. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, pretty impressive to think about, you know, the amount of skill it takes to go and ski down these courses that are aggressive.
• 3:00
  They, have sharp turns and the way you have to be able to control your body and mind, it's impressive. So at 41 years old, came out of retirement, to compete in the Olympics and unfortunately, a week before her competition, to her ACL in practice. Complete tear, not partial. Yeah, a complete tear of her ACL. And, you know, upon medical examination and discussion with her trainers, she decided to continue on and still compete in the Olympics.
• 3:36
  Which was seven days later. And that puts us at this past Sunday. So let me offer a couple of things to interject here as well, just to set the context for this. So if you're not as familiar with alpine downhill skiing, here are some of the realities of it. A run is around just under two minutes.
• 3:57
  You know, is kind of the approximate time of the at least the one they're doing in this, you know, 2022 Winter Olympics. And, it is got to be two of the most intense, demanding, psychologically stressful minutes of your life. I mean, it's it's there's this minimal, if any, margin for error. Yeah. You were going anywhere from depending on the male female body weight estimates of 70 to 90mph at full speed down these extremely sharp inclines with hairpin turns.
• 4:30
  It's as dangerous as it gets. And so just again, the intensity of it, the demands of it. And, you know, I don't know if I just forget every few years. But in between watching the Olympics or if I never fully understood that, but as even as I was watching over the weekend. That's the great thing about these days, when you watch this stuff on TV, you get data on everything.
• 4:50
  Yeah, including like spouses at the bottom of the hill and all that. Yeah. They were giving heart rate data for spouses. Yeah. But when I saw the speeds at which these men and women were calling, it absolutely blows your mind. Yeah. It does. It's, You know, it is shocking to to see that that speed going downhill.
• 5:11
  And that the amount of skill that takes and then imagining doing that with no ACL. Yeah. No stability in your knee. And so if you're not familiar with the in the ACL go go. Yeah. You got three primary muscles. The MCL, PCL an ACL anterior cruciate ligament which brings stability to the knee. And you know go watch one of these skiers and the like the pressure is there kind of go.
• 5:34
  And that many people ski and you kind of know that you're you're in and you're out. It's it's wild. So yeah. So here's Lindsey Vonn a hero. You know one of the greatest cures ever live tears the ACL a week prior to the Olympics. And then she then faced Gabby with the decision of like what do I do now.
• 5:50
  So so take us down that path a little bit from your perspective Gabby. And talk about some of the psychological considerations and physical considerations of what do you do when you are on what would likely almost certainly be kind of your last hurrah? Yeah. You just torn ACL. You've earned a spot on team USA alpine. What do you do?
• 6:09
  Yeah, well, I mean, you've got to think about the risk involved in your decision making process here. And it's it's going to come down to how much time and effort did I put into this versus what are the risk involved if I continue on, given my condition and, you know, you've spent years preparing for this and, and now you have to make a decision as to whether you're going to see it through or not.
• 6:32
  let's let's look at it from this standpoint. It's a huge decision. You're aware of the risks. One of the things that you and I have seen plenty of times over the years when it comes to working with athletes, is how closely their sport is tied to their identity. This is their profession. And so I mean if you're listening to the podcast today and you know you're not a professional athlete which is certainly possible that play a listener.
• 7:00
  The same would likely be said of you and your profession, whatever that might be, is like much of our identities tend to be tied up in what we do for a living, what we spend our days, focusing on and kind of pouring ourselves into and that type of stuff. So yeah, let's talk about this from an identity standpoint.
• 7:18
  She's she has this huge decision to be made. Yeah. She's grasping you know how grappling with all the considerations. How might the identity piece play a role in how she ultimately decided what she did. Well it's interesting because I, I even heard her speaking on a podcast, and she talks a lot about how being a skier is not, you know, just something she does.
• 7:42
  It's who she is. And when time comes to decide, you know, how much pain can I tolerate? And it's it's really kind of a minimal factor to her because she's she knows that this is what she loves doing. She's wrapped up in it. It is her life. And so it's been clear through her interviews that it's the risk would have to be almost astronomically high for her to walk away.
