Latest / The Photography & Video Show Podcast / 8: Urban landscapes with Ben Moore, 2024 predictions and 2023 review with Gavin Hoey

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8: Urban landscapes with Ben Moore, 2024 predictions and 2023 review with Gavin Hoey · The Photography & Video Show Podcast

• 0:10
  David McClelland: Hello and welcome to the Photography and Video Show podcast for January 2024.
• 0:20
  David McClelland: I'm your host, David McClellan, and this month we speak with urban architecture photographer Ben Moore about his work and his hustle.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta be relentless in this game.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's scary, you know, because everyone's doing it, so it's like where do you go?
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: What do you not sleep?
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: I used to have meetings with myself about what I'm doing and be like, Ben, like if you're really serious, you need to get up early.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: You need to get off your ass and do something about it because no one's there to do it for you.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: You have a day off and relax, everything is just where you left it.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, your website's still the way it is, so there's no new pictures to edit.
• 1:00
  David McClelland: Also on this month's show, we take a look back at 2023's photography and video highlights and mark your card for what to expect in 2024.
• 1:11
  David McClelland: And we have details of a competition to win a Canon EOS R6 Mark II bundle worth more than£3,000.
• 1:19
  David McClelland: More on that later.
• 1:23
  David McClelland: Joining us is photographer, writer, trainer, adorama, presenter, and content creator, and for anybody who knows him or Ram Legend, it's Gavin Howie.
• 1:32
  David McClelland: Hello Gavin, thanks for joining us.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Hiya, David, thank you very much for having me.
• 1:36
  David McClelland: For anyone who hasn't come across your work on the internet and indeed in person as well, which is where I first met you, just give us the Gavin Howie 101.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: Well, where do you want to start?
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, my photography is what most people know me for, and probably why you're listening to the podcast.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: And that goes back way back into the 80s where I was darkroom developing and printing.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but most people, I guess, know me through the more modern medium of digital, where I was a kind of an early adopter of digital technology, and I kind of got into the training and teaching of that because I needed to share what I was enjoying so much.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I did the Paint Shop Pro.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: Anyone remember Paint Shop Pro?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: PSP, yes, I do.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: That is going back a long time now.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was me.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: I was writing Paint Shop Pro articles for Digital Photo Magazine at the turn of the century.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: Seems a long time ago now, doesn't it?
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then I got into a little bit of uh um a program or at least a website called uh YouTube.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 2:36
  David McClelland: I think so.
• 2:36
  David McClelland: I think I may have stumbled on it from time to time.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, look it up, it's gonna be big.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then I I was in YouTube very early, about 17 years ago, I started uploading videos to YouTube, and then that's grown and grown and grown, and that's pretty much what I do now.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: I create content for my own channel, for other people's channels.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm in front of the camera, I'm behind the camera, but the overriding theme is always photography.
• 2:58
  David McClelland: Yeah, and I think where you and I first crossed paths may have been not only in the early days of the photography show, going back to 2014 when the first show was, um, but Adobe, Adobe Creative Week, um maybe 2012 or some of the creative days 2013 when Creative Cloud first launched.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, David, you've got a really good memory, haven't you?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: This is this is bizarre.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, was it 2012?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: It was.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: So 2011, I won a competition with Adobe to become a Photoshop evangelist.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: And um I I kind of got in through the back door of of of that to working with Adobe in the UK.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: So 2012, yeah, it would have been.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: I was doing a lot of stuff with them when the uh Creative Cloud.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: That was Photoshop CS5, by the way.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: So pre-Creative Cloud.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I think you're right.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think it must have been 2012.
• 3:51
  David McClelland: I can tell you categorically why it was 2012, because I was hosting the daily livestream show that we had from a studio uh on the South Bank near to London Bridge, the Moore London Estate.
• 4:03
  David McClelland: And the studio that we had overlooked Tower Bridge on the River Thames, and suspended from the top of Tower Bridge were the Olympic rings because it was London 2012 that summer, and here we are, 12 years later, looking forward to more Olympic rings in Paris 2024.
• 4:22
  David McClelland: So, yeah, 12 years ago it was how time flies when we're having fun.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's the key to success, isn't it?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: If you're if you're enjoying what you're doing, it's not really work.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I've I just love doing what I do.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's so much fun.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't worked a day since I stopped having a proper job and and did this.
• 4:45
  David McClelland: The Christmas decorations are being packed away.
• 4:48
  David McClelland: The New Year's hangovers are well just about gone.
• 4:52
  David McClelland: 2023 is finally done and dusted.
• 4:55
  David McClelland: Now I know some people will say good riddance, but from an imaging perspective, I think 2023 has been a really, really strong news year.
• 5:04
  David McClelland: We saw lots of launches.
• 5:05
  David McClelland: The Nikon Z8 and ZF, the Sony A93 with its global shutter that we talked about last month, uh, Panasomic Lumix S52, S52X, Canon R8 R50, and the really interesting RF Mount 24 to 105 F2.8 lens.
• 5:23
  David McClelland: Lots more besides some amazing stuff there, much of which we've covered and have even been hands-on with here on the podcast with our various guests.
• 5:32
  David McClelland: And then in 2023, this is kind of turning into a review of 2023, and I'm very happy with that.
• 5:38
  David McClelland: The headline from the software side of things has to be the impact that AI has had on the industry from DALI and Midjourney to Adobe, Firefly and Generative Phil in Photoshop to that image in the Sony World Photography Awards.
• 5:53
  David McClelland: And again, we've tried to speak as much as we can here on the podcast to people who are right in the thick of those stories.
• 6:01
  David McClelland: So before we begin to look ahead to 2024 and what might be making the headlines this year, Gavin, do you have any personal imaging highlights from the last 12 months that you would like to share here on the show?
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you really covered everything completely there.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: That was good.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: That was a good one.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much indeed.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, I mean, from my point of view, so as a photographer stroke videographer, uh the changes that I'm seeing are perhaps a little bit more subtle rather than specific bits of kit.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I'm starting to see crossover in how we light, certainly from a point of view of photography.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a portrait photographer, and obviously from video, we need lighting, and LED lighting is starting to span that gap.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: So that's been a really interesting thing to notice over the last 12 months.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: How the traditional uh flash technology that we've used is still there, it's still amazing, but more and more photographers are seeing the advantage of continuous light.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: So that for me has been quite an eye-opener because I'm dyed in the wool.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: I've been using flash for a very long time, let's put it that way and leave it there.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: And trying to suddenly move yourself quickly from one thing to another is not a comfortable thing to do.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm slowly aging myself towards a little bit of continuous light and a lot of flash, and what I'm finding is the continuous LED world can do things that Flash can't, and I think that's perhaps where I'm going, and perhaps, although we're not talking about the future, I think that's where we're headed as well.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: Try and find not necessarily something that replaces what you know, but something that can work with it and enhance what you do.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: So lighting for me has started to shift over the last 12 months.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's been really interesting.