• 8:08
  Yeah. And that's an interesting, you know, point you're making there to what she said in the interview of it's not what she does, it's who she is. Now many people would say the opposite is true. And many people would say, well no, no, no, no that's not a good way to look at it. You should be thinking about it along the lines of, it's not who you are, it's just what you do.
• 8:30
  And this gets to this kind of like, opens the whole door on some really interesting thoughts toward elite sport. Kind of, you know, the people that are the best of the best of the best in the world. How often are those people thinking about themselves as like I don't know this, this is who I am. And I think from my experience pretty often.
• 8:52
  Yeah. And you know, it's undeniable that there, there can be and often is a real lack of health from a psychological standpoint to in order to get there. There is you don't find when we talk about things like, like moderation and balance and like that is not a very balanced intense. It's not. And what I appreciate about Lindsay Lohan is that she actually makes that point.
• 9:17
  And it's in her book as well. It's fascinating. She'll say, you know, I've sacrificed so much. I've dealt with she talks openly about her struggles with depression and how isolating, being in this world is. But at the end of the day, she wouldn't trade it. Yeah. You know, and that's that's a very common mentality that you'll see to many people who are performing at that level.
• 9:40
  Yeah. There are certain choices you must make. In order to have an opportunity to kind of be in that position, and I would not describe it as as healthy. But it's that, you know, I think it's sometimes really how you have to function. Yeah. Okay. So go back to our question of like, how does that any peace plan and what are you saying Gabby is given that that's how she sees both herself in the world.
• 10:04
  There really was no decision to be made here right now. I think that the decision was pretty clear in her mind is that, you know, I'm going to compete. I've seen other people do it. And she referenced, you know, other individuals who have competed with torn ACL and it's wasn't something that she even felt didn't seem fearful about.
• 10:27
  She seemed very confident in her decision, whether she really. Well, yeah or no. Right. But publicly, publicly, she was pretty confident. You know, it does kind of make some of those interesting questions too, about like what does it mean to be medically cleared. Yeah. You know for elite athletes what does that mean. Yeah. And it gets you know should you versus could you.
• 10:51
  And if a medical professional is willing to say hey you can does that then mean it's a good idea or an appropriate idea. Yeah. Who's who answers that question. I'm not sure. Yeah. Well the thing too is at this level and at the Olympics in particular, we always see these stories of people doing the impossible. Right? And so it almost feeds into that where now it's, you know, just because the doctor says you can doesn't mean that you should.
• 11:19
  But if there's even an inkling of, you know, hope that I can, I'm going to try because I want to be that odd. Yeah. I'm not shocked at all. No. Because because really, when you get down to it, she was going to live with one of two unknowns. She was going to live with the reality and recognition that this injury took from her.
• 11:41
  I'm like, I'll never know. You know, if she chose not to compete, I'll never know how it would have gone or how it might have gone on or no. That's hard. That's hard. And that's exactly what happened with her first retirement back in 2019. She chose not to compete because her body, she was listening to her body and felt like she just couldn't.
• 11:58
  And so I think take that into consideration with now this situation. You don't want to repeat history. You don't want to do the same thing. So, you're going to go for it. You're going to try it. She'd much rather I mean, clearly her decision was to she would rather live with the possibility of what could happen.
• 12:16
  Versus the unknown of like I never tried. Yeah. So Gabby. Okay. So she went for it. She went for it. And what happened. So she went for it. She was actually the 13th person to go. In the lineup and started out she was, you know, at the gate, ready to go.
• 12:36
  She looked pretty composed. You could see her kind of tapping her sticks three times and just really getting ready, feeding off the energy.
• 12:45
  She goes. And 13 seconds in one of her poles hits the edge of one of the, barriers and sends her into a crash. Crashes and breaks one of her legs. Gets airlifted to the hospital. Luckily, she's stable and, in no condition now. But they are not. The outcome that she was hoping for or most of America was hoping for.