• 7:47
  David McClelland: Yeah, and I I've moved over to a lot more LED light um in in my studio here as well, compared to I mean, goodness knows what energy gobbling stuff I was using in the past, for sure.
• 7:58
  David McClelland: But I wonder if part of this move, um well, you tell me as someone who maybe started much more in the photography side of the camp, and then as the reality of the world and working as a creative professional means that video becomes more and more part of that.
• 8:15
  David McClelland: Actually, having that continuous light availability, good quality, continuous light, that is crucial to being able to capture good quality video.
• 8:24
  David McClelland: So is it a case of the journey from purely stills to being a hybrid shooter?
• 8:30
  David McClelland: That that necessitates more of the quality continuous light rather than just having the flash.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it is.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: So um it's really important that if you're going to be doing both stills and video, that you can seamlessly move between the two.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that comes down to social media, trying to create content for social media that looks like your photos, and you're also trying to make a little video clip with it.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: If you're using LED, it's absolutely a breeze because what you see is more or less what you got.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: But then there's been another shift as well, which kind of takes us into your other part of things with AI, because traditionally one of the things that stopped me from using LED lights is the fact that I have to go and get my ISO on the camera and really bump it up to get the same kind of shutter speed as I would expect from Flash.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: But that sort of changed sometime last year.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: So it's still the same, you still have to bump up your ISO.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I use a micro four-thirds camera, so going up to an ISO of 3,200 for me is is scary.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: I get really kind of like, whoa, we're at the top of a very tall mountain and I feel quite uncomfortable.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: And normally I would avoid that at all costs.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: But then sometime last year, Adobe did something that just totally changed how I take my photos.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: So within their camera raw, within Lightroom, within Photoshop, they bought out an AI-generated noise reduction technique.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: And it is utterly game-changing.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I was on I was on the beta, but they had a like a pre-release that everybody could download.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not big on pre-releases.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: I've done I've done beta stuff for Adobe for quite a few years.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: I stopped doing that because I couldn't remember what was official and what was actually secret, so I kind of came off that.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I didn't really want to try it, but I thought I'd give it a whirl.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I put a picture in, I think it was 6,400 ISO, which is something I actually had to go and specifically take a photo to test it.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: I put it through the noise reduction and it was like I'd taken it at ISO 100.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: It was clean, it was sharp.
• 10:38
  David McClelland: So you still keep the sharpness there, even having gone through this denoising process?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's astonishing, yeah.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: Because normally with denoising, you're basically just smudging it and smashing it and crushing everything out, and you can tell it's been noise reduction applied.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: This is different.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: This is really if you haven't tried it, go do it.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: Go take your worst photo, run it through the noise reduction.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's a weird one because I think it must do something on the cloud.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: It uploads it, it takes um 30 seconds or so, and you look at it and you think, well, that's exactly as it was before.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: This is absolutely terrible.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then it sort of goes click, and then suddenly you've got a brand new, beautifully clean photo.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: I can't I can't explain how much of a change that's made.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: So what that allowed me to do was to say, okay, well, I know I've got to use the higher ISO for my um continuous LED lighting, but I don't have to worry about that.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's a slightly longer processing, but the end result is clean, unbelievably clean.
• 11:43
  David McClelland: That's the still imaging piece sorted then.
• 11:46
  David McClelland: But what about with regards to video?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so there we go.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's what we should be talking about, about what's coming in uh 2024.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's what I want.
• 11:55
  David McClelland: In which case, let's just go straight to the future at this point there, if you're champing at the bit to talk about it.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so yeah, AI has really uh changed a few things that I actually do, and it's only gonna get bigger.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I I get the feeling that if you ignore AI, if you say, I don't want to know about it, I don't like it, I want it to go away, you're gonna get left behind.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: So the thing, the secret, the art of making new technology work is to understand what it can do, understand what you need it to do, and then try and find uh a sort of middle ground.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: Just because it can do something, you don't have to use it for that.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: So for video, yeah, I want it to denoise my high ISO video stuff as well.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's less of a problem with video and high ISO because the the pitch is constantly changing, unlike stills.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: But nonetheless, I've seen what it does with stills.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: Come on, come on, Adobe, you can do it.
• 12:48
  David McClelland: So what are the limitations with LED?
• 12:51
  David McClelland: What do you feel you aren't yet necessarily able to do with the constant LED lights that are available right now?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's uh an ever-closing gap, that's for sure, but there is definitely still a gap.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: And it's really anything that involves movement and motion.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: Where you want to freeze the action.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: So with flash, it has a natural tendency to be a freezing medium.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's a flash duration of fractions of a second.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's really, really good at freezing action.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: Where with continuous, to do that, you need unbelievably bright lights to the point of really making it uncomfortable for anybody sat in front of the lights.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: So that's that's perhaps where the LED is currently a little bit failing.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: Now there is a solution to that, which is to have a hybrid, to have an LED that can flash for a moment of a second.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: So you can do that already.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Rotolite have been doing that for years, and other brands have that as an option.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: But to have it to the same point that a flash can do it is perhaps a couple of years down the line.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: But um, yeah, so that's where LEDs fall down at the moment.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Freezing action is their Achilles heel.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: But they've got a load of other advantages.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, honestly, RGB and the various versions of that, it's just wonderful.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: You want a red light, you want to match some brand's colour, you can just do it at a press of a button.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you want a tube light?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you can have tube lights.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: Love tube lights.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: Tube lights have been wonderful.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: I I got a couple of tube lights in the middle of last year, and I thought these are really gimmicky.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: I've used them so much.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: I love them.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely brilliant.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: If you haven't experienced some some lights, then come along to the show because it'll be a wash with LEDs, I'm sure.
• 14:39
  David McClelland: A wash with LEDs.
• 14:40
  David McClelland: Again, we'll talk to you about what you'll be doing at the photography show in a moment.
• 14:44
  David McClelland: I agree with you in as much as looking back on 2023, as much as we name-checked a lot of the big camera launches, kit launches this year, the headline really has been around AI imaging.
• 14:56
  David McClelland: It's edgy, it's interesting, it's it's worrying, it's existential, but it certainly is not going anywhere right now.
• 15:04
  David McClelland: And even a few days ago, one of the big players that many people have heard of, Midjourney, it opened the uh the early access doors, the alpha doors on version six, which brings with it text.
• 15:16
  David McClelland: You can actually uh insert your the the text that you want.
• 15:20
  David McClelland: It's no longer a generative AI mix of what could, if you're squinting, become letters and numbers in there.
• 15:26
  David McClelland: You can insert actual text into your images, a lot more detail in there.
• 15:30
  David McClelland: Um DALI, DALI 3, of course, came out in September and October.
• 15:34
  David McClelland: And then we've seen Photoshop with its generative fill, generative um is it generative expand?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: So it's generative expand uh and generative fill.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um basically the same technology, you just tick a box or you type in some words.