• 13:10
  I'm sure right? You know, I remember thinking when I first heard about what had happened and you kind of go over and everything. Me like everybody. My thought was this could be one of the greatest stories ever in all of the Olympics. Yeah. And then, of course, even as I was thinking that I was well aware of the alternative.
• 13:29
  Right. So everyone else and unfortunately, that's what we got. Yeah. So it it will be a story. Probably not one of the greatest given how it happened in how it ended. Right. The result was. Yeah. I mean it will definitely still be a story. It's one where you know we were all hoping for the best outcome.
• 13:50
  But regardless I'll be interested to see you know what. What comes of this. What the. You know how she responds to it even as well.
• 13:58
  So early on that we just don't have the answers to that yet. Yeah. Let's break down one of the fundamentals here for a moment Gabby. You know, I think over the years working with lots of athletes, early performers, I have tried to establish some key fundamentals that they know and are aware of and that we talk about plenty in the work you do together.
• 14:17
  One of them is and you probably have used some of this language as well in your work of just simply fight with what you have. And, and so the idea there is whether you're an alpine skier or you're a professional golfer or you're an educator at a high school, it doesn't matter. You will have days and you will have moments where you are, without a doubt, not your best.
• 14:40
  Yep. You're stressed. You're frustrated. You're tired. You can sleep. Last night you got little kids, you know, you might have an internet home and kept you up, and you and your wife are trying to do like, there's so many things that can happen. Yeah. And as a result of that, you're not at your best. And there are some people, many people actually, who really can freak out internally about that and like, oh my gosh, I'm so tired.
• 15:03
  I got two hours sleep last night. How am I ever going to like, do a good job. And so one of the fundamentals is that I really believe in is like fight for what you have. So what does that when what does that language mean to you. Like what does it mean when we try to challenge ourselves to go fight with what we have.
• 15:21
  It's a great question. You know, I take it in the root of what resources do you have available to you, whether that's energy, focus, you know, physical capabilities on a given day. What are those and how are you going to use them to the best of your ability? Because, like you said, you may be a little bit tired.
• 15:43
  One day. You may be dealing with some pain and and some portion of your body that it's either soreness or muscle fatigue. And how do you fight through that? That's what I'm taking away from from your statement there is given your present state, how are you going to show up and perform to the best of your abilities? Yeah.
• 16:02
  Right, exactly. And also there's a piece of this. It's not about you. And so a huge part of it as well is modeling and demonstrating to the key people in your life, whether that be your family or your coworkers, your teammates, that hey, even when I'm not at my best, you can count on me to show up and fight with what I have.
• 16:23
  Yeah. And maybe it isn't going to be an A-plus result today. That's life. No one over the course of 365 days in a year is only going to put a pluses on the scoreboard. Not going to happen. But psychologically if I can get in that mode of fight with what I have, that can be the difference between me turning in a B-plus versus a C minus.
• 16:46
  Yeah, a C minus can be really costly to myself, my family, my team, my company, whatever it is. Yeah. B plus, is it the ideal performance where we're hoping for? No it's not. Yeah. But, you know, we can get a lot done there. Sometimes it's a difference between staying in position versus no longer being in position. Right. And sometimes turning in that B plus.
• 17:08
  But modeling and providing that example to your family is better than the A-plus. Yeah. Because they can look at you and be like, gosh, I know for a fact that mom or dad or whoever it is didn't really have their best today. And look what they still did. That's meant to me. That's really encouraging. So it's a there's a lot to be said about how that can help us.
• 17:31
  Yeah I couldn't agree more. And it applies to so many scenarios even with, you know the, the one we're speaking on today with Lindsey Vonn. Yeah. Her mentality I'd be so curious what she was thinking leading up to competing and I highly doubt she was focused on not having her ACL. Yeah. Yeah. I doubt that was her focus.
• 17:55
  I think it was more of what you're talking about. What do I have? What adjustments can I make? What line choice can I make to, you know, perform however it looks like with this injury at play. Yeah. I get to be in the Olympics. Yeah. To say that I was mountain and go for it. And, you know, it's certainly unfortunate that she broke her leg and all that, but that all healed.