• 15:47
  David McClelland: All of this stuff that we've seen really come to prominence this year.
• 15:51
  David McClelland: It's been really exciting.
• 15:52
  David McClelland: Like I say, it ain't going anywhere.
• 15:54
  David McClelland: That was 2023.
• 15:56
  David McClelland: 2024, well, it's an Olympic year in Paris.
• 16:01
  David McClelland: In Germany, it's the men's Euros football tournament.
• 16:04
  David McClelland: And whether you're into sport or not, those two events alone mean that 2024 is gonna be a bumpy year for imaging technology.
• 16:11
  David McClelland: History teaches us to expect lots of kit launches.
• 16:16
  David McClelland: I'll I've I've got a few that we might be expecting this year, but thanks to AI, we can expect lots of imaging capability enhancements there as well.
• 16:27
  David McClelland: It's kind of difficult for us to know really where it is gonna go next, Gavin, because we have seen it come on leaps and bounds with, say, generative fill, generative expand, DALI, mid-journey, and all the rest of those over the last 12, maybe let's say 18 months if we're being generous, but it's just come on so far.
• 16:44
  David McClelland: Um Who knows what to expect in the next in the next 12 months?
• 16:48
  David McClelland: I it's a brave man who really wants to pin their colours to the mast when it comes to the AI part of the of the 2024 predictions.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, as none of us actually saw what was gonna happen coming down the road until it had arrived, trying to guess what is even further down the road will probably be wrong.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: But there are a few things I think that we can expect to see.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: I think that future camera developments are gonna include some form of AI.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: But if it's if I was a sports photographer, and I I'm not, I enjoy watching, but that's about it.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: I would definitely think that some kind of auto-culling of your pictures with AI has definitely got to be the thing.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: So you're you're sat on the sideline, you are blasting away with your your camera taking dozens of pictures per second, as we can do now.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: We've already have the ability to select in-focus and out-of-focus pictures, and our phones can do the ones where, hey, people blinked and people didn't blink.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: So that kind of technology, if you're a sports photographer, that it only sends the the the best of the bunch.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: Rather than sending a ton of images that someone's got to sort through at the other end, has to be really good.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I did the Olympics in 2012 in London.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: Oh really?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was um backstage.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: I was in the the photographers area.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: I was I was there courtesy of Adobe.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: So they asked me to go along and see if anybody needed any help with Photoshop at the Olympics.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, and nobody did because nobody wanted to reposition people or clone out things.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: It was uh it was a fairly pointless experience.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: But I got to watch how the photographers worked, and they were sat there at computers with thousands of near-identical images, just trying to pick out the best ones.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's where AI has got to come in, isn't it?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's gotta be able to do what we do, but better.
• 18:38
  David McClelland: Talking of 2023 highlights, back in our July edition of the podcast, we spoke with Hannah Rook, who is Digital Camera World's AI correspondent.
• 18:48
  David McClelland: And there was a tool that she mentioned then.
• 18:50
  David McClelland: We had we had a good old chat about AI in that episode, and also interviewed Boris Eldixon as well, who won the Sony World Photography Award.
• 18:57
  David McClelland: The tool that she spoke about was Aftershoot AI, uh, helping photographers to cull smarter, not harder.
• 19:05
  David McClelland: And I remember she reported that it actually did a pretty good job of doing some of that culling for you.
• 19:11
  David McClelland: But to your point, if some of that can take place in camera rather than having to transfer it, which isn't always the fastest process as well, we know, particularly with with larger images, uh, onto a onto a device, then that would be even more of a time saver for photographers.
• 19:26
  David McClelland: Speaking of in-camera, though, a report from Nikkei uh this week uh it tells us that Japanese camera manufacturers Nick on Sony Canon, who together make up I think 90% of the camera market or something like that.
• 19:40
  David McClelland: But they're all working together to develop and deploy technology and standards to digitally sign images captured by their cameras.
• 19:49
  David McClelland: And uh those images, once signed in camera, will contain immutable.
• 19:54
  David McClelland: You can't change these without leaving a mark behind.
• 19:56
  David McClelland: Details such as location, date, photographer, all that sort of stuff that can be checked as part of a workflow.
• 20:03
  David McClelland: And I understand from reading uh this article and and a few others as well that some of the ingest workflows will automatically check these images as they're being filed to a desk to um prove their authenticity or or otherwise.
• 20:18
  David McClelland: Or there's a verify tool that uh enables people to manually verify these images.
• 20:24
  David McClelland: Manufacturers have already been testing these capabilities with news outlets like uh Associated Press, my old employer Thompson Reuters back in the day.
• 20:33
  David McClelland: Uh we've already covered on the show how Leica has been integrating this kind of stuff into its cameras, and this stuff I think is really, really important.
• 20:43
  David McClelland: And you know, we can talk about AI in the camera and what that enables us to do, but 2024 is gonna be a huge year.
• 20:52
  David McClelland: I'm gonna get all serious here, Gavin.
• 20:53
  David McClelland: I apologise.
• 20:54
  David McClelland: A huge year for elections, for for democratic elections, and one estimate could be that half of the world's population is going to be in democratic votes during 2024.
• 21:05
  David McClelland: We know about uh about the US, for example, here in the UK, it's very likely as well.
• 21:10
  David McClelland: Uh, India.
• 21:12
  David McClelland: So, yeah, there's there's a lot of voting that takes place, and that means that the potential impact of misinformation on an already, let's face it, pretty fragile sense of global stability, it could be absolutely huge.
• 21:25
  David McClelland: So, actually being able to have a platform that enables us to trust that what we are seeing is the truth and not fake news uh is really important.
• 21:37
  David McClelland: And moves like these from Nikon Sony Cannon, also from Leica and others as well, I think are all to be applauded.
• 21:44
  David McClelland: I've got three worries about these.
• 21:47
  David McClelland: First of all, that we end up with multiple standards and it all gets very, very complicated.
• 21:52
  David McClelland: There's the uh XK C D cartoon about oh, we've got seven standards for this thing.
• 21:57
  David McClelland: Let's develop a global standard so that we are only following one standard.
• 22:00
  David McClelland: Standard.
• 22:00
  David McClelland: The result?
• 22:01
  David McClelland: Eight standards.
• 22:02
  David McClelland: Um, that that's a very realistic outcome.
• 22:05
  David McClelland: Uh B that these capabilities get rolled out to cameras too slowly.
• 22:09
  David McClelland: This stuff's happening right now.
• 22:11
  David McClelland: We need these capabilities in in cameras right now, but that's just not how technology works, unfortunately.
• 22:18
  David McClelland: But more fundamentally for me, it's that media outlets have got less and less influence these days.
• 22:24
  David McClelland: And it's what gets shared on social media that really matters.
• 22:29
  David McClelland: And are the social media platforms, are they able, are they willing to screen videos, photos, other things that are being uploaded for authenticity?
• 22:40
  David McClelland: Is it in their interests to do so?
• 22:43
  David McClelland: You could argue not.
• 22:46
  David McClelland: So all of these all of these moves by photojournalists and media outlets, I think, are great to try and tackle misinformation, to try and tackle fake news when it pertains to fake video, to fake images.
• 22:58
  David McClelland: But frankly, I think that the world has changed, and we get our news from social media, and I don't think they care a fraction as much.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's quite sad that we can't necessarily rely on everything we see, but that's social media for you.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: Social media is very much not reliable.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: My daughter has a great thing.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: She she loves her social media.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: She's sort of a younger generation, and that's where she gets her information from.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: And she says, if you really want to find something out, there's an outlet that will tell you what you want to hear out there somewhere.
• 23:30
  David McClelland: Yes.
• 23:31
  David McClelland: Just as we round off our 2024 predictions, let's talk about kit safer ground.
• 23:37
  David McClelland: I guess, as we say, it's an Olympic year, it's a football year.
• 23:41
  David McClelland: So the Canon EOS R1, uh the flagship camera for the Olympics, uh, Canon, I understand, has already said, yeah, we're we're making this, but obviously being a little bit coy as to when it's being released, it'll be this year.
• 23:56
  David McClelland: I think we're all pretty sure of that.
• 23:57
  David McClelland: Exactly, exactly how far in advance of the Olympics, we don't really know.
• 24:02
  David McClelland: It could be very soon indeed.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: Let's say But then sometimes they've also had things that they've only released at the Olympics.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: So they've had almost tested on-site camera equipment, not necessarily canon, but um they have been known to do that.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: They have been known to try pre-release kit at real sporting events.
• 24:23
  David McClelland: I mean that's brave.
• 24:24
  David McClelland: It is it is pretty brave.
• 24:26
  David McClelland: Um well, let's see how that one plays out.
• 24:28
  David McClelland: But certainly in terms of what it will have in it, why would people want to test potentially pre-release kit at a at an event with global significance such as the Olympics?
• 24:38
  David McClelland: Well, James Arteus from Digital Camera World says that rumors suggest it could have everything anything from an 85 megapixel global shutter sensor to 1.6 million ISO sensitivity to nine stops of in-camera stabilization?
• 24:53
  David McClelland: It sounds like a an AI-generated wish list, if you ask me.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: But 1.6 million ISO.
• 24:59
  David McClelland: Did I hear you write it?
• 25:00
  David McClelland: Uh yes, you you heard me write.
• 25:02
  David McClelland: 1.6 million.
• 25:03
  David McClelland: I will I will double check my source on that.
• 25:05
  David McClelland: Are they lighting the Olympics with a candle?
• 25:09
  David McClelland: As I read that, I did think, why would you really, why would you need that?
• 25:14
  David McClelland: You know, surely if this event is being televised, then you wouldn't necessarily I can't imagine a scenario where you would need 1.6 million ISO sensitivity.
• 25:24
  David McClelland: However, having just checked my source, yes, that is what James has written in his article here on DCW.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: I did ice hockey photography, and it was I won't say the place because I don't want to get in them into trouble.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: It was a few years ago, let's put it that way.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: And one end of the ice hockey was beautifully lit with overhead light, it was nice and bright, and the other end had almost no lights whatsoever.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a point where definitely 1.6 million ISO would have been good, because you needed a shutter speed that was unbelievably fast, uh, in light that one end was um was way too bright and the other end was almost in total darkness.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I got a black eye from that event.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: That was a fun experience.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: Top tip if anyone's ever watching and they photograph ice hockey, don't put your lens against the perspective, because when they crash into it, it moves straight back into your face.
• 26:10
  David McClelland: Good grief.
• 26:11
  David McClelland: Yeah.
• 26:11
  David McClelland: One day.
• 26:12
  David McClelland: Uh Nikon may release a high-speed version of the Z9 again, another flagship camera dubbed the Z9H, possibly with a global shutter just like the A93 from Sony.
• 26:26
  David McClelland: So, well, I mean, look, who knows?
• 26:28
  David McClelland: Who knows?
• 26:29
  David McClelland: I think you can say it's going to be the year of speed.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: The year of speed.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, well, yes.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: Everything's going to be fast, everything is going to be action-oriented.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and yeah, I think that probably does come down to the sporting events that are in the diary.
• 26:43
  David McClelland: I think that's a good summary of what we're expecting 2024 to be.
• 26:48
  David McClelland: Uh, Gavin, we'll leave it there for just a moment.
• 26:51
  David McClelland: Time now to head over to this month's feature interview with Ben Moore.
• 27:01
  David McClelland: Ben Moore is a self-taught urban landscape photographer with a growing body of aerial work.
• 27:07
  David McClelland: He sees cities in ways that most people miss, celebrating the architecture of the street from angles that seemingly defy gravity.
• 27:16
  David McClelland: From humble beginnings just over a decade ago, Ben is now in demand around the world from some of the biggest global brands.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I tried to make things look cool in my eyes.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what that means to anyone, that that can mean anything, I'm supposed, but as my creative eye, I see I'll see something in where people just walk by.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: They'll be like, you know, what is he looking at?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: And in my mind, I'm like, yeah, when I get this hole, I'm gonna make this look like something cool that I've seen, the movie or or the game, or and it's that kind of um I think with photographers we have this problem where we can't turn that part of our brain off, no matter where we are.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm always looking, I'm always observing and trying to think how I can change things into something else, and that that will describe my work.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's the whole, it's what's inside my brain, it's what's going on in my brain 24-7, basically.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, as people, we do get drawn to things, we'll get our phones out, take a picture of something when we see something really nice.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you see people do it all the time, they just stop the sunset or grab them.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: But for me, I will take it probably that extra mile.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's the only thing I'm taking it that extra mile where that's the reason I'm there, you know.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm there to get that.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: Not that I was walking by, I plan to get this, I plan to go to that building.
• 28:45
  David McClelland: Landscapes are very much your playground, urban landscapes are an area of work that I'm uh particularly familiar of with your work, but also increasingly nature as well.
• 28:56
  David McClelland: I've seen some incredible aerial work that you've done recently.
• 29:00
  David McClelland: But just coming back to how you apply yourself as an artist to those landscapes, whether urban or whether natural, I recognize a lot of the locations that you shoot in, but I don't always recognise those angles.
• 29:16
  David McClelland: I just don't see them necessarily how you do.
• 29:19
  David McClelland: So tell me, when you go out and shoot, are you one of those photographers who is a meticulous planner?
• 29:26
  David McClelland: Are you virtually recceing the location, seeing how others have shot that space?
• 29:31
  David McClelland: Or for you, is it more about just being in that location, seeing, feeling, being creative, being responsive to what that environment is sharing with you in that moment.
• 29:43
  David McClelland: Which side of the camp do you fall on?