• 18:21
  And she'll be fine and she'll have a really powerful example of grit and determination. Right. On on on. Yeah. A great example of how sometimes grit and determination doesn't always result in winning or the outcome desired, but it's still grit nonetheless. Yeah, that's a great point too, because I think we can we can be very guilty of when talking about these like great stories of grit.
• 18:47
  And we only dial up those ones where there was this big triumph at the end. There's not always triumph on the other end of grit. Yeah. It doesn't always work that way.
• 18:56
  Yeah. Okay. So just to kind of close it down as you go. An example. Incredible story of grit. You know, however, the theme here, Gabby is not unique at all to Lindsey Vonn.
• 19:08
  Obviously, you know, talking about sports and high level athletes. All of these folks have been injured. And some of them have been injured multiple times. Many of them been injured multiple times. Long term, short term you name it. And so this whole kind of dynamic of athletes dealing with injury. And having to make decisions associated with those.
• 19:30
  This comes up all the time. Yeah. There's a whole sector of, of what we do in sport and performance psychology dedicated to return to play and the psychology of, of injury. It is extremely common that an athlete will get injured at some point in their career, whether it's a short term injury, long term injury, and have to go through the process of returning to play, deciding if they should continue to play through the pain, what we call kind of this, warrior mentality.
• 19:59
  We almost idolize that in sports when we see an athlete, you know, take a hard hit or, you know, get injured to some degree, and then they get back out there on the field and play through it. We're like, wow, you're so tough. You know, and, you know, there's a piece of that that is understandable.
• 20:17
  But at the same time, at what point are we, glorifying injury to to a point that becomes harmful? I've seen this so many times over the years in football. And here's the example that pops up so often. You know, anytime it does I feel so burdensome for these kids because it's such a real deal and it's so hard.
• 20:40
  So here's here's an example I hear I've heard so many times of the is so you've got a player with a legitimate injury of some type okay. Not the kind of injury where you're like completely on the shelf, but like something is clearly wrong here. And one of the question so you know I've done a lot of work in Georgia which our listeners are familiar with.
• 20:58
  And many of our players are aspiring to play in the NFL. Yeah, really they all are. Common questions that general managers and scouts will ask our staff about. Player is, to what degree we play through pain, to what degree we push their pain. So they want to know that. Yeah. And our program and I think this is the right way to do it.
• 21:23
  We don't lie for players and whatever he did what during his time there was just a fact finding mission like we're I tell him. Well here's where how it affects the player. The player knows they know that too of like they want their coaches to be able to call you know their ability to push their pain right.
• 21:39
  Well here's what they're afraid of. Bad film. And when you make the decision to potentially go play in a game, although you don't have, you know, your best, you're not fully healthy. Are you more likely to put bad plays and things on tape that aren't necessarily consistent with your capability? Yes. And guess what. You don't get to do.
• 22:02
  Put a footnote at the bottom. But by the way, I was playing on a sprained ankle. Right. Or by the way, I was playing with a contusion on my quad. That that doesn't work. That way. Right. And so these players are like what do I do. I want to be able to push through pain not just for my future but for my team.
• 22:21
  Like we create a culture where like you want to do your best and do your part and but you also know how costly some of these things can be. Yeah. For your tape and for your team. Right. Because if like what do I do when I'm playing defense. And the offense runs a play with an outside zone and the running backs like trying to get to the edge.
• 22:42
  And my job is to get to the edge. And I don't get there because I was trying to play through pain. And he bust a 60 yard run. Yeah. So I saw that in the season. Yeah. It well and fortunately it brings up this dichotomy though of, of autonomy and, protection that we experience as individuals when we're trying to make a decision or as athletes, but also those around us play a role in it.
• 23:08
  So, you know, to what degree do I choose whether or not I'm going to step out on that field and and compete today? What a to what degree do I choose my level of readiness, versus protection. So my coach, for example, if they see that I'm injured and they're, they're like, you know, you're taking a seat, but maybe there's a scout here to see me today.
• 23:29
  And I'm, like, determined to be out there and make an impression. You know, there's so many factors that go into this. And I think that that's something that, you know, requires a lot of attention to detail is, you know, how are you feeling versus how do others, view your injury? And that comes from the athletic training staff that comes from the medical professionals and your coaches and so many other perspective that are important in making that decision as to whether or not you should be out there.
• 24:02
  You're hitting on what I think is the precise way you have to go about it and support systems. Because let's let's put the piece together here. When you have an athlete who is injured in some way, shape or form, what's that going to equate to heightened stress. When stress goes up when cortisol levels in our brain increase.
• 24:21
  What is one of the common things that begins to become compromised. Decision making. Yeah. So I've got an injured athlete. Heightened stress at least somewhat compromised decision making. It is almost impossible to navigate that well on your own. Yeah. Don't be on an island. Don't be in the vacuum. You've got to access and, you know, support systems who can help.
• 24:44
  As you said, bring some perspective to the discussion and help you see some things. You are seeing. Hope you realize some things you are realizing. Yeah. It ultimately is still going to be your decision. Yeah. But you got to go source some help. Exactly. And if you don't, you run the risk of making a bad decision. Yeah. Let's talk about some of the other factors that maybe get in the way of decision making.
• 25:05
  And, deciding whether or not to take it out there and, play when you're injured. And the media is a big factor here. And we briefly mentioned it earlier, but I think it's, again, this massive piece that influence this decision when it comes to return from injury. Again, that kind of mentality of fight through the pain.
• 25:28
  And we praise athletes who who do that. So there is this message being sent. Yeah. Everybody loves the story. Yeah. And the media, they especially do their job. Yeah. It's their job to go. Right. And, curate them and, dial up different, messages and storylines that people pay attention to. Yeah. And, no better one in the Olympics than this one so far.
• 26:01
  Exactly right. I mean, this has been the story of the Olympics, although we're just a few days. Yeah. But, yeah, the media pressure, because let's be honest about ourselves. Human nature. Who doesn't want to be the primary subject of the Olympics, right. At least on the American side. Who doesn't want to do that? It's whether we are willing to stand up and raise our hand and say, yeah, I do.
• 26:23
  Or not. That's how we're wired. And so then you're trying to reconcile the way that, that kind of appeals to your psyche and your ego and all of that. Yeah. I don't just mean ego an unhealthy way. It just mean the fact that, like, there's something about us that we we like to be in the limelight.
• 26:40
  Yeah. And you're trying to reconcile that with the realities of, like, I can just look down at my knee in, you know, there's just so much coming into, so many competing demands there.
• 26:53
  And so you've got media, and then as you said, but what if the long term. Is different. Right. What. So what if the, the media angle would suggest you do this and then the long term would say you do that. Yeah. What you do.
• 27:13
  Yeah. You struggle. Yeah. You you experience an internal conflict of what do you do now? Do you, you know, make the masses happy because you're doing what they would want you to do or do you know, or do you do what you know needs to happen in order for your long term sustained health or the longevity of your career, potentially.
• 27:35
  And I think that that's something I've seen as well, if I take the break now, if I get the surgery now, then I have the potential to come back and come back stronger versus the mentality of, well, that's my last season anyways. I'm just going to play through it and get the surgery after. Yeah. I mean, that's one example right there.
• 27:57
  Yeah. And I think they're all different. They're all unique. And you know you've got at the end of the day you've got to decide who your small circle of trust of people are going to be. You got to lean on them and access them, have open dialog with them and make a decision. Exactly.
• 28:14
  yeah this one final thing I'll say on this point not to minimize anyone's career in the least, but these we gotta keep in mind here.
• 28:26
  These are not decisions that are being made that are true, like life versus death decisions. Right. We're not talking about military operations here who are going behind enemy lines to defend our country or protect us. It's not what this is. Is it important? Absolutely. It's important. But we got to be able to take a step back and keep things in perspective and recognize like you know what.