• 29:45
  David McClelland: I was gonna say both sides.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I saw someone's shot on Instagram and I'd be like, wow, there's so many shots.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: In my mind, I'm already seeing a million other shots there.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I've seen what they've done with the location, and I'm already thinking, okay, if I go there, I'm just gonna and then so when I get there, so this is the after the planning and stuff, I am scoping around whatever catches my eye, and and it's even just a hint.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like I know some people, you can be lazy where you see something, you go, yeah, you probably won't look good, so I won't take it, but just take it because something in your mind is telling you to take it, you know, and you've got to listen to that part of your brain, your subconscious is telling you take a shot here.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes I'll take a shot and I thought, oh, this is probably like a C rated shot in my mind, and then I'll go home, I'll do something to her.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: You go, What?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: This has come out better than I thought.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: So you always got to take those shots, those subconscious ones, take them anyway, just do it.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: It costs you nothing, and you you can delete you cannot use it.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's cost you a few seconds of your time.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: But I wish I was that meticulous person, but I'm just I'm just not.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: I go placing sometimes, and I think the best ones are where I've gone to a location with a shot in mind, but the shots that I didn't plan to take are better than the one that I planned to get, you know.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: The ones that the B ones uh, you know, those ones are like, wow, these this is a and it's all just from me seeing and just taking those shots where I have a hint of this could be something, you know.
• 31:20
  David McClelland: Something that I also enjoy about your work uh is how sometimes it's it's the blend of these landscapes, the architecture, but together with a hint, well, actually not so much of a hint, out and out street photography, it's about adding people, it's about bringing the context because these often are built environments where people are walking through every day or or enjoying or looking out of the window and so on.
• 31:48
  David McClelland: Is that also deliberate?
• 31:50
  David McClelland: Do you find that that is an extension of your eye of your approach as a photographer?
• 31:55
  David McClelland: Or do you find that that's a slightly different discipline and you need to have maybe more patience to wait until you've got the right not the right people but but people passing by at the right time, for example?
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's a bit of both where what skin is it to get Cannon Street with loads of people walking around it?
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: Turn to see zero, because it's just people walking now to get one person crossing the road, now you've got to have planned that you've got gone to a certain time, you've got to wait, you gotta put some effort to get that photo, you know, and that's what it's about.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's about putting a bit of effort, a bit of thinking to make your photo stand out from just a photo that anyone could just take any time of the day.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's cool as well.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: How cool is it to get like just one person standing in the middle of nowhere, and then you get this kind of sense of scale of how they're in these vast environments?
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, people do it in the landscape world as well, where you see these shots where they're on these mountains, and there's like one person standing on the peak with like a yellow coat, and you're just like, wow, where is he?
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and it's like, where's Donovan Duncan taking this shot from to get this guy like looking like a speck?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if he had a group of people, wouldn't it be so cool?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because you'd be like, Oh, that just looks like a tourist, but that everyone just goes to.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: Now, it looks like they've gone to somewhere really remote to do this, where you know they will only have that picture, so it's about trying to make a photo stand out from the crowd, and that's what I was always thinking when I was um going out and shooting in photography in the night and doing not exploring.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: I was always thinking, how can I make this photo stand out from the crowd?
• 33:30
  David McClelland: You mentioned exploring there, and you mentioned you know getting getting up early and exploring at night.
• 33:38
  David McClelland: Is is that a key element?
• 33:39
  David McClelland: You mentioned that you you do plan, but also you explore in the moment as well.
• 33:43
  David McClelland: Is explore a good verb for you then then?
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'll say I'll say the night.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: Me and my friends are going at night because it was after work.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: So we would work in the day, we'll meet up and do photography at night, and we'll be exploring the city when it's just like everyone's just doing their shopping or whatever, you know.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it yeah, exploring is huge, like it's massive.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say even when I'm in other countries and I've planned to go to a million locations, I'm always exploring while I'm in that location or seeing what's around, you know, and and it also depends on time, you know.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: You need to have the time to just walk around and you've got stuff to do, you're hungry, you're tired, and it's draining.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of effort that goes into it.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: You need to be really put you need to push yourself, you know, really hard.
• 34:34
  David McClelland: What's been your journey towards professional photography, Ben?
• 34:38
  David McClelland: Because uh I've I've read different interviews you've done, and in a way, you and I come from a a fairly similar background of uh having an IT job that we didn't like, but but feeling this passion.
• 34:50
  David McClelland: I and I can hear and I and I can see the passion as you talk about going out and exploring on these shoes.
• 34:55
  David McClelland: So just talk us through that journey from being in a place kind of pre-professional photography and about how how you took those steps, how you followed that passion, how you recognize that passion was a thing for you in the first place.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I started well, I'll take it all the way back to school where I used to draw.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: I used to be so good at art.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: I used to I used to sell my drawings as a kid to other kids in the school that I used to be really good at copying accurate drawings.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: I used to be so good.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: So that I had this creative side of me that was massive and I didn't know what to do with it.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: So fast forward to I'm working in the IT job, absolutely hated it, really.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: I got another job which I was uh my mother was a teacher, so she got she got me up with like a teaching assistant agency, and they could get me teaching assistant jobs.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: So while I was doing that, my friend had a camera which I bought of him, and I started kind of playing around with that because I didn't have a camera, and I was like, why don't I have a DSMR?
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: He had a Nikon D3000, which I bought of him, and then I started going crazy with this thing.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like I started thinking, how come the shots are so blurry?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't understand what's going on.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I was trying to figure out how to use it, practicing, practicing, and it just became like a thing that I had to figure out.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: I need to know what I'm doing.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: It was challenging that you needed to, yeah, it just set me up on this journey, you know, where I'm like, How do I do this?
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then so my friend, over he called me out, he had a music video, and he was like, Yo, another music video, I need a photographer to come and shoot like behind the scenes.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: Brilliant.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I took like so many photos in this thing.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: It was what the cunning was ridiculous, you know, it was like a thousand photos or some craziness like that.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: I met some model from there, she took me under a wing and I started shooting her for a bit.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then I met a makeup artist.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: She took me to this group where we used to basically photographers, makeup artists, and um models would meet, it was called LSS, and we'd all shoot just for the love of photography, and then give everyone gets the photos, and you can kind of make a portfolio.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: I was doing the school stuff on the side and doing photography, and I'd build up my photography with like birthday parties, wedding, little weddings, stuff on the side to just keep that side alive.
• 37:10
  David McClelland: Were you calling yourself a professional photographer at this point?
• 37:15
  David McClelland: Because that for many people is quite a step.
• 37:18
  David McClelland: You know, there's the whole fake it till you make it thing, but that point at which you go, I'm a professional photographer.
• 37:23
  David McClelland: And yes, I might only be doing this part-time or at weekends or whatever else, but I'm a professional, and it becomes a mindset thing as much as it does a money thing, I guess.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: People called me, I wouldn't say no.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I was if I hit my highs, you know.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: It just felt like I could get money from this, and that would be my dream to do this full-time.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: I was trying to follow a dream, you know.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know, it was it felt like I was, and I would probably call myself that because I had the website, I had a lot of clients that I worked with who were like friends, became friends and stuff like that.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: I started working in the clubs as well.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I was doing I was hustling, you know, I was like doing everything to get money.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: I did school photography, I did it all, and then I think I was doing um I was doing retouching for a school firm, and then I started.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, I've got this idea in my head, it was crazy.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know where it came from.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: I just said I'm gonna get a wide angle lens and I'm gonna go to the night and shoot cool smoke grenades with my friends and everything because you know with architecture, it's like you want to use a wide angle to get a lot of it in.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I started kind of shooting like street arch urban architecture, and it started spawning from there where I've just changed.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: I just said I just felt in my mind I was like, I can't want to shoot with models no more, they take too long to get ready, they cancel.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: I just needed to like focus on me, I just needed to separate it so my photography would only be me having to get there, and that's it.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: Do you understand what I mean?
• 38:53
  David McClelland: The buildings are always there, you know.
• 38:54
  David McClelland: You don't need to book those, they're not gonna clear off at eight o'clock in the evening because they've got another appointment.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's the best feeling in the world, you know.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: You should just get there, shoot, go home, no waiting.
• 39:04
  David McClelland: So, very briefly, let's fast forward to where you're at now.
• 39:07
  David McClelland: Just name check some of the brands that you work with.
• 39:11
  David McClelland: I can see quite a few of them on your Instagram, but just just give us a name check of the level that you're working at now.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm working with BMW, they're really nice.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: Nikon partners with Nikon, so it's amazing, you know.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's one of the my favourite camera brands.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: I've shopped with them since I started, and they fit me, they fit me perfectly like a glove.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when you find a brand that fits you, it's been a staple point of my photography in terms of that the files that I work with when I come out of the camera have just been absolutely amazing, and it loves the way I edit.
• 39:40
  David McClelland: I'm gonna throw another word at you, and you've mentioned it a couple of times already the hustle.
• 39:45
  David McClelland: And when you spoke about your childhood and about doing those drawings at school and and selling those and so on, it seems to me that you were exercising your hustle muscle quite early on.
• 39:58
  David McClelland: Just talk to me about how important for growing the brand, for growing the business that hustle is for you, Ben.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it is forbidable.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta be relentless in this game.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's scary, you know, because everyone's doing it, so it's like, where do you go?
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: What do you not sleep?
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I used to have meetings with myself, you know.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: I used to talk to myself about what I'm doing and be like, Ben, like if you're really serious, you need to get up early, you need to get off your ass and do something about it.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, no one's there to do it for you.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you have a day off and relax, and everything is just where you left it.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, your website's still the way it is, there's no new pictures to edit.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I used to post, I remember one of my things was I used to post on Instagram every day.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I did that for like three years straight.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that was part of my hustle where it was like, look, if I need to post a good shot on Instagram every day, I need to have content.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I need to go out and shoot at least three, four times a week, you know.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I was out shooting all day.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm talking like getting there around 9, 10, going home, uh and like exploring London.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I know London so well now, it's so crazy.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've learned from my photography, and my photography's improved so much, and I think like that was my mentality was like I just went at it 110%.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: It became the most important thing in my mind, you know.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you gotta you gotta want it really badly.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's when it's like you turn yourself into an animal and you realize I've actually changed myself.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I used to play computer games, I stopped playing like Xbox, I stopped watching football because I felt like these things were taking up so much time, and I could be using that to make my photography better.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: I I gave them all up completely.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: I was just like, you know, nah.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I told it's so funny because I had to tell all my friends on Xbox Live that bye, look, I'm gone, guys.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, um, I've got to do my photography.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember seeing my friend at a wedding that I was shooting, who was one of my um Xbox gamers, and he was like, Well, you're you're really serious.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: Your account is like offline, like proper offline.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, bro, has to be done.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: It has to be like if you've got anything that's distracting you, reaching your goal, you need it's your dignity to cut it out of your life and get that goal moving.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it will it will change your life, literally.
• 42:20
  David McClelland: Ben, it's fair to say that you love a gadget.
• 42:22
  David McClelland: Uh, and aside from your camera and your lens, what photography and imaging gadgets are you most enjoying using at the moment?
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'll say um a funny one, which is the lens skirt, which helps shoot through glass and gets rid of all the reflections.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: That I'm loving that right now.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm loving my ND filter right now at flowing down the light and getting long exposures in the middle of the day.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm loving that.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: But um most of the time I'll just shoot with the camera, and that's it.
• 42:53
  David McClelland: Like you, wherever I travel around the world, I will be pulled towards the tallest building.
• 42:59
  David McClelland: And yes, there are lots of viewing decks on those buildings, and uh I'm I'm straight up there.
• 43:04
  David McClelland: Uh as as high as I can get, I was among the first people to go up the Burj Khalifa in Dubai in 2010 when that opened.
• 43:13
  David McClelland: I see you've you've gone one higher, and I think you've flown in a helicopter.
• 43:16
  David McClelland: Was it a helicopter you were flying above that with?
• 43:19
  David McClelland: You you got some incredible shots from taller than the than the building itself.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: Sort of helicopter, a mini helicopter, sort of like a little drowned thing.
• 43:28
  David McClelland: But you've been in helicopters as well.
• 43:29
  David McClelland: I think I've seen you doing some aerial shoots around London, yeah?
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was fun.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I do know what I actually I threw up.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: I was sick of the helicopter because no, because basically what happened was I was shooting so much, I think I got disoriented because of my lens.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't really take the camera away from my face, so I'm getting like all that kind of gyroscope kind of movement.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, Have you got a bag?
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I after taking vacation.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: It was after I took all the pictures that I wanted, but yeah, I was I was I was sick in not my best moment, but the things we do for our art.
• 44:08
  David McClelland: Then you're speaking at the photography and video show in March.
• 44:12
  David McClelland: Um, what sort of things will you be covering there?
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: So my talk's gonna be about AI, and it's about a lot of people are scared of AI and scared of how it's gonna affect their work and their job.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: But my job is to talk to give you tips on how to use AI to make your business more effective and why not to be scared of it, how to live with it and make your business you know more unique.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it's gotta be more hints and tips about using AI with your business.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: Photography or not, really, it's for everyone.
• 44:45
  David McClelland: Obviously, there's a lot of concern about jobs and jobs being displaced by AIs, but as the saying goes, you you won't be replaced by an AI, but you may be replaced by somebody who knows how to use AI.
• 44:58
  David McClelland: Yeah.
• 44:58
  David McClelland: Uh and I think that's that that's very much the reality.
• 45:01
  David McClelland: That sounds like a fascinating talk.
• 45:04
  David McClelland: Ben, it's been fantastic to speak to you.
• 45:06
  David McClelland: Uh thank you for taking time out of your day from exploring with your with your camera and your lens.
• 45:11
  David McClelland: I hope to catch you again soon.
• 45:12
  David McClelland: Lois, take care.