• 28:47
  Either way I've got people out there that love me. Respect me. They value me who are going to be in my corner whether I have ten medals or zero. And I'm grateful for that. And I'm not going to forget that.
• 29:00
  I think now is a great time to shift into. So you know, for the rest of us who aren't Olympic athletes, what do we take from this?
• 29:07
  Right. You you know, neither of us are Olympic athletes by any means. But for the rest of the majority of us, you know, we're not Olympic athletes. You know. Yeah. What do we learn from this? What can we take away from these experiences? Of of decision making, of preparation. You know, things not going necessarily the way you planned for them to and still finding a way to show up.
• 29:37
  Yeah. Gosh, there's so many parallels to how us normal people. Because we're not only that. Yeah. And I never was, although I thought I wanted to. Yeah.
• 29:52
  So there's so many parallels, and I think I'll, I'll, I'll for this example, Gabby and we've talked about this, prior to episodes of The Growth Project, but this is a great example of, the you trifecta, which you've heard us talking about before.
• 30:07
  What do we do as humans when things in life pop up unexpectedly that are, just that unexpected, undesirable? And uncontrollable. Yeah. So you didn't see it coming? Yeah. It's bad news. Not good news. And you can't just snap your fingers and fix it. Yeah. Then what. Like what. What do you do. And I think what would ultimately is true here is certain attributes in ways about us come to the surface and say a lot about who we are.
• 30:42
  And those present a great opportunity to become kind of formative events in our life that say things not just about us, but also for safety. He's not not just about us, but also communicate to others the things that we think are important.
• 30:57
  Yeah. It's how you're it really will be moments like that that display your values in action.
• 31:02
  100%. And they tend to be hard. Wasn't easy ones. Yeah. Really kind of tap those things in the most meaningful ways. So what would you say. Like what's what's the big takeaway for you from this example that you think has good application and generalizability to, the rest of us? Yeah. I think, you know, the biggest takeaway for me is related to preparation and, and how,
• 31:28
  you
• 31:29
  know, in Lindsey Vonn's case, she spent years preparing.
• 31:33
  And that doesn't guarantee success. It doesn't guarantee safety. But at the end of the day, you know, it it allows you to make a decision that you have faith in.
• 31:45
  And that's really all you can ask for is, you know, when you're dealing with these things that are unexpected and, you know, undesirable and uncontrollable. Being able to know that you prepared to the best of your abilities and, are going to show up the best you can is the takeaway from my perspective.
• 32:05
  You know, the preparation. And honestly, that's that's what makes these decisions for these. Okay. Yeah. So difficult because of what that preparation has entailed. And the sacrifices that have been made over the course of the long haul. You know, it's, you know, unlike most professional sports that have multiple like you know, we just had the Super Bowl last night.
• 32:26
  Right. And they get to play 17 regular season games plus the play. Like you get chances. Yeah. Not in the Olympics. No. And there's nothing else like it for these Olympic sports people where although there are other kind of professional events that occurs in the course of a year, they're just not nowhere near the same level. Yeah. Of meaning and magnitude and scope.
• 32:47
  So you just have like you don't get a chance ever, you know. Yeah. Or 70 times a year or anything like that. Right. So much goes into the. It does. And it's so emotionally demanding. Yeah. Okay, so, I know we need to wrap up. Who knows what else? What else this Olympic is going to offer us? Yeah, we've already had a pretty profound example that I think relates to a lot of what we do.
• 33:11
  Yeah, it's been a exciting start to the Winter Olympics, and hopefully we'll have some more exciting moments. But hopefully they'll be a little bit more positive moments to talk about. Yeah, we can be talking about a story like this with all of the different endings. Yeah. All right. Well, yeah. Just as we kind of wrap up.
• 33:33
  Thank you as always for joining us. And if you haven't yet cut your TV on check out the Olympics. Really recommend that you do so. Again there's just I think so many psychological principles on full display that apply to to all of us in our lives, regardless of what we do, where we are. So thank you for tuning in and we will look forward to our next conversation here real soon.
• 33:55
  Take care.