• 45:16
  David McClelland: Big thanks to Ben.
• 45:18
  David McClelland: Links to his work in the show notes, and put a mark in your diary to catch him talking about all things AI imaging at the photography and video show in March.
• 45:30
  David McClelland: Gavin, earlier on we spoke about what to look forward to in imaging in 2024.
• 45:35
  David McClelland: And of course, what I'm looking forward to, and I'm sure you are too, is the photography and video show from the 16th to the 19th of March at the NEC in Birmingham.
• 45:46
  David McClelland: Before that, as we're recording this next week for me, I'm off to CES, the International Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas.
• 45:55
  David McClelland: Now, that's not specifically a photography and imaging show, but many of the big names will be there.
• 46:03
  David McClelland: And well, rumour has it, Gavin, that there will be some announcements there.
• 46:08
  David McClelland: Who knows?
• 46:08
  David McClelland: Maybe some of the cameras that we're anticipating making a splash in 2024 may use CES as part of their official or unofficial uh launch platforms.
• 46:19
  David McClelland: Um not just launching, sometimes they kind of tease them, don't you?
• 46:22
  David McClelland: Well, exactly.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's kind of like, oh, we're definitely going to be doing something.
• 46:27
  David McClelland: And and it's interesting because uh I've been going to CES on and off for a good few years, and CES itself became as much about the car show.
• 46:35
  David McClelland: It was the car electronics show uh for a little while going back about six or seven years ago, and as cars became increasingly computers on wheels, and we started talking about autonomous cars and connected cars and so on, CES was seen very much as a launch platform for that, mainly because manufacturers who chose to do that were able to avoid some of the noise that would go during the traditional car shows.
• 46:59
  David McClelland: So the hunch is that perhaps uh camera manufacturers may choose to, I guess, jump on the coattails of CES and use that as a platform when maybe there won't be quite so much other imaging news around to launch teas, maybe in some meeting rooms that aren't open to showgoers, show off uh to some of the assembled press there, some of the stuff that we will be seeing later on in 2024.
• 47:26
  David McClelland: If there is something that drops, I'll do my best to get over and uh find out more about that.
• 47:31
  David McClelland: You'll come back on the podcast and tell us, yes?
• 47:33
  David McClelland: Uh I I I hope so.
• 47:34
  David McClelland: This does bring up something that w we spoke about a couple of weeks ago, Gavin, which is about how to get the best bang from your buck at one of these events.
• 47:43
  David McClelland: I visit trade shows and events probably more often than is healthy, frankly.
• 47:48
  David McClelland: In all honesty, my schedule is very often decided for me before I even arrive there from meeting to meeting to meeting.
• 47:54
  David McClelland: Um but if you are visiting events, just for example, the photography and video show in March at NEC, what kind of tips can you share to help make the most of the experience?
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I've done quite a few now as uh both a visitor and an exhibitor, which is interesting to see both sides of it.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_02: And when I've gone as a visitor, I've done a few trade shows, certainly in the early days of when I used to visit them, where I was very excited, it's gonna be a trade show, it's gonna be amazing, and then I get there and I can't remember why I went.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_02: And you kind of think, I definitely wanted to come here, and and now I'm here, I'm I'm not quite sure what to do because it is such an overwhelming experience.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_02: There's noise, there's visuals, there's things to see, things to watch, there's occasionally free gifts, and you go mad.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_02: It is wonderful, but you really, really have to get planning before you go.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_02: To get the best out of any trade show, why are you going?
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_02: Just answer that one question.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_02: Why am I going?
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_02: If you can just say one thing, then it's worth going.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's to meet a brand, it's to try a new product, it's to watch a talk.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_02: Answer that question, and you'll enjoy it a lot more.
• 49:04
  David McClelland: I think about it in terms of a shopping list now.
• 49:07
  David McClelland: I sometimes am allowed to go and do the family shopping.
• 49:10
  David McClelland: And uh there are two ways that this can uh happen.
• 49:13
  David McClelland: The first one is the one that often goes wrong, and it's where I don't make a shopping list.
• 49:16
  David McClelland: I try and remember when I'm walking through the aisles uh what I need, and often I will forget things, and often I'll pick up things that I don't need and I'll leave, get back home, and realise I didn't get anything that I particularly wanted.
• 49:29
  David McClelland: And then the other way is being a little bit more prepared and making a making a shopping list.
• 49:34
  David McClelland: There's one thing that I found many, many times before, and I'd be curious to know if this is the same for you.
• 49:40
  David McClelland: But very often I've reflected at an event that the worst place to know what's happening at an event is when you're at the event because you are so much you know, you are literally on the floor.
• 49:53
  David McClelland: You can see the backs of people, the fronts of people, maybe you can see some of the stands.
• 49:58
  David McClelland: But in terms of those big picture news stories, actually it's quite difficult to know what's happening.
• 50:03
  David McClelland: There might be something that's being launched over the the other end of the show, and it's only that night when you're on the train home or when you're in a hotel room looking through social media or whatever, do you realise, oh my gosh, so-and-so was there and they hadn't been announced, and it was a surprise thing, and I had no idea that they're there.
• 50:20
  David McClelland: So it's I find it very, very helpful, even if you're at the event, to have that outside eye.
• 50:25
  David McClelland: And whether that's keeping an eye on the hashtag on social media, which some people do, or whether it is going to a news outlet that is also reporting.
• 50:34
  David McClelland: They've got reporters on the ground at the show, uh, or sometimes the show's own social media will be uh sharing snippets of news and so on.
• 50:42
  David McClelland: I find that such a helpful way of making the most of the event because very often you can't see the wood for the trees once you're actually on the show floor.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a good point.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I've actually done that before.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_02: I've come back and thought, I don't even think I was at the same trade show.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_02: What where did this happen?
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_02: I I completely missed all of that.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_02: If you can, for something like the photography and video show that's a multi-day event, if you can stretch over two days, go check out that evening what you might have missed.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_02: Do the hashtag looks.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_02: They do a video every single day of the day's highlights of a certain I can't remember who fronts those videos, but uh he's quite good.
• 51:20
  David McClelland: He's he's quite good.
• 51:21
  David McClelland: Yeah, let's emphasize the quite always room for improvement.
• 51:25
  David McClelland: Just going back to the planning thing as well, landing on the photography and video show, of course.
• 51:29
  David McClelland: Uh the schedule is starting to come together for that.
• 51:34
  David McClelland: If you go to photographyshow.com, have a look at what's on.
• 51:38
  David McClelland: You can tap on what's on or or talks, demos, and masterclasses.
• 51:42
  David McClelland: Speaking of sessions at the show, Gavin, you're going rumour has it.
• 51:47
  David McClelland: Rumour has it.
• 51:48
  David McClelland: I don't know if we can talk about this, can we?
• 51:50
  David McClelland: That you're going to be at the show this year.
• 51:53
  David McClelland: What can you say about these scorilous rumours?
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's definitely not a rumour.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think I booked my hotel room just the day after I finished the last show.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_02: And bearing in mind it's been what, 18 months since the last show.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, I mean, I I was always going to be there for four days.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I will be definitely at the show for four days.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'll be on the GoDocks Pixapro stand where I usually am.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's almost like my second home for the show.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_02: I might be popping up on some stages as well.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'll definitely be on the photo live stage.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_02: I can definitely say that because I think that's already been released.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_02: I may be somewhere else as well.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_02: You have to wait and see.
• 52:26
  David McClelland: Have to wait and see.
• 52:27
  David McClelland: You can't miss Gavin, or rather, you can't miss the impact that Gavin has on the show floor.
• 52:34
  David McClelland: Usually, when you enter through the main entrance, there's a big carpet that goes that cuts right through the middle and takes you right towards the back.
• 52:43
  David McClelland: And there's a bit about two-thirds of the way down, I would say, where it stops being a kind of red carpet and it starts becoming a mass of people.
• 52:52
  David McClelland: And that is where Gavin is usually presenting and uh and taking images and showing off lighting and modifiers and all kinds of things in one of his sessions there.
• 53:03
  David McClelland: Your sessions are always incredibly popular, Gavin, aren't they?
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_02: And that kind of brings me back to another point as well about going to a trade show.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason they're popular is I try to include the audience in them.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_02: So even after we've done the demo and standing around for a demo, particularly when it's on a booth, is a little bit of a my feet get quite achy after a while, do I really want to sit through the rest of this or stand through the rest of this?
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_02: But if you can find a booth where they will, after the demo, let you have a go with the equipment, you'll find out whether the equipment is for you much quicker than just watching somebody else do it.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's what I love about the photography and video show is it's that interactive nature.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_02: You can come along with your camera, bring your camera to test equipment.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_02: Bring your camera, you might even get be able to get it cleaned by the camera companies.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_02: They're often there as well.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_02: Cleaning kit.
• 53:54
  David McClelland: Final tip, very, very quick one.
• 53:56
  David McClelland: Comfortable shoes.
• 53:58
  David McClelland: Sensible shoes.
• 53:59
  David McClelland: We should have started with that.
• 54:00
  David McClelland: I think we probably should have done that.
• 54:01
  David McClelland: That that was the low-hanging fruit, but uh I have I have made the mistake of not wearing sensible shoes, and it didn't go well across the four or five days of that event, I'm afraid to say.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_02: Comfy shoes, comfy clothes, and yeah, yeah, you'll you'll enjoy it a whole lot more.
• 54:16
  David McClelland: Gavin and David's top tips for events, trade shows for the photography and video show.
• 54:23
  David McClelland: Uh, if you have any that you would also like to share, maybe you are a photography video show veteran, having been coming every year since 2014, like I think Gavin and I probably are, uh, and you've got some top tips that you would like to share to people who are coming along for the first time this year, then do get in touch with us on the socials.
• 54:45
  David McClelland: That is almost all that we have time for this month.
• 54:49
  David McClelland: Thank you very much indeed for joining us to kick off 2024.
• 54:53
  David McClelland: I think it's fair to say there's lots and lots to look forward to, and we will be across all of it right here on the podcast and at the in-person event too.
• 55:04
  David McClelland: We may have mentioned it already.
• 55:05
  David McClelland: Uh, you'll have an opportunity to get hands-on with kit, speak to the experts, hear from the professionals, NEC Birmingham, England, Saturday the 16th to Tuesday the 19th of March.
• 55:17
  David McClelland: New speakers are being announced every week.
• 55:20
  David McClelland: Now confirmed are Elise Swopes, Getty Raw photographer Chris Jackson, Joe Cornish, Scarlet Page, who's photographed every rock legend imaginable, incredible animal photographer Tim Flack, and many, many more.
• 55:33
  David McClelland: If you want to be there, visit photography show.com.
• 55:36
  David McClelland: In the meantime, if you enjoyed our little podcast, then please do all of the things that podcasts normally ask you to do.
• 55:42
  David McClelland: So hit subscribe, tell your friends, share with your local camera club, and hey, even leave us a review.
• 55:48
  David McClelland: There are some show deals and competitions on the socials right now, too.
• 55:53
  David McClelland: We're on Insta at the Photography Show.
• 55:56
  David McClelland: Searches up on Facebook too.
• 56:01
  David McClelland: Earlier on, I mentioned a competition to win a Canon EOS R6 Mark II bundle worth in excess of£3,000.
• 56:08
  David McClelland: Well, this is all part of the photography and video show's annual prize draw.
• 56:13
  David McClelland: To enter, head on over to photography show.com forward slash Canon-competition.
• 56:19
  David McClelland: That's Canon Competition, where you'll find full details and the all-important terms and conditions.
• 56:26
  David McClelland: Now the draw officially goes live on Monday, the 15th of January, 2024.
• 56:32
  David McClelland: That's when everyone else will find out about it.
• 56:34
  David McClelland: But lucky listeners to this podcast get first dibs.
• 56:38
  David McClelland: So head on over and good luck.
• 56:44
  David McClelland: Speaking of competitions, though, entries for the inaugural London Camera Exchange Photographer of the Year Award 2024 are now open.
• 56:54
  David McClelland: It's free to enter, and there's a prize fund worth more than£14,000.
• 56:59
  David McClelland: The category winners and overall winners will be announced at the photography and video show in March.
• 57:05
  David McClelland: Visit poty.lcroup.co.uk for details on how to enter.
• 57:11
  David McClelland: That's Photographer of the Year, or the initials of poty.lce, London CameraExchange, group.co.uk, for details on how to enter.
• 57:25
  David McClelland: Gavin, thank you so much for joining us.
• 57:28
  David McClelland: Where can people best tune in to your words of wisdom online?
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, David, for having me.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's actually really nice to be on a podcast I also listen to regularly as well.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_02: So this has been a real privilege for me.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you for having me in.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_02: And if anybody really does want to find out more about me, they can head over to Instagram.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's a good place to go.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm at the GavinHoey.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_02: I apologise for the name, I didn't choose it, it was somebody else.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_02: The Gavin Howie is my Instagram handle, and if you're on YouTube, the best thing to do is just type in my name or the word photography, and the chances are I'll probably pop up on your screen.
• 58:04
  David McClelland: Good stuff.
• 58:05
  David McClelland: Bless you for listening to the show, Gavin.
• 58:08
  David McClelland: We appreciate your kind words.
• 58:10
  David McClelland: We'll make sure that there are links to your YouTube channel, to your Instagram in our show notes as well.
• 58:15
  David McClelland: If you're not a fan of searching things up, you can just click on the link in your podcast player of choice.
• 58:20
  David McClelland: Thank you all for listening to us this month.
• 58:23
  David McClelland: We'll be back on the first Thursday next month.
• 58:26
  David McClelland: But for now, from Gavin and Ben and I, thank you very much.